How do you handle this?

[Lkg4dmcrc]

Not trying to start a huge debate or problem on this board, but I am really interested to know how you all handle some situations. I really wanted an all natural waterbirth but ended up very disappointed with an emergency c-section. I am fairly confident that I had to have the cesarean, but then I read some threads dripping with what appears to be judgement and I can't help questioning my own ability to determine what was necessary. I often feel when I am reading these threads, that so many mamas are of the opinion that virtually all c-sections are unnecessary. I feel that some are completely condescending to those that have had cesareans. I want to prepare for a future vbac and need answers to many questions. But I am quite taken a back by some of the posts and hence don't want to ask anything.

I know that to have a successful vbac, I need to process and accept my first experience. Do most of you simply ignore the posts that allude that the person should not have had a cesarean? Or are you all at a better place than I am with this?

I know that before I had my son, I thought that people who had interventions just didn't try hard enough. Is it possible that women who had good birth stories still believe like I did - that virtually you can control birth if you only keep trying?

[ChattyCat]

I know that before I had my son, I thought that people who had interventions just didn't try hard enough. Is it possible that women who had good birth stories still believe like I did - that virtually you can control birth if you only keep trying?

I know that's what I thought.

I took my Bradley classes, diligently practiced relaxation, meditated, did hundreds of kegels everyday, exercised, ate fastidiously, and had a horrific labor (9 days of 3 minute apart contractions and 46 hours of active labor) that ended in a csec after 6+ hours of pushing in every freaking position. Ds wasn't malpositioned. He was firmly wedged into my pelvis and not fitting. When they pulled him out, he had a bag of water (horrible swelling) on the crown of his head from slamming into my pelvic bones. I truly believe I was one of the very few women, whose baby literally would not fit. I am thankful for my Bradley classes and all the books that I read, because I at least had the information to know that I did all I could to avoid a csec. I don't think the outcome would have been any better had I gone off into the woods by myself to birth my child.

That said, it still took me about 18 months to accept my csec and process the feelings that I had. I still have moments where I feel like a failure for being unable to naturally birth my child. I think some of these feelings stem from not being able to get pregnant without medical assistance either, though.

The topic has been discussed before on MDC. Many of us feel unsupported. We don't belong at mainstream boards, because the people there don't understand our views on csecs (for instance: that we think that most women can birth naturally and that we are saddened and upset when faced with no other option than a csec). Yet, many people here still hold the view that virtually no csec is necessary. Or, even if they admit that some are, they will still question those who believe that their csec was necessary. It can be very frustrating and upsetting.

My advice is to ask all the questions you need to ask to plan your VBAC, and try to shrug off the people who seem to be judgemental. I think that most of them are truly trying to help, although they may not realize how painful their words can be.

[Storm Bride]

Liz: Everybody's at their own place in processing and coping with their surgery. I've had three c-sections, and I don't believe any of them were necessary. That's a very hard thing for me to live with.

And, then - I have a friend (sort of) who was telling me a week ago about her sister's "necessary" c-section...24 hours of labour! and the baby's heartrate was dropping!...and it turns out she was induced and had an epidural (I'm assuming she was labouring on her back), etc., etc. It's...frustrating.

I freely admit that some c-sections are necessary. But, I do tend to demonize them, because I strongly feel that the developing cultural tendency to see them as "just another way to birth" is very damaging to people like me who want to avoid them. My negativity is partly a reaction to the "oh, you cheated", "you took the easy way out", etc. comments that I received.

I think a lot of people here tend to take apart other women's c-sections, partly out of a desire (need?) to figure out when sections really are required, and how often they're being done unnecessarily. This topic causes strong emotions in people, and I'm sorry you get caught in the crossfire. All I can suggest is to remember that people who assume that you should/could have done something differently are working through their own baggage, and try not to take it personally (easier said than done, I know).

I know I've made mistakes that have caused my sections. I spend a lot of time kicking myself...maybe some people need to kick those around them, instead.

[wombatclay]

I know that before I had my son, I thought that people who had interventions just didn't try hard enough.

