WWYD- Put this in perspective for me!

[SunRayeMomi]

I've been trying to give my ex the benefit of the doubt and today I found out he did something so irresponsible that I've lost all trust in his judgement.

He lives with a male friend I don't know well so I don't approve of dd visiting him at home. I drop her off every Friday at his brother's house (where he used to live) and he watches his brother's 5 MONTH old ds while visiting with dd (4.5). I pick her up after work, around 11 p.m.

This morning I had to leave the house for a few minutes to pick up a friend. DD asked "But who's going to watch me?!" And I told her that Brian was home (he lives with us) and he would. DD then told both me that she wanted to be sure because yesterday (Friday) she "wasn't watched" because her dad went to the store and bought candy and beer (she knows what beer looks and smells like so I have reason to believe this. Also, he smelled of beer when I dropped her off but was coherent and said he had a lunch meeting and ordered a beer at the restaurant). She said he locked the door behind him telling her "so no one can come in" and she had to watch her 5 MONTH OLD cousin. She said "But it's okay mom, because we are fine".

I know the store is directly across the street, and it would have taken him less than 5 or ten minutes to get back. He was never good at understanding consequences though.

When he called today, I asked him if he "did anything I wouldn't approve of" yesterday. He said no, except that maybe him giving her candy would apply. I asked him where he got the candy and he said "We went to the store" and I said "All three of you?" and he admitted to leaving them home alone. I asked him what he went there for and he said "candy and soda". I told him Raye said it was not soda, it was beer, and he claimed that it certainly was not beer. :shrug He's been texting me repeatedly apologizing, saying it will never happen again and he understands why I am upset, etc.

I need you guys to put this in perspective for me. We've been getting along, but he put two children in danger and I wonder what my next step should be.

Should I tell friend of the court I want supervised visitation from now on? Do I alert his brother to his irresponsibility? Why even bother to mention that I need him for babysitting purposes but haven't received child support in over a year? And now this....

PLEASE- WWYD?!
TIA!

[annarbor931]

Hmmmm. Very bad judgment, for sure. I would give him a few articles about kids that have died or have been injured being left home alone, even for a few moments. I recall a few major stores in the past few yearss, of children dying in a fire when a parent left them for a few minutes to run to a nearby store. I would def. use this as a learning experience FIRST. How you proceed afterwards depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

[Raynbow]

GAH!

I would make damn sure his brother knows that his 5 month old baby was left in the care of a FOUR YEAR OLD!!

GAH!

What would he have done if the baby had choked? Or if a fire had started? Or if your DD had fallen down and hurt herself? Or if the baby had gotten hurt??

GAH!!!

THere was a family in my neighborhoodf several years ago... teh parents went out to the bar, leaving 4 children in the care of their 7 yr old brother (all were asleep). The 2 yr old got up and found a lighter. He set fire to the house. The 7 yr old had the where-withall to get the little ones out of the house through the roof, but DIED in the flames himself - saving his siblings. Tell your jerkoff ex about that.
He ought to VOLUNTEER for supervised visitation until he completes a parenting class!

GAH!!

[SunRayeMomi]

A parenting class is a VERY good suggestion! While I know he wasn't gone to the bar or anything lengthy like that, a child could easily choke within seconds, especially if my dd offered it food it couldn't eat.

GAH! is right! :angry

[BabyDakota]

I am always a worst case senario type of person, and it has helped me to get out of bad situations...
WCS - A neighbor knew he was the only one home with the children, saw him leave and calls the cops who show up with SS, they take the children and possibly arrest your ex...
There are so many what ifs that could balloon from that one situation. If that was my child, I would not leave him alone with her ever again!
You really should tell his brother.
I would not let him see the daughter based on the fact of the lack of child support, at least not out of my own sight.

[Jster]

Yeah, I think a parenting class is a minimum. Actually, you're really lucky that he also is willing to admit it's a problem...perhaps his poor judgment got the better of him?

