Need input on what to do about mil...

[kfowler]

Okay, so, as some of you may know from reading my other thread on this topic, dh and I sat down and had a talk with my il's about two weeks ago. During that talk, dh and I laid out some boundaries with mil and one of the things we discussed was that she could either have visitation twice a week with (my son) Jack and stay for an hour each time OR she could come by on Saturday or Sunday and stay for up to three hours. I will add that mil and dh came up with this agreement and mil agreed with this arrangement, including the time limits. It was only after the fact that I was asked whether or not I felt this was acceptable and I said it was fine with me.

Anyways, so mil had been doing really well...at least until yesterday. The past few times mil came by to visit, she left when the hour was up and she hasn't called the house except maybe once or twice during the week which was a HUGE change from the 4 to 5 calls a day we'd been getting previously. Because she had seemed to be abiding by the guidelines dh and I had set up with her, I decided to be a bit more giving and allowed mil an extra visitation day the week before last as well as going over to bil's house to swim this past weekend and allowing mil to watch the baby by herself for nearly three hours. Letting her watch the baby unsupervised by me was NOT easy for me as I do not trust this woman AT ALL but, that's another story entirely so, I digress.

As I said earlier, the problem came yesterday during mil's visit. I had called mil to tell her that she could come by for a visit after work if she wanted to and she said that she'd be over around 5pm. Problem is that she didn't leave until after 7pm, which worked out to over two hours of her being here. In and of itself, I suppose it's a small thing really but it becomes a big thing when dh and I just spoke with her about this issue and she suggested and agreed to an hour limit on visits right now.

In addition to still trying to get a handle on this new parenting thing, I have been dealing with some postpartum depression issues recently and both the doctors and dh agreed that it's probably best if my time around mil is limited for the time being since she seems to get under my skin so much and stresses me out. (Naturally we didn't share that info with mil however. As far as she knows, we just want time alone as a family, etc.)

So my question is this - should we try talking with her AGAIN (and again and again, if need be) until it finally sinks in or do we just circumvent the entire thing and only have her over for visits with the baby when dh is home? FYI, The few visits when she left on time occurred when dh was home. Yesterday, dh happened to get hung up at work so mil and I were alone during her visit. Of course, mil took advantage and stayed longer because she knows full well that she can push me around and get her way. (For the record, I know that I'm to blame for allowing her to get away with it, it's just that I have such a hard time with confrontation. Of course mil knows this and takes advantage of this fact too.)

I'd really like this whole thing with mil to get worked out one way or another, even if only for dh's and Jack's sakes. Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of having to deal with it and I can imagine that others are tired of hearing me constantly talking about it. However, while I could care less about the woman, dh and Jack both love her (or at least Jack will grow to love her in time) and I don't want this crap between she and I to interfere with that. I just really don't know what more to do. I don't feel I can continue to allow her to walk all over me and abuse the boundaries the way she has. To do so would only teach Jack that it's okay to allow people to treat you with disrespect and/or teach him that that's an acceptable way to treat others. But talking to her obviously doesn't work, as is apparent by the fact that, in just two short weeks, we are once again back to where we were before we talked with her. So what, then, am I to do?

I honestly feel that by continuing to allow her to see Jack despite her abusing the boundaries and continuing to overstay her welcome is only rewarding her bad behavior but if I don't allow her to see him then I'm accused of using him as a pawn and/or of being a bad dil for keeping her grandson from the woman. I'm totally at a loss here... :(

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[AmyAngel]

I've not been in a situation like this, but I think that this may be a "give an inch and she'll take a mile" type thing. I feel like you should try to make absolutely sure your DH will be there during her visits (I know not always possible) and stick rigidly to the schedule you'd agreed to at least for a few months until it becomes a habit. Maybe if you get stuck with her alone you could make up somewhere else you urgently need to be when you want her to leave?

If necessary, maybe you can phrase your doctors "order" in a way that includes her but doesn't make it obvious that it's ONLY her? Like just "My doctor has ordered us to limit visits to an hour at a time on weekdays" - unless you regularly have other guests staying longer than that, it should work! Call it bonding, or stress-reduction, germ prevention, or something like that if need be.

Or you could set a timer?:lol

Best of luck to you! I hope she gets the message and sticks to the schedule.

[Ann-Marita]

You need to enforce that boundary. Actually, your dh needs to enforce it. But if he won't, you can learn to. MIL isn't going to take this new rule (limits on her visits) seriously unless you & DH call her on it when she breaks the agreement. If you let this slide by, she WILL do it again, I promise.

Better to be the "bad DIL" than to be an overstressed mama! Don't have her over for a week or so - you need to recover your balance & find your center, before you can move forward with visitation with her.

If she is going to take advantage of it when you are alone (and if you can't call her on it right then), then I'd say to have her over only when dh is home. Or when you have a (real or imaginary) appointment or errand out somewhere, like the previous poster said. Or meet her out somewhere, and when the hour is up, YOU can leave (maybe to go on that errand or that playdate, etc).

But really, learning to deal with her on your own could be a very important skill to acquire.

www.motherinlawstories.com has a discussion board, most of which is about dealing with overbearing in-laws. I've found reading there give me more backbone to deal with my own overbearing inlaws (and outlaws).

[NaomiLorelie]

But really, learning to deal with her on your own could be a very important skill to acquire.

:yeah: I used to be a non-confrontational person. I still have problems with it although I am much better. Learning to stick up for yourself and family would be mightily empowering for you. And you know what? if she doesn't like you or gets mad at you, who cares? She's the one who is rude and badly behaved. If you get really empowered you should inform her of that fact. :lol

[kfowler]

I've not been in a situation like this, but I think that this may be a "give and inch and she'll take a mile" type thing.

You hit the nail on the head. Before dh and I talked with her, there was a day when she was supposed to take me to an eye doctor appointment. The baby had been up all the night before and I wasn't feeling good due to lack of sleep so I cancelled the appointment but let mil know that she could still come by and visit for a couple hours if she wanted to. I made it VERY clear, both then and a couple times before then in talking with her, that I didn't want anyone over for more than two hours at a time, tops. Regardless, mil wound up staying for a whopping SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS that day. The ONLY reason she left was because dh and I had to leave to take the baby to a doctor's appointment. Otherwise, I think she'd have stuck around even longer. :dizzy:

[Ann-Marita]

Make that barrier a big, tall, solid brick wall! Or that woman is going to walk all over you and your dh, I fear.

Gee! Over seven hours?!

Seriously, take as many days as you need to feel less upset about all this - no visits with MIL until you do. In fact, no contact at ALL for you (dh can field the calls for now). Dr. Ann-Marita says so!

(I'm not really a doctor. I just play one on MDC-TV.)

[laohaire]

I think you sent her signals that she doesn't need to be too strict about it when you softened your stance.

It seems that you will have to be strict and personally meet those guidelines - if you exceed them (by inviting her to exceed them) then you are tellng her its ok.

Next, can you think of some nonconfrontational way you can announce the hour is up? "It was great to see you" or telling Jack "OK, put your toys away and say goodbye to grandma" or something like that?

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I can tell this is really hard for you, but you really, really need to learn to say "Thanks for coming to visit and we'll see you on X day" while escorting her to the door. You can be pleasent and still hve a backbone. She won't stay for two hours if you are, literally, standing there holding the door. If necessary, roll play with a friend or your DH.

Talking to her after the fact isnt' going to get you anywhere, you need to be more forceful at the end of the visit. Don't hint, don't fume, be direct and firm.

And I agree with others that you are sending very mixed messages by not sticking to your agreed on schedule and then expecting her to do it on her own. Stick to the agreement and escort her to the door at the end of her visit.

[P,T&C'sMom]

Have you ever thought of doing something such as getting up and walking toward the door with Jack in your arms, all the while talking "with"/to Jack about how nice it was that G-ma stopped by and how you two will see her again soon? Then stand at the door and open it for her and say "Jack, let's walk her to the car"...something along those lines?

[moondiapers]

Hmmm, this would make me really nervous. By setting a "visitation schedule" you may be setting a precident for her to claim grandparent's rights later on.

[BelgianSheepDog]

I agree you should be careful about the precedent you're setting with a "visitation schedule." Also, you stated it's very hard for you to leave your son with this woman because you do not trust her. Well, I would say, don't ever leave your child with someone you do not trust!!! Those instincts are there for a reason. Don't get in the habit of teaching yourself to override them!

[boongirl]

Sounds to me like you really need to change the visitations to only when dh is home. Don't be afraid to tell her you are having a hard time with hormones and the doctor has said you need to minimize your stress. She should be told that she is part of the stress problem so that she can face the reality. You don't have to call it depression. You can just say that at this point after childbirth hormones are going crazy and you are feeling easily stressed. This is normal. Have her only come when dh is home. That will not only minimize your stress but he can help her stay on schedule.

[jlpumkin]

I think the hard thing about schedules like this is that you actually need to commit to them yourself. It can't be just on a schedule when you want it to be and then be easy going about it at others (even if it's really an attempt to be nice). The other party doesn't really have the ability to learn when a blurred line is acceptable and when it is not. I haven't read other posts so pardon my chiming in, but it sounds like supervised visitation in another setting might be more what you are looking for if this is an issue.

[Storm Bride]

I agree with the others about giving an inch. Stick absolutely to the limits you all agreed on.

