Anyone else nervous about having an older child not in a carseat?

[Jessmcg]

My dd#1 is 7.5 and just this week is getting too tall for her booster seat. I have never had a child not in a carseat and am nevous. I know I am a dork, but just wanted to know if anyone else felt this way?

[~member~]

No. I think because I knew they were safer not in a booster seat.

[JoAida]

Yep, I'm the same way. I'm having a hard time not having them in 5-point harnesses. I'm seriously thinking of getting a Britax for my 6yo with our tax return, even though that's a big splurge for us.

[Maeve]

No. I think because I knew they were safer not in a booster seat.

Why is that? We use a high backed one for dd (who will be 8 next month). The law around here is that she has to be in one. I think you have to meet an age and weight requirement.

[mbhf]

i was a nervous wreck when i had to turn my 32 month old forward facing for a week while visiting my mother. i can't imagine what i'll feel like when i have to take them out of a carseat period!

[Leilalu]

I don't see how they are safer not in one. I agree, they have to meet a height AND weight requirement. At the rate dd is going, she'll be in one for a loooooong time:lol

[Maeve]

No kidding! My oldest (at almost 8) is no where near the weight requirement. LOL

[mama2liam]

With a petite 2 y/o, my only nightmare is of the day I have to turn him forward-facing :lol

[frowningfrog]

It is the law here that they have to be in a booster til the reach 80 lbs....my 9 yr old is far from that..and she will be 10 in a few months.

I have one with a high back as well. Id rather have her in it where the seat belt fits her correctly then not in it where the shoulder strap goes across her neck and it has to be put behind her back ..

[Sharlla]

Here they recommend a child to be in a booster until 4'9. I don't think weight should have any play in it. My MIL's neighbor girl is short (maybe 4 ft.) but weighs 95 lbs. She still needs to be in a booster.

[mama2liam]

So you're saying if I were 4 inches shorter, I'd need to sit in a booster too? :down Sorry, just had to burn myself there :lol

[Robin926]

So you're saying if I were 4 inches shorter, I'd need to sit in a booster too? :down Sorry, just had to burn myself there :lol

Wow, me too! :lol I'm only 5'1", and I never thought of it that way.

And I think I'll have a panic attack when I have to move Jacob out of a seat. Right now he's only 16 months though so we have a ton of time! :)

[Maeve]

Dh and I joke about that too. I'm height challenged. ;)

For some reason I'm thinking I'm wrong. I think dh just told me that they are changing it to include height as well? Maybe?

[the_lissa]

I'm barely over five feet and if you go by where the seatbelt lays across my body, I should be in a booster.

I was terrified when my 2 year old outgrew the height limit for rear faciung and I had to turn her forward facing.

[Sharlla]

They have cushions esp for shorter people to use in the car. My grandma is 4'11 and she uses one.

[the_lissa]

I've tried one, but then my feet don't reach the pedals.

[uccomama]

No. I think because I knew they were safer not in a booster seat.

Huh? :confused:

"Effectiveness of High Back and Backless Belt-Positioning Booster Seats in Side impact crashes"

Belt-positioning booster seats provided a 58 percent overall reduction in risk of injury to 4-to 8-year-olds in side-impact crashes as compared with seat belts alone. (These findings support prior PCPS research, which shows booster seats to be 59 percent effective in reducing injury risk to 4-to 8-year-olds in crashes of all impact directions.)
The risk reduction provided by booster seats in side-impact crashes varied by booster seat type: 4-to 8-year-olds riding in high back booster seats were at a 70 percent reduction in injury risk, while those in backless boosters did not experience a statistically significant risk reduction as compared with seat belts alone.
However, both types of booster seats provided significant protection from "seat belt syndrome" injuries to the internal abdominal organs and lumbar spine. Most of the injuries to children seated in backless booster seats were head injuries.
Possible explanations for non-significant reduction in injury risk for backless booster seats are that parents may be less likely to use to use the shoulder belt- positioner that comes with backless booster seats and that high back boosters have a contoured back that may better contain the occupant in side-impact crashes.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-09/chop-htb090905.php

[mama_b]

There are actually states where the weight requirement is 80 lbs.?!?! My state only requires children to be in a car seat until they are 4 years and 40 lbs. I cannot imagine putting a 10 year old in a car seat. Things have really changed since I was a kid, and I am only 25!

