Low Milk Supply Tribe -- May/June 2006 thread

[TurboClaudia]

Since our last thread was very, very, very insanely long, and in honor of our new home in the Breastfeeding Challenges forum, I thought we could reintroduce ourselves and connect in this new thread.

Here's a link to the last page of our old thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=119922&page=55

So if you are currently or have struggled with low milk supply issues, please tell us a little about yourself and your baby(ies) and your journey in breastfeeding!

milky vibes to all... :dust

~claudia

[TurboClaudia]

I'm Claudia, mama to our almost two year old boy Marek and growing a new little one set to debut sometime in late September.

Breastfeeding started out well for us, but when M was about 4.5 months old, we discovered he was not gaining weight at an appropriate pace, he was having fewer soaking wet diapers and going days between pooping. After seeing a wonderful lactation consultant, our naturopath and a pediatric MD, we began the journey of trying to boost my milk supply. Pumping after day time feedings, supplementing at the breast with a temporary rigged SNS-type tube, trying to finger-feed, etc. After a week, our son hadn't gained any appreciable amount and my pumping had not increased in output, so we made the decision to supplement at the breast with a Lact-Aid using my breastmilk, donated breastmilk from wonderful mama friends, and later with fortified goat's milk (added iron, folic acid and fish oil to it). We also introduced solid foods at this point, starting with avocado, banana, and sweet potatoes. We continued using the Lact-Aid until M was about 9.5 months old and began eating solid foods with zest but still enjoying the nursing. I also took fenugreek, ate lots of oatmeal, drank Mother's Milk tea, used More Milk Plus herbal tincture, and finally even tried domperidone to increase my supply. None of these had a significant effect, aside from the dom making me incessantly hungry and gassy. I also tried acupuncture and chinese herbs, which we believe gave our son a mild rash on his belly for some weeks but otherwise didn't affect either of us.

He graduated from night time nursing around age 11.5 months after he chewed on my nipple to soothe his new teeth coming in instead of nursing. Gradually over 3-4 months, his 4-5 times a day nursings dropped down to just one nursing before bedtime at night, and then he graduated from that one at age 18.5 months, just before this past Christmas and about a week before I became pregnant again.

We have never unequivocally determined what exactly caused my low milk supply while nursing him, although the lactation consultant mentioned his palate might be slightly higher than typical and that my breasts are spaced quite widely on my chest (a sign of hypoplasia/ insufficient glandular tissue). We also battled thrush for approximately a month before we determined the weight gain and supply problems, and that may have altered his suck just enough to affect his drawing the milk out.

I am looking forward and becoming nervous about preparing for this new little one, hoping that perhaps we will face the same struggles again but also hoping that perhaps we won't.

~claudia

[MarcyC]

Hi there! I'm Marcy. I have 3 kids - Matt is 7, Jessica is 6 (they are a year and 3 days apart). Megan is 13 months.

I didn't breastfeed Matt. I wasn't familiar with breastfeeding since no one I knew breastfed and the only "lactivists" I knew were pretty strong. Not supportive and understanding, more overbearing know-it-alls who continually put me down, kwim? So I did bottle feed Matt, but I bottle-nursed. I didn't KNOW I was bottle-nursing, I just did. Several years later I was telling someone how I bottlefed Matt and she said, "oh, you bottle-nursed." Um...okay...sure. So I came home and googled bottle-nursing and sure enough, that's what I did. Okay...

Jessica was born a year and 3 days later and I had decided to breastfeed. Not just "give it a try". But definitely, 100%, breastfeed. No bottles, no pacis. Well, I ended up having full-blown toxemia with her, had to be induced. I didn't have an epidural, but I had to have magnesium which made me really sick. I breastfed her within minutes after birth and things seemed okay, but I really felt awful. This particular hospital had (supposedly) the BEST LC's around. All the LLL people were telling me that this hospital was the best as far as breastfeeding. So on our second night there when a very nice nurse suggested she take the baby for the night and bottle-feed, I was confused. I had heard/read about nipple confusion. Nonsense, the nurse said. A baby this young CANNOT get nipple confusion (aka PREFERENCE). And it can do wonders for a new mom's milk supply to get a full night of sleep. *****WRONG***** That was the begininng of the end for us. Her billirubin levels went sky high (low-to-mid twenties). The more I supplemented, the less she was interested in nursing. Finally, in desperation, I called LLL and the leader suggested an SNS. So I ordered an SNS, it took 10 days to arrive, and by that time my attempts at BF'ing were futile. I tried for 4 months, but she just never was happy...even with the SNS. I was tired, and in hindsight I'm sure I had PPD, but it was undiagnosed so I was a wreck, to say the least. I gave up BF'ing and totally regretted it, but settled into a good routine with bottles. At least SHE was happy even if I wasn't.

So I have baby #3, 5 years later. I am NOT going to make the same mistakes. I co-slept, BF'd on demand. Let her stay latched on for hours and hours and hours upon end. I ate lactogenic foods, took herbs from the beginning, drank Mother's Milk Tea...and let her nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse. Despite all that, she kept losing weight, and losing and losing and losing. Her billirubin levels went down...that was a good sign...but she kept losing weight. On our worst day, I took her to a LLL meeting and 3 leaders and a doula said they strongly suggested supplementing. At first I supplemented with bottles (what was I thinking?) and I pumped. I got super tired of that routine...Nurse, bottle, pump and then 1 1/2 - 2 hours do it all over again, plus I was homeschooling the older two.

So I dug out that SNS and it literally saved our nursing relationship. Unfortunately we were never able to get rid of the SNS. I tried a few times, but she was never satisfied with breast alone (even when we started solids). Finally now that's over a year we seem to be weaning from the SNS.

I've taken herbs, domperidone (seems to help a lot). I also was fortunate this time around to have an OB/GYN knowledgeable about BF'ing. They did bloodwork and found that I have higher than normal estrogen levels. Estrogen suppresses prolactin. I also have symptoms of PCOS (although I don't have any cysts), but I do have facial hair and weight gain around the middle. I also have widely spaced breasts that are small in proportion to the rest of my body (possibly a sign of IGT or hypoplasia). All those factors together make BF'ing difficult, but not impossible.

[newmom22]

I also had difficulty with breastfeeding because of breast reduction surgery in my early twenties. While I am much more comfortable and don’t regret the surgery in my day to day life, it was devastating once I discovered the true difficulty of breastfeeding with a reduced supply. I falsely believed that because I had the “newest” procedure available where they leave the nipple attached during the operation and pull all the ducts and nipple up into the new breast like a button into a button hole that breastfeeding would still be an option. My surgeon assured me that I would still be able to breastfeed. My whole pregnancy I didn’t even consider formula or bottles because I was sure that I could do it myself. I saw numerous lactation consultants & public health nurses to get things going. My son was large at birth (9.4lbs) so he was a voracious eater from the start and my low supply was not keeping him happy. My midwives set me up with a lactation aid and an electric breast pump on the first day. My routine was to nurse “normally” for 5-10 min then attach the lactation aid and continue feeding until DS was satisfied. I would then pump for 20 -30 minutes to stock up for the next feed. I would only get 2 to 3 ounces total from both breasts in that time. I was exhausted! Once I had finished the routine, sterilised the equipment and had something to eat I was back at it again! 24 hours a day. When DS was three weeks old he was hospitalised with a raging UTI and I was so stressed out that my milk virtually dried up. I continued pumping with less and less success and began to add formula to the lactation aid. I had terrible blisters on my nipples from the pump, but persevered for 12 weeks. I gave up pumping at that point and just put DS at my breast for as long as he would and then made him a bottle, held him close and tried not to feel incredibly guilty. Once DS got a taste of the bottle he was done with me and would no longer latch on. It was way easier and faster for him to go straight to the bottle. I discovered MDC after I was through all this and wish I had known about the various herbs and teas that can increase milk production. I will definitely try them next time! It was a very difficult time. I could not leave the house at all. When we did go to visit family I had so much “stuff” to take with me and would end up attached to a baby or a pump the whole time. It was much easier to just stay home. I am so envious of women who breast feed with such ease. My sister has a fabulous nursing relationship with her babe! It makes me sad knowing that I could have had that if I had only known to wait until I was done having children to have the surgery.