And if anything did go wrong...it's not just him that would have had to live with the consequences. Imagine if the 5mo had choked and your poor daughter had seen it and been helpless to do something when she was "watching" her cousin!!! What a horrible thing to have to live with! I guess I'm a worst case scenario person myself...

[SunRayeMomi]

This isn't even about WCS - you gals are right to think of these things because they can happen when a responsible adult IS present, so to willingly leave two children alone is absolute idiocy. I think I will be telling his brother. Also, FoC sent me a letter the other day asking me to write a statement about any concerns or requests that I have regarding our case. He's already served time for non-payment. I still haven't seen any money, but he claims he's given the court roughly 1200$ since getting out of jail. So I will be telling them that I am concerned about not having received a check for 13 months and also that I think we need supervised visits at most and parenting classes for him at the least.

Thank you all. Please, if any one else has any ideas, let me know. I am so confused, as I'm sure most of us are dealing with our exes!

[ombra*luna]

My concern for this (besides the worst case thing like what if he gets run down by a car as he crosses the street to the store) is that he didn't understand that that was wrong - so what else is he capable of not understanding?

What kind of a "grownup" doesn't understand that it's not OK to leave a 4-year-old alone, let alone caring for a 5-month-old? Why is he unable to think that through? It's the kind of thing you wouldn't even think you had to tell someone, like a teenage babysitter, much less a parent, much less the parent of the child in question. Where is his instinct to protect the child?

[SunRayeMomi]

My concern for this (besides the worst case thing like what if he gets run down by a car as he crosses the street to the store) is that he didn't understand that that was wrong - so what else is he capable of not understanding?

What kind of a "grownup" doesn't understand that it's not OK to leave a 4-year-old alone, let alone caring for a 5-month-old? Why is he unable to think that through? It's the kind of thing you wouldn't even think you had to tell someone, like a teenage babysitter, much less a parent, much less the parent of the child in question. Where is his instinct to protect the child?
Yes, exactly my point. All he's ever done is apologize profusely for mistakes that he's made. He never excepts them as wrong. After this incedent he said "look Sara, I'm am trying to move past the mistakes I have made" :angry You're still making them though!!! It would be much easier to move past them were you not still making serious offenses such as this!!!

Anyway. You have all strengthened my resolve, thank you. It's hard to know what to do, because I know he cares for dd - he's just not fit to be a parent. And it's not about him anymore. I haven't loved him since before I even gave birth and I need to stop rescuing him, which I thought I had done but now looking back I see that I've enabled him to not pay child support by still allowing him to see her. I really did need a sitter for one day a week, but I will find another because nothing is worth putting my dd in the hands of his incompetence.

I used to worry about how she would feel by not seeing him, since he has no car and cannot come to her, but I don't worry anymore. My DP is more than enough father for her :heartbeat

Thanks again :D

[Jilian]

:eek I would be VERY upset, that goes beyond bad judgement, it is irresponsible and dangerous behavior. You would be justified in notifying the court and requesting supervised visitation. An apology isn't good enough, he needs to change this type of behavior and PROVE to you that he is trustworthy before he is trusted with a child again. Of course this is just my humble opinion but that kind of behavior is just unacceptable.

[ombra*luna]

Just wanted to add that at least in my state, the issues of child support and visitation are supposed to be separate and I don't think you're supposed to deny visitation on the basis of no child support.

Also that if I think the parent of the 5-month-old has the right to know what went on, so he can make his own decisions on what to do about having this guy watch his kid.

And, the lack of willingness to accept his part in the mistakes is a danger sign to me - you probably do want to notify the courts of his behavior, because anyone knows stuff like that isn't okay. Next thing you know he'll be sending her to the store by herself.

[BelovedK]

:eek I would be VERY upset, that goes beyond bad judgement, it is irresponsible and dangerous behavior. You would be justified in notifying the court and requesting supervised visitation. An apology isn't good enough, he needs to change this type of behavior and PROVE to you that he is trustworthy before he is trusted with a child again. Of course this is just my humble opinion but that kind of behavior is just unacceptable.
I am just appalled :hammer :cuss :hammer

My mind just keeps going to the WCS also, He should *never* be allowed to be alone with ANY DC, let alone his own. Sad, but he has proven himself to be beyond irresponsible, but criminal...and WTF about his not paying CS?

