Can we please talk about college funds?

[graciesma]

My parents didnt have one for me. I have had to pay for EVERYTHING my self. They arent saving for my younger sisters either. What I am wondering is this: Are you saving for your kiddos did your parents save one for you? If your kids decide they arent going to college would you give it to them as starting out money? If not what would you do with it? That being said I am saving for my dd and not quite sure what I would do! Please share I am very interested in what all the wise parents here are doing!

[the_lissa]

Our parents did not save for us, and we have already started an RESP. If our children do not go to college, we plan on letting them use the money to start their business or buy a house or something. We can't really say now because it depends on the kid and their proclivities.

[*Lisa*]

We're saving for DD, and we plan to pay for her entire education. My parents paid for my college education (everything except a minimal contribution from my summer jobs paychecks). DH ended up taking out lots of loans that his parents were supposed to pay off--but they didn't. We ended up paying $20,000+ off from his loans, and it was not fun. I'm hoping that DD can have a better start, especially as college continues to get more and more expensive.

If she chooses not to go to college, I don't know what we would do. We may give her a little bit of the money, but keep the rest in savings in case she changes her mind. At some point, we'd probably take a REALLY nice vacation with the money if it looks like she's never going to college :lol .

[ETW]

My parents paid for college for me and my sister. They didn't have a savings fund expressly for that purpose -- they just paid for it however they could. We are saving for DS in a 529 savings program because of the tax benefits. We are putting in $200 per month -- more is recommended but that's the amount that works with our budget right now. Hopefully we will be able to increase the amount in the future. We also have the Upromise credit card so that we get 1% of all our purchances direct deposited to the 529. We consider it our responsibility to pay for his education so even if we don't have enough saved by the time he starts college we will find a way to pay for it.

If DS didn't go to college the money in the 529 could be transferred to another family member for college expenses without penalty so we would do that. We would absolutely help him out with a downpayment for a home or startup money for a business but it would come from a different source because we wouldn't want to pay the penalty on using the 529 money for non-education expenses.

[Godiva]

My dad saved quite a large college fund for both me and my sister. Neither one of us have completed college. I used mine to support my sudden and unexpected family. (pregnancy was a suprise and I married the father) I am sooo grateful to my father for saving for us. Without it, I would have probably still been living in a bad neighborhood in chicago while trying to keep my dd safe. But because we have it, we are moving to the country and buying land and building a house without having a mortgage. I didn't use it for college, but I'm in a much better place now than I would be if I had used it for college. I definatly think saving for your child's future (wether that be college or not) is one of the most important things you can do. Oh and you don't have to be rich to do it, my dad saved while he was working for minimum wage and supporting a family of 4.

[rgarlough]

My parents helped me out with my first 2 years but I was responsible for the rest of my education. I thought it was generous of them and I did not expect them to help me out at all. I was thankful for their help but I was also thankful that they allowed me to 'struggle' a little too. Made me work harder for my education knowing that I was responsible for paying it, kwim?

That said, with the ever increasing costs of a higher education, I have been contributing a tiny amount every month to Mason's 529 plan. Granted its just $25/month but its a start!

Dh doesn't plan on paying for his 2 kids higher education costs mainly because he's already forking over $600+ per month for child support and cannot afford to save any more for their college futures.

[PrettyBird]

This really interests me because I would like to start an account for our baby due in July. I do think our children should have to contribute some to their education as well in the form of applying for scholarships, working, and possibly taking out some loans, but not an excessive amount. Of course this depends on the cost of the education they want. If they go to an expensive private school, they will obviously have to take out some loans because I doubt we will be able to save up enough to foot the bill for that. I had to do all of these things and I think it helped me appreciate my education. I am not sure what type of account to start though. I got a pamphlet from Vanguard that I am reading right now.

[Irishmommy]

I didn't go to college (university) because of lack of funds. We put money into an RESP each month for each child. If child one doesn't go to third level, then the money goes to child two for hers. If neither go, it comes back to us. That's how it is set up, I never thought about letting them use it for something else (though dd1 has lol).

[GranoLLLy-girl]

We have 529 plans for both of our kids. Education is very important in my family. I have an MBA and a PhD. I paid for my MBA, but my PhD was paid for by the institution.
That said, my undergrad degree was not paid for and I worked three jobs in the summer every summer to pay for it. However, I went to a state university in the early 1980s--so tuition was cheap. About $900 a semester. So I managed. I waitressed at night, worked in a daycare in the day and bartended on weekend.
I do have college debt that I am still paying from my MBA...my dh does not have any school loan debt.
That said, we plan to pay for the kids' undergraduate degrees and part of their graduate degrees, if this is something that they pursue, but we will also be hitting our retirement as they go off to college, so we have to be reasonable as far as how much of their grad degrees we pay for.
I agree that 529 plans are the best way to go. We set ours up before they were born and started depositing money the month they were each born. In this day and age, especially when my kids hit 18, I cannot imagine that they will opt out of a college education and be able to survive in the future economy.

[wednesday]

No, we are not saving for college. We will be lucky if our own student loans are paid off by the time our children are college-age. Putting aside money for our son is not in the budget right now but even if we did have extra $$ we would be prioritizing our retirement savings. DH is 44 and has essentially zero retirement assets outside of our house and SS :eyesroll. I am 32 and have a little bit accumulated through employer plans but nowhere near what it needs to be. My MIL really summed it up--she said "Your child can get loans to go to school, but nobody's going to loan you money to pay for your retirement." Furthermore, the way financial aid awards work (for now, anyway) is that parents' retirement assets are not considered when they look at a student's "need."

All that said...we will help our kids go to college however we can. DH's parents never saved money for college but by the time their kids were college-age their income was high enough that they just wrote the checks. For private university and then grad school for all three! So, we kind of just have our fingers crossed that we'll be able to do that when the time comes.

[beccaboo]

My parents paid for most of my undergraduate degree (at a state school - if it had been private I would have wound up with more loans), both with loans they took out and savings. I paid for my master's. I haven't started college savings plans for my kids. Wish I could, but we just don't have the funds - we're still paying off our own advanced degrees! We'll help our kids as much as we can in any way we can (financial and otherwise), both with school and other life things, but we're just not in a position to sock much cash away just yet.

[myhoneyswife]

I'm sort of the odd one out, I guess. My parents saved for college for us, but it because a huge guilt and control issue, so I settled with living at their house and paying my own way (working 20 hours and getting non-need-based scholarships, didn't qualify for need-based). Then I went to a tech school when I got married and took out a loan of rthat so that I could get an at-home job more quickly.

