Almost 3 yrs. old and deteriorating behavior???

[Rainbowbird]

Please tell me that the "terrible twos" do not turn into the "more terrible threes". Actually, our son was really fairly calm during age 2, and I always hated the "terrible two" label because I thought it was a pretty great age, despite the behavioral ups and downs.

He turns 3 in Feb. The past week or so his behavior has gone so far downhill, though, it reminds me of when he was 18-24 mos. old and beginning to act out for the first time. Except that when he was two, it was a lot easier to deal with! Short outbursts that could be redirected and a nap schedule that kept us both sane. Even when he had a biting and hitting phase, it was so babyish that DH and I just always felt like we could handle it by walking away and then teaching him gentle behavior.

But the actual behaviors this time around are so much more upsetting. He blows raspberries at us when we ask him to do something, like pick up a toy or not whack his 8 month old sister on the head. He will repeat the same negative behavior over and over. He never truly hurts his sister, but his behaviors suggest aggression and they startle her sometimes. He makes her cry a lot, so I am constantly intervening. I really cannot leave her side for an instant, even if she is in the high chair right next to me, he will do a fly-by and snatch a toy off her tray, etc.

We do not spank, but we do time-outs. And lately I am ashamed to say that both DH and I have been raising our voices and even yelling. Which feels awful, and I know it scares DS, though sometimes it's the only thing that makes him stop what he is doing.

Tonight when I attempted to get DS upstairs for his bath, he yelled at me to go away. I asked him not to yell and he blew a raspberry at me. This is the "new" sassy behavior that is really taking me by surprise. I took him into his room, staying very calm the whole time, and told him that he could not shout or spit at me and that it was very rude. I asked him to wait in his room for a min. while I got the bath ready. I closed his door and he threw a large hardcover book at it, making a loud bang. I went in and told him that we do not throw books, and asked him to pick it up, which he did. Maybe I should have taken the book away for a day or two? It was a favorite book and one he is exploring some issues with---it's a Clifford book where the kids fall through ice when Clifford breaks it, and DS has been having lots of questions about why the kids fell in, where their parents were, etc. He keeps bringing it up and we have been talking about safety, etc. trying to reassure him.

Anyway...

I just do not know what is going on or how to handle it. He is eating a lot lately, esp. protein. In fact he turned down almost everything else today except protein-rich foods! He eats a good diet, very little sugar or juice. All his molars are in. He had a touch of croup last week, but that is gone.

We try to spend quality time with him to minimize the jealousy he still seems to feel toward his baby sister. I am a SAHM and I take him and DD out several times a week on errands, playdates, playgroups, story time, etc. and we have play dates at our house, too. On weekends we do a special family outing, and one of us takes DS out on special one-on-one outing, too. His toys are quality toys that are open ended and get rotated if appropriate. I am limiting his TV but what he does watch is very gentle, like Little Bear or Thomas the Tank Engine. Winter is hard as we can't get out as much, but I do the best I can weather permitting.

I feel for him b/c I know that since his sister was born last May, his little life has changed a lot. We used to go out even more and let's face it, he had all my attention. I don't know if this is still a rivalry issue or not.

He has stopped napping except for every 4th day or so when he literally falls down asleep in his room during imposed "quiet time". I am sure that the sleep issue is part of it but he has been going without regular naps for several mos. now.

What the heck is going on, mamas? And what can I do that I haven't tried already? BTW, his father is getting good and fed up and worried that we are spoiling him or should start spanking him, even--I have gotten him to agree that we will not spank but I know he is not convinced of this being a good idea.

What to do, what to do. Sorry for the ramble. I've just had a horrid day and feel like I don't know what to do.

[georgia]

I have been told (and read) that the six weeks before and following a half birthday and whole birthdays are periods of disintegration. If you think of a tower of blocks, the tower of two blocks is knocked over so that it can be rebuilt, higher, stronger and more stable with one more block--a new skill, new words, new whatever.