It also sounds as though you'd be better off only having her over when your dh is home. She obviously gets to you, and you've got a lot to deal with right now. The post-partum period can be an absolutely wonderful time, but it's also exhausting (and iirc, you had a section, yes? so you're also recovering from surgery). You don't need the extra stress, and having your dh there would mean back-up with respect to getting her out the door.

I also want to comment on this:
dh and Jack both love her (or at least Jack will grow to love her in time)

He may not, you know. This will probably sound awful to people who don't understand about toxic relatives, but when my grandmother died, the only emotion I could actually identify was relief. I wasn't even exactly happy - just relieved. I didn't have to ever deal with her again. That was...17 or 18 years ago, and I've never felt even remotely saddened by her absence. When I got married the first time, I'd have thanked God (were I religious) for the fact that she'd already died, and I didn't have to deal with her on my wedding day. I didn't love her - her own daughter (my mom) didn't love her. You son may very well never love this woman, and from the sounds of things, he'll be better off (imo) if he doesn't.

[kfowler]

Just wanted to clarify that I don't worry for my son's safety when he's with her, at least not if she's watching him in MY home. The thing I don't trust her on is not to badmouth me to him when I'm not around. She has zero problem making nasty or snide comments when I'm right there, so why should I trust her not to do so when I'm NOT there?

And there are other things like her continued pressing me to find out whether or not I have "legal documentation" (her exact words) that states that, if something happened to dh and I that my bil and his wife (who happen to live right beside my il's) would get custody of my son. Or like this past Mother's Day when I excused myself to use the restroom, telling mil I'd be right back, and returned a minute later to find her laying in my bed (albeit above the covers) with my dh (who was sleeping at the time) and my son between them. When I tried to lay back down, she refused to move for several minutes. It was as if she was trying to prove a point, that this was HER family and not mine and that I'd better never forget it.

Add to that the fact that dh has already said several times that if anything were to happen to me that he'd either move back in with his parents or live close to them and have his mother watch Jack all day while he worked and you have one VERY threatened mommy who feels very fearful that her mil, if given the chance, would be only too happy to take my son on as her own.

THAT is what I don't trust and that is why I have only allowed her to watch him either within my sight or just inside the house when I was right in the backyard. Believe me, I'd love nothing more than to put my foot down and say that that woman is NEVER to be alone with my son but dh would never go for it and would argue that she would never physically endanger our son as well as to say that I was just being "silly" about all my other feelings on the matter.

[BelgianSheepDog]

That psychological stuff can be just as bad as anything physical and, take it from me, when she badmouths you, it doesn't just hurt YOU--it hurts your son, too. My grandmother has been in "competition" with my mother since before I was born and once I came along she decided I'd make the perfect pawn in her little power game. It hurt me as a child and now, as an adult, I pretty much dislike my grandmother thoroughly. But as a child it confused the heck out of me. I thought my mother loved me...my grandmother thought otherwise and told me so, always going on about how SHE loves me, unlike my stupid mother. It was very confusing and upsetting.

[kfowler]

That psychological stuff can be just as bad as anything physical and, take it from me, when she badmouths you, it doesn't just hurt YOU--it hurts your son, too. My grandmother has been in "competition" with my mother since before I was born and once I came along she decided I'd make the perfect pawn in her little power game. It hurt me as a child and now, as an adult, I pretty much dislike my grandmother thoroughly. But as a child it confused the heck out of me. I thought my mother loved me...my grandmother thought otherwise and told me so, always going on about how SHE loves me, unlike my stupid mother. It was very confusing and upsetting.

I agree with you and would just as soon my mil never be left alone with my son. However, dh, being the extreme mama's boy that he is, would never allow it. His argument is that since it's obvious his mother would never PHYSICALLY harm Jack, then what's the harm in allowing her to babysit him? Besides, he just dismisses the other stuff as "silly" or as me "over-reacting" and making something out of nothing. Even if by some miracle he DID go along with me not wanting his mother to babysit Jack, all it would take is for her to call up crying because I wouldn't let her see the baby, and dh would go running over there to comfort her as he always does and then he'd tell her that he was sorry and that OF COURSE she could babysit Jack. :( :irked:

[BelgianSheepDog]

Well if he likes sharing the bed with his mama, I say let him.

I know that sounds harsh but this man needs to either be a husband or be without a wife. I am dead serious.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

The more I read, the more I am convinced that your real problem isn't your MIL, its your DH. Since you are having some issues with depression, I assume you are receiving some sort of mental health care? Can you use that as a springboard into some couple's counceling with your DH? Sounds like he really needs to start stepping up to the plate on these issues.

[laohaire]

All the emphasis on what would happen if something happened to you is just ... odd ... creepy. IMO. I **REALLY** hope that I'm way off with that. I agree with the PP that your DH seems to be the primary issue - MILs are MILs, but DH is supposed to be on YOUR team.

