Support for moms who can't breastfeed [Archive]

Laurel

03-19-2003, 08:31 PM

Wow! I had a feeling all of you were out there1 I'm so glad I decided to find out for sure!

I too find it frustrating that every time a ff mom pipes up with a complaint about being judged, someone tells her that of course they don't mean her, she's the exception, why would she dream of being hurt by it--and of course, what should she expect being on these boards? I wish people could understand that behind that nameless bottle of formula is a real mom with real challenges and real feelings. Sometimes I feel like some would think we are a lesser part of this community whose opinions don't quite matter as much because we must bottlefeed.

I am curious how you all cope with this in a productive way, as 1) I recognize that this is reality that isn't going away, and 2) I respect that every mom has the right to her opinion and feelings, even if they are different than mine. I DO expect it being part of a community like this, and I would really hate things to become too watered down, because I'm sure all of DO support and advocate for breastfeeding. I guess what I've had to do is sit down and remind myself that why should I let the opinions of some stranger on the internet who I'll never meet hurt me. Who really cares what so-and-so thinks? I'm never going to meet them IRL, and they're never going to meet me. I also tell myself over and over that people only put the part of themselves here that they want people to see. Maybe that mom can breastfeed, but she has something somewhere that she can't give that I can.

Someone also mentioned something else I wanted to bring up: using donated milk. It sounds like some of you have been able to do this long term, but I'm curious for how many it's really been a feasible option. I hate hearing, "I would never, never, never give my child formula--I'd get donated milk, use a wetnurse, ANYTHING but give formula." I say, "Never say never." I think this is a statement that's easy to make if you have never actually been in the situation. When people say "never", it makes me wonder things like--would breastfeeding/milk truly be worth ANY price you or your child might have to pay to do it? Not just a high price (I think we would all agree it's worth a high price), but ANY price? My feeling was that I would do just about anything regardless of how painful or inconvenient it was for me, but once my ds started becoming negatively affected (which he did after a number of months), how could I continue to push it? If you used donated milk, how did it come about? If you didn't, why not?

ITA with gurumama on the chimpanzee comment! Don't they realize how demeaning and vindictive that is?

Oh, and to all you who can breastfeed and want to give support, of course you are welcome and loved! I think there is nothing most of us appreciate more than an understanding and nonjudgmental friend and advocate. Please don't be offended by the venting.

RileysMom

03-19-2003, 08:42 PM

RE: using donated milk...

DD qualified for milk bank milk because she was a preemie. I had enough supply for about 4 months (pumping) before my supply started dwindling and she started eating more. So from about 4 months until about 11 months, I got milk bank milk (screened and pastuerized). After that, I had 2 very close friends from church that I totally trusted and that had enough milk to feed a small country! They supplemented my supply until about 16 months.

It is not easy and if DD hadn't been a preemie, I probably wouldn't have gotten as much support. People were really willing to go out of their way to help me. I'm still very thankful!

As far as the expense, dd was on medicaid for her first year and they paid for the milk bank milk, which was about $3 an OZ!!!! My insurance paid for a pump for me since dd was in the NICU. I reused the glass bottles that the milk bank milk came in for me and my friends to pump into. So, expense wise, it didn't cost hardly anything.....just alot of fighting to qualify for the milk, etc....

mama2girls

03-19-2003, 08:53 PM

I am so glad that the milk bank was there for you. It makes me feel good to know that there are babies who benefit! We just got a local milk bank this summer and altho I can't donate (antidepressant that I really can't go off), I support them financially. And I donate all my formula samples to our local food pantry for the crisis nursery. And why do I get dirty looks for telling other bfing moms that I DO take the freebies from the manufacturers. If I were in crisis, I would want to know that someone could feed my baby. It's not fair, is it ladies? Either you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

And I love this quote: Maybe that mom can breastfeed, but she has something somewhere that she can't give that I can.

That's it exactly. I have had ppd with both dds. And I bet half of my days I'd trade you to feel normal and give them formula vs. being able to bf and dealing with antidepressants and mood swings and all. Ok, I'll quit hogging your thread, but I wanted to give you a big :thumb and :grouphug for doing what YOU think is best for your child.

sozobe

03-19-2003, 09:46 PM

I breastfeed, but had a dicey start, and am very mindful of how easily it could have gone another way. I was directed here by Moon, and just want to offer my support, as well. I mentioned in the thread Moon referred to that I have a friend (yes, still a friend) who purposely weaned her dd at 4 months so that she could go on a solo vacation, and I find that pretty tough to understand, but I do. And going through all of these efforts TO breastfeed and not being able to... well, I'm very sad that you're judged for that.

mom3

03-19-2003, 10:37 PM

Just wanted to offer my support to all you dedicated mothers here. I've been very lucky in that bf is no problem for me. It is a secret dream of mine that one day, in the not too distant future, that people will be able to assume any mother giving her child a bottle is doing so because she truly cannot bf because support, information, and education will be available to every mother who needs it and it will be expressed bm in those bottles because the milk banks will have increased in numbers sufficient to supply every hungry baby. Come dream with me :love .

Laurel

03-19-2003, 11:19 PM

Oh, and one more thing on my mind... I think it's also hard because in the regular parenting world, people just don't understand the magnitude of the loss. I'm on a "parenting after infertility" email list, and when I've talked about my feelings of loss there, I just get told, "What's the big deal? Now you know, I couldn't bf my baby and s/he's totally bonded and healthy." They simply won't validate the loss. These are the same women who would be all over you with empathy because you lost the experience of pregnancy--nobody would imagine undermining that one--yet they can't see that for me, nursing is actually a greater loss than pregnancy at this point.

I mostly do fine with it right now. I know I made the right decisions. The main time I have a hard time with it is when he's sick and I can't comfort him that way. And I HATE having to wash and fill bottles! I long for the convenience of bf'ing.

laf369

03-19-2003, 11:35 PM

Laurel, love your screen name!!!

My very dear friend adopted their son after many years of fertility problems. She attempted to induce lactation and had a small margin of success before they got custody of their first DD. Sadly, within 24 hours the birthmom changed her mind and they had to relinquish the baby. Friend experienced some discomfort and engorgement and her breasts were painful reminders of the baby who was gone.

About two months later, after my friends had resolved themselves to a childfree existence, a pediatrician friend of their pediatrician friend had a patient who was adopting her baby out. My friend was very gun-shy (of course) and proceeded cautiously. The birthmom decided on my friends at the end of November, baby was born in December. Friend was not about to try inducing lactation once more, only to again experiencing the pain of losing another baby.

Anyway, long story short, when my DS came home from the hospital my friend (who happens to be my neighbor) was over pretty frequently and expressed a lot of regret that she couldn't bear children or nurse her baby (and some envy that I was doing both). We had a lot of talks about it and shed a lot of tears together. Attempting to breastfeed is just one of the ways we try to give our children the best possible start. She did that when she brought her baby home from the hospital.

I'm sure I've been guilty of being insensitive to FF Mamas and I'm sorry. My issues don't lie with mamas who have to formula feed, I have problems with the ethics of the formula companies who successfuly sabotage nursing relationships that would most likely succeed otherwise. I had some problems in the beginning and I was certainly tempted to give Andrew some of the free samples I received during my pregnancy and I had a history of BF'ers behind me.

Everyone's circumstances differ greatly and I will try to think of you ladies when I catch myself judging a woman I see FF'ing her baby. Even if she is part of the "stereotype" I'll feel better. I mean, how much will my judgement affect her parenting anyway?

FWIW: I cric'd my son and terribly regret it. The OB barely removed any foreskin (his glans cannot be seen unless he has an erection) so that is sorta bitterweet because he won't necessarily experience the effects a circ'd man does, but he won't be fully intact AND he had to expeience that terrible trauma for no real reason (except my own ignorance). I liken my experience with it to possibly your experiences with not nursing. I mean, at the time I didn't have all the facts, I voiced concerns about circ'ing and everyone shooed them away ("He'll look like his dad." "He'll look like his friends." "It's cleaner." "It's better for his sexual partner." ) and now I have more knowledge and so my guilt and regret is all over the place. I cannot visit the Case Against Circ board because of how badly it hurts. Sorry to go so far off topic.

So anyway, love all the mamas here and love their babes too.

Abalee

03-20-2003, 09:13 PM

I just wanted to chime in with my story...James was born in July, and I had always planned to breastfeed/co-sleep/sling/AP, etc...well, after a hospital stay at 3 days old due to a dehydration-induced fever, and weeks of lactation consultants, a wonderful LC/MD finally told me that she was pretty sure I simply don't have enough milk glands to produce a full supply...horrible as that was to hear, at some level it helped to know that it wasn't MY FAULT (or at least, it was my body's fault, but not my trying). I pumped and pumped, and all I could get was 1/4 ounch at a time - I kid you not. Anyway, James continues to nurse for comfort, and when he wakes up at night, but his primary nourishment has always been formula.

Apparently, 1-2% of women just don't have the full equipment...and although all the literature says "almost all women CAN breastfeed," I've met a decent number of women either on line or IRL, who have my problem, or some variation. And these are women who I believe have TRIED as hard as they could to bf their children. So I know I am much less likely to judge when I see a woman with a bottle. In many ways I think this has made me a much more tolerant and less judgemental parent...I now realize there are often complicated stories behind all of the choices we make. And those stories are not visible to the outside world.

It was so hard for me to accept that I'd be a bottle-wielding mama - and I am still sensitive to it when we are out and I have to pull out a bottle. I'd give a lot to be able to pull out my breast instead, but it's not a viable option. But I know that I am doing what's best for my baby, and he is a wonderfully happy, healthy 8 month old.

Anyway, this brings me to my question about solids -- James doesn't like them much, but should I try to give him more to get him off of "evil formula"? I just have no idea how to approach this. All advice welcome!

mom to James 7/14/02

Laurel

03-20-2003, 09:54 PM

Abalee, that's exactly the question I had about solids: Do ff babies need to start solids earlier since formula is not as nutritionally complete?

My ds actually loves solids. I tried to hold him off, but he was begging, so we started at 5 1/2 months. Then, during a month of illness and teething, he refused them. Now, he's been gung ho for the last week or two. I'm still not pushing much--he eats maybe twice a day, purely at our mutual convenience, and only maybe the equivalent of 1/2 small jar max.

Als, how much do you replicate a nursing-style feeding experience with bottles? Does anyone worry about overfeeding? I did alot in the first months (when he was still nursing but getting formula through the lact-aid). Now, he is very much a baby who wants to take small nips all day long--if he were nursing, he'd be the one hanging out in the sling snacking whenever the mood hit him, but never sitting down for a full "meal". I find this hard to manage sometimes, as it is not nearly as convenient with bottles that have to be warmed and washed. The instruction to not reuse a bottle that's been drunk out of if there's formula left got thrown out the window months ago! My worry now is getting him to eat enough, and I sometimes wonder if I should have gone with encouraging him to take four or five bigger "meals" a day.

Bladestar5

03-21-2003, 07:36 AM

I just wanted to remind the moms with one baby, that had low supplies, that it is possible with the 2nd baby to have enough milk. I asked the doctor why was I able to exclusively nurse this baby, but not the first one, and she said it is quite common, and that sometimes the milk glands aren't quite fully formed the first time around. :p

Celestial

03-21-2003, 08:17 AM

gurumama

03-21-2003, 08:42 AM

abalee's story got me thinking. i wonder if low milk supply is on the rise in general. could environmental issues be hurting breastfeeding? or lifestyle/stress? food/diet? when you consider how breast cancer rates have skyrocketed, could there be something going on we don't understand? i don't mean to be alarmist--just wondering... i personally know two women like abalee--first kid, pumped and nursed like crazy, but never enough to feed the babe. they relaxed, ate enough, etc.

Laurel

03-21-2003, 09:40 AM

I've been reading the book Healthy Parents, Better Babies by Francesca Naish and Janette Roberts. It's about preconception healthcare. They put infertility, pregnancy loss, difficult pregnancies, difficult births, and breastfeeding problems all along the same continuum--and feel that all these things are definitely impacted by by nutritional, lifestyle, and environmental issues. They specifically mention low supply. I don't think they're trying to put alot of unneeded guilt on women--they're just saying that our "modern" lifestyles and the things our bodies come into contact with do have a negative impact on us. They have another book, I think it's called Healthy Mothers, Better Breastfeeding. I wanted to get it, but it's $50 and 450 pages long! I would love to see what they had to say specifically about breastfeeding.

cielle

03-24-2003, 05:54 PM

This thread is so exactly our experience. I couldn't get DS to latch so I pumped for 14 months. It was such a huge and agonizing loss. I still obsess over each thing I did wrong along the way - circing, having family visit before bf was established, letting the nurses convince me he was only sucking his tongue, letting them tell me he needed formula because of jaundice, letting myself get so obsessed with the pumping schedule that I couldn't focus on trying to bf, not getting a REAL LC instead of using the hospital's, on an on.

I guess at some point I'll be able to forgive myself, but after almost 2 years, I still haven't.

We are TTCing now and I worry that half the reason I am doing it is so I can have the BF experience.

Just throwing in my 2 cents...

Celestial

03-24-2003, 06:05 PM

Abalee

03-25-2003, 08:56 AM

Thanks for the support about the possibility of having a betters supply next time around...I've heard that before and hold out hope that will happen and maybe I'll be able to do a better job of combining bf and ff.

The environmental possibility is a really interesting one...I know that the doc told me that I just don't have enough milk glands, but certainly their development (or lack thereof) could be linked to environmental causes. Ironically enough, I was a fully bf baby - to 21 months, so that's not the problem for me. I know my mom has wondered if it's something she did that caused this problem, but who knows - a part of me is just underdeveloped and I don't know how to figure out what caused it. And it's not as if millions of dollars in research money will ever go into figuring it out! Sigh. That would be the day!

I would like to ask again - how are those of you who ff approaching introducing solids? Are you doing it differently than if you were exclusively bf? I'm at a loss as to how to do it and when to wean ds off of formula. (he's only 8 mos, but nonetheless).

thanks again.

mom to James 7/14/02

cielle

03-25-2003, 09:08 AM

The switch to solids is a big issue for us. DS will be two next month and is still taking several 4 oz. cow milk bottles a day. For me, I was very liberal with the bottles while I was pumping because it was breast milk and I wanted him to have as much as he wanted, just as if he were BFing. We introduced cereal around 6 months but he didn't really take to it. He didn't really get into solids until 1 yr.

Now I wish that I had phased out the bottles and increased the emphasis on solids at an earlier age although given his disinterest in solids, I'm not sure I could have. I would definitely though make the switch from bottle to sippy cup as close to the 1 year mark as possible. At almost 2 he has a very strong will and is very verbal about his desire for a bottle. At the same time I believe bottle fed babies need to have their sucking needs met just as BF babies do. Therefore, I am also now wishing that we had used a paci.

It is a battle because I know that if he were BF the patterns would have been very different. I guess one other thing I would try (that I failed to do) would be to make bottle feeding as boring as BFing in terms of not allowing the child to run around with a bottle. In the high chair or in your arms only. One reason kids wean from bfing is they want to spend more time in the world and less in your lap. If the child is allowed to run with the bottle (as mine has) that motivation is removed.

As you can see there are many things I wish I had done differently. I think this is akin to the parent that buys her kid tons of gifts because the parents work too much or are getting divorced. It is about guilt. I feel guilty about not BFing so I let him have his bottle anyway he wanted.

No doubt it is time to get over this guilt and start doing things right for both me and him. If anybody else has a toddler they need to bottle wean and wants a buddy to talk with about it, PM me!

PuppyFluffer

03-27-2003, 07:08 AM

I have read this thread with so much feeling for those who cannot breastfeed. I have a 10 month old dd and we have had success with nursing and all is well....but I have often wondered how it is for women who cannot bf or who have such incredible trouble that they are unable to continue! I can completely understand the feelings of loss and the grieving that happens.

I have made a few lame attempts to pump so I can get a little stash in the freezer should it be needed for anything and I have given up fairly quickly as I have trouble pumping. I just decided that dd needs more milk on Saturdays when I work and she is with DH. He brings her to work so I can nurse her but I don't think it is often enough and she needs more. So...this week, I decided to pump in ernest and wow, is it hard getting much! I have a whole new appreciation for women who pump for their babies and are committed to it. And to women who try to induce lactation! Wow, I am so respectful of you and so in awe of your efforts!!!!!

I wish we had a local milk bank, I would consider donating. I can successfully nurse my baby. I would do the work to help someone who can not! I think I will look into that some more and see if there is anywhere even close that I can contribute to. I am assuming that the more I pump, the more I will get. So far, I only get about an ounce at a time.

I just wanted to offes support and let you women know that breastfeeding does not make a woman or a mother! Loving attentiveness does that! Though you cannot deny the loss of the bfing relationship, you cannot deny the loving relationship you have with your child!! Keep loving those babes!

The Lucky One

03-28-2003, 11:20 AM

Thank you, Puppyfluffer. I wish more women here could be so empathetic.

lisa

ps. Hey I live in WV too:) On the opposite end as you though, I'm right on the border with Ohio.

PuppyFluffer

03-30-2003, 01:55 PM

I have a question. Will a baby do any comfort nursing at the breast even if they don't get any milk or very little milk? For moms who have supply issues and have to supplement, do you still nurse for fixing booboos and such. I'm just wondering if the baby will even latch if they don't get much?

The Lucky One, nice to know we share the same state. I know so little about the rest of WV. I'm from Va originally, have moved around a lot and just fell in love with Shepherdstown. Do you ever get this way? Look me up if you do!

Celestial

03-30-2003, 02:23 PM

Laurel

03-30-2003, 04:40 PM

My ds would almost never consent to comfort-nurse without the lact-aid. I was making only drops or mini-droplets. I can only think of a handful of occasions where he was very sleepy or extremely relaxed when he would nurse with no milk. If I got him started nursing with the lact-aid and he nursed until he was full, he would continue suckling after I removed the tube, but he wouldn't just accept the breast with no milk.

This was one of the main barriers for me in inducing lactation. I couldn't get him to the breast enough because he wouldn't comfort nurse. And trying to hook-up a nursing supplementer every single time he might possibly need comfort soon proved to be so impractical--by the time I'd get things ready to go, either the need for comfort-nursing had passed, or he'd be screaming.

PuppyFluffer

03-30-2003, 05:18 PM

Thanks for the answers, I wondered because some babies will take a pacifier and they certainly don't get milk from it! It seems the need to suck gets met with a pacifier, why wouldn't they take a human nipple for pacification? My dd would never take a paci, but the only time I ever tried was in the car seat when I couldn't hold and nurse her.

Again, Yeah to you mommas who try to nurse in the face of problems and tons of support to those who cannot nurse.:love

Laurel

03-30-2003, 06:27 PM

A paci has a different association for a baby than a breast does. My ds, too, would always take a binky with no problem, but would not nurse a dry breast. This was very perplexing to me, but I just feel that even when he wasn't really hungry, he'd learned to associate the breast with milk. With no milk, things just weren't "right" as far as he was concerned. A paci is never associated with milk, so a baby would never come to expect the two to go hand in hand.

Abalee

03-30-2003, 09:14 PM

Hmm...I guess I'm actually a lucky one here. My ds will still nurse at night, even though I have very little milk (I know I have some, because he dribbles sometimes...). :) He used to nurse 2-3 times during the day as well, but he's pretty unwilling to do that now, unless he's REALLY tired and is ready to nap. I used to nurse him to sleep (for naps) all the time, but now that he's so interested in the world (and can move), he's harder to get to sleep. But we co-sleep, so he often nurses to sleep at night and I nurse him back to sleep multiple times each night, even though I'm basically just acting as a pacifier, since he's not getting much milk. I'm glad we can do this -- it's not the nursing relationship I wanted, but it is something to supplement our bottle-feeding relationship (which I also consider nursing and nurturing). Not sure why it works for us and not for others -- maybe because he's come to associate it with comfort, not food?

Nemmer

04-07-2003, 09:30 PM

I'm in the same boat as Lisa (Laurel) who I know from that parenting after infertility mailing list. I adopted my DS, who is 11 months, and tried inducing lactation. I was only able to do it for a couple months (about 8-9 weeks) however. I was producing milk, but only about 1-2 oz per day, and the whole process and I'm sure my stress about it interfered with my relationship with DS. So, he has primarily gotten formula his whole life.
We started solids at about 5 1/2 months, when he seemed interested. I introduced solids very slowly, much to the annoyance of extended family! ;) We started with rice cereal, for a couple of weeks, about once a day... I wasn't very regular, since it was mostly a social/play thing, and a way for him to learn about spoon feeding. I then introduced one fruit or veggie at a time, still on a pretty varied schedule, most of his diet still made up of milk. I guess I figure that even if formula is less perfect, it is still more healthy/complete than any other option I have. It has the variety of nutrients that DS can't get from one veggie per day. At about 8 mos I started giving him mixed varieties, or homemade mixtures. It has really only been the last month or two that I've made an effort to make sure he gets 3 meals per day, and a wider variety of foods. As we approach the year mark, though, I'm facing a couple of questions. First: He does have a problem with constipation, which we've tried to help with in a variety of ways -- herbs, more water, and fruit/veggie only diet (no breads, rice, etc). The fruit/veggie diet seems to help the most, and he'll drink a little water from a sippie cup, but not much. He's still drinking 24 oz or so of formula each day, plus the 3 meals. Any ideas of something else (besides milk of magnesia) that can help his poor little bowels? Question #2: For those of you who do give your children cow's milk as toddlers, do you give both formula and cow's milk at a year? I was thinking slowly introduce it, and increase the cow's milk as I decrease the formula... but I'd like some input on that.
Anyway, I don't know if I really helped with your questions at all Lisa (and others) but I hope this helps. :)

Nemmer

04-07-2003, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Laurel
My ds would almost never consent to comfort-nurse without the lact-aid .... And trying to hook-up a nursing supplementer every single time he might possibly need comfort soon proved to be so impractical--by the time I'd get things ready to go, either the need for comfort-nursing had passed, or he'd be screaming.

