Different certification bodies, their websites and referrals question!

[Hells_Belle]

Hi! :) I'm so glad to have found this forum - I've read back through pages and pages of threads and learned so much and been so inspired by all of you. I'm so pleased to be starting down the path of doula training soon, and joining all of you in supporting birthing mothers.

I know the topic of who to certify with (if you want to get certified, of course) has been discussed in this forum quite a bit, but I'm looking at it from a slightly different POV. I'm now at the stage where I really need to make a choice, because I'm in Ireland and there are no courses here so I would have to fly to the US to do in-person training. And I'd need to book my tix ASAP.

So here's the thing. I'm looking at DONA (in person three day training in the US), CAPPA (video training), and Childbirth International (online training.) And here's my breakdown:

1/ DONA: I'm sure the training course would be great, but would be very difficult for me to get to, though it is do-able. And it's attractive because so many women here say they get great referrals off the DONA website. AFAIK, I'd be the only DONA certified doula in Ireland, at least as of now. That can't be a bad thing.

2/ CAPPA: Video tape based training, but a similar programme to DONA. But the website is truly terrible, and the "find a doula near you" interface for potential clients to use is virtually hidden and hard to use.

3/ CBI: Online training videos. Training looks good, but much less rigorous certification requirements than the other two. Much better website than CAPPA, but it isn't set up to help potential clients find doulas - it's all just based around the certification process.

I guess what I'm asking is: does the potential for referrals from DONA outweight everything else? Because if not, CBI makes the most sense for me unless the less rigorous certification program means it's percieved as inferior in some way by mothers or HCPs?

Thank you so much for any thoughts!

[dynamicdoula]

Let me ask you a few questions:

What is it about certification that is important to you?

When choosing a certifying body, what are the top two or three things you are looking for?

Have you explored all of your options?

Is it just training you are looking for, or training and certification?

[Noelia430]

I guess what I'm asking is: does the potential for referrals from DONA outweight everything else?

That really is something that you need to ask yourself. I suggest you read the code of ethics and standards of practice for all 3 organizations and make your decision based on which one is most in line with your thinking.

Many people have different reasons for going with certain org's, be it convenience, referral system, philosphy, etc...
You'll just need to sit down and really think about which one of these aspects is more important to you.

Good luck on your journey!

[Hells_Belle]

Thanks for these insightful questions :)

What is it about certification that is important to you?

As far as I can gather from having only recently moved here, doulas are rare here. Getting clients would very likely involve a lot of education on the role and value of a doula. I think parents who are new to the concept would be reassured by having a "certified doula" so it's a comfort inclination.

I also think a certification is going to be important here when qaulifying myself to healthcare professionals. So those are both external factors.

Also, moving from a traditional professional field to a "less traditional" field (which I know is ironic because doulas are as old as time), I myself want the... umm, feather in my cap?... of a certification. I think that *for me* certification will translate to professional confidence. Not in delivering services, but in selling them.

When choosing a certifying body, what are the top two or three things you are looking for?

1/ Good training. (I need to be confident.)
2/ A fast road to certiciation. (I need my clients to be confident.)
3/ A code of ethics I can live with and operate within comfortably.

Have you explored all of your options?

I think so. I've looked at courses in the US and UK, all the certifying bodies I know of, all the training methods available, etc. I've checked out all the ancillary services training I could take locally (reflexology, aromatherpay, massage, etc).

Is it just training you are looking for, or training and certification?

I really want both, for sure :) There is a training-only option up in Dublin, but I decided not to go that route for all of the above reasons. I can (and will) still take that training, though.


That really is something that you need to ask yourself. I suggest you read the code of ethics and standards of practice for all 3 organizations and make your decision based on which one is most in line with your thinking.

I've read both CAPPA and DONA's codes. I can't find CBI's, so I will be calling them tomorrow to follow that up. Does anyone know anything about that?

I have to say (though hesitantly) that I'm not so comfortable with a COE that maintains a doula should never advocate for a mother. Sometimes, I think someone does need to say "Can we just hold the phone a minute here?" to let the parents re-focus and get back in control of a birth. I'd just rather work out the scope of services with the family and not with the certification body.

[dynamicdoula]

Going to engage in dialogue here... these answers are all from my own experience/perspective...

As far as I can gather from having only recently moved here, doulas are rare here. Getting clients would very likely involve a lot of education on the role and value of a doula. I think parents who are new to the concept would be reassured by having a "certified doula" so it's a comfort inclination.

