NT March Thread... [Archive] - MotheringDotCommunity Forums

TopazBlueMama

03-01-2006, 05:23 PM

I'm glad you got the book!
Group question: what is your favorite part in the WAP book?

I loved hearing about the Swiss. I really connected with them and their living and diet situation. Ahhh how would it be.
The book really opened my eyes to what it really means to be healthy. It's a whole new perspective now.

firefaery, I still get confused too. Sometimes I feel so sure about the ideal, then something will happen to totally shake things up. But from reading his book, it was totally ingrained in me that the MOST important thing is not to eat the modern foods. All the different groups had such varied diets and thrived! It was only when the modern foods were introduced that degeneration took place. :irked: It's so hard living in our modern day and try to be healthy!

Yooper

03-01-2006, 05:46 PM

I never waded through the entire February thread so I am glad there is a new one:)

Question for you hardcore NTers (especially recovering vegans):

What do you do about restaurants and eating out of the house (like parties, BBQs, staying with relatives). Do you just let it go and eat what is available? Can you handle watching your kids eat processed cheese or lunchmeat? As a VERY recent ex-vegan, I am starting to realize that I latch on to food ideals and cannot let go. We are slowly introducing eggs and dairy but only organic, raw (for milk), and from sources that I know for certain with my own eyes are treating their animals as well as I treat my cats. That is the only way I can get over myself. But now that we eat these things, I can see the slippery slope into bday ice cream and grandma's meatballs....none of which are from ethical sources or have any nutritional value in my mind. Being vegan gave us an "excuse" to pass on these foods without any emotion. Now saying "we don't eat trans fats, factory farmed, pastuarized, name your evil...." is just gonna make people mad and/or hurt.

My idea is that we will eat "vegan" in restaurants as we are used to it and know the lingo. The food is not really good for us. Mostly white pasta or white bread stuff with sad looking salads. But it gets us through the social obligation or nourishes us enough to get through vacation or whatever. But I think it is going to be very sticky at relative's houses or parties and such. I don't want to hurt people's feelings but i cannot fathom eating factory farmed animal products. Should I get over this? Obviously after being vegan for 5 years I have not "saved the world". Is poo-pooing that burger really worth the hurt and snide comments?

OK, now repeat that entire question with a twist.... We travel a great deal to people's houses. We are at their mercy for food most of the time. We also have a very active community of friends and are potlucking, dinner partying, BBQing, camping, etc.... together at least once a week and up to 4 nights week in the summer. This is not a once-in-a-while situation for us. Our diet coud be greatly effected if we just "let it go" for these occasions. All of thes people have been super understanding of our vegan thing. But I think this is different. Asking people to respect this is asking them to spend much more money and prepare food much differently than they are used to. How should we handle it?

mountain mom

03-01-2006, 05:52 PM

Subscribing.

mom2zsel

03-01-2006, 06:27 PM

I am right there with you, Yooper! We do not eat out all that much now, but are planning a month long visit to family this summer.

Subscribing and anxiously awaiting suggestions!

Panserbjørne

03-01-2006, 06:52 PM

Yooper, no suggestions, just support. We are there too. Newly not-vegan and hard to navigate the world. So far I'm doing just what you are describing...we eat vegan when we are out. We were very healthy vegans...fresh fruit and veggies, almost no grains, nuts and seeds. We didn't do "convenience foods" for the most part. Our vice was Trader Joes gluten Free, dairy free, egg free waffles. They were refined CRAP, but a special treat. (It is HARD to be a gf vegan!) It's not much different, it's just HOW WE EAT. It hasn't been that long, but it's okay so far. I just have alot of food packed before we go anywhere and don't expect anyone to do anything else for us. I see it as my opportunity to let other's explore, and since I don't have a deprived mindset it doesn't feel like the kids feel that way either. They genuinely (at this point) aren't interested in the other's "indulgences."

I loved reading about the Swiss and the Irish. I felt the same way...what a world! It's really hard for me because the vegan thing still makes sense to me from a health perspective. I'm fine doing the stocks (still curious about the B-12 factor) and some raw fish here and there. I've done some beef (pastured) but I'm not sure how I feel about it. My balance at this point is to do stocks almost every day and meat at one meal a week at least. I haven't yet been able to do more than three meals a week. I do have eggs though...2-4 a week. Oh, and butter and CLO every day. And same thing as Yooper-I know my providers. The thing that gets me the most is the intestinal tract thing. Ours just doesn't resemble a carnivores at all. So I figure by eating meat in small quantities I'm covering my bases. I get that all traditional cultures ate some form, and this is how I integrate it right now. Who knows what may change with more reading.

Modern foods definitely are evil. I have found substitutes for everything though, and I find that since I haven't had sugar in so long I just don't want it. I crave fruit for my sweet tooth. That's pretty great. I also make a FABULOUS raw pie that is totally NT compatible-who needs refined anything?:thumb Nice to be here to get more info from you smart gals.

mountain mom

03-01-2006, 06:53 PM

We are just as strict, if not moreso, about our food choices as we were when we were Vegan and Veg.

We don't eat any non-organic animal products. When we eat at restaurants we typically eat vegan or macro. Dd eats the same as us. I will never be cool with her eating processed foods. That includes all processed foods to a certain degree.

We are really committed to eating from scratch and that includes when we eat out. Rarely do we eat at chain restaurants, opting for locally owned and operated places that support local growers and offer organic choices.

When we eat at people's houses we try to eat as simply as we can. We potluck a lot, even with family. Plus our friends and family prepare simple foods and we are lucky enough to have people around us who eat very much the same and are committed to organics as we are.

If someone has a really different food philosophy and/or eats really differently from us then we focus on having time with them that doesn't involve eating a meal together.

I try not to get overwhelmed by the prospect of eating away from home and away from our comfort zone. There are certain things I can't comprise on. Non-organic animal products, white sugar products, store bought condiments and processed foods, foods with trans-fats, etc. But if someone has prepared a meal from scratch such as veggie chilli, I am not going to worry about whether they soaked the beans or not since I can digest them without distress either way, soaked or not.

I hope this helps a little! I kind of went on a tangent!!

In a nutshell, the concerns that I had for the environment while I was eating within a vegan diet have not changed. If anything they have amblified and become more dynamic. What finally got me to eat meat, other than fish was my experience last Christmas. My dh and I had been eating fish for about 5 years. My folks wanted to make us Christmas dinner and bought a wild salmon since we are opposed to farmed. I was surprised they could find wild salmon in our land locked province at christmas time and they said it was from China.

China?!?!

I thought to myself, what is more sustainable... A fish shipped from China or a pasture raised turkey that is ethically butchered to which I will make stock and create several meals from. That is raised and butchered 90 minutes from where I live and that lives an organic life on farm roaming free.

We had turkey that year!! :lol

Panserbjørne

03-01-2006, 06:56 PM

We posted at the same time...great story mountain mom!

2babybees

03-01-2006, 07:39 PM

subscribing...

We have successfully done three NT dinners this week, although I can't say the kids have ate a lot of it. I'm still getting whines for cereal in the morning despite the offers of pancakes, waffles, eggs etc. But it's getting less. I'm not sure about the whole going out thing either. I try to choose simple foods but it isn't always easy. Luckily dp and I agree we'd rather spend the money on a good organic chicken than a crappy $5 pizza from down the street.

Oh and we're getting raw milk for the first time next week after some diligent searching. We're pretty excited to say the least. :)

JaneS

03-01-2006, 07:50 PM

From previous month's thread:

So going by that, nothing above 116? I wonder what the 180 number is...more precisely how they measure it? I have been reading that you start loosing enzymes (in veggies and things) around 115-but they never give an upper limit. It's very interesting-to me at least:lol

180 means all pathogenic bacteria and enzymes are killed. How they measure what?

JaneS

03-01-2006, 07:54 PM

Does stock provide B-12? It seems like it should, but I don't know for sure

This article says there is evidence it's destoyed by boiling
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitaminb12.html

JaneS

03-01-2006, 08:04 PM

My favorite parts about N&PD...

Yes it makes me wonder so much more and completely frustrates me that there are not hordes of scientists testing these findings for the last 70 years!! :angry

Of course my fave is the whole nostril/jaw thing which totally FASCINATES me!

For example, how can my good friend who is a white bread vegetarian have 2 kids with great wide palates but pinched nostrils? And I get a round nostil wide face boy with spacing issues on his bottom teeth? (Actually DS got DH's wide face and my small mouth and chin I think.) I'm horrible lately with peering intently at people's faces... :nut

The connections made between birth defects and vitamin/mineral deficiencies is extraordinary. And mental deficiencies as well. I'll never ever look at food the same way again.

It also makes me want to be part of a modern team that goes into schools and teaches WAP nutrition and shows slides. Remember those stories, I loved that too.

Gale Force

03-01-2006, 08:11 PM

subbing

TopazBlueMama

03-01-2006, 08:18 PM

:lol Jane, I'm into dental arches.
Oh, I also thought that the lack of crime and mental problems is telling, too. Nutrition is just so important!

Firefaery, if you are thinking about doing a raw diet, why not add raw dairy and eggs to cover the bases? I've thought about doing that before, but I always get hung up on all the vegetables that are so much better cooked. I admit, I've gotten sucked into the raw craze at times. :o I don't know about the b-12 in those things, but you could always add in raw liver.
:wink

memory maker

03-01-2006, 08:41 PM

well today was day one of my makers diet journey. went pretty well except for a few sneaked m&ms from my dd. The rest of my day was mostly veggies, lentils and some organic beef for dinner.
For tomorrow I have some lentils soaking and some almonds drying in the oven.Im glad I had my microwave so that I could soak everything today and not have my dd get into all of it. I also am going to have my first goat milk kefir tomorrow.
I have a question about the really raw honey. I just got some for the first time. the honeycomb and stuff on top...do you eat it or scoop it off and get rid of it?

nicolena

03-01-2006, 08:50 PM

oh man--i'm already behind this month!:lol

i am worried about traveling too. i'm already planning a grocery list of essential purchaseable nonperishable things we can get a friend to pick up for us (from a wholefoods) for a trip we're making in may. she'll think i'm carzy, be she's used to that so she'll do it. but part of that trip is a wedding. and more than the three hour drive to the wedding with girls who hate restrictions of any sort (especially car seats), or making it through the church ceremony with twin toddlers, i'm dreading how i'll feel after eating the dinner at the wedding.

i never liked to eat out much anyway; now i won't. however, there is a nice 98% organic restaurant my dad's taking us to sunday if i can get reservations. (i don't think it's difficult; i just keep forgetting to call). i am ecited for this like i have never been about a restaurant in my life. cooler than eating at the real mama leoni's in ny as a pre-teenager. i am such a dork. but i cannot eat outside of my house now almost anywhere else. i'm going to order liver if they have it to see if i can stand it. dh will eat it (i think) if it's too much. he is loving this "diet"; he misses ixe xream so i buy him organic choc bars sometimes, but that's about all our cheating. oh, and still waiting on raw milk........

JaneS--i stare at people's faces on the subway all the time, trying to guess their diets.......

Panserbjørne

03-01-2006, 09:00 PM

I have no problem doing raw eggs or liver...I just have to figure out how to do them! I make aioli-but that's a teeny tiny use of egg. How else can I incorporate it? The liver sketches me out a bit, but my nutritionist is really for it as long as it's from an organic pastured animal. I have access to that, so I can try it. I did cook some (in the dumplings!) but I'd prefer it raw if I can find a way. I did raw milk for a bit. Even raw yogurt, we just don't tolerate it at all. Raw works for me because there are NO veggies that taste better cooked to me. One of my favorite salads is a raw kale and cabbage salad. MMMMMMMMM.

I eat the honeycomb.

Jane: thanks for the link. I had a feeling. I was wondering how they measure the enzyme content? Don't really need an answer, just wondering out loud... And I think that would be a great program! And I feel the same about the birth defects. It's so sad and scary:(

chasmyn

03-01-2006, 10:48 PM

Does anyone have any thoughts on what to do with chicken jello? There is always so much left after I make a chicken, and it seems wrong to throw it away.

Worldshakerz

03-01-2006, 11:19 PM

2babybees...I thought I'd share this recipe that was posted on the local WAP chapter yahoo group I go on. It's for her original NT-ized cereal recipe:

DIANE’S OATMEAL CEREAL

5 cups oatmeal + 4 cups hot filtered water
5 tbsp yogurt
½ cup coconut oil
¼ cup butter
¾ cup honey
fruit(s) of choice (4-5 very ripe bananas, 2 cups raisins, etc)
crispy nuts of choice, chopped
cinnamon, allspice, nutmeg to taste

Mix water, oatmeal, and yogurt in bowl; cover and let sit @ room temperature for 24 hours; Blend in remaining ingredients with your hands after soaking; Spread ¼ inch thick in two jelly roll pans lined with parchment paper; place in 200 degree oven and cook 6-12 hours or until crisp; Cool; break into bite-size pieces, store in airtight container at room temperature.

Serve with cold milk or over yoghurt.

It looks absolutely awesome. I haven't made it yet but plan to soon. Doesn't it sound yummy?

Firefaery, raw eggs or egg yolk you can add to any kind of smoothie you may eat or any veggie/fruit juices even. For the raw liver, have you tried a Pottenger Liver Cocktail or Raw Liver Drink from NT? Let me know if you need the recipes for those.

As far as eating out or at family's house etc, I tend to cave under the social pressure. I really try to stick with whatever is offered that is the better choice...which usually sends up being salad or fruit. I'm also always lugging a that usually has some organic fruits and veggies, nuts, half gallon of raw milk or some kefir, pastured eggs, etc. Between what they offer and what I have I can usually do okay.

I am making NT ketchup for the first time. I used kefir whey in it. My milk grains that I've been reviving have started making decent kefir after about 5 days. It was just a small amount and I'm increasing the milk with the current batch...but I had enough to strain and have a little tiny bit of kefir cheese and enough whey for the ketchup. :thumb

I'm having so much fun with my milk and water kefir grains. I can't wait until the milk grains start kicking up production to make enough kefir for daily smoothies. I'm loving the water grains, I've been trying different things with them. I really love putting them in straight apple juice, it's been my fav so far. I've tried grape and I didn't like it too well. I tried the cream soda recipe from EFLF and didn't like it either. Orange juice is pretty good, I mixed some with water, lemon slices and star anise. I'm becoming a kefir maniac :lol

Panserbjørne

03-02-2006, 06:01 AM

I'd love the recipes. Thanks for such a speedy reply!

member

03-02-2006, 06:05 AM

Subbing!

I am not as good at it as Mountain Mom, but I try to do the same thing when eating away from home. I will eat vegan when I am unsure about the food.

April best of luck with the ketchup! I made the mayonnaise last week and it's delicious! I am going to make curried chicken salad with it over the weekend.

I made a double batch of ginger carrots. I have to say they are my favorite right now.

RidentMama

03-02-2006, 10:10 AM

Subbing.

mountain mom

03-02-2006, 10:34 AM

So how many of you have ever had a $200 grocery bill for the month?

How much do you all spend on groceries?

We are really trying to keep our grocery bill less than $200 a week and I saw a thread in mindful home management where there were a few users that are spending $200 a MONTH on food and that includes a family that has two teenage boys!

I am on a mission now. So how much do you all spend?

member

03-02-2006, 10:41 AM

I spend about 300-400 a month for two adults. I used to spend about 30-50 a week but that was on conventional products with very few organics.

