I heard they changed the carseat laws to 6 and 60 pounds....did they?

[its_our_family]

I heard it through a friend. But I hadn't heard anything about it myself. She said that she is keeping her kids in till 8 and 80 pounds. I was excited about 4 and 40 pounds....oh well, I guess we won't be able to make it without buying another carseat since ours only goes to 40 pounds!

[Dar]

It all depends on your state - each state's laws are different.

FWIW, children just aren't safe in a regular seat belt until they're about 80 pounds. The belts don't fit correctly, even the car manufacturer will tell you it's not safe. Yes, you could save some money, but what's more important? And actually, my daughter preferred her booster because she could see out the window a lot better.

Dar

[*~*SewHappyNow*~*]

Yes, it all varies by individual state laws. I think its all a huge conspiracy myself :p

In our state its no children under 12 in the front seat and all children must be in car seats or boosters until age 7 or 8 (forgot which)

So I guess this means you'll probably need to buy a mini van or a freaking bus to drive your kids around if you happen to have more than 2 under the age of 12 :rolleyes: and exactly who is going to space their children out that far apart on purpose?

Edited to add an amusing conversation with my mother:

I wasn't even aware of the exact law until she told me (she works in state government). She was saying how rediculous the law was and how its the 2nd most strict in the country (I believe she said only New York had a higher age/weight limit--which is also interesting because NY is the only state with more complicated, restrictive laws regarding homeschooling..but I am getting way off topic).

Anyhow, she said if you are pulled over for a traffic violation you may be cited for non-compliance with the booster seat law. And all in all it added up to something like a $70 fee and a $110 fine totaling $180, or so.. Forget the details.

I replied, "well damn! just how am I supposed to make my mini-van payment then?! gez!" :D

Seriously, though, are we going to have to start carrying around our kids birth certificates or scales to prove were not violators? How exactly is this going to be enforced? Perhaps our kids will be issued ID cards at birth or maybe, even better, implanted with microchips?

Well, ok I could go on... but I am beginning to sound like this thread belongs in activism. My apologies, but I really find the government thinking they're looking out for my best interests, because I'm too stupid to do it myself completely irritating! :cuss

[~Megan~]

Oregon is 7 and 70 I believe

[DiaperDiva]

So I guess this means you'll probably need to buy a mini van or a freaking bus to drive your kids around if you happen to have more than 2 under the age of 12 and exactly who is going to space their children out that far apart on purpose?

I think this is just part of parenting. I think things like finances, space, etc need to be considered when planning a family. We have a family car that would fit 2 carseats safely. We can't afford another car, so we aren't going to be having 3 children in carseats at a time. My desire for a larger family comes in second when it comes to my already living child(ren).

In NC its 8/80 and I like that just fine :D

[*~*SewHappyNow*~*]

I think this is just part of parenting. I think things like finances, space, etc

I don't know about that. I think a number of people might say that sounds like its a way of restricting the priviledge of having larger families to only the wealthy, those who are financialy capable of affording the space. Besides, it is a right, not a priviledge, correct? Last I check this is not China. Although, we're probably heading that way...

[DiaperDiva]

And I guess it is also a right for parents to let their children flop around unprotected ina 2000 pound automobile.

(the above wasn't sarcastic..does look that way though)

I don't think it should be law, but a recommendation. Then let parents take it from there. I'm more than happy in my decision not to have more children than we can a)afford b)keep safe.

[Missy]

Additionally, it's really hard to plan when the law keeps changing...

My oldest was "legally" out of the car seat and I was pregnant with my third child when the new law passed last year. Yes, we had just bought the minivan, but if we hadn't? And couldn't afford to? It's a tight squeeze but three children can certainly fit into a car. Three carseats? not so easy. Our children were spaced perfectly for the previous law that had been on the books for years. We can't base our family planning around laws that may or may not develop.

Missy

[brookelynnp]

We were not sure of the law here in Colorado but we went out and bought the toddler carseat that can be changed into a booster. I think that it is a good idea though. I get so salty when I see parents with kids three and four and even older at times just freely roaming around in their cars, especially on the highways where mom or dad is going a cool 75!

[DiaperDiva]

Brooklyn~

In NC it seems to be the norm to see young children(toddlers) uncarseated. THey look to be toddlers anyway.