That was my feeling too...I'd watch those birth shows and tell my dh "of course she had a c/s! That poor woman just didn't know any better...she should have done X, Y, or Z. What an awful doctor and horrid hospital!".

And then I had my own c/s and spent months depressed, feeling like a huge failure as a woman and mother. But I had spontaneous rupture of membranes a full day before labor started, later followed by 19 hours stalled at 7cm...when I developed a fever the choices became pretty limited. But I was still crushed, and I know how you feel...the mainstream boards don't seem to go beyond a "why are you upset? you have a healthy baby" pat on the hand, and the alternative boards like mdc often leave c/s mamas with the sense that they've failed or are in some way "unclean" after a c/s. It's such a personal topic that it can be really hard to find any sort of balance for healing and recovery (physical, emotional, spiritual, etc).

You might want to check out the Natural Family Living c/s resource sticky in Birth and Beyond (http://69.20.14.30/discussions/showthread.php?t=401645)...there are some great resources there for helping you process your c/s and mamas who've BTDT as well.

I hope you find the balance and healing you need, and have a wonderful future birth experience no matter what happens.

[stayathomecristi]

Mama, I'm sorry that you had to have a c-section and even more sorry that you don't feel welcome here. I think that there can be a little prejudice about the necessity of c-sections because many of us feel that we have had unnecessary surgery and trauma (both physical and emotional) from them. We do not want to see anyone go through that without a very good reason.

That being said, I don't think it us up to others to judge whether a particular section was necessary or not (except perhaps for the really obvious). Only you and your providers know the true reason(s) for your section.

I firmly believe that in order to have a successful VBAC you need to process your prior section(s). I also believe (IMO) that it's helpful to have lots of support. Hopefully some of your support will come from those of us on MDC who have been there.

Personally, I think that you should continue to ask as many questions as you need to. It IS hard to ignore people who make a judgement, but haven't walked in your shoes. I think you will find that there are a lot of mamas here who will support you as you navigate your way through the whole VBAC adventure.

[AnditheBee]

I know what you mean...I felt fairly secure in my c-section decision, until a woman I met online (not here) spent a great deal of time in e-mail trying to convince me that if only I'd stayed at home I wouldn't have needed a c-section. She may have been right--who knows??--but it was the wrong time and the wrong way to express this opinion to me. It made my emotional recovery longer and more difficult for a while, as I re-played and re-played every aspect of the birth in my head...

But eventually I just got angry with her, decided she was full of crap, and yes--maybe if I'd had ALL the possible info on birth and a BRILLIANT midwife, I might have avoided it. But you know what? I was well-informed, I was positive, I was ready--my doctor and the L&D nurses were great--I had a wonderful doula--and I still chose a c-section based on my instinct and knowledge in that moment. I could not have done any more than that with what I had. It was not my fault, and I will no longer accept that it was. No one really knows what my labor was like except me--not the doctors, nurses, nor any doula or midwife I have told the story to. Only I really know, and only I have the benefit of my intuition, which was telling me that the surgery was necessary.

So the only way I have found to cope with comments/posts like that, is to realize that those comments are from people who have not lived inside my head, did not live through my experience, and usually are people who have never had the experience of an unwanted c-section at all. So why should I listen? I think you nailed it--these women really do think that making "the right choices" leads to "the right birth." Frankly, I think this is a naive position. Yes, the comments do sometimes hurt, but I can usually just shake my head and think, "Sorry, but you simply don't know what you're talking about. If you did, you wouldn't have written that."

On the one hand, I could spend a lot of time being frustrated and even angry that people do seem to go out of their way to comment on something they have not lived through--but what good would that accomplish? Besides, you never know whether they are truly trying to be helpful, or are just being buttinsky's...I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt, if possible--makes me feel less bitter. :p Sometimes I think people forget that the mamas here are not an "average" bunch who will just leap into c-sec without looking!

I don't think the majority of mamas here do make comments and posts like that--but I think the occasional thoughtless post or most vocal few make such a strong impact that they stand out, in a place where most of the comments are so strongly supportive.

