Doppler Risks?

[Mom2Adam]

Hi -

We have decided not to do ultrasounds this pregnancy (after much research and deliberation) - - -

However, we are considering doppler - but I have heard that there are risks attached with the doppler too - anybody have input on this?

If we don't use a doppler - when is the soonest we could hear heartbeat with a fetalscope? (am I spelling that correctly?) -

Thanks for your input!

[Momalea]

I did some reading about these issues as well. If you do a search in MDC under doppler, you'll find lots of info. I decided to use the doppler once before 20 weeks to hear if there was a heartbeat for sure and have used the fetascope ever since. If I remember right you can start hearing the heartbeat with a fetascope at 20ish weeks. The only disadvantage to the fetascope is that my 5yo dd can't hear the baby's heartbeat with it yet and she would really like to. My midwife is fine with the fetascope until labor, when she wants to be able to use the doppler and that's okay with me.

[Snowdrift]

Doppler is ultrasound. From what I gather is in continuous ultrasound, whereas sonogram is intermittant ultrasound. But they generally use the sonograms machine for longer with a higher amount of intermitant U.S.

My midwife told me the soonest they like to try to a heartbeat with a fetoscope is 20 weeks.

I had the doppler yesterday, and it was worth it. I am so less nervous than
I have been, and I no longer have that wistful 'not quite pregnant' feeling.

The risks of ultrasound are speculative. To me that means that I'm avoiding it in all cases when I don't *know* that it will have an important positive effect.

The dangers of anxiety/depression cycles in pregnancy are well-known, so I chose to use the doppler to alleviate that almost completely.

[JuicyPakwan]

Doppler actually uses 2x's the amount of waves as an ultrasound.
I am not sure why but I am assuming it is because the same amount is being forced out of a smaller probe like forcing the same amount of water out of a smaller hose it comes out at a stronger intensity I could be totally wrong on that though.
I am much more comfy with u/s but have used dopplers for short periods of time like about 30 sec. Also on the ultrasound I have had 2 this pg for threatened miscarriage but I only allowed them to use it for less than a minute long enough to visualize baby and get out. My cousin had a video done that lasted over and HOUR!!! Yikes!!
If your lucky you can hear heart tones at 16w but more likely 18-20wks with a stethescope.

[ellymay]

OK I have never heard anything bad about u/s or doppler so IDK what exactly
you all are talking about but I wouldn't stop getting u/s or using a doppler unless
it was a thing that would cause death in my child. IMO it couldn't be any worse
than half the stuff you breath in when you are outside in the city or preservatives
that are in foods.

[maybebaby]

I agree that if you're not going to do u/s, you definitely wouldn't want to do doppler because there are more/more concentrated us waves w/ the doppler.

Ellymay, there just haven't been studies to show that u/s is actually *safe* and what long term effects there might be. I'm not well versed on this stuff so maybe someone else can fill you in better than I...Oh, I believe also there is a lot of sound from these procedures and it can be very loud to the baby (once baby can hear of course)

I just know that during the u/s's I've had in the past, the baby tried to move away from the transducer and got very agitated during the procedure. Every time.

So this time, I'm trying to avoid them...BUT I'm not a teetotaler. I will likely wnat to hear the hb this week when I go in just to ease my mind then I'll wait for the fetoscope for the rest. And I haven't actually ruled out one quick peek mid pg to make sure all is developing well. I just think these things are used far too often; the hospital mw I started with will do them for just about anything and I don't think that's a good idea. One or two, imo, is probably okay.

Oh, ellymay, I also wanted to say you're right, there are bad things in lots of places. I try to avoid what I can though...I can avoid most preservatives, I can avoid medications that I'm not 110% sure about, I can avoid u/s if I decide that's important to me. It's all about doing what you can, not just saying "well, it's all bad so what does it matter" (NOT that you were saying that, but I hear that a lot from people I know irl...they don't understand why we do some of the things we do and they feel there's no hope so just do whatever you want, yk)

[pfamilygal]

Oh, I believe also there is a lot of sound from these procedures and it can be very loud to the baby (once baby can hear of course)

I just know that during the u/s's I've had in the past, the baby tried to move away from the transducer and got very agitated during the procedure. Every time.

.

How would they hear it? I mean, they are a baby human. Human ears cannot detect doppler frequency or sono frequency. If the baby could hear it you could hear it.

I think the baby moves because of all the pushing on the tummy. Plus, if you had to drink a lot of water (thank God they don't make you do that anymore) you are probably all crampy. At least, I am when my bladder is full.

[dshields]

http://www.mayo.edu/ultrasound/news/03.html

These are the findings of a very well known study out a few years ago.

[NYCVeg]

Ellymay, there just haven't been studies to show that u/s is actually *safe* and what long term effects there might be. I'm not well versed on this stuff so maybe someone else can fill you in better than I...Oh, I believe also there is a lot of sound from these procedures and it can be very loud to the baby (once baby can hear of course)


The problem is that there have been no studies on the possible long-term effects of ultrasound, and it IS known that u/s can alters cells. Let's also not forget--several decades ago, drs were routinely using X-rays on pregnant women and telling them that there was "no evidence of risk" (precisely b/c they hadn't been studied).

I am trying to limit but not totally avoid u/s and doppler. I had two u/s early on b/c they suspected a possible ectopic pregnancy--in this case, the risk seemed worth it. I will allow my mw to use the doppler at my next appointment (13 weeks) briefly, because it will be reassuring to me to hear the heartbeat before 20 weeks, given that this is my first pregnancy. However, I won't use it again--I'll wait until later on when fetoscope will work.

As for whether or not the baby can hear the u/s--I've also heard this (I seem to recall u/s images of a baby with its hands over its ears while u/s was being performed?). I think the sound may travel to the baby because it's traveling through water (amniotic fluid), not air.

