homebirth laws??

[3+2=5:-)]

A couple of ppl have told me that homebirth isn't legal, and if someone wanted to cause me problems, they could have my kids taken away for putting my babies at risk! What in the world?? Do any of you know how laws are in Alabama, specifically? I want to do a homebirth with my twins...but keep going to my doc as a back up (without him knowing, lol...unless I get to know him better and think he wouldn't care). I am due in May. I don't guess I will tell ppl, but if someone finds out, or if something goes wrong, can they take my kids away!?

[Guest*]

Homebirth is not illegal anywhere. You can give birth at home. Where legal issues come into play is with the use of midwives. I believe lay and CPM midwives are only legal in about 20 states. In the rest, they are either illegal or alegal (no law). In other states, only CNMs are legal for homebirths.

Check out www.mana.org You can find out what the midwife laws are for your state.

[beansricerevolt]

:lurk:
I to am interested in the laws of homebirth.

[Valerie]

:lurk:
I to am interested in the laws of homebirth.

You might also check out www.fromcallingtocourtroom.net

Valerie

[alegna]

It's a free country (well in theory anyway :lol) you can birth anywhere you want. The worst case is that midwives for homebirth may be illegal in your state (can't look it up right now... toddler on lap) but in no case would your actions be illegal.

-Angela

[Hayes]

Hello from a mama who had baby #4 AT HOME and still has all 4 of her kids. CPS hasn't even knocked on my door. Homebirth in Alabama is completely LEGAL. You can have as many babies at your hosue as you choose. However, having a midwife attend your birth is ALEGAL. In Alabama, the law says that a midwife must ahve a certificate to attend births. However, they don't give out the licenses anymroe.

there are a few midwives practicing in the state. There are a couple of Yahoo groups with great information. PLease feel free to email me privately or send me a private message.

Hayes

[Hayes]

Just a bump. Still waiting to hear from you!

[beansricerevolt]

MW are illegal here in indiana too. :(

[MamaTaraX]

MW are illegal here in indiana too. :(

No they aren't. Midwifery here is alegal. Midwivesin this state practice at their own risk. CNMs are legal, it's CPMs and DEMs that practice at their own risk. Basically they are safe and dandy as long as nothing goes wrong, in which case they can face prosecution. There have been a few instances of families in this state having CPS/DFCS called on them for birthing at home. The families rarely end up in trouble but if an agency is called, midwives go under scrutiny. Should something go awry, midwives are under scrutiny. CNMs are protected by malpractice insurance and are perfectly legal homebirth attendants. CPMs are reckognized in this state but not necessarily looked up to...or down upon. DEMs and anybody else are generally frowned upon by the state. Fortunately, there are plenty of DEMs and CPMs in this state that are great. There are a few CNMs, though not many, and most of them do hospital/birth centre, though there are now two CNMs serving central Indiana.
Sorry to be so long, I just feltl ike clarifying that. Midwifery is alegal in Indiana :)

Namaste, Tara

[Valerie]

No they aren't. Midwifery here is alegal. Midwivesin this state practice at their own risk. CNMs are legal, it's CPMs and DEMs that practice at their own risk. Basically they are safe and dandy as long as nothing goes wrong, in which case they can face prosecution...Midwifery is alegal in Indiana :)

Namaste, Tara

Well...no. Unlicensed midwifery is prohibited by law in Indiana:

TITLE 25 - ARTICLE 22.5. PHYSICIANS
Chapter 8. Penalties
Offenses (IC 25-22.5-8-2)
Sec. 2. (a) A person who violates this article by unlawfully practicing medicine or osteopathic medicine commits a Class C felony. (b) A person who practices midwifery without the license required under this article commits a Class D felony.

TITLE 25 - ARTICLE 23. NURSES
Chapter 1. Licensing of Nurses; Creation of Board; Education Programs
IC 25-23-1-13.1 Midwives Sec. 13.1. (a) An applicant who desires to practice midwifery shall present to the board the applicant's license as a registered nurse and a diploma earned by the applicant from a school of midwifery approved or licensed by the board or licensing agency for midwives that is located in any state.