[Storm Bride]

My dd#1 is 7.5 and just this week is getting too tall for her booster seat. I have never had a child not in a carseat and am nevous. I know I am a dork, but just wanted to know if anyone else felt this way?
Not me. I'm so glad ds1 is out of carseats. Carseats are my only regret about finally having more children - I thought I was finished with the damned things forever, and here I am with years more of this. Ugh.

[Mountaingirl3]

I kept my kids rear facing until they absolutely insisted on turning around. Wouldn't we all be safer if we were rear facing (except the driver, of course :lol )?

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/StayRearFacing.aspx

[Drummer's Wife]

I don't have a child out of carseats but I did freak out when we put our 4 yr old in a belt positioning booster. It stressed me out even though she was more than 40 lbs. It was teh only way at the time to fit 3 carseats in the back of DH car. We recently bought a Apex 65 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007XIEPI/ref=pd_sbs_ba_1/002-2253276-3784822?v=glance&s=baby) carseat that can be harnessed until 65 lbs and used as a booster until 100 lbs. If you had something like this then your 7 yr old could stay in the belt positioning booster a little longer. The backrest adjusts to accomodate children up to 57 inches in height.

I can't wait to be completly carseat free but I've got atleast another 7 years :)

[Sharlla]

There are actually states where the weight requirement is 80 lbs.?!?! My state only requires children to be in a car seat until they are 4 years and 40 lbs. I cannot imagine putting a 10 year old in a car seat. Things have really changed since I was a kid, and I am only 25!

Looks like my son will :lol He's 7.5 and about 46 lbs and 3'11. If he's not sitting on a booster the seatbelt goes across his neck rather than across his chest.

[the_lissa]

Here, kids have to be in a booster until 8 years old or 80 lbs.

[4evermom]

I suspect MamaintheBoonies means that if the OP's child is too tall for her carseat, she is safer not in one. Not that proper fitting booster seats aren't safe, but improper fitting ones can be dangerous.

[Jwebbal]

Bottom line, kids are NOT safer out of car seats, five point harnesses are safer and yes, even shorter adults would be better off if they had some device to insure the seat belt hit them at the right place. My kid is 26 months and still rear facing (he has three more pounds till he gets turned), will be in a five point harnessed car seat after that until 8 AND 80 lbs. CPS people will tell you they would like to see laws changed to make it that, even though here in our state its only 6 OR 60 lbs we are sticking with the car seats until absolutely necessary to get out of one. They are much safer than just a regular seat belt.

Things have really changed for the better, better for children's safety, now if only the laws were the same in all states, so all children could be safer.

[hsingmamato3]

Here the law is they have to be in a booster until either: 1) they are 8 years old 2) they are 4'9" or 3) they are 80 lbs.

My youngest will be 8 in May but she'll stay in a booster until she outgrows it either with weight or height. I just feel safer with her in it.

[Jish]

Just curious why the OP doesn't put her child in a backless booster?

[thepeach80]

Backless boosters should only be used w/ headrests and they offer no side impact protection at all. I would probably never use one for my kids, but I also plan on keeping them harnessed as long I can as well. I have a 32mos old and a 14mos old and both are still rfing!

[Jish]

Yeah, I know, but most cars today have adjustable headrests and a backless booster is much safer than having a child in just a seatbelt which may not fit right and also doesn't offer any side protection. My oldest ds will be 8 in a few months and is about 4'5" tall. He's too tall for his old booster but too short (and frankly, too thin) to be in just a seatbelt. He will be in his backless booster until he hits 80lbs and passes 4'9". It will be a "both" thing, not "either/or." More protection is always better than less, which is why I inquired about the backless booster as it would provide more protection than a seatbelt alone.

[cam&kat's_mom]

IN VT the law is until they reach their 8th birthday. Weight adn heoght are not taken into account. We have a very tall 3 year old and are having issues finding a 5pt harnes that he will fit into due to the upper height limit. Weight wise he is much safer in a 5poet than a booster btu height he woudl be safer in a highback booster. 9As he does meet teh minimum weight for some.

[Storm Bride]

Things have really changed for the better, better for children's safety, now if only the laws were the same in all states, so all children could be safer.
At least, those children whose parents follow the law. How many times have you seen stats about how many carseats are used incorrectly? They're too complicated.