[MaWhit]

I would absolutely tell the parents of the 5-month-old. And I would instruct dd to call 911 immediately if he ever does it again (if it is unavoidable to leave her with him while running the paperwork hamster wheel).

[SunRayeMomi]

Just wanted to add that at least in my state, the issues of child support and visitation are supposed to be separate and I don't think you're supposed to deny visitation on the basis of no child support.

Also that if I think the parent of the 5-month-old has the right to know what went on, so he can make his own decisions on what to do about having this guy watch his kid.

And, the lack of willingness to accept his part in the mistakes is a danger sign to me - you probably do want to notify the courts of his behavior, because anyone knows stuff like that isn't okay. Next thing you know he'll be sending her to the store by herself.
No I can't deny visitation, but since he has no car or license I can refuse to transport her, according to FoC, so at least I have that on my side.

About calling 911 - they don't even have a phone at the apt. The more I think about it the more I beat myself for letting her go there in the first place. And that also makes it hard to call the brother and tell him what happened. :( I will have to make a special trip to do so.

[Katt2005]

I'm so sorry mama! I hope you can decide what is right to do for your situation. I know for me, if Julia's dad did that, I would probably not let him see her for a long time, long enough to prove to me he can understand the full responsibilities of parenting. And if he had the guts to alert the FOC of MY actions, THEN I would tell them about his ya know. And explain that that is why I don't let him see her. He needs to take responsiblity for his actions. How would he feel if Raye told him, you had done this?

[SunRayeMomi]

Yes Katt, that's what I was thinking too :nod

Yesterday we went to the movies with DPs sisters and their kids and Raye said "Guess what? My daddy is bad!" :( So I had to explain to them why she said that. She really picked up on the whole thing, and that's the other reason why this is such a mess! :shake

[Katt2005]

Well atleast she sensed it was a bad situation. I hope he truely is sorry, and see's this issue for what it is and doesn't just see it as making YOU mad.

[SunRayeMomi]

You know, I get the feeling he only sees that it made me mad! Which made me madder!

I just have to laugh this off. :bouncy
And go from here. This is going right in her journal though.

[MissLotus]

NO WAY. There is no way he can get away with that. Who cares if he apologizes - he's IRRESPONSIBLE. If it were me I'd march down to the courthouse requesting supervised visitation....after all, SOMEONE has to supervise those children, since he apparently isn't going to.

And I certainly would tell the parents of the 5-mo-old. Wouldn't you want to know if your babysitter was leaving your infant alone?!

Who knows what else he's done....this is just one time he was CAUGHT. (And even then he didn't admit to buying alchol). This guy should not be watching children!

RL

[BelovedK]

NO WAY. There is no way he can get away with that. Who cares if he apologizes - he's IRRESPONSIBLE. If it were me I'd march down to the courthouse requesting supervised visitation....after all, SOMEONE has to supervise those children, since he apparently isn't going to.

And I certainly would tell the parents of the 5-mo-old. Wouldn't you want to know if your babysitter was leaving your infant alone?!

Who knows what else he's done....this is just one time he was CAUGHT. (And even then he didn't admit to buying alchol). This guy should not be watching children!

RL
:truedat:

[CorasMama]

Please, please, please remember that children see themselves as a product of both of their parents, and if her daddy is bad, then part of her must be, also. Don't say bad things about him where she can hear you.