[queen620]

Diaper Diva,
when was the law changed to 8and 80. I got a printout of the law vs safety, and it said the law was 4 and 40, but it was safer to keep kids in booster seats as long as possible. I got the state printout at babiesrus last month, along with some other stuff. Do you know where to find info of the change, b/c I have several friends that have stopped using their carseats b/c their kids are 4 and 40lbs?
Thanks for the update I hope you are right. Last year NC recieved a D rating from the NHTSB when it came to its lackness in carseat laws.

Thanks,Regina

[Trishy]

Most front seat laws apply to vehicles that have adequate seating capacity in back. Obviously if you have 4 kids one is going to have to sit in the front. 3 seats in the back is not easy but it is do-able. You just have to find the right combo. These laws are made because children have died because their parents were not protecting them in the car. All of us educate ourselves and do whatever is necessary to protect our children in the car and everywhere else. But not all parents are like us and that is what these laws are made for. its_our_family the current laws for Virginia are:

* Infants through children age 5 must be properly restrained in an appropriate child safety seat.

* Children ages 15 and under must be resrained in some manner regardless of seating position.*

* When Virginia does mandate restraint use, it requires the driver to secure both the child safety seat and the child properly.

* Safety belt law covers all occupantsd in all seating positions.

* Secondary enforcement (safety belt law).

If anyone is interested to find out the law in your state look at:

http://www.safekids.org/

The is a bar on the right side that says "Learn about child safety laws and regulations." Select your state and select car. It is also important to check states you will be traveling through if you are taking a road trip.

[snuffles]

Who said minivans have to be expensive? You don't have to get a brand new one. We got a 1995 model, great shape, a couple of years ago, for only $4000.

Mel

[simonee]

ITA Lea. Would it perhaps be related to the fact that Detroit has some big time lobbyists in Washington? And that big cars guzzle more gas provided by Texas oil companies? :rolleyes:

[Monica]

Lea - YOU may not be too stupid to properly protect your children but millions of Americans are.

[*~*SewHappyNow*~*]

Ah the dumbing down of America, where your rights and common sense are traded for laws to protect you from craddle to grave...

*someone key the patriotic music please*

[somemama]

What about the rights of kids to be properly restrained?

[*~*SewHappyNow*~*]

What about the rights of children to be feed human breast milk, instead of artificial breast milk?

What about the rights of children to not live on a diet of coke and snickers bars?

What about the rights of children to not be damaged by vaccines?

Every time someone says "gee there ought to be a law.." it makes me cringe.

You don't see just how your freedoms have been suddenly taken away from you? How someone has assumed you're so dumb you can't consider the facts and make up your mind for yourself?

Why is 4 and 40lbs good enough in some places and 8 and 80lbs better in others?

You know why the first 3 things will never be laws, even though "there ought to be a law.."? Because no one will ever successfully lobby and get a law passed that doesn't have financial backing that will result in a profit for some industry etc...

The AAP can make all the recommendations it wants, but breast milk is never going to be profitable to enough for any group to mandate breast feeding children to the age of 12 months. I could just see it now, there'd be exemptions for religious and medical reasons.. :p Won't ever happen though...


Yes, it sounds like a wacko conspiracy theroy... so don't take me too seriously, but I can't help but think there's some motivating factor behind all this besides safely restraining children.

[somemama]

4/40 isn't good enough. (Just because the law stops there in many states doesn't make it "good enough.")

So many parents who've lost children because the kids weren't in booster seats say, "I wish I knew...." Laws of this type help educate.

I don't see this as taking away my freedom. (It's also not a violation of my freedom to require me to stop at stop lights.)

Now if they took away my kid or my car, that might be another thing. But you pay the ticket, learn your lesson, and properly restrain your kid the next time.

[somemama]

And off topic but related to what you said.....it should be ILLEGAL for schools to have vending machines. (Speaking as a teacher, seeing kids eat way too much of that stuff.)

[its_our_family]

I'll do anything for the safety of my baby! And you are right about a booster helping you see out. I have that problem as an adult half the time! Actually I'm just barely aboe to ride in the front seat according to some car manufacturers! I'm only 60 incehs tall and I believe in some vehicles that is the min!

btw...dh would rather walk than own a minivan! He said if we have another babe we'll get an Envoy! Which is what I want...when we got pg with Sweetpea I was already bugging him about it! That was off topic...oh well!

