i'm about to give my ex a piece of my mind and need help deciding what to say -long

[mandib50]

so my ex is a terrible father. i don't say this lightly because my 12 yr old dd is in a lot of pain over this. he has not spent anytime with our kids (12 yr old dd and 9 yr old ds) since the beginning of august and he lives, oh about 3 minutes away. he left when they were 4yrs and 5 months. he has been erraticaly(sp) involved in their lives at best, shows no interest in their extra-curricular activities, does not phone them (nope, not even on birthdays) except on occasion and for the past year or so has seen it fit to criticize their homeschooling (not to mention he criticizes me to their face) as well as getting on them for being involved in piano and dd's ballet. he tells them often they need to quit because it costs too much money (he foots the bill because he makes more money than i do, he makes over $80000/yr) even tho the kids have been in piano for years and really enjoy it and my dd is passionate about ballet.
i don't want to drone on about the details but it has come to this. my dd does not want to see her dad at all. she is in so much emotional pain over this. i have told her (after consulting with her counsellor) that she needs only to see her dad when she is ready.

i have decided i need to tell my ex that he needs to stop criticizing the kids because they take it to heart and feel bad about themselves. he does not even get an opinion about their homeschooling or activities because he is not involved in their lives and that he needs to stop berating them for what they do. i believe his role is to be their biggest supporter and fan, and not to be critical of what they do.

i also need to say something about my dd's not seeing him until she is ready. if i bring up the counselling thing, he will pester her about it and use it against her. if i bring it up that she doesn't want to see him he'll be after her about it. if i say it's my decision he'll ask why, which i don't mind but i don't want it to come back to my dd because he'll be after her about it.

any ideas? thanks for reading and hopefully it made sense

[MsChatsAlot]

He sounds like a complete jerk and I'm sorry it is so painful for your kids.

If you are thinking of talking to him, have you thought about what you hope to accomplish? When you say you need to tell him to stop criticizing....do you really think he'll listen or change? The reason I'm saying this is because I've been there and thought my ex will hear what I say or change because it's hurting the kids.....but in reality, it doesn't. The only one who can choose to change is him and I know that when I've tried to tell my ex things, most of the time he just hears, "blah, blah, blah." He's not really interested and therefore could care less about anything I say.

Perhaps you could write everything down that you want to say to him. It will help you feel better by getting it all out and then afterward, you can edit a lot of your feelings and emotion out and stick to facts. Like, "it is upsetting for the kids when you criticize their hobbies." Be specific about the behavior and how it affects the kids. If it's factual, there's less for him to be defensive about and less to argue about. Then he can decide if he's going to make changes or not. He may think about some of it, but if you suggest what he should do, he'll likely get defensive immediately and ignore all of it.

It is so difficult to deal with the hurt and pain our children feel and to know what our ex's "should" be doing and aren't. If you can find some peaceful time to reflect about what is best to say, I'm sure you will find the right words.

[mandib50]

i never thought about writing my thoughts down - great idea!
i know what you're saying about him not changing. i realize he won't and like you said all he'll hear is blah blah blah regardless. i want him to realize it's hurting the kids, and i don't think he really is aware of that because they don't say anything to him about it because they don't have that comfort level with him. i am doing it so that there may be an opportunity for him to change his behavior so that at least my ds enjoys being around him, it's too late for my dd unless he really smartens up and comes around.

thanks for listening!
oh and my dh is going to be with me and it really helps that my ex is scared of my dh. thanks to dh my ex is no longer rude to me so it's worth a shot :wink

[meemee]

mandi since money talks - and i know this is not what you are asking for - can you afford to tell him no need to pay CS if he gets the heck out of his dd's lives? i am sure you have considered this.

one of my neighbours wished she had just cut off all contacts with her ex so her dd wouldnt be hurt so much. the dd finally built up enough courage to tell him not to contact her anymore when she was 17. he woudl come up once a year to see her and then appear drunk without keeping the time he had promised. one time he came for 3 days and spent just an hour with his dd. and didnt show up for 2 appointments he made with her.

it seems ur ex is like neighbour's ex.

another question. would he really listen to you? would he believe you that he is hurting the kids. could u get a third party involved like a friend who both of you trust and whom ur ex would believe.