[Citykid]

Hi everyone, I'm Noemi and I hope to be a graduate from this tribe one of these days. My first child, Akiva, is 3.5 weeks old now and I still can only pump a half ounce at a time. But I'm not giving up yet.

I had to be induced because of ruptured membranes with meconium in the water and my labor didn't start on its own for 12 hours. Pitocin contractions were more than I could handle so to my shame I took an epidural. Akiva was born with a lot of meconium in his belly and had his stomach pumped several times. After that he wouldn't latch but I was so glad to finally hold him I didn't care. We resisted giving him formula for 28 hours but when he still hadn't latched and was screaming with hunger we gave in. I got on a pump right away and initially I had nothing. Those first two days were also full of at least a dozen people grabbing his head roughly and shoving him onto my breast, and pinching my nipples til I cried out trying to elicit a drop of colostrum.

We started with an LC the next day and initially her suggestions worked. He learned to latch and I got a little milk. But then we plateaued. We use the SNS at my breasts exclusively for feedings now and he takes about 3.5 oz of formula that way. I feel he's not getting much BM or he wouldn't take that much formula. Once a day I'm able to give him a feeding of breastmilk - yeah it takes me 24 hours to save up 3.5 oz. I pump right after I feed him - I tried pumping in between feedings but I got even less when he hadn't stimulated me first. I take fenugreek and mother's milk drops and I eat oatmeal every day and I just finished a 3-day trial of stout beer. Every once in a while I get a whole ounce at the pump and then I walk on air for a while thinking my milk's finally coming in. But it always goes back to my usual trickle. :gloomy:

I'm trying to stay positive but it's very hard. I have not heard of a woman in my situation who was able to move to exclusiver BFing. It's breaking my heart.

Where I'm at now is deciding how much longer I'll keep trying and when it'll be okay to give him a bottle so we can leave the house. I wouldn't be a good mother if I kept him inside all summer because we're chained to the SNS and the pump! Also on my mind is what would giving up mean? When he eats from the SNS at my breast it's so sweet and I don't want to give that up. Also there would be a big mourning issue for me to deal with if I give up on my milk. But where where where is my milk? I can't believe my body can't do it, and yet - where is it? Very weepy these days.

[edited for typos]

[Gianna'sMom]

Is this the new thread in which us low suppliers should be posting? Should I get rid of my other bookmark at "Low Supply Tribe" and bookmark this one?

Should I write an intro of myself again?

How are you all?

Thankfully, after months of resolve to get my baby back the breast we are still breastfeeding full time and taking 120mg of Dom per day. I still can't believe how well that medicine has worked for me. I went from producing about 1oz (combined, both breasts) of milk every 4 hours to about 6-8oz (depending on the time of day) every 4 hours. Like I've said previously, I finally know what it is like to nurse with an ample milk supply. I owe it all to you ladies here at this thread, and to that magic pill, Domperidone!

In other news, my husband deployed this past weekend for a 3-month TDY and I am stuck up here in Alaska with no family and a little baby to care for! I am feeling kinda lonely and am missing his company so much already. I know this is off topic, but it's my biggest concern right now! I'm starting to know what it might feel like to be a single mom and let me tell you, I have the utmost respect for any woman raising a child(children) on her own!

I hope you are all well!

Lisa

[Shell_Ell]

Just marking my spot!

My name is Michelle, DS is Riley, he's 8.5 months old and we're still nursing! I will have to post an intro later. He's about to wake up from a nap.

[scubamom]

i am a long time lurker, and have learnt lots from everyone here.

I have 2 sons,one is 2 and the other is 10 weeks old. I was hoping 2nd time round not to have the problems i faced the first time, but i think i knew in my heart we would.
With ds #1 we had chronic supply issues from the start with excessive weight loss and high bilirubin levels. We were pretty much on dom and using a SNS within the first 2 weeks. I found dom helped but not dramatically, i managed to deal with my feeling of loss, helplessness and anger at my own body and we BF for 10 months, although with lots and lots of formula. When i did pump i barely got half an ounce so after a while i had to give it up as just too hard on me emotionally. I did to come to terms with everthing and feel that with the SNS i had a great BF relationship with my son. Nothing soothed him more than his mommys breast.

Before we started trying for ds #2 i wanted answers as to why and if anything i could do to help out b4 i got pg, no answers even after thyroid and hormonal tests. What Dr has told me since is that she thinks i have PCOS, plus add to that widely spaced breasts, with an underdeveloped look and no changes during pg i think i am destined never to have more than a dribble of milk. But i try everthing, and have just ordered some goats rue as i heard can help develop breast tissue esp when PCOS or breast reduction surgery, i will let you know how it works.

But to cut a very long story shorter, same thing is happening with ds #2, although i was more prepared emotionally this time, so although i am still grieving the fact that i will never exclusively BF, i have come to the conclusion that formula is not the devil. Last time i hated the fact that i had to give it him, but i know it is what enables my son to grow and thrive and helps make nursing a pleasant experience as he isnt frustrated at the breast when i use formula in the SNS.
So for you mammas with new young babies hang in there, even this time i wanted to quit, as so upsetting and i kept thinking whats the point i have virtually no milk. But i set myself challanges of a week at a time, and it got easier to deal with. My son still gets the closeness of Bf, the great jaw development, and i think that even though very little milk it is still jam packed full of the good immunity stuff. What i have learned through all this is that BF not just about milk, and i am trying every day to just enjoy having my baby at my breast

[JenInMpls]

howdy,

It's me Jen, mom to T who is 20 months old now. T was always a good nurser, people commented that he has a "higher than usual" palate, and like Claudia, I have widely spaced breasts that could be indicitive of hypoplasia or at least insufficient milk glands. We SNS'ed for 14 months until T was willing to take a sippy cup at night when he wanted milk, as opposed to "nis". Now he "nis"es about 5 times a day, getting maybe an ounce each time, but he doesn't care at all - he's a boob man :wink

My most delightful moment on this journey was just last week when he was nursing, looked at me, grinned with nipple in his mouth, dribbled milk, and latched off to say "mama mils - gooooot!" (we speak German at home, but I think you can figure it out - mama milk, gooooood!). :love

Glad we've finally got a home. :Peace jen

[TurboClaudia]

jen: i'm laughing at the "boob man" comment about T! i have a nursing necklace that spells out "boob man" on it for our little one... :laugh:

and lisa, yes, this a new thread to add to the old, overwhelmingly long one, so bookmark or subscribe to this one. (at the top of the page for the thread, there is a drop down menu on the middle right that says "Thread Tools" and you can select "Subscribe to this thread" and choose options for notification (like no email notification, email notification, etc.)) i'm so excited to hear about your pumping successes while on the dom! how is G doing at the breast? any better?

welcome to all the re-visitors and to the lurkers coming out of hiding and the new mamas! wish you didn't have to be here and sending you all milky vibes... :dust

~claudia

[mom2ken1cam2]

I posted this in the bf challenges and then found this tribe and thought I might post here too! I am new to this but have received so much info from lurking! I had bf challenges with #1 but was told and thought myself it was due to having gall bladder surgery when son was 6 weeks old. He was losing weight and we started supplementing at 2 months old. I was so emotional over this and didn't understand why I wasn't able to provide all the nutrition he needed. I, like others I've read, cried through the 1st bottle I gave him I just KNEW #2 would be different and I would be able to strictly bf like I was made to do! We were in the hospital after having #2 and having troubles already! I started pumping from the get go! I was told he was a "sleepy" baby...after dehydrating twice and having to watch them put an IV in his little head we gave in and started supplementing with a bottle (we were syringe feeding). He is now 8 weeks old and rarely goes to the breast but I'm STILL pumping every 2-3 hours! UGH! I'm at a breaking point and don't know how long I can do this, but I also can't let it go either! I'm getting 1-2 ozs (about 13 ozs in 24hrs.). I've been working closely with amazing LCs and have been on Fenugreek and Blessed Thistle and an contemplating using Domperidone! Any advice/help/encouragement would be appreciated!

