Please remind me how young 2 is.

[Greensleeves]

I need a swift kick in the pants. Please help me remember how really little and new to this planet a 2.5 year old is.

[Hazelnut]

Being pregnant and having a toddler is just HARD sometimes. Period. Plus, I think sometimes toddlers act up more when they know something unusual is going down with the whole pregnancy thing.

Two is young. I forget too sometimes. I also get really tired sometimes of having to come up with some creative, positive way to "get" him to listen. It takes so much effort!

I think you'll bond. You probably don't have the time to right now, like you did with your first. And I think it's oik to feel like you "don't care" sometimes. Just keep it to yourself, and don't beat yourself up about it. It's an emotionally stressful time. It often was for me too.

Good Luck.

[eorr]

I am finding that if I can find the right person to vent to, it does wonders for me! I'm not in your situation, but I am going through a slight depression right now based on the level of sickness I'm experiencing with this pregnancy. I thought it would be great and I'd have the best time bonding, but it's just not working out that way. I feel so much better when I can get the poison out in a safe place, and then face my actual feelings of inadequacy and approach the situation in a much more positive way. :innocent
Hugs, mama! You are giving yourself great advice - just imagine that someone else was giving it to you! Sometimes it helps to think that there's another person in the room watching your interaction - it can give you the motivation to treat your dd the way you intend to.
Good luck, and I hope I don't offend, since I'm really not in your shoes. Sending good vibes your way!

[UUMom]

yep. two yr olds are walking babies. My middle children are 16 mos apart in age, and what got me through was to think of them as twins. This might not work for everyone, but it changed my life when i decided to do this. I put it in my head that my toddler could no more not be a baby than the baby.

To this day, now 13 and almost 12, they are best buddies.

I tried to get a lot of help, too. I had a 4 yr old at the time of the 3rd baby's birth, so I had the neighborhood girl come in and do the playdough thing while I sat and nursed the baby, or took a nap.

[Raynbow]

I have to say... I forget too sometimes. T is another tall, well spoken, very intelligent toddler... and it is sooo easy to forget that he is just 2y8m, barely a blip on the life experience screen.
He is also very spirited... and I get frustrated when he has one of his moments (like tonight when he threw a fit because his wagon seat had some mud (where his feet rest). It was raining, dark and we had half a mile to walk home - there was no way I could push the wagon, hold an umbrella over my head and hold his hand ( and I had no hood or hat). And there he was, screaming and tantruming because he refused to get into the wagon.. I was furious with him and part of me really wanted to smack him one. I didn't, but the urge was there and once it passed, I felt so bad for feeling that... I think it is a common thing that happens to aprent of toddlers... especially under a lot of stress. :)
Don't beat yourself up over it.. just try to remind yourself that you really don't want to do it. :)

[Annikate]

I have those days too when I somehow *expect* more out of my almost 2-yr. old (birthday's on the 29th!) than I know is possible because she is sooo verbal. My babies are 17 mos. apart and I, too, sometimes have to think along the lines of having twins so that I remember that my now 2-yr. old is still a baby too! I also agree that your 2.5 yr. old probably senses something is changing and is perhaps pushing some extra buttons right now.

Be kind to yourself. BTW, I also felt like I hadn't bonded with my dd2 while I was pregnant. I mean, who has time chasing another small being around? But we did bond despite feeling like we wouldn't - and you will too. It's funny, sometimes I look at my baby dd (will be 6mos. on the 10th) and ask her where she came from and how did she get here so fast? That's how disconnected I felt to her while I was pregnant.

Boy, can my 2-yr. olds be demanding though! Geez, I spend most of my days (and nights) making her happy. Thankfully, my younger dd is sooo easygoing. GUess she'd have to be with an older sister like hers!

Have a wonderful birth!

[Greensleeves]

Thank you all for your kindness and perspective. They have helped me. :hug Especially the reassurance about not having bonded with the baby-to-be, and confirming my feelings about how little 2 is still. I think I have also let others' expectations for her stress me out. It seems like sometimes people expect 4 year old behavior out of her, and all I want to do is hold her and protect her and baby her. I guess I also feel conflicted about balancing her needs with the new baby's. She is still very much about "I want mommy to do it!" ie she won't let DH get her a cup of milk, unbuckle the carseat etc. A huge meltdown will ensue when Dh does it anyway.

eorr, you are right, this is helping just to get some of this out of my head and get someone else's thoughts! I feel like I can't talk to anyone about a lot of things IRL.

