Not spanking makes your kids kill.

[Niamh]

Just got a lovely email forwarded. I don't think this has been discussed here, but I'm boiling and need to get it out.

The email says "The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on
CBS Sunday Morning Commentary, Sunday, 12/18/05." and then goes on to talk about how the world's going to hell in a handbasket for lots of different reasons, mainly because we've kicked God out of America.

Religious differences aside, his following statement made my blood boil.

"Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they
misbehave because their little persnalities would be warped and we might
damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an
expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they
don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill
strangers, their classmates, and themselves."

:rant: :cuss :censored

And that's all I have to say 'bout that.

:irked: (just one more little one)

[blessed]

Shall we do a poll of convicted murderers and compare the number who were spanked as kids with the number raised with gentleness?

[awnja]

Totally explains why such crap makes me feel muderous; My parents didn't spank! If my neighbors knew I wasn't spanked, I wonder if they'd be nervous living right next door. I chose the wrong career. Instead of teacher turned Stay-at-home-mom, I should have been a hitman or sniper or something. I have the right background for that kind of thing - never having been hit by an adult and all...

The part that I find offensive is when people relate hitting children to a fear of God. That's so crazy! If you respect God, you should respect His creation, including those tiny ones He's(or She's, you know what I mean) entrusted you with. Its really strange when Christians promote that kind of violent behavior. I don't think Jesus had that kind of message... I think it had something to do with Forgiveness and Reconcilliation... but hey maybe I just read it wrong...

[writermommy]

Every study I've ever seen shows that children who are spanked exhibit more violent behavior. Most violent criminals were spanked and abused during childhood. Funny how these statistics are ignored by the pro spanking crowd. The problem with many kids today is that they are ignorned by their parents, rather than in loving, attached homes where gentle discipline is practiced.

[georgia]

You might do a snopes and/or search--I've seen that one before. I believe, if I remember correctly, the Spock stuff is incorrectly attributed to B. Stein. As with most email FWs, I don't believe it to be true unless I do my own research :) I usually discard any FWs for this exact reason--who has time?!

[DreamsInDigital]

Snopes didn't bring up anything. When I have both my hands free maybe I'll try a Google search. This smells like BS to me though. It sounds like some highly opinionated jackass trying to qualify his beliefs by pretending someone famous said it.

[jenmk]

That kind of logic is always amazing to me . . . we blame the lack of spanking (and since when is there actually a LACK of spanking???) on children turning into monsters. No one seems to equate our society's penchant for not taking responsibility for themselves and always blaming someone else for their unhappiness as perhaps the reason behind some people's violent behavior.

Oh, but then we'd have to take responsibility as a society if we did that and we're too busy trying to find someone else to blame for what's wrong . . .

[RedWine]

Almost everything that comes out of Stein's mouth is unsubstantiated crap, so unfortunately this doesn't surprise me.

[ImoKit]

I saw that article when I was researching coursework on abortion.:notes2: Here's the link

http://www.ebe.org.uk/story61.htm

What the OP didn't mention was that it goes on to talk about school discipline, contraception and abortion in the same light.:angry

What the author is not recognising is that kids often follow the example of parents. If a parent doesn't have respect and tolerance the kid will be less likely not to show respect and tolerence and so more likely to end in jail in terms of assult. :bolt

[BlueStateMama]

why our children have no conscience, why they
don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill
strangers, their classmates, and themselves

Ahhh, not SPANKING creates murderers!! Now I've got it, and here I was, thinking that those serial killers were SOCIOPATHS!! :shrug Silly me, should've know it was that GD!!!:rolleyes

[flyingspaghettimama]

Ahhh, not SPANKING creates murderers!! Now I've got it, and here I was, thinking that those serial killers were SOCIOPATHS!! :shrug Silly me, should've know it was that GD!!!:rolleyes

Everyone knows that all eight of Dr. Sears' children are homicidal axe-murderers. When they're not stringing up fluffy baby kitties, that is, and holding up convenience stores, stealing sudafed for their trailer meth labs.

