Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children, #7

[OTMomma]

Maybe we should really just start a new thread every month, instead of having ones with over 800 posts? :)

All with Gifted Kids (or you think they might be gifted) are welcome to come hang with us! :)

[surf mama]

wow a new thread....I am a newbie to this thread....I was too overwhelmed by the last to jump in!

Well I think my dd is gifted or at least really smart. She is only 2.5 so I'll see how she continues to develop. So far she is really well rounded in her development and especially creative with an extra good memory. I am noticing other people noticing how smart she is which is confirming my suspicions that she is well above average.

I look forward to learning more from all of you....I really want to do my best to nurture who she is.

[Emeline]

Subscribing to the thread! I posted an introduction at the end of the last thread but I'm too tired to retype the whole thing now. Looking forward to getting to know everyone!

[Velveteen]

I'm enjoying the conversation too!

[teachma]

:wave Hi, Velveteen.

Subscribing. Also wanted to quickly brag about dd. (Since I am always talking about ds...) Last night, I was counting for ds to see how quickly he could do something (counting motivates him) and I stopped at 8. Dd continued counting where I left off, all the way to 20. I never knew she could count past 10! She hasn't been "taught," but obviously picked it up. Now, I realize that some of the profoundly gifted kids have been doing this from a year old, or maybe even earlier, but at 20.5 months old, she is far ahead of the "norm," I think. And this is where I find it so hard for my kids to fit in. I can't compare them with the super-gifted, but thinking about them in relation to the regular just doesn't work for us either. Are there any more kids like this around?

[allgirls]

:wave Hi, Velveteen.

Subscribing. Also wanted to quickly brag about dd. (Since I am always talking about ds...) Last night, I was counting for ds to see how quickly he could do something (counting motivates him) and I stopped at 8. Dd continued counting where I left off, all the way to 20. I never knew she could count past 10! She hasn't been "taught," but obviously picked it up. Now, I realize that some of the profoundly gifted kids have been doing this from a year old, or maybe even earlier, but at 20.5 months old, she is far ahead of the "norm," I think. And this is where I find it so hard for my kids to fit in. I can't compare them with the super-gifted, but thinking about them in relation to the regular just doesn't work for us either. Are there any more kids like this around?


I thinkthis is my dd...not profoundly gifted but pretty exceptional...then again, whose to say? Her learning follows such an odd pattern. She is also well rounded though her motor skills are a bit behind..can't jump yet and is pretty slow on stairs. I like it here because I learn so much about how they learn and how to deal with other people.

My dd just moved up to the preschool room at preschool from the toddler room(her first early advancement :lol ) and is the youngest there...she fits in quite a bit better with those kids even though she looks so tiny...she is by far the youngest there, all the others are 3 and up but she is quite ready. She's one of the few that can put her shoes on the right feet :thumb

Sophia stood out quite a bit in the classroom of kids her age. She was the same age as many of them but the difference was obvious.

I posted on the other thread about her tantrums and the difficulty I have been having.

So here is how yesterday went. She got up and nursed. Then we had a long talk about waiting. I explained what "waiting" meant and that Martina needed to nurse first and be taken care of because she didn't understand waiting and that she would cry if left to wait because she can't understand but that she was bigger and maybe she could wait a few minutes for me to finish nursing Martina or taking care of her.

I also didn't turn on the tv all day and around 4pm I got Sophia a snack and a drink and turned on Dora for half an hour...and Iwas nursing baby and Sophia wanted more drink. I said you have to wait, Martina is nursing and when she 's done I will get you a drink. Well of course she started to whine and get upset and I said "remember how we talked about waiting and that you are bigger and can wait a little but I will get you what you need as soon as I can" so she turned back to the tv and continued to watch Dora. Now I was not sure that she actually understood and was waiting like I said or if something on Dora actually got her attention but anyway I continued nursing Martina and then I burped her and laid her in the bouncy seat and immediately Sophia turns around "may I have my drink now" and I was "yes, that's why I put Martina down, to go get your drink now" and she was so happy and I said "that was very good waiting, you were very patient" and she said "what is patient?" and I said "it's when you can wait a while without getting upset" So I got her drink and all was well.

And that was the only sign of a tantrum the entire day! I also had squeezed a nap in there too. She went to bed easily...my older dd watched baby so I could read and nurse her to sleep. She had a very happy day!!!

I think I really need to talk to her more and explain things to her before hand. I always did this but haven't much lately. I have been busy.

I don't always expect her to wait and be patient but along with being well fed and rested and understanding what it is I think it will get a bit better.

[m&m]

subscribing

I introduced myself a long time ago on a previous thread, but thought a re-introduction was in order.

Hello, I am Monique a gifted person, with a gifted brother and father, wife to a gifted husband, and mother to two gifted daughters. Sounds odd I know, but hey gifted people tend to get along well, and genetics plays a big role. :)

anyhow...

My oldest is 6.5 now and doing grade 3 and above (the education ministry considers her grade 3, but in many areas she's is above that). We are now homeschooling but are enrolled with a virtual school to which we report to and get advice from. There are many areas she is passionate about.

My youngest is 4 and has just started to show her own abilities, etc. She is not as exceptional as her sister so we haven't noticed her skills as much early on. (for example, her sister started talking at 6 months, with big sentences by 9 months, whereas she talked in sentences at 14 months but she started walking earlier than her sister did)

anyway, enough about us for now... :)

[eilonwy]

:wave Subscribing.

Allgirls, I remember having that same discussion with BeanBean when he was 20 months old and we had a brand new BooBah. It helped that he had an older cousin who could help explain the concept of patience to him. :nod I have to say, though, that I totally second the recommendation about looking at Sophia's diet. BeanBean was anemic at that age, and as I've said before adding an herbal iron supplement to his diet did wonders for his temper. :nod

My brain has started to shrivel up and die... and I am miserable and angry all the time now. :( Yesterday was actually pretty decent; you can tell because I wasn't on MDC all day, pretending that I have no life outside of the computer while writing my least-coherent posts ever... :lol I really need to take more flax seed oil. :nut Bleh.

BeanBean really wants me to make more of an effort to do "schoolish" things with him every single day. He absolutely loves it, and I don't think that it's just because "he likes spending time with Mamma." :eyesroll He'll drag anyone who is sitting still into a discussion about nouns, or addition, or whatever. I feel guilty as heck for not being able to do more with him. I really need a lot of help to get organized, though, because we don't have places to put everything... I dunno. I've got plans, but they all seem to require things that we don't really have right now. :shrug We'll see what happens, and in the meantime I'll do what he drags me to do and feel guilty for not offering more. :(

BooBah is really starting to talk like a person now. I have a feeling that she wouldn't say anything at all if BeanBean wasn't around, that she'd be one of those kids who didn't say a word and then started talking in complete, adult sentences around 24 months just like magic. :lol However, BeanBean *is* around, and he never. shuts. up. :blah :blah :blah So BooBah's picked up all sorts of things to say, just by listening to BeanBean and repeating what he says. :lol He never stops talking, so I think that BooBah thinks that's the default setting for kids, you know? :lol It's kind of cute, and very funny.

[Girl Named Sandoz]

:notes2:

[Emeline]

subscribing

I introduced myself a long time ago on a previous thread, but thought a re-introduction was in order.



I should re post my intro from the other thread too, here it is. Oh, I posted it yesterday if that makes any difference.


I realized that aside from my Santa Clause rant, I never formally introduced myself. I'm mom to two wonderful children ds, just turned 4 and dd, newly 3 months old. I came across your board doing some research on giftedness because it is becoming more and more clear that ds may be gifted. He could just be really bright, but I thought I'd subscribe anyway. You'll have to forgive me as I have not read through this whole thread, so I'm not sure we fit here or not.

I won't go into boring details, but here are some things that have stuck out about our son the last few years:

*rolled over at 1 month, crawled at 3.5 months, walked at almost 6 months and ran by 7 months

*spoke his first word at 1 month old, had a vocabulary of over 50 words by 5 months, was stringing words together by 6 months and spoke in full sentences by 1 year

*always just had a greater sense of awareness and understanding than other babies

*hit all the milestones early, knew the alphabet and could count to 20 by 11 months, had figured out how to count backwards by 15 months and started saying the ABC's backwards around then too

*could read many words at 12 months, could read almost anything by 18 months. Was reading chapter books by 24 months, his first being "The Magic Treehouse" series. He finished those by 2.5 years old and polished off Stuart Little, Charlotte's Web and the The Mouse and the Motorcycle by 3. He's currently devouring the Chronicles of Narnia series and loving them

*He understood complex math concepts like addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and skip counting by 2.5 years

*Could do 100 piece puzzles by 18 months. Is now into those 3D ones of buildings and stuff

I don't want to bore you, that's our son in a nutshell though. I'm looking forward to meeting everyone here!

[lovemyboy]

:wave

Hi everyone. I introduced myself in thread #5 and have been lurking ever since. :hide: For good measure, I'll introduce myself again. I am mom to one DS who just turned three. I'm hoping for more children but that is another topic. ;) I've never been tested for giftedness, my mother was gifted and was disturbed by the way she was treated in school so she refused any testing or special stuff for her children. DH is gifted.

I've never had DS tested for giftedness or anything but he does lots of things that absolutely amaze me. He has been in preschool since he is 2 1/2 and is the youngest one there. Even though he is now three he only wants to play with the 4-4 1/2 year olds because they can communicate on his level. He has an amazing vocabulary. Just yesterday he was counting (unprompted) in the car in the 70's. I had no idea he knew that many numbers. He is extremely curious about everything and asks tons of questions.

Anyway, for the past few weeks when I pick him up from preschool his teacher makes a point of saying how smart he is. I'm not sure how to handle this so I just say, "thank you." Yesterday she said, "I can really tell you work with him at home." My jaw dropped because I think she is under the impression that we grill numbers and facts and words into his head at home. We absolutely don't do that. He asks questions and we answer them and use that as an opportunity for learning. That is all.

[darlindeliasmom]

subbing
I have been lurking for oh, a few threads now, though I did post early. DD is almost 9, and clearly not profoundly gifted, but still in the range.
School won't put her in their program, although they all see the creativity and "sideways" thinking I talk about...if it can't be quantified, they don't want to know about it. I think I stopped posting about when they told me that. But her mind is still working away, different from her peers, and I'm still dealing with the sensitivity, curiosity, challenge of her...
So I think I'll hang out a bit, if you all don't mind.

[OTMomma]

:wave Hi, Velveteen.

Subscribing. Also wanted to quickly brag about dd. (Since I am always talking about ds...) Last night, I was counting for ds to see how quickly he could do something (counting motivates him) and I stopped at 8. Dd continued counting where I left off, all the way to 20. I never knew she could count past 10! She hasn't been "taught," but obviously picked it up. Now, I realize that some of the profoundly gifted kids have been doing this from a year old, or maybe even earlier, but at 20.5 months old, she is far ahead of the "norm," I think. And this is where I find it so hard for my kids to fit in. I can't compare them with the super-gifted, but thinking about them in relation to the regular just doesn't work for us either. Are there any more kids like this around?

