Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children, #8 [Archive]

LeftField

03-17-2006, 07:23 AM

I'm subscribing...

Random update stuff from us, since we're so slack in posting lately...

My 4yr old taught me something about space the other day and I had to subsequently check my understanding with dh. He asked me if he could have a piece of the inside of the sun and when I told him he couldn't, he wanted to know why. When I told him that the sun was gas and fire, he patiently explained, "No, Mama. It's not fire. The man at the Planetarium said it's not fire. It LOOKS like fire, but it's just gas." Hmmm. He really looked like he wasn't paying attention when we went to the Observatory, but apparently *I* was the one not paying attention. BTW, does anyone's kid do this? Dreamer (4yo) often looks like he's completely not listening, like he's staring off into space and zoning out. But he's really listening to absolutely everything and can tell us what we just read or whatnot. I'm sure I've accused him of not paying attention before, but I guess that's what it looks like when he IS paying attention. (?)

His 5th birthday is coming up and I think we're going to buy him an engine kit. The space obsession of last year is just general interest now. His current obsession is automotives, especially engines. I think it started a year ago when he saw the Magic Schoolbus episode on engines. But now, it's the major theme in his drawings and he talks about it all the time. When we get out of the car, he tries to look under it to see if he can see anything good. Let me see if I can find some drawings he did. I'll do that in reply to this, because I have to find them first. His favorite part of the engine are the cylinders and he talks about this stuff ALL the time.

DH has taken him to the automotive museum. Dh works in the office side of automotives, so when he gets a chance to walk around the plant, he describes what he saw at suppertime. We got a GREAT book on cars and engines, one of those DK Eyewitness books. It has tons of photographs of cars and various sub-assemblies taken apart.

So I think that for his birthday, we need to get him that see-through engine kit that's out there (Smithsonian?). Dh would have to put most of it together, but Dreamer would be in heaven just touching the cylinders and various parts. And once it's together, it can be hand-cranked, so he could fire the engine up as much as he wanted. How weird is it that I'm buying my kid an engine for his 5th birthday instead of some toy??

Little Dynamo hasn't been writing so much lately, after he pulled that stunt of writing his name and attempting, "DADDY". I'm not sure what he's been doing. Right now, they're upstairs pretending to go on a trip. They do stuff like this all day, when they're not bickering. It's all imaginary play, although they might argue about the details now that Dynamo (almost 29 months!) no longer follows all of Dreamer's leads. Yesterday, they were arguing, because Dreamer wanted to go to England, but Dynamo was going to Africa; they were almost at the point of tears and I was pulling my hair out. :lol

Here's a question and I don't care what the answer is, just curious. Is it unusual, do you think, for a 29 month old to speak through his toys in a funny voice and have the toys ask me for things that I won't give him? His dinosaur repeatedly asked me for yogurt yesterday, because Dynamo had already had yogurt and he knew I wouldn't give him another. It's this really funny high-pitched voice that cracks me up. Totally OT, but Dreamer's dinosaurs are most definitely strictly "plant-eaters" while Dynamo's all seem to eat people; that goes right with their personalities. They are SO different from each other!

How are you guys all doing?

LeftField

03-17-2006, 07:37 AM

Ok, here are a few braggy pictures.

Here are two of Dreamer's automotive drawings:

This one is of an engine as he imagines it to look. The sketch next to it is the truck that the engine is in. It's an aerial view of the truck with the hood popped.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums
/y6/hrk72/Art/ben_jan06_engine3.jpg

This one is of a car being assembled in a factory. Each sketch is a very specific part of the car. For example, the four things that look like lollipops in the bottom left are cylinders. The two dots at the very top are fog lights.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/hrk72
/Art/ben_feb06_work.jpg

And this one isn't related to automotives at all, but I just liked it. This is Big Ben in London, based on a photograph.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums
/y6/hrk72/Art/ben_jan06_bigben.jpg

He really wants to take an art class at the museum, but I'm nervous about the emphasis on technique for his age. It's a homeschool (i.e. open ages) class, so it seems like they would expect different things from different ages. The typical "kids' art class" format is not working for him, because it's just crafts and he gets frustrated that he has to continually switch projects. He would prefer to spend the whole class just doing one thing, I think. But I'm nervous a class on technique, even for kids, could turn him off. Does anyone have any exp with this?

ETA: Sorry, I had to break my links to get them to show up fully.

eilonwy

03-17-2006, 07:40 AM

I have no idea what a typical attention span is like, I guess... :shrug BeanBean is 40 months old, BooBah is 21 months old, and they can both sit still and listen to a story for a solid hour; they do it on a regular basis. BeanBean has watched movies with his cousins, and aside from once having an accident (he was very involved in whatever it was that they were watching :o) he's had no problems with it. :shrug

ChibiChibi used to have her dolls ask for things that she wasn't allowed to have. :lol I distinctly remember her using this technique from about 19 months on. BeanBean would just go looking on his own. :lol Like, yogurt: we have no way of locking the fridge (I did it, but BooBah built a tower, then BeanBean climbed it and pulled the lock right off with a butter knife!!), so when BeanBean wants yogurt, he just opens the fridge and gets it. Given the opportunity, he will eat half a dozen cups of yogurt before I can even get out of bed... :lol The little punk.

Incidentally, the kids find it very amusing to ask one of us and see if they can get a different answer from the other parent. They rarely (if ever) do, but they still get a kick out of asking. :lol

eilonwy

03-17-2006, 07:48 AM

He really wants to take an art class at the museum, but I'm nervous about the emphasis on technique for his age. It's a homeschool (i.e. open ages) class, so it seems like they would expect different things from different ages. The typical "kids' art class" format is not working for him, because it's just crafts and he gets frustrated that he has to continually switch projects. He would prefer to spend the whole class just doing one thing, I think. But I'm nervous a class on technique, even for kids, could turn him off. Does anyone have any exp with this?

I'd ask if they'd let him do a trial class, and if he likes it, go for it. :thumb It sounds like he knows what he wants, and it could be loads of fun for him. :D

BeanBean is *loving* his art class, by the way. He just really gets a kick out of it. :D They did a whole bunch of projects on the first day and he was all about that.

alegna

03-17-2006, 10:02 AM

Greetings again all. :wave Savannah does that spaced out thing but then remembers everything... it's weird.... She was slow (in my book) to start talking, and often still doesn't (quiet like mama) but then all of a sudden she'll pipe in with something and it's obvious that she's been soaking up everything... Her favorite passtime these days is to find letters around and identify them. Last I checked she can identify at least 7-8 words.... some obvious (cat, dog, fish) some harder and more abstract- play. The little bugger still won't say her own name though :p She KNOWS who Savannah is- will point to herself. She can read her name. But if you ask her her name, the only response she will give is "baby" (when she cares to respond)

We were at a tournament last weekend with lots of people we know, but don't see often, and everyone found it odd to have an opinionated 19mo old :shrug I thought they were all opinionated... but apparently not.

-Angela

Destinye

03-17-2006, 10:49 AM

I just wanted to say thanks for the great book suggestions I was given on this thread. DD (nearly 26 mo now) has been really enjoying Richard Scarry, and the Chica Chica 1, 2, 3 and Boom Boom books as well as developed a love of nursery rhymes, which she sings (badly!) a lot right now, as she seems to be working on her singing, she taught herself the ABC song from a Richard Scarry DVD the other day. We do let her watch DVD's and go to Starfall and other websites normally, but have some guilt about it, but she really enjoys it, plus we have been moving and travelling a lot and it has been helpful with that.

She is definitely sensitive to adult TV though and we are staying with my SIL while we purchase some land to build on, and she watches more TV, so we have to be careful when DD and I come in the room when the TV is on, one day there was a movie of holocaust victims sitting on a train going to a concentration camp, and we came in the room, DD looked at the screen and got very upset and so we turned it off, the weird thing is nobody was saying or doing anything but DD picked up on the emotions.

She is also quite upset about Humpty Dumpty and have to explain he is ok, its not real etc etc.

I am still in the 'waiting to see if she is gifted' mindset, but she just learns like a sponge, its amazing. Knows 12 + colors, shapes, has known the alphabet for a while (18 mo) and counts almost to 20 but is counting numbers of objects now too. She is definitely opinionated though! She was before she was even born - she came to me in a dream and told me emphatically she wanted me to be her mother. She has not changed.

The other day I was trying to leave to go somewhere and she said Mummy Be patient! Oops.

Anyhow thanks for the great suggestions from this thread, they have really helped, and DD is very much interested in reading again. She will sit and 'read' books to herself for an hour or two every day. When she wants me to read to her she brings them but often she does not want me to except at night. I guess its ok she 'reads' by herself.

ChristaN

03-17-2006, 11:57 AM

Thanks for the new thread although I always wonder if I am going to lose people by pulling quotes from the end of the last thread -- nah, I'm underestimating you all, huh?

With that in mind, just to briefly address this:
That said, there could be something totally outside of what you have mentioned (doing algebra, playing an instrument) that would put the child into the "Gifted" category.
No, she can add and subtract basic numbers -- don't know if she can carry or borrow, but nothing beyond that. Her mom mentioned that she was working on 2+__ (numbers up to 10) right now. I do know the math teacher she has, and she's Miss memorization of math facts, though, so her math assignments are boring. She doesn't play any musical instruments and her art work is very age appropriate. Okay... off to another topic.

I know Rynna....so what is the deal? I mean can non-gifted children not listen to these books and remember from reading to reading what has happened? Or maybe it's the content that's too scary or something? I seriously have no clue.
I do think that it is an attention span issue as others have touched on here. I don't think that many of them can follow the story nor maintain an interest long enough to listen to (and thus comprehend) a long story with no pictures.

I do have to admit that my older dd has a longer attention span than my little one, but my younger one (5 y/o) seems perfectly happy to listen to and capable of following the gist of the choose your own adventure stories or whatever else dd#1 and I are tag-team reading together.

I do have a question about my younger one, though, in relation to reading. She is an early reader (by early reader, I mean that she is still in the learning stage, not that she is reading early). She's doing well in relation to her age-peers (reads probably early first grade books), but her capabilities in that department still have her in the "learning to read" books. She has been listening to much more interesting books from her sister and me reading to her for a long time. She finds the books that she is capable of reading boring and she's very unwilling to read most of the time -- just wants us to read to her. I worry, however, that her reading will not improve enough for her to be able to read more interesting books if she doesn't ever "practice," though.

