My heart is broken

[Wugmama]

Last night I was so upset I just sat there and sobbed.

Every Tuesday night is stressful for me because my dh is in class, I leave work, take care of pets, pick up my 3.5 yrs old dd from my mom's, get us dinner, get her to skating lessons from 5:45-6:15, then church youth club from 6:30-8pm. She usually goes to bed at 8pm, but Tues we don't even get home until 8:15 and it takes time to wind down and get ready for bed.

Yesterday I asked dd to use the potty before we left my moms. I go in to check on her after about 7 or 8 minutes and she hasn't even tried to go - is playing in the bathroom, a new favorite past time of hers. I don't get upset, just ask her if she has to go, she says no, so we are off. I actually manage to get her dressed and on the ice on time. It isn't easy to get her skates on and tightened, especially since I am 6 months pg and already have gained 32 lbs - but I did it. She comes off the ice after 20 minutes because she has to go potty. We just go to church after that, both have a good time, and arrive home in a good mood. Usually the issues are her getting into her carseat at various stages in the evening, but all went well and I was feeling pretty good about it.

I got her a bedtime snack, then she went to the bathroom. After I helped her wipe, she wanted to wash her hands herself then come out - the usual. She just kept playing in there and putting me off when I reminded her to wash her hands and come out so we could get ready for bed. I could feel myself getting upset so did something I rarely do - I just turned on the TV and watched the last 20 minutes of a show - she played in the bathroom the whole time! By now it is 9pm. I try to get her to wash her hands, try to make a game of it, she starts screaming at me that she wants to be alone and for me to get out. I pick her up and try to wash her hands - it isn't happening. I know she is overly tired - not her fault she is up too late (normally she loves going to bed, not an issue). I carry her upstairs kicking and screaming and fighting (an extremely rare event) all the while calmly saying we need to go to bed. I put her in my bed - just want to lay down with her and go to sleep with her clothes on - I can put pjs on after she's asleep. I dim my lights. She continues to cry and scream and kick, saying she wants to wash her hands, but she won't do it in my bathroom. She runs to the door and I run there too and hold it shut while she pulls on it, calmly saying we need to go to bed. I put her back in bed, same thing happens, she bolts for the door. She says she will go downstairs and wash her hands and come right back up, so I let her out - don't know what else to do, can't see how this situation is going to resolve - she is past the point of no return. I just sit there and hope my husband will be home soon. Surprisingly she comes right back upstairs after washing her hands and says to me, "I thought you were still upset". She is tearful, her little chin is down. I tell her I'm not upset it is just that we really need to go to bed. I carry her back to my bed, she says something about a cage. When I ask her she says I made my room like a cage for her (me holding the door I guess). I give her a hug and tell her I'm sorry, didn't mean for her to be in a cage, I won't do it again. I leave the room to grab her pjs and when I come back she says in her little tearful voice, "tomorrow please remember not to put me in a cage if I don't wash my hands".
:bawl :bawl :bawl :bawl :bawl :bawl

I just start sobbing and could not stop. Why am I having another baby? I obviously can't take care of this one.

The irony is I thought I was doing such a good job of staying calm - doing the best considering the bad situation. And that was HER perception of what happened. I just wanted to keep her in our bedroom with me - I didn't have the physical energy to carry her back upstairs. Letting her take her own time originally wasn't working - she would have played all night in the bathroom I think. I didn't scream, wasn't mean (I thought), didn't threaten.

I have a growing list of "what not to do". I just don't know WHAT to do!

There was a GD mtg in my town on Saturday that I missed - wish I would have gone.

:(

[TeaBag]

:hug

We *all* have days like that. You did the best you could at that particular moment in time.

:hug again.

[mammastar2]

My dd is 4 and in the last 6 months or so has begun occasional flip-outs like that - totally irrational, kicking, yelling - she actually strips and starts shouting. They seem to be letting up now, but at first I had no idea what to do, and felt a lot like you do right now. I ended up finding that restraining her or arguing with her just ended up working her up and prolonging the whole miserable thing.

