Exclusive Pumpers Tribe

[mama-a-llama]

It looks like we could use a tribe for ep'ers. I'm on a group for ep'ers, but there's a more mainstream slant there.
A little intro. . . my son was nursing fine until about 2 weeks old, then started sometimes refusing to nurse, or popping on and off. He didn't gain weight between 2 and 4 weeks, our former dr was a jerk about it, and we found another who sent us by ambulance to Children's Hospital where we found out he had a heart defect. After surgery for that, he developed reflux. In the following weeks, he just wasn't nursing enough to gain weight, so ended up with a feeding tube. That was the end of December, and I've been ep'ing ever since.
Looking forward to hearing your stories and supporting each other.

[mom2ken1cam2]

:clap :Thanks
I have been looking for a thread like this...still new to this forum stuff and not real sure about what I'm doing...but I just saw this and it's what I've needed. I've posted "my story" before but here's an overview! I had ds2 9 weeks ago and he's never really been great at nursing. They called him a sleepy baby in the hospital and once we got home I realized just how sleepy he was. It took hrs. to wake him for a feeding and as soon as we got him to wake up he'd fall asleep on the breast UGH! He dehydrated twice (2 IVs in the head) and that's when we knew we had to offer the bottle (we were syringe feeding). I had a low supply so we were supplementing with formula. It seems like it was a downhill spiral. He slowly stopped wanting to nurse which breaks my heart. I am still pumping after nine weeks and it is literally a one-feeding-at a time kind of thing. If I think any further than that I'll go CRAZY!!! Can I get some feedback on what kind of pumps you are all using??? Thanks for the support...us EPers need all we can get...it's exhausting!!!

[peaceful_mama]

I EP'ed for 6 months. I stopped because well, it's a hard, long, frustrating job and with being a working mom and an AP mama, well, that was when I got to the point I felt he needed more time with ME...that was when he really started getting 'particular' about who he wanted.

I know what you mean about the mainstream slant on the AP groups. That's the reason I PM'ed Cynthia a couple of times and basically begged for something to show up here for us. My last straw with it was when I expressed some frustration over how to handle it when you need to pump but your babe needs you too and I was given suggestions ranging from letting my child CIO in an exersaucer or something in the room with me to putting him in a separate room in a crib with toys...all with the gist of "he needs to learn that you need to pump"
I'm sorry, that's not the relationship I wanted with my child. I already went through enough not being able to nurse him, I wasn't about to also sacrifice my stance on CIO. To me, the whole point of breastfeeding being central to AP is the close relationship that goes on between the mother and the nursing child. (yes, of course, the milk is superior, but there's also the relationship. The comfort.) When challenges arise, unfortunately, I found at least, you start a balancing act between the importance of mother's milk and the importance of your attached relationship to your child--being able to respond to him when he needs YOU, the time you spend in physical contact with your child.
For me, I reached the end of being able to balance at 6 months....

[mama-a-llama]

Can I get some feedback on what kind of pumps you are all using???
I'm using a Medela Lactina select. It's the pump I got from my local LC before we knew why ds wasn't eating well, and needed to rebuild/maintain my supply. When at Children's, I was using a Medela Symphony. Man I hated that thing--I could never get the suction even on both sides, and I hadn't figured out how to be hands free yet. So I would be in the pump room in the middle of the night, trying to fiddle with the tubing while holding both flanges on--not fun at all. I ended up bringing my rented pump from home.

Later, as we've been back for outpatient stuff, I sometimes use a different pump room. That Symphony is fine. In fact, I like it much better than the Lactina. I had to use the other room again recently, and that pump is even worse now. So I sort of want to switch my rental, but I'm nervous because it seems like each individual pump can have its own problems. The Symphony is finicky about how you set it up, I think, but works better when done right, while the Lactina is more consistent and "foolproof".

Thanks for the support...us EPers need all we can get...it's exhausting!!!
I'd been contemplating starting a thread like this for a while, but didn't think there would be much participation. Then zakers_mama's thread took off, and I thought we really did need support here.
I should go back to bed now. I turned off the pump 10 min ago, but wanted to finish my reply.

[earthcore]

I EP'd for 16 mos. for my DD. i used a hospital grade pump for the first 12 mos. Then it died. I used an Ameda Purely Yours after that.

You go mamas! EPing is one of the most difficult things I ever done, but sooooo worth it!

[clovergirl]

just wanted to give a shout out as a former EP'er... 15mo with my first DD. i used a medela lactina for 4mo and then bought a pump-in-style (when i finally realized nursing was not in our cards). i was a very lucky EP'er in that i never had to supplement. it was really exhausting, but i'd do it again in a heartbeat.
i also wanted to give you mamas who are on kiddo number one hope for the future if you are planning on having more kids- although we had another very rocky start with DD#2, she's now 2yrs old and still nursing. :thumb

[sehbub]

I having only been EPing for 6 weeks now, but am also dealing with supply issues on top of that, and don't see any end in sight as far as my DD (a 30 week preemie...now 6 weeks old) being able to nurse any time soon. It is exhausting, and I was using a hand pump up until a week ago, which probably was the root of many of my self-doubt and frustration problems. I'm now using Medela Lactina Select, and while I still see my pump more than I see my husband, it has made life easier. I am almost pumping enough to feed my DD (2 oz per feeding) and hopefully will be able to increase my supply as time goes on. It is exhausting, and defeating, and all I want to do is feed my babe the way nature intended. Unfortunately, that's not in the cards for us at the moment. We weren't designed real well for each other. I've got large, flat nipples, and she has a teeny tiny mouth. Fingers are crossed that I won't be participating in this thread for much longer. Not that there isn't a wonderful group of women here, of course. :wink

[melbb]

I EP. DD is 6 months old. She didn't BF at birth. She wanted to thrust everything out of her mouth, and she had jaundice, so she was sleepy and her suck was weak. She started BFing at 3 weeks, only to refuse after 3 weeks. I pumped for 2 weeks and then got her BFing again using a nipple shield. That lasted 2 months, when my supply plunged (long story). I have gotten my supply back up, but she only screams at my breast. I only pump about 26 oz/day, so I have to supplement. I have tried domperidone, herbs, lactogenic food, etc. Nothing has increased my supply further. I was using a PIS, but just rented a Symphony to see if I can increase my supply. If it doesn't, I am thankful for the break the Symphony is giving me. It is much gentler than the PIS.

[orangecanoe]

My youngest dd has severe reflux and started showing an aversion to nursing/eating around 4-5 wks of age. Her intake was suffering and an LC advised that I should rent a pump and offer/force feed her bottles if need be. Unfortunately, two of the prophylactic antibiotics we had to try for her kidney reflux gave her really bad nausea/diarrhea/vomiting and that seemed to kill her appetite and I could no longer get her to nurse at night, which was all we had left. :(

It's been a couple weeks now and I'm still trying to get the most efficient pumping schedule/routine in place. I had rented an Ameda Egnell Elite and that has worked well, but the LC thought I would do okay with the Purely Yours so I'm using both til the rental is up. My toddler is still nursing so it's a little tricky at times to keep track of pumping and how many oz. I've gotten for the day and when she usually nurses.

Some days it feels like all I ever do is pump, wash stuff and bottle feed so I guess I'm still trying to find some balance. Since my supply is adequate, what helps me is to pump at breakfast and then not again til around noon so I have that window to play with the girls or get out of the house w/o worrying about pumping. So far so good.

[Swirly]

I am delighted to see this thread. I have a 14 week old daughter and have been pumping since the beginning. She4 is upset now, so I gotta go, but will be back with our story when able.

[GooeyRN]

I am an EPer. DD (now 7.5 months old) had some issues at birth and could not nurse properly until 2 months, and then refused the breast after 3 months. I use a Medela Lactina Select. I pump hands free. I have a huge oversupply. (about 75 ounces a day, its both a blessing and a curse) I purchased my third deep freezer about 3 weeks ago.

Its been a difficult road so far. DD is a high needs baby, who wants to be constantly held. And she hated slings and carriers. It *had* to be my arms. Or she would scream like she was in a horror movie. It was rough in the begining, since dd could not tolerate being put down for even a second. So I mostly pumped while she napped. (Which meant no sleep for me and no housework getting done for quite some time) I also learned to pump hands free. I was then able to lay her on my lap while I pumped. Never to this day have I let her cry while I pumped.

As she got older (after 4 months) She was able to tolerate being put down for short intervals. This made pumping much easier, since she does not nap more than 1/2 hour a day now. I sit indian style in the middle of the floor, with her exersaucer, bouncer chair, swing, and a play matt and mobile in a circle around me. I also keep a basket of toys next to me. When she gets bored in the exersaucer (about 5 minutes) I move her around the cirlce. Pumping hands free is great, since I can play and pump at the same time. She still loves to be held, so I hold her at all times while not pumping. She seems to be happy with this arrangement, so I am as well.

A tip for other EPers... You can do almost anything while you pump! I can pump and drive, pump while I cook dinner and clean the house and do laundry! (dh is home then so he holds her) This can even be done with my huge Lactina pump! Put it in a backpack zipped up with just the cord and tubing out. Put on the backpack. Attach the cord to a very long extension cord and plug it in. Pump hands free. I know it sounds crazy, but it works! (I am too cheap to spend the $200 on the battery pack) I also pump during the night. I sleep while I pump! I sit propped up with pillows in bed and pump hands free. I set a cooking timer for 20 minutes. When it dings, Im done! I keep a mini fridge in my bedroom so I don't have to run the milk downstairs. Keep several sets of horns up there so you don't have to constantly wash them. Or I just reuse the same set all night, by storing them in the refridgerator between usings.

As you can tell, I got good at this pumping stuff. Sure I have other problems (very sore nipples, thrush, NO free time for myself unless I pump while on the computer like now, frequent engorgement, etc) but My dd is happy, and she is getting my milk! Even if I quit now at 7.5 months, she would have enough of my milk to last her to over a year old. So even if breastfeeding the traditional way does not work out.... There is another way to get your baby your milk! It is so much work, but so worth it!

Some family and friends of mine think I'm nuts, but I am doing everything I can for my baby. She is so healthy, never had any illness. I am so glad that I didn't give up.

All of you EPers out there are great mommy's for going the extra 10 miles to give your babies the best! Keep it up!

[MaryJaneLouise]

All I can say is :twothumbs WOW to you full time EPers! I pump part time WOHM, and it is a pain in the @ss! Keep up the good work.

[sehbub]

Wow, GooeyRN.

I've only been EPing for about 7 weeks now. How do you pump hands free with the Lactina Select? I think I'm missing something. Every time I pump I sit at my desk and lean against the edge of the desk to hold the horns on. LOL. My DH laughs at me, but at least that way I have my hands free and can catch up on e-mail/pay bills/hold our baby (she's under 6 pounds) etc.

So hands free? How's that work?