[saritabeth]

I totally hear you. The thing about life is that you can always look back and say "what if....". It is annoying and unhelpful when people say 'I would have, or you should have bla bla bla" Because, essentially, what's done, IS done.

For me, I found it helpful to revisit my birth (sometimes again and again and again...) and consider what I would have done differently. The bottom line is that sometimes you can do everything just right and a csection still happens. You work with the best of what you have at the time.

I am due in 8-10 weeks. I am finding that doing some exercises that may help move baby into a more favorable position is encouraging to me. Maybe it will help, maybe not but psychologically it is doing wonders for me. I try not to give others too much info or opportunity to tell me what they think I should do because I am the only one who ends up living with what actually happens.

Its great to read and its great to get support. I have really stopped much of my reading at this point (of books or threads) and am trying to focus on a happy pregnancy and birth.

Much love to you as you continue to soul search and process. The only person who has to come to terms with your birth is you. Don't let people who don't even know you make you feel bad....I know that you did your best!

[niblet]

No advice, but I know how you feel.

It seems overwhelming, doesn't it? All the information to absorb about VBAC's, their frequency in your area, your feelings about your previous c-sec, and then comments from someone who hasn't been through it on top of that. (My SIL, who is a nurse, said, "Well it's the same thing, execept I have an episiotomy scar and you have a c-sec scar." Yeeah.Right.)

I tend to ignore posters who intimate that I shouldn't have had a cs. Maybe they were right, but what good does that do me now? (I wish there was a resigned shrug smiley.)

I don't think you can control birth, and I think anyone who thinks she can is playing with a power much greater than she realizes. I believe in education, preparation, support, and a good attitude. If you have the natural birth you want, great. If not, you know you went into it as well as you could. Managing birth is like trying to manage the ocean. You can't. You hope you can stay on top of that wave and surf to shore. Brava to the mamas that did it - but even more for us who tried gallantly and got to shore a different way.

[ckhagen]

In my case I like to think that I did the absolute best with the information I had at the time. Unfortunately for me, that information wasn't enough and/or wasn't correct and I was slowly coerced into the section. Because of the situation I was backed into, the surgery probably was necessary, especially considering the information I had to go off of. The point is... what can I do about it now? Technically, nothing. I can't go back and "fix" it. So, now that I know better, I am going to try my absolute best to do better. In the end though, this is and will be a different birth, so I have to accept the fact that even though I'm better informed this time, the issues that come up may not be ones that my knowledge will be able to overcome.

[Lkg4dmcrc]

Thank you ladies - I know that I did my best and actually way more than virtually everyone I know would. And, given what I had to work with I should just give myself a break. I do think that I was well prepared to give birth naturally like many of you - midwife, doula, chiropractor, Bradley classes, exercise, etc., and in some ways I was my own worst enemy - denying all medical intervention for several days until there was really nothing left to do to make sure my son came out okay. I was emotionally and physically traumatized by the whole ordeal and didn't sleep for at least three weeks. I kept replaying everything over in my head. If only I had signed out of the hospital AMA, if only I had found my acupuncturist, if only I had had a homebirth, etc. The bottom line is I would have been transferred to the hospital no matter what and with everything that happened, I would have had the cesarean. On a different day with a different child, maybe things would have worked out like I preferred.

I do wonder if people realize how traumatizing their words can be on this board especially if they have never experienced an unwanted cesarean. For people like me with all the education and preparation, I already knew that most cesareans are unneccesary. I did all that I could to avoid it and I want help with avoiding another one. But I don't need to hear that I did something wrong. I threatened to give my son up for adoption as they wheeled my off to the OR and I can honestly say that it was the second worse day of my life. I simply wish others understood how traumatizing the whole experience is for people who want natural childbirth.

I do feel more comfortable asking questions here. I really love and appreciate all the comments. Next time I feel a remark is out of sorts, I will just write this..."Sorry, but you simply don't know what you're talking about. If you did, you wouldn't have written that."