:HUG: i am so sorry you are going thru this. to watch your children suffer - is probably teh hardest thing i could live with.

[Jster]

Maybe if he hasn't seen/talked to them in 3 months then he's letting things peter off? I would also add to the great comments above that, by talking to him, you might renew his frustrations and he might just get involved with the kids again just to retaliate (don't know the relationship, but a possibility).

I think it's great you've got a counselor for your daughter, but perhaps you could just wait until the next time he wants to be involved with them and then play your card and assert your daughter's preference. And my guess is that even if he became a great dad all of a sudden for your ds (unlikely!) then your dd would still feel the pain of her lack of a relationship, and it might even be magnified. Just some thoughts! Sometimes it seems that by acting, we can get something we want to happen accomplished, but it might only stir up the deep dark sea!

[meemee]

ooooooh jennifer. you have made an excellent, excellent point. i have experienced teh same with my ex. i could not force him to spend more time with his dd. if i said something it just stirred teh hornet's nest. he would visit more for the first couple of days and then go back to his usual routine.

i think it is a great idea not to be confrontational about it.

[mandib50]

ok. now i don't even know what to do anymore! i'm going to have to say something about my dd not wanting to go. she's so scared of him that seriously she runs and hides in my bathroom if he shows up at the door and then i have to make something up because she doesn't want me to tell him. i see her point because he'll be a jerk about it but i can't keep lying all the time either and she's scared. i just would at the very least like to tell him dd is not going to be seeing him until SHE is ready. ds isn't totally opposed, but isn't terribly keen either, especially when dd isn't with him. ds was supposed to go halloweening with the ex, but got "sick" before he showed up and then felt fine afterwards :( i really don't know what to do :(
i do value the father/child relationship, i think it's terribly important but dd's heart is broken for g-d's sake! she's only 12! and it's her dad! i mean she's crushed and then he acts interested here and there which only makes it worse for her :( i don't blame her, she kept hoping for the longest time and she's just realized :( sigh. maybe if i don't say anything he'll back off for good? i was thinking if i said something that might happen. i'm not sure now.

[MsChatsAlot]

You know a very similar thing is happening right now with my 14 year old neice. Her dad has been inconsistent in her life and very controlling. She doesn't want to see him, but she is scared to talk to him because he lays these huge guilt trips and such on her. It's horrible.

Do you think her counselor might have some ideas? I agree that it's important to let him know that she's not coming, but I also think at some point, she has to learn to stand up to her father or she will likely not ever stand up to anyone (especially boys/men) in the future.

Maybe you could find someone who could be there when dad comes (a more neutral 3rd party -- maybe even the counselor) and you and this other person could be there to help support your daughter, but allow her to tell her dad straight how she feels and why. He may be less likely to get upset if someone else is there? And with her feeling supported this may be a turning point for her. I don't know. But I've been thinking about things like this because of my neice and it seems like they are in some ways too young to stand up for themselves (and they shouldn't have to do it alone) and yet, it seems like an important life lesson that if not learned, will set a pattern for the next years.

[meemee]

oh mandi, you sound so sad i just had to send you a cyber hug :Hug

i really hope somehow you will figure out a way out of this. or this will work out by itself.

i agree with mschats. maybe your dd's counselor will have some ideas too.

[mandib50]

hi well i think i'll wait on talking to him. after promising the kids he'd pick them up yesterday or today, naturally he did not so i'm thinking he's actually backing out of their lives and unless he starts being nasty on the kids again i think it's best to leave it alone for now.
thanks - you are all very wise mama's :heartbeat