Exclusive Pumpers Tribe

[mama-a-llama]

It looks like we could use a tribe for ep'ers. I'm on a group for ep'ers, but there's a more mainstream slant there.
A little intro. . . my son was nursing fine until about 2 weeks old, then started sometimes refusing to nurse, or popping on and off. He didn't gain weight between 2 and 4 weeks, our former dr was a jerk about it, and we found another who sent us by ambulance to Children's Hospital where we found out he had a heart defect. After surgery for that, he developed reflux. In the following weeks, he just wasn't nursing enough to gain weight, so ended up with a feeding tube. That was the end of December, and I've been ep'ing ever since.
Looking forward to hearing your stories and supporting each other.

[mom2ken1cam2]

:clap :Thanks
I have been looking for a thread like this...still new to this forum stuff and not real sure about what I'm doing...but I just saw this and it's what I've needed. I've posted "my story" before but here's an overview! I had ds2 9 weeks ago and he's never really been great at nursing. They called him a sleepy baby in the hospital and once we got home I realized just how sleepy he was. It took hrs. to wake him for a feeding and as soon as we got him to wake up he'd fall asleep on the breast UGH! He dehydrated twice (2 IVs in the head) and that's when we knew we had to offer the bottle (we were syringe feeding). I had a low supply so we were supplementing with formula. It seems like it was a downhill spiral. He slowly stopped wanting to nurse which breaks my heart. I am still pumping after nine weeks and it is literally a one-feeding-at a time kind of thing. If I think any further than that I'll go CRAZY!!! Can I get some feedback on what kind of pumps you are all using??? Thanks for the support...us EPers need all we can get...it's exhausting!!!

[peaceful_mama]

I EP'ed for 6 months. I stopped because well, it's a hard, long, frustrating job and with being a working mom and an AP mama, well, that was when I got to the point I felt he needed more time with ME...that was when he really started getting 'particular' about who he wanted.

I know what you mean about the mainstream slant on the AP groups. That's the reason I PM'ed Cynthia a couple of times and basically begged for something to show up here for us. My last straw with it was when I expressed some frustration over how to handle it when you need to pump but your babe needs you too and I was given suggestions ranging from letting my child CIO in an exersaucer or something in the room with me to putting him in a separate room in a crib with toys...all with the gist of "he needs to learn that you need to pump"
I'm sorry, that's not the relationship I wanted with my child. I already went through enough not being able to nurse him, I wasn't about to also sacrifice my stance on CIO. To me, the whole point of breastfeeding being central to AP is the close relationship that goes on between the mother and the nursing child. (yes, of course, the milk is superior, but there's also the relationship. The comfort.) When challenges arise, unfortunately, I found at least, you start a balancing act between the importance of mother's milk and the importance of your attached relationship to your child--being able to respond to him when he needs YOU, the time you spend in physical contact with your child.
For me, I reached the end of being able to balance at 6 months....

[mama-a-llama]

Can I get some feedback on what kind of pumps you are all using???
I'm using a Medela Lactina select. It's the pump I got from my local LC before we knew why ds wasn't eating well, and needed to rebuild/maintain my supply. When at Children's, I was using a Medela Symphony. Man I hated that thing--I could never get the suction even on both sides, and I hadn't figured out how to be hands free yet. So I would be in the pump room in the middle of the night, trying to fiddle with the tubing while holding both flanges on--not fun at all. I ended up bringing my rented pump from home.

Later, as we've been back for outpatient stuff, I sometimes use a different pump room. That Symphony is fine. In fact, I like it much better than the Lactina. I had to use the other room again recently, and that pump is even worse now. So I sort of want to switch my rental, but I'm nervous because it seems like each individual pump can have its own problems. The Symphony is finicky about how you set it up, I think, but works better when done right, while the Lactina is more consistent and "foolproof".

Thanks for the support...us EPers need all we can get...it's exhausting!!!
I'd been contemplating starting a thread like this for a while, but didn't think there would be much participation. Then zakers_mama's thread took off, and I thought we really did need support here.
I should go back to bed now. I turned off the pump 10 min ago, but wanted to finish my reply.

[earthcore]

I EP'd for 16 mos. for my DD. i used a hospital grade pump for the first 12 mos. Then it died. I used an Ameda Purely Yours after that.

You go mamas! EPing is one of the most difficult things I ever done, but sooooo worth it!

[clovergirl]

just wanted to give a shout out as a former EP'er... 15mo with my first DD. i used a medela lactina for 4mo and then bought a pump-in-style (when i finally realized nursing was not in our cards). i was a very lucky EP'er in that i never had to supplement. it was really exhausting, but i'd do it again in a heartbeat.
i also wanted to give you mamas who are on kiddo number one hope for the future if you are planning on having more kids- although we had another very rocky start with DD#2, she's now 2yrs old and still nursing. :thumb

[sehbub]

I having only been EPing for 6 weeks now, but am also dealing with supply issues on top of that, and don't see any end in sight as far as my DD (a 30 week preemie...now 6 weeks old) being able to nurse any time soon. It is exhausting, and I was using a hand pump up until a week ago, which probably was the root of many of my self-doubt and frustration problems. I'm now using Medela Lactina Select, and while I still see my pump more than I see my husband, it has made life easier. I am almost pumping enough to feed my DD (2 oz per feeding) and hopefully will be able to increase my supply as time goes on. It is exhausting, and defeating, and all I want to do is feed my babe the way nature intended. Unfortunately, that's not in the cards for us at the moment. We weren't designed real well for each other. I've got large, flat nipples, and she has a teeny tiny mouth. Fingers are crossed that I won't be participating in this thread for much longer. Not that there isn't a wonderful group of women here, of course. :wink

[melbb]

I EP. DD is 6 months old. She didn't BF at birth. She wanted to thrust everything out of her mouth, and she had jaundice, so she was sleepy and her suck was weak. She started BFing at 3 weeks, only to refuse after 3 weeks. I pumped for 2 weeks and then got her BFing again using a nipple shield. That lasted 2 months, when my supply plunged (long story). I have gotten my supply back up, but she only screams at my breast. I only pump about 26 oz/day, so I have to supplement. I have tried domperidone, herbs, lactogenic food, etc. Nothing has increased my supply further. I was using a PIS, but just rented a Symphony to see if I can increase my supply. If it doesn't, I am thankful for the break the Symphony is giving me. It is much gentler than the PIS.

[orangecanoe]

My youngest dd has severe reflux and started showing an aversion to nursing/eating around 4-5 wks of age. Her intake was suffering and an LC advised that I should rent a pump and offer/force feed her bottles if need be. Unfortunately, two of the prophylactic antibiotics we had to try for her kidney reflux gave her really bad nausea/diarrhea/vomiting and that seemed to kill her appetite and I could no longer get her to nurse at night, which was all we had left. :(

It's been a couple weeks now and I'm still trying to get the most efficient pumping schedule/routine in place. I had rented an Ameda Egnell Elite and that has worked well, but the LC thought I would do okay with the Purely Yours so I'm using both til the rental is up. My toddler is still nursing so it's a little tricky at times to keep track of pumping and how many oz. I've gotten for the day and when she usually nurses.

Some days it feels like all I ever do is pump, wash stuff and bottle feed so I guess I'm still trying to find some balance. Since my supply is adequate, what helps me is to pump at breakfast and then not again til around noon so I have that window to play with the girls or get out of the house w/o worrying about pumping. So far so good.

[Swirly]

I am delighted to see this thread. I have a 14 week old daughter and have been pumping since the beginning. She4 is upset now, so I gotta go, but will be back with our story when able.

[GooeyRN]

I am an EPer. DD (now 7.5 months old) had some issues at birth and could not nurse properly until 2 months, and then refused the breast after 3 months. I use a Medela Lactina Select. I pump hands free. I have a huge oversupply. (about 75 ounces a day, its both a blessing and a curse) I purchased my third deep freezer about 3 weeks ago.

Its been a difficult road so far. DD is a high needs baby, who wants to be constantly held. And she hated slings and carriers. It *had* to be my arms. Or she would scream like she was in a horror movie. It was rough in the begining, since dd could not tolerate being put down for even a second. So I mostly pumped while she napped. (Which meant no sleep for me and no housework getting done for quite some time) I also learned to pump hands free. I was then able to lay her on my lap while I pumped. Never to this day have I let her cry while I pumped.

As she got older (after 4 months) She was able to tolerate being put down for short intervals. This made pumping much easier, since she does not nap more than 1/2 hour a day now. I sit indian style in the middle of the floor, with her exersaucer, bouncer chair, swing, and a play matt and mobile in a circle around me. I also keep a basket of toys next to me. When she gets bored in the exersaucer (about 5 minutes) I move her around the cirlce. Pumping hands free is great, since I can play and pump at the same time. She still loves to be held, so I hold her at all times while not pumping. She seems to be happy with this arrangement, so I am as well.

A tip for other EPers... You can do almost anything while you pump! I can pump and drive, pump while I cook dinner and clean the house and do laundry! (dh is home then so he holds her) This can even be done with my huge Lactina pump! Put it in a backpack zipped up with just the cord and tubing out. Put on the backpack. Attach the cord to a very long extension cord and plug it in. Pump hands free. I know it sounds crazy, but it works! (I am too cheap to spend the $200 on the battery pack) I also pump during the night. I sleep while I pump! I sit propped up with pillows in bed and pump hands free. I set a cooking timer for 20 minutes. When it dings, Im done! I keep a mini fridge in my bedroom so I don't have to run the milk downstairs. Keep several sets of horns up there so you don't have to constantly wash them. Or I just reuse the same set all night, by storing them in the refridgerator between usings.

As you can tell, I got good at this pumping stuff. Sure I have other problems (very sore nipples, thrush, NO free time for myself unless I pump while on the computer like now, frequent engorgement, etc) but My dd is happy, and she is getting my milk! Even if I quit now at 7.5 months, she would have enough of my milk to last her to over a year old. So even if breastfeeding the traditional way does not work out.... There is another way to get your baby your milk! It is so much work, but so worth it!

Some family and friends of mine think I'm nuts, but I am doing everything I can for my baby. She is so healthy, never had any illness. I am so glad that I didn't give up.

All of you EPers out there are great mommy's for going the extra 10 miles to give your babies the best! Keep it up!

[MaryJaneLouise]

All I can say is :twothumbs WOW to you full time EPers! I pump part time WOHM, and it is a pain in the @ss! Keep up the good work.

[sehbub]

Wow, GooeyRN.

I've only been EPing for about 7 weeks now. How do you pump hands free with the Lactina Select? I think I'm missing something. Every time I pump I sit at my desk and lean against the edge of the desk to hold the horns on. LOL. My DH laughs at me, but at least that way I have my hands free and can catch up on e-mail/pay bills/hold our baby (she's under 6 pounds) etc.

So hands free? How's that work?

[MaryJaneLouise]

Here's the rubber band trick for hands free pumping:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/hands-free-pumping.html

There are also special bras you can buy, or you can take an old one and cut out circle where your nips are. Stick the horns in from the inside, then attach the rest to the outside.

[GooeyRN]

Here's the rubber band trick for hands free pumping:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/hands-free-pumping.html

There are also special bras you can buy, or you can take an old one and cut out circle where your nips are. Stick the horns in from the inside, then attach the rest to the outside.

The hair band method is the fastest to set up, so I use that at home. But cutting a one inch slit in a sports bra keeps things the most stable for driving. You can turn your whole body to merge and things dont pop off. The only prob. w/ that is your nipples then stick through the holes. But nursing pads solve that problem.

[sehbub]

Fantastic! Thanks!

[mimid]

I wa trying to come to terms with the idea of not being able to bf my girls, but it never sat well with me. Perhaps this is the way to go? My story:

At 33w 5d I had an e-c/s and brought my 3 beautiful babes into the world. 2 were in the NICU just to grow and learn to suck and the third had respritory problems, too. I had a baaaad reaction to the Duomorph and was so doped up from the mag, benadryl and the morph that I didn't start pumping until 2 days later. (DH wasn't able to be at the hospital as often as he would have liked and even though I said I wanted to bf, the nursing staff was pretty much unsupportive of anything but pumping for triplets.) I was still pretty loopy and my 2 hour pumping schedule was often messed up. I ended up getting 20cc per breast ever 2 hours by the time the girls came home at 2 weeks.

I was trying to bf and supplement but had little help here with the girls so when 2 or 3 are screaming Ijust used a bottle. I did buy a SNS and some Dom and still have my hospital pump rental, but it seems like there is never enought time to feed 3 girls bottles, bf one girl and pump plus all the other things I need to do around here. I was thinking of waiting until the summer when I will have a mother's helper and then trying to relactate (I'm still getting some milk and the girls pften like to suckle and use me as a human pacifier.) But now I'm thinking exclusively pumping might be more doable.

I'm glad this thread is here!

[BakerALM]

Hey all,

New to mothering.com but have been EPing for 17weeks. The week after my little girl was born was a breastfeeding nightmare! Things started out painful (as I expected) and then became toe curling stinging burning pain! My nipples were bright purple and so swolen my little girl could bairly fit them in her mouth. After about 6 LC said everything was fine I went totally crazy. :dizzy: I could not belive that this was normal or ok. I finally figgured it out on my own and found a more experenced LC. My daugher was born biting. Every time she sucked she would clamp down and run her lower jaw up the side of the nipple hard. From the outside if you dont look carefully it is hard to tell anything is wrong.

We tried to break her of this but it is engraned in her, she cant even hold a passifier in her mouth because she does not suck on it properly. Also her temperment is Hyper & Stubborn!:lol We had the LC sweating by the end of every session since my girl would just either scream bloody murder if you toutched her face to make a correction or just clampdown harder in protest.

This has been an extremly hard road! I have been though 6 pumps; 2 manual, 1 consumer electric and 3 hospital grade. Each time I switched I noticed an increase in supply. I am currenly still climbing and hoping to beable to feed her fully on BM someday.

Also I am in the middle of being diagnosed for thrush and or Reynaud's which I have had from the begnining. It is hard to tell the difference between the two since the symptoms are so similar.

I just joined a yahoo group exclusivly for EPers I would definatly recommend it ! :thumb
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPers/

So glad to find more of you! We need all the support we can get

[MaryJaneLouise]

I was thinking of waiting until the summer when I will have a mother's helper and then trying to relactate (I'm still getting some milk and the girls pften like to suckle and use me as a human pacifier.) But now I'm thinking exclusively pumping might be more doable.

I'm glad this thread is here!

Miriam, if I were you I would try to keep up with some direct bf-ing, especially since they like to do it. As they grow and become more demanding, it is a good way to keep them pacified. Plus there are wonderful bonding and oral development pluses to the direct bfing.

One of my guys didn't really "learn" to directly bf until about 3 months old. Now he is a maniac. They learn to nurse by doing, and WILL get better at actually extracting milk.

It is very confusing to balance the pumping, feeding, and direct bfing with multiples. I remember how hard is was with two -- your household has to be a 3 ring (but fun!) circus.

:hug whatever you decide.

Are you able to tandem feed at all? See below for photos etc.

http://www.karengromada.com/photos/index.htm

http://www.karengromada.com/images/photos/dclutch/double_clutch_double_football_2days.jpg

ETA: I hope I didn't offend any of you valiant EPers. I'm not always good with words. I'm just saying that since EPing is SO hard, that she might want to TRY to continue the partial direct BFing. :)

[clovergirl]

BakerALM,
your story sounds very similar to what i went through with my daughters. have you ever heard of craniosacral therapy? here is a link to an article from LLL about how it can be helpful to infants with feeding issues-
http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVAugSep01p82.html
we did not do any CST with Dd#1 as we didn't know about it then, but i credit it with helping DD#2 being able to nurse successfully. she had a very tight jaw and wasn't able to open her mouth wide enough to latch correctly, and once she was on the breast she wouldn't/couldn't move her lower jaw properly. after doing CST and mild chiropractic work on her made a huge difference. i now always recommend it to people having issues like ours, as it truly saved our nursing relationship.

[TurboClaudia]

i was also going to suggest the craniosacral therapy for your little one, BakerALM. many chiropractors are also trained in this technique and you can look at www.icpa4kids.com to locate one in your area that specializes in working with children.

~claudia

[mom2ken1cam2]

Are there any EPers with a low supply also??? I'm at the end of my rope! I felt like there might be some hope when I heard about Domperidone, so I ordered some (it's on the way...I haven't used it yet). The one LC that I have been working with said it works pretty fast so I was really excited about trying it UNTIL the other LC I know printed out all of these warnings against Dom and told me that a low supply wasn't worth my children losing their mother over! She sounded pretty serious about me NOT taking the DOM. I'm SO confused/frustrated/emotional etc. I've been pumping for 10 weeks now and felt like I was getting into a "routine" with it. Now I feel like it's not even worth it to give him only 1/2 of the nutrition he needs! ALSO, I'm thinking I may be battling thrush. I don't know for sure though. The pain is not unbearable, but my nipples are pink are raw feeling (I just thought it was from pumping like crazy with the suction turned all the way up). I have some pains in my breast after pumping but my terrible...could this be thrush? I don't have any way of telling by my babe b/c he hasn't nursed in weeks! :(
Could he have it as well...even if he doesn't nurse??? Just looking for some answers! THANKS!

[MaryJaneLouise]

The one LC that I have been working with said it works pretty fast so I was really excited about trying it UNTIL the other LC I know printed out all of these warnings against Dom and told me that a low supply wasn't worth my children losing their mother over! She sounded pretty serious about me NOT taking the DOM. I'm SO confused/frustrated/emotional etc.

Well, I'm not a health professional, so I can't really tell you what to do.

I would advise you to read as much as you can about the Dom. I've been taking it for at least 6 months now, with no problem, and know many, many other women who are taking it as well.

Have you read up on Kellymom and the BFAR site about this?

http://www.kellymom.com/health/meds/prescript_galactagogue.html
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/19a-domperidone1.html
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/19b-domperidone2.html

http://www.bfar.org/domperidone.shtml

You might print these out and ask if the :nono LC has better information, or why she disagrees with all these assessments.

[mom2ken1cam2]

Thanks for this info. I had seen it all except the BFAR link. GOOD STUFF! Do you think it would be too forward to print and give to LC??

[mama-a-llama]

The pain is not unbearable, but my nipples are pink are raw feeling (I just thought it was from pumping like crazy with the suction turned all the way up).
I don't know about thrush. Are you using olive oil or any other lubrication when you pump? It made a big difference for me.

[mimid]

I have some and took it for a couple of days before realizing that I should wait until I can devote the needed time to regular pumping. I did notice more of a swollen feeling and it lasted a few days after I stopped. Next week we should be getting our help so I can start again and I will definately let you know!

[MaryJaneLouise]

Thanks for this info. I had seen it all except the BFAR link. GOOD STUFF! Do you think it would be too forward to print and give to LC??

No. I think she needs to know all the information out there about this.

Again, this is your choice, with the ASSISTANCE of your health care providers.

I know I resisted taking a drug for this for the longest time, but now I am glad I made this choice.

[loraxc]

:wave from a retired EPer. My DD has a very high "bubble palate" that made nursing excruciatingly painful for me, always. (My nipples are permanently scarred and altered from the trauma.) She also did not transfer milk very well and as a result weight gain was low and all nursing sessions were 20 minutes+. I nursed her at the breast through agony till 6 months because I knew I would not produce enough through EPing and wanted her on 100% breastmilk till then. At 6 months I went to EPing (almost--still occasionally nursed at night or for comfort) and continued to pump till she was 15 months old, when I hung up the horns in exhaustion and pride.

EPing is SO HARD. I want to give all of you a HUGE round of applause. It is kind of like having two babies--one live one and one mechanical one! I hauled that thing everywhere. I can still hear its sound in my head...

I did have to supplement, which crushed me at first, but I had tried everything short of the meds (my husband was v. opposed) and fortunately I never needed to supp more than about 4 oz/day. I just couldn't quite get all the way there. I hated that she got that formula but I had to make peace with it.

:grouphug and :heartbeat to all of you.

[TLC Tugger]

I'm using a Medela Lactina select. We have the kit and interface parts left over from our rental of that model. I can't stand the thought of trashing it. Can't anyone use it? Would it be handy to have spares?

-Ron

[HippieMamaBE]

Joining you all! I've been EP'ing for my DS for ten months now. When he was born he just wouldn't suck, I could get him to latch, if I tried for a long time, but he would never suck...so I started pumping, hoping he would eventually catch on, but he never did. I'm still sad from time to time, well, actually most of the time, that he never nursed, but I'm so glad that I can pump. It is a challenge, and there are times when I just want to stop. But, I keep on going. I'd like to pump for at least another year, or as long as I can.

How many times a day is everyone pumping??? I pump four times a day, every four hours when I am awake. I stopped pumping at night a long time ago, and I pump while driving too....

Also, at this point, I'm wondering if its possible to increase my milk supply? I'll be graduating from nursing school here in a few weeks and will be able to better keep on a supply schedule...thinking of calling my MW for a Reglan script? Any thoughts? Looking forward to this thread!

[sehbub]

I'm pumping at least 8 times a day (every three hours-ish) because DD is only 7 weeks old, and I"m trying to increase my supply, as we have some issues with that, and she's eating more every day!

Actually PAK now, since she just ate.

Ah, sleep would be so wonderful. I've only gotta wait like 10 years before I get to sleep through the night again, right? ;)

[fireant]

Thank you so much for starting this tribe!

I've been pumping with an older version of Medela's PIS since my DD was born 6 weeks ago. She was 6 weeks early and was in the NICU for 3 weeks. I was able to nurse her a little bit in the nicu but never a full feeding so she would be gavaged or bottle fed afterwards.

I've had mastitis twice, low milk supply, and I am currently battling thrush. I try to nurse her a little everyday but she is having a hard time with it. I think she has a bit of nipple confusion because now she doesn't open her mouth very wide and she chomps on me hard enough to break the skin. She gets pretty frustrated while nursing too and it breaks my heart to see her so upset.

There were so many things that I had planned for with this birth and baby that hasn't gone the way I hoped. It's so frustrating. I want the mother-child nursing bond that I've read about but it hasn't happened. We had a bad NICU experience and one of the criteria for getting her out of there was that she needed to be taking her full measured feedings every three hours for 2 days. She couldn't do it at breast alone so my DH and I really struggled with the decision but ultimately we agreed to let the nurses bottle feed her expressed milk so she could come home. I really thought it would be much easier bringing her back to the breast once I got her home but it hasn't been.

I pump every 4 to 5 hours and I am getting a good amount of milk now. For me pumping has been quite painful but I'm really hoping that when the thrush is gone it will be easier. I found that getting the bigger horn parts has made the pain lessen a great deal. Sorry for rambling.

Thank you again for this group!

[Fiercemama]

I'm a former EP'er, and had to just jump in an show my support! You mamas are awesome! EPing was exhausting at times - I remember many a night leaning over the kitchen sink at midnight cleaning and sterilizing everything, in tears and bone tired.

Here's my story. I had awful thrush within about a week of DD's birth. Nursing was incredibly painful and I dreaded every session, so I let DD nurse with an awful latch. Soon my nipples were severely abraded - I still have a deep crack in one of them, although they healed up years ago. At about 6 weeks, I finally got rid of the thrush, but still couldn't get my nips healed up. One morning I found my nipples bleeding again, and that was it. I was determined to ep. I did it for about 10 weeks, til my nipples were healed.