As to "alegal"...Ida Darragh wrote a great article in Chapter 1 of From Calling to Courtroom, entitled "The Myth of the 'Alegal' Midwife'": www.fromcallingtocourtroom.net

The reality is that there really is no such status as "alegal". If the law neither specifically permits the practice of midwifery nor exempts it from the nursing/medical practice acts, midwives are subject to prosecution.

Valerie
Illinois

[MamaTaraX]

Well...no. Unlicensed midwifery is prohibited by law in Indiana:

How's come you're picking on me? I'm not the first person in this thread to say that midwifery is alegal....
Anyway, I'll find more but here are some links about it:
from in.gov (http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/1999/FISCAL/SB0253.001.html) -- so what this really is is about fiscal matters BUT the first few paragraphs deal with liscensure and legality of CPMs

Digest of Senate Bill 0253 (http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/1999/DGSTF/SB0253.DIG.html)

an interesting artcle I found while searching (http://www.nuvo.net/archive/oldarts/articlex1894.html) -- It's from a couple years ago and doesn't necessarily talk about the legalitiesin detail, in fact, it only talks about CNMs and DEMs, but it was an interesting read so I thought I'd share

"unregulated" according to this (http://www.mana.org/stchartbtm.html)

An explanation of the above table (a very very short one) from a midwife here in Indiana: "In the MANA listings Indiana should fall under alegal. Which means as of 1994 there is no valid law which opposes, just as there is no law that protects non - nurse Midwifery. "

Well, I'm having a hard time finding it, but somewhere I had some good links and info about it. Anyway, I stand by what I said, it's alegal here as it is in many states.

Namaste, Tara

[cathicog]

A couple of ppl have told me that homebirth isn't legal, and if someone wanted to cause me problems, they could have my kids taken away for putting my babies at risk! What in the world?? Do any of you know how laws are in Alabama, specifically? I want to do a homebirth with my twins...but keep going to my doc as a back up (without him knowing, lol...unless I get to know him better and think he wouldn't care). I am due in May. I don't guess I will tell ppl, but if someone finds out, or if something goes wrong, can they take my kids away!?
Homebirth is *not* illegal anywhere in the 50 states!!! I would keep my plans to myself. Do a google search on homebirth twins, I know lots of ladies who have had thiers at home(FAR safer than hospital, for sure) and some have even UC'd! :) If you haven't read it yet, I suggest Having Twins by Elizabeth Noble. It has helped a number of people I know carry thier babies(one set of triplets!) to full term, and birth them vaginally,safely and most at home...there are also many twins birth videos, like The births of Psalm and Zoya, a set of UC twins...

[Valerie]

How's come you're picking on me? I'm not the first person in this thread to say that midwifery is alegal....
Anyway, I'll find more but here are some links about it:
from in.gov (http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/1999/FISCAL/SB0253.001.html) -- so what this really is is about fiscal matters BUT the first few paragraphs deal with liscensure and legality of CPMs

Digest of Senate Bill 0253 (http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/1999/DGSTF/SB0253.DIG.html)

an interesting artcle I found while searching (http://www.nuvo.net/archive/oldarts/articlex1894.html) -- It's from a couple years ago and doesn't necessarily talk about the legalitiesin detail, in fact, it only talks about CNMs and DEMs, but it was an interesting read so I thought I'd share

"unregulated" according to this (http://www.mana.org/stchartbtm.html)

An explanation of the above table (a very very short one) from a midwife here in Indiana: "In the MANA listings Indiana should fall under alegal. Which means as of 1994 there is no valid law which opposes, just as there is no law that protects non - nurse Midwifery. "

Well, I'm having a hard time finding it, but somewhere I had some good links and info about it. Anyway, I stand by what I said, it's alegal here as it is in many states.