[lilyka]

Most cars will seat 3 carseats. My friend got three carseats in the back of a geo metro. Ok, a professinal installer did it for her but still, we were all pretty impressed by the big squeeze.

Kids can't sit in the front because airbags deploy in even low impact crashes and kill children.

Today there was a gieve away at two locations in town where people can pick up free booster seats. Too bad so many were sucked up by people driving expensive gass guzzeling and luxery cars (dh said there were over 100 new SUV and several people driving lexuses) If you can afford to drive that kind of car you can afford $20 for a booster. Sorry OT rant about people taking things away from people who actually need them. The giveaway was sponsored by United Way and Ford.

As for enforcing the law, police do drive around with scales in the trunk of thier car here.There are so many neglegent and under informed parents that this has to be a law. I want to scream everytime i see toddlers bouncing around in the front seat. I want to call the police and make them do something about this. unfortunately people rarely get pulled over for this.

[grisandole]

Not much time, but I agree w/lea. Yes, 8/80 is safest, but do parents get fined for having a crappy seat vs. a safe seat (cosco vs. britax comes to mind, thinking of the consumer reports crash tests results)? Where does it end? FWIW, I am also against the seat belt laws and helmet laws (for 18 and over).
Why is it that a 7yo must be strapped into a seat, but he can ride totally unrestrained in a school bus? "Follow the money" is something my ex used to tell me whenever I got outraged at some new "thing"......he said, think about who profits, then you'll understand.

[yoga]

I am totally w/lea on this. It is a big money-making scheme, and the safety of children is just a ploy. I mean, we could cite examples all day of kids who *were* "properly restrained (oh, that word makes me cringe!), and they still died as a result of an automobile accident. I don't need/want the gov't telling me what I ought to do for the safety of my babies. This same gov't tells me I ought to vaccinate, but I'm not doing that. Where does the line get drawn when it comes to the "safety and well-being" of our kids?

OK, getting off-track. We ride the bus, now. Fortunately, I don't have supply carseats for that.

Seems to me that if the gov't cared all that much about our kid's safety, built-in car seats of some sort would be standard in all motor vehicles. Oh! Sorry...makin' too much sense, now.

:rolleyes:

[chellemarie]

I, too, am with Lea on this one.

While I'm not against safety belt and seat laws, I think there comes a point where they're just plain overboard.

We were pg with #3 when the law changed from 4/40 to 6yo here. We'll have two in seats for a year now. We never imagined it'd take us this long to leave the house. *L*

Here's my beef with carseats...

I have an infant carrier/car seat that was purchased new when I had my son 8.5 years ago. He used the seat for less than six months (more like four, I think) before he weighed too much for it. When we had DD 3.5 years later, she used it for another six or so months.

So, we had a seat that had been used for maybe a year. It'd never been in an accident and we were the original owners. It'd been stored in a cool environment away from the sun.

I called the manufacturer to ensure there'd been no recalls on that model in 8.5 years. She said there were no recalls but that the seat was over five years old and therefore "EXPIRED" and should be destroyed.

Plastic EXPIRES? The same substance everyone freaks out about because it never breaks down in our landfills? You MUST be joking.

I took the seat to the car seat inspector at our local police department. He said the seat was safe to use but just to be safe, not to use it past ten years. Okay, fine. I can deal with that. I can't deal with car seats EXPIRING after FIVE years regardless of the amount of use they've seen. Especially the short-term use ones like infant carriers.

You can't convince me THAT isn't a brilliant way of car seat manufacturers playing on parents' fears and taking advantage of the business they're in. ANNNND....with so many states saying kids have to be in seats until they're 6, do you have to replace your "expired" seat with only one year to go? Are you following me, here?

Also, I find it offensive that one car seat is supposed to be so much safer than all the others and is therefore MUCH more expensive than all the others. Sure, I should pay the price to make sure my kids are safe and well cared-for. But why the hell should it cost SO much? If it's really not safe, the cheap seat shouldn't be on the shelf. And the expensive seat should be made affordable for ALL parents. Not just the ones who can afford to fork out that kind of cash and then say "cost shoudn't matter when it comes to your children."

