Support for moms unable to breastfeed

[SleepyMamaBear]

there was a thread like this in the Tribes section awhile back.I know there are a few of us on here, that for one reason or another REALLY truely dont produce breastmilk.

My Intro:
my name is Tiffany. when i was 15 i was sexually assaulted, i was left with SEVERE PID chlamydia and scarred fallopian tubes and uterus.
i was told my three seperate Ob's that i would never be a mother. that IF, and that was the catch, IF i ever got pregnant, that it would end in miscarriage.
I DID get pregnant, and i did miscarry, i figured, "hey, these male Dr's in the allopathic medical world sure do know what they are talking about."
so when i was 17 and the opportunity for a breast reduction came along i took it.
my surgeon warned me that if i were to have children i would have a small chance at beaing able to produce any milk, and that the milk i DID produce would never be enough to sustain a human infant's life.
well, trusting the three OB's that told me i wouldnt ever ever ever be a mother, and being 17 and not even giving adoption and BF an adopted baby a second thought, i had the surgery.
i went from a 38-ii to a 38-b/c. i now sit comofrtably at a 42-c, but who cares, cause these babies never see a bra!!! :wink

so 11/23/99 i have my reduction.

i find out 11/15/03 i was pregnant, but this time i knew i wouldnt miscarry. i KNEW in my heart my daughter was coming to me.

i started grieving the loss of our breastfeeding relationship then.

i was determined to breastfeed, thinking that if i could just convince my own body that it was something it NEEDED to do, it would. that i wouldnt need to ever use formula.

here is where i hang my head and admit that i didnt do much research to my options of alternatives to bottles, because in my mind, i wouldnt need them.

7/15/04 Addy graces us with her FABULOUS presence. we just eat her up. she is prefection in every way. and i am instantly head over heels in love with her.

the first moment i could, i put her to breast... She suckles!!!!! hooray, success! and she has a PERFECT latch!
she nurses on both sides about once an hour for the first three days, and in between nursing i pump, because the hospital LC told me that was the ONLY way she could get any of my breastmilk, was if i ripped my freaking nipples off with a machine and caused blood blisters to form! (nope, not bitter, not even a tiny bit)

Addys 3rd day of life. her weight is 11% below birthweight.
i am bullied by the Drs into giving her formula in a bottle.
at that point both of the hospital LC's that came in told me there was no other option. that i could nurse her for comfort, but that i HAD to feed her via a bottle.

*bangs head on wall for not researching SNS*!!!!

the entire time i gave Addy her first bottle of formula i cried. it was the hardest thing i had done in my entire life.
harder than breast reduction surgery and recovery, harder than being induced, and the subsequent c-sec and its recovery, harder than loosing a loved one.
because it signaled the death of what could have been a very positive breastfeeding relationship.

at two months old Addy stopped nursing for comfort.

at 9 months old i discovered by accident online the SNS and Lact-Aid systems.
i cried almost all day, knowing that they existed, and that they could have saved me from feeding her with a bottle.

at almost a year after she was born i found MDC.
thank Goddess!!!!

so now my plans for all future children is to feed them via an SNS or Lact-aid system at the breast with as much donated mamas milk as possible, and as much organic goats milk formula that they need.

as for bottle feeding Addy. we bottle nursed, she was always held or snuggled close while drinking her bottles, we held them, and made eye contact, and bonded in almost the same way as someone who is able to nurse with their breasts. only, there werent any wonderful endorphins making me relax, just the sad depressing thought that i had failed as a woman, failed as a mother, and failed as a nourisher.

can you tell i still greive the loss of my nursing relationship?

i think i probably always will.

even after i have all the children we plan on having, even after i make strong positive loving nursing relationships with them.

i will always mourn.

as for Addy. she nurses her baby dolls.
cause thats how babies are suppoed to be fed.
or so we say around these parts.

so if you made it this far in my post, and are a mother unable to produce breastmilk, and want to talk about it. please join me.

if you use an SNS, a Lact-aid system, a home made system, if you bottle nurse, if you feel like you have to hide the fact that you ff your child on these boards (i thought i did for a while, trust me you dont, MOST of the women here are really understanding and compasionate), you are more than welcome to join me here.

[CrunchyKat]

Wow, I just want to give you a big :hug . I haven't gone through the problems you have, but reading your thread brought tears to my eyes. I'm so sorry you had to go through that and your entry proves just how much you love and care for your daughter. Gosh I hope you print this off and show it to her one day. Good for you, for nursing her for 2 months anyway, that's great! You did the best you could. Gosh, lemme just give you another :hug . It's great that you posted this so other mommies out there who are having trouble bfing can find support within you. :love

[SleepyMamaBear]

thanks Kat.
at one point in time there was a thread like this one in the tribes section, and it was really nice knowing i wasnt the only one who COULDNT produce much milk, if any at all.

i really want this thread to be a place where moms like myself, no matter their reason, be it reduction, true lack of tissue, hormone imbalances, Mastectomy, what have you, can come and feel welcome and safe and secure knowing that others HAVE been there.