We'll not be paying for college, but if they're truly going to college and not farting around, they're welcome to keep living at home. I'd seen too many people my age waste all their parents money by cutting class, getting drunk instead of studying, etc to set my kids up for that. I feel they'd appreciate it more if they were in charge of their own payment. I appreciated the money spent on books, classes, etc because I did it myself, and I worked my butt off to get a good GPA so that I could qualify for that kind of financial aid.

I also paid for my own car, but I wouldn't be opposed to buying my kids their first car.

Cara

[lisac77]

My DH and I are at such odds on this issue! He intends to pay for DS's (and I guess any other kids if we have more), and I'm all for doing what we can when the time comes, but letting the kids bear the brunt of the financial responsibility.

My parents didn't pay for me or any of my four siblings (well, one hasn't graduated from HS yet, but she won't get paid for either...) to attend college. I lived at home and worked my butt off to pay for tuition, books, and leisure money. It was hard, it sucked at times, but I did graduate and then I was really pround of myself. I felt it was a great accomplishment and it gave me a lot of confidence and maturity that I didn't have just out of high school. I have put my education to good use and have an excellent job.

DH thinks it's a tragedy that I had to do all that and not get the degree I actually wanted (I wanted to be an electrical engineer, but the school I went to didn't offer that degree). I see it as taking the lemons life hands you and making lemonade. DH does not understand 529 plans, and instead puts DS's "college money" in a UTMA account. I don't like this, because the second DS turns 18 he can withdraw all that money and spend it on a flashy car.

We haven't come to a resolution yet.

[bobandjess99]

DH and i don't believe in paying for kids educations..his parents didn't..he went into the army right out of high school, which paid for his undergrad, and i **stupidly** took out HUGE loans to go to a private school, because i was young and idealistic and thought I "Deserved" a certain sort of college experience. My parents did help me some, as much as they could..they scrimped at times, but i also worked fulltime in addition to the huge loans. Stupid me.....
Anyway, we will probably help them..let them live at home, possibly help out with some money/tuition/books, but basically, we believe that responsibility for one's self begins a lot earlier than most..by 18, a kid should have had a paying job for a couple years, and should be capable of self-support, and going to college is something for them to plan for and pay for themselves.

[Godiva]

DH does not understand 529 plans, and instead puts DS's "college money" in a UTMA account. I don't like this, because the second DS turns 18 he can withdraw all that money and spend it on a flashy car.
Actually, this is not true at all. I had a UTMA account for my college fund and my dad retains control of it til I turn 21. The UTMA funds are actually very good because it is the CHILD'S money once it's in there, the parents just control it til they turn 21. (so they can't go buy a flashy car at 18) I personally think that college is a very bad investment, but that's another thread.

[annethcz]

My parents paid for 4 years of college education, DH's parents paid for about half of his college education.

We recoginize what an advantage it was for us to have our parents' support, and we'd like to do the same thing for our children. Honestly, I don't know if we'll have the financial means to pay all of the tuition for each of our children. But we have 529 accounts for each of them, and contribute to the accounts on a regular basis.

[zinemama]

I went to college via a combination of student loans, scholarships, and contributions from my parents. My parents did not save for college for me. If they had, things would have been A LOT easier, particularly since they were divorcing when I was in college and money was a big issue. Had my tuition been earmarked as college funds it would have simplified matters considerably.

We are saving for our sons college education. Whether we'll be able to foot the entire bill by the time they are ready to go is debatable, but we're saving as much as we can. We decided against a 529 since investing in a socially responsible fund was important to us, and the 529 socially responsible options are minimal. We save in a Roth IRA. Technically it's a retirement account, but you can withdraw with no penalty if the money is used for education.

If they don't want to go to college, we would keep the money and, on our retirement, give it to them then.

[srain]

We don't plan on saving until our son is closer to college-age. Several reasons why we're not stressing now:

There are a number of relatively inexpensive routes to a college education that our kids could choose.

Savings may negatively impact financial aid.

I don't expect to have young children in the home by the time my oldest is 14, so I could go to work then to raise money quickly if need be.

Loans are easily available.

I received a full scholarship, including room and board; we can hope for that to happen again.


I plan to cover their tuition expenses for four years at a state school. (I live in New York; there is a wide selection of good state schools here- if we moved before then I may feel more of an obligation to fork out for a private school.) I'd like to cover room and board as well, but we'll see where we're at in 2018.

[johub]

Neither dh nor I had our parents pay for our college and we dont plan on paying for our children's college either.
We will help in any way that is feasable at the time, such as letting them live at home rent free during college years if they go in state.
On the other hand, we live where in state college is super cheap, and anybody can afford tuition on summer job wages.

[velochic]

DH and i don't believe in paying for kids educations..his parents didn't..he went into the army right out of high school, which paid for his undergrad, and i **stupidly** took out HUGE loans to go to a private school, because i was young and idealistic and thought I "Deserved" a certain sort of college experience. My parents did help me some, as much as they could..they scrimped at times, but i also worked fulltime in addition to the huge loans. Stupid me.....
Anyway, we will probably help them..let them live at home, possibly help out with some money/tuition/books, but basically, we believe that responsibility for one's self begins a lot earlier than most..by 18, a kid should have had a paying job for a couple years, and should be capable of self-support, and going to college is something for them to plan for and pay for themselves.

We set up a 529 for dd when she was born from an inheritance dh received. Assuming the stock market doesn't go belly-up, her college education is paid for.

I have to disagree with this previous poster about not paying for your child's college education, if you can afford it. My parents couldn't and because of that, I worked full time, pulled down a 17 credit load each semester and graduated in 3 years to get the education as cheaply as possible. I didn't get the degree I wanted and I made some really poor decisions because of it, but in spite of it, I had a lucrative career.

I think there are a lot of things a parent can do to help (even sending your kid $10 during a lean week, which is about all my parents could do), but to essentially say, "Kick your ass out, you're 18 and on your own." Wow, that doesn't seem very NFL or AP to me. I mean, we do what we can. That's all you can do. It may mean a buck put into a piggy bank or everything paid for, but if you can do anything to help your kids get a leg up...

Wow, I was just surprised to see a post here that said that parenting STOPS when they go to college, or 18 years old... whichever comes first.

[the_lissa]

I was surprised too.

My family is very poor, so my mom couldn't help me, but she wishes she could have. That is her biggest regret. My partner's parents could have, but didn't, and now feel very guilty about it, and try to help us out with loan payments and contribute to dd's fund. I can't even bear to type out hwo much we are in debt. It is depressing. It is very disheartening to start your life out in such debt.

[moonshine]

There was a thread on this very topic quite a while ago, which was quite lengthy. After reading all of it, I seemed to see the consesus as most people were going to do the same as their parents did. There were a few exceptions, a few more on the side of saving because their parents expressly did not, than those who were not going to save even though their parents did, but generally most people's arguement was my parents did this, which worked out for me for this or that reason, so I am doing the same.