I too have a child that doesn't fit with the super gifted kids, as she's not reading novels or writing at 3, but she just doesn't fit with "average". Around here the biggest thing is language- she speaks like a small grown up and has for a while now. For example, if you ask her which thing she wants her reply might be "Acutally, I would like the red one please", instead of the "that" that I see other kids her age do while pointing. I think there are a fair number of mom's here with kids who fall between super genius and above average, its OK.

[OTMomma]

Lovemyboy- I wouldn't take offense. There are a suprising number of parents out there who don't take the time to answer their children's questions, read to them, and sing songs with them. All those things kids need, I'm sure the teacher was just trying to compliment your parenting. :)

[SleepyMamaBear]

subbing real quick. i will re-intro when i can get more time to myself. yeah, like that will ever happen!
nice to have a new thread going!

[CAmomto1]

I too have a child that doesn't fit with the super gifted kids, as she's not reading novels or writing at 3, but she just doesn't fit with "average". Around here the biggest thing is language- she speaks like a small grown up and has for a while now. For example, if you ask her which thing she wants her reply might be "Acutally, I would like the red one please", instead of the "that" that I see other kids her age do while pointing. I think there are a fair number of mom's here with kids who fall between super genius and above average, its OK.


That's DD too. :) She reads and writes, does adding, subtracting and some simple multiplying and dividing, while her K classmates (some of them, that is) are still figuring out how to write their names, letters and numbers.

[kellywhalen]

Hi!
subscribing too!
I was "gifted" by school standards (though I don't know how much of my brain is left these days! LOL!) and DH has a very high IQ. So it was no suprise to us to find that our children are "above average" in many areas.

It's interesting to see how they have developed and grown in different areas.

DS is reading above 5th grade level and he is quite bored by school-we are sticking with it for now (working on sensory issues and possible diagnosis of Asperger's) and supplementing his education with at home education that he enjoys immensely.

DD is developing in other areas, she is especially gifted physically and has extraordanary balnce and poise in all movement.

DD2 has started counting to 20 recently and is able to repeat songs word for word. She is getting into "reading" more though she doesn't really "read" yet.

It is nice to have a place we can talk about these things, I feel so odd when I talk about them to anyone IRL-like I'm "bragging" or something.

Has anyone encountered issues with giftedness in older kids?

DS has some tics, some social issues, and we are on the journey of having him evaluated. I go back and forth wondering if it is the "system" that labels him as something versus having this special way of dealing with the world that I think may have more to do with being gifted than anything else.

It's frustrating because I know his needs aren't being met daily in the classroom, yet we need to be able to use the "system" right now to see if it helps with the issues we have.

Any advice on that end would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[lckrause]

Just wanted to welcome the new people. :) Your kids all sound amazing.

I've been sick for the last week so I'm useless right now. I hope to catch up on everything later.

[TEAK's Mom]

TEAK is also one the the kids who is not, I think, profoundly gifted. She is 3.5 and while she doesn't really write yet, she does read novels and create the most elaborate play. Her vocabulary also tends to alarm people.

I'm not sure about ABKA yet. She's only 15 months old and doesn't talk all that clearly. She has a couple hundred words that I understand and more that I'm not always getting. She is certainly bright, but I don't know yet if she is gifted.

We'll be back.

[teachma]

That's DD too. :) She reads and writes, does adding, subtracting and some simple multiplying and dividing, while her K classmates (some of them, that is) are still figuring out how to write their names, letters and numbers.

Yeah, that pretty much sounds like my 5 year old. He has other markers of giftedness (creativity, verbal ability, and more) but achievement-wise I'd consider him "above average," not amazing. I actually just got off the phone with his teacher who remarked on his handwriting, and how small and controlled it has become...I was quite surprised, as he was never advanced with anything fine-motor related. But the teacher also mentioned some kids still need to learn to identify letters, others are woring on developing longer attention spans, but my son's area of need is remembering that he's not the teacher! :lol

[loraxc]

I wanted to welcome all the new posters as well. :)

DS has some tics, some social issues, and we are on the journey of having him evaluated. I go back and forth wondering if it is the "system" that labels him as something versus having this special way of dealing with the world that I think may have more to do with being gifted than anything else.

I hear this. I think it can be very hard to parse. I am really wondering if we are going to be looking at this once Froglet gets in school. I'm not saying that I think she's going to be diagnosable, per se, but that I think she is going to be socially unusual, and that it's going to be hard to separate giftedness from the possibility of a mild something "else." This is just my instinct, right now, as I watch her and compare her to other toddlers her age.

Someone recommended a book to me...shoot, can't quite recall the name ...something about giftedness and dual diagnosis?

[teachma]

DS has some tics, some social issues, and we are on the journey of having him evaluated. I go back and forth wondering if it is the "system" that labels him as something versus having this special way of dealing with the world that I think may have more to do with being gifted than anything else.


Welcome to you. My ds is 5 and we just completed an evaluation which revealed, well, not too much. I have known for some time that he has anxiety, and during periods of severe anxiety, obsessive-compulsive behaviors have emerged along with some relatively mild physical tics. Last summer, for instance, he was constantly wiping his mouth with the back of his wrist, after each time he ate a bite of food or spoke at all. He was also shrugging one shoulder and rolling his neck frequently. He has been in therapy since June for the anxiety, and all of these symptoms have been completely alleviated. He remains tense and high strung, but that's more like how I am, so I think it's either hereditary or learned. He has had a variety of social issues because he has never liked to play the same way as boys his age. He doesn't like toys, but instead likes to make sculptures and symmetrical designs with all sorts of art supplies, create elaborate scenarious to act out (kind of like playing house, but with magical stuff or religious themed ideas, or pirates from time to time). Now he is starting to enjoy more physical activities (basketball, soccer, tae kwon do) and that's helped him during times like recess at school. He doesn't ever choose to have friends come over to play, but I invite them periodically anyway. Sometimes it's a success, and other times, he is so opinionated about what they should do on the playdate that the whole thing backfires. It's hard. I can relate. Oh yeah, and we also have some sensory issues that come and go, fluctuating also with the level of his overall anxiety.

[teachma]

I wanted to welcome all the new posters as well. :)



I hear this. I think it can be very hard to parse. I am really wondering if we are going to be looking at this once Froglet gets in school. I'm not saying that I think she's going to be diagnosable, per se, but that I think she is going to be socially unusual, and that it's going to be hard to separate giftedness from the possibility of a mild something "else." This is just my instinct, right now, as I watch her and compare her to other toddlers her age.


So interesting because I remember feeling this exact way about ds when he was of toddler age, and it has proven true! My dd, on the other hand, aside from being pretty advanced in all areas of development, is so strikingly "normal," that's kind of frightening too! She just happens to be an exceptionally coordinated 20 month old who speaks paragraphs, understands everything, but plays like a regular kid in most ways.

[CAmomto1]

but my son's area of need is remembering that he's not the teacher! :lol

LOL! That resonates with me. ;)

[eilonwy]

I've got older kid gifted issues, but they're all mine. :shake :lol I've still got a complex about my childhood and teen years. :nut

BeanBean is another kid who seems strikingly normal in many ways, but the more I look at his "normal" behaviors, the more extraordinary he seems to be. He's extroverted and very sociable, and I always thought that was what "normal" meant, but it turns out that I was wrong... BeanBean is rather exceptional in this regard. People are shocked by what he has to say, true, but I think that most of the time they're more shocked that he's initiating and continuing conversation with them. :lol For example: a month or two (or three? :scratch) ago, BeanBean ran away from me in a department store. This wasn't a huge surprise, but this time he was too fast and I lost track of him (I'm not tall enough to see over racks or shelves in stores). I had worked in a store in this chain before, so I knew their lost/unattended child code and walked to the aisle to wait for it. When I heard it, I went towards the department that called the code and saw BeanBean walking, holding hands with a clerk and chatting amiably with an assistant manager. "There's my Mamma and my sister!" he said, and came to give me a hug. The clerk was smitten ("he's so adorable!") and the assistant manager was very impressed. "He was so polite, he just came up to us and asked if we'd please help him find his Mamma and his sister. What a sweet kid!"

Apparently, what's *typical* for a nearly-three-year-old is for the child to burst into tears when they realize that Mamma is no longer in visual range. Not so with BeanBean, who felt perfectly safe even before he found the clerk. There were other people in the store, but BeanBean went straight for someone who worked there, with whom he felt comfortable. My own reaction in such a situation at his age would have been atypical, but in a different direction; BeanBean's confidence was/is totally extraordinary, and his social skills are, in my mind, astounding.

[eilonwy]

So BeanBean has been "officially" home educating since August. Over the past two weeks, despite my completely miserable self being around, he's made some *huge* leaps. It's absolutely unbelievable to me to watch him sometimes! I've written down a few of the things that he's working on and I'm just seriously impressed.

We'll probably start Story of the World, part I next week and kick Torah study into gear. He's been asking me for-- get this-- homework. He wants to do the books that ChibiChibi did last year (MCP Phonics and Spelling Workout). He's developed this sudden interest in writing, is absolutely *loving* reading and recitation... I always knew that there was a possibility that he'd just jump forward like this, but I wasn't actually *expecting* it so soon. :shrug I'm not quite sure what I'll do with him before I can get the books, though. He's having the time of his life with EarlyBird 2B, and I've been letting him "write" and giving him words to copy (no whole sentences yet, though he's asked for them... maybe soon) but without "kindergarten paper." I'm very concerned that I might stress him out about the writing thing, because I've heard so much about little boys and writing, but BeanBean is so incredibly happy to sit writing "carfax reports" for ages... :lol Funny kid!

At any rate, I didn't mean this post to just be a brag on my Bean (though it did turn out that way :bag: ). I was just curious, once again, about the line between following a child's interests and encouraging too much involvement with something. I feel a bit like I've let a tornado loose with the whole home education thing, like the Bean is out of the bag and ready to *run*. :lol I'm not so much worried about burning him out at this point as I am about making him strange, or allowing him to *be* strange... :nut I'm also not articulating well, I've got bad TBP. :nut

I'm also wondering what to do with BooBah, who seems desperate to do the things that her brother does. :nut She throws fits when she can't! I don't even know how to console her, she's 18 months old she's not supposed to care that she can't recite poems or whatever. She's not even supposed to *notice*. So what can I do with her mininess? :shrug

[catgirl]

In no particular order:

Rynna, what are you using for Torah study? I still haven't found anything for ds's level that I like and I'm winging it.

