Run-ins with Police Officers

[Dov]

Any Dads ever have a run-in with cops over your kids?

Are your kids permitted to play outside your condo/apt unharrassed?

Do you get confronted by police officers over anonymous tips that you're negligent as a parent?

My dw and I have recently had some hair raising events with gigantic mutant males in uniform, the most recent yesterday when I was informed we were "under surveillance" becaus eof neighbor complaints that our kids play outdoors. I wasn't aware that playing 10 ft from one's apt door was illegal, it's not in our CC&R's anywhere. Our kids are fairly mellow when they're outside, that's why I let them do it, esp. when I can see them at all times through the window where I work, facing it.

Anyway, how'd you guys handle any encounters? Or is it just me? I attract their ego-mojo or whatever. I'm kinda freaked out.

[papapoochie]

We haven't had any run ins w/uniformed folk. Do you live in a small town w/a bored police crew?

We did get a privacy fence in the back so DS is encamped in the back yard but always with one of us. There are too many speeding cars in the front yard. My DS's too young to play alone outside (3.5 yo). How old is your oldest child?

[Avena]

I've observed the police engage in antagonistic behavior towards the common people my whole life. Almost everyone I talk to about the police say the same thing themselves. I have gotten to the point that I believe they are not really interested in 'protecting and serving' we the people. Instead, the people they are protecting and serving are the upper eschelon of society's ruling class. That's my perspective based on my own experiences with them, and my observations of them interacting with other people, and from talking to others about them.

[papapoochie]

DOV, my DW is ultra crunchy and I'm a moderate crunchbar. She has all of these really cool, peace promoting bumper stickers on our car and I noticed that really conservative people get pretty aggressive after reading them. I had one guy shake his head no at me and give me a thumbs down as he aggressively passed us. I thought it was a bit odd and funny at the time, but it really points to a deep and serious rift in our culture.

Anyway, not to get far from your concern, which is very serious. I think people do get harrassed because of how they look or if they have a different thought than the rest of the community.

I would seek out and contact a legal agency. Not hire a lawyer but see if your community has a free legal services outfit and find out what your legal rights are. If not available in your community, perhaps there is a law firm interested in providing pro bono work for you.
Good luck.

[4evermom]

When I studied sociology in college, it was confirmed that image is indeed very important when dealing with police officers, as well as others. Equally important is acting polite, even if treated rudely.

[FlaxSeedGruel]

i haven't had any run-ins with the popo, while my children were with me. thank goodness!

[desertpenguin]

We had CPS called on us..it was pretty scary, but we had a very nice and understanding social worker.
Perhaps the reason why the police officers are getting calls is from genuine concern about your kids....even if you can see them from your window, that doesn't mean that you will have enough time to react to any given situation should something happen.

[zaadad]

We had CPS called on us..it was pretty scary, but we had a very nice and understanding social worker.
Perhaps the reason why the police officers are getting calls is from genuine concern about your kids....even if you can see them from your window, that doesn't mean that you will have enough time to react to any given situation should something happen.

Right.....So we should just put our kids in big plastic bubbles....

Eventually our kids are going to have to be outside with out us standing over them. I'm not advocating not watching your children while they are out but I think that the cops being called and being told you are "under surveillance" is ridiculous. I'm sorry...if the neighbors trully felt "genuine concern" for the kids, they wouldn't be calling the cops. They might mention somthing to the mama/papa but calling the cops is extreme.

I personally am not sure what the role of a police officer is... I understand the whole "lock bad people up thing"...but other than that.....

CR

[pjlioness]

Twice this summer I went inside for a few minutes (took a bag of groceries in and went in to get the diaper bag) and came out to find cops pulled over in front of our house - one was called, the other was driving by. Both of them told me I shouldn't leave the kids outside alone...and we live near a middle school on a fairly quiet road in a town with fewer than 5,000 people.

I feel paranoid now.

[desertpenguin]

Of course our children shouldn't live in bubbles, but it depends on what their ages are and their level of maturity as to whether or not they should be playing outside by themselves. I don't know the ages of the children of the OP...It's sad that we live in such times as to have to be concerned about our children playing outside at all, but that's just a harsh reality of the world that we live in, or at least for most of us.

We live on the same street as an elementary school...there's a registered sex offender who lives right down the street. But we don't live in a small town, or on a quiet street.

FWIW, I believe the instances stated here in this thread are obviously over reactions, but you can't prevent people from over reacting......

[papapoochie]

When I was a child growing up I walked my sister to school. I must have been 6 and she 5. We had no fear of being abducted and the police would smile and say hello. This was in a mid western city.

But I notice a very real shift in parents today, myself most definately included. Parents are terrified of the world harming their/our children. Is it television? Is the world sicker, crazier? Yes, all three.

My mother, who care takes for 3 grandchildren, notes the same feeling I have. She wouldn't let the grandchildren do what we freely did years ago.
She attributes it to an extremely lax legal system. She said kidnappers and sex offenders would not be let out of jail. The sentences were much harsher. The mentally ill were locked up in hospitals their entire lives. So, the community WAS safer.

[pjlioness]

As for registered sex offenders in our area, there are a few, and they are several blocks away. Of course, there is always the possibility that there is someone around who hasn't been caught yet, but I still think the cops were overreacting in my case. (I'm paranoid of them, BTW.)

[pjlioness]

The mentally ill were locked up in hospitals their entire lives. So, the community WAS safer.

Please do not assume that all mentally ill people are dangerous to others, especially children.

[Godiva]

Avena- You are completly correct in your statement about how the police are there not to serve and protect us, but the government. In several court cases where people sued the poliece for not responding to 911 calls (with some horrendous consequences, one case 3 women were raped and tortured for over 3 hours after they called 911) the rulings in all the cases stated that the police have no duty to protect us, it's not their job. Scary huh?

I haven't personally experienced any horrendous run ins with the cops (just a few liars making me pay a fine) but I have known people personally and have heard stories from reputable places that make me completely distrust the police.

papapoochie- just a warning, some people may take your statement about the mentally ill as an offensive statement. I'm not personally offended, but I have spent several years working with mentally ill people and most of them are not a threat to society in any way. I assume that you mean mentally ill people who have criminal tendancies.

[papapoochie]

papapoochie- just a warning, some people may take your statement about the mentally ill as an offensive statement. I'm not personally offended, but I have spent several years working with mentally ill people and most of them are not a threat to society in any way. I assume that you mean mentally ill people who have criminal tendancies.

My apologies folks. I do not want to offend anyone. I intended to imply the criminally insane. Those who are sociopathic and tend to be highly recidivistic with their criminal acts against others. I should have clarified this.

[snowbunny]

This is kind of OT, but reading this thread reminded me of a study done on the moral development of police officers according to Kohlberg's stages ...

The study indicated that the majority of police officers never progress beyond Preconventional Moral Development (Stage 1) -- the stage most among children. This stage is associated with the "I do the right thing because I don't want to be punished." thought ...

[polka123]

gigantic mutant males in uniform well, isn't that downright offensive :irked: :irked: :irked: :irked:
why are you taking issue with the POs as they have to respond to call - valid or not. I think you should be complaining about the ones that keep turning in in.
the POs are just doing their job... you'd be really pissed if you called on someone & they ignored it
& yeah, the bad guys keep getting bigger & more dangerous so the good guys have to keep in shape!

This is kind of OT, but reading this thread reminded me of a study done on the moral development of police officers according to Kohlberg's stages ...

The study indicated that the majority of police officers never progress beyond Preconventional Moral Development (Stage 1) -- the stage most among children. This stage is associated with the "I do the right thing because I don't want to be punished." thought ...

what STUDY where & by whom ? :irked:
you really do not know Law Enforcement.
How you possibly make a blanket statement?
Your area of expertise is in ????

POs/FF/etc deal with things everyday that the AVG person may not see in a lifetime. How dare anyone say majority of police officers never progress beyond Preconventional Moral Development - sounds like some Prof has little idea what goes on :irked:
Let them pick a dead child off the road & see how their Moral Dev. foes or how about the child molester that goes free b/c of some legal glitch. YK the guy is gonna do it again but you're powerless -

Yes, that's why we have lwas that need to be obeyed, society does need boundaries. They go by the law or how else can you do this job. Their job is bounded by do the right thing because I don't want to be punished."

She attributes it to an extremely lax legal system. She said kidnappers and sex offenders would not be let out of jail. The sentences were much harsher this is much of the current problem

PO's get called on kids for a number of reasons - some are valid some are not. It's becomign a trend for POs to be parent kids or come in & play mediator or even WORSE - play boogie man. Do you how many people will see DH in uniform & tell their their kids, "You behave or that Officer is gonna arrest you & take you to jail" :irked: WTF?

now that parent is making a kid be resentful, scared, etc of POs :angry DH will speak up & ask them not to do that.

If one has over-zealous neighbors then that's 1 issue but I can give a ton of horror stories my DH has seen in 21 YEARS of PD work & that people should called & looked the other way so.. is over zealous or being too complacent wrong?
if someone in the 'hood has issue with you, you should deal with them either personally or legally.

[desertpenguin]

ITA polka123! There are good cops and there are bad cops, but unfortunately it seems like most people zone in on the bad cops and assume all cops are that way. My dad's best friend was a good cop and a good man, unfortunately he died of a heart attack within a month of my dad and I moving down here. We miss him dearly. He risked his life every day to keep gangs from getting roots in my hometown!

[snowbunny]

Yes, that's why we have lwas that need to be obeyed, society does need boundaries. They go by the law or how else can you do this job. Their job is bounded by

do the right thing because I don't want to be punished."

You're absolutely right! Their job is bounded by that. And 'that' is preconventional moral development ...

I'm sorry if my referencing the study and stages of moral development upset you.

Certainly there are good cops and bad cops and everyone chooses his or her profession for different reasons ...

[jdedmom]

well, isn't that downright offensive :irked: :irked: :irked: :irked:
why are you taking issue with the POs as they have to respond to call - valid or not. I think you should be complaining about the ones that keep turning in in.
the POs are just doing their job... you'd be really pissed if you called on someone & they ignored it
& yeah, the bad guys keep getting bigger & more dangerous so the good guys have to keep in shape!



what STUDY where & by whom ? :irked:
you really do not know Law Enforcement.
How you possibly make a blanket statement?
Your area of expertise is in ????