Same is true for me and DH. Our parents paid for our college, we are hoping to do the same for our kids. Course, I did not get to pick my first choice (private) because of $$, but they did pay for my second choice (state school).

[moonshine]

I can't even bear to type out hwo much we are in debt. It is depressing. It is very disheartening to start your life out in such debt.

We are dealing with this too, but not because of school loans. We are so in over our heads now, if we didn't have parents helping us out, well, I don't quite know what we would do.

[johub]

Wow, I was just surprised to see a post here that said that parenting STOPS when they go to college, or 18 years old... whichever comes first.

Come on now, the PP you quoted didnt say that at all! She said that her dc's could live with them and they would help them out as much as they could. But that the child was primarily responsible.

[merpk]

My parents paid for my college education, and I ended up wasting it entirely. DH had to pay for his by himself and ended up with a PhD at a very young age.

Okay, so my personal choices were crappy, but still ...

DH believes strongly that paying for his own education is what made it go so smoothly and so well and, well, so quickly. Who am I to argue with success? :lol



Point is, it's not that parenting stops. It's that saving/spending money isn't necessarily parenting.

[jkpmomtoboys]

We started saving for both of our kids when they were born. We plan to pay for whatever schooling they will have. Our parents did it for us and our responsibility is to do it for our kids. We do not want them to have to work while in college. You miss out on too much of the college experience when you have to work. And no, I'm not talking about drinking; I'm talking about all the extra-curriculars and the great experiences that you miss when you have to work.

[velochic]

Come on now, the PP you quoted didnt say that at all! She said that her dc's could live with them and they would help them out as much as they could. But that the child was primarily responsible.


No, she said, "we believe that responsibility for one's self begins a lot earlier than most..by 18, a kid should have had a paying job for a couple years, and should be capable of self-support, and going to college is something for them to plan for and pay for themselves."

"A job for a couple of years already?" That means they are working and going to high school. I did this. It was incredibly hard. As a matter of fact, in order to work my senior year, I had to give up playing softball and ended up losing a great college scholarship to play softball.

"Going to college is for them to plan and pay themselves?" It's a rare kid these days that at 16 or 17 years old is going to make wise LIFE LONG decisions while going to school, trying to work and figure out what to do with their life. IMHO, at this stage in life, helping a child go on to college (or if they so choose, trade school, or some other path that may not lead them to college) is one of our PRIMARY responsibilities. If you can somehow help, why not??? It's like saying, "I didn't get the help, and I don't want you to get anything better than me." Life gets more competitive with each generation. For me and for her, I want to give my child EVERY ADVANTAGE I can. Yeah, we may not be able to spend our golden years backpacking around Europe, but if our daughter can start out in life without a mountain of debt, maybe she'll get to. Anyway, I just don't see why a parent would not help if they CAN. It almost seems spiteful.

[velochic]

My parents paid for my college education, and I ended up wasting it entirely. DH had to pay for his by himself and ended up with a PhD at a very young age.

Okay, so my personal choices were crappy, but still ...

DH believes strongly that paying for his own education is what made it go so smoothly and so well and, well, so quickly. Who am I to argue with success? :lol



Point is, it's not that parenting stops. It's that saving/spending money isn't necessarily parenting.

And perhaps my opinion differs because we were the EXACT OPPOSITE of you. I worked my way through college. I ended up with a degree I never used. I just tried to get out of school as fast as possible because I was paying for it. Paying for it myself RUINED my education.

Dh had school paid for him. He is from the Middle East and M.I.T. recruited him. His uncle paid for his education so he could come to the US. He got his Ph.D at a young age as well. Now he is a citizen and university professor. If someone hadn't helped him out, he'd probably still be a cobbler's son back in Turkey.

I'm saying if you CAN help, why not? It doesn't make sense.

[kewb]

We are saving for college. My parents paid for my sister and I to go to college-in my sisters case law school, too. I have every intention of doing this for my children. I only hope we are in a position to do so when the time comes.

If they don't go to college, I don't know. Not going is not really an option. For any type of business career today a college degree is not good enough now, eveyone wants an MBA.

[psyche]

My mother paid for almost all of my college education (at a state school in a state with pretty cheap state-school prices). Well, that sounds nice but in reality sometime during the second semester of my junior year she told me she wasn't going to be paying any more of the school fees that she had been paying each semester in installments. So I ended up putting the rest of that semester on a credit card because I had no other choice by the time she made that decision. I did have a student loan for school fees the following year (though my mother did help pay my rent throughout the duration of my college career). It's been over ten years and I'm still angry when I think about how she "dropped" me like that (she's very irresponsible & refused to believe that I couldn't magically get school loans six weeks into a semester). *breathe*

My husband's parents paid for his undergrad years, though he did have a scholarship that paid maybe a third of his school fees. For grad school he was on his own (more or less) but it helped that he worked in the same lab and went to the same school. If he'd had some random off-campus job during his undergrad years, he probably wouldn't have made as good an impression with his later-advisor/lab-boss.

Paying for our kids' college education is something that I want to do. But even if I didn't, it is non-negotiable for my husband (barring extreme emergencies). In his culture-of-origin (Chinese), education is very important & parents do whatever they can for their children's education. We have informal savings right now (as we've been lazily discussing different plans over the last couple of years) but we'll probably buy into a state program that would have us pay a lump sum that is the average tuition cost of state schools for four years today & that will cover any state-school tuition (or give us somewhat equivalent value of $ for private/out of state) when the kidlets are old enough.

[puddingpop]

My parents provided free "room and board" while I paid for my education and lived at home. I worked part-time jobs during highschool to start saving for college and between that and working during the summers and the school year, I was able to cover all my expenses and still have a fair bit of money left over for "fun stuff". My parents had been pretty adamant that I pay for school myself, and I was fine with that.
However, they are currently paying my younger sister's tuition plus residence and living expenses while she's in school. I'm not sure what made them change their minds about footing the bill (their financial situation hasn't changed) but my sister has had the luxury of not working at all and taking full advantage of all that university has to offer.
DH paid for school himself (with some assistance from me because I graduated a year before him) and really feels that he appreciated his education more because he paid for it.
That said, I think we'll try to save money for each of our kids to go to college / start a business and provide whatever assistance we can.

[earthmama369]

My parents had college savings set up for us from infancy -- savings accounts, bonds, etc. -- and took out a second mortgage for my sister and I to split between us for our undergrad educations. Whatever that covered was what we had to work with, so we could choose to go to a more expensive private school and pay part of it ourselves or go to a state school and have it completely covered. (We both chose state schools.) I also won a small scholarship. For postgrad work, I won a full scholarship and small stipend, and my parents gave me an interest-free, no deadline loan for living expenses, which I'm currently paying back.