Ben Stain can bite my butt, whether he said it or not. Or shall I say, I do not care for the man...

Regardless, it's been attributed to multiple sources, and it's linked on "BreakTheChain"
http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/annegraham.html

[annab]

http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/drspock.htm

[Rhiannon Feimorgan]

The funniest thing about this is that many studdies have shown, contrary to poular opinion, that violent crime had decreased in the last 20 years or so.

But that's got nothing to do with in rise in GD...

[IncaMama]

oops nevermind someone already posted the site. :) carry on!

[tracilicious]

Are we talking about Ben Stein the comedian?

[2Sweeties1Angel]

Are we talking about Ben Stein the comedian?

If that's who we're talking about, it was probably a joke.

Wouldn't you think that hitting kids would encourage them to kill?

[flyingspaghettimama]

Ben Stein the comedian and Ben Stein, evil tool of the Nixon administration are one and the same. http://www.benstein.com/writing.html. He is a spanker though, if one were to (shudder) read his book Tommy and Me.

[DreamsInDigital]

Oh.my.goddess.
I used to think he was cool and smart.
CRAP.

[EnviroBecca]

Shall we do a poll of convicted murderers and compare the number who were spanked as kids with the number raised with gentleness?I work for a research study that's collecting long-term data on a bunch of males--how they were raised and how they turn out--and one of the things we're currently analyzing is the characteristics of murderers. Our previous findings and those of many other studies have shown that boys who are spanked, esp. those spanked frequently and those who don't get much positive reinforcement, are MORE likely to be violent both as children and as adults.

Ahhh, not SPANKING creates murderers!! Now I've got it, and here I was, thinking that those serial killers were SOCIOPATHS!! Sociopathy isn't something that happens just by chance. It may be that there's some innate basis to it--that there are certain people who have the brain wiring to be ABLE to become sociopaths--but case studies make it clear that there's always something that triggers the abnormal behavior. Being abused by parents is a very common trigger.

And of course, most murderers aren't sociopaths. A large number of murders in the United States can be summarized like this: "They had an argument. One person had a gun handy. Thus, the other person is dead." Most murders are committed on impulse. (Gun lovers, please don't flame me. Guns don't kill people all by themselves; people with poor impulse control kill people. It would be harder for them to do so if they didn't have guns, but saying that the impulse control is the real problem is a valid argument.)

I understand that BlueStateMama was being sarcastic about "misunderstanding"--I just can't resist saying the above, after years of studying violence and how it happens.

[blessed]

Sorry, my comment was meant entirely in jest. I thought it was common knowledge that most violent offenders had histories of childhood violence and physical abuse.

I doubt you could find more than a handful of convicts in for violent offenses who could claim not having been spanked as children.

[flyingspaghettimama]

EnviroBecca, that was interesting. Thanks.

[BlueStateMama]

I was being completely tonuge-in-cheek.:wink And of course, most murderers aren't sociopaths. ITA, it's one of the few things I managed to learn in law school.:D

Interesting stuff about the spanking studies!! It sounds like fascinating work.

[TinkerBelle]

Every study I've ever seen shows that children who are spanked exhibit more violent behavior. Most violent criminals were spanked and abused during childhood. Funny how these statistics are ignored by the pro spanking crowd. The problem with many kids today is that they are ignorned by their parents, rather than in loving, attached homes where gentle discipline is practiced.



I would not spank and do not like it, but I also do not believe all of those "studies". Because although I do not spank and do not approve of it, to me, there is a big difference between those who give an occasional swat and those who beat the holy heck out of someone.

I would bet that a lot of criminals were either left to their own devices and never taught correctly, or they were beaten.


ETA: I do not believe NOT spanking makes kids kill though. That, to me, is just "out there". I think that criminal activity is caused by many factors in a person's life and psyche. Not just whether they were spanked or not.

[flyingspaghettimama]

All horses are animals does not that mean all animals are horses. But why take a chance?

[TinkerBelle]

All horses are animals does not that mean all animals are horses. But why take a chance?


Good point.