Allgirls, I was going to suggest that maybe Sophia just needs to have a few things explained - like, maybe, that you will teach her to read? It might not have occurred to her that there's a straightforward solution to the problem!

I, too, have a not-pg-but definitely-off-the-regular-curve kid, who also thinks he's the teacher or at least that teacher's assistant. And since it's OK to brag here, may I please mention that he just blew through 3 years of math in a year and will start the 4th grade math curriculum tomorrow! He's multiplying, dividing and exchanging like an old pro - it's really fun to teach him! (We use Shiller math, if anyone's interested.)

OK, I'm slinking back into the shadows of lurkdom now...

[teachma]

Rynna, it must be very tough with BooBah emulating her bro but unable to measure up...I have this at my house, but to a much lesser degree because my children are 3.5 years apart. So, it is mostly the case that dd understands the differences between her brother and her. However, particularly with physical stunts, it seems that she can come very close to being able to do what he does by observing for just a few minutes. For instance, ds started Tae Kwon Do a few weeks ago. He is just getting to the point where he feels confident enough to show me some of his stuff at home. He is into teaching his sister what he learns, and MAN, she gets it instantly. All the forms and poses, jumps, spins, Korean vocalizations...I can sit on the couch and watch their performance all day.

Dd is suddenly interested in classifying everything according to "big" and "little." Now she is really reminding me of her brother! She's been using the words "big" and "little" (and huge, small, and tiny, and teeny-tiny...as well as probably other synonyms that now escape me) for months, but now she's asking the rhetorical, "Is ______ big or little?" and answering it herself. I was sure she's consider her big brother "big," but no, she knows he's little!

Rynna, I too am interested in how you're approaching Torah study. Ds borders on religious fanaticism at times ;) at least compared to my significantly laid back feel about it...but he is so into it that I would like to supplement his once-weekly Hebrew school. Everyone thinks I have a future rabbi on my hands...possibly the first Irish/Chinese/Jewish fellow to pursue that position? (yep, I always said my kids were destined to be smart because tgey are mutts, and aren't mixed breed dogs supposed to possess greater intelligence?--TOTALLY kidding, in case my attempt at humor is not interpreted as such!)

[eilonwy]

Rynna, it must be very tough with BooBah emulating her bro but unable to measure up...I have this at my house, but to a much lesser degree because my children are 3.5 years apart. So, it is mostly the case that dd understands the differences between her brother and her. However, particularly with physical stunts, it seems that she can come very close to being able to do what he does by observing for just a few minutes. For instance, ds started Tae Kwon Do a few weeks ago. He is just getting to the point where he feels confident enough to show me some of his stuff at home. He is into teaching his sister what he learns, and MAN, she gets it instantly. All the forms and poses, jumps, spins, Korean vocalizations...I can sit on the couch and watch their performance all day.

How cool! When it comes to most physical activities, BooBah is the one who's teaching BeanBean. Her gross motor skills are a total mystery to me... she must have inherited them from my youngest sister, I was never all that coordinated. :lol I can still remember working such things out logically, rather than physically. :nut BooBah, however, has this natural instinct for physical movement. Outside of the swimming pool (where BeanBean excells) BooBah definately comes out ahead. :thumb The thing is, everything that she shows BeanBean, he picks up right away. He needs to practice, though, and he's not as fearless/trusting as she is with most things. It's like, he'll watch her and figure out what she's doing, but he's afraid when he does it himself... and he doesn't have the natural feel for it. Sort of like Dink asking Ender to demonstrate his "lying on his back" attack; he saw it and saw that it was cool and worked, but didn't understand what he was actually looking at or what Ender was really doing...

Dd is suddenly interested in classifying everything according to "big" and "little." Now she is really reminding me of her brother! She's been using the words "big" and "little" (and huge, small, and tiny, and teeny-tiny...as well as probably other synonyms that now escape me) for months, but now she's asking the rhetorical, "Is ______ big or little?" and answering it herself. I was sure she's consider her big brother "big," but no, she knows he's little!

OMG, BeanBean has been doing this too, only he's classifying everyone as a baby, little kid, big kid, punk kid (:blush this is what I call teenagers/people in their early 20's who aren't "adults") and grownups. Mike and I are grownups, BeanBean (3) is a little kid, ChibiChibi (8) is a big kid, BeastieBeast (5) is a big kid sometimes and a little kid sometimes (which makes sense; she can do all sorts of things, but she needs a lot of supervision because she has no sense of danger), my sister (24) is a punk kid. All of this makes sense, until you get to his aunt, SIL (39). "Aunt SIL is a big kid," he declared on Wednesday. "Really? She's not a grownup?" "No, she has very noisy toys and that makes her a big kid." :spitdrink :lol When I told Mike about he just about fell over laughing. :lol I can hardly wait to tell SIL, who will no doubt agree. :lol

Rynna, I too am interested in how you're approaching Torah study. Ds borders on religious fanaticism at times ;) at least compared to my significantly laid back feel about it...but he is so into it that I would like to supplement his once-weekly Hebrew school. Everyone thinks I have a future rabbi on my hands...possibly the first Irish/Chinese/Jewish fellow to pursue that position? (yep, I always said my kids were destined to be smart because tgey are mutts, and aren't mixed breed dogs supposed to possess greater intelligence?--TOTALLY kidding, in case my attempt at humor is not interpreted as such!)

Well, I thought it was hilarious, but that's probably because I'm very mixed myself. :D My kids look white to the "untrained" eye, but I look sort of generic... definately "person," but I'm one of those people that other people look at and see exactly what they want to see or just a big old question mark. :confused: :lol

Torah Study! One of the Jewish moms here pointed me to a site called Torah Tots, which lets you know the parsha of the week and has some fun parsha related activities. It's a Tzivos Hashem site, so it's from Lubavitch (not everything may apply if you're not frum/observant) but it does give me a jumping off point. :thumb I've been looking at that and reading the appropriate stories to BeanBean, chock full of my own commentary... I'll have to find & add some links tonight. It's fun stuff. :D I'm trying to get into the habit of saying a bracha (she'ha'kol, because we don't keep kosher) before we eat; BeanBean has it mostly memorized, even though I forget as often as I remember. :blush I'm still looking for a fun way to start teaching him some Hebrew. :scratch Other than his own name and his sister's, he really doesn't know all that much. :bag:

[Henry's_Mamma]

I'm re-introducing myself here. I'm Amy, mamma to 25 month old Henry, who we believe may be at least a little gifted. What he does, says, and remembers amazes me, and he's precocious if nothing else. When I see him around his peers, it is clear that he is "different." And many adults (and our ped.) have commented on his smarts. In fact, at his 2 year appt., where we saw a new to us dr., she was impressed with him and asked us what we were doing and I sorta shrugged my shoulders because I really don't know. I'm just parenting him and meeting him where he's at. I'm really beginning to think that a whole lot of parents don't do that at all, and certainly never talk to their kids or answer their questions.

Anyway, we've been looking at 2.5 year old pre-school programs for next fall (mostly for socialization, but a little for "academics"), and I've been getting a lot of looks for asking the "how would you address the needs of my kid who is doing x already." Some of these teachers think I am pushing him and we're merely following his lead. I've even been asked if he knows how to play (under the presumption that all I do is push him academically) which he clearly does do and does more so of independently everyday. The judging is really starting to irk me though. I have had great success with the Montessori programs and have received a ton of wonderful ideas and support. However, we think it is out of our budget for next year, so we're strongly looking to "homeschool" pre-school. In all honesty, I'd like to homeschool through at least part of elementary school, but dh is adamently against it. But even one of the Montessori teachers said that it may be our only choice in order to meet his needs.

This leads me to some questions ... ds is desperately trying to read. I'm trying to help him but realize my phonics need some brushing up on (I just sort of "got" reading, so I'm not sure I ever really learned the phonics rules). He understands that different letters and combinations of letters make different sounds, and he can "sound out" words (sounds out the individual letters but doesn't merge them to form a word), but I need to take him to the next level and help him organize his thinking a little. (He's really all over the place, and I think it is frustrating him.) We've done some starfall, but I'd like something a little more concrete and organized that I can do with him one on one. Any recommendations on reading curriculums, even from the standpoint of just helping me?

We're also going to start introducing some Montessori stuff in our home. I'm thinking of a designated area that will have some Montessori materials that I will rotate in and out every week or two, depending on his interest and mastery. Have any of you done this?

I look forward to lurking and occasionally posting. I so enjoy reading about your amazing kids. :D

[ChristaN]

I'm just posting briefly to sub to this thread! The other one was getting long. Henry's_mama, we didn't much get the 'you much be pushing her' stuff until later so I guess that I got lucky. Either that, or I was too socially isolated and busy with grad school when they were little that I wasn't talking to enough preschool teachers to hear anything. I did have a few people tell me that dd couldn't know the things that she did b/c it was impossible at her age :rolleyes , but I just thought that they were stupid to be honest. Sorry not to have any input on how to deal with it b/c living in a closet or being judged if you choose not to is no fun.

We have dd's assessment set up for the beginning of January. I've mentioned it to her briefly and that it will help us know how she learns and help us find the best teachers for her learning style -- I don't want to tell her that we are having her IQ tested. She seems excited about the idea. She's also finally started the 45 min/week TAG reading program, which is great since she gets to do some critical thinking there. It only lasts for 6 weeks, but it's better than nothing. We're also considering switching both girls to an arts magnet charter school that is opening in our area next fall. In any case, I've got to run. I'll keep lurking and let you all know how the testing goes after it is done.

[OTMomma]

Amy- I have been doing some Montessorri activities with my dd and I think that its great for gifted kids. I wanted to share some links- I had these somewhere in the old thread, but I don't want to send you hunting through 800 posts for it! :lol
http://get-me.to/monthome
http://www.michaelolaf.net/1CWhome.html
http://www.montessorimaterials.org/index.htm

I hope it gives you some fun ideas to do with your dc. The last link has some stuff for teaching reading, though I haven't done many of them myself.

Peace,
Laura

[eilonwy]

Amy-- The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading (http://peacehillpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=9) sounds like exactly what you're looking for-- a phonics-based approach which is very organized and logical. :thumb You can move through it at any speed (as you can with any home education materials) and even if you're going very slowly, you'll feel like you're making progress. My only problem with this book is that I can't possibly see it being a reasonable approach to take with a child any older than 4, 5 tops. :lol As with First Language Lessons for the Well-Trained Mind (http://peacehillpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=10), it seems to me as though it was written primarily for gifted preschool-aged children, rather than kindergarten/first graders of average ability. I'm basing this mostly on the speed of the lessons, they way everything is broken down into very tiny pieces.. It's as if it's designed for either a very young child or one with almost no attention span. :lol If I'm not explaining this well, please let me know and give me another chance... my TBP has set in. :nut :lol

Britishmum-- how old is your little man now? :shy How's school going for your girls?