[Citykid]

I just had to share my hopeful signs...

Starting yesterday my left breast LEAKED when it was time for him to eat! for the first time! and I leaked a bit in bed last night too. Still only 1/2 ounce in the pump, but I'm taking it as a sign of progress anyway.

And just now, at this feeding that's currently going on, I found that I could squirt my breasts! This also has never happened before. My routine is to nurse him "bare" a bit before taping on the tube, and while doing that just now (actually an hour and a half ago, but who's counting) I found that I could squirt. So whenever he slowed down I detached him and squirted into his mouth, which made him wild to latch back on. How fun! He's on the tube now because after an hour he clearly wasn't satisfied yet. But I'm so excited I wanted to share. Now off to pump.

[tash11]

I am BFAR. I have posted this before, but heres a recap for those that missed it (and some new info)...

Before we even knew what my supply was we had some problems getting her to latch on. I just didnt know how and neither did she. She had a good suck. and she was born at home with no suctioning or anything like that. My milk came in when she was 50 hours old, and that night we finally had a good nursing session. I could feel my other breast getting engorged while she nursed though. We both went to sleep and in the morning I was compleatly engorged. We could no longer latch on at all. On day 4 we managed to get an appnt with a LC, my baby had lost about a pound since birth. the LC gave us a finger feeder, and told us to rent a hospital grade pump (I had been trying to pump with my isis, but again I didnt really know how). she also gave us instructions to feed every two hours, first we were to try to latch on, if that didnt work after a few minutes to finger feed her pumped milk and if needed supplement (organic soy formula) to make at least 1.5oz total. My husband would finger feed her while I then iced (to take down the engorgement) and then pump. We didnt get very much sleep. I was pumping just under an oz though :) After a day or so of this we finally got her to latch on and we stopped doing the pumpings. I had wanted to continue pumping after feedings but she didnt really stop feeding, ever.

It took about a month to get back up to her birth weight (7lbs4oz). And we did have to keep supplementing. We tried to go without the supplement, but she didnt gain any weight. (we were having weight checks twice a week until things were better) At first it was just finger feeding. Then we used the finger feeder like an sns. Then it broke and I got a lact-aid. (this was around the same time that she started taking more then the 2oz that the finger feeder could hold at a time).

I started taking mothers milk tea, then fenugreek pills, now I am taking more milk special blend. I feel fuller and leak more when I dont forget to take it. Because of this (and her not acting so hungrey) I tried to get her off the supplement. so I have been weighing her every week and she gained 3oz, then stayed the same, then lost an oz. this is over the past month. I think I need to give her more supplement :(

[MarcyC]

Citykid - Congratulations on the leaking!!! :thumb

[Moonprysm]

Let's see if I can try this again...I tried to post earlier and the window got closed accidentally. lol

I was directed to this forum by some people on my UC board, and I'm looking forward to the support and encouragement of others who are in/have been in my situation.

I was scheduled to be induced a month early due to pre-eclampsia. My water decided to break on its own the morning of my induction. I had to have magnesium sulfate, pitocin, and antibiotic (since I was only 35 weeks 6 days and hadn't been tested for GBS yet). He was born after a 7 hour med-free labor at 5 lbs 8 oz. I tried to get him straight to the breast, but he was sleepy and sluggish due to the mag.

I tried to nurse him the 3 days we were in the hospital, but felt that something just wasn't right. Before we left, the nurse told us that the shaking spells that he'd been having were due to low blood sugar, and suggested that we start supplementing. (I found out later that it was simply a reflex that preemies have, and I honestly believe that had we not supplemented that day that my milk would have come in just fine).

We saw a lactation consultant twice, who suggested we start using Avent bottles to supplement, and that I pump after every feeding. I had the same expirence as many mothers I've read on here - my days were nurse DS, give him his bottle, pump, then start all over again. I went on Fenugreek (which didn't help at all) and between the first and second visit with the LC, DS gave up all together on nursing. The LC gave us a nipple shield, which got him back to the breast, but we have yet to wean him off of it.

I got my OB to prescribe me some domperidone, but she only gave me a very low dose, and only a week's supply. It didn't help much at all. I'm currently on a spree of doing everything I know possible...I have more Fenugreek and Dom coming in the mail, I'm drinking mother's milk tea with a tincture of blessed thistle in it, and I am currently on a "nursing vacation" where today he has been nursing since 1pm until 8pm straight, and still had to have a bottle!

He's 8 weeks old now, and I'm determined to continue breastfeeding at least until 6 months IF I cannot get my supply up. It's a very depressing situation - I had planned on self-weaning and hopefully nursing for several years, and now I may have to give up at 6 months just due to the stress on both of us right now.

[Moonprysm]

*edited for duplicate entry*

[MaryJaneLouise]

Moonprysm -- have you tried taking a higher dose of Domperidone? See my post here about FAQ Domperidone for more info about ordering it etc.

[Moonprysm]

Moonprysm -- have you tried taking a higher dose of Domperidone? See my post here about FAQ Domperidone for more info about ordering it etc.

I have some coming in the mail right now. I coudln't find the dosage instructions on the websites in your post, though... My OB only prescribed 30mg/day for a week. So I decided to just go ahead and order some online since she obviously wasn't aware of how much it can take to boost your supply.

[mom2ken1cam2]

Moonprysm-WOW I can't believe your story...have you been a fly on the wall in my house?? We went through all of that...from the shaking spells in the hospital to the Avent bottles for supplementing. I just order some Dom also (haven't tried it yet, only Fenugreek, Blessed Thistle and Mother's milk tea). I'm praying this will be the one to boost my supply!!! I haven't tried the nipple shield yet (I've been a little afraid), but I guess I should since I pump after every feeding anyway!! Well, keep us posted...it's good to know there are others out there, although I hate hearing others are going through the same things!! :irked:

[Moonprysm]

Well, my son went on a 9 hour nursing spree yesterday!! Of course, now it's left me totally confused. After 9 hours of nursing, I still had milk left! You would think I'd be completely slam empty...he only got 3 or 4 bottles yesterday and he slept through the night last night.

I'm so afaid of moving to nursing only because I don't want him to start losing weight and such. He still very much wanted those bottles that I gave him...but why did I have milk left after 9 hours of nursing?? None of this makes any sense to me. :( I'm going to try to go back to a regular schedule tomorrow (nursing then pumping at least every 3 hours) instead of keeping him latched constantly and I'll see how much I get from pumping...

Rawr. It's so frustrating when your body won't do what it was meant to do. *sighs*

[Citykid]

thanks MarcyC! Good luck Moonprism - sounds very promising!

[MaryJaneLouise]

I have some coming in the mail right now. I coudln't find the dosage instructions on the websites in your post, though... My OB only prescribed 30mg/day for a week. So I decided to just go ahead and order some online since she obviously wasn't aware of how much it can take to boost your supply.

http://www.kellymom.com/newman/19a-domperidone1.html

Using Domperidone

Generally, we now start domperidone at 30 mg (three 10 mg tablets) 3 times a day. In some situations we go as high as 40 mg 4 times a day. Printouts from the pharmacy often suggest taking domperidone 30 minutes before eating, but that is because of its use for digestive intolerance. You can take the domperidone about every 8 hours, when it is convenient (there is no need to wake up to keep to an 8 hour schedule—it does not make any difference). Most mothers take the domperidone for 3 to 8 weeks, but sometimes it is needed longer than that, and sometimes it is impossible for mothers to maintain their milk supply without staying on domperidone. Mothers who are nursing adopted babies may have to take the drug much longer. People taking domperidone for stomach disorders are often taking it for many years.