Their thinking was that they worked very hard to have good credit, so the loan they took out was on better terms than anything we'd come up with. They also had the income and resources to handle it. They most emphatically did not want either of us to start out with a lot of student loan debt, nor did they want us to be working full time when we could be focusing on our degrees. We did both have jobs, to pay for groceries, car insurance and gas, etc., but the bulk of our energy was free for education and we had the flexibility to take advantage of programs like a year's study abroad, which quite frankly changed my life and is an experience that my dh regrets not having been able to have.

His parents didn't put aside anything for their children's college education. So far dh has been the only one to go to college, and he didn't feel particularly encouraged by them to do so. He worked full time throughout, was exhausted more often than not (state college here is NOT that cheap), got good grades and two bachelor's, but missed out on a lot of extracurriculars and educational opportunities like internships that could have helped him careerwise later on. I have so much respect for what he accomplished, but I really don't understand why his parents didn't choose to support this wonderful man more than they did. They did give him a loan, through their home equity line, for his postgrad work, which he's been paying back with interest every month. For his undergrad degrees, we'll be paying off his student loans for the next decade, which didn't make it any easier for us to buy a house, set up savings for our own children, set up retirement savings, etc.

I hope (and plan to work very hard) to give our children the opportunity to attend college or whatever path of education (tradeschool, etc.) they choose without placing an undue burden on them. I want them to be able to start off their adult lives as free of debt as possible, because I've seen firsthand what a big difference that can make in everything from career choice, financial planning, and credit history to general stress levels. We have a 529 set up that both we and the extended family (mostly mine) contribute to and a small savings account that I'm going to roll over into a higher-interest cd for a while. After that I'll look at our options for that little nest egg. I don't know what we'll do if one or both of our children don't choose any further education after high school -- it will depend on their situations, how we feel about their ability to handle money, and their needs.

[The4OfUs]

We started a 529 for our kid(s) when our DS was born. They'll share whatever is in there, and hopefully that will be a large portion of their tuitions, etc. DH and I both believe in helping out a lot, but not totally; we want the kids to do a little bit on their own.

My parents helped me out totally (until Junior year, I got a PT job), and DH's parents didn't help him at all (couldn't afford it with 4 kids of their own and they did a lot of taking in of family members at various times - really, really good hearted people)...and we both think that "all or nothing" isn't a good approach. We don't want the kids to have to work full time to afford it, but something like getting a PT job on campus, even if it's just to cover books and spending money (my parents even gave me spending money :bag: ) will do a lot for them to take it more seriously than I did the first two years, but not make it such a hardship that they can't enjoy themselves (like DH had - he was only able to afford 2 years on his own).

I haven't even thought about them not going to college....DH says, "they WILL go to college" :rolleyes because he has a lot of regrets about not ever getting a 4-year degree; and while I understand his point, I find it hard to believe that he's going to try to "force" one of our kids to go to college if it isn't what they want (his bark is a lot worse than his bite :wink ). We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, it's to hard to imagine what our kids will be into or what path they will take, but I would imagine it will involve some sort of training or school that the 529 will be good for.

We'll be willing to support them in whatever endeavors they decide on, but I don't think we'll do it without them having to put in some work, too; DH also has a lot of resentment about sometimes his parents being too good hearted and a couple of his siblings taking advantage of them. So, like for a first car, we'd front maybe half of it, and split the insurance with them....but no completely free rides. :)

[tarahsolazy]

We will save in a 529 plan for our DS and any others, and probably pay for the majority of their undergrad educations. I went to undergrad cheap, (so did DH, that's where we met), but I took out about $120K to pay for medical school. My parents paid my rent for a few years in college, which was very helpful, and was what they could afford. There was no way my white-collar parents could pay for med school, nor should they. By that time I was 22 and felt like grad school was completely my responsibility. My education has been a great investment, I have a career I love, that helps the community and pays a living wage.

[graciesma]

I was glad to see all the replies it really helps put things into perspective. The thing is I moved out when I was 16 and have never asked my parents for anything! They never really had any money and are in debt themselves. I dont resent them but I do wonder why they had kids if they couldnt afford them and essentially sent us on our way at the magical age of 18. This is deeper than a college fund for me but it comes down to I feel like it wasnt important enough for them to plan for my future. I dont want my daughter to graduate and have to pay for everything herself. The free room and board idea for myself would be a cop out. I wouldnt want to live with them and I dont feel like that is sufficient. That being said my daughter has enough to pay for her first year. Shes 6 months old The way I was "shafted" motivates me beyond everything. I dont know if I can spin this thread but is it a bad idea to have kids with no money in the bank and not much of an oppurtunity to put any in there. I didnt commit to having kids until we 5 digits in the bank. I know money isnt everything but it can undoubtetdly provide otherwise unnatainable goals. One more question do you think its ok to expect you kids to take out thousands of dollars worth of loans at the fresh age of 18 and spend several years paying it off. If I pay for her education then she can save those loan payments to put a very hefty down payment on something she should be respnsible for a home. I started saving at age 18 I want her to be able to do the same if she chooses.

[The4OfUs]

I dont know if I can spin this thread but is it a bad idea to have kids with no money in the bank and not much of an oppurtunity to put any in there. I didnt commit to having kids until we 5 digits in the bank.
I can't say I think it's a bad idea, because different people have different visions of how to live their lives. For some people, college, etc. just don't even register on the radar, so why would they wait to have all that money? Then there are others who want to be able to provide only the best of everything (and I mean everything) for their kids.....still others who want their kids to be comfortable but know "want" from "need". FWIW, we had about $1000 to our name when I found I was pregnant with DS...but still, we've managed to get a good chunk of change in both our retirements funds and in the 529, and he's only 2...if we would ahve waited, who knows how long it would have been, or if we would even have DS - DH and I have a bad habit of spending what we have, and it's only since DS came along that we changed our tune.

There's another thread somewhere else that's about "affording" kids, which had some interestign responses; I'll see if I can dig it up and link it in a few minutes...

ETA: Found it: Thread (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=406461)


One more question do you think its ok to expect you kids to take out thousands of dollars worth of loans at the fresh age of 18 and spend several years paying it off.
I don't think it's OK to expect it - I also don't think it's OK for a parent to force a kid into any major life/career decisions without helping out. I think that if I didn't have a college fund for a child, and they really wanted to go to college, I would do everything in my power, financially, looking into scholarships, helping with their schooling and extracurriculars, alternative schools, etc. to make it happen for them. I would be a partner with them, not just kick them to the curb. I think there's a BIG difference between parents who don't have enough money and just kick their kid on the sidewalk and tell them they are on their own, and parents who don't have enough money but will do as much as they can to help out...big difference.