DH and I are students and we live on a limited quarterly budget but we cut other places and keep the lion's share of flex money for food. We cut entertainment, eating out and frivilous expenses (I literally had a latte factor).

toraji

03-02-2006, 11:04 AM

Yooper: congrats on the name change!

To be quite honest, after my diet change I still ate vegan out of the house. Did that for a loooong time. Then after that, I started including fish with the reasoning that it was easier to find wild fish than pastured animal product since we live on the coast, and would try to stay wild caught though sometimes at family gatherings and potlucks I was not sure if it was farmed or not (at restaurants you can pretty much just ask if it is wild or not). This is pretty much how it has stayed since then. In moments of desperation I have slid to organic but not pastured animal products, though I don't eat non-pastured eggs as I find them to taste disgusting. Since I have cut out most grains, beans, and dairy it's been a rough ride staying vegan while eating out.

I will admit that it is definitely difficult to keep those restrictions in place. I found it easiest to tell people to just stick to fish and veggies. Though that does not work so well if you live inland, in that case I'd probably just stay vegan while eating out unless I knew of a place that used pastured animal products. We are still quite strict on packaged and processed foods as well.

re: kids and food
We have done our best to tell DD that things like store ice cream and candy are just plain junk (we do make our own homemade ice cream, cultured and low-sugar of course). And we mean it, with great conviction in our voices, and we don't eat them ourselves when DD is not looking. We have explained the difference between food that makes healthy bodies and food that makes people sick, and she is pretty good about not wanting to eat junk food. Also since we don't keep a lot of sugar in the house she is not used to really sugary foods and if she does get a bit of birthday cake then she will usually only eat a few bites and then leave it. So for some things we will under no circumstances let her eat (like candy) with reasons why, and other things like homemade birthday cakes at friend's houses we let her self-regulate, also with the warning that it's probably a bit too sweet. There is no way she will ever eat Lunchables or fast food with my knowledge.

MountainMom: :clap ITA!

Panserbjørne

03-02-2006, 11:51 AM

$150 a week, but it's a struggle. We have no money and no savings, but this is what's important to us. We won't own a home anytime soon, but we hopefully won't be needing doctors either!

memory maker

03-02-2006, 11:58 AM

toraji-I would love your recipe for ice cream. we have made it before, but it was loaded with sugar. It would be great to make it this summer again (without so much sugar)

We probably spend around $150 a week for 2 adults and 2 kids (the other child is still all mommy milk)

memory maker

03-02-2006, 12:10 PM

I have a question for those that have soaked/dried nuts. If you dry them and they are still a little soggy in the middle, does that mean they need to dry longer, or is that how they are supposed to be? Some of mine were and some werent. this is the first time I have done it but wasnt sure how they were supposed to turn out. It sounded like in the NT book that they would be crispy throughout.

BTW it was almonds that I soaked/dried

RidentMama

03-02-2006, 12:35 PM

$100 or less per week, but we raised our own beef, so I'm not buying any of that in the store.

Re: crispy nuts...I just dehydrate the heck out of them until they're crispy all the way through.

Worldshakerz

03-02-2006, 01:01 PM

firefaery here are those recipes:

Pottenger Liver Cocktail
Makes 1 cup

1 small chunk pasture-fed beef or lamb liver, frozen at least 14 days
4-6oz tomato juice
dash of tabasco sauce
squeeze of lime juice
1 TBS whey

Grate liver finely to obtain about 1-2 tsps. Mix with tomato juice, whey and seasonings. Drink immediately.

Raw Liver Drink
Makes 1 cup

1/4 pound raw beef liver, frozen at least 14 days
1/2 cup cold water
pinch sea salt
juice of 1 lime
1/2 cup freshly squeezed orange juice
1 tsp sucanat (optional)
1 TBS whey

Enjoy :thumb

uccomama

03-02-2006, 01:05 PM

:wave

Subbing.

mama2j&t

03-02-2006, 01:06 PM

Hi. I have had the NT book for about a year now. I am finally to the point that I want to really start putting it into practice. I am excited, but am going to try not to put too much pressure on myself- which is why I didn't succeed the first time we tried this. I'm waiting on our raw milk, the farm is a little low on milk right now so he told me it would be a couple of weeks. We already make yogurt and home, and I need to get some kefir grains (my kids love the kefir from the hfs). I also just started soaking some chickpeas in whey to make some hummous tomorrow :lol

Does anyone know about soaking gluten free grains? I am g/f and make my own 'breads'. I wonder if soaking those flours would be beneficial. My family eats wheat, though in moderation, so I need to start making their bread instead of buying it. The two main vices we have left are white bread (darn dh) and store bought ketchup. Other than that we are pretty much on un-processed, a lot of organic, food.

I look forward to hanging out with you guys :D

Hibou

03-02-2006, 01:31 PM

yitlan

03-02-2006, 01:38 PM

Subbing. I was out of the loop on the new thread! A few random notes: I have no idea how I could ever spend that little to feed my family of 4. Dh is in grad school and I'm home with the kids. I do make a little money, but we mostly live on loans and by the end of his quarter, are scraping by. But, before he started school, we talked about our priorities, and high quality food is one. We cannot sacrifice that. I do make some sacrifices:
If we're low on raw milk, the kids get it and we do organic.
I don't cook with raw cheese.
Sprouted grain bread in the bread machine.
Not a comprehensive list, but just to show....

As to eating out, I don't sweat it. I know people who when they do travel or eat with others, suffer for it: yeast, upset stomach, blah feeling, etc. We don't have that, so it's not as much a concern. I just try to make the best choices. I try to encourage my kids, but ultimately let them choose and sometimes they choose things that make me cringe (hot dogs are exciting to them for some reason). But, I remind myself that they eat well otherwise.

I am headed to Denver this weekend for the WAP conference up there! One of the talks includes a section on how to choose when eating out. I'll take notes! My mom (somewhat into NT) and my sis (not at all) are visiting me and we're going up together. I heard my sister say to her dh "I thought all the meals (at my house) were going to be weird, but their good!"

member

03-02-2006, 02:37 PM

I am headed to Denver this weekend for the WAP conference up there! Oooo! Have a great time! I am so jealous! :mischief:

OceanMomma

03-02-2006, 02:38 PM

Also reading N&PD here. Totally fascinating. It's given me lots to think about. I would be interested in how the bone structure on the faces of children born in our families differs pre & post NT. My dd born just before I discovered NT has much face wider bones than my kids born before. She looks alot like the kids on the outer hebrides islands in the photos in NT. Except her hair is much curlier & she's not as pale.

I spend insane amounts of money on groceries. But this week, I did not buy dh any of his junk food & mysteriously the whole lot was $90 cheaper.

As to eating out, I dread it. I found it alot easier when I was vegan. It was quantifiable to most ppl. I tend to take my own food alot of the time. I always carry a bottle of raw milk when I go out. I take a suitable version of a main stream dish if I go to potlucks & make sure the kids eat that. The other thing I do is feed the kids before we go out. I make sure they get lots of treats like really yummy fruit ( strawberries, blueberries fejoias etc ) , raw maple syrup icecream & things like that so they are not sitting around feeling "deprived". Burgers & factory farmed meat, I refuse to eat/buy for all the same reasons I didn't when I was vegan.

Ruthla

03-02-2006, 03:06 PM

Ok, what's "N&PD"? I know NT= Nourishing Traditions and I'm currently waiting for my library to email me so I can take it out. What other books do you recomend?

I want to learn about NT and make some gradual changes in my diet. For example, I know that getting raw milk is out of the question right now, but things like soaking grains won't cost me any money.

Boadicea

03-02-2006, 04:33 PM

N&PD is the Weston A. Price book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration". It's the book outlining the research upon which NT is based. Excellent read, if you can find it! :thumb

Doing what you can when you first start is the only way to go, I think. Trying to change EVERYTHING at once is a bit overwhelming. So, if you already make stock (and I see that you do, from the thread about stock making) and you start to soak your grains, but you're not yet drinking raw milk, you're making progress. KWIM? :) Then, perhaps, you can start to make cultured/fermented veggies, or make kefir and yogurt out of organic milk (even if it's not raw -- the probiotics are a good for you, regardless). Baby steps!

Boadicea

03-02-2006, 04:41 PM

Oh, and as to what other books I'd recommend, here's my (not so short) list:

* Wild Fermentation by Sandor Ellix Katz
* Know Your Fats: The Complete Primer to Understanding the Nutrition of Fats & Oils by Mary Enig (co-author of NT)
* Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills by Russell Blaylock
* The Untold Story of Milk by Ron Schmid
* The Milk Book: The Milk of Human Kindness is Not Pastuerized by William Campbell Douglas
* The Body Ecology Diet (8th Edition, if you can get it) by Donna Gates
* The Maker's Diet by Rubin Jordan (these last two especially if you have gut issues, Chron's disease, candida overgrowth, CFS, fibromyalgia*, autism, ADHD, allergies, etc.)

I'm about to start reading Breaking the Vicious Cycle by Elaine G. Gottschall, which is the book outlining the Specific Carboyhydrate Diet. I know several others around here consider it required reading, too, if you have gut issues at all.

My list is probably different than that of others, so take it with a grain of salt (sea salt, of course ;)). And I have others on my list that don't specifically relate to NT, so I didn't include them. But any of the above would be a good place to start, IMO.

member

03-02-2006, 06:41 PM

I definitely recommend Wild Fermentation; it's a fun read and the recipes are easy and their pretty common ingredients, just used in fermentin' fashion.

JaneS

03-02-2006, 06:46 PM

Ok, what's "N&PD"? I know NT= Nourishing Traditions and I'm currently waiting for my library to email me so I can take it out. What other books do you recomend?

This link offers a great synopsis:

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/ancient_dietary_wisdom.html

OceanMomma

03-02-2006, 06:49 PM

Has anyone cooked the orange cake out of NT?

Also anyone any experience cooking with honey instead of sugar? I figure that organic raw honey from over the harbour is a more environmentally friendly option than shakur sugar shipped half way around the world.

Still working on the liver. I'm planning to try some chicken liver pate this week & get some beef liver to mix in with some jerky as snacks. I have been finding I can tolerate the cod liver oil taste a bit more. :lol I try to think of some of my ancestors having cod head stuffed with oatmeal & fish liver as a treat.

rootzdawta

03-02-2006, 07:15 PM

Just subbing to learn . . . awesome stuff.

If I wanted to soak flour to make a cake, would I need a dehydrator to do that??

Ruthla

03-02-2006, 07:31 PM

Oh, and as to what other books I'd recommend, here's my (not so short) list:
Thanks! I just requested a few of those from my library (gosh I LOVE the online library book request thingie!!)

nicolena

03-02-2006, 07:47 PM

yitlan--please report back on your trip! i bet it'll be awesome. and yummy.

re crispy almonds--i'd just keep baking. i'm baking mine for 24 hours at 170 degrees (my oven won't go lower, but it's convection, so it tends to seem to cook a bit slower than my last oven). i hope i'm not killing something by cooking 20 degrees above!

how do you guys spend so little? i probably spend just over $1000. dh and me and food for a guest or two each week. that's shopping at 4 different stores. i buy fruit leathers for the girls (want to get a dehydrator and stop)--almonds are 7.99 for almost 2 cups! milk is about $4 for 1/2 gallon, organic (tho it'll be $5/gal raw if i ever get put on the list). i am clearly doing something wrong, but we do live in the city. gah.

i just made the nt allday stew for the second time. i left out the cloves and peppercorns and added onions and mushrooms. it is very very good. i'm so freakin proud of myself that i made everything from scratch! i'm currently marinating a potroast in buttermilk. i have never cooked a potroast before. am i going to explode from all this meat?

OceanMomma

03-02-2006, 07:47 PM

Boadicea

03-02-2006, 07:47 PM

Anyone else have a butter bell? I've had one for years and I think they should be included on the suggested tools list in NT.

For those of you not familiar with butter bells, here's a couple of links:

Les Daniels Handmade Pottery (http://www.leepots.com/french_butter_crock.html)

Amazon.com Butter Crocks (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_ss_1/103-5403355-2228617?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-alias=kitchen&field-keywords=butter%20crock)

The Original Butter Bell (http://www.butterbell.com/)

They allow you to keep butter fresh and spreadable, all at the same time. :thumb I think they should stock them in the grocery in the spot where they're selling margarine now! :lol

nicolena

03-02-2006, 07:49 PM

i just started leaving my butter on the counter. it is gone in a few days. is that bad for the butter?

yitlan

03-02-2006, 08:26 PM

Yes, I'll definitely report back! I love my butter bell. I leave it out on the counter all the time. In the summer, though, I don't use it much. Our house is south and west facing and gets SO HOT. So just taking it out for five minutes renders the butter spradable. I highly recommend them, though.

Boadicea

03-02-2006, 08:56 PM

i just started leaving my butter on the counter. it is gone in a few days. is that bad for the butter?
Butter goes rancid very quickly. Even in a few days, it's growing stuff in there you don't want to think about. :(

gardenmommy

03-02-2006, 09:29 PM

hmmm...I grew up eating raw butter that we just left out on the counter. It was gone in a few days, also. None of us has ever been sick from it, although I can tell when it's gone off.

Seems like if it's raw, all the good beasties should keep the bad beasties in check until you eat it up. 'Course, I used similar reasoning on my SIL about pastuerized butter: it's pasteurized, so there shouldn't be anything growing in it anyway.

tayndrewsmama

03-03-2006, 06:29 AM

Wow! 3 pages and it's only the 3rd! Early on the 3rd at that. :lol

hookahgirl

03-03-2006, 07:04 AM

Yooper

03-03-2006, 08:07 AM

What do you all think about freezing food? I made the black eyed beans with chard recipe in the NT book last night. It made about 8 meals worth!!!!! There is no way we can eat that all and money is super tight so I really don't want to give it away or throw any out. Freezing would be great but I am not sure if that is bad. There are fresh herbs, lime juice, soaked beans, and chard in it. Any reason I cannot freeze it?

Yooper

03-03-2006, 08:11 AM

Subbing for the month!

Im new to the world of NT, and right now, money wise its just not feesible for all of us, but i am wanting to learn as much as possible so when we can afford it I'm ready.

DD, however, is all organic allt he time.

My question is, if you could just pick one part of NT to practice what would it be? I was thinking it would be the organic meat, what about you? And why?

I am with you on this! I am starting with the cheapest things. Soaking grains, flours, and beans and fermenting does not cost any more than actually eating them any other way. It just takes time and organization. So I think of it as developing my discipline until I have enough money to do the easier stuff. We do eat all organic veggies because for us it is not too much more. Since we were vegan, we are very slowly adding animal foods in but only organic, ethically treated, and grass fed/free range. Since we are doing it slowly, the ramp up for extra cost will be slow.

Boadicea

03-03-2006, 09:07 AM

You should be fine freezing that. :thumb Freeze it in individual meal sizes and you'll have several easy NT-friendly meals already prepared. That's my idea of awesome! :lol

Panserbjørne

03-03-2006, 09:33 AM

Yooper, us too at this point. The animal products we eat are CLO, butter and pastured eggs. I am doing beef stock and just getting the bones from a farm that pastures and is organic. The bag is like $1.25 for enough to make a pot of stock. Occassionally I have splurged on pastured ground beef or stew beef from the same farm for dh and dc's. I ate it twice. But the point is I stretched a pound to several nights. I made zucchini linguini with tomato sauce for all of us and dh and dc's each got a couple of meatballs. Veggies, fruits, nuts and beans are still the main parts of our diet. It hasn't been an expensive change for us.

toraji

03-03-2006, 11:24 AM

I seem to remember a couple people here doing BodyTalk...well, I just heard of a practitioner in my area and was wondering if it was worth the money? Have you seen lasting effects with it? Thanks!

