IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ THE ENTIRE THREAD, RECAPS ON PAGES 22, 24, 26 and 29

Please feel free to quote from other sources such as mainstream parenting boards, family and friends.


Here's quotes from pediatricians at my former practice:

"You'd better stay away from the mall."

"You'll have to bring the baby before visiting hours so that you don't put any of my patients at risk."


Here's a common remark from parents IRL: "My pediatrician said they took mercury out of the MMR, so it's safe now."


.

My Ped didn't give me any scaremongering. I was simply told to vax or get out. No discussion what so ever. :irked:

My Ped didn't give me any scaremongering. I was simply told to vax or get out. No discussion what so ever. :irked:


"Vax or get out" certainly sounds like a scare tactic to me, no matter how it's phrased. You'd be surprised how many parents cave after that sort of comment unfortunately.

I was very lucky. My peds didn't AGREE with me on the vax issue, but they respected my choice to delay vaccination until after age 2. The vaccine recomendations were repeated to me at each WBV, which got annoying, but I didn't get any stupidity such as "don't expose your child to our other patients."

I'm not sure how they would have reacted if I'd chosen not to vaccinate at all. I'm also not sure how they would have reacted if my extended family hadn't been with this practice for over 30 years. First my brothers and I, then my cousins were born before we outgrew the ped, then I returned to NY with my 2 kids (my cousins are 11 and 17 and still go there,) so by the time DS was born we were REALLY established with that practice! I've been there longer than many of the current doctors!

"Babies NEED ALL of the vaccines on the recommended schedule."

"Breastfeeding does not protect you child against these diseases."

"There is an outbreak of pertussis less than 2 hours from here, so even if you get no other ones today, I highly recommend you get her at least this one."

when i asked one of the peds in the practice about formaldehyde, she said she didnt know there was any in there.

At my babe's 2 week appointment, my first ped told me that a newborn's immune system is the strongest the first six months and needed vaccines to make it even stronger, but I didn't believe her and went elsewhere.

The second told me that the diseases are still out there killing people and the only protection is vaccination. I haven't been back since my son's 4 month appointment, so I don't know how her attitude might have changed as I told her I was still researching. I was still uncomfortable with it all at that time, but now know bringing my healthy, breastfed baby there is pointless.

"I've seen babies LOSE LIMBS because they got chicken pox. Its a very important vaccine to get"

"There are no studies showing long term negative effects from vaccines." uh, yeah. Could that be because there are no long term studies? lol When I said something like that, she said I was right.

She said that the 3rd dose of HIB only offered a few months of protection- but the 4th dose gave longterm protection (didn't really say that. More like she implied it)

My Ped didn't give me any scaremongering. I was simply told to vax or get out. No discussion what so ever. :irked:

Wait--weren't you the one who wrote that great letter to your ped? And she "fired" you?

(Forgive me if I have you confused with someone else :o )

From my ped:

There's no more mercury in vaccines than there is in a can of tuna.

You're not thinking that vaccines caused your son's autism, are you?

But we've managed to eradicate so many deadly diseases.

I'll admit, a Hep B vax is probably not necessary - and most people don't need a flu shot. But diptheria and pertussis, definitely!

Wait--weren't you the one who wrote that great letter to your ped? And she "fired" you?

(Forgive me if I have you confused with someone else :o )

That was a different ani.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=429982&page=3&highlight=letter+friend

I wonder whatever happened with that?

Wait--weren't you the one who wrote that great letter to your ped? And she "fired" you?

(Forgive me if I have you confused with someone else :o )

Nope that wasn't me. At my daughters two week appointment I was given a letter saying if I didn't plan to vax I should find a different doctor before my next visit as they have collectively decided that they will no longer see patients who break the trust shared between the doctor and the patient. And by not following their recommendations you are saying you don't trust them therefore go away. Or something to that effect. I had already been with the practice for 5 years and it pissed me off but I never went back after that. (well actually once because my older daughter broke her hand and the new doc wouldn't see her because SHE hadn't been seen there yet even though everyone else had. :irked: )

From my ped:

There's no more mercury in vaccines than there is in a can of tuna.


And I don't freaking eat tuna either. Or any fish for that matter because I don't trust the FDA actually knows what it is talking about. :irked:

Here's my all-time favorite:

When I asked our pedi for medical journal articles on the subject--"You wouldn't understand what they're talking about." Hmmmm---last time I checked, I was literate :irked: .

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=401467&highlight=doctor

"The state mandates vaccinations..."

"People that don't vaccinate can have their children taken away from them..."

"A rash, fever and extreme irritability 10 days after an MMR shot? No, couldn't be related to the vaccine. Must just be a virus." (Rash, fever and fussiness 10 -14 days afterward is actually one of the most common side effects of the MMR vaccine)

I just got back from a seminar and they now recommend that kids should be sick when they get their vaccines. It makes their immune system work harder and gives better immunity."

It's better for a child to be on antibiotics when they recieve shots.

Do you want your child to die of the measles ? If not , get this shot.

By not vaccinating you are putting the entire population at risk

Children are like cars. They need regular tune ups and additives to make them run right.

At the ER after dd's birth it was stressed," You know by declining the hepatitis B vaccine your child could DIE?!?!!" Ofcourse they said that after each thing I declined.
An previous ped said I would have to get her the vaccines to get into school.

"I'm concerned about you delaying your son's DTaP shot until after 4months. If anyone in your family gets a cough, I really think you should come in and get it!"

And just the general "Your sources aren't reliable" and "There's no risk involved with getting vaccinations".

From my ped:

There's no more mercury in vaccines than there is in a can of tuna.



yeah we eat tuna giving the body atleast the benefit of the liver and kidneys ... you'd think a ped would know that, oh wait they don't know much about nutrition :lol

It's immoral to not get vaccines and expose your child to dangerous diseases.

Said in response to my flat, firm "we are religiously opposed to vaccinations" stance.

My oldest dd's first pediatrician told me that "recent studies have shown that a baby can get 10,000 shots in one day and their bodies can handle it." Unfortunately, I believed her and let her vax my baby for nearly a year.

My oldest dd's first pediatrician told me that "recent studies have shown that a baby can get 10,000 shots in one day and their bodies can handle it." Unfortunately, I believed her and let her vax my baby for nearly a year.

:spitdrink :scratch I would LOVE to know where she thinks they'd get that :scared kind of data?! :jaw :jaw :jaw

I would LOVE to know where she thinks they'd get that :scared kind of data?!

From our very own CDC/Merck mouthpiece, Dr. Paul Offit: http://www.webmd.com/content/article/25/3606_1147

At the ER after dd's birth it was stressed," You know by declining the hepatitis B vaccine your child could DIE?!?!!"

Because your days-old baby is going to be sharing needles with drug addicts and having unprotected sex?

:eyesroll

From our very own CDC/Merck mouthpiece, Dr. Paul Offit: http://www.webmd.com/content/article/25/3606_1147

Oooh! The arrogance and misinformation just make me want to :Puke

After expressing my concerns about a family history of seizures following the DTP, my doctor spoke to an infectious disease doctor and asked about the possibility of my son having a seizure following the DTaP...he told her it was a 0% chance. He should really let the drug manufacturer know cause I'm sure they'd love to change their package insert which clearly states the risks of neurological reactions including seizures.

"It's against the law not to vaccinate."

"I'm going to have to talk to the Health Department to see what I need to do in your situation."

"He'll get sick if you don't vaccinate."

"He'll get others sick if you don't vaccinate."

"If you won't vaccinate, then you cannot be apart of this practice anymore--it's too much of a risk for our other patients."

"You're fortunate to never have seen these diseases. I've seen them. Babies die from Diptheria and Pertussis"

"Don't you trust me?"

"I've been in practice for 25 years and I've never seen a negative vaccine reaction other than a fever"

"There's no Mercury in our vaccines."

...We obviously left that practice!! :lol

From our very own CDC/Merck mouthpiece, Dr. Paul Offit: http://www.webmd.com/content/article/25/3606_1147

That link is ridiculous :rolleyes

I love how the pp's ped referred to that as "recent studies" :laugh:

"If your child hasn't had whooping cough by the time he/she is five, you have to get the DTP vaccine, because older kids getting wc after they are five is really dangerous. They could die."

and

"Tetnaus is deadly, if you get it, you're going to die."

And this was uttered by a supposedly "alternative" and non vax friendly family doctor.

It's the stupid moms like you who don't vaccinate that are going to get everyone else sick and die. Said by an ex friend when I asked what her problem was with me lately (this was awhile back).

Cause it's stupid moms like you who don't vaccinate. They ruin it for everyone else. Said by the same person in response to, "If vaccines are so great why are you worried about my one unvaccinated child giving you something?"

She did just fine. Maybe your so called reactions are cause you aren't healthy. Not cause you got vaccines. Those make you healthy. Same girl in response to the fact that we have had reactions (in DH) and that not all reactions are immediately visible.

My oldest dd's first pediatrician told me that "recent studies have shown that a baby can get 10,000 shots in one day and their bodies can handle it." Unfortunately, I believed her and let her vax my baby for nearly a year.
But she didn't really even say what Offit is saying. The link given in a pp says "Offit and colleagues calculate that infants could theoretically respond to as many as 10,000 vaccines at one time."
and I thought I read somewhere (on the aap site?) that the 10,000 number was the number of antigens (is that the right word I'm looking for?) that a baby's immune system could handle. It didn't take into account the toxins in the vaccines.

So, even though she read the studies, she quoted them wrong, and was giving wrong info.

"you'll have to give your child the meningococcal B vaccine because I've had 6 cases of meningococcal invasive disease just this year alone in my practice."

This was said by a doctor to a mother who had elected to not give that shot, after her husband who was with her said, "Well there aren't many cases of it anymore".

They got worried, but rang me, and I was able to find out for them that there hadn't been even 6 cases in the whole medical district that doctor was under...covering 350,000 people, according to official statistics, for this year so far!

That doctor probably won't see 6 cases in his whole life!

People who don't vax should have their kids taken away and given to people who actually LOVE them

You know you have to homeschool because by law you have to have vaxes for school

"That doesn't count as a bad reaction to a vaccine"... in response to me refusing further vaccinations for my daughter after she had a fever of 105 and convulsions from the MMR.

That link is ridiculous :rolleyes

I love how the pp's ped referred to that as "recent studies" :laugh:

actually...my dd was born in 2002 - so at the time it was a "recent study".

*sigh*

my baby is getting so big.

"That doesn't count as a bad reaction to a vaccine"... in response to me refusing further vaccinations for my daughter after she had a fever of 105 and convulsions from the MMR.<< shudder >>

Said to my baby: "You don't want to get meningitis and die, do you? Do you, now? No, that's a good baby. So let's give you a shot so you don't die."

No!!! Are you serious Artisan??? :yikes:

I've had doctors directly negatively address my children before too.

They got worried, but rang me, and I was able to find out for them that there hadn't been even 6 cases in the whole medical district that doctor was under...covering 350,000 people, according to official statistics, for this year so far!

That doctor probably won't see 6 cases in his whole life!

Did you tell this to them while they were still in the dr's office? I would have LOVED to have seen him recover from that one.

Said to my baby: "You don't want to get meningitis and die, do you? Do you, now? No, that's a good baby. So let's give you a shot so you don't die."

Last words that doc would ever speak to MY kid!!!

People who don't vax should have their kids taken away and given to people who actually LOVE them


disgusting.

"That doesn't count as a bad reaction to a vaccine"... in response to me refusing further vaccinations for my daughter after she had a fever of 105 and convulsions from the MMR.

"well, since that wasn't a *bad* reaction, we'll decline them so that we don't have anything worse then what we've already experienced."

Said to my baby: "You don't want to get meningitis and die, do you? Do you, now? No, that's a good baby. So let's give you a shot so you don't die."

oh . my . gosh!:angry

"I've seen babies die of Hib. It's a horrible disease. Why just last week..."
I can't remember the details. I'm sure I tuned them out but you can imagine the suffering all those children with Hib went through.

I actually like my ped. She's a nurse practitioner. Generally very supportive. Hardly gives me any grief. But sometimes she comes out with some real winning comments. Recently she asked me if I was one of those "militant" breastfeeders. I told her yes. She said that she had a mom who was being pressured to bf and didn't want to because she had been sexually abused. Now I realize that that happens and it's a legit reason not to bf but hardly a common reason not to bf. I doubt that the majority of formula is sold to women who were sexually abused.

S

Well, 1 in 4 women by age 18 have been sexually abused, so a lot of that formula is going to survivors. I wonder what else they can't do . . . wash their daughters' genitals? teach them about sex? Show physical affection?How did they get pg, anyway?

As for HiB. My MD told us about a girl she knew when she was little, who died of it. It scared me a lot and was one of the reasons we gave dd the first 2 rounds of vaxes. Now that I think about it, I realize there was a reason she went back 20 or 30 years to find her example. That's the only one she had.

After discussion which said doctor lost:

Him. "You are a mere mother, whose never been to med school, not studied epidemiology, or got a degree in statistics, public health or immunology."

Me. "Oh. Therefore I have no brain? And ..... you've studied epidemiology, got a degree in statistics, public health and immunology?"

silence.

Me. "You are just a GP who went to med school, did three hours of nutrition, five on immunisation, and weren't taught how to diagnose diphtheria because you don't need to know how because there is a vaccine. So exactly how much do you know?"

"You are just a GP who went to med school, did three hours of nutrition, five on immunisation, and weren't taught how to diagnose diphtheria because you don't need to know how because there is a vaccine. So exactly how much do you know?"