A few suggestions: you might want to check out the time-out thread here (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=404536). It sounds like he needs your presence, not separation. Time-outs, IMO, are punishment. As is the taking a favorite book away. Also, instead of telling him what is not acceptable, tell him what is (touch gentle rather than don't hit).

Sorry for the ramble :) He sounds very normal.

[Rainbowbird]

Thanks. I didn't take the book away. But we have had a rule in the past that if he throws a toy, it is taken away, so that is why I asked the question.

So if he is in my face yelling and spitting, how do you rephrase that so you are telling him what to do instead of what not to do? Let's see..thinking aloud here...use a quiet voice please. But what about the spitting part? We do tell him to touch gentle all the time. In fact I have joked that DD's first word is going to be, "Gentle, gentle". Because that is all she ever hears when her brother is around! I show him how to touch her arm or leg. Encourage him to help me get her a toy etc. when I am busy with her. That kind of thing.

The time outs....I have resorted to them probably as a time out for myself, too. And as a way to get him to calm down. He gets so wild, running around, throwing stuff, grabbing at his sister. I know part of it is that I don't have my hands free like I used to. I used to be able to get right on his level immediately and address the issues. Now I am likely to have a baby in my arms, or be in the middle of a diaper change, etc. It is just so much harder to jump on it in a positive way, you know?

I guess what you are saying is that I should keep on doing what I have always done, even though the behaviors are worse? I guess I feel like I need to do something different. But maybe what I am doing is already correct, it just feels like I have to escalate in some way just because he is. KWIM? Arghhh...I know that's not right,I don't mean to sound I think it is. I just feel so...

ineffective! And sad for my poor little guy who is obviously going through something here.

Interesting about the birthdays. I do think I read something about that. Although if it is 6 weeks before and after every half and whole birthday, that pretty much means disintegration all the time , doesn't it??????? Hope not!

[Piglet68]

I can tell you that this is SOOOO normal. A month or so before DD turned 3 I thought aliens had kidnapped her and replaced her with a look-alike insane person. I had read threads on this forum saying this is what happens but I still wasn't prepared for how challenging her behaviours were. Up until that point, I really thought I had a handle on this parenting thing. The worst I'd done is yell at her (and that was only after number 2 child came along), but the start of age 3 is when things really took a turn. I'm ashamed to say that it took me some time to get back on my feet, and we spent last summer in a bad parenting place. I yelled, I scolded, and I attempted in knee-jerk reaction moments to use punishments and consequences like withdrawing the object-of-the-moment, etc. I can tell you that all these things only made everything worse. If you think engaging in power struggles with toddlers is a waste of energy, you haven't seen anything until you've faced the sheer tenacity and will of a burgeoning three-year old!

So, it's normal and there is nothing wrong with your child. Phew. :) But you are going to have to learn a whole new set of parenting and coping skills, both to deal with your child and to keep yourself from losing it.

Tips: ditch the timeouts and punishments. You are just asking your child to "misbehave" when you challenge them like that. I call it "setting them up to fail". For example, you order your child to stay in the room while you go run the bath. Any self-respecting three year old is going to resent that display of power. Hurling a book at the door is par for the course. Your child is acting rationally; expecting him to obey an order to stay there is not. :)

Things like blowing raspberries and using offensive or potty-mouth language is an experiment on their part. They are only just learning about their own power and how they can affect others. I have found through experience that the best way to deal with this is ignoring it completely. My DD's thing was to start drooling and letting gobs of spit fall on the floor. The more I reacted the more she did it, until I was a yelling puddle of lost self-control. When I just ignored it (not ignored her, you understand, just said very calmly and matter-of-factly that spitting was considered rude and I didn't appreciate it) and then right away move on to the subject at hand as if nothing happened well, within a couple of days it was over.