I'm just glad I grew up before carseats. I can't imagine all my memories of those childhood rides being memories of being stuck in a five-point harness (not that safe, btw - my dd can undo a 5-point anytime she wants to).

[lasciate]

At least, those children whose parents follow the law. How many times have you seen stats about how many carseats are used incorrectly? They're too complicated.

http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20030326sam0326p1.asp

"The researchers discovered that instruction manuals for car seats are generally written at a 10th-grade reading level. Unfortunately, at least 25 percent of American adults read at or below a fifth-grade level, and nearly another quarter read at about an eighth-grade level."


I'm just glad I grew up before carseats. I can't imagine all my memories of those childhood rides being memories of being stuck in a five-point harness

Be glad you are one of those who got to grow up. If you had ever been in a serious accident you'd likely be dead.


(not that safe, btw - my dd can undo a 5-point anytime she wants to).

You can undo your seatbelt anytime you like, does that make it less safe? Or do you know enough to keep it on while the car is moving? It's not a hard thing to teach a child.

[Storm Bride]

Deleted post - overly hostile and serves no purpose here. Suffice it to say that I am not a fan of carseats.

[TinkerBelle]

Florida Law: (in case anyone wants to know)

All children 5 years of age or younger must be properly restrained no matter where they are sitting in the vehicle. Children through age 3 must be secured in a separate carrier or a vehicle manufacturer's integrated child safety seat. For children aged 4 through 5 years, a separate carrier, an integrated child safety seat, or a safety belt may be used. (FL Statute 316.613).


My boys are 7 and 8, and both are very tall for their age and big. (not fat, just big) They both are in regular seatbelts and this seems to work better than a booster seat.

[TinkerBelle]

http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20030326sam0326p1.asp

"The researchers discovered that instruction manuals for car seats are generally written at a 10th-grade reading level. Unfortunately, at least 25 percent of American adults read at or below a fifth-grade level, and nearly another quarter read at about an eighth-grade level."



Be glad you are one of those who got to grow up. If you had ever been in a serious accident you'd likely be dead.



You can undo your seatbelt anytime you like, does that make it less safe? Or do you know enough to keep it on while the car is moving? It's not a hard thing to teach a child.


No offense to Stormbride, but I have to agree with Lasciate here. My niece was nearly killed, due to a neglectful babysitter who decided my 11 mo old niece would be fine riding on her lap. They got hit head-on, less than a mile from where the baby lived~mind you, and my now-16 yr old niece is permanently brain-damaged. She spent over 2 months in hospitals and rehab centers. She had to learn how to suck, eat, walk and move again. (She had just learned to walk and started to talk) She can walk, talk and function, but mentally, she will never grow past the age of 13 (currently she is functioning like an 8 yr old in most ways, even younger in others). She has some paralysis on her left side and constant ear infections on the left side. She had to have MAJOR orthodontia, due to her jaw being broken, and them not knowing it for years. (don't ask~I don't know why) She will always have to be supervised. She will most likely never marry and have children. She will not be able to handle college, and most jobs, due to mental stress.

I understand that restraints are not foolproof or guaranteed. But then again, neither is anything in life. To me, it makes sense to do your utmost best to make sure your children are safe. I do not see how it will harm them mentally to be restrained in a vehicle. I do not see how it will ruin their childhood memories to know Mama did her best to keep them safe. My kids are in seatbelts and the baby in a carseat and we have fun in the car anyway.

[Storm Bride]

Carseats might be safer, but I still hate legislation about this kind of thing. And...two days ago, I saw a mom, with two kids in carseats, run a red light and turn across three lanes of traffic, which had already started moving. I don't think she even realized it, as she seemed totally engrossed in her cellphone call. My kids are safer than hers, even if I didn't put them in their seats, which I do, because I'm less likely to get into an accident in the first place. (Yes - I know accidents can happen to anybody, but paying attention to the road is a pretty basic preventative measure.)

Oh, well - you guys don't need to worry about my kids. I use those damned seats every time I'm in the car. It's not like I have to agree that they have any value, as long as I buy them and use them, right?

[maya44]

There are actually states where the weight requirement is 80 lbs.?!?! My state only requires children to be in a car seat until they are 4 years and 40 lbs. I cannot imagine putting a 10 year old in a car seat. Things have really changed since I was a kid, and I am only 25!