[TeaBag]

:nod

It is hard. I had a 4yr old and a 14 month old when the 3rd baby was born. I felt like I hadn't bonded with her at all. And dh was gone most of the pregnancy, so I really struggled. I still struggle today. I have a 2yr old, a 3yr old and a 6 yr old and again, dh is deployed. All I can do is offer you some :hugs I keep telling myself, on the really, really bad days, that the way we've chosen to parent will have an effect on the world long after these trying toddler days are past. The lessons I teach (or dont' teach) now, these are the things that they will carry with them and will effect how they parents their children, and therefore how their children parent, etc.....I'm breaking the cycle of abuse that dh and I both dealt with growing up.....They are only two for a year, then they present a whole new set of challenges at 3 and then again at 6, it's all new stuff again! :LOL I figure if I get through the 2's and 3's, I can handle anything.....until my kids want to date! :yikes: You can do it. Relax. Forgive yourself when you screw up. Talk to your partner. Get a break or a nap when you can. And again, relax. You will bond with new baby. :hug

[kalisis]

Awww...I'm not in your shoes and haven't been there yet, but I want to lend my support to you. I'm barely hanging in there with my spirited 13 month old...the other day I actually said, "You know, if we spanked, this would be a prime situation to do it in" (and part of me wished we did so I could get rid of my anger and frustration - but then that thought passed and I felt guilty for even thinking it.).

Don't let others' expectations get you down. I just spent several days with extended family (several of whom recommended the Pearls' book, the train up a child one) and I had a meltdown at the end because everyone just expected so much out of him. He's going to have tantrums and talk back to me, even at 13 months, because he is learning about himself and his opinions. Thank goodness he is, KWIM? But all their judgement (silent as it may have been) really got me down and made me not as good of a mommy as I should have been to him.

Argh, anyway, please don't be too hard on yourself. This is one of the hardest jobs there is and I think we add a lot of pressure to ourselves that we don't need to. You're doing a good job, just be realizing that he is only 2.5 and he is still a little baby, that's an important thing to keep in mind. It seems so big to me as the mother of a 13 month old, but I know when he gets there, I'll still be able to see that tiny newborn in him too.

Hang in there. :HUGS

[Heffernhyphen]

I read somewhere that our generation (I assume you and I are close in age) was raised with swatting and spanking so we are hard wired to instinctively resort to that. We have to consciously fight the instinct and come up with better ways. That's hard on a good, well-rested day sometimes. I can't imagine dredging up the energy in your state. As I recall, when I was pregnant I barely had the energy to think, let alone think up creative, positive parenting answers.

Now go drink some tea with your fairy girl.

Good luck.

[Hazelnut]

I agree that SO many people seem to expect so much out of their young toddlers, and some people do that with mine as well. I feel like that's not only unfair to my son, but it only sets me up for frustration.
Oh and when I said, "keep it to yourself," I meant just don't say too much that you will regret to your daughter. But vent elsewhere, by all means.
I really like that part about how good parenting has lasting effects. That is very motivating when days are bad.
My second pregnancy often seemed to be missing that "special" component b/c I was busy and stressed slightly. But once he came that changed.

[Bleu]

I read somewhere that our generation (I assume you and I are close in age) was raised with swatting and spanking so we are hard wired to instinctively resort to that. We have to consciously fight the instinct and come up with better ways. ITA. A friend who's also GD/AP & I were just discussing that. I read "trust your instincts" in AP books all the time, and while that may work great with parents who were themselves raised gently, for the rest of us, "instinct" is not something to trust. Who wants to parent instinctively if our instinct is to hit when we don't like what our toddlers are doing!?!? We need to question, read, model our behavior after good parents, and make really conscious choices about how we interact with our children. Especially our 2.5 year-olds! :LOL

[Camellia]

I agree with what all PP's had to offer. I just wanted to add that its important to remember to be gentle with yourself as well. By not beating yourself up over the way you parented yesterday or 5 minutes ago it will be easier to parent gently in the "now".

:hug's mama. Its hard parenting a toddler while pregnant. My dd is 17 months and I'm 27weeks pregnant. Granted, my toddler isn't in the no phase and is a generally easy going kiddo. If she could yell no at me I'm sure my life would be much harder right now. Hang in there. You are doing great. :heartbeat

[babybugmama]

I think finding some time to meditate, to center yourself and find some peace may help you take that big deep breath instead of threatening/or actually swatting. I taught dd how to take a big deep breath at about 2 1/2. So she could copy me. There's just something kind of cute and funny about a 2 1/2 year old saying, mommy I need a deep breath. She sees me do it and sometimes will ask if I'm frustrated. It can lead to some interesting conversations.