Also, this is the age where the following advice is the most useful: when your child is at their worst behaviour, that is when they need your affection and attention more than ever. We dealt with hitting and pushing her baby brother. I actually got rough with her on more than one occasion over this, I'm ashamed to say. We dealt with it for months, and what finally helped the most was when I realized that she KNEW hitting/pushing was wrong and she didn't need me shaming/reminding her about that. What she needed most was hugs. Yep, you read me right. She hits her brother, and I say "wow, you hit Sasha. he's crying because he's hurt. what can we do to help make him feel better?" all the while giving her a hug (and comforting DS of course). I cannot stress enough what a change this produced in her. AND...what a huge change there was in the atmosphere in our house. Her being three had turned our normally peacful home into a tense place full of tears and outbursts (and not just from the kids, lol). After I came to my senses and embraced that motto above, things transformed back into a home of peace and love. Yes, there are more conflicts than there were when she was younger: being three is HARD, for everybody, including your child. But she turned 3.5 this past month I'm totally in the groove again. I'd say for the last couple of months I've felt like a "normal" parent, able to cope with her behaviours calmly and effectively. I look back on it now as a learning experience, but it was a tough one!

Anyways, I've rambled enough. I've just SO been there, and the journey is still very fresh in my mind. Hope I have helped somewhat. :hug

[Rainbowbird]

Thanks, Piglet 68, it is a relief to know that others have been there and survived. Guess it all just took me by surprise....I thought the twos were the worst we would deal with and we had such a nice patch of smooth sailing for awhile there!

I so agree with you that he needs more love and attention at these times. In fact one of the things I forgot to mention is that he is carrying his binkie and blankey around constantly these days, wanting to bring it to the potty, to the changing table, to the car, etc. He is also biting the binky which is something he does in time of stress. The last time he did it was after being hospitalized for rotavirus last spring. Haven't seen it since until now. So, anyway, there have been times, I'm happy to say, that I've managed to keep my patience and try to talk him through his episodes, and sometimes he will cry when we do, like a stress relief. But can't articulate what is wrong, of course. Again this is harder to do when an 8 month old is literally crying for your attention. But I have to stop feeling like, well, I can't do x because I have 2 kids and one is a baby...not like i'm the first one to have 2 kids under age 3 to care for!

In the past, time outs have worked quite well as they have enabled him and me to calm down. He doesn't usually cry or throw things in his room, he will sit quietly for a min. But I have mixed feelings on time out, anyway...I haven't resolved my concerns over it and yet it seems to help.

As for punishments, the only one we have used is removing an object that has been used inappropriately (like hurling a train across the room). I don't feel that this is wrong, it seems like a natural consequence to me--if something is being used in an unsafe way where it could hurt someone or get damaged, it is removed for a day or so. Why is that wrong?

I don't take anything else away for ANY reason.

Anyway, thanks for the empathy and ideas. I sure hope today is a better day. Another thing I forgot to mention is that yesterday was the first day of my period....surely not a coincidence that yesterday was the toughest day in a long LONG time! Seems like when my mood is overall better I can jolly him out of the worst of it so I will hopefully be able to do that today!

[georgia]

It is just so much harder to jump on it in a positive way, you know? !

Yes, totally! and it's so surprising the intensity of everyone's emotions. I find it so important to have understanding and supportive people I can talk to about ME and my emotions w/o judgement. It can be so helpful to have like-minded parents to talk with :hug

I guess what you are saying is that I should keep on doing what I have always done, even though the behaviors are worse?

No, what I tried to say (guess not very effectively) is to try something different :) For me, when I get to that "oh-my-god-I-can't-do-this-anymore" feeling is when I know something's gotta change. Almost always, it's been my approach, behavior, attitude, etc.

But maybe what I am doing is already correct, it just feels like I have to escalate in some way just because he is. KWIM? Arghhh...I know that's not right,I don't mean to sound I think it is. I just feel so...ineffective! And sad for my poor little guy who is obviously going through something here.

If it doesn't feel right to you, it's not. And I don't mean that snarky. The spectrum of GD encompasses a lot of techniques. We can pick and choose those that feel right for us and our family. It can be a lot of trial and error. Children's temperaments are SO different, too. What works for one little one may be completely ineffective or antagonizing to another.