Addy and i will prbably talk about her nursing later on in life. probably when i have more children, i am sure she will be curious why they dont get any bottles.
she knows that mamas make milk for babies, and she has seen plenty of nursing babies and toddlers to know what it looks like, and sometimes she even asks for a "sip a mama milk" so i oblige and lift my shirt and she pretend sips, not latching on. so seeing me nurse future babies wont be a HUGE mystery to her, but i hope to one day be able to tell her how sorry i am that she wasnt able to have that same nursing relationship.

but as far as bonds go, we are BONDED. so tight, inseperable.
well ok not completely inseperable, but we are bonded really really tightly. we have a very healthy attatched mother daughter relationship. and i thank AP for that.
and my guts.
doing what i felt was right for her, the snuggles, and co-sleeping. etc, things that shocked everyone else, that cemented our bond

[sehbub]

At the moment, I'm in a similar situation.

my DD was born 10 weeks early on 4/20, and spent 27 days in the NICU. Within 6 hours of her birth (I didn't even get to touch her after she was born, and lost the homebirth I so wanted) I started pumping, and have been pumping every two to three hours for the last 40 days. Last week, the same week she came home from the hospital, my milk dried up. It just stopped. I have never breastfed my daughter, because her mouth is too small to latch, but had, up until last week, at least been able to feed her with my milk. Now I can't even get enough milk out for one feeding.

I was using a manual pump until now, and my parents just rented me an electric pump. I'm getting almost a full ounce at each session now, which for me is huge. Unfortunately, she's drinking close to two ounces at each feeding now. The routine is that I pump all day and save it up for her to drink the next day, and at night we feed her formula so that we can get a jump start on the next day. That way at most she's only getting three formula feedings in a 24 hour period.

My biggest fear in all of this is that I will never get to breastfeed my baby girl. I so wanted to nurse her until she was at LEAST a year old, if not longer, and now I feel like I've missed the boat on getting to do that. We'll try an SNS, but I'm preparing myself to pump every three hours for the next year.

Anyone have experience in nursing a preemie and having a successful BF relationship? It's heartbreaking.

[beansavi]

Addy's mom: You are awesome. And an awesome, mother, too I'd be willing to bet. She is truly blessed to have a Mama like you. I can tell you love her so much-and I'm over the Internet- so I know that sweet girl can feel it!

Your love sustains and nourishes her. What a blessing!:heartbeat

[SleepyMamaBear]

thanks Beansavi, it means alot to know that others can see the love i have for her.

sehbub,
i havent been in your situation. :hug
have you tried taking some galactogues? fennugreek, blessed thistle, Dom?
oats help too. a daily bown of oatmeal, and Barley is another helper. sounds bland but a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast, and some barley with dinner, drinking barley water, taking fennugreek, blessed thistle, other galactogues, drinking plenty of water, and some mothers milk tea, those should all help at least a little to increase your supply.
how amazing and dedicated you are.
having a preemie, and now pumping issues.
have you also visited the low supply tribe? i know ALOT of mamas over there have good advic on helping supply issues,
and a new electric hospital grade pump should help too.
big :hug s to you mama

[Fyrestorm]

I too am in your boat. My dd was an necessary HB transfer, an unnecessary c-section with an unnecessary 1 week stay in NICU. Because she only has one kidney (so what?) they wouldn't give her ANYTHING by mouth for 2 days (IV only) then they insisted via threat to call CPS that she only have a bottle so they could see what she was taking in and putting out. Finally after another 48 hours of this nonsense, they "allowed" me to try to let her latch. Needless to say this was a HUGE failure. I was pumping like mad...1/2 hour each side every three hours. I worked with a lactation consultant who was very sympathetic but after 5 months of exclusively pumping, I dried up...it was like overnight. I tried everything I could think of but nothing...I wanted to kill somebody...so after 5 months of exclusively BM I had to finally admit defeat. I was so exhausted. I would spend an hour feeding her then another hour pumping every three hours for 5 months....I just couldn't take it anymore. I feel horrible about the whole thing and I wish I had it to do all over again...I would have let them call CPS and left AMA. I would have left the state or country if I had to.

Thank the goddess, I have a beautiful, healthy 2 year old dd and we are as bonded as could be...But I will always mourn the loss of the BF relattionship that was taken away from us.

[SleepyMamaBear]

Fyrestorm,:hug s for you too mama.
its a tough road, not being able to give our children what they need to survive, having to settle for second(or really fourth) best with formula.
we are all fighters, troopers, mothers. we love our babies SO much, and would do anything in the world to provide for them.
so it breaks our hearts when our bodies arent able to give what we so badly need them to.

and another BIG :hug for the hb transfer and c-sec.

mine was an unecessary induction leading to a c-sec.

its nice to have a place here to be able to share our stories.

[Fyrestorm]

Fyrestorm,:hug s for you too mama.
its a tough road, not being able to give our children what they need to survive, having to settle for second(or really fourth) best with formula.
we are all fighters, troopers, mothers. we love our babies SO much, and would do anything in the world to provide for them.
so it breaks our hearts when our bodies arent able to give what we so badly need them to.

and another BIG :hug for the hb transfer and c-sec.

mine was an unecessary induction leading to a c-sec.

its nice to have a place here to be able to share our stories.

:grouphug to you too....Don't ya just hate Doc's sometimes!!!

[Amoreena]

http://www.internetbabies.com/MOBI/
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/mobi/

and a great support organization for those recovering from cesarean:

http://ican-online.org
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ican-online/

the two organizations could work hand in hand, if they don't already.

[TurboClaudia]

MOBI actually has a new website at www.mobimotherhood.org

And although the yahoogroup that MOBI has is great, I found the format to be very time consuming. The women there are amazing, yes, and I learned a lot from them in the short time I was able to read it regularly. I still use it as a resource when I have a question.