POs/FF/etc deal with things everyday that the AVG person may not see in a lifetime. How dare anyone say - sounds like some Prof has little idea what goes on :irked:
Let them pick a dead child off the road & see how their Moral Dev. foes or how about the child molester that goes free b/c of some legal glitch. YK the guy is gonna do it again but you're powerless -

Yes, that's why we have lwas that need to be obeyed, society does need boundaries. They go by the law or how else can you do this job. Their job is bounded by

this is much of the current problem

PO's get called on kids for a number of reasons - some are valid some are not. It's becomign a trend for POs to be parent kids or come in & play mediator or even WORSE - play boogie man. Do you how many people will see DH in uniform & tell their their kids, "You behave or that Officer is gonna arrest you & take you to jail" :irked: WTF?

now that parent is making a kid be resentful, scared, etc of POs :angry DH will speak up & ask them not to do that.

If one has over-zealous neighbors then that's 1 issue but I can give a ton of horror stories my DH has seen in 21 YEARS of PD work & that people should called & looked the other way so.. is over zealous or being too complacent wrong?
if someone in the 'hood has issue with you, you should deal with them either personally or legally.


Posting my first post to say:clap

[NinjaCodingMonkey]

According to ploka123, "the POs are just doing their job."

Ummm, yah, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you there. They aren't doing their jobs. From the sound of it, they are continually harrassing people because of the word of someone else, IOW, not even investigating, just listening to rumors. PO's job is to catch criminals - i.e. murderers and rapists - not harass parents who are watching their kids play.

[Houdini]

Any Dads ever have a run-in with cops over your kids?

Are your kids permitted to play outside your condo/apt unharrassed?

Do you get confronted by police officers over anonymous tips that you're negligent as a parent?

My dw and I have recently had some hair raising events with gigantic mutant males in uniform, the most recent yesterday when I was informed we were "under surveillance" becaus eof neighbor complaints that our kids play outdoors. I wasn't aware that playing 10 ft from one's apt door was illegal, it's not in our CC&R's anywhere. Our kids are fairly mellow when they're outside, that's why I let them do it, esp. when I can see them at all times through the window where I work, facing it.

Anyway, how'd you guys handle any encounters? Or is it just me? I attract their ego-mojo or whatever. I'm kinda freaked out.

OK not a dad and I haven't read any responses yet.

Yes a neighbor called police on me several by a neighbor looking for revenge.

As for the watching them out the window.....it's possible the neighbors think you are neglecting them b/c they can't see you in the window.

I also take offense at the lovely description of the officers.

[Houdini]

Right.....So we should just put our kids in big plastic bubbles....

Eventually our kids are going to have to be outside with out us standing over them. I'm not advocating not watching your children while they are out but I think that the cops being called and being told you are "under surveillance" is ridiculous. I'm sorry...if the neighbors trully felt "genuine concern" for the kids, they wouldn't be calling the cops. They might mention somthing to the mama/papa but calling the cops is extreme.

I personally am not sure what the role of a police officer is... I understand the whole "lock bad people up thing"...but other than that.....

CR

If I constantly see the same children outside without a parent I would call the police.

[Houdini]

As for registered sex offenders in our area, there are a few, and they are several blocks away. Of course, there is always the possibility that there is someone around who hasn't been caught yet, but I still think the cops were overreacting in my case. (I'm paranoid of them, BTW.)

I had a police officer show up in front of my house as well in a similar situation as you. He was driving by and I was running something in the house. The way he explained it to me was the concern of carjacking. Anyway, he was really nice about and nothing came of it.

[Houdini]

According to ploka123, "the POs are just doing their job."

Ummm, yah, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you there. They aren't doing their jobs. From the sound of it, they are continually harrassing people because of the word of someone else, IOW, not even investigating, just listening to rumors. PO's job is to catch criminals - i.e. murderers and rapists - not harass parents who are watching their kids play.

How exactly do you think they investigate a claim??

[NinjaCodingMonkey]

Houdini - "How exactly do you think they investigate a claim??"

How about the traditional way - look up the bloody police record of both the "informant" and the "accused." If they are both clean - talk to both parties. If the "informant" keeps calling and you see no sign of neglect, what else is it but harrassment?

[Houdini]

Houdini - "How exactly do you think they investigate a claim??"

How about the traditional way - look up the bloody police record of both the "informant" and the "accused." If they are both clean - talk to both parties. If the "informant" keeps calling and you see no sign of neglect, what else is it but harrassment?

I have never heard of an officer pulling up a police record for anyone for a complaint call. Even if one comes up not "clean," does it make them a untrustable source of information??

And if there is more than one "informant?"

What if the officer doesn't see anything actually happening, does that mean it isn't???

Lots of activity stops when a police car pulls up, doesn't mean it wasn't happening before they were there?

[Yoshua]

Houdini - "How exactly do you think they investigate a claim??"

How about the traditional way - look up the bloody police record of both the "informant" and the "accused." If they are both clean - talk to both parties. If the "informant" keeps calling and you see no sign of neglect, what else is it but harrassment?


Not kid related.


But


PO's have to investigate every claim as though it is real. What happens when the boy who called wolf gets eaten? It's the PO's fault for not believing them.



I had the cops show up at my house because my neighbors called in noise complaints on us once a week. The Cops were irritated with coming out because they NEW my house was not loud. They stood at the steps trying to hear the smallest peep and NOTHING.


They even said so, but because it is called in, they had to knock on the door and inform me.



/applaud officers for actually doing what they are paid to do.


the people who call in the complaints however? that is another issue.

[Dawn38]

:thumb :yeah:

[pjlioness]

I have a friend who lives on the opposite side of town, and her husband is a police officer. He used to work in our dept., but now works a couple of towns away. She was suprised that the police here had any problem with my kids being out as I described in my original post.

I had a police officer show up in front of my house as well in a similar situation as you. He was driving by and I was running something in the house. The way he explained it to me was the concern of carjacking. Anyway, he was really nice about and nothing came of it.

I'm guessing you meant kidnapping?

I have wondered how likely it is that someone would happen to drive by my house once, see my kids outside, and grab them right then and there. We don't often see people who aren't living in or at least visiting one of the houses here. Our particular (2-2&1/2 block) street doesn't go through on either end (we sometimes get drivers who don't realize that). The configuration of it and the two perpendicular streets is like a "U" with a tail on the lower left side. The middle school is a block away, but only the busses come through here. Parent pick-ups/drop-offs are 99% on the other side of the school - a completely separate street. A car with someone sitting in it for any period of time would stick out like a sore thumb.

It may be that there was concern that my kids would go into the street (ds1 is tiny for his age), but the kids were engaged in doing something both times I described above, and would have been very unlikely to do so. I am less likely to leave the kids outside now in similar situations, but more from not wanting the cops to stop by again.

[Houdini]

I'm guessing you meant kidnapping?

No I meant carjacking.

Which could unknowingly turn into a kidnapping if my kids were in there.

So I guess kidnapping would be a concern as well.

[Canadianmommax3]

well, isn't that downright offensive :irked: :irked: :irked: :irked:
why are you taking issue with the POs as they have to respond to call - valid or not. I think you should be complaining about the ones that keep turning in in.
the POs are just doing their job... you'd be really pissed if you called on someone & they ignored it
& yeah, the bad guys keep getting bigger & more dangerous so the good guys have to keep in shape!



what STUDY where & by whom ? :irked:
you really do not know Law Enforcement.
How you possibly make a blanket statement?
Your area of expertise is in ????

POs/FF/etc deal with things everyday that the AVG person may not see in a lifetime. How dare anyone say - sounds like some Prof has little idea what goes on :irked:
Let them pick a dead child off the road & see how their Moral Dev. foes or how about the child molester that goes free b/c of some legal glitch. YK the guy is gonna do it again but you're powerless -

Yes, that's why we have lwas that need to be obeyed, society does need boundaries. They go by the law or how else can you do this job. Their job is bounded by

this is much of the current problem

PO's get called on kids for a number of reasons - some are valid some are not. It's becomign a trend for POs to be parent kids or come in & play mediator or even WORSE - play boogie man. Do you how many people will see DH in uniform & tell their their kids, "You behave or that Officer is gonna arrest you & take you to jail" :irked: WTF?

now that parent is making a kid be resentful, scared, etc of POs :angry DH will speak up & ask them not to do that.

If one has over-zealous neighbors then that's 1 issue but I can give a ton of horror stories my DH has seen in 21 YEARS of PD work & that people should called & looked the other way so.. is over zealous or being too complacent wrong?
if someone in the 'hood has issue with you, you should deal with them either personally or legally.

:thumb

[bellona]

I live in a small town, but the police make the rounds in my neighborhood a couple of times a day :( . It's out of necessity, but they're never driving through when anything bad is going on.

My kids only play right in our backyard or RIGHT in front of our house...and I keep the windows open so I can hear and watch them through the windows if I'm not out with them. If I am, I usually sit and watch them in a larger area, as long as there are no other kids with them. In that case I'm with them all the time. But the other parents in my neighborhood allow their SMALL children to play outside completely unsupervised...I'm talking 2 and 3 year olds roaming the neighborhood, walking out of it and playing in the surrounding woods with their parents completely oblivious to where they are or why it might be a good idea to watch them. Yet, none of them have ever gotten bothered by the police, except when their very small or autistic children actually get out of the neighborhood and are found roaming the streets of the world beyond...and then the police just very nicely return them home and that's the end of it. However, since my kids play right where the police can see them when they are up here, I have noticed several times that the police have stopped and a couple of times tried to engage my children in conversation, until I stepped where they could see me. They have told me they thought they were playing out alone. I haven't been rude to them at all, but it annoys me that they bother with my kids repeatedly even though they know that I'm watching them, but all these other - and many times younger - children are playing outside alone all the time with no intervention.

[AladdinsLamp]

As kids, my brother and I freely played all over the neighborhood without my mom outside watching us. We lived in MUCH worse neighborhoods then than I do now. I think any parent who let's their child play in a yard where they are easy targets for predators are being naive. And I would TOTALLY call the cops. Plese don't feel like they are harassing you - they aren't. THEY are the ones who know about the crime in the city. THEY are the ones who have to see and touch and smell those crimes every day.