If only I could be so eloquent!!!!:bow :clap :bow :clap

"I'm surprised the state has not stepped in to place her in another home until her vaxs are up to date"
And
"We have 3 cases of measles and 9 cases of mumps in Bryan County"
My ped heard the later and told her that there were no cases of either.

I also heard her in the hallway telling the dr
"This baby has not had a check up since he was 6 months old, 6 months, I told her she had to come in to day and get the rest of his shots"
We are leaving the ped's practice.
Amanda

At my babe's 2 week appointment, my first ped told me that a newborn's immune system is the strongest the first six months and needed vaccines to make it even stronger,


From a mother on another board:
"The doctor said "You've just got to understand, by mass vaccinating we are saving so many, but there are going to be LOSSES. Your son is one of them, and you just need to accept it."

Me: "We have a long family history of neruopathologies that are associated with vax reactions and autoimmune disease:

Doc: "Your family history is irrelevant when it come to the decision to immunize."

Me: "But, aren't some children more likely to be in that percentage who have vax reactions? So shouldn't we look at the likelihood of a reaction for my particular child?"

Doc: "We vaccinate all children regardless of their particular medical histories."

Me: "They why do the vax manufacturers publish contraindications?"

Doc: "Oh, the fed gov just requires them to publish those for liability reasons."

Me:"Why are they concerned about liability?"

Doc: "So they are not blamed when a child is injured following a vaccine."

Me: "So some children are injured by vaccines?"

Doc: "Well....no..., well, some children have particular medical histories that need to be considered."

Me: "But, you just told me that you don't take particular medical histories into account?"

Doc: (Here's the clincher) "We don't see those types of children in the Ct suburbs, only in the inner cities, so we do not need to know medical history before vaccinating."

Doc "You have to vaccinate. It's against the law not to."

The next appt. I brought him in a copy of the law. To which he said "oh".

From a mother on another board:
"The doctor said "You've just got to understand, by mass vaccinating we are saving so many, but there are going to be LOSSES. Your son is one of them, and you just need to accept it."

Oh. My. God. :bawl:

When dd1 was a year old, the ped told me, "Chicken pox is a very serious disease. If you don't vaccinate her, she could catch it and die."

I said, "I had it, my brother had it, everyone I knew had it...my best friend's mom had a big party so the whole class could catch it. No one died. Everyone got lots of ice cream."

She said, "Well, it's more serious now." :scratch:

Then I brought out my big gun. I said, "well, my dad is a pedi for over 35 years and an infectious disease specialist. He refuses to give this vaccine unless the parent specifically requests it or the child reaches puberty without contracting CP and the parent requests it. He has not seen convincing studies authored by anyone other than Merck that attest to its long term effectiveness and he thinks it inhibits lifelong immunity to varicella."

She had nothing to say after that. (It's true, btw).

She had nothing to say after that. (It's true, btw).

I wish I could have seen the look on her face :lol.

the ped told me, "Chicken pox is a very serious disease. If you don't vaccinate her, she could catch it and die."

I said, "I had it, my brother had it, everyone I knew had it...my best friend's mom had a big party so the whole class could catch it. No one died. Everyone got lots of ice cream."

She said, "Well, it's more serious now." :scratch:


:lol
:lol
:lol

Even the vaxers must have some stories!!!! Keep 'em comin ladies!!!

I wish I could have seen the look on her face :lol.

She's a notorious grumpus sourpuss. Her regular "look" can chill blood, never mind her aggravated look. :lol

Oddly however, she was the most knowledgeable ped in the practice vis a vis breastfeeding and food intolerances/allergies and was *extremely* helpful WRT elimination diets, preserving the bf'ing relationship in the midst of a very difficult colic/intolerance situation (dd1). She's way into extended bf'ing.

So this was a bit of a shock.

She's a notorious grumpus sourpuss.

the "other" ob in the practice i used with tig's pregnancy was like that.

she had the bedside manner of a doorknob, i oftne wondered why she didnt become a medical examiner or something instead of working with living people.

:hug to all you brave parents!
I guess I was lucky. My ped was the one who suggested not to vaccinate if I was choosing to breastfeed.
He is also the one, before internet existed, to show me how to use the library to research vaccinations/immunizations so that I could make an informed and educated decision.

I read a lot! And came to the same conclusion as my Doctor, and have never vax'd my children.

The only times I was kicked out of a doctor's office was when I refused a vaginal/pelvic exam. I was pregnant with my third, and had given birth vaginally in the past. I had not broken my pelvis nor had any reason to indicate my pelvis had changed. Why would I allow some stranger to make sure I had a vagina and the "right' type of pelvis, if I had already proven I was pregnant and had the medical records to prove I had given birth vaginally?

One doctor even turned red in the face and yelled at me "If you want an unconventional Doctor, then you need to leave right now!"

:hug to all you brave parents!
I guess I was lucky. My ped was the one who suggested not to vaccinate if I was choosing to breastfeed.
He is also the one, before internet existed, to show me how to use the library to research vaccinations/immunizations so that I could make an informed and educated decision.

I read a lot! And came to the same conclusion as my Doctor, and have never vax'd my children.

The only times I was kicked out of a doctor's office was when I refused a vaginal/pelvic exam. I was pregnant with my third, and had given birth vaginally in the past. I had not broken my pelvis nor had any reason to indicate my pelvis had changed. Why would I allow some stranger to make sure I had a vagina and the "right' type of pelvis, if I had already proven I was pregnant and had the medical records to prove I had given birth vaginally?

One doctor even turned red in the face and yelled at me "If you want an unconventional Doctor, then you need to leave right now!"

That ped is one cool doctor.

That OB should be better termed ... something else. :irked: :angry
That is malpractice. Absolutely disgusting, and I would have reported him. Oooh, that makes me hopping mad.

"The doctor said "You've just got to understand, by mass vaccinating we are saving so many, but there are going to be LOSSES. Your son is one of them, and you just need to accept it."

:hopmad:

Geez, a dagger straight through her heart would have been kinder.

Today, I was told my three month old unvaxed baby could die from measels, or die in 24 hours from menigitis. Measels doesn't scare me any more than chicken pox does, but meningitis is scary to me, and I don't know that much about it, so I think I'll do more research. :)

LOL your three month old is too young for the shot. Do these people just not think before they speak ? Or do they really believe the lies they tell ?

:yeah:

Menactra is only indicated for ages 11 and up (so far :eyesroll ).

Response of clinic nurse when I told her that family doctor had recommended we discontinue DPT with my son who had 104.5 fever and screamed for 24 hours afterward "Oh, that's considered a normal reaction. Only if the fever is over 105 or they scream for 48 hours is it a problem."

The funniest part? The clinic doctor got wind of all this (nurse went out to talk to him) and then said he refused to vaccinate my son. However, they wanted me to sign something saying I refused to have him vaccinated. I said, "But you just said you refuse to vaccinate him. Why do I have to sign this?" "In case he ever get's the disease, we have to prove that you refused" "Wait - my doctor said not to give it and you are refusing to vaccinate him, why am I signing this?" Doctor (deep sigh) "Fine, just bring in a doctor's note saying we shouldn't vaccinate him." [this happend in Israel btw]

My favorite was the school nurse here in the US to a friend (married to an MD no less) who was selectively vaccinating 'No, you have to give all the recommended vaccinations or you have to homeschool. There is no exemption in our state.' To which my friend replied 'You are not going to convince me that "Chava X" [me!] gave these "farkakta" vaccinations to her kids and she's got her kids enroled here! There has to be an exemption.' To which the nurse beat a hasty retreat saying 'Well, I can't tell you what Mrs. X is doing, but I'll get you the forms for the exemption ....[which they had right in the school office!]'

Response of clinic nurse when I told her that family doctor had recommended we discontinue DPT with my son who had 104.5 fever and screamed for 24 hours afterward "Oh, that's considered a normal reaction. Only if the fever is over 105 or they scream for 48 hours is it a problem."

The funniest part? The clinic doctor got wind of all this (nurse went out to talk to him) and then said he refused to vaccinate my son. However, they wanted me to sign something saying I refused to have him vaccinated. I said, "But you just said you refuse to vaccinate him. Why do I have to sign this?" "In case he ever get's the disease, we have to prove that you refused" "Wait - my doctor said not to give it and you are refusing to vaccinate him, why am I signing this?" Doctor (deep sigh) "Fine, just bring in a doctor's note saying we shouldn't vaccinate him." [this happend in Israel btw]

My favorite was the school nurse here in the US to a friend (married to an MD no less) who was selectively vaccinating 'No, you have to give all the recommended vaccinations or you have to homeschool. There is no exemption in our state.' To which my friend replied 'You are not going to convince me that "Chava X" [me!] gave these "farkakta" vaccinations to her kids and she's got her kids enroled here! There has to be an exemption.' To which the nurse beat a hasty retreat saying 'Well, I can't tell you what Mrs. X is doing, but I'll get you the forms for the exemption ....[which they had right in the school office!]'


I just LOVE it when they get caught in their own lies!!!!

One more from the mother I mentioned earlier:

(At the hospital) The first thing they asked us was "Is he up to date on his vaccines?" I told the lady "no," and that he had a medical exemption. She pulled us aside and whispered that she understood, but we needed to be quiet because she could lose her job if they knew what she was about to tell us. She was a young D.O. I guess she was getting extra hours working in the emergency room. She said she had seen a lot of kids with post-vaccinal problems, but she said, "They don't take kindly to to that kind of talk around here..."

"The doctor said "You've just got to understand, by mass vaccinating we are saving so many, but there are going to be LOSSES. Your son is one of them, and you just need to accept it."

:dropjaw :dropjaw:dropjaw

Me. "You are just a GP who went to med school, did three hours of nutrition, five on immunisation, and weren't taught how to diagnose diphtheria because you don't need to know how because there is a vaccine. So exactly how much do you know?"

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :p to that GP.

Wow these stories are sad, shocking, and hilarious in some cases.

Your child will not start to gain weight unless you vaccinate him.

Chicken pox are atypical in the vaccinated child. (This child is not vaccinated.)

Resident: Why has your child not been vaccinated at all?!
Me: He has been sick his entire life so far. He runs fevers at least once a week. Neither my doctor nor I felt comfortable vaccinating him.
Resident (in Infectious Disease): Fevers are not a contraindication for vaccination.
Me: The manufacturer states that it is on their insert.
Resident: Hmph.

Vaccines work like homeopathy. You haven't been reading that Mothering Magazine have you?

Ah, that reminds me of another one -

me: "I won't give a vaccination while my child is ill"

ped: "that's not a contraindication"

me: "the manufacturer says it is"

ped: "oh, they just say that to cover themselves!"

Current pediatrician never says a word to me about vaccinations, but tells my dh horror stories about people with no risk factors catching hep B and dying (dh jokes about it already. when I tell him it's his turn to take a kid to the doctor he says "am I going to have to hear that story about the guy who died of hep B and left a wife and two kids again?".) Or perfectly healthy children who dropped dead (or were permanently disfigured or brain injured) from Chicken Pox when he was a resident ("before we had a vaccine"). Or.... you get the picture. I think he's afraid of me and that's why he never says anything!

"The doctor said "You've just got to understand, by mass vaccinating we are saving so many, but there are going to be LOSSES. Your son is one of them, and you just need to accept it."This is actually a common idea discussed by pediatricians when speaking about vaccinations to each other. They do accept that some children are damaged and killed by vaccines, but - hey, s*** happens.

But when it's a child in their own practice, then its a coincidence Blessed.

"I accept that my child will die eventually. We all will. I'm still not vaccinating today." said to the nurse who was harassing me to vaccinate my child who had....drummmm roooollllll please..... just come out of major abdominal surgery.

The baby's urologist was right there. The nurse says to him, "What do you think doctor? Shouldn't she vaccinate this child?" The doctor was so courteous, said, "If you do that, don't babies usually run a fever? If he runs a fever, how will we know if it's from the vaccine or the surgery? Then you're gonna be calling me at my house asking me to come in and see if he has an infection, aren't you?" Nurse, "well, yes." Doctor, "Well then...?" Nurse walks out of the room without answering.

Well, he was nice.

He's a nice guy and highly skilled. She was a lunatic that nurse.

Like your sig says. You can't fool all the people all the time. The simple majority won that day... :D

:lol I :love my sig.

Doc: (Here's the clincher) "We don't see those types of children in the Ct suburbs, only in the inner cities, so we do not need to know medical history before vaccinating."

Oh that just ticks me off. :hopmad


Mostly my idiot pediatrician has left me alone about vaccines. Probably because we only go in when the kids are really ill. I quit doing well-baby visits after Ds's 9 mo. appointment when the ped tried to convince me that my baby had shrunk and wasn't gaining weight and was small (he was 20 lbs) and that I should switch to formula.... But I digress...

"you are putting the immunocompromised at risk with your children not being vax'd"- health department lady when I went to get my religious exemption

From a mother on another board:
"The doctor said "You've just got to understand, by mass vaccinating we are saving so many, but there are going to be LOSSES. Your son is one of them, and you just need to accept it."

Each time I think of this statement I am horrified all over again. That must be the most insensitive thing that could EVER have been said to that parent.

"you are putting the immunocompromised at risk with your children not being vax'd"- health department lady when I went to get my religious exemption


I forgot about the Florida DOH! Florida mamas - please put in your favorite quotes.

I forgot about the Florida DOH! Florida mamas - please put in your favorite quotes.