Interesting about the birthdays. I do think I read something about that. Although if it is 6 weeks before and after every half and whole birthday, that pretty much means disintegration all the time , doesn't it???????

Yep :) Pretty much! It's an adventure...I hope things start smoothing out soon :hug

[Rainbowbird]

Thanks again, Georgia. Ya know, the thing is I thought I was doing it all right. I mean, we don't spank, we are very calm and loving, we set the example, talk it out, etc. It is only recently in the last couple of weeks we've been losing our patience and yelling. So what I meant is what I was doing before seemed right, but obviously isn't right anymore, I guess. I am not sure what else I can do, except try to empathize more and understand DS. And try to tap deep into my well of patience at ALL times..

Today was better. He did blow up a few times, scream when his toy trains didn't do what he wanted, and had a tantrum on the way out of the playroom of the Community Center, despite my best intentions to prepare him for our exit smoothly. But I did try to "be" in the moment a little more with him, really try to empathize with his frustration and stay calm even when he was sorely trying my patience. I only raised my voice once, and it really wasn't even quite yelling (I don't think) when he lifted his hobby horse over his sister's head as if to boink her one. I was scared more than anything and kinda yelped "No! Floor, DS, Floor!" (He knows toys like that are supposed to stay near the floor). Then I explained about how her little head could get bumped, etc. Unfortunately he didn't get it, started waving it around her head again, and I had to take the horse away before DD got hurt.

At any rate, I feel a little better today. I actually cried myself to sleep last night (DH was already asleep so I couldn't talk to him) b/c I felt so bad for DS and how we had been handling him. My dad was a big time yeller and I don't want DS to grow up in a house like that. DH agreed with me tonight that we would find other solutions and would not use yelling as a form of discipline. I reminded him that DS is the child here and depends on us to get him through these phases in better shape than he went into them...and that we shouldn't be sinking to the emotional level of a 3 year old when dealing with one!

Anyway, thanks for posting back again. It really helps to hear from other mamas who have been through it and remind me of the stuff I already know, but seem to forget when things get so tough.

[Piglet68]

I'm glad you are feeling better. One of the things that helps me is to remember that it's HER crisis, not mine. So if your child is screaming because his toy trains weren't doing what he wanted, you can distance yourself from it because it is HIS problem. I find doing this mentally frees me up to be empathetic to him. "Wow, you sound really frustrated.", etc.

[Susan Kunkel]

My oldest ds is now 4 so I have been thru the rough three year old period. Ialso have a 20 month old ds .He is a May baby also. My 4 year old would go thru the crazies. He would go totally out of control. What helped was for me to stay calm.Hard at times Iknow. I stop what Iam doing ias soon as possible.I then get him to his room for quiet play time, put him on the couch with a blanket and a pile of books,or tell him to go to were we keep the puzzles. I thru out the day make sure that he has eaten. I also plan times for him to get his energy out.We kick ball in the back yard,go to the park,take walks.Yesterday because of the rain I had him jump across throw pillows. I have found that when the crazies strike a regular time out only backfires. I hope this helps
Susan

[georgia]

I am not sure what else I can do, except try to empathize more and understand DS. And try to tap deep into my well of patience at ALL times..

I think you totally nailed this above. Empathy is critical. And patience, well, more than I ever imagined needing...and I constantly run short. I totally understand where you are right now. Guess that's why I responded...I usually let the *experts* weigh in :) You are your child's expert---it sounds like you needed a sounding board, but you already knew where to go with this :hug

I actually cried myself to sleep last night (DH was already asleep so I couldn't talk to him) b/c I felt so bad for DS and how we had been handling him.

I also totally understand this :hug. I've cried myself to sleep many nights wishing I was a better mother :(. Which reminds me--something that I found really important is to get plenty of sleep. I function SO much better with more rest. Please go easy on yourself. You are trying really hard, and it's ok to make mistakes. Apologize, forgive yourself and move on :thumb

My dad was a big time yeller and I don't want DS to grow up in a house like that.