And Tiff and other mamas unable to breastfeed, :grouphug Thanks for sharing your stories.

~claudia

[SleepyMamaBear]

i had to unsubscribe to the yahoo MOBI group. it moved very fast for me, i am not currently nursing, and not very many if any mamas on there were reduction moms. i go to www.bfar.org for my chatting with mamas in a similar situation.

and Claudia,
thank you.

[a_work_in_progress]

I have insufficient tissue. I tried every galactagogue in the book. The only thing that seemed to work was Reglan, but the doctors at the time weren't willing to prescribe it for longer than a week. That left us to using the SNS much of the time.

Now I'm pregnant again, and I have a doctor who's willing to prescribe Reglan so I can breastfeed! I'm SO HAPPY! Hopefully it'll work again.

[mamanurse]

I'm so glad to see this forum. I feel like I can finally get support for the loss of my breastfeeding relationship on MDC that I need. So, here's the story.

After an uncomplicated pg that was deemed complicated because of my history with lupus, I delivered a healthy girl unmedicated in the hospital. I was so relieved that she was healthy and that I had the birth that I almost wanted (I wanted a homebirth), that I didn't even think about breastfeeding being a problem. When I put her to breast, she never latched. I got LCs involved and they decided that I had flat nipples and a nipple shield would be the solution:bang . That was MISTAKE #1. They brought in a pump and I used it to draw out my colostrum and feed it to dd through the nipple shield with a syringe. After leaving the hospital, we saw more LCs that moved us to an SNS. I was pumping ever 2-3 hours to maintain my supply and using EBM. By 6 weeks, dd had just about learned to bf and was mostly weaned off the nipple shield.

I went back to work/school and dd got bottles of EBM during the day MISTAKE #2. Little by little, she began refusing the breast:bawl . I was devastated. The relationship we had worked so hard to establish was in jeopardy and I could not quit school/work to be with her 24 hours a day.

Now, we only nurse in the evening before bed and in the morning if I'm there before dd wakes up :bag: I'm essentially an exclusive pumper since dd does not nurse enough to empty my breasts. She's there for comfort (which I'm happy to provide), but doesn't suckle milk out.

Even though I feel proud that dd has never had formula, I'm still mourning the loss of our relationship and am looking forward to the support I will find in this forum.

[RootBeerFloat]

Wow, it's such a relief to read these stories. DD is 14 months now and I am so still mourning the loss of our breastfeeding relationship.

My milk never came in after I gave birth. Our homebirth wound up in a hospital transfer and the birth was rough, but at least it was vaginal. I nursed her as soon as I was stiched up, and she latched and sucked like a champ. She nursed a ton in the first 24 hours and then stopped, I couldn't get her to take the breast for anything. She had jaundice and was getting more and more sedated . . . then we wound up in the hospital under lights with formula and donor breastmilk feeding from a bottle for a few days, then on to an SNS. I hated that stupid thing, it made me cry, but at least we were "nursing."

I was pumping like fool and using every galactagogue that we could think of, including domperidone. It helped a little but not much. I produced 2 oz total at the pump on a good day, and dd started refusing the breast because nothing was coming out. It was so awful, I cried all the time.

When dd was around 2 months old, I quit producing at the pump entirely. I'd pump for 30 mins every 3 hours, and nothing. I worked with a lacatation consultant who helped me figure out that dd would accept the breast about an hour after bottle feeding because she was full but not too full to want to nurse. I knew there were a few drops in there and I really wanted her to have them. When she started to accept the breast again, we nursed once per day, then more often as time went on.

Fast forward to today, dd still nurses at my empty breasts every day, especially overnight and during naptimes. It is extremely painful for me to nurse more than 10-15 mins at a time because there's so little milk in there, which sucks for all of us because there's no sleep if there's no breast. We have these 2 hour marathon nursings in the early am that I HATE, but I hate putting up with a crabby screaming baby all day long because she's overtired. I feel sad and resentful and so frustrated, I don't understand why I can't make milk for this darling little baby who I love so much and who is so great at nursing (and who loves to do it). What the heck is wrong with me?

So, yeah, I get the mourning the breastfeeding relationship. I'm so thankful that we still get to nurse, but it has come with it's own mess of problems and so few people have experience with this problem that I can't get any good advice. Mostly I get people trying to increase my milk supply, which is great, I really want to, but it's just not happening. Ugh.

[RootBeerFloat]

whoops, duplicate

[pookel]

I am so happy to see this forum! :)

I guess I am not totally qualified as "unable to breastfeed." Essentially what I had was flat nipples and bad advice. I think his latch must have been wrong, because although he was sucking hard and I was leaking all over the place, he wasn't gaining weight. At his two-week appointment he was 8 oz. below birth weight. :( I had a doctor who pushed formula at every opportunity and nurses who all showed me different techniques and assured me that since he had such a great sucking reflex and my milk was clearly coming in, I wouldn't have any problems. I ended up supplementing and going about half and half for nine months, but he preferred the bottle, and my supply eventually dried up completely.

Next time ... things will be different. I will insist on a real LC and start pumping and storing milk early. I will get help on day 1 ... not on day 14. I will not be overconfident that if I feel full and he's nursing a lot, he must be OK.