Back on-topic: I will get the ice cream recipe as soon as DH writes it down. :)

mountain mom

03-03-2006, 11:48 AM

I am pretty sure that was HerthElde that was doing BodyTalk.

I know many people here who have done it with great success.

Good luck!

moneca

03-03-2006, 12:10 PM

[QUOTE=Worldshakerz]2babybees...I thought I'd share this recipe that was posted on the local WAP chapter yahoo group I go on. It's for her original NT-ized cereal recipe:

DIANE’S OATMEAL CEREAL

5 cups oatmeal + 4 cups hot filtered water
5 tbsp yogurt
½ cup coconut oil
¼ cup butter
¾ cup honey
fruit(s) of choice (4-5 very ripe bananas, 2 cups raisins, etc)
crispy nuts of choice, chopped
cinnamon, allspice, nutmeg to taste

Mix water, oatmeal, and yogurt in bowl; cover and let sit @ room temperature for 24 hours; Blend in remaining ingredients with your hands after soaking; Spread ¼ inch thick in two jelly roll pans lined with parchment paper; place in 200 degree oven and cook 6-12 hours or until crisp; Cool; break into bite-size pieces, store in airtight container at room temperature.

Serve with cold milk or over yoghurt.

Worldshakerz - This sounds so yummy, but I'd be concerned that the hot water mixed with the oatmeal and yoghurt would actually kill the good bacteria in the yoghurt, thus not neutralizing the phytates. What do you think? I'll try it with room temp water and hope it comes out cuz it sounds so yummy! Thanks for the recipie.

Jeanne_L

03-03-2006, 02:38 PM

Does anyone have any thoughts on what to do with chicken jello? There is always so much left after I make a chicken, and it seems wrong to throw it away.

i use it to make gravy, or just add it to the bones for making stock (which i almost always do with a whole chicken). otherwise i imagine you could add it to rice or beans when cooking them. it's so flavorful and has lots of healthy gelatin... it's great to use it!
hth

Gale Force

03-03-2006, 02:55 PM

Has anyone cooked the orange cake out of NT?

Yes, and it was pretty good, but I modified it over the holidays with a kefir/pomgranate juice and it was fantastic.

nicolena

03-03-2006, 06:58 PM

ok--recovering vegetarian here. i am NOT looking forward to finding out what chicken jello is when i make chicken stock next week:lol

(can i just repeat how good my stock/stew is? i can't believe i made that!)

i'm glad someone brought up the money thing. i have gone out of control buying spices and such. i can't buy anything non-organic. help me.

(agh--dh says off the internet!)

steffanie3

03-03-2006, 08:22 PM

Does anyone use palm oil? The virgin red palm oil is on sale from Tropical Traditions http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm .

Brookesmom

03-03-2006, 09:27 PM

Cool, thanks. Of course about an hour ago I just bought my first tub of palm oil from Whole Foods to try it out in baking.

-Kelly

toraji

03-03-2006, 09:27 PM

Does anyone use palm oil? The virgin red palm oil is on sale from Tropical Traditions http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm .I have it and use it occasionally. It is extremely high in beta-carotene so it tastes like carrots. Really strong carrots. It's kind of difficult to explain, like the orange part but not the anise part if that makes any sense. So I use it in things that don't really get affected by that carrot taste like stir-frys. It's supposed to be very good for you though.

OceanMomma

03-03-2006, 11:52 PM

Gale Force, how did you modify the recipe? I'm soaking some flour tonight as I have the oven on tomorrow so I will bake the cake then.

hookagirl, I get my raw milk direct from a farm & my organic beef direct from a farm. It costs the same as the regular inorganic stuff from the stores costs. I try to grow as many veges as I can myself & I save my own seeds for a lot of them. Fruit I buy either direct from local growers or from the farmer's market or the local organic shop.

rootzdawta

03-04-2006, 12:10 AM

rootzdawta you don't need a dehydrator to soak flour. All you need to do is soak the flour in water & whey or yoghurt overnight. I think you can soak grains like this & then dehydrate them & grind them into flour but that is a whole heap of expensive kitchen equipment! Too much for me on my budget.

Thanks!!

Also, one more question. I don't know if any of you have/had a fussy/cranky baby . . . does NT help with that? I mean, I think the root of all health certainly comes from diet and I've been wondering if it's maybe my diet that is causing ds to be a demanding baby or is it just his personality . . . What illnesses have you all cured eating in the NT way?

As for palm oil, in Nigerian cooking, it is the primary oil that is used. It really does have a bold flavor and I really can't imagine using it for foods that are not Nigerian. It doesn't seem like it would work. I'm glad to know it's a good oil though, because I've certainly had enough of it d uring my lifetime.

Thanks for letting me hang out on this thread! I'm learning a lot.

jessicaSAR

03-04-2006, 04:54 AM

I'v been reading these threads for months, so I suppose it's time I introduced myself, and I need to subscribe just to keep up with the thread. I have been gradually moving to a NT diet since the beginning of the year. My story seems to be pretty common. I have been vegetarian for 16 years, through two pregnancies and my body is finally just falling apart. I have been struggling with mood swings, pms, depression, skin problems and chronic iron deficiency and other vitamin and mineral deficiencies. But, what really got me thinking was the crazy tooth decay in my 2 year old (who was EBF for 9 months and has had a fantastic vegetarian low sugar diet since then:scratch ).

I have been soaking grains and beans and making my own bread, and I just tried my first batch of saurkraut. I have a local source for raw milk and chicken, turkey and beef, and just got my first small order of beef. I am still struggling with the homemade yogurt (I hate the taste) and kefir (I don't have any grains, so I have been using storebought kefir). I like fish, and would love to include it, but am worried about mercury and other contaminants. Anyway, it's a start and I am learning so much about nutrition. I probably spend about $500 a month right now on food.

Yooper

03-04-2006, 07:13 AM

So my sauerkraut has been fermenting in a "warm" spot for three days. Warm being tthe inside of my never-used microwave. It is probably still not 72 degrees as it is winter here and we keep our house at 55. How do I know it is time to transfer to the fridge? Ther ecipe says it might take longer in cooler kitchens.

mountain mom

03-04-2006, 07:40 AM

Just taste a little bit. Thats how I do it Yooper. If its as tangy as you like then its done. Leaving it too long might cause mold to grow but I have left mine as long as 5 days in the winter without any mold. As well when you open the jar you will hear a bit of a fizz.

Not too scientific! But it works.

steffanie3

03-04-2006, 09:07 AM

Do most of you still get your cow milk in the winter?

The lady we get our milk from doesn't have any right now because her cow is pregnant and won't have any until spring. So we just haven't had any this winter. I have bought cream, it is not organic but only pasturized not ultra like the organic I can get and wayyy cheaper. My DH has only recently said something about buying some milk. Oh and it is not homogenized since it is just cream. Do you think that is a better choice than organic ultra-pasturized milk?

JaneS

03-04-2006, 10:52 AM

UGH, the money issue. We spend a lot. About $1,000/mo. because DS and I are eating both NT and the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. And DH eats the SAD and eats out a lot. But just in the past week I've located a local buying club (the same one that stocks Whole Foods) thru http://www.unitedbuyingclubs.com/ plus a new pastured dairy/meat co-op that also has all kinds of stuff at great prices, including fermented foods AND goat's milk for DS!! I'm in heaven!! :banana

Mehera,
Yep, I remember my early post-veg chicken jello days! It melts on heat, easy to freeze for later and add to anything. The gelatin is excellent for the gut, soothing and enhances digestive enzymes.

I just saw on your blog that you are going to try to join Just Dairy! (I belong now but am in process of breaking off into a smaller group out of Tewksbury - not near me but it's going to be well worth it I think 'cause we can get meats and other products regularly too.)

Feel free to contact me if you have any ?s about JD. Cyndy is not necessarily the best communicator ... and the group has gotten so large there's confusion quite frequently. I've picked up in Cambridge on occasion, so let me know before you go and I'll give you tips.

Stephanie,
I belong to a large dairy co-op in Eastern MA that works with several local dairies so we've still gotten milk. Although a few dairies on our list have closed for the winter too. And there's been a lot of shortages b/c the cows just don't produce as much.

JaneS

03-04-2006, 11:20 AM

Also, one more question. I don't know if any of you have/had a fussy/cranky baby . . . does NT help with that? I mean, I think the root of all health certainly comes from diet and I've been wondering if it's maybe my diet that is causing ds to be a demanding baby or is it just his personality . . . What illnesses have you all cured eating in the NT way?

Yep, DS was colicky. Antibiotics at birth. Formula b/c he was very dehydrated from a 40 hr. drugged labor. Plus my gut wasn't so good. I couldn't lay down the proper intestinal flora for him even through he was totally EBF after only 2 days of supplementary FF. (Hadn't found NT yet tho :( .)

Lactose intolerance was probably the cause of our colic. This all turned into a high needs baby and toddler with digestive issues. His behavior has ebbed and flowed with the current state of his digestion so clearly... behavior is absolutely connected to digestion, I was just posting the same today in the Gut Healing Tribe.

I think NT can have huge impact: soaking all beans, grains, nuts. Making sure to have yogurt/kefir/fermented foods and bone broths everyday. And grass fed dairy, cod liver and coconut oil. These are some very healthy foods that can heal the gut and immune system and calm the nervous system with proper fats.

In our case, we had to do one step further than NT and do the Specific Carb Diet to eliminate all those foods which we couldn't digest fully. Although since I gradually got worse as my body got burdened by demands, I wonder if I did find NT earlier and committed wholly to it, it would have worked then.

cobluegirl

03-04-2006, 03:40 PM

waa...I don't think my cream cheese turned out either.....I give up...lol

Yooper

03-04-2006, 04:05 PM

So, I tasted my sauerkraut. I think it needs more time. But it is SOOO salty. I do not have a raw milk source so my only choice is the salt method. What can I do when i am ready to eat it to make it less overpowering?

carnelian

03-04-2006, 04:42 PM

Hi mamas.

I've just read a disturbing report on the methods of CLO distillation. You can read the article here (www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/codliver-manufacture.html). We take the Carlson's Super 1000 mg gel caps right now. Based on this article's description of the process tho I'm now concerned that the vitamin A & D in Carlson's might be synthetic. They state on the label that it IS from cod liver oil but this article is making me wonder. Also the WAP website no longer recommends this brand. I think mainly because it doesn't contain enough A. The ones we take give a good dose of both A & D (6000 for A and 750 for D) and the children's one too. But there is the possibility of switching to the Green Pasture 'Blue Ice" version which lots of folks here have given a thumbs up to in the cinnamon flavor. And also it was one of the ones recommended on WAP site. I've got an email into Carlson's asking them this question but haven't heard back yet. In the meantime I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and chuck the Carlson's and buy the Blue Ice. Not too thrilled about throwing that $ away but even less thrilled about the presence of synthetic A & D in our bodies.

Honestly sometimes tho I find it hard to keep straight all the (sometimes conflicting) info. Fruit is good, fruit has too much sugar. Raw veggies are loaded with enzymes, most veggies need to steamed lightly for easiest digestibility and bio-availability. And on and on.

Yooper, the kraut will probably need to sit in the fridge a few weeks for the saltiness to dissipate. I have reduced the salt in the kvass to 2 tsps and sometimes it's enough and other times it isn't and mold grows on it. I've used 2 tsps with the ginger carrots and gotten good results.

mountain mom

03-04-2006, 04:50 PM

artisticat

03-04-2006, 07:06 PM

nicolena

03-04-2006, 07:08 PM

welcome carnelian! i really hear what you're saying about kindness and working with one's body!

JaneS

03-04-2006, 07:12 PM

I do not have a raw milk source so my only choice is the salt method.

You can use whey from dripped yogurt as starter.

JaneS

03-04-2006, 07:19 PM

Still the childrens' snack situation can be tricky sometimes. I haven't figured out a graceful way around the junk so I am just clumsy and direct about it :lol.

I'm also interested in the acid/alkaline balance of foods taken in and am thinking that perhaps the next step will be addressing that balance in our diets. I'm beginning to learn which foods are acid and which alkaline.

:lol I love it re: clumsy and direct, what do you say exactly?

Last night I was having dinner with friends and one of them played a game with me, "I'll name the food and you tell me what's bad about it!" Well of course I had A LOT to say about everything and it went on for quite a long time, too funny.

I could have sworn NT said something about the acid/alkaline issue not translating to certain food properties in particular but the body as whole? Too lazy to walk downstairs to book for the second time tonight to check it out though. :innocent

I totally get the whole conflicting advice thing. Makes me CRAZY too :nut

JaneS

03-04-2006, 07:21 PM

Yea! I made my own coconut milk today. It was really easy and now I just can't wait to use it. I am wondering if I can use the leftover coconut in something like macaroons though. Most places just say to discard it. Does that mean not use it?

I think it says to discard b/c it's just lot of cellulose fiber. You can probably use it, it just won't act like regular coconut shreds b/c a lot of the oils and taste in it has been stripped out.

mamaMAMAma

03-04-2006, 07:37 PM

I would like to make the almond milk drink in the NT book but dd#1 is allergic to dairy. The recipe specifies whey... (with the other recipes I have added salt instead). Since we would prefer the almond milk to be sweet, I'm not sure quite what to do. Any advice?

lao80

03-04-2006, 07:49 PM

I like Larabars but they are pretty expensive and not NT. So, I spent about $20 on nuts and stuff. They were super easy to make. I have 4 dozen in my excalibur. That would have cost more then $70 plus I can use crispy nuts. I made cherry pie (my favorite), apple pie, banana cookie, and chocolate coconut chew.:D

memory maker

03-04-2006, 08:31 PM

I just got coconut oil for the first time. What are your favorite uses for it, what can it replace when cooking? thanks for any info on using it.

Oh, man if we keep up this pace we are going to have 30+ pages this month

cobluegirl

03-04-2006, 08:56 PM

Carey you can use CO in anything...I love it in biscuits...not NT but yummy...hehe...I also melt it and put it in shakes/smoothies or bake and fry with it....etc...

cobluegirl

03-04-2006, 08:57 PM

OT: ps. Does anyone know how to change the background colors?? when the board updated itself it booted my purple/blue colors..I don't like this tan/blue color....

cobluegirl

03-04-2006, 09:02 PM

nevermind..I just accidently found it....lol

gardenmommy

03-04-2006, 09:24 PM

Is there any way to make chicken noodle soup NT compatible? I had the strongest craving for it while I was sick this last week; when I felt human again, I roasted a chicken, made stock with the carcass, and then made the soup. I figured that had to be better than what comes out of a can!

we use coconut oil is most everything. There are a few things I don't care for it in, but it works well for lots of things.