I grew up in a yelling household, and GD does not come intuitively to me. It's a constant struggle to remind myself how I want to respond, esp. in times of stress. I already know all too well how I don't want to be. So glad to hear today was better. I hope tomorrow is even more better. You sound like a wonderful, caring mama. If you've ever read Dr. Sears' Discipline Book where he said three year olds are a mother's dream---

----he lied :lol

[Fuamami]

Rainbow, it sounds like things are going better, but I had to post because our children are so close in age. And I've been seeing things I'd never seen before.

In fact, I was just reading a post by another mother with a 24 month old and she was talking about how wonderfully they get along and how when she peacefully explains things to her dd, she happily acquieses. Well, I know this isn't very nice, and it might not be true for her, but I couldn't help it. I thought, "You just wait...my dd used to be like that too."

Anyway, it seems like part of the problem around here is like what Piglet68 said. They know what they're doing is wrong, and they don't really like that they did it. I've noticed my dd becoming much more "embarrassable", if you will excuse my made-up word. Today she hit ds, and I got down and said in my serious voice, "Ramona, we don't hit. I can see you're frustrated, but you cannot hit." and she just melted. She was so ASHAMED! She hid her face and hid under the table. It broke my heart. I mean, sort of. I'm glad she's developing such a wonderful conscience, but I felt so bad for her, too.

So I guess this ramble is to say that ONE thing I've figured out is that the acting out might occasionally be a cover for embarrassment. But not always. Other times, I think she's just possessed. :bouncy

In all seriousness, I agree that we need to reconnect and figure out this new phase in our relationship, and the rest will hopefully fall into place.

[Rainbowbird]

Just an update---today is better than the past two days although still rough. He did give me a good kick today---not totally on purpose, though he was being very rough and I think knew it. It brought tears to my eyes and he noticed. "You cry, Mama. Why?" I told him I was hurt that he kicked me. Naturally he kicked me again, though not very hard. Then he kissed me and got me a tissue. I don't really cry in front of my kids often, I think I am just so hormonal this week due to my period and being so worried about DS I just got teary-eyed. I have really been trying to be EXTRA patient. For example, giving in to small demands that amazingly placate him instead of making him beg for more and more. Like reading even more stories than usual, definitely more than I feel I have time for, etc. Teaching him how to put his own waffle in the toaster and push the button down. I got to play with him alone while his sister took a nap. She doesn't nap that much, so that was precious time. I think that he really misses all our time alone. I know I do!

He also had an episode of growing pains last night. Woke up screaming and crying and it took a half hour to calm him. And continues to eat like a horse. I really think there are big metabolic things going on here.

He is napping now, thank goodness. He has not been taking more than 2 or 3 naps a week for the past six months, and he gets so tired and worn out when he doesn't nap! He used to nap faithfully every single day for 2 or 3 hours! Of course the non-napping affects me, too. I used to have a lot of time to myself, time to get things done. And I don't anymore, esp. with DD to care for. When he fell asleep this afternoon and I came downstairs and made myself tea, as was the old routine, I felt this sense of peace. The sun had come out and DD was happily playing on the rug. I realized that I have really been missing the old routine. When DS doesn't nap, he is so grumpy and hard to entertain. And of course I don't have any time to myself. Taking him out is usually a disaster in the afternoons, and letting him have quiet time in his room can be equally disastrous. It's just been really hard without the naps of late.

Anyway, I'm just glad that things are slowly improving and that this is a normal phase. Thanks again to everyone for the support, it sure is a help to realize I am not alone in this.

I have to mention in closing that I WISH I hadn't participated in a thread last week where I mentioned how easy and wonderful he is now, and never tantrums anymore....clearly I was tempting the gods by those statements! LOL Oh well....

[nataliekat]

Hi, I just wanted to chime in here. My daughter is 3 1/4 and I feel like every sin I've committed in my life up to this point is being revisited upon me tenfold! :nut

Seriously, it's not just you. Every time I come to this forum looking for reassurance on my 3-year-old, there is someone else posting about the very same problem.