My heart goes out to those of you who really, truly, could not nurse at all - what I went through was difficult, but I can't imagine how much harder it must have been for you.

[sehbub]

Here's my peanut. 5 pounds, 6 ounces yesterday, which is two pounds more than her birth weight! She's 6 weeks old now.

We're going to LLL this morning, so hopefully we can get some good advice there!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/samanthab/153152741/

[mamanurse]

Ahhhh, Samantha is so cute. I love her bright eyes! Keep up the good work!

[peaceful_mama]

Hi...I'm Melanie, and ZZ is 19 months old, but I still mourn our bf relationship. We're still bottlenursing, and I figure anybody who wants to say I shouldn't can well, um, :censored because if it hadn't been for HORRIBLE advice and RUDE pp nurses at the hospital he was born at, he would still be nursing. The plan was to nurse until he was at least 2. (Well, 2, the "at least' kind of got added on as I met people who went past 2.)

To make a long story short and give you an idea what I went through, I was told my child was so severly jaundiced that if I did not allow them to give him a bottle, he had a high risk of ending up blind and/or mentally retarded. (I later found out his level was 8 when they said that. The highest it ever got was 14, after he was home, then it lowered. I was told they don't even begin to consider lights and things until 16.)

And when I asked one nurse to please help us, she just looked at me and said "What are you going to do when you get home?" in this high-school snotty tone. (Like I wasn't already thinking that thank you....)

Yes, I did happen to call their department that takes complaints. I told them everything from that comment to the fact that the nurses NEVER came back when they said they would, and their LC only encouraged pumping, not anything that would help me actually nurse him.

And they told me to pump at least every 3 hours. Not enough, as I sadly found out....it took me every galactagogue in the book and 2 months of time to get up to where we were solely on breastmilk on that schedule. (Well...I admit, when they say 'at least every 3 hours'...I did stretch that sometimes just because I was so darn tired, or I wanted to do something that took more than an hour outside my house...) Oh happy day when I had 12 ounces of milk IN MY FREEZER....

Then I got food poisoining, and from that incident out (horrible dehydration), I never produced quite enough again. Sometimes he could go a day without formula, never 2...plus somewhere in there my pump broke and I couldn't pump for something like 13 hours...it was BAD....

Finally, at 6 months old, I decided my child needed a mommy who wasn't so hung up on this, who could just relax and be his mom, just snuggle with him and put him to bed and play....coincided with the point in his development where he really started to want ME...I couldn't just have Grandma do things for him while I pumped, he wanted ME...so ME he got. And for the most part, I really don't regret that decision. It was what had to happen at that time.

And now....ZZ is going to be a BIG BROTHER!!!!!!!! I learned a TON with him, but I'm scared that still somehow, it won't be enough...that even though I'm almost 100% certain ZZ's problems are entirely hospital and information related, there's still that tiny little doubt-thought that I just might be wrong about that......that scares me.
I'm doing everything I can to make that NOT happen...I have more breastfeeding friends now than I did then who could help. I go to LLL, which I didn't get to a meeting till Z was a month old and strongly refusing any attempt to latch on. I go to a birth group, I have a midwife who I'm sure will help, and I'll be delivering at the other hospital, the one with a better BF rep. (which I didn't know then.)

And on that subject, I would dearly LOVE to just get a big tub and homebirth but I won't go unassisted and it's illegal to get help in this state, so I'm doing the best I can with what I've got. (DH and I have discussed it, he would even be 100% pro-homebirth if my midwife could legally come and do it. Birth is about doing what you're comfortable with, and neither of us are comfortable going unassisted.)

Anyway...I'm just praying at this point that things will go better this time...and I've learned a *lot* in the past 19 months....

[vibrant writer]

:( hello, i cried in my heart in reading the first story of this thread, your struggles are so heartbreaking and i felt like i could relate so much to the emotion because of what i have gone through.

today my dd (kid #2) is 2 and 1/2 mo old and this morning i feel especially down and sad.

here's what has happened so far:

my DS was born 11 days overdue in a good natural childbirth in a hospital (no BC around here) and 11 hours after birth he was put into the NICU becuase had no nostril hole in his right side, babies are only nosebreathers so this can be life threatening. to have your first born in the NICU was heartbreaking and i cried so much when i coudn't bring him home until the 11th day. he had a bit of difficulty in latching on but with a nipple shield and patience he gained enough weight in NICU from me to actually leave(i felt so good that becuase of our bf he could leave) and at one month old he no longer needed the sheidl and was an enthusiastic drinker until i had to wean him when preganant with DD which was 2 weeks shy of his 1yr bday. one of the reasons though it was emotional first having him home is that days after birth he was labeled with a syndrome with one of the synmptoms being a moderate conductivehearing loss. i grieved deeply for that,especially a couple of months before getting pregnant with DD. when i did get pregnant we knew ythat they wouuld be 18 mo apart. becuase of the rarity of his syndrome we were given to understand that our next child would probably be "normal" at least medically.

