Heard of Glenn Domann?

[Raven]

Have any of you heard of Glenn Domann? He runs the Institute for the Achievment of Human Potential.

I think he is brilliant but at the same time it can get a bit overwhelming. I will post a website address later...

[gilnikche]

Here is the link:

http://www.iahp.org/

I have not had much time to look it over. Any opinions on it?

[Raven]

I think that it is a great concept however....

In my opinion unless you are enrolled at the institute it is not very easy or affordable to do it full time. I have used some of the methods with my Dd and other kids at the montessori school I worked at. (the children I used them on were all under 3yrs old)

It is very rewarding and I think there is nothing wrong with giving your kids a head start in life. What Glen Domann has discovered is that it is far easier to teach children things when they are young.

In one of his books he says it 100%! I am not going to quote but it went something along the lines of...

If your tiny child is looking out the window and suddenly asks ,"mommy, what is that?" you have 5 options.
1. you can say, "not now I'm busy!"
2. You can say, "oh, thats a woof woof!"
3. You can say, "Its a dog."
4. You can say, "That is a Great Dane."

Now whatever you choose your child WILL remember what you say....

The 5th option is to take 10 seconds out of your time and show your child ten bits of information.

Incredible!

[Queen Gwen]

I've looked at the website before and read some of his books. Some of it is fascinating and wonderful. Sometimes I wonder who his audience is, though, when he talks about leaving kids in a playpen or just lying in a crib all day(I carried mine everywhere, talked to them nonstop, and have involved them in cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. since they could sit up).

Also, in the books I read the emphasis was on flashcards and not much on other sensorial experiences (I didn't have access to the book on physical excellence). What about all those other wonderful learning experiences involving smell, taste, touch, balance? I was reading Hanahan's book on movement and learning(sorry, I can't remember the title, but it's at the brain gym website www.braingym.org) pondering neurobiology, development of visual acuity and learning styles. I wonder how Doman's ideas fit into this spectrum...in other words, I feel like something's missing here at iahp, with the seeming emphasis on 2-dimensional flashcards. I imagine attending a seminar would clear up the mystery for me, but I don't have the time or $$.

I think the work with brain damages children is just awesome to read about.

[AMum]

I attended the 1st course & I can't wait to go back for the graduate course, sadly it will be a while before I can afford it. The course does clear up a lot of questions. It is much more than 2 dimensional learning, though I can understand why you would see it that way. I think that they teach you to start the program & then the sky is the limit. The flashcards are the beginning. I have not done the program f/t though I do think it is possible and no more expensive than any other homeschooling venture. The most difficult/time consuming/expensive part would be the bits of intelligence. I plan to join the off campus program & I think when you do that you connect with a network of parents who are buying, selling & trading materials.

I think the parents he refers to as using playpens and so on do exist (as a matter of fact they are my IL's, lol).

The physical excellence book is amazing! (I haven't looked at the other link provided.) They have a great emphasis on physical activity & the important role it plays in brain development.

I can see the results of what little we have done to date. My ds has a full vocabulary with no baby talk. He can turn a perfect summersault & is attempting ariels. He asks me everday if he can see some words. We read lots & lots of books too. He will be three in one week.

I plan to do even more in the coming months. We moved just after I went to the Institute & we have been settling in ever since. Many renovation projects req'd for our new house.

One of the aspects I really like is that older sibs (even just one year older in some cases) can teach younger ones & thier programs grow & develop together.

Do I hear cries, of "enough, already?"

[Queen Gwen]

No cries of "enough already" here! Thanks for your insights into the program. I'd love to hear more. All I know is what I've read in the books (and the Physical excellence book was unavailable when I was looking into it...I covet that book!).

We're using Montessori materials to homeschool, and I imagine much would be the same insofar as having gobs of stimulating stuff around; for instance, instead of a mobile of multi-colored cartoon characters we have the solar system.

Come to think of it, Doman's books are what got me into reading Montessori because he mentioned her work. I imagine the application is different, but lord knows I fail to act in proper Montessori manner on a fairly regular basis.

Do tell more! Maybe it will inspire you to get your program into high gear!

[AMum]

Thanks, Queen Gwen! I tend to get a little carried away & lots of people think this topic is loopy. Like I am trying to raise super babies or something. I just want my children to find learning joyful, easy & adventurous rather than trying, difficult & frustrating. I think if they can figure out many of the basice while they come easily (before 5) then the rest will be a big adventure. Imagine if you'd never had to struggle to grasp a basic concept, how much more energy could you have focused on the actual information. I struggled mightily with learning and saw it as very laborious w/o much point or reward. Now I tune in to a history documentary (just for ex.) and I am fascinated! I can't believe I thought history was a big waste of time!