I have a friend whose sister is a sexual assualt detective on our local police force. There are a lot of crimes that are not reported in the news. A LOT.

Please keep your kids inside unless you can be out there with them, or they are in a fenced back yard and you can see them through a window.

Yeah, you are pissed about it but stop and think. They are there because of your kids safety. Step outside of it and think. These policemen are trying to keep YOUR kids safe, because you were being naive about the reality that we live in today. You should THANK THEM.

Allie

[itsang]

However, since my kids play right where the police can see them when they are up here, I have noticed several times that the police have stopped and a couple of times tried to engage my children in conversation, until I stepped where they could see me. They have told me they thought they were playing out alone.

I have a huge problem with police stopping to "check on" kids playing in their own yards, even if it is a front yard that is visible from the street. I think it's unnecessarily nosy of them to do so & is very assumptious of them to think that the kids aren't being supervised.

If there's been no complaint or suspicious/criminal circumstances, I see NO reason for them to even speak to a child playing in their own yard. I truly feel that just because someone is a po is not a reason to have blind-respect for them, trust them or welcome their presence or inquisitiveness.

[angelpie545]

I have a huge problem with police stopping to "check on" kids playing in their own yards, even if it is a front yard that is visible from the street. I think it's unnecessarily nosy of them to do so & is very assumptious of them to think that the kids aren't being supervised.

If there's been no complaint or suspicious/criminal circumstances, I see NO reason for them to even speak to a child playing in their own yard. I truly feel that just because someone is a po is not a reason to have blind-respect for them, trust them or welcome their presence or inquisitiveness.

I'm not a dad..but I saw this thread and had to say that I agree. Anyone who's every watched an episode of COPS should know what I'm talking about. I am very weary of police officers. In today's world, everything is taken to the extreme and police burtality is rampant. Cops get off all the time from stuff simply because they are cops. It's irritating to me. I appreciate law enforcement, and I do respect them, but I expect the same respect from them, and if they commit a crime or abuse their powers, I expect that they be punished the same as anyone else. I don't think that cops should have immunity from all lawsuits either, as there are plenty of times that I can think of that cops have shot and killed someone unecessarily and should have been prosecuted and sued, but nothing every happened because the law makes it so hard.

[mamabadger]

I must admit I'm a little surprised at the general agreement that children should never be outside playing without an adult present. Don't your kids go out and ride their bikes or skateboards by themselves, go skating, walk to the library, or whatever? Do they never have any unsupervised play time except when they're in their own bedroom?
Maybe it's just because I'm in Canada, where the lax legal system and wussy police force (by U.S. standards) mysteriously coincides with a much lower rate of violent crime :p but that seems excessive to me. I see neighbourhood kids walking or playing outside all the time, without their parents being present, and they certainly aren't stopped and questioned by police constables over it!

[changa]

I think that kids playing outside with a little passive supervision (an open window) is fine at a certain age, probably around 10. Especially if there's more than one, and they know about streets and strangers etc.

I also think that cops stopping and talking to them in a non-threatening manner is absolutely appropriate. That's why we pay their salaries! I haven't had the negative experiences with cops that most of you have, perhaps because I look like a law abiding citizen. :) Airlines are another story, I'm convinced a red flag goes up on registered democrats and that's why I get the lower-your-pants-a-bit-so-we-can-check-for-weapons-in-your-belly-button routine. But that's for another thread. :D

If a cop stopped to talk to my child, I'd make my presence known and ask him to tell my son how he can become a police officer to when he grows up. He wants to talk to my kid, he can entertain us for a while! Then again, I'm a little blasé, since my sun is only 6 months old, and we don't leave him in a room by himself, let alone outdoors. If a cop scared my kid, that'd be another story altogether.

I have had a couple incidents driving around with my wife, because we are a mixed couple and that's frowned upon in our part of Southern California. However cops are just people, they are no more or less open minded than the society they are hired in.

[WinterBaby]

Maybe it's just because I'm in Canada, where the lax legal system and wussy police force (by U.S. standards) mysteriously coincides with a much lower rate of violent crime :p but that seems excessive to me. I see neighbourhood kids walking or playing outside all the time, without their parents being present, and they certainly aren't stopped and questioned by police constables over it!

Really, stranger abduction is extremely rare in the US too. Violent crime is lower than it was 30 years ago. Not like I have the real stats, but I rather suspect my daughter is more likely to be bitten by a poisonous snake in our backyard than abducted. But the one thing we have an overwhelming amount of in the US is fear. Perhaps we can start exporting it to Canada. :shrug

[AladdinsLamp]

Wow, I think it is weird that so many think it is okay for children to be out in a front yard WITHOUT a parent out there. Not a single one of my friends - whose kids range in age from 13 yrs down to 6 mo EVER let their kids play in the front yard without a parent RIGHT there. And these are people spread all across my state, not just in my city or neighborhood.

Yeah, it was safe for me to do that as a kid (although dh says it wasn't safe then either, but people didn't realize it) but not now at all. As a preteen and teenage I lived in Europe and my younger brother and I took streetcars, buses, subways all over our city without any fear. But that was 20 years ago too, and US-type-random-crimes-against-strangers has been successfully exported to Europe so my ds won't be going all over London by himself at 12 like I did.

Sorry, I think you all are naive. Yeah, the chances are low that someone will swipe your child from your front stoop, but that won't be much consolation if it were your child who IS stolen. ESPECIALLY since you know how to prevent it. Seriously, watching out the window? Give me a break, they would be gone before you got out your front door.

Allie

[Houdini]

Wow, I think it is weird that so many think it is okay for children to be out in a front yard WITHOUT a parent out there. Not a single one of my friends - whose kids range in age from 13 yrs down to 6 mo EVER let their kids play in the front yard without a parent RIGHT there. And these are people spread all across my state, not just in my city or neighborhood.

Yeah, it was safe for me to do that as a kid (although dh says it wasn't safe then either, but people didn't realize it) but not now at all. As a preteen and teenage I lived in Europe and my younger brother and I took streetcars, buses, subways all over our city without any fear. But that was 20 years ago too, and US-type-random-crimes-against-strangers has been successfully exported to Europe so my ds won't be going all over London by himself at 12 like I did.

Sorry, I think you all are naive. Yeah, the chances are low that someone will swipe your child from your front stoop, but that won't be much consolation if it were your child who IS stolen. ESPECIALLY since you know how to prevent it. Seriously, watching out the window? Give me a break, they would be gone before you got out your front door.

Allie

:thumb

My kids are 11, 9, 8, 5. We just in the last year allow our older kids to be outside in our backyard without supervision. They are only allowed out as a group and must stay together. I still check frequently out the window to ensure they are doing fine. If they are in the front yard we are typically out with them. We live in a residential area. My youngest is occassionally allowed out with the older kids, but I usually watch from the window with him and they stay in the backyard. The only exception we have made is too allow our daughter to walk the dogs up and down the sidewalk. That makes me nervous enough, but I am lucky enough to live in an area where few cars that don't live on our street travel and all the neighbors are keening aware of unfamiliar cars showing up.

[Houdini]

Anyone who's every watched an episode of COPS should know what I'm talking about.

I really tried to ignore this comment, but after several days I can't.

Do you honestly think this gives an accurate portrayal of what police officers go through on a daily basis? This is a small sample made for a television show.

It really is frightening if you base your opinions of the police from a television show.

[pjlioness]

I really tried to ignore this comment, but after several days I can't.

Do you honestly think this gives an accurate portrayal of what police officers go through on a daily basis? This is a small sample made for a television show.

It really is frightening if you base your opinions of the police from a television show.

Thank you for that. I'm not sure I would have said it as well. I would only add/emphasize that we might also wish to remember that sensational sells better than the mundane everyday on shows like this.

[changa]

...it was safe for me to do that as a kid ... that was 20 years ago too ...by himself at 12 like I did...I think you all are naive.You keep implying that it is more dangerous out there now than it used to be, but it's not. The world is, if anything, slightly less violent than it was then. Of course there's always dangers, but it's not sufficiently dangerous out there to advocate keeping children in little isolation bubbles. That's far more damaging IMHO.

[Houdini]

The world is, if anything, slightly less violent than it was then.

http://www.kidsfightingchance.com/statistics.html


http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-mc-mcstatistics.htm

"The number of missing persons reported to law enforcement has increased from 154, 341 in 1982 to 876,213 in 2000. That is an increase of 468%."


http://www.eyesofamerica.org/US_abduction_kidnapping_statistics.htm


http://www.eyesofamerica.org/US_abduction_kidnapping_statistics.htm

And these are just the kidnapping statistics.

[changa]

There was a dramatic increase between 1998 and 2000, admittedly. But according to the USA Today, "sexual assaults against adolescents ages 12 to 17 plunged 79% from 1993 through 2003."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-24-sex-crimes-cover_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA
And according to kidsfightingchance.com, kids have a 1.1% chance of being reported missing, and about 10% of those are kidnappings. That's a 0.11% chance of my kid being grabbed from my yard.
http://www.kidsfightingchance.com/statistics.html

Besides which, strangers account for some 10% of sexual assault, with the other 90% being friends and family. So playing in the house is more of a risk than playing outdoors.

[Houdini]

There was a dramatic increase between 1998 and 2000, admittedly. But according to the USA Today, "sexual assaults against adolescents ages 12 to 17 plunged 79% from 1993 through 2003."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-24-sex-crimes-cover_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

"And only a tiny fraction of abuse cases end in murder, says David Finkelhor, director of Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire. Of the 60,000 to 70,000 arrests each year for sex crimes against children, he says about 40 to 50 involve homicide."


I was initially just looking at kidnappings, but the fact that adolescent sexual assaut has decreased 79% is great. There are still a huge number of arrests each year for sex crimes (see above). My kids are not quite in the adolescent age category as of yet.

I think it is playing with fire to risk anything happening to my children as I am the one who is to protect them from danger. I assure you my children are not placed in a "little isolation bubble." The are protected from the dangers of today's society.

[angelpie545]

I really tried to ignore this comment, but after several days I can't.

Do you honestly think this gives an accurate portrayal of what police officers go through on a daily basis? This is a small sample made for a television show.

It really is frightening if you base your opinions of the police from a television show.