MomInFlux

03-04-2006, 10:03 PM

Did any of you just tip-toe around NT before finally jumping in? I think that's where I'm at - nipping in at the edges but not quite committing. I took a mental leap closer to NT today when I realized the organic milk that DH bought is ultra-pasturized. I don't know why ultra-pasturization grosses me out so much more than regular pasturization, but it does. DH and I have been planning a mini apple orchard, and we have a report on growing apples in Southern California that refers to apples kept in cold storage as "zombies". That's what DH called the ultra-pasturized milk - "zombie milk". I had been thinking that at least even if I don't want to drink the pasturized organic milk, at least I could use it to make yogurt - but with this stuff, I can't even do that! I found a WP article that says you can't make kefir or yogurt with ultra-pasturized milk because it won't sustain life. Yuck.

I think I'm going to make a trip to the HFS tomorrow and get some organic veggies so that I can make ginger carrots and kimchi. Those are the two recipes in NT that I'm really drawn to. Best go get some yogurt draining so that I've got some whey...

newcastlemama

03-04-2006, 10:29 PM

Hi all. What is the book called? Nourishing Traditions? It sems like a cookbook when I looked it up on amazon. My best friend is doing this and I am curious about it. I am a vegetarian and very into whole foods. It sounds very interesting. Thanks! Jennifer

cobluegirl

03-04-2006, 11:30 PM

MomInFlux

yes..hehe..the NT class I took stated that you should take at least 2 years to get fully into NT or you would bail and become overwhelmed. I am still tiptoeing a lot..lol

newcastlemama yes the book is Nourishing Traditons. It is a cookbook but there is so much more info in the book about diet and health.

Yooper

03-05-2006, 07:50 AM

What kind of salt did you use?

Sea salt.

Yooper

03-05-2006, 07:52 AM

You can use whey from dripped yogurt as starter.

How do I get the whey seperate from the yogurt? Can I use pastuarized yogurt? That is all we can get right now.

mountain mom

03-05-2006, 08:18 AM

Yooper, was the sea salt refined or course, unrefined?

carnelian

03-05-2006, 09:02 AM

Yooper

03-05-2006, 09:47 AM

Yooper, was the sea salt refined or course, unrefined?

Refined. Course would probably have been better, eh? They were out at the co-op when I went last week. I figured refines sea was better than iodinized regular salt.

Yooper

03-05-2006, 09:53 AM

To make whey is easy. Just line a fine mesh sieve with several layers of cheesecloth and suspend it over a large bowl to catch the whey. Add a large container of plain full-fat yogurt (pasteurized is fine for making whey). Cover with a plate and leave on the counter for several hours then transfer to the fridge. I leave mine a full 24 hrs in the sieve then I gather the cheesecloth ends into a knot and suspend the now smaller ball of yogurt cheese with a wooden spoon over an empty blender container for another 24 hrs. The result is a delicious yogurt cream cheese and good amount of whey. Sometimes I blend in fresh dill right at the beginning for a dilled cheese.

Salt: lots of folks here like the Redmond's but we use this one (www.edenfoods.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=26_51&products_id=105365) and really like it.

Awesome. I will be doing that next time:) How much whey do you get out of a container of yogurt? And what do you do with the yogurt cheese? Do you use it like cream cheese?

So much to learn!

I am totally afraid of making stock. Going to wait a few months before I even think about actual meat. Dairy is hard enough! Anyone know of a good book with pictures that goes step by step on what to do with meat? It will bea while before I try anything, but I keep a running book wishlist so I know what to get when I get extra cash. I have never ever cooked any type of meat. I have no idea which parts are which, how to get skin off a chicken, how to clean it, how to cut it, nothing. I really mean nothing. None of my friends do either. Even my mom and MIL only know the "defrost a chicken breast" method. Writing this is making my skin crawl.....

Boadicea

03-05-2006, 09:54 AM

Refined. Course would probably have been better, eh? They were out at the co-op when I went last week. I figured refines sea was better than iodinized regular salt.
Sea salt is better than regular table salt, no question. With the refined, though, you need to use a lot less, IME. I know money is tight for you right now, so use what you've got and just reduce the amounts a bit until you get to a level you can live with. And as a few PP mentioned, let the current batch sit for awhile and it will reduce the salty taste. Or, you could make another batch with less salt, and cut it half/half with this batch.

This is a learning process! You'll get there, just don't get discouraged. Every little step you make is a step in the right direction.

(Personally I use Celtic Sea Salt, though I know some around here don't like it. You just have to experiment until you find what fits for you, which isn't always easy on a budget, I know.)

Boadicea

03-05-2006, 10:01 AM

Awesome. I will be doing that next time:) How much whey do you get out of a container of yogurt? And what do you do with the yogurt cheese? Do you use it like cream cheese?

So much to learn!

I am totally afraid of making stock. Going to wait a few months before I even think about actual meat. Dairy is hard enough! Anyone know of a good book with pictures that goes step by step on what to do with meat? It will bea while before I try anything, but I keep a running book wishlist so I know what to get when I get extra cash. I have never ever cooked any type of meat. I have no idea which parts are which, how to get skin off a chicken, how to clean it, how to cut it, nothing. I really mean nothing. None of my friends do either. Even my mom and MIL only know the "defrost a chicken breast" method. Writing this is making my skin crawl.....
The Complete Meat Cookbook by Bruce Aidells and Denis Kelly is one of my personal favorites. It is not written from an NT standpoint, per say, but it's not anti-fat like a lot of modern meat cookbooks tend to be. Also, you'll have to modify some of the recipes, such as ones that call for marinades made with soy sauce, but there are a lot of options for most every recipe. It does, however, cover EVERYTHING you want to know about meat, from choosing cuts, to how to cook each and every cut you could imagine, to very detailed instructions for getting the most flavor from the meat.

mountain mom

03-05-2006, 10:11 AM

Yooper

03-05-2006, 10:30 AM

The Complete Meat Cookbook by Bruce Aidells and Denis Kelly is one of my personal favorites. It is not written from an NT standpoint, per say, but it's not anti-fat like a lot of modern meat cookbooks tend to be. Also, you'll have to modify some of the recipes, such as ones that call for marinades made with soy sauce, but there are a lot of options for most every recipe. It does, however, cover EVERYTHING you want to know about meat, from choosing cuts, to how to cook each and every cut you could imagine, to very detailed instructions for getting the most flavor from the meat.

Thanks! I put it on my wish list. I am not so much worried about recipes, just the how-tos. I am very well versed in modifying recipes:)

Yooper

03-05-2006, 10:37 AM

I use Celtic Sea Salt unrefined course for all the ferments otherwise they get really salty and almost burn your lips. If you don't want to get the unrefined I would just use a little whey to start the ferment. I also use old ferment juice from other batches but thats a bit risky.

I remember the first time I made stock. I had my Mom help me, well do most of it, and I watched. The next time was easier, and so on.

Good luck!!

(I still have a hard time making bison stock)

Thanks for the tips. I need to start a running notebook or something to keep track of everything I learn.

I think the kraut will be fine if I just keep it in the fridge for a while. I don't need it right away. I also made Chorido and it was not as salty. Not sure why. But I am glad because we are using it tonight on the BB Tostadas.....

We made tabouli and yogurt-cucumbers last night. We ate that with boxed falafel (I know that is not so good but I have a ton of it and need to use it up). Everyone loved it. Dh who hates cucumbers AND tabouli ate two servings! So much for leftovers..... It was all so good! I am getting used to the dairy. Dd has a cold right now so it might be related to that, but I have noticed phlem in my throat since re-introducing dairy. I forgot that it used to happen. My dad was the same way. I am hoping it goes away.....

Rosie_Kate

03-05-2006, 02:30 PM

Is there any way to make chicken noodle soup NT compatible?

This site has a recipe for sourdough egg noodles. http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/sourdough_egg_noodles.html (http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/sourdough_egg_noodles.html)
I had to alter the recipe a little, however, because it's really too much liquid. I used the full 6 egg yolks, and reduced the whey.

They're very, very yummy! Some of them I filled like the recipe, and some I cut iinto strips for chicken noodle soup, and some I dried (in twisted strips). Oh, wonderful, so wonderful! If you've never made pasta before, it may help to read up on it a bit. I read Joy of Cooking's section on making pasta to learn the tricks (like, knead the dough a lot!).

Rosie_Kate

03-05-2006, 02:35 PM

Yea! I made my own coconut milk today. It was really easy and now I just can't wait to use it.

I tried that the other day... but I was very upset whe the coconut I bought was spoiled! :irked: When I poked the end to let out the water, it hissed sour ilk at me, and then drained sour, slimey water! Then I counldn't get it open (it was supposed to be an "easy open" coconut, whatever that means) so I ended up going outside and throwing it on the concrete porch a few times. That worked... :p The flesh was slimey and tasted like paint thinner! So much for that experiment. I ended up using some dried, shredded coconut for my coconut milk, but I think it would have been way better with fresh!

mama-a-llama

03-05-2006, 03:37 PM

I'm usually a lurker. I'm trying to move in the direction of NT, and I was starting to soak my oatmeal. Now I'm going off dairy for a bit to see if it helps ds's reflux. So how am I supposed to soak without whey?
Also, anyone know if you can culture coconut milk (canned) with probiotic capsules as discussed on the Power of Probiotics thread? At least this is pushing me into culturing my own instead of eating store bought.

gardenmommy

03-05-2006, 06:51 PM

Thanks, rosie kate. I will follow that link when I have more than a few minutes to string together.

Yooper, I am a reformed veg., and it's taken me over a year to do what I'm doing now. I jumped in and started making lamb stew in my crockpot once a week. I wouldn't suggest that, but I was so desperate to see change that I couldn't wait for it by trying a slower method of introduction first. The first several times I prepared a meat dinner, I was nearly sick to my stomach, and only could eat maybe two or three bites. However, it did get easier, and seeing the difference in myself and my children has only fueled my resolve to continue down this path.

If you are a bit queasy about beef, try making something with chicken. You get a lot of bang for your buck, and it's not that difficult. Plus, if you can get there, you will have some delicious stock to either drink or use in soup. It's pretty easy to roast a chicken (no cutting or anything, you do it whole, unlike most cuts of beef); then you can use the carcass for stock.

I completely agree with PPs, though. In order to effect the longest-lasting change, you need to take baby steps. One thing at a time.

Hibou

03-05-2006, 09:17 PM

2babybees

03-06-2006, 04:15 AM

I tried the cereal recipe that worldshakerz posted somewhere near the beginning of this thread, and I just wanted to say that it turned out great! I broke it up into chunks before it had completely dried because the middle was damp and the outside was getting brown, then I put the pieces back in the oven to dry a little longer. The kids loved it.

I made it too over the weekend. It smelled wonderful baking, I had to restrain myself:lol . Dp likes it and I am hoping it passes the kiddos test this morning! Thanks!

mama2j&t

03-06-2006, 07:28 AM

I made 2 NT recipes!!

First I made hummus, after soaking the garbanzo beans according to the NT method. I love hummus, but it affects me big time (if you know what I mean). I eat a lot of beans but for some reason garbanzo beans really give me trouble. Of course I have never prepared them properly. This hummus I made didn't impact me at all!!!! I soaked the beans for 24 hours in whey and then simmered for 6 hours. I can't believe the difference it made. I am going to start soaking all of my beans. So here is my question:

Can I freeze beans after they are soaked and cooked to use in recipes later?

This morning I made pancakes for my boys. They usually eat 1/2 white flour 1/2 wheat flour pancakes. This time I had soaked wheat flour overnight in yogurt and then used the NT recipe. They ate them right up :) I was a little suprised because they are rather picky but apparently they were yummy!!

Thanks for letting me share :D

artisticat

03-06-2006, 08:35 AM

I made the banana bread last week and it turned out wonderful. I don't remember if someone from this list posted it or not but thought I would share. Instead of doing all yogurt or buttermilk I did a mixture of yogurt, buttermilk from making cultered butter, and milk and whey. I left it for around maybe 16 hours then added the other ingredients. It was so fluffy and rising as I poured it into the pan.

I've made it a couple other times with various results, but I think this was the best one yet. Oh and I also used the whole wheat graham flour from Bob's Red Mill if that made a difference.

Now I am off to start (finally) the SCD diet to try and heal our (DD and I) yeast issues.

Oh and Jane thanks for the reply to my coconut question. I will throw it out I guess.

carnelian

03-06-2006, 08:49 AM

Mama-a-llama you can soak the oats in lemon juice or in a pinch apple cider vinegar. You basically just want an acidic environment to break down the phytates in the grain.

Beans can be frozen. When we were doing more grains last year i tried the banana bread with disappointing results so it's good to hear about it working for someone.

Brookesmom

03-06-2006, 09:25 AM

Wow, this thread is so inspirational and motivating for me!

Mama-a-llama, My baby seems dairy intolerant too just like DD was, so I've given up dairy again for a while. I soak my oats water and a teaspoon of miso by South River Miso. In their "The Little Book of Miso Recipes" it says "many preindustrialized peoples fermented their grains to gain the most energy and nutritional strength from them". They list Nourishing Traditions and Nutritional and Physical Degeneration in the back of their booklet for suggested reading too. :thumb They're at http://southrivermiso.com FYI and the miso and their miso tamari is awesome and artisanal.

On another note, I found the Ezekiel 4:9 cereals are made from sprouted wheat and dried at low temps with a "Makers Diet" sticker on the front. I have them on hand for when I've forgotten to soak oats.

-Kelly

I'm usually a lurker. I'm trying to move in the direction of NT, and I was starting to soak my oatmeal. Now I'm going off dairy for a bit to see if it helps ds's reflux. So how am I supposed to soak without whey?

Brookesmom

03-06-2006, 09:42 AM

I can't wait to try the granola/cereal recipe as well. I need to crack, soak and dry all the almonds and brazil nuts I bought first, and maybe add in some walnuts. Can't wait!

I can't remember who said they were going to the WAPF Denver conference over the weekend, I can't wait to hear about it. I was dying to go but it was just too much with the baby and DH being busy with work. If I lived a little closer maybe...

-Kelly

Brisen

03-06-2006, 11:17 AM

About saurkraut and saltiness --

I make mine with 4 tsp salt per med head of cabbage, packed in a quart sized jar. I let it sit in a warm cupboard for 2-4 weeks, and then kept it in a cool basement for... 4 months now. I didn't find my saurkraut salty after 3 weeks, but other things were; they have mellowed out a bit over the months.

Gale Force

03-06-2006, 11:38 AM

Beans
Freezing is fine, texture is a bit off, but not by much/ The orginal soaking and cooking breaks down the phytic acid for the most part and once it's broken down, it's broken down.

Oatmeal
Like other grains, oatmeal has phytic acid, but it also has low levels of phytase, the enzyme that breaks down the phytic acid. Soaking does break down a bit, but really all bets are off on plain oatmeal. Sorry ladies. If you mix oats with another grain high in phytase (wheat, rye), you're good to go. We are oatmeal lovers around here so I was disappointed to learn this about oatmeal.

Gale Force

03-06-2006, 11:42 AM

Frozen milk and cream

Apparently I a not very quick and only just noticed that I can get decent prices at Organic Pastures if I go pick up the goods.

Local pick-up (http://www.organicpastures.com/ordernow/)

The farm is about 2 hours away in Fresno, but that's where my chiropractors are, so I usually find myself there once a month or every six weeks.

If I buy in bulk and freeze, what would you all think about freezing cream and later defrosting for butter. I figure frozen milk defrosted for kefir would be fine.

TopazBlueMama

03-06-2006, 11:46 AM

Gale Force, do you have a link about the oatmeal?

Gale Force

03-06-2006, 11:54 AM

Gale Force, do you have a link about the oatmeal?