BeanBean absolutely refused to sign, he just wanted to talk. He started very early and hasn't really shut up since. :lol BooBah would probably have signed if she had been the firstborn, but as it was she's always had BeanBean around as an example, so she talks. She did sign a bit for ChibiChibi, but BeanBean always refused-- if you showed him a sign and said a word, he would say the word and giggle at your moving hands. :lol

[Henry's_Mamma]

Ohhhh.....thank you for the links and ideas.

We signed with ds. He still signs certain words even though he says them simultaneously (like Please :love or when he's trying to convince me that a yes would be a better answer than the no I'm giving him) and says others that he also knows the signs for. But if you quiz him on signs, he remembers them all and still enjoys learning new ones. I'm excited b/c the next 3 volumes of Signing Time are coming out. :bag: I look at it as the ground work (brain work, if you will) for a second language, so I'm trying to make an effort to do it more with him. Then again, ds didn't say much until he was about 19 months old (although had a 100 plus signing vocab), and he hasn't shut up since. :lol

[Emeline]

Henry's mama - I wish I could offer some advice, but how ds learned to read is a mystery to me. Honestly, I never even read that much to him, maybe a book or two at bedtime, but not even every night. When he was just turning a year or so he started reading words, at least that's when I realized it, he could have been doing it for awhile before that because by the time I realized it he was really quite good. He was reading words on books, signs, food boxes, in the newpaper, ect... I hadn't really been a part of his learning process up until then so I figured he was doing fine on his own:shrug. By 18 months he could read almost anything, although I obviously had to be careful about what material was left around for him to read. I remember when we went in for his 18 month checkup and while I was checking us in he started reading a magazine article about some awful overseas tragedy. I got the strangest looks from another mom in the waiting room when I put all the magazines up on a shelf where he couldn't read them. I told her "I'm sorry if you wanted to look at those, they just aren't appropriate for an 18 month old to read!":irked:. A little research and a good librarian at our local library helped me find some appropriate reading material for him. It's tough when your just turned 2 year old reads at a 7th grade level :( . However at newly 4 we're running out of books on the list to read so I'm going to have to have another research session and schedule a pow wow with the librarian again.

The books the others reccommended sound good, I'd give them a try!

[eilonwy]

On one of these threads, we made lists of books for very young children who read... :scratch I can't even remember which one, though. :lol Perhaps we should do it again? :innocent

[eilonwy]

I had another question, one about homeschooling... anyone have any ideas/suggestions for keeping the BooBah amused at *her* level (behind BeanBean but nothing like 18 months)?

[USAmma]

Amy-- The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading (http://peacehillpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=9) sounds like exactly what you're looking for-- a phonics-based approach which is very organized and logical. :thumb You can move through it at any speed (as you can with any home education materials) and even if you're going very slowly, you'll feel like you're making progress. My only problem with this book is that I can't possibly see it being a reasonable approach to take with a child any older than 4, 5 tops. :lol As with

I am using this right now with my just-turned-5yo and she is about halfway through it and her reading has really taken off! She is reading everything! This approach seems very bland and boring but she is responding well and likes it. I can't believe how well she's reading compared to even a couple of mos ago. I do only 10 minutes a day with this book and I stopped using the word cards out of laziness.

I'm about to start spelling lessons with her since she's writing a lot and always asking me how to spell things.

[USAmma]

On one of these threads, we made lists of books for very young children who read... :scratch I can't even remember which one, though. :lol Perhaps we should do it again? :innocent

Bob Books are great! My dd started reading those at a young 3, and worked her way through all of them before we started formal phonic lessons. It gave her a real taste of success and she enjoyed the stories and simple pictures.

[allgirls]

I signed a bit with Sophia..her first sign was milk at 5 mos...but she started talking soon thereafter and said every word she signed after about 7 mos so I stopped adding new signs after a while.

[eilonwy]

I am using this right now with my just-turned-5yo and she is about halfway through it and her reading has really taken off! She is reading everything! This approach seems very bland and boring but she is responding well and likes it. I can't believe how well she's reading compared to even a couple of mos ago. I do only 10 minutes a day with this book and I stopped using the word cards out of laziness.

I'm about to start spelling lessons with her since she's writing a lot and always asking me how to spell things.

It does seem very bland, because it's cut into such small pieces... it's like, phonics puree. :lol That's why I can't picture a child "with teeth" wanting anything to do with it, kwim? :lol

What are you planning to use for spelling? :innocent

[Velveteen]

For those of you looking for a good phonics program for your young child, I LOVE 'Sing, Spell, Read, and Write' by Pearson Learning. You can look up Pearson learning and see the materials.

I ordered mine from www.singnlearn.com

[teachma]

Dd made me smile earlier today and I wanted to share. We were sitting on the couch together, and I was reading her a book ds had borrowed this week from the school library. Dd asked me for her cup of water, wanting to drink it on the living room couch. I told her it was on the dining room table and she needed to drink it in there, and she apparentlly got very angry with my suggestion because she shouted, "NO!" and grabbed the book off my lap and hauled it across the room. I put on a sad expression and told her that we don't throw books, that it made me sad to see her treat a library book that way. She began to scream, "Read at me!" (which is how she says, "Read to me.") I tried to impress upon her that I was sad about her having thrown the book. She stopped screaming, composed herself, went over to select a different book and said sweetly, "Read at me you feel happy again, Mommy." I couldn't resist! I first asked her to pick up the book she had thrown, which she did. (So different from her brother in that respect.) Just wanted to share a cute story!

About spelling and reading...I feel so strange to say this, but I make up all the stuff ds and I do together. He likes worksheets I write out on blank paper. For spelling, we have done word families, phonics based. We worked, for example, on words with 'ee' and next, I might do 'ea' with the long e sound. He is finally starting to enjoy learning from me, but I credit his kindergarten teacher with igniting that spark.

[mamaverdi]

subbing. wondered where the other thread went. duh.

eating and typing. Ha: eat.

Anyway...

We love Artemis Fowl! And LITTLE BEAR my 20 mo who still is not talking goes and gets the book for us to read to him! :throb

Older ds is loving school and starting to decode words. Some he seems to have known (I figured) and others he is figuring out. I'm feeling so guilty lately that dealing with all of Little Bear's health issues has really put Ds1 (who doesn't even have a pseudonym...hmmm....need one...will think about it) on the slow track. It seems like it was just yesterday he was 3 and asking me about circuits. I really wish I had done more, but I got so caught up in (a) believing some doofuses who said he was too young to learn this or that and (b) then dealing with Little Bear's health issues.... Arggg....the guilt. He seems to be catching up to where I think he would have been at 4ish had we not got side swiped by stupid advice and big fat shock of Little Bear's problems.

So....can't remember why I started talking about that. Anyway...

I'm still not totally thrilled with the G/T school, but there are two reasons primarily: they don't get that we are Jews, not Christians, and it's really far from our house....near where hardly any Jews live, so no wonder.

Most of my issues with the school revolve around those two things. Like could they stop having him to Xmas projects? Do they just not get it? And what about feeding him crap that is either just plain crap or not kosher? (I would say it's more important to him than to me that he eats Kosher food---and I do mean Very Kosher.) Oy.

I would love to see your Torah education thread when you get it running Rynna.

mv

[eilonwy]

I'm still not sure where to put that thread... I'm leaning towards Learning at Home and Beyond, but I don't want it to get moved to Spirituality or Religious Studies... :scratch

I've heard lots about the Bob Books, and even seen some of them in real life, but our library doesn't have them. :( It's quite a bummer, because I think that they're just BeanBean's speed. :thumb They're third or fourth on the never-ending "List of Home Education Things" to purchase, should I ever encounter spare cash. :lol

[mamaverdi]

I think it would qualify truly as Religious Studies though.

The BOB books, I don't know, I can't stand 'em. :hide: I do have these books though with pretty simple stuff that my MIL sent me that she got for free. Maybe we all could do a little freecycle on this list?

mv

[mamaverdi]

Oh, and we signed with ds1. He loved it. He still does. Even though he was talking at 6 months. He would sign milk and then say, "Can I have nursies please mama?" And then when he wanted to switch sides he would sign more milk and then say "Second side please mama" (which he conveniently shortened to "side" so as not too take too much time away from nursing). :lol

mv

[eilonwy]

Oh, and we signed with ds1. He loved it. He still does. Even though he was talking at 6 months. He would sign milk and then say, "Can I have nursies please mama?" And then when he wanted to switch sides he would sign more milk and then say "Second side please mama" (which he conveniently shortened to "side" so as not too take too much time away from nursing). :lol

mv

:lol BeanBean learned to say, "May I please have the other side nursie?" so quickly as to be unintelligible to most casual listeners. :lol He also learned, however, that it would take much longer to get to the nursies if he didn't ask like a person. :o It didn't take him long to figure out that when I told him to ask politely, I meant it. :blush

BooBah was just barely saying "May I please have a nursie?" when she weaned... *sigh* My big girl!

[Girl Named Sandoz]

Ds really likes the BOB books. I really didn't think he would when I first saw them (very simple line drawings, very simple plots) but he does.

[eilonwy]

Okay, I started a Jewish Homeschoolers (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=4301589#post4301589) thread in Learning at Home and Beyond; if it gets moved, it gets moved (but I hope it doesn't!). I'm still trying to figure out why some such threads get moved and others don't, I'm not sure that I've got it quite right... for example, the Conservative Mammas thread was moved out of Finding Your Tribe, but I'm pretty sure that the Liberal Mammas are still over there. The Christian Mammas threads have all been moved from FYT, but I know that the Jewish Mammas thread is still there.. in fact, I vaguely remember a mod coming over and saying that the thread had been reviewed and was deemed appropriate for Finding Your Tribe, but I can't for the life of me remember what criteria she used to make that determination... :scratch

Then there's the fact that I've never seen a Christian Homeschoolers support thread in LaHaB; has there ever been one, and if so, was *it* moved? :shrug

I'm sure that I'm overthinking this.... :nut

**:love Conversations with Babies :love**

BeanBean: "Mamma, remember when I asked you to call me Afoo Gafoo Lick?"
Me: "Yeah..."
BeanBean (licking me quickly): "I think you should do it again! Afoo Gafoo Lick has returned!" :lol

**
This morning, BooBah bit me very hard. I screamed (probably louder than I needed to, but OW!) and put her down. "NO BITING MAMMA! THAT HURTS!"

BeanBean: "What happened, mamma?"
Me: "BooBah bit me!"
BeanBean (quietly, seriously): "Oh, mamma. I will give you a kiss, but you can't yell at my sister, all right?"
Me: "Okay. But it *hurts*."
BeanBean: "Yeah." (kisses booboo)
BeanBean (very tenderly to BooBah, who is still crying hysterically): "BooBah, you cannot bite Mamma, that hurts. You understand me?"
BooBah: "No."
BeanBean: "Yes you do, you understand not to bite. Now snuggle with Mamma, and no more biting."