Okay - I'll bite! :wink

"There is a mumps epidemic in Florida right now!"
Said to me earlier this week by the director of the health clinic who was giving me a hard time about obtaining a religious exemption. For the record, Florida has reported less than 5 cases of mumps this year to date. And the Fla. Dept. of Health has deemed that this number is to be expected given that we see about 10 cases of mumps reported in Fla. annually. You'd think that the director of the friggin' clinic would know that so either she's damned ignorant or a blatant liar. Either way...

At 2-month WBV I (naively) asked the ped what his opinion was on vaxes. In the course of the conversation he said this (all this was after small talk at the beginning of the visit about Easter, etc.): "So, you're going to Ohio for Easter in 2 weeks? Well, it's much colder there and there is the definitely possibility ds will get pertussis."

He also said something about 15 or 20 years ago having "several" children from his practice die every year from Hib.

At the 6-month WBV same practice, different ped: "If [ds] gets pertussis, he'll die. If he gets tetanus, he'll die. If he gets diptheria, he'll die"
Me: "So, what if he has a reaction? My niece was extremely tired and ran a fever for 3 or 4 days after both her 2-month and 4-month shots."
Him: "She must have picked something up at the doctor's office. Ds will not have a reaction to his vaccines. Trust me. I would never do anything to hurt your child." (And after he said that I began to doubt myself and ds ended up getting a couple shots, had a "mild" reaction to Prevnar and we have not vaccinated at all since and never will again.)

We have since left that practice. Well... during the times I was asking questions it was made clear to me we wouldn't be welcome there if we didn't vax on schedule. We have found a really great, supportive family dr. which I'm really thankful for.

"So, you're going to Ohio for Easter in 2 weeks? Well, it's much colder there and there is the definitely possibility ds will get pertussis."

The heck? I know that pertussis can happen at any time, but even the CDC's pink book pegs summer/fall, not spring, as the peak time. A big, fat thumbs-down to that doc.

The heck? I know that pertussis can happen at any time, but even the CDC's pink book pegs summer/fall, not spring, as the peak time. A big, fat thumbs-down to that doc.
I know! Isn't that nuts? It really just blows me away what some of these "educated" MDs will say.

One more from the mother I mentioned earlier:

(At the hospital) The first thing they asked us was "Is he up to date on his vaccines?" I told the lady "no," and that he had a medical exemption. She pulled us aside and whispered that she understood, but we needed to be quiet because she could lose her job if they knew what she was about to tell us. She was a young D.O. I guess she was getting extra hours working in the emergency room. She said she had seen a lot of kids with post-vaccinal problems, but she said, "They don't take kindly to to that kind of talk around here..." I took my middle son to the ER after his first DTaP at two months, running a very high fever and being lethargic. I was breastfeeding him, and the doctors were completely confused as to why he was so sick. I mention he got his shots, and they told me that it was "impossible" that this could be related to his shots. They did every test under the sun. We ended up staying in the hospital for three days and his dx was "fever of undetermined origin." :irked: His ped said, "Well, I would have thought it was a reaction, but since you didn't bring him to me, I have to go off of the other doctor's opinion." AND THEN, on a yahoo group here locally there was a doctor, and she told me that there are absolutely no side effects to the DTaP!! I immediately started taking him to my own doctor, who is a FP and is great.

I took my middle son to the ER after his first DTaP at two months, running a very high fever and being lethargic. Easy for me to say in hindsight here, but I would have insisted on a VAERS report.
Glad you baby is ok.

Easy for me to say in hindsight here, but I would have insisted on a VAERS report.
Glad you baby is ok. At first, it wasn't reported, and I didn't realize I could report it myself. But, I was asking my current doctor (who was very upset about this when I switched my boys over to him) and reporting, and he has! He's not anti-vax, but he's very parent friendly, and really does listen to a mother's intuition. I'm going to hate moving...

"I accept that my child will die eventually. We all will. I'm still not vaccinating today." said to the nurse who was harassing me to vaccinate my child who had....drummmm roooollllll please..... just come out of major abdominal surgery.

The baby's urologist was right there. The nurse says to him, "What do you think doctor? Shouldn't she vaccinate this child?" The doctor was so courteous, said, "If you do that, don't babies usually run a fever? If he runs a fever, how will we know if it's from the vaccine or the surgery? Then you're gonna be calling me at my house asking me to come in and see if he has an infection, aren't you?" Nurse, "well, yes." Doctor, "Well then...?" Nurse walks out of the room without answering.

:lol at the nurse.
:thumb for that dr

A CLASSIC from one ped in regards to my daughters lack of vaccines (she's had 2):

HIM - "I see here that she's not up to date on her vaccinations."

ME - "That's because our other children have had reactions to their shots and we are going much slower with this one."

HIM - "Well if you knew how vaccines WORKED you would keep her on the recommended schedule."

ME - "Um, acutally my husband is a molecular and cellular biologist and we're quite sure we know how they work."

DICK.

A CLASSIC from one ped in regards to my daughters lack of vaccines (she's had 2):

HIM - "I see here that she's not up to date on her vaccinations."

ME - "That's because our other children have had reactions to their shots and we are going much slower with this one."

HIM - "Well if you knew how vaccines WORKED you would keep her on the recommended schedule."

ME - "Um, acutally my husband is a molecular and cellular biologist and we're quite sure we know how they work."

DICK.

Bluesky74 and Dh: 1
Dicktor: 0

This is what happened to my daughter.

Her daughter was born in 99. She started taking her to the local pediatric practice. Didn't much like the doctor, but there was no other pediatric practice and at that time she felt the need for regular visits.

At the two month visit dd told the doctor she wasn't going to vax the baby. The doctor started to tell her there was a whooping cough epidemic in Vermont. DD asked some questions. Turned out that a)the "epidemic" was 30 cases and b)the cases were all in teenagers whose vax had stopped working.

Dd and daughter were kicked out of the practice at six months. Fortunately there was a new family practitioner just starting up who was delighted to take them on. He is not alternative himself, but is perfectly comfortable with providing a diagnosis and letting my daughter go with her own idea of best treatment.

One other bit: they got to skip the four months visit--apparently that one is really just for vaxing.

And no, neither of my grandkids have caught whooping cough to date (knock on wood).

Deborah

My almost 2 yr old at the time was running a very low fever (100.1) and had a febrile seizure. I took him to the ER at the best children's hospital in South Texas. A student dr. (not sure how many years) noticed on his chart that he was not immunized. When she looked him over she found 3 or 4 bug bites. She brought in the dr. and they looked over my son again. The dr. looked at her and said "NO! Those aren't measles!" I almost busted out laughing!!

Another incident at the same hospital w/ my almost 1 yr old at the time. I took her in because she was vomiting. About 10 times in less than an hour. I was very concerned. I didn't mention anything about vax to the triage nurse, but the dr. asked if she was up to date. I just stated "we don't immunize". He got so huffy puffy after that. Told me I was CRAZY and that one day she was going to get a cut and the wound would need to be injected...blah blah blah.

I have also been told that we could not be patients in a particular practice. I took my dd in for a specific reason so that I could discuss my options w/ the dr. He asked aobut immunization. Again I just said we don't. He offered right then and there to start her shots. I declined. He went ahead and looked over her and the problem I was concerned about. He then went on to do a through check. When he looked in her ears he said something like "those are the BEST looking ears I have seen in months" Well DUH! She is HEALTHY despite being on the verge of death from not being vaxed.

I did have a pleasant experience recently. I took my 4 yr old in and the dr mentioned that she was due for her shots. I told him we didn't immunize and all he said was OK. Didn't even turn to look at me, which was probably good because my chin was on the floor in disbelief. I was expecting to have to defend my choices and even had the kids exemption forms w/ me just in case.

I havent read the whole thread yet....but I wanted to post what our family dr (nurse practitioner) recently told me

"You know they debunked the whole autism thing" :scratch

I wanna know who "they" are and what kind of magic powers they have.....

I forgot about the Florida DOH! Florida mamas - please put in your favorite quotes.

Fl mama here. My pedi kept telling me to go the the pertussis.com web site and "then you'll want the vax". Well, that site is the BIGGEST fear mongering thing I ever saw. On the front page it has a bunch of parents of young babies (<2mo) who had pertussis and died. Hmmm what does that have to do with vaxing? Those babies couldn't have been vaxed in the first place. A few stories of people who went thru tragedy does not change the overall death rate (which I know is low, but I don't have an exact number handy. All I have handy is that before the vax only 100 people died every year and almost everybody had it at some point in their lives- and the mortality is 20X higher in ADULTS).

You wanna know something funny- AFTER I caved to receive one shot :o My son and I got an illness that was very pertussis like and may have been pertussis. I broke a rib.

A bit OT. This is not from a ped, but a chairperson from the International Post-Polio Task Force. How can he make such an irresponsible statement?

Unfortunately polio, although forgotten, is still present in the United States, too. Last year, five unvaccinated Minnesota children and one Arizona adult developed polio. They are the canaries in the mine shaft.

Unfortunately polio, although forgotten, is still present in the United States, too. Last year, five unvaccinated Minnesota children and one Arizona adult developed polio. They are the canaries in the mine shaft.

Whoa! Did I just read that right?

He's citing vaccine-derived polio cases in order to promote vaccination? :shake

[QUOTE=judesmama]
He also said something about 15 or 20 years ago having "several" children from his practice die every year from Hib.

At the 6-month WBV same practice, different ped: "If [ds] gets pertussis, he'll die. If he gets tetanus, he'll die. If he gets diptheria, he'll die"
QUOTE]

About the Hib- for his statement to be true - we'll define "several" as three, and considering that 1 out of 20 cases ends in death he would have had to have 60 cases. I think that claim is plausable(if he were measuring over a few year period and happened to be unlucky enough to get a string of cases)

BUT what KILLS me (no pun intended) is that he said if he gets any one of the D, T or P he'll die. The death rates from those are <5-10% for Diptheria, ~12% for Tetanus, and almost nobody dies from pertussis. Give me a break Doc. I didn't fall off the statistic truck yesterday. I can't believe he straight lied like that.

Subbing.My ped said "we don't force anyone to vaccinate." I can tell by some of the things he says and the looks I get that he thinks I'm one of "those moms," but he never presses the issue.

So my ped said that we were really lucky to have the Prevnar shot - that they have been giving it to AIDS patients since the 1970s. :confused:

So my ped said that we were really lucky to have the Prevnar shot - that they have been giving it to AIDS patients since the 1970s. :confused:


:lol

I think he means Pneumovax23 . . . and that was licensed in 1983. And AIDS was first recognized in 1981.

"You'll have to bring the baby before visiting hours so that you don't put any of my patients at risk."[/I]
While the reason is stupid, would you want your baby around people who might have just had a vaccine? Yes, getting up early is a pain in the neck, especially with a baby, but you'd be forcing the ped to get up early too and would be guaranteed not having to wait. If I end up with a ped who'll accept non/limited vaccinating, but who makes a fuss about "the other patients" I'll very cheerfully say "I never thought of that, you're right I don't want my baby exposed to them if they've had vaccines that day, to be on the safe side, would you be willing to extend your office hours so I can come in after everyone else has gone home?"

While the reason is stupid, would you want your baby around people who might have just had a vaccine?

Very true! However, his gesture of studity was being done just for little ole me until we found another pediatrician b/c he knew weren't going to vax according to the schedule. He made the comment after we agreed to part ways after they "fired" me.

I never went back to them after that first post birth visit. :thumb

Oh my.
I just, somehow, read through this entire thread and I'm really sad. :(
One consistent thing I'm seeing is this looming threat of death that doctors like to scare people with. :( People are so misinformed..

Wait--weren't you the one who wrote that great letter to your ped? And she "fired" you?

(Forgive me if I have you confused with someone else :o )

That was my letter, but I STILL haven't heard back from my doc. Surprise, surprise. It's funny because I see her all over the place -- she's a friend of my mom's -- and she always acts kind of weird.

Okay, not my Pedes but my OBGYN: Vitamin K, eye ointment and Hep B are MANDATORY. Duh, last time I checked we have medical, religous and philosophical exemtpions! Even got the print-out from the CO Dept. of Health...

"We wouldn't be here without vaccines", I let that one go completely. I mean, what, we would be extinct? Maybe not such a bad alternative for mother nature, but somehow we managed to survive...

"I've seen babies LOSE LIMBS because they got chicken pox.


Yeah, there are arms and legs scattered all over the place with every outbreak, don't you know...:wink

As a pediatrician, I find it interesting to read these posts. If I had a patient whose parents requested no vaccination (or delayed), I'd be fine with it. My only request would be that they mentioned the lack of vaccinations if/when their child is seen for sick visits (IF OR WHEN). That's only because we are trained to think that common things occur commonly. We tend to dismiss some commonly vaccinated illnesses because we assume that our patient is vaccinated (especially true in the ER where a parent and/or records may not be available).

Herd immunity is an interesting "animal". There are some communities where the rate of vaccination is so low that some diseases seem to be making a comeback. A smallpox outbreak would be a tragic example, as few people under the age of 35-40 received the vaccine (I did, as did DH - we were part of a study) and the immunity of those older has waned. Great study published decades ago, though, suggests that even those vaccinated as much as 80yrs previously had some protection (they got a milder case). And NO, that is NOT supposed to be a scare tactic. The chance of a smallpox outbreak is so small that the risks associated with the vaccine would cause more deaths.

There are risks and benefits to any medical intervention. And, as parents, we are responsible for weighing them for both ourselves and our children. Which way the scale tips is for you do decide.

As a pediatrician, I find it interesting to read these posts. If I had a patient whose parents requested no vaccination (or delayed), I'd be fine with it. My only request would be that they mentioned the lack of vaccinations if/when their child is seen for sick visits (IF OR WHEN). That's only because we are trained to think that common things occur commonly. We tend to dismiss some commonly vaccinated illnesses because we assume that our patient is vaccinated (especially true in the ER where a parent and/or records may not be available).