Namaste, Tara

Thanks for your response, Tara.

I am not "picking" on you. I know you aren't the first person to use the word "alegal." Hey -- I used to use it, before I realized that it has no real legal meaning. It is simply not a real term. If a midwife is not specifically regulated, or exempted from a state's nursing/medical practice acts, she has no legal protection to practice and is subject to prosecution. The term "alegal" would theoretically mean "outside of the law" or "without the law", yet midwives in so-called "alegal" states ARE being prosecuted for violation of nurse and medical practice acts.

As to your senate bill links -- they are the text and fiscal implications of a bill that was introduced (SB 253), but never passed.

In either case, I refer you again to the specifics of Indiana law, which does continue to prohibit the practice of unlicensed midwifery.

Valerie
Illinois

[Valerie]

an interesting artcle I found while searching (http://www.nuvo.net/archive/oldarts/articlex1894.html) -- It's from a couple years ago and doesn't necessarily talk about the legalitiesin detail, in fact, it only talks about CNMs and DEMs, but it was an interesting read so I thought I'd share

Namaste, Tara

Sorry about the serial post -- it took a while to get to the link you mentioned above. It is a nice article, but I did note with some interest that even your article states that:

"Although Mary has attended and assisted with over 400 births, and has close to three decades of experience as a midwife, when she and Brandi help Anya give birth this summer, they will be breaking Indiana law. This law classifies direct-entry midwifery as practicing medicine without a license — a Class D felony carrying a maximum sentence of three years in jail and a $10,000 fine."

Unfortunately, midwifery IS illegal in Indiana. As previous posters point out, however, homebirth is not illegal anywhere in the United States.

Valerie
Illinois

[AnditheBee]

Sorry about the serial post -- it took a while to get to the link you mentioned above. It is a nice article, but I did note with some interest that even your article states that:

"Although Mary has attended and assisted with over 400 births, and has close to three decades of experience as a midwife, when she and Brandi help Anya give birth this summer, they will be breaking Indiana law. This law classifies direct-entry midwifery as practicing medicine without a license — a Class D felony carrying a maximum sentence of three years in jail and a $10,000 fine."

Unfortunately, midwifery IS illegal in Indiana. As previous posters point out, however, homebirth is not illegal anywhere in the United States.
This article appears to be referring only to direct-entry midwives, not CPMs. In Ohio, I believe that d-e midwives are officially not allowed to attend homebirths (I could be wrong), while CPMs are in that status commonly referred to as "alegal." Perhaps it's the same in Indiana...?

[Valerie]

This article appears to be referring only to direct-entry midwives, not CPMs. In Ohio, I believe that d-e midwives are officially not allowed to attend homebirths (I could be wrong), while CPMs are in that status commonly referred to as "alegal." Perhaps it's the same in Indiana...?

CPMs *are*, for the most part, direct entry midwives (there are a few who are also CNMs). A direct entry midwife is one who enters midwifery without the requirement that she first be a nurse. A CPM is a direct entry midwife who has taken the extra step of being certified by NARM. While some states license CPMs, the certified profession midwife certification is just that -- a certification -- and not a state license to practice. It is really important to distiguish between a voluntary certification and state licensure.

Again, there is no such status as "alegal." If a midwife is neither specifically licensed by the state, nor exempt from the medical/nurse practice acts, she is subject to prosecution. Even CPMs.

Valerie
Illinois

[busybusymomma]

I'm not going to let a law, or lack thereof choose my birth plans. Since when did the law take into account my personal needs? We're not talking a speed limit to keep everyone safe. KWIM? I have to say if something happened and my DEM couldn't attend me I would UC before I'd go to the hospital but that's just me.

[AnditheBee]

CPMs *are*, for the most part, direct entry midwives (there are a few who are also CNMs). A direct entry midwife is one who enters midwifery without the requirement that she first be a nurse. A CPM is a direct entry midwife who has taken the extra step of being certified by NARM. While some states license CPMs, the certified profession midwife certification is just that -- a certification -- and not a state license to practice. It is really important to distiguish between a voluntary certification and state licensure.