The best result came when one night she was totally enraged, stripped, yelling, and refusing to go to bed - like your daughter, she was up too late. We ended up telling her calmly that we would leave the light on in her room for her and she could do what she liked but that we were tired and going to bed, and that she could call us when she was ready to put on her pajamas. We got into bed ourselves and turned out the light, and she yelled randomly for another 10 minutes, tops, then got quiet. Dh went and asked if she needed a hand with her pjs and she said yes, and that was it. Actually, that may have been the last tantrum (at least for now) like it.

It sounds like it's a very tightly packed evening for you on Tuesdays - is there anyway to streamline it? I don't think my daughter could handle so many activities in such a short space. Would you consider putting church or skating on ice? If not, I'd try giving frequent reminders about timelines and what needs doing when ("you won't want to miss any of your lesson, so it's important to go to the bathroom before we leave," etc)

[annab]

I know what you mean to some degree. On the nights that my DH has tae kwon do, I dread it.

Those are the nights that we have movie night. Everything is pretty low key. He could not handle that kind of schedule.

I think you did the right thing. You tried to get her to bed, you realized that the hand washing was important and you let her do it. When you recognize a mistake and correct it, it sets a good example that you are understanding flexible. It is so easy to focus on what you did wrong--as long as you don't do it again, you learned! Celebrate that instead of beating yourself up. :hug

[Wugmama]

I appreciate the support and suggestions more than you know, thanks all.

Luckily the skating is only a 12 week program. After that if she still wants to skate I think they also have lessons Saturday morning. In fact, maybe I could even switch her to Saturday now, that would help a lot.

Not sure what to do about church. It is a really good opportunity for her and she loves it. It is crazy to have it run so late for such little kids though. Also it is 90 minutes long. I doubt they'd bump it up earlier or shorten it just for us, but I could mention to the leaders that it is at a difficult time. I saw another little boy melt down at the end a couple of weeks ago - also tired I would assume. Otherwise I could maybe tell them I need to pull her out at 7:45 - the 15 minutes might help.

My mom and I came up with this plan - I am going to stock a snack in my room ahead of time for Tues night, and also have dd pick out books Monday night - some to read Monday night, and some to read on Tues. Then in the car on the way home Tues we can talk about going right upstairs to have our snack and read the books. It seems if she can just make it upstairs smoothly everything runs ok.

Again, I appreciate the input so much. Someone mentioned recognizing what was done wrong and not doing it again. What I see in this case as being wrong was that I held the door. I didn't think that in and of itself was wrong (at the time) - the room wasn't dark or anything, and I was in there with her. But to her it was apparently traumatic, so I wouldn't do that again. Is that how others see this?

If I hadn't held the door though and she had bolted back downstairs and refused to come up I would have waited for her to agree to come back up, or waited for my husband, who would have carried her. I just couldn't do that again. At the time, I didn't believe she would ever decide to come up on her own - usually the later it gets the more bezerk she gets - unable to process clearly at all, poor little thing.

[Wugmama]

Does anyone else have any suggestions for me as to what I might have done differently, or could try next time?

Thanks!
Tracy

[Mizelenius]

Once she was overtired, what more could you have done? I think you handled it fine. Once DD gets crazy due to being tired, I remind myself to get her to bed earlier next time, end of story. Can't turn back the clock!

As far as the cage thing, it is SO HARD to predict things like that. You cannot beat yourself up for that, mama-- not for an instant. Besides, the "rules" change so often (esp. with a 3.5 y.o.-- I have one myself) that it's hard to keep up.

[LoveBeads]

You are being WAY too hard on yourself! Your DD was overtired and so were you. She just gets the luxury of someone putting on her pjs! :LOL

I won't give you any advice because I think you did a wonderful job.

About a month ago, DD became so overtired (DH's fault naturally!) that she just couldn't stop sobbing in bed. I had to just cuddle with her and whisper in her ear while she cried and cried. Even if she had been able to say anything through her sobs, I wouldn't have taken it terribly seriously because I know she was completely overwrought.

The only thing I might suggest is bringing her pjs to her skating lesson? Maybe she'd like to put them on at the rink and then there is one less thing to do at home.

hugs.