Herd immunity is an interesting "animal". There are some communities where the rate of vaccination is so low that some diseases seem to be making a comeback. A smallpox outbreak would be a tragic example, as few people under the age of 35-40 received the vaccine (I did, as did DH - we were part of a study) and the immunity of those older has waned. Great study published decades ago, though, suggests that even those vaccinated as much as 80yrs previously had some protection (they got a milder case). And NO, that is NOT supposed to be a scare tactic. The chance of a smallpox outbreak is so small that the risks associated with the vaccine would cause more deaths.

There are risks and benefits to any medical intervention. And, as parents, we are responsible for weighing them for both ourselves and our children. Which way the scale tips is for you do decide.
Dude, why do you have 50 posts of just "test"?

As a pediatrician, I find it interesting to read these posts. If I had a patient whose parents requested no vaccination (or delayed), I'd be fine with it. My only request would be that they mentioned the lack of vaccinations if/when their child is seen for sick visits (IF OR WHEN). That's only because we are trained to think that common things occur commonly. We tend to dismiss some commonly vaccinated illnesses because we assume that our patient is vaccinated (especially true in the ER where a parent and/or records may not be available).
.

Why would you dismiss some commonly vacciated illnesses? No vaccine is 100% effective.

Dude, why do you have 50 posts of just "test"? :yeah: :scratch

Why would you dismiss some commonly vacciated illnesses? No vaccine is 100% effective.

I guess this is why no child ever gets whooping cough, just the new 6-week asthma?

Must be :lol . :rolleyes

Dude, why do you have 50 posts of just "test"?

Dude, because I've been lurking for about a year, joined in October and never posted. So since I have to have 50 posts, I played the game. Mild protest on my part.


When I see a child with a cough, pertussis IS on the list. But it is lower down. We had a huge outbreak of VZV her in February. I swear, I was seeing 3-4 per DAY. And every one of those kids was vaccinated. And I spent hours educating parents that truly, vaccines aren't 100% effective.

Have to have 50 posts for what? What am I missing?

Suzy

Have to have 50 posts for what? What am I missing?

Suzy
If you look at the find more posts option, all his posts are 'test'.

There are only a handful of forums for which you need 50 posts to gain access, and Vaccinations is not one of them. In any case, I don't believe they meant 3 posts and 47 tests.

When I see a child with a cough, pertussis IS on the list. But it is lower down. We had a huge outbreak of VZV her in February. I swear, I was seeing 3-4 per DAY. And every one of those kids was vaccinated. And I spent hours educating parents that truly, vaccines aren't 100% effective.

I am still not understanding why you would dismiss some commonly vaccinated illnesses.

Actually, I'm female.

Last summer, there was a rule change made after complaints of trolling in some posts. In order to post/view some threads, you have to be a member for 60 days (no problem) and post 50+ times (problem). I've been on some boards for YEARS and haven't hit 50. I tend not to post often and lurk more. I couldn't find the "increase your post count" thread, so I made my own in the test section. Yes, I'm a real person. No, I'm not a troll (have I said anything trolly?). And those who visit CD'ing sites will recognize my username.

May we get back to the topic at hand now? I like to understand where people are coming from and I don't "meet" many anti-vax parents. It's nice to know y'all's reasoning so that I can better understand it. (Notice I did not say berate you or fire you from my practice)

I am still not understanding why you would dismiss some commonly vaccinated illnesses.

I don't, but some people will.

May we get back to the topic at hand now? I like to understand where people are coming from and I don't "meet" many anti-vax parents. It's nice to know y'all's reasoning so that I can better understand it. (Notice I did not say berate you or fire you from my practice)

If you have been lurking for a year, then our reasoning should not be a big mystery? There is hardly a person here who has not been told something patently ridiculous by a pediatrician. This is a thread to highlight those very real experiences and to demonstrate that doctors, contrary to their own popular belief, are not infallible. Parents often wonder how they can question something that so many pediatricians seem so sure about. Well, clearly many peds are grossly misinformed when it comes to immunization and VPDs. Remembering this empowers parents to think and learn for themselves.

I was on the anti-circ page and was honestly flabbergasted that some Peds are berating parents for not circ'ing. It's amazing to see (my opinions on circ'ing are my own and not to be pushed upon another). But after 6 pages of negative experiences, I thought I'd chime in. You know, the "enemy" speaks.

Not all physicians believe they are infallible. I wouldn't want to work with one who did.

Folks, please. If you all recall, when I first posted I was LAMBLASTED by some of the hardcores. Fortunately I've stuck it out and I think I've learned from you all, and I hope I've been helpful to some of you all in terms of providing a physician's perspective.

Easy now. It's GOOD for us to share different viewpoints and perspectives. Don't forget: many of we physicians are quite ignorant about vaccinations. It's true. This is a chance to both learn and to educate. Let's not blow it.

So, Gene ... giving you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you are indeed a pedi and seem to be open-minded:

What is your opinion of the scaremongering stories and outright BS lies that the posters here have experienced from their docs?

If I had a patient whose parents requested no vaccination (or delayed), I'd be fine with it.
Thank you for that. You would be shocked at the number of practices I've been kicked out of for saying "no thank you we don't vaccinate". Not because I started a fight , not because I said the doctor was in the wrong for advocating vaccines , but for calmly stating my preference.




My only request would be that they mentioned the lack of vaccinations if/when their child is seen for sick visits (IF OR WHEN). That's only because we are trained to think that common things occur commonly. We tend to dismiss some commonly vaccinated illnesses because we assume that our patient is vaccinated (especially true in the ER where a parent and/or records may not be available).

I understand , truly I do. I want to give the attending doctor all the relevant information. I want the correct diagnosis for my child so I can go about proper treatment.



Why does immunization status change diagnosis ? We both know vaxes aren't 100%. So a child presenting with pertussis like symptoms , but is vaxed will recieve "acute bronchitis" as a diagnosis...but the same child not vaxed will recieve "pertussis" as a diagnosis. :lol I find that withholding vaccine information from the doctor often gives me a better diagnosis.

I had a doctor tell me "If she wasn't vaccinated that would be a textbook case of the mumps. But because she's up to date it's most likely strep throat." . It was mumps.




There are risks and benefits to any medical intervention. And, as parents, we are responsible for weighing them for both ourselves and our children. Which way the scale tips is for you do decide. Thank you for understanding it is the PARENTS job to decide. You seem to be a rare breed of pedatricians who understand that parents are educated well read individuals who ARE thinking and acting out the best interests to their child.



May we get back to the topic at hand now? I like to understand where people are coming from and I don't "meet" many anti-vax parents. It's nice to know y'all's reasoning so that I can better understand it. (Notice I did not say berate you or fire you from my practice)

I appreciate you wanting to know our side a little better. As you read thru this thread , and the rest of the forum you'll see we aren't treated with respect by doctors. We've had many doctors come here saying "yes we want to know your side" and then just after we open the door to them we get a pie in the face...their true intentions come floating out. They don't want to know our side , they want to tell us we are wrong , we are harming our children , we are the ones who keep these diseases in circulation.....they spread lies. The lies we get everywhere else in life.

May we get back to the topic at hand now?

Sure. Do you have a scare mongering story to share?

This was not my ped, but one I interviewed after a recent move. Let's just say we did not hire him. After a long winded conversation that I posted a rant on and request for interview tips here:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=431409

He ended the interview with this little gem:

"You, and parents like you, are going to be responsible for an apocalyptic return of deadly diseases."

ETA: He also told me that I could go to the nearest cemetary for evidence of all the little children who have died from these diseases.

Dude, because I've been lurking for about a year, joined in October and never posted. So since I have to have 50 posts, I played the game. Mild protest on my part.

:nono

As a pediatrician, I find it interesting to read these posts. If I had a patient whose parents requested no vaccination (or delayed), I'd be fine with it. My only request would be that they mentioned the lack of vaccinations if/when their child is seen for sick visits (IF OR WHEN). That's only because we are trained to think that common things occur commonly. Okay, that's logical, but its also predictive of a prescribed thought pattern that if a parent says the child isn't vaccinated your primary thoughts will first be diverted to the diseases against which the child is not vaccinated.... and as you say We tend to dismiss some commonly vaccinated illnesses because we assume that our patient is vaccinated (especially true in the ER where a parent and/or records may not be available).Which adds in the inherent bias that if you ASSUME that a patient is vaccinated, then what you see can't be "that" disease.

It's called bias by nature of expectation. It's interesting too, if you look at, say the early diphtheria medical literature, how blatant this predictive dismissal can be. For instance, the series of articles about diphtheria in Finland in the 70's I think it was..... reviewing past diphtheria cases, particularly those in vaccinated children. There was strong admonishment, blatantly there for all to see, that diphtheria in vaccinated children cannot be diphtheria, and should be reported as tonsillitis :rolleyes

And if you knew the half of the rubbish that CDC fed you in the 90's when Russia was experiencing a diphtheria epidemic you would be so embarrassed. But... the reality is that you needn't worry, because MOST people around here can't read russian medical journals, therefore they don't know that a whole lot of the stuff CDC dished up for your nourishment, was a load of oxymoronic bollocks.

Herd immunity is an interesting "animal".That it is, is it not.

Does it not go something like "oh, to be of bovine ilk; to chew thine cud and just make milk"

Which frankly is what most parents out there who have allowed themselves to be conditioned by the system are. Part of a herd.

I am not.

There are some communities where the rate of vaccination is so low that some diseases seem to be making a comeback. and then there are countries like the one I live in where the whooping cough vaccine has done absolutely squat in terms of either the death rate, or the infection rate, such that anyone not part of the herd gets their daily merriment watching the ludicrous ads on TV,... until they realise how damaging and pernicious that brainwashing is, that they serious want to realign the funders of the TV ads faces.

A smallpox outbreak would be a tragic example, as few people under the age of 35-40 received the vaccine (I did, as did DH - we were part of a study) and the immunity of those older has waned.

Ah. Says she sucking in her breath.

This tells me that you know nothing about smallpox history and the "great lie" that was perpetrated by your professors or seniors, which you have clearly bought into.

A thorough study of the UK smallpox history should disabuse you of that notion. Particularly note the year in which "alastrim" was first mentioned and note well all the excuses dragged around to justify the splitting of the classifications. Also note well WHY certain district refused to use vaccination and that their solutions led to smallpox "disappearing" in their districts long before the people who use used vaccination.

Great study published decades ago, though, suggests that even those vaccinated as much as 80yrs previously had some protection (they got a milder case). Sad to say, that study was as useful and reliable as Jenners founding paper, which was based on both nonsense and a type of fraud. Oh yes, and did you know that despite being paid the equivalent of a modern day fortune for a vaccination which was supposed to protect for life, after one shot, Jenner revaccinated every year? Which made not much difference since if you go through the Registrar general's stats in the UK, you will come across many vaccinated patients who had smallpox many times. I did however, choke over the case of the poor block who got it 8 times, and the nineth time the Registrar General curtly states "This time, he died."

Somewhere on this board is extensive material put up by me on Smallpox history, and the interesting story you doctors rarely get to hear. While extensive, it was still a precis summary. Some of that might go some way to reassure you. However, please be aware that the vaccine itself in the many decades in which it was administered arm to arm, was a major cause of spread of TB, syphillis and other diseases, as well as leprosy in the tropics....

And NO, that is NOT supposed to be a scare tactic. The chance of a smallpox outbreak is so small that the risks associated with the vaccine would cause more deaths. Ah yes, but don't you find it slightly ironic, that during the decades when your ancestral paediatricians were in nightly sweats and daily hysteria about the woes of smallpox, that the then 259 (at least) noted side effects were considered of no consequence? No matter that they often included death, and that these horrendous side effects were the primary reason for the uprising of ordinary people in the UK, in the late 1800's who were not prepared to see any more of their babies die. Doctors were rightly feared, and not just for their penchant for killing people with puerperal fever.

And when you consider just HOW the smallpox vaccine was made up until very recently, and the acknowledged and listed contamination of the vaccine in the medical literature, don't you wonder how any sensible thinking paediatrician could even consider using such a ghastly vaccine in the first place?

However, let us play devil's advocate here. I presume you know Ken Alibek? I mean, the issue of a smallpox outbreak isn't to be trifled with if you want to subscribe to the current Bush doctrine of hysteria whipping, and high cortisol level management regarding the Bird Flu. Though its no recent phenomenon in the so-called land of the free. Many at the top right now, had plenty of practice as junior minions in the days of the Swine Flu Fiasco... interestingly, they don't appear to have learned much since.

Were there to be a terrrorist biological weapons attack based on a smallpox virus, you don't honestly think terrorists would be so naive as to "just" use a smallpox virus do you?

No. I suggest that any terrorist with any brains would use a camelpox, monkeypox variant with ebola thrown in, since the haemorrhagic gene in ebola would potentiate the pox virus and pretty much ensure that all pox was "black pox". Which if you really know your smallpox history, you will know is eminently possible. If not probably. If they really wanted to be crafty, as Alibek said some time back, a topping of anthrax wouldn't go amiss either.

Furthermore, the place it would be sprayed would be in hospitals and public transport systems. Several places at once, and by the time you guys knew anything about it, it would be too late, because half the ER staff would already be patients or in the mortuary themselves.

And you would have little at your disposal, because your reliance is so heavily on drug companies that you would know little else of either alternative or practical means to think outside the square.

Though Dr Thomas Levy might have a pretty good idea where to start.