You've got some great advice, here, particularly from Piglet (Piglet, you amaze me. You're such a wise mama). I just wanted to emphasize that THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO MAKE THESE BEHAVIORS GO AWAY. It's normal development. There are tricks to make it a little easier, and definitely tuning in is going to make a difference.

But you can't make them go away completely because these are things our children need to go through. It's normal. It's necessary. We're not doing anything wrong.

My rules are
1. Try to be as empathetic as I can,
2. Pick my battles, but when I do pick one, don't lose
3. Keep stating the rules.
4. STAY CALM

I've been told repeatedly by my daughter today that she's going to kill me. God, if that doesn't make you feel like a bad mom.

Reading this forum and knowing I'm not alone ALWAYS helps. I would suggest coming here often.

[TripMom]

Rainbowbird -

I don't have time to read all the posts - but the title of this thread grabbed me. I am you. No problemos during 2s with DS. Terrible 2s? What's that? Major similar problemos starting around 3. Started comparing notes - every mom in our playgroup - same thing. Here is what we did. We read a book -- "Positive Discipline" by Jane Nelson. Its on the GD recommended reading list - and really is awesome. Totally gave us the "understanding" of why DCs were doing what they were doing (which gave us patience) and then gave us the "tools" to address the different behaviours. Its awesome! Our play group even started a book club to go over the book chapter-by-chapter.

Please check it out -

Jessica

PS I'm assuming you haven't read much on discipline because DC didn't have any problems until now? Excuse me if my assumption was wrong - but I certainly found no need to read a book until age 3!

[Rainbowbird]

Hi, Jessica,
Thanks, I will check it out. I actually have read a lot on discipline, but you know how it is in the moment with your own child...sometimes you need to share your personal story and get some personal feedback. And I was having an especially bad day and need some immediate reinforcement and advice from the mamas here.

I used to teach elementary school and used all kinds of creative and positive discipline with my students. I NEVER yelled at my classes. It makes me cry that I yelled at my own child. Isn't it ironic that I would yell at him when I love him more than anything in the world?

I have vowed never to do it again. As I think Namaste said, "Everytime you yell at your child you are teaching them to respond only to yelling." And I cannot bear it.

[wildmonkeys]

Three was much harder age than two for my older son (and I hate to say it, but I think even 4 was even harder than 2...though easier than 3) My younger son is 2.5 and I am already trying to build up a reserve.

Two things that worked well for me were limiting our exposure to an audience when they are really testing me - I found that I cared way more than I expected what other people thought about my son's behavior and it clouded my ability to parent him.

As for never yelling at your classes, but yelling at your child...I once told my mom that I couldn't believe how nuts ds made me sometimes and how he just knows which buttons to push as compared to kids I worked with and she told me that is because strangers just bump into our buttons whereas our family installs them. It might sound negative, but it has helped me at various moments!

BJ
Barney & Ben

[TripMom]

[QUOTE=Rainbowbird]Hi, Jessica,
Thanks, I will check it out. I actually have read a lot on discipline, but you know how it is in the moment with your own child...sometimes you need to share your personal story and get some personal feedback. And I was having an especially bad day and need some immediate reinforcement and advice from the mamas here.QUOTE]

Sorry - Didn't mean to presume that you hadn't read anything -- it was an ignorant assumption based on my experience - I felt that my intuitive approach to discipline was very effective . . .until AGE THREE! That's when I read! Your post sounded so much like me . . . . Anyway . . . I sure know how it is in the moment and I am continually working on improving myself. I just hope my poos DCs survive all my improvements without much baggage!

[equinurse]

Perfect time for this thread...I came to post about my just turned 3 yr old dd, began reading these posts and am now sitting here almost bawling my eyes out. We are going through the same exact thing and I am feeling at wits end. We had the terrific 2's and began the terrible 3's about 2 months ago, which is also when my dd was born.