After starting domperidone, it may take three or four days before you notice any effect, though sometimes mothers notice an effect within 24 hours. It appears to take two to three weeks to get a maximum effect, but some mothers have noted effects only after 4 or more weeks. It is reasonable to give domperidone a trial of at least four, and better, six weeks before saying it doesn’t work.

For more information on how to wean off the domperidone see the handout: Domperidone 2.

[MaryJaneLouise]

:bump: Where did this go?

[Citykid]

I started Reglan yesterday. It seems like this is it - either it will work or it won't, but it'll be the last thing I'll try. At the end of the course I'll be 6 weeks postpartum. My LC thinks this is my only hope, and my midwife gently told me I need to modify my goal (of weaning him off formula). I feel guilty but I'm counting the days when I can stop needing to pump every 3 hours and can actually spend an afternoon out of the house.

This whole thing is very sad but also sort of a relief at the same time that it will be over soon one way or another. I find I've shifted to thinking about how much mourning I'll have to do for the loss of the hope of EBF, and what my plan will be - will I keep using the SNS, will I keep pumping, etc. Sigh. It's so sad to let go of this hope.

[GailK]

I've been luring around, but wanted to butt in and have my say on Reglan, CityKid. I did Reglan w/#1 and wound up with a case of PPD that lingered for months and had me breaking into tears at the thought of my failed breastfeeding until just recently. I now have an 8 wo dd(tomorrow) and I now know why my bf failed w/#1--- mouth too small, nipples too large. The LCs I went to never even consideredn that (last time or this time, until the 3rd this time). I went on Domperidone which, with a rental Classic kept and increased my supply until dd could get a latch and do it herself ( on her 7 week bday). I am pumping now, 22 min, 3.8 oz, after feeding her an hour ago. I am weaning down from 160 mg of Dom (1st LC prescriped 80 mg, which was useless). Hold in there! I got no response until a week after upping to 180 and switching from Lactina to Classic. You may just need to last until baby mouth and coordination grow! Good luck--- and this board has been unbelievably helpful to me... I got my 1st supply of Dom from King's Pharm in Manhattan and just got a much cheaper batch from New Zealand in only 8 days.

Good Luck- Gail

[TurboClaudia]

welcome GailK! wish you weren't here and sending you lots of milky vibes... :dust

~claudia

[katiejon1]

Hi! My name is Katie. I think that I need to be here. With my first son, I had supply issues and never really felt that my milk came in. At 2 days shy of his 2 week check up, he was still 2 oz. away from his birthweight. Had I known then, I would not have started to supplement him. But his ped. scared me into it. I used Advent bottles, and that gave him 2 oz. after each feed. Needless to say, we stopped bf around 5 months.

I just gave birth last Sat. to my little Evie. She was 3 weeks 1 day early. I went to see the ob that my m/w works with, and had all the signs of pre-eclampsia. So, he sent me to the hospital to be induced. Aft.er breaking my water, and then starting pitocin, Evelyn was born around 9 Sat. night. Even though I had to be strapped to the bed b/c of pitocin, I didn't managed to do without the epidural or pain meds.

At the hospital, she nursed fairly well and I started taking Fenugreek with every meal to up my supply. I didn't want to go the same route that we ended up on with Caleb. She is now 9 days old and is a fairly good nurser, once she gets started. I took her in for a weight check and the NP scared me again b/c she had dropped in weight even more and was very "sleepy". I called my m/w in tears after we got home and her advice was much more bf friendly. So, we're supplementing after every 3 feeds and I'm just pretty much letting Evie suck for about an hour at each feed. She eats around every three hours. If she's asleep though, it's really difficult to wake her up to make her eat. If I pump after she eats, I get maybe 3/4 oz. from both breasts combined. When we took her back in for a weight check on Friday, she had gained weight with us doing this, but I am terrified that she's not going to continue to gain. She has not had a poopy diaper today, although, she has still had plenty of wet ones. I'm going in to see my m/w for a weight check before the "weight check" at the peds. office on Wed. (I see him on Fri.) I guess when I see her, we'll reassess and see if there is anything else I can do. I haven't heard of dom. that you all were talking about, but she did mention Reglan. What is it exactly, and can it cause ppd? Should I ask about the dom. first?

I'm also feeling more engorged and I have found that I'm leaky if she's eating out of 1 breast, the other 1 leaks some. Now I'm also having issues about getting her to latch on if I'm full. I have to pump to get the let down before she will latch on properly. In the meantime, I have a screaming baby, which is no fun for either of us. Does anyone have any tips for helping with her latch?

Thanks for all your replies and sorry to bombard everyone with all the questions. I just want this to work so badly!!!!! :D

[MaryJaneLouise]

I'm also feeling more engorged and I have found that I'm leaky if she's eating out of 1 breast, the other 1 leaks some. Now I'm also having issues about getting her to latch on if I'm full. I have to pump to get the let down before she will latch on properly. In the meantime, I have a screaming baby, which is no fun for either of us. Does anyone have any tips for helping with her latch?

Here's some info on slow let down. http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/letdown.html

You might try the Marmet technique for hand expression, that might be more convenient than a pump:

http://www.lactationinstitute.org/MANUALEX.html

Also try the reverse pressure technique if you are engorged:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/rev_pressure_soft_cotterman.html

[MarcyC]

katiejon - "dom" refers to the prescription drug, domperidone. It's difficult to get in the U.S. - a compounding pharmacy might make it for you. But a lot of us order it from overseas. It helps increase prolactin levels without the nasty side effects that Reglan can have.

[MaryJaneLouise]

Here's the FAQ on Domperidone:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=461626

[OTmama]

I have a question about a change in milk supply.

My son is 26 months and is still breastfeeding quite often most days. The change occurred a few months ago, and goes something like this; my right breast is fine and no change there, however, my left breast appears to have checked out of the nursing game! :(
I don't feel any let down on that side, nor does that side "tank up" (as my hubby says) when my son hasn't nursed for awhile. Needless to say, I wake up in the morning (he generally dosen't nurse during the night) very lopsided!!

I do have a cyst or some type of small benign lump in my left arm pit that has been there for at least 5-6 years without change or pain or other problems. Both breasts worked equally prior to a few months ago, but not anymore...???
Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Should I suspect the lump has something to do with it?

[TurboClaudia]

OTmama: don't have any words of wisdom to share with you... we are actually a group of mamas who are currently and have lived with low milk supply while breastfeeding our babies, so you might try posting a new thread to the breastfeeding board here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=27

or the breastfeeding challenges forum that i link in my siggie below.

~claudia

[katiejon1]

Thanks for the website. I'm going to take a good look at it. I'm worried about Evie again. She has been really sleepy all day, and I haven't gotten any poopy diapers. :( This sucks.

[TurboClaudia]

Thanks for the website. I'm going to take a good look at it. I'm worried about Evie again. She has been really sleepy all day, and I haven't gotten any poopy diapers. :( This sucks.
Dr. Jack Newman's website has some good video clips of babies latching on... let me see if I can find a good linky-loo...

http://www.drjacknewman.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=42

specifically look at the asymmetric latch links, as it's a slightly different method that works for many people.