This was exactly my experience too. DS would never comfort nurse, but had a big need to suck and would take the binky quite well. He eventually got so frustrated with my attempts to help induction by offering the breast without the LA at first, that he essentially boycotted nursing at all! I came to the conclusion that both my main objectives of nursing were not being met. I wasn't really providing enough bm to be of much nutritive value, which was objective #1. Number 2 was the attachment and bonding experience, which seemed better with the bottle too, due to the stress. DS was so much more relaxed, and he would play with my fingers and look into my eyes while I held the bottle, whereas he mostly just fought and protested while nursing. Not every time, but enough. I know God gave me an incredible sense of peace about stopping, because I would not have stopped otherwise. I wanted to be sure I gave it my full effort, and didn't "wimp out." (not saying that any of you did, I just knew that *I* might be likely to) But, I do feel that we've been able to create a bond with bottle-feeding, even though I do long for the convenience of nursing. He still prefers me to feed him, even though daddy sometimes does. And he looks at me while he eats, playing with my face sometimes, and smiling milk-drenched smiles and laughs as I play with him. It is still a cherished time for us.

Nemmer

04-07-2003, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by cielle
I guess one other thing I would try (that I failed to do) would be to make bottle feeding as boring as BFing in terms of not allowing the child to run around with a bottle. In the high chair or in your arms only. One reason kids wean from bfing is they want to spend more time in the world and less in your lap. If the child is allowed to run with the bottle (as mine has) that motivation is removed.

Although DS is only 11 months, this is something I've kept in mind and tried to do, as well. I hold the bottle close to my chest, and even discourage turning and looking around. I figure, if he were bf'ing and turned his head, he'd lose the latch, so he can lose the bottle too. I try to treat bottle feeding as much like bf as I can. I let him snack just as I would with a breast. It's a little harder with formula, since I have to make sure it is somewhat fresh, but I don't freak out anymore if the bottle was made 2 hours ago and he wants to snack. When it gets 3 hours, I make a new one. I think I got that basic guideline from Dr. Sears' Baby Book.

cielle

04-08-2003, 07:39 AM

Nemmer-

F&V diet is probably good. Make sure he isn't overdoing it on bananas since they can cause constipation.

Regarding milk. People do it both ways. You can either slowly introduce with say 2 oz. prepared formula plus 2 oz. milk in the same bottle or you can do what we did. Basically, DS refused the milk at first so we just stopped trying. When he began eating cheerios with milk later on he was willing to accept milk in the bottle so we made the change over then. But we used formula far longer than other people usually do. The nice thing about the milk switch over is you can get affordable organic milk but not formula.

Your DS is still young so don't over do it with this, but you can adjust the water in the formula. Ie. use two scoops of formula but 5 oz. of water. He likely won't notice the difference but will get some extra water. Obviously don't get in the habit of watering down formula to where nutrition is comprised.

If it's get bad there's always the glycerin suppositories which are no darn fun :(

HTH.

annakiss

05-05-2003, 12:30 AM

It looks like I'm joining this thread awful late, but I have been mourning my loss of the breastfeeding experience ever since DS was 2 days old.

DS was born 15 days late at home with a cleft lip & palate that was not diagnosed prior to birth. I tried to nurse right away, but he just screamed. He seemed to get a little bit of milk, but was pretty upset. He didn't really seem like he wanted to nurse either. There was no rooting that I noticed.

When he was a day old, the pediatrician came to the house to check out the cleft. My mom (midwife) didn't really know anything about clefts, as most people who haven't dealt directly with them don't, so the ped came to take a look. She said that from the looks of it, she didn't see how DS could adequately breastfeed. I was having tremendous trouble with it as it was.

I got a pump to get him some food using special cleft nursers, and continued to try nursing every now and then. Every time I tried to nurse, DS screamed his head off. After that 2nd day, I pretty much gave up. My mom kept trying to encourage me to try. She thought that I could be successful, but I felt that she was adding more pressure than I needed. We moved across country when DS was ten days old, and between the move, dealing with just having a baby, and the cleft, I don't know if I really had it in me to continue trying. Every time I attempted to put DS to the breast, he screamed. He screamed when he was 3 months old, he screamed when he was 3 days old, and he's still screaming at 8 months. I still sometimes wonder though if I didn't try hard enough.

I've been pumping for the last 8 months with no problem. DS is a little baby just because of our genes, not to mention the surgeries, so his growth spurts had been relatively easy to deal with. Especially since initially I had so much milk. I decreased my supply when he was 4 months old b/c I ran out of space in my freezer, but I'm paying for it now that he's older. He's not on solids hardly at all & his growth spurts have depleated my freezer supply completely. Four times recently I've given him formula at night to go to sleep. In his first 3 months, I added formula to the breast milk to increase the calories so he could gain adequate weight for his first surgery (which we accomplished, but barely), so I knew that he didn't have a problem with it, but I've been feeling guilty about giving him the formula anyway. I've increased my supply again, but it's not enough to get much ahead of him, and when I do he just goes through another growth spurt and eats up everything I'd saved anyway.

At any rate, I'm grateful to see this thread because I really really really mourn that I couldn't nurse. Being able to pump is good because I can feed him my breastmilk, but it's not the same. I see women in my playgroup breastfeed under blankets and wonder what the hell they're hiding. If I'd been able to nurse, I'd have been brazen about it. As it is, I too feel as Abalee said:

It was so hard for me to accept that I'd be a bottle-wielding mama - and I am still sensitive to it when we are out and I have to pull out a bottle. I'd give a lot to be able to pull out my breast instead,

I almost feel like I'd like to have another child in order to be able to nurse, but I wonder what sort of feelings another pregnancy would bring up (not that I'm anywhere ready for another). I feel like my body failed me because of the cleft and though I know my chances of having another cleft-affected child are slim, I think that I would feel pressure to do it "right" the second time around.

So that's my story. Sorry for babbling on & on.

Laurel

05-05-2003, 09:31 AM

Anna, glad to have you here! Thanks for sharing your story. I can relate alot to your quandary over a second child. My ds is adopted, and now is the time that we're trying to figure out whether to adopt again or go back to ttc. A huge part of me leans toward ttc for many reasons, but one of the biggest is so I can (hopefully) nurse! Even if we adopt again, I'll try adoptive nursing again, but the thought of it really fills me with dread--after seeing my body's poor response this time around, I'm not as hopeful about inducing lactation once again. I have mostly moved on and accepted that we are a bottlefeeding family at this time, but I still have many moments of wishing I could nurse him--especially when he's sick, or hurt, or during the night. And I HATE the inconvenience of bottles! I hate washing them, lugging them around, having to mix up formula, etc. It's hard for me to understand why anyone would CHOOSE bottles.

My question for everyone is how have you introduced other liquids and particularly cups or sippy cups? I have wanted to keep bottles only for formula and have other liquids in other cups. We have bottles only while being held, and I've wanted to protect that. Ds refuses to drink from a sippy cup. Actually, he refuses to drink anything except formula. No water, no juice. I'm not sorry about juice, because I haven't been big on it anyway. But I'm concerned that he's not getting enough fluid, especially now that he eats about 2-3 solid food meals a day. I even gave up and tried to give him water in a bottle, but he wouldn't have anything to do with that either. A friend suggested having him drink from a regular cup, and he took a sip or two, but that was it. Now, no matter what the liquid is or what container I present it in, he pushes it away forcefully.

Any ideas? He's 9 1/2 months old. Am I worried about nothing? If he were bf'ing, I don't think it would be a problem at all.

onediaperinmama

05-05-2003, 01:59 PM

I'm just tiptoeing in to thank ya'll for this thread.

I'm shocked to find myself looking down my nose at the ladies in my church who produce bottles from their diaper bags. I don't know where this self righteous mama stuff is coming from.

My husband's sister died shortly after an emergency cesearean birth at 7 months gestation. They delivered our niece so that my sister in law could begin chemotherapy on a brain tumor. She had a stroke after an unsuccessful operation to relieve pressure & died two months later. Samantha, a two month premature baby thrived and of course was fed formula by her grandma. What would I have thought or said if I had passed my MIL & her motherless granddaughter in the mall not knowing who they were or what their situation was?

It makes me cry, I don't understand where this judgement comes from. It's something I dislike greatly about myself. After an extremely difficult start & extruciating first three months, I'm proud of breastfeeding & I'm pleased to encourage it by breastfeeding in public & showing those convinced by formula companies or culture that breast feeding is a natural, beautiful option. But I'm ashamed that my self righteous feelings cross over to everyone who brings out a bottle at the bus stop.

Anyway, so try to refrain from hurling tomatoes at me. I just wanted to thank you for your perspectives. It's a good reminder for me to work harder to keep that nasty little judgemental feeling from creeping up my back.

Jess

P.S. A friend of mine runs this: http://www.milkconnection.com/ - it's not a milk bank, it's a private forum where breastmilk is donated to mama's in need. I'm not sure if any of your wee ones are wee enough to check it out, but thought I'd pass the link along as an fyi.

The Lucky One

05-05-2003, 09:12 PM

Lisa, about your ds refusing the sippy cup...

What we did with our ds, is give him a sippy cup with H20 (spill-proof, of course) and let him keep it with him all day. At first, he would just play with it, shake it, etc, but eventually he got the hang of it and enjoyed giving himself drinks from it. If I remember correctly, he was almost 12 months before he really got the hang of it. At your son's age, he wasn't able to do it alone.

What kind of water are you giving him? My ds only will drink H20 if it's ice cold:confused:

I'd just keep cheerfully offering it to him. We all know you can't force a baby to do anything they don't want, but I'd say that in time he will come around. Maybe as we get into summer and it gets hotter as he's moving around, he'll want something to quench his thirst.

Good luck.

lisa

LaffNowCryLater

05-05-2003, 10:51 PM

I formula feed, my story is toooo long to type, but yes, I cosleep, no cio, feed on demand (no set feeding schedule),cloth diaper, select vax, gentle discipline, etc, etc., I really go with the whole AP parenting ways, but feel like I don't belong b/c I dont BF.
I wil say that any children I may have I will still try to BF the best I can and I pray things will work better this time.

Nemmer

05-14-2003, 10:54 AM

I have a question for you bottle feeding mamas. (I posted a new thread about this, but meant to post it here. For some reason I couldn't find this thread! So, I apologize in advance for anyone who finds this redundant. :) ) I had always planned on treating bottle feeding as much like breastfeeding as I possibly can. Today my ped mentioned that I should try to wean ds from the bottle by 15 months! I found that odd since she is rather pro-breastfeeding, anti-circ, and generally at least a little receptive to non-mainstream parenting practices. I asked if that was due to the teeth problem. She stated yes, the tooth decay, but also the risk of ear infections, and "they just don't need it any more, developmentally."

So I'm just wondering about your thoughts on this. What age did/will you wean your babies from the bottle? Is it really that horrible to let ds self-wean from the bottle like I would from the breast?

Lucysmama

05-17-2003, 11:26 PM

Hi, mamas.
My name is Katie and I am *gulp* a bottlefeeder. There are reasons why - difficult c-section, poor support, nipple confusion... but mostly: I gave up. I was drugged with Percoset, in gobs of pain from c-section, and I couldn't handle it. They gave me lots of formula to take home with me and....I used it. I think I just figured, "well, this is really hard recovering from major surgery...I'll just use formula until I feel a little less hazy and dopey. Then we'll get it down." But, it never happened. Dd wouldn't latch. I was distressed. We tried for weeks. I pumped for two months for her, and then we switched to formula.
I don't think I have ever felt guiltier about anything. Ever. I regret this every day. :( My best mama friend has a babe the same age as my dd - 15 months. They are still happily BFing. It's so hard. I love them both, but I am so envious of their nursing relationship. They seem so in synch and peaceful when they nurse. When I think about trying to nurse Lucy, I can only remember both of us in tears 10 times a day. The pressure. The frustration.
We are currently ttc #2. We are planning a home VBAC, and I really hope to BF and I will enlist every damn LC in Ohio if we have to!
Thank you for starting this thread. I was beginning to feel a tad out-of-place on MDC, despite my other AP choices. Hugs to all you ladies who are mourning BFing losses. It's tough. :grouphug

girlzmommy00

05-19-2003, 08:46 PM

Thank you for this thread. I'm currently formula feeding Lily, my 8 month old. My 2 younger dd's were born with severe/extreme food allergies and were not able to tolerate breastmilk. They were/are allergic to so many things that the only way I might have been able to breastfeed was if I stopped eating. But I kind of like to eat ; and who knows even if I stopped eating, they very well may have still reacted to my breastmilk.
Unfortunately, their allergies are way beyond just milk and soy and they both needed an elemental, amino acid based formula called Neocate. They were even allergic to hypoallergenic formulas. With Lily, we've been lucky, she can tolerate a few solids now (not much but a few things) but Lauren was not able to start solid food until she was 2 1/2. She was just on a liquid diet of her formula before then. Thankfully our ins and WIC pay for Lily's formula since it's $30 a can and she goes through about $500 worth a month.
And we did get comments. Lauren is very tall for her age, she is 46 in at 3 yrs and was 36 in at 12 months. So people would see her with her bottle and would openly comment that she was too old for a bottle. I'd explain that she was younger than they realized and we were thankful she was so tall for her age since she had a medical condition and could not tolerate eating any solid foods, ie why she had a bottle. That would shut them up real fast.
With my oldest I had to stop BF due to my PPD (needed meds that weren't compatable with BF), she also had bad food allergies but could tolerate soy and was on a soy formula until she was 2. Unfortunately, we are currently in the process of trying solids with Lily and adding to her list of foods she can't tolerate.

But to answer the question, Lily drinks her formula in a bottle and we give her water in a sippy cup. I'm hoping to start offering a serving of formula in the sippy and see how she reacts.

I wish you all well. It's difficult when things don't go as planned. I would have loved to BF the girls but wasn't willing to risk life threatening allergic reactions to do so. Take care!

sweetfeet

05-28-2003, 12:01 PM

I almost feel like I'd like to have another child in order to be able to nurse
I feel the same way. I feel like it would be a chance to redeem myself and to heal the hurting in my heart over my lost nursing relationship with Sophie. I cried for so many nights after we stopped nursing. I still yearn to hold her to me and comfort her when she cries or nurse her to sleep.
Lucysmama-Your story sounds so much like my own! I had a csection, Sophie was breech. She was born at 35 weeks. We had just moved a week before(I thought I had a month to unpack.) I had the most horrible nurse, ped and LC's in all of Ohio. I was so drugged up from the Csection that I went shopping when I was released from the hospital. Sophie was so little I had no preemie clothes and she needed some. She remained at the hospital in an incubator under bili lights for extreme jaundice. I told them I'd be back every 3 hours to nurse(I said I wanted to come back every 2 and they said no that it had to be 3 because she wouldn't be under the lights very long if she were feeding for 30 mins out of every 2 hours) I came back at 2 and a half hours because I missed her. I had at that point been in the hospital 5 days before being released. I came back and they were feeding her FORMULA! It was botched from the very beginning when I was in recovery and no one brought her to me for 3+ hours. I asked and asked. Her apgars were both 9. She was fine. I hate that place. I hate hospitals and doctors. I have a year of nursing school done and I will never go back for nursing. I cant be there. Anyhow sorry I rambled
Lucysmama where in Ohio are you? I am in Dayton/Kettering but visit Columbus/Hilliard often as my parents live there. PM me if you ever wanna chat.

luvmygirls

05-28-2003, 01:20 PM

Great thread Lisa!

I'm Elaine, adoptive mama to two girls. I haven't been here for quite a while, but have decided to give cloth diapering a try and have been researching a bit. I saw this thread, by Laurel (my friend-Hi Lisa!! Long time, no talk!) and was interested.

I've been feeling the old pangs of "breastfeeding loss" lately too. I did adoptive nursing with my youngest, Heidi, for a little over 4 months. It was stressful for me, but worth it. Just the other day I was bottle feeding Heidi and could tell she wasn't interested in the milk anymore but was ready to drift off to sleep. She refused the bottle but wanted more than just to cuddle. I wanted to rip off my shirt to see if she'd nurse a dry breast but since we were in a room full of 12 and 13 year old girls I didn't do it. I have tried several times since we stopped breastfeeding to see if she would latch and comfort suck but without success. :( I agree that I miss the convenience of breastfeeding, and the closeness it provides.

Oh, I think I hear my baby crying.

Elaine
Colorado
Mommy to Nicole (2) and Heidi (8 mos)

bananasmom

05-29-2003, 07:20 AM

Wow, I'm so glad that I found out about this thread.

I didn't bf anywhere near as long as many of you, and didn't know about mothering.com, or I would have (not that much more than drops were coming out anyhow). I didn't know about milk banks, fenugreek or domperidone. My LC and doctors seemed confused by my failure to produce milk, and my dd's startling weight loss. It took me 6 months to get them to do some hormone tests. We discovered that I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (which is now being treated), and my endocrinologist thinks this explains my experience. She wasn't at all surprised by what I described, and told me that she had seen it many times before, with her thyroid patients.

I'm happy to say that I am finally to the point that I could care less what anyone else says about my wimpy little decision to formula feed (particularly anonymous people on a message board). I know that breastmilk is best, but I feel that it was out of my hands. I did the best that I could have, with the knowledge that I had at the time. No one is a perfect parent, and I think we all do the best with what we have. Except for that bottle of formula several times a day, I think that I am a hell of a momma!

I do my best to dispell misinformation, and make my suggestions (about helping women with low supply) to authors and lactation resource sites. Oh, and I'm pregnant again, and making preparations to be more successful this time. Again, this is the best that I can do.

Thanks for starting this thread. It's nice to have a place.

Lucysmama

05-29-2003, 07:50 AM

Hugs to all of you who had difficulty breastfeeding. It's wonderful that so many moms have easy BFing experiences and are wellsupported, but I know firsthand how hard it is when things are stacked against you.
Sophiesmom, I live in NE Ohio, in the CVNP. Sorry we aren't closer!

mountain

05-29-2003, 04:30 PM

Does anyone know of a milk bank that needs milk? I feel for anyone who has trouble bfing, and I have an excess. I tried to call my local hospital, but they said they have never had it there.
Is there a freezer service or something where you could donate it? It just seems like, we milk & transport cow products, when human milk is so much better for babies.

I would be so in favor of giving any baby a better chance...especially think about babies born addicted to crack or heroine--some IGaS would do them a world of good!

Would appreciate any info

bananasmom

05-29-2003, 05:09 PM

:thumb mountain !

http://www.dietitian.com/milkbank.html

Has a link for finding a bank near you.

EFmom

06-05-2003, 11:50 AM

I'm another formula feeder also joining this thread a bit late.

Our two girls were adopted, one 11 months old and one at 14 months. I did not try to induce lactation as to me it seemed like the wrong thing to do for my girls. They were born in China, and with our adoptions, their whole worlds turned upside down. We looked funny, smelled funny, sounded funny, and of course, were taking them away from everything they were familiar with. It seemed to me that it would be just stressing them more to try to make them learn to bf, when obviously their bottles were just about the one constant they had in their lives for comfort.

I have to admit, I honestly don't feel any great loss not to have bf, but I'm not trying to minimize anyone else's sense of loss. I guess it's just that I feel so incredibly blessed to have these two magnificent children in our lives, that I end up just basking in the joy of all the positives and letting any negatives slide right off my back. If I'd had bio kids, I would have bf, but that just wasn't in the cards for us, and I wouldn't trade my experiences or my kids for all the bf in the universe.

I do agree that there's a lot of fairly nasty, mean-spirited bashing of formula feeding moms here. So true about the chimpanzee thing--what is up with that? But I try not to take that stuff seriously. I know what my relationship with my girls is like, and I'm not going to let anybody's smug self-righteousness rain on our parade. I also get a hair tired of the endless bashing of formula. I don't have any illusions about formula companies or their rotten business practices, but if it weren't for formula my kids and a lot of other adopted kids that I know would be dead, period.

Laurel

06-05-2003, 12:35 PM

EFmom, I totally agree with your last paragraph. It's taken me awhile to not get emotionally involved in all the "formula is evil" threads, and I still get frustrated sometimes with the lack of compassion and understanding. But I finally realized that it really doesn't matter what these people think! They are entitled to their opinions, but they are only opinions. Why was I letting myself get into a frenzy over the opinions of people that I would never meet in real life? I realized that my decisions and choices were between me, my dh, and our consciences. No one else.