No, sorry. But there is a great book called Phytates in Cereal Grains and Legumes with incredible amounts of data on phytates. I don't know that it would be available in county libraries, but certainly in university libraries. I'm working on a phytate section in my book which has led me to all of this.

TopazBlueMama

03-06-2006, 11:59 AM

So are you saying just doing a mix of oats and wheat would fix the problem? Just soaking them in the same bowl together?

Gale Force

03-06-2006, 12:01 PM

So are you saying just doing a mix of oats and wheat would fix the problem? Just soaking them in the same bowl together?

Yep. It's also best to have them ground, that is, not oat groats and wheat berries.

Gale Force

03-06-2006, 12:22 PM

Give me about two weeks and I'll post a proper summary. You ladies will find this very interesting -- there are lots of differences across grains. I'm still absorbing it.

Brisen

03-06-2006, 02:56 PM

If I buy in bulk and freeze, what would you all think about freezing cream and later defrosting for butter. I figure frozen milk defrosted for kefir would be fine.

I would make it into butter first, then freeze, but that's only because I have only tried to freeze butter, and I know it works.

Brisen

03-06-2006, 02:59 PM

Gale Force -- is it only phytase that breaks down phytates? Does the acid environment only help the phytase, or does it break things down separately (if that makes sense)?

Brookesmom

03-06-2006, 03:07 PM

Amanda,

If you are only a couple hours from Organic Pastures, can't you just buy the butter (and cream and milk) unfrozen at all the Whole Foods and other HFS in California? Or do you get an even better deal buying direct at the farm? I wish we didn't leave CA. :(

That's really interesting about the grains. I can't wait 'til your book comes out. :thumb

-Kelly

toraji

03-06-2006, 03:35 PM

Oatmeal
Like other grains, oatmeal has phytic acid, but it also has low levels of phytase, the enzyme that breaks down the phytic acid. Soaking does break down a bit, but really all bets are off on plain oatmeal. Sorry ladies. If you mix oats with another grain high in phytase (wheat, rye), you're good to go. We are oatmeal lovers around here so I was disappointed to learn this about oatmeal.I think I read this somewhere too, but thought that it was due to the processing of most oatmeal (rolling/flaking) and then bagging it which would cause the phytase to break down, as opposed to fresh grinding it? I could be wrong. Also, if you were soaking in whey, wouldn't the lacto-ferment help break it down (even if you were using pre-rolled/flaked oats?).

lao80

03-06-2006, 03:44 PM

At OP a gallon of milk is like $8 at Whole Foods it is $16.

Gale Force

03-06-2006, 04:31 PM

I think I read this somewhere too, but thought that it was due to the processing of most oatmeal (rolling/flaking) and then bagging it which would cause the phytase to break down, as opposed to fresh grinding it? I could be wrong. Also, if you were soaking in whey, wouldn't the lacto-ferment help break it down (even if you were using pre-rolled/flaked oats?).

toraji -- I don't know for certain but I am looking at data cited from another source I have not yet found that did experiments with different grains and it's just harder to break down oatmeal because of the lower phytase. I don't think I've seen experimental data using whey versus lemon juice or some other acidic substance, but there is still a big hurdle to cross with oatmeal. It's the same with soy -- you have to ferment it and let it sit for something like 2 weeks before any reasonable amount of phytates are reduced. It's just a big hurdle.

Brisen -- yes, it's the acid environment and the warmer temperature that helps activate the phytase that breaks down the phytic acid.

And, yep, Lindsey is right that the milk direct from the dairy is about 1/2 retail.

So make some mondo batches of butter?

Brookesmom

03-06-2006, 05:16 PM

At OP a gallon of milk is like $8 at Whole Foods it is $16.

Oh yeah, those $8.00 bottles at WF are HALF gallons LOL!
Wow, 8/gallon is a great price!

TopazBlueMama

03-06-2006, 06:04 PM

I'm a happy girl right now. I've been wanting a dehydrator for ages now, but $$. I just scored an excalibur (9 tray) for twenty dollars! :love I'm praying it works well. I'm so excited, I have so many plans for some raw healthy goodies and such.

Panserbjørne

03-06-2006, 06:16 PM

I AM SO JEALOUS. I HAVE BEEN DREAMING ABOUT AN EXCALIBUR! Where did you get it?

TopazBlueMama

03-06-2006, 06:22 PM

:D I feel so blessed, these things never work out for me! It was listed on craigslist. I was getting so close to just forking out the $200 for a new one, too. Even though that would be totally irrational for us right now.

Brookesmom

03-06-2006, 08:21 PM

I was just thinking a dehydrator would make a lot more sense than running the oven for 12-24 hours to dry nuts and for lots of other things... Craigslist just added our city- I'm definitely going to have to check for one. Is Excalibur the best?

lao80

03-06-2006, 08:40 PM

Yah, they're the best. I got mine of Craigslist, too. I think I paid $120 and it was pretty new.

memory maker

03-07-2006, 07:26 AM

question about making yogurt
I am trying to figure out where to get my heat from so that I can keep the yogurt warm. My pilot light on my gas stove only gets up to about 80 degrees, the low setting of my crock pot gets up to 130 degrees, the oven on warm setting is 120 degrees. We dont have a light in our oven to add a light bulb to keep it warm. Is there any other way to easily do this?

Brisen

03-07-2006, 08:00 AM

Yoghurt -- you can use a cooler with hot water; if you can find a fish tank heater, they have a thermostat on them, and should be able to handle enough water for yoghurt, unless you are making a huge batch. I use hot water bottles and towels packed around the yoghurt in a cooler, but I have to refill them a few times to maintain the heat (or at least I think I do -- I don't have a thermometer, so I am just guessing).

You can also try sitting the jar in a pot of hot water on the stove, and turning the burner on briefly now and then to maintain the temp. You can use a candy thermometer to check the water temp this way, but don't forget to turn the stove on now and then... and don't get distracted and forget to turn it off, either :o

jessicaSAR

03-07-2006, 08:04 AM

nicolena

03-07-2006, 08:54 AM

i am so behind on the thread again! dh hates that i run the oven all the time too--tho he LOVES his crispy peanuts. i'm going to check our craigslist, and maybe ebay. good to know that excalibur is "the best."

i am trying to slow down, tho, after reading here that you "should" take 2 years so as not to become overwhelmed (or broke).

i cooked my first potroast. it was incredible! soaked in buttermilk and cooked in a new le creuset pot i got at marshall's. man that thing cleaned easily. we are slowly updated our cookery.

but i just wanted to post to say hi; that i am insane and ordered milk from green pastures (i'm on the east coast); and that my local raw milk should start flowing 3/18. i am so freakin' excited.

anybody else finding they need to eat more food than they used to? or are my girls having a growth spurt?

JaneS--I just saw your post from a few days ago! Yep, Just Dairy. I'm so excited! Is there anything else I should get from the farm? I asked about eggs and butter. But Organic Valley eggs have been BEAUTIFUL lately. I'm going through 6/day at least. Now I have to see about joining a WAP group.... I sent away that card in that back of NT;0. i am such a dork--i LOVE this stuff!

(eta about the post i just read)

provocativa

03-07-2006, 10:24 AM

Yogurt help: I just posted a 'NT yogurt help question', JaneS answered, and Xenabyte gives good directions in thread 410576 (heating pad included). After reading all the different ways, I'm going to try my dehydrator, since the oven is unreliable, and I am unreliable, too, for cycling the stove/oven/slow-cooker on and off properly. My husband bought me a cheapie dehydrator for my birthday, and it works fine. But I don't like food drying on plastic, so I'm going to replace the plastic racks with food-safe metal somehow.

JaneS

03-07-2006, 12:59 PM

JaneS--I just saw your post from a few days ago! Yep, Just Dairy. I'm so excited! Is there anything else I should get from the farm? I asked about eggs and butter. But Organic Valley eggs have been BEAUTIFUL lately. I'm going through 6/day at least.

The eggs are wonderful, the hardest shells you've ever experienced. The butter is cultured, so it's a bit cheesey tasting, which I like, but puts some other people off. It's not available every week, and it's called "Berkshire Cheese" on the web and for ordering b/c of legal issues which I don't really understand! Around me, Star Market has the best price on Kerrygold butter which is grass fed, in with the rest of butter display. Stop & Shop carries it too, its in cheese bins there. The farmstead cheese is good too and reasonable ($6.90/lb)

carnelian

03-07-2006, 01:12 PM

I find grassfed butter to be very cheesy. It took me quite awhile to get used to it. It's more like a food than a spread. So different than the standard butter.

mama-a-llama

03-07-2006, 04:50 PM

So I got some chicken livers, and was thinking about making pate. How long would I expect it to be good in the refrig? Just trying to decide whether to freeze some livers for later, or make the whole batch and eat it over a week.

Worldshakerz

03-07-2006, 05:10 PM

Worldshakerz - This sounds so yummy, but I'd be concerned that the hot water mixed with the oatmeal and yoghurt would actually kill the good bacteria in the yoghurt, thus not neutralizing the phytates. What do you think? I'll try it with room temp water and hope it comes out cuz it sounds so yummy! Thanks for the recipie.

Yeah, what you say does make sense about the hot water. This is someone's recipe I got from the local WAP chapter. I'd say room temp water would be better too. Maybe she meant to write warm water, like it says in NT for soaking oatmeal.

tayndrewsmama

03-07-2006, 05:15 PM

Do any of you have the Perfect Pickler? I am looking for some feedback from anyone who has used it.

Neldavi

03-07-2006, 06:12 PM

What about a heating pad? Would that work for yogurt? I am having the same problem. I made it in my oven on warm, but I think it was a little too warm. The oven is electric, and the light does not stay on so it is not warm enough by itself.

Yeah, this is how I've always done mine and it always turns out great. Heating pad on low and wrap the jar up in a bunch of towels.

2babybees

03-07-2006, 08:01 PM

Yeah, what you say does make sense about the hot water. This is someone's recipe I got from the local WAP chapter. I'd say room temp water would be better too. Maybe she meant to write warm water, like it says in NT for soaking oatmeal.

I did it with warm water and it turned out fine...probably would with room temp too...It has turned into a hit here. I am going to need to make a new back again this weekend.

Oregonicmama

03-08-2006, 01:30 AM

Subbing

Yooper

03-08-2006, 08:13 AM

More NT Qs:)

1. Lots of the recipes in the NT book call for Piima cream or the other kind (cannot remember the name right now). I cannot make either since I do not have those cultures and cannot get whole raw milk (I did scroe some raw milk but the cream has been skimmed off). What would be a good replacement? Organic sour cream?

2. I travelled a great distance yesterday to get some raw dairy products. She gave me something called Viili cream (but she was pronouncing it vilia or filia cream). It tastes and looks sort of like runny yogurt. She says I can take 1/4 cup of it and mix it into 1 quart of the skimmed milk she gave me and leave it out for 24-26 hours to make more. What the heck is this stuff? Ayone heard of it? What else can I do with it?

3. So now that I have a few raw milk products (skimmed milk and cheese) doea that mean cooking with them would be like pastuerizing them? Can I make pudding with them? Is mixing cheese into a soup or casserole going to make it no longer "raw"? I have that same question with fermented veggies. I have a great sauce I would make with sauerkraut but am not sure if heating it bad.

4. I cannot get the raw milk on a regular basis (her cows and goats are not producing enough to sell extra), is it better to:

-skip the dairy altogether
-buy organic pastaurized products
-buy raw but not organic
-stick to only organic past. yogurt. cultured butter, and kefir (lady said those are still "raw" because of cultures)

5. Is cultured butter better than regular? If yes, why? I find it to be so hard that it is difficult to work with.

6. Is cottage cheese good for you? I never see it mentioned anywhere but it is one of the few dairy products I actually liked before going vegan.

7. Where on earth do you all get cream? All of the raw sources I have talked to only sell the milk after they take off the cream. The co-op does not even sell "cream", just ultra pastuarized "creamer" for coffee.

Sorry for all of the Qs. I seem to know less the more I learn.

Yooper

03-08-2006, 08:22 AM

How long am I going to feel bad? I know it has only been 1.5 weeks since we introduced dairy and eggs into our formerly vegan diet. I have felt REALLY crappy ever since. I have a very phlemgy throat, have very sapped energy, and feel like I am on the verge of the flu or something. On the up side, I have been sleeping better than I have in over a year which is the reason I even started looking into NT to begin with. But despite all of this great sleep, I feel so tired. I am a bartender and being this low in energy is making me miserable at work, not to mention chasing my 2.5 yo around. Dd and dh are fine with the switch. Dd is lapping up yogurt as I type. I have not been eating very large amounts. So far is 1.5 weeks I have had 2 eggs, a little cultured butter, a little raw cheese, and a little organic yogurt. EXCEPT yesterday we travelled to a raw farm and the woman was so kind and showed me all of her stuff and tricks. She also served up heaping bowls and glasses of many different dairy products. I was so grateful for her to help me out but I was very sick feeling when we left. I even threw up a couple of times last night. I ate more dairy yesterday than everything I have had in the last 1.5 weeks times 10. Today all of my symptoms listed above are amplified suggesting that it is indeed the dairy that is getting to me.

Any former vegans go through this? Is this normal? Until yesterday I was only having very tiny amounts here and there. I think I was lactose inotlerant before I went vegan so I have been very careful to stay away from straight up milk or ice cream (the big culprits before). My work schedule is not going to be letting up any time soon and I am tempted to run back to veganism. How long should I stick it out? (Dd and dh will not be going back regardless).

Yooper

03-08-2006, 08:23 AM

Anyone know about the ethics of Organic Valley? I saw their article in Mother Earth News but it did not really address how the farms treat their animals or if they are grain fed. Anyone know?

Ruthla

03-08-2006, 08:53 AM

Hmmm Yooper- it sounds like the dairy isn't agreeing with you. Maybe cut out all dairy but keep the eggs in your diet to see if that helps?

It's also possible that your body is "making up" for all the lost sleep of the past year or so, and you'll feel more energetic once you've done the extra sleeping that you need. In that case, I'd still recomend slowing down the process so that you can function while it's going on!

2babybees

03-08-2006, 09:14 AM

mountain mom

03-08-2006, 09:18 AM

If you are having these type of symptoms I would say that the dairy is not agreeing with you. Especially the digestive upset and immune suppression symptoms. These are big red flags.

We don't eat much dairy in our house. Only the 24 hour yogurt I make from pasterized, non homogenized milk. Its illegal in Canada to get raw milk unless you rent/lease/buy a cow/goat. So the closest I can find is umhomogenized, low heat pasterized cow milk. I have made the yogurt from raw milk a few times (trying to be vague), and it was less mucous forming. Occasionally we have raw milk gouda. We don't eat unfermented dairy at all.

Okay I will attempt to answer your questions...
1. Lots of the recipes in the NT book call for Piima cream or the other kind (cannot remember the name right now). I cannot make either since I do not have those cultures and cannot get whole raw milk (I did scroe some raw milk but the cream has been skimmed off). What would be a good replacement? Organic sour cream?
I have made a few of the recipes with whole milk 24 hour yogurt.