Again, there is no such status as "alegal." If a midwife is neither specifically licensed by the state, nor exempt from the medical/nurse practice acts, she is subject to prosecution. Even CPMs.


But subject to prosecution for what? In Ohio, midwives attending homebirth are not allowed to perform "medical" procedures unless they are a CNM (but of course the catch-22 is that CNM's must work "under" a doctor...sheesh...and no doctor in Ohio will do HB anymore, of course...). So I could see a MW being prosecuted for suturing or administering drugs. But unless something goes wrong with the HB and the parents press charges, what can a MW be prosecuted for? Simply attending and assisting with a HB? If HB is legal, then we can choose anyone we want to assist us...right?...that seems to make sense to me.

Not being argumentative...just wondering. Perhaps you were only talking about situations in which something goes wrong.

[Valerie]

But subject to prosecution for what? In Ohio, midwives attending homebirth are not allowed to perform "medical" procedures unless they are a CNM (but of course the catch-22 is that CNM's must work "under" a doctor...sheesh...and no doctor in Ohio will do HB anymore, of course...). So I could see a MW being prosecuted for suturing or administering drugs. But unless something goes wrong with the HB and the parents press charges, what can a MW be prosecuted for? Simply attending and assisting with a HB? If HB is legal, then we can choose anyone we want to assist us...right?...that seems to make sense to me.

Not being argumentative...just wondering. Perhaps you were only talking about situations in which something goes wrong.

Oh, I don't take your questions as argumentative at all. They are excellent questions, and ones that deserve an answer.

You ask "subject to prosecution for what?" In states where midwifery is unregulated, generally midwives are prosecuted for practicing medicine/nursing/nurse-midwifery without a license. While logic might tell us that "medicine" must mean adminstering drugs or suturing or some such thing, I think most people are surprised by how expansive the definitions of "medicine" or "nursing" can be.

In Illinois, for example, the supreme court has defined "midwifery" as the practice of nursing. And the definition of nursing?

"(1) the assessment of healthcare needs, nursing diagnosis, planning, implementation, and nursing evaluation; (2) the promotion, maintenance, and restoration of health; (3) counseling, patient education, health education, and patient advocacy; (4) the administration of medications and treatments as prescribed by a physician licensed to practice medicine in all of its branches."

Consider that for a second..."counseling, patient education, health education, patient advocacy"...sound like something a midwife might do? Then by Illinois law, she is practicing nursing, and if she is doing it without a license she is subject to prosecution. The danger of this court decision is that it is so expansive that it could potentially expand to doulas, breastfeeding educators, childbirth educations, and a whole lot more.

So, yes. In many states, "simply attending and assisting with a homebirth" subjects a midwife to criminal prosecution. And the irony of that is -- as you point out -- that homebirth is legal. You just can't hire a midwife to be there with you.

That is why it is so essential to support licensing laws for direct-entry midwives. Until midwifery is defined and regulated as a profession separate from nursing and medicine, midwives will continue to be prosecuted under the nurse/medical practice acts of their states.

Valerie
Illinois

[busybusymomma]

Valerie- out of curiousity, are there any states that have laws separating midwifery from nursing/medicine where the midwives don't have to be insured and certified?

I kind of prefer that my midwife doesn't have to be certified by the state because then there'd be laws re: transfer and such and then it seems like you're right back where we are now in some ways. :flipped

[Valerie]

Valerie- out of curiousity, are there any states that have laws separating midwifery from nursing/medicine where the midwives don't have to be insured and certified?

I kind of prefer that my midwife doesn't have to be certified by the state because then there'd be laws re: transfer and such and then it seems like you're right back where we are now in some ways. :flipped

You might want to read the Resource section of From Calling to Courtroom (www.fromcallingtocourtroom.net), especially the introduction to that section. It can give you all that information a lot more clearly and succinctly than I can in the limited space here!