Thanks ladies!

[KKmama]

Some good replies here. I'd say all of us here who've had cesareans, even necessary and unavoidable ones, *do* wish that they could have been avoided. This isn't a mainstream board! First and foremost, I wish that birth activists *truly* understood that. Yes, there are folks here who've had Cs for no good reason, but there are also people here who *really* wanted intervention-free vaginal births and tried really hard but didn't get them. And we're sensitive about it. I *do* hate having to justify my C over and over again. (I'm in the camp of those who believe their C was necessary... I was super prepared, too, in terms of reading, birth classes, exercises, etc., but ds1 was transverse at the end despite all I'd done to change that, and then he went into 2nd degree distress at 42 1/2 weeks--I wasn't even in labor--and he just needed to come out quickly.)

In the end, I don't think making individual women feel bad about their birth experiences is productive (or nice). Even if some women *do* make bad decisions, look at the conditions under which they make them: they're very emotionally vulnerable, they may have been laboring for hours or days (so they're tired/in pain/not in the best frame of mind for making decisions), they may not have the best support (from their partners, nurses, etc), and drs. are often coercive (and say awful things like that if the C doesn't happen something terrible will happen to the baby). Changing the system is more important.

I think everyone's road to a VBAC is different, in part because there are many paths to a cesarean in the first place. We all have different decisions to make, different experiences to process (even different scars). At a certain point in my last pg, I had to just tune everything out--it was too distracting. I'm getting close to that time again.

I think there are a lot of things you can do to affect your birth outcome (for better or for worse). But in the end, no, I don't think it's something that can be "controlled."

[saritabeth]

One of the things I have learned from posting on various message boards is to try and keep it all in perspective. Lots and lots of people are flippant. I have learned not to put so much 'out there' that made me feel like I was emotionally vulnerable...especially when it comes to my birth experiences. It is very hurtful to have someone you don't know and who doesn't know you lecture and preach about what you 'could have' done bla bla bla bla bla. It sucks because you come to a place like this and expect better of people....but people are people and come from all perspectives. Some people will always think they know it all without knowing you.

I would suggest also looking into ICAN. They have local groups and can offer real life support for trudging through a difficult birth experience. I quickly learned what real friends I could lean on in regards to my birth disapointments...really, not everyone even feels bad about an unnecessary CSection, so they are mystified by someone having a healthy baby but grieving the experience.

So no real suggestions. People can be harsh....just remember that you did your best and you are the only person who knows how much you wanted it and how hard it was when it turned out different.

[warrior mama]

I struggle with these issues. I feel like I did everything to avoid a c-section and I think many mothers here do come into the category of "necessary c-section" just because of the nature of the boards.
I just wanted to say, it's not your fault.

[pumpkinsmama]

:hug I just ignore the posts that seem thoughless but unintentionally cruel and comment on the ones that are based on misinformation. Some peoples minds can't be changed, others just don't realize how judgemental and spiteful they sound. Most mama's here have good hearts and mean the best.

[wintermagick]

Like many mamas here I wanted a nice normal vaginal birth. I never went as far as wanting a totally drug-free or home birth, but a c/s is definitely not what I had in mind. Being it was my first and so far only birth I was heartbroken when I learned a c/s was my only "option". Was it "necessary"? Who really knows?

After 13 hours of labor I never dialted past 3. The doctor even gave my a couple of extra hours to see if there was a change (at my insistence), b/c he knew how uncomfortable with the c/s option. But there was no change, and we'd done everything we felt could be done.

If we are blessed with a Baby #2 I am planning a scheduled c/s... and I know some would probably say I should really try a VBAC. Truth is I am now "prepared" to handle a c/s birth. I know it will be a high risk pregnancy (my first one was) and I'll be well into my 30s. Those reasons are good enough for me.

[pumpkinsmama]

wintermagick Like many mamas here I wanted a nice normal vaginal birth. I never went as far as wanting a totally drug-free or home birth, but a c/s is definitely not what I had in mind. Being it was my first and so far only birth I was heartbroken when I learned a c/s was my only "option". Was it "necessary"? Who really knows?