I try to respond appropriately to her behavior but am totally winging it, and failing miserably. Much of the time she is ok, but then she begins whining,crying and yelling. She had been potty trained, but has had more accidents in the past 2 weeks then ever before.

WWYD with this one? I am cooking dinner in kitchen, have 2 pots of hot water on stove. I ask dd to leave nicely- asking her to play in the living room while the water is boiling. I get the screaming NO and the bouncing around the room. I repeat my request. Same response with laughter. I try to lead her in by the hand. She falls on floor. I pick her up and place her at doorway where she can still see me. she runs inside. I have had enough and carry her to her room for timeout. Phone rings. I talk for 5 minutes, tell dd to come out of her room. She tells me she had an accident. I go to her and find her, the door, the mirror and her clothes covered with poop! She had NEVER done this before. I tell her this is a very naughty thing to do and she is getting a bath and going straight to bed after dinner(which is done) I give her a bath, all the while telling her that she cannot do this again, and how gross this is (not proud of myself for this one) etc...DH comes home, dd is happy with him, I tell him what happened. He immediately almost flies off the handle with punishment (wants to take all her toys away), but I calm him, tell him to just let her go to bed. Dh and I talk when she is upstairs. He is convinced we have to change everything from her preschool to getting very strict. I just don't know what to do.

From this thread she almost sounds normal...Compounding our issue lately is the fact that my 2mon ds has bronchitis and needs lots of attention. Sorry to hijack thread- What can I do, and is the poop thing something to really worry about or is it somethiing 3 yr olds do?

Thank you!

Margie

[nataliekat]

Margie - :hug :hug :hug :hug :hug

Oh, God, it's so hard, isn't it? No real words of wisdom here, but please rest assured that not only is your daughter ALMOST normal, she IS normal! My friend's 3-year-old would take her diaper off, poop in the corner, lay her diaper on top and stomp on it. They love to do the things that really get you mad and there's not much worse than playing in poop. Ugh!

I'm all too familiar with the laughing while running away maneuver :nut :nut :splat :splat :cuss :cuss

Seriously, though, I don't think getting stricter is the answer. Three-year-olds are incredibly strong willed and the harder you push them and try to hold them down the harder they will push back until the situation escalates out of control and we end up engaging in behaviors ourselves that we're not proud of.

What works the best for me is to let go. I've had to let go of A LOT of what I need her to do and not do. It's really hard not to have a compliant child, but trying to force her only makes things worse and I would rather get through most days without yelling at her. No matter how bad it's been that day, I can sigh and say at least I didn't yell at her.

Rambling now mostly for myself. As for the kitchen situation, honestly I probably would have let her stay and kept a close eye on her. But if you have to be absolutely firm on something, you have to also be prepared for what they will do in retaliation. It's amazing the lengths they will go to sometimes to get back at you, isn't it?

As far as poop, I would tell her once seriously and quietly that it's unacceptable, then put her somewhere else while I cleaned it up. Telling them over and over again how bad it is, how gross, how unhappy you are, only makes them tune you out. Tell them once and they get it. I'm sure, however, that I would not have actually done any of this in the moment. So much easier to analyze in hindsight, KWIM?

Anyway, don't be too hard on yourself. You have not and are not doing anything to make her behave this way. She's three, it'll pass (again saying this as much for myself - hasn't passed here yet; I'm just assuming), and it's not worth doing things that you yourself will be ashamed of.

I'm majorly into supporting moms of 3-year-olds, because I need so much support right now myself.

Hugs again.

Natalie

[Elastagirl]

No advice, just empathy all around! :grouphug

Rainbow, our children are almost the exact same ages! So much of your OP and others rings true! DS drives me crazy these days like never before. I've made a conscious decision lately to let most of it roll off my back...if he's not putting his sister or himself in danger! I attempt to empathize with him (you are SO frustrated right now! You sound very angry! You really wish you could fill up the sink and dump water all over the floor and you don't want to stop!)
and I also try to find humor in things. (Your train just went flying past my head! Wait a minute! Trains don't fly! That is sooooo silly! What kind of a crazy train IS that? Let's show it how to zoom around the train tracks!)
Doesn't always work, of course! (she says dodging another flying train car)

I'm glad to hear we're normal....somewhat!