She is really, really good at math, but she is just totally unmotivated about many things and just seems to lack the passion and persistance that her older sister has. I don't know how to ignite that or if I should just not worry about it and not care if she doesn't put any effort into things. This isn't just in relation to academics; she also doesn't practice her dancing for her dance class and if I ask her to do anything, she says that she doesn't like it and doesn't want to do it anymore. I truly don't try to force her into things -- she wanted to dance. She asks for books, she wants whatever it is. Then she does a little bit and decides that she is done. It is just very frustrating to observe as a parent although she is not having any trouble in school or elsewhere. Her bare minimum effort seems to be enough to do well; I just worry about the apathy.

eilonwy

03-17-2006, 12:59 PM

It is just very frustrating to observe as a parent although she is not having any trouble in school or elsewhere. Her bare minimum effort seems to be enough to do well; I just worry about the apathy.

This is, to be frank, one of the reasons that I will never send my children to school. School encourages apathy, particularly in gifted children.

loraxc

03-17-2006, 02:10 PM

mamaverdi

03-17-2006, 02:21 PM

This is, to be frank, one of the reasons that I will never send my children to school. School encourages apathy, particularly in gifted children.

I agree with this. I've seen it with my now six year old. Over and over. It is taking months and months for him to come back to the curious little self he once was. I really wish I had NEVER put him in school.

mv

mamaverdi

03-17-2006, 02:30 PM

He really wants to take an art class at the museum, but I'm nervous about the emphasis on technique for his age. It's a homeschool (i.e. open ages) class, so it seems like they would expect different things from different ages. The typical "kids' art class" format is not working for him, because it's just crafts and he gets frustrated that he has to continually switch projects. He would prefer to spend the whole class just doing one thing, I think. But I'm nervous a class on technique, even for kids, could turn him off. Does anyone have any exp with this?

Why not call and see if you can find out who the teacher is and talk to him/her about how the class is run etc to see if it would be a good fit?

As an artist I sometimes find classes on techinique very very inspiring, no matter my age. Sometimes they're a drag. It depends on the teacher. And whether there is a "right or wrong" mentality.

ChristaN

03-17-2006, 07:29 PM

I can say that Froglet (26 months) would definitely not sit still for a hundred-page book, let alone the Lord of the Rings--at least, I seriously doubt it. She's enjoying listening to easy readers right now, and wants them all the way through (so, maybe 40 pages of brief text?), but I can't see her sitting for something with no pictures and a complex vocabulary. The most difficult stuff she likes, IMO, is actually Beatrix Potter.
From what I have seen this is much more than most 26 month olds would listen to contentedly. The 2-3 year olds whom I currently know like looking at picture books, but won't listen to more than a few words/page. I.e. - they'll listen to a book that has a picture of a ball on a page and the word "ball" or a picture of a baby with the words "baby is smiling."

My girls certainly weren't listening to me read them LOTR at 2 either :lol ! I'd say that they had the attention span for lengthy material like Narnia by about 4.5.

In regard to school turning off my younger dd and making her apathetic, I'm not sure if that is the case. She just has never had the fire and passion that her older sister has. School most certainly did quench that spark for dd #1 last year, but we've really turned things around. With dd#2, she just likes to play and never have anyone tell her how to do anything. Given that she is doing fine in kindergarten (exceeding end of year expectations according to her last report card in Dec.), seems happy enough and doesn't care to really learn anything, I just don't know if I should push it. She's kind of always been this way.

The main reason that she isn't reading better than she is or doing more advanced math isn't b/c she can't (at least I don't think), but b/c she has no interest in anyone teaching her how to do it and she doesn't seek it out herself. I tried to teach her a few things when it became obvious that she could read basic things or do addition/subtraction a year or two ago and she just wasn't interested. I didn't want to force it, so I just kept reading to her and exposing her to stuff but not asking her to do anything. Whenever I actually ask her to do anything, it suddenly becomes unpleasant and she doesn't want anything to do with it. It's amazing to me that the kid is doing as well as she is in kg sometimes especially b/c she is so much younger than the other kids.

allgirls

03-17-2006, 10:04 PM

eilonwy

03-18-2006, 03:15 AM

I wonder how long Sophia could sit and listen to a story if I had the patience to read for long periods of time. I try to...I really do but I just can't stand reading out loud. I read short little stories and she's fine except I have to read about 50 of them...so really, I am not really gaining am I?:lol

I didn't like reading out loud, either, but the kids are so freaking appreciative it's not even funny. They absolutely love it!

The reason that I've been reading books with very short chapters to the kids is that I hate reading out loud; it has a lot less to do with the kids' attention spans than my own.

Mike pointed something out to me when I asked him what he thought of the attention span issue, though, and I think it might be relevant here. He said that when the kids aren't in the mood, I don't try to force stuff on them, and that while they do have exceptional attention spans for their ages, they appear to be even longer because I stop when the kids are finished, instead of when I am. He's absolutely right, but it's not something that I think about consciously these days (probably because the TCS thread long since fell to pieces :lol). So maybe my kids only have average to moderate attention spans the rest of the time? :shrug :lol

SleepyMamaBear

03-18-2006, 05:59 PM

subbing for now. will write more later.
i LOVE reading about everyones kids and what i can potentially look forward to with Addy.
she is currently obsessed with writing and drawing on anything marker will write on. and she waill say "x, m, t, daddy" or "e, m, z, cat" while she writes. it always has an M in it. hrmmmmm. she wants to spell so baddy. she also started walking abound pointing thins out "look mommy, Patters(our dogs name is peterick we call him petters often) puh puh patters" or "mama, emmm emmm mama." not mm mm mama but emm emm... she is such a little mystery. i am letting her take everything at her own pace, and she wants to sound things out and spell so badly i almost want to actively teach her, but i feel it would be kinda pushy, i have such a fear of being one of "those moms" that push their kids.... but then i also fear if i dont encourage her current passions she will lose interest.
like a pp dd i was extremely apathetic growing up. especially in school. i dont want that to happen to Addy, but i can imagine it probably will.
gotta run The Bean is up from nap.

alegna

03-18-2006, 09:54 PM

Cute bit from the other day- Savannah was playing with her alphabet blocks. For a long time she would look at the blocks and sign the different animals and things on them. Then she would say them. Then she'd identify the letters and objects, etc. Well she's just getting interested in numbers too- she pulled one of the number blocks and identified the 4. Then turned it around to a 6. She says "six". Turns it upside down "nine" back around "six" "nine" did it several times. It was like -WOW check this out- it's the same symbol but it means different things depending on where it faces!

AddysMama- Savannah wants to spell too- she has started to be able to tell what letter words start with also.

-Angela

mamaverdi

03-18-2006, 10:12 PM

I agree that attention span is all about interest. Maybe it's that other kids would have longer attention spans if anyone cared what they were interested in? :shrug

Apathy doesn't have to happen. But yeah, it could be in someone's personality. I did see a huge change with The Dragon (my older son) when he started preschool at 3. He wanted to go. I didn't want him to go. A month there and he stopped asking questions. And I got unused to answering them.

Addymama, I don't see anything wrong with directly teaching her something she wants to learn. In fact, I think that's the best time to do it.

Savannah is so quiet, but her little eyes are like WOW, she is listening to what we are saying.

DH and I have taken to speaking French again when both the boys or even just Little Bear (younger ds) are/is around.

After that freaky thing with Little Bear (who was 18 months) wanting us to keep reading Artemis Fowl, it's like, uh oh, what ARE we in for?

Shhhh...they can hear us. :p

mv

alegna

03-18-2006, 11:34 PM

Shhhh...they can hear us. :p

mv

:lol no kidding. Aren't we supposed to get to talk about things above their heads for a couple of years at least? At this rate within a year I won't be able to spell "secret" words without her knowing....

Charles Baudelaire

03-18-2006, 11:43 PM

:lol no kidding. Aren't we supposed to get to talk about things above their heads for a couple of years at least? At this rate within a year I won't be able to spell "secret" words without her knowing....

Probably not. Mine went from being able to figure out N-A-P at about 2.5 to F-A-T-I-G-U-E-D a little later and now understanding what I mean when I say, "She's ready to swim in the river Lethe."

Damn D'Aulaire's Greek Mythology.:mischief

eilonwy

03-19-2006, 10:23 AM

Probably not. Mine went from being able to figure out N-A-P at about 2.5 to F-A-T-I-G-U-E-D a little later and now understanding what I mean when I say, "She's ready to swim in the river Lethe."

Damn D'Aulaire's Greek Mythology.:mischief

:lol I did this when I was a kid and my mother thought that it was perfectly normal, so she'd forget to warn people about it. :lol I still remember being at someone else's house when I was 5 years old; the other mom was having my mom over to watch her 7 year old daughter, and mom brought my brother and myself along (my sisters were at a birthday party, iirc). The other mom said, "Now, the kids are not allowed to have any C-O-O-K-I-E-S OR S-N-A-C-K-S before dinner." I frowned and said, in my lovely, piping voice, "Why can't I have a cookie? I want one!" She about fell over. :lol "Um, your daughter can spell?" "Yeah, she can *read*, she's been doing it for nearly three years now..."

I got the cookie, too. :mischief :lol It was the first time I thought there might be any use to spelling words out loud, which before had just seemed like a stupid thing that grownups did sometimes... :lol

BooBah understands "N-A-P", as does BeanBean (for a loooong time), but Mike does not spell as quickly as I do and the ILs don't understand the concept at all. I still remember spelling something for them when BeanBean was little and when FIL finally figured it out, he blurted it out very loudly, like he was on a freaking game show. :shake I said, "The whole point of spelling it was not to say that word!!! Anyway, I've long since given up on spelling to them. I still try it with Mike on occasion, but the kids get it if I don't go really, really quickly. :lol My mom gets it, and we drop vowels/consonants all the time and spell very quickly over the kids' heads, and that still works on occasion. :mischief Even my sisters, we can start spelling a word and not have to finish it because we know what we're talking about, and that's helpful too when your kid memorizes the sound of the words before they can recognize all of their letters...