Mine are in car seats til they are 10. The cheap little "no back" ones work perfectly well at ages 7-10. You can't be "too tall" unless you are over 4 feet 11 or so, and then you don't need one obviously.

Only a small percentage of kids this age can be "too tall" for a no back booster.

[Jwebbal]

Car seats are safer, no question about that. Try talking to my partner who works in an ER about which kids in accidents die, the restrained ones versus the unrestrained ones. You may be a safer driver than the woman on the cellphone, but what if SHE hits you? Whose kids will be safer then, if they aren't in car seats (though I realize you said they are). Seriously, you hear the story of the cops having to search for more than an hour by the side of a road for an unrestrained baby who was ejected in an accident and then try to have an attitude about car seat safety. AN HOUR! For a dead baby.

[trini]

I'm just glad I grew up before carseats. I can't imagine all my memories of those childhood rides being memories of being stuck in a five-point harness.

While I'm actually glad that my ds is growing up in an era with carseats, your comment brought back a fond childhood memory. My mom got a Chevette hatchback and we thought it was the greatest thing. My brother and I would fold the backseat down, lay down in the back, and "log roll" from side to side as my mom drove around curves and corners! Oh yes, and then there was that time she gave a ride to a few extra kids and there wasn't room for everyone to sit, so we left the hatch open and sat in the back with our feet hanging over the bumper.

Okay, I'm about to go hug the Britax Boulevard.

[mamawanabe]

I'm moving to a place where we can use public transportaion/walk many places because, even with the best carseats used properly, cars are dangerous and unsafe. My best friend was paralysed by a car accident. My niece suffers cronic pain from a car accident.

Every single time we put our kids (or ourselves) in a car, we are putting them in an unsafe situation. We can and should do what we can to ameliorate this (car seats ect), but that doesn't make cars safe for anyone.

One of the reasons airlines won't require car seats and separate tickets for kids under two is that if they do so, more parents would have to drive because of the finacial cost of flying and then more kids/babies would die as a result since travel by car is so much more likely to result in accident injury/fatality than air travel.

[Jessmcg]

(I am OP)

Sorry, I truely did not mean to start a debate on using carseats.

I think carseats are a good thing and have saved many lives. We live over an hour from any town and drive between 100 and 1000 miles/week, depending on what we have to do. There is NO public transportation. I will look into a backless booster, I had not thought about that. My two little ones are in Britax Boulevards, that I plan to use for many years. My oldest has no problem sitting in the booster or buckling it up, she is just almost to tall for it, and as I understand it, it is unsafe to use if she is too tall.

Just FYI, the law in WA state says

Children under the age of 16 years must be restrained in a vehicle according to the following steps:

. 1 year of age or under or weighing less than 20 pounds:
a rear facing infant seat

. Between 1 - 4 years old or 20 - 40 pounds:
a forward facing child safety seat

. Between 4 - 6 years old or 40 - 60 pounds:
a booster seat with a lap and shoulder belt

. 6 years old or 60 pounds and greater:
a seatbelt or a booster seat with a lap and shoulder belt

NOTE: Doctors and safety experts recommend that children ride in booster seats until the lap and shoulder belt fit right, usually when they are at least 4'9" tall, or around 8 years old or 80 pounds.

However, takes effect June 1, 2007.

Policy effect: The child restraint system requirements for children traveling in motor vehicles are revised. Children less than eight years old must be restrained in child restraint systems, unless the child is four feet nine inches or taller. A child who is eight years old or older, or four feet nine inches or taller, must be properly restrained either with the motor vehicle's safety belt or an appropriately fitting child restraint system. Children under thirteen years old must be transported in rear seats where it is practical to do so.

From (http://depts.washington.edu/booster/anton_skeen_bill.html)

[Jish]

You can pick up a backless booster for as little as $15.00 If you still want a little side protection, look into the Graco Turbo Booster. You can adjust the back to make it taller or shorter depending on your child's need. My almost 8 year old can still use it because I can raise the headrest so high. You can also take the back part off and use it as just a platform booster.

[Storm Bride]

I'm moving to a place where we can use public transportaion/walk many places because, even with the best carseats used properly, cars are dangerous and unsafe.
I only used public transportation and my feet until last summer. I never learned how to drive, and couldn't afford a car, anyway Public transportation isn't all that safe, either. We had a kid in high school killed while riding in a bus...and nobody is in a car seat on a bus.

