Dealing with bad grades

[mmace]

I have an extremely smart twelve year old sixth grader. She's always had great grades until this year. She moved to the middle school this year, and of course that move gave her much more freedom than she's been used to. Always before she's had assignment sheets and agendas that I've had to initial, so I've always known what homework she's had and when tests would be. I've never micromanaged her - I'm not one of those moms who sit there with her watching her do her homework, correcting every mistake. I'm the mom that looks at the agenda and says "yep, that's done" and "have you studied for your science test?". I'm *always* available to help with a problem, explain (when I can!) the math formulas, and study for the tests, but I've never been up her butt about it. But this year, of course, things aren't as structured. At the beginning of the year she would tell me she had no homework, or that she got all of her assignments done in study hall, and I didn't think anything about it. Dumb mom. Her first report card came along and she had two Cs on it. She'd never even gotten a C on a test up until this point. I flipped out. Now honestly, Cs wouldn't bother me if she were working hard and trying, but both teachers put comments on the report card saying that she wasn't doing her homework, that she wasn't handing in assignments, and that is just not acceptable to me. I instituted a mandatory half hour of study time on school nights, restricted her phone time (didn't take it away completely, just cut it down) and had a long talk with her about my expectations, telling her basically what I said above, that I could handle a C if she were trying hard, but that a C when she wasn't doing the work was not acceptable. Fastforward five weeks to progress report time, and she's still slacking off. Again, good test scores, not handing in homework. We discussed it again, and I informed her that if her next report card (which she received yesterday) had the same problems she would not be allowed to go to the snowball dance (this Friday night). Well, here we are - two more Cs on the report card, same comments from teachers. One teacher went so far as to tell me that she has an A in the class on all of her tests, but the failure to turn in assignments brought her down to a C, barely. She was so close to a D that it's not even funny. She has not changed her group of friends (all above average students) and nothing at home has changed. She does have a boyfriend this year, but they only hang out at school together and talk on the phone, they don't go anywhere or anything....

This morning I received a letter from her (she left it on my desk) trying to "negotiate" with me to allow her to go to the dance Friday night, saying she'll do all kinds of chores for the next two months without complaint. She even offered to change all of her sisters dirty diapers and wash windows once a week. :lol

Sooooo - after that extremely long-winded post, does anyone have any advice for me? Am I out of line thinking that bad grades for failing to do assignments is unacceptable? Should I ride her harder? Punish her more? Or just tell her I don't care anymore and watch her fail? Has anyone else been in this situation and came out of it without losing their minds? Am I just destined to butt heads with her for the next six years of school?!? Help, before I go completely :nut !

[PajamaMama]

I personally would not keep her out of extracurricular activities to punish her.

Junior high school is such a change for kids. They suddenly have these big social lives and all new responsibilities...I'd try to cut her some slack. That said, you COULD micromanage her a bit, get her a planner, have her write her assignments in it, and make sure they have been done...tell her teachers you're going to do this...

My nephew is in 8th grade and I know that he had a rough transition, even though he is a smart kid and a good student in general. One thing that made him buckle down was the thought of losing sports eligibility. Does your dd want to participate in anything like that?

Good luck. I am hs'ing so I will avoid this transitional challenge, though I am sure there will be others! :hug

[mmace]

I personally would not keep her out of extracurricular activities to punish her.

I don't like having to do it, either. When the progress report came out she had only one C, and it was a high C. We discussed the fact that she had lots of time (almost five weeks) to bring it up, and agreed at that time that she would not be going to the dance if she didn't. She assured me then that she would bring it up, and that she understood why I was upset. She was actually the one that said she could do it, and that if she didn't she wouldn't go to the dance. Then instead of one high C, she brought home a report card with two very low Cs. Honestly, I feel that if I now tell her she can go to the dance, I'll be doing our relationship a disservice. She needs to know that when a commitment is made it needs to be kept. But I want so much to let her go. But letting her go would be backpeddaling. But I want to be a "cool" parent. But I want her to strive to do her best - and again, if Cs were her best I wouldn't have a problem with it. Ugh. Parenting is hard!