I understand that those shows are edited, but there are edited to make police seem like they are the ultimate power, and there is no questioning it. These shows are edited like that purposely, and then shown to the public, so the public then percevies that they should never question police. It's a psychological thing, putting police very high in the threshold of power. That is what I don't like. I have seen police officers behave horrifically irrationally on COPS, and I have seen them treat human beings like rag dolls, over extert their authority, and don't think for a second that I don't think that doesn't happen off TV, and I know for a fact it does. However, the public doesn't think to question it, because we have been told for so long that it's right and okay to treat other human beings like garbage because you are a cop.

That said, I know there are some policemen and women who do wonderful things, and who are excellent officers, and I do respect and commend them. My problem is that police have too much power, and not enough regulation. Even when officers commit crimes, they are not punished anywhere near as severely as citizens are. They are immune from lawsuits even when they do wrong, and often don't have to answer for what they did to their victims. There are so many policies and procedures put in place by police officers that are specifically made to make an individual feel like less of a person, and to make them feel lower than the officer who is questioning them. It's a very punitive system. And we wonder why there is so much violence towards cops?

I understand that it's a two way street, and officers are human too. However, part of the job is being professional and showing a better example. If you can't do that, don't be a cop. I no, for the record, I don't base what I think of police on TV. I base it on real life experiences, and the treatment of friends and loved ones. I'm sorry that some people find that offensive.

[AladdinsLamp]

You keep implying that it is more dangerous out there now than it used to be, but it's not. The world is, if anything, slightly less violent than it was then. Of course there's always dangers, but it's not sufficiently dangerous out there to advocate keeping children in little isolation bubbles. That's far more damaging IMHO.

I don't think being outside in the front yard with my children while they play is keeping them in an isolation bubble. I guess I don't really get your viewpoint that parents being WITH their children WHILE they play in a vulnerable place is keeping them in an isolation bubble.

Heck, I don't let my dogs play in my front yard alone because in this part of the country there is a big risk of them getting puppy-napped and put in dog fighting rings (which is a life way worse than just getting hit by a car.) I call that being a responsible dog-owner. I don't think my dogs live in an isolation bubble either.

Allie

[alisaterry]

I emailed this thread to my husband and hope he chimes in since this was his report, but he recently did research on the effectiveness of the Amber Alert, which led to a study of child obductions in general. The VAST majority of child abductions are done by family members and close friends. "Stranger Danger" is actually rare, it just gets the most press.

As for police harassment, police officers very frequently abuse their powers, but you find bad apples in every profression. It's just very scary when that bad apple has the power to ruin your life. It is such a blessing when you have one who does their job because they want to serve and protect, and not simply have authority! I've known some very valiant police officers in my life, and to them I am grateful for their sacrifice and service.

As for me, I would talk to a parent before reporting them to the police.

Gotta go, cranky baby....

[Houdini]

They are immune from lawsuits even when they do wrong, and often don't have to answer for what they did to their victims.

They are not immune from lawsuits.

http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOConnor/205/205lect12.htm


There are so many policies and procedures put in place by police officers that are specifically made to make an individual feel like less of a person, and to make them feel lower than the officer who is questioning them.

The officers do not put the policies and procedures in place, the department and/or state does. The officers have to follow the procedures/policies. There are specific techniques utilized by officers when questioning a person.

I'm sorry that some people find that offensive.

I personally don't find it offensive at all. You are basing your perception off of experiences the same as everyone tends to do. :thumb

[bellona]

Maybe I didn't read the thread thoroughly, but is it clear the age of the kids outside alone? My step daughter goes outside alone all the time...but she's 18 :lol . My kids are too young to be completely without supervision, but my 6.5yo is responsible, we live in a small town and we have gone over stranger safety...and the fact that he needs to have permission before leaving with anyone...even a family member. There is also a rule that if anyone else comes out while he's out there he must tell me. And he's only allowed in our very small backyard or where I can see him from the kitchen window if he's by himself...and I keep the windows open in addition to checking on him every 30 seconds. I don't isolate them, nor do I feel I am naive about the danger present.

If I lived in NYC, I would not let him step foot outside our home without me by his side. If we lived in our nearby 'city' (which is a joke) I would not let him outside with out me. If we lived on Main street of our little town I would not let him go without me. I don't see the difference between me sitting on the porch watching him play and me standing 2 feet back, behind my open kitchen window folding laundry while I watch him play :shrug

And, ftr, I don't think that most parents watch their kids well outside. At least not where I live. I know of a number of 6yos that are allowed to walk across town by themselves. I see unsupervised kids at the playground all the time that are about 6 and up. I see many toddlers and preschooler playing in their yards without a parent in sight.

[Houdini]

I don't see the difference between me sitting on the porch watching him play and me standing 2 feet back, behind my open kitchen window folding laundry while I watch him play :shrug

I think the point the other poster was trying to make about inside v outside with your child was the opportunity for someone to pull your child into a vehicle. If you are outside, in view, with your child the person probably won't even attempt to take the child. If you are inside, even looking out a window, then the person sees an open chance and has a window of opportunity to take the child while you are getting to the door to go outside.


And, ftr, I don't think that most parents watch their kids well outside. At least not where I live. I know of a number of 6yos that are allowed to walk across town by themselves. I see unsupervised kids at the playground all the time that are about 6 and up. I see many toddlers and preschooler playing in their yards without a parent in sight.

The sad thing is if someone is watching these parks/yards they are gathering the information they need for the timing to take one of these children. I cannot fathom sending my child at those ages anywhere or have them playing in the yard alone. It really isn't all about someone taking the child. What if an injury occured at the park? How would the parent even be contacted? The toddler/preschooler could be injured as well. What if a dog came from another yard and attacked one of these kids? There are all kinds of dangers that are around.

[a_work_in_progress]

I have debated whether or not to post. I have a fear of police officers. I mean EXTREME fear. This is not a foundless fear. There are many reasons for this.

I have been attacked by police officers, unneccessarily on at least two occasions (once landing me in the hospital).

Another time, I was the victim of an attack, and somebody heard my screams, called 911, and when the police officer showed up, he helped hold ME down!!! Then, he put me in cuffs because I was being "irrational" screaming my head off (uh... yeah, I was just attacked!!!!). He of course let me go after getting me away from the scene of the attack. He never arrested my attackers.

I have been yelled at by police officers for requesting information on Level 3 Sex Offenders in my community.

I once had to call the police because a guy strung out on crack broke into a home I was babysitting at. He had forgotten he didn't live there anymore. He threatened me with a weapon, and I called 9-1-1. When the cops pulled up out front, the guy ran out the door and the police officers chased him. I left the door open, didn't go to the doorway, waiting for the police officers to show up. They never caught the guy, and they never came back to help me.

The police were called numerous times during vicioius attacks on my person by family members. They never came out to help me. One time, while I was on the phone with 9-1-1, a family member was holding a knife to my throat. I begged and pleaded for the police to come help me. They never answered the call.


Thing is, my experiences with the police are not unique in the places I've lived. A family member of mine is a police officer, and I have read his logs. He admits to racism, unneccessary force/violence, prejudices, etc. This is not just a few random police officers on the force. This is EVERYBODY. We'd be lucky if there was one good cop in the bunch.

In the next town over, a woman turned up missing (the third in 10 years), and is presumed dead. All the evidence points towards a police officer being responsible. He has not been charged in her disappearance or murder, and has served no time.

There's been police officers (actually, every single one called regarding this) who refused to file a complaint when a certain person was molesting all the children in the neighborhood. I'd have to call the police at least once a week when another kid was molested, and yet the police did NOTHING. The molester is still on the loose, victimizing children. I realize that probably has more to do with the laws than the police officers, since the child molester was just a child himself (12-13, brutally sexually molesting children ages 4-13). But they, or CPS should have investigated the home this child was coming from, since it was obvious there was sexual abuse going on in that household, and they'd been found guilty of it before.

Police investigating neighbor disputes is nothing. They show up, they tell everybody to knock it off, and they leave... usually. It heightens animosity between neighbors. That's not on the police officer, though. There's a lot better reasons to be scared of police and carry animosity towards them.


I no longer call the police in instances where somebody should be arrested. I turn away and try to ignore what I see, because I know if I call the police things will get ugly and the person breaking the law probably won't go to jail, and I'll end up getting hurt either by the person who I called the cops on, or the cops themselves.

[Houdini]

Thing is, my experiences with the police are not unique in the places I've lived. A family member of mine is a police officer, and I have read his logs. He admits to racism, unneccessary force/violence, prejudices, etc. This is not just a few random police officers on the force. This is EVERYBODY. We'd be lucky if there was one good cop in the bunch.


I am sorry to hear about all your negative experiences with police officers. I can understand your fear and distrust of them based on your experiences. It sounds as though the police force in your area as major issues from the top down. The reason all the bad cops seem to gravitate to that particular force is most likely due to the lack of discipline; they know they will get away with the behavior. I want to assure the number of good cops outweigh the number of bad cops in almost every precinct. I am in law enforcement and I am in contact with police officers. While there are bad apples so to speak, it is up to the higher ups to discipline the officers in question.

[mylilprincess]

I must admit I'm a little surprised at the general agreement that children should never be outside playing without an adult present. Don't your kids go out and ride their bikes or skateboards by themselves, go skating, walk to the library, or whatever? Do they never have any unsupervised play time except when they're in their own bedroom?
Maybe it's just because I'm in Canada, where the lax legal system and wussy police force (by U.S. standards) mysteriously coincides with a much lower rate of violent crime :p but that seems excessive to me. I see neighbourhood kids walking or playing outside all the time, without their parents being present, and they certainly aren't stopped and questioned by police constables over it!


I am in Canada too and I must disagree with you. I have seen MANY times cops stop and ask children who are unsupervised where their parents are. I also AGREE VERY MUCH that children should not be left outside alone. I know Canada is safe in comparison to the states but there are still far to many sex offenders and child molesters for me to feel it is safe for my children to be left outside for any period of time w/o me. I know this is a sad thing to say and I realize my kids will feel over protected but they will NOT be kidnapped or molested and that is way more important than anything else.

Stacy

[prettypixels]

My brother is a cop and has been for years... he LOVES the show Cops and has never lead me to believe it is anything but accurate.

BTW, he is a big bully and has been all his life; and gets to be an even bigger bully as a cop... yes he loves it! I am not, btw, saying he is a bad cop... actually I think he's a good cop... so far as that goes.