From my experience (as an uncertified doula by choice), when my clients ask if I am certified, they often do not even know what that means. When I explain the process and why I have chosen not to undergo it, they have never balked. If you are exposing people to the concept for the very first time, would they really care about certification or even know that it's an issue, unless it's something you told them? In my experience, when a couple/woman wants to hire me, they want to hire me, not my certifications. Just food for thought. :)

I also think a certification is going to be important here when qaulifying myself to healthcare professionals. So those are both external factors.

There are hospital doula programs or even local doula organizations who have relationships with the state/county/local gvt, or local hospitals that require doulas to be certified to become involved. I struggle with the 'qualifying myself to health professionals' because I never defend why I am there, or why I have a right to be in the room.... and I do see what you are saying because we live in a credential society and at the end of the day, people care about those letters after your name... but honestly I feel like my actions speak louder for me. I've known doulas who have certifications out the ear and they are wackos in life. LOL (No offense to the resident wackos! lol) :love

1/ Good training. (I need to be confident.)
2/ A fast road to certiciation. (I need my clients to be confident.)
3/ A code of ethics I can live with and operate within comfortably.

If I am hearing you right (and please, let me know if I'm not), you are wanting certification because you feel that your clients would be more comfortable if you were certified. Is that right?

What if I say that your clients will comfortable whether you are certified or not?
I suggest looking for a certification program that feels worth your time and money- getting your ordainment online is not nearly the same as going to seminary school, if you catch my drift. LOL

I am not trying to talk you out of certification - not at all. Having gone through this torturous journey of whether to certify or not and being where I am now, I can look back and feel glad that I spent a lot of time on the decision. Now I am going to certify as a childbirth educator with Birthing From Within, because their program is very difficult, and it requires more of me as a person, and as a childbirth professional, than the other programs do. But that's important to me- because certification to me implies a level of skill, expertise, experience. It tells your client the same thing, right? That is your point- if I'm understanding it... so if this is important to you to be viewed as a professional, someone knowledgeable, then go for a program that puts you through your paces. You're not going to lose clients because you're uncertified unless you talk them out of hiring you. If you go in and tell them, "Well, I'm not certified...." they will see your lack of confidence. If you tell them, "I am currently researching my certification options, would you like to know more about that?"- you sound confident, sure of what you're doing, and responsible. I hope that makes sense? :o I don't bring up certification with my clients, if it is something my client wants to know they will ask me. :) I feel very comfortable about talking it through with them. I think this goes back to really believing that your services are WORTH paying for. Ykwm?

I really want both, for sure There is a training-only option up in Dublin, but I decided not to go that route for all of the above reasons. I can (and will) still take that training, though.

You know, something I'm learning now... all training is valuable! I am planning to take several doula trainings, several childbirth ed trainings, just because it exposes me to things I might not have otherwise learned. Maybe it's not the time for that right now for you , but I just wanted to throw it out there that it might be worthwhile at some point to take the training, and find out what the newer doulas in your area are being taught. Would that training allow you to get started as a doula? Would you be able to use that training for certification purposes through any of the certifying bodies, even if the org doing the training doesn't certify doulas?

I have to say (though hesitantly) that I'm not so comfortable with a COE that maintains a doula should never advocate for a mother. Sometimes, I think someone does need to say "Can we just hold the phone a minute here?" to let the parents re-focus and get back in control of a birth. I'd just rather work out the scope of services with the family and not with the certification body.

I know that CAPPA discourages their doulas from attending unassisted births too. If you feel strongly about having that option, they probably aren't the organization for you. Sometimes it comes down to, "Even if I never would, I want to know I can if it ever comes up." I do think you can get your need to advocate met, just creatively, and remain w/in the scope of practice.

Personally, I believe strongly that we do not speak for the mother, EVER. But, we do get creative. "S, didn't you say you wanted a few minutes to discuss things w/your husband before making a decision?" You're asking a question, inviting her to say, "Yes, I'll need a few minutes." The language needs to come from her or her partner but that doesn't mean we can't carefully remind them. ;) So yes, you don't stand in front of the doctor and say, "She doesn't want to be cut!" But you can poke dad and say, "I see the doctor picking up the scissors!" Fine lines in this work! LOL

I also wanted to offer that there are many organizations that train and certify doulas:

Birthing From Within (http://www.birthingfromwithin.com)
BirthWorks (http://www.birthworks.com/)
ALACE (http://www.alace.org), which is one of the oldest doula programs out there and is based in training doulas who intended to go on to midwifery
Many midwifery schools offer doula trainings or labor support trainings.

Good luck with your path! You will know the right program/thing to do when it is presented to you!

[Hells_Belle]

Going to engage in dialogue here... these answers are all from my own experience/perspective...

Thanks! That's exactly what I wanted, and I appreciate your willingness to share both your experience and your time.

and I do see what you are saying because we live in a credential society and at the end of the day, people care about those letters after your name... but honestly I feel like my actions speak louder for me...