Jwebbal: I have no attitude about people putting their children in carseats. I despise seat belt legislation, helmet legislation and carseat legislation. Maybe more time and energy should be spent on busting people who change lanes at 20 mph over the speed limit (without signalling), run red lights and stop signs, and weave in and out of traffic at high speed - instead of fining parents for not having carseats. Not having your children in a carseat or wearing your own seat belt brings down all kinds of censure...but people who drive like maniacs are ignored.

[mommy2cias]

Hi. I had to pipe in here.. I am not looking forward to my son not being in a car seat. I have seen the awful crash test footage and the aftermaths of crashes. Never, in a million years, for all the money in the world, would I NOT put my son in a properly used car seat. Sadly, most people don't even use them properly(and many don't even care.. How sad that they'd put their kids' lives in danger like that)..

MVC's are the #1 killer of children under the age of 14. Did you know that? Not household accidents, or anything else.

As for determining when to move out of a booster, there is a 5-step to follow. http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm

The 5-Step Test.

1. Does the child sit all the way back against the auto seat?
2. Do the child's knees bend comfortably at the edge of the auto seat?
3. Does the belt cross the shoulder between the neck and arm?
4. Is the lap belt as low as possible, touching the thighs?
5. Can the child stay seated like this for the whole trip?

If you answered "no" to any of these questions, your child needs a booster seat to make both the shoulder belt and the lap belt fit right for the best crash protection. Your child will be more comfortable, too!

[maya44]

(I am OP) I will look into a backless booster, I had not thought about that.



I think will really solve your entire problem.

Your child was NOT too tall for a booster. She was just too tall for
the one you happened to have her in.

A backless booster will give her several more years in a booster. Moreover they are lightweight, easy to move around and actually are way MORE comfortable for most kids.

[mamawanabe]

Never, in a million years, for all the money in the world, would I NOT put my son in a properly used car seat. Sadly, most people don't even use them properly(and many don't even care.. How sad that they'd put their kids' lives in danger like that)..

MVC's are the #1 killer of children under the age of 14. Did you know that? Not household accidents, or anything else.


Your kid can be badly injured or killed in a car seat. Just like you can be badly injured and killed while wearing a seat belt. Cars are dangerous. Yes, we should do everything we can to lesson the dangers (and I would never not use a the best properly installed car seat I could find), but we are putting our kids in danger every single time we put them in the car. They have a greater chance of dying in that car (even in a car good properly installed seat) than any other way.

I don't know why I am making this point. In part because it is something I am thinking about alot - the impossibility of keeping our kids safe in a country that is so reliant on the car. Every time we drive to the store instead of walk (we live in walking distance though walking is definately inconvenient) we are making a choice that puts us at greater risk. Driving because walking is inconvenient is much like not properly installing the car seat because it is inconvenient.

[mamawanabe]

Public transportation isn't all that safe, either. nobody is in a car seat on a bus.


I'd think, giving size of vehicle, a child not in car seat would be safer on a bus than in a car seat in a car. Don't know if anyone has looked at this statistically?

I'm thinking poublic transportation or walking anytime we can in the way to go if we care about safety.

[Leilalu]

I think anyone below a certain height/weight requirement in safer with some kind of device to help strap them in properly! It's not a matter of age, state, preference, etc.....it's a matter of collision impact on a persons body! I don't know about California law, I need to look into it- but my children will be in those seats as long as possible!

[lasciate]

Buses use a system called 'compartmentalization' - so assuming you are sitting properly on a bus seat, you are perfectly safe. And since buses statistically get in much fewer accidents than cars, you are actually safer on the bus.

[Storm Bride]

Sitting properly on a bus seat? That was rarely the case for me when I was riding buses. I've ridden buses with my then-2-year-old in my arms, while I stood up. We weren't even safe stopping at a red light, let alone if there'd been an accident. (No - nobody offered us a seat. That was unusual, though - there was usually somebody who would offer a seat.) I do suspect buses are generally safer than cars, though.

mamawanabe: There is no safe approach. The closest ds1 ever came to getting killed was when we were crossing the street together, at a crosswalk, and a guy came up the street parallel to us, doing well over the speed limit, and turned into the lane we were in without checking the crosswalk. He cleared me and ds1 by less than 6 inches - the second time I've nearly been killed in a crosswalk, and I've never been in an accident as a passenger/driver in a car. Walking isn't even safe!