Kids are more likely to be harmed, assaulted, molested, and kidnapped by their own family members than by any random stranger. Just something for people to keep in mind.

[Herausgeber]

I wonder what the relationship is between childhood obesity and kids no longer being allowed to play outside their homes without parental supervision. I know lots of "worried" parents who think it's much "safer" for junior to sit in front of an Xbox all day scarfing down junk food than to be out in the big, scary street. I guess it depends on your idea of relative danger.

I had hoped to be able to fight this unhealthy trend by letting my soon-to-be-born child play outside when she gets older, like I did as a kid, except that apparantly (1) there won't be anyone else out there for her to play with and (2) if I do let her outside, someone will call the cops on me.

[choli]

Wow, I think it is weird that so many think it is okay for children to be out in a front yard WITHOUT a parent out there. Not a single one of my friends - whose kids range in age from 13 yrs down to 6 mo EVER let their kids play in the front yard without a parent RIGHT there. And these are people spread all across my state, not just in my city or neighborhood.

Yeah, it was safe for me to do that as a kid (although dh says it wasn't safe then either, but people didn't realize it) but not now at all. As a preteen and teenage I lived in Europe and my younger brother and I took streetcars, buses, subways all over our city without any fear. But that was 20 years ago too, and US-type-random-crimes-against-strangers has been successfully exported to Europe so my ds won't be going all over London by himself at 12 like I did.

Sorry, I think you all are naive. Yeah, the chances are low that someone will swipe your child from your front stoop, but that won't be much consolation if it were your child who IS stolen. ESPECIALLY since you know how to prevent it. Seriously, watching out the window? Give me a break, they would be gone before you got out your front door.

Allie

Nope, not naive, realistic. I genuinely pity the children of your friends. Anyone who thinks a 13 yr old is too young to play outside without supervision, in her own back yard no less, has really bought into the culture of fear. When will the 13yr old miraculously be able to supervise herself? When she goes to college? Or are your friends the parents we read about that call their college age kids several times a day because they can't believe kids can survive without them?

[angelpie545]

I have debated whether or not to post. I have a fear of police officers. I mean EXTREME fear. This is not a foundless fear. There are many reasons for this.

I have been attacked by police officers, unneccessarily on at least two occasions (once landing me in the hospital).

Another time, I was the victim of an attack, and somebody heard my screams, called 911, and when the police officer showed up, he helped hold ME down!!! Then, he put me in cuffs because I was being "irrational" screaming my head off (uh... yeah, I was just attacked!!!!). He of course let me go after getting me away from the scene of the attack. He never arrested my attackers.

I have been yelled at by police officers for requesting information on Level 3 Sex Offenders in my community.

I once had to call the police because a guy strung out on crack broke into a home I was babysitting at. He had forgotten he didn't live there anymore. He threatened me with a weapon, and I called 9-1-1. When the cops pulled up out front, the guy ran out the door and the police officers chased him. I left the door open, didn't go to the doorway, waiting for the police officers to show up. They never caught the guy, and they never came back to help me.

The police were called numerous times during vicioius attacks on my person by family members. They never came out to help me. One time, while I was on the phone with 9-1-1, a family member was holding a knife to my throat. I begged and pleaded for the police to come help me. They never answered the call.


Thing is, my experiences with the police are not unique in the places I've lived. A family member of mine is a police officer, and I have read his logs. He admits to racism, unneccessary force/violence, prejudices, etc. This is not just a few random police officers on the force. This is EVERYBODY. We'd be lucky if there was one good cop in the bunch.

In the next town over, a woman turned up missing (the third in 10 years), and is presumed dead. All the evidence points towards a police officer being responsible. He has not been charged in her disappearance or murder, and has served no time.

There's been police officers (actually, every single one called regarding this) who refused to file a complaint when a certain person was molesting all the children in the neighborhood. I'd have to call the police at least once a week when another kid was molested, and yet the police did NOTHING. The molester is still on the loose, victimizing children. I realize that probably has more to do with the laws than the police officers, since the child molester was just a child himself (12-13, brutally sexually molesting children ages 4-13). But they, or CPS should have investigated the home this child was coming from, since it was obvious there was sexual abuse going on in that household, and they'd been found guilty of it before.

Police investigating neighbor disputes is nothing. They show up, they tell everybody to knock it off, and they leave... usually. It heightens animosity between neighbors. That's not on the police officer, though. There's a lot better reasons to be scared of police and carry animosity towards them.


I no longer call the police in instances where somebody should be arrested. I turn away and try to ignore what I see, because I know if I call the police things will get ugly and the person breaking the law probably won't go to jail, and I'll end up getting hurt either by the person who I called the cops on, or the cops themselves.

This, unforunately occurs too often. When police know that there will be little or not discipline, they behave irrationally and horrificlly, and choose who they want to help or who they don't. Absolutely power absolutely corrupts. In my opinion, a lot of cops are just big bullies who want to assert their power. Why the heck else would they pile on suspects who are willing to give up, or make people lie on the ground when they have their hands in the air? Policy or procedure, it's a lot of garbage and it's all psychology to make the policemen seen higher or above others. I'm not saying that there aren't situations where those techniques are needed, but all too often they aren't and people sustain injuries or are verbally abused and where is the discipline? Still looking for it! I've seen cops assault people and injure people then congratulate each other on a "job well done" or "good bust". It's absolutely pitiful in my eyes. Cops are suppoused to uphold the law, not break it. You may argue that cops are only human, and it's true, but that doesn't mean that we can't hold them to the same standards that everyone else is held to.

I know that there are good cops out there, and I know there are some that really want to make a difference, and I respect and hold in high esteem every officer that takes his job that seriously. What I want is more accountibility, more discipline, and less punitive policy and procedures. I don't think that as an freedom loving, law abiding citizen that is too much to ask.

[sweetirishCT]

i have read every post on this thread... And just my 2 cents: My dad was a cop, and an EMT, and a firefighter.... And he is a good man, now retired from all of the above, and his friends were good men... Only one of them ever got caught misbehaving, speeding actually, and there was a HUGE scandal because the fellow cop who pulled him over let him off... So, yes, they do get caught.. And there were reprocussions... (sp?) I think he was demoted, and definitely re-assigned...
I wonder what the relationship is between childhood obesity and kids no longer being allowed to play outside their homes without parental supervision. I know lots of "worried" parents who think it's much "safer" for junior to sit in front of an Xbox all day scarfing down junk food than to be out in the big, scary street. I guess it depends on your idea of relative danger.

I had hoped to be able to fight this unhealthy trend by letting my soon-to-be-born child play outside when she gets older, like I did as a kid, except that apparantly (1) there won't be anyone else out there for her to play with and (2) if I do let her outside, someone will call the cops on me.

hmm.. think we will have to meet up covertly, behind a safe fence to let our children play together away from the maybe well-meaning nosey neighbors...:lol

I agree, the original poster needs to take up the prob with the neighbors, not the officers. These officers are dads too, and take concerns regarding children VERY seriously... My dad has only now started letting me in on some of the horrors he encountered while on the job, involving kids that is... (And I am all grown up-29 yrs old)... maybe his scare tactic to make sure I am keeping his little grandbaby safe...

[Houdini]

I wonder what the relationship is between childhood obesity and kids no longer being allowed to play outside their homes without parental supervision. I know lots of "worried" parents who think it's much "safer" for junior to sit in front of an Xbox all day scarfing down junk food than to be out in the big, scary street. I guess it depends on your idea of relative danger.

I agree there are parents that allow their children to put the child in front of a game system; however, I don't think it has much to do with being "safer." The game systems/television become a babysitter so the parent doesn't have to deal with the child. I really don't see where this has anything to do with playing outside alone.


I had hoped to be able to fight this unhealthy trend by letting my soon-to-be-born child play outside when she gets older, like I did as a kid, except that apparantly (1) there won't be anyone else out there for her to play with and (2) if I do let her outside, someone will call the cops on me.

Congrats on fighting this unhealthy trend with your children. I definately think that children need to be outside (supervised). My children play outside a ton during the day mixed with game time and television time. It's all about balance. As far as there being noone else outside, I guess that depends on where you live. There are always kids outside playing in my neighborhood although the usually wait until early evening. As far as someone calling the police, if the shoe fits and you are neglecting you parental responsibilities then at least you are ready for the visit from the officers.:thumb

[BennyPai]

At the age of 11, in a tiny town outside of Fairfield, ME (Vassalboro) I was chased by two men in a pickup truck.
I was less than a quarter mile from my apartment building, walking home with my 15-yr-old neighbor (who ran off without me, BTW)from a trip to the convenience store.
Luckily, I was able to escape.
What I wouldn't have given to see a police officer that evening. My father went out with our neighbor to look for the men. He was too leary of the police to report the incident, (Not because he didn't trust POs - he worried about getting in trouble for things he was involved in)and as far as I know these people are still at large.:(

[choli]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17415786%26method=full%26siteid=94762% 26headline=why%2dkids%2dare%2dsafer%2dtoday%2dthan %2d30yrs%2dago-name_page.html

Interesting article in an English newspaper today says that kids are actually safer today than 30 years ago. Some snippets:

"Ironically, this hyper-attentive-ness is actually having a damaging effect on our children."

"But too many kids are now starting secondary school having never walked to classes on their own.For this reason, many 11 and 12-year-olds are believed to have the pedestrian skills of a six-year-old in the 70s."

"HEATHER Welford, a childcare expert and writer based in Newcastle, agrees that too many kids aren't able to look after themselves.

She says: "Parents do have to use their common sense when it comes to safety. But, generally, I don't think they're giving kids enough chance to be streetwise. They can't be streetwise unless they let them be independent."

[alisaterry]

I was taking a public bus by myself to meet friends at the mall when I was 12. I think that by the time a child is going to school they are fairly capable of playing outside with intermittent supervision, but I would want him playing with friends, not alone, and I would want a window open so I could at least hear him if he needed me. The children in my neighborhood frequently play outside without many adults around, but I live in a largely Mormon neighborhood in a smallish town, and we have a community philosophy about looking out for each other's kids. Also, the police chief lives two doors from me, so maybe that makes us all feel better!