If I am hearing you right (and please, let me know if I'm not), you are wanting certification because you feel that your clients would be more comfortable if you were certified. Is that right?

Well, yes. I think *I* would be more comfortable, my clients might be more comfortable since this may be a new concept to them, and hospital staff who've not encountered doulas may be, too. Of course, it's possible I may get to the other side and realise it is just never an issue...


I suggest looking for a certification program that feels worth your time and money- getting your ordainment online is not nearly the same as going to seminary school, if you catch my drift. LOL

But that's important to me- because certification to me implies a level of skill, expertise, experience. It tells your client the same thing, right? That is your point- if I'm understanding it... so if this is important to you to be viewed as a professional, someone knowledgeable, then go for a program that puts you through your paces.

I totally understand what you're saying. I think I've already divided this up in my head into two slightly different sections. One, I'm very committed to the in-person training. Even though the opportunities I have don't lead to any certification, I still think they'd be so valuable. I have a chance to take a course with Michael Odent in November, and with Ina May Gaskin in December. I'm totally excited about these. I'll also be doing a reflexology course starting in January.

But two, I still want the piece of paper :). I'm not so concerned about the training behind it, which I admit is lame, but that's because I'm confident that I'll have very valuable additional training, plus eventually the best training of all - experience! Therefore, the CBI certification is attractive to me because it's both accessible to me and pretty rapid.

I know certification won't be an issue for some clients at all, but for those for whom it is, I want to be able to tick that box. Professional footing is important to me as a person as well - I'm used to being highly qualified in my field :)

Does that make sense? I realise it's a different approach than a lot of women who go ito doulaing, but it's just what I think I personally need to accomplish.

And yes, I looked very closely at ALACE but their training workshops schedule didn't work with my travel plans at all, so it became DONA or online/video just for practical reasons. I'm still very attracted to their CBE course, though! I'm very happy to mix-n-match :)

[ldsapmom]

Can I share my own perspective, coming from the other end?

I knew all along I wanted the certification. I am a lay breastfeeding counselor, and what was really important to me about being involved in that organization carried over into what I wanted from a certifying doula organization (namely a bigger name behind me so I am not "on my own," liability or grievance policy, etc.).

One situation I heard about with a local doula who was not certified was this: She had a client who felt the doula really did not perform as their contract stated. After this client's birth, she spoke to the doula about it. There really was no action the client could take except, "Hire a different doula next time." There was no governing agency this client could contact to make aware of the situation. She felt pretty much alone, and taken advantage of.

With a DONA-certified doula, this would not happen. I am accountable to someone else besides myself. If a client had an issue with me, she could file a grievance through DONA and they would investigate the situation. From there they would determine if action needs to be taken against me. But this policy also protects me, as a doula, too.

I know doula work is a labor of love -- that it is more important what's in your heart and hands versus what's on your nametag. But for me, I wanted the additional benefits certification gave me, and I felt I could not represent myself as a doula with nothing behind me (there again because of my breastfeeding background -- just as I don't represent myself as a breastfeeding helper with only me in the picture). I like the idea of being part of an international, well-known organization.

Good luck in your decision! There was a time when I was unsure about certification, but in the end I made the choice that was right for me.

[Joyce in the mts.]

CAPPA also has a grievance policy, by the way...
Joyce in the mts.

[Amydoula]

Can I share my own perspective, coming from the other end?

I knew all along I wanted the certification. I am a lay breastfeeding counselor, and what was really important to me about being involved in that organization carried over into what I wanted from a certifying doula organization (namely a bigger name behind me so I am not "on my own," liability or grievance policy, etc.).

One situation I heard about with a local doula who was not certified was this: She had a client who felt the doula really did not perform as their contract stated. After this client's birth, she spoke to the doula about it. There really was no action the client could take except, "Hire a different doula next time." There was no governing agency this client could contact to make aware of the situation. She felt pretty much alone, and taken advantage of.

With a DONA-certified doula, this would not happen. I am accountable to someone else besides myself. If a client had an issue with me, she could file a grievance through DONA and they would investigate the situation. From there they would determine if action needs to be taken against me. But this policy also protects me, as a doula, too.

I know doula work is a labor of love -- that it is more important what's in your heart and hands versus what's on your nametag. But for me, I wanted the additional benefits certification gave me, and I felt I could not represent myself as a doula with nothing behind me (there again because of my breastfeeding background -- just as I don't represent myself as a breastfeeding helper with only me in the picture). I like the idea of being part of an international, well-known organization.

Good luck in your decision! There was a time when I was unsure about certification, but in the end I made the choice that was right for me.


:yeah: