Counting to 3 as part of discipline???

[maciascl]

When I was little my mom would count to 3 & if we were not doing what ever it was we were supposed to do by the time she got to 3 we got in trouble. Many times we got smacked but mostly just yelled at or sent to our room etc... No I have been useing the same counting, obviously w/o the yelling, hitting etc with DS. I guess for us it is more of a warning system. I'll tell him to do/not to do something & if he doesn't listen then I start counting. If I do get to 3 I will remove him from the situation/object & tell him again what he is/isn't supposed to be doing. Generally it works & I don't get to 3, but I am curious about what you all think if this as part of GD. I am very unsure of myself & the methods I use sometimes. I tend to lose my patience pretty quuickly & my little guy is very spirited.

[happilyloved]

:thumb I can't believe how well counting to 3 works for us. My older DD is 2 1/2 and fairly spirited. It seems that the countdown gives her just long enough to adjust to what is going to happen, and I can vary it based on how she feels about what is going on. I tell her "I'm going to count to three and we are going to be done with num num" Half the time she pops off, says "un-to-bee" and runs off do do whatever. Other times without letting go she says "more numnum" and in that case I count slowly to let her adjust. 99% of the time when I get to 3, she is ready to do whatever she was objecting to a minute ago. I have had to stop DH from using it in a punitive way because I am so afraid of losing this really positive tool.

Ann

[mamaduck]

I like what Ann has to say about using it as a transitional tool. Sort of like saying, "Two more minutes... then its time to go." I can see how counting to three would be more concrete/helpful to a very little one.

I've also used "counting" as a way to make a task more enjoyable. "Lets see how fast you can get your pajamas on. You dress, and I will count." The kids love when I get out the stop watch.

I do not like the idea of using "1-2-3" to make a child STOP doing something they should not have been doing in the first place. I am very careful not to overuse the words "stop" "don't" and "no." I like for my kids to try things and figure out good choices for themselves. However -- when I do say "Stop," I mean for them to stop this instant. Not in 3 seconds. Usually safety related. I will usually say, "I need you to stop that. Do you need me to help you?" And I tell them why.

I feel like a lot of parents will count to 3 in order to buy a few seconds to see if they are really going to have to stand up, walk across the room, and get involved in following through. IMO, its better to resign yourself to the fact that you need to be involved in the first place. And even to stand up and walk over to your child before you give them direction.

[maciascl]

I do not like the idea of using "1-2-3" to make a child STOP doing something they should not have been doing in the first place. I am very careful not to overuse the words "stop" "don't" and "no." I like for my kids to try things and figure out good choices for themselves. However -- when I do say "Stop," I mean for them to stop this instant. Not in 3 seconds. Usually safety related. I will usually say, "I need you to stop that. Do you need me to help you?" And I tell them why.

I think this is were I am internally struggeling with this. I agree with you completely, but I don't know what to do sometimes when I have explained to DS why it is not safe to jump on the couch & have removed him from the couch 5 times already in the last 2 min (or whatever it is he is doing) For some reason when I start counting he seems feel like ok she is serious, but I agree that when I tell him to stop it means, or atleast it should mean, stop now not in 3 seconds.

DS being the toddler he is & so spirited on top of that I just really feel like I don't know what I am doing sometimes. I know that parenting isn't or atleast shouldn't be about control, but I feel like he is the one in control not me. I don't know I am just feeling very lost right now. :help

[EXOLAX]

I think this is were I am internally struggeling with this. I agree with you completely, but I don't know what to do sometimes when I have explained to DS why it is not safe to jump on the couch & have removed him from the couch 5 times already in the last 2 min (or whatever it is he is doing) For some reason when I start counting he seems feel like ok she is serious, but I agree that when I tell him to stop it means, or atleast it should mean, stop now not in 3 seconds.

I'm personally not a fan of counting, but to each their own and what works with one child may not work with another (different personalities, life experiences etc. all play a part in how children will react). That said in the couch example here's what I would do. I'd give my kids choices so they feel they have some control over the situation. I'd say "It isn't safe to jump on the couch. You can sit on the couch or you can jump on the floor. Which would you like to do?" I use a lot of redirection as well. "What if we take the cushions off the couch and you jump on them on the floor?" At your DC's age I would also ask them for suggestions. "Where do you think is a safe place to jump?" And help them if they need it by listing some safe places to do that activity ("Do you want to jump with me holding hands? Would you like to jump in a pile of leaves? How about a matress on the floor?" etc.).

Choices work really well for us and I do feel it gives the kids a sense of control. Instead of always saying what they can't do they're given options and redirected in a positive way. Just be forewarned... the kids will learn this trick and use it on you. ;) "Mom, here are your choices: I can eat a treat now or we can talk about eating one later" Me: "I choose to talk about mayber eating one later.". ;)

I'm in complete agreement with mamaduck! We avoid the use of the same words too! I save them for safety issues and there's no room at all for one of our girls not to listen so counting isn't an option there. If I say stop you need to stop (no, it's not a choice to run into the street). No means No, not maybe or sometime soon (sticking things into an electrical outlet is not an option).

I really liked the book "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline". It reinforced what felt right to me.

[Mizelenius]

nak
Personally, I don't count to 3. It sounds like a threat. I have, however, been known to play The Chicken Dance (http://www.brianmichaelsdj.com/chicken.htm) as a "race against the clock" game. It works well since the song gets faster and faster!

xaloxe, I love Esy to Love, DTD too!!!

[maciascl]

That said in the couch example here's what I would do. I'd give my kids choices so they feel they have some control over the situation. I'd say "It isn't safe to jump on the couch. You can sit on the couch or you can jump on the floor. Which would you like to do?" I use a lot of redirection as well. "What if we take the cushions off the couch and you jump on them on the floor?" At your DC's age I would also ask them for suggestions. "Where do you think is a safe place to jump?" And help them if they need it by listing some safe places to do that activity ("Do you want to jump with me holding hands? Would you like to jump in a pile of leaves? How about a matress on the floor?" etc.).

Choices work really well for us and I do feel it gives the kids a sense of control. Instead of always saying what they can't do they're given options and redirected in a positive way. Just be forewarned... the kids will learn this trick and use it on you. ;) "Mom, here are your choices: I can eat a treat now or we can talk about eating one later" Me: "I choose to talk about mayber eating one later.". ;)



:bow CHOICES, duh!!! :duh I think I just get so overwhelmed when I am in the situation I forget everything else & just get angry. I just bought the book Playfull Parenting, but I haven't gotten to read it yet. Today has been a little better, but we shall see...Thanks for the suggestions!!!

[mike]

Now I have read many things and I have several certificats In the child care field. What I have gathered is it is best not to count because they learn not to listen to anything befor your count is up. It is best however to give them a transition fase. like saying were leaving in 3 minutes but since they cant tell time they dont have to be exact minutes. So if your counting is working good just make sure your doing it in a transition countdown way not a threatening way.

[because]

:thumb I can't believe how well counting to 3 works for us. My older DD is 2 1/2 and fairly spirited. It seems that the countdown gives her just long enough to adjust to what is going to happen, and I can vary it based on how she feels about what is going on. I tell her "I'm going to count to three and we are going to be done with num num" Half the time she pops off, says "un-to-bee" and runs off do do whatever. Other times without letting go she says "more numnum" and in that case I count slowly to let her adjust. 99% of the time when I get to 3, she is ready to do whatever she was objecting to a minute ago. I have had to stop DH from using it in a punitive way because I am so afraid of losing this really positive tool.

Ann

This is what I would have said... My 2.5 yo DD does NOT do well with sudden changes but 1-2-3 is just long enough to transition.

We also use it as the countdown to her making a decision. As in, "When I say 'three,' you can wash your hands like a big girl or I can lift you up and do it like a baby." Maybe this is a little punitive, but these really are the only options when she's covered in spagetti sauce, you know?

Regardless, it really works for us and DD is much happier when she gets the "choice" or a chance to do it on her "own time" - which is what the extra three seconds helps her believe.

[Mizelenius]

I think a countdown to transition (as in, "We're leaving in 5 minutes") works well.

[~Megan~]

I'm sure it works for some people but it just annoys the crap out of me to hear someone counting to their kids.

[EXOLAX]

We also use it as the countdown to her making a decision. As in, "When I say 'three,' you can wash your hands like a big girl or I can lift you up and do it like a baby." Maybe this is a little punitive, but these really are the only options when she's covered in spagetti sauce, you know?


I don't see this as much different then what we do with just simple choices. I'm just curious, but what happens if you don't count and just give her choices? I don't add the veil of big girl/baby in their either, I just give the choice "You really need to wash your hands so you don't get spaghetti sauce all over your books or toys. I'd rather play then clean up spaghetti sauce off of everything. Would you like to wash your hands yourself or would you like me to help you wash them?". I'm just wondering what the counting in there gets you. My kids don't have to answer immediatly, they can take their time to respond and think about it, but if they don't make a choice I will make it for them (always the third option: "Would you like me to make the decision for you?"). I guess I just see the counting as an unnecessary step. I don't necessarily think in this sense it's being used punitively but I sense a hint of manipulation in the big girl/baby idea as trying to sway her decision one way or the other. I'm just curious here. I hear parents counting to their kids all the time and I don't understand the reasoning. I'd just like to undertand it better. I'm wondering if with some kids choices don't work unless you add something else to it (like this) as all kids are different after all.