[hottmama]

I have also had a lot of negative interactions with cops. I don't think that authority is good for anyone, well-intentioned or not.
I let my 3.5 yr. old play in the backyard alone (we leave the door open and I can hear him talking). People who won't let a 13 yr. old outside alone are doing that child a lot of harm, IMO. THIRTEEN!?!? I was riding my bike to school (about a mile) at 6 with my neighbors (both boys, 1 and 3 years older than I). I don't believe that the world is more dangerous today than it was 16 years ago. Everything I have read says that violent crime is down, and that kidnapping is very rare.
If some cop said anything to my kid in my yard, I would expect them not to answer. I don't need nosy men with GEDs and guns harassing my children. Let alone "keeping them safe."

[Storm Bride]

I am in Canada too and I must disagree with you. I have seen MANY times cops stop and ask children who are unsupervised where their parents are. I also AGREE VERY MUCH that children should not be left outside alone. I know Canada is safe in comparison to the states but there are still far to many sex offenders and child molesters for me to feel it is safe for my children to be left outside for any period of time w/o me. I know this is a sad thing to say and I realize my kids will feel over protected but they will NOT be kidnapped or molested and that is way more important than anything else.

I was outside all the time as a child - not alone, but with my younger sister. We were catching buses to movies with another friend by the time I was about 8 or 9. We went swimming without a parent, and caught the bus home, etc.

I was molested...repeatedly by a relative, in that relative's home...and repeatedly by the janitor at my elementary school. I was never threatened or molested while I was outside - not even once. Keeping kids inside doesn't protect them unless you're always there.

[Storm Bride]

"The number of missing persons reported to law enforcement has increased from 154, 341 in 1982 to 876,213 in 2000. That is an increase of 468%."

I don't have time to check the links right now. Do any of the statistics address how many of the missing persons are kidnapped by non-custodial parents? That problem is much bigger than it used to be.

[Herausgeber]

Is that true, Storm Bride?

[Houdini]

I don't have time to check the links right now. Do any of the statistics address how many of the missing persons are kidnapped by non-custodial parents? That problem is much bigger than it used to be.

It doesn't break state the stats from in years past, but here is a breakdown.

http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-mc-mcstatistics.htm[/url]


Based on the identity of the perpetrator, there are three distinct types of kidnapping: kidnapping by a relative of the victim or "family kidnapping" (49 percent), kidnapping by an acquaintance of the victim or "acquaintance kidnapping" (27 percent), and kidnapping by a stranger to the victim or "stranger kidnapping" (24 percent).

Family kidnapping is committed primarily by parents, involves a larger percentage of female perpetrators (43 percent) than other types of kidnapping offenses, occurs more frequently to children under 6, equally victimizes juveniles of both sexes, and most often originates in the home.

[alisaterry]

Family kidnapping is committed primarily by parents, involves a larger percentage of female perpetrators (43 percent) than other types of kidnapping offenses, occurs more frequently to children under 6, equally victimizes juveniles of both sexes, and most often originates in the home.

A high number of mothers "kidnap" their children to escape abusive husbands.

[Storm Bride]

Is that true, Storm Bride?
Is what true? About being molested as a child?

Yes - My grandfather experienced a catastrophic brain hemmoraghe when I was a baby, and nobody realized that one thing the brain damage did was to completely eradicate his grasp on right and wrong in certain ways, particularly sexual. The abuse was eventually discovered by my mom (my grandmother had been bribing us with candy to stay quiet - for several years) and the situation was dealt with.

The janitor (about 50-55, I'd guess) just seemed to have a real thing for girls who were barely pubescent...

[sevenkids]

My whole neighborhood is filled with kids playing outside, they play stickball and jump-rope in the street, they meet at the park, they walk to and from football and cheerleading practice. My kids have been in just about every house (with kids) on the block, and every kid on the block has been in mine. No one would call the police on a parent who's kids were playing outside. We have what is called a "community" in our little neck of the 'hood. We all know each other, we know which kid belongs to which house and parents, and we all would rather go to the parents in person if something needed to be sorted out. If we think someone's kids are going hungry, someone from one of the many churches will be bringing a food basket by on Saturday morning. If someone's kids are wearing the same dirty clothes day in and day out, someone will be bringing a bag full of clothes and dropping it on the doorstep. Not to say the police or other authorities are never called, but it's usually a last resort for serious situations. People are more inclined to think someone's having a rough time and needs help rather than, "Call CPS!"

[fourlittlebirds]

I have two friends who are police officers, and they are fine human beings as far as everything I know about them. But man, I have not had good luck with dealing with police officers myself. They always have that power trip thing going on. :(

The last time was the worst. I was going over the speed limit and my license was expired (2 weeks, I was eight months pregnant and with everything that was going on in preparing for the birth I had managed to forget to renew, oops.) The officer informed me that he could give me a ticket for "evasion" (which was ridiculous, I slowed way down, put my turn signal on, and pulled over when it was safe, about 50 yards from where he turned his lights on. There was only a narrow shoulder on either side so there was nowhere to immediately pull over. Um, I'm sorry, no, I'm not going to freaking stop in the middle of the road with a car full of kids.) He told me sternly that he could have my car impounded right now if he wanted to, and that if I didn't have the car picked up by someone within the hour, he would. And that he could take me down to the station (and do what, book me? :scratch,) but he was going to be "nice" and let me go with two $450 tickets instead. By the time he was through with me I was in tears. He could have just given me the tickets, plain and simple. But nooo, he had to make sure I knew exactly how much power he had to make me suffer.

And then. Then he told me I had to get out of the car and walk home. Eight months pregnant, with three small children in tow, in 90-degree weather, and with groceries that couldn't sit in the heat. While he sat in his nice air-conditioned car until we were out of sight, I'm assuming to make sure I wouldn't go back and get the car. My children wanted to know why I was crying, and why the PO, who was supposed to protect us, was so mean? :irked:

Every time I drove down that road I felt sick to have been treated so unnecessarily meanly and not been able to say a word about it. I mean, what can you do? Nod your head like a child and say, "I understand." Unless you want more trouble, which in no uncertain times you've been informed would be easy enough for him to make for you.

Although I wasn't contesting the tickets, I did want to have the fines reduced, so I went to court. I told the judge the whole story, and when I was done I was shaking I was so angry. The judge asked the PO if he had anything to say in response. He looked down at his papers and said simply, "no." I can't tell you how good it was to be able to say my piece, with witnesses, and have him be able to do nothing about it. I hope he was ashamed of himself.

[sevenkids]

4LB's, that is truly horrible.

[Houdini]

Stories like these are why my children are supervised while outside. Why risk it.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=61467

[Houdini]

My whole neighborhood is filled with kids playing outside, they play stickball and jump-rope in the street, they meet at the park, they walk to and from football and cheerleading practice. My kids have been in just about every house (with kids) on the block, and every kid on the block has been in mine. No one would call the police on a parent who's kids were playing outside. We have what is called a "community" in our little neck of the 'hood. We all know each other, we know which kid belongs to which house and parents, and we all would rather go to the parents in person if something needed to be sorted out. If we think someone's kids are going hungry, someone from one of the many churches will be bringing a food basket by on Saturday morning. If someone's kids are wearing the same dirty clothes day in and day out, someone will be bringing a bag full of clothes and dropping it on the doorstep. Not to say the police or other authorities are never called, but it's usually a last resort for serious situations. People are more inclined to think someone's having a rough time and needs help rather than, "Call CPS!"

It sounds like a great area to live in.....much like the communities of days past. It would be great if more communities returned to these types. We know everyone on our street and have known them for five years plus (we live in a habitat community and all built our houses together). I still don't let my kids out front without supervision. This neighborhood is nothing like the one you describe. The other night we had a parent encouraging a fist fight between two 12 year olds and then another fight right after that between two 15 year old which ended with the one parent telling another parent he has a tree in the backyard just for him (my one neighbor is black). Not the environment I imagined it would be when we moved in so I take all the precautions I can to keep my children safe.

[Herausgeber]

Storm Bride, I meant your claim about a rise in stranger abductions. I don't question your personal story.

[Storm Bride]

Storm Bride, I meant your claim about a rise in stranger abductions. I don't question your personal story.
Oh - sorry. I wasn't really making a claim. I'm just curious as to how much of a rise in stranger abductions there has been. It seems to me that there has been a huge upsurge in family kidnappings over the last 10-20 years, but it may just be my perceptions. (For one thing, many "missing kids" notices that I see have comments about the child possibly/probably being in the company of the mother, father, grandmother, etc.)

[WinterBaby]

Stories like these are why my children are supervised while outside. Why risk it.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=61467

Respectfully, I understand why a story like that would affect your outlook. It would give anyone pause. It's horrific. But understand, that for others of us, it no more impacts what we believe is developmentally appropriate for our children than other horrific and rare (but some less so) incidents. Like driving past a family laid out dead beside the interstate after having their vehicle struck by an out of control truck doesn't keep me from traveling that same road with my family; knowing of someone who died of head injuries from a bathroom fall doesn't change our bathing habits; hearing of a baby that died at term in labor doesn't incline me towards an elective c-section a couple weeks early; watching an experienced horseman have his thigh shattered by a horse's kick never made it cross my mind to keep dd clear of them; and reading about little girls kidnapped right out their beds doesn't make me afraid to say good night. Bad things happen, and we all make our individual assessments of risk level vs. what we most value about living. We all come to a different place in that assessment, but I think it's important to acknowledge that everyone's perspective is valid on it. Supervising your children outdoors until a late age is entirely reasonable. But so is giving them a lot more space sooner.

[alisaterry]

Respectfully, I understand why a story like that would affect your outlook. It would give anyone pause. It's horrific. But understand, that for others of us, it no more impacts what we believe is developmentally appropriate for our children than other horrific and rare (but some less so) incidents. Like driving past a family laid out dead beside the interstate after having their vehicle struck by an out of control truck doesn't keep me from traveling that same road with my family; knowing of someone who died of head injuries from a bathroom fall doesn't change our bathing habits; hearing of a baby that died at term in labor doesn't incline me towards an elective c-section a couple weeks early; watching an experienced horseman have his thigh shattered by a horse's kick never made it cross my mind to keep dd clear of them; and reading about little girls kidnapped right out their beds doesn't make me afraid to say good night. Bad things happen, and we all make our individual assessments of risk level vs. what we most value about living. We all come to a different place in that assessment, but I think it's important to acknowledge that everyone's perspective is valid on it. Supervising your children outdoors until a late age is entirely reasonable. But so is giving them a lot more space sooner.