There are risks and benefits to any medical intervention. And, as parents, we are responsible for weighing them for both ourselves and our children. Too true.

With a total number of over 300,000 medically related deaths a year in the USA, (the combined totals for preventable medical error, nosocomial infections and ADRs,) the medical profession has attendant risks which are far higher than the statistical odds of even a clinical versus a subclinical bout of paralytic polio. Even in this country, when you divide the yearly admissions with numbers of patients who die of preventable error, it comes out at one per 200 hospital admissions, and "damage" ( a loose rather flexible word I think) comes out at 1 per 20 hospital admission.

Given that it takes 1000 subclinical cases to produce the possibility of one paralytic polio case, I'd say that day to day, the risks attendant with the medical profession should be extensively reviewed to sober parents up, wouldn't you?

The risks attendant with the medical profession are definitely a more dangerous risk analysis than most of the "common" childhood diseases.

Having said that, doctors definitely have their pluses and uses. The problem is, that working out where is a minefield in itself.

Which way the scale tips is for you do decide....Actually, I'm female.:thumb

So I suspected. Most of the lurking male paediatricians here are too scared to open their mouths. Possible with good reason. It would help if you lady doctors might tell them how not to put their foot in it.

May we get back to the topic at hand now? I like to understand where people are coming from and I don't "meet" many anti-vax parents.Yes we can, but I would like to know why it is you want to know? If you don't meet non-vaccinators in your herd, then the experience possibly isn't necessary. And if you work in a system which believes the only reason to listen to those who are a different species, is to work out ways to counter them and smother their lateral thinking, then to say how we feel becomes a risky business. Most of us here adopt the MYOB route when it comes to sharing with doctors out of self-defence. As you can see. All doctors here, Blessed included, will tell you that a certain amount of fencing is in order as an induction process, just to see the mettle of your spine so to speak. :D

Shame on you Blessed. Do not stick up for your peers. They deserve to go through normal transmission first, just as you did. The degree of normality though, does depend on the degree of foot in mouth disease. You my dear Blessed, unfortunately stuck your foot in rather fast. To your credit, you had the guts to play ball, and it paid off, I think :D :D

It's nice to know y'all's reasoning so that I can better understand it. (Notice I did not say berate you or fire you from my practice)Yet. What say, your "ruling body" demands in the future, that you do?

Herd immunity is an interesting "animal". There are some communities where the rate of vaccination is so low that some diseases seem to be making a comeback.

Which communities?
Which diseases seem to be making a "comeback?"

The only disease I can think of which fits that incorrect description would be pertussis. And if you do say pertussis . . . then you really are a ped and your statement is absolutely perfect for this thread.

I bumped up a pertussis thread for you . . . you'll know which one it is.

Ah but LI, you are forgetting all the mumps in the vaccinated kids, and what's worse, the chickenpox in the vaxxed kids that's on the CDC's website, but they are too busy trying to ramp up the Mumps line, to bother to mention that the chickenpox vaccine isn't working either.

Ah but LI, you are forgetting all the mumps in the vaccinated kids, and what's worse, the chickenpox in the vaxxed kids that's on the CDC's website, but they are too busy trying to ramp up the Mumps line, to bother to mention that the chickenpox vaccine isn't working either.

:nod

I'm interested in hearing which diseases the doc believes are making this "comeback."

Should be very interesting.

:nono

Guess we won't be getting answers to our questions anytime soon, since Gene's post cost is down to 7. :(

Ah but LI, you are forgetting all the mumps in the vaccinated kids, and what's worse, the chickenpox in the vaxxed kids that's on the CDC's website, but they are too busy trying to ramp up the Mumps line, to bother to mention that the chickenpox vaccine isn't working either.
I was going to mention Mumps in the UK.
Evil, evil antivaxers...

You need 50 posts to see the vax forum? Hmmm...Maybe we should PM these thread responses to Gene so she can respond. I'm verrrry interested in her response.

You need 50 posts to see the vax forum?

I don't think so . . . we just had a troll post in here the other day with three previous posts. And newbies have posted genuine questions with less than 50 posts.

<<<We tend to dismiss some commonly vaccinated illnesses because we assume that our patient is vaccinated (especially true in the ER where a parent and/or records may not be available).>>>

I don't feel any disease should be dismissed since you can be vaccinated and still get a VPD.

On the other hand it would be useful to know if a person WAS vaccinated since the vaccine does alter the body,and sometimes can cause injury that does not get dx. Not that many doctors acknowledge the various effects vaccines have on the body...other than (always) creating protective immunity :)

I don't think so . . . we just had a troll post in here the other day with three previous posts. And newbies have posted genuine questions with less than 50 posts.

There are only a handful of forums for which you need 50 posts to gain access, and Vaccinations is not one of them. In any case, I don't believe they meant 3 posts and 47 tests.

Last summer, there was a rule change made after complaints of trolling in some posts. In order to post/view some threads, you have to be a member for 60 days (no problem) and post 50+ times (problem).


I'm confused. :scratch

I thought the 50-post/60-day thing was only for the TP. Then a couple of months ago I found a thread for Catholic moms in FYT - I invited them to join us in Spirituality, and the newbies said they couldn't post there b/c they didn't have 50 posts yet. And yet, there are ppl posting in the Spirituality forum who do not have 50 posts. :shrug

I didn't find anything in the info for this forum that states you must have 50 posts in order to participate in discussions.

What gives?

I'm confused. :scratch

I thought the 50-post/60-day thing was only for the TP. Then a couple of months ago I found a thread for Catholic moms in FYT - I invited them to join us in Spirituality, and the newbies said they couldn't post there b/c they didn't have 50 posts yet. And yet, there are ppl posting in the Spirituality forum who do not have 50 posts. :shrug

I didn't find anything in the info for this forum that states you must have 50 posts in order to participate in discussions.

What gives?
If I recall correctly from when I had just reached 50 posts (about 2 months ago), that 60 days+50 posts gains you access to the forums of spirituality, news and current events and trading post. There might be some others that you can gain access to in NFL with 50+ posts.

That being said, I accidently discovered that you CAN gain access to those forums through a round about way. Hint, hint, hint...this may want to be changed if it bothers the administration. When I did a search for a certain thread and/or looked at the posts of another poster, IF THEY had been in one of those forums then the search engine would bring it up and give you access that way. Am I making sense?

If I recall correctly from when I had just reached 50 posts (about 2 months ago), that 60 days+50 posts gains you access to the forums of spirituality, news and current events and trading post. There might be some others that you can gain access to in NFL with 50+ posts.

I'm sorry to derail this thread, but I have looked at both the MDC rules section and the forum guidelines for Vaccinations, Spirituality, and N & CE. I see nothing about a requirement of 60-day membership and 50 posts in order to participate.

Mods, can you shed some light?

"It is not related to vaccines" Dr when my dd developed Steven Johnsons Syndrome 12 hours after getting her 2 month shot. I do give him credit though when he said after her 4 month shot and she again reacted with Steven Johnson's Syndrome in his office "I will never immunize her again it is too dangerous! What is happening to the outside of her body is also happening to the inside!"

When I very first started questioning vaxes when my oldest was 15 months old and we moved, the new ped saw that she had not had the chicken pox vax, told me that he just had a patient nearly die of it. I rolled my eyes and told him she wasn't going to get it. After I had my second child and told him I was delaying, and stated my case he left me alone.

Well, for the original topic, I've heard plenty - more than I can remember in any detail. It kind blurs into one giant load of crap after a while.

Remember, I started hearing about vaccine damage when I was about 4 years old, and my mother got a swine flu shot...

When she first presented with double vision, neuropathy, and other vague symptoms, she was alternately told that she was lying for attention so should just go home and tend to her husband, tired and needed to rest, and needed a shrink.

When it became undeniable that she was terribly ill, it was anorexia, or other self-inflicted woes.

It was 2 years and 10+ physicians who turned her away before a reserch neurologist took on her case and newly discovered slow-acting chronic GBS. Of course she was 60 lbs. and very near death by then. He confirmed the connection to the vax.

I won't add to the discussion with what I've heard regarding my vax-free DS... It's just like the others here.

I will try to find out what the policy is because I don't know. Interesting conversation though. I hope you all had a happy mother's day!

I do want to know, though, since we have a willing pedi here...

Why does it seem to escape docs that considering vaccine status when diagnosing skews the findings, not only potentially for that patient, but also for the larger statistics?

Unless that is a desired effect, using vax status is simply incorrect. If that is a desired outcome, then it is unethical.

If there were any long-term, double-blind studies taking place in which the rates of disease were actually being tallied in completely vax-free vs vaxed kids, I'd be all over that, and more than happy to tell. Don't see that being the motivation for that line of questioning though...

How is it that docs can ask about vax status and not wonder why they really need to know?

Oh I thought of another couple lies the ped/family doc said "Chemicals cannot make you sick" and "Chiropractors are quacks".

The Trading Post, Talk Amongst Ourselves, Parents As Partners, News & Current Events, and Spirituality are the boards that have restricted access for 50 posts/60 days.

This is what I was told. I will pm Gene and find out if she is having any problems posting in the vax forum and we can see if there is some kind of glitch in the system that needs fixing.

Well, we're military. We had a hugely incompetant pediatric practice that we were "assigned" to go to (the only military treatment facility in a 20 mile radius). So, we had "no choice" but this practice.

I avoided the vaccination issue for nine months by simply nodding my head when they told me to go the nurses side to the shot room. I just didn't go to the shot room and no one ever put two and two together. :lol

UNTIL the day I had my husband along with me, and we were waiting on some forms and HE went and stood by the stupid shot room. So, then one of the nurses came up to him, and he had to tell her that we were actually not vaccinating.


So, then I got to have the following conversation with this nurse that including the following points:

That she could report my husband to his active duty commander for refusing to vaccinate.

That if we were stationed in Germany, she would inform the base commander so we could no longer live on base

You know your son is FTT don't you? (which, by the way, was the first mention of FTT EVER with my son. I had been banging my head with this pediatric office for months because *I* knew he wasn't growing properly but they lost his growth chart three times and "we can't take a parent's word for it" when I'd tell them what he previously weighed. But now it was mentioned as if to accuse me of negligent parenting).

Culminating with "I'm glad not all parents are as careless and irresponsible as you are, and the doctor will need to approve this."


I sat there for a good two minutes, after this conversation, trying to decide whether I was going to let this go. And suddenly I sat up and said to myself "I don't have to take this crap, ESPECIALLY from this sorry excuse of a doctor's office." So, I followed Nurse Hilge right into the vaccination room and I let her know the following

a.) You are entitled to your opinion, but I didn't ask for it, so next time keep it yourself.

b.) I don't give a flying leap what you would do if we were in Germany. Last I checked, WE ARE NOT IN GERMANY. Last I checked, neither are you. So, it really doesn't matter WHAT you would do in Germany, now does it? Don't spew useless information at me.

c.) Go ahead and call my husband's active duty commander. Understand that he has no authority over our medical decisions and know that I will pursue you for threatening and violation of our HIPAA rights if you release any medical information about my son.


Long story short, she was quite unrepentant and said if I didn't like her opinion, that was my problem and she was going to report me as a combative patient. And THEN, the doctor came out. We were there to get a health form for our adoption signed for our son. He confirmed my son was healthy and there would be no problems, and he signed the first form BEFORE he knew about our vaccination stuff. Then, when we needed him to sign the second form a day later (after this all came out) he said he couldn't do that because our son was not healthy.

So, I had to make ANOTHER appointment to go in there. I took with me the first sheet he had signed stipulating my son would pose no health risks to an adopted child. Then I looked at him straight in the face and said "You have two choices. EIther you lied the day you signed this form, and said my son was healthy when he was not. In that case you committed medical negligence and I will be following up on that. Or, you are currently lying. In which case I will be following up on that. So, please tell me which is true, so I may figure out which actions I need to take."

He sat there in dead silence for a few minutes, signed our form, and then told us that when we came for future appointments to never see him because "it's obvious we can't work together."


It took two appeals and a whole litany of complaints to finally get permission to seek care with a different practice, and let me tell you, the vaccination issue wasn't even the biggest of my issues with that practice.

Our ped told us the KIND of mercury that they put in vaxes wasn't the harmful form of mercury. My mouth just dropped open....

well it seem's pretty obvious to me now that a person with only a few posts can post in vax. Welcome to mdc rene!!!:love

I'm glad you got to ditch that doctor!!!

What a story Rene! Way to stick up for your child!!!

Here, here, Rene! :clap :clap

:lol It's funny that I found this thread because I actually came here to ask a question for my daughter...who we *did* get to bring home and is vaxed and who we are now having issues with *this* practice over. :irked: It never ends. Sigh.

I thought my husband was going to have a heart attack in the doctor's office. :lol He let me take the driver's seat but he was so panicked when I handed him our son and said "HOLD HIM, this is NOT ACCEPTABLE." He saw the look on my face and he just went dead of color "Just try and be nice, try and be nice. Keep calm. Keep calm, o.k." Hell hath no fury like a mother accused by an ignorant nurse
:lol

The Trading Post, Talk Amongst Ourselves, Parents As Partners, News & Current Events, and Spirituality are the boards that have restricted access for 50 posts/60 days.

This is what I was told.

But where is this stated on the MDC website?

At the very top of the Questions and Suggestions forum. "Forums Requiring 50/60 Criteria for Access (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=321391)"

Vaccinations is not one of those forums.

Off-topic:

:nono

I looked at her posts and it looks like she has 9 real ones, not 7 as it has been changed to. :hippie Just FYI.

At the very top of the Questions and Suggestions forum. "Forums Requiring 50/60 Criteria for Access (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=321391)"

Vaccinations is not one of those forums.