You're right, it shouldn't. But that attitude doesn't mean I magically have more money in my pockets. Though I really wish it did. LOL

[lilyka]

Thge integrity of plastic does break down after time especially when it is expeosed to extreme temperatures. Often time becoming brittle and breaking more easily in an impact. Also the padding gets thin and worn out providing less comfort and protection. There is also an issue with the straps becoming brittle and snaping in an impact.

While we don't go so far as ot buy the exspensive versions we do buy good carseats and replace frequently to ensure that in the event we need them they work properly.

[Piglet68]

I have to admit that all these changing laws, increasing standards, warnings about using "outdated" older seats (that were "the safest thing" not too long ago), etc...all remind me of the whole CRIB thing. You know, how cribs are so damned unsafe but rather than come out and admit it they just change the standards every year or two, make any parent thinking of getting a hand-me-down crib cringe in fear and guilt, etc.

I think whoever said "follow the money" is RIGHT on the money. I can't help but agree with those who say that there are plenty of other things that can assure the safety of your child and they will never be laws b/c nobody is lobbying to make money off it.

The whole lack of front seating thing is rough. What if you don't have an airbag? What if you have it removed? I mean, which one of us would not rather have our rear-facing baby in the seat next to us while we're driving, instead of constantly gazing at them through the system of mirrors we must install? And the SUN is becoming a huge problem for us now that it's winter and it sits so low. We've got those damn sun shades everywhere but somehow we end up at an angle where it is RIGHT in DD's eyes and she gets SO upset! And I can't do anything from up front!!

But then I think about a head on collision and baby flying through the window...of course, I could just as easily be hit from the back..or from the side...it's just too much!!!!! :nut

AAAAAHHH!!! :bang

[grisandole]

I have a bit more time now. The carseat thing is hard beacuse I absolutely want my kids to be as safe as possible. So I research and purchase the best seats; will remain rear facing as long as possible, etc. That being said, there is a difference in being safe, and laws to ensure child safety; and going overboard (law wise). I find it ridicuclous to legislate one aspect of child safety but ignore everything else (school buses w/out seatbelts, roller skates w/out helmets, playground equipment, fast food/junk food, unsafe products like walkers, etc.) Children are entitled to grow up safe; however, safety is in the eye of the beholder.......and I don't think that the government is a good judge of safety. In general, cars are pretty dangerous (statisticlly sp). We do what we can to make using the car as safe as possible. I think more needs to be done in the area of making the cars themselves safer.........when comparing crash tests results I don't understand how two cars of the same class, priced the same can do differently.....shouldn't they all get 5 stars? Why make cars that get one star? And those aren't even cheaper! But, that would cost the big corporations a lot of money, and maybe a cut in their profits. So, just make parents buy devices to protect kids because the cars aren't made well enough.........pass the buck and the responsibility.

Oh, about the front seat thing, I totally agree. It was much easier driving w/ds1, who is 10 now, as my car then didn't have an airbag. He was in the rear middle as an infant, but then went up front.......depending on the length of the drive and such.

[levar]

If the car doesn't have a front passenger seat airbag it is ok for children to ride in it. And if there is an off switch for the airbag that is ok too. It is the airbag that is the problem because it can break bones etc. If you read that SAFE Kids site [THANKS for that one FYI] you'll find this and other interesting stuff.

So those older cars and trucks are aok, plus the newer SUVs, trucks, and convertibles etc. And it is interesting to note that in many states [WA State for example] laws note that "research" has shown [?Weird, but it IS in there?] that lap belts cause more injury than no belts so for cars with only lap belts there are exemptions.

And there was MORE if you read up or search the internet too. I was amazed.

[its_our_family]

the whole kid flying out the window thing reminded me of a story...

My landlord is an EMT and he said that the baby being strapped in correct is as or more important than it being in the car right. He said about 2 yrs ago they went to a wreck where a family of 4 had been in an accident. The father had been killed and a baby was thrown from the car. They found the carseat on the side of the road over turned. When they flipped it over there was the baby. Screaming her head off and just a few cuts and scrapes! I can't imagine the absolute dread of turning that seat over!

And there was a guy in cincinnati that was in a wreck about 2 months ago. A 2yr old was killed because they were not in a carseat. There were 9 people in a Honda Civic (i don't know how they all fit) and there were 8 or more of those dvd players in the one car! They were in the headrests and even on the rearview mirror!