I love your idea of the solar system for a mobile, did you make it yourself? I keep meaning to put up word cards, labeling things in our house, just so ds would see the words all the time. I also want to make words in other languages and post them too. Since we had put aside so much for so long I am now luring him into loving (owning) his words by using many dinasour words, he totally loves them!

The physical program is also very important and, I think, the most difficult to implement. We did pretty well in the beginning. We did balancing exercises, which ds really enjoyed and are things you might do anyway, but they are done with more regularity, intensity & frequency. We also had a crawling track for ds, which we built when he was 2 months. We should have had it ready at birth. I am interested to see how different it will be for Claire b/c she will have it to use from day one. A big aspect of the physical program is braciation, the ability to swing arm over arm on a horizontal ladder (monkey bars). This develops convergence (not to mention abs!) and helps brain development. The trouble with this one is that the parents must model this & love it, I don't love it. I can barely move down three bars, ugh! I am not in good physical condition! I am relatively thin (when not pg), but I am not fit. Another thing to work on! We did start this when ds was a baby by letting him hold our thumbs as we lifted him gently a little bit off the bed. Gradually, you work up to the baby being able to hang independantly from your thumbs or a bar. And then eventually they can swing back & forth a little. Thomas J. could hang from the grocery cart handle for whole aisles by about 18 months, lol. Now he is too tall.

I have yet to unpack my How to Teach Your Baby to be Physically Superb book, I am worried that we lost it in the move :( I do believe I saw that it is available now. Check the website! I think it is on the front page.

If you have anymore questions or would like to hear more ramblings from a "want to be doing more" Mum, feel free to e-mail me or ask here.

[Raven]

I have come across some ppl who are totally against teaching babies. What I dont understand is why...

I totally agree with you AMum! Its an exciting world - not only for the child but for the parent too! Life should be about discovery all the time! It has become the norm for ppl to think that learning is a laborious chore that takes place in the classroom at school. Learning is something that should be taking place within every moment of our lives within the most important classroom of all - the world in which we live!!! Tiny children LOVE to learn! They do it ALL the time! We just call it playing.....

[AMum]

Raven ~ you are so right! Learning is joyous for children until we teach them otherwise! I have come across many people who think I am pushing my ds or trying to create a super baby, when what I am really doing is giving him access to the information he so desperatly wants. I have a dear friend who is an eng. teacher and she feels that I am raising ds to be an outcast. She feels that if he is too far ahead or is homeschooled then he'll never fit in?!? I love her to pieces, but can not understand her rational. But we are different in that "fitting in" does not hold the same value for me as it does for her. Not that I don't prefer to surround myself with like minded people, I just prefer not to go along with the status quo.

I am glad to have found some people who are open to these exciting principles!

[Queen Gwen]

Hmmm...didn't Domann comment that he wasn't trying to help rear an elite class -- he hoped to reach all children with info to help them reach their full potential?

By way of analogy, I know alot of folks who don't teach their toddlers to dress themselves. Does that mean I shouldn't teach dd to dress herself, button her shirt, put on her own coat? (Too bad -- she's already doing it! And anyone who's been around toddlers knows they want to do as much as possible themselves, so she LOVES the feeling of independence this gives her).

I'd caught on that brachiation was important. Frankly, I'm not sure where to practice it. Both dds dearly love hanging off of anything and everything (banisters, grocery carts, etc.). I wonder if this is some primal instinct. Anyway, do you have some monkey bars near you? What do you do when the weather is bad?

[Queen Gwen]

Oh, yes, the mobile was from the Michael Olaf catalogue. The website is www.michaelolaf.net

At least, I think that's right....I'm sitting here with all the lights off while dds pretend to camp out, complete with glow-in-the-dark star maps, so I'm a bit disoriented. When I log off the screen saver is scenes of the galaxy -- very cool. This is a current obsession, obviously.

National Geographic has a solar system mobile, too.

You'll love the Michael Olaf catalogue -- lots of vocab cards, posters, models of animals, maps. Much that could be used for bits of knowledge (as I understand the term).

[Raven]

Fitting in.....now thats something to talk about!!! What do we want our children to fit in to? A bunch of kids who are too afraid to explore their intelligence (which all kids have) because they might be thought of to be nerdy? Please!!!

I am not going to deny my child any opportunities to learn and grow because other mothers are not questioning the norm of education. If everybody surpressed their kids because they wanted them to 'fit in' then how will we ever raise kids who think for themselves? Thats the Gentle Revolution Gelenn Doman talks about. Stepping out from the norm and holing on to what you feel is the right thing to do regardless of what others think or say! Most of the time ppl critisize because it means they have a scapegoat.

What I love about Glenn Doman's methods AND Montessori is the fact that neither of these methods take credit for the childrens success. They both acknowledge the fact that we are merely here to provide opportunity! If we deliver the facts then the children themselves will discover the laws that govern them.

I wish more parents would discover this and have faith in their kids!