[EFmom]

We have 529s for the kids. We plan to save enough to send them to 4 year state colleges/universities. My folks sent all six of their children to moderately priced private colleges or state universities. Dh's sent all five to very expensive private schools and three of them to med school/grad school.

It was the best gift my parents could have given me. I will be eternally grateful, as are all my siblings. None of us wasted our time or goofed off.

I don't want my kids to have to work during the school year or to take out loans. I work at a state university, and I see far too many frazzled kids who are working 40+ hours/week and/or coming out up to their eyeballs in debt.

[graciesma]

I am thinking I may have sounded a bit snooty but what I was trying to say is this: I didnt set out a rule to have $ in the bank but I looked at where I came from and all my life money has been an issue in one way or another. The reason I commited to making sure we had money saved was because I know how I grew up and I dont want that for my dd. If we ran out of milk before payday we stayed out of milk. Also I looked around at what I was spending money on and kind of thought about how much I could save before the birth of a child and commited myself to show myself I really can buckle down and the money I am able to save can be put to really good use.
I really remember what it was like to be poor and it gave me motivation to makell the sure my dd never runs out of milk. That being said I dont think its irresponsibly to not have a savings when having kids I just wanted to know what others felt about it. Thanks for all the input!

[johub]

No, she said, "we believe that responsibility for one's self begins a lot earlier than most..by 18, a kid should have had a paying job for a couple years, and should be capable of self-support, and going to college is something for them to plan for and pay for themselves."

"A job for a couple of years already?" That means they are working and going to high school. I did this. It was incredibly hard. As a matter of fact, in order to work my senior year, I had to give up playing softball and ended up losing a great college scholarship to play softball.

"Going to college is for them to plan and pay themselves?" It's a rare kid these days that at 16 or 17 years old is going to make wise LIFE LONG decisions while going to school, trying to work and figure out what to do with their life. IMHO, at this stage in life, helping a child go on to college (or if they so choose, trade school, or some other path that may not lead them to college) is one of our PRIMARY responsibilities. If you can somehow help, why not??? It's like saying, "I didn't get the help, and I don't want you to get anything better than me." Life gets more competitive with each generation. For me and for her, I want to give my child EVERY ADVANTAGE I can. Yeah, we may not be able to spend our golden years backpacking around Europe, but if our daughter can start out in life without a mountain of debt, maybe she'll get to. Anyway, I just don't see why a parent would not help if they CAN. It almost seems spiteful.


Who says they can afford it? And who defines how much help is enough?
I think it IS helping to allow a child to live with you rent free during college and helping out with money.

We will just have to agree to disagree with what our job is as parents and what are and are not our primary responsibilities.

[velochic]

Who says they can afford it? And who defines how much help is enough?
I think it IS helping to allow a child to live with you rent free during college and helping out with money.

We will just have to agree to disagree with what our job is as parents and what are and are not our primary responsibilities.

Well, I'm certainly happy to agree to disagree.

But what I was saying is that IF a parent can help and DOESN'T because they think it will "build character" (my words, not a previous poster), I totally disagree with that. It's my opinion and I'll stand by it, but if someone can put back $5 a month to help their child through college or $500 a month, or is just able to give a couple of bucks for gas - whatever you can give is a help. I'm not even attempting to QUALIFY what level of help is actual help. If I'm capable of putting my child through college financially and I don't because they need to... "buck up"; "learn that that there are no hand-outs in life"; "rely only on themselves"... it doesn't seem very AP to me. That was the tone I heard in the previous post I mentioned. I mean, being able to SUPPORT yourself at 18????? What is that about? And paying for LIFE and COLLEGE at the same time?? What about being able to THRIVE at 22 because you had parents who helped when you were 18? I'm not saying every parent can do this. Mine weren't able to. It doesn't make them any less of a parent or any less loving. But if you CAN and you DON'T - I just don't see any normal reason for it.

[PrettyBird]

I think what some parents don't realize when they won't contribute anything is that their income affects the amount of financial aid a child gets. That happened to my highschool boyfriend. His mom got remarried his freshman year and he lost all of his financial aid. But they still wouldn't contribute a dime to his education even though they happily took a deduction for him at tax time. :irked: He tried to become independent, but was unable to at the time.

[BookGoddess]

We have a 529 plan for DD. We started it soon after she was born. Her grandparents gave us a generous monetary gift and we used that as the initial contribution. Now, each month we have a specific amount deducted from our checking account.

DH is adamant we help pay for DD's college education. His parents were no help at all when he wanted to go to college. His father told him to get a good job with a union and he would be set for life because "the union will take care of you." :o DH had to pay his way through college. He worked on-campus, he got some financial aid, and partial scholarships but it was hard for him. I know what it was like because we're college sweethearts. To make it worse, his father would make comments like "Why are you taking art (it was a core requirement)? Who needs art anyway? You're just going to be a permanent student. My son..the permanent student. Great!" There was zero support for DH financially and emotionally. We don't want DD to be in that situation. BTW: we're still paying off one of DH's student loans.

On the other hand, my parents paid 100% of my college and grad school tuition and the cost of books. I never goofed or wasted my time. I knew how lucky I was. I was very blessed to have two great parents who valued education and who wanted me to focus on my studies without the added burden of worrying about how I was going to pay for those studies. They are both educators and come from a line of educators. It was always understood that I would go to college. There wasn't even a choice. :lol Not that I would have refused to go to college but it was just something that I knew from a young age that I would do. The PP who said that life today is much more competitive and she wants to give her child as much as she can to help her get a head start in life sums up my feelings. A college degree can open up so many doors. Sure there are many who succeed with a high school diploma but do I want DD to take that chance? No. I do so many other things to help my child get ahead in life that contributing to a college fund and encouraging her (not pushing her but encouraging) to get a college degree is just another thing that I think is right for me to do.

[Belleweather]

I think what some parents don't realize when they won't contribute anything is that their income affects the amount of financial aid a child gets. That happened to my highschool boyfriend. His mom got remarried his freshman year and he lost all of his financial aid. But they still wouldn't contribute a dime to his education even though they happily took a deduction for him at tax time. :irked: He tried to become independent, but was unable to at the time.

Freebird, thank you SO much for bringing that up! This is the one thing that just makes me LIVID every time I hear people say they're not going to help their chlidren with college because they want them to 'grow' or 'appreciate it'. That's the attitude that DH's parents had, and for that reason he spent four years sitting on his fingers and working low-wage jobs while I was in school, because he couldn't afford to go himself until he turned 23 and his parents income no longer counted against him.