The other thing I do is try to get into her head. In some ways the older she gets the harder this is. But I try to think, what does she really want here. Is it my attention, control, power, etc. Then I try to redirect myself to meet those needs, or to explain why I can't. "Sweetie I know you want me to read a story to you, but I'm in the middle of making dinner. If you go read a story by yourself, by the time you are done I'll be ready for a break and can read to you." Or I see if she wants to help me. I guess I try to look at what is motivating her behavior and that helps me to keep it calm. It helps when I can say she is not trying to manipulate me, she just really likes vitamins and is experimenting with ways to try and get them (i.e. asks non-stop all day long ;) ).

Good luck and as pp said, take care of yourself. Find some time to find peace.

[nznats]

My daughter is 18 months but has the intelligence, behaviours and mentality of someone older, she usually quite happily plays by herself but other times she is clingy whinny and does nothing that she is asked too (even though I know she is perfectly capable and has done it before) I am not pregnant but can only imagine how tiring and stressful it would be. I have to try very hard with my redirection techniques at times because I am so tired and run down that I feel like reacting to unwanted, unacceptable behaviours more than anything else

[Greensleeves]

Thanks so much, for the additional support. I told DH I really needed a break, and both yesterday and this morning he took dd out for some special time together. It was really nice to get a break, read your advice, and get some perspective. I know this problem I'm having actually has little to do with my dd, who is acting completely age appropriate and really actually does well for the situations we have been going through lately. The main problem is serious depression. I tried to take an antidepressant for 2 days and it was so awful, I couldn't imagine what is was doing to the baby, so I quit. Now I am looking at other alternatives (a couple of natural remedy threads on PPD board and another website with info on amino acids/diet.)

So I guess my biggest challenge is/will be recognizing that it is NOT a 2 year old problem, it is a "how mommy is dealing with the 2 year old" problem.

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen
I read somewhere that our generation (I assume you and I are close in age) was raised with swatting and spanking so we are hard wired to instinctively resort to that. We have to consciously fight the instinct and come up with better ways. Heffernhyphen, you hit the nail on the head. When I am not worn out (which now is, um, never!) I am able to be patient and over ride those impulses. It is such a struggle (as I'm sure for many) to not deal with her the same way I was dealt with. Those instincts to yell and even swat are so powerful.......maybe I should wear a rubber band around my wrist as a reminder to stop and think. (Of course dd will immediately want my rubber band even if I give her her own. :LOL )

APmom98, ITA that the cycle needs to stop here.......not only for her children but also in how she will interact with others. I don't want her to feel, as I did, that everyone has power over her and she has to take whatever treatment she gets from everyone. I love her feistiness and want to encourage it. (She is actually a really polite little kid with others, but will stand up for herself too. :love )

Lindsaylou, thanks, I am going to try and remember not to beat myself up. Guilt is such a powerful negative force.

Originally posted by Babybugmama
It helps when I can say she is not trying to manipulate me, she just really likes vitamins and is experimenting with ways to try and get them (i.e. asks non-stop all day long ).

I was LOL at this. DD also asks for her "vitadins" constantly. I have worked on the "take a deep breath" thing with her too. Maybe if I work on this more she and I can remind each other more to take deep breaths when things get trying. I am definitely going to work more on finding my center......I have been trying to do the Hypnobabies tapes when I can, still haven't made it all the way through the home study course though.

Thanks, you guys have helped me more than you know. :throb

[babybugmama]

You mentioned depression. Here are the X most important factors to do to deal with depression, in my humble opinion.

1. exercise - some how, some way ~20 min a day. It clears the toxins from the body, including those neurotransmitters that cause depression.
2. sleep - when you don't get enough sleep your body cannot effectively cleanse itself, again leading to those nasty overabundant neurotransmitters (there's a balance, either not enough or too much)
3. diet - eating lots of crappy food (I'm not saying you are, just listing this for info), especially processed stuff. Your body has to work harder to process and get it out...depleting it of the resources needed to heal and be healthy.
4. thought style - if you find yourself focusing on the negative, try to reframe. Try to find the silver lining so to speak. For example. "man what a crappy day it is outside, now we're going to have to be stuck inside all day." alternative: "what a great day to stay indoors and bake cookies, drink hot chocolate and snuggle up with books."

Anyway, hope that gives a little extra help.

Bottom line, take care of you and good for your dh for letting you have a breather.