:throb Couldn't you just melt? :love What a doll!

[loraxc]

We signed some with Froglet, but she never had very many signs (maybe 20-30?) because she started picking up spoken words so fast. The signs were useful, though, for words she could not say as a bitty toddler, like alligator and butterfly. She no longer signs at all--I think they were all gone by 16 months or so. But I loved signing.

Thanks for the Montessori links! I've started doing some of the activities with Froglet and she really enjoys them. :) I actually am incredibly drawn to all the manipulatives--like, I really, REALLY want them. Like, for ME. :o My math skills are sort of fuzzy and unevenly developed to this day, and when I look at all their math stuff all I can think is, "Now THAT is how I should have learned math! Look how perfect it is!"

Froglet seems to be concentrating on music and fine motor skills right now. When she was smaller I thought she wasn't going to be all that into music, but now I'm thinking I was wrong. We went to a party last night with a live band (fiddles, mandolin and bass), and she was totally transfixed--just stood and stared intently at them the whole time they were playing. She is also singing all day long--the thing I love is that she changes the words around, just like we have always done. Yesterday it was, "All around the cobbler's bench the baby chased the car frog...the baby thought it was all in fun...POP! goes the car frog!" ("Car frog" = her stuffed Kermit. We used to call him car frog because he used to live in the car.) She's also starting to make "jokes," which slays me.

[USAmma]

It does seem very bland, because it's cut into such small pieces... it's like, phonics puree. :lol That's why I can't picture a child "with teeth" wanting anything to do with it, kwim? :lol

What are you planning to use for spelling? :innocent

That's a great description! :lol

Here's a copy/paste from my journal about what we are doing with Abi starting in January.

------------
She's whizzed right through Kindergarten and is finishing up most of her books right now. We are ordering more for the first of the year. We are both having fun with this, and as long as it continues to be fun, we will continue to do it. Although she's really looking forward to being "of age" next year and able to join her friends in the CasaVida Homeschool Enrichment Program.

With all subjects, she only does about 10-15 mins per subject, and as always, is allowed to self-pace. We will do science and art once a week.

Math-U-See Alpha

Zaner-Bloser Handwriting, Grade 1

The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading
(she's about halfway through this book. We will continue, and when that's finished we will start First Language Lessons.)

McGuffey's Eclectic Readers
The special thing about these is they are the same books my grandmother used when she was learning to read! I have a couple of her old ones and it will be fun to show Abi my grandmother's name in the front cover of them.

Spelling Workout Grade 1

Kingfisher First Animal Encyclopedia

Kingfisher First Human Body Encyclopedia

And I haven't decided on a book yet, but we will be studying plants later in the year, too.

For the Holidays, she's getting an earth worm farm! She loves worms. It comes with a study kit with different experiments like soil studies, how worms respond to light, and so on. I have sent off for the worms and will get them in the mail sometime soon. Later in the year we'll get a butterfly kit.

[eilonwy]

That's so cool, it sounds like Abi and BeanBean are doing some similar things. :thumb I wonder if Zaner Bloser makes a kindergarten handwriting book... :scratch I also wonder if I'll be able to find it on eBay. :D

[USAmma]

That's so cool, it sounds like Abi and BeanBean are doing some similar things. :thumb I wonder if Zaner Bloser makes a kindergarten handwriting book... :scratch I also wonder if I'll be able to find it on eBay. :D

They actually do have Level K if you go to the website www.zaner-bloser.com . They are all $10 plus $5 s&h. Amazon might have them, too. Handwriting Without Tears is another popular writing program. :) I am not sure you would find it on ebay since the children write in the actual books, unless someone changed their mind about it after buying.

[teachma]

I like Handwriting Without Tears for beginning writers. (In case you wanted the teacher perspective ;) ) However, this program comes with suggested supplemental stuff to buy, like straight and curved wooden blocks that can be put together to form the alphabet letters, little chalk boards for them to practice...and I know you aren't looking to make lots of purchases. Ds's K class will be starting this program in January, about which I am very glad. Although he knows how to form each capital and lowercase letter to look correct, he doesn't always approach them in the right way (ie starts on the bottom for many of them). My old school also used this program, and the K teachers were very happy with it.

[Velveteen]

We use handwriting without tears in our homeschool, and I am very happy with it!
We did not purchase any supplemental supplies, I did not know they were available, and we have not needed them.
My ds is enjoying the preschool books of Handwriting Without Tears, and my other son is doing the cursive books.

[eilonwy]

Would you mind doing a bit of comparing for me? :shy What is it about HWT that makes you prefer it over ZB?

I actually found the ZB handwriting book which introduces cursive writing (second grade, maybe?) unused on eBay for ChibiChibi last year; I bought it only because I was looking for something inexpensive and Chibi was desperate to learn to write in script. :thumb In other words, I didn't do too much research into the subject. What little I've read suggests that I need to be careful when it comes to introducing handwriting to BeanBean because boys in particular tend to have issues with it, and BeanBean's fine motor coordination is excellent but not exceptional, iykwim; I've got no reason to believe that handwriting will come easily to him.

[Velveteen]

Have you heard about Mary Prides Big Book of Homeschooling? She describes and rates many, many homeschooling materials and this is where I became familiar with HWT. I have not used the ZB materials, but they come highly reccomended as well. I think it is a matter of preference only. But, since I have boys and handwriting is not their favorite thing, this has worked out well.
HWT was written by a mom who had a son who HATED writing. I think it is particularily nice for boys.



P.S. anyone here have a gifted partner? Or is that a whole separate thread? :)

[eilonwy]

P.S. anyone here have a gifted partner? Or is that a whole separate thread? :)

There's a sporadically active Gifted Adults tribe over in FYT; the subject of partners has come up there at least once. :thumb

[tuffykenwell]

I would say that DS and DD both have gifted tendancies (mainly in verbal and math...a lot like I was as a child). DS does have many of the "markers" in that he was "reading" at 2 1/2 (not actually reading...he has memorized many of his books so can recite them from memory). He has perfectionist tendancies (can I just say that I find those feeding on my OWN perfectionist tendancies and I have to take "bunny breaths" about 50 times a day so that we don't feed off each other in this area), long attention span, intense reactions to stimuli and a great sense of humour. He doesn't have the reduced need for sleep though (but unfortunately DD does...sigh...she is phasing out her last nap at 13 months old and I am in mourning...DS STILL gets a nap many days at 3 1/2!!

I have to make a decision about school for DS in the fall and I am so conflicted. I hated school...bored me stiff and taught me to get by with the least effort possible and I really don't want DS learning all of those bad habits and being bored all day long...but I haven't yet decided if I am organized enough to homeschool and do it justice (or at the very least...do a better job then school would).

DD appears to be on track to meet or exceed the standards set by DS and quite frankly I am skeered ;)

Steph

[NoHiddenFees]

What is it about HWT that makes you prefer it over ZB?HWT is typically characterized as being better for kids with fine motor issues. It is very light on drill: A typical lesson in Letters and Numbers for Me (Kindergarten) has the child write fewer than a dozen letters. DD1 finished the first book, did about a month's worth of review and copy work and is now about halfway through the second. She can't do a lot of writing because her hand gets tired quickly and I'd rather not make that an issue for her. We like the short lessons.

The big drawback is that it is not an attractive script, though DD1 has started to pick up a few flourishes from watching me. There are lots of recommended accessories, but most aren't necessary. A ream of paper is nice (HWT doesn't use tradtional three lined ruled paper); you could do without the teacher's guides, or just get one (they are very similar); the chalkboards are inexpensive and useful; the patterns for the wooden letter components (big line, short line, big curve, small curve) can be found in the K teacher's manual and made from felt or construction paper (or even sandpaper, for a Montessori touch).

[eilonwy]

This is just a random, "Wow kids are cool, and I think mine is especially cool!" post. :lol

Somewhat relevant to the post: The first poem in First Language Lessons for the Well-Trained Mind is called The Caterpillar. It is short, cute, and has made an everlasting impression on BeanBean. :thumb

Sunday morning, while Mike was at work (yay overtime!) I decided to take a nice bath with BooBah. BeanBean elected to stay in the living room/bedroom. About ten minutes into the bath, BeanBean comes waltzing in holding "The Very Hungry Caterpillar;" he's got it open to the page which reads, "That night, he had a stomachache." Apparently the word "stomachache" was one that he couldn't read/didn't remember. :love At any rate, he says to me, "Mamma, that caterpillar looks so sad!" "Yeah, he does, but look at all the crap that he ate!" He nodded as we went through the junk food which the caterpillar had consumed; cake, ice cream, etc. BeanBean was still bummed out that the caterpillar looked so upset. "Let's turn the page and see what happens next," I suggested. "The next day, the little caterpillar chewed through a nice, green leaf. He felt much better." :love "Ah hah!" I said, "he got some real food, and he felt better." "Leaves are real food for caterpillars.." BeanBean nodded slowly, his eyes widening suddenly. "That's why he's taking that 'walk to the shady leaf or stalk!!' To get some real food!" BeanBean shrieked with laughter and ran out of the bathroom, looking for First Language Lessons (which he couldn't find, because it was still in my backpack; he insisted on bringing it down so that he could "talk to Aunt SIL about nouns" :lol). :love He actually called me out of the bathtub to get FLL so that he could "read" The Caterpillar, and has been telling anyone who will listen that leaves are real food for caterpillars.

He also sorted out that caterpillars are like kids and butterflies are like mommies and daddies-- "I am an Eli-caterpillar. I need to get some real food and spin and die to live again a Mamma-butterfly." :love Argh, if I hadn't been so averse to sweets during the pregnancy, I would swear that he was made of sugar!! :lol :love

[mamaverdi]

Caterpillars really "die to live again"? This sounds not right (wondering if I have a book somewhere about this...gonna google). I'm assuming it's from the poem.

He is sooooo sweet though. :throb

Sorry, groggy, my baby has a fever again 3rd time in a week, morning-head.

mv

[eilonwy]

The poem:

The Caterpillar
Christina G. Rosetti

Brown and furry,
caterpillar in a hurry.
Take your walk
to the shady leaf or stalk.

May no toad spy you,
may the little birds pass by you.
Spin and die,
to live again, a butterfly.


Caterpillars don't actually die when they spin their cocoons; they simply go into stasis for their pupal stage. :thumb It's a metaphor, one which BeanBean apparently "gets," to a certain extent. Then again, BeanBean may simply be unaware that death is (generally considered) a permanent state of being. :shrug

[USAmma]

I wanted to show of my dd's letter to Santa. She did it all by herself except to ask me how to spell a couple of things. I never pushed the Santa thing. Last year she was skeptical about it but this year she wants to believe and I'm not going to confirm or deny it.