:hug

~claudia

[lisavasmom]

Hi out there! I have a 8 month old son that is draining me!! He had been sleeping through the night, so when I'd wake up I'd have plenty of milk to pump for cereal during the day. Lately, he's been waking (I believe it's due to teething) and nursing a few times at night. By morning I can only pump maybe a 1/2 oz. and I usually use about 3 oz. for a feeding. I should also say that he's been a one sided nurser, so my left breast has never produced enough milk to really speak of. I've been just using water to mix the cereal with, but he doesn't seem to like it much, and will usually fuss -- HEY MOM what's this $#%@&*?!

So, I'm stumped. I swear I used to give my older daughter rice milk on occasion mixed with water, but now I noticed on the rice milk container it says not to use as infant formula. Whole milk is supposed to be delayed until the first birthday,so I still have 4 months to go.

Does any one have any suggestions? Has anyone had this problem? I'd appreciate any input!!

[Citykid]

Thanks for sharing your experience, GailK. I'm doing fine on the Reglan but unfortunately it's not upping my supply much - I've gone from 1/2 oz to 1 oz per pumping session. :( That's not enough to make a difference. I'm still not sure how long I'll keep trying if it doesn't work.

Article in the NY Times today, anyone? http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/13/health/13brea.html?8dpc

Terrible headline, good article. Guaranteed to make you cry if you're low-supply. But there is one low-supply mama quoted in there to make our case.

[Citykid]

Three insensitive people:

Lats week at my Bradley class reunion I'm telling one of the mamas my woes and she says "well you know, the grass is always greener." She then goes on to say how for a little while her nipples were bleeding. Of course that's not pleasant, but how could she compare that to not having the option to breastfeed?

Sunday at a party, I'm talking to a mama who asks me about nursing so I tell her about my situation and she says, "with my first daughter I had so much milk she couldn't get it all out so I was pumping so I would be comfortable but of course the more I pumped the more milk I made so I ended up with a freezer full of milk that I ended up just throwing away."

And the topper, of course, is a family member. I tell my aunt what's going on and emphasize how much it is breaking my heart. So she says "you really should breastfeed, honey, because it'll help you lose weight." Ouch! And then she goes on to talk about how breastmilk helps kids with intelligence and obesity. Thanks for making me feel worse about not being able to do it!

[TurboClaudia]

lisavasmom: you'd probably get better responses from the Breastfeeding forum (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=27) or the Life With a Babe forum (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=32)

CityKid: sorry about the insensitive people... :hug i was so scared of unsupportive comments that i didn't offer any information about our situation to barely anyone for a really long time, and it was really stressful for me. i have some online mama friends who were my lifeline during that time (from my ddc here on mdc) that helped me through, but i still wish i had some in real life people who could know the whole story. a few more know it now and know that i'm concerned for this new babe coming but i don't know how much i will share with them later this year. it was really isolating for me when we were struggling with the breastfeeding and the supplementing and the everything. that's probably not what you wanted to hear, but please know that you are not the only one trying to find the right balance of what works for your family... :hug

~claudia

[TurboClaudia]

hey mamas, another low supply mama needs our support/experiences with baby #2: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=468055

~claudia

[Ellie'sMom]

Hi fellow low supply mamas. I have often wanted to post my whole story here, but I am so often nursing or bottle nursing when online, that it never seems to work out. I have a question now, and am wondering if anyone has any insight. I nurse my nearly 9 month old twins and supplement via bottle each with 20-24 oz formula per day. They are starting to eat some solids, and I would love to start decreasing formula at some point. I am feeling really taxed by nursing, then bottle-feeding, then offering solids. If I offer solids 3 times a day it feels like the whole day is spent feeding babies! Could I just nurse, then offer solids? I produce maybe 2 oz from one side and 1/2-1 oz from the other (keep in mind 2 babies have to share this). I know that solids are supposed to just be for the experience at this point, but I also know that there are people who wean by a year, so it must be possible right? Just to be clear, I want to keep nursing as long as possible, it's just the bottles I am hoping to cut down on.

I'm really sleep-deprived today, so I hope this makes sense. :)
TIA!

[TurboClaudia]

hi Ellie'sMom! sorry i didn't get to respond sooner...

it seems that twins are really a whole different experience, and i am amazed that you are breastfeeding AND supplementing via bottle AND offering solids. wow. that is a lot of work.

i think it depends on your individual situation, but i don't know if i would have felt comfortable removing the formula from the equation given they are getting 20+ oz each day. is that each one getting 20+ oz each day or between the two?

that said, our son took off in his desire and ability to eat solid foods at around age 9.5 months. he went from eating a few tablespoons of oatmeal and some pear pieces for breakfast to eating an entire bowl of as much oatmeal as me AND a banana AND a little something else, too. it was astonishing, given that he was still pretty small-ish.

on a totally unrelated note, did i overreact on this other thread? http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=469845 feel free to pm me privately or just respond on that thread, as we are technically not supposed to discuss other threads within a thread.

~claudia

[Polkadots]

I'm Marci - I have a 5 month old cutie named Eli. I have low milk supply due to PCOS.

This month's challenge has been an attempted wean from DomPeridone. Boy was that a mistake. I had been having such great success with Blessed Thistle that I thought I might be able to wean off the Dom. Nope. 5 days after stopping taking it and my milk supply plummeted. Eli was not a happy camper as you can imagine.

I restarted it and things are now back to normal. I guess I learned my lesson!

[katiejon1]

Dr. Jack Newman's website has some good video clips of babies latching on... let me see if I can find a good linky-loo...

http://www.drjacknewman.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=42

specifically look at the asymmetric latch links, as it's a slightly different method that works for many people.

:hug

~claudia

Thanks Claudia. That was a great website. Even though I think that she's latching on fairly well, I think that those asymmetric links will be a big help.

[Ellie'sMom]

Thanks for the reply Claudia. Since I have a minute I am going to try to type a brief intro :)

I am Jenny. I nursed my dd for 2.5 years. She was an extremely slow gainer and I had to pump constantly to maintain my supply for her. I never had to supplement though, and decided the problem was her early bad latch and kind of let it go at that.

When my twins were born in Sept. they lost a bunch of weight at the beginning, but again I pumped like a mad woman and for the first couple of months they gained slowly, but adequately.At 3 months it all sort of fell apart. Ben went several weeks with no weight gain, and I started supplementing. I've not been able to get my supply back to meet their needs since in spite of seeing 2 LCs, lots of pumping, cranio-sacral therapy for the babies, Fenugreek, Blessed Thistle and Domperidone. One of the LCs discouraged us from using a SNS because of Ben's really poor latch, so we've used a bottle. I think this was a big mistake in hindsight, but I really lost momentum to try anything new. I've also been struggling with PPD for the last couple of months, which has made trying new strategies seem even more burdensome.

The cause of my low supply is still a mystery, though I do suspect that I have insufficient glandular tissue in at least one of my breasts. It is much smaller than the other and I've never pumped more than an ounce from it.

So that's me. Our current struggle involves how we are going to get rid of the formula. I have this idea in my head that it will magically disappear when they turn one. They get some formula during the night as well and I really want to go back to only nursing at night, but I'm not sure how to make this happen.

Baby needs me! Look forward to getting to know you all!

[sehbub]

Hi, mamas. I can't believe it took me so long to post my story here! I guess I kept seeing the EPers thread and thought I had posted here as well...apparently not!

My name is Sarah, and I have 3 girls. The oldest two, 6 and 4, are my "bonus" kids from my husband's first marriage, but call me "mommy" so I claim them as my own. The younger one looks just like me, so no one questions it, unless they find out how old I am (22). Our third DD is almost 2 months old, but isn't due for another week and a half! I went in to labor at 28 weeks, and they managed to hold it off until 30wks 2 days, when she just couldn't wait any longer and had to make her appearance. I started pumping within 6 hours of her birth so that as soon as she was able to take my milk, the NICU nurses would have some to give to her. DD spent 27 days in the NICU, and things seemed to be going okay for the first 3 weeks or so. I had a decent supply, and was getting as much as 24oz a day, all with a manual pump. Her last week in the hospital my supply dropped to about 16oz a day, but I attributed it to the stress of being 90 miles from my DDs and DH while trying to be there to care for DD3.