i was thrilled and excited when she was born(i was hoping for a daughter) and it was a spontaenous water birth, but min, not hours after birth she was placed in the same NICU for missing both nostril holes -similar our DS. this was even more emotionally devestating than the first time since we were expecting it coudn't happen again. also and even harder,was that i could nurse our DS prior and post his surgery which gave him nose holes( and this was a one time surgery). for her, she had a breathing tube so no attempt at nursing until10 days old, little nursing prior andpost surgery. AND what we didn't know and now know then is that she isn't as laid back as our DS and didn't let me work with her, had to fight, wiggle her head and seemed emotio0nally to not want to try, only would latch on whensleeping and unaware of me trying. so devestating for her to come home on bottles even though great joy at her arriving home.now being SAHM is good but tougher with a 18 mo old who no longer easily wears headband with hrg aidbut takes it off (needs to wear it for his speech to develop and if he wears good chance he can become a hearing child) he is also testing other boundaries as well and on top of that, i need to pump and bottle her and handle my grieving over the bf issues.

at first i was numb, then i began to still want to, and after working through to a point of if i have to bottle her,i am still a good mom who will cuddle her and etc, and she will be ok, i began towant to try just to try -nopressure of how it is good for her because that would be too much for me. this past father's day, my emotional dam broke and i was depressed adn disheartened beyond beliefe, i felt hopeless, alone in my unique situation and struggled with why would god alllow this when i want to natural parent her and not everyone does.

the next monday, i got in itouch with LLL and felt the first relief and hope when i had an hour long conversation with a leader,tried something she saidandit seemedto work. but the next day was bad again, went to a LLL meeting and felt uplifted by support in room adn compassion. even got a phone#and called it later that week when i felt sad. it helped but still nobetter on BF front. eventually called # of a LC recommmended by friend from LLL, felt happy and much hope after first appt, plus other LLpeople had called to see how i was doing, felt given to and also found this forum and had a couple of replies.

but now it is a couple days until the LC comes,i have posted and hoped forhelp and support and so far no oneresponded to other posts and in mean time, i was asked to give bf a rest for a bit and do the SNS on her but on my finger so she can suck and get used to skin in her mouth feel.

a couple of times it is ok, but mostly discouraging. she wiggles around, i never know if the flow is right, she seems not to relax into it and just enjoy it and several times protests so much i need to go to bottle to meet her emotional need and mine. i am very sad and discouraged as if she can't do that - we can't try the SNS on my breast becuase she is more reactive there already.

anyways, if anybody is out there - i could use a few hugs and words of hope or comfort. thanks for listening to me. hope everyone else has good day for themselves -

- a heartsick mom who is married to a passionate pirate and who loves her beautiful children.

[arlecchina]

anyways, if anybody is out there - i could use a few hugs and words of hope or comfort. thanks for listening to me. hope everyone else has good day for themselves -

- a heartsick mom who is married to a passionate pirate and who loves her beautiful children.

I can't advise, I havent had these issues but :Hug :Hug :Hug

you are a wonderful mother. I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles.

[bdavis337]

Hi Tifanny! :wave

I really, really hope I'm more successful with my BFAR attempts with this little one. Sadly, I just found out that my insurance refuses to cover LC visits, so I'm now completely without LC support after I leave the hospital. My ped did say if I called his office that she'd talk with me on the phone a few times and not charge for it, which is nice to know. But truly, without her help I'd never have made it to 4 weeks with Mark, so I have no idea at this point how I'll even figure out if I'm using the sns properly. And I did meet a woman recently who encouraged me to join the LLL we have locally, and while I'd LOVE to participate, she says they don't currently have anyone with bfar experience, or who uses a supplementer. :( So I feel quite suddenly totally alone again in this area. I've also lost the double electric pump my friend was going to loan me, as she's decided to continue pumping until Sept or longer, so if I want to pump to help keep my supply up, I'll have to buy one.

Feels like the deck is stacked against me, that's for sure.

Did you have an IBCLC meeting this week? How'd it go?

[SleepyMamaBear]

i did. and it went great. she is encouraging me to take lecithin for my "clogged up" side (the colostrum i express from there is like toothpaste instead of liquid!!!) and to start Goats Rue soon, as it can help finish building tissue, etc and prepare the breasts for nursing.
she felt me up :lol and said everything looks great. the ability to express ANY colostrum is a fabulous sign.
that we will go by the number of days old = number of wets in a day, and watch how long it takes for the meconium to clear out, and then at a few days old we will talk about if i need to use any herbals or Rx meds and the Lact-Aid.
your insurance doesnt cover ANY lactation consultant visits at all?? NONE?! thats so rediculous and i would fight that if i were you.
also, some WICs will loan you a pump if you ask. get thee to WIC!
and just because the other LLL women havent had to use a supplimenter or havent been BFAR doesnt mean they arent still a GREAT resource for information as well as support.
if anything, maybe one of them has a pump you can have/borrow.
please please please do NOT let yourself get down.
You ARE going to nurse your baby.
you ARE going to provide nutrition to your baby from your breasts.
you CAN do this mama.
you definitely need a better support system in place.
have you written a post in the local Finding Your Tribe area?

[serendipityb]

I was incredibly determined to breastfeed when my daughter was born. Despite cracked and bleeding nipples (still have a scar) I perservered. But once I went back to work after my partner lost his job, my milk supply simply dried up. I used a pump for months. I ate tons of oatmeal, took Blessed Thistle and Fenugreek - you name it. But by May, I was down to 1/2oz per breast at each pumping session.

[bdavis337]

I have a few moms in my circle who are currently bf'ing their babies, I was hoping to use them instead of the LLL group, b/c I just suck at getting out and attending meetings, etc. There is NO WAY IN HELL my insurance company will cover anyone but my ob or my pedi, they flatly refuse and I cannot do anything about it, belive me I'm still fighting for the two times I had to see an NP early on during this pregnancy and even though the NP's bill under the covered dr's name, Aetna won't cover the visits. But, I digress.....