For those who might not be filling out FAFSAs every year still, here's the deal: until your child is over the age of 23, the federal government requires your financial information when they're applying for student aid. They use a fancy formula to figure out the amount of money that they expect the family to contribute to the student's education. If the family decides NOT to contribute, the student can't borrow through a federal or insitutional program to make up those funds -- their only choice is either to borrow through a market program at high interest rates, assuming they can find someone willing to take them with whatever credit they have, or not to go to school.

Also food for thought is the fact that the sort of federally secured financial aid that we've all come to expect is on the chopping block in congress this session. The Pell Grant, which was federal money created to allow low-income students access to college has been scrapped, and congress is expected to cut the subsidized stafford and perkins programs entirely and raise rates on unsubsidized loans. Assuming that your kids are going to be able to borrow or get scholarships to go to school is starting to look exceedingly naive in the current climate in the US. Sad, but alas true.

[johub]

But if you CAN and you DON'T - I just don't see any normal reason for it.

Well I guess "can" is determined differently. Some might think that I could put money aside for my children's college, but it coudl cause financial hardship now for a benefit I am not certain I agree is there.
It is just as likely that my child should grow up and not want to go to college or grow up and feel like they have to go to college right out of high school because the money is there and not be ready and flunk out and waste the money.

It is my personal belief that college most benefits those with maturity and commitment. And I dont think that my paying for college is going to foster either of those things, whereas if my child had to make some effort to do it it would foster those things.
Not so they can 'buck up' or "learn that there is nothing free in life" but because I think they would get enough benefit out of having to pay a significant portion for themselves to justify not breaking my back trying to save that kind of money.
Then again, DH and I are still paying for our own student loans, when those are paid off perhaps there would be money for some type of college fund.
But because we want to and have the extra money. Not because it is our responsibility and we have to, regardless of whether we have extra money or have to scrimp together $5 a month or whatever.

[johub]

I think what some parents don't realize when they won't contribute anything is that their income affects the amount of financial aid a child gets. That happened to my highschool boyfriend. His mom got remarried his freshman year and he lost all of his financial aid. But they still wouldn't contribute a dime to his education even though they happily took a deduction for him at tax time. :irked: He tried to become independent, but was unable to at the time.

This happenned to me too. Which is why I worked a summer job full time and would have worked part time during the school year. (of other unrelated forces hadnt prevented me ) I didnt qualify for any financial aid the first time around, but I did have a non need based partial tuition waver.

[johub]

their only choice is either to borrow through a market program at high interest rates, assuming they can find someone willing to take them with whatever credit they have, or not to go to school.

Or go to a reasonably priced school and work part time. and full time in the summers.
Go to community college for the first two years.
Get married (being married/divorced makes you exempt from the 23 year old requirement for being a dependnt for financial aid)

Certainly if I lived in a different state I might reconsider how much help my children would need. BUt that is the kicker. Whether or not they will need any help to go to school depends entirely on where you live. So it is really difficult to determine motives of the parents and the child's ability to pay for school on their own without considering how much school in your state actually costs.

[Sharlla]

I didn't go to college, heck, I didn't even go to highschool. I got a GED at 16 then went to vocational training. I could have lived at job corps while going to the local community college, but the truth is, I had no reason to go to college. I had planned on being a SAHM and maybe do some caregiving. Neither requires a college education. Plus I'm not the college type either.

I don't plan on having a lot of savings for either DS's college funds. If either DS have a strong desire for college they are welcome to live with us free of charge while in school and they can also work as teenagers to save up as well. Maybe if they were actually in school and needed some extra money, we would give it to them.

[velochic]

Not so they can 'buck up' or "learn that there is nothing free in life" but because I think they would get enough benefit out of having to pay a significant portion for themselves to justify not breaking my back trying to save that kind of money.


And this is essentially where we'll have to agree to disagree. For my dd, I WOULD break my back in order to help her get a head start in life. I did not get any benefit out of paying for my education. I got to start life worrying about how to put food on my table. All the while, as a pp said, my parents were getting to take that break on their taxes for me and buying themselves new cars.

[Ellien C]

I didn't use all of my college funds that my grandparents set-up because I had a full scholarship for 4 years. I invested it after college and it will be for my retirement.

I haven't read all of the replies, here. I think having the funds mostly taught me that the idea of saving money for later (whatever that may be) was *very* important. My parents were depression-era babies so saving for "later" was very, very important to them. It isn't that I thought all of the funds would have paid for my college, (they didn't for any of the 4 of us). It was the idea that you should ALWAYS put a little something away for later. Even if the something was a VERY little something. DH had some of his college paid for, but he doesn't seem to have gotten the "saving" message.

[graciesma]

I see a certain few people who dont think its their responsibility to help with college. I can respect that however I strongly disagree. To these parents I ask this: Are your beliefs stemming from whether or not your parents helped you? There seems to be an overall feel of, I didnt get none and mine wont either. What will happen on the fatefull day your child asks about college. If they are able to work at the time would you then say, I think its time to get yourself a part time job and start saving! How in the world could they? How would justify to them being forced to "pay their way". I guess it just may come down to some people dont think financal help need extend past 18.

[Karry]

We are saving for our kids to go to college. I guess I don't think it is fair to expect an 18 year old to have to work or take out loans to go to college. :shrug

My dh's parents had money put away for him and his brother to go to college. Both of them had tuition paid for by scholarships. They used thier money to pay for room and board. Dh had some money left over and his parents gave it to him after he graduated. He saved some of it and used the rest to buy a car.

My parents had supposedly saved some money for my brother and I to go to college. I was encouraged to live at home and go to a community college to save money. I did this and I also had a part time job which I used as spending money. I was given money from a relative which I wanted to save and invest. My dad told me I had to use it for my tuition and books and I still had to live at home. :( I got married young (I was a month shy of my 21st birthday) mainly to get away from my parents. It was frustrating not getting any help from them for my college ed except for the fact that they let me live at home. I often regret not having a "real" college experience and I want this for my kids if that is what they want.

[Hey Mama!]

I hope that we can at least help pay for our dds college educations. Dh and I had no help at all from our parents, we had to make our own way. Dh worked his butt off, and ended up dropping out after two years to join the military. I kept on amassing huge student loan bills and never graduated. Now 8 years after we started college and three kids later we are trying to go back. It's hard and I don't want to put my kids through that.

[johub]

I see a certain few people who dont think its their responsibility to help with college. I can respect that however I strongly disagree. To these parents I ask this: Are your beliefs stemming from whether or not your parents helped you? There seems to be an overall feel of, I didnt get none and mine wont either. What will happen on the fatefull day your child asks about college. If they are able to work at the time would you then say, I think its time to get yourself a part time job and start saving! How in the world could they? How would justify to them being forced to "pay their way". I guess it just may come down to some people dont think financal help need extend past 18.