[MaryJaneLouise]

Here's the rubber band trick for hands free pumping:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/hands-free-pumping.html

There are also special bras you can buy, or you can take an old one and cut out circle where your nips are. Stick the horns in from the inside, then attach the rest to the outside.

[GooeyRN]

Here's the rubber band trick for hands free pumping:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/hands-free-pumping.html

There are also special bras you can buy, or you can take an old one and cut out circle where your nips are. Stick the horns in from the inside, then attach the rest to the outside.

The hair band method is the fastest to set up, so I use that at home. But cutting a one inch slit in a sports bra keeps things the most stable for driving. You can turn your whole body to merge and things dont pop off. The only prob. w/ that is your nipples then stick through the holes. But nursing pads solve that problem.

[sehbub]

Fantastic! Thanks!

[mimid]

I wa trying to come to terms with the idea of not being able to bf my girls, but it never sat well with me. Perhaps this is the way to go? My story:

At 33w 5d I had an e-c/s and brought my 3 beautiful babes into the world. 2 were in the NICU just to grow and learn to suck and the third had respritory problems, too. I had a baaaad reaction to the Duomorph and was so doped up from the mag, benadryl and the morph that I didn't start pumping until 2 days later. (DH wasn't able to be at the hospital as often as he would have liked and even though I said I wanted to bf, the nursing staff was pretty much unsupportive of anything but pumping for triplets.) I was still pretty loopy and my 2 hour pumping schedule was often messed up. I ended up getting 20cc per breast ever 2 hours by the time the girls came home at 2 weeks.

I was trying to bf and supplement but had little help here with the girls so when 2 or 3 are screaming Ijust used a bottle. I did buy a SNS and some Dom and still have my hospital pump rental, but it seems like there is never enought time to feed 3 girls bottles, bf one girl and pump plus all the other things I need to do around here. I was thinking of waiting until the summer when I will have a mother's helper and then trying to relactate (I'm still getting some milk and the girls pften like to suckle and use me as a human pacifier.) But now I'm thinking exclusively pumping might be more doable.

I'm glad this thread is here!

[BakerALM]

Hey all,

New to mothering.com but have been EPing for 17weeks. The week after my little girl was born was a breastfeeding nightmare! Things started out painful (as I expected) and then became toe curling stinging burning pain! My nipples were bright purple and so swolen my little girl could bairly fit them in her mouth. After about 6 LC said everything was fine I went totally crazy. :dizzy: I could not belive that this was normal or ok. I finally figgured it out on my own and found a more experenced LC. My daugher was born biting. Every time she sucked she would clamp down and run her lower jaw up the side of the nipple hard. From the outside if you dont look carefully it is hard to tell anything is wrong.

We tried to break her of this but it is engraned in her, she cant even hold a passifier in her mouth because she does not suck on it properly. Also her temperment is Hyper & Stubborn!:lol We had the LC sweating by the end of every session since my girl would just either scream bloody murder if you toutched her face to make a correction or just clampdown harder in protest.

This has been an extremly hard road! I have been though 6 pumps; 2 manual, 1 consumer electric and 3 hospital grade. Each time I switched I noticed an increase in supply. I am currenly still climbing and hoping to beable to feed her fully on BM someday.

Also I am in the middle of being diagnosed for thrush and or Reynaud's which I have had from the begnining. It is hard to tell the difference between the two since the symptoms are so similar.

I just joined a yahoo group exclusivly for EPers I would definatly recommend it ! :thumb
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPers/

So glad to find more of you! We need all the support we can get

[MaryJaneLouise]

I was thinking of waiting until the summer when I will have a mother's helper and then trying to relactate (I'm still getting some milk and the girls pften like to suckle and use me as a human pacifier.) But now I'm thinking exclusively pumping might be more doable.

I'm glad this thread is here!

Miriam, if I were you I would try to keep up with some direct bf-ing, especially since they like to do it. As they grow and become more demanding, it is a good way to keep them pacified. Plus there are wonderful bonding and oral development pluses to the direct bfing.

One of my guys didn't really "learn" to directly bf until about 3 months old. Now he is a maniac. They learn to nurse by doing, and WILL get better at actually extracting milk.

It is very confusing to balance the pumping, feeding, and direct bfing with multiples. I remember how hard is was with two -- your household has to be a 3 ring (but fun!) circus.

:hug whatever you decide.

Are you able to tandem feed at all? See below for photos etc.

http://www.karengromada.com/photos/index.htm

http://www.karengromada.com/images/photos/dclutch/double_clutch_double_football_2days.jpg

ETA: I hope I didn't offend any of you valiant EPers. I'm not always good with words. I'm just saying that since EPing is SO hard, that she might want to TRY to continue the partial direct BFing. :)

[clovergirl]

BakerALM,
your story sounds very similar to what i went through with my daughters. have you ever heard of craniosacral therapy? here is a link to an article from LLL about how it can be helpful to infants with feeding issues-
http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVAugSep01p82.html
we did not do any CST with Dd#1 as we didn't know about it then, but i credit it with helping DD#2 being able to nurse successfully. she had a very tight jaw and wasn't able to open her mouth wide enough to latch correctly, and once she was on the breast she wouldn't/couldn't move her lower jaw properly. after doing CST and mild chiropractic work on her made a huge difference. i now always recommend it to people having issues like ours, as it truly saved our nursing relationship.

[TurboClaudia]

i was also going to suggest the craniosacral therapy for your little one, BakerALM. many chiropractors are also trained in this technique and you can look at www.icpa4kids.com to locate one in your area that specializes in working with children.

~claudia

[mom2ken1cam2]

Are there any EPers with a low supply also??? I'm at the end of my rope! I felt like there might be some hope when I heard about Domperidone, so I ordered some (it's on the way...I haven't used it yet). The one LC that I have been working with said it works pretty fast so I was really excited about trying it UNTIL the other LC I know printed out all of these warnings against Dom and told me that a low supply wasn't worth my children losing their mother over! She sounded pretty serious about me NOT taking the DOM. I'm SO confused/frustrated/emotional etc. I've been pumping for 10 weeks now and felt like I was getting into a "routine" with it. Now I feel like it's not even worth it to give him only 1/2 of the nutrition he needs! ALSO, I'm thinking I may be battling thrush. I don't know for sure though. The pain is not unbearable, but my nipples are pink are raw feeling (I just thought it was from pumping like crazy with the suction turned all the way up). I have some pains in my breast after pumping but my terrible...could this be thrush? I don't have any way of telling by my babe b/c he hasn't nursed in weeks! :(
Could he have it as well...even if he doesn't nurse??? Just looking for some answers! THANKS!

[MaryJaneLouise]

The one LC that I have been working with said it works pretty fast so I was really excited about trying it UNTIL the other LC I know printed out all of these warnings against Dom and told me that a low supply wasn't worth my children losing their mother over! She sounded pretty serious about me NOT taking the DOM. I'm SO confused/frustrated/emotional etc.

Well, I'm not a health professional, so I can't really tell you what to do.

I would advise you to read as much as you can about the Dom. I've been taking it for at least 6 months now, with no problem, and know many, many other women who are taking it as well.

Have you read up on Kellymom and the BFAR site about this?

http://www.kellymom.com/health/meds/prescript_galactagogue.html
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/19a-domperidone1.html
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/19b-domperidone2.html

http://www.bfar.org/domperidone.shtml

You might print these out and ask if the :nono LC has better information, or why she disagrees with all these assessments.

[mom2ken1cam2]

Thanks for this info. I had seen it all except the BFAR link. GOOD STUFF! Do you think it would be too forward to print and give to LC??

[mama-a-llama]

The pain is not unbearable, but my nipples are pink are raw feeling (I just thought it was from pumping like crazy with the suction turned all the way up).
I don't know about thrush. Are you using olive oil or any other lubrication when you pump? It made a big difference for me.

[mimid]

I have some and took it for a couple of days before realizing that I should wait until I can devote the needed time to regular pumping. I did notice more of a swollen feeling and it lasted a few days after I stopped. Next week we should be getting our help so I can start again and I will definately let you know!

[MaryJaneLouise]

Thanks for this info. I had seen it all except the BFAR link. GOOD STUFF! Do you think it would be too forward to print and give to LC??

No. I think she needs to know all the information out there about this.

Again, this is your choice, with the ASSISTANCE of your health care providers.

I know I resisted taking a drug for this for the longest time, but now I am glad I made this choice.

[loraxc]

:wave from a retired EPer. My DD has a very high "bubble palate" that made nursing excruciatingly painful for me, always. (My nipples are permanently scarred and altered from the trauma.) She also did not transfer milk very well and as a result weight gain was low and all nursing sessions were 20 minutes+. I nursed her at the breast through agony till 6 months because I knew I would not produce enough through EPing and wanted her on 100% breastmilk till then. At 6 months I went to EPing (almost--still occasionally nursed at night or for comfort) and continued to pump till she was 15 months old, when I hung up the horns in exhaustion and pride.

EPing is SO HARD. I want to give all of you a HUGE round of applause. It is kind of like having two babies--one live one and one mechanical one! I hauled that thing everywhere. I can still hear its sound in my head...

I did have to supplement, which crushed me at first, but I had tried everything short of the meds (my husband was v. opposed) and fortunately I never needed to supp more than about 4 oz/day. I just couldn't quite get all the way there. I hated that she got that formula but I had to make peace with it.

:grouphug and :heartbeat to all of you.

[TLC Tugger]

I'm using a Medela Lactina select. We have the kit and interface parts left over from our rental of that model. I can't stand the thought of trashing it. Can't anyone use it? Would it be handy to have spares?

-Ron

[HippieMamaBE]

Joining you all! I've been EP'ing for my DS for ten months now. When he was born he just wouldn't suck, I could get him to latch, if I tried for a long time, but he would never suck...so I started pumping, hoping he would eventually catch on, but he never did. I'm still sad from time to time, well, actually most of the time, that he never nursed, but I'm so glad that I can pump. It is a challenge, and there are times when I just want to stop. But, I keep on going. I'd like to pump for at least another year, or as long as I can.

How many times a day is everyone pumping??? I pump four times a day, every four hours when I am awake. I stopped pumping at night a long time ago, and I pump while driving too....

Also, at this point, I'm wondering if its possible to increase my milk supply? I'll be graduating from nursing school here in a few weeks and will be able to better keep on a supply schedule...thinking of calling my MW for a Reglan script? Any thoughts? Looking forward to this thread!

[sehbub]

I'm pumping at least 8 times a day (every three hours-ish) because DD is only 7 weeks old, and I"m trying to increase my supply, as we have some issues with that, and she's eating more every day!

Actually PAK now, since she just ate.

Ah, sleep would be so wonderful. I've only gotta wait like 10 years before I get to sleep through the night again, right? ;)

[fireant]

Thank you so much for starting this tribe!