Thanks for the clarification, but shouldn't it be in the individual forum guides and/or MDC Rules?

Whoops, guess I'm in the wrong forum to ask that. :innocent

:nod Well said, Rene! :thumb

Here, here, Rene! :clap :clap

:Bow :Bow :Bow :Bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :twothumbs :twothumbs :twothumbs :clap :clap :clap :greet :w

Hell hath no fury like a mother accused by an ignorant nurse

Way to go, Rene! :tiphat: :twothumbs :clap

I am subject to military medicine, too and just now got approval for DD to go off-base for care. My military ped said that "those studies weren't written by MDs" and that the "ingredients aren't harmful anymore". When I asked him if he had read "Evidence of Harm" or "What Your Doctor Won't Tell You" the first thing he asked was if they were written by MDs. Apparently, MDs are the only people in the world capable of scientific analysis and critical thinking. Oh, and reading, too.:rolleyes I told him to send me as much information as he could about the bene's of vax and guess what? I haven't heard one peep from him since.:lol

He saw the look on my face and he just went dead of color "Just try and be nice, try and be nice. Keep calm. Keep calm, o.k."

Too funny! My DH says stuff like that to me too when I get angry at stupid people. :)

I told him to send me as much information as he could about the bene's of vax and guess what? I haven't heard one peep from him since.

I too have heard many promises of forthcoming proof of the bene's...

Still waiting...


:lol

This is semi-related...I got into it with a (different) military immunizations clinic (Hi, Rene!) over allowing nursing mothers to breastfeed during the shots. This was well before I started researching vaxes, etc...But I knew that BFing is potent pain control, so I challenged them on it, and was informed that they couldn't do that (insert various illogical reasons here) and to top it off, the baby could aspirate milk and then they'd have to emergency treat a choking infant with a needle hanging out of its leg! Um, hello? Altogether now, can we say "inflammatory and sensationalized?" First of all, if you don't have the presence of mind to pull the needle out at the first sign of distress, I don't want you administering medical care to my child. Secondly, I later presented them with a well-referenced brief (with footnotes - who knew 8th grade English would come back to help me?) on all the good research showing the benefits, with not a single documented case of choking in any research, to include conclusions by a group at Harvard that they could no longer justify using no-pain-control control groups in these studies because they were subjecting infants to pain when there were proven methods of alleviating it, and that BF was the best one. Hello? They're saying they can't justify using for research what moms were being asked to do every day at this clinic. So I get a response from the head of the department (whose wife is an LC - who knew?) and he did some minimal song and dance but actually changed the policy to allow for nursing during shots if you sign this incredibly scary release form, blah blah blah. But hey! I got a policy changed at a hospital! And a military hospital, to boot! (Yay, me.) Okay, off my soapbox...I just thought the whole needle-in-leg thing was ludicrous. Please.

But the baby could bite off your nipple while in the throes of pain and you'd bleed to death. Then who would raise your baby ?

That was said to me when I tried to breastfeed while getting dd shots. We ended up not getting any shots that day...and I'm ever so glad for it.

:thumb Rene!

I don't have an awesome story like that to relate, but I do have classic from DS's 2 month WBV:

The doctor said, "There's a greater chance of your son catching a life threatening disease than having some weird reaction to some vaccine."

:rolleyes So I guess he at least admits that there are some hard to explain, "weird" reactions to vaccines.

Also, when we informed the nurse at the beginning of the appt. that he wasn't having his shots, she told me, "well we use a vaccine that's a combo of (stuff I can't remember, blah blah) so the baby only gets three shots instead of four. Is that okay?"

Me: "Nope."

Nurse: "Oh, okay."
:lol

:lol It's funny that I found this thread because I actually came here to ask a question for my daughter...who we *did* get to bring home and is vaxed and who we are now having issues with *this* practice over. :irked: It never ends. Sigh.

I thought my husband was going to have a heart attack in the doctor's office. :lol He let me take the driver's seat but he was so panicked when I handed him our son and said "HOLD HIM, this is NOT ACCEPTABLE." He saw the look on my face and he just went dead of color "Just try and be nice, try and be nice. Keep calm. Keep calm, o.k." Hell hath no fury like a mother accused by an ignorant nurse
:lol

:lol :lol :lol

good for you mama!:thumb

rofl bonbonne :lol



Also, when we informed the nurse at the beginning of the appt. that he wasn't having his shots, she told me, "well we use a vaccine that's a combo of (stuff I can't remember, blah blah) so the baby only gets three shots instead of four. Is that okay?"

Me: "Nope."

Nurse: "Oh, okay."
:lol

:lol

oh, it was probably comvax- -hepb and hib in one, instead of 2 seperate ones there.

The doctor said, "There's a greater chance of your son catching a life threatening disease than having some weird reaction to some vaccine."




Complete opposite of what the CDC says.

Today, the current number of reports to VAERS exceeds the reported incidence of most vaccine-preventable childhood diseases combined.

ie: you are more likely to have a reaction to the vaccine than contract the disease.

This one is from my newly enlightened delay/nonvax friend.
She spoke with her doc about her soon to be born DS2. She told him they would not be vaxing for until 2yrs old and then nothing live virus. He told her that they recommend the Hep B before they leave the hospital. She asked why her son would NEED hep b since she was tested - as well as her DH and would be bfing w/ no daycare. He said that hep b used to be a top cause of death in teens. she responeded .... again why would my newborn need a hep b shot? He said he wanted to have the shot onboard before exposure:irked:

:bump:

I haven't read through all 171 relies to this thread but I did want to add mine.
I talked about CP with my ped. She told me, in a dramatic hushed voice, That if my dd got leukemia when she was older and then caught CP and hadn't been vaccinated it would kill her!!!! She also mentioned necrotizing fascitis (spelling on that one!!!). Big words don't scare me but spelling them does.
They actually had a newspaper article cut out and put on the parents noticeboard about whooping cough outbreaks.

At the hospital I gave birth, no one batted an eye when I decline the Hep B shot. But the ped I went to told me I'd be fired from the practice if I didn't vax. So I just never went back. I was also told I was a bad mom for co-sleeping. Blah

So in our process of interviewing pediatricians, DF and I came across one doc, who, in an attempt to scare us, stated "I think that this mumps outbreak in Iowa is really giving "misinformed" parents a big reality check. It makes them realize that these diseases are real, and can be extremely dangerous"

I told him that actually the mumps outbreak cemented my decision NOT to vaccinate, as the vast majority of those infected in Iowa were fully vaccinated! Please, and why is it that everyone refers to people who decide not to vaccinate as "misinformed" Like we just wake up and decide one day not to vax for no reason, or read some article on the internet and base our decision on that...idiots!

[QUOTE=Jen123]But the baby could bite off your nipple while in the throes of pain and you'd bleed to death. Then who would raise your baby?[QUOTE]

:lol

Dog bites and tetanus lying/scaremongering: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=459846

My ped:

Kelly, you're a smart girl. You're a nurse. I'll respect your decision, but I just can't figure out why you're doing this.

Said with true sadness and woe.:( Every time ds or I go to the office.

And I'm almost positive that if we weren't friends, that he'd have discharged me and ds from the practice.:( :(

I just got the usual...Your DD will die and is at rick for.....stuff. I had done the research and hit her witht the spread sheet I had done up from CDC mortality statistics and VAERS. She had no response to that...what can you say to the hard numbers? 2 reported deaths from CP vs 6 from the vax + 2674 VAERS reports? I have all the major VPDs and the numbers just don't add up.

Soon-to-be approved vaccine can prevent cervical cancer; the question is, are people ready to accept it? (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/health_science/articles/2006/05/29/a_fresh_shot/)

An article in today's Boston Globe about what peds are going to tell the parents of their patients to convince them to get the new HPV vaccine.

``What I will probably do is point out that last year alone, more people died of cervical cancer, which was pretty much directly produced by Human Papillomavirus, than were killed in 9/11," said Watson, president of Pediatrics West, a private practice with offices in Concord, Westwood, and Groton. ``People appreciate those sorts of comparisons."

Soon-to-be approved vaccine can prevent cervical cancer; the question is, are people ready to accept it? (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/health_science/articles/2006/05/29/a_fresh_shot/)

An article in today's Boston Globe about what peds are going to tell the parents of their patients to convince them to get the new HPV vaccine.

I'm still researching vaccines but this really bothered me.
``I'll probably focus on the fact that the vaccine prevents cervical cancer in my sell, and not on the fact that this prevents a sexually transmitted disease," said Dr. Joseph Hagan , a Burlington, Vt., pediatrician active inthem. the American Academy of Pediatrics. ``You know why? Because my Dad sold insurance, and I know what to emphasize and what not to emphasize."

Now, back to the scaremongering...

from Castle's article
I'll probably focus on the fact that the vaccine prevents cervical cancer in my sell, and not on the fact that this prevents a sexually transmitted disease," said Dr. Joseph Hagan , a Burlington, Vt., pediatrician active in the American Academy of Pediatrics. ``You know why? Because my Dad sold insurance, and I know what to emphasize and what not to emphasize."

How's that for informed consent?

Sara, we cross posted. Great minds think alike. :)

Sara, we cross posted. Great minds think alike. :)
I'll take that as a compliment.

THANK YOU!

I just got the usual...Your DD will die and is at rick for.....stuff. I had done the research and hit her witht the spread sheet I had done up from CDC mortality statistics and VAERS. She had no response to that...what can you say to the hard numbers? 2 reported deaths from CP vs 6 from the vax + 2674 VAERS reports? I have all the major VPDs and the numbers just don't add up.


oooHHH, ARE YOU WILLING/ABLE TO SHARE THIS?

I would LOVE this....I have been trying to find time to compile this, to show to people, and I would love you forever if you could share this.
I'll send you a cookie if you want. :lol

I have it all saved as an Excel file. If you want to PM me your e-mail, I'll zap it off to you. That goes for anyone who would like a copy

``What I will probably do is point out that last year alone, more people died of cervical cancer, which was pretty much directly produced by Human Papillomavirus, than were killed in 9/11," said Watson, president of Pediatrics West, a private practice with offices in Concord, Westwood, and Groton. ``People appreciate those sorts of comparisons."

Appreciate?! I'm quite sure they meant to use the word scared of instead. :irked:

My Ped didn't give me any scaremongering. I was simply told to vax or get out. No discussion what so ever. :irked:

I got that too. I left that practice and went to a new one, the only one in town that is ok with not vaxing. Doesn't mean she won't try to scare us, like she did when we interviewed her. "Your daughter could get tetanus just playing in the sand on the playground!"

At our first pedi visit (mind you, this WAS our pedi...no longer.)

"so, I think I see what your saying. You are refusing vax's. Kids die from Chicken pox, and I suppose you will refuse that as well."

Ok, DS was like 4 weeks old...or 6 weeks. And we were fighting over the chickenpox, which isnt even a recommended vax for that visit.

Ugh. Needless to say, this relationship wasnt a loving one. Finally I smartened up and moved on.

I thought DD#1 had mumps three weeks ago. I called the ped. on the phone and *she laughed* and said mumps only happens in "in college kids who didn't get the shots". (DD#1 had her MMR, albeit delayed)



The next week my DH had mumps. It took longer for him to heal, but it did! (He'd never had MMR or mumps as a kid, amazingly. He's certainly not a college kid, though!)

When I took Ez to his first pediatrician she was semi-respectful (I've heard worse) but gave me all these pamphlets explaining now "a little redness adn a sore arm is worth saving your baby from the risk of being one of THREE BABIES DIAGONSED A YEAR"... :eyesroll Anyways, so when I mentioned that I'd done all my research and mentioned that I declined the Vitamin K shot, this is what she said.

"You declined the Vitamin K shot!?!?!?! Do you know what ot look for??? You have to make sure he's not bleeding anywhere! His nose or his mouth or anywhere! He coudl have internal bleeding! It's very dangerous!"

arg.... but after that she didn't bother me much.However, I've only seen her once since then I think. I gave up on WBVs...they're useless, esp. if I'm just going to be told to vax.

bump

I've got a new one....
I was calling dentists in the area looking for one who could put braces on my boy.
I finally found one that sounded AP friendly. Then over the phone talking with the nurse she asked "Is he up to date on his shots ?".

Me: (trying not to say "he's not a dog") No. We've got a religious exemption.

nurse: Oh. But in the process of putting braces on he could get cut with the metal and then he'd get tetanus.

Me: Are you telling me you don't use sterilized equipment ?

nurse: Of course we do. But i'd be worried about the rest of the family catching it too.

Me: Catching what ? Tetanus ?

nurse: YES. It's very deadly ya know.

Me: Thank you for your time. You've just made my decision a LOT easier. Tetanus isn't contagious. Any office staff that is so sorely misinformed on something so basic won't be getting my hard earned dollars.

So there ya have it folks...straight from a registered dental nurse...you can get tetanus from getting braces put on AND risk spreading it to the rest of the family.

nurse: Of course we do. But i'd be worried about the rest of the family catching it too.

Me: Catching what ? Tetanus ?

nurse: YES. It's very deadly ya know.

:duh Yeah..... that's who I want in charge of my childs dental care :dizzy:

:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:
Good grief. Did you hang up right after? Or did she say something else??

I've got a new one....
I was calling dentists in the area looking for one who could put braces on my boy.
I finally found one that sounded AP friendly. Then over the phone talking with the nurse she asked "Is he up to date on his shots ?".

Me: (trying not to say "he's not a dog") No. We've got a religious exemption.

nurse: Oh. But in the process of putting braces on he could get cut with the metal and then he'd get tetanus.