[Greensleeves]

Wanted to add that, Babybugmama, I think that's good advice about seeing what is motivating her. Sometimes I assume that her motivation is to control me. Actually, is that what they are trying to do? I think one of my biggest GD roadblocks is figuring out how much I am comfortable letting her control. For example, she will "let" me sing a song only so long as it takes her to memorize it. Thereafter, most of the time if I try to sing it, she will say, "No mommy, you don't sing that song!" and will have a meltdown if I continue. It seems silly, (this is just a really mild example of course) but I wonder if it's healthy for her to exert control over things like that. I want to teach her healthy boundaries.

[Greensleeves]

babybugmama,
Thanks for the additional depression advice. All of those things are out of balance for me right now....definitely working on it.

[babybugmama]

You know even working on one will make a difference. Pick what's easiest for you and work on that.

I think kids do *manipulate* their environment. However, I don't see it as a negative thing. We all manipulate our environments. We want what we want after all. I doubt the song thing is about manipulation though. I think she's using you as a tool to learn the song and then just wants to be independent and show that she can do it. That's a big aspect of this stage, learning and showing independence. That's cool that she is figuring out how to lean on you to get to where she needs, a wonderful balance of dependence and independence. You've got a smart little girl there :D

[eorr]

I just wanted to say that I really admire you, Greensleeves, and the work that you're doing here. It takes a strong and courageous person to talk about their perceived shortcomings and to honestly listen to and consider the advice of others. Even if you've asked for that advice, it doesn't always come naturally to respond so openly to it as you have. Your approach seems to me to be the ultimate success story and leads me to believe that you will be successful in this endeavor. Just think of what a great example you are to your dd AND your dh!! Brava! :love

[Apryl Srissa]

:Hug

It does get better. My middle son was 20 months earlier this summer when my now two month, Hunter, old was born. I didn't enjoy Hunter's pregnancy nearly as much, felt very disconnected from the whole thing. I was just plain tired and achy, and felt worse for the guilt. But though the birth and first weeks were exhuasting, things improved really quickly. Before you know it things will settle down and feel normal again. By then time the new baby arrives, your toddler will also have moved on to other things. Try to find time to relax where ever you can squeeze it in, ignore the laundry, and just snuggle, finger paint, and what ever play full silly stuff you can. Those giggles go a long way to refreshing me, so try whatever makes your little sprite giggle. Before you know it, you'll be laughing along too.

I've had a lot of problems with depression, and like you just don't feel safe on meds for it when baby will share it. I second the earlier recommendations, and add fresh air, as much as weather will allow. It helps wonders.

Hope you get rested and relaxed and feeling better soon

[Danielsmom]

Greensleeves,
I'm not sending you a dagger, just a hug. I don't know where you live :)but you deserve a hug. So here's a cyberhug.
You sound like you need a break! Are you taking any time for yourself these days? Even something as simple as buying a yoga video ($10-20) and doing that 2x a week in the evening might help. Even if there is no time or funds for getting out of the house for yourself, see if there are simple things you can do for yourself once a day--a bath, lighting a scented candle, rubbing your feet with nice aromatherapy lotion.

It is so tough to be pregnant with a toddler. I'm pregnant too (20 weeks) and I felt that ds and I had a tough summer with my morning sickness and his tantrums. The thing is, I never regretted when I was overly kind to my son (otherwise labeled as being too permissive:)) but I do regret the times I yelled at him and spoke too sternly.

Could you count to 10 before replying to dd (I try to do this when my son is having a tantrum or whining).

A book I read that really helped manage my irritability is When Anger Hurts Your Kids. A very practical, helpful book that discusses the developmental stages of children. Basically the premise is that kids have behaviors at every stage that can be deemed "unreasonable" "Bratty" "driving me crazy." The key is not to label the behavior as such but to be more observant and less judgmental. Such a helpful book.

Anyway, try to give yourself a break.

I just read the rest of the posts and wanted to suggest waiting until after the baby's born to take antidepressants? I thought about going on them myself during the pregnancy (depression is something I've dealt with in the past) but felt so horrible that I decided to stay med-free for the pregnancy. But it may be something worth revisiting (for me) once the baby's born.

I've heard that resuce remedy, chamomile tea, and 66 supplements can help but I've never done these things. Also the fatty acids (but I don't know if these are okay to take during pregnancy).

I do second the recommendation on exercise. I just took a 20 minute walk and felt so great afterwards. Exercise doesn't have to be a huge workout at a gym--a short walk can help. Or putting on some dance music and dancing around for 20 minutes with your daughter. Also, writing in a journal may help you too (works wonders for me;)

Your comments about your daughter telling you not to sing made me smile. My son does this and I have to remind myself that he is not "bossy" or "rude" but just two. Again, it's all about reframing our thoughts.

Try not to be so hard on yourself.

[Ruthla]

:Hug

I think you need a little mama-pampering time.