I've been pumping with an older version of Medela's PIS since my DD was born 6 weeks ago. She was 6 weeks early and was in the NICU for 3 weeks. I was able to nurse her a little bit in the nicu but never a full feeding so she would be gavaged or bottle fed afterwards.

I've had mastitis twice, low milk supply, and I am currently battling thrush. I try to nurse her a little everyday but she is having a hard time with it. I think she has a bit of nipple confusion because now she doesn't open her mouth very wide and she chomps on me hard enough to break the skin. She gets pretty frustrated while nursing too and it breaks my heart to see her so upset.

There were so many things that I had planned for with this birth and baby that hasn't gone the way I hoped. It's so frustrating. I want the mother-child nursing bond that I've read about but it hasn't happened. We had a bad NICU experience and one of the criteria for getting her out of there was that she needed to be taking her full measured feedings every three hours for 2 days. She couldn't do it at breast alone so my DH and I really struggled with the decision but ultimately we agreed to let the nurses bottle feed her expressed milk so she could come home. I really thought it would be much easier bringing her back to the breast once I got her home but it hasn't been.

I pump every 4 to 5 hours and I am getting a good amount of milk now. For me pumping has been quite painful but I'm really hoping that when the thrush is gone it will be easier. I found that getting the bigger horn parts has made the pain lessen a great deal. Sorry for rambling.

Thank you again for this group!

[Fiercemama]

I'm a former EP'er, and had to just jump in an show my support! You mamas are awesome! EPing was exhausting at times - I remember many a night leaning over the kitchen sink at midnight cleaning and sterilizing everything, in tears and bone tired.

Here's my story. I had awful thrush within about a week of DD's birth. Nursing was incredibly painful and I dreaded every session, so I let DD nurse with an awful latch. Soon my nipples were severely abraded - I still have a deep crack in one of them, although they healed up years ago. At about 6 weeks, I finally got rid of the thrush, but still couldn't get my nips healed up. One morning I found my nipples bleeding again, and that was it. I was determined to ep. I did it for about 10 weeks, til my nipples were healed.

I had a very abundant supply, and I guess a large storage capacity, so I was able to get away with only pumping about 5 times a day. I got about 1/3 of what I needed each day during the first session in the morning. My heart goes out to all of you who are EP'ing AND struggling with supply issues.

I wanted to bring my DD back to the breast once my nipples healed, but I did know that she might prefer the bottle. Once I was ready, I planned a day where we lolled in bed, had everything we needed around us, and had lots of skin to skin contact. I didn't know anything then about techniques to get her back, but I guess it worked. She latched on at the very end of the day, and never looked back. DD is 4.25 yrs and we're pretty much finished with natural weaning (I think...).

I know that there are many different circumstances on this thread, but sometimes it helps to know that there is someone else out there who has done it. I didn't know anything about ep'ing or e'ing groups online when I was doing it. How I wish I'd had something like this. I just went on my gut instincts and dumb luck.

Oh, I used an Avent Isis. Used it when I returned to work too. Awesome customer service. I loved that I could pump anytime anywhere. I was pretty immodest - I pumped EVERYWHERE with a receiving blanket over my shoulder - parks, train stations, parades, concerts, you name it. Maybe because I had absolutely no point of reference for what I was doing.

Hang in there mamas. You will never regret the efforts you're making for your DCs. :heartbeat :throb :grouphug

[bri276]

OMG I can't believe I just found this.

I'm an EP'er. 11 months now & still going strong. Pumping 5x per day (okay, sometimes 4...heehee). DD eating about 30-35 oz per day, plus some (whole grain, organic) cereal, bananas, sweet potatoes, pears, peas, and sips my water now and then.

DD has a chromosome disorder, so she was born with a bilateral cleft palate (only behind the gumline, no cleft lip). She is also tongue tied and has low muscle tone, so I think she's be a poor nurser even w/o the cleft palate. She uses a Haberman feeder, and can drink from a cup but gets frustrated after 1/2 to 1 oz and wants the bottle back :lol she's had one surgery so far and another one is scheduled for Oct. Hopefully that will be the last one, or maybe one more.

I have an Ameda elite. I've been very happy with it. I only experienced one significant drop in supply, at around 4 months, I got 4.5 oz every 3 hrs instead of 5 oz. However, because I was making more than the baby ate anyways, this didn't affect us, and we have never had to supplement with formula (except in the NICU before my milk came in, hospital policy forced it on us).

I've had mastitis five times. I've had a blood blister pop inside my breast causing me to pump up to 1/2 oz of pure blood before milk would come out, several times over the course of two days. During that same time, I had about a month where I had chronic blisters on one breast. They spontaneously resolved and I have no idea what they were or why they happened. But they were VERY painful! glad that's over.

I'd like to continue to her second birthday, but we'll see. I'll make EVERY effort to at least continue through her next surgery, but there is a chance that after that, I could just have a mental breakdown and throw the darn thing out the window. I haaaaaaaate it. I'm so sick of it. yes, it's easier now than the 8x a day for the first few months. But it's still awful.

Like yesterday. We went to the park to check it out as a location for the baby's 1st birthday party. It was a beautiful day, the first without rain in weeks. On the way back through a quaint town, DH said "I wish we could stop for lunch." Of course, I looked at the clock, and said "Sorry. I have to pump in 1/2 hour." I really can't wait for the day when I can just say, "Sure! let's go out to lunch on the spur of the moment!"

and yes, I do have a hookup to pump in the car, but I don't pack everything every time I go out, nor do I want to! it's just not a great way to live, I feel so trapped sometimes. DD is great about playing with toys by herself for 20 minutes, usually she doesn't even have to because either I do it while she's napping or when DH is home. sorry this was so long. no one else understand ;)

[bri276]

Plus there are wonderful bonding and oral development pluses to the direct bfing.



ETA: I hope I didn't offend any of you valiant EPers. I'm not always good with words. I'm just saying that since EPing is SO hard, that she might want to TRY to continue the partial direct BFing. :)

I won't take offense where none is intended, AND I totally agree with you about the oral development bonuses, but I must say the bonding issue is complicated. Surely, for a mother who had her heart set on bf'ing, and has to deal with rejection issues, and those types of situations, bonding can be interrupted. But for me, it wasn't like that. I felt briefly disappointed that the cleft palate meant we wouldn't be able to nurse, I gave it a few tries with the hospital LCs on the off chance that it might, and then I simply gave up, gave in, and got to business EPing.

no one is more bonded to their child than I am. period. I know some people might think "well you don't know because you've never done it." Ok. You are allowed to think that. But you're still wrong if you do, because I've been to hell and back with this kid, especially with all her medical issues, and I've still had all the bf'ing hormones, and I've sat there and hand expressed into her mouth as she smiles and laughs for months. Again, I don't take offense to your specific comment, because I know you meant it kindly. But I would take issue with anyone who would look down their nose to an EP'ing mom and say we don't have the bond they do with their nursling. :lol there's no way I could have made it this far EPing if I wasn't 1,000% devoted to her, and I know she feels the same towards me. :o

[BakerALM]

ALSO, I'm thinking I may be battling thrush. I don't know for sure though. The pain is not unbearable, but my nipples are pink are raw feeling (I just thought it was from pumping like crazy with the suction turned all the way up). I have some pains in my breast after pumping but my terrible...could this be thrush? I don't have any way of telling by my babe b/c he hasn't nursed in weeks! :(
Could he have it as well...even if he doesn't nurse??? Just looking for some answers! THANKS!

I am in the same situation.. My nipples are either purple, red or white and always look irritated. I am working with my doc to figure out what is going on. Also my breasts always sting, feel like they are on fire (espeically when it is cold or I go into the frozen food section of the grocery) all the way to the chest wall. We are sure that I have Reynaud's but are not sure if that is all that is going on since it can be caused by other irritants like nipple damage from the pump, Thrush, etc.

(On a side note...why do you turn the suction all the way up? That could be causing some nipple trauma and causing your nipple to get really irritated. ???)

I have been doing alot of reading to find out what to do if I do have thrush. What I have found/deduced is that my girl could have thrush also even though I exclusivly bottle feed but she can not pass it back to me since she is never on the breast.

Love to hear the outcome on your end! I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Byeee :)

[mamanurse]

My dd and I struggled to bf for the first 4 months of her life. I saw about a half-dozen IBCLCs and worked REALLY hard to get her to bf. We made a few mistakes along the way that definitely impacted bf like going back to school at 4 weeks post-partum, using a Haberman feeder at 3 weeks, and using a nipple shield from day one.

Anywho, I am an exclusive pumper for my six month old dd. I am totally in the closet about this to my fellow nurses and some friends/family :bag:. I feel guilty that we're not nursing and feel like I'm a bad example to the profession and other people when I bottlefeed in public (BIP).

I know I should feel proud that dd never received a drop of formula, but I still mourn the loss of our bf relationship every day.

Thanks for making this tribe.

[sehbub]

I'm so exhausted, mamas. Guess I just need some encouragement to keep doing this.

DD is only 7 weeks old, but I've been pumping 8-12x a day since she was born, trying desperately to increase my supply.

Yesterday was another low day, and I was only able to pump around 6oz total. DD drank about 16oz. At almost every feeding, formula was added to her milk to get the right amount for her to drink.

I walked to the park with DD yesterday, because it was a gorgeous day. Once there, we got the usual stares and flock of people, because DD is a novelty...she is a 30wk preemie, so she's still very petite...less than 6 pounds. One mama came over to talk to me and had a babe in a sling, happily nursing away. DD started to wake up and fuss, and I reached over to the stroller and got her bottle. This woman looked at me and said, "Oh no, honey, you really should have been breastfeeding her! I can't believe you would deprive your DD of those important nutrients, not to mention the relationship the two of you are missing! You know, you should really talk to..." she just kept going on and on about how I was doing things wrong because I wasn't nursing my babe, and that I should really think twice about giving her formula, and don't I want the best for her? Shouldn't I be more concerned about her health?

I'm so tired of defending myself, and battling the dirty looks. DH wonders why I don't want to leave the house...that's why! We get stared at enough as it is for having a teeny babe, and then when we have to feed her in public and a bottle gets whipped out, we get even more stares or derisive looks. Sometimes I just feel like quitting, so that at least that way people would be right about their assumptions that I'm being a bad mama. :irked:

And, tomorrow I'm spending the day with my sister, who's flying in to DC for a business conference, and I'm trying to decide which pump to take and how best to manage pumping while we're walking around the Smithsonian.

As a PP said, this is the only place I can go where anyone understands.

I can't imagine how some of you have done this for a year or more!! I feel like such a loser for feeling like this at less than two months! :dizzy:

[bri276]

sarah, if it's any consolation, I felt WORSE at 2 months than I do at 11. much worse. I doubted myself all along.

what kind of pump do you have? have you tried any herbs or meds (or do you not want to?)