[gaialice]

I think you did great. You should not think too much of this cage thing. To console you, once my dd told me that when I yelled at her :crap :tsk she thought that I was a witch and her dad a bad magician and we had stolen her from her true good parents. Oh well, at least I deserved that comment! Anyway, kids at that age have a huge imagination and she does not give "putting in a cage" the same meaning you and I do.... same goes for the bad magician.... anyway I was pretty heart-broken when she said that. But luckily I was not pregnant else I would have cried for hours. The only suggestion I have is: when she first was in the bathroom for 20 minutes perhaps you could have said something like how about using a wipe to wash your hands? Just to find a win win for the two.

[hipumpkins]

I don't think you did anything wrong. You didn't kow she would react that way and you told her you wouldn't do it again. I think your fine and I am sure she is just fine, too.
One night my DD was over tired and fighting sleep. It was hot and her hair got caught in my arm bend and she screamed, "DON"T PULL MY HAIR"
We had company , too and I'm sure they were rolling their eyes thinking I must be trying to yank her hair to get her to sleep.

[UUMom]

opportunities for activities will always be there--esp when they get older.

Tiny children *do not* need schedules like that, and they do not benefit from them. Nor do their tired pregnant mothers.

Playing in warm running water and snuggling up in bed with mommy and some books is pretty much where it is at for little children in the evenings.

I would completley rethink your expectations for yourself and your child at this point in time.

There will be too many nights on the future for teen and preteen activities that will really matter to your child. What you need now is time to chill, rest and be together. Nothing else is more important.

Please understand I post this in a spirit love, not judgement.

[callmemama]

Mama, you sound like you handled the situation well. With a schedule like that, I (the mother) would have melted down! :LOL I'm a non-pregnant, SAHM - when ds was 3.5, we never scheduled back-to-back activities. For that matter, we didn't schedule anything in the evening. But we're pretty laid back. :)

[Mizelenius]

when ds was 3.5, we never scheduled back-to-back activities. For that matter, we didn't schedule anything in the evening. But we're pretty laid back. :)
:yeah: Us, too!

[Wugmama]

I'm so grateful for all of the responses, each and every one - thanks you guys - :hug to you all.

I definitely need to ditch this schedule. I don't know what I was thinking. This is the first time we've had her in activities. Live and learn I guess.

I'm so thankful my dd, dh and I were able to have a fun and happy evening last night after the previous evening. With that, and all of your suggestions and support, I am feeling much better today. Like maybe I can handle the new baby after all! :wink

:love
Tracy

[Britishmum]

If the skating is only 12 weeks, why not do that but drop the youth group until the skating is over. One activity is more than enough for such a young child.

Then, I"d not beat yourself up over it. Sounds like dd was overtired and you did the best you could in the situation. I honestly don't think it was a disaster although it may have felt like that at the time. Personally, if she mentions it again I'd just explain, "I'm sorry, sweetie, but you were overtired and wouldnt wash your hands. You needed to go to bed, and that's why I shut the door. So that I could cuddle up with you and go to sleep." End of story. I do think that the more upset you are about it, the more she will start to feel that it really was an issue. The more factual you are about it, the less of a deal it becomes to her.

Once you've cut her schedule back, it wont' be so likely to happen. However, once you have the baby, expect it to happen fairly frequently. See this as a trial run! :) ;)

[oceanbaby]

The irony is I thought I was doing such a good job of staying calm - doing the best considering the bad situation. And that was HER perception of what happened.

Wow, this brings back a really bad memory for me. One day we were at the park while ds1 was transitioning out of diapers. I could tell he needed to pee, so I was encouraging him towards the bathroom. He kept dawdling along the way, and I was being patient and kind and explaining that we could come right back, but we needed to go use the bathroom so he didn't get wet, etc. etc. Then he started dawdling on purpose - I could tell by the look on his face and the way he would glance at me that he actually wasn't interested in that particular leaf, but was just playing with me. I had the baby in my arms, and didn't want to just pick ds1 up and carry him to the bathroom (plus, I believe in being super gentle about potty training). So of course, he peed in his pants before we got to the bathroom. While changing his clothes, my irritation must have come out when I was explaining to him that that's why I wanted him to go to the bathroom.