[AMum]

Raven ~ you hit the nail on the head.

Queen Gwen ~ thanks for the link. I'll check it out soon. Our current obsession is Dinosaurs and things extinct. We could use some other interests!

Ashlea

[Mamma Jude]

Jumping into this thread waaaay late, but I just found it and wanted to join in. :)

I could also go on and on about the Doman methods, much to dh's dismay, as I talk about it non-stop with him, lol.

I'm loving doing it with ds Jaxon (21 months). We're doing the reading, math, & encyclopedic knowledge programs and will be starting on the physical program soon.

We've been doing the reading the longest, about 4 months now, and Jaxon can pick out words we've never taught him. It's unbelievable.

When people talk about robbing children of the fun of play I think of Doman saying "if it's not fun for both you and your child, you're doing something wrong." What he discovered is that learning IS play to children -- they enjoy it and relish it!

-Jude :love

[NoHiddenFees]

There was recently a rather extensive thread on Doman in Learning at Home and Beyond (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=224576).

[Belen]

Hi
I am Belen from Spain
I have a son who is epileptic and I am traveling to the States next September to do the course "What to do about your brain injured child" by Glenn Doman. Please, if anyone have done the course,can you tell me what do you think about it?
Thanks alot

[Mamma Jude]

Belen,
We took the course in March and it changed our lives. My dh said it was the most educational 5 days he has ever spent in his whole life. My friend who also went was a 60-hour a week working mom who had her child in daycare and in the middle of the course she broke down crying and decided to quit her job to spend more time with her child. I can't say enough wonderful things about this course and program in general. -Jude

[OhTheThinks.....]

What age ranges does he cover ??
Is his theories and practices only for babies/toddlers?

[sophiesue2]

There is a lot of focus on starting as young as possible.

[flyingspaghettimama]

This is an old thread!

FWIW, the AAP and almost all of the psychological community discount the Doman approach for both challenged children and preliterate babies (as his teach-a-baby-to-read theory is based upon the earlier Doman-Delacato method). The AAP states:

"This statement reviews patterning as a treatment for children with neurologic impairments. This treatment is based on an outmoded and oversimplified theory of brain development. Current information does not support the claims of proponents that this treatment is efficacious, and its use continues to be unwarranted."

"the demands and expectations placed on families are so great that in some cases their financial resources may be depleted substantially and parental and sibling relationships could be stressed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Institutes_for_The_Achievement_of_Human_Potent ial

If it quacks like a duck...I wouldn't waste money on anything new by the org, for sure. Get a used copy of the book or one from a library. Or better yet, don't get one at all!

Check out this previous thread about the Doman institute - one of our MDC mamas actually called them to find out more. http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=487917&highlight=doman

[rabrog]

So glad to see this thread! I am reading Teach Your Baby to Read right now and will be getting the program shortly. DD is 2.5 and I think it's a great idea to teach reading as early as possible. What Doman says makes sense. I'm only sorry I didn't read it earlier.

Jenn

[runes]

just to reiterate from flyingspaghettimama's previous post...

please check out this thread:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=487917&highlight=doman

lots of excellent information and as fsm mentioned, one of our mdc mamas actually called the institute to get more information.

it's eye opening!:thumb

[lavieenrose]

Hi,

This is actually my first post to MDC, although I have been reading it since my daughter was born two years ago. I love the fact that this whole community exists! I was really interested to see the many lively discussions regarding Glenn Doman because I am more or less a "product" of The Institutes programs. My parents attended the Institutes course in 1979, just a few years after they started giving it. Up until that time, they only worked with parents of brain-injured children. Even now, they only hold courses for parents of well kids four weeks out of the year so it actually is a very tiny facet of their overall work. My parents have said that, like most parents, they knew their kids were smart -- they just didn't know what, if anything, to do about it! I am the oldest of four kids born between 1975 and 1980, and I was 4 years old when my parents heard about Glenn Doman. Of course they had been reading to all of us since we were very small -- common sense, right? And at that time they didn't have all the video options we have now, so what else were they going to do ;)

I can still remember the day my mother came home from the last day of the course, because she brought home a xylophone which I thought was really cool. She started showing us word cards the next week, and I read "Hop on Pop" independently the next month. Of course I had already had a great foundation because I had been read to for my entire life so far. My mother continued to teach all four of us, adding the "Encyclopedic Knowledge" Program (flash cards, or "Bits of Intelligence"), math and music in the form of Suzuki method violin. When I was 6 years old, our family was invited to attend school at The Institutes. The school was also in its infancy at that time, and was really terrific. I mainly remember having lots of fun. I attended the school there until age 9, when I went into public school for two years, then Catholic school for two years, and finally a private Catholic all-girls' high school.