I'm sorry that mama made you feel bad. If she only knew! you should come to RI, no ones looks twice if you whip out a bottle, quite the opposite. :( though one time at Whole Foods I got a dirty look from a woman when I was in line telling my stepfather how the baby can hold her own bottle now- I must have sounded so very un-AP :lol

[mamanurse]

Keep going Sehbub!!! I lurked on your thread after your babe was born and I think you're doing an awesome job. Keep taking the dom., eating oatmeal, and fenugreek. It does get easier once your supply is established. I was pumping 12 x's per day the first two months, then went to about 8-10 x's per day. At about 3 1/2-4 months, I dropped down to 6 pumps a day. Now, I pump 5 times a day and my babe probably only needs about 4 times a day, but I'm afraid my supply will drop and her needs will increase. Keep up the hard work and don't be afraid to get a bit snippy when someone doubts your mommy skills!

They probably didn't have a premie and they are not walking in your shoes. Don't be afraid to say "Even though it's NONE of your business, there is mm in here!" and then go into your story.

You're a great mom and you're doing a good job! Don't lose faith now.

[BakerALM]

I'm so exhausted, mamas. Guess I just need some encouragement to keep doing this.

DD is only 7 weeks old, but I've been pumping 8-12x a day since she was born, trying desperately to increase my supply.

Yesterday was another low day, and I was only able to pump around 6oz total. DD drank about 16oz. At almost every feeding, formula was added to her milk to get the right amount for her to drink.

I'm so tired of defending myself, and battling the dirty looks. DH wonders why I don't want to leave the house...that's why!

And, tomorrow I'm spending the day with my sister, who's flying in to DC for a business conference, and I'm trying to decide which pump to take and how best to manage pumping while we're walking around the Smithsonian.

As a PP said, this is the only place I can go where anyone understands.

I can't imagine how some of you have done this for a year or more!! I feel like such a loser for feeling like this at less than two months! :dizzy:

Don't fret! Many of us felt and still feel many of the same things that you are feeling now! How I get though it is just telling myself that I will do it "just one more day" I don't set any lofty goals just take it one day at a time. Of course I would love to do this for as long as possible but I don't want to put any more pressure on myself than already is there from myself, family, friends and every other "normal nursing mom" out there.

I also started with a very low supply! About the same as you. Now I am up to approximately 27oz and climbing. :-D I just kept switching pumps and I self express while I am pumping to get every last bit out. It has made a huge difference. Just find what works for you...try it all and have some patience. My girl is 18wks now and her appetite is about 35oz a day so sadly I still can’t meet her need but as I see my supply grow I have hope that someday I will!
Check out the Yahoo group exclusively for EPers...it is another great resource for technical and emotional questions!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPers

Also bring an extension cord to the Smithsonian, the bathroom may have an outlet that you can run into a stall to get some privacy and not make a big deal of it. GOOD LUCK! :thumb

[mama-a-llama]

This woman looked at me and said, "Oh no, honey, you really should have been breastfeeding her! I can't believe you would deprive your DD of those important nutrients, not to mention the relationship the two of you are missing! You know, you should really talk to..." she just kept going on and on about how I was doing things wrong because I wasn't nursing my babe, and that I should really think twice about giving her formula, and don't I want the best for her? Shouldn't I be more concerned about her health?
:irked: :angry :jaw :nono :bang :firedevil
I really wish people wouldn't assume things. She probably has NO idea how hard you're working for those nutrients. Or how much you might wish for that relationship. originally posted by mamanurse
They probably didn't have a premie and they are not walking in your shoes. Don't be afraid to say "Even though it's NONE of your business, there is mm in here!" and then go into your story.
Yeah!
I think the logisitics do get better, as you get into a rhythm. It's better for me at 5.5 months than at 2. I still struggle with pumping on the go, though.
Oh, and not to be a wet blanket, but I'm still pumping 8x a day and struggling to meet his needs. I always get a little nervous when we tell newer ep'ers that they'll be able to drop pumps later, because sometimes it doesn't work that way.

[mama-a-llama]

Augh, need to vent. Right now baby is crying in his swing, and I really can't pick him up while pumping. My older daughter has been crying, gated out of this room because she was hitting him. But I just can't supervise them well when pumping.
I hate this! I feel so un-AP. I hate feeling like I have to choose between psychological development (being held, not crying) and physical development (getting bm). I know not to quit on a bad day, but some days are just so awful. And I'm struggling with supply too--I'm usually about 1 oz under his intake, and eating up my freezer stash fast.

[sehbub]

I'm sorry you're having a rough day, mama. :hug

[orangecanoe]

Carly---Oh, mama, do I have days like that as well! :dizzy: I still haven't figured out a hands free pumping set up, but know I will need to soon. I'm actually thinking it might be easier to do that and have the pump set up on the floor since dd2 is starting to like floor time. It must be hard to have supply worries on top of that. The way I think of it, is with two little ones there are still those times when one of them will have to fuss when the other needs something and I try to look at the pumping as doing something dd2 really needs. When my supply dipped, I took a weekend and pumped at closer intervals (2 hours instead of 3-4) during the day and that seemed to help. I'm also wondering if some of my supply variations aren't do to the soon to return AF? Even nursing dd1 around the clock I still got it back at 8.5 months. I'll stop babbling on here....thinking of you and hoping things look up for you soon. I meant to PM you on your other thread in the SN forum...will try to do that later!

[kathteach]

Hi,

I am soooo happy to have found this thread. I thought I was the only one. I have not read the whole thread but I just wanted to introduce myself quickly. I'm Katherine and my son will be seven weeks this Sunday. I'm taking this pumping one day at a time. I go from hating it and being angry at myself I "failed" to days where I appreciate the fact the technology of the pump is available to me so I can provide for my son.

Wishing all of you the best and looking forward to learning strategies.

[NurseLaurie]

Hi ladies... I have a three week old beauty named Annabelle and we are pondering becoming exclusive pumpers. Annabelle has a bad latch. She makes a horrible clicking noise when she eats. She will eat for 5-7 minutes on one breast and then start flailing around like she is in distress while I try desperately to get her to take some more. Yesterday her poop went green so I called her pediatrician (also a lactation consultant and all around wonderful lady) and she told me to start pumping after Annabelle eats and then bottling her the hind milk. Problem is that after she eats from the breast she is too mad to take the bottle. When I just pump and bottle her she takes the whole 3 ounces lickety split. I don't know whether to trust that she is getting what she needs from the breast, or to give myself the peace of mind of knowing she is getting the breast milk in sufficient quantity. Luckily supply isn't an issue, so we don't even have to worry about switching to formula.

Is it true that breast milk "dries up" faster if you pump? I read that yesterday and it said that exclusive pumping may dry up after 5 weeks. Sounds like crap to me, but I just wanted some assurance that I'm doing the right thing for my baby.

[bri276]

yes, it is true you will risk your supply by becoming an EP'er. even with the best pump, pumping round the clock, and taking herbs, some women just cannot produce for the pump.

I don't think EP'ing is the solution for you. I think she's only three weeks and there is still time to work on her latch. An IBCLC- not a hospital LC, not a pediatrician- should physically view you nursing to assess her latch. When people tell you to feed her bottles, no matter how nice they are, they are giving up on you and giving you what they think is an easy solution. If she is having at least six wet diapers per day, she is getting enough, and there is no need for an additional bottle. There are different reasons for green poo, sure, it could be an indicator that she's getting too much foremilk, but that's not a good enough reason to start EP'ing, put simply. Especially if it's only one day.

Please don't think I'm trying to say "you're not trying hard enough"- I don't think that- I think "you need better support from someone who can figure out WHY the latch is bad and WHAT you can do to correct it.

[orangecanoe]

Mama--Has the LC done pre and post feeding weighs to see how much she's taking in that 5-7 minutes? If you have oversupply issues or the foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, she could really be taking a lot in in that time. There are different reasons for clicking which could be from dealing with abundant milk or other latch issues. I had oversupply with my first daughter and when she was that small she clicked now and again and I was told it was a "benign click" and her way of dealing with the fast flow of milk. Green poo could be from foremilk/hindmilk imbalance or sensitivity to cow's milk in your diet. Pumping (even if it is the hindmilk) is only going to signal your body to make more milk and cause further problems with having too much milk (if that is indeed your issue).

I don't have time to look up links now, but I would recommend browsing around the breastfeeding section of kellymom.com as there is a wealth of info there. Have an LC come for a visit and not just a phone consult (I'm not clear if you've had a home visit or not) and work out latch issues and get an idea if oversupply might factor into your foremilk/hindmilk issues.

As someone who has to EP by circumstance and not choice, I can whole heartedly say I would never choose to do this. It is hard work and not the ideal for me.

[BakerALM]

I don't know whether to trust that she is getting what she needs from the breast, or to give myself the peace of mind of knowing she is getting the breast milk in sufficient quantity.

I just wanted some assurance that I'm doing the right thing for my baby.
Please don't stop nursing! This (EPumping) is a very very hard road to walk. It seems like a quick and easy solution but trust me it is rittled with many problems of it's own, just as exclusive BF has.

If you are truly worried that she is not getting enough you could talk to your LC (Get a good one!) about suplementation at the breast. You could pump after each feed and then just before she begins to fuss at the breast insert the feeding tube to increase the quantiy of milk supplied immediatly. The tube does not need to be at the breast for the entire feed. You can just slip it in the side of her mouth while she is attached.

This will definatly not solve your problem of a "bad latch" and your LC may even say that it might make the problem worse by renforcing a bad behavor with food but it also may give you a happy baby at the breast that will allow you to adjust her latch until she no longer needs the tube inserted at all. Definatly get great LC, that can make all the difference!

Check out these video's...
http://www.drjacknewman.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=42
All the video's on this sight are awsome but inpaticular check out the one called "Lactation Aid" at the bottom of the screen.

Keep us informed as to how it goes. :thumb

[NurseLaurie]

Thanks for the info ladies. My pediatrician is an IBCLC. I'm just very frustrated with the whole thing. I love nursing Annabelle. It gives me such joy to watch her eat and grow from my breast. I knew all along that I would have to be a pumping mom (at least part time down the road because I have to return to work), but I don't want to be an exclusive pumper. It's especially hard at night. Last night I just went with my instincts and let her nurse to her fill and put her back down (without pumping the hindmilk and forcing a bottle on her). Granted, she hasn't pooped much today, but she has had a number of wet diapers already. My pediatrician called me yesterday (after consulting with the local head of LLL) to have me come to the office with my nursing pillow to recreate my nursing situation and weigh her before and after. She is also calling in a physical therapy consult (at the LLL leader's suggestion) and continuing weekly weighs. I'm not sure what a physical therapist can offer us, but we will see. The problem is that she isn't emptying my breasts and they are starting to get hard lumps. I can relieve the lumps by pumping each breast once each day, but then I feel like I'm overstimulating my boobs and adding insult to injury. I guess I should post this in Challenges instead of here, but I know that if anyone at mothering knows challenges it would be you ladies. This is my pediatrician (just so you know where she is coming from). She isn't one of the bottle pushing peds that just wants to get you in and out. http://home.earthlink.net/~drkute/index.html

[SoBlessed]

We just bought the Avent Express 6 Bottle Electric Steam sterilizer, do you guys think it's worth it and does it really speed up cleaning time? Also, do you know of any sterilzers that you do not have to handwash first and can rinse only with?