PatchyMama

08-01-2003, 01:14 AM

heh.. can i revive this? I found it searching for something else....

I think there is almost nothing lonelier than being a formula/bottle-feeding mom in a culture of passionate breastfeeders. We often feel that we do not fit anywhere. We certainly don't fit on a "mainstream" parenting board, because our hearts are "AP". (I use those terms only for lack of a more concise way to say what I mean.) We live under constant judgment and stereotype. When we go to the grocery store, we worry about who will be making assumptions about us based on what's in our cart. We worry that they will never want to get past first impressions and give us the benefit of the doubt.

We often don't know where to turn when we need answers to questions about our child's health or to other issues, like feeding solid foods. We can't go to a regular parenting board and expect to get answers that reflect our parenting style and values. We can't ask questions here without risking misunderstanding, or simply that most people don't have experience with what we need.

All this is on top of the grief and disappointment of missing out on the experience of nursing, of having our bodies fail us, and on top of the concern for our children's well-being and how we'll meet their needs in spite of our limitations. (I'm actually not "grieving" at the moment, but I have in the past, and know many moms still are.

I feel I have to explain and tell my story so often--it gets cumbersome. But if I don't explain, I can just see the wheels turning in people's heads. I try to stay away from the "formula is evil" threads, but I can't--I just have to go see what's being assumed about me. I can't resist posting on them either.

Anyway, I'd love to hear your story, your issues, your worries, your frustrations--whatever you'd like to share about your breastfeeding and bottlefeeding experiences!

Thank you for saying that.... i think it made me cry! LOL... I can relate to sew many on this thread ... I wont go into my story cause franky im tired of feeling like I need an excuse and every time I give it feel the guilt and pain from not having that nursing relationship. However I think its important to remember that just because its a bottle.. doesnt mean its any less special... I went out of my way to make every feeding special... lots of cuddling and attachment... But I still hurt about it to this day :( and have thought many times if i would just have another I can try to get it right this time... i have the support i didnt know about now! But I also know thats a bad reason to have a child and im not ready for more....

anyway, just wanted to say my VERY LATE thanks for this thread..... :)

julie128

08-15-2003, 12:07 AM

Just read in American Baby that Horizon is now making an organic cow milk formula that is FDA approved.

PurplePixiePooh

08-15-2003, 08:46 AM

Finally I don't feel so alone! My ds is 6 weeks old and bottle fed. I have a long story about my bf'ing, but in a nut shell, poor latch NO support, LLL was not helpful, couldn't afford a LC, hosiptal LC got frustrated during my visit and gave me a bottle to feed the baby, nipple confusion, flat nipples, overactive letdown and very poor supply compunded with ppd.

I too know the feeling of being almost embarrased when having to pull out the bottle in public, I still occasionally offer him my breast as if he one day decide he wants to nurse. I tried an SNS too, but he will not latch on nad if he does hold my breast in his mouth he will not suckle, just cry a muffled cry or pull off.

I have felt judged, persecuted and looked down upon. I have seen snide glances and been snubbed by LLL after one visit and seriously seeking their help.

I am gald that this is here, I am all AP, but just because this one area is lacking some consider me a poor example at best. I grieve the loss of the b'ing every day and till wonder if I was responsible for the problems or if it ws just a bad cousre of events.

LoveBeads

09-27-2003, 07:43 PM

Thanks for this thread, sorry I'm so late in replying.

My DD is now 3 1/2 but I still have the excruciating pain of not being able to breastfeed every single day. I didn't even join these discussion boards for years, fearful that I would never be accepted in an AP environment when I couldn't do the most basic task of all!

My milk supply was very low. I had lc's, herbalists, a hospital grade pump, supplemental feeding systems, the works. My DD jaundiced and began to pass crystals in her diaper (sign of dehydration) so I began to formula feed without hesitation. Seeing those crystals scared the sh*t out of me and I didn't hesitate to get her food. I continued on a path of breastfeeding, giving a bottle, then pumping for every single feeding for six weeks (it was completely exhausting) and then I just had to give up. I never got more than 1/4 oz. during any pumping session despite pumping for 1/2 hour on each side. It was so heartbreaking for me as I myself was breastfed and grew up listening to my mother talk about how wonderful it was.

My DH never did understand why this was so hard for me and why I cared so much. It's not so much that I feel I didn't do the best for my baby, that's part of it. But I really wanted to have the experience of giving her nutrition from my body.

I hope I'm able to have another baby and I will try again. Thanks so much for starting this thread and good luck to all of you!

Eggie

09-30-2003, 11:44 AM

Laurel,
I didn't know about this thread and also wanted so much to share with other ff mothers. I was able to bf my daughter for only 1.5 months due to medical reasons and well, it's difficult to avoid sad feelings after all the benefits that we know bf gives to babies but we have to move on. About prejudices and else, I think the world would be much better if we turn our heads to our own family instead of doing it to other's.
I just know that my beloved dd is such a happy and adored baby:love

Have few questions for all the ff mommas:
1. Have you noticed that your baby is less "chubby" that bf ones or is that just my experience? My dd is growing very good but always seems lighter. She was born 7.1 lbs and 19" and now(5 months old) she's 14 lbs 26".
2. When did you started solids?
3. Any problems with formula brands? I had to change it to Carna**n Good Start because the other ones were so heavy for her stomach. Had bad constipation problems at 2 months old.
4. Have you tried the Dr Brown's bottles? seems to work very good against gas. Any other ones?
Well, hope to hear from all of you soon :D

bananasmom

09-30-2003, 12:00 PM

1. Have you noticed that your baby is less "chubby" that bf ones or is that just my experience? My dd is growing very good but always seems lighter. She was born 7.1 lbs and 19" and now(5 months old) she's 14 lbs 26".

Mine is less chubby as well (usually 25th - 50th %ile). It's probably just a body-type thing, but I often wonder if it's that I truly tried to read her cues, rather than just keep shoving a bottle in her mouth (I see that frequently, from my chose-to-ff friends... they seem to want them to sleep longer, and when the baby cries, they just feed feed feed)

2. When did you started solids?

About 5 or 5 1/2 months, although I though of waiting longer. To be honest, I sort of weighed the option of giving her more formula (she was still hungry) or giving her foods that I prepared myself. That is mostly why I started then, not later.

3. Any problems with formula brands? I had to change it to Carna**n Good Start because the other ones were so heavy for her stomach. Had bad constipation problems at 2 months old.

Not with brands, but we spent the better part of 15 months trying to figure out what made my dd so gassy and in so much pain most of the time. FINALLY, they did an allergy test, and she has a milk allergy. Wish I'd known that earlier! Now, it's soy-soy-soy in our house.

4. Have you tried the Dr Brown's bottles? seems to work very good against gas. Any other ones?
Well, hope to hear from all of you soon

We used them, yes. They did seem to help with gas, but we found a problem around 4 or 5 months, because we couldn't find a Dr. B nipple that moved fast enough for her. Unless, they've added nips to their line (which I don't think they have) I *think* they market more toward the newborn. After the Dr B's, we tried a bunch and settled on Gerber's with ortho nipple, like her paci. They seemed to make her the happiest.

HTH!

stafl

10-01-2003, 05:08 PM

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I wanted to let you all know there is a great support list at Yahoo Groups called MOBI - Mothers Overcoming Breastfeeding Issues.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mobi/
http://www.internetbabies.com/
Everyone is welcome, regardless of whether you are still trying to make breastfeeding work or not, regardless of what your problems were. It is a very wonderful, supportive group of women without whom I never would have managed to deal with the serious difficulties I faced with breastfeeding (my DD was tongue-tied and physically unable to nurse...long story, it's on my website if anyone is interested, just click on my name in my siggie).

MOBI is for women who are/were unable to breastfeed, feel unsuccessful in breastfeeding, are/were experiencing severe breastfeeding problems, or experienced untimely weaning.

Purpose

The purpose of MOBI (Mothers Overcoming Breastfeeding Issues) is to give women a place to discuss their emotions over not being able to breastfeed successfully. Many women are unable to breastfeed because of milk supply problems, long or short term separation after the birth of their child, previous breast surgery or lack of support and are overwhelmed with feelings of disappointment, anger, sadness, inadequacy and many others. Some women suffer depression because of these issues. This list is not to discuss the pros and cons of breast over bottle. There are many other resources for that information. We are here to provide a safe atmosphere to share feelings and to connect with other women going through the same process.

Eggie

10-02-2003, 12:28 AM

Thanks stafl, sounds very interesting, I will give it a try.

Laurel

12-30-2003, 01:03 PM

I am really needing some perspective and help from an AP point of view.

We have allowed ds (now 17 months) to use a binky since I wanted to make sure all his sucking needs were met while bottlefeeding. Now I have a child who is hopelessly addicted to his binky! He would have it in his mouth literally all day long if I let him. I am trying to figure out if I should just let it go and trust that he will leave it behind on his own accord when he's ready, or if I need to do some intervention. And if I do decide to gradually get rid of it, how would I do that in a gentle and appropriate way?

There are times when it's obvious to me that for whatever reason, he really does need his pacifier. He has been consistently having a cuddle time with me everymorning where he goes and asks for his bottle and binky and comes and sits on my lap for 15-20 minutes. I also still want to use it at nap and bed times. I want to be able to use it as a comfort object (in my arms). But there are other times when I feel it's simply a habit. He will be going along playing just fine and will happen to notice it in one of my several hiding places and if he sees it, that's it, he's got to have it. If I try to remove it (even at mealtimes sometimes) he protests loudly. I have had some success with having him say "bye-bye" to it and leave it under his pillow after naps, but even that has been limited. He will turn around later and go whine for it. Distraction has not been very effective--when he wants a binky, he wants a binky!

I was talking to my sil yesterday and she suggested that it's a control issue--she felt that if I just backed off and let him have it as much as he wants, he would use it less and less because he would feel more secure that it would be there when he needed it. That idea makes a lot of sense to me, and I am going to try that for a few weeks. But I would love to have other ideas too. I am also going to try holding him more often and making sure that he's getting enough comfort in other ways.

I really hate being the binky police, and it has become a source of frustration between ds and me. I really want to just do like I would if he were nursing and trust that he will give it up when ready. But I am having a hard time trusting whether or not that will really work. I think in a way this dilemma represents my learning to trust in attachment parenting--I love AP and believe it but still have inner "fights" sometimes where it's hard to leave behind all the prior teaching and assumptions about children, KWIM? Also, I know the binky is an emotional issue for me because every time I see it it reminds me that he isn't nursing and I wish he was. So I think I am maybe unfairly biased against the binky because of that--I really hate it and always have.

Anyway, I gotta go because my little boy needs some mama time, but I hope I covered everything that was on my mind!

Nemmer

12-30-2003, 07:23 PM

Our DS loves his binky too, Laurel. Ever since he was about 9-10 months, I've put the limit that it is only for "cuddling." I just noticed that we were giving it to him ALL the time, and knew that was not what I wanted for him. Like you, I wanted to make sure his sucking needs were met, so we allowed him to have it from the time he was very little. But when he was just holding it in his mouth while playing, I knew it was time to start setting limits.

Anyway, the first word he showed signs of comprehending was "binky" and the first word he tried to say was "binky." He really loves his binky! :LOL But he also knows that it is just for cuddling. He doesn't always like it, but it is a rule he understands very well. When he asks for it, which is usually by pointing to my pocket where I keep it (trying to keep it out of sight), I'll let him know that he can have it if he is ready to cuddle. Sometimes all he needs is a 2 minute snuggle, and then he decides he is bored, and he'll spit it out as he climbs off my lap. He does try to get away with climbing off my lap and keeping it now and then, but as long as I remind him it is just for cuddling, he is usually pretty good about spitting it out for me. If he doesn't want to, I remind him that he has the choice to cuddle with it. I usually just say "The binky is for cuddling. Do you want to cuddle mommy, or get down and play?"

Lately, I've started limiting it more to "sleepy times" and just trying to remind myself not to be so quick to offer it, even with cuddles. He has a hard time sometimes with that, but for the most part he seems to be doing really well with the very slight adjustment. I want to take things really slow with it, so he isn't traumatized. But (and maybe this isn't very AP) I really don't want him still using it when he's four. I know I've heard stories of kids that get to be about 3 or 4 and decide it is icky and throw it away. So, if you're comfortable with letting him wean himself, I'm sure it will happen, Laurel. But, if you want to gradually wean him from it, I'm sure you can do that in a very gentle way too. :)

Anyway, hope my little rambling offered something helpful. :D

Fleurette

12-30-2003, 08:10 PM

Thanks for starting this thread! I, too had difficulties with bf my dd. She was in the NICU for about 4 days when she was born and was given a bottle and I wasn't allowed to hold her for about 3 days. When we did try nursing, she just flat out refused to do it. It wasn't coming as quickly as she wanted it. Unfortunately, she wasn't a baby to show signs of hunger; she would just wake up and be hungry and want to eat NOW! She had little patience to figure out how to suckle and get the milk from mommy. I pumped exclusively for her until I went back to work and I have finally found peace with my decision to switch her to formula. It breaks my heart that we never had a nursing relationship, but it royally ticks me off when bf moms assume I don't care about my baby. The assumptions and the looks you get are horrible.

I'm desperately hoping that the nursing relationship I have with our twins (due in 8 days!!!) will be much better.

Laurel

12-30-2003, 10:45 PM

Nemmer, thanks. The scenario you described is exactly what I envision: binky used at sleep times and when comfort is needed in mama's arms. At this point, I know that enforcing a cuddle-only rule would involve a lot of angst. He has a total meltdown--either tantrum or sobbing--if I don't give it to him when he wants it.

One challenge to all this is that my dh doesn't care if ds uses a pacifier. This is one of a very few parenting things we've disagreed on. As far as dh is concerned, it's perfectly fine if he sucks on it all day long until he's 3 or 4. So I find it very hard to be consistent in my handling of it when dh won't do the same.

Nemmer

12-31-2003, 10:38 AM

Laurel, does he primarily want it when he sees it? Or is it something he'll ask for even without the visual reminder? If he only asks when he sees it, maybe you could start by making sure it is out of sight most of the time? I use my pocket as an out-of-sight hiding place. Although, by now, DS knows to ask for it by reaching for my pocket. For awhile, he was even taking my hand and guiding it to my pocket! :LOL :rolleyes: Anyway, good luck! I do feel your frustration, truly!

Nemmer

12-31-2003, 10:41 AM

Fleurette, welcome! We do know all about your frustrations, and hope you find some comfort knowing you aren't alone. I really hope you do have much better success with your twins! Congrats on their upcoming arrival! :D I too have hopes that next time around I'll have a longer breastfeeding relationship with my child. I think we all do. :hug Nice to meet you!

Laurel

12-31-2003, 02:22 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nemmer
[B]Laurel, does he primarily want it when he sees it? Or is it something he'll ask for even without the visual reminder? /QUOTE]

Both! If he sees it, he's guaranteed to want it. I do have several places I've tried to hide it, but he knows where all of those are and will go to that place and whine and point until I get it out. I like your idea of using your pocket--I may try that. I suspect he will still ask for it but at least he won't be able to see it in my pocket so maybe it will be more out of sight, out of mind.

Larklinnet

01-04-2004, 02:43 AM

Hi Lisa, it might help you to try to sort out exactly why you are so troubled with your ds still using a binky. You mention that it reminds you that you can't breastfeed him, but it sounds as if there might be other factors involved too. Do you have health or dental concerns? Without knowing more about your reasoning behind the timing needs, it's hard to figure out what might be helpful suggestions for you. If there is a health or developmental reason behind your attempting to get him to give up the binky, then taking gradual steps in this direction now seems wise. But I am not sure why it sometimes seeming to be more of a habit rather than a comfort object is worrying you - is it because you are afraid he won't want to give up the habit if it isn't challenged? I'm not saying "oh don't worry about it" but from my advanced perspective of having a 4 year old :D I've seen that time does bring an end to many things I thought would never change. Your s-i-l's advice seems valid and I'm glad you are going to try to see what happens for awhile.

My ds didn't much use a binky except for his early months (he wasn't that interested so we just stopped using it and he didn't seem to miss it) we had a terrible time getting him to give up his bottle. Though we ignored his ped's advice to wean him off of it at a year old since he just wasn't ready, the longer it went the more concerned we got about damage to his teeth. At around 21 months we finally gave him a choice of a sippy cup or using one of Avent's transitional nipples (he did get some transition time, we didn't cut out the bottle nipple completely at once). He hated the "green nipple" and after two days of protesting both choices, he accepted the sippy cup and never looked back. But I think if he had seemed extremely distraught about the change we would have stopped the process and tried again in a week or so.

Perhaps, like I find myself doing at times, you feel that because you adopted your son, it's of crucial importance that you not do anything that might disrupt his sense of security at all, for fear that this will cause him problems as he grows up. Even though I think we adoptive moms know in our bones that giving birth is not the only factor in having a securely attached child, it's sometimes hard to hold fast to that knowledge when issues like this one come up. I know I worry about inadvertently challenging my son's sense of comfort and attachment; usually when I find myself fretting about this I realize it's one of those "adoption issues" rearing its head, and have to reassure myself so I don't allow him to, say, have 10 candy bars before dinner just so I don't damage his psyche forever (just kidding, but you know what I mean!)

pilesoflaundry

01-06-2004, 09:54 AM

Thank you for starting this thread!! I hate even mentioning my kids were/are bottle fed because I don't feel like explainming why in every post but hate how some people react if you don't explain.Ugh, I don't get on someone's case for doing something differently from me, so why do they feel they can do it?

Long story short I had a very slow to come in and very small supply, didn't know about herbal remedies to help with that. Tried a few different pumps still got absolutly nothing. Ds wouldn't latch on,lc and a nurse told me my nipples might be too small for him to latch on to. He would scream his head off and arch away, he was starving and he just couldn't get it. Hospital said he had to have a bottle before being discharged since he had lost weight and didn't really feed from the breast. I kept trying after we got home but that bottle did us in I think. Not to mention I wouldn't have had enought for him anyway so I gave up. With the girls I again had little to nothing for supply, my nipples hadn't changed any so the latch issue was still there and I had zero support this time around, dh knew the hell I went through emotionally after not being able to nurse Alex and he said he didn't want to see me go through that again so he just didn't want to know about it, none of his family were breastfeeders so he doesn't understand. :( I basically was alone in this and my kids ended up bottle fed. I am okay with that decision, I tried my best, the important thing is that they eat kwim? My kids are healthy, happy and loved and that is all that matters to me. I always held them for bottle feedings , never propped their bottles or left them alone with one in bed or anything. I hold and cuddle them for their feedings.

Laurel

01-06-2004, 12:38 PM

Welcome, Jackie!

Originally posted by Larklinnet Do you have health or dental concerns?

Yes. I"m worried mostly about speech development, as I have a friend whose dd had a pacifier until age 3 or 4 and has speech problems that my friends feels are related to the binky. That's why I think that having it his mouth all day long would be a problem vs. only having it at certain times. The same goes for potential dental problems. It seems to me that it would be the amount of time it was in the mouth that would be the determining factor in speech/orthodontic problems.

It's interesting that the bottle was a worry for you because that hasn't been a big one for me at all. Ds still takes a bottle and I haven't been planning on doing anything with that until at least age two or older. For a long time he's only had two bottles a day (and we've fed on demand), but the last few weeks he's been wanting a bottle much more, so I have gotten a little bit nervous, but nothing like with the binky. Maybe because the bottle represents food while the binky represents comfort. I can accept that I can't provide his food, but it's harder to accept that I can't provide his comfort. (Through nursing--of course there is much, much comfort in other ways!)

You mentioned adoption and while I didn't really think of it before, it makes sense that there would be some insecurity deep within me that would add to this worry. But the more I think about it, I'm not sure it's adoption that's made me anxious about this as much as it's attachment parenting. AP is what make me worry about challenging ds's security and comfort. Adoption is what makes it so I can't meet all of those things in the "accepted" way (bf'ing), so I guess it would be a combination of adoption and attachment parenting.

Thanks for responding to my inner babbling! I worry about the strangest stuff sometimes!

pilesoflaundry

01-07-2004, 07:34 AM

I worry about the strangest stuff sometimes!

I think we all do Laurel! :LOL And thank you for the welcome.:D

corysmilk

01-07-2004, 05:33 PM

hi just thought i would say something . My oldest was a ff baby. I tried to bf him for 3 months, he would not latch. I had soo much milk. I pumped and put it in bottles. Then around 2 months my supply started to drop[no sucking] I started to give ff and then at 3 months all I could pump was really thin looking stuff that he would refuse to eat[weaning milk?] Anyway, allmost right away my son changed in to a different baby. He wasn't happy, he wouldn't sleep, he started to spit up after every feed. He was constipated... then he had the runs. It was horrable.
I was only 18 and to this day have never forgiven myself for not trying harder. My son was allergic to milk based formula so he was on soya. That stuff stinks!!!!!
He is 10 almost, and I still have a closer bond to my two bf children. I know that ff moms love their children. I love my son but, I didn't relize the bond could be closer.
I have looked at ff moms and i usally think 'what went wrong ' but i know 1st hand how hard it can be. I suffered many years of depresion cause he wouldn't bf. I wish I could let it go but, ff moms say" my baby is healthy", well my son was sick , sick . and I feel like I did that to him. He had exzema and skin rashes. It was awful.
any way

i am glad you can let it go

will i ever?:hammer :bawl

Laurel

01-07-2004, 06:16 PM

Corysmilk-

Welcome! My ds had problems (colic, etc) that I know were related to formula. I did feel bad, but it also helped me to realize that there was truly nothing I could do about it. In my situation with not having been pg, I could not change my body. I"m not sure what you could have done different. 3 months trying to get a baby to latch is a long time--that's hardly "not trying hard enough"--and then the pumping on top of that.