I DO need a better support system. I find myself thinking about bottles and formula and how much I should need each week......I really want to focus on nursing instead!

[GooeyRN]

I am joining in here. My dd would not latch no matter what. Not even a bad latch. Nothing. And I had a FABULOUS milk supply. I was so sad for so long. I EP'ed for her for 18 months. (my milk then dried up due to pregnancy) It was the best I could do. I hated that pump. I was constantly torn up and blistered. I had mastitis several times. I still have a lot of scar tissue. I lost part of my left nipple thanks to that stupid pump. (it became necrotic) I still have lots of ebm left over and I give her some every day. Even though I know she got/gets my milk, it still hurts knowing that I could not bf her from the tap. I am finally starting to get over my loss of bfing from the tap. I can't believe I am still upset over it almost 2 years later.

[katheek77]

Long story short:
Great latch at hospital, nursed on demand, blah blah blah.
Baby lost 10% by the time we left the hospital, lost more in the next couple days...spent days 5 and 6 screaming non stop with hunger. Finally gave her some formula...she slept for the first time in two days.
I'm pretty sure I have tubular breasts from the research I've done. I did everything "right"; , pumping after nursing, during nursing, etc, oatmeal, fenugreek, etc. You name it, I tried it, but I just couldn't produce enough for her.
Anyway, she's 12+ months old, and I'm still pumping away. She's healthy as a horse (she's only been sick once), way ahead on physical milestones, completely bonded to me and DH (she has NEVER had a propped bottle, and won't even hold her own, so one of us is holding her whenever she drinks), etc.
I hate this pump. I really do. We call it the "nipple torture device" around here. I'm weaning myself, but it's a slooooooow process. I had full-blown mastitis once and plugged ducts a couple of other times, so, I don't want to have that happen again. She's gotten some MM every day for a year, which is more than 86%of babies in this country, and we did it the HARD way. :lol
Good luck to you, and please don't beat yourself up over the past. You made the best choices you could for you and your daughter with the information you had. Beating ourselves up isn't going to change a thing in the end. Our children are happy and thriving, and THAT'S what matters at the end of the day.
Kathee
PS.. this IS the short version. Really!!! :p

[vibrant writer]

hi,

things feel better. probably due to amazing love of dh and total support of my mother who unfortunately lives in MN- 6 hrs drive away.

thanks to all who offered words of comfort - it just feels better to have people that know what i go through even if not all parts of my situation are relatable.

currently i am also happier since finally the wrap came (moby) and i am so excited - it totally works - for the first time i don't feel like i am igonring my ds or my dd - i can wear her and still give him his milk or food in his highchair who currently i s wearing his strawberries after he delights in squishing them between fingers ( i guess i missed the memo that today is tactile day=)

i also feel better since i talked to my lc on friday about my frustrations of tube feeding because not only is it not working and that caused me to fear i will never get her to breast but i felt upset that the feeding time (normally a bonding time even with bottle ) wasn't with the tube feeding for either of us.

it was relieving to hear the lc state that its ok to take a break from tube feeding and just bond over bottle feeding, babywearing, skin to skin adn keeping up my supply with some fenugreek adn power pumping. i really enjoy doing all that for her and also iknow i can love my ds better too - especially with his speical needs of the hearing loss.

also teh lc encoraged me to know that even if tube feeding doesn't work - it is still possible (though i think less likely) that she might go to breast.

whatever happens - i really have joy that i can bond with her and in the end i know i did my best and am going longer than most in my situation (a kind compassionate ll pointed that out to me)

i am being paged by dear son,

hope all is well for everyone else


i love my moby wrap =)

take care :wink

[sarahandlily]

thanks mama's! i have a lack of glandular tissue and am unable to bf. i am pregnant with #3 now and am researching lact-aid and SNS. i feel like no one has tried harder to bf than me - even to the point of unknowingly starving my dd for 6 weeks. i think it is totally false and harsh for folks to think that anyone can bf. breast is NOT always best or my kids would have died! however, i have been mourning the loss of a bf relationship for 5 years, it does not get easier but it is a comfort to know i am not the only one. of course the most important thing is that my kids are vibrant, strong, and amazing. hugs to all you mama's!

sarah

[SleepyMamaBear]

Sarah, you might want to look into goats rue.
it can be taken during pregnancy, and is actually really encouraged for breast tissue growth and development. it helps.

[MamaBear1976]

Reading these entries, I feel like I have come home. I have had so many similar problems. I'm going to blog about them soon, so I'll let you ladies know when I do.

In the meantime, (((((BIG HUGS))))) to all of you for your valiant efforts!!

[timneh_mom]

Just wanted to say, I'm a LLL leader and you are all one group of brave, loving and courageous mamas. I'm really glad you started this thread. I think what people don't realize about this is that there is such a period of grief... and you need time and support to work through it. :hug to all of you! :love

[bdavis337]

jeffrey is here! and he can't figure out how to latch. he's just nibbling on me, and i'mm doing breast compressions to at least get milk in his mouth. very lazy, isn't interested in sucking on my fnger, a paci or my nipple. i need him to eat, b/c he had lots of bruising during delivery and the jaundice issue is already being vandied about!