[GooeyRN]

Augh, need to vent. Right now baby is crying in his swing, and I really can't pick him up while pumping. My older daughter has been crying, gated out of this room because she was hitting him. But I just can't supervise them well when pumping.
I hate this! I feel so un-AP. I hate feeling like I have to choose between psychological development (being held, not crying) and physical development (getting bm). I know not to quit on a bad day, but some days are just so awful. And I'm struggling with supply too--I'm usually about 1 oz under his intake, and eating up my freezer stash fast.

If you want, I have a lot of suggesstions to pump and not have your baby crying. I know its so hard sometimes!

[GooeyRN]

Is it true that breast milk "dries up" faster if you pump? I read that yesterday and it said that exclusive pumping may dry up after 5 weeks. Sounds like crap to me, but I just wanted some assurance that I'm doing the right thing for my baby.

Nope! I am EPing for almost 8 months, and I have a huge oversupply! (over 70 oz a day) Every persons body is different, of course. The more frequently you pump in the first 3 months (when milk production is by hormones, not just supply and demand) the more milk you will have overall. Try to pump atleast every 2-3 hours. You are doing something great for your child! You are doing your best. Keep it up!!!

[sehbub]

We just bought the Avent Express 6 Bottle Electric Steam sterilizer, do you guys think it's worth it and does it really speed up cleaning time? Also, do you know of any sterilzers that you do not have to handwash first and can rinse only with?

We have the microwave steam sterilizer, and it's just that...a STERILIZER. It is NOT a bottle cleaner (I was suprised too!!). In fact, if you put a bottle with milk remnants in it and then sterilize it, it will basically bake the milk stuffs on to the bottle. The bottles still have to be cleaned before being sterilized. All the sterilizer does is kill any bacteria that may have been left behind from washing.

That said, we do use ours all the time. I just feel better...I also put my pump parts in it and sterilize those that way. Pacifiers too (the one she has).

[mammastar2]

Wow, I'm so happy to see this thread! :thumb

I don't need it at this point, since those days are long behind me, but when I was pumping exclusively for my daughter (who's now almost 5- yikes!), I seriously had no idea anyone else IN THE WORLD did the same thing. It felt very lonely, and I would have loved to have known something like this was out there, to feel a bit less self-conscious and inadequate.

Anyway, we had major problems too numerous to mention and came to exclusive pumping when she was about 5 or 6 weeks old. I kept it up exclusively for 6 months or so, and with formula supplements for another 3, all having, as I said, no idea anyonese else did this too. She's tall and healthy, no allergies, no ear infections, and pretty darn smart, and in retrospect I'm proud we did what worked for us.

Good for all of you, and keep your heads up!

[mama-a-llama]

Has anyone decided that although they could pump their hearts out and do 100% bm, they would pump less and supplement?
The thread with the comment about the baby's needs not trumping those of the whole family got me thinking. I'm sacrificing a lot to provide pretty much 100% milk. I hardly care for my older child at all--I get lots of help from family for that. I can't really do much for myslef, go out or anything. My goal was 1 year, and then reevaluating. Since ds isn't eating, adding solids, such that he eats less, isn't going to happen. I might ask the nutritionist about starting to phase in some pureed foods to supplement. But he'll still need a lot of milk.
It would be hard to say, ok, I'll decide to give some formula. But I wonder if dropping a pumping or two and doing formula might make our lives more tolerable.

[orangecanoe]

Carly--I'm not at that point yet, but I did decide pretty soon after she stopped nursing altogether and I had to begin EP'ing in earnest that I would pump 6-7x a day and more on the weekends if I needed a boost (when I had help from my husband), but no more than that. I purposely leave a large block of the morning where I don't have to pump...pump at 8am and then not again til 12-12:30 or even 1pm on an odd day that we're out for longer. I *need* to be able to get out at least part of the day with my toddler and it seems to have helped somewhat. I also had every intention of nursing her til 2 and beyond, but pumping that long? I don't know. She hates the bottle so much even that I don't know that she would willingly take milk beyond a year. Time away from the pump in the morning is what is making EP'ing bearable for me right now. I also cut back to only pumping once during the night instead of twice. Only you know what would work for you. You are doing your best and you care deeply about your kids. Any decision you make today or next week or next month will one that is best for all of you at that time.

[BakerALM]

I did decide pretty soon after she stopped nursing altogether and I had to begin EP'ing in earnest that I would pump 6-7x a day and more on the weekends if I needed a boost (when I had help from my husband), but no more than that.
I never had a large enough supply to support her intake until just last week (4.5months old). It was hard to continually give her formula everyday. But I also made the decision that in order for me to even consider doing this until she was at least a year old I had to be resonable. I knew that if I went crazy with pumping and let it rule my life I would be able to get my supply up but I most likely would not make it to my year goal. So I chose a middle ground. I pump 6-8 times a day and only at night when my daughter wakes. My hubbie takes all the night feeds while I pump and then I take over the rest of the feed. If she happens to sleep though the night then I dont wake up to pump. It does get a bit uncomfortable but she always wakes early enough that I have been able to handle it without getting consitently pluged ducts. I am not saying that this makes it easy but it just bairly makes it manageable. :(

I totally understand how hard it is to make these decisions since their really is no "Up side". It is impossible in this situation to take care of everyones needs, compromise compromise compromise. :grouphug

[Swirly]

I stiull haven't had time to post our story, but here is where I am lately with this EP thing. I am grateful I can give her my nilk. However, one thing I hate lately is being completely unable to leave my house for any period of time because I need to pump. If I do manage to pump, eat, feed my baby, hold and comfort my high needs baby, and then get dressed - it is time to pump again. Today I went 6 hours without pumping, and that happens occasionally, when I just *have* to leave the house. I hate feeling engorged and I hate feeling panicked about my supply being adversely affected. Packing up the pump to take anywhere is such a colossal pain in the arse that I only do it when visiting one friend. Life would just have been so much easier had she nursed :(

I am fairly adjusted to this after 4 months, but sometimes it is still hard. I still offer her the breast daily, figuring I may as well since I have the milk handy and on tap. Last week she actually did nurse on both sides (like 3-5 minutes each side! HOORAY), but since then turns her head away or cries when offered the breast.

I am really grieving and angry lately, as more and more I realize that our nursing relationship was sabotaged by a crappy hospital, 2 horrible lactation consultants who just gave up on us, and a ped who didn't care enough to try to help us figure out *why* she wouldn't nurse regularly and how to help it. I think she needed cranial sacral therapy after a traumatic birth, but it may just be too late now.

[bri276]

ugh. bad few days. I've only been pumping 4x per day and I wonder if that's ok. I mean, dd is 11 months old. I'm still making as much as she needs, without ANY solid food. By next month she'll be able to drink some whole milk if I'm a bit short. (yeah, not the best solution).

does anyone ever feel a bit *jealous* that they can't just say "Eh, gave it my best shot, formula's fine?" I am friends with soooo many ff'ers and sometimes I wish I could be ignorant and just stop EP'ing and convince myself it's not worth the hassle. But especially since dd is at risk for developmental delays I want her to have every drop of human milk proteins to build her little brain, yk? and all the many other reasons.

it's just so difficult when it's late at night and I"m tired and I know I could just go to sleep instead of staying up for another pump. and lately, I have just been giving in and going to sleep instead. :( I hope I don't destroy my supply.

[BakerALM]

ugh. bad few days. I've only been pumping 4x per day and I wonder if that's ok.

it's just so difficult when it's late at night and I"m tired and I know I could just go to sleep instead of staying up for another pump. and lately, I have just been giving in and going to sleep instead. :( I hope I don't destroy my supply.

Hi,

I completely understand how you feel! I am sitting in front of the computer looking at the pump (for the past 2hrs) saying I will pump in just 5 more minuites. I mean I could already be done and in bed by now but I just cant seem to find the motivation. I go through days like this..it seems like a rollercoster. Admitily it has been better since I have found a few EPers forums and found out I am not alone. Well here goes...time to pump. booooooo:gloomy:

[mama-a-llama]

does anyone ever feel a bit *jealous* that they can't just say "Eh, gave it my best shot, formula's fine?" I am friends with soooo many ff'ers and sometimes I wish I could be ignorant and just stop EP'ing and convince myself it's not worth the hassle. But especially since dd is at risk for developmental delays I want her to have every drop of human milk proteins to build her little brain, yk? and all the many other reasons.
I totally feel that way. Ds already has developmental delays; the highest recorded IQ for his syndrome is 85. I figure he desperately needs those 8 points from bm. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, eh?
I hope your supply is fine, and that you can find motivation and energy to pump more if you need to.

[GooeyRN]

I too, am so jealous that I can not say I gave it my best shot and just give formula. I am tired. I hate my pump already. I would run it over with my truck if dd didn't need my milk. I guess she doesn't *need* it since she doesn't have any physical/developmental problems... But I feel as long as I have the milk.. She should get it, and for me to not give it to her would be selfish. And.. If she were to become diabetic or have poor eye sight later in life I would blame myself for not giving her breastmilk. But, it won't be my fault if she were to have these issues later. If I can just suffer pumping a little longer I tell myself every day... I am 8 months into this and I am exhausted!

[MaryJaneLouise]

Hi,

I completely understand how you feel! I am sitting in front of the computer looking at the pump (for the past 2hrs) saying I will pump in just 5 more minuites. I mean I could already be done and in bed by now but I just cant seem to find the motivation. I go through days like this..it seems like a rollercoster. Admitily it has been better since I have found a few EPers forums and found out I am not alone. Well here goes...time to pump. booooooo:gloomy:

:hug Have you set up a hands free system? Then you can play on the computer & pump at the same time :p

[cassdarrow]

I just saw this thread, and I have read all the way through it and I feel like I have come home. My 8th is 4 months old now, and we're EPing. She was so small when she was born she could not latch well, and now just prefers the bottle. Every now and then I can get her to latch on, but...it's rare. My last 4 babies (including her) have had growth problems. It was a relief to find out it was not a milk supply issue, but a milk delivery issue. I just finished pumping hands free, thanks to the link one of you posted to kellymom. I can't even tell you how wonderful that was!

At this point, I am lagging behind her intake. I got some "More Milk Plus", but it doesn't seem to be helping much, so I pumped every hour and a half today. I am so blessed to have some older children to pitch in with baby holding, but I really missed holding her and feeding her in the early days when pumping was constant, trying to get my supply steady.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Sorry.