[MaShroom]

Boy, I wish I had some miracle answer to this one! My 13 yo dd is doing the same thing. Combine that with a really awful math teacher (I'm not the only parent who would like to be rid of this teacher), a really ugly divorce (she's 13-she knows what's going on) and starting her period all at the same time! Um, things could be better, you know?
We just take it day to day. I have been in contact with her counselor at school and the teachers. She does have a planner that she is supposed to fill out every day and hasn't done it in 4 months. I like the planner idea and think that we are going to have to go back to her using it, like it or not, I've got to put my foot down.
When she was in cheerleading during football season she kept her grades up and she wants to go out for track again. I agree that sports can be a huge motivation for grades to stay up. At least it has been for her.
I think just keeping communication open with her is a great thing. When I was that age I just totally shut down in school. We had a major family crisis and school just wasn't important to me anymore. My parents handled it badly. They were up my butt about it and that made it worse. They thought that taking away everything was the answer. IMO, my dd is responding better to natural consequences. She is supposed to be going to FL over spring break to visit my sister. Not going to happen if her math grade doesn't come up. I just explained that if she isn't going to put forth the effort with her "job" why should we go the extra mile for her to have a good time? It doesn't make sense.
I don't limit her time with her friends or anything. Things are hard enough socially when you're that age. Plus, they weren't a problem when she was getting good grades and I don't think they're a problem now. They seemed to help each other with the work.
She wants desperately to get a paying job this year when she turns 14. If she can't get her school work done that won't happen either.
At this point, I have emailed her math teacher and told her that she is going to be there every afternoon until she is caught up and knows the material. Simply staying after school every day is probably going to cramp her style to the point that she will get it done. And I think she needs the extra time there, where it is quiet and she has the teacher's attention.
Does your dd's school have after school study time or anything? Here, if a student doesn't complete an assignment, they get an "academic opportunity". Basically, they have to call home and get permission to stay after to finish the assignment which is then accepted with a cut grade. But at least it gets done. At first I wasn't too hip on the idea but it seems to work. Ok, sorry, I'm :blah :blah :blah rattling on. Good luck to both of you, hope things get better!!

[rebeccalizzie]

Okay, as the kid who did this *all* through school (boy did I :lol ) I suggest letting her go to the dance and then micromanaging her. Punishing me never helped, it just made me mad at my mom. I know that doesn't make sense, but there it is. You are the mom, if you don't want to go back on your word I understand that, but I really don't think it will do a thing to help.

However, your DD has proven she can't be trusted to do her work consistently without you checking on her. I don't know how good junior high teachers are about this, but when we had this problem with DD last year, her teacher started initialing her planner book to show that she had written down all the assignments and any pending tests. Then when she came home, she had to show it to me and I tracked it all for her for a while until I was sure she was managing her own time again. Honestly, I think your DD is probably overwhelmed and may be secretly relieved to have someone overseeing her until she is comfortable doing it on her own.

Good luck

[SaneMarguerite]

OK - I'm not a mom. I am in no position to give advice. However, I was a 12-year-old high-test-scoring homework-ignorer, much like your daughter.

if you get good and angry, micromanage, buy assignment books and agendas, call her teachers, keep a really close eye, make life all about school, take away privileges, etc...she could straighten up, and no one will call you a bad parent because after all, you see her potential and you're just trying to make sure she lives up to it and she'll thank you later when she gets into a good college and is a big success and makes you so proud, like you know she's capable of doing.

or she could get into a good college and immediately, when she realizes nobody's watching, ditch school altogether in favor of less stressful pursuits. and she'll by then be a legal grownup and may not respond to your attempts to re-straighten her out.

or, you can take the hit now, let her tank a semester or two and learn to deal with the consequences. I assure you, a poor showing in sixth grade won't ruin her chances of getting into Harvard. Sure, people might think you're a bad mother TODAY, but by the time she's developed a sense of pride and achievement that comes from within, and not imposed from above, and acts on her dreams with confidence and strength, they'll probably shut up.

can you tell which course of action my parents took? I vividly remember my middle school-high school years as a neverending cycle of punishments, groundings, silent treatments, beatings, lying, evading, failing, and all of it - from semester grades to spelling quizzes - SO CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT TO MY FUTURE OH MY GOD IF YOU FAIL THIS YOU WILL FAIL YOUR LIFE AREN'T YOU LISTENING? "Repeat after me - homework is the most important thing!" rages my dad. "homework is the most important thing!" I peep back, not convincing at all...lather/rinse/repeat...when the grades come back, and the results are (as expected) miserable, he says "but you said homework is the most important thing! how can you do this to us? to yourself? what is wrong with you? you're smarter than this!...it's all your mother's fault..." what happened with this course of action is that I wound up hating school, and hating everything involved with school, and fearing my parents to the point where we don't talk to this day.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but obviously this really hit a nerve with me. I'm sorry if I'm rambling and not on-topic.

dance or no dance? well, y'all made a deal and she broke it - far more disturbing than her bad grades in and of themselves. figure out a way she can make restitution for breaking her word to you, and if there's a way that can be accomplished where she can still go to the dance, then great.