[TripMom]

Hi Equinurse -

yikes. been there. its so hard in the moment - but you have to look at the source of the behavior - and avoid focusing on the behavior itself. I agree with PPs - getting more strict will only ensnarl you in a control battle - avoid that with all costs. 3yos can escalate quite well - you'll find yourself yelling and maybe even wanting to spank - and of course none of this is good or resolves the issue.

Underlying behavior - attention seeking likely? Its a hard one with a new baby - its not like you can stop everything and focus on DD. Might try "special time" - set it up in advance with DD - this is "our" time. Be real focused with her when you do. Another thing is - try to get her involved with the baby - give her an "important job" - go get diaper, or bring me the baby blanket, etc. Another thing is get someone to watch the baby for an hour or so - here and there - and do something just with DD - like go to the park? She may even really feel important if you take her on special errands - like the bank or grocery store? 2 birds with 1 stone there.

Hang in there! I was there 1 year ago - DS 2 yo and newborn triplets!

[Fuamami]

WWYD with this one? I am cooking dinner in kitchen, have 2 pots of hot water on stove. I ask dd to leave nicely- asking her to play in the living room while the water is boiling. I get the screaming NO and the bouncing around the room. I repeat my request. Same response with laughter. I try to lead her in by the hand. She falls on floor. I pick her up and place her at doorway where she can still see me. she runs inside. I have had enough and carry her to her room for timeout.

Well, since you ask, I'd have her sitting on the counter next to me or standing on a chair helping. It's REALLY helping lately to keep her engaged and busy, that's been the secret around these parts to a power-struggle-free day. Or I'd try picking her up and explaining to her about the boiling water and how it's very scary and that you realize she must not have known that it was there, or she wouldn't have been bouncing around, right? That works sometimes, because they seem to really like information.

I wouldn't belabor the poo thing either. And I also try to avoid labeling actions as "naughty" or "nice", just because I don't want her to feel like she's naughty.

Our baby's been sick, too, and it is SO hard to find enough time for the older one. :nut

[writermommy]

I have found 3 to be more challenging than 2 with all three of my dds. I laugh when people mention the "terrible twos". I've always found three to be more difficult. For my own kids, I think they are exerting their independence at this age. They don't want to be told what to do and want to make their own decisions and have their own voices heard. It really is tough, but it does end. My youngest is now 3 years and 4 months. She is coming ourt of her difficult stage and is much easier to deal with now. I agree with pps who said getting into a power struggle is pointless. I would definitely try to avoid it.

For my girls, I noticed that when I try to see the situation through their eyes, it helps me figure out what they need. Sometimes it's just more control over their lives. Other times, they need to help more with "bigger" jobs. Like the running in the kitchen thing. I sit my dd at the table with salad bowls and let her break up lettuce into the bowls while I cook dinner. This keeps her occupied, makes her feel like she's helping and keeps her away from the hot stove.

I've found with all my dds that once I change my approach a bit, the situation gets better. Good luck with your 3 year old. It does pass.

[equinurse]

Thank you for your insights and support. I can't believe that the first time that I came to this forum I got advice that really worked. My dh was amazed. That same night that I posted and read the replies my dd started screaming and whining about something and I said " I know that this makes you angry and you want to scream but we need to speak calmly so that mommy and daddy understand you" . She looked at me and actually did it! Now, I would have said before " Stop Screaming! Thats enough!" or something like that in a loud tone and we would have ended up in a battle of wills. This was much better. The last couple of days with her have actually been enjoyable- now of course she is still doing things to annoy me, but it seems that changing my behavior has made a huge difference. Hopefully we will keep it up. I have ordered a few books also, The Continuum Concept, Unconditional Parenting, Playful Parenting and Raising a Spirited Child. Between those and your advice, we can make it through.

Thanks again...

Margie