The same way I would expect them to buy their own car or pay for their own car insurance or buy their own first house.
My beliefs are stemming from the fact taht the reality of my family is that we live paycheck to paycheck, and almost all of the families I know do this also.
If our reality changed my perspective might change.
For example one tentative plan is that when my kids are in school I plan on going back to work, and that money is all going to be extra to contribute to IRAs in their names and maybe money for college too. (and vacations and some nice things that we do without while living on one income)
But I dont raise my kids to think they arent "entitled" to anything.
And there is no "one day" when your child asks about college, as if it has never come up for the first 16 years. There is dialog in families.
Also, I do not put a moral value on money. My children will always have a roof over their head and food in their bellies and a place to call home whether they are 8 or 80 (if I'm still alive of course). Anything else is gravy. Gravy is nice. But gravy is not an obligation.
I think everybody thinks kids DO need financial help beyond 18, which is why we all expect that our children will probably still need to live with us at that time, especially if they are going to college. SO I am not really sure where you get this idea that if we believe it is not our responsibility to pay for our childrens college that we therefore kick them out unprepared at 18 and expect them to fend for themselves.

[graciesma]

Well I never once insinuated or blatantly said you would be kicking them out to fend for themselves. Also its a little bit ignorant to think that there wont be a day when your child or anyone child wont bring up the subject of college. It will happen rest assured. I understand that some families are living as you say paycheck to paycheck. What my goal is since my family is not doing that, is to make sure my kids dont get off on the wrong foot like I once was. I obviously struck a nerve here so If this thread upset you fine. It upset me too. Some can pay and wont some cant and want too some can and will and whatever your situation is I hope it works for you as mine certainly does for me! Good day all!

[mamawanabe]

My parents didn't pay for school (they couldn't). I got pell grants and scholarships and worked - I still had a college experience away at a big state school. And I didn't have student laons

But college tuition is so much higehr now and scholarships, now that more and more students are getting decent grades and going to college, are scarcer. So I will have to help my children. If I am going to be a sahm, however, which requires giving up a career I cannot return to, we simply will not be able to send our kids away to a good school with tuition, room, and board paid by us. Rather there will be some compromise - kids live at home and we pay tuition or we pay tuition but kids need to work for room/board etc.

It is just the reality of both ever-increasing tuition costs (and there is no end to this) and ever-increasing competition for govement/schoalrship college money (as well as spots at good schools).

What my parents have given me - freedom from ever having to take care of them (they have a good retirement/long-term care insurance set up for them both). I think that it is more important to save for your retirement than to pay your kids' college or grad school costs & house down payments etc. The finacial and emotional burden caring for dependant parents as you care for your own young family would be more a handicap than a student loan debt.

That said, I don't buy that such extended finacial support of kids make them irresponsible/un-appreciative of their own skills. If you can pay your kids way (and they are thriving - we call know kids who don't thrive in such a situation), why not pick up the tab for law school and hosue down payments etc.

[johub]

Well I never once insinuated or blatantly said you would be kicking them out to fend for themselves
My apologises for misunderstanding your statements.

Also its a little bit ignorant to think that there wont be a day when your child or anyone child wont bring up the subject of college. It will happen rest assured.!
You completely misunderstand. Of course the subject is going to come up, as an ongoing dialogue throughtout their lives. NOt as a sudden bombshell as you imply. They arent going to say suddenly in their Junior year "Hey, how much you got saved for my college? I am plannign on going to Harvard." if there has been an ongoing dialogue in the family about college and the understanding of what is expected and how much help we are able to make.

I understand that some families are living as you say paycheck to paycheck. What my goal is since my family is not doing that, is to make sure my kids dont get off on the wrong foot like I once was. I obviously struck a nerve here so If this thread upset you fine. It upset me too. Some can pay and wont some cant and want too some can and will and whatever your situation is I hope it works for you as mine certainly does for me! Good day all!
Dont worry. No upset here. I hope you have a nice day :love

[velochic]

The finacial and emotional burden caring for dependant parents as you care for your own young family would be more a handicap than a student loan debt.

My mother lives with us. I think it's yet another American idea that it's hard to care for parents. Nah, it's not a big deal at all. I really feel like the debt I was in right after university was much more of a handicap.

I guess we must be an older couple of this thread. Dh is 50. I'm 35. We have one young daughter. I had my career, dh is tenured at the university. We are debt-free and financially sound. I guess that must partly paint my opinion that any amount you can give to your child's education is better than zero. Not everyone can give something, but in a heartbeat, I'd give up... say... my internet connection fees... to put that back in savings if that's all I had. I'd walk to the store instead of buying gas to put it back for education. But we don't have to and we DO save for retirement and college for dd. We also have a savings account for our 4 year old dd and have about $1500 (which is literally our pocket change that we put in a jar every night) in it already that we plan to give to her to do whatever she wants with it when she graduates high school. Current projections say that it'll be about $10,000 when she's 18. I suppose in your opinion, Johub, we shouldn't do that either? I guess bottom line is that we are paying for her college and giving her the money we can, so we're spoiling her. Well, I'll spoil her, then I guess. I'm going to rely on my parenting to teach her to not be spoiled, though.

[Lucky Charm]

We plan on paying for all 3 kids college education. I am talking state school, not private university which is out of our budget. If they want to do private, then I will contribute as much as possible.

I am currently paying cash for my daughters college, she is in her first year. She lives at home rent free, and I pay for her car insurance (we gave her a car for her 18th birthday).

Education is so very important to me and my husband. It is unthinkable that my child should incur a huge debt that I could pay for.

My parents paid for my education the first time.
I would never want my children to feel about me the way my husband and his siblings felt about their selfish ans self centered parents who refused to pay for an education they could have afforded to.

[PrettyBird]

My mother lives with us. I think it's yet another American idea that it's hard to care for parents. Nah, it's not a big deal at all. I really feel like the debt I was in right after university was much more of a handicap.

I agree!! I hope when/if my parents are unable to live on their own that they come to live with us, although my sister will probably want them to come live with them. My grandfather went to live with my parents when he was sick with lung cancer. My dad told me he couldn't believe some people consider this a burden.

[MommytoTwo]

We have prepaid our kids college (4 years worth) already. They can go to one of many state schools with it, or they can apply that money to many out of state or private schools. We still have to save for the room & board, but we have to balance saving for that with saving for our retirement. Knowing that the tuition is dealt with is a huge burden lifted.
I feel that it is a parents responsibility to pay for college, as much as they can manage it.