[bumblebeej]

Sarah, you might want to look into goats rue.
it can be taken during pregnancy, and is actually really encouraged for breast tissue growth and development. it helps.


You can take Alfalfa too. I'm 19 weeks pg and have been taking it since 9 weeks. I have the dreadful IGT as well.

[bumblebeej]

This is probably old news to most of you, but I just found it recently and thought I would share....


http://www.sonic.net/~mollyf/igt/

[SleepyMamaBear]

Bethany! welcome baby Jeffrey! how old is he now? he might just need some time. can you get him some craniosacral therapy? that might help ALOT.
just keep putting him to breast mama.

[MamaBear1976]

This is probably old news to most of you, but I just found it recently and thought I would share....


http://www.sonic.net/~mollyf/igt/

Thanks for the link, bumblebeej!

[tropicaldutchtulip]

Hello,

I'm new here and saw this thread and thought I would post. I don't have much time to go into my story right now, but I also "bottlenurse" my girls with donor breast milk. They aren't able to take in any formula and I can't lactate due to my health. I have missed that "type" relationship with them so much! I used the lact-aid system at first with them until I had to stop.

How does everyone go about finding donor breast milk for their wee ones? I had a friend of mine that was pumping for us, but she has now moved out of the country.

[SleepyMamaBear]

milkshare
its a yahoo group.

[bdavis337]

Woot! I got some REGLAN the other night at the ER (long story, high bp related visit to the hospital yesterday) via IV and within 2 hours my milk came in like a flood. Tiffany, it was RUNNING DOWN MY SHIRT! Only on one side, but then today after a few bf sessions, Jeffrey has had a ginormous bm poop and he's lasted nearly 90 minutes between sessions. He at at 9, it's almost 11 right now and my nipples are tingly and actually sore, perhaps that my version of a letdown? My gosh this just might work for a while...........

We have been supp'ing with formula, just an ounce here and there and only after a nursing session if he's still fussy and rooting and he's been sucking for more than 40 minutes or so. Been using a large syringe to do that.

[MamaBear1976]

Woot! I got some REGLAN the other night at the ER (long story, high bp related visit to the hospital yesterday) via IV and within 2 hours my milk came in like a flood. Tiffany, it was RUNNING DOWN MY SHIRT! Only on one side, but then today after a few bf sessions, Jeffrey has had a ginormous bm poop and he's lasted nearly 90 minutes between sessions. He at at 9, it's almost 11 right now and my nipples are tingly and actually sore, perhaps that my version of a letdown? My gosh this just might work for a while...........

We have been supp'ing with formula, just an ounce here and there and only after a nursing session if he's still fussy and rooting and he's been sucking for more than 40 minutes or so. Been using a large syringe to do that.

That's great you have a lot of milk now. Wow, IV Reglan, directly in the vein. I wonder how I can score some of that. J/K!! Seriously, though, I'll bet the lactogenic effects were immediate.

ETA: Congratulations on your beautiful baby!! :)

[bumblebeej]

Wonderful news!

[bdavis337]

AND, I just found a FREE bf'ing clinic at the other hospital in town. THey have an IBCLC on staff, it's walk-in and I can use it any day m-f. I'm so psyched it's practically sick. I'[ve been hand-expressing after he eats, and I get about 1/4 oz, which I put into a syringe for him. He's getting about 4 oz formula throughout the day as well, but that's way less than I expected. And he's not overly sleepy to signal a lack of enough to eat.

[bdavis337]

That's great you have a lot of milk now. Wow, IV Reglan, directly in the vein. I wonder how I can score some of that. J/K!! Seriously, though, I'll bet the lactogenic effects were immediate.

ETA: Congratulations on your beautiful baby!! :)

I know! And the funny thing is, I was so upset and frustrated last night I didn't even put it all together - I knew it was Reglan, I thought "hmmm, Reglan, better look that up and make sure it's ok to bf...". :lol When I started leaking I cried like a baby, saying "if they admit me for eclampsia this will all be for nothing and I'll never get to try to nurse him....". Silly me. They pushed a huge syringe of a lactogenic drug directly into my veins!

[SleepyMamaBear]

WAHOOO!OOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
oh Bethany i am seriously crying huge tears of joy for you over here!!!!
thats SO wonderful! oh mama! :D:D:D:D:D
way to go lady!
eat up big boy all that mama milk is going to get you super chubs!

[bdavis337]

So far today's been pretty good, lactationally speaking. :) He's ben eating every 90 minutes or 2 hours. It's kind of tiring really, takes him nearly 45 minutes and I have to switch sides several times b/c he stops sucking or falls asleep. He also only sucks when I'm doing breast compressions, so my boobs are really, incredibly sore. His latch is a little funny, he sucks his lower lip in and almost gums me with his lower jaw, so we're going to visit an IBCLC next week for some assistance, and a weight check.

All this is great, but it's not realistic for me to be able to spend 45 minutes every 90 minutes sitting and feeding him once Tom goes back to work next week (with two other children around, ages 6 and 2, I can't figure out how that will work). But he's at least getting enough that I only had to supp once today with formula, and I'm not really certain he even needed that ounce. I know he won't need to eat this often as he gets a bit older, but it's really going to be a challenge to do this right now. I hope I can manage it!

[bumblebeej]

Hi, I just wanted to check in with everyone. I'm 21 weeks pg and have a lil bit of colostrum if I squeeze! :loveeyes:

How is everyone else doing?