[sehbub]

No worries, Cass. Ramble away!

PAK is the only reason I have any sanity left. I have to do something other than just let the pump run. Otherwise, I would lose my mind.

It's really tough for me to not just say "let's go with formula" because DD does have to get quite a bit of formula. I'm only able to produce about 4oz of bm a day, and she drinks 16-20oz daily. So her needs far outweigh my supply. Sometimes I wonder why I don't just make the switch completely, and then I look at her drinking her bottle of bm and realize she's not going to spit up, and she'll stay full longer, and she's gained 2 1/2 pounds in a month (she was 4.10 on 5/27, and was 7 pounds on Thursday!) and that can't be due solely to the formula. I have to believe that she really NEEDS my milk, otherwise I would just switch entirely to formula. It sure would make life easier

This is the hardest thing, mamas. I feel like such a newbie, because I've only been doing this for 65 days now (not that I'm counting). I'm just taking it one pumping session at a time (every 3 hours during the day, then I take the night off for sanity sake) otherwise I would get freaked out and quit.

And I am SO jealous of all those women who can breastfeed their babies anytime they want, anywhere. I can't imagine how wonderful it would be to pop a screaming baby on the boob and find their needs met, instead of waiting for a bottle to warm up, or the water to get warm enough to mix the formula. LUCKY!

[mamanurse]

I HATE the pump!!!!!:gloomy: I pump 5 times a day and get about 28-35 oz. Enough for dd's needs without formula, but I have had that thought about switching to ff too:duck: It's just so hard to find time to pump, especially when I can't put dd down (she's been getting upset recently). We are all doing the best we can giving mm to our precious babes. I know I'm definitely giving up the pump when the pediatrician says "Ok, she doesn't "need" mm (or formula) anymore." I would have extended nurse/CLW, but this pumping thing TOTALLY sucks!!!

[BakerALM]

:hug Have you set up a hands free system? Then you can play on the computer & pump at the same time :p

Sadly I have been working through some "breast issues" since day one. I have talked to my LC, family doc, and OB. No one can give me a straight answer. I thought that the LC and I had narrowed it down to Reyaud's and possibly yeast but my family doc says it does not look like yeast and also my OB agrees. Also the OB says it does not sound like Reyaud's since the pain never goes away when it is cold. The only thing that cured the overall breast pain was the weather warming up to 80 degrees F but when it gets cold at night the breast pain returns. Sadly the nipple sensitivity never goes away no matter the weather and I have some white clumping on the nipple tip that led my LC to say it might be yeast. My LC got me a prescription for Newman's All purpose nipple ointment and I have been using it for a few days, both my doc and OB aggree that using the ointment won't hurt but they dont thing it is going to help the nipple sensitivity. :-(

So pumping hands free is not really an option since if I don't use compressions as a sort of counter pressure the pain is unbearable while pumping. :fever:

[loraxc]

BakerALM, have you had your baby's palate checked by an LC? Also, have they looked for tongue-tie? I ask because it sounds like you may have some kind of physical issue going on with the "fit" between breast and mouth that is causing you pain. My DD has a very high "bubble palate" that caused persistent nursing pain and also inefficient milk transfer (she *could* get enough but she nursed for very long intervals).

[BakerALM]

BakerALM, have you had your baby's palate checked by an LC? Also, have they looked for tongue-tie? I ask because it sounds like you may have some kind of physical issue going on with the "fit" between breast and mouth that is causing you pain.

Sadly, yes I have seen abunch of LCs until I finally settled on a great one! I really trust her opnion more than anyone else (she was a midwife for years until a medical condition made her unable to do deliveries, so she moved into lactation) but it is just hard to hear other opnions from everyone else.

As of right now I am Epumping all the time while working on trying to get my girl back to the breast. Well actually it is going very poorly so odds are I will be Epumping forever. :-( So I know the pain is not caused by any malformation in her mouth. But when she was nursing my LC decribed her as having a "cronically short latch", meaning she did not want to take the breast deep enough so I was left with the nipple being chomped on! Also she had a tendency to bite everytime she sucked and with her short latch that issue was extremly painful. Not to mention my phyiscal breast issues that remaned undiagnosed until I went EPumping since everyone thought all the pain was caused by exclusivly by her poor latch. So when we added all the little problems up (oh I forgot to mention that I was told to give her a bottle at the hospital to give my breasts time to heal and me not knowing any better I trusted their opnion. That just made everyother problem worse.) we ended up with one huge problem!:dizzy: That is just the short version of the story....I actually wrote the long version out and wow it is like a mini novel! I will spare you the agony!:gloomy:

[pemja]

This is my first post here. I'm thrilled to see this thread, as my daughter was born with a cleft palate the beginning of April. She's three months now, and I have been pumping exclusively since she can't breastfeed. I have a ton of breastmilk in the freezer from the first month when I was building up here supply. Unfortunately, she won't take any of it....I'm assuming becuase there is some colostrom in it?? Don't know....has anyone else encountered that? Unfortunately, she had her first bottle of formula yesterday. I'm down to pumping four times a day and I am just barely keeping up. If I pump more, I find my 22 month old and my four year old bear the brunt of lost time.

[bri276]

pemja- :hug my dd has a cleft palate too.

have you tried different types of freezer bags? I know you're not making enough to freeze anymore but my dd hated the plastic taste (and smell) that the medela bags produced, once I switched to gerber she's only refused the milk once.

four times a day probably will not keep your supply up. if you can *possibly* push it to five times, it would be more ideal. at the same time- I"M SURE you are right about losing time with the other kids!!! I'm not sure how long you pump for but if you can go a half an hour hopefully that will help.

I've also heard some women have had success with "mother love" tincture, it's available in health food stores.


ETA: do you ever wish that they made bottles that said "BREASTMILK" on them so when you're out in public feeding your baby you could still be sort of NIP? :lol

[pemja]

Thanks bri276. Good idea about the plastic bags -- that's what I'm using. I'm trying to pump for longer periods (close to 30 minutes) now that I'm only doing it four times a day. I've timed it now for naptime & bedtime so that I have long stretches I can relax....instead of trying to rush through it before lunchtime and dinnertime when the kids are crazy.

Do you feed your daughter with the Haberman? I wasn't able to breastfeed my first child (long story), but did so with my second one. Now with my experiences once again with bottles for our third, I find it's easier for me to feed in public with the Haberman. It probably shouldn't be, but it is. Since lots of people ask me what kind of bottle it is, and I can then tell them about her cleft and how I pump and feed it to her in a special bottle. I remember feeling awful about feeding our first in public with a bottle, but for some reason it doesn't seem as difficult this time around. I guess I'm a more seasoned mom too, so I don't care as much about what other people think. I know I just do the best I can providing for my kids. If others want to judge, then let them.

[bri276]

yes, we use the Haberman. I guess my thing with the bottles isn't so much what other people think - because around here, almost everyone uses formula- as much as the fact that I can't promote bf'ing like I wanted to. oh well!
it's weird, people never ask me about the Haberman anymore. I remember one person said "Hmm they make such strange bottles for babies nowadays" She felt a little sheepish when I said what it was for! does your baby have a cleft lip? mine does not, so everyone is shocked when I tell them about the palate.

[pemja]

Yes, my dd has just a cleft palate too, so folks are surprised if they are not aware of the differences between lip & palate. Is there a forum for babies with birth defects? It would be great to communicate with others who have been through the same, especially as my dd's surgery approaches in December.

[GooeyRN]

I am just getting over Mastitis. I used to get about 75 oz a day from EPing, but now I am down to about 52 and dropping further.. My dd is a big eater, has days where she eats 46 oz. Does your supply eventually come back up?

[sehbub]

Well, ladies, my time here has come to an end. After 10 weeks, my milk has completely dried up. Pumping gets nothing anymore, and DD still can not/will not latch, no matter what we tried. I am completely heartbroken that my ability to provide the best for her ended so quickly, but am grateful that I was able to give her as much as I did. I have to believe that she wouldn't have stayed so healthy or recovered from her 3lb birth weight so quickly if she hadn't received any of my milk.

I am so grateful for all of your support through all of this, and will continue to lurk just in case I can help any other mamas. In the meantime, I thank you for helping me through my rough days and showing me the light at the end of the tunnel.

:clap :grouphug

Bri276, when I got my Medela Lactina Select from the hospital, the bottles it came with said: "Breastmilk: From Mother With Love" and "Nature's #1 Best Food: Mother's Milk" on them. :)

[fireant]

Bri276, when I got my Medela Lactina Select from the hospital, the bottles it came with said: "Breastmilk: From Mother With Love" and "Nature's #1 Best Food: Mother's Milk" on them. :)

And my little Medela bottles say "100% Breastmilk" on the sides.

[mamanurse]

I've seen a few new members that are EPers that may not see this thread so far back. I'm giving it a :bump:

[bri276]

thanks for bumping! just in time for me to "brag" that I hit my one YEAR mark on Thursday!! and still going, indefinitely. sigh.

[GooeyRN]

One year! Congrats! How long do you plan on pumping for? I have 3 months and one week to hit a year. Then I plan on reducing my pumps. I am still at 10 a day, getting 55 oz a day. I was getting more(75 oz/day), but mastitis killed that! I will probably stay at 4 pumps a day or so for as long as I can handle it. How long does everyone here plan on pumping for?

[ApplePieBaby]

I plan on pumping til my daughter gets out of the NICU, then we will try to nurse... if she won't I guess I'll keep on pumping LOL

I have a question- can you get thrush if you are EPing?

[GooeyRN]

Yep, you can get thrush. I was just treated for it last month.

[bri276]

well she has either one or two more cleft palate surgeries. so I'm going to see how my supply is after the next one, if it's still good enough, I'll keep going until she's two or if she needs another surgery I'll keep going until it's over. I'd like to make it to 24 months. But I doubt I will have the supply or the determination to make it past 18. :lol

[melbb]

I plan on pumping for one year. It is hard to stay motivated, sometimes. I don't have a great supply (26 oz) and have to pump 30 minutes at a time for 5x/day. Increasing pump sessions, herbs, dom, none of that makes a difference. And I get plugged ducts all the time. Have had mastitis 3 times. Had a couple of bad plugged nipple pores, one of which made an entire side of my breast a lumpy mess because it couldn't empty. Every time something like that happens, I want to stop. I know oversupply can be a curse, but I would love to be able to just pump 4x/day for 15 minutes at a time and get a huge freezer stash so I can stop pumping before a year. I may go beyond a year, but only if I can cut back to pumping 2x/day and just supplement as needed. I don't think I could continue spending so much time doing it. I admore people that do.

[GooeyRN]

My dd is now 9 months. She was taking about 34 oz a day, but now only takes about 28 oz a day. She takes a tiny amount of solid food a day (about an ounce total) I am wondering why she is taking less lately. She does not seem sick or anything. Is this normal? I know if I were BFing I would have no idea how much she was taking in... Is it normal for a baby to take less as they get older? I assumed she would take more...