Within a few days of her homecoming, my milk dried up completely. I went three days pumping every 2 hours with absolutely no result. I wasn't even getting foremilk. My milk came back slightly (about 7 oz a day) when I started taking Blessed Thistle and using Fennel Oil. After about a week of that, it stopped again. I made the very difficult decision to call it quits with pumping. I had done all I could for 8 weeks, and was exhausted. I didn't pump for 24 hours, and was so painfully engorged that I pumped when we got home yesterday afternoon. I got almost 5 oz. So, I'm going to try and pump every 12 hours and see if my supply will slowly come back.

The only thing we haven't tried is prescription meds, because we can't afford to buy dom on the internet, and neither my DD's ped or my midwife will prescribe it for me. I also can't take Fenugreek because DD has a kidney condition, and the docs aren't sure what it would do to her kidney function.

It's heartbreaking, as you all know, to not be able to feed your babe the food he/she so needs. I spend many days feeling incredibly guilty, because I feel like I'm letting my DD down, especially considering that she's a preemie. I feel like I should be doing more, and don't deserve to have such a healthy, happy babe, since I can't even give her the amount of nutrition she needs. On my better days, I know that I'm doing the best I can and that's all anyone can ask of me, but when I look at her, I feel an overwhelming sense of fear and anger that I'm not able to do enough.

[mama_Agnieszka]

i might be stating the obvious, but is it possible that he was comfort-nursing?? meaning, not necessarily transfering milk... my first did this all the time...

[MaryJaneLouise]

I hope all you low supply mama can help me :twothumbs and :lol at this.

One of my 15 month old DSs really likes to tank up at bed time (I cosleep with the other one so it's not so much an issue). When I'm have a a good milk day, he drinks and drinks, then stops and BRAAAAAAP and giggles. It's such a good and :lol feeling :throb

[4 in 2005]

Hi, can I join here.

I had DS 11 years ago. I was determined to BF. I had good information for the time. (This was before the internet was what it is now...) My son had a great latch. Even the nurse that was training to be a LC said we looked like pros. He lost weight which was to be expected. However because I was a young mom trying to bf, and I was released after only 24 hours the ped wanted to see him at the office on Monday. (He was born on Saturday.) When we went he had lost more. So the ped wanted to do weight checks till he regained his birthweight. He kept telling me that would be within 2 weeks. He was very reassuring. He just assured me to keep nursing. Well by 4 weeks of age (well actually a day shy of 4 weeks) he was STILL losing! He went from 8lbs 12ozs to 7lbs 11ozs. He lost slowly but never had a gain at all. He was having a wet diaper every feeding (but they were NOTHING compared to how wet they were once we went to formula.) He was NOT having a dirty diaper every day more like every other day after about day 3. That SHOULD have keyed me off, but the ped said well some babies have a less frequent schedule.

At 4 weeks he started showing signs of dehydration so a nurse gave him a bottle. (They were trying to take a urine sample and there was no urine. I was not in the room DH was.) After that he was a diffrent baby, he was more awake and alert and so I tried one thing the ped suggested supplmenting after nursing. A few days of that and I was so frusterated and upset at how much formula he was taking I did not see how he could be getting anything from me at all. I had been pumping after feeding to try to increase my supply. So I tried to pump to give him what I had but I was unable to get anything. I figured it was my cheap pump.

DD#1-- I tried again, but this time I did even more research before she was born. I found out we had 2 LCs in the area now. One the nurse that was training whe I had DS and another that ran a store with bfing supplies. She was more active an alert from the get go then DS. I pumped with a hospital grade pump this time. However she followed a similar path. She lost some weight in the beggining (normal) but she still had not regained it by the time she was 4 weeks old. I was also taking Mother's milk tea with her as recommened by the LC. The ped and the LCs suggested I supplement and that was the final straw for our bfing. She did not even want to nurse at all after her first bottle. So I tried for a week to pump for her and never got more then droplets.

DD#2 I opted not to bf. The LC at the hosptial (that was first my nurse then the LC that saw me at discharge with DD) was floored. She kept going on and on about how we seemed to have a wonderful latch. She asked about nipple pain and I said I had very little to none, so she said that was a sign that we did have a good latch. So she was suprised I was unable to have enough supply for my kids.

I am now pg again. (I really need to change my username, I lost my baby I was PG with that was due in 2005.) I am really wanting to try to BF. I have 2 SNSs. That was the one recommendation that was made that I did not try because by the time I was able to find one to purchase with DD she was already only taking a bottle and I was to frusterated to try again. So I got an SNS before hand this time. I have started going to LLL. However I get frusterated there because they keep telling me it is supply and demand. I had the demand but never the supply.

It is nice to not feel alone. I am going to try to get the drug that starts with a D this time. (Sorry not sure how to spell it.) If I can't get it I am going to try fenugreek. I plan to pump to increase supply and use the SNS if I have to supplment so that I don't get to where my DD wants the bottle not the breast. I hope to be able to wean off the SNS but if I can't at least I will know that my baby is getting what I have for her.

Jennifer

[TurboClaudia]

Jennifer: :hug and :w and wish you didn't have to be here... your plan sounds great. wishing you a peaceful and healthy pregnancy and many milky vibes...

~claudia

[MaryJaneLouise]

Hi, can I join here....

I am now pg again. (I really need to change my username, I lost my baby I was PG with that was due in 2005.) I am really wanting to try to BF. I have 2 SNSs.

Jennifer

:Hug :hello Hi Jennifer, so sorry to hear of your pregnancy loss, and the loss of your previous breastfeeding relationships.

:twothumbs that you are trying again!

Please read my FAQs on domperidone (that's probably the D drug you are thinking of) It has a link to the kellymom site about low supply, and instruction on how to get the drug if you need it this time.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=461626

Also, just curious. Do you have some sort of known hormonal problem, like low thyroid or PCOS? Those can affect your supply also :(

[4 in 2005]

Thanks for the welcome. I have had my thyroid tested several times and it is normal. No one ever suspected a hormonal problem till after my miscarriage. I went from extremly regular cycles to 14-40 day cycles. That testing was all normal as well.

I wish someone could give me an answer as to why. But in leiu of that I am just going to try again and see what happens.

Jennifer

[mimid]

Hi all! I think I posted an intro a while back, but I can't remember so short version...triplets, c/s, bad reaction to meds, no support and starting to pump after 3 days, no milk. :lol Really, that is about it. I was on so much stuff after my c/s to get the PIH down and to counteract the Duomorph that I was unable to ask about getting a pump earlier or keep my pumping schedule after I got it and the nurses sucked! So now I'm taking Dom, assorted galactalogues, latching the girls on more often and for longer periods. I'm also doing my first power pumping session today!

Now a question for those of you trying to bf more than 1 babe...what do you do with a boob hog? My eldest just wants to stay latched all the time. She doesn't nap well without it and all night long she expects to be there. We haven't gotten down tandem nursing yet, but whenever we try, she just stares at her sister like "What in the heck are you doing here?" I can definately tell the difference between the girls' latches and their demeanor on the boob and Chaya is easily the best. But since I'm already dealing with low supply, I feel bad that the other 2 girls aren't getting much of what I have after their sister. I've tried to make her wait but she wails away and won't take a bottle until after some boob time so dh can't even feed her while I nurse another. It's even gotten to the point where I'm in bed with Chaya latched on all night and dh is in another bed with Shira and Batya and I get up to help bottle feed one of them while Chaya cries in bed waiting for me to return. I don't want to just abandon any hope of a bf'ing relationship with Shira and Batya but it seems like I'm being pushed in that direction. It doesn't help that none of the girls eat well when one of them is crying. Any advice?