I had a very abundant supply, and I guess a large storage capacity, so I was able to get away with only pumping about 5 times a day. I got about 1/3 of what I needed each day during the first session in the morning. My heart goes out to all of you who are EP'ing AND struggling with supply issues.

I wanted to bring my DD back to the breast once my nipples healed, but I did know that she might prefer the bottle. Once I was ready, I planned a day where we lolled in bed, had everything we needed around us, and had lots of skin to skin contact. I didn't know anything then about techniques to get her back, but I guess it worked. She latched on at the very end of the day, and never looked back. DD is 4.25 yrs and we're pretty much finished with natural weaning (I think...).

I know that there are many different circumstances on this thread, but sometimes it helps to know that there is someone else out there who has done it. I didn't know anything about ep'ing or e'ing groups online when I was doing it. How I wish I'd had something like this. I just went on my gut instincts and dumb luck.

Oh, I used an Avent Isis. Used it when I returned to work too. Awesome customer service. I loved that I could pump anytime anywhere. I was pretty immodest - I pumped EVERYWHERE with a receiving blanket over my shoulder - parks, train stations, parades, concerts, you name it. Maybe because I had absolutely no point of reference for what I was doing.

Hang in there mamas. You will never regret the efforts you're making for your DCs. :heartbeat :throb :grouphug

[bri276]

OMG I can't believe I just found this.

I'm an EP'er. 11 months now & still going strong. Pumping 5x per day (okay, sometimes 4...heehee). DD eating about 30-35 oz per day, plus some (whole grain, organic) cereal, bananas, sweet potatoes, pears, peas, and sips my water now and then.

DD has a chromosome disorder, so she was born with a bilateral cleft palate (only behind the gumline, no cleft lip). She is also tongue tied and has low muscle tone, so I think she's be a poor nurser even w/o the cleft palate. She uses a Haberman feeder, and can drink from a cup but gets frustrated after 1/2 to 1 oz and wants the bottle back :lol she's had one surgery so far and another one is scheduled for Oct. Hopefully that will be the last one, or maybe one more.

I have an Ameda elite. I've been very happy with it. I only experienced one significant drop in supply, at around 4 months, I got 4.5 oz every 3 hrs instead of 5 oz. However, because I was making more than the baby ate anyways, this didn't affect us, and we have never had to supplement with formula (except in the NICU before my milk came in, hospital policy forced it on us).

I've had mastitis five times. I've had a blood blister pop inside my breast causing me to pump up to 1/2 oz of pure blood before milk would come out, several times over the course of two days. During that same time, I had about a month where I had chronic blisters on one breast. They spontaneously resolved and I have no idea what they were or why they happened. But they were VERY painful! glad that's over.

I'd like to continue to her second birthday, but we'll see. I'll make EVERY effort to at least continue through her next surgery, but there is a chance that after that, I could just have a mental breakdown and throw the darn thing out the window. I haaaaaaaate it. I'm so sick of it. yes, it's easier now than the 8x a day for the first few months. But it's still awful.

Like yesterday. We went to the park to check it out as a location for the baby's 1st birthday party. It was a beautiful day, the first without rain in weeks. On the way back through a quaint town, DH said "I wish we could stop for lunch." Of course, I looked at the clock, and said "Sorry. I have to pump in 1/2 hour." I really can't wait for the day when I can just say, "Sure! let's go out to lunch on the spur of the moment!"

and yes, I do have a hookup to pump in the car, but I don't pack everything every time I go out, nor do I want to! it's just not a great way to live, I feel so trapped sometimes. DD is great about playing with toys by herself for 20 minutes, usually she doesn't even have to because either I do it while she's napping or when DH is home. sorry this was so long. no one else understand ;)

[bri276]

Plus there are wonderful bonding and oral development pluses to the direct bfing.



ETA: I hope I didn't offend any of you valiant EPers. I'm not always good with words. I'm just saying that since EPing is SO hard, that she might want to TRY to continue the partial direct BFing. :)

I won't take offense where none is intended, AND I totally agree with you about the oral development bonuses, but I must say the bonding issue is complicated. Surely, for a mother who had her heart set on bf'ing, and has to deal with rejection issues, and those types of situations, bonding can be interrupted. But for me, it wasn't like that. I felt briefly disappointed that the cleft palate meant we wouldn't be able to nurse, I gave it a few tries with the hospital LCs on the off chance that it might, and then I simply gave up, gave in, and got to business EPing.

no one is more bonded to their child than I am. period. I know some people might think "well you don't know because you've never done it." Ok. You are allowed to think that. But you're still wrong if you do, because I've been to hell and back with this kid, especially with all her medical issues, and I've still had all the bf'ing hormones, and I've sat there and hand expressed into her mouth as she smiles and laughs for months. Again, I don't take offense to your specific comment, because I know you meant it kindly. But I would take issue with anyone who would look down their nose to an EP'ing mom and say we don't have the bond they do with their nursling. :lol there's no way I could have made it this far EPing if I wasn't 1,000% devoted to her, and I know she feels the same towards me. :o

[BakerALM]

ALSO, I'm thinking I may be battling thrush. I don't know for sure though. The pain is not unbearable, but my nipples are pink are raw feeling (I just thought it was from pumping like crazy with the suction turned all the way up). I have some pains in my breast after pumping but my terrible...could this be thrush? I don't have any way of telling by my babe b/c he hasn't nursed in weeks! :(
Could he have it as well...even if he doesn't nurse??? Just looking for some answers! THANKS!

I am in the same situation.. My nipples are either purple, red or white and always look irritated. I am working with my doc to figure out what is going on. Also my breasts always sting, feel like they are on fire (espeically when it is cold or I go into the frozen food section of the grocery) all the way to the chest wall. We are sure that I have Reynaud's but are not sure if that is all that is going on since it can be caused by other irritants like nipple damage from the pump, Thrush, etc.

(On a side note...why do you turn the suction all the way up? That could be causing some nipple trauma and causing your nipple to get really irritated. ???)

I have been doing alot of reading to find out what to do if I do have thrush. What I have found/deduced is that my girl could have thrush also even though I exclusivly bottle feed but she can not pass it back to me since she is never on the breast.

Love to hear the outcome on your end! I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Byeee :)

[mamanurse]

My dd and I struggled to bf for the first 4 months of her life. I saw about a half-dozen IBCLCs and worked REALLY hard to get her to bf. We made a few mistakes along the way that definitely impacted bf like going back to school at 4 weeks post-partum, using a Haberman feeder at 3 weeks, and using a nipple shield from day one.

Anywho, I am an exclusive pumper for my six month old dd. I am totally in the closet about this to my fellow nurses and some friends/family :bag:. I feel guilty that we're not nursing and feel like I'm a bad example to the profession and other people when I bottlefeed in public (BIP).

I know I should feel proud that dd never received a drop of formula, but I still mourn the loss of our bf relationship every day.

Thanks for making this tribe.

[sehbub]

I'm so exhausted, mamas. Guess I just need some encouragement to keep doing this.

DD is only 7 weeks old, but I've been pumping 8-12x a day since she was born, trying desperately to increase my supply.

Yesterday was another low day, and I was only able to pump around 6oz total. DD drank about 16oz. At almost every feeding, formula was added to her milk to get the right amount for her to drink.

I walked to the park with DD yesterday, because it was a gorgeous day. Once there, we got the usual stares and flock of people, because DD is a novelty...she is a 30wk preemie, so she's still very petite...less than 6 pounds. One mama came over to talk to me and had a babe in a sling, happily nursing away. DD started to wake up and fuss, and I reached over to the stroller and got her bottle. This woman looked at me and said, "Oh no, honey, you really should have been breastfeeding her! I can't believe you would deprive your DD of those important nutrients, not to mention the relationship the two of you are missing! You know, you should really talk to..." she just kept going on and on about how I was doing things wrong because I wasn't nursing my babe, and that I should really think twice about giving her formula, and don't I want the best for her? Shouldn't I be more concerned about her health?

I'm so tired of defending myself, and battling the dirty looks. DH wonders why I don't want to leave the house...that's why! We get stared at enough as it is for having a teeny babe, and then when we have to feed her in public and a bottle gets whipped out, we get even more stares or derisive looks. Sometimes I just feel like quitting, so that at least that way people would be right about their assumptions that I'm being a bad mama. :irked:

And, tomorrow I'm spending the day with my sister, who's flying in to DC for a business conference, and I'm trying to decide which pump to take and how best to manage pumping while we're walking around the Smithsonian.

As a PP said, this is the only place I can go where anyone understands.

I can't imagine how some of you have done this for a year or more!! I feel like such a loser for feeling like this at less than two months! :dizzy:

[bri276]

sarah, if it's any consolation, I felt WORSE at 2 months than I do at 11. much worse. I doubted myself all along.

what kind of pump do you have? have you tried any herbs or meds (or do you not want to?)

I'm sorry that mama made you feel bad. If she only knew! you should come to RI, no ones looks twice if you whip out a bottle, quite the opposite. :( though one time at Whole Foods I got a dirty look from a woman when I was in line telling my stepfather how the baby can hold her own bottle now- I must have sounded so very un-AP :lol

[mamanurse]

Keep going Sehbub!!! I lurked on your thread after your babe was born and I think you're doing an awesome job. Keep taking the dom., eating oatmeal, and fenugreek. It does get easier once your supply is established. I was pumping 12 x's per day the first two months, then went to about 8-10 x's per day. At about 3 1/2-4 months, I dropped down to 6 pumps a day. Now, I pump 5 times a day and my babe probably only needs about 4 times a day, but I'm afraid my supply will drop and her needs will increase. Keep up the hard work and don't be afraid to get a bit snippy when someone doubts your mommy skills!

They probably didn't have a premie and they are not walking in your shoes. Don't be afraid to say "Even though it's NONE of your business, there is mm in here!" and then go into your story.

You're a great mom and you're doing a good job! Don't lose faith now.

[BakerALM]

I'm so exhausted, mamas. Guess I just need some encouragement to keep doing this.

DD is only 7 weeks old, but I've been pumping 8-12x a day since she was born, trying desperately to increase my supply.

Yesterday was another low day, and I was only able to pump around 6oz total. DD drank about 16oz. At almost every feeding, formula was added to her milk to get the right amount for her to drink.

I'm so tired of defending myself, and battling the dirty looks. DH wonders why I don't want to leave the house...that's why!

And, tomorrow I'm spending the day with my sister, who's flying in to DC for a business conference, and I'm trying to decide which pump to take and how best to manage pumping while we're walking around the Smithsonian.

As a PP said, this is the only place I can go where anyone understands.

I can't imagine how some of you have done this for a year or more!! I feel like such a loser for feeling like this at less than two months! :dizzy:

Don't fret! Many of us felt and still feel many of the same things that you are feeling now! How I get though it is just telling myself that I will do it "just one more day" I don't set any lofty goals just take it one day at a time. Of course I would love to do this for as long as possible but I don't want to put any more pressure on myself than already is there from myself, family, friends and every other "normal nursing mom" out there.

I also started with a very low supply! About the same as you. Now I am up to approximately 27oz and climbing. :-D I just kept switching pumps and I self express while I am pumping to get every last bit out. It has made a huge difference. Just find what works for you...try it all and have some patience. My girl is 18wks now and her appetite is about 35oz a day so sadly I still can’t meet her need but as I see my supply grow I have hope that someday I will!
Check out the Yahoo group exclusively for EPers...it is another great resource for technical and emotional questions!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPers

Also bring an extension cord to the Smithsonian, the bathroom may have an outlet that you can run into a stall to get some privacy and not make a big deal of it. GOOD LUCK! :thumb

[mama-a-llama]

This woman looked at me and said, "Oh no, honey, you really should have been breastfeeding her! I can't believe you would deprive your DD of those important nutrients, not to mention the relationship the two of you are missing! You know, you should really talk to..." she just kept going on and on about how I was doing things wrong because I wasn't nursing my babe, and that I should really think twice about giving her formula, and don't I want the best for her? Shouldn't I be more concerned about her health?
:irked: :angry :jaw :nono :bang :firedevil
I really wish people wouldn't assume things. She probably has NO idea how hard you're working for those nutrients. Or how much you might wish for that relationship. originally posted by mamanurse
They probably didn't have a premie and they are not walking in your shoes. Don't be afraid to say "Even though it's NONE of your business, there is mm in here!" and then go into your story.
Yeah!
I think the logisitics do get better, as you get into a rhythm. It's better for me at 5.5 months than at 2. I still struggle with pumping on the go, though.
Oh, and not to be a wet blanket, but I'm still pumping 8x a day and struggling to meet his needs. I always get a little nervous when we tell newer ep'ers that they'll be able to drop pumps later, because sometimes it doesn't work that way.

[mama-a-llama]

Augh, need to vent. Right now baby is crying in his swing, and I really can't pick him up while pumping. My older daughter has been crying, gated out of this room because she was hitting him. But I just can't supervise them well when pumping.
I hate this! I feel so un-AP. I hate feeling like I have to choose between psychological development (being held, not crying) and physical development (getting bm). I know not to quit on a bad day, but some days are just so awful. And I'm struggling with supply too--I'm usually about 1 oz under his intake, and eating up my freezer stash fast.

[sehbub]

I'm sorry you're having a rough day, mama. :hug

[orangecanoe]

Carly---Oh, mama, do I have days like that as well! :dizzy: I still haven't figured out a hands free pumping set up, but know I will need to soon. I'm actually thinking it might be easier to do that and have the pump set up on the floor since dd2 is starting to like floor time. It must be hard to have supply worries on top of that. The way I think of it, is with two little ones there are still those times when one of them will have to fuss when the other needs something and I try to look at the pumping as doing something dd2 really needs. When my supply dipped, I took a weekend and pumped at closer intervals (2 hours instead of 3-4) during the day and that seemed to help. I'm also wondering if some of my supply variations aren't do to the soon to return AF? Even nursing dd1 around the clock I still got it back at 8.5 months. I'll stop babbling on here....thinking of you and hoping things look up for you soon. I meant to PM you on your other thread in the SN forum...will try to do that later!

[kathteach]

Hi,

I am soooo happy to have found this thread. I thought I was the only one. I have not read the whole thread but I just wanted to introduce myself quickly. I'm Katherine and my son will be seven weeks this Sunday. I'm taking this pumping one day at a time. I go from hating it and being angry at myself I "failed" to days where I appreciate the fact the technology of the pump is available to me so I can provide for my son.

Wishing all of you the best and looking forward to learning strategies.

[NurseLaurie]

Hi ladies... I have a three week old beauty named Annabelle and we are pondering becoming exclusive pumpers. Annabelle has a bad latch. She makes a horrible clicking noise when she eats. She will eat for 5-7 minutes on one breast and then start flailing around like she is in distress while I try desperately to get her to take some more. Yesterday her poop went green so I called her pediatrician (also a lactation consultant and all around wonderful lady) and she told me to start pumping after Annabelle eats and then bottling her the hind milk. Problem is that after she eats from the breast she is too mad to take the bottle. When I just pump and bottle her she takes the whole 3 ounces lickety split. I don't know whether to trust that she is getting what she needs from the breast, or to give myself the peace of mind of knowing she is getting the breast milk in sufficient quantity. Luckily supply isn't an issue, so we don't even have to worry about switching to formula.

Is it true that breast milk "dries up" faster if you pump? I read that yesterday and it said that exclusive pumping may dry up after 5 weeks. Sounds like crap to me, but I just wanted some assurance that I'm doing the right thing for my baby.

[bri276]

yes, it is true you will risk your supply by becoming an EP'er. even with the best pump, pumping round the clock, and taking herbs, some women just cannot produce for the pump.

I don't think EP'ing is the solution for you. I think she's only three weeks and there is still time to work on her latch. An IBCLC- not a hospital LC, not a pediatrician- should physically view you nursing to assess her latch. When people tell you to feed her bottles, no matter how nice they are, they are giving up on you and giving you what they think is an easy solution. If she is having at least six wet diapers per day, she is getting enough, and there is no need for an additional bottle. There are different reasons for green poo, sure, it could be an indicator that she's getting too much foremilk, but that's not a good enough reason to start EP'ing, put simply. Especially if it's only one day.

Please don't think I'm trying to say "you're not trying hard enough"- I don't think that- I think "you need better support from someone who can figure out WHY the latch is bad and WHAT you can do to correct it.

[orangecanoe]

Mama--Has the LC done pre and post feeding weighs to see how much she's taking in that 5-7 minutes? If you have oversupply issues or the foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, she could really be taking a lot in in that time. There are different reasons for clicking which could be from dealing with abundant milk or other latch issues. I had oversupply with my first daughter and when she was that small she clicked now and again and I was told it was a "benign click" and her way of dealing with the fast flow of milk. Green poo could be from foremilk/hindmilk imbalance or sensitivity to cow's milk in your diet. Pumping (even if it is the hindmilk) is only going to signal your body to make more milk and cause further problems with having too much milk (if that is indeed your issue).

I don't have time to look up links now, but I would recommend browsing around the breastfeeding section of kellymom.com as there is a wealth of info there. Have an LC come for a visit and not just a phone consult (I'm not clear if you've had a home visit or not) and work out latch issues and get an idea if oversupply might factor into your foremilk/hindmilk issues.

As someone who has to EP by circumstance and not choice, I can whole heartedly say I would never choose to do this. It is hard work and not the ideal for me.

[BakerALM]

I don't know whether to trust that she is getting what she needs from the breast, or to give myself the peace of mind of knowing she is getting the breast milk in sufficient quantity.

I just wanted some assurance that I'm doing the right thing for my baby.
Please don't stop nursing! This (EPumping) is a very very hard road to walk. It seems like a quick and easy solution but trust me it is rittled with many problems of it's own, just as exclusive BF has.

If you are truly worried that she is not getting enough you could talk to your LC (Get a good one!) about suplementation at the breast. You could pump after each feed and then just before she begins to fuss at the breast insert the feeding tube to increase the quantiy of milk supplied immediatly. The tube does not need to be at the breast for the entire feed. You can just slip it in the side of her mouth while she is attached.

This will definatly not solve your problem of a "bad latch" and your LC may even say that it might make the problem worse by renforcing a bad behavor with food but it also may give you a happy baby at the breast that will allow you to adjust her latch until she no longer needs the tube inserted at all. Definatly get great LC, that can make all the difference!

Check out these video's...
http://www.drjacknewman.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=42
All the video's on this sight are awsome but inpaticular check out the one called "Lactation Aid" at the bottom of the screen.

Keep us informed as to how it goes. :thumb

[NurseLaurie]

Thanks for the info ladies. My pediatrician is an IBCLC. I'm just very frustrated with the whole thing. I love nursing Annabelle. It gives me such joy to watch her eat and grow from my breast. I knew all along that I would have to be a pumping mom (at least part time down the road because I have to return to work), but I don't want to be an exclusive pumper. It's especially hard at night. Last night I just went with my instincts and let her nurse to her fill and put her back down (without pumping the hindmilk and forcing a bottle on her). Granted, she hasn't pooped much today, but she has had a number of wet diapers already. My pediatrician called me yesterday (after consulting with the local head of LLL) to have me come to the office with my nursing pillow to recreate my nursing situation and weigh her before and after. She is also calling in a physical therapy consult (at the LLL leader's suggestion) and continuing weekly weighs. I'm not sure what a physical therapist can offer us, but we will see. The problem is that she isn't emptying my breasts and they are starting to get hard lumps. I can relieve the lumps by pumping each breast once each day, but then I feel like I'm overstimulating my boobs and adding insult to injury. I guess I should post this in Challenges instead of here, but I know that if anyone at mothering knows challenges it would be you ladies. This is my pediatrician (just so you know where she is coming from). She isn't one of the bottle pushing peds that just wants to get you in and out. http://home.earthlink.net/~drkute/index.html

[SoBlessed]

We just bought the Avent Express 6 Bottle Electric Steam sterilizer, do you guys think it's worth it and does it really speed up cleaning time? Also, do you know of any sterilzers that you do not have to handwash first and can rinse only with?

[GooeyRN]

Augh, need to vent. Right now baby is crying in his swing, and I really can't pick him up while pumping. My older daughter has been crying, gated out of this room because she was hitting him. But I just can't supervise them well when pumping.
I hate this! I feel so un-AP. I hate feeling like I have to choose between psychological development (being held, not crying) and physical development (getting bm). I know not to quit on a bad day, but some days are just so awful. And I'm struggling with supply too--I'm usually about 1 oz under his intake, and eating up my freezer stash fast.

If you want, I have a lot of suggesstions to pump and not have your baby crying. I know its so hard sometimes!

[GooeyRN]

Is it true that breast milk "dries up" faster if you pump? I read that yesterday and it said that exclusive pumping may dry up after 5 weeks. Sounds like crap to me, but I just wanted some assurance that I'm doing the right thing for my baby.

Nope! I am EPing for almost 8 months, and I have a huge oversupply! (over 70 oz a day) Every persons body is different, of course. The more frequently you pump in the first 3 months (when milk production is by hormones, not just supply and demand) the more milk you will have overall. Try to pump atleast every 2-3 hours. You are doing something great for your child! You are doing your best. Keep it up!!!

[sehbub]

We just bought the Avent Express 6 Bottle Electric Steam sterilizer, do you guys think it's worth it and does it really speed up cleaning time? Also, do you know of any sterilzers that you do not have to handwash first and can rinse only with?

We have the microwave steam sterilizer, and it's just that...a STERILIZER. It is NOT a bottle cleaner (I was suprised too!!). In fact, if you put a bottle with milk remnants in it and then sterilize it, it will basically bake the milk stuffs on to the bottle. The bottles still have to be cleaned before being sterilized. All the sterilizer does is kill any bacteria that may have been left behind from washing.

That said, we do use ours all the time. I just feel better...I also put my pump parts in it and sterilize those that way. Pacifiers too (the one she has).

[mammastar2]

Wow, I'm so happy to see this thread! :thumb

I don't need it at this point, since those days are long behind me, but when I was pumping exclusively for my daughter (who's now almost 5- yikes!), I seriously had no idea anyone else IN THE WORLD did the same thing. It felt very lonely, and I would have loved to have known something like this was out there, to feel a bit less self-conscious and inadequate.

Anyway, we had major problems too numerous to mention and came to exclusive pumping when she was about 5 or 6 weeks old. I kept it up exclusively for 6 months or so, and with formula supplements for another 3, all having, as I said, no idea anyonese else did this too. She's tall and healthy, no allergies, no ear infections, and pretty darn smart, and in retrospect I'm proud we did what worked for us.

Good for all of you, and keep your heads up!

[mama-a-llama]

Has anyone decided that although they could pump their hearts out and do 100% bm, they would pump less and supplement?
The thread with the comment about the baby's needs not trumping those of the whole family got me thinking. I'm sacrificing a lot to provide pretty much 100% milk. I hardly care for my older child at all--I get lots of help from family for that. I can't really do much for myslef, go out or anything. My goal was 1 year, and then reevaluating. Since ds isn't eating, adding solids, such that he eats less, isn't going to happen. I might ask the nutritionist about starting to phase in some pureed foods to supplement. But he'll still need a lot of milk.
It would be hard to say, ok, I'll decide to give some formula. But I wonder if dropping a pumping or two and doing formula might make our lives more tolerable.