Have you tried writing out your feelings, writing out the entire nursing story in detail as much as you can remember? That really helped me a lot, especially with differentiating what I could have controlled and what I could not have controlled.

As far as the bonding, I have felt like we do enough AP stuff that there is very little difference, but of course I won't know for sure until I get to bf another child. I don't know if you knew about or practiced AP at that time.

To help myself cope, I've reminded myself that surely nature wouldn't doom a mother and child to a lesser relationship over this, and I did everything in my power to compensate. I hope this doesn't sound like I am underestimating the power and importance of bf'ing, because I am not. I am determined to bf the next one--it's one of my foremost goals! But I just cannot accept that there is only one really good bonding tool and if you don't use it, you're doomed.

Forgive me if I'm totally off-base here. I hope you find healing! I recommend the journaling highly!

Also, I'll bet that most of us here haven't truly let go. I've come to a point of acceptance and comfort, but it still causes me quite a bit of sadness at times.

corysmilk

01-20-2004, 02:23 AM

thank you for your kind words
I have been righting down some feelings in a journal and it has helped. i also want to bring it up with my therapist next time. I wonder if it wasn't the bfing at all that made me feel that way towards him. i was very young and i had bad ppd. i look back and relized. i did love him, sooo much he was my whole world i changed my life around for him. I did every thing to make sure he was heathy. i held him when he was up at night with ear infections i helped him learn to walk i watched him run off to play with his friends that first day of preschool. he truly is, my son!

i was young. i didn't know what i was doing. And I was learning,
learning to be a parent, now with #3 i am so much better, of course.
i tell ds #1 that he taught me how to be a mommy

he loves to hear it
any way thank you
this has been very good for me,
bfing....... ffing.... we all love our baby's

SpiralWoman

01-20-2004, 12:36 PM

hi all~
I am so sorry I haven't been able to read thru all the posts to get to know you better, & don't have time to post my own story either. I sure belong in this tribe tho!
I do want to ask a question about different kinds of formula & see if anyone can help me out:
Griffin is taking from 18-24oz formula per day & breast feeding often, incl all nite on demand. We have been giving Similac Advance since he was 1 mo old, but now I am thinking about switching to an organic formula. Since he has started solids I have been picky about Organics only, so started to worry more about the formula, what's in it, esp GMOs etc. For so long I have just put that out of my mind while struggling... etc.

DH is afraid it might make DS sick to switch formulas & he is doing fine with the similac, any insight? I have been getting wound up tight about it all again after feeling more at peace a month ago. Sigh.

thanks a million, Maria

Sleepymama

01-20-2004, 01:18 PM

I'm excited to see this thread too! I am still grieving not being able to exclusively breastfeed. My DS was born with a severe congenital heart defect and spent 3 weeks in NICU, 2 surgeries at 2 weeks and 3 months. I pumped my brains out, took all the herbs and domperidone, and never got more than about 12 ounces a day at my maximum. He did his part--finally learned to BF but always had to be supplemented with formula. Now at 13 months he gets maybe drops of bm a day, though he clings to my empty breasts like it's the end of the world. It makes me feel so awful that my body failed him. Every can of formula made me sick inside. I cried every time I pumped for months. I hate hate hate every bottle, washing them, traveling with all that crap. It just tears me up inside.

But I agree, there is noone to answer my questions about eating habits. No one continues to BF and supplement past a couple of months, they always go to FF only. He drinks bottles like a breastfed baby--a little at a time, not full 8oz bottles like most FFed babies. So it's impossible to find answers to my questions on mainstream boards, and on crunchy boards no one knows what I'm talking about.

But you know, I've never gotten negative comments. If I did, they would get an earful--walk in my shoes and then tell me what I did wrong. It makes me angry to think about it.

And we have also used donated milk--from someone I met on an internet board who lived nearby. The milk was free, and the mom had more than enough. This is a viable alternative to milk banks if you don't qualify, and many moms are dying to donate and can't because they take meds (like antidepressants which are totally safe but milk banks won't accept). BF support boards are great places to hook up to find donors.

Sleepymama

01-20-2004, 01:32 PM

Maria, to answer your question, I'd stay away from that DHA/ARA crap like the plague. It won't make him sick to switch if you do it slowly. Start mixing 1 part new to 3 parts similac, go a few days, increase to 1:1, then 3:1, then all new. The transition should take at least a week and watch for signs he isn't tolerating the new--runny smelly poop, rash, tummy upset. But if you're switching dairy to dairy it won't be a big deal. It's when you switch dairy to soy or vice versa that problems happen. (and stay away from soy--there are studies it's bad for their development because of the estrogens in it)\

HTH
Steph

Sleepymama

01-20-2004, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by PuppyFluffer
I have a question. Will a baby do any comfort nursing at the breast even if they don't get any milk or very little milk? For moms who have supply issues and have to supplement, do you still nurse for fixing booboos and such. I'm just wondering if the baby will even latch if they don't get much?

In our case, yes yes yes! I am the human pacifier. He latches still about 15x a day and still comfort nurses all night long. Sometimes that's the only way he'll take a bottle--latch on then I delatch him and stick the bottle in. He goes back and forth a lot.

In the beginning it was really frustrating though--we'd alternate bottle and breast feeding sessions because if he got the boob first he'd never take a bottle, and if bottle first then never latch on. So he ate about every hour. And I pumped. Geez, all I did was feed him!! He really LOVES to BF though. His eyes still roll back in his head when he latches on. I am grateful for that at least :)

On the solids question, I have a unique experience because DS has oral aversion due to surgeries. He didn't eat any pureed foods until 11 months and still eats practically nothing, although he is starting to taste some table foods now at 13 months. I often worry about vitamins and such but my ped assures me that the regular infant formula does have everything he needs. He just needs a LOT of it now. He drinks a small can every 2 days. But 6oz is the most he'll drink at a time, and it's usually more like 4oz. So he still gets about 7-8 bottles a day, plus one in the middle of the night. I don't have enough milk anymore to even quench his thirst at night. That is what really stinks! I hate going out to make a bottle in the night.

SpiralWoman

01-20-2004, 03:35 PM

thanks Steph,
why is this dha/ara crap? I thought it was good, like the essential fatty acids bm has? Is it the way it's made? The Baby's Only organic brand @ Organicbebe.com has it in also & they also have a supplement of it.
What kind of formula do you use?

corysmilk

01-20-2004, 03:45 PM

sleepymama
i just was on your web site. i am crying. what a beautiful story thank you for sharing! babe is a darling, what a little bundle,soooo cutie.

sorry I don't know what formula is good or better. I am bf'ing ds.
when i was ff'ing ds #1 he was on infalc, carnation, then some stuff that wouldn't mix together properly ( don't recall the name) then finally sma it was the only one that didn't cause him to have gas, runny or hard poos. any way at 6 months he had a servere reaction to the formula, he had the flu had elctrolye fluid for 24 hrs then back on his f . after six weeks........ yes 6 weeks of crohnic diarreha finally the dr said matbe he should be on soya.
he was sooo much better. i never thought to check the ff or anything i just thought if *they* sellit it must be good, for baby's RIGHT
i was pretty nieve back then:scratch

Laurel

01-20-2004, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Sleepymama
He drinks bottles like a breastfed baby--a little at a time, not full 8oz bottles like most FFed babies.

This is how my ds still is, and he's almost 18 months old. I can only think of 2-3 times in his entire life that he's downed an entire 8-oz bottle all at once. Even now it's often only 2-3 oz at a time, and it took him months to work up to that. We always fed on demand, even while bottlefeeding, and he was 4 1/2 months old before he was getting bottles full time. Before that he was nursing with a supplementer, so even though he was getting formula it was at the breast. I don't know if that's the reason or not. My ds also takes in the bottle nipple more like it were a breast. He doesn't get it quite as far back in his mouth as he did the breast, but he doesn't suck the end like most bottlefed babies either.

Sleepymama

01-20-2004, 07:03 PM

On the DHA/ARA, there are absolutely NO studies that show it does anything good, and several that show it makes lots of babies gassy/upset tummies. My DS had horrible gas and screamed on the enfamil lipil they gave him in the hospital. At home we switched to regular carnation good start--now they make it with the acids but they didn't then. The proteins seem to be more broken down in it and it's easier for him to digest (we also spent 4 months on alimentum b/c of dairy sensitivity but then switched back to good start at 9 months) You can still get good start "supreme" w/o the acids.

They must make that organic formula without the acids. If not, that sucks. Basically, formula companies are advertising the DHA/ARA as the be-all end-all alternative to breastmilk, and it just makes the formula more expensive. Just MHO of course. Here is some research on it though. http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/DHA-formula-comments.html

Thanks for looking at my site too :) I also have a breastfeeding story on BF.com if anyone wants to read it.
http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/pump_room.html

CaliMommie

02-11-2004, 11:58 AM

I just had to join you ladies! I can't tell you how good it feels to know I am not alone in this. I am unable to breastfeed my youngest son. Colby is almost 4-months-old. He bf exclusively for the first 2 months, and then had a sudden drop in weight. We went to our LC and it was deterined milk production wasn't an issue. After weeks of hospitalization we learned that he has sever exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. His body doesn't produce the enzymes necessary to digest fats. He is now on enzyme supplements & a specialized formula. I pumped for almost 6 weeks w/no bf while he was hospitalized & OP. I asked every day when he would be able to BF again & kept being told in a week or so. I am still suprised that Stanford wasn't more pro-breastfeeding!

Well, once home I finally rebelled & tried to bf (against the drs wishes; shame on me) but he will no longer take the breast. :( I am so disappointed. I bf my first until he weaned at 2 yrs, 8 mths, and had hoped to do childled weaning with Colby too. I cry all the time when I have to give him a bottle, and esp. when I see other mothers breastfeeding. I know I will adjust eventually (he has already started to ) and at leats he is finally gaining weight, but it's still very difficult.

If you made it all the way through this post, bless you!

AmiBeth

SpiralWoman

02-11-2004, 06:15 PM

I cry all the time when I have to give him a bottle, and esp. when I see other mothers breastfeeding. I know I will adjust eventually hi Amibeth, boy do I know how you feel! I just wanted to say hi & wish you well in your adjustment to this. Feelings of sadness for me come & go, but I know I am being the best mom I can be, & so are you! Glad your fella is gaining well now!
Take care, Maria

mymarliegirl

03-24-2004, 09:49 PM

oh wow, i feel like i've truly found my tribe. thank you. before i stumbled upon this thread i posted my (very) detailed story under the bf overcoming troubles heading. my dd is 6mos and it so breaks my heart that i don't bf. tried, tried, tried. i feel so close to her in every way, its hard to imagine being any tighter, but i'll never know that bond of bfing. i am slowly getting over it. after posting my story many kind-hearted moms replied and i began to feel better. i had been so scared to share my story on these boards, because nursing seemed to be the one common link for everyone. so glad to have found you guys!!! my heart is with you all.
i just wanted to put in my two cents about goats milk. i have a wonderful dr. who saw me in tears many times as i mixed up stinky soy formula, i had it branded in my brain that formula was evil. (dd allergic to cows milk form.) my doc. suggested goats milk. it is the closest thing there is to human milk (tho still no match!!!) apparently many women who do not/cannot nurse use goats milk in the first year of life. dd is doing great on it, it doesn't stink, it's thinner, it just seems better. i put one dose of infant liquid multi-vitamin in a bottle a day to cover iron needs. its working great for US. everyone needs to find what works best for them. i still hate having to bottle feed, but i do feel a little better about what i put in the bottle.
Thanks again for this thread........i feel like i'm home:)

mymarliegirl

03-24-2004, 10:02 PM

oh yeah, i forgot to say that for me i knew the goats milk worked well with dd's system when her poop became light colored and soft again, as it was with breastmilk for the first 6 weeks. (we're all moms here, i can write about poop, right?) when we had started formula her bms had turned dark, very stinky and rock hard and that always made me so sad. her insides (and out) seems much happier now. maybe its an option for a few of you.

Leatherette

03-31-2004, 12:58 AM

I BF'd my son until 14 months. I almost gave up many, many, times, because I had recurring mastitis that would not totally clear up, despite LC advice and docs and LLL on how to prevent them. I ran a low-grade fever for those 14 months, with 4-5 days every 6 weeks (or more) of a 104 degree fever. And diarrhea from having to take antibiotics all the freaking time.

My daughter was adopted, and I could not induce lactation. I did try (pumping and herbs for two months with zero results), but I can't help thinking I maybe would have tried harder if the experience with my son had not been so difficult. Part of me was so afraid of going through the mastitis again with only a tiny bit of milk being produced for my daughter, and dealing with the depression I had because I was so sick and couldn't enjoy my son's first year.

I think FF is a big pain in the ass (bottles, cleaning, night feeding). I hate feeding my daughter powder. It feels wierd every time I do it. But she is fed and fine, and everything else feels right. What can I say?

L.

karuna

04-01-2004, 11:40 AM

Mymarliegirl: Where do you find goat's milk? Do you have to boil it or anything, or do you just buy it pasteurized, or give it raw?

I have a chronic illness and cannot bf all night, so we supplement at night so dp can feed our 7m.o. babe. It's so refreshing to hear support for those of us for whom our bodies or babies are not able to cooperate with our desire to bf! I've posted for advice in the BFing forum as well, got some support but also some guilt and misunderstanding.

Anyway, I think my dd is not totally doing well with the 10-12 oz of Similac (with the RHA stuff) and I think we should find another option. I REALLY like the goat's milk idea, but money is a HUGE issue. Food stamps and WIC pays for all our food and formula needs. I know WIC wouldn't cover goat's milk instead of formula, but if it's available in regular supermarkets, then food stamps would cover it.

mymarliegirl

04-03-2004, 08:40 AM

Karuna,
The goats milk from the store comes pastuerized and ready to drink. Its sold in the milk section in quarts and 1/2 gallons, looks just like cows milk. Unfortunately it is expensive and around here we can only find it at co-ops and Whole Foods. I'm in the process of contacting a local farmer to see if we can buy direct from him (we're in Wisconsin after all!). Maybe the stores near you carry it--you could request it. Good luck!! It's really worked great for us:)

budgiemama

07-22-2004, 10:53 AM

It's been great to read through this thread - so tired of having to explain why my ds was not bf past 4mos (he is 2), and tired of feeling guilty & defensive about it. It's nice to know so many of us are in teh same boat, if for varying reasons; mine happens to be the critical need for medication that is not compatible with bf. i decided to take my chances on formula as obviously could not pump either, rather than run the risk of troubles down the line from exposing him to my medication. it still breaks my heart that i didn't nurse him to this day. otoh he is a sturdy, incredibly healthy, loving, cuddly boy so something must have gone right.

as for the dha/ara issue, i would agree that at the very least they increase cost out of proportion to any possible benefit, and that they are unproven as far as risks/benefits. re: goats milk as mymarliegirl wrote, should be supplemented with multivitamin containing iron, B12 and folic acid otherwise pretty significant risk of anemia.

thanks for being here.

elsjpo

07-22-2004, 03:06 PM

Hi.
My baby is 14mo old. Last May when I had her I tried desperately to bf. My midwife helped me, my sister (who was my doula) helped, the LC's in the hospital helped, I tried my Bradley teacher, and LLL finally a paid LC. All to no end!!!!! Apparenly I have none elastic/compressing tissue around my nipples so I may never be able to bf. sigh.. I tried diligently for 3 months... every 2 hours - we laid naked in bed all day... sigh... I was sad....
I pumped every 2 hours, 24hrs a day for exactly 6-months... I would have gone longer but I was exhausted, trying to work at home & my supply was dwindling.... I felt like such a bad mom when I stopped!!!!!
On the plus side, Cady was 5lb 9oz when born - at 6months she was 22lbs!!!! Now at 14months she's a happy healthy 31lb 33" kid!!! Never been sick (well, 2 colds but no biggie)!!!!

jeannette

myboyz

07-22-2004, 10:41 PM

I was just saying to a friend today that it is hard to find the right fit. I would say I do a lot of AP stuff so I like to chat with others but feel uncomfortable around the Bfing issue. It is like no one understands and I have to either hide something or really explain myself.

My first was Hospitalized at 4 days old for 5 days. They thought it was menigitis..but it was dehydration. I stuck with it for a long 2 weeks with no support and my dad in the hospital 2 times....Oh yeah I forgot where I was ...I do not have to explain!!!! I am sad I had stopped but at the time it was the best thing for me and that was the very day I started really becoming attached to my child!!! My DH was totally against me even thinking about it with #2 but I did. It was hard on all the family as we were really worried and we needed to be as #2 was soooo hungray all the time and colicky. I pushed and made it through many more rough spots. I started a "night time bottle" which really helped. The LLL said that would be the beginning of the end. WRONG! I thought I would have to pick one way or the other......I didn't. I was able to BF with just one bottle of Form. a day for 6 months. A lot better then nothing. I put my family through a lot to do this too. AND a lot better then the 1st Like gurumama said about educating from the first and learning for the second. Something like that. That is why I HATE the crap I get. I am learning and growing. I would think out all the people, Ap folks would care as we all hate explaining our ways and being judged. By some trashing us really turns us away when really we need support too and have a lot to offer them. How do they know they aren't turning away a person that could help them with other areas. Like Laurel say something about maybe we can give something they can not. I really believe you can not judge other unless you walk in their shoes! Still then if a person disagrees, then educate or support not slam or insult! My thinking is we all are practicing Ap to be loving people for one. How are they being loving and role modeling is the most important way! I am getting tried!!!

Can ya tell in my writing!!!

Anyhow...My ds is almost 10months and nursing just a little. For about 2 months he has been biting, pulling, arching his back and refussing. It is so sad to see. My dh says it is time to quit as it is stressful for everyone. I am mixed up at first many told me he was weaning but I feel I should feel so lucky I can do it a little and many ( just lately... almost too late) tell me he is not self weaning. My family says give it up and when I post they say stick it out. I know it is best nutritional but is it right to force him and also put off my other child as I have to go into another room (baby gets distracted and the other one gets upset seeing the baby cry. Any suggestions???

Thanks so much for this chance to Talk! I really helps to get it off my chest!

girlzmommy00

07-23-2004, 09:11 AM

On the solids question, I have a unique experience because DS has oral aversion due to surgeries. He didn't eat any pureed foods until 11 months and still eats practically nothing, although he is starting to taste some table foods now at 13 months. I often worry about vitamins and such but my ped assures me that the regular infant formula does have everything he needs. He just needs a LOT of it now.

My middle dd was on formula only (a prescription amino acid based brand) until she was 2 1/2. She had extreme digestive and allergy issues where she couldn't consume anything else. She will be 5 in 2 weeks. Her growth was never an issue but she is a picky eater now. I can't tell if it's just her nature or the late start of solids. But either way, she is very healthy and growing strong.

I have girls who had extreme digestive and allergy issues (still have a ton of allergy issues now). It is rare but babies can be allergic to breastmilk, as mine were. They ended up on Neocate (it's an amino acid based prescription formula at $45 a can) since they were also allergic to milk based, soy based and hypoallergenic formulas, among other things.

I have received nasty comments from people who saw my daughters drinking out of a bottle. I coldly informed them that they had medical problems and I was happy that they were able to consume anything at all. You never know why someone's baby is using a bottle or even what is in the bottle. I wish people would realize it's stupid to try to comment on things that they know nothing about.

ktmama

07-23-2004, 12:55 PM

Dear, dear mamas. Thank you all for your posts and your heart felt stories of struggles with nursing and decisions/choices/reluctance to ff. I, too, have been guilty of judging ff, a total projection of my own judgements on myself for almost going that route. Fortunately, my dd latched on at 6 months after using an artificial nipple (anyone seen these silicon sombraros?). I was just on the verge of giving up with sore, sore bleeding nipples, etc...

At the same time, I know that we live in a culture that ABSOLUTELY does not support bf and glorifies ff, so I strive to change that. Not here, of course :thumb .

I just want to encourage lactating moms out there to donate to your locale milk bank. I did when my dd was nursing and it's the best thing I've ever donated - far more valuable than money! You can see by reading these posts the impact it could have on a family!

KellyK

07-23-2004, 02:09 PM

:twothumbs :Bow I just wanted to tell you that I think you are all wonderful and brave mothers! Some of your stories are heartbreaking, but I am glad I read them. I am definitely going to donate if I can find anyone over here who needs it.

Stevie

07-23-2004, 09:42 PM

"If you used donated milk, how did it come about? If you didn't, why not?"