2. I travelled a great distance yesterday to get some raw dairy products. She gave me something called Viili cream (but she was pronouncing it vilia or filia cream). It tastes and looks sort of like runny yogurt. She says I can take 1/4 cup of it and mix it into 1 quart of the skimmed milk she gave me and leave it out for 24-26 hours to make more. What the heck is this stuff? Ayone heard of it? What else can I do with it? I think its a Finnish culture similiar to buttermilk. Here is a link http://www.gemcultures.com/dairy_cultures.htm

3. So now that I have a few raw milk products (skimmed milk and cheese) doea that mean cooking with them would be like pastuerizing them? Can I make pudding with them? Is mixing cheese into a soup or casserole going to make it no longer "raw"? I have that same question with fermented veggies. I have a great sauce I would make with sauerkraut but am not sure if heating it bad.
I always add the ferments in after the meal is prepared. I don't heat them but I do stir in Craut into soups and serve. I don't eat unfermented dairy as I find it too mucous forming for me so I always make yogurt or kefir from milk.

4. I cannot get the raw milk on a regular basis (her cows and goats are not producing enough to sell extra), is it better to:

-skip the dairy altogether
-buy organic pastaurized products
-buy raw but not organic
-stick to only organic past. yogurt. cultured butter, and kefir (lady said those are still "raw" because of cultures)
I strongly suggest that you only have organic dairy. Even if its pasterized. Unless you can visit the farm and see the facilities and animals and methods of the raw milk, unorganic farm. I would want to see that first hand. Organic certification is there to protect the consumer. Having said that some organic farms are better than others. I would stick with fermented dairy from organic farms that have good reputations.

5. Is cultured butter better than regular? If yes, why? I find it to be so hard that it is difficult to work with. I think it is simply because it is fermented thus making digestion easier. (amoung many other attributes but this is the first that comes to my mind). What part of using CB is hard for you?

6. Is cottage cheese good for you? I never see it mentioned anywhere but it is one of the few dairy products I actually liked before going vegan. Yes, its fermented (cultured)

7. Where on earth do you all get cream? All of the raw sources I have talked to only sell the milk after they take off the cream. The co-op does not even sell "cream", just ultra pastuarized "creamer" for coffee.
We are lucky to have a local farmer who supplies it. It isn't raw but its the thick creme. I don't ever use it though.

Hope this helps a little!

yitlan

03-08-2006, 09:29 AM

Just a short note, but I was just at the WAPF western conference in Denver. Mark MacAfee of Organic Pastures spoke and someone asked, "what if you can only get pasteurized milk?" He said that culturing it will really help b/c it reintroduces bacteria and undoes a little of what the pasteurizing does. So, just wanted to pass that along to those who are debating. Also, many people there who couldn't get raw milk aimed for non-homogonized. A LOT of damage is done in that process, so it's a good compromise.

provocativa

03-08-2006, 09:59 AM

Making creme fraiche is easier, you don't need the specific piima cream starter. Restaurants do it with their scary milk, and sour cream, and culture it for 24 hours at room temp. Fallon gives directions, but google it to compare.
Has anyone followed up on the Vitamin A in Carlson's CLO? I'm pg and taking it, I don't want to stop, I feel much better since I started it.

cobluegirl

03-08-2006, 11:12 AM

Ruthla

03-08-2006, 04:16 PM

Speaking of milk...my raw source has fallen through...Which is better NT-wise?

1. pasturized, non-homogenized whole milk non organic
2. pasturized, homogenized whole milk non-organic

I am waffling between the two...
How "non organic" is it? Are they basically following organic farming practices but haven't gotten the official "organic seal of approval?" Are they ingesting some pesticides/herbicides in their feed but generally well treated, not given antibiotics arbitrarily, etc?

carnelian

03-08-2006, 04:25 PM

2babybees

03-08-2006, 05:27 PM

2babybees that's a tough call. How much are you using dairy? What are you using it for? If it's just for drinking and using on oats etc what about making your own almond milk? There's a great recipe in NT.

The non-homogenized I found at the health food store. It is in the glass bottles, from a local dairy(www.calderdairy.com) that is about 90 minutes away. Their info site says they have 90 cows on property that supply most of their milk. They say, "All of our cows are fed a high quality, home grown forage and grain diet with lots of T.L.C. added." Not quite sure what that means. I should e-mail them. What questions should I ask specifically?

I've tried the nut milks and the kids are just not keen on them. I also want to start making yogurt and want real milk persay.

Gale Force

03-08-2006, 06:31 PM

That dairy looks like a must-visit 2babybees. Oh, I miss Ann Arbor.

You could ask how much grass they get, how many cows to an acre (and maybe someone knows what this will mean :lol ). But it looks like a pretty good place.

Definitely, don't get homogenized milk. I've used a lot of pasteurized milk in the past but we're moving to all raw and cutting back on the amount since it could pay for college otherwise.:blush

Gale Force

03-08-2006, 06:31 PM

double post
:bag:

DevaMajka

03-08-2006, 07:25 PM

Speaking of milk...my raw source has fallen through...Which is better NT-wise?

1. pasturized, non-homogenized whole milk non organic
2. pasturized, homogenized whole milk non-organic

I am waffling between the two...

tough one- I'm torn on that too.
On one hand, I think homogenized milk is very bad. On the other hand, ethics play a big part in my thinking on animal products.
I got some non-homogenized milk in a glass container from a hfs. It's not organic, but it says - no hormones, no pesticides, etc... So...health wise, I'd go with non-homogenized and mostly-organic-but-not-certified kwim?
I emailed and asked if the cows were pastured, and haven't heard back...

Boadicea

03-08-2006, 07:52 PM

Does anyone else see other people purchasing "food" (and I use that term loosely :eyesroll) in the store and just have the nearly uncontrollable urge to grab them and say, "Do you have ANY IDEA how bad that is for your body?!?!?! WHAT are you thinking? Eat real food, from real plants and real animals raised on real soil and real sunshine and real food themselves!"

;)

/end rant

yitlan

03-08-2006, 08:02 PM

Yes, totally. But I know saying anything like that wouldn't be taken as generous or concerned!

Boadicea

03-08-2006, 08:08 PM

Yeah, the only thing that stops me is the thought that DH would be rather upset if he had to come bail me out of jail because I accosted someone in the grocery store. :lol

Brookesmom

03-08-2006, 08:20 PM

:nod Oh yes, definitely. Especially when there are kids being fed.

Amanda, my goal in life is to move back to Ann Arbor! (well, my short term goal at least, LOL.) I even put in an order to Zingermans.com today. I wonder how their country french sourdough will taste after 2 day delivery... I just had to have some. :o

-Kelly

cobluegirl

03-08-2006, 10:26 PM

artisticat

03-09-2006, 06:41 AM

Baby2bees, I know it is a long way, but I get raw milk from a farm in St. John's South of Lansing. I think there might be some milk groups ffrom the Detroit area. If you are really wanting raw milk this is an option, you could call the farm and ask if they have customers from your area, then you don't have to make the trip every week. It is a 1 and 1/2 hour drive roundtrip for me, so I go every 2 weeks and think it is so worth it. PM me if you are interested.

Geez, I am just wondering why you all want to move back to Michigan?! I am trying to get out of here! THis has been the worst winter!!! (of course I live on dirt roads that are horrible and a small town that I hate. Never been to Ann Arbor though, so can't compare. If I do end up stayin g in Michigan it is one area on my list though along with West Michigan. Right now I live in conventional farming central, flat farm lands with tons of chemicals :( and sorry to say my father is one of them. He's heard it from my brother and I for years though:lol

Yooper

03-09-2006, 06:46 AM

3. So now that I have a few raw milk products (skimmed milk and cheese) doea that mean cooking with them would be like pastuerizing them? Can I make pudding with them? Is mixing cheese into a soup or casserole going to make it no longer "raw"? I have that same question with fermented veggies. I have a great sauce I would make with sauerkraut but am not sure if heating it bad.
I always add the ferments in after the meal is prepared. I don't heat them but I do stir in Craut into soups and serve. I don't eat unfermented dairy as I find it too mucous forming for me so I always make yogurt or kefir from milk.

!

Thanks for the help!

What about melting raw cheese? Like cheese sandwiches or in quiche? Does that undo the good of raw?

nicolena

03-09-2006, 07:17 AM

Does anyone else see other people purchasing "food" (and I use that term loosely ) in the store and just have the nearly uncontrollable urge to grab them and say, "Do you have ANY IDEA how bad that is for your body?!?!?! WHAT are you thinking? Eat real food, from real plants and real animals raised on real soil and real sunshine and real food themselves!"

me too! i was totally critiquing all the sugar in the cart in the guy behind me yesterdat (i had sprouts and the tomatoes i needed for making pizza, so he was probably judging me). plus, when i saw the new print ad for wheat thins "with whole grains" i got so angry. those things also have hfcs in them (i discovered last year when trying to clean the pantry of hfcs). i used to love them. and triscuits. sigh.

actually, i don't miss them.

my sister jokes--"she won't eat that because it's POISON!" but she likes what i cook;).

mountain mom

03-09-2006, 08:02 AM

Thanks for the help!

What about melting raw cheese? Like cheese sandwiches or in quiche? Does that undo the good of raw?

Occasionally we make grilled cheese with raw cheese but the texture isn't as good as when its raw. I shred cheese to put on top of chilli and soup and add in as I serve. I also shred cheese for omelettes but again I add it last after the food is off the heat. So I guess I am 'passive' heating! ;)

provocativa

03-09-2006, 08:05 AM

I have nuts in my dehydrator that aren't getting crispy. They've been in there almost 24 hours. They were on 105 deg. because that's what my dehydrator recommended. I figured lower temp would preserve more enzymes etc. My walnuts and pepitas 2 days ago worked fine, these are cashews and almonds which I soaked overnight, the others only soaked for 7 hours. What temp do you experts use?

yitlan

03-09-2006, 09:25 AM

Thanks for the help!

What about melting raw cheese? Like cheese sandwiches or in quiche? Does that undo the good of raw?

It will kill bacteria. In my WAPF chapter and buying co-op we asked our source (one of the WAP shopping guide suggestions) about this and that is what they said. I forget what the temp is. Still, with our co-op it's the same price as organic cheese. But I do save it for times it won't be heated too high.

nicolena

03-10-2006, 06:43 AM

JaneS, anyone else using JustDairy--did you see all the stuff they are now offering? have they always had that much stuff? i am so excited. is the beef pasture fed--i can't tell. i don't even know what to order. do i need colostrum? i bet it's pretty expensive. i'd still rather make my own stock and fermented products, but i wounder if it will be cheaper to use their stock. do you have any inside info?

Here's what they'll have:

Fiddler's Bread (Flax n' Pumpkin seed and Cinnimon Raisin)
Martin Organics Products
Milk (gallon) your choice of Just Dairy dairies
Milk (1/2 gallon) from Rocky Acres
Skim Milk from Ardent Arts
Cream (pint)
Cream (quart)
Cream (Gallon)
Sour Cream
Butter (lb.)
Butter (wrapped, lb)
Ice Cream (2qt)
Cheese (1 lb.)
Cheese (5 lb.)
Cottage Cheese (pint)
Whey (pint)
Whey (quart)
Buttermilk (pint)
Buttermilk (1/2 Gallon)
Buttermilk (Gallon)
Cultured Buttermilk (Gallon)
Kefir (pint)
Kefir (quart)
Kvass (2-liter)
Colostrum (1st milk. qt)
Colostrum (> 1st milk, qt)
Eggs (dozen)
Yogurt (quart)
Cream Yogurt (quart)
Lard
Ground beef
Milk fed Pork (ground)
Bacon
Pork sausage
Beef and Pork Franks
Sliced Ham
Beef Stock (quart)
Chicken Stock (quart)
Beef Steaks (lb.) any
Dressed Turkeys half or whole (lb.)
Beef Sticks/Jerky
Dressed Broiler Chickens preordered (soy feed)
Beef or Pork halves or quarters
Pepperjack Cheese
Baby Swiss
Cheddar
FRESH, Never frozen beef, pork, poultry (not always available)

Boadicea

03-10-2006, 07:02 AM

Wow, nicolena, that's quite a list! I'm jealous that you have all of that available to you in one place.

Yooper

03-10-2006, 07:24 AM

I am SOOOO jealous! It seems like to find every little thing I have to spend hours hunting down a source.....

toraji

03-11-2006, 11:56 AM

bumping....

also, does anyone have a question that didn't get answered already? Seems like this thread moves so quickly that it's easy to lose track.

Welcome to all the newbies!

Boadicea

03-11-2006, 03:40 PM

I have a (new) question, actually. :) Can I mix soup bones to make stock? I ask because I have a few beef bones left from my last co-op shipment, but not enough to make stock. I do, however, have quite a few buffalo bones, including some meat-on shank and a foot. So do you think it would taste really funky if I mix the beef and buffalo bones to make stock? I am tempted to try it, just to see. Buffalo does taste different than beef, but not A LOT different, so I think it will be okay.

Also, do you thaw your bones/meat before making stock? Is there a reason you couldn't just throw 'em in frozen? I buy all of my meat frozen, but I've been thawing the bones to make stock ... then I started wondering why I bother.

On a related note, my buffalo supplier (sounds kinky, huh?!? :lol) just informed me that they've been venturing into beef, too. So in the near future I'll have a source for grassfed, naturally raised (no hormones, antibiotics, pesticides, etc.) buffalo, beef and wild elk and moose. :yum

OceanMomma

03-11-2006, 03:40 PM

I do have a question. What about baking & NT ? I've tried two of the cake recipes in there - the banana & the orange & they have not been very nice. Anyone worked out a way of doing NT baking without them being all soggy & doughy ? dh does like his munchies so this makes it very difficult to avoid him having junk food in the house.

yitlan

03-11-2006, 03:47 PM

I have a (new) question, actually. :) Can I mix soup bones to make stock?
I do it all the time. Whatever I have around goes in!

Also, do you thaw your bones/meat before making stock? Is there a reason you couldn't just throw 'em in frozen?
I put mine in frozen sometimes and I don't notice any difference.

nicolena

03-11-2006, 06:08 PM

oceanmama--i like the cookies. dh and the girls adore them. the almond ones with jam are excellent--but you have to let them cool completely on the sheet. i tried peanut ones using coconut oil instead of butter, and i think i used too much oil; they never set right, but they were delicious. i'm making the cream cheese pastries tomorrow--i'll let you know how they turn out.

sometimes when i make the pancakes they're better than at other times. actually, when i let them soak for about 36 hours and then put them in the fridge for the last 12, they tasted best (a happy accident). i haven't tried letting them soak that long ago. has anyone else noticed a better result with a longer soak?

OceanMomma

03-11-2006, 06:32 PM

Thanx Nicolena, I'll give the cookies a go when I go shopping next week as I need to get some arrowroot.

I was thinking of making some jerky & some pemican as well as munchies. Along with some crispy nuts & some dried fruit pieces.

Boadicea, I just bung in what I have to hand. I doubt it matters if it is frozen, it'll just take a little bit longer to cook as it will need to thaw out first.

JaneS

03-11-2006, 07:18 PM

Mehera re: Just Dairy

Just a few tidbits of inside info. This farmer is just 5 mi down the road in PA from the Amish farmer that the small splinter group I am going with is ordering from! At first I heard of it, I was disappointed I wouldn't be supporting local, but hey since both are from PA...

I haven't seen a pricelist for JD though. We are getting similar products too at terrific prices, I'm SO excited. The biggest deal for me is the goat's milk for DS. It's great that farm drives are not longer required, that's a great idea to expand, I hope it works out!

JaneS

03-11-2006, 07:23 PM

I was reading an old Wise Traditions newsletter and it said that soaking wheat berries like nuts and dehydrating them to save and grind later into flour before baking was effective... anyone do this?