[bunnykae]

I've been trying to re-order Dom, and cannot get past the home page...any link page just stalls out when loading. Does anyone know a phone number to order? I have a number for previous order issues, but it's NOT a phone number to actually order a scrip. I imagine there's one on the web site, if only it would download. Thanks!!!

[TurboClaudia]

hmmm... looks like their site is down right now. will try for you later.

~claudia

[musicoholic]

hi all! I'm Bee from Australia:wave ... was dead set adamant I would ebf my ds till he was 12mo (or at least 6mo especially as dh has allergies:sneeze: , asthma and eczema)... but wasn't to be... :( my milk never came in - so I found out at ds' 6week check - and he was a pound lighter than his birth weight... doc suggested topping up and expressing (which I did)... and ended up feeding/pumping/feeding/pumping without a break for about 48 hours... :zzz ds and I were both exhausted so really had no other choice/was given no alternative but to ff... I was devastated (understatement of the century:shake ), but at least ds was gaining - doc said she wanted to see him gain a pound before she saw him again (8 days later)... he'd gained 2!!!! so although I was an emotional mess because I'd failed (imo) (realised I had ppd when he was about 8mo) - ds was healthier and gaining weight. doc said we would have known he wasn't getting enough because he'd cry/fuss/whatever - but he never did!! from day 1 he's been the happiest baby I've ever seen (except when he's teething! :lol)

am planning on trying again (should there be an "again":surprise: ) - as adamant as ever ... do fenugreek and the other herbs really work? I'm iffy on taking prescribed meds due to dh's propensity for allergies :)

[mochimama]

I'm new here with a 3.5 week old dd. Saw a lactation consultant late last week after dd's continual weight loss and am on a 10 minute each boob, pump for 10 minutes, supplement with formula schedule. It's only been three days since I started pumping so no real progress yet. Started fenugreek yesterday and hoping to find some Mother's Milk tea at the grocery store tomorrow--trying to stay super hydrated and eating oatmeal every morning. I need to go pump now, but I'm anxious to read all the posts in this thread. I was so distraught last week before we knew what was going on. Poor dd was so hungry! But now things are under better control and I'm just waiting for an increase in supply (fingers crossed).

I had to be induced because of ruptured membranes with meconium in the water and my labor didn't start on its own for 12 hours. Pitocin contractions were more than I could handle so to my shame I took an epidural.
This was exactly my situation minus the meconium. It was so hard for me to take the epidural, but after six hours of pitocin contractions, it couldn't take it anymore either. We shouldn't feel shame, though--we did the best we could under the circumstances. Hope you can let it go...:o

[sehbub]

musicoholic- I was on Blessed Thistle, and put a dab of fennel oil on my chest all the time, and my supply did increase somewhat. I couldn't take fenugreek due to DD's kidney condition, but I've heard lots of good things! These mamas all have great advice!

I'm also hoping next time will be easier!

[3happygirls]

Hi, all. I'll introduce myself briefly. I've needed to post here....doing fine...needing to post here...doing fine, etc. etc. Right now....I'm at the needing help stage. I'm nursing 8-mo.old Rose. I have almost 4-year-old twin girls that I "wasn't able to nurse". Before now, I thought that was true, but now that I know more....well, I didn't nurse them, regardless. Right now, I feel like my supply just will DROP OFF drastically one day. Rose was breech, had to be turned at birth, tube down the throat, low weight, slow gainer, high palate, etc. etc. FINALLY...I feel like we figured it out (at about 5 months). She started solids at 6 and has been grabbing at food, crying at the sight of my fork, reaching for my water glass, screaming when I take it away...all of that. She just EATS AND EATS!! Currently, she's waking 3-4 times a night. The other night, I nursed her for 45 minutes, back & forth on both sides and she was still pulling back at my breast trying to get more let down. FINALLY...I felt so bad for her, I had dh make a bottle, then another!!! :( She ate 8 oz. at midnight. What's going on??? My supply drastically drops at the AF time. Taking Fenugreek off and on. Want to CLW, confused about how much solids. Any thoughts?

[Autoemesiss]

Hi all,

Gosh I wish I found this site about 6 months ago. My story is very similar to a lot of people and 6 months ago would have never believed it.

Anna was born by induction. The placenta was full of pockets (grade 3 placenta) and the risk of it coming out in pieces was pretty high, so I was induce a week early. Labor was 34 hours, 30 of them were natural. I just couldn't take it anymore. I was only 4 cm and the contrations were in my thighs. I don't regret the decision for the epidural, just know that I will never want to be induce again.

After day one, I started to develop blisters on my nipples and Anna cried all the time. She was born 7 14 (after 7L of fluild antrapartum) and left 7lb 4 oz after 1 day 1/2. I had only one breast feeding (one breast only) with a lactation consultant and no one else in the hospital (not a single nurse). I had even told every shift and the lactation consultants that I was have a lot of pain and blistering. Well day 3 Anna was down to 7lb 0oz. Day 5 she did not have a wet diaper in 12 hours. We then supplimented her 1 feed and the next morning call a LC. My DD had not been latching for 6 days. I learned the asymetrical latch and the next day she had gained 5 oz. But 3 days later she was back to 7lbs 0oz and still had not transitioned from meconium stools. For personal reasons we switched LC and then started mother's milk tea, reglan and pumping after every feed. After two months, I stopped pumping and just supplimented after every feed. My LC had told me it was probably genetic (my mom and her mom had problems BFing) and there really wasn't much I could do after the first 5 days.

When DD was 4 1/2, I went to another LC as a last ditch effort before I quit BF entirely. I was depressed and still on the reglan. I went off the Relgan, started on domperidone, goats rue, fenegreek and started pumping again. DD went from 5 oz of formula down to 3 1/2 oz per feed. And we have pewttered out there. I have never been able to get more than a few drops to 1/4 oz of breastmilk while pumping.

So now DD is almost 7 months old, I am still supplimenting and trying to deal with the fact that I haven't failed at breastfeeding. Wait, actually, I am not dealing well with it at all. I don't cry anymore, but on day 5 I truly felt my heart shred open. And months later, I feel bruised but no longer raw. I am glad I found this forum. I hoping to learn how to mend the heart a little because I don't think people live like this forever.

Thanks.
Sue

P.S. The kicker of this whole thing, is that I am an ER nurse and have taught many women how to latch with their babies.....and yet couldn't get my own baby to latch...

[3happygirls]

:Hug to you, mama! I'm so happy you found us and hope that you find the support and encouragement that you need. You MUST know in your heart that you have given it your all...you have hung in there so much and worked your heart out to give your baby the best. I still have regret over not *possibly* tyring hard enough with my twins. I wish I would've found some better support and information before I quit. It sounds to me like you've done a lot of hunting and searching for the right support. AND...it sounds like you've nursed her a lot!! I hope she is a healthy, happy baby and you can give yourself the freedom to be a happy, HEALTHY mama! That will be the best for her if you love yourself through this. Not to say that it's not hard....I still look at my 4yr. olds and wish I could've done better. You know what?? They're 4, they're smart, they're healthy and sassy!! :lol Take care of yourself!