[SleepyMamaBear]

nursing for 11 days now!
using the lact-aid for the supplimenting.
she is taking 15or so oz a day of donor milkies.
she LOVES to nurse.
our nursing routine is nurse on both sides first, then nurse with the lact-aid on both sides, then nurse both sides again bare. we are nursing for HOURS on end. which is ok, cause she needs the milkies and i have a sling or two and can sling and nurse at the same time. in fact i am NAKing right now :D
i am taking an herbal tincture with fennugreek, goats rue, and blessed thistle as well as some other herbs. drinking tons of water and eating an oat based meal once a day (oatmeal or oat cereal)
i am getting some Domperidone soon too. hopefully with the dpd i will be able to drop her suppliment down.
and in 24 hours she gained 4 oz!!!!

[bdavis337]

WOW, Tiffany, that's fantastic!!! Have you done a before/after at all? I'm working with the breastfeeding clinic in my community, and I love them. Last week, MT was getting about .5 oz from me at each feed, and he wasn't gaining weight, so I've upped my supplements and started taking blessed thistle, fenugreek and alfalfa and I can tell my supply is up for sure. He's still taking 3 oz in supp every feeding, and goes 3 hours between eating, probably b/c of the formula.

I can't wait to hear more from you, and how Niamh is doing! MT does LOVE to nurse as well, and for the past few days it's the only way he'll fall asleep anymore!

[SleepyMamaBear]

we arent doing before and after weights. just one weight check a day before the first feeding of the day.
she is just nursing as long as she wants af often as she wants.
which is most of the time :D
BFARing is hard work! but SO worth it :)

[bluegrassgirl]

I know what you all mean about hospital nurses. When I had Emma, the nurses at the local hospital were rather snobby and insistent that "one bottle won't hurt her" and "you really need your rest". I think they got sick of me complaining to them that this was not their kid and they weren't gonna raise her here, that they finally left me alone. But, the last day I was in the hospital, I took all of the formula stuff out of that diaper bag thing they give you, and the early morning nurse didn't think a thing of it. She just picked up all the stuff and walked out of the room with it.
I did buy one of those feeding spoons just for feeding expressed milk or formula, and my girls liked this better than a bottle when I was at college pumping. Another thing you guys might try for formula is that Adiri Breastbottle Nurser. I have read several good things about this nurser and how it helps develop the jaw muscles like breastfeeding does and stuff like that.

If I had another baby and had to formula feed them (like if I was on a medicine that wasn't adaptable with breastfeeding or something like that), I'd use that organic formula I see on the store shelves or goats milk formula, so it wouldn't cause as much problems with digestion as cows milk formula does.

Jessie
(single mommy to Emma, 3 years and Angela, 2 years)
:goorg: :learning: :flyby2 :slinggirl :cd: :fambeds2 :rocks

[Da WIC Lady]

Fyrestorm,:hug s for you too mama.
its a tough road, not being able to give our children what they need to survive, having to settle for second(or really fourth) best with formula.


I remember seeing that on a WHO page and have been kicking myself for not bookmarking it. Do you have a link to the source?

Anna

[bumblebeej]

Great job Tiffany!

[SleepyMamaBear]

thanks :D two months going strong!
she is relly a porker boobybaby :D

[bdavis337]

Congrats on your 2 month anniversary, Tiffany! :balloons

J is slowly working his way away from my breasts, and I knew this would happen, but I'm more disappointed than I thought I'd be this time around. He's nearly 10 weeks old, I'm soooo happy for how much breastmilk and booby time he's had. I was hoping to make it to 3 months, and he's still nursing during his evening fussy times, and first thing in the morning, but during the day he doesn't want anything to do with them. I'm so happy we've come this far, and I hope you're able to go as far as you and Niamh can go together!

[DoomaYula]

Hi all, I'm another BFAR mom, but I had a terrible experience with dd -- not her fault --

She was born at a hospital, she was fine and perfect and I bf'ed her just fine for 3w with the help of domperidone. One day I woke up in PAIN. I knew something was wrong, so I went to the hospital. It was my gallbladder. I told the doc I was nursing and would NOT stop nursing, so he gave me painkillers that were acceptable and I had the surgery and was back home and nursing in 24h.

Then I developed post-op complications.

I had more pain, a fever, and went back to the hospital. It was an infection that they could not get under control. I wanted dd with me so I could nurse her but the hospital told me that I couldn't have a 3w old infant there because there were too many sick people in the hospital (wtf?!?!? she can be BORN in a hospital but she can't stay with me in one?!?!?) I was alone in the hospital for over a week.

I didn't know anyone who bf'ed, was fairly new to the area, and didn't have any connections. The docs and nurses suggested I dry up.

I caved, and I dried up.

I cried and cried and cried. I did my best to bottle-feed with love and care and cuddles, but even so, I totally mourn our bf'ing relationship. It's been over 2y and it's still the biggest regret of my LIFE. :( I honestly feel like dd missed so much!

I'm pregnant and due next week, planning a homebirth. I'm also a doula now, and very active with LLL and also on the BFAR boards, so I WILL bf this baby. I have a ton of dom. I have the support of my dh and my fam. My bff is still bfing her 18mos ds, and she's told me that if ANYTHING happens where I'm separated from my baby and can't bf for some reason, she'll nurse my baby or at least provide donor milk until I can bf. I also have a client who has offered donor milk.