So I've been majorly slacking in the home education department lately, because life has been messy and irritating. This hasn't stopped the kids from learning new things, though it has slowed them both down a fair bit. BooBah walks around singing the alphabet to herself, and she still seems desperate to learn to read. BeanBean is making some progress on reading, but without me helping him much I think that BooBah would probably catch up to him by December. :blush Not that it's a bad thing, but it might be a bit strange for him. We haven't done any math at all, but BeanBean has been obsessed with hexagons lately. :shrug He draws them and I'm pretty impressed that they actually have six discernable sides most of the time. :innocent They're not regular, but they're better than my hexagons were before I started organic chemistry and went home to practice drawing hexagons for my notes (I spent three hours on it, much more time than I needed to spend on equations or any actual freaking chemistry!). :lol It's pretty cool. He absolutely loves his art class, and I think he'll be sad when we go to the last one. :o

BooBah's been working very hard on the alphabet and counting. I caught her taping her fingers against the wall and counting "One, two, three, four, five" over and over again last week; when she saw me, she insisted that I do the same thing. "Again! Again!" :lol What a doll. I counted "Five, ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five" once and she just fell over laughing, she thought it was the silliest thing she'd ever heard. :innocent

My mother is very close to pulling my nieces out of school next year. :thumb ChibiChibi's depression is now becoming obvious even to her (and she's totally oblivious to such things) and a family friend who works in the school system has been pressuring her to take them the hell out of there; he says things just get so much worse as you deal with higher levels of the administration. :shake She can see very clearly that BizzyBug has made almost no progress forward this year, and that ChibiChibi doesn't actually learn things in school but when she comes home she can learn the same things on her own quickly and easily. Mom says that she regularly goes to school, then spends an hour and a half in an after school tutoring program with only 5 or 6 other children, and comes home and still doesn't understand her classwork. :shake My sisters both seem to think that this is a failing of Chibi's (they swear that she has ADD; she doesn't.) but it's fairly obvious to me that this is a failing of the teachers, particularly since Chibi is totally capable of learning the material when she's left alone with it for a little while, to say nothing of when she has help that's geared towards *her*. Mom's also ticked off that she doesn't understand how they're trying to teach math. :lol That's a different story, though. She's like, "I know how you learned math, I know how I learned math," and I reminded her quite bluntly that I learned math *at home*, so I have no idea how math was taught in school until I got to calculus (which my mother couldn't teach me) and that was in college, where things are different (better). But yeah, Chibi is very close to being safe from school next year, thank God for small favors.

Now I just need to get my minivan back. Last night at the ILs, we watched some home movies and I could see my van in the background. My eyes started to well up and BeanBean and BooBah were so excited to see it!! I miss my minivan! :bawl

ChristaN

03-19-2006, 12:16 PM

Aren't we supposed to get to talk about things above their heads for a couple of years at least? At this rate within a year I won't be able to spell "secret" words without her knowing....
I have to watch if the kiddos are looking at the screen while I am typing, too, b/c they can read it as fast as I can type it (at least my older has been able to for a few years) and I don't want them to know that I am "talking" about them!

A question -- most of you seem dramatically opposed to public school. While I do agree for the most part, I personally can't homeschool forever. We did for a while last year b/c my older daughter had an awful teacher who just did so much harm to my baby that I want to clobber her to this day. I have to admit that I have a hard time with the motivation of homeschooling and my dh is currently unemployed. I work about 8-10 hrs/week and we are both looking for jobs since we can't get along forever with what we have coming in right now.

In any case, we have just been blessed this year with the wonderful teacher that my older daughter has for second grade. Btwn what we have been doing at home and what she has gotten from this teacher, she has just become a different kid (back to who she was before). She's writing the most beautiful poetry and creative short stories and reading interesting books... We adopted a manatee for the class and the teacher changed the whole science curriculum at the beginning of the year to learning about sirenians of the world. My little one has been in pretty good shape with kindergarten although not as great as my older one. The teacher's aide in my little one's kg really likes dd which is really obvious and really nice. Given that dd is up to 16 months younger than a few of the kids in her class, she is being challenged enough at the moment just due to the developmental/age difference. She's in the top 1/4 of the class academically, but it isn't too easy yet.

I am wondering, since we plan to switch to an independently run charter (not affiliated with the local district) next year, whether any of you have any experiences or better opinions of alternative public schools? Like I said, we haven't been unhappy this year, but I am not confident that the local neighborhood school will be able to meet dds' needs long-term. Despite how much my older dd's teacher has done to accommodate her, the school itself just does not have the programming in place to meet her needs.

The charter will subject accelerate her to 5th grade next year for literacy (she'll be in 3rd) and has a very enriching art program (including musical instruments and dance) as well as Spanish instruction every day. Do you all think that it is basically impossible to have a gifted child's needs met in a public school unless it is a G/T school? I don't know if this charter will entirely do it, but it seems like it has a better chance of making it happen than does the neighborhood school. While I do agree that homeschooling is probably one of the best choices and in no way am negating anyone's opinion that this is the best approach, it just isn't going to happen for us as a permanent solution.

alegna

03-19-2006, 12:27 PM

I taught in public schools (in a g/t program even) and that's what convinced me to homeschool. That said, g/t kids CAN thrive in a public school. They have a much better chance if they are in a g/t program (all day, not pull out) or an alternative school of some sort. A lot of it will depend on what programs are available near you and your child's personality. The g/t kids that as a rule DON'T do well are the ones who have no interest in "good grades" Then it becomes a "discipline problem" when they won't play along and do the busy work (every school has SOME, the key is finding one with as little as possible) It sounds like you have picked a program that could be a good match for your kids. Just be on the lookout for issues and take it one day at a time. The other HUGE problem with g/t kids in the system is when you have LD issues too. The way the system is set up it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get modifications for a g/t LD student.

-Angela

loraxc

03-19-2006, 12:43 PM

ChristaN, we plan on sending Froglet to public school unless we feel we have no alternative. I'm not ready to SAH another 16 years, and I don't believe I actually have it in me to homeschool this kid, unless I move to a magical commune/cohousing community where lots of other groovy, smart adults with the same values as me can help. ;) We are going to be looking hard at all kinds of schools. I have my fingers crossed.

There are a lot of options available to us in our current town--magnet, charters, and a full-day GT program that goes 2nd-6th grade, I think.

eilonwy

03-19-2006, 01:24 PM

I am dramatically opposed to public school, mostly because of my own experiences and because of what I see happening today with my nieces. I used to believe that it might be fine for kids who weren't as different as I was; that it was possible for a moderately/highly gifted child to thrive in public school even as it was impossible for a profoundly gifted one, but watching my nieces has changed my mind about that, too. I don't know what Chibi's IQ is, but I doubt that she falls into the profoundly gifted range and she's obviously having a hell of a time dealing with school and it's crap. I've got a baseline estimate on Bizzy's IQ because she was tested by Early Intervention as part of her kindergarten readiness stuff; she tested out around 125+ (125 at 4 years, 9 months; the test didn't technically have scoring younger than 5 years, 0 months). She's got Asperger's, and while her IQ may eventually prove to be higher than that, I still think it's unlikely that she'll test in the profoundly gifted range (I'm guessing she'll settle out somewhere around 140, and Chibi as well).

At any rate: I've heard that it's possible for a gifted child to do well in school. I've even seen it happen, when the parents are involved and the schools are amenable. In my family, there are other issues which come into play (i.e. racism, poverty) which affect not only the kind of services that the kids can/will recieve, but the attitudes of the teachers and the schools toward special accomodations. In other words, my nieces and my own children would very likely be screwed out of a decent education even if they weren't gifted; giftedness is just one more thing for the school district to fail to deal with appropriately. I can see how home education isn't a viable option for everyone, but in my situation it's really the only way to go, and would be regardless of my kids' IQs.

I have no personal experience with charter schools, but I have considered them. ChibiChibi, for example, would probably thrive in a school that was set up simply to have high expectations of children of color. That's all she needs by way of motivation-- someone to expect the best of her. As far as I know, there are no such schools where my mother lives. I know that there are alternative schools, but none of them seem appropriate for my kids or for my nieces. :shrug Maybe one of these days, I'll try to start a charter school... I dunno. For now, the easiest way to go is definately home education. I'm unwilling to trust anyone else with my kids' future. :shrug

Treasuremapper

03-19-2006, 03:27 PM

I have lurked on this thread from time to time, but now I feel confused. I *think* my daughter is reading, really reading, sounding out the words. She is 30 months old, just turned two and a half. So that really doesn't seem possible. But my husband and my four year old dd think she is reading, too. In fact, my four year old is trying to withhold books from my two year old because she doesn't want her little sister to figure it out before she does.

Am I crazy? Am I delusional? She takes books and makes the sounds the letters make and says them aloud together until she figures out the word. Even books she has not seen before. If she were six, I would be sure she is reading. I'm not talking chapter books, I'm talking little picture books that have visual clues. Maybe she's just figuring out the words with the pictures? Is it possible she is just remembering things?

My husband said that since we are not teaching her, and she's picking it up on her own, we should just stay cool and not make her feel self conscious about it.

alegna

03-19-2006, 04:19 PM

Quite possible. My dd is 19 months and while not sounding words out yet, can clearly recognize in the neighborhood of 15 words without any prompting.

-Angela

eilonwy

03-19-2006, 04:22 PM

I have lurked on this thread from time to time, but now I feel scared. I *think* my daughter is reading, really reading, sounding out the words. She is 30 months old, just turned two and a half. So that really doesn't seem possible. But my husband and my four year old dd think she is reading, too. In fact, my four year old is trying to withhold books from my two year old because she doesn't want her little sister to figure it out before she does.

Am I crazy? Am I delusional? She takes books and makes the sounds the letters make and says them aloud together until she figures out the word. Even books she has not seen before. If she were six, I would be sure she is reading. I'm not talking chapter books, I'm talking little picture books that have visual clues. Maybe she's just figuring out the words with the pictures?

My husband said that since we are not teaching her, and she's picking it up on her own, we should just stay cool and not make her feel self conscious about it.

No you're not crazy. That sort of thing happens, and there's nothing wrong with it. I read well and easily by that age, and while my kids didn't (thus far) there are other kids on this thread who have. My only word of advice is to help the 4-year-old with her feelings about the situation, because that could really screw things up for both of them. It's not fair to withhold books from the baby. It sounds like she needs some special mommy time, and something that's just for her to enjoy. Take the pressure off of both of them, you know?

mamaverdi

03-19-2006, 05:41 PM

I don't see why the baby couldn't be reading. I second the don't withhold books and give the 4 year old some extra attention and speaking to her about it. Mabye it will motivate her to want to learn to read more quickly. I know if my brother had been starting to decode words before me, I would have picked up a book and just started learnign as fast as I could. But I'm competitive like that. :p

mv

ChristaN

03-19-2006, 06:02 PM

ChibiChibi, for example, would probably thrive in a school that was set up simply to have high expectations of children of color. That's all she needs by way of motivation-- someone to expect the best of her. As far as I know, there are no such schools where my mother lives.
:hug I'm sorry. I can't say that I totally understand as I am white, but I feel for you and your kids. We were offered ESL services for dd#1 when we first signed her up (before she had actually started and they had time to see what she could do) b/c my dh is Italian and dds have very Italian sounding names along with dark brown hair, olive toned skin and brown eyes. Somehow that adds up to "hispanic" in the school's eyes as well as some idea that dd couldn't speak english :irked: .

I'd expect that my girls are in the moderately to highly gifted range, too, like your nieces. Although dd#1 tested in the low 130s on the WISC, her processing speed dragged down her score so much that I would expect that she would come out significantly higher if she can bring up her speed w/ OT or VT or whatever! None the less, I don't expect that she is in the profoundly gifted range.