[mama-a-llama]

Well, I was planning to stop at a year. But now I'm having a dilemma. Since ds is tube fed, his whole diet is liquid. I could puree up solids but there's not much nutritional point when he could just have mother's milk (although I wonder if his drs will start telling me he won't get enough nutrition that way). I'm still pumping 8x day, and struggling a bit with supply. Even if I kept up this schedule, I probably will have to start supplementing more and more. And I really don't want to keep it up--if I could cut back to 3-4 sessions and have enough, I could do that. But I need my life back. I need to enjoy my kids and not always be telling them I have to pump.

I can get some donor milk, but not enough for all his needs. I could try to get insurance to cover banked milk, b/c of his medical issues, but I really doubt it--for a brand new preemie maybe, but not a 1 year old whose heart surgery was long ago. I'm just so afraid he'll start not doing as well on formula, or even doing very badly. Actually, they'll probably want him on Pediasure. I can't afford that AND the pump rental. And the idea of not lactating makes me sad/feel weird. I've been lactating for nearly 2 years (minus a few month during pregnancy) so it's hard to imagine not.

Thanks for letting me ramble.

[nostrow]

Hello ladies! I'm so glad I found you. My heart is going out to all of you EPers! I sucessfully breastfed my 1st daughter, in fact she will be 3 in a week and she still occassionally asks to nurse. I had Zoe February 3rd of this year and she started out nursing like a champ. Right around the 3 month mark she started to get a bit, oh how do I put it, impatient at the breast because she couldn't possibly wait the couple of seconds for letdown. Her nickname is chub-chub if this tells you anything.:lol Right about this time we also introduced a bottle because I knew I would be returning to work, since I'm the main breadwinner in the family. Well, she loved the bottle. Ever so gradually she decided to only take the bottel and for a while she would nurse at night but now even that is done. So she will be 6 months old in a bit and I've been ep for 2 months now. I am just able to keep up with her daily needs but haven't been able to put any up in the freezer. That had been stressing me out but I am thankful that I can at least keep up with her. I've been back at work now for a month and I am able to pump in an unused office (with my first I had to pump in the bathroom:( which I did for a year) but for some stupid reason I feel quilty when I leave my desk to pump. I've been real sad lately because I miss nursing and I did know we were going to be done. I was hoping at first she was maybe going thru a growth spurt or something and would settle back down but no such luck. I still offer the breast sometimes when I'm feeding her but she acts all offended and cries horribly. When it first started happening I looked for suggestions but because we needed her to still take a bottle I was told not to even try to get her back to the breast. Besides what was described to me was basically forcing her to take the breast meaning don't offer a bottle when she gets hungry. I hope to write more later. I am using a Medela Pump in Style.

Nikki

[melbb]

Hello ladies! I'm so glad I found you. My heart is going out to all of you EPers! I sucessfully breastfed my 1st daughter, in fact she will be 3 in a week and she still occassionally asks to nurse. I had Zoe February 3rd of this year and she started out nursing like a champ. Right around the 3 month mark she started to get a bit, oh how do I put it, impatient at the breast because she couldn't possibly wait the couple of seconds for letdown. Her nickname is chub-chub if this tells you anything.:lol Right about this time we also introduced a bottle because I knew I would be returning to work, since I'm the main breadwinner in the family. Well, she loved the bottle. Ever so gradually she decided to only take the bottel and for a while she would nurse at night but now even that is done. So she will be 6 months old in a bit and I've been ep for 2 months now. I am just able to keep up with her daily needs but haven't been able to put any up in the freezer. That had been stressing me out but I am thankful that I can at least keep up with her. I've been back at work now for a month and I am able to pump in an unused office (with my first I had to pump in the bathroom:( which I did for a year) but for some stupid reason I feel quilty when I leave my desk to pump. I've been real sad lately because I miss nursing and I did know we were going to be done. I was hoping at first she was maybe going thru a growth spurt or something and would settle back down but no such luck. I still offer the breast sometimes when I'm feeding her but she acts all offended and cries horribly. When it first started happening I looked for suggestions but because we needed her to still take a bottle I was told not to even try to get her back to the breast. Besides what was described to me was basically forcing her to take the breast meaning don't offer a bottle when she gets hungry. I hope to write more later. I am using a Medela Pump in Style.

Nikki

Nikki,
This is almost the exact same thing that happened with me and my DD. She didn't latch at birth and never really nursed like a champ, but also was impatient and got spoiled with a bottle (in combination with me having a supply issue at the same time). She just screams at me, too. Good luck to you and I am sorry BFing didn't work out.
Melanie

[Mamapadawan]

it's good to see an EPing thread! I'll give a quick synopsis of my story, and how I wound up EPing for 13 months:

I had my son on 11/30/04. He had absolutely no interest in breastfeeding at all, and didn't even have any rooting or sucking instinct. We had no idea why, and I was very insistent on breastfeeding. Unfotunately, like so many other mom's experiences, the nurses were absolutely indifferent to my problems and simply offered formula when the typical 2 minute attempt at breastfeeding failed. But for some reason, my son would violently vomit up formula. So I pumped, and for the next 3 months, I tried every 3 hours to nurse my son. It was the most traumatic 3 months of my life. The LCs were baffled, but were certain it was my son's problem, and I was doing everything right. We even went to a feeding specialist, who was also stumped.
And then, a few days after 4 months old, he began screaming constantly and refusing all food. After 12 hours of screaming, we took him to the hospital, thinking he had bad reflux or something. The or something would up being the reason he couldn't nurse - he had a diaphragmatic hernia and required immediate emergency surgery. He was truly a "miracle baby", since a diaphragmatic hernia usually means only a 50/50 chance of survival at birth. But according to the surgeon, my son was "pinching" his hernia shut so he could breathe. Unfortunately, this meant he didn't have enough strength to nurse. I'm glad he chose breathing! I'm also very glad I pumped, since the formula couldn't be digested because his small intestine was being "pinched" in the hernia. So because breastmilk is so quickly and easily digested, it's the only thing he was able to eat.
So I EP'd for 13 months for him. It took until he was a year old before he would take any solid food, so I kept pumping. Luckily I had a very serious oversupply (max. output was about 100 oz a day), so feeding him wasn't a problem. He's now 20 months old, and I'm finally down to the last box of frozen milk for him.
EPing presented many challenges. I stopped counting at over 100 clogged ducts, and I had 4 bouts of mastitis. I learned to pump anywhere and everywhere - airports, sitting on airplanes, in baseball parks, as both a passenger and driver in a car, you name it. But the obvious need that my son could die if I didn't pump kept me going. I tried nursing my son after he healed from his surgery, but he learned to "chew" on a bottle to get milk, and attempted to do the same on my nipple. After a few weeks of unsuccessfully trying to teach him how to suck, I gave up because my poor bloody nipples simply couldn't take the abuse anymore. It took weeks for those badly bitten gals to heal.
The worst part of it was, and still is, the mourning process. I'm still mourning the loss of a breastfeeding relationship with my son, and I hope and pray that #2, due in the end of January, will be able to take my milk "from the tap".
So good luck to all you fellow EPers out there - and "positive pump vibes"!

Rach

[pemja]

Thanks for this thread! Here's our story....
My 3 1/2 month old dd was born with a cleft palate, so I've been EPing since the start. I pump four times a day and get just enough to feed her (about 26 oz a day). I'd like to be able to do more (I did at the start), but with a 4 year old and a 22 month old, it's all I can seem to do at the moment, while still spending time with the others. I'm hoping to be able to pump until a year old, definitely until she gets her surgery at 9 months.

[mamanurse]

Welcome to all the new EPers! Hopefully this thread will be more active now that New Posts and search is back up and running.

On goals....My original pumping goal, once I realized (and accepted) that I was going to be an EPer, was 1 year so dd would not "need" to have formula. Now, that a year will be coming up in 4 months, I feel I could pump twice a day for her so she could continue to have my milk for longer. We're definitely doing away with the bottle, though. I think she'll have it out of a cup or with her cereal...

[HippieMamaBE]

Hey EPers..
For those of you who have made it to 12 months or longer....did you start to have a drop in supply around the one year mark??? I've been pumping 4x/day for at least the last three months, and get enough for DS daily. I make just enough for DS, no oversupply whatsoever. In the last few weeks I have gone from getting 5.5 ounces per session, except in the am, where I usually get 10-11, to getting less than 5 ounces per session, and sometimes 8-9 in the am. I dont know what's going on, I havent been doing anything different, and my real concern is that I start my new job in about two weeks, and I'm worried my supply will drop even further. I've tried all the herbs, and they dont seem to be working. I hate to have to try dom or reglan, but I am determined to make it to 18 months pumping, so I guess I'll have to do something. Any suggestions?

[GooeyRN]

Hey EPers..
For those of you who have made it to 12 months or longer....did you start to have a drop in supply around the one year mark??? I've been pumping 4x/day for at least the last three months, and get enough for DS daily. I make just enough for DS, no oversupply whatsoever. In the last few weeks I have gone from getting 5.5 ounces per session, except in the am, where I usually get 10-11, to getting less than 5 ounces per session, and sometimes 8-9 in the am. I dont know what's going on, I havent been doing anything different, and my real concern is that I start my new job in about two weeks, and I'm worried my supply will drop even further. I've tried all the herbs, and they dont seem to be working. I hate to have to try dom or reglan, but I am determined to make it to 18 months pumping, so I guess I'll have to do something. Any suggestions?

I am at 9 months now and starting to drop a bit. Can you try to add in a few extra pumps for a few days? I hear that adding a pump overnight can make a huge difference. That is when prolactin is highest. You can also try power pumping. Pump 10 mins, stop for 10, and repeat for an hour. Do that 2-3 times a day for 2-3 days may help. Good luck.

[mamanurse]

You could also try adding fenugreek and oatmeal to your diet. I have a bottle of fenugreek waiting in my medicine cabinet when my body starts decreasing the milk production.

[mama-a-llama]

Hey EPers..
For those of you who have made it to 12 months or longer....did you start to have a drop in supply around the one year mark??? I've been pumping 4x/day for at least the last three months, and get enough for DS daily. I make just enough for DS, no oversupply whatsoever. In the last few weeks I have gone from getting 5.5 ounces per session, except in the am, where I usually get 10-11, to getting less than 5 ounces per session, and sometimes 8-9 in the am. I dont know what's going on, I havent been doing anything different, and my real concern is that I start my new job in about two weeks, and I'm worried my supply will drop even further. I've tried all the herbs, and they dont seem to be working. I hate to have to try dom or reglan, but I am determined to make it to 18 months pumping, so I guess I'll have to do something. Any suggestions?
I haven't made it to 12 months yet but. . . Do you have your period back yet? I had a drop just before getting mine back, and then again this month before getting it again.