[orangecanoe]

Carly--I'm not at that point yet, but I did decide pretty soon after she stopped nursing altogether and I had to begin EP'ing in earnest that I would pump 6-7x a day and more on the weekends if I needed a boost (when I had help from my husband), but no more than that. I purposely leave a large block of the morning where I don't have to pump...pump at 8am and then not again til 12-12:30 or even 1pm on an odd day that we're out for longer. I *need* to be able to get out at least part of the day with my toddler and it seems to have helped somewhat. I also had every intention of nursing her til 2 and beyond, but pumping that long? I don't know. She hates the bottle so much even that I don't know that she would willingly take milk beyond a year. Time away from the pump in the morning is what is making EP'ing bearable for me right now. I also cut back to only pumping once during the night instead of twice. Only you know what would work for you. You are doing your best and you care deeply about your kids. Any decision you make today or next week or next month will one that is best for all of you at that time.

[BakerALM]

I did decide pretty soon after she stopped nursing altogether and I had to begin EP'ing in earnest that I would pump 6-7x a day and more on the weekends if I needed a boost (when I had help from my husband), but no more than that.
I never had a large enough supply to support her intake until just last week (4.5months old). It was hard to continually give her formula everyday. But I also made the decision that in order for me to even consider doing this until she was at least a year old I had to be resonable. I knew that if I went crazy with pumping and let it rule my life I would be able to get my supply up but I most likely would not make it to my year goal. So I chose a middle ground. I pump 6-8 times a day and only at night when my daughter wakes. My hubbie takes all the night feeds while I pump and then I take over the rest of the feed. If she happens to sleep though the night then I dont wake up to pump. It does get a bit uncomfortable but she always wakes early enough that I have been able to handle it without getting consitently pluged ducts. I am not saying that this makes it easy but it just bairly makes it manageable. :(

I totally understand how hard it is to make these decisions since their really is no "Up side". It is impossible in this situation to take care of everyones needs, compromise compromise compromise. :grouphug

[Swirly]

I stiull haven't had time to post our story, but here is where I am lately with this EP thing. I am grateful I can give her my nilk. However, one thing I hate lately is being completely unable to leave my house for any period of time because I need to pump. If I do manage to pump, eat, feed my baby, hold and comfort my high needs baby, and then get dressed - it is time to pump again. Today I went 6 hours without pumping, and that happens occasionally, when I just *have* to leave the house. I hate feeling engorged and I hate feeling panicked about my supply being adversely affected. Packing up the pump to take anywhere is such a colossal pain in the arse that I only do it when visiting one friend. Life would just have been so much easier had she nursed :(

I am fairly adjusted to this after 4 months, but sometimes it is still hard. I still offer her the breast daily, figuring I may as well since I have the milk handy and on tap. Last week she actually did nurse on both sides (like 3-5 minutes each side! HOORAY), but since then turns her head away or cries when offered the breast.

I am really grieving and angry lately, as more and more I realize that our nursing relationship was sabotaged by a crappy hospital, 2 horrible lactation consultants who just gave up on us, and a ped who didn't care enough to try to help us figure out *why* she wouldn't nurse regularly and how to help it. I think she needed cranial sacral therapy after a traumatic birth, but it may just be too late now.

[bri276]

ugh. bad few days. I've only been pumping 4x per day and I wonder if that's ok. I mean, dd is 11 months old. I'm still making as much as she needs, without ANY solid food. By next month she'll be able to drink some whole milk if I'm a bit short. (yeah, not the best solution).

does anyone ever feel a bit *jealous* that they can't just say "Eh, gave it my best shot, formula's fine?" I am friends with soooo many ff'ers and sometimes I wish I could be ignorant and just stop EP'ing and convince myself it's not worth the hassle. But especially since dd is at risk for developmental delays I want her to have every drop of human milk proteins to build her little brain, yk? and all the many other reasons.

it's just so difficult when it's late at night and I"m tired and I know I could just go to sleep instead of staying up for another pump. and lately, I have just been giving in and going to sleep instead. :( I hope I don't destroy my supply.

[BakerALM]

ugh. bad few days. I've only been pumping 4x per day and I wonder if that's ok.

it's just so difficult when it's late at night and I"m tired and I know I could just go to sleep instead of staying up for another pump. and lately, I have just been giving in and going to sleep instead. :( I hope I don't destroy my supply.

Hi,

I completely understand how you feel! I am sitting in front of the computer looking at the pump (for the past 2hrs) saying I will pump in just 5 more minuites. I mean I could already be done and in bed by now but I just cant seem to find the motivation. I go through days like this..it seems like a rollercoster. Admitily it has been better since I have found a few EPers forums and found out I am not alone. Well here goes...time to pump. booooooo:gloomy:

[mama-a-llama]

does anyone ever feel a bit *jealous* that they can't just say "Eh, gave it my best shot, formula's fine?" I am friends with soooo many ff'ers and sometimes I wish I could be ignorant and just stop EP'ing and convince myself it's not worth the hassle. But especially since dd is at risk for developmental delays I want her to have every drop of human milk proteins to build her little brain, yk? and all the many other reasons.
I totally feel that way. Ds already has developmental delays; the highest recorded IQ for his syndrome is 85. I figure he desperately needs those 8 points from bm. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, eh?
I hope your supply is fine, and that you can find motivation and energy to pump more if you need to.

[GooeyRN]

I too, am so jealous that I can not say I gave it my best shot and just give formula. I am tired. I hate my pump already. I would run it over with my truck if dd didn't need my milk. I guess she doesn't *need* it since she doesn't have any physical/developmental problems... But I feel as long as I have the milk.. She should get it, and for me to not give it to her would be selfish. And.. If she were to become diabetic or have poor eye sight later in life I would blame myself for not giving her breastmilk. But, it won't be my fault if she were to have these issues later. If I can just suffer pumping a little longer I tell myself every day... I am 8 months into this and I am exhausted!

[MaryJaneLouise]

Hi,

I completely understand how you feel! I am sitting in front of the computer looking at the pump (for the past 2hrs) saying I will pump in just 5 more minuites. I mean I could already be done and in bed by now but I just cant seem to find the motivation. I go through days like this..it seems like a rollercoster. Admitily it has been better since I have found a few EPers forums and found out I am not alone. Well here goes...time to pump. booooooo:gloomy:

:hug Have you set up a hands free system? Then you can play on the computer & pump at the same time :p

[cassdarrow]

I just saw this thread, and I have read all the way through it and I feel like I have come home. My 8th is 4 months old now, and we're EPing. She was so small when she was born she could not latch well, and now just prefers the bottle. Every now and then I can get her to latch on, but...it's rare. My last 4 babies (including her) have had growth problems. It was a relief to find out it was not a milk supply issue, but a milk delivery issue. I just finished pumping hands free, thanks to the link one of you posted to kellymom. I can't even tell you how wonderful that was!

At this point, I am lagging behind her intake. I got some "More Milk Plus", but it doesn't seem to be helping much, so I pumped every hour and a half today. I am so blessed to have some older children to pitch in with baby holding, but I really missed holding her and feeding her in the early days when pumping was constant, trying to get my supply steady.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Sorry.

[sehbub]

No worries, Cass. Ramble away!

PAK is the only reason I have any sanity left. I have to do something other than just let the pump run. Otherwise, I would lose my mind.

It's really tough for me to not just say "let's go with formula" because DD does have to get quite a bit of formula. I'm only able to produce about 4oz of bm a day, and she drinks 16-20oz daily. So her needs far outweigh my supply. Sometimes I wonder why I don't just make the switch completely, and then I look at her drinking her bottle of bm and realize she's not going to spit up, and she'll stay full longer, and she's gained 2 1/2 pounds in a month (she was 4.10 on 5/27, and was 7 pounds on Thursday!) and that can't be due solely to the formula. I have to believe that she really NEEDS my milk, otherwise I would just switch entirely to formula. It sure would make life easier

This is the hardest thing, mamas. I feel like such a newbie, because I've only been doing this for 65 days now (not that I'm counting). I'm just taking it one pumping session at a time (every 3 hours during the day, then I take the night off for sanity sake) otherwise I would get freaked out and quit.

And I am SO jealous of all those women who can breastfeed their babies anytime they want, anywhere. I can't imagine how wonderful it would be to pop a screaming baby on the boob and find their needs met, instead of waiting for a bottle to warm up, or the water to get warm enough to mix the formula. LUCKY!

[mamanurse]

I HATE the pump!!!!!:gloomy: I pump 5 times a day and get about 28-35 oz. Enough for dd's needs without formula, but I have had that thought about switching to ff too:duck: It's just so hard to find time to pump, especially when I can't put dd down (she's been getting upset recently). We are all doing the best we can giving mm to our precious babes. I know I'm definitely giving up the pump when the pediatrician says "Ok, she doesn't "need" mm (or formula) anymore." I would have extended nurse/CLW, but this pumping thing TOTALLY sucks!!!

[BakerALM]

:hug Have you set up a hands free system? Then you can play on the computer & pump at the same time :p

Sadly I have been working through some "breast issues" since day one. I have talked to my LC, family doc, and OB. No one can give me a straight answer. I thought that the LC and I had narrowed it down to Reyaud's and possibly yeast but my family doc says it does not look like yeast and also my OB agrees. Also the OB says it does not sound like Reyaud's since the pain never goes away when it is cold. The only thing that cured the overall breast pain was the weather warming up to 80 degrees F but when it gets cold at night the breast pain returns. Sadly the nipple sensitivity never goes away no matter the weather and I have some white clumping on the nipple tip that led my LC to say it might be yeast. My LC got me a prescription for Newman's All purpose nipple ointment and I have been using it for a few days, both my doc and OB aggree that using the ointment won't hurt but they dont thing it is going to help the nipple sensitivity. :-(

So pumping hands free is not really an option since if I don't use compressions as a sort of counter pressure the pain is unbearable while pumping. :fever:

[loraxc]

BakerALM, have you had your baby's palate checked by an LC? Also, have they looked for tongue-tie? I ask because it sounds like you may have some kind of physical issue going on with the "fit" between breast and mouth that is causing you pain. My DD has a very high "bubble palate" that caused persistent nursing pain and also inefficient milk transfer (she *could* get enough but she nursed for very long intervals).

[BakerALM]

BakerALM, have you had your baby's palate checked by an LC? Also, have they looked for tongue-tie? I ask because it sounds like you may have some kind of physical issue going on with the "fit" between breast and mouth that is causing you pain.

Sadly, yes I have seen abunch of LCs until I finally settled on a great one! I really trust her opnion more than anyone else (she was a midwife for years until a medical condition made her unable to do deliveries, so she moved into lactation) but it is just hard to hear other opnions from everyone else.

As of right now I am Epumping all the time while working on trying to get my girl back to the breast. Well actually it is going very poorly so odds are I will be Epumping forever. :-( So I know the pain is not caused by any malformation in her mouth. But when she was nursing my LC decribed her as having a "cronically short latch", meaning she did not want to take the breast deep enough so I was left with the nipple being chomped on! Also she had a tendency to bite everytime she sucked and with her short latch that issue was extremly painful. Not to mention my phyiscal breast issues that remaned undiagnosed until I went EPumping since everyone thought all the pain was caused by exclusivly by her poor latch. So when we added all the little problems up (oh I forgot to mention that I was told to give her a bottle at the hospital to give my breasts time to heal and me not knowing any better I trusted their opnion. That just made everyother problem worse.) we ended up with one huge problem!:dizzy: That is just the short version of the story....I actually wrote the long version out and wow it is like a mini novel! I will spare you the agony!:gloomy:

[pemja]

This is my first post here. I'm thrilled to see this thread, as my daughter was born with a cleft palate the beginning of April. She's three months now, and I have been pumping exclusively since she can't breastfeed. I have a ton of breastmilk in the freezer from the first month when I was building up here supply. Unfortunately, she won't take any of it....I'm assuming becuase there is some colostrom in it?? Don't know....has anyone else encountered that? Unfortunately, she had her first bottle of formula yesterday. I'm down to pumping four times a day and I am just barely keeping up. If I pump more, I find my 22 month old and my four year old bear the brunt of lost time.

[bri276]

pemja- :hug my dd has a cleft palate too.

have you tried different types of freezer bags? I know you're not making enough to freeze anymore but my dd hated the plastic taste (and smell) that the medela bags produced, once I switched to gerber she's only refused the milk once.

four times a day probably will not keep your supply up. if you can *possibly* push it to five times, it would be more ideal. at the same time- I"M SURE you are right about losing time with the other kids!!! I'm not sure how long you pump for but if you can go a half an hour hopefully that will help.

I've also heard some women have had success with "mother love" tincture, it's available in health food stores.


ETA: do you ever wish that they made bottles that said "BREASTMILK" on them so when you're out in public feeding your baby you could still be sort of NIP? :lol

[pemja]

Thanks bri276. Good idea about the plastic bags -- that's what I'm using. I'm trying to pump for longer periods (close to 30 minutes) now that I'm only doing it four times a day. I've timed it now for naptime & bedtime so that I have long stretches I can relax....instead of trying to rush through it before lunchtime and dinnertime when the kids are crazy.

Do you feed your daughter with the Haberman? I wasn't able to breastfeed my first child (long story), but did so with my second one. Now with my experiences once again with bottles for our third, I find it's easier for me to feed in public with the Haberman. It probably shouldn't be, but it is. Since lots of people ask me what kind of bottle it is, and I can then tell them about her cleft and how I pump and feed it to her in a special bottle. I remember feeling awful about feeding our first in public with a bottle, but for some reason it doesn't seem as difficult this time around. I guess I'm a more seasoned mom too, so I don't care as much about what other people think. I know I just do the best I can providing for my kids. If others want to judge, then let them.

[bri276]

yes, we use the Haberman. I guess my thing with the bottles isn't so much what other people think - because around here, almost everyone uses formula- as much as the fact that I can't promote bf'ing like I wanted to. oh well!
it's weird, people never ask me about the Haberman anymore. I remember one person said "Hmm they make such strange bottles for babies nowadays" She felt a little sheepish when I said what it was for! does your baby have a cleft lip? mine does not, so everyone is shocked when I tell them about the palate.

[pemja]

Yes, my dd has just a cleft palate too, so folks are surprised if they are not aware of the differences between lip & palate. Is there a forum for babies with birth defects? It would be great to communicate with others who have been through the same, especially as my dd's surgery approaches in December.

[GooeyRN]

I am just getting over Mastitis. I used to get about 75 oz a day from EPing, but now I am down to about 52 and dropping further.. My dd is a big eater, has days where she eats 46 oz. Does your supply eventually come back up?

[sehbub]

Well, ladies, my time here has come to an end. After 10 weeks, my milk has completely dried up. Pumping gets nothing anymore, and DD still can not/will not latch, no matter what we tried. I am completely heartbroken that my ability to provide the best for her ended so quickly, but am grateful that I was able to give her as much as I did. I have to believe that she wouldn't have stayed so healthy or recovered from her 3lb birth weight so quickly if she hadn't received any of my milk.

I am so grateful for all of your support through all of this, and will continue to lurk just in case I can help any other mamas. In the meantime, I thank you for helping me through my rough days and showing me the light at the end of the tunnel.

:clap :grouphug

Bri276, when I got my Medela Lactina Select from the hospital, the bottles it came with said: "Breastmilk: From Mother With Love" and "Nature's #1 Best Food: Mother's Milk" on them. :)

[fireant]

Bri276, when I got my Medela Lactina Select from the hospital, the bottles it came with said: "Breastmilk: From Mother With Love" and "Nature's #1 Best Food: Mother's Milk" on them. :)

And my little Medela bottles say "100% Breastmilk" on the sides.

[mamanurse]

I've seen a few new members that are EPers that may not see this thread so far back. I'm giving it a :bump:

[bri276]

thanks for bumping! just in time for me to "brag" that I hit my one YEAR mark on Thursday!! and still going, indefinitely. sigh.

[GooeyRN]

One year! Congrats! How long do you plan on pumping for? I have 3 months and one week to hit a year. Then I plan on reducing my pumps. I am still at 10 a day, getting 55 oz a day. I was getting more(75 oz/day), but mastitis killed that! I will probably stay at 4 pumps a day or so for as long as I can handle it. How long does everyone here plan on pumping for?

[ApplePieBaby]

I plan on pumping til my daughter gets out of the NICU, then we will try to nurse... if she won't I guess I'll keep on pumping LOL

I have a question- can you get thrush if you are EPing?

[GooeyRN]

Yep, you can get thrush. I was just treated for it last month.

[bri276]

well she has either one or two more cleft palate surgeries. so I'm going to see how my supply is after the next one, if it's still good enough, I'll keep going until she's two or if she needs another surgery I'll keep going until it's over. I'd like to make it to 24 months. But I doubt I will have the supply or the determination to make it past 18. :lol

[melbb]

I plan on pumping for one year. It is hard to stay motivated, sometimes. I don't have a great supply (26 oz) and have to pump 30 minutes at a time for 5x/day. Increasing pump sessions, herbs, dom, none of that makes a difference. And I get plugged ducts all the time. Have had mastitis 3 times. Had a couple of bad plugged nipple pores, one of which made an entire side of my breast a lumpy mess because it couldn't empty. Every time something like that happens, I want to stop. I know oversupply can be a curse, but I would love to be able to just pump 4x/day for 15 minutes at a time and get a huge freezer stash so I can stop pumping before a year. I may go beyond a year, but only if I can cut back to pumping 2x/day and just supplement as needed. I don't think I could continue spending so much time doing it. I admore people that do.

[GooeyRN]

My dd is now 9 months. She was taking about 34 oz a day, but now only takes about 28 oz a day. She takes a tiny amount of solid food a day (about an ounce total) I am wondering why she is taking less lately. She does not seem sick or anything. Is this normal? I know if I were BFing I would have no idea how much she was taking in... Is it normal for a baby to take less as they get older? I assumed she would take more...

[mama-a-llama]

Well, I was planning to stop at a year. But now I'm having a dilemma. Since ds is tube fed, his whole diet is liquid. I could puree up solids but there's not much nutritional point when he could just have mother's milk (although I wonder if his drs will start telling me he won't get enough nutrition that way). I'm still pumping 8x day, and struggling a bit with supply. Even if I kept up this schedule, I probably will have to start supplementing more and more. And I really don't want to keep it up--if I could cut back to 3-4 sessions and have enough, I could do that. But I need my life back. I need to enjoy my kids and not always be telling them I have to pump.

I can get some donor milk, but not enough for all his needs. I could try to get insurance to cover banked milk, b/c of his medical issues, but I really doubt it--for a brand new preemie maybe, but not a 1 year old whose heart surgery was long ago. I'm just so afraid he'll start not doing as well on formula, or even doing very badly. Actually, they'll probably want him on Pediasure. I can't afford that AND the pump rental. And the idea of not lactating makes me sad/feel weird. I've been lactating for nearly 2 years (minus a few month during pregnancy) so it's hard to imagine not.

Thanks for letting me ramble.

[nostrow]

Hello ladies! I'm so glad I found you. My heart is going out to all of you EPers! I sucessfully breastfed my 1st daughter, in fact she will be 3 in a week and she still occassionally asks to nurse. I had Zoe February 3rd of this year and she started out nursing like a champ. Right around the 3 month mark she started to get a bit, oh how do I put it, impatient at the breast because she couldn't possibly wait the couple of seconds for letdown. Her nickname is chub-chub if this tells you anything.:lol Right about this time we also introduced a bottle because I knew I would be returning to work, since I'm the main breadwinner in the family. Well, she loved the bottle. Ever so gradually she decided to only take the bottel and for a while she would nurse at night but now even that is done. So she will be 6 months old in a bit and I've been ep for 2 months now. I am just able to keep up with her daily needs but haven't been able to put any up in the freezer. That had been stressing me out but I am thankful that I can at least keep up with her. I've been back at work now for a month and I am able to pump in an unused office (with my first I had to pump in the bathroom:( which I did for a year) but for some stupid reason I feel quilty when I leave my desk to pump. I've been real sad lately because I miss nursing and I did know we were going to be done. I was hoping at first she was maybe going thru a growth spurt or something and would settle back down but no such luck. I still offer the breast sometimes when I'm feeding her but she acts all offended and cries horribly. When it first started happening I looked for suggestions but because we needed her to still take a bottle I was told not to even try to get her back to the breast. Besides what was described to me was basically forcing her to take the breast meaning don't offer a bottle when she gets hungry. I hope to write more later. I am using a Medela Pump in Style.

Nikki

[melbb]

Hello ladies! I'm so glad I found you. My heart is going out to all of you EPers! I sucessfully breastfed my 1st daughter, in fact she will be 3 in a week and she still occassionally asks to nurse. I had Zoe February 3rd of this year and she started out nursing like a champ. Right around the 3 month mark she started to get a bit, oh how do I put it, impatient at the breast because she couldn't possibly wait the couple of seconds for letdown. Her nickname is chub-chub if this tells you anything.:lol Right about this time we also introduced a bottle because I knew I would be returning to work, since I'm the main breadwinner in the family. Well, she loved the bottle. Ever so gradually she decided to only take the bottel and for a while she would nurse at night but now even that is done. So she will be 6 months old in a bit and I've been ep for 2 months now. I am just able to keep up with her daily needs but haven't been able to put any up in the freezer. That had been stressing me out but I am thankful that I can at least keep up with her. I've been back at work now for a month and I am able to pump in an unused office (with my first I had to pump in the bathroom:( which I did for a year) but for some stupid reason I feel quilty when I leave my desk to pump. I've been real sad lately because I miss nursing and I did know we were going to be done. I was hoping at first she was maybe going thru a growth spurt or something and would settle back down but no such luck. I still offer the breast sometimes when I'm feeding her but she acts all offended and cries horribly. When it first started happening I looked for suggestions but because we needed her to still take a bottle I was told not to even try to get her back to the breast. Besides what was described to me was basically forcing her to take the breast meaning don't offer a bottle when she gets hungry. I hope to write more later. I am using a Medela Pump in Style.

Nikki

Nikki,
This is almost the exact same thing that happened with me and my DD. She didn't latch at birth and never really nursed like a champ, but also was impatient and got spoiled with a bottle (in combination with me having a supply issue at the same time). She just screams at me, too. Good luck to you and I am sorry BFing didn't work out.
Melanie

[Mamapadawan]

it's good to see an EPing thread! I'll give a quick synopsis of my story, and how I wound up EPing for 13 months:

I had my son on 11/30/04. He had absolutely no interest in breastfeeding at all, and didn't even have any rooting or sucking instinct. We had no idea why, and I was very insistent on breastfeeding. Unfotunately, like so many other mom's experiences, the nurses were absolutely indifferent to my problems and simply offered formula when the typical 2 minute attempt at breastfeeding failed. But for some reason, my son would violently vomit up formula. So I pumped, and for the next 3 months, I tried every 3 hours to nurse my son. It was the most traumatic 3 months of my life. The LCs were baffled, but were certain it was my son's problem, and I was doing everything right. We even went to a feeding specialist, who was also stumped.
And then, a few days after 4 months old, he began screaming constantly and refusing all food. After 12 hours of screaming, we took him to the hospital, thinking he had bad reflux or something. The or something would up being the reason he couldn't nurse - he had a diaphragmatic hernia and required immediate emergency surgery. He was truly a "miracle baby", since a diaphragmatic hernia usually means only a 50/50 chance of survival at birth. But according to the surgeon, my son was "pinching" his hernia shut so he could breathe. Unfortunately, this meant he didn't have enough strength to nurse. I'm glad he chose breathing! I'm also very glad I pumped, since the formula couldn't be digested because his small intestine was being "pinched" in the hernia. So because breastmilk is so quickly and easily digested, it's the only thing he was able to eat.
So I EP'd for 13 months for him. It took until he was a year old before he would take any solid food, so I kept pumping. Luckily I had a very serious oversupply (max. output was about 100 oz a day), so feeding him wasn't a problem. He's now 20 months old, and I'm finally down to the last box of frozen milk for him.
EPing presented many challenges. I stopped counting at over 100 clogged ducts, and I had 4 bouts of mastitis. I learned to pump anywhere and everywhere - airports, sitting on airplanes, in baseball parks, as both a passenger and driver in a car, you name it. But the obvious need that my son could die if I didn't pump kept me going. I tried nursing my son after he healed from his surgery, but he learned to "chew" on a bottle to get milk, and attempted to do the same on my nipple. After a few weeks of unsuccessfully trying to teach him how to suck, I gave up because my poor bloody nipples simply couldn't take the abuse anymore. It took weeks for those badly bitten gals to heal.
The worst part of it was, and still is, the mourning process. I'm still mourning the loss of a breastfeeding relationship with my son, and I hope and pray that #2, due in the end of January, will be able to take my milk "from the tap".
So good luck to all you fellow EPers out there - and "positive pump vibes"!