I understand the preference for lack of state licensure...really, I do. I don't think any of us like the idea of being "controlled" by state administrative agencies. In my perfect world, the choice of a midwife would be solely between the family and the midwife, based on informed choice and full acceptance of the consequences. The problem is we don't live in a perfect world. Midwives are being harassed out of existence, even when they aren't criminally convicted and jailed. Until we find a way to legally protect the rights of midwives to practice, the rights of families to choose a midwife will also be in jeopardy.

Valerie
Illinois

[cathicog]

So, yes. In many states, "simply attending and assisting with a homebirth" subjects a midwife to criminal prosecution. And the irony of that is -- as you point out -- that homebirth is legal. You just can't hire a midwife to be there with you.
Yep, Valerie's right--hey, IL didn't get that idea from VA, did it?


That is why it is so essential to support licensing laws for direct-entry midwives. Until midwifery is defined and regulated as a profession separate from nursing and medicine, midwives will continue to be prosecuted under the nurse/medical practice acts of their states.

Valerie
Illinois
However, I see this happening, that even as more CPMs get certified, and there are more CNMs working than ever before, the noose around thier necks (of state/physician control) is getting so tight, that some CNMs have been denied the right to work in practices that have suddenly discovered more money in interventions, and resent it when the midwives help the moms avoid them...in many areas the ONLY option for homebirth is Unassisted. Really sucks...folks, this should not be....

[mommaem]

:lurk: :lurk: yeah i'm not either intrested in the laws or no laws! maybe we should try changing the laws and create positive awarness instead of ignorance of the issues! :novax:

-emily


momma of jc :flyby2 :boybaby:

[Valerie]

Yep, Valerie's right--hey, IL didn't get that idea from VA, did it?

Heh...no, probably not. The State of Illinois has a proud tradition of midwifery prosecution going back to the mid-1940's. But right around 1980, things picked up considerably. My own midwifery practice was born in 1983, when my preceptor was arrested and charged with practicing medicine without a license.


However, I see this happening, that even as more CPMs get certified, and there are more CNMs working than ever before, the noose around thier necks (of state/physician control) is getting so tight, that some CNMs have been denied the right to work in practices that have suddenly discovered more money in interventions, and resent it when the midwives help the moms avoid them...in many areas the ONLY option for homebirth is Unassisted. Really sucks...folks, this should not be....

It is true that regulation is not going to make doctors suddently love midwives, nor is it going to prevent legal harassment of midwives. What it WILL to is provide options to those families who wish to hire a licensed midwife, as well as curb the criminal prosecution of those midwives.

Valerie
Illinois

[oldfashionmama]

ok all legal mumble jumble aside! i am planning on moving and i homebirth ( 3x so far) i like having a mw there so how does it work in wyoming or montana? new mexico or arizona? i have read all the listings but they aren't answering my q- if i have a mw am i breaking the law? if she is there but doesn't actually catch the baby ( we never do that anyway) is it ok? actually my mw missed 2 of the homebirths and was there onlt for the cleanup and to check me after it was all done! lol but with one baby it was 12 hrs and she helped me get thru it. so... any words of wisdom?

[mwherbs]

I have a couple of answers-
oldfashionmama-- in Arizona if you attend a birth as a "midwife" for money- it is a felony if you don't have an Arizona license-- so if she is practicing midwifery not legal as it has been stated before homebirth is legal in everystate as far as the mother is concerned- but attendents have various restrictions--
In answer to the other poster about midwives being legal and not having to be certified-- Oregon is one state- they have a licensed midwife category that does not interfer with traditional midwifery-- right now in that state there are more midwives that are not licensed
also reading through recently there is an exception in Alaska for midwives who are traditional birth attendents-in villages this is specifically spelled out
Take a long look at alegal it does mean different things in different states and could very well mean prosicution for the care provider even if there is no problem-- and this is the case in Indiana( isn't it home of the AMA?)more later got to run