My dd's birth father was a terrible parent for the 11 months I tried to let him be / get him to be a dad. Luckily for her, my xdh adopted her, and he's a great dad. But she asks some about her birth father, and I never bad-mouth him to or around her, no matter how much it would truly be warranted! I tell her that he's not her dad because he was not ready to be a dad, or he was not able to parent her, or stuff like that. I don't tell her that he made atrocious choices, didn't pay CS, had anger issues, and eventually gave up the (copious) visitation I offered him because it came with strings attached that he not get unsupervised visitation until he got counseling. I don't tell her that I kicked him out because he tried to hit me when he tried to hit me when I was preg, or that he refused to stop smoking pot when I got preg. These are not things that a child should hear. I tell her that mistakes were made, and if she were to pry for specifics (she hasn't) I would tell her that there are some things that she doesn't need to know, and that these are things that are over and don't apply to her current situation.

Daughters having a relationship with their fathers is so important, I would do everything in my power to facilitate it. Can you meet him somewhere, like a park, or this brother's house, or where your x lives? You take a book or work to catch up on, and let it be daddy & daughter time, just with you nearby?

I would keep CS and visitation totally separate. It feels too much like making her into a commodity, for my comfort zone. And quite frankly, he is more likely to tend to his obligations if he sees her and has a relationship with her.

JMHO.

[SunRayeMomi]

Please, please, please remember that children see themselves as a product of both of their parents, and if her daddy is bad, then part of her must be, also. Don't say bad things about him where she can hear you. I hope you didn't get the impression that I do because I am certainly very careful not to do this.

My dd's birth father was a terrible parent for the 11 months I tried to let him be / get him to be a dad. Luckily for her, my xdh adopted her, and he's a great dad. But she asks some about her birth father, and I never bad-mouth him to or around her, no matter how much it would truly be warranted! I tell her that he's not her dad because he was not ready to be a dad, or he was not able to parent her, or stuff like that. I don't tell her that he made atrocious choices, didn't pay CS, had anger issues, and eventually gave up the (copious) visitation I offered him because it came with strings attached that he not get unsupervised visitation until he got counseling. So you did want him to get counseling or have supervised visitation then? This is the cross-roads that I am at now. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt for longer than my daughter has been around, but when it concerns her safety, he's gone too far.

I don't tell her that I kicked him out because he tried to hit me when he tried to hit me when I was preg, or that he refused to stop smoking pot when I got preg. These are not things that a child should hear. I tell her that mistakes were made, and if she were to pry for specifics (she hasn't) I would tell her that there are some things that she doesn't need to know, and that these are things that are over and don't apply to her current situation. I would definitly not tell my 4 year old (or 8yo for that matter) these things, which I also have in common with you. But I do write them (among many other things) in a journal which I may or may not give to her at graduation. I'm still deciding when to give them to her, since I will probably write in them for many years.

Daughters having a relationship with their fathers is so important, I would do everything in my power to facilitate it. Can you meet him somewhere, like a park, or this brother's house, or where your x lives? You take a book or work to catch up on, and let it be daddy & daughter time, just with you nearby? I have tried all these things and thensome. I was conflicted for many years between how important the relationship can be for her, and how f@#$*ed up she could possibly be if I continue to allow his ridiculous behaviour to affect our lives. I believe I have come to the conclusion that he is still not reformed and it isn't worth the crap. She has a wonderful step-father.

I would keep CS and visitation totally separate. It feels too much like making her into a commodity, for my comfort zone. This is why I said "Why bother to mention..." about the CP. But they are related because, although I have always been just fine financially, it's another example of his immaturity and incompetance. When I see him, he will tell me about his latest "party" he went to, then explain that he has no money for CP :eyesroll Keeping the two issues seperate is what I was trying to do for the past four years, but they are all implications of how he's walking all over the two of us and I am enabling it. As for her being a commodity, that is exactly how he treats her, and which I want to protect her from.
And quite frankly, he is more likely to tend to his obligations if he sees her and has a relationship with her.
I thought this too, but he hasn't. He is using me, and her. He told me he loves her, but I say that he loves having something to love and she is a possesion in his mind. I know this of him. :shrug It is evident when he admits to jumping to the store when she asks for candy and leaving her alone to do it. Clearly not a parent's thinking processes, but a desperate man in need of love and acceptance.

Thank you for your post :)