Rach

[pemja]

Thanks for this thread! Here's our story....
My 3 1/2 month old dd was born with a cleft palate, so I've been EPing since the start. I pump four times a day and get just enough to feed her (about 26 oz a day). I'd like to be able to do more (I did at the start), but with a 4 year old and a 22 month old, it's all I can seem to do at the moment, while still spending time with the others. I'm hoping to be able to pump until a year old, definitely until she gets her surgery at 9 months.

[mamanurse]

Welcome to all the new EPers! Hopefully this thread will be more active now that New Posts and search is back up and running.

On goals....My original pumping goal, once I realized (and accepted) that I was going to be an EPer, was 1 year so dd would not "need" to have formula. Now, that a year will be coming up in 4 months, I feel I could pump twice a day for her so she could continue to have my milk for longer. We're definitely doing away with the bottle, though. I think she'll have it out of a cup or with her cereal...

[HippieMamaBE]

Hey EPers..
For those of you who have made it to 12 months or longer....did you start to have a drop in supply around the one year mark??? I've been pumping 4x/day for at least the last three months, and get enough for DS daily. I make just enough for DS, no oversupply whatsoever. In the last few weeks I have gone from getting 5.5 ounces per session, except in the am, where I usually get 10-11, to getting less than 5 ounces per session, and sometimes 8-9 in the am. I dont know what's going on, I havent been doing anything different, and my real concern is that I start my new job in about two weeks, and I'm worried my supply will drop even further. I've tried all the herbs, and they dont seem to be working. I hate to have to try dom or reglan, but I am determined to make it to 18 months pumping, so I guess I'll have to do something. Any suggestions?

[GooeyRN]

Hey EPers..
For those of you who have made it to 12 months or longer....did you start to have a drop in supply around the one year mark??? I've been pumping 4x/day for at least the last three months, and get enough for DS daily. I make just enough for DS, no oversupply whatsoever. In the last few weeks I have gone from getting 5.5 ounces per session, except in the am, where I usually get 10-11, to getting less than 5 ounces per session, and sometimes 8-9 in the am. I dont know what's going on, I havent been doing anything different, and my real concern is that I start my new job in about two weeks, and I'm worried my supply will drop even further. I've tried all the herbs, and they dont seem to be working. I hate to have to try dom or reglan, but I am determined to make it to 18 months pumping, so I guess I'll have to do something. Any suggestions?

I am at 9 months now and starting to drop a bit. Can you try to add in a few extra pumps for a few days? I hear that adding a pump overnight can make a huge difference. That is when prolactin is highest. You can also try power pumping. Pump 10 mins, stop for 10, and repeat for an hour. Do that 2-3 times a day for 2-3 days may help. Good luck.

[mamanurse]

You could also try adding fenugreek and oatmeal to your diet. I have a bottle of fenugreek waiting in my medicine cabinet when my body starts decreasing the milk production.

[mama-a-llama]

Hey EPers..
For those of you who have made it to 12 months or longer....did you start to have a drop in supply around the one year mark??? I've been pumping 4x/day for at least the last three months, and get enough for DS daily. I make just enough for DS, no oversupply whatsoever. In the last few weeks I have gone from getting 5.5 ounces per session, except in the am, where I usually get 10-11, to getting less than 5 ounces per session, and sometimes 8-9 in the am. I dont know what's going on, I havent been doing anything different, and my real concern is that I start my new job in about two weeks, and I'm worried my supply will drop even further. I've tried all the herbs, and they dont seem to be working. I hate to have to try dom or reglan, but I am determined to make it to 18 months pumping, so I guess I'll have to do something. Any suggestions?
I haven't made it to 12 months yet but. . . Do you have your period back yet? I had a drop just before getting mine back, and then again this month before getting it again.

[bri276]

well, DD just turned one on the 13th, and I've gone down to 4x per day most days. If I feel like it, I'll do 5, but that's rare. I haven't been keeping track of my exact supply amount but I'm guessing I'm down a few ounces overall.

personally, I've sort of chosen to just go with the flow, literally! I've been giving her more solids and have even given her a few ounces of whole milk at times that I didn't have enough breastmilk left over (has only happened twice so far.) She's been really getting into fruit and yogurt lately so I feel comfortable that she's getting enough, and I'm just not willing to pump more than 4x per day anymore.

However, if I do notice a big drop, I plan to take the "more milk plus" tincture. We'll see!

[Darcy37]

Can I join the group?

[bri276]

no. of course you can't.



:lol:

[Darcy37]

If Iam pumping 5 times a day and getting 20 ounces total for the day and my baby is 2 months old is that enough milk for her?

[BakerALM]

If Iam pumping 5 times a day and getting 20 ounces total for the day and my baby is 2 months old is that enough milk for her?

Every baby is different! Mine took about 18-24oz at that age but as she grew her appitite also increased. Before we added solids she was eatting between 32-38 oz . I think we all would aggree that her intake will increase before she levels out again so you might want to think about working to increase your output before she outgrows your current supply. Also it would allow you to put together a freezer stash for those crazy growth spurts. :thumb

[Darcy37]

Here is pic's of my 2 month old Athena Marie
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/Darcy38/Indeepthought.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/Darcy38/Iamsocute.jpg

[mama-a-llama]

If Iam pumping 5 times a day and getting 20 ounces total for the day and my baby is 2 months old is that enough milk for her?
That's what my ds was getting at that age, I think. He has fixed intake b/c he's tube fed. But I agree with pps that trying to increase now might be good, even if you end up with a big freezer stash. I actually donated my surplus back in the day when I had more than enough. Now I sort of wish I'd just kept it, but I guess it was nice to help someone.

[mamanurse]

Has anyone else's :cat: eaten their breastpump tubing? My wicked kitty Pagan has eaten it not once, but twice. I have replacement tubing stored in my closet for the next time I forget to put the tubing away:lol

[GooeyRN]

Has anyone else's :cat: eaten their breastpump tubing? My wicked kitty Pagan has eaten it not once, but twice. I have replacement tubing stored in my closet for the next time I forget to put the tubing away:lol

My cat does not mess with the tubing, but dd loves to chew on it. I am terrible about putting it away. Now that she has a tooth I will have to be more careful.

[melbb]

If Iam pumping 5 times a day and getting 20 ounces total for the day and my baby is 2 months old is that enough milk for her?

She will likely increase what she eats as she gets older. I don't remember what my DD ate at that time, I think she ate 25-30 oz. She went as high as 40 oz and now that she is on solids is at 35 oz. I can only pump 26 oz and cannot increase my supply any further.

[Darcy37]

Iam getting only 21 ounces a day and she is 2 months old

[orangecanoe]

Darcy-- the rule of thumb that I've read is that a babe will need approx. 2.5oz per pound of body weight. My 5 month old is about 16 or so pounds and just now started eating around 30-32oz consistently and I've been getting 35-40 ounces and just recently cut back to 5 pumps, but it took about 7-8 pumps/day and 1 to 2 pumps at night to get up to that amount from when I started pumping in April. She will eventually need more than 20 oz/day to grow at some point so I would add some pumps in and look into other ways to increase your supply to get ahead of her needs.

[mamanurse]

I took my first capsule of fenugreek today:gloomy: I was "supposed" to get AF sometime around the first of the month and haven't gotten it yet. It would have been my 3rd cycle postpartum. I just hope I'm not pg yet:fingersx:

Do any of you know how long it takes to work? I'm almost to the point of having to supplement with formula. My babe won't take my freezer stash:(

[GooeyRN]

You should notice a difference with in 3 days, maximum benefit within 2 weeks.
About your freezer stash..... I was devastated when dd would not take it! I have 3 deep freezers full! I started mixing it with fresh ebm. 3 oz of fresh, 1 oz of frozen. Then 2oz of each, then 3 oz frozen and 1 oz fresh. It took her a week to get used to the different flavor. It does smell and taste much different, IMHO. (yuck!) But if it has truely gone bad, it wont just smell yucky, it will smell like sour milk. But now she takes it with no problem at all not mixed. I am trying to rotate the stock some. Tomorrow she will be getting milk from November!

[pemja]

OK, so pumping has never been totally comfortable for me, but for the last few days I've been trying to ignore some discomfort when pumping my left breast. Well, last night in the shower, I looked under my nipple (my very large nipple) and found a 1/4 inch cut! OUCH! Looks kind of like a tooth mark (which we know can't be, since I'm EPing and my daughter doesn't even have a tooth!). Any ideas on quick healing? Unfortunately, my left breast is my high output breast -- about 5-6 oz per pump, where I only get one or two ounces from the other side.

Luckily, I have this site to search and read while pumping -- keeps my mind off the pain.

[bri276]

Here is pic's of my 2 month old Athena Marie
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/Darcy38/Indeepthought.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/Darcy38/Iamsocute.jpg


so cute!!!


pemja- ouch!!! I've had trouble with one side bleeding from nipple trauma in the past and you just kind of have to breathe through it. I think Lanisoh makes some cream for healing but I don't know where to get it. hopefully it will go away soon!

[Kaitnbugsmom]

subbing as I am now ep'ing again, manual just isn't working anymore :(

[kathteach]

Hi mamas,

I am wondering about donating since my freezer stash is getting somewhat out of control and the stuff is only good for 3 to 4 mos. I don't think we can use it all up in time.

Any ideas on how/where to donate? I would like to donate to an adoptive mom but not sure about the legality or how to find one.

[mamanurse]

I would rotate out your freezer stash rather than donating it. You can just use the frozen milk 1-2 times per day and freeze new milk in its place. This way you may be able to stop pumping well in advance of your dc's need.

[GooeyRN]

I would rotate out your freezer stash rather than donating it. You can just use the frozen milk 1-2 times per day and freeze new milk in its place. This way you may be able to stop pumping well in advance of your dc's need.

I rotate my milk. I have 2.75 deep freezers worth, and give dd 8 oz a day of frozen, so that I am continually rotating it. Milk is good up to a year in a deep freeze. If I keep rotating, I can probably quit pumping about 5 months sooner than planned. :bgbounce :bgbounce

[Swirly]

OK, so pumping has never been totally comfortable for me, but for the last few days I've been trying to ignore some discomfort when pumping my left breast. Well, last night in the shower, I looked under my nipple (my very large nipple) and found a 1/4 inch cut! OUCH! Looks kind of like a tooth mark (which we know can't be, since I'm EPing and my daughter doesn't even have a tooth!). Any ideas on quick healing? Unfortunately, my left breast is my high output breast -- about 5-6 oz per pump, where I only get one or two ounces from the other side.

Luckily, I have this site to search and read while pumping -- keeps my mind off the pain.

I had this happen in the beginning, also to my high producing breast, and it was because the cups/funnels were too small. If you are suing a Medela pump, you can buy larger size funnel thingies, which helped tremendously. If you use ones that are too small for too long, your supply can suffer. My right boob never caught up with the left again after that happened (the cuts got infected).

[SuperMarcy]

Wow am I glad to find this thread! My ds is almost 8 weeks old and I've been eping for 6 weeks. He started out latching on mostly fine-- some difficulties, but since he's my first I just figured it was a learning curve-- that we'd both get the hang of it. But nursing kept getting worse and worse. He went from mostly latching on to crying whenever I offered him my breast. He was losing weight and we were threatened by the pediatrician that we'd have to supplement. Well after consulting with both of my midwives, two LC's and la leche league it started making sense. I knew that I had PCOS but I didn't know that could affect milk supply. I started pumping to see how much milk I had, horrified to discover that with each pumping session I'd get 1/2 to 3/4 of an ounce on one side, and just drops on the other. So I started taking fenugreek and inositol, which haven't made much of a difference, and started feeding ds an organic formula. I am able to give him about 3 oz of bm a day and a wonderful friend gives us about the same amount. My dream had always been to be an exclusively breastfeeding mom-- I wasn't even going to buy a pump! So this whole thing came as a huge shock and disappointment. I still melt down every so often about the lack of breastfeeding relationship with ds. I've offered him the breast for comfort, but he just gets to frustrated, that it isn't comforting. I just keep telling myself that I'm giving him all I can. Thanks for starting this thread... it is so great to know that there are others going through similar things!

[mamanurse]

:Hug to you SuperMarcy! I'm glad you found us too. Bf can be very difficult.

We tried everything as well to get dd on my breast. Have you tried an SNS or LactAid? It might be too late for that now since your ds has a negative association with the breast, but you might be able to try it in a little bit. Then he is at least getting nourishment from your breast while providing more stimulation to increase milk production.

I hope you find some support and helpful hints from us.

[kathteach]

Just bumping up the thread and wondering how everyone is doing.
I also have a question: what are all of you doing at night? My DS has started to sleep longer but I am still waking up every 3 to 4 hours to pump. It's starting to really affect me emotionally but I"m nervous about losing my supply. The couple of times I slept in I woke up with hard boobs and blocked ducts.

Any advice would be welcome because honestly I want to throw the pump out the window and buy some formula. I do, but I don't.

[GooeyRN]

I still pump at night, every two hours, just like during the day. I am EPing for 10 months now, so that means I never sleep more than one hour and forty minutes at a time. :( I did learn to sleep while I pump, though. It made things much better for me. I prop up with pillows, hook up using a sports bra with holes to go hands free, and go back to sleep. I have a cooking timer next to me to ding when 20 minutes are up, so I can disconnect and go back to bed. I also have a mini fridge in my bedroom so that I don't have to go downstairs to drop off the milk. I sleep with the pump in my bed so I don't have to set it up each time. I do not wash the flanges between uses, I just store them in the mini fridge.

Why do I pump at night... I did have an enormous over supply. At 3 months I had 120 oz a day. By 4 months I had 75. At 8 months I got a raging case of mastitis and dropped to 50 oz a day. So I still freeze about 15 oz a day... But if I get mastitis again my supply will drop again. If I drop 25 oz a day again from mastitis... I will not have enough for my dd (averages 35 oz a day, she will not eat much solid food). So I do not want to lower my supply for fear of the "what if's". I do look forward to when she eats some food so I wont worry if I drop in supply.

[mamanurse]

I gradually started spreading out my pumping around 4 months. I was making plenty of milk for my dd (about 50 oz per day) and she had been "sleeping through the night" since ten weeks. I just went from pumping every 3-4 hours around the clock to making 5 hours at night, then 6, and now I can go 9 hours. I make 12 oz in the morning and my breasts are REALLY full when I wake up. I now only pump 5x's per day and am making a little more than my baby needs.

Gooey-OMFG!!! I can't believe you still pump that much. What dedication:bow I'm not sure I would still be pumping if I had to do that. I'm loving my sleep and sanity at this point.

Forgot to add. If you aren't making A LOT of milk, I wouldn't dramatically cut out the night pumping. You've got to make sure you'll still be making enough milk when your babe is older.

[amybw]

subbing
:)

[BakerALM]

I have never set my alarm to pump! :p

My LC (who is Wondreful) said that a sane mommy is just as importaint as MM. In the beginnining I had a severe problem with a major under supply. I kept upgrading Hospital grade pumps when ever my supply would plateau. Each pump slowly increased my supply until I now surpass her needs and have a nice freeser stash. Yes, in the beginning I had to suplement with formula but those precious few hours at night that I could just sleep when my daughter slept was the trade off.

I am so glad that my LC told my that I should not set an alarm, she said pump when my daugher woke and only if my body woke me due to painful engorgement. I think if I had to wake to an alarm to pump I would have "lost it" in the beginning when we were dealing with all the other stresses and pressures of being a new parent and loosing the BFing relationship. I don't know how you galls do it, waking to an alarm every few hours! WOW

It is amazing how each persons body responds differently to the same stimulus. :dizzy:


Andrea
EPing for Lola 6.5 mths

[GooeyRN]

I have never set my alarm to pump! :p

My LC (who is Wondreful) said that a sane mommy is just as importaint as MM. In the beginnining I had a severe problem with a major under supply. I kept upgrading Hospital grade pumps when ever my supply would plateau. Each pump slowly increased my supply until I now surpass her needs and have a nice freeser stash. Yes, in the beginning I had to suplement with formula but those precious few hours at night that I could just sleep when my daughter slept was the trade off.

I am so glad that my LC told my that I should not set an alarm, she said pump when my daugher woke and only if my body woke me due to painful engorgement. I think if I had to wake to an alarm to pump I would have "lost it" in the beginning when we were dealing with all the other stresses and pressures of being a new parent and loosing the BFing relationship. I don't know how you galls do it, waking to an alarm every few hours! WOW

It is amazing how each persons body responds differently to the same stimulus. :dizzy:


Andrea
EPing for Lola 6.5 mths

My LC (who I love!) told me that I would have to pump a MINIMUM of 8 times preferably 12 times a day, with no longer than 3 hours between pumps in order to have a full milk supply. So thats what I went by (and still do). I later learned that everyone is different and responds differently to the pump. I was devastated about the loss of the BFing relationship (and how much easier life could be w/o a breast pump involved) I did kind of loose it mentally for a little while (maybe ppd?) in the beginning months since dd woke every hour and i pumped every 2 hours. DD had colic and we both cried every evening. :crying

I was so upset about screwing up the BFing that I wanted to do something to "make it up" to dd. So I told myself that she will not have a drop of formula if it is within my power. If I did everything possible and didn't make enough milk, of course I would give her formula. But I could not forgive myself if I let my supply diminish due to my needs/wants. I survived working nightshift with extreme insomnia during the day for a few years, surely I can survive getting up every two hours to pump. Some disturbed sleep sure beats very little sleep.

My dh laughs at me, since when I am determined to do something, NOTHING gets in my way. :lol He picked on me b/c I would not allow myself to get even one "b" grade while in college. I guess its just my personality. Im a bit screwy when I am determined. :nut After I am done EPing I wonder what my next goal will be... :flipped :Sheepish:

[mamanurse]

Gooey- I think what your LC told you is true especially for the first few months. However, I think you might be unecessarily torturing yourself. (Yes, sleep deprivation is torture) You are an amazing woman and obviously very dedicated to your baby:thumb, but you might be able to at least space out your nighttime pumpings.

Ok. I won't pester you about it any more.:p

[BakerALM]

My dh laughs at me, since when I am determined to do something, NOTHING gets in my way. :lol He picked on me b/c I would not allow myself to get even one "b" grade while in college. I guess its just my personality. Im a bit screwy when I am determined. :nut After I am done EPing I wonder what my next goal will be... :flipped :Sheepish:

I think anyone who sucessfully EPs has to be a determined woman and have a supportive family by her side!

( I also am a 4.0 college grad and I have the under eye circles to prove it! Electrical & Computer Engineering 2003 :thumb)

[GooeyRN]

Gooey- I think what your LC told you is true especially for the first few months. However, I think you might be unecessarily torturing yourself. (Yes, sleep deprivation is torture) You are an amazing woman and obviously very dedicated to your baby:thumb, but you might be able to at least space out your nighttime pumpings.

Ok. I won't pester you about it any more.:p

You aren't pestering. I am just paranoid about not making enough. :eyes When is it safe to decrease pumping? Do you have to pump for longer at each session when you drop pumps to maintain supply? I think that would bother me more than frequent pumping, since its so hard to entertain dd while I pump. I guess I wouldn't worry about supply so much if dd would eat some food so I didn't have to make so much. She has days where she takes 40 some oz. She is still such a skinny thing. She is 10 months old, and today she ate 3 green beans total for the day. Yipee. Yesterday she had 4 carrot wheels. I planned on hanging up the horns when she was a year old and giving her WCM. I can't do that if she isn't eating. I have a feeling I will be pumping a LONG time...

[mamanurse]

The session that takes me the longest to get my 8 oz yield is this session in the early evening. It takes me about 20 minutes to get 8 oz. All the other sessions take about 10-15 minutes. I also thought you had a plethora of milk in your freezer. So, if you find that you don't make quite enough after spacing out pumping then you could use your stash and go back to what you're currently doing.

[mama-a-llama]

So, if you find that you don't make quite enough after spacing out pumping then you could use your stash and go back to what you're currently doing.
Yeah, it seems like it's worth a shot. I tried dropping a pump back when I was quite ahead, but found that dropped my supply below intake for the day. So went back to 8x day.

And now I'm not always making enough again--my supply drops after I ovulate, and comes back up somewhat once AF comes, then I make plenty right before ovulating. Extra pumping doesn't seem to help during this supply dip.

But yeah, if you're keeping track, and after a few days to a week of spaced out pumping at night your supply is dropping significantly, then some power pumping should get it back where you want it.

[GooeyRN]

Thanks for the tips! Positive Pumping Vibes to all!

[melbb]

Gooey,I would definitely try to cut out some pumps. I think it is for the first 3 months that it is really important to pump frequently. I personally have never made enough milk for DD, making around 26 oz/day. I was pumping 9x/day, taking all the lactogenic herbs and foods, dom, nothing increased my output. I now pump 5x/day and still pump the same amount. I think for a lot of women, they don't see drastic decreases in supply until they go below 4 pumps a day.

[GooeyRN]

Gooey,I would definitely try to cut out some pumps. I think it is for the first 3 months that it is really important to pump frequently. I personally have never made enough milk for DD, making around 26 oz/day. I was pumping 9x/day, taking all the lactogenic herbs and foods, dom, nothing increased my output. I now pump 5x/day and still pump the same amount. I think for a lot of women, they don't see drastic decreases in supply until they go below 4 pumps a day.

You have the same output pumping 5 times a day as when you pump 9 times a day!? That sounds great. I could probably pump for 2 years if I only had to pump 4-5 times a day. Pumping every 5-6 hours wouldn't be too bad. It would give me a huge window of time to go shopping, to the parks, whatever without dragging the pump with me. I hate pumping in the car and spilling milk and having my car reek of sour milk. :crap Do your breasts ache or get lumpy between pump sessions? The one time I messed up the clock at night and slept 5 hours I woke up with rock hard, lumpy, sore breasts. (my breasts are pretty small) Does your body adjust to storing the milk for longer? Thanks so much for telling me your experience!

[melbb]

Just bumping up the thread and wondering how everyone is doing.
I also have a question: what are all of you doing at night? My DS has started to sleep longer but I am still waking up every 3 to 4 hours to pump. It's starting to really affect me emotionally but I"m nervous about losing my supply. The couple of times I slept in I woke up with hard boobs and blocked ducts.

Any advice would be welcome because honestly I want to throw the pump out the window and buy some formula. I do, but I don't.