(Not that I'm eating grains right now...sigh) Can I just rant about that?

Buying club prices:
Organic wheat berries 25 lbs $14.21
Organic almonds 25 lbs $311.00

:bang

No, I'm not getting the almonds needless to say.

P.S. I'm totally addicted to crispy pecans and dried dates eaten together lately. :yum

JaneS

03-11-2006, 07:25 PM

Hey Boadicea, mix them together! There's a old breed called a beef-alo actually, our co-op is getting some from VT!

mom2zsel

03-11-2006, 08:33 PM

OK-a bit of background here:

I started reading this forum over a month ago, read the books and really truly think my family needs SCD!

My problem is implementing it on our budget. We are a family of 3 adults (a foreign exchange student-a very hungry foreign exchange student) and four children-11, 9, 5, 2.

We have been doing SCD now for 11 days-feel great-see some changes in the kids-but I am running out of money! My DH and I were at our local Co-op store and he said "We would be better off if we just ate like everybody else does." I am not going back-we were grains at every meal-all organic-all homemade breads and granola, etc., but still too much grain!

We are doing tons of vegetables-frozen organic because that is what we have available now-but we go through two pounds at a meal-plus my kids love veggies in between to snack on as well. Not to mention the almonds-yikes $11-14/pound! We go through pounds and pounds of apples,oranges, grapes. My kids are asking for more variety-but I am out of affordable options, I feel.

Help! Am I missing something here? Thanks you all for any advice!

EDIT-OK-I am so frustrated that I posted this in the wrong place-sorry!

motocita

03-11-2006, 09:08 PM

hi, i'm new here. been doing NT since november. i love this diet. it's only been a short while but we've already noticed improved immunity. i also love that i'm eating locally and that the animals we eat lived on a pasture.

doing NT has become a lot of work for me but finally now i feel like i'm getting into a routine and not minding it as much. so far we do soaked grains such as oatmeal, soaked beans, chicken and beef stock, crispy nuts, yogurt, raw butter, raw milk on occasion. we don't really like milk much in my family but i do use it to cook with. i know it kills the enzymes but my milk source milks the cows out on the pasture and the fact that it's not pasturized or homogenized is a big deal to me. also that my money is going to support these practices.

someone asked about pancakes. i found a recipe online which i really love, and it's great because it doesn't require a grain mill. here it is:http://www.suegregg.com/recipes/breakfasts/blenderbatterwaffles/blenderbatterwafflesA.htm

i do have one question: does anyone else have a problem with fallon's cooking times? my beans never make it even to 3 hours, by that time they are total mush!

thanks, and i'm happy to have found this thread!
:thumb

Yooper

03-12-2006, 06:37 AM

I have found the bean cooking times to be way too long too! I am curious what others have to say. Often mine are cooked withon one hour after soaking all night.

ibejimother

03-12-2006, 09:19 AM

provocativa

03-12-2006, 10:21 AM

I do a lot of thinking about the financial aspect of NT- (and Maker's Diet or SCD for others) as I adapt to it. I think implementing over the course of a year, and incorporating the lowered costs of growing/harvesting/butchering seasons is the way to go, and adjusting one's bulk buying to those tides.

provocativa

03-12-2006, 10:21 AM

Neldavi

03-12-2006, 10:56 AM

sometimes when i make the pancakes they're better than at other times. actually, when i let them soak for about 36 hours and then put them in the fridge for the last 12, they tasted best (a happy accident). i haven't tried letting them soak that long ago. has anyone else noticed a better result with a longer soak?

:nod Yeah, I usually soak the flour the night before, but if we have batter left over I put it in the fridge for the next morning and they are a *lot* better. They have that really nice sour taste and are fluffier.

cobluegirl

03-12-2006, 06:08 PM

Hello,

how do you find out about an NT class? I'm in upstate, NY. Thanks:)

my guess would be to contact the weston a price foundation in your area(check the website) and see if someone offers some...

TopazBlueMama

03-13-2006, 11:28 AM

:D Our goat's milk has started up again today! I'm so glad, we love the stuff. It is so fresh and good. I can start making my egg nog again with it and some egg yolks.
I also will be getting 1/4 of a cow, with everything included so nothing goes to waste. I plan on dehydrating a lot of it into jerky and pemmican since I don't have much freezer space.
So, I feel like I'm starting up good again. I've been juicing more lately too, and I love that, it always makes me feel so healthy. I hadn't been doing it much the past year. I guess I needed a break after juicing daily for 2 years straight practically. :lol

Brisen

03-13-2006, 12:06 PM

mountain mom

03-13-2006, 01:32 PM

I always thought that humans were herbavorves until they discovered fire.

steffanie3

03-13-2006, 02:20 PM

My DH is going to Portland area this weekend. I am not going, but would like to send him to get some things for us. There is a Wild Oats, Trader Joes, and Whole Foods there. What would be some good NT foods to get?

I know some of the mommas on here shop at those places and was hoping for some insight.

Soup bones would be good and organic chicken, the chicken here is very spendy until I can save enough money to make an order from Azure Standard.

Thanks

mama-a-llama

03-13-2006, 02:28 PM

I'm curious what part of NT made the biggest difference in your health/how you feel. And for those who eased into it, what did you start with and why?

Hibou

03-13-2006, 03:00 PM

Peri Patetic

03-13-2006, 03:24 PM

I always thought that humans were herbavorves until they discovered fire.

de-lurking to give this link which covers human diet over the course of history...http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/hb/hb-interview1a.shtml

TopazBlueMama

03-13-2006, 04:20 PM

oooh eggnog- yum! care to share your recipe? tia!:)

Sure! Everything is approximate to taste.
I just put 2-4 egg yolks into a tall glass, fill the rest with raw milk (you could do kefir or yogurt or half cream too) then add a spoon or more of sweetner. I use raw honey or maple syrup. Add a tiny splash of vanilla and nutmeg and/or cinnamon.
I like getting in my raw yolks this way.

MomInFlux

03-13-2006, 05:09 PM

I made kimchi - and it doesn't suck! :lol Just had to share. :love

I make eggnog exactly the same way - yum, yum.

What are everyone's favorite crispy nuts? I soaked and dyhydrated brazil nuts, but I'm not thrilled with them. Perhaps they're just naturally oily and so don't get as crispy?

My whine for the day: I called Organic Pastures and asked if I could freeze milk directly in the plastic jugs they sell the milk in. They said yes. So what have I got on my hands now? Yup - leaking milk jugs - 12 of 'em in my freezer that may or may not leak when they're thawing. Grrr.

MomInFlux

03-13-2006, 05:10 PM

Forgot a question I meant to ask...

Can I make yogurt from raw milk that's beginning to sour? Or should I stick with curds and whey?

Worldshakerz

03-13-2006, 05:22 PM

Oh, I've made eggnog like that with raw milk and cream many times. It really is a great way to get in your egg yolks. I think I am going to try it with kefir today though...my kefir grains are making some very good kefir now! It's so exciting. I show my DH my grains so proudly...."Look!" he's like, "Gross" and laughs and I defend my little creatures and say, "No, they are so cool!"

I'm finally trying Diane's Oatmeal recipe that I shared with everyone...its in the oven now, smells so good already.

mama-a-llama, I started with eating more organic foods, soaking oatmeal, and making kombucha. I was happy to know I was doing a good thing by consuming real fats like butter already. Since finding out about NT 3 years ago, it has been a very gradual process for us. Just add in what you can when you can and you will be improving at a good pace :). Part of the long process for me was getting sources of affordable grass-fed meats and eggs and raw dairy, which we finally did last year :)

NT stuff in our fridge/freezer right now: grass fed beef and free range chicken and eggs, raw milk and cheese, beet kvass, kvass, kefir whey, celery and carrots and onions and parsley I got to make stock, lard, beef tallow, butter, Blue Ice clo. In the cupboards I have some kefir brewing, coconut oil, olive oil and some other superfoods around like nutrional yeast, acerola powder, dolomite and azomite. Oh and sea salt. I don't always have everything at once though, I just do the best I can with what I can get.

ChiknGirl

03-13-2006, 08:36 PM

I made some of Diane's Oatmeal Cereal over the weekend with dried cherries, blueberries and coconut. I've had to stop the family from eating it all! It gets a big :thumb from our house.

Neldavi

03-14-2006, 05:52 AM

Forgot a question I meant to ask...

Can I make yogurt from raw milk that's beginning to sour? Or should I stick with curds and whey?

I've done that before and it worked, but tasted funny and didn't last as long ... I'd make cheese with it.

nicolena

03-14-2006, 06:16 AM

My whine for the day: I called Organic Pastures and asked if I could freeze milk directly in the plastic jugs they sell the milk in. They said yes. So what have I got on my hands now? Yup - leaking milk jugs - 12 of 'em in my freezer that may or may not leak when they're thawing. Grrr.

I ordered from there (getting fresh milk this weekend i think, locally), so it came frozen. They haven't leaked while thawing yet, but the bottoms get all pushed out. I lay them on their sides in the freezer--maybe that helps?

Should I be eating raw egg yolks? Please tell me why. Should I attempt to add one to my girlies already loaded morning smoothie (harboring molasses and CLO with a banana and yogurt)? They're 15 months. Thanks, dudes.

BTW, the cream cheese pastries rocked.

memory maker

03-14-2006, 07:19 AM

Ok I havent made them in a while and I have forgot how. How much water goes with how much oats? I wanted to have some soaking for breakfast today, but couldnt remember. Please fill me in so I can soak them for tomorrow.

mamaberd

03-14-2006, 03:19 PM

How long does whey last in the refridgerator? Can you tell it has gone bad by the smell?

THX
*
Shay*

tayndrewsmama

03-14-2006, 03:42 PM

How long does whey last in the refridgerator? Can you tell it has gone bad by the smell?

THX
*
Shay*
I don't know about smells, but my understanding is that it should last about 6 months in the fridge.

provocativa

03-14-2006, 03:55 PM

It depends on how your storing it. Store it in glass, and decant it to a clean container every so often, and it lasts a long time. Stored in plastic (sometimes I strain yogurt from one container into a recycled one), it tends spoil quicker, though that too takes awhile. Once you get interested in whey, though, it doesn't stick around that long.

cobluegirl

03-14-2006, 04:19 PM

you can freeze whey can't you?

JaneS

03-14-2006, 06:52 PM

Great article tying together Price, nutrition and birth defects:

http://www.ctds.info/connective_disorders1.html

Gale Force

03-14-2006, 07:39 PM

mountain mom

03-15-2006, 11:22 AM

In regards to Whey and how to tell if its off.

Its been my experience that it smells like 'barnyard' when it starts to go off. The fresh smell is no longer present.

toraji

03-15-2006, 11:37 AM

Question --

I see claims from omnis and vegs alike that people have been eating their respective ways for thousands of years, thrived, and outlived those who ate the other way (so omnis claiming vegs lived shorter lives, vegs claiming omnis lived shorter lives). This would seem to me to be something relatively easy to figure out one way or the other -- or am I misguided? Do we just not really have plain info one way or the other?
I second the recommendation to read the Beyond Veg article (and website!)

There was no evidence that I found of vegetarian hunter/gatherers (edited to add: well yeah, then they wouldn't be hunters would they? LOL). The furthest back I found was vegetarian Indians (from India, not Native Americans), and they were well reputed to NOT be very sturdy people compared to their non-veg neighbors.

If someone can come up with evidence of said long-lived vegetarian people from way back when, then I'd love to see it. But as far as I know, it is only modern vegetarians who are outliving SAD omnis. To which I say, "Well, duh!"

mamaberd

03-15-2006, 01:58 PM

Thanks, you gals are 'whey' cool.

I am also wondering...

Are there any particular steps you would take if you were making chicken stock (I use a crockpot) and then plan to turn it into soup immediately?

Ruthla

03-15-2006, 02:14 PM

When I make chicken soup, I cook it, then take out the overcooked mushy vegetables I cooked it with, take out the meat and soft bones (leaving the meat and bones in the soup if they're not soft yet) and then add fresh veggies to the soup (cut into bite sized pieces) and sometimes add noodles or matzah balls.

Alternatively, I start a soup with meat and bones and whatever else, serve it when it starts smelling good, then add more water and veggies if the soup gets too low before I serve it again.

Peri Patetic

03-15-2006, 07:58 PM

Um, hello, since this is my second time de-lurking I will just intro already. It will be short because I have to go read bedtime stories to DD.

I first ran across the WAP site several years ago when a friend was getting really into paleo eating...I started poking around the net looking for more info on it and found WAP. It wasn't good timing for me to try to make dietary changes, but I'm feeling more motivated and capable now. Not sure how much we will incorporate right away, although I'm working on getting CLO and EVCO into our diets, also kefir. I think I've found a source for raw dairy, yay. Today I found Eat Fat, Lose Fat at Half Price Books and snapped it up. I'm also looking into the SCD and am stalking that thread as well! :lol

My question right now is with EVCO. If you cook/bake etc. with it, does everything end up tasting a little coconutty? I can't imagine sneaking that by my picky eaters without comment.

cobluegirl

03-15-2006, 10:33 PM

I have made biscuits with EVCO and they are the best I have ever eaten/made....yummy..I do think with some things you will taste the coconut flavor but in a lot fo things you won't. You will just have to experiment. We love it on popcorn here.

Gale Force

03-16-2006, 07:27 AM

I cook with EVCO too and all is good so far. Most of the things I cook overwhelm the coconut flavor anyway.

I'm headed to Organic Pastures today for a direct-dairy pick-up. It's about an hour from preschool. Luckily, the dairy is on our side of Fresno. We will do a pre-preschool fieldtrip, then go to preschool, and then I'm going to collect some meat from our meat locker storage in yet another town. We'll have lots to eat, but not much else to show for the day.

mountain mom

03-16-2006, 09:34 AM

I use EPCO to cook with and EVCO as a cold oil to add after the meal is cooked. My favorite is bitter greens with EVCO on top. Yummy! Also the EPCO is 1/2 the price so its more economical for us to cook with it. Sautee, bake etc.

Brisen

03-16-2006, 09:59 AM

Thanks for the input on diet claims. That interview (what I've read of it) was very interesting. It still odd to me that both groups can claim that their diet can produce the most longevity and health throughout history... I guess if I want to see where the veggie claims are coming from, I should lurk on a veggie site, eh? :lol

Mamaberd, I find it difficult to make soup from a chicken right away, since I don't like all of the fat from the chicken in my soup. If you float icecubes in the stock, they will solidify the fat right around them, and you can get it out (and save it), but I'm rather lazy for that. Most of the recipes I've seen say to cook the chicken one day, and make soup the next. I do find that using a pot (http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?topcategoryId=15570&catalogId=10103&storeId=12&productId=11601&langId=-1&parentCats=15570*15679) with a pasta insert (http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?topcategoryId=15570&catalogId=10103&storeId=12&productId=14115&langId=-1&parentCats=15570*15679) to cook my chicken in helps -- you could pull the insert out, add your veggies to the stock, and then add meat back in just before serving. That Ikea one has fit any chicken I've bought, but getting a duck in there was a bit more difficult -- even if they were less weight, they tended to be longer.