My siblings and I were particularly lucky in that our parents really took Glenn Doman's primary message of fun and joyousness to heart. I can certainly see how this program -- or any teaching effort -- can produce hideous results in the wrong hands. Parents who pursue any enrichment activity with the sole aim of producing "super babies" or future Yalies are more than likely going to stress their kids and ruin the experience of learning for them. That stinks, big time.

Now I have a two-year-old daughter and I am reading to her, explaining things to her, pointing out trees and birds and dogs, speaking Japanese to her (as much as I can), playing music for her and identifying the composers, and everything else that probably most of you are doing as well in a natural way. Since the "programs" weren't necessarily natural for my mother, she had to do things in a more structured way, which I understand does not appeal to many people on this BB. Since I grew up with it, though, I find that I rely far less on cardboard materials and far more on finding the "teachable moment," which happens about every three seconds in our house! I'm not looking to stuff my daughter full of "useless" facts (and who can tell what will be useful or useless to our children in their future lives?), but I do enjoy giving her every opportunity to learn about the world around her in a relaxed and happy way. Sometimes I use my homemade materials to do this, sometimes not. It all depends on the day and the moment.

As for whether it changed my life, well, I think so but it's tough to say for sure since I can't compare the upbringing I had with the one I didn't. :) Some might posit that my parents were already naturally inclined towards giving their kids unusual and extraordinary opportunities to learn and would have figured it out themselves. I know from what they have told me that without reading Glenn Doman's books they would not have known how to lend structure to this natural inclination of theirs. I definitely know there is a very slim chance that I would play the violin now if my parents had never heard of the Institutes, and an even slimmer chance that I would speak Japanese. Since both these things are very important to me, then I think it was very lucky for me personally that they did.

I guess what I'm saying is that, with the blessing of even-handed parents, Glenn Doman's philosophy worked for me as a child and is continuing to work for me as a mother. :) My feeling (and this goes for every parenting decision) is that parents who are drawn to these ideas should try them out whole-heartedly and have a great time. Parents who are not drawn to the ideas should just move on and not worry about it. It's definitely not for everyone, just like co-sleeping, cloth diapering, or homeschooling (to name a few of the many, many options we have as parents -- isn't it great to be overwhelmed with choices?!). No point in arguing, really :)

I hope this long post adds to the discussion! Thanks!

[Mary-Beth]

According to Doman, "A child needs discipline in the same way he needs good food and love and fresh air. If one is unable to motivate a child in a positive way (which is the very best way), then one must do what must be done."

I agree up until the end...by "what must be done" he means start off positive but if your child still doesn't do what you tell him to do then Doman advices threats and hitting.
Here is Doman telling parents how to demand compliance...
"Johnny, if you don't do that I'm going to pop you one." If that works that is the best way. If that doesn't work, one says, "Johnny, I am about to wham you, and when I'm done belting you, you are going to do it or I am going to wham you again." It is devoutly wished that one never get to the bottom of the list, but if one does, he must win the battle because by that time the real subject under discussion is which one is the parent and which is the child."

I'm not willing to support someone who treats children with such lack of respect and endorses violence against children.

[Lana]

"Johnny, I am about to wham you, and when I'm done belting you, you are going to do it or I am going to wham you again." It is devoutly wished that one never get to the bottom of the list, but if one does, he must win the battle because by that time the real subject under discussion is which one is the parent and which is the child."


Please, where it was written?

[Mamma Jude]

"Johnny, I am about to wham you, and when I'm done belting you, you are going to do it or I am going to wham you again." It is devoutly wished that one never get to the bottom of the list, but if one does, he must win the battle because by that time the real subject under discussion is which one is the parent and which is the child."


Please, where it was written?

I was wondering this too.

[Mary-Beth]

In the book, What to do About Your Brain Injured Child...page 181

Here is a little more...
"When Mother puts a child to bed seventeen times and he gets back up eighten times and is finally walloped, it is not that he has made a mistake. He was demanding to be spanked. He was trying to find where the edges were. In this case he found out. It took eighteen times to find out how far he could go."
Then he moves into the previous quote...

[Mamma Jude]

I must say that doesn't sound anything like him to me! I've had the pleasure of having lunch with him and he has this just profound love and respect for babies and moms. More so than anyone else I've ever met.

[Mary-Beth]

Well it's his book. Check it out if you don't believe me.
Maybe you can ask him about it???

[flyingspaghettimama]

Thanks, Mary-Beth, although that is absolutely nauseating. If anyone asks about Domann, I'll be sure to refer them to this thread and what he said.

If he seems one way and writes another way, could that be a sign of a serious personality disorder?

[Mamma Jude]

Sorry if that came across rude, I sure didn't mean it that way. :thumb I'm just surprised is all.

[Mary-Beth]

Maybe he's had a change of heart since then but I do know that The Institutes still recommends that book and you'd think he would write another book to reflect such critical changes if that were the case.