In regard to the little one reading, I, like the others, absolutely believe that she could be. My mother tells me that she bought a bunch of Disney books for my older brother (22 months older) before he started K so that they could read to him and help him get started on reading. He apparently wanted nothing to do with them and I absconded with them all and taught myself to read.

ChristaN

03-19-2006, 06:28 PM

I'm on a posting spree -- sorry!

I was wondering if you (as in the plural "you") believe that is is possible and/or likely to have one gifted child and one average child? I know that I have read that giftedness is often a characteristic of a family not an individual and it is likely that, if one of the family member is gifted, others are as well.

The reason I ask is b/c I just have never been certain that my younger dd is gifted. While she developed almost on the exact same timeline as her older sister, she has always seems much more "normal" or like a regular child than has my older one. From the moment she popped out, dd#1 was very, very different from other babies.

With my younger one, she slept like a regular baby, is pretty easy going and content with life, and doesn't seem to have any amazing abilities. She did say her first two words at 5.5 months (mama and bath). When I'd turn on the water in the tub she'd get excited, point at the tub and say "a bat! a bat!" so it was clearly associated with the bath, not just babbling. She spoke in sentences on the early end (about 14-18 months), walked at an avg age (12.5 months), and started reading easy readers at about 4.5 yrs. She is currently 5 yrs. 5 months and is reading, like I said earlier, probably early first grade books. She is very good at math (can add and subtract numbers up to about 50 and multiply), but otherwise seems kind of "normal" to me.

I don't really care either way, but I don't want to put expectations on her by virtue of what her older sister can do. I also don't want to underestimate her and I realize that some of her development was unusually early.

mamaverdi

03-19-2006, 07:08 PM

Please somebody give me a hug. The Dragon is beyond trying my patience today. He spit in my face. I've yelled at him. I've sent him to his room. This is NOT a good day.

mv

eilonwy

03-19-2006, 07:57 PM

MV, :hug. We've all had those days. :hug

Christa-- I'd keep in mind that giftedness in younger siblings typically presents in different ways than it does in older siblings. It's possible (so I'm told) for families to have children who are gifted and children who are not, but I've never really seen it. I'm told that it happens, particularly with profoundly gifted older children, that younger siblings will find other places to fill in the family rather than try to compete with the older sibling.

Hm. I'm not sure how that would play out, exactly... :scratch I think I read a book about it once, though... :ponder:

mamaverdi

03-19-2006, 07:59 PM

I think a charter school could work. And I think any variation on giftedness is possible. Each child is an individual. Thank Goodness. I don't think I could handle two of The Dragon.

eilonwy

03-19-2006, 08:12 PM

I seriously want to collect data to graph. Data on *anything*, like, start a poll over in Toddlers: How old was your baby when they started to walk? and then break the data down month-by-month, 6-18 (which would cover most, I think)...

It's such a freaky compulsion, it feels almost unwholesome. I used to do this when I was a kid all the time, and I have to wonder if it's not a bit of an OCD flare-up.

alegna

03-19-2006, 09:50 PM

:hug mv That's one fiery dragon you have there. He's feeling wound up probably. Hopefully he settles down for the night.

-Angela

ChristaN

03-19-2006, 10:06 PM

mv, how old is your dragon? My older one could probably fill that role of "dragon" at times, too. I so clearly remember when she was two and three her throwing these huge screaming fits for hours every day -- hitting the walls, trying to choke me, yelling "I'm going to pee on the floor!!!" and then doing it. My family insisted that maybe the peeing on the floor was just an accident :rolleyes . I somehow doubted that given that the kiddo was reliably potty trained at 18 months and screamed her intent to do it before commencing!

I do believe that I wanted to give her away sometimes. They do outgrow the totally obnoxious behavior and just stay high needs in other ways. Here's sending you a big hug and hoping that you can keep it together until he finds some less trying way to drive you up a wall!

ChristaN

03-19-2006, 10:11 PM

I seriously want to collect data to graph. Data on *anything*, like, start a poll over in Toddlers: How old was your baby when they started to walk? and then break the data down month-by-month, 6-18 (which would cover most, I think)...
I used to color code my stuffed animals and line them up in rainbow order. :lol You are not alone!

Other than offending people, the one problem that I see with such a poll is that people tend to misrecall things to the way they wish it was I have found. The mother of the child I mentioned at the end of the last thread insists that both of her kids were speaking in sentences at 18 months. We were literally around these kids 4-5 days/week (enough that one called me "udder mama") and I am certain that they weren't speaking in sentences until at least 2 1/2. I found the same thing when I attended playgroups with my older one. There was this intense competition going on in regard to whose baby/toddler did what first and moms tended to exaggerate their own children's development.

Shiloh

03-19-2006, 10:54 PM

If you define what you mean by 'crawling', 'talking', 'walking' some people for example think a kid that takes a step is 'walking' me I think if you can get up, walk, stop, walk, then safely sit you are walking on your own.

LOL about the recolections I used to think my bestfriends mom smoked crack when she told me he was running in his 8th month, until my ds walked did the same thing.... I just don't tell people when he hit his milestones as they think I am one of those strange braggy moms.....

I was wondering if you (as in the plural "you") believe that is is possible and/or likely to have one gifted child and one average child? I know that I have read that giftedness is often a characteristic of a family not an individual and it is likely that, if one of the family member is gifted, others are as well.

Very likely, but its about definitions I think. We all have our strengths don't discount a kid cause they are quiet, etc. There are many talents like artistic, or athletic that don't come out until a child is well over 12. Brains are all different, my ds1 is definetly gifted in every sense of the traditional def. He's outgoing, and shows you what he's up to. Ds2 is very laid back, but he has words at 15 months that show a very different understanding of people, ownership (lol being the 3rd child he had the words pees share down by 12 months) also if you are gifted, and you have a child who is gifted your 'average' child might be very bright compared to average. Its about perception as well.

All that being said, dh is gifted, so was....lol mommy brain so 'am i'...
but then there are things I don't have as I am dyslexic my spelling sux.... My father is extremely bright, with the same thirst for knowledge of anything I have. My mother finished her physics, pure mathematics degrees by the age of 19....My sister is bright but not gifted.

We also have many people in the family that skipped 2-3 grades. (more remarkable when you realise none of them spoke english going into school) That for me was more 'normal'. But I don't think its about family dynamics as I have seen families try to pull out gifted kids out of their brood... that are happy normal kids... people think gifted is 'better' when they haven't experienced it ;) I think gifted is how your brain is wired, I couldn't be 'average' if I tried my brain needs food constantly. Just the way someone how is artistic might be thinking of ways to change their environment, to pretty up an object.

I've also read that gifted has more to do with mom than dad, not sure if it was the x chrom or the parenting... But we all know acomplished men who marry 'trophy wives' and their kids usually don't end up exceeding their dads...and on the other hand many women marry 'beneath' them ...and you don't see the same... their kids tend to do better in my experience

mamaverdi

03-20-2006, 12:09 AM

Oh the weather plays a part. And today he was running a small fever, so I kept him inside. But geez, you'd think he could have one day inside and not turn into a nut. AND I found out that Daddy decided to let him watch Star Wars III so Daddy could take a nap. Last time that turned into violent behavior too. ARGGGGGGGGGGG.

Oh man, sometimes I want to give him way too. Or go live on an island by myself for just a little while. Maybe Jack and Annie could lend me their tree house and I could escape, but it would only seem like a few minutes that I was gone.

I need to find some other kids The Dragon can play with. Our neighborboy is no good. And when they play together we get the same violent outbursts for days and days. It's like he's toxic and just spills all over The Dragon.

But where to find little homeschooled boys who are equally bright and not crazy religious parents in S. TX? Still wondering about that one.

OT: But Alison I LOVE your sig.

mv

nini2033a

03-20-2006, 12:48 AM

allgirls

03-20-2006, 08:49 AM

just catching up on the new thread and wanting to say :wave

Older kids are back to school after March break :banana...I don't know how you homeschoolers do it. of course I am considering hsingh the younger ones but I don't think I can do it with older kids..they take up so much room :LOL

I have happy little kids here. It's been a good week. Sophia seems happier...we are doing a few playgroups...the Friday one is somewhat structured and this week was cooking..she absolutely loved it. They made rainbow toast and tea bisquits. Sophia was the littlest one at the table...the other kids her age don't seem to have the attention span to sit there for half an hour. She's quite a little joiner and takes turns and listens to instructions. The leaders are quite taken with her. My DH came home Friday and by Friday night his eyes were rolling...she talks and talks and talks. She never stops. She gets in bed and it's "mommy, I have a question for you" "mommy I need to talk to you about something" and on and on. Honestly...her conversations are more interesting and detailed than many adults I know. I forget she's just 33 mos old.

Martina is playing patty cake...she started about a month ago..I thought maybe it was a coincidence but nope...she claps her hands and "sings" after you do it. She is 4.5 mos now. She's my earliest patty-caker :lol She is pretty bright for sure. She is now scooting...lifts her butt up and pushes forward..quite determined. I thought she was pretty mellow and laid back but I am seeing some quiet determination going on in there.

I wish all of us lived near each other...can you imagine how much our kids would enjoy and learn from each other...it would be so fun...and tiring...

But it would be quite the playgroup!

Cheers
Carolyn

Shiloh

03-20-2006, 11:02 AM

Subbing~ although I honestly haven't thought of my child as gifted. I guess he could be, my older 2 teens are both bored silly in honors classes, and the eldest has been doing it all working with an autism spectrum disorder that until kept her on an IEP, (She just graduated out of SP ED because they said they cant help her any)and the little guy is far advanced of where his sisters were at this age. I have just thought of him as pulling me along and running me ragged until all hours, wanting to learn from 7am till midnight.
Great to meet you all
Nini

I'd guess you were/are gifted and that might be clouding how you see your kids.... just a thought ;) People who are average are easly impressed with their kids accomplishments, when people say to me oh he can do that? In my mind I keep thinking yeah but I/dh/sibling did that earlier...I think in gifted families gifted becomes the norm....

Okay my poll question.
1. are you gifted?
2. is dp gifted?

darien

03-20-2006, 11:47 AM

OTMomma

03-20-2006, 12:17 PM

Okay my poll question.
1. are you gifted?
2. is dp gifted?

Dh is gifted. I cheated my way into the gifted program in hs (got my dance teacher to write a note I was gifted in dance after I didn't pull the IQ score to get it):lol

Darien- I think finding a gifted child who is laid back is more dependent on the adult asking the question than the child. For example- my dd was a high needs baby, but because of my temperment and my expectations of parenthood- I didn't think of her as difficult until we hit the toddler stage. But by then she was talking, I mean demanding, and I had other friends who talked about how their kids played indepently! Anyway, I think my next kid could be a real intense high need kid, and if he or she is just slightly less high needs than dd was, I'll think I have an easy baby. Even though someone else would use the lable high needs. I don't think all gifted kids are high needs, but I do think they all take a lot of parenting, if you are already geared up to do that kind of parenting though, it probably comes naturally.