[TiredX2]

Can you get her in some harder classes?

I cannot see any motivation for her to do the homework. Homework is supposed to be practice for tests--- to help you understand the material and have some extra chances to go over it. If she is consistently getting As on the tests WITHOUT paying attention or doing the homework, she obvsiouly already knows the material.

I do understand that sometimes you need to stuff that you don't really "need", but if this is happening in ALL of her classes I think you have a larger problem than her needing to do the homework.

[sunnysideup]

I would not punish her. In my experience it just doesn't help reach the long term goal. You want her to understand the importance of doing her homework and establish a good routine of doing it on her own. I would sit down with her and ask her what you can do to help her get her homework done-- what time would be best to set aside for doing homework? would a planner or a homework calendar help? Where would be the best place for doing homework? (a central location with a big work surface), etc. Set up a good daily routine with your daughter and help her fallow through with it. It will take some micro-managing on your part, but just until she gets used to the routine. It is importantant to involve her in the process of establishing the plan for doing her homework. You don't want her to feel as though you're forcing her to do this. You're helping her.

[CarrieMF]

It was HER idea that she would do her assignments, hand them in and get better or the consequence was her not going to this social event. She did not hold up her end of the bargain, imo she should not be allowed to go. This is a test, if you let her get away with not following through it will continue to get worse. She is old enough to know & understand that her actions have consequences. Not allowing her to go is not a punishment, it is the natural consequence that she herself came up with.

She has study periods where she should be doing her homework. Is her boyfriend in these same study periods with her? You don't need to ban the boyfriend(that just backfires anyhow), but perhaps if she starts doing her homework during study hall & handing it in then she could be allowed to see her boyfriend outside of school.

One thing that made him buckle down was the thought of losing sports eligibility. Does your dd want to participate in anything like that?

IMO not letting her go to the dance is exactly the same as this above senario.

[mmace]

Thanks so much for all of your thoughts. I just sat down and wrote my daughter a letter (she wrote to me, so I thought I should write back to her!). I started by telling her how much I love her, and what a wonderful daughter and big sister she is. I then went on to talk about the fact that I'm disappointed in her grades, because (like I told you before) they are low because she is not handing in her work. Like I keep saying, she *can* get good grades - that's why it's so frustrating. I went on to discuss the fact that we had made a deal, and that she didn't hold up to her end. I didn't tell her she was not allowed to go to the dance. I didn't tell her she was allowed to go to the dance. I ended by asking her if she really thought she *deserved* to go to the dance. I'm hoping this will open us up to another good conversation, and that we can make plans on how to resolve this situation.

Just a few more thoughts:

Homework is supposed to be practice for tests--- to help you understand the material and have some extra chances to go over it. This is true in a lot of cases, like math, but in her case she is not doing things like writing English essays, not working on Geography assignments, things that are grades in and of themselves, not just practice for tests.

I would sit down with her and ask her what you can do to help her get her homework done-- what time would be best to set aside for doing homework? would a planner or a homework calendar help? Where would be the best place for doing homework? (a central location with a big work surface), etc. Set up a good daily routine with your daughter and help her fallow through with it. We've also done this. She prefers to do her homework immediately after school. Her brother does his then as well. I make sure that the little one is busy with her own things, and they both sit at the kitchen table (her choice - she could also work at her desk in her room). Her brother is always done quickly (he's only in first grade) and then he is off to do his own thing. She says she likes to work at the table so she can ask me questions easily if she needs to. I *see* her doing work - the problem is that I don't know if she is doing *all* of her work, if she is prioritizing, or just trying to look busy.

