Semi-rant: the ubiquitous medical-model mindset!

[Taedareth]

Here's a conversation I had with a friend who is a 20 year old male volunteer EMT. He was telling me that he's "caught" two babies on 911 runs. (I'm Neuromancer and he is Liberty). I can tell that the only ideas he's ever been exposed to about birth are the medical mindset that birth is inherently dangerous and women have no idea what to do, hence why they need medical experts (like a 20 year old boy!) to do it for them. :irked: It's not his fault; all his training comes from Hollywood and the medical establishment. It just makes me sad for our culture that we're losing such a beautiful rite of passage. :(

[20:39] Liberty1776: I was playing catchman
[20:39] Neuromancer: when/where/how
[20:40] Liberty1776: One on scene and one in the ambulance
[20:41] Neuromancer: like you went to a woman's home because she called 911?
[20:41] Liberty1776: yes
[20:41] Neuromancer: well congratulations
[20:41] Neuromancer: how did it feel?
[20:42] Liberty1776: Slimy
[20:42] Neuromancer: rofl
[20:42] Neuromancer: i mean... emotionally
[20:44] Liberty1776: It felt good
[20:44] Neuromancer: so why didn't the moms catch their babies themselves or have their husbands do it?
[20:44] Liberty1776: Uhh. . .thats not in any procedure
[20:44] Neuromancer: WHAT??
[20:44] Liberty1776: I have to check for normal birth and stuff
[20:45] Neuromancer: well it's apparent to me that if the moms had their babies so quickly after you arrived, everything was fine. I think it's sad that they decided to get emergency personnel involved instead of having a peaceful intimate birth at home with their families. That's what I would have done.
[20:46] Liberty1776: heh, we dont like delivering en route or at scene
[20:47] Neuromancer: yeah i'm sure that's not EMT preference. Hence why it would have been better if they just had a beautiful birth at home, imo
[20:47] Liberty1776: Im assuming they didnt know what to do
[20:48] Neuromancer: "push the baby out, then feed it"
[20:48] Liberty1776: The proper way to do that is?
[20:48] Neuromancer: breastfeeding
[20:48] Liberty1776: No
[20:48] Liberty1776: the brithing process
[20:49] Neuromancer: it's done naturally. An OB once said that if 10 women went into the jungle alone to deliver their baby, 9 of them would do perfectly fine
[20:49] Liberty1776: What if it was a breach, or prolapsed?
[20:49] Neuromancer: you push in any position that is comfortable for you. Women naturally know what is comfortable
[20:49] Neuromancer: breech would have been noticed earlier on by her practitioner
[20:50] Neuromancer: not at hospitals though - OBs have no training in vagial breech presentation so they freak and start chopping
[20:51] Neuromancer: but midwives are experts in normal births like breech presentation, so many women still have healthy breech home births in this country
[20:53] Liberty1776: *shrugs* Lots of things can happen in any situation
[20:53] Neuromancer: true. which is why i'm having my midwife attend ours

[MamaTaraX]

In his defense, EMTs are given really shoddy training in regards to birth. Poll a few of them,you'll see. It's not something they are "trained" to do and what they are trained is that if they are the ones doing it,it's obviously an emergency. They don't lets moms or family catch because its a liability to them and he's right, it's not their procedure. Think about it though, if you go to to a doctor or even a midwife, they're probably catching the baby too so it's not so much different. (*note: I attended a great birth earlier this year where the OB stepped back and let mom catch the baby,and that wasn't even planned, so even OBs will let babies catch sometimes) Breech would definately be considered an emergecny by an EMT because if you think OBs don't do it, EMTs really don't do it. They'd be more likely to step back and letnature do it's thing, however, they'd be saddled with responsibilites should something go wrong. Instead of being upset at crappily trained EMTs,I'dbe more upset that we teach our women that if they are inlabor and birth seems iminent, they have to call an ambulance even though they didn't have one two minutes eariler.

Namaste, Tara
mama to Doodle (7), Butterfly (2), and Rythm (due at home 1/06)

[Taedareth]

Instead of being upset at crappily trained EMTs, I'd be more upset that we teach our women that if they are inlabor and birth seems iminent, they have to call an ambulance even though they didn't have one two minutes eariler.

That was precisely the root of my sadness/annoyance in the first place. I agree totally!

[Mrs Dimples]

:yeah:

I would not choose UC on my own, I am HBing with a MW, but if I did end up in that situation you better believe I would not touch 911 with a ten-foot pole. Give birth perfectly well and quickly in my home, surrounded by my family, and THEN have the baby whisked off so they could cluck and tsk AFTER the fact? No thanks! :eyesroll

[ozzyemm]

I took an EMT course several years ago. As part of the class, we were supposed to do a 15 minute lecture on one of the chapters in the book. I chose childbirth. I gave this (really good :D) presentation, with video, a doll in a uterus, etc. After I finished the professor stood up and said, " You probably won't have to catch a baby very often." That was IT for the entire childbirth chapter. We didn't discuss it further that night, or at all. It wasn't even on the test :( So much for all the prepe I did ;).

So, ITA with Tara. EMTs are NOT specifically trained in childbirth procedures, and I wouldn't trust an EMT to deliver my baby.

[Taedareth]

Give birth perfectly well and quickly in my home, surrounded by my family, and THEN have the baby whisked off so they could cluck and tsk AFTER the fact? No thanks! :eyesroll

HAHA you'll love this story about my grandmother's birth with my dad in 1957! He was a couple weeks overdue so her doctor suggested some castor oil to encourage the onset of labor. She went home that night and had some castor oil, then ate dinner with the family. After dinner her husband went downtown for 20 minutes to pick up his paycheck. Her labor started shortly after he left, and he got back home just in time to catch the baby!

Now that would be a beautiful story if it ended there...

But my great-grandma was living with them at the time and she completely freaked when her daughter went into labor and my grandpa had taken the car. So she dialed 911. Shortly after the baby was born (and everything was FINE) the firefighters came rushing onto the scene and drove mom, dad, and baby at a furious pace to the hospital. Once there, they spent several hours standing around in waiting rooms and finally got checked out by a doctor who sent them home because everyone was in perfect health. :eyesroll But my grandma had a tendency toward quick births - she said her first child was nearly born down the outhouse because she didn't realize she was in labor until the pushing stage :LOL

[Aka mommy]

I shouldnt be amazed at that convo as i was trained as a first responder years ago and almost chose to become an EMT. Great thing about our homebirth is we will have midwives present but they have told me, either myself or dh will be 'catching' jellybean! This is what i most look forward to, being the one to bring our dd into this world at her own pace!

[paquerette]

In his defense, EMTs are given really shoddy training in regards to birth. Poll a few of them,you'll see.
I was an EMT from '96 until about 2000, so I may have forgotten a lot. We were trained to basically transport unless there was crowning, in which case we were to pull over and catch. Strip the mom's torso and lay baby immediately on her skin, ensure baby begins breathing, cover them both with a blanket, encourage her to latch baby on, continue transport. Do not mess with cord. They did cover prolapse, resuscitation, clamping and cutting in case of tight cord only. I don't think we discussed position or support for the mother at all.