Shiloh

03-20-2006, 12:21 PM

Moi.
I was so laid back from in uetero... My second child is very laid back, the first one....all fire. I personally think observers are more intelligent in the classic sense than many do'ers. Also I think bright kids figure out mom pretty quickly so an hour temper tatrum they know isn't going to work and is too much energy...

I realized that the more gifted kids I know do seem to be some combo of intense/sensitive/needy (above "normal" amounts).

Anyone want to be my proof?
I'd say my husband is your intetense type gifted. But ds and I are more laid back, socially friendly but not limelight hoggers, but def. sensitive but internally not externally expressed.

I don't think most gifted people are needy, lol in the needs that could be met! Most very gifted that I have known tend to be the sensitive, introspective, wall flower leave me alone to my geekdom types.
The type of people who actively seek to stay off radar.
As to decloak creates attention which is usually not positive most gifted people want to share ideas, concepts, mental sex not show their achievements off, so I'd actually say many gifted people I know would be laid back, in their own world unless its safe to come out and play...most gifted are more humble about what they do can do, as thats in the past there's something new to chase.

But as a kid I spent most of my days alone wandering in the back forest, with my cat, my sketch book, camera and a book ( and snacks if I remembered). Gifted people I believe learn to be content with their inner worlds as they don't really expect the outside world to be logical or meet their needs. very gifted kids are not always traditionally motivated, they aren't thinking about benchmarks, grades, they are thinking about world peace, fair taxation systems...

Shiloh

03-20-2006, 12:24 PM

OT mama but are you gifted?
IQ tests don't mean much always I think they can pick out the top 2% easily if your strengths are spacial, geometry, problem solving etc. But thats a subsection of intelligence...

Dh is gifted. I cheated my way into the gifted program in hs (got my dance teacher to write a note I was gifted in dance after I didn't pull the IQ score to get it)
Here we don't have gifted in dance therefore gifted academically programmes they are seperate... did that allow you into gifted intellectual programmes? I am confused. How many kids would get into gifted programmes out of 100 then?

OTMomma

03-20-2006, 12:32 PM

I went to a very tiny school. They had one very simple gifted program at the highschool level that was done as a club- all kids gifted in IQ or the arts were in one program, and most of those kids were my friends. We had a few special field trips each year and a weekly meeting with more opportunities to do things other kids didn't have access to. It was weird. I'm not sure if I'm gifted- don't be offended, but I seem to like and understand people way more than most gifted people I know. I did speak at 6 months, if that counts for anything. I was one of those kids that was a day dreamer, bored at school, but entertained myself with reading books during class. Teachers never cared since I wasn't a disruption. But I don't feel like my brain "works differently", the way I see my dh's.

Shiloh

03-20-2006, 12:47 PM

I think many female gifted tend to be better balanced brain wise than men.. so that socially we are often able to go from one group to another easily. I too love people I find them all so interesting, I am the counsellor/counsel of some sorts to practically all of my friends.. I am more of a generalist, I seek mental stimulation, my dh is a genius he seeks to know all in the guru sense of what he loves - his single passion and reason for being *Besides me and the kids is = computers, and he does but he can't take that speciality too far away from that expertise....
Me I am great at math and science but my passions are more in comparative religion, world history, politics, cultures, anthropology, geology....dh would be happy never to pick up anything but computer journals... not a newspaper.

I'm not sure if I'm gifted- don't be offended, but I seem to like and understand people way more than most gifted people I know. I did speak at 6 months, if that counts for anything. I was one of those kids that was a day dreamer, bored at school, but entertained myself with reading books during class. Teachers never cared since I wasn't a disruption. But I don't feel like my brain "works differently", the way I see my dh's.

Daffodil

03-20-2006, 01:32 PM

My DD is pretty mellow - the kind of kid who gets called "well-behaved." If I tell her not to do something, she doesn't do it (and she was the same way as a 1 yr old and a 2 yr old.) She's never had what I would call a real tantrum, and she doesn't tend to "get into things" - climb up on tables and counters, grab things in stores, randomly rummage through stuff and throw it around.

But she does tend to be sensitive. She had pretty severe, long-lasting stranger anxiety as a baby and young toddler. It really bothers her if anyone acts the least bit angry at her, or just cautions her seriously about something.

I think she demands more attention from us than a lot of kids her age, though I don't really know what's normal there. She's constantly saying, "Talk to me!" And she has never been a good sleeper. Up until she was 1 1/2, she still rarely slept more than 2 hours at a stretch. At 3, she still often wakes at least once during the night. She wasn't content to be set down much as a baby, either, and wasn't generally happy in the sling unless I was in constant motion. And she nursed a LOT. I didn't think of her as a high-needs baby, but she sure wasn't as easy as my second is turning out to be. (He seems pretty darn mellow so far, but he's only 3 1/2 months, so who knows?)

So does she sound mellow enough to be proof? I think my sister and one of my brothers were mellow kids, too. I wasn't, though I wasn't a real holy terror either. (We were all gifted.)

To answer Shiloh's poll question, I'm gifted, according to the IQ test I was given as a kid. DP is probably gifted, but was never formally identified as such.

loraxc

03-20-2006, 02:13 PM

1. are you gifted?
2. is dp gifted?

I was in the GT program at school, but from what my parents tell me I squeaked in under the wire, so I'd say I'm only mildly gifted. My verbal scores were off the chart, but my spatial scores were very low. Nowadays they'd probably say I had an LD--and maybe I do...

My DH didn't have any gifted programs where he grew up. He taught himself to read, like me, and did well enough in math that they "ran out" of classes for him in high school, but he was never considered "gifted" in the same way as his very type-A older sister, who skipped a grade and almost skipped another. He underachieved in high school and was more into his electric guitar and black leather jacket than his grades. Nonetheless, his near-perfect (and I do mean that) SAT and GRE scores give one pause. I fully believe he'd test moderately or highly gifted. I think he's smarter than I am, and honestly I suspect that Froglet is smarter than either of us. :bag:

About gifted kids and intensity: I go back and forth on this for my own kid. She is emotionally intense, easily frustrated, and perfectionist. At the same time, she is outgoing (with adults and older kids--not with toddlers, though), full of joy, and listens well to directions. I can trust her to follow rules very well, and like Daffodil's DD, she absolutely never has been one to "get into stuff" or be destructive. She does indeed tantrum, but most of the time her tantrums are about her being unable to do something the way she wants to :( or her having her freedom curtailed in some way (eg, she needs a diaper change, or we need to leave someplace fun). One thing about Froglet, too: she needs a lot of sleep, and usually gets it. I won't say that we haven't had sleep struggles--we have, but they are mostly resolved. She STTN about 85% of the time and takes long naps every day. Absolutely can't skip a nap. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that she needs MORE sleep than the average kid.

OTMomma

03-20-2006, 03:36 PM

alegna

03-20-2006, 03:53 PM

My dd is mellow as a rule (watch out for the temper tantrums though!) And quiet. If you were just around her once in awhile you'd probably not see anything out of the ordinary about her.

-Angela

Daffodil

03-20-2006, 04:03 PM

Darien- you might want to post what you think is an "easy going kid". To me, it would be a kid that you could leave with another family for the weekend, and when you got back they wouldn't say "Oh, my Goodness! I don't know how you DO it". :lol Without leaving a book of instructions I mean.
And I would LOVE to know if anyone has one of those here!?
Oh, I definitely have one of those. I haven't actually left her with anyone else for that long, but I'm sure if I did they would say she was perfectly well-behaved and sweet and caused no problems at all. My sister is always telling me how amazingly mellow and easy Lindy is compared to her kids at the same age, or other kids she's known.

LeftField

03-20-2006, 06:43 PM

subbing.

I have a question... anyone have "easy" or "mellow" gifted kids? A good friend told me recently she thinks her dd2 isn't as smart as her dd1-- partly because dd2 is not nearly as tempermental as dd1!

I wanted to refute her idea that gifted=high need, but I couldn't come up with an example! My kids are high-need poster children. :lol I know lots of bright, easygoing kids, but once I thought about it, I realized that the more gifted kids I know do seem to be some combo of intense/sensitive/needy (above "normal" amounts).

Anyone want to be my proof? :)

My oldest was always extremely mellow and easy-going. He never got into things, didn't throw a tantrum until he was 3, slept really well, was super-easy in public and was just very content to just be sitting somewhere. Of course, while he was sitting there, he was observing everything in great detail and thinking. I remember people commenting on how easy he was and trying to reassure me (??) by saying, "Oh, you can see those wheels turning in his little head. He'll talk/walk/etc when he's ready." Then, when he did those things, he did them all at once. He's very cautious and does not try things unless he's properly scoped them out, thought out it, ruled out risks and determined that he can do it successfully the first time. He is very thoughtful and deliberate. He had a weird sense of what was appropriate, so I trusted him in other parts of the house by himself. As a 1yr old, he was most often found sitting in the study looking at his books or dh's computer manuals , anything that looked interesting.

There are many talents like artistic, or athletic that don't come out until a child is well over 12.

Artistic talent comes out well before age 12, from what I've seen. Although the waters get muddy, because there are some (I forget that author's name!, Rynna might remember) that think artistic talent can exist in the absence of giftedness. So when you have a child (like mine) that draws with perspective and occlusion at age 3, that could be an average child demonstrating artistic talent or it could be a gifted child demonstrating advanced level of thought through art who will grow up to be normal in artistic areas. Clear as mud? :)

On another subject, I agree with what you said about perception, in that we are influenced by what we know and what we're around. I know that my perception of typical is skewed, because I have limited experience with children and it's very specific experiences. Like, my niece spoke at 9 months. At 10 months, when she was walking by one day, I asked her to say, "Uncle" for my dh and right after my sister said she couldn't say it, she said, "Unkoo!! Unkoo!" and then proceeded to call my dh, "Unkoo firstname". I thought that was normal. I was dismayed when my son didn't speak like that (or walk) at 9 or 10 months. I thought he was delayed. When my youngest pointed out a trapezoid before he was 2, I did not and really still don't think that it was that unusual, because I'm influenced by my limited, specific exp with children. Christa, I'm amazed that your child announced "bath" at 5 months old. That would have blown me away, because mine didn't talk at all before 12 months (and one not until 22 months). I think that must be well above average, like amazingly above average. :)

darien

03-20-2006, 08:04 PM

loraxc

03-20-2006, 08:48 PM

To me, it would be a kid that you could leave with another family for the weekend, and when you got back they wouldn't say "Oh, my Goodness! I don't know how you DO it".