This is a test, if you let her get away with not following through it will continue to get worse. She is old enough to know & understand that her actions have consequences. Not allowing her to go is not a punishment, it is the natural consequence that she herself came up with. This is also my thinking. Thanks for putting it into better words than I was able to come up with!

She has study periods where she should be doing her homework. Is her boyfriend in these same study periods with her? You don't need to ban the boyfriend(that just backfires anyhow), but perhaps if she starts doing her homework during study hall & handing it in then she could be allowed to see her boyfriend outside of school. Boyfriend is in her short study hall (10 minutes), so I don't expect her to do any work then. But she also has a longer study hall (30 minutes) three times a week that she says is "boring" because none of her friends are in there. Perfect time to get things done in my opinion! I have no intention of trying to ban the boyfriend - I saw how that backfired when my parents tried it with my sister! - they talk on the phone, hang out at school, and he's attended youth group activities with her a few times - but there won't be any time spent together outside of school for a looonngggggg time!

[sunnysideup]

Not allowing her to go is not a punishment, it is the natural consequence that she herself came up with. Actually, the natural consequence of not doing your homework is getting bad grades. The natural consequence of getting bad grades is (possibly) not getting into the college of your choice. Any consequence that has to be inforced by a parent cannot be called a natural consequence.

[SaneMarguerite]

CarrieMF said:
This is a test, if you let her get away with not following through it will continue to get worse. She is old enough to know & understand that her actions have consequences. Not allowing her to go is not a punishment, it is the natural consequence that she herself came up with."

well, sorta. but it's not like all children who don't do their homework are incapable of dancing. she may realize that plenty of other kids who don't get good grades are out dancing up a storm.

a "natural" consequence situation would be one wherein she broke her leg (god forbid) and therefore could not dance. she's not disabled or incapable of dancing - she just said she'd perform some action in order to secure permission to go, and she did not perform this action, and therefore (by mutual agreement) permission is revoked.

in my household everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) was was contingent on grades grades grades. everything was a "privilege" to be revoked. It got to the point where I never bothered to ask to do anything, never expressed a desire to do anything, nor a preference for anything - because the minute I did, it became a bargaining chip for my parents to take away whenever they thought I needed "motivation".

you want her to love learning, right? and really enjoy the process of expanding her world, and take pride in her achievements? in my opinion, you can help her do that, but not by tying academic performance to everything else she does.

her main error was not doing poorly in school, but in failing to do what she said she was going to do.

[lckrause]

Have you asked her why she doesn't want to do the homework? Maybe she finds it boring, repetitive, useless? Maybe she thinks she has better things to do with her time? Maybe she just doesn't know how to fit it in to her schedule? (Lots of people, including me, have fearsome troubles managing their time.) Maybe she feels that the grades she gets in middle school just won't have an effect on her life?

I'd definitely talk with her about the "why"s before deciding how to punish her or motivate her.

[mmace]

Oh, I've asked her all of those things, and I keep getting every moms favorite answer - "I don't know". :nut

Soooo - this morning it's turned into "Well, K told A that she likes B (that's the boyfriend) and that if I can't go to the dance she's going to follow him around the whole time and get him to dance with her and I'm afraid he's going to break up with me."

Talk about feeling manipulated.

Honestly, I want to let her go to the dance. But I just can't come up with a way of letting her go and not look like a total pushover. I've tried to figure out a way of negotiating a different "punishment" (I don't like to use that word, because this wasn't supposed to be a punishment thing - this was something we agreed would happen) but I just can't come up with any way of letting her go and not look like I'm backpeddaling. Like someone else said, I don't want to look like I'm going to just give in on everything whenever the going gets tough.

[iamthesmilingone]

I am still pretty new to mdc and gawd am I impressed with the brain power here :)) With all the previous post, surely the answer is in there somewhere and within your dd too! My dd (same age as yours) tanked her 5th grade last year. She is bright but well... on the laid back aka lazy side. And it took us by complete surprise that she got not only a couple D's but also, just for good measure, an F. It turns out that she did not like her teacher, found the work to be beyond useless and boring (it was!), felt some stress over her brother and was warring with her friends. The teacher we couldn't change. The homework, however boring, had to be done. And girls at this age- let's just say they can be quite mean.