Well, for weeks later, he kept saying "Please don't get mad at me if I have an accident." I was so upset that this was his take on the situation, especially after how hard I'd tried never to get angry about accidents.

I think you did fine, and sometimes there is no magic, "right" thing to do. This sounds like one of those times.

[AntoninBeGonin]

I'm so grateful for all of the responses, each and every one - thanks you guys - :hug to you all.

I definitely need to ditch this schedule. I don't know what I was thinking. This is the first time we've had her in activities. Live and learn I guess.

:love
Tracy

Very true, Tracy. :) I'm sure it was fun to try new things, but I doubt many little kids could handle that much stress.

cheers!
~Nay

[lilyka]

I think you did just fine. she was overtired and pouty an wanted her way. fine but you don't need to feel bad about making an exutive descision she wasn't happy with.

As for activites i do think that is way too much. We actually changed wednesday night programs to one that was shorter in duration and ended earlier. It helped. It is also more laid back. I try to have a sncak with me when I pick them up which helps. I would never leave them in the bathroom to take carer of things at that pont (well except to go tp the bathroom. as a matter of fat we have tothbrushes etc in the kitchen so that we can walk in the door. w hile one is putting away shoes and coats the others are brushing. I have a very no nonsense approach to bathroom grooming activities.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I think you did just fine in that the situation got out of control and you stayed calm and tried to take things back to the center. I am absolutely certain that everyone here has had those moments, and none of us liked what happened! I have them about once a day!

I also think that looking back and finding the trigger points where you can change things next time is a good idea, as long as you are being constructive with yourself and not beating yourself up with "I should have...". From here, I can see a couple of points where I would ask myself questions for the future.

As others have said, back to back late (for a preschooler) activities seems like way too much. I can't believe your church schedules a regular kids activity that late! I would probably talk to whoever is in charge about changing the time to benefit all of the kids, unless there is something else (e.g. concurrent adult classes) that is driving the time.

I often don't give my kids a choice about the bathroom, especially when I know its going to be an issue. Its just "Its time for us ALL to use the bathroom" and away we go.

If you keep the late routine, can you have snack in the car? For that matter, can you take PJs to church, change her there and then have her fall asleep on the way home? This is how we handle any evening event the kids go to that ends around bedtime. The kids go to church with us for choir practice each week but we keep bedtime by taking PJs, snacks, lovey, and soft blankets with us in the car for coming home. I may have to change soon though because carrying in my 6 YO is starting to get really hard!

Was washing her hands after using the potty really that important, this one time? If she had poop on her hands, then clearly, yes. If its just for the habit of it, was it worth making a fuss over? Urine isn't dangerous and your home toilet probably isn't that germy. They've actually found there are many, many other areas of the house that germs are much worse in than the toilet. Interestingly enough, one of them is the faucet!

After that, I think you were past the point of no return and it wouldn't have worked well no matter what you did!

[mamaofthree]

I think you did a pretty good job... keeping your cool. Don't be too hard on yourself.

I agree with some of the other posters about cutting back on your schedule. I would talk to some of the other parents and see if they also would like a time change, if not I say bug out of church early, even a 1/2 hour or more early so you can be home by 8pm. I also like the idea of changing into PJ's and have a lovey in the car. Also maybe a book on CD or tape for the ride home. You can get books like Clifford and such at the library... that might be a fun way to relax on the way home from the busy day... along with a snack and water or something.

Your doing a good job, and of this incident is as bad as it has ever gotten for you, you are so OK for having another baby. I am a looney while I am pregnant and I have 4 kids. LOL

H

[meemee]

tracy the only thing i would have done is let my dd get into the sink to play. when she gets overtired she gets even more energy. so many times i have put her in the sink (she is safe - she just sits in it and plays with the water and whatever is there) turned off the light and put on some candles and left her alone. she is usually asleep at the sink within 5 to 15 mins. that's when i put her to bed.