Just another thank you for starting this thread; I attempted adoptive bfing, but didn't last nearly as long as you did. Only 5 weeks.

As to the above ?: I am using donated milk, but I don't know how people get enough to feed a full supply. I mentioned it to a friend whose baby was born 9 weeks before my DD and she just told me that her milk would never be "right" for my DD as milk changes for the particular baby blahblahblah... I felt like saying "just tell me that you don't want to do it; I'm sure the cows aren't in the correct line with the moon either" but I didn't. This time around there was a neighbor who had her little boy 4 months after my DS was born and she found herself with a regular extra 4-8 oz. a day from pumping at work. She drops off this extra 5 days a week, so DS does get some immunities from her donation. And he loves his donated milk! His eyes just shine when he's got THAT bottle :love I think there was one time when she must have eaten something that didn't agree with him. He kept pushing the bottle away; I just mixed it with formula and he ate it fine :thumb I'll tell you one thing; I never waste a drop of that liquid gold... what a great mommy my friend is :love

BTW, DD was exclusively ff, but has been drinking goat's milk since weaning from the bottle at 13 months.

Stevie

07-23-2004, 09:53 PM

"I'm in the process of contacting a local farmer to see if we can buy direct from him (we're in Wisconsin after all!"

Hi; just wanted to let you know that I am in S. WI as well; Janesville. It's nice to see another local girl here :D I hadn't thought about goat's milk for the baby; DD has been drinking it since she weaned from the bottle at 13 months. I have an excellent children's vitamin and he eats organic brown rice cereal; I'm wondering if I could switch him to goat's milk as well? He's eating baby's only organic formula now... what do you think?

MA mommy

07-29-2004, 02:40 AM

(((hugs))) I have an AP friend that was not able to breastfeed as long as she wanted to. I think this tribe will be a wonderful source of support for her.

littleaugustbaby

07-29-2004, 03:54 PM

:hug

I'm so glad to have found all of you ladies. I haven't had a chance to read all of your stories yet, but I'm getting there. It's so important to be able to get your story out and feel heard and respected.

I'll share my story later when I have more time, but for right now I just wanted to say hello and offer some :love and a :hug for all of you.

tammylc

07-31-2004, 08:51 AM

Fortunately, after a bit of a rocky start, I've been able to BF DS. However, I have a bunch of formula samples that the hospital sent me home with. I'd like to clean out that closet, and would really love to pass my formula onto a mom who is unable to BF or needs to supplement. Hope it's okay to post this to this thread!

Please PM me if you're interested in any of the following:

Similac Advance Infant Formula with Iron, ready to eat liquid formula (5 2 oz bottles)
Similac Advance Infant Formula with Iron, singles powder packets (1 box containing 6 packets)
Enfamil Lipil with Iron (3.6 oz can)

wildthing

08-03-2004, 09:23 PM

I did not breastfeed my oldest dd. I regretted it very early on, but had never heard of relactating. Interestingly, even at only 18 years old, I still did many AP things, and never knew there was a name for it. That dd is now about to turn 19yo in October. I have nursed my next 7 babies, fortunately with very few problems.

11 years ago, I donated milk to a good friend of mine. Her baby was born a month after my ds, and had many issues at birth. My friend tried hard to get her baby to the breast, but her baby had some injury to her neck muscles, as well as spending tim ein the NICU and all that goes along with that. I would pump 8-12oz each morning while I nursed my ds, then we would drop it off at her house, or she would come by and pick it up. I was so happy to be able to share it with her.
I have another friend whose sister had breast reduction surgery, and has to supplement her son. She uses formula most of the time, but now that my baby is here, and my surgery over, I will be pumping for her.
I am also planning on pumping for another woman I know who is expecting to adopt her third baby this fall.

If I were ever not able to breastfed (and this was a very real concern of mine just last month, with a threat of cancer), I would hope and pray that some of what I have given would come back and there would be mothers out there who would be willing to donate their milk for me. But if not, I would be very grateful for the support that I have seen given here. :)

pugmommy7

08-07-2004, 12:29 PM

i am a bfar mom.
that is, i am currently breastfeeding after reduction.(strike 1)
i bottle fed my 1st daughter pumped bm and formula combined.
the monkeywrench in that situation was that she was born 6 1/2 weeks early b/c i suffered severe pre-eclampsia.(strike2,she was not strong enough nor able to be held let alone to be fed at breast.)

i wanted desperately to bf, but i just didn't happen.
we struggled for 10 weeks until my pediatrician finally gave me permission to bag it.-believe me i appreciated it!
i pumped until i dried up.
i felt fine at the time, but regretted it later.(you know how it is to feel that you can't do it vs. choosing not to)

well, then came babygirl #2. i was treated as a high risk preg., and things went much better w/ her l&d.
i was able to nurse her immediately.
i use an at breast supplimenter w. formula and pumped milk.
i use herbal galactogogues for supply.

bottom line....i feel no more closely bonded to this baby who is fed at the breast, than to my wonderful dd#1.
we bonded beautifully with bottle and dh was able to connect with her as well.(which was really really important to us b/c of her prematurity.)

no one should ever make a judgement of any kind about the way anyone feeds thier baby.

i have been on both sides and i often shock people who know i bf and yet i come to the defense of bottlefeeders like a lioness!
(like: how do you know what thier situation is???)

i've got you back mamas!
love,Jennifer

Stevie

08-08-2004, 07:48 PM

:lurk:

pugmommy7

08-08-2004, 10:53 PM

donna,
you rock!
what a wonderful gift you are sharing!
talk about the milk of human kindness.
wow! 8-12 ounces extra at one feeding! :bigeyes
That is what I could pump in a day :innocent .
(if i were pumping exclusively!)
There are just no words to decsribe the sheer generousity of what you are doing. :Bow

>LOVE<, :love
Jennifer
bfar-ing-at-keyboard:)

Attached2Elijah

08-09-2004, 11:30 AM

Oh wow, I didn't even know there was finally a thread for this. Here's my story:

For as long as I can remember I wanted to BF my children. I was breastfed, my siblings were breastfed and it was just assumed that I would be able to as well. When I was 16, I got in a horrible car accident where a large peice of glass slammed through my chest, right through my left breast, leaving almost all of my milk ducts severed. I didn't think much of it until I got pregnant 6 years later and was checked out to see if they had healed. They seemed to be showing improvement but no one could tell me if I would be able to BF on that side or not.

When I was 19, I got my nipples pierced and on the second one (the right one) I jerked back and the piercer ripped my nipple.

So, when my son was born by C-section I was very surprised to see that milk did come in both breasts just fine. However, nursing was very painful on my left breast because of the ripped nipple, which has never completely healed. I was determined to make it work, nonetheless. But it was not to be... the supply on my left side kept getting lower and lower. I pumped in between feedings for every 2 hours and he was eating about every 3-4 hours.... and still, my supply on the one side dwindled to no more then a couple drops. I tried to keep pumping on the right side but it wasn't enough to satisfy my little porker (who had went from 8lbs 9 oz to 12 lbs by one month old on my milk) and there came a point where I was getting more blood then milk because of the rip on my nipple. It was essentially raw meat and was so painful that I had to give up. The blood in the milk was making him very ill and I couldn't keep giving it to him. It was the hardest thing I ever did in my life. It still hurts that I couldn't give him more then 6 weeks of BM.

However, there is a light at the end of my tunnel. My Dr has said that probably because of the pumping and such that it made my milk ducts on the other side start to heal faster and just last month she told me that they almost completely "recanalized" and that I most likely will be able to BF my next child. I will still have problems with the right nipple since it's still not healing but with more milk from my other breast, maybe just maybe, I can BF the next one. We're also currently TTC as well and my sister is 14 weeks pregnant and I will be her full time baby sitter so we're hoping that I can get pregnant soon and be able to cross breastfeed with her so that her baby will never have to get a bottle. This decision has helped me to heal a little and hopefully will happen.

edited to add that we looked into getting donated BM but there is not a single breast milk bank in Columbus (there's one opening now at Grant though) so that was not an option for us.

pugmommy7

08-09-2004, 12:38 PM

WOW A2E!
That is so great that the ducts have recanalized.
I can testify to the miracle that is.
Mine keeps getting better all the time w/ pumping and nursing.
The human body is amazing.

I don't know if you experienced crazy engorgement at the beginning- but i did b/c of disconnected plumbing and the ducts that had no where to drain.

This go-round h/e things were much better.
Plus all that extra stimulation from your neice will do nothing but help your supply.

as far as milk donation, maybe your sis will have a copious supply.
if you really want to keep baby at the breast exclusively but have to use a suppliment- you may want to consider an at breast supplimenter. It has changed my life!I use it w/ my pumped milk and formula.
luckily my baby will take a bottle too- so my dh gets to feed her too- he really enjoys it.

unfortunately i had to ask the lc about sns :irked: -I think they need a major education in bfar-ing.not just for bfar-moms, but for mamas in a similar sitch, like yourself.
and some sensitivity to those who can't or choose not to bf.

JaneS

08-09-2004, 01:32 PM

Hi all :)

I was wondering if anyone is following Dr. Mercola's infant formula fat fortification protocol?

http://www.mercola.com/2000/oct/22/infant_formula.htm

Or had any other suggests for getting cholesterol and good fats into their under 1 y.o. diet?

Using omega 3 fortified egg yolks:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/6/1084

I'm asking for a FF mama friend who has a 6 month old. She has MS and I'm very concerned about her babe getting cholesterol for proper myelin sheath development in the brain. (The myelin sheath is what wears away and causes the nerve damage/paralysis in MS).

From www.askdrsears.com
Cholesterol. Another fat needed for optimal brain development. Breastmilk contains a lot of cholesterol, while infant formulas currently contain none. "Low in cholesterol" may be good news for adult diets, but not for babies--cholesterol provides basic components for manufacturing nerve tissue in the growing brain.

DHA, cholesterol, and other breastmilk fats provide the right substances for manufacturing myelin, the fatty sheath that surrounds nerve fibers. Myelin acts as insulation, making it possible for nerves to carry information from one part of the brain or body to another.

She is using regular Enfamil milk based with iron, the Lipid version makes her little guy very gassy.

Thank you!! :love

Oh and if you think this belongs elsewhere, let me know and I will move pronto!!

Satori

08-09-2004, 10:07 PM

I posted this question over on TAO and they suggested I ask on this thread.

About how much formula does a 7-8 mo old baby that eats 2 stage 1 jars of baby food a day need? Yes I know you should feed on demand but that is not the case in this situation and I would like to know how much the baby should have been fed vs what it was actually fed.

budgiemama

08-10-2004, 05:55 AM

probably around 24-35oz/d depending on how big the baby is. still getting almost all nutrition from formula/bm. hope all is ok...you sound worried...

bananasmom

08-10-2004, 01:01 PM

I make 6 8-ounce bottles for my 8.5 month old... but she doesn't drink all of that. I think she eats a little over 32 ounces/day, maybe even 36. Most days, she gets some Toasted Oats (like Cheerios) snacks while I'm busy with my toddler's meal, and 1 solid meal (either cereal or my purees), which she doesn't eat much of.

This will depend on weight, too. The rule of thumb is 2-2.5 oz/pound/day, but I think that is applied most often in the months before solids.

boingo82

09-15-2004, 02:10 PM

Hi ladies,
I hope it's OK for me to post this here. :)
I wonder if any of you would be able to use some formula checks I've been sent.

I have $2 off Good Start DHA&ARA
$1 off Any Good Start Supreme
$5 off any enfamil
$3 off any enfamiil
and another $3 off any enfamil

They are all good into November. I do not need them, and I hate to see them go to waste, so I'd be happy to send them (no charge of course) to anybody who'd make use. Please email me or PM me and tell me which you'd like and I will send them out. :)

CindyC

09-15-2004, 04:36 PM

Very enlightening thread! I didn't worry so much about finding my own tribe, but I have to say MDC is very refreshing. I'm old and bold, so I've said up front that we ff. Not ashamed about it cuz I did try to bf, but our AP choice was to go to the bottle. I did pump for a month and DD drank whatever I gave her. I didn't know some kids might prefer mm over formula.

Rainbowbird

09-26-2004, 01:00 PM

Thank you, thank you, for starting this thread. It is so validating to read everyone's stories. To hear the judgement that others have encountered. To hear about how you were flamed, or "educated" oh so judgementally. To hear about how hard it is to explain, over and over, and still feel like you're not understood.

I am still reading the posts and I hope to PM some of you. My hearts go out to all of you! I will post my story another time when I have a chance. In the meantime, I thank Laurel again for starting this and everyone else for sharing their stories. My best to you and your babies.

DaryLLL

09-28-2004, 01:37 PM

bump

ILuvMyBaby

09-29-2004, 09:34 AM

kaydee

09-29-2004, 12:29 PM

Thank you...thank you...thank you :) I formula feed and struggle on and off with it. I wish I stuck it out longer, but the depression set in way to fast and I just did not know any better. I really want to breastfeed by second, but kind of feel like I cheated out my first.

anyone else feel this way?

Absolutely. I so wish my circumstances had been different--both my son and I lost out. But I did the best I could, as I am sure you did, as well. We will not be having any more children, but I wish you great success in breastfeeding your next. :hug

sandy from Toronto

09-29-2004, 03:11 PM

Hi,
I echo the thanks to all the mamas that are posting their and their children's stories here. I am still very much affected by my failure to breastfeed. I still feel like I let my little one down and that I am an inadequate mother in this way. I won't share the long story re: my breastfeeding failure at this point - just how it is impacting me.

I just hope he is healthy and that he won't suffer too much from not being breastfeed. I hope our attachment is not ruined or diminshed in anyway. I try to make light of it and announce that my son is being raised on the "corporate boob" and that we will compensate for this by attending anti-globalization rallies when he is older - which we most likely will. But the truth is that I crinch inside when I am out and see other women breastfeeding. I feel sad - like I was robbed of a type of relationship and symbiotic intimacy that I believed I would have with my son. We have lost something that I assumed would be naturally ours and despite my best efforts, I could not make it happen. There is fear that this is foreshadowing for my impotence as a mother in the future and I am doing my best to move beyond my grief and celebrate my sons being in the world and the ways that I can nuture him.
Sandy

Rainbowbird

09-30-2004, 03:35 PM

I knew better, but quit anyway b/c I was so stressed by how badly the BF was going and lack of sleep from pumping round the clock. But you know, when have PPD you do what you can to survive. It's a horrible thing. I feel I sacrificed the BF for my own mental health and my bond with my son. He failed to latch and we immeditately began to bond more and have a peaceful relationship once I began the bottle. I hope I am successful next time around as I am due in May with #2.

Try not to beat yourself up. No one who has been thru PPD would blame you. (I was admonished on the BF Support and Advocacy Board not to use PPD as an "excuse" not to BF.) It can be an excuse, for some people. You do what you can. Your son will thrive as mine did (he is a big, strapping, happy toddler now who actually gets sick LESS than some of his exclusively BF friends). This is not to say that he might be even healthier on mm, but I am confident that he is doing great and everyone comments on how smart, outgoing, and even advanced he is. (Two pediatricians have told me that he is ahead of his age group in terms of fine motor skills and visual skills). So try not to worry about that.

Next time around, you will be armed with more knowledge and past experience. I'm trying to think positive about it and I hope you can, too. If you weren't a good mom, you wouldn't be feeling bad about the first time...but there is a good chance you will succeed next time around. Good luck.

Thank you...thank you...thank you :) I formula feed and struggle on and off with it. I wish I stuck it out longer, but the depression set in way to fast and I just did not know any better. I really want to breastfeed by second, but kind of feel like I cheated out my first.

anyone else feel this way?

Rainbowbird

09-30-2004, 03:40 PM

I've had friends who bf some children and bottle fed others tell me there was no difference, the bond was the same. I have the same regrets about missing that relationship, but the essence of being a mom is loving your child and nurturing him the best way you can. You can love and cuddle and have skin to skin contact with bottle feeding. I desperately want to BF next time but I really feel that I compensated by offering my son lots of loving and cuddles. We are totally bonded and he is a very confident and happy child. Don't let your fears become a self-fulfilling prophecy, kwim? Love him as much as humanly possible and he will be fine.

I just hope he is healthy and that he won't suffer too much from not being breastfeed. I hope our attachment is not ruined or diminshed in anyway. [/QUOTE]

FancyD

04-22-2005, 10:28 AM

Hello, I'm new here, though I've lurked for months. Even before my son was born, I liked checking the site out but didn't think I was AP enough...
My story is very similar-birth trauma, NICU, bottle-feedings. I don't like to talk about it very much, but I'm happy this thread is here. We also struggled w/ bfing and I'm happy that he takes my breast at all, even though my ds supplements the majority of his feedings. After he was born I still lurked here, but didn't want to hear how I didn't try hard enough, or "how convenient for you"... how NOT convenient! Watching my son be intabated(sp?) and drugged was the furthest thing from what we had planned for our family.
I would just like to thank you all for sharing your stories, I don't feel so alone now.

USAmma

04-23-2005, 05:47 PM

Hi! My story is long but I didn't bf either baby. Not for lack of trying.

Dd1 was born healthy but I have flat/inverted nipples, oversupply syndrome (severe), many mastitis infections (ugh!), a baby with vomiting reflux, and well it just didn't work. She preferred bottles. It was easier than trying to suck out a flat nipple while being sprayed and choked. I hired LC's and they gave up on us. I pumped for 5 mos and then quit.

Dd2 was bottlefed from the start b/c I was traumatized by the first experience. I have abuse issues and it was just too much. I pumped for 7 weeks through 3 double mastitis infections and thrush. Ugh! I did try to nurse her a few times. She latched on but didn't stay on. She has severe reflux and has always had feeding problems, was dx with FTT. At 3 mos. old she got a feeding tube in her nose. At 7 mos she got one in her stomach and still eats that way except for a few bites of cracker here and there. At 7.5 mos she stopped taking anything by mouth at all. So it would not have mattered if I'd breastfed her from the start or not.

You can read her full story here (http://members.cox.net/sukumaran/NaturalParenting/reflux.html) but it's very long (and photos too)

I mourned the loss of bfing with Abi. It was very important for me to bfing her for the bonding. The good thing that came out of it was AP. In my effort to make up the bonding, I started to do AP things such as cosleeping and babywearing. It has changed my life and the kind of parent I would have been otherwise! With Abi I learned to find that silver lining in the cloud.

With Nitara I mourn even the pleasure of holding a baby in my arms and feeding her, because with her it was awful. She cried and fought and arched her back for every feeding. Even rejected my arms for awhile because of the association with bottles. The g-tube was the best thing that happened to her. She has grown so well since having it, is happy and healthy and bright. With Nitara I learned to let go of my parenting "rules." She's my crib baby (had to sleep elevated), the baby who hated slings for a long time b/c the cradle hold caused her to reflux. She had pacies to help strengthen her suck muscles and to help keep the reflux down better.

Nitara made me let go of everything and start all over again. I am much more confident in my parenting and myself in general because of Nitara.

Darshani

Talking about formula costs! Ugh! She did poorly on breastmilk, better on Alimentum. She could only take Ready to Feed Alimentum for awhile at $53/case (6 day supply). Now she's on Pediasure at $4.50/day. I do give her babyfood and cereals and avacado down the tube but the majority of her food is Pediasure, and will be until she's 3-5 years old and outgrows the reflux and starts eating better. She may require at least supplemental feedings by tube for an even longer time.

FancyD

04-24-2005, 09:05 AM

Hello, just a quick q... does anyone know of a formula that tastes more like breast milk? Until recently, my son would only nurse when he was tired or asleep but now he refuses his bottles and I don't have enough milk. Any advice would be appreciated!

Satori

04-24-2005, 11:16 AM

Are you open to accepting donated milk from other moms? I've also heard of moms who have added 1 tsp of sugar to an 8oz bottle to sweeten it and slowly wean the baby off the sugar a week or 2 later.

Jyotsna

04-24-2005, 04:21 PM

Hi everyone,

I came to support you. While have managed to breastfeed all three of my children who were adopted, I know the pain and struggle that goes into trying to provide enough for my kids.

I used formula for all three since I used a Lact Aid to suppliment. I was lucky to get some donated milk for a while, but that ran out eventually. Even then I still had to feed formula. I had a tiny milk supply, and it was disheartening to not have more.

I just wanted to say that I know how hard you all have tried. When my dd and I got thrush (me in the ducts) I wanted to give breastfeeding up. It was only because my daughter would nurse, that I didn't. If she was not wanting to nurse, and arched away from me all the time, I would have been devistated and stopped.

I think at some point, you just have to draw a line in the sand. Is if affecting your mental health and the physical health of the child, then it is time to accept that formula is a viable way to feed a child.

My mother formula fed me, and I was okay. I look at it that way. Politically I believe that the formula companies are essentially evil as they promote formula in the hospital and dr offices. Formula should be something that is available by prescription only. Some people just use it because they don't know any better. That is sad.

I just wanted to give a big H U G to you mamas!
Supporting you mamas because I know how hard it is!

FancyD

04-24-2005, 05:25 PM

Thanks, Satori... I grrr added sugar to his formula and he ate happily. Seems I just keep trading one worry for another.