She chooses to make her letters look more typed than printed. Like she does a, t, and 1 the same way that they appear typed right here. She is conflicted and was alternating it until I told her it was okay to make them the fancier way if she wanted to, as long as we could read them.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5cc24b3127cce95e2660905a800000016108IbNWLVu1bW

[eilonwy]

Letters and Numbers for Me-- one more thing for The List. :thumb

Once the holidays are over (yeah, all of them :lol) I think I'll start a homeschool supply swap over in the swaps & coops forum. :thumb I'm sure that someone has something I could use, and I may have things that they could use... so it's all good, right? I've never done it before, but there's got to be a first time for everything. :lol Besides, I know a kid who desperately needs a copy of The Teenage Liberation Handbook (though she doesn't know it yet). :lol

I wonder if I could start a local swap for services, like have someone come in and speak Spanish to my kids for a few hours in exchange for some math tutoring or something. :scratch Reading TTLH has brought something to my attention which I have always known but have never really thought of as particularly useful: I've actually got a hell of a lot of skills. :D Skills that other people would be really glad to have around, if they knew about them. Like, the ability to do algebra in my sleep, and a very extensive knowledge of biology & chemistry. :lol I'm still not sure how I'd go about doing it, but I think that it's something I'll add to my "List of Things to Do Before I'm Thirty." Damned if I won't be 30 in less than two years... time to get crackin'! :laugh:

So is everyone having fun getting ready for/dealing with the holidays? :shy

[mamaverdi]

Dd - I think he's a person. I prefer it that way. (and walks off)


:lol

Sorry about the trauma. I'm with you. I spent my birthday at the ped's office for the 2nd time in the last two weeks, plus one trip to the ER. So far, they have yet to find why Little Bear is running a fever....an on and off fever. It's a little crazy making.

Turned 30 today. Lots of things I haven't done before now. Alas.

Oh, I did understand it was a metaphor. Majored in poetry writing/literature analysis and all in college. And French. Anyway, thing is, it seems a little um religious to me. And I was surprised by it being from the book it was in. Don't know why...I haven't seen their books other than TWTM, and it seems pretty WASPish to me. But seeing that it's C. Rossetti....well, it doesn't seem all that surprising after that.

:shrug

I still think it's cool that BeanBean made that association.

We've got the steal-trap well oiled over here with DS1 not "in school" for 2 weeks. I swear if he asks one more time "When is Hanukkah?" Oy! How many times do I have to say Hanukkah is not Xmas?! Guess I'm not fairing too well with the "holidays."

mv

[catgirl]

:lol


Turned 30 today.
mv

Happy birthday!

I remember the day you were born - it was my 18th birthday!

[mamaverdi]

Cool Penny! I only know a little boy who shares my birthday. Very cool. Happy Birthday to you too!

mv

[eilonwy]

MV & catgirl-- happy birthday. :thumb

I'm sorry to hear that your little guy is sick again/still. :hug That totally sucks... Our last trip to the ER wasn't a sick visit; BooBah had swallowed something that was making it difficult for her to breathe or nurse or eat. :blush I feel quite privileged that the kids' most recent illnesses have been very minor, and quickly recovered-from.

My head is all twisted and tired... I was so happy this morning, but right now I'm just miserable. It's probably because my teeth hurt... :shake

I think that TWTM tries harder than most curricula to be religiously open, but it was definately written by Christians and tends to attract Christians of liberal and conservative persuasion. It's easily adaptable, for the most part, but there are things missing here and there that I have to work on (esp. wrt SotW :shake) in order to make them, in my mind, acceptable for presentation to my children. "The Caterpillar" struck me as somewhat metaphysical, and not totally out of line. The second poem, "Work," seems... well, out of line with my personal philosophy, and we'll just keep it at that; we definately won't use that one. I haven't made a decision about "Hearts are Like Doors" yet, I'm leaning towards no, and the adaptation of the days of the week nursery rhyme is not as Christian as the original, but it's unsettling to me so I'll probably use a different days of the week poem for Bean.

I'm going to start working on The Four Questions with BeanBean, too; I think I'll slip the first one in instead of "Work." :lol

[mamaverdi]

Oh no poor BoohBah! What was it she swallowed.

Thanks for the hug. I can't believe he is still sick. I'm trying to avoid it actually. I don't know what's going on. They did find he was anemic. Evidently they found that in UM August, but said nothing to me. My ped was on maternity leave and was VERY unhappy that this had no been addressed. Time to break out the blackstrap molasses....funny, he has developed a taste for kid's coffee lately!

Sorry about your teeth. Do you know what the problem is?

Yeah, well, a lot of books are written by Christians for attracting Christian audiences. Some of my more liberal Christianity-praciticing relatives think that this book or that will be oh so enjoyable to me, and um, they totally aren't. If I get one more lecture about some financial guy---well let's just say I'll flip.

Love the Four Questions. Probably plenty of other good poems about work, but don't know how appropriate they would be for little 'uns, even smarty ones.

We just finished reading 2nd Lemony Snickett book tonight, and I think it was scarier than the first. Don't konw if I want to read the 3rd to DS1. I like Artemis Fowl better...less holes too. I mean, what fabulously wealthy people do you know who would leave their children in the hands of "someone related to them" without SPECIFIYING AND make the executor of their will someone who apppears to have been their accountant? Huh? Just doesn't make sense. Too many holes makes me crazy. Crazy I tell you. THEY ARE ALL ONE OCEAN! STOP ASKING ME THIS NONESENSE!

/rant

mv

[USAmma]

Ha! 2 kids just had stomache virus so have been cleaning up poop and toilets for days. Washing machine chose this week to breakdown too. Then things were looking up until we ended up spending all day yesterday in ER with dd#2 who knocked herself out fallimg off a kitchen chair. She's fine now but I think I'm traumatised :rolleyes

Oooh my goodness! I'm so sorry!!

[USAmma]

We are raising our children to be Hindu, and in Hinduism "God" has many forms. We have taught Abi that "God" is the generic term and specific forms of God have specific names and attributes, like Ganesha. So far the use of "God" in literature has not been a problem. I can see how it would be harder for a non-religious person.

Yesterday Abi had a 5 year physical, and the nurse asked, "So are you ready for Christmas?" and Abi said, "We don't celebrate Christmas. We celebrate Winter." We've had a small talk about the fact that we are not Christian and that's a Christian holiday, but have not gone further than that yet. I do believe that children should be taught at some point what other people in the world believe, and we will study the Bible someday, along with other sacred texts.

[mamaverdi]

It's not G-d in literature that is a problem for me. OR my child knowing about other religions. It's that Xianity is SO pervasive, and so often confused with Judaism. For instance, "The Bible"---is a Christian thing. The Torah, or the Tanach is Jewish.

As clever as Dragon Boy (DS1) is, as much as he gets, he is part of a culture that believes primarily in Xianity. I don't want him confused about what we believe in vs. what other people believe in.

I want his ethics and morals to come from Judaism. And I think what kind of literature he reads etc informs that.

:shrug I'm not being very clear I think.

[eilonwy]

It's not G-d in literature that is a problem for me. OR my child knowing about other religions. It's that Xianity is SO pervasive, and so often confused with Judaism. For instance, "The Bible"---is a Christian thing. The Torah, or the Tanach is Jewish.

As clever as Dragon Boy (DS1) is, as much as he gets, he is part of a culture that believes primarily in Xianity. I don't want him confused about what we believe in vs. what other people believe in.

I want his ethics and morals to come from Judaism. And I think what kind of literature he reads etc informs that.

:shrug I'm not being very clear I think.

:hug I totally hear you, I'm in exactly the same spot... only with much more vocal Christian relatives, and a husband who is about to drive me completely insane... hence the Jewish homeschoolers thread. :thumb

BooBah actually asked me for coffee this morning! :lol If I hadn't been so late (I had an appointment, but woke up at 8:30 instead of 6:30 when Mike was supposed to do it :irked) I'd have given her a cup then. :thumb I just love that it's so freaking cheap and good for you. :thumb

Stomach viruses really suck! I still remember seeing the first diaper from one such virus and literally digging through change to buy sposies because there was no way in hell I was washing any more of those. :gross :nono :shake :lol Even the most die-hard cloth users would have to agree that there is a time and a place for sposies, and two children and a husband with the same wicked stomach virus certainly qualifies! :lol

What did BooBah swallow? :lol The easier question to answer is what *didn't* she swallow-- she's got PICA and eats things all the time. :shake In that particular instance, what she had swallowed was a fragment of a small, old pocketbook which had belonged to my grandmother. I'm not sure how to explain it, but the thing was made of small, enamel-covered metal discs which were linked together; she had swallowed about a half-dozen linked discs (the pocketbook has been much loved by BeanBean for the past two years, so it was falling apart). I thought that it was a penny (not her first) and wasn't too worried-- until she tried to nurse and was unable to swallow. :( She rejected her dinner (very uncharacteristic, BooBah loves to eat) and tried to drink from a cup but ended up screaming instead, so I took her to the ER. By the time they did the x-rays, it had passed into her stomach, but apparently it had bruised something on the way down, because she was still breathing funny. :nut

ChibiChibi insisted on listening to the first Lemony Snickett book on CD in the car. It was very disturbing to her, and she had nightmares; after that, I deemed Lemony Snickett "inappropriate for ChibiChibi." She was irritated at first, but she moved on in a hurry when I let her take a new book on disc from the library the very next day. :lol

[USAmma]

Abi has pretty much figured it all out and she knows it's somewhat taboo. My dh is not really glad that she knows everything because he's so modest that he wouldn't even hold my hand for the first 5 years of marriage. When I was pg with Abi he waited until my 3rd trimester to tell work, because "then they would know what we've been doing." :lol

Anyway, the The Kingfisher First Human Body Encyclopedia came in the mail today and Abi was sitting in her room at bedtime reading it to herself. She called out, "Daddy, I have a question for you!" He went in there and I followed out of curiosity. She had the page open to reproduction and pointed to the sperm and said, "Is that sperm? Like the kind you have in your body?" and he said yes. Then she asked about the picture of the sperm and egg joining and he explained it. Then the kicker: "Daddy did you put your penis inside mommy's vagina so the sperm could go into her body?" He's dark but oh boy was he blushing! He said "yeah, it's private Abi, we don't talk about it, okay?" But I know that she's just going to keep talking about it with him since she got a reaction out if him.

Anyone else's younger kids figure out the facts of life?

[lckrause]

Anyone else's younger kids figure out the facts of life?

I pre-empted embarrassing questions by teaching them the facts of life from a very young age. :lol We have a copy of "A Child is Born" and we used to look through it all the time when they were little.

That letter your daughter wrote is adorable. :) She has awesome penmanship.