Fantastic Response.

[jdedmom]

The last time was the worst. I was going over the speed limit and my license was expired (2 weeks, I was eight months pregnant and with everything that was going on in preparing for the birth I had managed to forget to renew, oops.) The officer informed me that he could give me a ticket for "evasion" (which was ridiculous, I slowed way down, put my turn signal on, and pulled over when it was safe, about 50 yards from where he turned his lights on. There was only a narrow shoulder on either side so there was nowhere to immediately pull over. Um, I'm sorry, no, I'm not going to freaking stop in the middle of the road with a car full of kids.) He told me sternly that he could have my car impounded right now if he wanted to, and that if I didn't have the car picked up by someone within the hour, he would. And that he could take me down to the station (and do what, book me? :scratch,) but he was going to be "nice" and let me go with two $450 tickets instead. By the time he was through with me I was in tears. He could have just given me the tickets, plain and simple. But nooo, he had to make sure I knew exactly how much power he had to make me suffer.



With all due respect you were 8 months pregnant, unlicenced, speeding, with a car full of kids and your angry with the cop?:scratch IMO he was doing what he needed to do to make the roads safer.

[Storm Bride]

What does the fact that she was 8 months pregnant, her license had expired and she had kids in the car have to do with making the streets safer?

[Houdini]

What does the fact that she was 8 months pregnant, her license had expired and she had kids in the car have to do with making the streets safer?

Personally, I am figuring the ticket made the streets safer b/c maybe the poster would think about their speed the next time they are behind the wheel of a vehicle. I think the 8 months pregnant and having kids in the car just made the decision to speed all the more wrong b/c she was putting even more innocent lives in danger. I have no idea about the expired license other than the officer had every right to ticket and impound the car.

[Mama Poot]

I wasn't aware that playing 10 ft from one's apt door was illegal, it's not in our CC&R's anywhere. their ego-mojo or whatever.

Hopefully your lease has no such rules, but it definitely sounds like you live in a stuffy condo community that might have stupid regulations about things like this. I could never live in a place like that. Even our peaceful, kid-filled, tiny Ohio town isn't enough for me. I can't wait until I have my acre in the country with the nearest neighbor a mile away. I suggest you consider living somewhere more family-friendly.

[Storm Bride]

Personally, I am figuring the ticket made the streets safer b/c maybe the poster would think about their speed the next time they are behind the wheel of a vehicle. I think the 8 months pregnant and having kids in the car just made the decision to speed all the more wrong b/c she was putting even more innocent lives in danger.
I find the speed issue to be kind of funny, actually. I wish I could remember exactly where it was, but we had a case somewhere in Canada where a guy was ticketed for speeding on the highway - he was driving the same speed as everybody else. He asked the judge how much over the "speed limit" was acceptable, and was told that the limit was the limit. So, he and a friend tried an experiment. They drove at the speed limit, on the highway, in adjoining lanes...and were ticketed for obstructing traffic. They took it to court, and the charge held. So, driving over the speed limit was speeding, and driving at the speed limit was obstructing traffic...

I think speeding is dangerous, but I also think that avoiding tickets is a game you can't win much of the time.

[Scattershoot]

Stormbride,

Nice response. I've driven the speed limit with my son in the car and had SUV- driving moms or Ford F-150's tailgate me within inches. What is more dangerous going the speed limit or picking up the pace a few miles an hour? We could go on and on and people are going to see what they believe.

Here's something to chew on. There are only two kinds of laws: criminal and civil. If you want to get a court room fired up next time you show for a traffic ticket ask the p.o. which law you broke. It's obviously not a criminal for a speeding ticket so it must be civil. There are only two types of civil cases: contract dispute and tort. You obviously won't have a contract with the police officer (no a driver's license is not a contract with that officer). You did not commit a tort because there is no harm or injury. Almost all p.o.'s will not have a clue as to what you are talking about and the judge, or the prosecutor, will probably step in to defend the p.o. Then you can ask who the p.o. who he/she represents. He/she will probably say something like "the state" or "the city." If you want to really start some fireworks then ask the judge who he/she respresents. You may see an explosion (can you say conflict of interest). You can also ask the p.o. to define "the state" or "the city."

[KnittingMama]

Ok, after having read every post (which some were quite lengthy), I have to add my 2 cents.

First, I'm a granola bar. Never used to be, I actually was more of a chocolate chip cookie, but then I became a mom, so now I'm a granola bar with chocolate chips :lol My DH is more of an organic power bar. Not quite as crunchy as me, but well, I think you get the point.

Here's where I tell you that he is a police officer and has been in the military (both active and reserve) for over 10 years. He also happens to work in one of the most dangerous cities in the US based on population. He has seen some strange things, been shot at, written tickets, given breaks, etc. All that being said, not all cops are bad. You can think I'm biased because I'm married to one, and that is ok, but it simply isn't true.

What is actually happening here with the generalization that cops are bad, or thugs or whatever other term you're using, is the same reason why some parents stated that they won't let their kids go outside and play by themselves. Because these parents hear of horror stories or believe that their neighborhood is unsafe (I'm not saying its not, just making a blanket statement), they assume that it is unsafe for their kids to go outside alone. Really, if you think all cops are bad and are basing that on a bad experience or a bad story you heard, are you really any different? Most people don't hear about the good things that happen in a neighborhood or the good cops, because media doesn't deem that as interesting, so it gets seriously under-reported to the average citizen.

Some examples:

There was a break-in at a local church in the area, and the police officers didn't have any leads. One officer ended up catching the person based solely on an impression of a shoe print left in the carpet. The impression wasn't deep enough to make a print from it, so they had to take pictures, which turned out only so-so. The story didn't even make the news for more than 10 seconds, mostly because it was a small crime. The officer got recognition from his department, but that didn't make the news either.

Another officer saved a man's life because of his first aide knowledge. Story never made the news even though the person that was injured had been shot.

A veteran officer of 20+ years mentors kids and inner city youth to keep them out of drugs and bad situations. He started a program at his department to facilitate this and the program also recognizes youth that exceed in academic areas. He received recognition by the department, but the 20 second news clip just talked about the program.

I know about these stories (and countless others) because the first one was my husband, the second was my BIL, and the third is my step-dad.

So, I'm not saying that everyone's feelings are completely unwarranted, but I would caution you to be careful the generalizations that you make about others. It doesn't serve anyone any good. I've had my fair share of speeding tickets and some of the cops were real jerks, but that doesn't make me think that all cops are bad. It also doesn't teach my children good values if I generalize about a particular profession or population.

Now, as for letting your kids go outside and play alone, I think it is totally dependent upon the neighborhood, your kids' personality, and your own comfort level. My oldest is only 2, so we dont let her go outside alone. We have 2.5 acres of land, so when she is older, yes, she can go outside and play alone, but there will be rules and limits to keep her safe. The only thing that would keep us from letting our kids play alone outside will be the neighbors. They have a dog that has on more than one occasion, come over to our yard and acted inappropriately towards myself, DH and even our kids. Our neighbors let their 4 y/o run around outside alone, but the problem is, their son likes to play near the road where cars are driving 50+ mph. They also do not watch him out the window either. He is completely unsupervised.

So, I don't think that those parents that have issues with letting their kids' play alone outside are totally unwarranted. There are circumstances that it would make more sense for the kids to be supervised. But, is it really that difficult to put off what you are doing so that you can enjoy some time outdoors with your kids? Even if its just to read a book? For me, personally, if my kids want to play outside, we all go outside. Their fun is more important than whatever I'm doing inside.

**when I say YOU, I'm not referring to anyone in particular. Just a general YOU.**

[KnittingMama]

Stormbride,

Here's something to chew on. There are only two kinds of laws: criminal and civil. If you want to get a court room fired up next time you show for a traffic ticket ask the p.o. which law you broke. It's obviously not a criminal for a speeding ticket so it must be civil. There are only two types of civil cases: contract dispute and tort. You obviously won't have a contract with the police officer (no a driver's license is not a contract with that officer). You did not commit a tort because there is no harm or injury. Almost all p.o.'s will not have a clue as to what you are talking about and the judge, or the prosecutor, will probably step in to defend the p.o. Then you can ask who the p.o. who he/she represents. He/she will probably say something like "the state" or "the city." If you want to really start some fireworks then ask the judge who he/she respresents. You may see an explosion (can you say conflict of interest). You can also ask the p.o. to define "the state" or "the city."

I just have to add, that I would be very surprised if the first in this series of questions even got answered. It doesn't pertain to the fact at hand, no matter how you construe it, and I doubt any judge would let it go on and on to the point of erruption.

[Scattershoot]

I just have to add, that I would be very surprised if the first in this series of questions even got answered. It doesn't pertain to the fact at hand, no matter how you construe it, and I doubt any judge would let it go on and on to the point of erruption.

First of all, I have had and do have p.o's that are friends. They, like so many others, have a thankless job. Every time the trash man picks up my family's trash and I am outside with my son, I let my son know how thankful I am that the trash man does what he does. Without trashmen, the world would be in terrible shape. You were defending your husband which is noble and I was offering some info that many, many books have been written on and has occurred in court rooms innumerous times. The "I doubt any judge would let it go on" is a symptom of the original thread. Who gives who the right to "judge" what should be allowed or not? That is completely relevant to the topic at hand (where a child plays). The original post was about run-ins with police officers and how to handle the situations (I gave an example of a court room and how being knowledgable can help a defendant not feel overwhelmed). I've worked with probation departments, CPS and been in court many times working with judges, ad litems, p.o.'s, prosecuters. I know that a certain arrogance can occur when others are given authority. This can be a real threat, especially when someone makes a 8 1/2 month pregnant woman walk home in the heat with 3 children in tow.

Most of the p.o.'s I've known were good, decent people who really wanted to help people. I would suggest that if an officer ever comes to the house in regards to a child, be NICE. They are not out to get anyone. I recently worked with a family where the wife tried to sic the p.o. on her husband for "neglecting" the children (they are divorced). The husband was very nice while the wife was belligerant and the p.o. ended up saying "thank you" to the man for his time and told the wife to chill out or he would have to deal with her (she was yelling and very aggressive).