Me: Are you telling me you don't use sterilized equipment ?

nurse: Of course we do. But i'd be worried about the rest of the family catching it too.

Me: Catching what ? Tetanus ?

nurse: YES. It's very deadly ya know.

Me: Thank you for your time. You've just made my decision a LOT easier. Tetanus isn't contagious. Any office staff that is so sorely misinformed on something so basic won't be getting my hard earned dollars.

So there ya have it folks...straight from a registered dental nurse...you can get tetanus from getting braces put on AND risk spreading it to the rest of the family.

She stuttered for a minute...something about "thanks for calling and have a good day" and I wished her a good day as well.

I tell ya....it cracks me up when someone says "But you aren't a doctor or nurse? You need to go to school to learn these things."

So far I know more than my doctor , his nurses , my health department , about two dozen different ER doctors I've come across , several EMT's , and various dentists.
I will freely admit I don't know everything about medicine....but when it comes to this issue I know more than any medical doctor I've ever spoken with. ( the Naturopathic and Chiropractic doctors know more than I do on this issue.)

:yeah:
I wish I could say the same, but right on girl!

You'd be surprised sunshinestarr, at how LITTLE these people do know. You probably know more, but just don't know that you do.

I have it all saved as an Excel file. If you want to PM me your e-mail, I'll zap it off to you. That goes for anyone who would like a copy

I want it!

I wonder what ever happened to Gene...?

My MIL has on more than one occasion give me the "look" when I tell her we're not doing the varicella vaccine, at least until later. "Don't you know kids DIE from that?" Uhhh, did your son/my dh die? No. Did I die after being exposed at 2 days old? No. I've told her that him getting it can boost other's immunity to shingles, and she STILL thinks I'm nuts. "You mean you'd risk S's life just so you don't get shingles??"

My dd's ped scared me into getting prevar and HiB. He agreed on HepB not being necessary (for now), though.

The entire staff thought I was cukoo for not having any vax done before her 3 month appt. The nurse told me there was an outbreak of mumps or measles nearby - trying to get me to give ds the MMR.

Give the MMR at three months old ????? It isn't even on the schedule until 12 months.
Seriously....giving the MMR to a three month old could kill them. That's not a doctor I'd ever want to see again. That kind of misinformation is deadly.

:bump:

Today at ds' 9 month well visit (only his 2nd ever) I heard:
Babies have died in my arms of hib (She said this like 5 times). It's a horrible death.
A baby in her practice came in after mother couldn't wake her. A spinal tap came out all pus. The babe was not vaxed.
Pnuemococcal ear infections only respond to IV vancomycin.

Suzy

If they were not safe the government would have pulled them by now.

Right- cause the gov'n always has the consumers best interest at heart :lol

My DD had all required required shots up until her 4 mo round when she screamed high pitch for hours and wouldn't wake to nurse or eat for nearly 12hours.
She hadn't had any shots after that.
I ended up getting a new pediatrician when she was 2 1/2 whom was also a pediatric nerologist. After I explained to him her previous reaction and mentioned I might consider delayed vax......
What he said was: "Ohhhh well if you'd like to continue when she's older I will give all the others except for DTaP, but if you want this shot done I can refer you to another ped." :jaw
What I heard was: "I don't want to be responsible if she dies or has a worse reaction."
Needless to say that moment a light bulb clicked and she has not had shots since :)

When we first moved to AZ, I had a recommendation for a ped practice. At this doctor's office I asked about known outbreaks, or diseases that might be more common here than in the northeast, from where we moved. I then got this long tirade on how "this people in Scottsdale think they can leave their kids unvaccinated in their glass houses because THEY aren't around anything, and yet they have these Mexican nannies and housekeepers and everything else coming into their houses...." it went on from there. I wasn't sure what all his point was - that Mexicans were bringing diseases in? That people don't vaccinate their kids because they think they won't get sick because they're too rich? What the hell? It was just all around inflammatory. When he got all done I said I didn't live in Scottsdale, nor had domestic help - could he just tell me what VPD were typically seen in the area. He was no help. HE was shocked I was refusing chicken pox (really? this is what you choose to go to battle over?), and then said that he had a patient end up in the ER seriously ill after getting the chicken pox. And he'd only been out of the hospital for 2 weeks after being in there for a while with menengitis. :irked: Right. Because his less than healthy immune system post- menengitis wouldn't at all be to blame. Still, no thanks.

We have a pedi now who is okay with the lack of vaccines. Tho one of the doctors in the practice told me she "requires" regular iron checks with unvaccinated children. Uh, right. What's the connection there? I was willing to do the iron check that time because DS2 had been anemic and DH was concerned. But regular ones? No.

I had a pedi in CT who told me I HAD to give DS1 infant cereal so that he would (I'm not making this up) "get used to the spoon." I said that he finger fed himself just fine, and was eating a pretty interesting diet. It's incredible that now, at 5.5 he can even use a knife! And without any infant cereal in his past! He also told me, after I said I wouldn't give DS1 vitamin drops ("he needs vitamin D" "right. he gets that from the sun." "that would be true in trinidad, but here in CT there isn't enough." "Really? amazing we survived this long, isn't it?") "well, if you'd rather wait until he develops rickets and anemia and we treat him for that, we can do that." Okay, fine. Then that's what we'll do. I saw HIS partner the next visit and when I casually asked about anemia and rickets she looked at me as if I had a second head. "THIS baby? This is an incredibly healthy baby. Why would you think he's at risk for rickets?" "well, you see...":loveeyes:

~amey (lacking good smilies due to being too lazy to get the big list)

"vaccinations are incredibly safe. There are NO side effects outside of soreness at the injection site."

"Your child will die without vaccinations."

"It is incredibly dangerous for a child to not be vaccinated, not only for you and your child but for society at large." (how can that be if society at large is "protected"/vaccinated?!)

When asked if the ped vaccinated her own children "of course. For everything. Even chickenpox. A lot of us think it's okay cause we had it ourselves, but I've seen many children DIE from this, and after seeing children die, you just don't want to take that risk with your own child." When I responded that vaccinated children often "get" chickenpox anyways I was told "your facts must be wrong. I've NEVER heard of that happening."

"you got your DOG vaccinated, didn't you?"

"there is no more thermosol in vaccines" (in California...is this even true?)

"there is so little mercury in there, you eat more or drink more from your regular diet" (yes, but I don't INJECT them into myself at birth...in fact, my baby doesn't EAT or drink a regular diet at all...only BM, which has already been processed by my body)

Not from a ped but from another "parent" with a "higher degree": "ALL ebf babies MUST have a vitamin and iron suppliment or else they will die." "ALL ebf babies MUST begin solid foods at 4-6 months or else they will die of severe malnurishment." "Waiting to give a baby solids until they are a year or older is child abuse and will result in a severely sick child."

from my midwife, after I tested GBS positive (okay, this isn't vaccine related, but it is RELATED):

"you MUST take IV antibiotics or else your baby will be stillborn"

"3% of babies get sick from GBS and 98-99% of those babies die"

"0% of babies get sick if you are given IV antibiotics during labor"

"there are NO side effects to taking two major doses of IV antibiotics in labor" (what about yeast, thrush...? Oh, and the risk of DEATH to the mother for taking this is almost equal to the risk of death to the infant for getting sick with GBS, btw.)

"if you refuse the IV antibiotics, your peditrician will not release your daughter until she has had a spinal tap and has been taken away from you for observation for several days"

"newborn babies can become sick and you would never know it or what to look for."

"IV antibiotics in labor do not enter the breastmilk"

and on a different occasion "IV antibiotics during labor just provide extra immunity to the breastmilk."

"Vitamin K is necessary for the newborn in the form of an injection."

"the vit K injection doesn't hurt or bother the baby."

"there are no negative side effects from an injection of vit k."

"there are no side effects for eyedrops at birth"

"eyedrops are necessary because you may have an STD and not know it."

"STD's can lie dormant for years and can be transmitted years before you were married or in other ways but through bodily fluids or dirty needles"

"an STD blood test does not actually tell you if you have an STD."

"your baby will be blind if not given eye drops and you DO have an STD or other bacteria in the vagina at birth"

"We wouldn't have to give your baby eyedrops if you had a c-section"

"we must break your waters or you will not be able to continue with your labor"

"you cannot take piticoin with a painkiller, it's either one or the other."

"your only option for pain management in labor besides an epidural is an IV of narcotics. This does not cross the placenta. Neither does epidural."

I don't want to get off subject here, but I thought these were related enough to be "honorable mentions."

Oh, I forgot to add that on a vax poster in the waiting room that listed the dangers of all the VPDs. Death was listed for every one, even CP.

But we can't tell mothers to breastfeed because it might make them feel guilty. :scratch

Suzy

"vaccinations are incredibly safe. There are NO side effects outside of soreness at the injection site."

"Your child will die without vaccinations."

"It is incredibly dangerous for a child to not be vaccinated, not only for you and your child but for society at large." (how can that be if society at large is "protected"/vaccinated?!)

When asked if the ped vaccinated her own children "of course. For everything. Even chickenpox. A lot of us think it's okay cause we had it ourselves, but I've seen many children DIE from this, and after seeing children die, you just don't want to take that risk with your own child." When I responded that vaccinated children often "get" chickenpox anyways I was told "your facts must be wrong. I've NEVER heard of that happening."

"you got your DOG vaccinated, didn't you?"

"there is no more thermosol in vaccines" (in California...is this even true?)

"there is so little mercury in there, you eat more or drink more from your regular diet" (yes, but I don't INJECT them into myself at birth...in fact, my baby doesn't EAT or drink a regular diet at all...only BM, which has already been processed by my body)

Not from a ped but from another "parent" with a "higher degree": "ALL ebf babies MUST have a vitamin and iron suppliment or else they will die." "ALL ebf babies MUST begin solid foods at 4-6 months or else they will die of severe malnurishment." "Waiting to give a baby solids until they are a year or older is child abuse and will result in a severely sick child."

from my midwife, after I tested GBS positive (okay, this isn't vaccine related, but it is RELATED):

"you MUST take IV antibiotics or else your baby will be stillborn"

"3% of babies get sick from GBS and 98-99% of those babies die"

"0% of babies get sick if you are given IV antibiotics during labor"

"there are NO side effects to taking two major doses of IV antibiotics in labor" (what about yeast, thrush...? Oh, and the risk of DEATH to the mother for taking this is almost equal to the risk of death to the infant for getting sick with GBS, btw.)

"if you refuse the IV antibiotics, your peditrician will not release your daughter until she has had a spinal tap and has been taken away from you for observation for several days"

"newborn babies can become sick and you would never know it or what to look for."

"IV antibiotics in labor do not enter the breastmilk"

and on a different occasion "IV antibiotics during labor just provide extra immunity to the breastmilk."

"Vitamin K is necessary for the newborn in the form of an injection."

"the vit K injection doesn't hurt or bother the baby."

"there are no negative side effects from an injection of vit k."

"there are no side effects for eyedrops at birth"

"eyedrops are necessary because you may have an STD and not know it."

"STD's can lie dormant for years and can be transmitted years before you were married or in other ways but through bodily fluids or dirty needles"

"an STD blood test does not actually tell you if you have an STD."

"your baby will be blind if not given eye drops and you DO have an STD or other bacteria in the vagina at birth"

"We wouldn't have to give your baby eyedrops if you had a c-section"

"we must break your waters or you will not be able to continue with your labor"

"you cannot take piticoin with a painkiller, it's either one or the other."

"your only option for pain management in labor besides an epidural is an IV of narcotics. This does not cross the placenta. Neither does epidural."

I don't want to get off subject here, but I thought these were related enough to be "honorable mentions."

Holy moly!! From people who call themsevles professionals??????

Oh, and about chicken pox, all three us of had 'em when I was a kid, and came through just fine. And from what I understand, before the vaccine only about 100 kids were hospitalized with chicken pox every year, and about only 40 died? My point is that if those statistics are true that doctors could have not possibly seen hundreds of kids die from chicken pox if only about 40 die a year.

California has in fact banned thimerosal from all vax except the flu shot. Don't know how well companies comply, but the law is there.

California has in fact banned thimerosal from all vax except the flu shot. Don't know how well companies comply, but the law is there.

CA didn't ban thimerosal from all vaccines. The law doesn't allow full strength thimerosal-containing vaccines to be given to children under the age of three and pregnant women.

CA DOH memo:
http://www.calphys.org/assets/applets/mercury_vaccine_memo_020906.pdf

Anyone over the age of three may still receive full strength thimerosal-containing influenza vaccine, including DT, TT and meningitis vaccines, which all contain 25 micrograms of thimerosal in the multi-dose formulation.

CA didn't ban thimerosal from all vaccines. The law doesn't allow full strength thimerosal-containing vaccines to be given to children under the age of three and pregnant women.

CA DOH memo:
http://www.calphys.org/assets/applets/mercury_vaccine_memo_020906.pdf

Anyone over the age of three may still received full strength thimerosal-containing influenza vaccine, including DT, TT and meningitis vaccines, which all contain 25 micrograms of thimerosal in the multi-dose formulation.

Isn't there a federal bill trying to over ride all state laws banning thimerosal? Or was that just something the drug companies are lobbying for?

I interviewed our ped office when preg with dd and got the green light (yellow really) to not vax. We had to sign a paper saying that our child might die and it will be our fault. And I heard a horror story about tetnus. They pretty much leave us alone now. But at ds's 18 month visit the nurse wanted to vax (didn't read chart obviously) and he had a 103 degree fever!!!!!:dizzy:

Isn't there a federal bill trying to over ride all state laws banning thimerosal? Or was that just something the drug companies are lobbying for?