[eilonwy]

BeanBean knows about sperm and eggs, and knows that when he gets older sperm will come out of his penis, but he hasn't made the whole penis-vagina connection yet. :lol I don't think it'll be a big deal when he does, because we aren't big blushers. :D

Something funny and semi-related-- when asked to define what makes someone a brother or a sister, he will answer "growing inside the same uterus." :laugh: He actually told my mother, "Nanny, did you know that BooBah is my sister because she grew in Mamma's uterus and I did, too?" She turned purple, it was hilarious!!

[lovemyboy]

Thank you all for sharing those learning to read books. DS just turned 3 and is dieing to learn to read. He gets so frustrated that he can't read. The problem is that he is a phonetic reader and I am a sight reader. I think I'm going to give the Ordinary Parents Guide to Teaching Reading a try. Off to check the library...

[Marco Esquandolas]

Can I ask some q's here? hmmm, must admit I thought this thread was odd placement in special needs, but I guess either no forum captured this or it wasn't "tribe" worthy? Gosh, it was hard enough to begin posting in sn for my sn son, which kinda overshadows the oldest, our (I presume) gifted son. I guess I'm ok to post here??? THe deal-ds #1-perfect pregnancy. he played games w/me in utero like I'd press a spot on my belly, then he'd press it, then so on. walked at 9 mos. talked at one year. talked in sentences at 18 mos. always ahead of the pack...was first in his Kindergarten class (yep, mainstream public school), and is currently still at the top of his first grade class (he's 6). Uhhh, they want to test his iq and possibly look into more specialized groups or even skipping a grade-I think all that is just too soon, but what do I know?! Should I allow the testing? Has anyone here done this and let their outside of the home schooled child skip grades? I don't quite know what to make of all this. I mean, I was the same way as a kid and I too had that option to skip grades, but didn't want to leave my friends. My parents honored my wishes. I don't think Ricky would want to skip grades and from my own experience, I'm hesitant to have his iq tested (it was QUITE the to-do in our whole town when my test results came back!!!!). dunno if I wanna open that can of worms yet. I mean really, iq's are numbers. Another means of branding and ranking. Do I really want to do that to my SIX year old?! Guidance? Advice? thoughts? BTDT? all welcome here. Thanks, mamas!!

[ChristaN]

Welcome phishmama :). My thoughts on why this is placed in the special needs forum is b/c our kiddos are different from the average norm just as children who have delays or other problems are different from the average kid and gifted children require more from a parent (at least mine sure does!).

In regard to the IQ testing, I'd only do it if you thought that it would:
1) change what you are doing for your ds (you might skip him a grade if his IQ was higher than you thought, but not if you didn't know or something like that)
or
2) he's having problems and you want to know what you are dealing with.

My younger dd may be just as bright in an IQ sense as her older sister, but she does not have the sensitivities that her sister does (or at least they are less extreme) and she is a pretty happy little kindergartener.

We are actually having dd#1's IQ tested along with a bunch of other stuff (self esteem inventory, looking for twice exceptionalities -- learning disabilities together with giftedness, etc.). The only reason that we are doing this is b/c she is so intense emotionally, has a hard time with life and tends toward depression at times b/c life is so overwhelmingly vibrant for her. She's also super happy at times, but the world is ending rather frequently too from what she says :wink . I just want some guidance in what it is we are dealing with and how best to help her navigate the rough waters of her life experience. I also am giving some thought as to whether she would be better served emotionally and intellectually by skipping a grade at some point and want to know if she has the ability to be successful with that. She has a hard time with kids her own age and I suspect that she'd fit in better with kids in the next grade up. She feels better understood and happier with older kids.

Dd is in second grade right now. I would not have her skip 3rd or 5th grade b/c there are too many new skill introduced in those years that she has not yet been taught. If you are going to consider grade skipping, I don't think that first grade would be too bad to skip over if your son is already reading at at least a 2nd grade level by the end of this year and can add and subtract and has some addition facts memorized (such as "doubles" -- 2+2=4, etc.) Second grade should be doable for a child with those basic skills and the social maturity to deal as well as the ability to sit still for long periods.

However, if your son is happy with the grade he is in and not bored, I don't think that it would hurt to wait another year and decide later. It certainly isn't now or never.

[Marco Esquandolas]

Thank you for your thoughts! See, that is how all this is even coming to be-Ricky is already seperated from his entire class b/c they normally do reading in two subgroups and he's well beyond both groups, so just for him a 3rd group was made. He's the only kid in it, though. He really looks fwd to that one on one time. Uhhh, he's even more advanced in math-we're learning to add and subtract w/negative numbers right now, and he's doing basic multiplication (already bored of addition and subtraction with pos numbers, lol). Same thing w/science. His teacher approached me about what else we could do. He's already the class captain and line leader and all that kinda stuff (the stuff that goes beyond everyone gets a turn to lead the line). I just don't want to set him up for performance issues-I recall the pressures I had as a kids to excel in everything. I don't want him to feel that pressure. I also don't want him bored in class. I want it all, I guess, lol. Good to know about the grade skipping. I mean, I could totally see him doing fine at a second grade level, probably even third grade, but that doesn't mean that he is there emotionally, kwim? I guess the testing is harmless enough. I'm just not sure what we'd do with that info. Maybe I'm copping the ignorance is bliss plea. I don't know. Lots to think about, but you're right, nothing has to be done today. I really appreciate your thoughts and info on this!

[ChristaN]

Just one more thought. You said:
I just don't want to set him up for performance issues-I recall the pressures I had as a kids to excel in everything. I don't want him to feel that pressure. I also don't want him bored in class.
That's exactly the balance that I am trying to find for dd. While she is perfectly happy to be bored to an extent b/c she loves everything coming easily and not having to work, I don't want her to have everything so easy that she never learns how to work. I see her falling into that this year and turning into a good little parrot -- she'll routinely give the answer that she knows will get a good grade rather than take a risk on a more creative answer b/c she doesn't want to risk being "wrong." I am trying to find the balance btwn not pushing her and not letting her sit in a little box and coast along without any study skills or life skills that she will need later.

[eilonwy]

:wave Welcome, phishmamma!

This thread is in Special Needs because once upon a time, many threads ago, Britishmum asked for some advice to help her cope with the intensity of her daughter's needs and Cynthia Mosher suggested that she start a thread over here. Gifted children do indeed come with special needs of their own, which are just as far outside the realm of typical (or even super crunchy :wink) parenting as are the needs of children on the other end of the spectrum, so to speak. Just as there are special needs entailed for children who are developmentally delayed, so there are special needs for children who are developmentally advanced. :D

As to your son: I say skip him, but I've got major issues about not being skipped as a child when, especially in retrospect, it was obviously what I needed to be successful and happy in school. A child who needs to be accelerated but isn't is being set up for failure, in my opinion. I think that it's a seriously unfair thing to do. As to the IQ testing, that is quite a can of worms; if it would be necessary for the skip, I'd advise you to look into who will be examining your son and under what circumstances (what test will they use, what kind of schedule, what time of day, etc), and set yourself up for the most accurate result (make sure that he gets enough sleep, eats when he's hungry, is able to use the bathroom, etc.). Some kids will not test well given certain tests and/or certain examiners, and you definately want the best possible situation all around if you have a choice.

Grade skipping is, according to the research, more beneficial and less traumatic than most people believe. Check out A Nation Deceived (www.nationdeceived.org) for lots of great info on acceleration. :thumb

[angela&avery]

i just wanted to chime in. My kiddos are by no means gifted, but definately above average, particularly dd. Both of my kids were like little people as babies. I look at my friends kids at 12 mos who are still rather flacid and bah bah babbling. Both of my kids were beginning to put sentences together by that point and walking. I remember my ds at 10 mos old laying on the ground playing with hot wheels just watching the wheels roll.... he would do this forever, I have never seen a child do this. We started with signs early so this may be why their language developed so well. My dd is just amazing to me. She turned 2 in October and just understands and says so much. She talks in full sentences, is pottytrained and loves to be read to (no she doesnt read) she learned how to count on her own, I didnt try to teach her. The kinds of things she says are unbelievable. She has been into imaginary play now for 8+ months which i think is great for her age. I get comments all the time on her language and "adultness" when we are out and about. I get a lot of "she is so smart for her age" kind of comments....

Also wanted to add my ds knew everything about the cycle of life by age 4. His friends parents are shocked that he is so insightfull and curious. He knows How babies are made, and birthed as well as all about death. He is so curious, I never expected to be explaining the bird and the bees to my 4 year old!!! He just would not stop asking questions until I told him everything.

I had a friend I met when ds was a baby at a breastfeeding group. He was so advanced as a baby (he too rolled at like 6 weeks old though everything else came in average time), and toddler that she quickly became very competitive with her little girl and I had to end the friendship. It is very hard for me with friends of kids, I feel like I have to not say how smart they are bc I dont want to make people feel bad. My friends little boy is a year ahead of dd and she always says... well Autumn is advanced for her age and J*** is a bit delayed so its like they are the same age!! It makes me feel bad and I didnt want to tell her that Autumn had pottytrained (at the same time as J***), or moved to a bed or given up her pacifier (which he just gave up bc of speech delays and teeth misalignment).....

I dunno, I love that I have a place now to brag about my kids accomplishments... I think we need an above average tribe..lol...

[teachma]

In regard to the IQ testing, I'd only do it if you thought that it would:
1) change what you are doing for your ds (you might skip him a grade if his IQ was higher than you thought, but not if you didn't know or something like that)
or
2) he's having problems and you want to know what you are dealing with.

My younger dd may be just as bright in an IQ sense as her older sister, but she does not have the sensitivities that her sister does (or at least they are less extreme) and she is a pretty happy little kindergartener.

We are actually having dd#1's IQ tested along with a bunch of other stuff (self esteem inventory, looking for twice exceptionalities -- learning disabilities together with giftedness, etc.). The only reason that we are doing this is b/c she is so intense emotionally, has a hard time with life and tends toward depression at times b/c life is so overwhelmingly vibrant for her. She's also super happy at times, but the world is ending rather frequently too from what she says :wink . I just want some guidance in what it is we are dealing with and how best to help her navigate the rough waters of her life experience.

I agree with this, and we did have ds (5 yo in public K) privately tested this fall for the same reasons. We did not choose to inform the school that we were testing, nor did we share the results (which, in our minds, were inaccurate for a few reasons). We were hoping it would shed some light on his "issues," but it didn't, and the issues we've dealt with for the last two or three years (anxiety, extreme perfectionism, major intense personality) seem to be subsiding lately anyway...long story short, I was not very happy I'd gone through with the process, so unless you will use the results to alter his education is some way, I would recommend against it. Just my opinion!