Well, I'll just say this:

That would NOT be my child.

My MIL is in town, and I get the idea that she is basically terrified to be alone with Froglet. ;) Of course, she IS being exceptionally "two" this week.

allgirls

03-20-2006, 08:58 PM

For the poll..yes...I tested at age 10..and it was high...at least that's what I was told. :lol My DH..is for sure..I don't think he was tested though...of course I don't tell people irl my IQ and have never told him so maybe he just never mentioned.

My father was for sure. My MIL is well read and intelligent but not gifted. As is my FIL. My mother is average intelligence. My brother and sister are above average intelligence but not gifted. But my father's family...brothers, sisters are very smart with a few gifted(there are 12 of them) and I have some cousins who are freaky brilliant. One wrote an essay for a contest and won 25,000 at age 12 or something like that. I was amazing. He is well educated now and lives in Ottawa. I saw him and his wife when they were pregnant with their baby and they were all into babywearing, breastfeeding..him as much as her...I thought..."yeah, he really is as smart as they all say":lol

My older kids are highly intelligent...but not gifted I think. Their dad was of average intelligence although mostly I think he's an eejit.

I was never in gifted classes...I grew up thinking I was smart for our little town, then I moved away and still couldn't find any smart people...I have one friend who is very very smart. And then there are you guys:wink

I always feel wierd...but I had a good father, good childhood, and hid my wierdness well. I was often accused of being a know it all when I thought something was common knowledge but apparantly wasn't. It made me hold back a bit. I talked about "things" to my dad that no one else knew about...my father taught himself Latin as a young teenager...yep he was different:lol

Ok..i have babbled on enough.

bedtime for me and baby

cheers

Shiloh

03-20-2006, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Shiloh
There are many talents like artistic, or athletic that don't come out until a child is well over 12.

Artistic talent comes out well before age 12, from what I've seen. From what I have seen the buds are there but artistic talent is honed, like physical sports my ex's family are all gifted artists so I've watched 10+ people in the family go and I think the basics are there but compared to math its not as visible always. But from seeing my ex's (we went to school together) and the family's body of works they had talent before that age but you 'knew' it about highschool age when the good eye, good at drawing really blossomed when I guess they find their own styles, mediums etc.

Although the waters get muddy, because there are some (I forget that author's name!, Rynna might remember) that think artistic talent can exist in the absence of giftedness.
I think that it defn can exist without it, just like autistic kids can often do genius type things it doesn't make them intellectually gifted....

So when you have a child (like mine) that draws with perspective and occlusion at age 3, that could be an average child demonstrating artistic talent or it could be a gifted child demonstrating advanced level of thought through art who will grow up to be normal in artistic areas. Clear as mud? Or it could be an amazing talent for spacial perceptions aka a great architect, engineer not an artist... lol me no artistic talent, no fine motor skills...

nini2033a

03-20-2006, 09:23 PM

ok, I wouldn't even know what the definition actually is, I was tested with an IQ of 145 some 35 or so years ago. My daughter with Aspergers is within 10 points of mine, the other 2 kids have never been tested. I assume that puts us in a healthy average. I do know that we are both very visual and creative people, she writes amazing stories, I am a photographer by trade, we both pick up accents and languages without even trying.
But We are also, all of us fairly laid back, thats not to say there aren't explosions, or tantrums, but when they occur, they are over and done with quickly and we move on. My 3 year old will throw fits, when he can't do something perfectly or when we have to leave somewhere really fun, but they last maybe 60 seconds, then he says he is sorry and maybe how about we can do xxx when we get home instead? SO I consider that pretty laid back. He also shares well, and is very empathic about others feelings.
Nini

TiredX2

03-20-2006, 10:46 PM

ok, I wouldn't even know what the definition actually is, I was tested with an IQ of 145 some 35 or so years ago. My daughter with Aspergers is within 10 points of mine, the other 2 kids have never been tested. I assume that puts us in a healthy average.

Just so you know, on most IQ tests the average is 100 with a 15-16 point standard deviation.

This site considers "genius" to be 140+ and states that appx .25% of the population would have a IQ of 140+:
http://www.wilderdom.com/intelligence/IQWhatScoresMean.html

:shrug

nini2033a

03-20-2006, 11:09 PM

well then, a large part also depends on what you do with it. I never finished college, never got a degree, although I went for a total of over 7 years, but kept changing my areas of interest. Everytime I came close to a major, I switched and started over, Business French, Museum Studies, Art, History, Business, finally, decided to work without a degree with severe needs children, this was before having my own kids, great preparation for my eldest though, and then went on to open my own photography studio when I was a divorced Mom supporting 2 kids in CO. Now I am happily a SAHM running after all 3 kids (17,15, and 3.5) trying to keep up. But except for the continual searching and questing for things, not sure what I've done with the IQ. SOmetimes it might have been nice to not question everything and settle down to an "easy normal life" does that really exist?!?
Nini

allgirls

03-21-2006, 06:26 AM

I think my dd is pretty easy going...but I think if someone else were to watch her they wouldn't agree:lol because I know her sensitivities, her needs and I understand her so well. I find lots of times she will ask for something and others don't understand her well..it's because her speech is not completely clear and she uses vocabulary that they are not expecting.

I know most people who know her age talk down to her. The guy who owns the general store here is very nice, makes a big fuss over her etc. but sometimes she gives him a look when he asks her things like "do you know my name?' and it's like she's thinking "of course I know your name, are you an idiot" but I think it's because she's shy with him so he doesn't realise that she knows his name and birth date because she asked his wife.:lol

When I first came on here I kept doubting that she was actually gifted because she was so mellow...but she isn't really..she's a sponge...she's quiet because she's thinking, wheels are always turning...she's actually quite intense and sensitive...but because she was quiet we mistook it for calm. She can also be quite highly anxious.

Also she's fairly easy to discipline because she has good impulse control and her understanding is so deep. I just explain why to her and she pretty much gets it. However she will not blindly follow. I can imagine if she had parents who just expected obedience she would be a handful for them because she needs to know why things are happening and why she should/shouldn't be doing certain things before she will go along. We have always explained so she is used to that.

I think gifted kids come in all sorts of temperaments/personality types. Just like all kids.

nini2033a~welcome...yeah, I can't settle down to one thing either. I too am a SAHM and I think I am going to start stretching my artistic side. I am investing in some paint and 2 easels..one for me, one for Sophia so we can paint together. I figure this will be a great outlet for both of us and something we can do together.

One thing that I have noticed...questions...my dd asks a ton of questions...all day long, all night long...she never stops...and sometimes I don't know the answers:lol so we have to look it up or occasionally I make it up:wink

My DH got home Friday and she talked non-stop to him from the times she got up until late into the night..we were all in bed and she said "can I ask you a question" and we both started :lol because she had already asked a zillion that day.

eilonwy

03-21-2006, 08:45 AM

Wow, lots of chatting :). I've only skimmed, because BeanBean is really odd this morning and BooBah is doing something... :scratch

Anyway: Am I gifted? Yeah, I guess so. Is Mike? More likely than not. I've told Mike my IQ, and we've talked about this a fair bit (when I get onto a research kick, I often drag Mike along for the ride). I asked him if he thought he was gifted and he said, "Smart yes, but I don't know about gifted. I think I know where my IQ would fall if I was tested." "Okay. If I told you that an IQ of 130 would qualify you for most gifted programs, what would you say then?" His eyes got huge-- he was sure that "gifted" meant much more than 130. :lol The way I estimate things, and Mike agrees, my IQ is at least as far above his as his is above average. Not that anyone can tell these days; I'm nine months pregnant, and my brain is made of tapioca... on good days. :rolleyes :lol

Amongst my siblings, the IQs are very high for the most part. The "slowest" of us are in the 155-165 range; of the five of us, three are considered profoundly gifted. My mother's IQ was most recently tested at 165, and I don't know about my father... :shrug I do know that my older brother's father is very smart, but not as smart as my mother. He's just attracted to women who are smarter than he is. :lol

My mother's grandchildren are all very bright, though as I said before only BizzyBug has been formally tested. They all stand out in a crowd, though, except for my nephew who has been in a really, really bad situation for most of his life ( :guilty ).

Mellow kids-- my kids aren't really high needs. I mean, they're both very needy today, but it probably has more to do with all the crap going on in my life than anything else. They've always been pretty easy and fairly low-maintenance. ChibiChibi was also a very easy, mellow baby. :thumb So yeah, it can definately happen!

When they see us out and about in public, rather than "I don't know how you do it!" I get comments like, "If I knew that they'd be like yours, I'd want four kids, too!" :lol I've had many, many people tell me that my children make them want to have more babies, even after they thought they were finished. :lol So I guess that they'd fall into the "easy baby/child" category. :lol

It made me wonder, though. I remember someone saying that to me when BooBah was about 5 months old, and we were still in the midst of finding out what was going on with her kidneys, she had all of these issues... my mother said, "That's one of those things you just can't say to people. I mean, think about how much work she's been, and all the stuff you're going through with her... sure, she's got a great personality, she's very mellow and easy-going, and she's absolutely adorable, but wouldn't you trade a bit of colic for all the doctor's visits somedays?" I had to agree that I would; it's gut-wrenching to see your infant become so accustomed to having blood drawn that they see a big rubber band and hold their arm out expectantly. I'd rather put up with a few sleepless nights than some of the things I went through with BooBah in her first 6 months... :shake

I also have to say that having a nine month old who can walk can be really frustrating, I'd rather have a later walker any day.... especially when they climb, too. :shake :lol By the time she was a year old, we had taken the baby gate down because BooBah could climb right over it, and I was sure she'd hurt herself eventually. :shake Insane. BeanBean walked right on time, a week short of his first birthday, and that was early enough for me. :lol It's crazy, but he had a bit more danger sense than she did... not much, he'd still walk out into the street, but he wouldn't *run* into the street, nor would he climb anything that held still long enough. :lol

Shiloh

03-21-2006, 11:13 AM

This site considers "genius" to be 140+ and states that appx .25% of the population would have a IQ of 140+:
I guess I am a genius but why couldn't I have a waist size in the lower .25%?
Life just isn't fair big brains and a big bum...

nini
well then, a large part also depends on what you do with it. I never finished college, never got a degree, although I went for a total of over 7 years, but kept changing my areas of interest. Everytime I came close to a major, I switched and started over, Business French, Museum Studies, Art, History, Business, finally, decided to work without a degree with severe needs children, this was before having my own kids, great preparation for my eldest though, and then went on to open my own photography studio when I was a divorced Mom supporting 2 kids in CO. Now I am happily a SAHM running after all 3 kids (17,15, and 3.5) trying to keep up. But except for the continual searching and questing for things, not sure what I've done with the IQ.

oh my god nini you are me!!!
7 years uni, 1 year college finished nothing 3 credits away why finish!
and dh just bought me a nikon d70 for my birthday

not sure what I've done with the IQ
mom. I am making great little people and loving it...motivation like why do I need to share my talents? My family wants me to start writing again...what for? I write little funnnies for my friends they pee themselves that makes me happy getting $200 bucks would not...

nini2033a

03-21-2006, 11:36 AM

I guess I was lucky in the early walking thing,,,, Arthur didn't walk until 15 months. At his 4 month check up we suddenly had to go thru a battery of tests, because while his weight was 70%, and his length was 90% same as when he was born, his head circumference had shot up to approximately 110%. His little head is huge. It looks big on his body still at almost 4 years old, it is clearly bigger than all the other kids his age, in fact when we recently bought him a bike helmet so he could try skating, we had to buy an adult sized helmet to fit him. They ran all sorts of test, and nothing is wrong, he just has a big head, so we have always joked that it meant he had a big brain,,,,but it pulled him off balance for the longest time. Until he was about 2, if his head got going in the wrong direction, there was no stopping the rest of his little body from following....
Nini

loraxc

03-21-2006, 01:59 PM

I can imagine if she had parents who just expected obedience she would be a handful for them because she needs to know why things are happening and why she should/shouldn't be doing certain things before she will go along.