Ya know, I remember getting an email about something like this very recently . . . I can't recall the actual details though.

CA didn't ban thimerosal from all vaccines. The law doesn't allow full strength thimerosal-containing vaccines to be given to children under the age of three and pregnant women.

CA DOH memo:
http://www.calphys.org/assets/applets/mercury_vaccine_memo_020906.pdf

Anyone over the age of three may still receive full strength thimerosal-containing influenza vaccine, including DT, TT and meningitis vaccines, which all contain 25 micrograms of thimerosal in the multi-dose formulation.

Really? Hm, now I guess I'm the liar!:innocent

I love how, still, everyone insists thimerosal is harmless. We should ban it, but it's harmless.

the worst thing anyone I know has "retained" from actually having chicken pox are a scar or two here and there...I think I can handle that "guilt" with my own kids.

Does anyone have any info on declining the eyedrops right after birth? I'm not expecting now, but want to sooner or later, and I was told hands down that it is the LAW if a child is born in a hospital. Is that another huge lie?

yes, i believe that is a lie.

I've noticed a little trend IME that the female peds tend to state that they have seen babies die from X disease a bit more frequently than male peds do.

Do others of you notice this? And if so, why might it be? :scratch

it's a lie. Of couse you can refuse the eye drops. It's a law just like all other meds/vaxs are laws. Just say you refuse. Ask ahead of time if you like so that they can prepare a form for you. I'll be refusing this time, didn't last time. Wish I had. DD's eyes were red and swollen (they weren't for the first 2 hours before we put that gunk in her eyes) for over 2 months!

I kept getting "it's normal. It's from the birth!" But I was like, for two to three hours, there were no red marks on her eyes and she was fine. TWO seconds after the "drops" (which were like a vasaline type thing they schmeared on her eyes) her eyes became red and swollen and puffy. Um, okay.

Women tend to be harder and more richeous on other women, I think cause they feel they have some "authority" in the area. Not only are they moms themselves or have a mothering instinct....but they have a MEDICAL DEGREE. So they are YOU...ONLY BETTER! It becomes a competitive power struggle for them to win the battle over your children. Also complience. I think women have a real interest in forcing complience. Maybe it's because it was forced on us for so long. The abused becomes the abuser, so to speak. Just a thought.

I've noticed a little trend IME that the female peds tend to state that they have seen babies die from X disease a bit more frequently than male peds do.

Do others of you notice this? And if so, why might it be?

That's an interesting observation. In Lactivism there is a poll right now asking who gives you more grief for nursing in public--men or women. The results overwhelmingly indicate....women :( Why are we so hard on each other and so judgmental? Shouldn't we--especially as mothers--be supportive of each other? Very sad.

Women tend to be harder and more richeous on other women, I think cause they feel they have some "authority" in the area. Not only are they moms themselves or have a mothering instinct....but they have a MEDICAL DEGREE. So they are YOU...ONLY BETTER!

Maybe that's a part of it :shrug

At 7 mos when my son was at the Peds for a sick baby appointment and they were pushing the Prevnar and Hib:

"And you know, they have found that the amount of immunities and protection in breastmilk starts decreasing around 3 mos, so he's not really protected."

Also, at the same appt:

"Well if you aren't vaccinating for the purposes of autism, you should at least consider the Prevnar and Hib. They are not combined shots, so they aren't a problem."

"Well if you aren't vaccinating for the purposes of autism, you should at least consider the Prevnar and Hib. They are not combined shots, so they aren't a problem."

:rolleyes


Of course the pharma-pimping peds want you to "at least" do Hib and Prevnar . . . those two are among the lowest in terms of compliance.

"And you know, they have found that the amount of immunities and protection in breastmilk starts decreasing around 3 mos, so he's not really protected."

Who are these omniscient "they?" The AAP? Newsweek Magazine?

Here's a nice little comment from Dr. Dean O'Dell (in a recent interview with David Kirby)

"Vaccines are totally safe and have nothing to do the the genetic/hereditary condition called autism. To grant people the right to religious exemption from vaccine is the moral equivalent of granting people a religous exemption for waiting at red lights. It is against the law to run a red light and it should be equally against the law to refuse government mandated vaccinations for any reason whatsoever."

What a stupid analogy.

nak

subbing....

I was just told today by the Ped how i put my son at risk because i didn't let them give him the Hep B shot right after birth, real nice i'm so upset that i'm going to try and switch both kids to a diff Ped.

Here's a nice little comment from Dr. Dean O'Dell (in a recent interview with David Kirby)

"Vaccines are totally safe and have nothing to do the the genetic/hereditary condition called autism. To grant people the right to religious exemption from vaccine is the moral equivalent of granting people a religous exemption for waiting at red lights. It is against the law to run a red light and it should be equally against the law to refuse government mandated vaccinations for any reason whatsoever."

What a stupid analogy.

:hopmad: :hopmad: :hopmad:
oh my head is about to explode . . . . .

I was just told today by the Ped how i put my son at risk because i didn't let them give him the Hep B shot right after birth, real nice i'm so upset that i'm going to try and switch both kids to a diff Ped.



Just curious...Unless you were + for hep b what risk was your son at? Did the Ped tell you? or was he just assuming that your newborn would be out having promiscuius (sp?) sex and using IV drugs in the next few months?

Just curious...Unless you were + for hep b what risk was your son at? Did the Ped tell you? or was he just assuming that your newborn would be out having promiscuius (sp?) sex and using IV drugs in the next few months?


I'm not sure why he said it but it really made me mad that he said i was puttin my son at risk:irked:

Got a new one today from DS's 4 month WBV:

"Well, you're time to start vaccinating is running out because I can't have your son endagering my other patients."

So, in essence, we were fired. Which is great! And, I guess the vaxes must not work too well if my unvaxed DS is a threat to all the other vaxed patients. :angry

good riddance! BTW, dont bother with well baby visits. As Dr. Mendelschon says, a well baby doesnt' NEED to visit a place where sick people go. That's just asking for trouble!

good riddance! BTW, dont bother with well baby visits. As Dr. Mendelschon says, a well baby doesnt' NEED to visit a place where sick people go. That's just asking for trouble!

:clap THANK YOU!! :clap

good riddance! BTW, dont bother with well baby visits. As Dr. Mendelschon says, a well baby doesnt' NEED to visit a place where sick people go. That's just asking for trouble!

Very true! I always wondered why they didn't have a seperate area of part of the building for well-child checks, because you never know what you can pick up in a waiting room! It always kind of made me think..

Very true! I always wondered why they didn't have a seperate area of part of the building for well-child checks, because you never know what you can pick up in a waiting room! It always kind of made me think..

As I understand some doctors' offices do have a separate waiting area for WBV patients.....

Robert S. Mendelsohn, M.D.

How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor...

was a $5 book NEW paperback in the usa.


Get it and READ it...there is nothing to think about.

I don't know how much weight my baby gained...Don't care. I saw she was gaining and that was good enough for me.

Never knew what "percentile" she was in. It's ridiculous to compare her to a national average of bottlefed babies. Ridiculous. Every baby grows differently.

B"H I think dd has been so healthy cause she's stayed OUT of the drs office, away from all those kids who just had all those nasty vaxs and are pooping out infectious diseases and getting it all over the place.

I would never even touch the doorknob at the drs office!!!!! YUCK I'd always ball up a napkin or my shirt or something. Hehehe.

I would sit there (I went to ONE wbc) and listen to all the kids coughing and sneezing around my precious newborn and didn't have to THINK twice about it. THIS IS NOT SMART...AT ALL!!!!

Here's a nice little comment from Dr. Dean O'Dell (in a recent interview with David Kirby)

"Vaccines are totally safe and have nothing to do the the genetic/hereditary condition called autism...."

That makes me angry. I have not seen one bit of evidence that an autism gene has been found with the exception of a few rare conditions that hardly acount for the majority of cases. :angry It seems to me that they are using a double standard by denying the vax connection on the basis of so-called lack of evidence while embracing the genetic connection which is only an assumption.

Robert S. Mendelsohn, M.D.

How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor...

was a $5 book NEW paperback in the usa.


Get it and READ it...there is nothing to think about.

I don't know how much weight my baby gained...Don't care. I saw she was gaining and that was good enough for me.

Never knew what "percentile" she was in. It's ridiculous to compare her to a national average of bottlefed babies. Ridiculous. Every baby grows differently.

B"H I think dd has been so healthy cause she's stayed OUT of the drs office, away from all those kids who just had all those nasty vaxs and are pooping out infectious diseases and getting it all over the place.

I would never even touch the doorknob at the drs office!!!!! YUCK I'd always ball up a napkin or my shirt or something. Hehehe.

I would sit there (I went to ONE wbc) and listen to all the kids coughing and sneezing around my precious newborn and didn't have to THINK twice about it. THIS IS NOT SMART...AT ALL!!!!

YES, YES, YEEEEEEEEEEES! :thumb

Our office has separate waiting rooms for well/sick children. I really hate going and wouldn't, but DH likes to have the pedi listen to DS's heart and all that stuff. DH is totally with me on no vaxing, so it's the least I can do, really.

My sister's premie (my nephew) was in the NICU last year and when he reached 4 lbs, they really started heavy handed tactics. My favorite is "there is a little boy upstairs dying of pertussis. If your son contracts this disease, there will be nothing we can do about it and he will die." I almost fell over in disbelief.

Very true! I always wondered why they didn't have a seperate area of part of the building for well-child checks, because you never know what you can pick up in a waiting room! It always kind of made me think..

My pediatrician when I was growing up DID have separate waiting areas for sick and well children. It bothers me that this is no longer the case. Every time I bring my boys I have to be afraid of them interacting with other kids.

Robert S. Mendelsohn, M.D.

How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor...

was a $5 book NEW paperback in the usa.


Get it and READ it...there is nothing to think about.

I don't know how much weight my baby gained...Don't care. I saw she was gaining and that was good enough for me.

Never knew what "percentile" she was in. It's ridiculous to compare her to a national average of bottlefed babies. Ridiculous. Every baby grows differently.

B"H I think dd has been so healthy cause she's stayed OUT of the drs office, away from all those kids who just had all those nasty vaxs and are pooping out infectious diseases and getting it all over the place.

I would never even touch the doorknob at the drs office!!!!! YUCK I'd always ball up a napkin or my shirt or something. Hehehe.

I would sit there (I went to ONE wbc) and listen to all the kids coughing and sneezing around my precious newborn and didn't have to THINK twice about it. THIS IS NOT SMART...AT ALL!!!!

:yeah:

Got a new one today from DS's 4 month WBV:

"Well, you're time to start vaccinating is running out because I can't have your son endagering my other patients."

So, in essence, we were fired. Which is great! And, I guess the vaxes must not work too well if my unvaxed DS is a threat to all the other vaxed patients. :angry

Yeah, I never really understood this as an argument IN FAVOUR of vaxes. I mean, the doc is basically telling you that vaxes don't work well enough to protect his vaxed patients? How is that supposed to convince a skeptical mother to vax? Hmmmm.....if I vax then I'll have to not only worry about all the crap in the vaxes that can cause problems but I still have to worry about catching the diseases from the unvaxed population (and there will always be an unvaxed population). I'd just have to tell the doc that he just talked me out of vaxes for good!:wink

"The AMA wouldn't put anything out there that isn't safe, though you will find internet groups that say otherwise."

-Said to me when I inquired about my ped's take on it all.

"titres are not reliable"

from our family doc.

"titres are not reliable"

from our family doc.

:bigeyes

Yeah, I never really understood this as an argument IN FAVOUR of vaxes. I mean, the doc is basically telling you that vaxes don't work well enough to protect his vaxed patients? How is that supposed to convince a skeptical mother to vax? Hmmmm.....if I vax then I'll have to not only worry about all the crap in the vaxes that can cause problems but I still have to worry about catching the diseases from the unvaxed population (and there will always be an unvaxed population). I'd just have to tell the doc that he just talked me out of vaxes for good!:wink

Well the thinking is also re: his other patients who are not yet fully vaxed, newborns, etc. And ya know...."once in a blue moon they don't work".

titres? What is that?

Well the thinking is also re: his other patients who are not yet fully vaxed, newborns, etc. And ya know...."once in a blue moon they don't work".

If unvaccinated children are putting "not yet fully vaxed newborns" at risk . . . so are other under/unvaxed individuals who come into close, daily contact with those newborns. For instance:

mommy
daddy
grandma #1 and #2
grandpa #1 and #2
aunts
uncles
other close relatives


Not to mention those under/unvaxed individuals who will come into contact with newborns on a regular basis:

pediatricans
nurses
receptionists

Ok, in a magazine I got. all you May issue.

Understand the real risks of the bird flu
what you can do: Stay informed (snip). Remember, a pandemic can't occur without human-to-human transmission of the virus- which hasn't happened yet.
Get a regular flu vaccine. Experts don't know whether it will help, but it can't hurt.
I read that to my not anti-vax dp, and he said "that's not really what it says, is it?" while :lol

and this
Learn the truth about getting your vaccines
The Truth: (snip) Our of 250 million vaccine doses given yearly, the CDC gets only 15,000 reports of adverse reactions, mostly for minor events, like a fever :dizzy:
Doesn't that just prove that adverse events are severely under-reported? (Especially seeing as how its pretty well known that its relatively common for kids to get a fever after vaccines)

"If you lived in Bangladesh you'd follow the vaccine schedule!"

My DH was quick; he calmly said, "Well, we promise not to let her play in raw sewage for the next few months."

:clap