I still pump once in the middle of the night. I cannot take the drop in supply that would result as I already have an inadequate supply. It is different for everyone.

[Swirly]

There is no reason a woman with such a great supply should still be pumping 12 times per day. I thought I was obsessive! I know you are doing what you feel is best for your baby, but I think we who have failed BF relationships and who pump can develop a bit of an obsession or even a martyr syndrome. Women who nurse and whose babies sleep through the night don't usually nurse every two hours, so you really don't have to do so either (especially with great supply).

I started out pumping 7-8 times per day, and would get ~24 ounces. She only ate maybe 20 ounces, so that was good. She then nursed with a nipple shield (yay!) for two weeks (then rejected it :gloomy: ), and the nipple stimulation increased my supply to ~33-35 ounces per day (I still pumped after every nursing session). I now pump for 20-25 minutes, 5-7 times per day (most usually 5 or 6, rarely 7 times), and I get exactly the same amount no matter how often I pump.

My pump schedule is usually: (I try to be flexible during the day)
8:30 am
12:30 pm
4:00 pm
7:00 pm,
10:15 pm
3:45 am

On weekends, I may pump at 10:30 or 11:00 pm, and then stretch it until 4:30 am, and sleep until 9:00 am afterward. I can change the 4:00 pm pump to 5:00 or 6:00 and drop the 7:00 and actually usually get more milk for the day that way. I just can't always do that as I pump in advance of her meals and lately she eats so much I have to pump at 4:00 or so to get her next meal ready.

My boobs rarely get engorged anymore. Her horrible reflux is much better these days, and her appetite is starting to chase my supply. (yesterday, she ate 32 ounces, and I only made 35 & 1/2). I am worried that after this long (six months), I won't be able to increase it. I eat oatmeal almost every day, but hate mother's milk tea. Fenugreek gives me night sweats like mad, but I may try it.

I offer her the breast daily, and she latches occasionally. When she does latch (usually only flat on her back on the bed, with me curling over her), she does it so perfectly. It makes me both elated and sad. Other times she just plays with me or pushes my breast away and cries like I am trying to kill her. I always hope she will make the switch to breast. I also hope her noodling around with my breast will maybe stimulate more milk production.

[mama-a-llama]

but I think we who have failed BF relationships and who pump can develop a bit of an obsession or even a martyr syndrome.
:bag: Yep. I know I do.

[mamanurse]

I think it's a really good idea to post our pumping "schedules." Mine is centered around Livi's sleeping times and when dh gets home from work.

6:30 am
9:30 am
1:30 pm
5:30 pm
9:30 pm

I also only pump five times a day. I found that I get the same yield when I pump five times as I did when I pumped 6-8 times a day.

[orangecanoe]

I cut out the night pump a while back and found that I just started making more at the first pump. I also notice that during the day if I get more at one pump (if I pump longer) I just get less at the next one and the same total by the end of the day. I even find that on the odd day that I skip a pump in the afternoon when I'm out with the kids, that I can just pump for longer when I get back and it evens out. Nursing babies don't always eat at the exact same times for the exact same amount of time so being late with a pumping time doesn't stress me out anymore. I also notice the supply fluctuations with my cycle that Carly noted and since I'm a few days ahead of her in the fridge w/ some extra in the freezer it really is okay if day to day I'm up or down a few ounces.

These days I'm pumping at 8am, 1pm, 4pm, 7pm, 10pm ---I was doing noon, 3, 630 but am trying to shift to better coordinate w/ nap schedules and dinner time.

Dd also has horrible reflux so I think maybe I worry more about her intake/feedings than I do the pumping.

[melbb]

You have the same output pumping 5 times a day as when you pump 9 times a day!? That sounds great. I could probably pump for 2 years if I only had to pump 4-5 times a day. Pumping every 5-6 hours wouldn't be too bad. It would give me a huge window of time to go shopping, to the parks, whatever without dragging the pump with me. I hate pumping in the car and spilling milk and having my car reek of sour milk. :crap Do your breasts ache or get lumpy between pump sessions? The one time I messed up the clock at night and slept 5 hours I woke up with rock hard, lumpy, sore breasts. (my breasts are pretty small) Does your body adjust to storing the milk for longer? Thanks so much for telling me your experience!

Yes, I pump the same. I don't know what the deal is. I wouldn't be considered low supply, but I cannot pump enough for DD no matter what. I don't think my problems is storage capacity (although I would say my storage capacity is 4 oz/breast unless I want more plugged ducts and mastitis cases than I have already have), but more production capacity. My breasts cannot seem to produce more than 1.1 oz/hour. I cannot go more than 6-7 hours without getting full to the point where I can have problems with plugged ducts. Sometimes I will oversleep during the night (I don't set an alarm, too much of a rude awakening) and my breasts will wake me up. They don't get rock hard, but kind of feel stingy around the nipple when they are full. I also have small breasts (think they are a B cup now, was an A pre-preggo). I think your breasts can get used to storing milk for longer. The important thing is to spread out your sessions gradually until one drops off then give your body time to get used to the new schedule and watch your output for 2 weeks before deciding to drop another.

[melbb]

I know you are doing what you feel is best for your baby, but I think we who have failed BF relationships and who pump can develop a bit of an obsession or even a martyr syndrome.

This is so true. BFing and trying to get it to work was an obsession with me, and in a sense pumping became an obsession, too. I felt like I would be a failure if I didn't pump, and I have felt like a failure because I cannot pump enough to meet her needs, so I had to try to increase my output. But I couldn't. I feel like since I failed at BFing, it doesn't seem right to "fail" at pumping, too. But, I know I have done my best, so I try not to beat myself up about it anymore.

[BakerALM]

Just thought I would share a bit more of my story...


Here is how I increased my supply...
I had supply problems right from the beginning. I was told not to pump or BF since I was having soooo much pain for 2 days to let my nipples just "rest" when I was only 3 days pp. As you can tell that was very bad advice!!! I was so engorged I sware they were going to burst! By the time I got some good advise my supply was almost non existant! (Which did not help the BFing relationship!!!!:irked:) I pumped and pumped and pumped and managed to get my supply up to 15-18 oz but it just sat there for weeks! I was getting frustrated and more pumping did not seem to be the answer and was not working anyway. So I began upgrading pumps. I went from a Ameda hospital grade duel electric to a Medela Lactina and now I have settled on a Symphony. My supply increased substanially everytime I changed pumps. That was the only thing I changed! My theory is (in laymens terms) that each pump stimulates the nipple differently and that difference just told my brain that something new was going on and it should respond with more milk! I think I just got de-sensitised to each pump.

I was steadly increasing in supply since I got the symphony and was creaping into the 40oz/day range when I began to have consistent trouble with plugged ducts. I have since caped my supply at around 35oz since I found if I go over that I have to pump alot more frequently or I get stining nipples and plugged ducts. :fever:

Currently I am 6.5 months pp and am working on dropping pumps. I am down to 5/day with a slight drop in supply. I never night pump unless my daugher wakes and I do not pump to a set schedule. I just listen to my body and pump when I can fit it in, within reason. I always keep track of my output and the time I pumped so I can aim for the time for my next pump, but most of the time I am within an hr each way of my goal time. Also never pump a certain amount of time, I just pump until my breasts feel totally empty. So sometime it takes 15min and sometimes 45. Oh and I almost forgot to say that I always use compressions to empty my breasts or else I am plugged up like CRAZY!! Also I really never look at the clock or it makes me insane! :wink

Andrea :loveeyes:

[melbb]

So I began upgrading pumps. I went from a Ameda hospital grade duel electric to a Medela Lactina and now I have settled on a Symphony. My supply increased substanially everytime I changed pumps. That was the only thing I changed! My theory is (in laymens terms) that each pump stimulates the nipple differently and that difference just told my brain that something new was going on and it should respond with more milk! I think I just got de-sensitised to each pump.

I was steadly increasing in supply since I got the symphony and was creaping into the 40oz/day range when I began to have consistent trouble with plugged ducts. I have since caped my supply at around 35oz since I found if I go over that I have to pump alot more frequently or I get stining nipples and plugged ducts. :fever:


Hmmm....I wonder if that would make a difference. I started with the Lactina out of the hospital, then switched to a Symphony after 1 week, then gave up the Symphony at 1 month because DD started BFing. Then she started refusing at 4 months and I used the PIS. Then to try to get my supply up, I rented a Symphony and pumped 9x/day (was pumping 6x). It didn't make a difference. I wonder if the 2 pumps are too similar? I don't know. I am getting close enough to a year that I plan to start dropping pumps. I just can't do this forever. I will pump 1-2x/day after a year and the rest will have to be formula. Unfortunately she isn't too into solids.

[BakerALM]

Just wanted to add a note about the pump switching I mentioned above..

my supply increased at first dramtically (a few oz) then slowly after that over weeks. Then I would change pumps again when the increase stopped totally.

Andrea

[amybw]

Hello mammas!

I am new to bfing and already have challenges...

I havent had a chance to read everything yet, but i do have a question.

Is it normal to pump different amounts?
For example, i just pumped 3 oz from the left and 1 ounce from the right- in the same amount of time.
I almost always get more from the left than the right.
I am just afraid something is wrong with righty.

thanks!

:)
Amy

[BakerALM]

I am new to bfing and already have challenges...


Hi Amy,

I see your new babe was born just about 2 weeks ago, CONGRADULATIONS!!!.
I want to just add quickly that you really DON'T want to join our tribe unless you ABSOLUTELY HAVE to! TRUST ME it totally sucks! But if it is your absolutly last resort we will be here to help and support you completely!




Is it normal to pump different amounts?
For example, i just pumped 3 oz from the left and 1 ounce from the right- in the same amount of time.
I almost always get more from the left than the right.
I am just afraid something is wrong with righty.


As for normal it really depends upon your body. My output is completely even on both sides but inorder to get the same amount I sometimes have to pump longer on my left. It has issues; takes longer to let down, needs extream compressions to empty complelely and is prone to pluged ducts. Each breast has a completly different dynamic for flow.

I think each woman is different. The importain part is that each breast is draining completely else you could end up with problems with supply and/or plugged ducts/mastitis.

Get a Good LC (if you don't already have one) if you are having BFing problems at such an early stage!

Best of luck,
Andrea

[GooeyRN]

Hi Amy!!

Congratulations on having a baby! It is very normal to have different amounts of milk come out of each breast. Mine were never equal. My right breast has always been slightly larger than the left. My right breast has always made SIGNIFICANTLY more milk than the left side. Its been like this for the last 10 months. Try to do some manual expression after pumping on your lesser producing side just to make sure there isn't anymore milk in there. Also feel it to make sure it is soft like the other side. If you don't get anymore milk by manual expression and it is soft, it just may be normal for you.

I agree with the pp you REALLY DON'T want to be joining this tribe yet. (hopefully never! Its not that we don't want you, we just want to see you have that BFing relationship we are missing out on, and we want your life to be easier than ours.) If your baby is only 2 weeks old its not too late to get them to the breast! You have a decent chance until they are around 2 months old. Its possible even until 3 months, and I heard of a 4 month old getting it. By then babies are pretty set in their ways, and its the same time many moms become exhausted with EPing. Its a long hard road! Keep in mind your baby will become mobile and sleeping less in a few months, which adds challanges to keeping them safe while pumping. PLEASE see one or two LC's and go to a LLL meeting before going down this path of EPing. Its very tiring and should be a last resort.

My baby and I had some major BFing issues, (she was a few weeks early, low birth weight, jaundiced and very difficult to wake to feed) and I screwed things up. I didn't realize what I was in for with pumping long term. I wish I could go back! Feel free to PM me if you would like to hear how I screwed things up and I would be happy to let you know what I should/shouldn't have done to avoid EPing.

Congrats again on becoming a mama!

[Swirly]

Uggh, ladies - my boobs have been so sore lately. It is making it mentally difficult to continue pumping. I am hoping it is a temporary thing, but am curious if anyone might know why this would happen all of a sudden after so many months. When the pump starts on my nipples, even at a low setting, it just hurts terribly! I also feel full more often, as if my breasts are not emptying in the 20 minutes I have during the daytime pumps. (I am going to change the membranes today to see if that helps with that particular problem).

Boy, I was so hoping I could get this baby to transition to the breast by now :(

[GooeyRN]

Uggh, ladies - my boobs have been so sore lately. It is making it mentally difficult to continue pumping. I am hoping it is a temporary thing, but am curious if anyone might know why this would happen all of a sudden after so many months. When the pump starts on my nipples, even at a low setting, it just hurts terribly! I also feel full more often, as if my breasts are not emptying in the 20 minutes I have during the daytime pumps. (I am going to change the membranes today to see if that helps with that particular problem).

Boy, I was so hoping I could get this baby to transition to the breast by now :(

Changing the membranes and tubing would be a good idea. Even a microscopic tear can cause problems. Do you feel lumpy at all? Maybe you have plugged ducts? Is the pain localized? If changing the membranes and tubing doesn't help, maybe switch pumps. Some people develop pump resistance after several months. Good luck and keep us informed!

[mamanurse]

I hate to say this Swirly, but maybe it's AF. My breasts/nipples hurt for about a week before AF comes. I also notice a drop in supply and pop fenugreek for the last half of my cycle.

Gooey- How's it going? Did you get up the guts to try spreading out your evening pumpings? And, I've been meaning to ask you what area you worked in when you were working as an RN?

[bri276]

I'm going to be buying some Fenugreek today. My output suddenly dropped a few days ago and hasn't gone back up.
Actually, I'm still making the same amount 20/day, but I have to pump more and longer to get there, it's really annoying because I was happy and comfortable at 4x per day. My breasts are no longer full in the morning, (I always sleep at least 9 hrs), and I'm down about an ounce total if I pump the normal duration. I really hope the Fenugreek works, because at 13 months I'm just not about to start Reglan or Dom, don't have the $$ for it anyways. I'm also going to make some oatmeal cookies today, thankfully the weather is cold enough to bake!

[GooeyRN]

Gooey- How's it going? Did you get up the guts to try spreading out your evening pumpings? And, I've been meaning to ask you what area you worked in when you were working as an RN?

I spread out a little... About 10-11 pumps a day instead of 12. But I am still dropping in supply. And I am having problems again with milk not wanting to come out. That happens whenever I fall asleep pumping. :bang

My last job was in med/surg. It was a general floor for all ages. (no seperate peds unit or anything. Three week old babies sharing a room with a 98 year old sometimes) It was a small rural hospital. Before there I worked in a large psych hospital primarily in either the adolescent or childrens units, but I voluntarily floated to all of the other adult units as well. I left there shortly after I moved and got married. I loved that job, I could have retired from there. Before then I was an LPN and worked LTC.

Mamanurse- What area do you work?

[BakerALM]

I spread out a little... About 10-11 pumps a day instead of 12. But I am still dropping in supply. And I am having problems again with milk not wanting to come out. That happens whenever I fall asleep pumping. :bang



I have the same problem with the milk not comming out unless I use compressions. Just to be clear I basically squeese the milk out of my left breast otherwise I am lumpy and totally underproducing. In the end it leads to plugged ducts in that breast. Even with STRONG compressions it takes about twice as long to empty as my right. Because of that I cannot sleep while I pump. :(

Here is my method of strong compressions that works best for me..
I hold the horn between my poiner and middle finger (like you would a cigarette) and I cup the breast and horn with the rest of my hand. Then I move around the breast and squeese the milk out like you would toothpaste , sliding from the chest wall out using my pinky, ring and espeically my thumb to squeese the respecive breast. When I find I lump I work that area. It works best when you are in the middle of a let down. Also I find that with this method on each breast I have a ton of let downs, I would say at least 10 or more in 30 mins. This method I found also works well to clear a plugged duct.

Best of luck! Would love to hear how it goes.:thumb

Andrea
Eping since Feb 2006

[mamanurse]

Gooey- Is it kinda like you're not getting a let down? I don't know how to stimulate one if that's the case. Sorry you're dropping in supply. I suppose you're trying all the usual suspects (fenugreek, oatmeal, etc...)

I'm currently going for my BSN right now and hope to work in end-of-life care. I have been on a ped. floor and a renal/general med-surg floor. We'll see where I can land a job with daytime hours in January:wink

[mama-a-llama]

So, dropping pumps. . . how do you do it? Do you try to keep your remaining sessions pretty much evenly spaced? Or do you just leave a gap where the session was?

I've decided to drop pumps even though I know supply will suffer. I can't keep up 8x day, and was planning to quit altogether when he's 12 mos (10 mos of eping). But then I thought if I cut my pumping in half, and supplement by choice, I can keep that up for a while. Some mm is better than none.

So, here's where I am now: pumping at approximately 8, 10:30, 1, 3:15, 6:15, 8:45, 10:45, 3:45.

I think I'd like to get to something like 8:30, 1, 6:15, 10. How long do I stay at each number of sessions before dropping another?

[melbb]

So, dropping pumps. . . how do you do it? Do you try to keep your remaining sessions pretty much evenly spaced? Or do you just leave a gap where the session was?

I've decided to drop pumps even though I know supply will suffer. I can't keep up 8x day, and was planning to quit altogether when he's 12 mos (10 mos of eping). But then I thought if I cut my pumping in half, and supplement by choice, I can keep that up for a while. Some mm is better than none.

So, here's where I am now: pumping at approximately 8, 10:30, 1, 3:15, 6:15, 8:45, 10:45, 3:45.

I think I'd like to get to something like 8:30, 1, 6:15, 10. How long do I stay at each number of sessions before dropping another?

People have different ways of doing it and I don't have any experience, but if it were me, I would increase the spacings between pumpings so that one drops out. SO you are mostly pumping every 2.5 hours except for your middle of the night pump, so I would immediately go to every 3 hours. So pump at 8am, 11, 2pm, 5, 8, 11 and 4 am. Then you would be at 7 sessions. Then I would increase to every 3.5 hours, but leave the 11 pm and 4am pumps as is. Then increase to every 4 hours, still leaving the 11pm and 4am pumps as is. Keep doing that until the 8 pm pump is nearly merged with the 11 pm pump and "drops". Then you would be at 6 pumps. You should give your body a few days to adjust, especially if you are susceptible to plugged ducts. Then try dropping other sessions in a similar manner.

[OGirlieMama]

I have about 2 minutes before my babies wake up, but I wanted to say hello and I just read this whole thread while pumping! I am so excited to find other EPers on MDC, though I wish none of us had to have that title.

My quick story is my twin girls were born at 29 weeks on January 10th - 1 vaginal, 1 c-section. One (Kate) was intubated, one (Lilly) was on CPAP, and they worked their way off, with Lilly coming home at 63 days scott-free and Kate coming home on Oxygen 2 days later. I pumped throughout the NICU stay, and they nursed a little, but not very effectively. When they came home I was overwhelmed, thrushy, exhausted, the victim of painful latches and teeny tiny mouths, plus I would literally run out of time in the day to nurse them both sequentially (they weren't good enough at it to tandem) and then pump, and then feed myself a little before starting all over. I dropped like 20 pounds in 2-3 weeks. I had a really lovely LC but I just couldn't manage it so I have been EPing since then. THe girls are big (15 pounds 13 ounces and 15 pounds 7 ounces) and strong and healthy! Kate has been off oxygen since May. I am persistently sad about losing the BFing relationship, but I treasure the memories I have of BFing my teeny girlies in the NICU, at least.

Anyway, nice to meet you all, and I hope we can keep this thread alive (but wish we didn't have to...)

[mamanurse]

:w I'm glad you found us. Congratulations on the birth of your girls!

[mom2ken1cam2]

So, dropping pumps. . . how do you do it? Do you try to keep your remaining sessions pretty much evenly spaced? Or do you just leave a gap where the session was?

I've decided to drop pumps even though I know supply will suffer. I can't keep up 8x day, and was planning to quit altogether when he's 12 mos (10 mos of eping). But then I thought if I cut my pumping in half, and supplement by choice, I can keep that up for a while. Some mm is better than none.

So, here's where I am now: pumping at approximately 8, 10:30, 1, 3:15, 6:15, 8:45, 10:45, 3:45.

I think I'd like to get to something like 8:30, 1, 6:15, 10. How long do I stay at each number of sessions before dropping another?
I am so interested in hearing how to do this! You go mama for sticking with 8 pumps a day! I'm a low supply mama and EPer for 5 months and I pump 7x/day. I would really like to drop my 11pm pump ( I usually only get about 2 ozs at that time of night) and hope to not decrease my supply much. So tia for all of the advice!

[BakerALM]

So, dropping pumps. . . how do you do it? Do you try to keep your remaining sessions pretty much evenly spaced? Or do you just leave a gap where the session was?

So, here's where I am now: pumping at approximately 8, 10:30, 1, 3:15, 6:15, 8:45, 10:45, 3:45.

I think I'd like to get to something like 8:30, 1, 6:15, 10. How long do I stay at each number of sessions before dropping another?

Hi Mama-a-llama!

I just did this, well actually I am in the middle of transitioning from 5-4 pumps/day. I went up to 8/day for about a months to increase supply so I had a bit of a surplus (approx. 3-5oz/day extra) just to give me a bit of a buffer and start a small freezer stock. Then I began dropping pumps.

Here is how I did it...

My schedule is never rigid. I have a goal time and usually get the pump in either 1 hr before or after the goal. Since life is so crazy this works best for me. So keeping that in mind I just started spacing all my pumps out, not dropping one pump but spreading them all out a bit. So in your case I would say try this schedule...
8, 11, 2, 5,8,11,3:45
During the day this schedule is approximatly 3hr between pumps with one waking at night at your normal time. After say 2 weeks or so, only once you see your supply stablizing for atleast a few days (and you are happy with the new level) then spread out the day pumps again. Say to this new schedule.
8, 11:30, 3, 6:30, 10, 3:45
And wait a few weeks.

Next, If I was you I would want to loose the 3:45am pump ASAP!:wink So you might want to try dropping it during the next cycle. If I was you I would try to move it slowly over say 2 weeks closer to the 8am pump so that you can see if you are in a ton of pain, if you get plugged ducts from staying too full for too long or if you take a huge cut in supply. (On a side note, I noticed the total of my midnight pump plus the morning pump was less than when i only pumped in the morning. Anyone know why this is so?)

You just continue spreading out the pumps thoughout the day until you get to a schedule that works best for you and your body. :p

As for me I am hovering between 4-5 pumps and no night pumps unless my daughter wakes. I just listen to my body, for example if my breasts start to tingle and are feeling uncomfortably full and it is not yet time to pump I will pump then and then spread the rest of the day out accordingly. I never really pump to a schedule I just listen to my body and pump when it tells me to pump. This had worked very well now that I know the signals to look for.

OH, one more very importaint thing! My supply initally dropped each time i dropped a pump and then by the end of the 2 weeks was back up to the orignal level (or higher)! The way that I found to keep the supply while dropping pumps is to pump longer at each session. Since my breasts are a lot fuller it take longer to drain, I cant tell you how long since I never look at the clock while pumping (it makes me insane to watch the minutes pass) so I just pump until my breasts are REALLY REALLY empty.

Also keep track of your total output, how much you pump at each session and what time you pump so you can track your progress.

Not to take you away from Mothering but if you are looking for a great forum only for EPers check out my signature.)