Oh, absolutely--this is so true of Froglet too! It's a good thing she got born to parents who believe in explaining the "why"s of discipline. She responds incredibly well to MOST rules if they are well explained, but if not...forget about it. My MIL was just here for a week (where's the "exhausted, but jubilant that she's gone" smiley?) and I could just hear her thinking "Just say NO and be done with it!" at me, but "No" does not work with this kid. It has to be "You don't want to put those strawberries in your hair, because it will get sticky, and then it will bother you, and you'll want me to wash it out....but you don't like having your hair washed, remember? Okay." :lol

eilonwy

03-21-2006, 02:10 PM

Oh, absolutely--this is so true of Froglet too! It's a good thing she got born to parents who believe in explaining the "why"s of discipline. She responds incredibly well to MOST rules if they are well explained, but if not...forget about it.

This is a huge problem that Mike and I have with FIL. We spend a lot of time and energy trying to explain it to him. We also spend a lot of time trying to get him to *ask* things of BeanBean, rather than tell him to do things. I don't understand why it's so difficult; he already knows first hand that it never worked to tell Mike to do things, but that he always did things for his mother because she asked rather than told... but he just can't seem to wrap his head around it. I heard Mike just last week telling his dad, "Did you try *asking* Bean to cooperate with you? I heard you *telling* him, but that's not the same thing. He doesn't appreciate being told what to do for no reason other than that you're bigger than he is, he thinks that's silly and he's right, it is. Try *asking* him, and explaining why you're asking..." But we've been going through this every week pretty much since BeanBean started crawling/cruising. :rolleyes :lol

(where's the "exhausted, but jubilant that she's gone" smiley?)

Perhaps this is the smilie you're looking for: :bouncy

ChristaN

03-21-2006, 02:17 PM

My oldest didn't walk until 15 months either. She observed until she was sure she could do it right and then stood up and started walking like she had always been doing it. I also have two big-headed kiddos. My 5 y/o is very small (dh is 5'6" and my family is mostly very, very short too), but her head is quite large. At the last ped. visit where they were still measuring head circumference, she was in like the 5th percentile for height, 10th for weight and 95th for head size. Poor kid. She doesn't look as disproportionate as it would sound and my dh tells me not to tell her that she has a mondo head so that she doesn't get a complex :lol .

As far as the, 'are you gifted?' poll, I would assume so. I was given the WAIS exam when I was 17 but never told the results. I do know that I did very well on two of the subtests b/c the tester's mouth kept dropping open and she kept saying things like, "I've never seen anyone do that so fast!" My GRE scores easily got me into Mensa, but I don't know exactly 'how' smart/gifted I am. As far as dh is concerned, I'm not sure, but I would suspect not. He's definitely smarter than he gives himself credit for, but again, I don't know how smart. He's never been tested, squeaked through school as a B and C student, the same at community college. He's very introverted like my older dd and a very slow processor (again like dd, but she's not as slow as he is). If he were truly dim, though, I imagine that we wouldn't get along very well b/c we'd have very little about which to talk.

I think that I read something recently about people having an "IQ tolerance" of about 15 points. If someone is much more than that far away from you in terms of IQ, you have a hard time having a long-term meaningful relationship with that person.

The comment that someone made a while back about brain wiring running on the mom's side of the family is interesting and I have heard something similar before. I know that my mother and maternal grandmother are/were very bright women as well. My grandmother skipped two grades in elementary school and graduated from highschool at 15 in the 1930s.

eilonwy

03-21-2006, 02:29 PM

I think that I read something recently about people having an "IQ tolerance" of about 15 points. If someone is much more than that far away from you in terms of IQ, you have a hard time having a long-term meaningful relationship with that person.

Hm. Maybe that would explain the "affair" that I've been having with my best friend. :mischief There's no way that Mike and I are within 15 points of one another... not even close. :shake It's been frustrating for me in the past, but I think that we've grown past it in most ways. This came up on the Gifted Adults thread, though, and that's probably where any further discussion of it would belong (from me, at any rate).

The comment that someone made a while back about brain wiring running on the mom's side of the family is interesting and I have heard something similar before. I know that my mother and maternal grandmother are/were very bright women as well. My grandmother skipped two grades in elementary school and graduated from highschool at 15 in the 1930s.

OMG, mine too! My mother's mother not only graduated from high school at 15, she graduated from college at 18. My mom didn't skip grades, but she started school at 4 (her birthday's in February). She probably would have done more with her life if her father hadn't died around her 14th birthday... :shake

The thing is, the women in my family have gone for men who were slow enough to be easily controlled in a lot of ways. :bag: My sister's ex, for example (Chibi & Bizzy's father); my sister chose him not because she liked him or because he was interesting to talk to, but because she could control him totally (and she did, until he went totally insane). The two of them didn't have much in common at all, they never did, but my sister decided that she wanted to get pregnant at 14 and he was stupid enough for her to run her plans without any interference. :eyesroll Her boyfriend prior to that had insisted on using condoms, imagine the nerve of him. :eyesroll :shake

Mike is not nearly as slow as my sister's ex, not even close... but he doesn't understand me all the time when I speak. :blush Well, I've gotten better at it, but in the beginning when I'd talk to my best friend, Mike could sit in the same room and our conversation would just sail over his head... but I was happy, because Mike was (is!) very good to me. He's a good man, and he's not an ass (most of the time :p). Mike's worth my time and energy, even if he doesn't even pretend to keep up with me when it comes to matters of nerdliness. :lol And I'm worth it to him, apparently. :love

ChristaN

03-21-2006, 02:44 PM

Mike is not nearly as slow as my sister's ex, not even close... but he doesn't understand me all the time when I speak. :blush Well, I've gotten better at it, but in the beginning when I'd talk to my best friend, Mike could sit in the same room and our conversation would just sail over his head... but I was happy, because Mike was (is!) very good to me. He's a good man, and he's not an ass (most of the time :p). Mike's worth my time and energy, even if he doesn't even pretend to keep up with me when it comes to matters of nerdliness. :lol And I'm worth it to him, apparently. :love
I guess that I'll have to check out that gifted adults tribe in order to not totally side-track the purpose of this thread. I just wanted to say that's pretty much where we're at in my house, too. I admit to getting quite frustrated w/ dh at times b/c he doesn't understand me when I am explaining things to him at times. That and he is short tempered and not too great with the kids. Maybe I need to be seeking help in the parents as partners area :lol ! He does have a lot of positive points like your dh, too, though.

I do wonder if I have done my girls a disservice with the genetics from that side of the family at times though -- there are a lot of serious illnesses running on dh's side along with different brain wiring. So, I'm always happy to hear that my genes count for more. If that is the case, they should be pretty bright and live into their 90s even if they do decide to pick up smoking and heavy duty soda drinking habits.

eilonwy

03-21-2006, 03:08 PM

I do wonder if I have done my girls a disservice with the genetics from that side of the family at times though -- there are a lot of serious illnesses running on dh's side along with different brain wiring. So, I'm always happy to hear that my genes count for more. If that is the case, they should be pretty bright and live into their 90s even if they do decide to pick up smoking and heavy duty soda drinking habits.

I've often wondered a bit about this, especially since Mike, while nothing like me or any of my family members brain-wise, is quite obviously one of the smartest people in his extended family on either side. It's almost scary... :shake Then again, they have incredibly long lifespans, for the most part, while my family has had several members drop dead of heart disease before the age of 50...in some cases, *long* before 50. We've also got lots of mental illness, where as the mental illnesses that run in Mike's family are different and, somehow, more contained.

I came to the conclusion that I would never have stayed with Mike and agreed to have children with him if I wasn't (at least on some level) very ambivalent about giftedness, especially profound giftedness. It took me a long time to figure this out about myself; I always thought that I, like most of society, thought that when it came to intelligence more = better. Taking a long, hard look at myself and my choices in life, I can see that by the time I was 23 years old, I really didn't believe it anymore. :shrug Certainly not by the time I got pregnant with BeanBean, though I did worry briefly about him (I was spending more time with the ILs, and sometimes listening to FIL speak would really, really get me worrying about BeanBean's potential intellect.... :blush :shake :tiptoe) before he was born. I was quite relieved when he looked me square in the eye when I first saw him, and when he turned to the sound of my voice and tracked Mike across the room. I guess I felt like he was smart enough. When he started talking so early, I got worried again, but that's a different story.

It wasn't altruism that caused me to let go of that notion that smarter=better, either. I think it was more learning about giftedness, and realizing that so many of the things about my childhood (and adolescence) that were difficult wouldn't have been problems if I'd been more average in the brain department. Learning that existential depression doesn't even happen to normal adults, to say nothing of children, that was a real eye-opener for me... :o I think a lot of factors came into play, and something just gelled in my mind-- I wanted my kids to be bright enough to do well at anything that they wanted to do, but not so bright that they were paralyzed by their minds at times, or mentally isolated from other children/adults outside of the family to the same extent that I was. That must have played a role in my decision to stick with Mike, rather than do what I'd originally planned (have a baby with my best friend... which I'd still like to do some day, just to see what would happen; is that screwed up or what?! :blush) with my life.