[DoubleOven]

:tiphat:

[PrettyBird]

We have prepaid our kids college (4 years worth) already. They can go to one of many state schools with it, or they can apply that money to many out of state or private schools. We still have to save for the room & board, but we have to balance saving for that with saving for our retirement. Knowing that the tuition is dealt with is a huge burden lifted.
I feel that it is a parents responsibility to pay for college, as much as they can manage it.

Can you tell me how you did this? Was it a special kind of plan?
Thanks!

[mamawanabe]

My mother lives with us. I think it's yet another American idea that it's hard to care for parents. Nah, it's not a big deal at all. I really feel like the debt I was in right after university was much more of a handicap.


Well, right now I'm watching my aunt care from my grandma. Definately hard.

Extended family homes can work and can not work, depending on the variables involved. I do know that it feels wonderful to know my parents are secure, I love not having to worry about them. DH's parents have enormous credit card debt and a morgage and their only retirement is a pension fund that GM will sooner or later defult on (plus his dad has 5 more years to work to qualify and could be laid off permanetly anytime). They are in terrible health. We worry a lot about them and what is going to happen to them. We are the only children who could afford to absorb them into our household, and we live two states away (they would never want to leave the area they've spent thier lives in and where their large extended family lives and we can't move to where they are). If we took care of them, it would mean that we defiantely couldn't send our kids to college and/or that I would have to work (and I really want to be a sahm - it is the kind of mothering I want to do).

[velochic]

Well, right now I'm watching my aunt care from my grandma. Definately hard.

Extended family homes can work and can not work, depending on the variables involved.

I don't want to turn this thread any further from the point, but I did want to say that, as I said before, it is a VERY, VERY, VERY AMERICAN viewpoint that caring for elderly parents is a hardship. Please believe me when I say that much of the rest of the world does not take this same attitude. It's just another phase of life for the majority of the world. I'm not sure I'd have the same attitude if I hadn't spent much of my adult life outside the US, but it seems very NATURAL to me to care for elderly parent. It may be difficult, but so was raising me. :love

ETA: Also... in much of the rest of the world this thread would have never existed because extended education is important enough that paying for college is not an issue. The government pays to educate its children/young adults.

<I now step off of my soapbox and return to previous programming. :innocent>

[mamawanabe]

I don't want to turn this thread any further from the point,

<I now step off of my soapbox and return to previous programming. >

I don't think this discussion is off topic. Given the finacial realities, many parents are going to make a decision between saving to set their kids up in the world and saving to support themselves when they are older. That is not an easy decision.

The mobility of american society makes setting up extended family households espeically difficult. My grandma had to leave her home 8 hours away to move in my my aunt, and part of her disagreeableness (which my aunt must suffer daily) comes from this displacement.

[TiredX2]

My parents paid for some of my college (about 1/6th) and DP's parents paid closer to half. This was at an state school, btw in the mid 90s. We (DP & I) put DP through grad school.

We save for the kids college, but not nearly enough (529 plan). The hope is that by the time they are both in college we will have paid off the house and can put our currant mortgage payment towards their college bills.

[MamaMonica]

We put a small amount in 529 plans every month. I hope to be able to contribute more later. I don't want my kids to start their adult lives in debt, so we'll help with education.

[phathui5]

If my children decide to go to college with a specific goal in mind (becoming a vet, professor etc) I would be happy to help them pay for as much as I am able to contribute. I won't pay for them to just "get a degree," I will likely not be contributing. I know way too many people who went to college because "that's what you do" only to get jobs that have nothing to do with what they went to school for.

I will also be happy to let them continue to live with us while they are going to school.

[mamawanabe]

If my children decide to go to college with a specific goal in mind (becoming a vet, professor etc) I would be happy to help them pay for as much as I am able to contribute. I won't pay for them to just "get a degree," I will likely not be contributing. I know way too many people who went to college because "that's what you do" only to get jobs that have nothing to do with what they went to school for.

I will also be happy to let them continue to live with us while they are going to school.

But what if they want to study philosophy because they love philosohy and they want to formally study it under people who know more about it than anyone else (philosophy professors). There is no job on the other side of that.

There are more reasons for formal study than vocational training. I agree that there should be some reason for going to school (either a future job you want or an interest in a subject you want to pursue), but I think that the ideas that the purpose of college is primarily about a future job is a narrow view of college - esp considering the many students who major in liberal arts with no plans to be a teacher/professor/lawyer. They major in it because it is what they want to know more about.

[phathui5]

I personally take college classes just for enjoyment. But I'm not asking my parents to pay for it. If my children want to go to college to prepare for a vocation, I will do whatever I can to help, but (in my opinion at this point anyway) if they want to go to college just to study something they're interested in that won't lead to them being financially independant, I don't see paying their way. Maybe helping them out, but I would consider it a recreational expense, like buying books for myself.

[velochic]

I personally take college classes just for enjoyment. But I'm not asking my parents to pay for it. If my children want to go to college to prepare for a vocation, I will do whatever I can to help, but (in my opinion at this point anyway) if they want to go to college just to study something they're interested in that won't lead to them being financially independant, I don't see paying their way. Maybe helping them out, but I would consider it a recreational expense, like buying books for myself.

I think I said this before... we must be a much older couple because my parents haven't paid for anything for either of us for like 20 years - in my husband's case, probably 30 years (he just turned 50). We take classes too (dh is a university professor, so we get a cut off of tuition), but our parents are all dead or in need of elderly care, so I guess I'm taking a very different approach to the way we see college. I DO NOT see furthering one's education as recreational, no matter WHAT they study. It's like saying "I'm going to college to have fun." No... it's about enlightenment. I would hope that by the time they are 18, we, as parents, have figured out our kids enough to know what their goal is... seek further education, find themselves, discover more about life, or drink beer and let mom and dad pay for it.

I now see, in my old age, the incredible benefit to studying something (in depth) for enlightenment. Sometimes, it actually takes going to college to even discover what might be interesting to you... to get the exposure that sets you on the path. And that doesn't always lead to something that is lucrative in the sense that it will make you money. And statistically, it' not likely to happen when you are 16 or 17 or even 18 years old. It's so sad that if you don't study something that will make you money, it's not worth it for a parent to help pay for the education. Sometimes intellectual pursuits won't lead to a job, but they lead to happiness for a person. For me, happiness is success and if I can help my dd be happy, then it's worth all the money I can give. Even if she never earns a dime from the degree. Or if she chooses to not attend college at all.

[mamawanabe]

And, beyond enlightenment, the discipline required to get a college degree is something. The neuron trails created in your brain is something.

[DoubleOven]

:tiphat: