nursing for my 12 mo old and pumping for my sister's baby

[julia_anne]

Hi there, I really need some advice. My son right now is ten months old. My sister is pregnant and she has lymes disease. It is debated on whether you can breastfeed with lymes or not, she has decided to be safe and not. BUT she has also asked me to pump for her newborn, since I will still be nursing my baby (hopefully!). I really do want to nurse my son into his second year. My question is this, I know my supply is not what it was before he started eating solids, will my supply go up once I start pumping for the newborn? Also, will my milk be sufficient enough for a newborn? i know you milk changes and am not sure if it will be nutritious enough for her...?
Thanks for any info or advice you all might have!

[mama-a-llama]

My sister is pregnant and she has lymes disease. It is debated on whether you can breastfeed with lymes or not, she has decided to be safe and not.
So she has Lyme now? How far along is she? Is it being treated? I had Lyme when I was 5/6 months pregnant, treated pretty immediately with antibiotics. My midwives tested my blood right after my baby was born, and the test came up negative (the test is controversial though). I have breastfed and am now pumping. Nobody told me not to. So I'm not sure I see why she shouldn't bf, unless there's info out there that I'm just not aware of.

[julia_anne]

Yes my sister has lyme now, she has had it for YEARS and has been on antibiotics for a few years :( I think if it is caught early it can be treated easily but not so in her case. Her lyme specialist told her that breastmilk in lyme isn't fully studied and he thinks she shouldn't risk it.
Yes the test is controversial, with the normal test that most dr.'s give there is a certain type of lyme that will NOT show up on the test. You really need to go to a lyme specialist to know for sure. She's had years of struggling with this, and was mistakenly diagnosed for years with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia (sp?). . . She is 28 weeks and is still being treated...
but I'm still wondering about me pumping for a newborn, does anyone know if my milk would be sufficient enough for her baby?

[3esmom]

I have had Lyme most of my life too. I got it when I was 9yo and did not get treated properly until I was 15. (They did not know what it was).....anyway, I will always have Lyme, I always test positive. I had three kids and breatfeed them all for many years. My oldest is 8 and NONE of them got Lyme from me. They are all healthy, very healthy. I have a Lyme specialist that I am seeing right now because after I was done nursing my 3rd my Lyme flared up and after 2 years of misdiagnosis, I am getting IV antibiotics now. I had a converstion with him about passing Lyme through Breast-milk and he said that there had been NO PROVEN cases that Lyme is passed through breast milk. The lyme spirocyte is found in all body fluids but human to human transmission has not been proven. If you look up the LeLecheLeague website, I believe that they support this. If I were her I would go for a second doctor's advice. I just don't think that her doc is that well informed. And there is no "certain types" of Lyme. It is all the same, a spirochete bacteria, Borrelia burgdorferi, being that info is incorrect, I would seek another opionion.


Here is a helpful link http://www.kellymom.com/health/illness/lyme-disease.html
As for your milk question I can not answer. Sorry.

[julia_anne]

[QUOTE=3esmom] I just don't think that her doc is that well informed. And there is no "certain types" of Lyme. It is all the same, a spirochete bacteria, Borrelia burgdorferi, being that info is incorrect, I would seek another opionion.


haha, actually I am probably the one uninformed... but I know she told me that some tests don't show it, but I must have misunderstood her description. AND I have already been through all that with her and done lots of research and I agree with you BUT her having suffered for years of her life, she doesn't want to take ANY risk of her little one having it and I respect her decision...

I still need my question answered . . . ANYBODY :)???

[jennnk]

Given how many women tandem nurse a newborn & an older child, I'd say your milk would be fine, but then again your neice/nephew wouldn't be getting it from the tap so your body wouldn't know to produce anything other than what your older child needs. I'd ask a LLL leader or see if Adventures in Tandem Nursing (I'm 98% sure that's the title) has any info.

[alegna]

Your milk will be far better than formula, though not as good as the mom's own milk. I really think that she should do more research and nurse herself though. Drs. have no training in breastfeeding.

-Angela

[Naomi_joy]

Hi all...I'm the sister that Julia was talking about.
I have a really great LLMD (doc) and we are confering with the leading pediatric lyme specialist in the US...both of them say that I should not take the chance of breastfeeding my baby. I have been through a lot of doctors that don't understand this disease...and as I finally have some that do understand it I am going to take their advice.
I DO believe that breast milk is the absolute best for her which is why I asked my sister if she would consider pumping for my baby. I realize it's not the same as MY breast milk...but as of now my breast milk is not an option so we are trying to do the next best thing...which would hopefully be having my sister pump.

So, does anyone know if we would need to suppliment the breast milk or if my sisters would be nutritious enough? Thanks in advance:)

*****
Dr. Burrascano's Diagnostic hints and treatment guidelines available on www.ilads.org in the articles and presentatiosn section... I will type out a little bit of what it says about pregnancy (I know it's not the same as breastfeeding):

"it is well known that Borellia burgdorferi can cross the placenta and infect the fetus. In addition, breast milk from infected mothers has been shown to harbor spirochetes that can be detected by PCR and grown in culture."
*****

[3esmom]

:topic


If this is true, then how come I did not pass it along to my kids? :scratch

Just curious if these doctors have proof of actual infants getting it from breast milk? All of my children are healthy and I nursed them all with a positive Western Blot. I would at least think that my oldest would have "developed" symptoms if he had it??


"it is well known that Borellia burgdorferi can cross the placenta and infect the fetus. In addition, breast milk from infected mothers has been shown to harbor spirochetes that can be detected by PCR and grown in culture."

If this is true than no-one who has chronic Lyme should have babies, or breast feed for fear of passing it on to the baby. Once you have a positve WBtest, then you have it for life. The bacteria stays with you and your always producing antibodies. I would think by breast feeding that you would pass the antibodies on to the baby, and that would be a good thing.

[Naomi_joy]

:topic
If this is true, then how come I did not pass it along to my kids? :scratch


I think basically it's a matter of "better safe than sorry". For me...the decision is a very personal one. I've struggled with this disease for at least a dozen years and if there is even the tiniest chance I could give it to my daughter through breastfeeding then I choose not to breastfeed. I don't ask anyone else to agree with my decision...just to respect it. My doctors feel that this is the safest course for me and my child and so that backs up what my gut tells me. I don't have documentation proving that Lyme can be passed (without a shadow of a doubt) through breastmilk...but it's also not documented that it can be passed sexually and we (meaning our doctors and us) are %99 sure that's how my husband got it. (we were virgins on or wedding night and he had never been bit by a tick when his tests showed up with a 4+). I just can't take that chance with my daughters health and future.

Does anyone have info on the nutrition of donated breastmilk? Thanks!:innocent

[Naomi_joy]

:topic
If this is true than no-one who has chronic Lyme should have babies, or breast feed for fear of passing it on to the baby. Once you have a positve WBtest, then you have it for life. The bacteria stays with you and your always producing antibodies. I would think by breast feeding that you would pass the antibodies on to the baby, and that would be a good thing.

Just a random thought on this...
My husband and I had acutally decided NOT to have biological children because of this very reason. It was an agonizing decision for us...but after loosing one baby, which was thought to be due to my lyme, we felt like it was the best decision. We didn't plan this pregnancy. We are THRILLED but also want to take all precautions to protect our daughter....IF we can manage to get through my pregnancy without transmitting it to her then I just don't want to take that chance (even if it's small) of giving it to her through breastmilk. Ok, I'm done:wink

[Metasequoia]

There are many, many strains of Bb, I think that is what the pp was implying, so no, not all would show up.

I too am struggling with this decision. I *think* I may have LD & have gotten it just after the birth of my 3rd Dc, who is 3 months today. I have continued nursing him, thinking that if I have LD, I may have passed it already, so why deprive him of my milk that will give his immune system a fighting chance.

I wouldn't go the donated milk route (from a milk bank) how do you know *those* mama's didn't have Lyme & were unaware? It's a scary thought when you think about all of the Lyme positive people who donate blood & they don't know...not to mention the co-infections.

My question about the breastmilk is, I wonder if the spirochetes can survive the stomach acid?

Jenn, have your kids been routinely tested? There are so many little symptoms that might be Lyme. The doctor the pp posted about recommends not treating a child unless they have symptoms and he has changed his stance on the breastfeeding. Lately he says it is okay if the mom remains on abx while bfing.

It is a very tough decision & I wouldn't trust LLL's info, they don't know what the people know who spend every waking hour studying this nasty bacteria.

As for the question about your sister pumping, I think it would be fine, she might want to work on getting her supply up before the baby comes.

[3esmom]

Erin, I have never had anyone in my family tested. None of them have symptoms. My husband has never been tested either and we have been together for 12 years!! Nobody has any health problems. My kids are all healthy, and maybe because they were not vacinated, but they have no problems. Lyme does manifest in many different ways. My doc told me that say even if my 8YO has it, then how would we know if I was to given it to him, or he got bitten himself? The same for my husband, He told me there is just no way to tell the difference.
So I dont think that anyone knows the real answers. I think that many docs take a lot of "precautions" because they dont want to be sued, hence the response, better safe than sorry. The truth is that the bacteria is found in all body fluids, so I guess docs are thinking that since it is, it can be passed human to human. All I can tell you is that despite what any doc says, no one in my family contracted Lyme from me. So should I start using condoms with my husband? Would that be a recommendation too? So any one with Chronic lyme can not have sex, kids or breastfeed for fear that it can be passed? Well all I know is that I have done those things for many years and everyone is fine.

Naomi, you story is very interesting to me, and I wish you all the best on your new baby. I hope I give you some hope knowing that all my kids are healthy and symptom free. I know the battle with Lyme all to well. I have 60 more days to go to be antibiotic free. :riblime: I have been living with Lyme for 21 years.

[3esmom]

e

[3esmom]

E

[3esmom]

2

[3esmom]

Ok I dont know HOW that got on there 4 xs, SORRY and I dont know how the delete it.

[julie128]

You can "edit" your posts and delete the text.

I think the milk will be fine, but possibly may not have enough fat. Toddler milk has less fat than newborn milk. Pumping more of the hind milk and less of the foremilk might help balance that out. When your baby starts eating solids, make sure to give fatty foods such as avocado or meat.

[TurboClaudia]

to answer the original poster's questions:

yes, your supply should increase once you start pumping regularly with enough frequency. the key will be to pump every day at the same times to give your body the cues to increase your supply.

although your breastmilk will by far be better for baby than any alternative baby milks, there is some cursory and anecdotal evidence (read: not researched because there is no money in it) indicating babies fed breastmilk intended for an older baby show physical development that is ahead of their actual age, i.e. they may get their teeth in sooner, they may practice certain developmental tasks sooner, etc. as i understand it, the difference in fat content and protein content for a newborn versus an older infant versus a toddler is minimal and not always a reason to exclude mother's milk as the optimal choice for feeding. and just to note, it does not appear to work conversely, meaning your one year old would not show signs of regression or slowed development should he regularly receive donated breastmilk from a younger baby.

with regards to your providing the mother's milk for your sister, is the plan to have sister's baby exclusively breastmilk fed or in combination with other milks? if exclusively, pumping at the frequency a newborn would eat *might* theoretically help your body to produce the right composition of breastmilk.

i'm sure this was a very difficult decision to make for your sister, and i respect her choice and find it very kind of you to make the additional commitment of pumping breastmilk for her to use with her baby. i'm glad that your sister feels confident in her medical and health care providers and their experiences after such a long journey living with this affliction.

i find the comment of "my kids didn't get lyme's and they were all breastfed" to be just as illogical and inconsistent as the comment of "my kids were all formula fed and they don't have (allergies/ear infections/fill in the blank)." for me, a parent who is informed and makes the best choice for their entire family, including their child, deserves the utmost respect. however, i also do appreciate the comments of other mothers who place value and priority on different factors when making their decisions. thank you all for sharing. i can't even begin to imagine what choice i would make if in a similar situation, but i do know that the lack of any investigative research would weigh heavily in my mind and the anecdotal experiences of other mothers would consequently have more consideration than other times.

~claudia

[Naomi_joy]

TurboClaudia,
Thank you so much for reply...all that you had to say was really helpful.

Yes, this has been a very hard decision for us but again we feel that this is truly the best thing for our daughter in our unique circumstance. Thanks again! :)

[GatorNNP]

I pumped for another persons adopted baby when my DS was 13 months and nursing several times per day. I took fenugreek and pumped more. I was one of several donors so I didn't have pressure to produce a lot, however whatever you are able to give will at least provide the baby with antibodies etc. that formula only feeding would not. The milk will not be the ideal, but would be second best, preferable to formula.