Best of luck!
I would love to hear how it goes!:thumb

Andrea EPing for Lola since Feb 06

[mama-a-llama]

Yeah, I did post on EPers too, but strangely only got one answer. Maybe my title wasn't interesting enough :shrug
I've tried just cutting one session. I've kind of cheated and not cut the same session every day though. I want to cut the 10:30 am one first, which I did yesterday, but on Sat cut the 6 pm to go to a wedding, and today am cutting the 3 pm so I can got out with family. After today I'm hoping to settle into a routine.
So in your case I would say try this schedule...
8, 11, 2, 5,8,11,3:45
My problem is that since ds has tube feeds at 9, 12, 3, 6, I like to pump during his feeding (with the exception of the morning/lunchtime ones where I'm usually eating while he eats). It's nice to have us both tied to a pump at the same time :lol so that we're free to do whatever the rest of the time. And we are usually still eating dinner at 8.
Once I got to this:

8, 11:30, 3, 6:30, 10, 3:45
it would be okay. If I don't like the results of just cutting, I might try this approach.

Next, If I was you I would want to loose the 3:45am pump ASAP!:wink
I do want to. But I'm kind of afraid that will really kill my supply. I would probably try to loose the 10/11 pm next, so I can get more sleep before getting up. As it is, I tend to not get to bed before midnight--but a lot of that is hanging on MDC after I'm done pumping :wink

[mamanurse]

I honestly don't know how I cut back from 10-12 pumps per day to 5. I used to pump every 2-3 hours and then I guess I started stretching it out. When I wanted to cut out the nighttime pump, I just waited for my breasts to wake me up and then I'd go pump. It eventually got to where I can go for 9 hours without pumping, but I'm a loaded weapon in the morning.:lol

[mom2ken1cam2]

mama-a-llama

I know all about the staying up until midnight on MDC...I'm addicted (in a good way) This weekend I tried stretching out my pumps to 4 hrs one time a day which left me with only 6 pumps/day as opposed to 7 b/c I don't pump in the middle of the night any more! It gave me more rest and I feel like I've made more milk this way. I haven't recorded, but I want to do that tomorrow so I know for sure how much I'm pumping, but ds only took one supplement bottle today and he usually has 2! WOOHOO! I did pupm for longer so I'm sure that helped as well! Keep us posted as to how things are going! Happy Pumping!

[Swirly]

I hate to say this Swirly, but maybe it's AF. My breasts/nipples hurt for about a week before AF comes. I also notice a drop in supply and pop fenugreek for the last half of my cycle.



Bah, you were so spot on with this assessment. AF returned this past weekend, while we were having a very stressful visit with my in-laws, to boot. The period, the stressful family stuff, the crappy diet, and missing two pumps while away did further damge to my supply.

I have consistently pumped 33-36 ounces for the past 5 months or so, doing 5-6 pumping sessions per day. Aurora has bad GERD and an eating aversion, so she usually only took 20-24 ounces per day. I got sick of my tiny freezer overflowing and of tossing milk, so stopped storing most of the excess not long ago too. Anyway, now all of a sudden, she is eating ~30 ounces per day, and I am making only 28-30!! Will she seriously require a supplement after all this time? I find that idea horrible, after all this time of breast milk only.

Can I increase my supply this late in the game, and if so, how? I bought fenugreek and am taking it now. I always eat oatmeal every day. I am drinking more fluids. I went back to six pumps a day after doing five for a while. I really can't add more pumps, at least not on any sort of long-term basis. My baby is *very* high needs and very active and I have no help at all, so the times I do pump when I am home alone with her make her very sad.

We have no spare money due to my staying home now, so a new pump is also not an option.

What can I do, and how soon should I see results from the Fenugreek if it works?

[GooeyRN]

Bah, you were so spot on with this assessment. AF returned this past weekend, while we were having a very stressful visit with my in-laws, to boot. The period, the stressful family stuff, the crappy diet, and missing two pumps while away did further damge to my supply.

I have consistently pumped 33-36 ounces for the past 5 months or so, doing 5-6 pumping sessions per day. Aurora has bad GERD and an eating aversion, so she usually only took 20-24 ounces per day. I got sick of my tiny freezer overflowing and of tossing milk, so stopped storing most of the excess not long ago too. Anyway, now all of a sudden, she is eating ~30 ounces per day, and I am making only 28-30!! Will she seriously require a supplement after all this time? I find that idea horrible, after all this time of breast milk only.

Can I increase my supply this late in the game, and if so, how? I bought fenugreek and am taking it now. I always eat oatmeal every day. I am drinking more fluids. I went back to six pumps a day after doing five for a while. I really can't add more pumps, at least not on any sort of long-term basis. My baby is *very* high needs and very active and I have no help at all, so the times I do pump when I am home alone with her make her very sad.

We have no spare money due to my staying home now, so a new pump is also not an option.

What can I do, and how soon should I see results from the Fenugreek if it works?

Swirly,

Taking Calcium and Magnesium during AF and right before helps some people to not experience such a sudden drop in their supply. Try drinking a dark beer everyday to see if that helps. Avoid any kind of mint, sage, and citrus, since they lower supply. Its so hard to pump when we are alone with our babies! I know how that is. Especially when they are high needs. My daughter was high needs, too. (she is getting easier as she gets older, thankfully!) But lucky for me, at that age (5-6 mo) she was still taking short frequent naps. You will probably laugh when I say this... Do you have a decent hand pump? Like a Avent Isis? If so, wear her on your back while walking around the house to keep her happy and pump for a few minutes (enough to get one letdown, anyway) while walking to help your supply. If you can tolerate it, add a middle of the night pump for a few nights. Prolactin levels are highest overnight. I hope you can increase your supply some so you don't need to supplement. Good luck.

[Swirly]

GooeyRN, thank you so much for your ideas and support. I have the hand pump that comes with the Medela, but have never tried it. I may just do that today though. I also did not know about the calcium and magnesium, or about avoiding the foods/herbs you mentioned. I do pump at 3:45 am every night, but this weekend may add a second pumping in the night time. Also, this weekend, I may be able to pump a few times extra, if we stay near home most of the weekend. I think I read that even a few minutes is better than nothing. I have been pumping for 25-30 minutes per session as well, rather than my usual 23-ish.

[mamanurse]

Sorry to hear about your supply drop. Mine also takes a steep dive leading up to AF and for the first few days of it. I take a lactation blend herbal supplement when I think AF is going to show up and it seemed to help last month.

Also, it's not too late to increase your supply. More frequent pumpings coupled with fenugreek and oatmeal will probably help.

[peytonsmomma]

Hi ladies...I was wondering if I could join you. I am a "most of the time" Ep'er. (I still like to get DD to the breast at least a couple times a day). She is 4.5 months old, but I've only been ep'ing for 2.5. We were supplementing with formula for the first 2 months of her life, however, she started having major issues with it, so I decided she was only going to get breastmilk.

How do you ladies do it? How do you find the energy to keep up the pumping? I plan on doing it until the pump breaks, but man...I'm just exhausted!

I look forward to getting to know everyone here!

[mamanurse]

Peyton's mom- I'm glad you decided to go with breastmilk all the way. Is there a particular reason why your babe doesn't do all her feedings at the breast?

BTW. I like the name Peyton.

[jlpetitte]

I know I am sorta jumping in here, but I am hoping you wise women could help me out. I have never pumped myself yet (no children), but a good friend of mine is pumping exclusively. I don't exactly know why, but I think she just hasn't had much support really and her baby didn't latch well, so pumping seemed easier... Anyway, she has had a blister on the side of her nipple and now she has a cracked nipple and her milk is pink (from the blood I suppose). She asks me for advice because I know some about BFing, but don't know much about this. Any suggestions? I recommended maybe a bigger flange, but she doesn't think thats the problem. Her baby is 4 weeks and she is using a medela pump- hospital grade. She is not real motivated so I gave her a number to a help line, but I don't think she is motivated enough to seek out a LC, but I really don't want to see her switch to formula.

[peytonsmomma]

Peyton's mom- I'm glad you decided to go with breastmilk all the way. Is there a particular reason why your babe doesn't do all her feedings at the breast?

BTW. I like the name Peyton.

Thanks. :)

After ditching bottles and formula, I tried strictly bfing, but we ended up taking her to the er with dehydration issues. She wasn't clinically dehydrated, but it was enough to scare me! I've been mostly pumping ever since.

[Swirly]

I know I am sorta jumping in here, but I am hoping you wise women could help me out. I have never pumped myself yet (no children), but a good friend of mine is pumping exclusively. I don't exactly know why, but I think she just hasn't had much support really and her baby didn't latch well, so pumping seemed easier... Anyway, she has had a blister on the side of her nipple and now she has a cracked nipple and her milk is pink (from the blood I suppose). She asks me for advice because I know some about BFing, but don't know much about this. Any suggestions? I recommended maybe a bigger flange, but she doesn't think thats the problem. Her baby is 4 weeks and she is using a medela pump- hospital grade. She is not real motivated so I gave her a number to a help line, but I don't think she is motivated enough to seek out a LC, but I really don't want to see her switch to formula.

It totally sounds like she needs the bigger flanges. I had cracked and bleeding nipples in the beginning with my Medela advanced PIS also, and going to the 27 mm flanges fixed the problem. Left alone, this problem will decrease her milk supply as well (assuming this is what is causing it). It is a relatively cheap experiemnt for her to try to see if it helps (like $12).

[nostrow]

So I finally finished reading all the pages and now I've got a flurry of thoughts running through my brain.
1. I am absolutely in awe of all of you fabulous women! When I start to hate my pump I just think of the great company I'm keeping with you other ep'ers and it renews me. Way to go!
2. I am a bit peeved that I was misdirected/gave up too easily on Zoe when she stopped nursing at @3months....

So I have a couple of questions. Are any of you with older babes, Zoe is 7 months, giving any foods other than mm? Zoe seems to REALLY want to eat and we've done only Avacado and sweet potatoes, both of which she really loved. What else can I/should I do? We have a bit of a wheat intolerance in Annika so I don't want to rush the grains with Zoe....

My other question is, is there any hope of trying to get Zoe back to the breast at this late stage in the game? I've been offering it periodically and while she no longer screams when she sees it (I was starting to get a bit offended) she thinks they are for using her new teeth on!:dizzy: I'm wondering if I should just resign myself to pumping for as long as I can. In that same vein, do you think I can increase my supply a bit now at 7months? I don't make enough for her feedings (she is @24lbs now!) and I'm always a couple of oz. short....

Back to work.

Keep on keepin on momma's

Nikki

[Swirly]

Nikki, I am trying periodically to get my babe on the breast, but as of the past couple of weeks she won't even seem to consider it anymore. Prior to that, I could periodically get her to latch and maybe even nurse for a few seconds to a couple of minutes once in a while. She had tons of latch problems in the beginning (neck and mouth problems, poor suck reflex, etc), then nursed for a while with a nipple shield, but then her GERD got really bad and she developed an aversion to my breast and stopped altogether. I always hoped and believed we would transition to breast completely, but I think I have recently given up hope. Maybe someone out there will have a positive story for us.

As far as solids go, we have allowed her to taste a variety of veggies and fruits, but she doesn't swallow yet. We are using a self-feeding approach, rather than giving her pureed foods. She likes to taste stuff, but mama milk is all she needs for nutrition, so we are just taking our time.

[GooeyRN]

So I finally finished reading all the pages and now I've got a flurry of thoughts running through my brain.
1. I am absolutely in awe of all of you fabulous women! When I start to hate my pump I just think of the great company I'm keeping with you other ep'ers and it renews me. Way to go!
2. I am a bit peeved that I was misdirected/gave up too easily on Zoe when she stopped nursing at @3months....

So I have a couple of questions. Are any of you with older babes, Zoe is 7 months, giving any foods other than mm? Zoe seems to REALLY want to eat and we've done only Avacado and sweet potatoes, both of which she really loved. What else can I/should I do? We have a bit of a wheat intolerance in Annika so I don't want to rush the grains with Zoe....

My other question is, is there any hope of trying to get Zoe back to the breast at this late stage in the game? I've been offering it periodically and while she no longer screams when she sees it (I was starting to get a bit offended) she thinks they are for using her new teeth on!:dizzy: I'm wondering if I should just resign myself to pumping for as long as I can. In that same vein, do you think I can increase my supply a bit now at 7months? I don't make enough for her feedings (she is @24lbs now!) and I'm always a couple of oz. short....

Back to work.

Keep on keepin on momma's

Nikki

Hi Nikki!

My dd also completely quit nursing at 3 months. She was never very good at it though. She is now 10.5 months. She still wont even attempt to latch since. :( You are doing good by pumping for your baby. Mine isn't into solid foods. She will eat finger foods (cheerio's, bits of bread, bits of veggies, etc) but will not eat from a spoon. She grabs the spoon out of my hand and throws it on the floor. :irked:


Hi Swirly! Thanks for replying to my thread on life with a baby. I guess you understand my frustrations trying to pump and deal with a high needs baby better than anyone! PPV to all!

[Swirly]

Gooey, I wish I could give you a hig. I think we both could use one. If you ever want to pm me or even call me and share the joys and frustrations, I am available.

[GooeyRN]

Thanks, Swirly!

[melbb]

Nikki,
My DD stopped BFing at 4 months and all she would do is scream at the sight of them. I kept trying periodically to latch her on, but it was too emotional so I didn't try much. Now at almost 10 months, she doesn't scream at me anymore, but she doesn't know what to do. She also has 6 teeth now and uses the nipple shield as a teether. I don't really have any advice as I have the same problem. I am too afraid to use the bare nipple and she only BF without a nipple shield for 1 week. I have pretty much given up. I think about trying, and then tell myself, what is the point? And now I am cutting back on pumps as I cannot keep up with this and she is approaching 1 year. I plan to pump 1x/day after a year. Other than that, she will get formula and solids.

You may be able to increase your supply. It is an individual thing. I personally could not increase my supply beyond about 26 oz/day, no matter what I did. So I have always had to supplement. If you want to try, use a good hospital pump and pump at least 8x/day and pump at least once in the middle of the night. Take herbs if you want and eat lots of oatmeal. I think oatmeal is the only thing that helps me at all. I get more for my midmorning pump because of it.

As for solids, Audrey will not self feed and has virutally no pincer grasp. She gets pureed food, mostly fruit. She is not overly fond of veggies and meat, although she is showing more interest now. She also eats yogurt and cheese. Since you have allergy concerns, I would take it slow. Wait at least 4 days before trying a new food. I had to do this with Audrey as DH has allergies and I was worried about it. I only started out sporadically giving her solids (at little over 6 months). She wasn't eating regularly until about 7.5 months and now she eats 3 meals a day. Her milk consumption went down from 38-40 oz to 32 oz.

[kathteach]

Bumping.

I have recently spaced out my pumps every four hours and go five and a half hours without pumping at night. It's helped a lot with my sanity. My supply has dropped a bit, but I'm still making extra.

Does anyone know if I could build my supply back up if I wanted? Would more pumps later do it if I needed it? Or is it once you go down, you're down?

[jarynsmom06]

Ok, so I don't really belong here because I don't EP, however I am having some issues with pumping and I figured this is probably the best place to come. I have gotten some good advice in the BF challenges to try and increase my supply, but I have a question about pumping. I work 10-12 hours at a time 3 days a week. I work in an ER and sometimes it is hard to get away. I want to try to get back on track and pump every 2 hours. If I pump that often now, I may get an ounce. I am using a Medels PIS advance that my sister gave me. I haven't had anything replaced and it is a year and a half old. She didn't use it quite as much as me I don't think. Anyway....My question is this. If I pump every two hours 1) how long should I pump? ( I usually pump for 10 min., after this there is nothing coming out. 2) If I still pump a few minutes after nothing is coming out, will this make my breast produce more 3) Do you think a handheld pump may work better? I can't afford another pump right now, we are really having trouble financially, which I think is the culpret of the supply drop (stress) but I do have a WIC appt thursday and I thought about asking them for one. I already checked with my ins co. they don't help at all :irked: I am really having a hard time with this becaue we have had to suppliment, I am not able to pump enough for him to have when I am away and he is starting to take more at each feeding. He gets enough when he nurses but I can't keep up with him. Every time he is given formula I feel like a bad mom and I want to run and cry.

I took fenugreek for a month and it didn't do anything. I have drank MM tea, eaten oatmeal ( althought I only did that a few times because I was too tired to make it :duck: ) ummm...I haven't pumped while he is eating though, I keep wanting to do that, but I always forget and when he gets started he gets really mad if I make him stop, plus he is 5 months old and at the stage of looking around and wanting to stick his fingers in his mouth too, so I have to hold his hand to keep him from doing that. SO....this is my story and anyone willing to help me I would be greatly appreciative. I am at a loss from here. TIA

[mama-a-llama]

sorry to be sort of terse, i'm pak
If I pump every two hours 1) how long should I pump? ( I usually pump for 10 min., after this there is nothing coming out.
at 2 hours, 10-15 min seems reasonable

2) If I still pump a few minutes after nothing is coming out, will this make my breast produce more
yes. the signs in lactation room at hospital when i was first pumping said pump 2 min past nothing coming out.
3) Do you think a handheld pump may work better?
dunno. works worse for me for ep'ing, but was adequate for occasional pumping. some moms like them better
Every time he is given formula I feel like a bad mom and I want to run and cry. :hug

I took fenugreek for a month and it didn't do anything. I have drank MM tea, eaten oatmeal ( althought I only did that a few times because I was too tired to make it :duck: )
check out the end of this post (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showpost.php?p=4172120&postcount=20). and this. (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showpost.php?p=4172135&postcount=21) yes, it's from vax forum, but has good nutritional suggestions for lactation.

[jarynsmom06]

Thank you mama-a-llama...I will be going to the health food store tomorrow to get all that good stuff. I tell you MT is a smart lady. Thanks again...and cross your fingers for me...

[kathteach]

Just thought I would add this link, it's an interesting blog and motivates me to keep pumping. http://www.pumpingrules.blogspot.com/

[mama-a-llama]

What bottle brush do you all use? We've been using one that has sponge on the end. I like how well it seems to clean, but am nervous about bacteria and it wears out quickly. We have a Gerber one now, that is just bristles. I'm hoping it will last longer and clean well, but I don't know how to tell.

[GooeyRN]

I use playtex drop in's so I don't wash bottles. (baby got hooked on those nipples, and wont accept any others) I use the brush that came with Avent bottles to wash my pump parts. It works well. I boil it daily and it still didn't fall apart. :thumb

[timneh_mom]

I just wanted to pop in here, I haven't EP'd but I have a friend who did for at least 18 months... just wanted to say,:Bow :bow :Bow :bow :Bow :bow for doing this for your babies!! My friend was so determined that her son would get her milk, she kept going... and avoided tons of foods because he had TONS of food allergies. I haven't talked to her in over a year, we kind of lost touch, but I believe he had grown out of some of them. He was allergic to hypoallergenic formula! This mama, she started eating meat again after being vegetarian for many, many years... because she didn't feel she could get enough protein with her limited diet. So hats off to all of you!! You deserve it. :thumb

[GooeyRN]

I just wanted to pop in here, I haven't EP'd but I have a friend who did for at least 18 months... just wanted to say,:Bow :bow :Bow :bow :Bow :bow for doing this for your babies!! My friend was so determined that her son would get her milk, she kept going... and avoided tons of foods because he had TONS of food allergies. I haven't talked to her in over a year, we kind of lost touch, but I believe he had grown out of some of them. He was allergic to hypoallergenic formula! This mama, she started eating meat again after being vegetarian for many, many years... because she didn't feel she could get enough protein with her limited diet. So hats off to all of you!! You deserve it. :thumb


:loveeyes: Thank you. :loveeyes:

[amybw]

I am not EP but i follow your news! You all are AWESOME!!!

sorry if i missed this, but what do you store your BM in? I want to start freezing some if i can.
thanks!
:)
Amy

[GooeyRN]

I am not EP but i follow your news! You all are AWESOME!!!

sorry if i missed this, but what do you store your BM in? I want to start freezing some if i can.
thanks!
:)
Amy

I use breast milk storage bags. I like the Lansinoh brand the best. They do not leak like the gerber and medela bags. They are also easier to seal. They take up much less room than bottles in the freezer. I have a harder time finding them, though.

[mamanurse]

Lansinoh bags rock. Gerber are next best followed by The First Years. Medela, strangely enough, makes the worst storage bags around.

[usolyfan]

[QUOTE=mama-a-llama;6125310] We've been using one that has sponge on the end. I like how well it seems to clean, but am nervous about bacteria and it wears out quickly.QUOTE]

We send ours through the dishwasher.

[margaretta]

I just finished reading this thread and found some great information here. It made me feel so much better to read other people's stories. I'm not quite an EPer, but I'm pumping a lot and at babe's insistince, not mine, so hopefully it's close enough to join in. If not I'll just read and not post ^_^

My name is Margaret and I've been almost exclusively pumping for DS for almost 5 months now. I also have a daughter (3) who just weaned. We were tandem nursing for a while which was a great experience. DS nursed without any problems for the first 2 months of life but he stopped and now will only nurse at night (really when he's asleep and going to go back to sleep - so occasional daytime nursing). One day he just refused to nurse (turns out he had an ear infection so it was probably painful). After it had been a loooong time and I was worried about him I gave him bottles of EBM (which I had done before without a problem) and he just wouldn't nurse after that. I kept offering the breast, but he kept refusing so I would give him a bottle. He doesn't get upset when I offer the breast but he won't nurse if he's awake. He usually nurses once or twice at night and I pump 5-6x during the day. It was really strange to me that he wouldn't nursle. I had an overactive let-down so the typical nipple confusion advice didn't apply. He would reject a normal breast and he would reject it if it was spraying him in the face. So now I'm pumping almost full time.

My supply seems to have plateaued at about 28-32 oz, but between nursing a bit at night and solids (which he loves) it seems to be enough without supplementing. I am trying to increase my supply but I'm not sure it's working. DS is a big big guy so I'm a bit worried that this isn't enough, but he has lots of chub so I think he's okay.

One of the most difficult things now is getting out. Everything takes so long with both kids that I don't seem to be able to do do much of anything before it's time to come home and get DS down for a nap and then pump again. If I do manage it, I end up really tired. Hopefully this will get easier as he gets older.

[GooeyRN]

I just finished reading this thread and found some great information here. It made me feel so much better to read other people's stories. I'm not quite an EPer, but I'm pumping a lot and at babe's insistince, not mine, so hopefully it's close enough to join in. If not I'll just read and not post ^_^

My name is Margaret and I've been almost exclusively pumping for DS for almost 5 months now. I also have a daughter (3) who just weaned. We were tandem nursing for a while which was a great experience. DS nursed without any problems for the first 2 months of life but he stopped and now will only nurse at night (really when he's asleep and going to go back to sleep - so occasional daytime nursing). One day he just refused to nurse (turns out he had an ear infection so it was probably painful). After it had been a loooong time and I was worried about him I gave him bottles of EBM (which I had done before without a problem) and he just wouldn't nurse after that. I kept offering the breast, but he kept refusing so I would give him a bottle. He doesn't get upset when I offer the breast but he won't nurse if he's awake. He usually nurses once or twice at night and I pump 5-6x during the day. It was really strange to me that he wouldn't nursle. I had an overactive let-down so the typical nipple confusion advice didn't apply. He would reject a normal breast and he would reject it if it was spraying him in the face. So now I'm pumping almost full time.

My supply seems to have plateaued at about 28-32 oz, but between nursing a bit at night and solids (which he loves) it seems to be enough without supplementing. I am trying to increase my supply but I'm not sure it's working. DS is a big big guy so I'm a bit worried that this isn't enough, but he has lots of chub so I think he's okay.