[Taryn237]

I'm very glad I found all of you too! Atleast now I know I'm not alone in this. Joshua was born by c-section on 6/25 2 weeks late after a few days of induction and a failure to descend. He was still at -3 with molding so he just wasn't fitting out. I did get to nurse fairly quickly in the recovery room, maybe 45 min after giving birth. Basically my midwife held my boob and shoved him on it not quite what I had imagined of my first nursing experience. He weighed 8 lb. 13 oz. and we refused supplementing even though when we left the hospital he was 7 lb. 14 oz. and dehydrated. That was 3 days post partum. I have no idea when my milk came in but on day 5 he was pooping more so some time around then. I just knew something wasn't right. I weighed him at the pedi when he was 2 weeks and a couple days and he was only up to 8 lb. 2 oz. so he only gained 4 oz. in almost 2 weeks. We went to a lactation consultant and from weighing him before and after a feeding discovered he only received 1.2 oz. from me. She gave us some herbs and suggested giving him an ounce of formula after each feeding. I was pretty anti-bottle at this point so I did it with a medicine dropper. He started gaining again but this wasn't what I wanted so since then I've done everything I can think of to increase my supply. We've done fenugreek, blessed thistle, brewer's yeast, reglan, pumping after feedings, and now I'm on dom after bad side effects with the reglan. I had so much hope with the dom but I've been on it for almost 2 weeks without much change. I'm thinking of upping my dosage from 90mg to 120mg but we got it from a compounding pharmacy and had to pay out of pocket (the insurance should reimburse us) and I don't want to go through my refills too quickly. We keep having to up the amount of formula Joshua is getting too so he keeps gaining at a good rate. We are using an SNS so atleast he is getting it at the breast and atleast I have enough to keep him satisified at night. I have PCOS and after reading about breast hypoplasia online and looking at some pics I think I have that too. I really want a long and satisifying nursing relationship (especially since Joshua's birth was so awful) and if we need the SNS to give us that I guess I just need to suck it up and deal with it. I do have a couple questions for you ladies though:

Should I wake him at night to nurse? We co-sleep and nurse on demand but last night he wouldn't nurse at all he was just too sleepy. I'm making sure he has a few good long naps today (he's sleeping in my sling right now) but I can't guarantee he won't want to sleep all night again. Should I let him sleep and just get up and pump instead?

[TurboClaudia]

Taryn: welcome to our group, mama! wish you didn't have to be here...

i will write more later when my son is napping. sorry for the lag in my response, but the weekends don't allow me much time for the computer right now.

~claudia

[TurboClaudia]

hey mamas, can you help this mama out? we use a lact-aid, so i don't know all the tips for the sns... http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=511076

~claudia

[scubamom]

hey mamas, can you help this mama out? we use a lact-aid, so i don't know all the tips for the sns... http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=511076

~claudia

i will go and take a look, ive been using for sooooooo long now, i should be able to help:wink

[BellyBear]

Hi, my name is Hope, and I'm not sure if this is even the correct place to post this, but here it is. My baby girl was born 07/10/06, and through previous advice from this forum, I have been able to maintain an decent milk supply. Thank You! Then, out of nowhere (or so it seems) I completely stopped letting down when I pump at work. Today I got a sad ounce after pumping three times with no let down. I'm so sad that we had to give Annabelle formula, and I want to get back to the way things were as soon as possible. I'm still taking fenugreek, eating oatmeal, and pumping often, yet my milk supply seems to be waning...and it's only been a week! I still nurse exclusively at night and on weekends, but I'm afraid if I don't do something I soon won't be making enough for when I am around Annabelle and can let down. It also seems like every month I get terrible cramps for a day or two, but no period. I don't feel particularly stressed at work, I'm happy at home, and although we just moved, I'm actually relieved because we are saving money. What's going on???

Hope

[nancyfore]

I just found this thread tonight. My name is Nancy and I have a ds born in April. I have never had a large supply. Never got more than 2 ounces from each breast. Now not getting anything from the pump and baby is getting almost nothing.I do the herbs, oatmeal,cosleep, etc. He nurses about 1.2 seconds and starts screaming and doesnt stop until something that runs fast is inserted. He has been on the low side of the charts and still wears newborn size at 6 mos. I want to exclusively breastfeed but cannot keep the supply up. How much does stress really play in all this?

Any ideas to help would be greatly appreciated.....

[puppeteermom]

Hi, I have one dd and am expecting baby #2 any day now. I struggled with abysmally low/non-existent supply after the birth of my daughter six years ago. It turns out I have hypoplastic breast tissue/insufficient glandular tissue. I've done loads of research about increasing supply, but most of it didn't work for me because of the severity of my condition.

Using an SNS allowed me to continue having a successful breastfeeding relationship with my daughter. She looooved to nurse, even though she was getting primarily formula via the SNS.

There have been some new things I've discovered this year. I am hopeful about the herb goat's rue and plan on starting a regimine as soon as the baby is born. I also plan on supplementing with some herbs that release prolactin (i.e. fenugreek). Oddly enough, Saw Pawmetto, which is more commonly linked to prostate health, can affect breast glandular tissue as well. I'm working on a tea recipe which will hopefully work on both the glandular tissue issue and the prolactin element, as well.

Domperidone has had good results for many people. I'm not sure exactly what it affects, but if you can get a scrip written for it, it's worth a shot and doesn't have the depressive side-effects of Reglan.

I really feel for everyone with supply issues. Prior to my own issues, I really was flummoxed as to why ANYONE would ever supplement. It seemed so impossible that a woman would be unable to do this natural thing. I'm still a bit puzzled by women who have a perfectly decent supply and choose to use formula. I was completely blindsided by my inability to EBF, but the baby needs to eat in order to grow...so I did what I had to do. I was thankful for our breastfeeding relationship, though, and for the support of my LC and mid-wife.

Good luck...

[Taryn237]

You can dom without a script from www.globaldrug.tv it hasn't really helped me much though personally. My story is at the top of the page.

[jenny-g]

I just found this thread tonight. My name is Nancy and I have a ds born in April. I have never had a large supply. Never got more than 2 ounces from each breast. Now not getting anything from the pump and baby is getting almost nothing.I do the herbs, oatmeal,cosleep, etc. He nurses about 1.2 seconds and starts screaming and doesnt stop until something that runs fast is inserted. He has been on the low side of the charts and still wears newborn size at 6 mos. I want to exclusively breastfeed but cannot keep the supply up. How much does stress really play in all this?

Any ideas to help would be greatly appreciated.....

Oh, I don't think stress plays all that much in it, compared to insufficient glandular tissue, hormonal problems, etc. My stress certainly did not change when I went on dom but my supply doubled (even though I still can only meet half her needs).

Some of us need to suppliment- and we should. The baby needs to eat first. As long as you try to nurse before you suppliment, and pump if your baby refuses to nurse much at all, you are doing all you can. It sounds like it's time for you to bump up the suppliments.

If it makes you feel better, you can get organic formula at Walmart (parent's choice brand) that has a decent formulation with omega-3, and doesn't support Nestle or anything (although I suppose it supports walmart!). We use the organic formula now and are happy with it, she's luckily had no probs. -j

[TurboClaudia]

stress can play into supply issues a lot. more tomorrow when i have more than half a brain and two hand to type.

~c

[puppeteermom]

Hello,

Just curious if anyone knows of herbal stuff to support IGT/milk production besides Goat's Rue. I know there are other herbs out there that have an effect on various glands (i.e. Saw Pawmetto) and am wondering about an herbal tea designed specifically for IGT/hypoplasia.

Any thoughts?
Heidi

[TurboClaudia]

have you checked the www.mobimotherhood.org site for more info? i will also consult my copy of Mother Food to see if there are any other ideas in there.

returning to the stress idea, some women do experience significant (mostly temporary) decreases in milk supply when stressed. some women have a plentiful supply and the decreases are smaller so baby still gains and grows well and once the stress is diminished, the supply returns. other women experience stress and their milk supply decreases and their baby becomes unhappy with a smaller supply. i would think that similar to labor, where the stress hormone adrenalin can inhibit the uterine contraction hormone oxytocin and stall labor, that adrenalin can also inhibit the milk production hormone prolactin and also the milk ejection reflex hormone oxytocin and cause changes in milk supply and milk ejection.

do we want a new low milk supply tribe thread for the winter of 2006?

~claudia

[MaryJaneLouise]

New thread!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=6560776#post6560776