[kfowler]

The more I read, the more I am convinced that your real problem isn't your MIL, its your DH. Since you are having some issues with depression, I assume you are receiving some sort of mental health care? Can you use that as a springboard into some couple's counceling with your DH? Sounds like he really needs to start stepping up to the plate on these issues.

I'm not in counceling at present time though I am seriously considering going back. I just went to my OB yesterday and he gave me some Lexapro to start. I was going to see how that works before trying to work counceling fees into an already tight budget.

[kfowler]

All the emphasis on what would happen if something happened to you is just ... odd ... creepy. IMO. I **REALLY** hope that I'm way off with that. I agree with the PP that your DH seems to be the primary issue - MILs are MILs, but DH is supposed to be on YOUR team.

Way creepy was my exact thought, in addition to being highly personal information. I made sure to tell my mom and several other members of my family what she'd said and added that if some "accident" befell me, they'd know where to start looking.

To be honest though, I think that her true motive was to get reassurance that my bil and his wife would be given custody so that the baby would be right next door to her. She knows darn well that if my family were to get custody that she'd be given limited visitation, which is just totally unacceptable in her eyes. So by ensuring that my bil and his wife get him - again, only if some tragedy should befall dh and I - then she would have total access to the baby at all hours of the day and night, which is, I feel, her ultimate goal.

[myhoneyswife]

I have a MIL kind of like yours. I invited her over *once* (we've been married 2-1/2 years) and did the whole, 'walk her to the door... Your car is parked where the neighbor needs to park... well, better start dinner' thing and she still refused to go. "I'm not done yet" "No, the neighbor can park somewhere else" "Oh, what's for dinner" Finally I stopped talking to her and just ignored her for 1/2 an hour longer while I cooked dinner, and she finally left. I would literally have to cuss her out and demand that she move or I was going to XYZ before she'd leave, she refuses to take hints, though she fully understands what I'm getting at.

Since I don't want to put myself in a situation where that happens (I have never cussed anyone out and don't plan to start!), now we only meet at her house where I am free to go on my own will or at some other mutual place, always with me having my own vehicle and her having hers (made the mistake of picking her up once also... Bad idea!).

Thankfully DH doesn't put up with her garbage, so he is fine with me severely limiting what I allow her to do. I call her about once a week, and I don't pick up the phone when she calls (caller ID) unless it's convienent for me, which it normally isn't. I literally have caller id for this reason only! :dizzy:

We live out of state now, and if she does come visit, she'll be staying in a hotel and not setting foot on our property. I wouldn't mind bringing the baby when it's born to see her in the hotel, go out to lunch, etc. But I am not inviting that stress into my house. She tries all the time... I've told her that she's not staying in my house and she said she'd set up a tent in the yard. Um, no. :lol

Gosh, I sound like a total jerk, but I have to do what I have to do to protect my family. She's not even *real* bad, she just is stubborn and refuses to respect myself, my family, and my house as MINE, not hers to control. DH's house growing up was full of anger, yelling, and manipulation, and I refuse to invite that into our home for either him, I, or our baby.

There's my book on the subject...

:wink Cara

[kfowler]

Hey Cara!

I don't think you sound like a jerk at all. I wish I could do what you have done and refuse to have mil in my house and have my dh back me, but she inevitably comes to him crying about how she's being left out or mistreated or whatever and he immediately sets about consoling "poor mommy", which is exactly what she counts on and why she does it.

I have considered going over to bil's two or three nights a week to swim as a means of exercising. While it's not my ideal solution, I don't totally mind mil watching the baby poolside while we swim either. (We usually go later in the evening when it's much cooler than in the daytime.) That way, when an hour or two is up and we are ready to leave, we can just say "Goodbye!" and there's nothing mil can do to stall, though she usually tries her best - she always seems to pick THEN to tell dh that she "has to tell him something". She's such a control freak.

[myhoneyswife]

Bummer. Yeah, my DH backing me really makes a difference. I hope the swimming/MIL thing works out, that sounds like it could be a good deal and hopefully pacify her enough to not go sobbing to your hubby.

Some women might give their DHs an ultamadum in this situation, but personally I wouldn't... It would have to be something that he came to on his own, at least with my DH. Maybe you could 'have' to go shopping and 'have' to take baby with you because he'll need to eat, loves the store, etc. when she's visiting longer than you'd like, leaving her without the baby? :wink I'm a big fan of avoidance rather than confrontation... :p

My MIL will not be allowed alone with my children because she bad-mouths and would try to pry things out of the kids that are none of her business and then eggagerate them to the kids and make my kids feel like mom and dad were bad or they were abused or whatnot. She's a nut :lol

ETA: Or you could just be sickiningly sweet and fake when she's around and pretend like you're just trying to be the best daughter-in-law in the world, and maybe that would annoy your DH enough that he'd want to limit visits. :P