[maybebaby]

It's my understanding that the waves in the amniotic fluid create a lot of vibrations, hence the "loud" issue (I just remember reading this but I don't have the info in front of me)

I'm not saying "no one have ultrasounds", I just feel *for me* I don't want to have too many because there are too many assumptions made about their safety. Some people don't agree with that, and that's fine.

edited: yay you guys came through with more in depth and documented info :D

[ozzyemm]

There was a really cool Nat'l Geographic show about the unborn baby's journey to be born. In it, it did state that if the transducer (doppler or sonogram) got close enough to the baby's ear, it would sound like a freight train. However, it did say that all the baby has to do is move in order to not hear the waves anymore.

Babies are tiny humans, but their hearing is more acute than ours, plus they are in liquid, which allows sounds to travel better than in air.

We got a bebe sounds fetoscope, and i was able to hear my baby's heartbeat at 13 weeks. The placenta is attached to the back of my uterus, and the baby tended to be on my right side, so we were able to track him easily and early.

[Wugmama]

My midwives told me the doppler uses the same technology as the ultrasound, but higher frequencies, so could be "worse" than the US. They are actually comfortable with US, dopplers, and fetoscopes. For my comfort level, the used the doppler on two different occasions, but once I hit 20 weeks, they only use the fetoscope, at my request.

~Tracy

[ellymay]

How would they hear it? I mean, they are a baby human. Human ears cannot detect doppler frequency or sono frequency. If the baby could hear it you could hear it.

I think the baby moves because of all the pushing on the tummy. Plus, if you had to drink a lot of water (thank God they don't make you do that anymore) you are probably all crampy. At least, I am when my bladder is full.

I was wondering the same thing about how they could hear it. That is exactly what I was fixing to say to about why the move around bc both
of mine didn't move much until they started all the moving back and forth
and it is like it stimulates them.


I wasn't saying that I just don't care about avoiding certain things my point
was things you cannot help being around and exposed to kwim.
I think the u/s is a wonderful diagnostic tool and until I hear of a child dying
or having defects from it I will continue to use it....JMO....If it wasn't for
the u/s I wouldn't have known about my cyst and wouldn't have know
that there were things I shouldn't have been doing to keep it from busting
and I think it is great for people who get them done early to make sure it
isn't a tubal pregnancy which could be life threatening.

[dshields]

"I was wondering the same thing about how they could hear it. That is exactly what I was fixing to say to about why the move around bc both
of mine didn't move much until they started all the moving back and forth
and it is like it stimulates them."


Ellymay,
That is why I posted the link explaining the immediate effects of ultrasound waves on the fetus. It's very interesting...the link is in my above post.

[ellymay]

I just researched it a little myself and I find it kind of desterbing although I will
still have them done but it was also saying that it raised the temp of the fetus.
Very interesting....here is what I was reading....
http://www.askquestions.org/details.php?id=5
http://www.askquestions.org/articles/ultrasound/
http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/usoundtd.html
http://www.alternamoms.com/ultrasound.html

[Ksenia]

Here's a good article about the risks of ultrasounds:

Weighing the Risks: What You Should Know about Ultrasound (http://www.mothering.com/articles/pregnancy_birth/birth_preparation/ultrasound-risks.html)

Dopplers do emit ultrasound, but the doppler's exposure time is the shortest, making it potentially the least damaging ultrasound device (http://www.mothering.com/articles/pregnancy_birth/birth_preparation/ultrasound-definition.html).

In my last PG I did not have any ultrasounds except a very short ultrasound for diagnosis of a threatened miscarriage and some brief use of the Doppler at the end of ds' birth. This time around I will again decline ultrasounds unless there is a specific indication for their use.

My baby's heart still beats even if I can't hear it :wink !

[Mamatoto2]

I'm adding this to my list of questions for my next appt. (specifically if the MWs will use a fetoscope). I did know that the doppler was technically "worse" than US but the exposure was for a far shorter time. We did use the doppler for less than a minute at my first appt. and quickly heard the heartbeat. I think I want the reassurance again at my next (14 week) appt. because I've been irrationally worried about this pg. and haven't even told anybody but my parents for fear of something being amiss. After that point, I think I'd prefer the fetoscope if available, and I already requested to have ONLY the 20 week US (which I want primarily so that they can take a good look at my placenta since I had a low-lying double-lobed placenta with pg #1 and it caused all sorts of post-partum complications, so I want to be extra careful this time).

[busybusymomma]

Lots of good info here! :thumb We used doppler two weeks in a row because we couldn't find the heartbeat at 12 weeks, probably because baby was swimming away! With my first two, they always ran away from doppler and the u/s. We'll do doppler once a month I guess, but we're not planning any u/s.

[Mom2Adam]

Thank you! All of your responses were very helpful!

Ellymay - I just wanted to say that I am really impressed that you took the time to research a little more. I have great respect for the momma's on this board because they research and then make decisions appropriate for them and their families - which is the point! :lol (unlike my mainstream friends who only read What to Expect!) :irked:

I will consider all the points made and research all the links - I do like the comfort of hearing the heartbeat...but still need to see if that outweighs the risk of the unknown!

I really :throb this board!

Traci

[ellymay]

Traci - Thanks yeah if I hear something like this I just cannot go on what everyone
else says I want and feel I have a responsibilty to research it myself so that I know
first hand what I have read. IKWYM about mainstreem friends mine are the same way
they won't research anything or even listen to what someone else might say ie best
friend was going to bf then changed her mind bc she said it would be to hard on the
baby to wean at 6 weeks and I tried to tell her to ask her doc/pediatritian about it
bc it is much better to do it for 6 weeks than not at all but she just wouldn't even
take the time to look into it or even give it a second thought.