USAmma

04-24-2005, 07:39 PM

meowee

04-24-2005, 07:58 PM

wow! thanks for starting this thread. I know there are members here who have trouble believing any woman can't breastfeed, and, sadly, there are some who think that a woman should not have children unless she breastfeeds.

I don't know yet if I'm going to be able to breastfeed if I have another child. I nursed two children no problem, a third with low supply, and then a fourth-- I was hit with recurrent mastitis. The infection was in my lymph nodes and I was basically bed ridden for a year. The pain I endured was unbelievable and I have lost partial feeling in my right arm and have almost no strength in it.

Most people don't understand how grave and agonizing my situation was. So anyway, if I ever have another child, I may be one of those who "can't." And yes, I tried every natural and mainstream treatment in the book. If I get mastitis three or more times next time around, if there is a next time, I will stop breastfeeding. My children basically lived without a mother for a year-- I basically was just a bedridden lactating "thing--" and I can't take that risk again. It would have been much better for me to have bottlefed than to have endured what I did.

FancyD

04-25-2005, 09:29 PM

Also a good idea, breastmilk kinda tastes like my dp's rice dream. I'll try it out, as I don't really want to give ds any more sugar than I have to.

sweetpeasmom

04-27-2005, 07:33 AM

Hello mamas.

I think this is just the sort of support I need here. I had bf my first and started pumping when I went back to work, then my supply dropped so I went to formula at 5 mths. I am a SAHM now and I was determined with my next baby that we would bf until she was ready to wean herself. Well my 2nd baby ended up coming early at 25 wks, so bf would obviously have to wait. I was determined to make it work no matter what. When she finally was at the stage to start, she did ok, her latch was fine but she got frustrated because she was used to the bottle. I know I could of denied the use of bottles and just stuck with the tubes but I felt so heart broken to see those tubes in her for so long and just once I wanted to see nothing going in her so we tried the bottles. Well I kept trying to bf, used a sns, tried all sorts of things but she just doesn't want to. It broke my heart, I felt so bad that she just didn't want to and preferred the bottle. I am pumping so at least I know she's getting bm but I do have to supplement with formula because I just can't pump enough to meet her needs. I've recently made the decision to stop trying to bf her because it was too emotional draining for me and I needed to move on.

USAmma

04-27-2005, 08:27 PM

sweetpeasmom, I can understand your wanting to get the tubes out of her. That must have been so tough. My youngest baby had an NG tube for 4 mos. and it was very hard to live with.

When Nitara (my second) was born I didn't want to bf her after what I went through trying to nurse Abi. Although Nitara ended up with a g-tube, she did latch on and nurse a few times. I can now saw that I know what it feels like to nurse a baby. It was just a few times but it was very special to me all the same.

UmmBnB

04-28-2005, 11:10 AM

Throwing my support your way moms!!

I was able to pump for a friends baby - what a great experience. I didn't *get it* until I met her and saw the struggles she went through.

Mothering is has many aspects. I believe the most important one is doing your best to be the best mom for your child. There is no list of must-dos that creates a good mama.

Reina

04-30-2005, 12:11 AM

Hi ladies, just wanted to offer my support! I had flat and inverted nipples and gave birth to a very high needs baby. After some incompetent nurses at the hospital, who tried to force my dd to me, I couldn't even hold her in the cradle position without her screaming. We tried everything, and then resorted to pumping exclusively. I did that for 5 months....long months. :D

With the use of a nipple shield (I love that thing!) I was able to get her to bf when she was 5 months old. I weaned her off the shield after about a month and went on to bf her until she was 21 months old and my milk dried up from being 7 months pg.

But those 5 months were hard, it was awful getting that rejection from my baby. I don't think that I'll ever fully forget how devastated I felt. My heart goes out to all moms that truly wanted to bf, but for some reason or other, it didn't work out.

Luckily, my 2nd baby latched on perfectly right away, and except for the usual pain of the first few weeks, we had a perfect time of it from the start. I just weaned him about 2 months ago after my milk dried up, as I am again pg. :) So for those of you where it didn't work out the first time, it CAN work out with future babies. And even if not, you are all great mommies, doing the best you can for your children.

Reina - mommy to:

dd - 4/1/01
ds - 3/19/03
ds - edd 8/8/05

USAmma

05-01-2005, 12:45 AM

momof2tadpoles0104

05-15-2005, 12:55 AM

just adding my support to
my oldest i bf for 6 months with almost no supply and having to use a sheild. didnt have much help either as i was/still am the 1st to have bf my kids sinse before my grandmothers!!
anyhoo the 2nd i bf for 14 months with the same above problmes thank got for dom. lol and he has now self weaned.
hugs to you all though it can be soo tough and heartbreaking!

bartleby

05-20-2005, 06:43 PM

How is it that I just noticed this thread?

I am the adoptive mother of a six-month-old daughter. I did not induce lactation, though just recently I am feeling a pull toward trying comfort nursing at the very least. I don't feel particularly guilty about feeding my child formula, though of course I am under no illusion that it is equal to breastmilk, nutritionally speaking. My lack of guilt aside, I do sometimes feel embarrassed to bottle-feed in public. No one has ever openly judged me, but it feels weird, in my all-breastfeeding mothers group for instance, to be the only one shakin' up a bottle of powder. Frankly, I am jealous of women who are easily able to breastfeed. It just seems so much more convenient than having to tote bottles and purified water everywhere. I will not be sorry when I don't have to wash bottles and buy formula anymore. It's quite the pain.

We use the Horizon Organic kind, which works well for us. My husband, who was raised on a farm, says it tastes "alfalfa-y." Huh.

Anyway, I wanted to ask if any of you have changed nipples over time--from one kind of flow to another. I think I read somewhere that you should, and my husband seems to think that because our daughter has become so squirmy during feedings, that maybe she needs a faster-flowing nipple. I tend to disagree with him, but maybe I'm wrong. We've always used the slow-flow. Thoughts?

mandalamama

05-25-2005, 01:33 AM

Anyway, I wanted to ask if any of you have changed nipples over time--from one kind of flow to another. I think I read somewhere that you should, and my husband seems to think that because our daughter has become so squirmy during feedings, that maybe she needs a faster-flowing nipple. I tend to disagree with him, but maybe I'm wrong. We've always used the slow-flow. Thoughts?

re: nipple flow ... sometimes i have to change nipples throughout the day, like if i notice Willow wants to suck harder in the morning, but has no patience for a long feeding in the afternoon and evening: i go with Level 1 in the morning, and Level 2 the rest of the day. and there have been more than a few times she'll be hungry but refusing a certain flow and i'm yelling to my husband "hurry, bring me a Level 1!!" through the house :LOL

i've got a squirmer, she's 7 months old, i've posted asking BFing mamas advice on how they handle it. they mentioned feeding in "stops and starts" for a few minutes, it's a hassle to make a new bottle when it "expires" but worth it because it works for her. i also made a nursing necklace for her to fiddle with, she loves it.

i'm a "bottle nurser" (http://www.artwithaheart.com/willow/bottlenursing.html). i avidly read every breastfeeding resource i come across, especially http://www.kellymom.com. because i know it's not just the breastmilk that the baby benefits from, there are SO many other benefits, for mama also! i believe it's my job to give my daughter as many of those benefits as i can. just like when a preemie is born, a mama can do "kangaroo care" to simulate the baby being back in the womb, i think we bottle feeders can "nurse" our babes and give them at least some of that gift. i had the advantage of a month of nursing, and 3 tries at relactation, and periods of comfort nursing on and off until 5 months, when Willow finally rejected the breast (i still continue to offer, though, when she's distressed). but i still consult with nursing mamas all the time.

if my server's FTP was working, i'd upload a pic of Willow bottle-nursing. the bottle lies right along my breast, and she even pats my boobs while eating. like if i get distracted and tilt the bottle wrong and the flow slows, she'll poke my boob hard as if to say "hey! i need some let-down here!" :LOL i'm so happy that she thinks mama = milk! :love

mandalamama

05-25-2005, 05:01 AM

i thought i'd posted my story here months ago, but i guess i didn't! i had a c-birth but my doula latched Willow on for me a few minutes after they brought me back to my room, and we did really well. my milk came in before i even left the hospital. the whole time i nursed, my supply only ran low for 2 days, due to stress and no sleep. the insomnia was the issue, that's why i couldn't continue breastfeeding. for 5 months, i had only slept 3-4 hours per night during the pregnancy since weaning off klonopin in the 5th month ... i'd been on klonopin for 11 years at that point, i have CFIDS and fibromyalgia and it helps tremendously with restful sleep, more energy during the day, and much less pain. for some reason, after birth, i DID NOT sleep - for *3 weeks!* as in: 1 hour sleep or less per day. and that sleep was pretty much just me passing out, not even restful. we went through some mild thrush, some latching issues, i had nipple pain ... basically typical problems. but nothing i would have given up BFing for! i was on here a LOT, asking questions, many mamas helped me tremendously, they also looked up info for me and my drs. i had an LCs help as well as Willow's ped who was a former LC.

klonopin is safe by Dr. Hale's book, but he states only if it doesn't adversely affect the baby. when Willow was 3 weeks old, i took 1mg of klonopin and slept for 3 whole blessed hours!! but she showed signs of sedation. 3 days later, she was also showing signs of agitation after the sedation, and wouldn't eat during either of those periods :( she had GERD, and not eating was making the reflux pain worse for her. so we'd go through 7 hours of: not being able to wake her up for 3 hours, her waking up screaming and shaking with hand tremors and looking side to side wildly for 3 hours, then crying from reflux pain for about an hour :( i went down to .5mg klonopin. i didn't sleep. at 3.5 weeks with only those 3 days of 3-hour sleep, i was dizzy, i had double-vision, my speech was slurred, and i was bedridden with pain and weakness, i couldn't even hold my baby. my husband and a friend took care of Willow, they had to latch her on for me and hold her to my breasts. i don't even remember most of the first three weeks of her life :(

i started using formula. i started taking 2mg klonopin. i started sleeping. i cried every time i gave her a bottle, but she stopped having the sedation/agitation and while she still had reflux, i was able to hold her, rock her, carry her around and soothe her. i went back on effexor as well, something i'd stopped when i found out i was pregnant, because it works fantastic on fibromyalgia pain, and also i felt PPD looming, bigtime. finally at 1 month old, i was able to take care of Willow by myself.

after a few weeks of restful sleep and stronger days, i weaned myself back down to 1mg klonopin, pumped and discarded for 12 hours post-dose (both meds were at bedtime) and i still had enough supply, no problem. Willow was sedated, lethargic, within an hour after my nursing her! i also went back down to 3 hours sleep. i stopped taking the effexor and went down to .5mg klonopin, i stopped sleeping, but thought i could do it for at least another week or two, just to get that "liquid gold" into her as much as possible! but i hadn't bounced back as well as i thought i had. things were crazy, i don't remember that week very well but at least i had started journaling. i started back on the regular doses, slept again, pumped and discarded for *16* hours post-dose ... she was still lethargic and couldn't eat at her next feeding. her reflux worsened. she was just super-sensitive to the klonopin. (i had tried a LOT of other meds and natural remedies, and none of them had worked.)

i stopped pumping, but expressed milk every time i had a hot shower, just to keep some supply going. i kept having "magical thinking" that i could get off the meds somehow. i re-lactated twice, at 3 months and 5 months, hoping Willow now weighed enough to handle the dosage she was getting. her reflux was pretty bad by then, she refused the breast as often as she refused the bottle. i pumped and gave her whatever i could, even if i had to cup-feed her like a preemie, she got about 6 oz. a day on a good day. it dwindled down to 1 oz. but i still kept trying. the last day she nursed for comfort was when she was 5 months, 4 days old. she screamed and refused the breast, although to this day i still offer it occasionally.

we lay skin-to-skin a lot. she'll playfully mouth my nipple, poke or pat my breasts, sometimes bite down on my nipple (OW! *lol*) but no suckling. i tried dripping the formula from the bottle down to the nipple, so she could learn to nurse for comfort, but no luck.

anyway, that's how the bottle-nursing came along. way back when i first started to bottle-feed her, i had a strong instinct to mimic breastfeeding. i held the bottle nipple next to mine, i held her in the same positions, i watched her latch carefully. i rock, i sing to her, sometimes i prop her on a pillow so i can use my other hand to stroke her. she thrives on the attention, the comfort, the closeness of bottle-nursing. i taught her daddy how to bottle-nurse, and it's not the same for her, but she'll tug at his beard and she's able to relax deeply. she's never held her bottle, i always redirect her hands back to my skin or my clothing. i made a nursing necklace recently, when she started getting wiggly. she will NEVER hold her own bottle! she'll go straight to a cup when she's ready, just as she would if i had nursed her. i'm not sure if she'll need formula past 1 year (depends on her reflux) but she will still get bottle-nursed, especially at night, or naptime ... i can see myself nursing her to sleep, formula or goat's milk or cow's milk, until she's 2 or beyond, if she needs it. i trust her to let me know :love

bartleby

05-27-2005, 06:50 PM

mellybean,

Thanks for the info on nipples, and for sharing your article and personal story. Your article has some very useful tips in it. It seems I am already doing "bottle nursing", and I didn't even know it!

Yesterday, in fact, I had an experience which changed how I look at the way I am feeding my baby. I was at the park, walking the two-mile loop around the lake with my baby in the sling. She started to get fussy, for no reason I could figure at the time (later, I discovered that when I'd tightened the sling, I'd pinched her arm in the rings, leaving a small bruise...bad Mama!). With no bench in sight, I stopped and sat on a strip of grass and mostly dirt along the path. I dug a bottle out of my bag and started feeding her, as she lay close to me in the sling, with some of the sling covering her face to shield her from the sun. A woman walked past and said, "You've found a perfect spot to nurse. That's great!" My first reaction was to feel sad that I am not able to nurse (i.e., breastfeed) my daughter. But then, I looked at what I was actually doing--soothing her, holding her close, sitting in goose poop with ants crawling all over me because I didn't want her to continue crying until I could find a more suitable place to sit--and I realized that of course I was nursing her! Maybe not with breastmilk, but I was certainly nursing her, by at least one definition of the word. So, it was a real turning point for me. And your article just backed me up on that. Thanks!

kaydee

05-27-2005, 09:09 PM

It seems I am already doing "bottle nursing", and I didn't even know it!

Same here! (ALthough my son did eventually*insist* on holding his own bottle, not long before we transitioned to cups and off ABM). We made our bottle feedings match breastfeeding as closely as possible in the sense of having physical closeness, cuddling, etc.

My son is over 2 years now and has long been weaned off of all bottles except the one right before bed. We'll give that up when he indicates or tells us he wants to--but I kinda hope he keeps doing it for a while--it is by far the most extended-snuggly time of the day (otherwise, he's a whirlwind! :LOL)

peaceful_mama

05-27-2005, 09:48 PM

I pumped exclusively for my son who is now 7 mos. old for almost 6 months. I had no clue anybody could possibly NOT be able to breastfeed. The hospital he was born at forced me to give him a bottle at 7 hours old and intimidated me into continuing to do it while 'teaching him to bf'. Well NOTHING undid the damage. By the time somebody clued me in to cupfeeding (and that it had NOTHING to do with a sippy cup, which was my first though, HOW do I get a NEWBORN to use a sippy cup??) it was too late....he'd already started screaming and arching whenever I'd try to nurse. I tried EVERYTHING. He didn't suck hard enough to make a nipple shield work. Nobody told me about SNS either until he was 3 weeks old and totally refusing to latch, crying if I so much as lifted my shirt while holding him.

NOBODY understood. I saw 4 LC's who couldn't solve our problems. I had no friends who understood why bf'ing was so important to me, why I was so upset about the situation, why I didn't just quit pumping and go to bottles. (even though most of THEM bf, none of them had problems doing it!) The one thing I am glad I did was go to LLL. I almost didn't because I was afraid to pull out a bottle in front of them, no matter what was in it. The first meeting I went to, everybody introduced themselves because I wasn't the only new one.....halfway through it, DS started fussing to eat, so I pulled out a bottle, and when it got around to me, I told them all what I was doing.
Every mom there said they supported me, and most of them said they didn't know if they could've done what I was doing. That continued through my next 4 months of meetings. I still go even though I've quit pumping--because I'm HOPING maybe someone will come help me with my next one and because it's the only place around here I've ever met other moms who think like me--bf'ing is important, bf'ing past a year, (and yes I would've if I hadn't had to make a choice between giving my son my milk or my attention) questioning vaccines, co-sleeping, etc. And the ONLY place where I've told people about my son's birth and not had them give me this blank look and go 'what's a doula?' after I've repeated the word 'doula' 3 times cause they didn't know what I said.

Anyway that's my breastfeeding story. I know what it's like to feel you're the only one. :hug

Llyra

06-16-2005, 09:06 AM

Thanks to a traumatic birth, misinformation handed me by medical professionals who should have known better, and a total lack of education and support, I only breastfed by daughter, now 9 months, for about five days, before a nasty episode of nipple confusion and poor latch caused me to stop. After that, I pumped for 5 months, desperately trying to keep up a decent supply, even more desperately trying to teach her to latch properly, and then very, very reluctantly conceded defeat and introduced formula. At this point, she will nurse only in the dead of night, and I can only pump a few ounces a day.

The last few months have been filled with regrets, and "if only I'd know"s. Not breastfeeding is something I'll regret for the rest of my life, and sometimes I am really consumed by guilt over it. Why didn't I educate myself better beforehand? Why didn't I look for help earlier? etc etc etc

If I ever have another child, it sure as heck won't happen again, but that doesn't solve the guilt and regret about THIS child that I love so much.

Anyway, I know I'm not the only one around here who was unable to breastfeed exclusively, whether it's because of physical problems, misinformation, traumatic birth experience, or whatever. And I was wondering if you all wanted to chat.

(Please note: this thread is NOT intended for mamas feeding formula by choice, who could have breastfed and simply chose not to.)

tyedyedeyes

06-16-2005, 02:06 PM

I can relate. When I had my DS, I wanted desperately to breastfeed. I tried and tried and tried, and it seemed that NO ONE would help me. I asked for a breastfeeding helper/person/ "lactation consultant?" while I was in the hospital. One came, but she was rude and busy...she "had to leave" halfway through everything, and go do "some other business". DH and I lived with my parents at the time (for saving money), and although my mom tried to help me with breastfeeding DS, no one really sat down with me and tried to show me, they just said what I was doing wrong but didn't offer a solution. "No, that's wrong, see, he's slipping off the nipple, try again..." After 2 days of him getting almost no food cause I couldn't get him to stay latched, I broke down and fed my perfect baby formula. I tried to pump, and I got out about 4-6 ounces a day. I don't know if this was due to the fact that I had both my nipples pierced before getting pg, and therefore scar tissue had closed up my ducts or what...I don't know, I've been so traumatized by this I haven't been able to research what having nipple piercings do for future breastfeeders. It gets me upset just thinking about it. Now, I'm in fantasy land about the possibility of a 2nd one...and what I would do differently if I could (but probably wont ever happen, cause DH doesn't want any more children :( ) But I do know that if we did decide ever to have another, I would try much much harder, and make sure that I stuck with it. Another thing that really hindered the ability to breastfeed is that almost 6 weeks delivery, I was back at work, full time, second shift. We were so poor, and we needed both incomes. I tried pumping, but the milk never came like it was supposed to.
I do have this though, I tried.

But I do get that gut wrenching guilt sometimes when I see my best friend BF her now 6 month old DD. I just want to leave the room and cry sometimes. So I know how you feel. And I know what you mean too about a traumatic birth experience, and misinformation from doctors. I truly wish I would have been able to get more education and support as well. I did a lot of things I cringe at the thought of these days, and DS is now 2 1/2. Sometimes I cry at night because I feel so bad.

So, i'm in the same boat with you..you know, the one at the bottom of the lake? If you ever need a life vest (shoulder to cry on), i've been stockpiling them and would be happy to give you the support you need and so desperately deserve.

You are loved mama, and hugs to you.

Attila the Honey

06-16-2005, 02:19 PM

I can relate as well. I did manage to bfeed for 7 months, but always with supplementation due to ... well, alot of reasons! It's hard to narrow it down to one!

When I gave birth the placenta wouldn't deliver and I hemorrhaged and lost alot of blood before they got me to the OR and did an emergency d+c. I also was diagnosed with clonus and given phenobarb. the day after I gave birth so we cupfed dd but I believe not being able to nurse that first day had a negative impact, as well as the extreme blood loss and retained placenta (that wasn't discovered for 9 weeks).

After my 2nd d+c at 9 weeks my milk supply did increase somewhat but I think at that point it was maybe too little too late? Also, by then my dd preferred the ease of bottlefeeding. I was very very anemic after 9 weeks of bleeding and a traumatic birth, and so even after the d+c my supply was low.

At 7 months my supply dwindled to nothing thanks to introducing solids and dd outright preferring the bottle. :( She went on a nursing strike and I didn't know what to do. Sadly, and I regret this now, I never went to LLL because I felt like such a failure. I wasn't in a good headspace, I guess.