[smeep]

Hi there, I really need some advice. My son right now is ten months old. My sister is pregnant and she has lymes disease. It is debated on whether you can breastfeed with lymes or not, she has decided to be safe and not. BUT she has also asked me to pump for her newborn, since I will still be nursing my baby (hopefully!). I really do want to nurse my son into his second year. My question is this, I know my supply is not what it was before he started eating solids, will my supply go up once I start pumping for the newborn? Also, will my milk be sufficient enough for a newborn? i know you milk changes and am not sure if it will be nutritious enough for her...?
Thanks for any info or advice you all might have!

I'm too lazy to read all the replies lol so this may have already been suggested but have her go see a homeopath and see what they can do.

Also, I may be wrong, but I believe that if you nurse her baby (wet nurse) that you will start making the milk that her baby needs. Even if it doesn't do this it will still be far better than formula.

[julia_anne]

hey ladies, thanks so much for all of your input.
smeep: thanks, I can't wet nurse because we live four hours away :) so the plan is to pump and freeze and make trips once in awhile to delivier the milk . . .
Gator NNP: I would love to hear more about your experience. I will be the only donor, although I think they will probably suppliment with formula. How often do you think I should pump?

[Little Bear's Mama]

It is a very tough decision & I wouldn't trust LLL's info, they don't know what the people know who spend every waking hour studying this nasty bacteria.


I think that statement is inaccurate. If LLL dispenses info about any disease process, it is because the LLLI Health Advisory Council has studied the information and feels there is enough information to support a claim one way or another. You can read more about the council here: http://www.lalecheleague.org/hac.html

[Milkymommi]

If it is true that the disease can cross the placenta would it be possible for baby to be tested at birth or shortly thereafter to make it possible for BFing? I know absolutely 0 about LD but this just seems like a logical question. Maybe it wouldn't show that quickly? Just curious.

Also... wanted to say again like some pp's that your milk will obviously be far superior to formula though not totally ideal. I wanted to say though that another MDC mama who was a Breast Cancer survivor (www.feedmybaby.com) has fed both of her babes donated BM exclusively and both children have done wonderfully! What a precious gift you're giving.

[BlueEyedLady]

Milkymommi,

It is very hard to get a positive test because of how the bacteria live in the body. When they are dormant they will likely not show up on a test until they become active again. It's a cyclical infection. Some days you feel good, some days you don't.

Also, the most reliable test can't be done quickly. It is a draw blood and send away and wait type of test. Otherwise, your suggestion would be ideal. Unfortunately with Lyme it just doesn't work that way.

[Mama Poot]

:twothumbs :clap First of all, hats off to you for helping your sister!!! That is just fantastic. I hope she can get better and resolve the situation so she can eventually nurse. You are going to need to rent or purchase the best pump you can. Anything less will not build your supply efficiently. I do not know if you have considered this, but wet nursing the baby could also be a possibility. Not only would it stimulate your milk production better than a pump, but your sister's baby would be learning how to BF instead of feed from a bottle. When your sister is healed and is able to BF on her own, baby will already know what to do. Naturally this is something that will take a lot of soul searching and discussions between you and your sister, but I wouldn't give up on the idea.

Do not worry about your milk not being nutritious enough for the baby. Breast milk of any kind is far more superior than any formula in the world. Assuming you are in EXCELLENT health, are willing to fortify your diet in order to accomodate the demand of pumping/nursing another baby, you shouldn't have too much trouble.

When/if you do start pumping for the baby, let me know how everything goes! I'm having my second baby very soon and plan on pumping milk for my older one, who will be just shy of 12 months old when his baby brother is born. So I've often wondered myself if I will be able to handle the demand.
Good luck!!! :thumb

[Attached Mama]

You can "edit" your posts and delete the text.

I think the milk will be fine, but possibly may not have enough fat. Toddler milk has less fat than newborn milk. Pumping more of the hind milk and less of the foremilk might help balance that out. When your baby starts eating solids, make sure to give fatty foods such as avocado or meat.

If you are concerned about the baby getting enough fat or essential fatty acids (EFA's) then I would massage the baby with a high quality, air shipped, high lignan flax seed oil. It is absorbable thru the skin. I believe olive oil's fatty acids are as well, tho they are not quite the same as those in flax seed oil.