One of the most difficult things now is getting out. Everything takes so long with both kids that I don't seem to be able to do do much of anything before it's time to come home and get DS down for a nap and then pump again. If I do manage it, I end up really tired. Hopefully this will get easier as he gets older.

Hi Margaretta!

Im sorry to hear that you are having troubles with nursing. Pumping sure isn't fun, but atleast our babies get our milk. Im glad he will still nurse at night so you don't have to get up to pump to maintain your supply. I have been mostly EPing for 11 months now. DD was never a good nurser (I still had to pump after every feeding), and completely refused to even try after 3 months. It sounds like you are responding to the pump well. How long do you plan on bfing/pumping for?

[mamanurse]

Welcome Margaretta! Of course you can join your thread, but I must admit that I'm jealous your ds will nurse at all. I've been EP'ing for 10 months now and know it's no picnic.

Hi Gooey:loveeyes:

[GooeyRN]

Hi Gooey:loveeyes:

Hi mamanurse! Its nice to see you again!

[amybw]

IOne of the most difficult things now is getting out. Everything takes so long with both kids that I don't seem to be able to do do much of anything before it's time to come home and get DS down for a nap and then pump again. If I do manage it, I end up really tired. Hopefully this will get easier as he gets older.
Not an EPer but i SO understand that!
:hug

Hope it gets better!

[countrypopo]

Hi guys! I'm amother of 4 and having been pumping for 2 months. My baby is a 34weeker and in NICU she had stuggles and took the bottle first. It has been hard cause I have health problems myself and feel like my supply is dropping. I am taking Reglan and Feengreek also. So glad to see I'm not alone!

[GooeyRN]

Hi guys! I'm amother of 4 and having been pumping for 2 months. My baby is a 34weeker and in NICU she had stuggles and took the bottle first. It has been hard cause I have health problems myself and feel like my supply is dropping. I am taking Reglan and Feengreek also. So glad to see I'm not alone!

Hi Countrypopo! You are awesome that you are keeping up with the pumping with 4 kids! :twothumbs Welcome to our tribe!

[Sandstress]

Hi fellow pumpers.
I'm the EPing mom of a former preemie, and I just returned to work so I've got a whole other set of pumping issues now. I'm glad to see there other other EPers on this site. I have been pumping for 9 1/2 months now, and want to do it until at least the end of this cold/flu/RSV season. Kudos to all those moms out there who are managing to pump for YEARS!!!! That's awesome.

[GooeyRN]

Hi fellow pumpers.
I'm the EPing mom of a former preemie, and I just returned to work so I've got a whole other set of pumping issues now. I'm glad to see there other other EPers on this site. I have been pumping for 9 1/2 months now, and want to do it until at least the end of this cold/flu/RSV season. Kudos to all those moms out there who are managing to pump for YEARS!!!! That's awesome.

Hi Sandstress! Welcome to the tribe! Congrats on pumping so long. I am at 11.5 months now, and also plan on continuing atleast until the end of the cold/flu/rsv season. What will you be doing at work? Do you get regular breaks that you will be able to pump during? Do they provide you an area to pump, or are you on your own trying to find somewhere to pump?

[Sandstress]

Hi Sandstress! Welcome to the tribe! Congrats on pumping so long. I am at 11.5 months now, and also plan on continuing atleast until the end of the cold/flu/rsv season. What will you be doing at work? Do you get regular breaks that you will be able to pump during? Do they provide you an area to pump, or are you on your own trying to find somewhere to pump?

I work in a hospital, so I can go to the milk bank where they have 6 curtained areas with hospital grade pumps. It sometimes takes too long to go all the way there and back, so my department has an empty office that they said I can use (lock on the door, which I don't have.) I haven't used it yet, but can see where it will come in handy. I don't get regularly scheduled breaks, but can usually take half an hour to pump 1-2 a day, and I pump on the commute in and home, so that's at least 3 pumps for the day.

[counterGOPI]

mamas im so glad you have this thread.. i was hoping i could hop in to ask yo ua question. i do not pump personally but i volunteer at the hospital on our base to help new moms breastfeed. i have come across a few moms that want to BF but dont want baby at the breast..they just want to pump their milk and give it in a bottle.. i know thats not you guys but what kind of advice can i give those moms? does that work ok? can you keep up a supply when you EBP? thanks so much mamas!!! again you gals rock!!! :love

[GooeyRN]

mamas im so glad you have this thread.. i was hoping i could hop in to ask yo ua question. i do not pump personally but i volunteer at the hospital on our base to help new moms breastfeed. i have come across a few moms that want to BF but dont want baby at the breast..they just want to pump their milk and give it in a bottle.. i know thats not you guys but what kind of advice can i give those moms? does that work ok? can you keep up a supply when you EBP? thanks so much mamas!!! again you gals rock!!! :love

Everyone on this thread only pumps. We don't breastfeed from the tap. But that is not our choice. Our babies are unable to breastfeed for medical reasons, or just plain refuse to. So we pump our milk and either bottle feed or tube feed.

It is very possible to keep up your supply while just pumping. I do it. I have been exclusively pumping for 11.5 months now. Some women have a difficult time of maintaining their supply this way and need to give some formula. I do not recommend EPing. It is hard to do long term. Many women quit after only a few weeks, due to exhaustion and trouble pumping and taking care of baby at the same time.

Many women don't understand just how exhausting it is to Exclusively Pump. For the first 3 months, you have to pump every 2-3 hours, around the clock. Most babies get up several times a night to eat, so if a baby gets up 3 times to eat, and mom gets up 3-4 times a night to pump, that is about 6-7 night wakings for mom for the first 3 months! Its very difficult to pump when baby is awake, so most pump while baby naps during the day. So its very difficult to get any housework done, take any naps, cook anything, care for other children, etc. Its a huge PITA to leave the house. Not only do you have to pack the baby a bag with diapers and a change of clothes, you have to bring your pump and accessories, bottles of milk, bottles for the milk you pump while you are out, etc. It seems like I always have to stop what I am doing so I can go pump. It is such a huge commitment! I would love to be able to just lift my shirt and let my baby eat. I wouldn't spend 4 hours of my life a day pumping, I wouldn't have sore nipples, my house would be cleaner, I wouldn't have to life my life according to my pump schedule.....Life would be so easy.....

But if someone is really against breastfeeding from the tap, the baby will atleast be getting breastmilk which is a whole lot better than formula. Thats why all of us ladies go through the hassles. If someone is planning on pumping instead of breastfeeding for no medical reason/no nursing problems, I really don't think they know the huge commtment they are taking on. I sure hope they don't burn out and give up early.

[mamanurse]

:w Sandstress! I'm on my 10th month of E'ping and plan on doing it at least through March. Tells us your woes about pumping at work, maybe we'll have a solution. Or maybe we can just kvetch together.

[counterGOPI]

Everyone on this thread only pumps. We don't breastfeed from the tap. But that is not our choice. Our babies are unable to breastfeed for medical reasons, or just plain refuse to. So we pump our milk and either bottle feed or tube feed.

It is very possible to keep up your supply while just pumping. I do it. I have been exclusively pumping for 11.5 months now. Some women have a difficult time of maintaining their supply this way and need to give some formula. I do not recommend EPing. It is hard to do long term. Many women quit after only a few weeks, due to exhaustion and trouble pumping and taking care of baby at the same time.

Many women don't understand just how exhausting it is to Exclusively Pump. For the first 3 months, you have to pump every 2-3 hours, around the clock. Most babies get up several times a night to eat, so if a baby gets up 3 times to eat, and mom gets up 3-4 times a night to pump, that is about 6-7 night wakings for mom for the first 3 months! Its very difficult to pump when baby is awake, so most pump while baby naps during the day. So its very difficult to get any housework done, take any naps, cook anything, care for other children, etc. Its a huge PITA to leave the house. Not only do you have to pack the baby a bag with diapers and a change of clothes, you have to bring your pump and accessories, bottles of milk, bottles for the milk you pump while you are out, etc. It seems like I always have to stop what I am doing so I can go pump. It is such a huge commitment! I would love to be able to just lift my shirt and let my baby eat. I wouldn't spend 4 hours of my life a day pumping, I wouldn't have sore nipples, my house would be cleaner, I wouldn't have to life my life according to my pump schedule.....Life would be so easy.....

But if someone is really against breastfeeding from the tap, the baby will atleast be getting breastmilk which is a whole lot better than formula. Thats why all of us ladies go through the hassles. If someone is planning on pumping instead of breastfeeding for no medical reason/no nursing problems, I really don't think they know the huge commtment they are taking on. I sure hope they don't burn out and give up early.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for your honest and wonderful response :love

[Sandstress]

:w Sandstress! I'm on my 10th month of E'ping and plan on doing it at least through March. Tells us your woes about pumping at work, maybe we'll have a solution. Or maybe we can just kvetch together.

The main thing that worries me is the lack of consistent schedule. There are things that come up urgently that I have to take care of and those put a pumping session off for another hour or two. Also, I don't really have a lunch break, since we have "working lunches" with conferences, presentations, etc. Like Friday, I had something that kept pushing off my second pumping of the workday until it was around 5pm, so then I just waited and pumped in the car at 6. I think people are supportive to a point, but the work must be done...

[GooeyRN]

The main thing that worries me is the lack of consistent schedule. There are things that come up urgently that I have to take care of and those put a pumping session off for another hour or two. Also, I don't really have a lunch break, since we have "working lunches" with conferences, presentations, etc. Like Friday, I had something that kept pushing off my second pumping of the workday until it was around 5pm, so then I just waited and pumped in the car at 6. I think people are supportive to a point, but the work must be done...

Inconsistant breaks makes pumping hard. Thats why I haven't yet returned to my job. I worked med/surg as a nurse, and some shifts I didn't even get to pee. It seems like a patient always falls or goes down the tubes when I am about to take a break. Im sure co-workers would help out to a certain extent, but I doubt I could get away more than once to pump. Im sure a lot wouldn't be too supportive, since my baby is almost a year old, and so many people don't think breastmilk is important past then. So I am still home, and broke.

When did you return to work? How is your supply doing? Do you get uncomfortable from going long intervals between pumps? That sucks that you can't even count on your lunch break since you have conferences during lunch.

[mamanurse]

When did you return to work? How is your supply doing? Do you get uncomfortable from going long intervals between pumps? That sucks that you can't even count on your lunch break since you have conferences during lunch.

I'm not working right now, but am going to school full time for my BSN. I have two clinicals this fall. I generally pump the first time right after 9:00 meds are passed, then again around 2 when I also take my lunch, then I take a computer with me into the pumping lounge around 6 to do my charting and pump at the same time. I also chart occasionally during the morning pump. My supply has not taken a dive, but I only pump 5x's a day. You've got such a good stash, though, that I bet you could get away with increasing the space between pumpings and decrease the number of pumpings. And yes, I would get fairly uncomfortable if I went more than 5-6 hours without pumping, especially in the morning.

[Sandstress]

When did you return to work? How is your supply doing? Do you get uncomfortable from going long intervals between pumps? That sucks that you can't even count on your lunch break since you have conferences during lunch.

I returned last Monday, as a matter of fact. My supply has actually increased a little in the past couple weeks. Not much, just a few ounces. I have been pumping about 30-35 ounces/day for a long time, and have not tried to increase in several months. I still freeze about 6 ounces every couple days, and she doesn't seem to eat more than that. We're working on solids now, so I don't think I'll have to supplement. I was pumping this much when she first came home from the NICU and ended up donating a substantial amount to the Austin Mother's Milk Bank.

I don't have pain discomfort, but I get self-consious about the size increase :o and then worry about leaking in front of people (I have leaked through pads before.) I have not had to go longer than 6 hours since work started, so I hope it continues that way. It's workable, just difficult and stressful!

[margaretta]

GooeyRN - I was hoping that when he hit a year he would take enough solids that I could just pump morning and night and get 10-12 oz... but I may be deluding myself. Do you know how many times you have to nurse to maintain a small supply like that? He doesn't tolerate it when I drink milk and there are a lot of milk allergies in my family so I don't think we'll be able to switch to cow's milk. He likes solids so I'm hoping I can cut pumping sessions as he gets more and more of his calories from solids. I'll pump as long as I need to but I'm hoping he'll move to solids soon.

mamanurse - I know that his nursing at all makes it easier. If it makes you feel any better, when he does nurse at night he nurses just enough to get back to sleep... which means he gets hungry quickly and wakes every 90 min all night long once he starts nursing. Usually the first wake up is close to morning but sometimes it's all night long. Those nights are hard and have been happening a lot recently as I've been having a little trouble keeping my supply up. I know I don't quite belong here, but I'm a SAHM and I pump 6x a day when I would much much rather nurse so I feel like my experience is closer to being an EPer than anything else... but I know it isn't quite the same. Thanks for welcoming me in spite of that. This is so much harder than nursing and reading about what other people are doing as well as the support is really helpful.

[GooeyRN]

GooeyRN - I was hoping that when he hit a year he would take enough solids that I could just pump morning and night and get 10-12 oz... but I may be deluding myself. Do you know how many times you have to nurse to maintain a small supply like that? He doesn't tolerate it when I drink milk and there are a lot of milk allergies in my family so I don't think we'll be able to switch to cow's milk. He likes solids so I'm hoping I can cut pumping sessions as he gets more and more of his calories from solids. I'll pump as long as I need to but I'm hoping he'll move to solids soon.

mamanurse - I know that his nursing at all makes it easier. If it makes you feel any better, when he does nurse at night he nurses just enough to get back to sleep... which means he gets hungry quickly and wakes every 90 min all night long once he starts nursing. Usually the first wake up is close to morning but sometimes it's all night long. Those nights are hard and have been happening a lot recently as I've been having a little trouble keeping my supply up. I know I don't quite belong here, but I'm a SAHM and I pump 6x a day when I would much much rather nurse so I feel like my experience is closer to being an EPer than anything else... but I know it isn't quite the same. Thanks for welcoming me in spite of that. This is so much harder than nursing and reading about what other people are doing as well as the support is really helpful.



Margaretta,

I used to partially nurse, as well. Mostly just for comfort. Sometimes it would calm her to sleep when she was colicky. But she had major latch issues. Im not talking just a bad latch... She could not latch at all most times. So the screaming would intensify if she could not latch after several attempts. She quit even trying at 3 months. So I have been pretty much been just pumping since the beginning. Her "partial" bfing was more stressful for me than just pumping. It was heartbreaking when she quit trying (and I still hurt quite a bit), but I was also a bit relieved, since I didn't have to make her scream at attempting to latch anymore, if that makes any sense.

Im glad that your supply seems to be holding up for you while you work. Donating to the milk bank was an AWESOME thing for you to do! How is your little one taking to solids? I really hoped that mine would have taken to solids well at 6 months so I could cut way back on pumping. Well... 11.5 months later... She sometimes takes up to 45 oz a day of my milk, and eats no more than 3 cheerio's. She won't take anything from a spoon, and only takes a few bites of food a day. So she hasn't reduced her milk intake at all. I am still going to cut back on her birthday (Oct 23rd) a bit. If I loose a few oz, oh well. I need some sanity. I do think its realistic to pump twice a day, and get 10-12 oz. A lot of women on another forum do that, and some get up to 20 oz pumping just 2-3 times a day. What kind of pump are you using?

Did you join the yahoo groups, pumpmoms, epers, or mobi? They are great places to learn more about pumping, how to increase supply, etc. No one there is judgemental at all. Its very warm and non-judgemental. No one flames you when you are stressed and exhausted, and need to drop a pump or two and need to supplement with formula. You may want to check them out. I learned so much there!

[mamanurse]

Aside from the not nursing bit, my dd is the complete opposite of Gooey's. She LOVES solids. Right now, she's taking in between 18-24 oz per day and eating three "meals" per day. She used to take 30-36 oz per day so I'm hoping the trend continues. I've been gradually decreasing my pumping. I used to pump 8-10 times per day and now I pump 5. I'm just starting to go down to 4 pumps. Eventually, I just want to pump for her in the morning and get between 10-15 oz.

About two months ago, I came really close to giving her formula. AF reared its ugly head and my supply took a sharp dive. I added a lactation blend herb capsule and take it now 5 days before AF is due and during the first few days. This has helped me maintain my supply and make enough milk for dd. I felt massive guilt about almost having to give dd formula, but when I looked at the big picture I felt much better. If you're going to give your dc formula, do it with confidence and the knowledge that you've been doing such a great job already giving him bm for so long.

[evilynmo]

Hi Ladies--

First off, congrats to all of us for sticking with EPing, it is so hard and such an emotional rollercoaster, go team!

My story is long, I had the most perfect, wonderful home water birth. I was surrounded by loving people including my husband, my parents, my doula, and my two midwives. I couln't have had a better birth experience, it was just amazing. I expected to have an equally wonderful breastfeeding experience with my DD. Unfortunatly I was in pain nursing my daughter from day 1. I kept nursing her for the first week with increased nipple pain everytime I nursed. I asked if it was a bad latch and my midwife and doula said it was a good latch. After weeks of pumping and feeding at the breast with excruciating pain everytime I had a meltdown :dizzy:. I tried treating us for thrush, I tried nipple shields, I tried until I couln't anymore. Because of the stress and making myself ill I broke down and sobbed my way to the store to buy formula. I supplemented for about a week until I got my supply back up. I have been EPing since about week 2. I really beat myself up at first, I thought, I can deliver my baby at home with no interventions but I can't breastfeed her, what is wrong with me. I still don't know why my nipples are so pained, even with EPing I have pain, soreness, and cracks. I still beat myself up occasionaly for not trying longer or harder to nurse her at the breast, my DH and Mom and Dad all reassure me that I did, but still you know how it is. The hardest part of EPing for me was going to LLL meetings and explaining to everyone that I was EPing and that I wasn't trying to put Evelyn back to the breast anymore. It was really hard but I am getting more and more comfortable everyday. My new challenge is coming up, I am travelling with DD to my in-laws house, they are nice but I don't know how they'll take the EPing. Any suggestions on how to introduce people to this?

Thank you for this board, it is so great to finally find a community that is like me! BTW, how do you get to put more than one smiley/image in your signature?

[mamanurse]

:w to MDC and the EP'ers thread. I've been EP'ing for 10 months and it has gotten easier for me. Have you heard of Raynaud's Syndrom? The pain you describe sounds similar to that condition.

[GooeyRN]

Hi Ladies--

First off, congrats to all of us for sticking with EPing, it is so hard and such an emotional rollercoaster, go team!

My story is long, I had the most perfect, wonderful home water birth. I was surrounded by loving people including my husband, my parents, my doula, and my two midwives. I couln't have had a better birth experience, it was just amazing. I expected to have an equally wonderful breastfeeding experience with my DD. Unfortunatly I was in pain nursing my daughter from day 1. I kept nursing her for the first week with increased nipple pain everytime I nursed. I asked if it was a bad latch and my midwife and doula said it was a good latch. After weeks of pumping and feeding at the breast with excruciating pain everytime I had a meltdown :dizzy:. I tried treating us for thrush, I tried nipple shields, I tried until I couln't anymore. Because of the stress and making myself ill I broke down and sobbed my way to the store to buy formula. I supplemented for about a week until I got my supply back up. I have been EPing since about week 2. I really beat myself up at first, I thought, I can deliver my baby at home with no interventions but I can't breastfeed her, what is wrong with me. I still don't know why my nipples are so pained, even with EPing I have pain, soreness, and cracks. I still beat myself up occasionaly for not trying longer or harder to nurse her at the breast, my DH and Mom and Dad all reassure me that I did, but still you know how it is. The hardest part of EPing for me was going to LLL meetings and explaining to everyone that I was EPing and that I wasn't trying to put Evelyn back to the breast anymore. It was really hard but I am getting more and more comfortable everyday. My new challenge is coming up, I am travelling with DD to my in-laws house, they are nice but I don't know how they'll take the EPing. Any suggestions on how to introduce people to this?

Thank you for this board, it is so great to finally find a community that is like me! BTW, how do you get to put more than one smiley/image in your signature?

Hi Jen!

Welcome to our tribe! It sounds like you had a wonderful birth experience. Mine was.. well... We won't go there. It isn't a nice story. But anyway, I am pumping now for almost 12 months.

I am sorry to hear that you had such pain issues with bfing. I, too had A LOT of pain when I started pumping. At one point, I had 48 blisters on one nipple. It took a few months for my nipples to toughen up. I don't get blistered anymore, but I am still sore and red. What helped me tremendously, was applying olive oil to my areola's before pumping. I use a q-tip for applying it. I keep a shot glass full of olive oil at the computer (where I pump) and use a new q-tip each time. It cuts way down on the friction. Are you starting with the suction on low, and then increasing it when you let down? That also cut down on a lot of pain for me. I would then turn it back down when the milk stopped, until I got another let down and turned it back up. I also discovered soothies. They are expensive, but are so worth it!

Are you pumping hands free? Pumping hands free makes pumping so much more tolerable. What is your pumping schedule, and how long are you pumping for each session?

Its completely your decision if you try to get your baby back to your breast or not. Only you know the pain you experienced. I don't think anyone here in this tribe will judge you for it.

Have you joined any of the yahoo groups? EPers and MOBI are excellent groups. I have learned so much there.

As for your family reacting to your EPing... Don't worry about what they say. They don't know what you have been through. Just tell them that you are doing the best that you can. Your baby is getting your milk, and thats what matters most.

My family is VERY pro-breastfeeding, on all sides. No one understood that my baby could not breastfeed. "Just put baby to your breast, and switch sides after 15-20 minutes" is the advice I would get. Well... If my baby would put my breast in her mouth maybe I could do just that! No one understood that by baby won't do that. I also had all of them telling me that you can not pump long term. Well guess what? I am pumping as I type this, almost 12 months after delivery. They still get annoyed when I have to pump before going somewhere, or when I get back from a trip from them. They think my breasts are faucets or something, haha.

Your family will understand in time. I still get embarrased at times when I have to tell someone new that I need to pump. But it is getting much easier as time goes by. Do not be ashamed. You can pump anywhere that you can breastfeed.

Good luck with your pumping career!

Gooey

[evilynmo]

:w to MDC and the EP'ers thread. I've been EP'ing for 10 months and it has gotten easier for me. Have you heard of Raynaud's Syndrom? The pain you describe sounds similar to that condition.

Thank you for the welcome and congrats for EPing for 10 months :) I haven't heard of Raynaud's, whats a good source of info on it?

[evilynmo]

Are you pumping hands free? Pumping hands free makes pumping so much more tolerable. What is your pumping schedule, and how long are you pumping for each session?

Just tonight, after reading about hands free pumping I cut holes in an old bra and gave it a try, so much faster! It is great! I pump 5 times a day, I don't have a set schedule. Usally I pump 7ish, 10-11ish, 2-3ish, 5-7ish, 10-11ish. I pump for 15-20minutes on each side, now that I am gonna do it hands free it'll be 15-20minutes and thats it, how nice!

Have you joined any of the yahoo groups? EPers and MOBI are excellent groups. I have learned so much there.

I tried to join yahoo EPers but the system was down, I'll try again tomorrow. I am so glad I finally found a place that I can be me and not judged or ridiculed. The mainstream pumping board I was at wasn't nearly as great as MDC. I look forward to checking out the yahoo groups too.

As for your family reacting to your EPing... Don't worry about what they say. They don't know what you have been through. Just tell them that you are doing the best that you can. Your baby is getting your milk, and thats what matters most.