[Scattershoot]

I just wanted to add something because it may help. PO's deal with a lot of crap. A friend of mine who was a po until recently use to vent to me a lot. It's too bad he left because of all the stress (his family was falling apart). He is a good man. He would say to me that if people could only understand the stress po's go through it would help. One aspect of the stress was the us vs. them mentality that a lot of people have when it comes to po's. If a person has that attitude then they may very well create a confrontational situation. We tend to bring into our lives the things we fear. It's a strange energetic attraction. I was pretty ornery when younger so I dealt with po's more than I care to talk about, but I was always respectful and many more times than not the po's cut me slack.

[fourlittlebirds]

Aw hell, never mind. Don't want to get a warning.

[Houdini]

Aw hell, never mind. Don't want to get a warning.


It's not a matter of driving "exactly" the speed limit b/c tickets typically are given more than just a little over the speed limit.

As far as not speeding with my children in the car.....I go to great lengths to ensure my children's health and saftey, why would the car be any different.

I agree that the treatment was unnecessary. My children's opinions are only formed partially by what they see....the other part comes from me. If I see a situation where someone acts in a way that is not typical of their profession, it is my responsibility to let my children know that. Then my children learn that while that one person didn't act accordingly, it doesn't make all in that profession that same.

Noone said you deserve to treated anyway.

You are more than welcome to voice your opinions and experiences. :thumb

[lovingmommyhood]

In the apt. I used to live in there were 3 little kids who ran around the grounds and in the parking lot all day every day. Their mom sat on the patio smoking cigarettes and she could see them from where she sat but if a car came whipping around the corner there's no way she would've been able to do anything to help her kids.

I can see why someone would call it in if they thought the children were being unsupervised. Maybe your neighbor can't see you sitting in the room watching them.

[opso726]

Not to anger or offend anyone on this board...But I am a Deputy Sheriff. Everyone sees us as the "bad" people because of the job we do. We do our job because we love it and we are good at it. If you have had a bad run in with a cop or deputy...I am sorry for what you had to go through. But we have to respond to every call we are given wether we find it valid or not. We take everything seriously. As for the comment on the 911 calls...every agency has a diffrent policy and procedure. As for our dept we respond to each and every 911 call that we get...you never know what you are going to find. Before you start bashing the police think about what we have to listen to and go through everyday. It would be nice if for once someone would see our side of things instead of seeing the worst.

[Houdini]

Not to anger or offend anyone on this board...But I am a Deputy Sheriff. Everyone sees us as the "bad" people because of the job we do. We do our job because we love it and we are good at it. If you have had a bad run in with a cop or deputy...I am sorry for what you had to go through. But we have to respond to every call we are given wether we find it valid or not. We take everything seriously. As for the comment on the 911 calls...every agency has a diffrent policy and procedure. As for our dept we respond to each and every 911 call that we get...you never know what you are going to find. Before you start bashing the police think about what we have to listen to and go through everyday. It would be nice if for once someone would see our side of things instead of seeing the worst.

:thumb Thank you for risking your life daily.

[OriginalGirlGamer]

I, like opso726, was a Deputy Sheriff. In fact, she, my husband and I all worked at the same Sheriff's Department.
It always makes me laugh to see people stereotype cops, from the 'mutant' comment and onwards. Yes, cops have to keep in shape, you try carrying all of your gear around your waist and have to chase after someone full speed, take them down, and possibly fight with them. Its hard work and it takes a certain type of person to have the nerve to go through it. So yes, you stay in some type of shape, but then you get talked about. And God forbid you see a heavy officer, then he'll get talked about as well.
I've taken in guys that beat their wives just so the wife can try to jump on me for doing so. Or have some guy take a swing at me, then I get bad mouthed because I pepper spray him. You ones bad-mouthing cops will be the first ones on the phone when something goes down, so lay off. And the bad talking and generalizing will pass on to your children, they watch and listen to everything you say, so if you start saying "that ****** cop", guess what? Your kid will have the same lack of respect.
Cops on so-called power trips are most often dealing with people that sneer and give the 'I pay your salary' remark that I hated so much. Yes, some so have an ego problem, but most don't. I was told I was too nice on many occasions.
If someone calls because they think a child is in danger, cops will show up, its our job. I've been called out to strange things, like a lady with a beehve in her tree that she wanted me to knock down for her. O_o
Even if its totally absurd, you have to respond. 911 calls, you have to respond, like opso said, you don't know what's doing on.

It just burned me up to see some of these comments, hopefully you all aren't teaching your children this. My son will know that cops are here to protect him, if mommy got a ticket, mommy shouldn't have been speeding. If we were to take all law enforcement away, it would be complete chaos.

[angelpie545]

Not to anger or offend anyone on this board...But I am a Deputy Sheriff. Everyone sees us as the "bad" people because of the job we do. We do our job because we love it and we are good at it. If you have had a bad run in with a cop or deputy...I am sorry for what you had to go through. But we have to respond to every call we are given wether we find it valid or not. We take everything seriously. As for the comment on the 911 calls...every agency has a diffrent policy and procedure. As for our dept we respond to each and every 911 call that we get...you never know what you are going to find. Before you start bashing the police think about what we have to listen to and go through everyday. It would be nice if for once someone would see our side of things instead of seeing the worst.

First off, thank you very much for your contribution to society. I do appreciate the police, and I do agree that they are very much wanted and needed. That said, the only time I have a problem with police is when they are invasive, do not follow the law, lie about the law, go out of their way to profile and purposely stop people who fit that profile, when the kill despite it not being necessary, ext. There are so many cases like that here where I am from. Just recently, a deputy pulled a gun instead of a taser and shot an innocent man. Also not too long ago, deadly force was used on a man who was carrying sword down the street, was not hurting anyone, and they shot and killed him b/c he wouldn't drop the sowrd. Now, of course, carrying a large weapon in public is dangerous, but there are other ways to stop such an individual. Cops, to my knowledge, are trained to shoot to kill They tend to be very trigger happy and lots of them are on power trips. What would make me, and others like me happy, is when cops go bad they are treated just the same as any other criminal would be. Often times they are given breaks or not prosected. Rodney King anyone? Cops beat down a man, and were acquited the first time. How they still remained cops, and how that jury reached that verdict is beyond me. But that's another story, and a story that happened long ago. Bottom line is acountability, which we need more of from that police. Thank you to all the police who are out there to truly protect and serve. I am grateful to every cop that has done his job well, rightly, and justly.

[hawkfeather]

I didn't read this entire thread..

I am curious though when we stopped assessing an individual's actions based solely on their profession?

There was a post about a momma stopped for going over the speed limit.. the following responses had her putting her children's lives in danger and the officer simply doing his job? I will mention that I saw no actual speed listed here.. and while some can say officer's will not ticket unless you are *really* speeding -that is far from a universal truth. Some ticket for going slightly above the speed limit some ticket for going under, I knew one who targeted certain team's baseball caps.

And anyone can argue that I just didn't know good or representational officers, but that is the point. That is one officer I know, I know many -they vary like all people. Police are people, some are jerks some are not. Being a PO does not make you immune to human behaviour which is pretty flawed at times.

The post i read wasn't simple police work, it was someone power tripping. Why make empty threats about other charges or impounding a car when you have no intentions of doing so? This benefits society because now she will not go fast in her car? Not just speeding drivers affects our society. Think about it on an individual basis.

Hearing this story and making assumptions that the poster regularly "speeds" and is endangering the lives of her children is pretty harsh. If getting one speeding ticket means you are a danger to your children than we have a nation of children living on the edge here. I haven't ever gotten a ticket in my life but there has certainly been times i glanced down and realized i was going over the speed limit and slowed down, being chastized by a cop wont affect that in the least.

I was unaware we now resort to or accept scare tactics to help promote safety. Is this a tactic we can all embrace or just Police officers? or rather certain officers, not all function in this manner. again.. it is the individual.

Just like every job- some cops are wonderful caring devoted citizens and some are not, just being a cop doesn't tell you anything about an individual.. not that they are mutant brutes.. or that they are divine protectors.

[lotusdebi]

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[a_work_in_progress]

My daughter has a fear of police from what she's witnessed. I don't encourage her to trust the cops around here. Just recently, a cop shot and killed a man in a case of mistaken identity. Everybody pretty much assumes, with good reason, that the police officer lied about the events that led up to the shooting. Fact of the matter was that one of the most wanted criminals is in our county, and was spooted riding an ATV. A man who looks similar to the wanted man was out riding ATV's with others, and the cop shot and killed him. A young man. He was at a family reunion. He didn't do anything wrong. Shoot first, ask questions later. This wanted criminal didn't even kill anybody!!!! As a result of the actions by the police and the system, this criminal has gained A LOT of sympathy around the area, and there are people hiding him out in their homes. When cops are jerks, which is the case around here, the community tends to work together AGAINST them.

[OriginalGirlGamer]

You know, the last 2 posters are why cops have such a hard time. I live in one of those area where the cops aren't too trusted, and you know what? I was told that there were good people and bad people everywhere, in every job or career. That's responsible parenting. Us cops are saviours to me. When someone decides they want to kidnap your kid, or break into your house while you're in the shower, you'll be the first ones calling 911 screaming into opso726's ears. That's pathetic to me. Just because you had bad experiences doesn't mean you have the right to discount my whole field. I busted my *** out there to protect people like you, that didn't want my help, that don't want to be my friend, and I came back day after day because someone out there needed me. So you mean to tell me if some man steals your purse, you're going to hate all men and teach your kids the same? I think not. Put yourselves in our boots and see the crap we have to take.
But whatever, you think the way you want, I think its pitiful and totally irresponsible to your children.

[qjraven8]

wanted to jump in and say i feel for ya and appreciate your work -:yeah: - i work for the local 911 center and hear lots of attitude from people towards law enforcement but when the s*** hits the fan, they're begging for help. and there's always someone willing to help them. yes, there are PEOPLE in law enforcement that make mistakes cuz they're PEOPLE!!! i've had bad experience with people in every job i've had and everywhere i go ... there's always bad seeds ... but i think most of the people that get into the field start out with good intentions. some of them get bitter due to the bad attitudes of the people they're trying to help day after day and year after year .. and yes, some of them take the