I have been steaming chicken this way too -- I put in just enough water that it is covering the bottom of the insert, put seasonings in the water and on the chicken, cover, and cook over medium heat. It takes a couple of hours, the chicken came out nice and tender, and there was about 2 c. of very concentrated stock at the bottom (it was like jello jigglers after being in the fridge). Then I skim off the fat, scrape out the stock, take the meat off the bones, and put the bones etc. back in the pot to make a full pot of stock.

Oregonicmama

03-16-2006, 02:09 PM

hi,

i just got a message from Amazon that they are releasing "Eat fat, Lose Fat" in a paperback edition and it is on sale at 35% off right now- making it only $10!! Heres the link if your interested:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452285666/ref=pe_snp_666/103-8664747-4691004?n=283155

enjoy!!:)

aileen

03-16-2006, 03:03 PM

carnelian

03-16-2006, 04:32 PM

Awhile back I switched over to ghee (www.purityfarms.com) as our primary cooking fat. It gives vegetables a delicious buttery taste and has a higher smoking point than the oils. We use EVOO in salads, and EVCO on toast.

I made the carob chews the other day subbing blackstrap molasses for honey and using a combo of macs and almonds. A big hit here. Carob is a superb source of calcium--containing 3 times more calcium than breastmilk--but I've not done enough reseach to know if it's got the same bioavailability that bm does, hard to imagine it does. Still, it's got lots of caretenoids, B vities, phosphorous and iron. Roasted is preferable tho as the raw contains tannin which reduces the absorption of protein thru the intestinal wall. Roasting neutralizes most of the tannins.

I've done the preliminaries for the NT granola that was posted awhile back. Tomorrow it'll go into the oven for a long, slow bake. Stock's cooking away right now, walnuts and almonds are slow baking, another batch of kvass is setting.

GaleForce that sounds like quite a day!

nicolena

03-17-2006, 06:57 AM

hi guys--some questions.

has anyone found stainless steel baking sheets? the only ones i saw on amazon are not currently available. i hate using aluminum (tho my cephalon pans have them--boy do i wish we could get rid of them all right now).

what can i use in place of lard for, say, refried beans? i just don't know where to go for lard/how to make it, and the beans are getting old.

i bought chicken livers. but i'm chickening out about making them:lol people who have done it--what did you cook to go with them? which recipe did you use? (do i remember a series of posts about this? sorry if it's a repeat!)

hope you all are doing well!

Brisen

03-17-2006, 07:41 AM

I don't have ss baking sheets -- I use large, shallow, glass pans for baking (like lasagne pans). These can be bought fairly cheaply, and IME they don't stick much and clean up very easily. I'm sure it changes how things bake, but I haven't had anything fail miserably.

Brisen

03-17-2006, 07:44 AM

My kids like chicken liver nuggets... but I don't have a terribly nt-friendly recipe for it! Maybe if you use sourdough breadcrumbs?

mountain mom

03-17-2006, 08:45 AM

Chicken liver pate is yummy and easy to get kids to eat.

For the refried beans you could use EPCO.

carnelian

03-17-2006, 09:14 AM

Bia

03-17-2006, 11:30 AM

I've read that proper absorption of D requires calcium from the body, that one needs to make sure there is sufficient calcium in the diet for the D. I believe this is the case with A also but not sure on this--just read a long and very detailed article on A and osteoporosis. At any rate with calcium there is then the necessity for magnesium so that the cal can be absorbed. Does anyone, JaneS maybe, have any ratios on D--say 1000 IU--(and A?) to calcium and mag?

also, anyone seen the sodium ascorbate thread in the vax forum? With the "excess calcium" issue? I thought traditional diets had more calcium than modern diets and we needed to supp? I'm confused. I've read too much, I'm tired, and I can't keep things straight anymore. :nut

I can't find my nt book. Would someone please help me out by posting how much whey I'm supposed to make the beet kvass with? I forget. And is it one quart of water and three beets? TIA.

vermontana

03-17-2006, 12:33 PM

Yogurt making ?

If I'm using commercial yogurt to start my own, can I use flavored, good quality yogurt? DH bought some maple Butterworks Farm whole milk yogurt, and I don't want to go out and buy another thing of plain. The Butterworks yogurt is organic, whole past. milk, with organic maple syrup and acidophilus, bulgaricus and thermophilus cultures.
TIA!

provocativa

03-17-2006, 01:54 PM

Whose diet? A SAD diet, with synthetic D that doesn't get absorbed well, eating foods with 'added calcium' that has a low bioavailability, and a diet that prevents absorbtion of vitamins and minerals- unsoaked grains, processed grains, etc. needs different supplementation. And people process stuff differently. I'm interested to see the recommended miligram dosage of magnesium, but I don't think there's a golden number- okay, I don't think the RDA is right about much, ever. Like, according to my 'symptoms', I know I need more A and Mag than I was getting- so now I'm on a more bioavailable A (CLO) and hoping to afford a food based Magnesium next order, KWIM? Some folks absorb more mag from their food, and conventional food has a sorry magnesium profile, and. . . . off to rescue my toddler.

Gale Force

03-17-2006, 02:44 PM

H ladies. I just thought I'd provide a quick report on my field trip to Organic Pastures.

First, they are in the absolute middle of nowhere. Well, we are a little more isolated than they, but they are 25 minutes west of Hwy 99, out of Selma for any locals. The trip definitely took longer than I expected.

I had pictured cows free-ranging on some rolling hills. First, I had no idea where they were located, but once I knew it was west of the 99 and not east, I knew I would not find the hills. :lol Furthermore, their model for feeding is more like sheep are fed. They move the cows around to fields that need to be grazed. They grow alfalfa themselves, likely all to feed to their cows. But the cows also graze on the remains of the alfalfa crop just like sheep would normally do. So their mobile milker is moved around to whatever field they are in at the time. Cows are supplemented with grain, but I did not ask what percentage. I'll ask next time. And, of course, they are fed hay.

carnelian

03-17-2006, 03:25 PM

Their cows are supplemented with grain?!! Really? I was under the impression that their cows were 100% pastured. Some studies show that even a small amount of grain changes the chemical makeup of the milk and eliminates the CLA. Hmm more research to do.

Bia, I posed a couple of questions on the SA thread asking for data on the negatives of calcium ascorbate as I haven't been able to find anything to the contrary. Hopefully MT is still monitoring that thread and will respond. Re the beet kvass, it's 1/4 cup of whey per big mason jar of water and 2-3 beets. Don't forget the salt!

vermontana, I don't think you can use a sweetened starter as it would interrupt the fermentation process. JaneS is resident yogurt expert, she can probably tell us more.

Provocativa I was referring to natural D from CLO. From what I've read you need to make sure there is enough calcium (and thus mag) in your body as the D takes calcium. Hoping JaneS will jump in here. The RDA for mag is 400mg but RDAs are notoriously low. Mag glycinate is apparently the most absorbable form tho it's hard to find. The citrate form of calcium is one of the more bioavailable ones. And you want a one to one ratio. Thorne makes such a product but I don't know if it's available to other than physicians, pharmacists and cns.

Bia

03-17-2006, 03:30 PM

Bia, I posed a couple of questions on the SA thread asking for data on the negatives of calcium ascorbate as I haven't been able to find anything to the contrary. Hopefully MT is still monitoring that thread and will respond. Re the beet kvass, it's 1/4 cup of whey per big mason jar of water and 2-3 beets. Don't forget the salt!

Thanks! :)

Gale Force

03-17-2006, 05:41 PM

kmamma

03-17-2006, 08:46 PM

JaneS

03-17-2006, 09:30 PM

Who's taking my name in vain here... :lol

Re: flavored yogurt starter
I don't know but you can try it and see... culture for 4 hours and taste, if it's tart it's working. Then you can stop there or go for the full 24 hrs. I'd add a bit more than the usual 1/4 cup per quart recommendation just to be safe, won't hurt anything.

Speaking of yogurt, there was a question a while back about culturing sour raw milk I think?

Well I had a hellish day earlier this week when I picked up my raw milk. The jugs ended up at room temp for 5 hours and then I proceeded to make 24 hr yogurt as usual. Well the taste was a bit "off" like the milk had soured, whatever interesting flora in there had been growing. Well like I always do when I ruin expensive NT food, I stick it in the fridge to deal with later! (if y'all remember my previous post on pickles :rolleyes)

Interestingly enough, 5 days later, the yogurt has no off taste at all! Maybe the lactic acid bacteria crowded out the other guys? Just one for the record. Glad I didn't throw it out.

Re: Vitamin D

All I know on the subject is either at www.westonaprice.org or www.mercola.com :wink

I thought it was the other way around, vitamins A & D (and the X Factor) is very much needed for calcium and other mineral absorption, per work of Weston Price. Most people are D and mag deficient. And of course I think A too!

It's hard to calculate numbers across the board for everyone. Better to go by optimizing food intake plus supplementation if symptoms warrant it. I like magnesium citrate powder from Kirkman b/c it has no additives but Natural Calm and some other brand I cannot remember that is at Whole Foods is more widely available.

tayndrewsmama

03-18-2006, 06:40 AM

I would not get steel pans since it's not the safest way to cook food. It contains chromium and nickel, both of which leach into the cooked food. There are stoneware cookie pans from pampered chef--little expensive but worth it.
:yeah: I love my stones!!!! I haven't cooked in anything else in YEARS. I would be totally lost if suddenly they were gone.

I happen to be having a catalog party now. :wink :lol

nicolena

03-18-2006, 07:01 AM

hey, pm me info tayndrewsmama. i probably won't get anything just yet (thanks for the glass pan tip), but dh knows mother's day is just an excuse to outfit the kitchen this year;). tho i swear i JUST said to him, at least i'm not into pampered chef...yet. sigh. is fallon in cahoots with quality kitchen ware makers?

carnelian

03-18-2006, 08:55 AM

Yes, definitely D is needed for absorption of cal which is why it's usually included in cal supps tho in synthetic :rolleyes form. But when you start taking larger doses of D--1000IU or more--what I'm reading is that you need to have sufficient calcium in the body. Hmm I'll do some more research and see what I come up with. Jane did you happen to read the PDF on A and osteoporosis on the Green Pastures website?

Re the cal citrate. This form is good but it can be irritating to the bowel--hence being good for constipation. I'm still trying to find out if there are any contraindications on long-term use. My ND advises against it due to the bowel irritation and recommends the glycinate form. I go back and forth. I like the citrate form myself.

JaneS

03-18-2006, 12:17 PM

Jane did you happen to read the PDF on A and osteoporosis on the Green Pastures website?

As a matter of fact, I just read the Wise Traditions article this past week! Just another example of why natural sources of vitamins are best (high vitamin cod liver oil with balanced A & D). But it does beg the question of need for supplementation since how many of us get 4,000 IU of D a day in winter?

Link for anyone who is interested in reading: http://www.greenpasture.org/

The first cure for rickets was not vitamin D. The first cure for
rickets was a food: cod liver oil...

Cod liver oil, on the other hand, is rich in both vitamins A and D. In
fact, high-vitamin cod liver oil, as used by Price, not only contains more
than twice the amount of vitamin A, but also contains almost six times the
vitamin D as regular cod liver oil, lowering the vitamin A to D ratio from
twenty-fi ve to one, to ten to one, providing 4,000 IU of vitamin D in just
over a tablespoon.50,51

...It makes sense, then, that high-vitamin cod liver oil should serve as a
safe stand-alone supply of vitamin A even during the winter, while liver
from land animals should either be used during seasons where the supply
of UV-B rays from the sun is rich enough to guarantee adequate vitamin
D, or in conjunction with vitamin D-rich foods such as lard or bacon from
pastured pigs (liver and bacon!), oily fish, shellfish and egg yolks from
pastured chickens, all of which supply smaller but substantial amounts
of vitamin D. If liver were cooked in a tablespoon of lard, for example,
the lard would supply an extra 400 IU of vitamin D, while other vitamin
D-rich foods could be used to supply the remainder of vitamin D
requirements.

www.RadiantLifeCatalog.com has ionic coral calcium.

Gale Force takes some special bovine calcium stuff.

JaneS

03-18-2006, 01:02 PM

A number of us who belong to this thread frequently talk about going through a crisis with our children... and having it be the catalyst for change (and finding NT). I just came across the following story about Weston Price which I hadn't heard before:

Price and his wife lost their only son due to complications from an infected root canal, which Price himself had performed. This led to Price publishing a 1000 pg. treatise on the problems of systemic dental infections from root canals.

Root Canal - Cover Up
http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/Rootcanal.htm

Dr. Weston Price led a 60-man team of researchers whose findings - suppressed until now rank right up there with the greatest medical discoveries of all time. This is not the usual medical story of a prolonged search for the difficult-to-find causative agent of some devastating disease. Rather, it's the story of how a "cast of millions" (of bacteria) become entrenched inside the structure of teeth and end up causing the largest number of diseases ever traced to a single source.

A high percentage of chronic degenerative diseases can originate from root filled teeth. The most frequent were heart and circulatory diseases and he found 16 different causative agents for these. The next most common diseases were those of the joints, arthritis and rheumatism. In third place - but almost tied for second - were diseases of the brain and nervous system. After that, any disease you can name might (and in some cases has) come from root filled teeth.

Dr. Price undertook his investigations in 1900. He continued until 1925, and published his work in two volumes in 1923. In 1915 the National Dental Association (which changed its name a few years later to The American Dental Association) was so impressed with his work that they appointed Dr. Price their first Research Director. His Advisory Board read like a Who's Who in medicine and dentistry for that era. They represented the fields of bacteriology, pathology, rheumatology, surgery, chemistry, and cardiology.

Talk about parental guilt. :(

You know I frequently blame my mercury fillings for my ills, but really I had a root canal done at the same time as placing 8 of my fillings.

Brisen

03-18-2006, 01:30 PM

I know I asked about this, but it was quite a while ago, and I'm wondering if anyone is up for a discussion of the diet for pg and nursing mothers put up at the wap site. link (http://www.westonaprice.org/children/dietformothers.html)

I'm looking at it right now as I'm trying to plan meals for the next month. Has anyone actually followed this? I think my problem when I look at this is looking at each recommendation and just thinking of eating that thing, instead of thinking of ways to incorporate it, if that makes sense. For instance, when it says "fresh beef or lamb daily, consumed with the fat," I'm thinking -- chuck roast or leg of lamb, how will I do that every day?! But I suppose that if I cook up a big pot of beef, barley, and veg soup and have that to start dinner 4 nights a week, and have a lamb chop or two with eggs in the morning 3 days a week, I have the beef & lamb covered.

I also KNOW I need to eat more fish... I felt it very strongly, really craved it in my last pg, but didn't really eat much. I can get alaskan pollock cheaply & we all like it (and afaik it is a cold water fish, so should be good for mercury), but I have had no succes with cooking it unless it's in chowder. We all like tuna, but that should be limited because of mercury. Most of us like canned salmon, and it seems more and more now I'm seeing frozen "wild caught" salmon filets at the store. (I have some in my freezer, actually, but I'm a little scared to try them, I might ruin them!) I like other canned fish like sardines and those kippered fish snacks, but most of them have preservatives. I'm just a little stumped about how to eat oily fish daily... I suppose I don't have to, since that's for vit D, and I do use lard in my break and to cook eggs, which I eat pretty much daily. I think I could incorporate the oily fish (is salmon an oily fish?) into afternoon snacks a few days a week. And the other fish, I can get in at lunch and dinner, spread through the rest of the week.

OK, so I'm just thinking out loud here now... every time I sit down to plan, it seems so overwhelming! Anyone else tried to follow these specific recommendations?