[bri276]

well, DD just turned one on the 13th, and I've gone down to 4x per day most days. If I feel like it, I'll do 5, but that's rare. I haven't been keeping track of my exact supply amount but I'm guessing I'm down a few ounces overall.

personally, I've sort of chosen to just go with the flow, literally! I've been giving her more solids and have even given her a few ounces of whole milk at times that I didn't have enough breastmilk left over (has only happened twice so far.) She's been really getting into fruit and yogurt lately so I feel comfortable that she's getting enough, and I'm just not willing to pump more than 4x per day anymore.

However, if I do notice a big drop, I plan to take the "more milk plus" tincture. We'll see!

[Darcy37]

Can I join the group?

[bri276]

no. of course you can't.



:lol:

[Darcy37]

If Iam pumping 5 times a day and getting 20 ounces total for the day and my baby is 2 months old is that enough milk for her?

[BakerALM]

If Iam pumping 5 times a day and getting 20 ounces total for the day and my baby is 2 months old is that enough milk for her?

Every baby is different! Mine took about 18-24oz at that age but as she grew her appitite also increased. Before we added solids she was eatting between 32-38 oz . I think we all would aggree that her intake will increase before she levels out again so you might want to think about working to increase your output before she outgrows your current supply. Also it would allow you to put together a freezer stash for those crazy growth spurts. :thumb

[Darcy37]

Here is pic's of my 2 month old Athena Marie
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/Darcy38/Indeepthought.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/Darcy38/Iamsocute.jpg

[mama-a-llama]

If Iam pumping 5 times a day and getting 20 ounces total for the day and my baby is 2 months old is that enough milk for her?
That's what my ds was getting at that age, I think. He has fixed intake b/c he's tube fed. But I agree with pps that trying to increase now might be good, even if you end up with a big freezer stash. I actually donated my surplus back in the day when I had more than enough. Now I sort of wish I'd just kept it, but I guess it was nice to help someone.

[mamanurse]

Has anyone else's :cat: eaten their breastpump tubing? My wicked kitty Pagan has eaten it not once, but twice. I have replacement tubing stored in my closet for the next time I forget to put the tubing away:lol

[GooeyRN]

Has anyone else's :cat: eaten their breastpump tubing? My wicked kitty Pagan has eaten it not once, but twice. I have replacement tubing stored in my closet for the next time I forget to put the tubing away:lol

My cat does not mess with the tubing, but dd loves to chew on it. I am terrible about putting it away. Now that she has a tooth I will have to be more careful.

[melbb]

If Iam pumping 5 times a day and getting 20 ounces total for the day and my baby is 2 months old is that enough milk for her?

She will likely increase what she eats as she gets older. I don't remember what my DD ate at that time, I think she ate 25-30 oz. She went as high as 40 oz and now that she is on solids is at 35 oz. I can only pump 26 oz and cannot increase my supply any further.

[Darcy37]

Iam getting only 21 ounces a day and she is 2 months old

[orangecanoe]

Darcy-- the rule of thumb that I've read is that a babe will need approx. 2.5oz per pound of body weight. My 5 month old is about 16 or so pounds and just now started eating around 30-32oz consistently and I've been getting 35-40 ounces and just recently cut back to 5 pumps, but it took about 7-8 pumps/day and 1 to 2 pumps at night to get up to that amount from when I started pumping in April. She will eventually need more than 20 oz/day to grow at some point so I would add some pumps in and look into other ways to increase your supply to get ahead of her needs.

[mamanurse]

I took my first capsule of fenugreek today:gloomy: I was "supposed" to get AF sometime around the first of the month and haven't gotten it yet. It would have been my 3rd cycle postpartum. I just hope I'm not pg yet:fingersx:

Do any of you know how long it takes to work? I'm almost to the point of having to supplement with formula. My babe won't take my freezer stash:(

[GooeyRN]

You should notice a difference with in 3 days, maximum benefit within 2 weeks.
About your freezer stash..... I was devastated when dd would not take it! I have 3 deep freezers full! I started mixing it with fresh ebm. 3 oz of fresh, 1 oz of frozen. Then 2oz of each, then 3 oz frozen and 1 oz fresh. It took her a week to get used to the different flavor. It does smell and taste much different, IMHO. (yuck!) But if it has truely gone bad, it wont just smell yucky, it will smell like sour milk. But now she takes it with no problem at all not mixed. I am trying to rotate the stock some. Tomorrow she will be getting milk from November!

[pemja]

OK, so pumping has never been totally comfortable for me, but for the last few days I've been trying to ignore some discomfort when pumping my left breast. Well, last night in the shower, I looked under my nipple (my very large nipple) and found a 1/4 inch cut! OUCH! Looks kind of like a tooth mark (which we know can't be, since I'm EPing and my daughter doesn't even have a tooth!). Any ideas on quick healing? Unfortunately, my left breast is my high output breast -- about 5-6 oz per pump, where I only get one or two ounces from the other side.

Luckily, I have this site to search and read while pumping -- keeps my mind off the pain.

[bri276]

Here is pic's of my 2 month old Athena Marie
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/Darcy38/Indeepthought.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/Darcy38/Iamsocute.jpg


so cute!!!


pemja- ouch!!! I've had trouble with one side bleeding from nipple trauma in the past and you just kind of have to breathe through it. I think Lanisoh makes some cream for healing but I don't know where to get it. hopefully it will go away soon!

[Kaitnbugsmom]

subbing as I am now ep'ing again, manual just isn't working anymore :(

[kathteach]

Hi mamas,

I am wondering about donating since my freezer stash is getting somewhat out of control and the stuff is only good for 3 to 4 mos. I don't think we can use it all up in time.

Any ideas on how/where to donate? I would like to donate to an adoptive mom but not sure about the legality or how to find one.

[mamanurse]

I would rotate out your freezer stash rather than donating it. You can just use the frozen milk 1-2 times per day and freeze new milk in its place. This way you may be able to stop pumping well in advance of your dc's need.

[GooeyRN]

I would rotate out your freezer stash rather than donating it. You can just use the frozen milk 1-2 times per day and freeze new milk in its place. This way you may be able to stop pumping well in advance of your dc's need.

I rotate my milk. I have 2.75 deep freezers worth, and give dd 8 oz a day of frozen, so that I am continually rotating it. Milk is good up to a year in a deep freeze. If I keep rotating, I can probably quit pumping about 5 months sooner than planned. :bgbounce :bgbounce

[Swirly]

OK, so pumping has never been totally comfortable for me, but for the last few days I've been trying to ignore some discomfort when pumping my left breast. Well, last night in the shower, I looked under my nipple (my very large nipple) and found a 1/4 inch cut! OUCH! Looks kind of like a tooth mark (which we know can't be, since I'm EPing and my daughter doesn't even have a tooth!). Any ideas on quick healing? Unfortunately, my left breast is my high output breast -- about 5-6 oz per pump, where I only get one or two ounces from the other side.

Luckily, I have this site to search and read while pumping -- keeps my mind off the pain.

I had this happen in the beginning, also to my high producing breast, and it was because the cups/funnels were too small. If you are suing a Medela pump, you can buy larger size funnel thingies, which helped tremendously. If you use ones that are too small for too long, your supply can suffer. My right boob never caught up with the left again after that happened (the cuts got infected).

[SuperMarcy]

Wow am I glad to find this thread! My ds is almost 8 weeks old and I've been eping for 6 weeks. He started out latching on mostly fine-- some difficulties, but since he's my first I just figured it was a learning curve-- that we'd both get the hang of it. But nursing kept getting worse and worse. He went from mostly latching on to crying whenever I offered him my breast. He was losing weight and we were threatened by the pediatrician that we'd have to supplement. Well after consulting with both of my midwives, two LC's and la leche league it started making sense. I knew that I had PCOS but I didn't know that could affect milk supply. I started pumping to see how much milk I had, horrified to discover that with each pumping session I'd get 1/2 to 3/4 of an ounce on one side, and just drops on the other. So I started taking fenugreek and inositol, which haven't made much of a difference, and started feeding ds an organic formula. I am able to give him about 3 oz of bm a day and a wonderful friend gives us about the same amount. My dream had always been to be an exclusively breastfeeding mom-- I wasn't even going to buy a pump! So this whole thing came as a huge shock and disappointment. I still melt down every so often about the lack of breastfeeding relationship with ds. I've offered him the breast for comfort, but he just gets to frustrated, that it isn't comforting. I just keep telling myself that I'm giving him all I can. Thanks for starting this thread... it is so great to know that there are others going through similar things!

[mamanurse]

:Hug to you SuperMarcy! I'm glad you found us too. Bf can be very difficult.

We tried everything as well to get dd on my breast. Have you tried an SNS or LactAid? It might be too late for that now since your ds has a negative association with the breast, but you might be able to try it in a little bit. Then he is at least getting nourishment from your breast while providing more stimulation to increase milk production.

I hope you find some support and helpful hints from us.

[kathteach]

Just bumping up the thread and wondering how everyone is doing.
I also have a question: what are all of you doing at night? My DS has started to sleep longer but I am still waking up every 3 to 4 hours to pump. It's starting to really affect me emotionally but I"m nervous about losing my supply. The couple of times I slept in I woke up with hard boobs and blocked ducts.

Any advice would be welcome because honestly I want to throw the pump out the window and buy some formula. I do, but I don't.

[GooeyRN]

I still pump at night, every two hours, just like during the day. I am EPing for 10 months now, so that means I never sleep more than one hour and forty minutes at a time. :( I did learn to sleep while I pump, though. It made things much better for me. I prop up with pillows, hook up using a sports bra with holes to go hands free, and go back to sleep. I have a cooking timer next to me to ding when 20 minutes are up, so I can disconnect and go back to bed. I also have a mini fridge in my bedroom so that I don't have to go downstairs to drop off the milk. I sleep with the pump in my bed so I don't have to set it up each time. I do not wash the flanges between uses, I just store them in the mini fridge.

Why do I pump at night... I did have an enormous over supply. At 3 months I had 120 oz a day. By 4 months I had 75. At 8 months I got a raging case of mastitis and dropped to 50 oz a day. So I still freeze about 15 oz a day... But if I get mastitis again my supply will drop again. If I drop 25 oz a day again from mastitis... I will not have enough for my dd (averages 35 oz a day, she will not eat much solid food). So I do not want to lower my supply for fear of the "what if's". I do look forward to when she eats some food so I wont worry if I drop in supply.

[mamanurse]

I gradually started spreading out my pumping around 4 months. I was making plenty of milk for my dd (about 50 oz per day) and she had been "sleeping through the night" since ten weeks. I just went from pumping every 3-4 hours around the clock to making 5 hours at night, then 6, and now I can go 9 hours. I make 12 oz in the morning and my breasts are REALLY full when I wake up. I now only pump 5x's per day and am making a little more than my baby needs.

Gooey-OMFG!!! I can't believe you