ChristaN

03-21-2006, 03:31 PM

I do understand although I don't suspect that I am anywhere near profoundly gifted. I just remember being so overwhelmingly depressed as a child and teen and lacking the life experience with which to process it in a way other than, 'I don't want to be here at all any more if life is this painful.' I remember sitting outside under a tree when I was in my teens writing in my journal on my musings about whether I would rather be happy as a fool, as the saying goes. I imagined that it would never be as satisfying as having been born that way (without the existential angst) b/c we would remember what we knew and felt before and perhaps maintain the pain without the ability.

While I want my girls to be bright, I do have mixed feelings as well and do wonder if it is possible to have the intense intellect without the intense emotions. It doesn't seem so. I think that, ultimately, is what makes me wonder about whether my 5 y/o is gifted -- she's intense, but not in the same way as my older one. Likewise the question that was recently posed here about having mellow gifted children. It seems almost counter-intuitive to have a child (or adult) whose brain is wired in such a way as to be super intelligent but not emotionally disturbed to some extent. Perhaps some of your children have been blessed in that way, though. Maybe that's what we should call twice-exceptional: happy and gifted!

It is so heart wrenching to see how much my 7 y/o can suffer b/c I remember being that child. And I remember not only believing that the pain would never end, but also not seeing any purpose to the emotional pain. While I do still suffer from depression at times, just being alive longer has given me the ability to muddle through without seriously considering throwing myself in front of a train. I have also somehow managed to convince myself that there is some soul growth that I need to find in this life and that I would likely have to just go back and do it all over again if I were to die prematurely. The idea that you can't just escape it somehow makes it easier to continue because there is no other option!

Shiloh

03-21-2006, 05:13 PM

While I want my girls to be bright, I do have mixed feelings as well and do wonder if it is possible to have the intense intellect without the intense emotions. It doesn't seem so. I think that, ultimately, is what makes me wonder about whether my 5 y/o is gifted -- she's intense, but not in the same way as my older one. Likewise the question that was recently posed here about having mellow gifted children. It seems almost counter-intuitive to have a child (or adult) whose brain is wired in such a way as to be super intelligent but not emotionally disturbed to some extent. Perhaps some of your children have been blessed in that way, though. Maybe that's what we should call twice-exceptional: happy and gifted!

I think gifted people as small children understand and process more. From world peace, to aparthied I think gifted kids feel negative things deeply as they have more of an adult understanding but childlike emmotions... and then the whole fish out of water thing.

I think you can have intense emmotions that are internal not externally expressed. But maybe mellow gifted is more depressive not agressive gifted//

eilonwy

03-21-2006, 06:07 PM

Maybe that's what we should call twice-exceptional: happy and gifted!

:lol I'm sure it's possible to be happy and gifted... surely there exists an exception to prove the rule. Maybe by keeping BeanBean out of school, I'll get to see it up close and personal. :shy :lol

allgirls

03-22-2006, 07:45 AM

:lol I'm sure it's possible to be happy and gifted... surely there exists an exception to prove the rule. Maybe by keeping BeanBean out of school, I'll get to see it up close and personal. :shy :lol

Oh..I hope so...I know even now my kids have an advantage I didn't have. They have a mother who tries to understand them. And a father too..guess he counts.:wink

I am trying to get a more organised system of "schooling" going...Sophia learns so much from play but I like to do something more structured especially since she refused to go to preschool yesterday...she protested for 2 days and refused completely yesterday so I kept her home...she napped...she was so tired.

There is a Montessori school nearby...but they start at 2.5 and I am trying to keep her out of school until she's 5. What to do. I know I am not cut out for homeschooling. And I want to work again some day.

So we are "reading" now..she is recognising some sight words. She is interested...she is so intense with the books...she stares at the words like she is trying to see through the page:lol

I guess right now I am homeschooling:blush :)

eilonwy

03-22-2006, 08:47 AM

I know I am not cut out for homeschooling. And I want to work again some day.

I hear this sort of thing a lot, and I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, but why? I understand that sometimes people can't or don't want to homeschool, but in certain situations... well, I personally can't understand how keeping some children out of school wouldn't become a major priority. I know it's personal, so if you don't want to explain that's fine, but I'm very curious-- Why do you think you're not cut out for homeschooling?

ChristaN

03-22-2006, 09:21 AM

Oh..I hope so...I know even now my kids have an advantage I didn't have. They have a mother who tries to understand them. And a father too..guess he counts.:wink
That's my hope, too -- that having a parent who empathizes and validates the feelings will help. I so clearly remember telling my mother when I was 8 or 9 that I was depressed. I remember her response verbatim: "no, you're not. You don't know what it feels like to be depressed." She truly thought that children couldn't be depressed. She does acknowledge that she was wrong now and has apologized, but at the time, all that I knew was that I couldn't talk to her and that maybe I was just crazy.

I hear this sort of thing a lot, and I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, but why? I understand that sometimes people can't or don't want to homeschool, but in certain situations... well, I personally can't understand how keeping some children out of school wouldn't become a major priority. I know it's personal, so if you don't want to explain that's fine, but I'm very curious-- Why do you think you're not cut out for homeschooling?
I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I thought that I'd respond as well since I'm kind of in the same spot. For us the major reasons why I will not be homeschooling (although I have a bit in the past) include:
* Dh has much lower earning potential than I do and we need me to work from a financial perspective. I didn't work at all for the first couple of years after dds were born and have worked only a few hours/week for the past few years. They are in K and 2nd now and I aim to get up to about 20 hrs/week in the next year. We've tossed around the idea of my working ft and dh working part time or not at all and doing the kid stuff, but he would be simply awful at homeschooling and honestly just isn't good with the kids. He also has spending problems and would overspend when home more (I've definitely seen this in the past few months since he's been unemployed and I hope that he'll stop buying large ticket items once he gets back to work and has less time to shop).
* Dh and I disagree on a lot of things in regard to parenting and he would never go for it. His approach is more parenting through fear. I do 95% of the parenting in order to keep him from screaming at the kids and threatening to hit them with wooden spoons. I've managed to talk him into those things that I feel are absolutely necessary by basically not asking him to do any of it -- we coslept (I did all of the nighttime getting up for years and didn't ask him to), extended bf (again, obviously my input here), no spanking (I just don't let him near the kids when they are bothering him and do all of the "discipline" otherwise he'd be hitting them), etc. It would be a huge fight on long term homeschooling and I would not want to create a home environment and lifestyle choices that one member of the family didn't buy into especially on this one b/c it would require his active involvement (if only in providing all of the financial support for the family in order to make it happen). I need some support -- I can't do everything by myself.
* I am honestly kind of lonely and find work to be a bit of a social outlet. I haven't been able to find much of a network of other moms with whom I have much in common. I am really culturally misplaced (liberal vegan from the coast and in the middle of conservative rancher country). When I was homeschooling at the end of last year, we tried doing stuff with the local homeschooling groups. It just didn't click. One is very religious, Christian based (dh is agnostic and I am Buddhist) and the other, although secular, had members who were very different from myself. I just didn't relate to any of them and felt isolated. I need community. I love my girls and plan to be very actively involved in their schooling, but I don't know if I want to take full responsibility for doing it all since I don't do the best job when I am depressed and lonely.

Sorry so long!

eilonwy

03-22-2006, 04:27 PM

Makes sense, thanks for the answer. Goodness, I don't know how I'd handle parenting without Mike and I being on the same page... it sucks enough coming from entirely different religious perspectives!

allgirls

03-22-2006, 04:49 PM

I hear this sort of thing a lot, and I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, but why? I understand that sometimes people can't or don't want to homeschool, but in certain situations... well, I personally can't understand how keeping some children out of school wouldn't become a major priority. I know it's personal, so if you don't want to explain that's fine, but I'm very curious-- Why do you think you're not cut out for homeschooling?

Because I would get bored. I am fine being home with the kids now, while they are little but it's not stimulating enough for me. Some days it's drudgery for me. I am not so good with older kids as I am with younger ones. Plus I want my DH to be able to be home more and I want to work again. I am on my own most of the time and it's really hard. In order for me to be home with the kids now, he has to be gone a lot. I don't want this life forever.

Eventually, as the children get older I want some of my life back, I want to pursue my own interests, go to University etc.

and we are financially in a situation where we have alternatives. We can afford to pay people who are more suited to the job to teach.

And I am too lazy...I am not good with self-discipline..I just wouldn't get around to it.

and I have to be honest...I am not sure that here there isn't something appropriate in the public school system for my dd. While not ideal I think the public schools here (small town, Ontario) are not so terrible and I am pretty good at advocating:lol when things aren't ideal.

But we have yet to cross that bridge.

and this quote rings true for meas well~except for the westcoast part~I am fron the east coast:)

"I am honestly kind of lonely and find work to be a bit of a social outlet. I haven't been able to find much of a network of other moms with whom I have much in common. I am really culturally misplaced (liberal vegan from the coast and in the middle of conservative rancher country). When I was homeschooling at the end of last year, we tried doing stuff with the local homeschooling groups. It just didn't click. One is very religious, Christian based (dh is agnostic and I am Buddhist) and the other, although secular, had members who were very different from myself. I just didn't relate to any of them and felt isolated. I need community. I love my girls and plan to be very actively involved in their schooling, but I don't know if I want to take full responsibility for doing it all since I don't do the best job when I am depressed and lonely."

ChristaN

03-22-2006, 05:35 PM

Makes sense, thanks for the answer. Goodness, I don't know how I'd handle parenting without Mike and I being on the same page... it sucks enough coming from entirely different religious perspectives! I know. I do connect with him on many issues (political, cultural, and some others that aren't coming to mind at the moment :lol ), but the parenting thing is very difficult. We had kids quite early into our relationship -- bc really didn't work for us. I single parented it for the first 2 1/2 years while attending grad school while he stayed on the west coast and worked and sent me $$.

Once he moved out here for good, the major differences of opinion about parenting surfaced. He was 40 when our first dd was born and had been orphaned since the age of 13. He was pretty used to living by himself and no one messing up the house or bothering him. His family is also kind of neurotic and he is no exception. He just has a short fuse with the kids. While I, too, was raised in a punitive parenting environment, I want to do differently for my girls. It is a great disappointment to me that we can't truly co-parent b/c I don't trust him to do right by our kids.

I've thought of leaving honestly, but I don't know if our relationship is that bad (his and mine when we are only talking about us the adults), but us the whole family including the kids just isn't what I would like it to be. I would love to have him totally agree with me on what our girls need, but it doesn't look likely to happen. I guess that I have settled for him letting me run the show and him not interfering. It is a disappointment, though, and I would like the kids to be able to be closer to their father. I am glad that, at least, I have managed to AP myself and keep his anger issues away from them enough that they are not afraid of him the way that I was of my father. I did feel very abandoned by my mother when she simply did nothing when my father was screaming at me and shaking me against walls.