My dd is 19 months old now and gets a bottle at bedtime. I really am looking forward to when she's weaned from the bottle so I don't have to think about not being able to breastfeed anymore.

meowee

06-16-2005, 02:30 PM

this may turn out to be me... I had recurrent mastitis so severely with my last DC that the infection went into my lymph nodes. I am *terrified* I will not be able to breastfeed this time around. I don't know anything about bottles, formula, goat's milk... I don't even know how to prepare a botle for a newborn (not that I want to). I don't know how to calm a young baby without using breastmilk.

:hug

tyedyedeyes

06-16-2005, 02:36 PM

oh meowee, :hug

annT

06-27-2005, 12:12 PM

Bump

Doon

06-27-2005, 08:29 PM

Eek. I am a brand new mother (9 days) and have been feeling extremely down. I was always positive I was going to breastfeed because of all the benefits to my child. Now that my baby is here I am feeling totally overwhelmed by breastfeeding. I feel so guilty and selfish, because the feedings are going fine, except for the fact that I have come to resent the time I have to feed. I break down and cry. Also I long for my pre-pregnancy breasts that I could enjoy sexually. Now they leak all the time. I feel very vulnerable posting this, and would appreciate sensitive advice. Like I said I feel awful feeling this way because I love my baby so much, but I am just feeling like a total basketcase and feel like throwing in the towel and resorting to formula. I know there are many pro-breastfeeding mothers and many moms who cannot breastfeed, which is why i feel so awful admitting this considering I'm the one who can't handle it, not my baby.

corysmilk

06-27-2005, 08:55 PM

humm I am not sure how to respond. I think you should wait it out. I mean your breasts are still sexual. Ajusting to breastfeeding takes more than 9 days. Formula is not a second option in my opinon. It really is not ideal for an infant if you can breastfeed you should. there are moms onthis thread that really couldn't, they did not choose to formula feed their babys. I see you are new here. Perhapes post in the breastfeeding forum. they will beable to help you. PLease don't give up.

boingo82

06-27-2005, 09:06 PM

Doon, I can identify. I felt the same way at first. However, within 2 months things had settled, I wasn't leaking all the time anymore, and the pain had gone away. I am now glad I stuck with it. :hug I hope things get better for you soon.

JaneS

06-27-2005, 09:12 PM

Trust me Doon, we were ALL basket cases then!! It's totally normal!!
In those early days, you can also do fun things like watch movies or read a book while bf'ing. Try to look at it as relaxing time to put your feet up. I know it's hard b/c it seems like that's all you do in the first month or two. But ask for extra help from family, friends, neighbors... they'll understand. There's a great PPD forum here too. :hugs

mandalamama

06-28-2005, 03:54 AM

:hug Doon you're definitely going through something normal! i went to a LLL meeting at 3 weeks and spoke of the same worries and feelings you have, and was very reassured that all the other mamas had gone through it. they said that around 6 weeks seems to be the time where things peak and then get so much better. check out the Breastfeeding boards here, they are fantastic and you can post your worries and a lot of caring mamas will "talk you through it" no problem. please be sure to find a local LLL group, or an LC who can visit you at home. ask your pediatrician if they can do lactation consultation, our ped. is a former LC and has been a tremendously caring help to me. hope this helps!

re: my situation ... there's hope for me yet!! i was just diagnosed hypothyroid, and also with "nonspecified connective tissue auto-immune disorder" ... i know that sounds bad, but *both* conditions are treatable by meds that don't affect breastfeeding! i may be able to go off, or wean down quite a lot, the meds that caused me to stop breastfeeding, and be able to re-lactate again! **knocking wood** i don't think Willow will take the breast again, but at least she'd have EBM. it's been 7 months now with formula and i STILL feel bad every time i feed her with a bottle, no matter how well she's doing, kwim? so wish me luck! :)

corysmilk

06-28-2005, 10:43 AM

mellybean: there is a great forum. it is call the adoptive breastfedding site. They are not very busy over there but there is some great resources. some of these moms have breast feed olderabys that have never had the breast at all. Do you bottle nurse? perhapes she will latch? it never hurts to try. i wish you all the best. :thumb I tryed to relactate with dd after one month of not nursing but she wouldn;t latch. I wish I has stuck it out. i was forced to wean at 11 months to go on meds. The meds made me very sleepy and I couldn't care for the kids. SO I stopped them, well the ones that were bad for breastfeeding I stillstayed on prozac. I wish so much I had the knowlege then that I have now.

I am going to look for linkI found it (http://www.fourfriends.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php)

I wish you all the best.
:love

meowee

07-28-2005, 11:29 AM

Hi! wanted to let you know I started a thread for moms who had trouble BFing or who couldn't and are afraid of it happening "the next time." I noticed there are some mamas here who couldn't BF but want to try the next time. I told my story on the thread here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=320531

Solange

07-29-2005, 10:26 PM

I am looking for AP mothers who are bottle feeding for various reasons that they just cannot breastfeed at all.

I have breastfed my two children; my firstborn I bf'd until he was 3.5 years old and my dd until she was 4.5 months old and my health unfortunatley had me abruptly weaning her.

I am using organic soy formula for her and would like to be able to have a safe place to ask questions regaurding bottlefeeding and need the support of AP mamma's. I do not want to have to go to a mainstream board to ask about bottlefeeding.

I hesitate to post this here as I know most here BF and do not want anyone coming on this thread judging mammas who have no choice but to feed their babies AIM. I personally cannot afford EBM from a milk bank.

I practice all aspects of AP with dd and when feeding her we still call it nursing because that is what we do.

My dream is when my ordeal is over that I will put dd back to breast even tho there is no milk, as we all know there is more to breastfeeding than the nutritional aspect of it.

SO is there anyone here who is bottlefeeding with love?

Solange

07-29-2005, 10:47 PM

:hola: I hope there is still some life left in this thread....I need you mammas!!

I just found this thread and need it badly...I do not have time to go thru all 8 pages of posts, I am sorry, but the OP of the start of this thread called to my heart.
I actually came here and posted a new thread calling out for bottle feeding AP mammas...
By my sig line you can see that I cannot bf my dd now. We did until she was 4.5 months and then I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's. I breasfed my ds until he was 3.5 years old and had the same child lead weaning intent with dd.
We went thru H*** and back in the early months, dd and I, with fissures on my nipples the size of the grand canyon and mastitis 2x-thrush... you name it BTDT(and no issues at all with ds and bf'ing what a ride this was)....only to get it right for a few weeks and then have it all taken away.

She is now fed organic soy formula. She will be 1 Aug 6th.
We are AP thru and thru and we still call feeding her nursing in this family because that is what we do.

I have to go b/c it is waaay late
I will bbl....

Rivka5

08-01-2005, 11:24 AM

Boy, was I glad to find this thread.

I always imagined that I would breastfeed, and that it would be the cornerstone of my parenting style. When I stopped trying, I was filled with grief. And it seems as though I have the choice of either being on sites where that grief isn't understood, or being on sites where I feel judged and ashamed for bottle-feeding.

I haven't known where to go to ask questions, or find information, related to bottle-feeding. For example, everything I could find about the wisdom of delaying solids until after six months assumed that you'd be exclusively *breastfeeding* before then. I couldn't find any information about whether there were health advantages to delaying solids in favor of *formula.* (My pediatrician says yes, so that's what we'll be doing.)

I don't feel guilty about stopping breastfeeding, because I tried *everything.* I had three lactation consultants, actively pro-breastfeeding midwives who even made lactation homevisits, a mother who nursed before nursing was cool, and a pediatrician who was pro-breastfeeding and *never* asked me to give formula. I had a supportive husband who took over everything else at home so that I had nothing to do but try to make breastfeeding work. And it didn't.

Breastfeeding is best for the baby's health. But when my daughter was four weeks old, she was still five ounces under her birthweight. She latched on just fine, but had a terribly weak suck and couldn't drink enough to satisfy herself. When she developed gastric reflux at around three weeks, things got even worse - she just wanted tiny sips of milk to soothe her throat, and hated having a full stomach.

Breastfeeding is best for the mother's health. But my daughter's inability to fully drain my breasts left me with a case of mastitis that turned out to be antibiotic resistant, and was so severe and so long-lasting that my midwife feared permanent damage to the breast. And I was so sick and so stressed out that by my four-week postpartum visit I weighed ten pounds less than my pre-pregnancy weight.

Breastfeeding is best for the mother-child relationship. But all I did all day was try to get my baby to nurse. We spent all her waking hours with me trying to force her to do something that was hard with her. I never had the chance to just relax and enjoy her, and she was under constant pressure.

So I don't feel guilty, but I do feel ashamed sometimes when I pull out a bottle in public, or when someone just assumes that I'm nursing and I have to correct them. Because no one can tell anything about our history when they see Alex being bottle-fed. People have said such hurtful things, like the woman who left a comment in my LiveJournal comparing formula-feeding to not using a carseat. Or they'll talk about "lazy formula-feeding mothers." I wish there was a way for lactivists to focus more on societal changes and education and support for pregnant women and new mothers, and less on condemnation of women who are already formula-feeding. Because I desperately want to breastfeed my (hypothetical) next baby, but hanging out in breastfeeding forums is just too painful.

pumpkingirl71

08-01-2005, 11:39 AM

I am so glad I found this thread : ) I haven't had a chance to read it all yet, but I wanted to respond while my son would allow it!

I was unable to breastfeed. My son would not latch and I didn't respond to pumping or drugs to help build a milk supply. A supplimental nurser didn't help either.

Mostly I have grieved for my loss, but there are still parts that I am dealing with. The biggest is that my son was supposed to by our only biological child, but now I would like to have another child. I don't know how much of this is due to my desire to breastfeed a child. I still have unresolved feeling about my own selfishness. I tried for long because I wanted to breastfeed, but it was like torture for him.

I am still very sensative to militant breast feeders who talk about the *few* moms who truly can't breastfeed, as if they are giving you permission not to feel guilty or there are these woman pretending they couldn't breastfeed.

Thank you again for starting this thread :)

peaceful_mama

08-01-2005, 01:28 PM

I posted my story before.

Now I am feeling really guilty that I quit pumping. DS is 9.5 mos and on Nutramigen. I feel bad about it especially now that I know about the bad parts of that formula in particular.
However, I know I am not at a point where it is realistic that I could relactate successfully, and it just doesn't hold appeal for me with the knowledge that my baby won't nurse. Add to that the fact that he's active and I really feel he needs me available to play, etc. not starting to pump again every 2 hours all day long............and well, there you go.

I am curious to know something though....I read a post on here about being able to get milk bank milk.....could MY infant with food allergies qualify? I always assumed not because he does fine with Nutramigen.....but could I have been wrong?
I also figure by the time I've fought this battle for him he'd be a year and not qualify due to age anyway. This is more something I want to know for future reference than anything.

And yet........just because I feel it would be so much better for DS there's a little part of me that wants to attempt it..........but I KNOW in 2 weeks I'd be frustrated like I was before--that I can't just take him to the park and spend all afternoon because I have to go home and pump, etc etc etc.

I think honestly I just need to get this behind me but I don't think it's REALLY going to be OVER until he is out of bottle-age.

Rivka5

08-01-2005, 01:49 PM

I am still very sensative to militant breast feeders who talk about the *few* moms who truly can't breastfeed, as if they are giving you permission not to feel guilty or there are these woman pretending they couldn't breastfeed.

We all hit a stopping place, you know? And it's so easy for someone else to say "Well, if you'd just continued on, EVENTUALLY it would've worked."

On one forum I read, there's a mom who had similar issues to mine - poor suck, poor weight gain, reflux, mastitis. She eventually did make breastfeeding work, but only after her baby had been hospitalized *twice* for failure to thrive. I just wouldn't have gone that far. My stopping place was "before the baby winds up in the hospital." Does that mean I didn't try hard enough? This woman is pretty militant, so she'd probably say yes. But I know I made the best decision for my baby.

sinsaratea

08-01-2005, 06:48 PM

Fellow bottle nurturers:

thank you for being here. I won't go into everything i've been thinking because many of you have put it so well in previous posts. it just seems that everything i had planned about birth and mothering was falling apart. tried going natural, she was situated wrong and i got an epidural (grieving about that). from the stress and exhaustion we had a hard time starting off and so then breastfeeding got screwed up. i still try to get her to latch on, but its useless. she loves the bottle. when i finally read somewhere that nursing is not just at the breast... its holding, gazing, loving, etc, i was overjoyed. and we enjoy many other AP things such as babywearing and sleep sharing.

i'm just happy to know that i'm not alone and that perhaps i have found a tribe of my own :innocent

cielle

08-01-2005, 07:05 PM

I've got my story up thread but I wanted to comment on the feelings about the bfing forums. Once I stopped trying to latch and went exclusively to pumping, I stopped reading all of the information about trying to correct bf problems. Once I stopped pumping, I stopped reading bf forums completely. I didn't start looking at them again until four months ago when my second son was born and was a successful nurser. And when I did go back it was hard, and that was three YEARS after the fact.

I think it's absolutely true that some lactivists need to be show more kindness but you do not have to be the one to teach them that, not at the expense of your own mental health. In a year or two when you've processed things, then you can go back to those forums and offer input based on your experience. In the beginning though, it's just too raw and hard.

As far as the milk bank question, I think even if you qualify they still charge you and it is very expensive, like $3/oz or something.

StrongSingleMama

08-02-2005, 01:01 AM

I think that this is a great forum. All of my mommy friends breastfeed and I just feel lonely and left out sometimes. It is tough. My dd was born @ 28 weeks. I have to have an emergency c-section because of severe preeclampsia. She was in the NICU for 9 weeks. During that time I pumped and brought the milk in to the NICU. When she was about 35 weeks gestational age I started trying to breastfeed her. It went okay but because she was so small she still had to have bottles w/22 cal formula as a supplement. I had a hard time keeping my milk supply up since she wasn't with me.

Right before she came home I got on the Depo shot. Well within about 3 weeks of getting on the shot my milk supply dried up. I tried everything, I drank tons of water, ate loads of oatmeal, drank Mothers Milk tea and took concentrated Fenugreek like crazy...but my milk still dried up. So I pumped/breastfed my dd for a total of 3 months. I am glad at least that she got the initial milk but I really miss the bonding aspect that comes with breastfeeding. It is tough, I still have days when I feel sad that I am not breastfeeding. It is hard being judged and having people ask me why I am not breastfeeding and then I have to explain the whole story to them.

I feel like there is so much support and help with breastfeeding and not enough with bottle/formula feeding. It hurts my feelings when people say that you can't truly be AP without breastfeeding. I don't think that is true at all. I CD, co-sleep, and wear my dd and we spend lots of time cuddling, reading books, talking, watching baby einstein, having tummy time, etc. I think that there are lots of ways to bond.

pumpkingirl71

08-03-2005, 08:12 AM

We all hit a stopping place, you know? And it's so easy for someone else to say "Well, if you'd just continued on, EVENTUALLY it would've worked."

On one forum I read, there's a mom who had similar issues to mine - poor suck, poor weight gain, reflux, mastitis. She eventually did make breastfeeding work, but only after her baby had been hospitalized *twice* for failure to thrive. I just wouldn't have gone that far. My stopping place was "before the baby winds up in the hospital." Does that mean I didn't try hard enough? This woman is pretty militant, so she'd probably say yes. But I know I made the best decision for my baby.

I had the same experience, I met moms who had "succeeded", but their childdren had been hospitalized more than once. My Bradley teacher even told me that if I persevered, I would succeed, but to expect dehydration and the need for medical intervention. She was trying to encourage me, but I heard it as formula is a healthier option for my baby. I think breast is almost always best, but is it worth dangerous helath problems? It is kind of like a math problem, long term health benefits + short term health crisis=? There is no answer to that question.

^guest^

08-03-2005, 09:13 AM

My daughter and I were also unable to have a breastfeeding relationship. I'm still entirely uncertain the exact cause, as she doesn't have any food allergies, but she would scream and cry inconsolably at the breast. The closest thing I can figure, she disliked the way I had to hold her to breastfeed (she's EXTREMELY picky about everything, including how exactly you hold her, high need baby n all). I tried repeatedly, tried pumping but apparently I'm a "bad pumper" and never experienced any kind of let down. I tried for 3 months, figuring she would be more okay with it as she got older, and still no joy. I beat myself up for a long time over it, reading far too many bf'ing mamas trials and overcoming of breastfeeding obstacles, and felt as though I'd not tried hard enough, even though I was back to working full time when she was just 1 month old (-_- sigh), and it took me an hour of pumping to get just 2 ounces, or sometimes just an ounce. I had a consultant look me over, check out my hold, my posture, her latch, everything. Nothing lept out as being wrong, but for some reason, it just wouldn't work between us. I felt like such a failure, and worse, felt like my own baby had turned on me and my plans for natural parenting.

I usually don't explain why I don't breastfeed, or even mention that I don't, because of the "breastfeed, no excuses" attitude I've seen expressed in certain circles. If they could rain fire and brimstone down on my head for "denying" my Pook breastmilk, they probably would, and frankly I think any new mother, especially a new mother of a high energy, high need child who needs constant attention if she is not asleep (and HATES SLINGS *cry*) has enough to deal with without drawing down the scorn of people who think their feeding choices for their children somehow make them more righteous than others. Sure, there's a stereotype of formula feeding mothers who just didn't care, didn't know, didn't try - there's also a stereotype of the militant breastfeeding mother who thinks she's better than everyone else and would happily slap you in the face with one of her breasts if it would further the cause of breastfeeding - and I don't think it's fair to employ EITHER stereotype when you're dealing with people you don't know and don't know their circumstances.

If I ever have another baby, you bet I'm going to give breastfeeding a good old college try once again. Just because I didn't develop a breastfeeding relationship with this baby does not mean I can't try with the next.

^guest^

08-03-2005, 09:20 AM

We all hit a stopping place, you know? And it's so easy for someone else to say "Well, if you'd just continued on, EVENTUALLY it would've worked."

I meant to add this into my post also...I've heard this so often too. Just keep going, just keep going, it'll happen. When months pass and it refuses to "click", and everytime you whip out a boob to try again, you sob because you can't face the screams and cries of failure that you know are coming, you hit a brick wall. What do you pick, your sanity and a bottle, or a long haul through who knows how long of misery, guilt, and exhaustion? This is not to say that one should give up at the first sign of trouble, but everyone has their breaking point, and it's no one's place but one's own to judge the validity of that breaking point.

Satori

08-03-2005, 10:43 AM

I'm still entirely uncertain the exact cause, as she doesn't have any food allergies, but she would scream and cry inconsolably at the breast. The closest thing I can figure, she disliked the way I had to hold her to breastfeed (she's EXTREMELY picky about everything, including how exactly you hold her, high need baby n all).

How old is your baby now? It sounds like your may have had 3 possible problems.

1) She's got acid reflux
2) She's got SID/DSI issues (check out the Special Needs forum)
3) She threw something out of whack during birth and needs to see a chiro. Was her birth unusual? Extremely short? Prolonged pushing stage? Traumatic in some way? This is an issue for a lot of babies.

Just giving you ideas to help your dd now and possible things to look for with your next child:)

cielle

08-03-2005, 11:20 AM

ITA about the stopping point. I had already driven myself into major PPD, how much farther could I go? I had to stop trying or I was going to end up being completely non-functioning.

pumpkingirl71

08-03-2005, 11:39 AM

Anyone know if Mothering has ever done an article about "us"?

I wrote them this letter about a month ago, but they didn't respond:

"Dear Mothering,

I am wondering if Mothering has ever done an article about mothers who were not able to breastfeed? I ask because I enjoy many of the articles in your magazine, but I often feel very alienated by the overall tone of Mothering.

Despite what seemed like an army of lactation consultants, La Leche League, and a specialist pediatrician, I was not able to breastfeed my son. Before my son was born, I saw breastfeeding as the only option. I read books and attended breastfeeding classes. I came away with the smug attitude that anyone, barring major medical problems, could breastfeed if they put in the work and educated themselves. When I accepted that I would not be able to breastfeed, I felt like I was accepting that I was a failure. I was truly ready to throw in the towel on any form of natural parenting because I really felt like I had been lied to. Over time I met other mothers, more than I ever expected, who were committed to breastfeeding and who could not breastfeed.

I understand that Mothering wants to encourage breastfeeding. But I really do believe there are lots of mothers like myself who would welcome an article about mothers who could not breastfeed. As I said, I often feel that the tone of Mothering is that breastfeeding is the ONLY way to mother. While I agree that it is the best in almost all cases, some moms cannot. In addition to moms like me, adoptive mothers would also welcome an article on raising a child who is not breastfeed.