I am mostly worried about my husband's grandparents, they are very old and they ridicule my aunt in law all the time for her mothering choices, I don't want that kind of stuff to happen to me. But they are all the way in NJ, so it won't really matter. My FIL and MIL are wonderful though, they came to visit in the first month when I was pumping every 2 hrs and I didn't leave my pump the whole time they were here. They were very understanding and supportive.

Again, thank you for your support GooeyRN!

[mamanurse]

Kellymom.com (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/nipple-blanching.html) has some good info on it. I'm not sure you have it, but it's worth reading up on.

[Sandstress]

The hardest part of EPing for me was going to LLL meetings and explaining to everyone that I was EPing and that I wasn't trying to put Evelyn back to the breast anymore. It was really hard but I am getting more and more comfortable everyday. My new challenge is coming up, I am travelling with DD to my in-laws house, they are nice but I don't know how they'll take the EPing. Any suggestions on how to introduce people to this?

Thank you for this board, it is so great to finally find a community that is like me! BTW, how do you get to put more than one smiley/image in your signature?

I'm sorry for the trouble you had nursing in the beginning. Congratulations on getting your supply back up. It's hard! I'm also glad that you're going to LLL meetings and telling them about the whole EPing thing. I hope you're able to educate them, and they start to lay off about the back to breast thing. That's hard when people constantly bring up the same things that you've tried a million times.

(Funny aside: I had to buy some "emergency" tubing for my work pump and I was chatting with the LC at the milk bank where I work, telling her of my slow let downs and my long pumping time. She says "have you tried *relaxing* during pumping?" I know she was trying to help, but come on!)

I found my family to be a little weirded out at first but very accepting of my EPing situation. They show support by asking "how is pumping going?" so I know they're trying. My MIL always asks my DH if I"m still pumping, but she is unfamiliar with ALL things MM, so maybe just curious. Just act like it's completely normal and maybe they will too!

Good luck with continued pumping success!

[GooeyRN]

(Funny aside: I had to buy some "emergency" tubing for my work pump and I was chatting with the LC at the milk bank where I work, telling her of my slow let downs and my long pumping time. She says "have you tried *relaxing* during pumping?" I know she was trying to help, but come on!)




Stuff like that is so frustrating! You feel like yelling, "duh!" I was having trouble with a Lactina rental pump I had. The motor was weakening on it. The arm was still being pulled, but very slow and it was getting stuck. It was turning my nipples purple from the constant suction. I called the rental place (now at this point I have been EPing for 8 months, so believe me, I knew what I was doing and how to work a pump) and the girl tells me to turn the suction down if it is causing me pain, and to turn the speed up and that should fix the problem. How frustrating! It took a lot of convincing to let me exchange the pump for a different one. It was the 4th Lactina I had (I keep shopping around to get better rates, I now get one for $20 a month), so I knew it was the pump, not improper use. She rolled her eyes and exchanged it for me. What is sad, is someone else may quit pumping if they get that pump. Im sure they will end up with battered nipples, and I am afraid that they will figure pumping is just not worth it. :(

I have other stories, too, but that one is the most frustrating.

[evilynmo]

Kellymom.com (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/nipple-blanching.html) has some good info on it. I'm not sure you have it, but it's worth reading up on.
I don't know if that is what I have, but I am suprised that I have never heard of it before, I wonder why my midwife or doula or LLL hasn't mentioned it as a possibility. I do have white nipples and my nipples are almost always pinkish/purpleish and very very sensitive, before and after feedings. I started with a bad latch and then it just all spiraled out of control from there, I think I had thrush, and possibly Raynauds too. This breastfeeding stuff is so much harder than people let on, yeesh!

[mamanurse]

Gooey, I totally know what you mean about the bad pump thing.

The hospital I'm at currently has an employee pumping lounge with a Medela Classic in it. It had started letting milk get backed up into the tubing 'cause the membranes weren't opening up with each suction. I told the head LC for the whole health system about it and she said it had to be my equipment. Nevermind that my equipment works just fine on the other Classic and Lactina in their LC rooms. Also, one of their other pumps has a lower suction than what I think it should have. She tested it and told me it was normal. However, I got a better letdown and milk yield from my PIS at home!

Grrrrr! Frustrating.

[GooeyRN]

Gooey, I totally know what you mean about the bad pump thing.

The hospital I'm at currently has an employee pumping lounge with a Medela Classic in it. It had started letting milk get backed up into the tubing 'cause the membranes weren't opening up with each suction. I told the head LC for the whole health system about it and she said it had to be my equipment. Nevermind that my equipment works just fine on the other Classic and Lactina in their LC rooms. Also, one of their other pumps has a lower suction than what I think it should have. She tested it and told me it was normal. However, I got a better letdown and milk yield from my PIS at home!

Grrrrr! Frustrating.

That would be very frustrating, to have that problem with only one pump, but be told its YOUR equipment. I guess that would make the LC's job easier, and more profitable for her to sell you a new kit.

[mama-a-llama]

I'm currently working on weaning down my 3 am pumping :jumpers: by reducing 2 min every 2 days. Soooo. . . when I'm done that, which one should I drop next? I'll then be down to 8 am, 12 pm, 3 pm, 6 pm, 8:30 pm, 10:30 pm, and I'm planning to drop both the 3 pm and 8:30 pm, and move the 6 back to 5ish. For some reason (major sleep deprivation?:lol ) my brain isn't working well enough to figure out what would make things best spread out.

[mamanurse]

Right now, I'm trying to turn two pumpings into one as well. My current schedule is: 6:30, 9:30, 1:30, 5:30, 9:30. I'm trying to do 4-5 hours between daytime pumps now and make a 7:00 pumping instead of 5:30 and 9:30. I'm just getting my 5:30 pumping to be later and my 9:30 pumping to be less and am hoping to be done transitioning by November.

[Swirly]

My milk is disappearing. I am totally freaking out. Ever since Af returned two months ago, I lose 3 ounces with every cycle and it does not return. I am now at the point where some days I break even milk-wise, some days she eats more than I make. I get sick even thinking of supplementing after doing this for eight months.

I don't know what to do. I eat oatmeal til blue in the face. I take as much Fenugreek as I can afford (6-10 capsules per day). I drink water okay, not great. My membranes are new. My pump is an 8 months old PIS advanced. I don't know what to try to see if it is the pump or me, but I really need to know this ASAP.

I can't pump extra during the qweek really, as my child is very mobile and climbs all over me or cries when I pump. If I pump a lot this weekend, and get the supply up - won't it just go away when I have to return to pumping 5-6 times per day again?

My current pumping schedule is:

1. 8:30 am (30 minutes)
2, some time between 12:30 and 1:30 pm (whenever she will allow it) for between 20-30 minutes usually.
3. 4:30pm (10-20 minutes, depending upon her mood)
4. 7:30pm (25-30 min)
5. 10:15 pm (30 minutes)
6. 3:45 am (25 - 30 minutes)

Pumps # 3 and 4 sometimes get combined into one pumping at or around 6:00 pm - if she won't allow me to pump until my husband gets home from work.

[Phiababy]

if my milk has dried out can i get it back by pumping?

[mamamavis]

Swirly, I know how you feel. I have been pumping exclusively since August first, every three hours round the clock. Taking Fenugreek, alfalfa tea, oatmeal, everything. Then my milk started to disappear, like from 2 oz per session down to 2 tablespoons or so. (I only have developed milk ducts in one breast, so I have been pumping only the left side for three months now.)
I am freaking out because I was taking Reglan when my milk started to go away, ( 6 weeks ago) but it was making me very depressed and crazy, so for Lily's and my health I stopped taking it. Now, I have next to no milk and have been supplementing but I am so heartbroken about it. I really am committed to giving her the best possible start. She absolutely refused/s to latch on.
I feel for you. We won't make it to four months at this rate. Good for you for how far you have come! Be proud of yourself!

[Swirly]

:Hug Mamamavis, you sure are having a hard time. I think you did the right thing by stopping the reglan. Lily needs a mom who feels good. You are doing a good job as her mama. She is a lucky girl.

[Swirly]

if my milk has dried out can i get it back by pumping?

Phia, I am not sure if pumping alone would do it (you are also nursing though, right?) I would make a separate post if I were you on re-lactating. Folks with experience with that can advise you better. You should also contact a lactation consultant or La Leche leader probably.

[mamamavis]

thanks, swirly! and i'm a lucky momma! it was hard to stop the reglan in some ways (quantity!!), but we decided as a family that happiness all around is as important to us as pumping/feeding etc...so here we go au natural and supplementing.

[GooeyRN]

Swirly,

My supply started dipping around 8 months, too. It has been a decline since. I loose about an ounce or 2 a week. I went from 75 oz now am at around 43. I had mastitis, which killed my supply initially. I think the problem now is pump resistance. Do you feel empty when you are done pumping? I sometimes still feel pretty full. I learned to hand express after I was done pumping, sometimes I get 3 more ounces out!!! What kind of pump are you using? Can you rent a hospital grade pump for awhile? I have been using one since the beginning (will be pumping for one year on monday, YAY!!!) so I don't have that option. Maybe it would help you to try one for a week or two? Pumping more frequently hasn't helped me. I say definatly try hand expressing when done pumping. 8 months is a common time to exerience pump resistance.

I totally understand about our little one not liking it when we pump. I try to time my pumping during her naps. Forget even trying if she is getting tired since she cries. I can't just let her cry, either. She is so high needs and she is starting to walk this pumping is getting so hard to deal with! She gets mad when I pump and pulls the tubing out! haha.

Gooey

[Chronic Chrissy]

I NEED PUMP SUGGESTIONS

I need help and you are the ladies to ask. I am exclusively BF except for when I have to go to work for a few hours a day, but not because I want to, because expressing is such a hassle for me, here's why. I am very tight when it comes to cash. When I was pregnant my SIL offed me her gerber pump from like 7 years ago, she didn't even get a chance to use it because apparently she dried up within days(please don't start). So I have this pump that worked great for like the first month. I stored up enough milk for about 8-9 feedings. When I went back to work I tried not to use this store and tried to pump for the next day so she had fresh milk but my breassts wouldn't pump anymore, the would shut off. I tried everything to get them to work with the pump with out success, even using DD to start, or pumping the other side, but my breasts are too smart. I turned to hand expression because it was the only thing I could think of, but even that only works for so long and I know there is more in there because DD can eats about 7oz per feeding and I can usually only get 4 before they stop. Anyways now that she is eating more I don't think I can keep up much longer. The emergency store is gone and there are times when I've expressed like mad and come up short, 24 hours and I couldn't get on feeding. I want to buy a pump but I don't want to waste my cash on another one that doesn't work. I need it to be portable so I can pump at work and I don't have much cash to spend. Please help, one day soon I'll come home and DH will tell me I didn't leave enough and he had to use the emergency formula that hasn't even been cracked yet.

[mamanurse]

CC- If it's that important to you to give your baby only bm, you might have to buy a quality pump. Also, your body is not used to letting down for the pump and that might be why it is difficult for you to get much milk. FWIW, I don't think that 4oz is all that bad a yield. You should set up a time of day that you ALWAYS pump. If your dc takes a morning nap, this might be a good time. That way your body is being told to make more milk at approximately the same time of day and will meet the demand. You also might have to pump double what your babe would nurse while you're at work.

Pumping is tricky, but I think you'll be able to do it with enough dedication and the proper pump. Oh yeah, one more thing. I bought my PIS used on Craig's List and replaced the tubing, horns, and bottles for maximum used hygiene. I spent $80 and it turned out being my neighbor, who is an OB, that I bought it from.

Let us know how it goes...

[melbb]

My milk supply seems to be crashing, too. DD just turned 11 months old. We just relocated from the west coast to the east coast. I had to give up my Symphony and use my PIS for the travels. I am still using it. Based on past experience, I don't think it is the pump. Anyway, I had been taking 20-30 mg of dom and stopped that, too. And I caught germs on the plane and now have a cold, and our travel was awful and only got 4 hours of sleep our first night in our new place. My supply has dropped from about 26 oz to 19-20 oz. I have never made enough milk for DD, so i always felt like a failure. And now I feel even worse. The thing is, I had planned to drop to 1-2 pumps a day at 12 months and expected to have to give her more formula (she is slow to eat more solids, although is showing much more interest in self feeding now). I am just having a hard time accepting things and letting go. I feel kind of depressed.

[GooeyRN]

My supply is dropping, too. I still make a little more than she eats, but I don't know for how long. I am going to cut some pumps now that dd is a year old tomorrow. (10 times a day is just too much!)

Chronic Chrissy,

I heard that Gerber pumps are awful. I doubt you will maintain your supply with one. If you can't spend a lot, I heard that Avent Isis pumps work pretty well. Its a single sided hand pump. I know some women who actually EPed with them. They are about $50 each. 4 oz is a pretty good output for pumping, though. I agree with mamanurse, that you should try to pump the same times every day, like everytime your baby naps, and once she is sleeping but before you go to bed. Its also good to pump right after your baby nurses first thing in the am. Milk supply tends to be highest then. Good luck!

Gooey

[Chronic Chrissy]

I ask for your honesty and experience, which I know you will give. I'm looking at the Advent Isis manual pump, and the gerber massaging pump(also manual, but now that I've read some posts maybe not) anyone think I'll have success with either of these? Is manual a good idea? I only miss one maybe two feedings and right now if I could get anywhere from 6-12oz in a pumping I would be happy.
I try to catch up on the weekends in the mornings before she wakes up, but somehow I can step out for 10 minutes and DH feeds it to her because she is fussy:irked: and not even hungry, and since her nipples are the same shape as her paci that's what she thinks it is. He's got comfort nursing down better than me. I also pump every morning before work and every day right when I get home, that's when I get the most since it's got a chance to build up. So I get that first 4 oz then till the next morning I'm lucky to get another ounce, so I'm still short. There have been a time or two where I've had to add an ounce of water to top it up because I just can't do it:( . And now that my hours are picking up and she is eating more it gets me a little worried about how much longer I can keep my head above water.
But thanks anyways for all your help so far.

[Metasequoia]

Not an exclusive pumper, but I've used my fair share of pumps. I loooove the Isis, it's fabulous & I've used a hospital grade pump before & I still love the Isis. Chrissy, do you pump on one side while your Dd is nursing on the other?

[Chronic Chrissy]

Not an exclusive pumper, but I've used my fair share of pumps. I loooove the Isis, it's fabulous & I've used a hospital grade pump before & I still love the Isis. Chrissy, do you pump on one side while your Dd is nursing on the other?

I have but my breasts are very smart, and apparently gerber pumps(mine is like 7 years old) aren't very good. Did you use a manual one or electric/battery. I have a bid on a manual for $.99 on ebay, so I don't think at that price I have much to lose, only 2 hours to wait and see.

[GooeyRN]

I also pump every morning before work and every day right when I get home, that's when I get the most since it's got a chance to build up.

So you pump before work, and after work, but not during work? Going a long time between pumpings/nursings may cause your supply to drop over a few weeks. Is it possible to pump once during work? That would help you to maintain your supply.

[mamanurse]

The Gooey Peanut turns 1 tommorrow. Congratulations on making it a year of EP'ing and here's to celebrating your baby!!!

PS- I was worried I'd forget to wish happy birthday tommorrow, so I thought I'd do it tonight:p

[Chronic Chrissy]

So you pump before work, and after work, but not during work? Going a long time between pumpings/nursings may cause your supply to drop over a few weeks. Is it possible to pump once during work? That would help you to maintain your supply.

I'm at work for 3 hours usually and I don't get a break unless it's a busy day and I work over 5 hours.

[GooeyRN]

The Gooey Peanut turns 1 tommorrow. Congratulations on making it a year of EP'ing and here's to celebrating your baby!!!

PS- I was worried I'd forget to wish happy birthday tommorrow, so I thought I'd do it tonight:p

Thanks!!!!! I can't believe a year went by already. I made my initial goal of pumping! I am so happy that I made it. But now I just can't stop. I have a new goal now, 2 years! Im not holding myself to that, though. She has a good six months worth of frozen milk for whenever I quit. I will be happy to make it through cold and flu season. Hopefully she will be eating solids by spring and I may quit then. I am just going to take it day by day once she starts eating. Thanks so much for wishing my lil peanut a happy birthday!!! I have a toddler now!!! She is starting to walk, look out now!

[GooeyRN]

I'm at work for 3 hours usually and I don't get a break unless it's a busy day and I work over 5 hours.

Oh, well thats not a problem to go 3 hours, assuming you bf before you leave and when you get home. I don't know how going 5 hours would affect your supply. I would assume it wouldn't if you don't work every day.

[mamanurse]

I agree with Gooey on the 3 hour pumping, but 5 hours on a near daily basis may be problematic.

Congrats on the goal revision Gooey. I just broke it to dh that I will be continuing through respiratory season and he seemed to take it pretty well. Dd has dramatically decreased her milk consumption. She's maybe taking in 24 oz per day tops now. I'm almost down to four pumps and hope to make it to three if and when she takes less milk. I'm going to try it in a sippy cup soon at breakfast:p

[mama-a-llama]

Congrats on one year, Gooey! I hope she starts taking solids for you. And yeah, I think dropping some pumps are in order. You've made it a year at 10 or more pumps a day! :bow

Here I am, down to 14 min for the 3 am pump. Do you think once I get down to 4 I can just quit, and not go down to 2 min first?

We're working on introducing solids pureed into his tube feedings. Been doing bananas for nearly a week, and he was doing well. Then yesterday he got this splotchy rash after he pooped. DH couldn't understand why I was so beside myself about it. I was really counting on getting him partially on solids to keep him from having to get formula, or at least reduce the amt.

I was also telling DH I was going through respiratory season, and loosely planning to be done by end of April, before his brother's wedding, because I don't want to have to deal with pumping then. He was saying why? since I'll be down to 4 pumps then, and depending on what time of day the wedding is, I may not have any issues at all. So we'll see. I'll rent through Dec, renew for 3 mos until end of March, and reevaluate then.

[nawor]

Hi

I have been reading a lot and have decided to join in!

My baby was born at 29 weeks 5 days after ten weeks of hospital bedrest and spent 8 weeks in the NICU.

I started pumping the day after she was born (too sick to start the same day) and am now up to 19 weeks. I hope to make it to a year. I don't have a huge supply, maybe 25oz a day. I have tried herbs, more milk plus didn't do anything for me, so at the weekend I tried Goats Rue tincture which made me ill, hot flushes, sweats, cystitis like symptoms, my "allergy" headache and nausea. After seeing our baby flush too I threw my milk away (so sad) and used two of the three I had in the freezer. I feel better today, just the headache remains.

Today she had her first formula (bad day), 20ml in a 120ml bottle.

I pump every three hours (four at night) for 20 mins with a Lactina and don't feel that I can do any more than that but hated giving her formula. Maybe I will try to fit in an extra couple of pumps today.

We have tried BF, not until she came home (when she left the NICU we moved 2000 miles, grim). She can do it but not well and I know that she could probably do it eventually if I tried harder, BUT, I have to pump afterwards and give her a bottle. After BF she sucks so hard at the bottle she chokes, stops breathing for 20 secs and goes blue. That was the reason she stayed in the NICU for so long, she had O2 with feeds. After she was rehospitalised last week (ICU for observation) I decided to go back to EP ing. Too much stress. Consistent bottles with a newborn nipple and no "episodes" all weekend.

Dr Newman sent me a prescription for Domperidone, hopefully the pills should arrive this week. I would love to hear of your experiences with it as I hate taking pills and am a bit nervous about it. I have read everything I can and sort of take comfort from the fact that it is classed as L1 when some of the antibiotics I had to take post baby and for mastitis/kidney infection were worse than that.

[melbb]

Nawor,
Welcome to the group! I have taken dom, was up to 120 mg/day. I didn't have any side effects except maybe an occassional stomach ache. I weaned down to 20-30 mg/day without any loss of supply. Although now that I stopped it my supply has tanked. I would give it a try. I also tried many herbs and they didn't do anything for me.

[GooeyRN]

Hi

I have been reading a lot and have decided to join in!

My baby was born at 29 weeks 5 days after ten weeks of hospital bedrest and spent 8 weeks in the NICU.

I started pumping the day after she was born (too sick to start the same day) and am now up to 19 weeks. I hope to make it to a year. I don't have a huge supply, maybe 25oz a day. I have tried herbs, more milk plus didn't do anything for me, so at the weekend I tried Goats Rue tincture which made me ill, hot flushes, sweats, cystitis like symptoms, my "allergy" headache and nausea. After seeing our baby flush too I threw my milk away (so sad) and used two of the three I had in the freezer. I feel better today, just the headache remains.

Today she had her first formula (bad day), 20ml in a 120ml bottle.

I pump every three hours (four at night) for 20 mins with a Lactina and don't feel that I can do any more than that but hated giving her formula. Maybe I will try to fit in an extra couple of pumps today.

We have tried BF, not until she came home (when she left the NICU we moved 2000 miles, grim). She can do it but not well and I know that she could probably do it eventually if I tried harder, BUT, I have to pump afterwards and give her a bottle. After BF she sucks so hard at the bottle she chokes, stops breathing for 20 secs and goes blue. That was the reason she stayed in the NICU for so long, she had O2 with feeds. After she was rehospitalised last week (ICU for observation) I decided to go back to EP ing. Too much stress. Consistent bottles with a newborn nipple and no "episodes" all weekend.

Dr Newman sent me a prescription for Domperidone, hopefully the pills should arrive this week. I would love to hear of your experiences with it as I hate taking pills and am a bit nervous about it. I have read everything I can and sort of take comfort from the fact that it is classed as L1 when some of the antibiotics I had to take post baby and for mastitis/kidney infection were worse than that.

Nawor,

Welcome to our tribe! Congrats on having a baby. Your feeding experience sounds so scarey. BFing would be a lot easier... Have you tried using an SNS to avoid bottles? Maybe you can talk to your pediatrician about that? I don't have any real advice and haven't gone through your experience. DO NOT FEEL GUILTY about having to use formula. Thats what it is for!!! You already tried the herbs, and they don't seem to be the correct avenue for you. So many women never even try to get their baby to latch onto their breast. They just crack open the can of formula without even thinking bfing and/or eping is an option! Many babies not only survive, but thrive on formula. You are pumping a good amount, every 3 hours during the day and 4 hours during the night. Would it be possible to also pump every 3 hours during the night? I don't know how often your baby gets up to eat so I have no idea your level of sleep deprivation. Prolactin llevels are highest in the very early morning, between 1-4 am. If you can try to get a pump session in during that time it may help you to get a few extra oz. I do not have personal experience with Domperidone, but have heard that many women get a lot of milk with it. There are certain antibiotics and other meds you will want to avoid if you take it. I believe Diflucan and other antifungals can cause EKG changes so you may want to look up what else to avoid. Are you eating oatmeal? Not the instant kind... Many women have lots of luck with that increasing their supplies. Good luck, and welcome to our tribe!

Gooey

[Chronic Chrissy]

MIL took us out shopping today! We picked up a gerber massaging pump to give it a try because I just couldn't keep up. I tried it out and it did alot better than I would have hand expressing at this time of day with feedings and all. I did some resarch on the old geber pump I had and found out why I was having such trouble it seems everyone did with those things . I only work about 3 hours a day 4 days a week so I don't think it will be a big issue to manual pump for me after hand expressing . So I think I'll try it out for a bit and see how it goes. But I will keep you offers and opinions in mind. Thanks alot.