We had a meeting with the principal and all talked, minus the teacher. I have never been one to stray to far from natural consequences and worked hard not to here either. She got nothing took away. We structured her time for her more than we ever did before though. And oddly enough, we added extracurric. activites. That was at her request after we ASKED HER what she thought would help her out. It seemed to be counterintuitive to some people but I trust my dd tell me what she needs. Through it all, I sincerely believe that we could have done any number of things and still had good results. What mattered was we did something. She saw there was a whole group of adults that thought she was very bright and capable, understood why she was having issues and cared about her.

Hey- my ds, also :ribjig: is abput the is about the same age as your ds.

[mmace]

Thanks again for all of the advice! Just an update: tonight is the big dance, and my daughter will not be going. She isn't happy about it, but I really do feel that standing firm in our agreement is the right thing to do. I'm sure everyone at her school knows that I'm the meanest mommy in the world, but she has to know that I'm not going to back down on things that matter. Thanks again!

[Tinas3muskateers]

You have created the thought process in her head that as a 6 th grade student these are her responsablities, and she must complete these tasks inorder to not only pass but to be able to enjoy the fun things in life.
What I mean by this, explain to her that because she has proven she is too irresponsable to complete her assignments, as required of a 6th grader, that you and the teacher will be writing her assignments down and just like in grade school you will sign that they are completed. You as the parent must check this work, make sure its complete, sign that paper inorder for her to go to the dance that night or sleep at a friends house.
Just as working parents must first , work, pay bills, etc.. before they can go to a dinner and a movie. It's no different.
After this has been instilled she will want to prove that she isnt a "baby" and more and is capable of taking care of her responsiblites with the understanding that in life we have to do the not so plesant things in order to enjoy the finer things in life.

[Tinas3muskateers]

Thanks again for all of the advice! Just an update: tonight is the big dance, and my daughter will not be going. She isn't happy about it, but I really do feel that standing firm in our agreement is the right thing to do. I'm sure everyone at her school knows that I'm the meanest mommy in the world, but she has to know that I'm not going to back down on things that matter. Thanks again!


FYI its ok to be the meanest mommy, it isnt a popularity contest lol. I am the meanest mommy, I have rules imagine that. Most of her friends do what they want when they want. Doesnt work that way around here. I aways joke about that "Mean Mommy!" but I am the funniest one, the goofiest one, the youngest one, and the easiest to talk to. So it could be worse :)

[SaneMarguerite]

so how did y'all survive the weekend? what did she do with herself instead of going to the dance?

[PicnicBear]

I haven't read all the other replies, so sorry if something has already been discussed, but I had to chime in. You daughter sounds just like I was! I got a lot of bad grades, starting at about her age. Fast forward about 15 years later, I am less than a year away from a science PhD at a top university. For me, I was someone who did not (as still does not) do something just because someone told me to. I did have a problem with authority in terms of really feeling ready to make my own decisions and follow my own intersts at a young age when others were still telling me what to do (teachers, my parents were pretty good and had an attitude a lot like yours).

Anyway, I think there are two things that could help her get better grades (this is what helped me -- eventually).

1. reason with her that you understand that the assignments she is not doing are probably B.S. but that, in order to reach some of her goals (if this is true), like going to college, she has to have the piece of paper with certain letters on it. This way, you are taking her side, really, but just trying to convince her to go through the motions.

2. Put her in a situation where whe is studying what she loves, or in a way that is more appealing to her. For example, I first got really "into" school when I started studying geology -- I loved the outdoors, the lab assignments, I didn't like book learning, eventually, I got so into geology that I did a lot of book learning, but the key what that it was my choice to do so. the work I do now is in a lab where we get down on the floor and work with tools, play with lasers, etc. It's so fun. Someone else might hate that work.

Because of my experience I pan to homeschool my kids. Your daugther sounds to be totally bored and it's a shame that she is being punished for not doing her busywork, which I feel she has every right to blow off!

ETA -- just want to be clear, I don't mean that you are "punishing her" -- I understand you deal about the dance, I mean that she is being punished by the school system.

[mmace]

Thanks again for everything - you guys really gave me a lot to think about!

The weekend went fine. We just basically hung out Friday night - she pouted a bit, but I think she still loves me! :thumb

The boyfriend, however, did go to the dance with another girl and even slow danced with her. Apparently they are still together (my daughter and boyfriend, that is...) - but we haven't heard from him in a few days, so I'm not sure what's going on with that.