[VBMama]

Just wanted to add that I am another mama who has found that counting really helps ds to transition from one activity to another. Seems like that is a different use from what the OP was asking, though.

[because]

I don't see this as much different then what we do with just simple choices. I'm just curious, but what happens if you don't count and just give her choices?

We don't always count. DD is very strong willed (which I think is great, BTW) and will refuse to choose sometimes. Giving her the option plus the time to think it through eliminates a total meltdown when otherwise her response to a necessary request (like washing hands) is " Noooooo!!!!"

I don't add the veil of big girl/baby in their either

It's not always framed this way but she's very into who is a big kid v. who is still a baby (she has many cousins of various ages). Being a baby isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes she chooses the baby option and goo-goos and babbles like a baby while I help her. She's very into getting fed like a baby or getting changed like a baby (which is hysterical for both of us when she gets all limp and goofy).

I'm sure it works for some people but it just annoys the crap out of me to hear someone counting to their kids.

I have to admit it creeps me out when I don't know the parent well enough to know if "three" will be followed by smacking.

[USAmma]

Counting to 3 doesn't really work that well in our house, but I still do it. When I get so, so upset, the counting works to calm me down and allow me to collect my thoughts and think about what to do next.

[mamazee]

I have too much baggage about this. My mom used to count to three and then smack us *HARD* with her shoe. I can't hear counting like that without feeling threatened, so I wouldn't be able to count without feeling like I was threatening my child.

It sounds more like a threat than a transitionary thing to me, but I recognize that is probably due to my baggage.

[Devaskyla]

I very occasionally count with my ds. I'm really tempting fate with it though, since I don't ever have a consequence for getting to one (I count 3, 2, 1), since I've never get that far. Usually saying 3 is enough to get him to listen. We used to use it when he was about to do something thatmight be dangerous or destructive and when we got to one, we held him for 30-60 seconds and explained why he shouldn't be doing whatever it was. I don't remember the last time we ever got to that, though, it was at least 2 years ago.

[JERENAUD]

(lurking from other boards)

My daughter is 2, and while I don't count often I do use it. However, I find that I use it more for *my* benefit than as a threat to her. She, like many of the children already refered to in this thread, has a mind of her own and wants to do things on her own schedule. (Again, I think this is generally a great thing). For me, counting to 3 reminds *me* to give *her* time to do something and to feel that she's had more control over the timing. And it helps to keep me from feeling impatient with her.

Just another perspective,

Erica

[ShadowMom]

Just to add another perspective - I have never ever counted with my DS, unless you count giving him transition time at the playground (I don't count, but I say "Ok, we're going to need to leave soon, sweetie guy, so go ahead and go down the slide a few more times).

I guess for me, if DS is doing something he shouldn't, I don't want him to think I don't mean it when I say stop. So if I tell him to stop doing what he's doing, and he doesn't, then I go over there, etc. :blah

When it comes to getting him to do stuff that I want him to (like wash his hands) I just try to remind him and be patient because it takes several seconds for ideas to really register with him sometimes (they are so INTO whatever they're doing!). I don't count... but if I needed him to go wash his hands and he was stalling, I would remind him and then tell him I would need to pick him up and take him in there if he didn't do it (we've never had an issue with washing hands, but that's what I do with other stuff that isn't an option).

HTH. :) Everyone's got a little bit different way of doin' things...

[westernmamomma]

For us we use counting as a way for dd to know that she has a certain amount of time to do something on her own, and at three, we'll be there to assist her in doing something. Since she is very independant, the thought of not being able to do something by herself is enough of an impetus for her. i.e. You have until 3 to put your coat on and when I get to 3 I'm going to help you. Things like that, no punishment or yelling.

[maciascl]

Thanks for all the diffent perspectives on this. I think we will continue to do it, but not as often & maybe in a diffrent way. I agree with some of the others, many times I count to give ME time so I don't lose my temper as easily. So I think that is where it best fits in for us.

[mightymoo]

I don't find it works for us because DD loves to count. If I count to get her to do something faster, she just stops to count! Then the next time we do that she wants me to count again and it ends up slowing everything down. LOL

[levar]

I read "1-2-3 Magic" a while back when my son was ~2yr old. I've been using 1-2-3 [in our own way] ever since. At 5.5 yrs old I like to use 1-2-3 alot more than at 2 yr old since he now seems to understand me better. We have also recently started what I call "transition" to NO warnings/counting. Ie: He knows the rules, and doesnt get counted before being expected to follow them.

I dont approach 1-2-3 as punishment but as withholding-of-reward. He gets rewarded for "good" behavior and nada for "bad" behavior. I try to be very clear about "consequences" too so that he KNOWS what happens if I say "That's 3".