After 13 hours of labor I never dialted past 3. The doctor even gave my a couple of extra hours to see if there was a change (at my insistence), b/c he knew how uncomfortable with the c/s option. But there was no change, and we'd done everything we felt could be done.

If we are blessed with a Baby #2 I am planning a scheduled c/s... and I know some would probably say I should really try a VBAC. Truth is I am now "prepared" to handle a c/s birth. I know it will be a high risk pregnancy (my first one was) and I'll be well into my 30s. Those reasons are good enough for me.

Just want you to know that barring something unusual you haven't gone into detail on, just because one pregnancy is high risk doesn't mean the next will be. I am "hoping to VBAC" because the first preg ended up that way and I'm waiting to see how this one goes. Also being in your thirties doesn't preclude VBAC. I am saying this with the understanding that there is probably a lot going on I don't know about... Just wanted to tell you in case you didn't know. If your reasons are good enough for you and you frequent this forum, then you should already know the risks to a repeat c/s and bene's for vaginal birth.

[warrior mama]

on the mothering website there is a wonderful article about cesarean birth and attatchment. It made me feel somewhat better if I didn't get to have the much desired VBAC next time

[dlm194]

I usually try to forget what I read in the threads where people make judgemental or sarcastic remarks about c-s. Same thing in real life. I'm so tired of hearing how "so many c-s are done today!" and "women need c-s because they don't know how to push." The latter comment came from a good friend of mine who just vaginally birthed a 10lb 2oz, 22.5 inch baby on Sunday (her first one was 9lbs 12 oz). My baby was "only" 8lbs 6oz. What can I say to that?

I did prenatal yoga starting at week 16 (regular yoga before that). I did squats, kegels, had a birthing ball, did visualization, read many books on natural birth. I took EPO and drank RRL tea started at week 36. I had a midwife. When I was 9 days overdue, my midwife told me to arrive at the hospital in 5 days for an induction. I immediately scheduled a pregnancy massage and a reflexology session to get labor going. It worked! I arrived at the hospital after 19 hours of labor at home with contractions 3 minutes apart. But I was only 2.5 cm dilated. I walked. I rocked on the birthing ball. I sat on the toilet. 4 hours later I was at 4cm only b/c my midwife was trying to manually dilate me - OUCH!!!!), we tried pitocin. That made me sick and put me in too much pain. We tried an epidural. I still didn't dilate further. Midwife began getting concerned b/c baby was just floating there, wasn't engaging and her head was swelling.

And then there as this problem:


In the end, I don't think making individual women feel bad about their birth experiences is productive (or nice). Even if some women *do* make bad decisions, look at the conditions under which they make them: they're very emotionally vulnerable, they may have been laboring for hours or days (so they're tired/in pain/not in the best frame of mind for making decisions), they may not have the best support (from their partners, nurses, etc), and drs. are often coercive (and say awful things like that if the C doesn't happen something terrible will happen to the baby). Changing the system is more important.

My dh was "tired" b/c he'd been up all night so he fell asleep. My midwife didn't want to be at that hospital (prefering a different one). She complained about the buzzing lights overheard. She assumed my dh was a war-monger since he is in the army. My nurse was a complete POS. She never even introduced herself to me. When my dh woke up, he decided to go visit friends who had delivered 2 days before (success induction - cervadil, pitocin, epidural, etc - her idea of a perfect vaginal birth).

Midwife brought the ob in who said I had a 5% chance of a vaginal birth. At that point, I was completely worn out, exhausted and nauseated but I couldn't move the lower half of my body. I was throwing up as they were trying to strap me down on the operating table. Did I mention that my dh wasn't there? Midwife had to run around the hospital trying to find him. 29 hours after labor began, I had a c-s

Yikes... if you read that!!! :lol:

So I guess I feel like I really don't know whether or not I could have had a vaginal birth if I had a better support system. And to have people judge me based on that is pretty harsh. Not to mention hurtful.