[ChristaN]

I am hoping that isn't our experience -- disappointment b/c the testing doesn't give us any insight that we don't already have or is inaccurate. I will only share the info with the school if I feel like it is accurate and will benefit dd in some way -- qualify her for more TAG classes or grade acceleration or something. We are seriously considering changing schools with the kids next year anyway, so I may just keep the results for our own eyes only at this point.

I am cautiously optimistic that we will be getting some actually useful info b/c the people who are evaluating her specialize in gifted kids. Hopefully they will know what they are doing!

[teachma]

I am cautiously optimistic that we will be getting some actually useful info b/c the people who are evaluating her specialize in gifted kids. Hopefully they will know what they are doing!

Lucky you! The woman who tested ds seemed to specialize in children of highly affluent parents who believe that, because of the opportunities they have provided for their children, they must be gifted (there is a large contingent like this in my town and neighboring ones)...wish I had known that beforehand! It came out in the more subjective portion of her eval that she got the feeling I was one of *those* parents. Plus, it was also apparent that she didn't really like ds too much- it seemed to really bother her that she had to admit, in the report, "Despite his defiant attitude and refusal to participate, he did show flashes of charm and humor at points throughout the testing." I certainly hope you have a better experience!

[ChristaN]

Lucky you! The woman who tested ds seemed to specialize in children of highly affluent parents who believe that, because of the opportunities they have provided for their children, they must be gifted (there is a large contingent like this in my town and neighboring ones)...wish I had known that beforehand! It came out in the more subjective portion of her eval that she got the feeling I was one of *those* parents.
I haven't gotten that impression from them. They state that parents are the most reliable in determining giftedness in children and I have heard very good things about this psychologist's office from others, so I hope that I have well placed trust. I'll let you know once we get the report, though! DD goes in next Tuesday for her assessment.

[eilonwy]

When we drove off, dh asked me why on earth our child made such a big deal of making a choice, and what was so hard about deciding between two simple items.

Then - and here's the funny part - we decided to stop for a quick dinner at the diner down the road. Dh proceeded to spend an inordinate time deciding what he was going to eat. He read the menu umpteen times, made the waitress talk him through each item, and simply agonised until he made his order. I sat there just grinning at the irony of it all. I swear that if he wasnt a full-grown man, he'd have thrown himself on the floor and cried at the pressure of making a choice between two simple items on a menu. :lol :lol :lol

:laugh: Did you point it out to him? :mischief Did you offer him some tylenol for his headache? :lol I'm mean like that, I totally would have done it...

I feel your daughter's pain! I hate making decisions like that, I still have a hard time with it. :shake That's one of the reasons that I tend to do my clearnace shopping later in the season (that, and the scary-low prices :wink)-- there's always less selection. One pair of pants in my size? They're not puce? Done! :lol

I've got a question about dreams-- how old were your kids before they finally got it? BeanBean has been talking about dreams for a while now, but until this point, his dreams had been either memory-based or entirely fantastic; about things which had definately happened or things which never could happen in real life. This morning, however, he woke up looking for a granola bar. He became absolutely hysterical when the granola bar couldn't be found-- "But I saw it, it was in my hand!" Now, it didn't help that he'd just woken up and that he's had that horrible stomach virus this week/end, but he was really upset about it. I didn't know how else to explain it to him, he just couldn't accept that the granola bar didn't exist outside of his dream...

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

Phishmama!!! Have him skip as many grades as they will allow!! I was put in early so I didn't have the problem of leaving my friends. It was the best thing since once I hit hs I was BORED even being at the top of my class and was the youngest one there by 1-1/2 years. It's not a label you are looking for, it's appropriate challenge so he doesn't get lazy as surely he will very quickly in public school. Go on the Gifted Development Center's website and do the research. It will open your eyes. Your school ROCKS that they want to do it now. And you would be shortchanging him if you said no testing. Who cares what the tests say? No one. But, you need them in schools to get anywhere a good education for him. And I think the stigma is less on boys than girls being smart, although I could be wrong, mine aren't in school and I'm just going on heresay.

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

It's not G-d in literature that is a problem for me. OR my child knowing about other religions. It's that Xianity is SO pervasive, and so often confused with Judaism. For instance, "The Bible"---is a Christian thing. The Torah, or the Tanach is Jewish.

As clever as Dragon Boy (DS1) is, as much as he gets, he is part of a culture that believes primarily in Xianity. I don't want him confused about what we believe in vs. what other people believe in.

I want his ethics and morals to come from Judaism. And I think what kind of literature he reads etc informs that.

:shrug I'm not being very clear I think.
You are being slightly unclear in that for starters as I am in the understanding, the Bible has a WHOLE first part that is totally Jewish, says all about the start of the Jews by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and how they are God's people and the promises of their covenant with God and promises they will be His peoples to time indefinite and that He will send the Messiah out of them, HIs Son, to save the world. The Torah is the 1st 5 books in the Holy Scriptures as given by God, as written down in the Bible. It was always the judges/Levites responsibility to interpret the Law as regards day to day life.

I do agree that what we feed our children mentally determines to a degree their outcome, but our households and ourselves, we play a larger roll in what they think, no? My dh's grandfather went to temple every day in Germany, this was after the war that much of his family died in camps. My dh remembers his grandfather going each day when they lived with him for several years in early childhood. These are the things that I believe form a moral foundation in ones' children. Not some book the kid reads or some poem or comic book for that matter, but how we live our lives. I could go further, but I think that would require being on the religion forum.

I LOVE what USAmma's son says!!! We celebrate winter too!

[mamaverdi]

You are being slightly unclear in that for starters as I am in the understanding, the Bible has a WHOLE first part that is totally Jewish, says all about the start of the Jews by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and how they are God's people and the promises of their covenant with God and promises they will be His peoples to time indefinite and that He will send the Messiah out of them, HIs Son, to save the world. The Torah is the rabbis interpretation of the Law as given by God, as written down in the Bible. It was always the judges/Levites responsibility to interpret the Law as regards day to day life and I guess they felt it would be better to write down what they themselves thought at the time.

No this is not correct. The Torah is the whole of the law, sometimes referring to only the first 5 books, sometimes, the entire TaNaKh, and sometimes, the whole of the law. But the Talmud is the Rabbi's interpretations of the law, or the written Oral Torah which is also thought to have been given with the Torah on Mt. Sinai, to Moshe.

Bible, which means book in what, Greek or Latin, is not a Jewish word. It is not how most Jews refer to their sacred text/s. And the Xian Bible is NOT a proper translation of the Hebrew. In fact, it was a translation into Greek and then Latin and then into English from the Latin, no?

And sorry Jews don't believe there is anything about sending G-d's "Son" to save the world. Again that is a Christian concept.

These are the very problems I wastalking about I DO NOT WANT MY SON HAVING with understanding. Someone coming from a Christian perspective rarely has an understanding of Judaism. And sadly, many Jews these days have little understanding of Judaism.

Foundational stories are very important. They inform the child of how their religion sees things. If Jewish stories are presented by a Christian, they take on new interpretations and NO LONGER REMAIN Jewish stories.

My son is very likely to believe what someone he trusts tells him. Not because what they tell him is true but because he trusts them. And Cristian interpretation of JEWISH stories is RARELY even CLOSE to what Jews think about the stories, law, history, etc.

mv

[Daffodil]

I've got a question about dreams-- how old were your kids before they finally got it? BeanBean has been talking about dreams for a while now, but until this point, his dreams had been either memory-based or entirely fantastic; about things which had definately happened or things which never could happen in real life. This morning, however, he woke up looking for a granola bar. He became absolutely hysterical when the granola bar couldn't be found-- "But I saw it, it was in my hand!"
A month or so ago, Lindy said something specific about a dream of hers for the first time. She woke up, sat up, looked around, and asked, "Was I just dreaming I was reading a magazine with those in it?" I told her she must have been. So she seemed to get that if she woke up and didn't actually see the magazine, she must only have been dreaming about it. (She wasn't able to tell me what "those" were, but in answer to my questions, she said I had been reading the magazine [pronounced "magzagine" :)] to her in the dream, and she had liked it.)

Maybe BeanBean had one of those dreams where you're in your actual bed in your actual room, and while you're dreaming of lying there half awake, something realistic happens (like your mom hands you a granola bar.) If you wake up from a dream like that, it isn't immediately obvious that it was a dream.

[eilonwy]

These are the very problems I wastalking about I DO NOT WANT MY SON HAVING with understanding. Someone coming from a Christian perspective rarely has an understanding of Judaism. And sadly, many Jews these days have little understanding of Judaism.

Foundational stories are very important. They inform the child of how their religion sees things. If Jewish stories are presented by a Christian, they take on new interpretations and NO LONGER REMAIN Jewish stories.

My son is very likely to believe what someone he trusts tells him. Not because what they tell him is true but because he trusts them. And Cristian interpretation of JEWISH stories is RARELY even CLOSE to what Jews think about the stories, law, history, etc.

:yeah: I've actually read the Tanach in Hebrew & English, as well as several different versions of Christian Bibles. They're not even close. Start a thread in Religious Studies asking about the differences between the Old Testament and the Torah; while many (most?) Christians are adamant in their belief that they are one and the same, the fact is that they are quite different. It's really a fascinating subject; if you start the thread let me know, because it's bound to be a fun one. :D

Maybe BeanBean had one of those dreams where you're in your actual bed in your actual room, and while you're dreaming of lying there half awake, something realistic happens (like your mom hands you a granola bar.) If you wake up from a dream like that, it isn't immediately obvious that it was a dream.

Yeah, I think that it must have been something like that. I've had those moments, too. I was just worried that he seemed so upset by it, at least initially, that it was worthy of wahwahs. :guilty

[mamaverdi]

Evidently there has been a thread. It lasted 3 posts. This was posted:
http://jewfaq.org/torah.htm

If you want more of a discussion, I'm glad to post a question. Others there will know more than I.

mv

[eilonwy]

:lol Start it, for sure; that page is useful, but doesn't truly address the differences in translation (and, in fact, it implies that the differences are minor when they appear at all-- not true!). Perhaps a Christian & Jewish study thread thread is in order. That could be loads of fun... :lol

[mamaverdi]

Here you go...

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=390328

[eilonwy]

:D Thanks.

So what are the kiddles doing? How were your holidays? We celebrated the last night of Channukah last night, and that was fun-- BeanBean has enjoyed lighting and saying goodnight to the candles when they get down to the bottom. :love

[catgirl]

We visited family in the UK for part of the holidays, and ds pointed out this morning that we had celebrated Hanukkah in two countires, two continents, two months and two years!

And the town menorah (made of tastefully spray=painted plastic drainpipes) was outside my brothers house, and when the rabbi was delayed one night *I* got to go up in the council cherry-picker and light the hurricane lamps, yelling the blessings into the howling gale! Pretty cool.

[mamaverdi]

Penny how fun!

Our holidays were good. I only wish we had made more latkes!

mv