Thank you,"

AlleyCat213

08-03-2005, 11:32 PM

i can't begin to explain how happy i am to have found other mothers who could not breastfeed. it seems like ever since the day i went into labor, my life's intent has been to ... let's say ... humble me.

i am studying to be a midwife so of course i planned a home birth. and of course i planned to breastfeed. well, after 62 hours of hard labor, with contractions never more than five minutes apart for 45 hours of that, i was only dilated to a 7, and i was nearly delirious. so off to the hospital i went for the awful experience i could probably have expected and yet was still surprised about. i gave birth within an hour of arriving at the hospital, and basically only used their table since i had no monitor, iv, episiotomy, epidural -- nothing. for so long i wondered why it happened so quickly once i reached the hospital, and i truly believe now that my fight-or-flight response kicked in, and rather than stopping my labor, it just kicked it into high gear so i could have my baby as quickly as possible and, on a primitive level, get him to safety. so some would say that i still had the birth i wanted -- vaginal, more or less intervention-free, and certainly drug-free -- and yet those people could never comprehend the immense pain i feel every day at the way my son was brought into this world.

immediately following the delivery my son was taken to a table on the other side of the room, where he was suctioned and slapped for ten minutes. when he finally came to me, he was clean and swaddled with just his little face peaking out, and i felt NOTHING. i was flat. it didn't compute that all that work had resulted in this little alien creature. they took him away for "observation" and i, this incredibly assertive, loud-mouth, know-it-all woman, didn't even think to object. later they returned him to me and i tried to put him to the breast -- nothing. they gave him a bath, against my objections, and of course he got cold. rather than allowing him to lay against my skin, they insisted on taking him to the nursery to put him under the lights. he was gone for hours. and i am ashamed to say that i didn't care. i hadn't slept for four days and all i wanted to do was sleep like death.

finally i became more interested in putting isaiah to the breast. but nothing happened. he sucked and cried and sucked and cried, but nothing came out. he'd been given a bottle in the nursery (again, against my explicit wishes), and he couldn't get the sucking right. they tried to put me on a supplement (the tube thing), but he couldn't latch on properly. this problem was compounded by my flat nipples. he wasn't getting a drop no matter how hard i tried. they promised to send a lactation consultant to me but it was hours and hours until they did. when she came, she tried several different techniques and nothing worked. finally she brought me an industrial pump (which i now know was ridiculous because all i had was colostrum), which also did not work. they sent me home with bottles of formula and told me to keep trying to train him on the breast. they were, of course, very supportive of me trying to breastfeed, while sending me home with a "gift bag" full of advertizements for formula, coupons, samples, etc... hm. very motivating. :LOL

this is the stickling point that i reach with lactivists who say, "oh, so many women just can't handle the crying while the baby is learning to breastfeed, so they give up and go on the bottle." it is EXCRUCIATING to know that your child is starving, you're full of delicious, nutricious food, and YOU CAN'T GIVE IT TO HIM. all you want to do is satisfy his hunger, to make him happy. we have an incredible driving need, biologically, to satisfy our infants' needs, especially hunger. in some cases, sure, it's laziness, or squeamishness, or impatience. but sometimes it's a beautiful and fulfilling desire to make your child happy, to see his or her eyes roll with satisfaction at the feeling of fullness.

look, we all know "breast is best." we've all read the statistics about ear infections, colds and coughs, allergies, etc. we've all heard the talk about bonding. as a training midwife i've heard it more than anyone. and i believe it, really i do. but when you get right down to it, in the middle of the third night of having our son home, he stopped taking the supplement at my breast. he'd take the formula in his mouth and spit it right out. he screamed for six hours straight before falling into an exhausted sleep. i squeezed my breasts until i thought they would pop. not a single drop of fluid appeared. i sobbed and raged and screamed until 8 in the morning, when i called my new-mother friend in desperation and asked her to please come feed my child from her breasts. she was over in five minutes and gave my son his first full meal since he'd been born. my heart just broke at seeing how well he latched on, watching him stare at my friend's face as he gulped and gulped. he fell into his first full-stomach sleep and i have never been so relieved in my life. any mother in her right mind would give her child a bottle rather than starving him. i read stories of mothers who persevered so long that their children are hospitalized, and i think, that's a success story? maybe breastfeeding is much more about you than about your child in that case. that seems like pure selfishness to me, to starve your child so you can feel "empowered."

later that day my midwife came by to see if she could figure out what the problem was. we spent two hours poring over my breast size, shape, structure, pushing, pulling, yanking like you wouldn't believe. and at the end of it i finally started getting a few drops out. she felt my breasts for an hour or so before finally saying that she suspected i had recessed milk glands. the milk glands usually start about an inch behind the nipple, but mine are more like five inches behind. the theory behind breastfeeding is that the infant stimulates the milk glands with his mouth, basically expressing the milk himself. this is of course assisted by letdown, various hormones, state of mind of the mother, position, etc. with recessed milk glands, however, my son couldn't stimulate them, so the milk couldn't come down. perhaps if he could have worked at my breasts for longer than thirty seconds in a sitting, something may have worked out. but i've been blessed with the world's most impatient baby, and thirty seconds is about as long as he gives me (even now) before he gets so upset he can't eat.

i visited various lactation consultants and they all confirmed this finding. the other problem was that my glands were so far back, even pumps didn't work. i was encouraged to try hand-expressing and continue to use my son as a stimulant by essentially using my breasts as a pacifier -- a nice idea that my son wasn't exactly receptive to due to my flat nipples.

hand-expressing necessitated the use of supplementary formula as i didn't produce very much. i used everything available to boost milk supply and never saw a difference, although i did sweat maple syrup for quite a while. hand-expressing was one of the more frustrating experiences in my life. my son has never been a napper and so i had to hope and pray he'd be quiet for fifteen minutes five to seven times a day -- what a laugh. but i did my best. the problem that arose was that i had to squeeze soooo hard to get the milk out, and i had to really dig in to reach my glands -- so i became quite bruised and so swollen, my scant milk supply started to drop. it was so frustrating trying to keep my son calm while slaughtering my back and shoulders with that awkward repetitive position, plus trying to keep the little cup stable while the milk dripped in. i can't tell you how many times i screamed in frustration and threw that little cup at the wall after it tipped over. but i cannot deny the triumph i felt at getting a whole 2 oz. from both breasts combined in a sitting! unfortunately that was the most i ever got. i had been using those nipple attachment things to try to draw out my flat nipples, and ten days or so after my son was born, my midwife suggested i try an industrial pump.

this is where my story gets really ugly. the pump only drew out milk on maximum. i don't know how many of you used an industrial breast pump on maximum seven times a day for twenty minutes at a time, but the pain is excruciating. i am a redhead and my skin is very thin and sensitive, and after a few days i was already starting to develop sores. i could actually see the pump pulling bits of skin off my nipples, as disgusting as that is. :bag: my nipples stung so much i could barely handle wearing clothes. intimacy with my husband was out of the question; i could barely handle hugs. my breasts leaked all the time. i continued to try to use myself as a pacifier for my son but he never responded. i never got very much and it never seemed to satisfy my son, but i was happy he was getting milk from me at all. i thought, maybe i can do this for a year. surely my nipples will toughen. i was happy he was getting some sort of nourishment from me, some immunities. but a month into pumping, i started bleeding profusely. all the milk i pumped had to be dumped out because of the blood in it. my nipples became horribly mutilated. it was disgusting. i would sob pumping, determined that i would get over the pain, and toughen my nipples, and eventually get over this and be able to give my son my milk again. my midwife came to visit, took one look at my nipples, and told me to stop flagellating myself. she said, "your son is surviving fine on the formula. he is healthy, happy, growing and thriving. you have done the best you can. let yourself heal!" i cried that night putting the pump away for the last time. i told myself that i would just let my nipples heal and then i'd start pumping again. but by the time i could have pumped again, my milk had dried up.

i have to say that having justification for stopping the pumping was such a relief. i wasn't enjoying my son, or my life. i was in constant pain, physically and emotionally. i was flagellating myself. this was compounded by incredible debilitating pain in my back and shoulders (recently diagnosed as fibromyalgia), and pain and pressure from a prolapse i developed after the birth. i was so exhausted at the end of the day, i scared my husband on multiple occasions by not even stirring when my son, lying right next to me, would scream in the middle of the night. i stopped pumping, stopped hand-expressing, and i was finally able to relax and enjoy life with my son. i could play with him, hug him, and be affectionate with my husband again. and i totally consider that worth it. i would rather have a fulfilling relationship with my son (and husband) and have him living on formula, than be miserable, repulsive, resentful, in constant pain, and deeply depressed. it is sad to say, but it was only after i gave up the idea of breastfeeding my son that i was able to bond with him. so what does that say about breastfeeding being essential to bonding? :idea

but i still feel enormous guilt. i tell people that i'm studying to be a midwife and they look at my bottle-fed son with skepticism. i feel ashamed every time i feed him in public. sometimes i'll even feed him in the bathroom to avoid the "looks" -- you know, the "looks"? and every time i feed my son, i still ache to put him to my breast. shouldn't i be feeling better after all this time? shouldn't that driving biological function have diminished after four months? but it gets stronger all the time. i've even considered using a supplementary system again -- so that if he wasn't being fed by the breast, he'd at least be fed at the breast. but then i wonder if it would even work after all this time. those little tubes are so tiny and my son is such an avid eater.

my son is four months old now. i use cloth diapers. my son has never had diaper rash. he laughs, giggles, sleeps through the night, and grins when he sees me. he slept in our room the first four months and then moved to a crib when he started sleeping through the night. he's teething already and i was told to start him on rice cereal at 3 1/2 months old. he's doubled in weight from his original 8 lb. 3 oz. -- he's hefty, pudgy, and beautiful. he responds immediately to voices and faces and even mimics me when i say "dadada" or "mamama." he follows my hands when i use sign language with him. he rolled, held up his head, and sat with support well before the expected time. we're raising him organic, vegan and making our own baby food. i used a sling as long as he'd let me, but he hated being confined. now that he sits with support he can use it again, and i keep him close to my body as much as i can. we would have kept him in our room much longer but i was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and i absolutely had to have my rest. and now i am so grateful that my husband can get up with him in the night and feed him without even rousing me, because before i was diagnosed i'd been in so much pain i couldn't even pick up my son anymore, and i feel asleep at the drop of a hat. now i am coming alive to my son. i am convinced that "bonding" through breastfeeding has much more to do, in general, with the mother than with the baby. my son bonded with no problem. i only recently bonded entirely. i'm struggling still with a pretty serious post-partum depression, but i adore my son. he is strong and capable, intelligent and healthy, and he knows i'm his mama. do i think he would be even better if he had been breast-fed? maybe. but i never feel a lack in my little boy. he is perfect and i'd never let anyone convince me otherwise.

Rivka5

08-04-2005, 06:42 AM

Oh God, AlleyCat, I'm so sorry. What a hard, hard story.

^guest^

08-04-2005, 08:19 AM

How old is your baby now? It sounds like your may have had 3 possible problems.

1) She's got acid reflux
2) She's got SID/DSI issues (check out the Special Needs forum)
3) She threw something out of whack during birth and needs to see a chiro. Was her birth unusual? Extremely short? Prolonged pushing stage? Traumatic in some way? This is an issue for a lot of babies.

Just giving you ideas to help your dd now and possible things to look for with your next child:)

1 is very possible, it has not been diagnosed as we officially have a medicaid dr. who is none too supportive of non-vaxing parents, but I've suspected it since she was about 1 month old, and have been treating her as though she has it (burping frequently during and between meals, sitting upright, smaller feedings more often, etc) and she hasn't had any of the screaming episodes she was prone to during 1 month (which I was told was just colick, of course :angry ). But by then, I was already at my wit's end when it came to my attempts to bf. I don't know what, if anything, I could have done differently to promote a bf'ing relationship. Every hold I could use for breastfeeding, she hated, and it's difficult to feed a screaming baby :/

2 I have no idea what that is O.o

and 3, nope, my midwife actually deemed my labor "textbook perfect". No complications, no drugs, 6 hours of latent labor, 6 hours of hard labor total, no tearing on my part, no strain or trauma on Nora's.

And we have found, she really is just *extremely* particular about everything, it's a trait we've noticed in her since birth. She demands to sleep a certain way, and will not sleep until that demand is met. She will be restless until you are doing the exact activity she wants to do, whether it's walking, sitting, watching tv, or helping her stand up or sit. What can I say, she's a princess, lol.

ETA AlleyCat, I know what you're talking about on pumps on maximum :( I had the same issue, and with how little I got from each pumping, sitting in front of that thing, the only thing I could think was "Mooooooooooooooooooo..." everytime I hooked up to it, just seeing less and less of my already small supply at every pumping. Those things HURT when you're using them on maximum 7-9 times a day :(

Satori

08-04-2005, 01:39 PM

And we have found, she really is just *extremely* particular about everything, it's a trait we've noticed in her since birth. She demands to sleep a certain way, and will not sleep until that demand is met. She will be restless until you are doing the exact activity she wants to do, whether it's walking, sitting, watching tv, or helping her stand up or sit. What can I say, she's a princess, lol.

Sounds like she's got SI issues, you can get her evaluated for free through your states early intervention program. Those OT's work miracles! :D Check out http://www.sinetwork.org for some information. I'd never even heard of it until my dd was dx'd with it and I had thought she was just a really really high needs kid until they started doing therapy and life started becoming easier. I litterally was unable to put her down her first 18 months of life, even when she was sleeping. A month of therapy and she was actually playing on the playground whereas the month before she just totally freaked out.

meowee

08-04-2005, 06:39 PM

wow, what moving stories! I used to be one of the militant lactivists who doubted every woman who said she couldn't breastfeed--- oh boy did I have an attitude change! I had low supply with #3 and as another poster said it is the worst pain possible to see your DC be hungry or not seem to get enough. There were days when she peed just twice a day. By that point she would not take a bottle and believe me I would have given her one. She would not suck from a bottle until she was 12 months old and at that point weighed a whopping 17 pounds. The only thing she would take was spoonfed ice water and the fruit baby food (would not take homemade). Then with #4 i had chronic oversupply and repeat mastitis that was so severe I was bedridden more often than not with raging fevers that caused me to hallucinate, despite natural and mainstream treatment. That hell ended when I became pregnant and my milk dried up. Now I look at my breasts and wonder, what will they do to me next? Of course I wrack my brains over what I did wrong and what I can do to prevent these problems in the future. I consulted LCs, midwives, scoured the internet, even read technical books about bovine lactation to try to figure out my repeat mastitis! I am still a militant believer in breastfeeding but I am also now totally supportive and generous-hearted toward women who have BFing problems or who cannot BF and will NEVER be judgemental again.

I wanted to edit to add this little story: with #4 when my milk dried up due to pregnancy she hung on for 2 months. I tried very hard to get her to drink from a bottle or cup because she was "drying up" and I was still having infections. When she finally drank from a bottle (juice) and there I was holding her... well you know what... we stared into each others eyes and this amazing love flowed back and forth between us. I guess I had been made to think that bottles equal less love or something. Breast is best, definitely, but a bottle does not mean that you don't or can't love your baby.

sweetpeasmom

08-05-2005, 08:50 AM

Oh Alleycat :hug that was so hard to read, I can't even imagine what you've gone through during that time. I believe you can bond just as well w/out bf. I believe I bonded just fine with my baby even though she was feed by bottle.

I just wanted to say that my story ended up w/my baby finally learning to bf. I kept up my supply by pumping. I decided a few months ago that I was content with myself to just having to pump for her and not being able to bf. But for some reason a little over a month ago, I decided to try bf again. Well she took to it. No crying, no screaming in pain she just took like she always had bf. I can't believe it still.

Diane B

08-05-2005, 12:36 PM

i just stumbled on this forum today, and I want to give a big hug to everyone.

I adopted my daughter at 6 months old. She was extremely attached to her bottle and it was the only security she had at first. I have tried to bottle nurse her just the way I would breast feed, i.e. on her cue, held close at my breast, and only by a mommy (in our case, we have two!) By that I mean that she doesn't get to wander around holding her bottle, for example. She otherwise drinks out of a sippy cup or regular cup. I would say that both my partner and I enjoy a very nurturing and close nursing relationship with our daughter. She looks forward to her nursing times even as a toddler - she will snuggle in and relax and eye-gaze and all of that. I was sad at first about not getting to breastfeed, but my daughter is healthy, we are extremely connected to each other, and everything is working out.

I ran into a lot of negative formula comments and information when I was trying to find information about organic formula and "attached bottle feeding." We just sort of found our own way with it. I personally am grateful for formula, which kept my daughter alive when she lost her birth mother. I dearly wish we could quit judging and shaming other women and instead work together for a world in which all mamas and pappas are supported and all babies are loved.

Satori

08-05-2005, 12:36 PM

But for some reason a little over a month ago, I decided to try bf again. Well she took to it. No crying, no screaming in pain she just took like she always had bf. I can't believe it still.

That is awesome!
:clap :bgbounce :balloons

mandalamama

08-05-2005, 05:42 PM

congrats, sweetpeasmom!!!

i'm in the process of trying to re-lactate here. i have a little milk so far, and Willow has latched on a few times. she gets bored when there's only a few drops, but it's progress!

other than my husband and a local crunchy email list, i have no support, though. others criticize me, saying "why bother, when she's at the age when she'd wean herself anyway?" *bah* it's like, so many people think BF vs FF is only about nutrition, and even then it's only nutrition for the first 6-9 months it seems.

annakiss

08-06-2005, 11:41 AM

but i still feel enormous guilt......shouldn't i be feeling better after all this time? shouldn't that driving biological function have diminished after four months? but it gets stronger all the time.
In my experience, the guilt took a very long time to be assuaged. Heck, I still feel guilty and my son will be 3 in a week & a half. My son was born with a severe cleft lip & palate that prevented nursing, but I was successful in pumping for 13 months. At about 10 months, my supply dropped beneath his demand and I started herbs to increase it, which didn't do much, and futzed with my pumping methods and schedule to encourage more milk, which also didn't accomplish much. After awhile, I had to begin to forgive myself and decided to wean, which I did very slowly over 2 months or so. I did so with much sadness and I still spent the next year wishing I could nurse boo-boos away and hating the site of the sippy cup filled with cow's milk and the pacifier my son depended on to satisfy the suck his newly-repaired mouth enjoyed. I went into therapy to discuss all this when he was about 18 months old and finally decided to try for another baby who I hoped to nurse without problems.

I am lucky, in a way, that my problems nursing had to do with my child rather than me (though there's not a lot I wouldn't do to take the pain of having to be "repaired" away from my son). I am lucky that I had such an easy time (mostly) pumping. I am especially lucky to be 2 months into a near perfect nursing relationship with my new son.

The path to healing is something unique for every mother. You will find yours, but I am certain it will most of all require time. :hug

Laurel

08-06-2005, 03:34 PM

Hi, I'm Laurel. I'm the one who started this thread--it's been well over 2 years ago!

I just wanted to agree with Annakiss. Healing takes time, but it does happen if you allow it to. My ds just turned 3. The thing that has most helped me through this process has been seeing what a loving, attached little boy he has become. I honestly don't feel that our relationship would be any better if I had been able to continue bf'ing him. We have a very close bond. He is a very physical child, so he still loves to sit on my lap, have me lay in bed and read him stories at nap time (and his feet have to be *on* me), jump on me, sit on my lap at dinner time (or at least have his chair pulled as close to mine as possible), etc. I think it would be hard for his child to be much more physically attached to me through nursing than he already is!

I think at the time we had to stop breastfeeding, my biggest fear was that we wouldn't have as close of a relationship because of it. But that has definitely not been the case. My heart is at peace because of watching things develop over time between him and me. I guess I am lucky that I got a child who is a true "cuddler", because having that has really helped my healing. It has been wonderful to see that my little guy still needs *me*!

I am still wholeheartedly committed to breastfeeding, and I still long to have that experience. I am even more determined to nurse the next baby. We have a baby possibly joining our family through adoption in October if all goes well. Before we made the decision to pursue adopting this child, I had so many challenging feelings about induced lactation. I knew I would still do it, but I felt quite cynical about it working. However, now that I am on that path again, I feel a great deal of peace about it. I am excited to induce lactation again, and I feel very optimistic that we will be successful this time.

Rainbowbird

08-07-2005, 03:14 PM

Laurel, thanks again for starting this thread. It has been a very long time since I posted, about a year, I think. Thanks to all the other moms who posted, as well. I totally agree that bottlefeeding can help to support a close bond. I bottlefeed the way some of the PPs mentioned: in a nursing hold, the bottle very close to my breast, my baby snuggled against me, looking into my eyes or else dozing off to sleep.

I am really glad this thread is here. It's just too hard to explain things to the lactavists, some of whom mean well, others who seem way too judgemental and even obsessed about BFding to me. Anyway, I have failed twice to BF now despite trying my best, but I am coming to terms with it. (I won't go into the whole story here, but it involves poor latch, flat nipples, severe oversupply/engorgement, fair skin that bruises and tears easily, PPD, and acid reflux). I realize that my first child is very bonded to me despite a short time BFding, and very healthy as well. My baby girl is also growing and thriving, fat and happy, responsive and cooing and smiling at 10 weeks. I still dream about BFding sometimes, I even had an actual dream about it last night! But I am grateful that formula exists to keep babies alive and thriving who, back in the "old days" would often die if a wetnurse or friend/relative were not available. How very lucky we are that we have it to feed our babies...along with all the other technology that exists to help preemies, sick babies, etc. to survive. That is the way I look at it now.

I do agree that it should really be a last resort, not a first choice, but I also feel it's not my business to judge. As others have said, you just never know why someone might be using formula.

Hugs to all of you who have had to give up, and hugs to those still trying or hoping to try. Either way, you are all great mamas.

USAmma

08-14-2005, 10:19 AM

Hi. I just wanted to step in here to remind people that MDC does not support the exchange of formula coupons or samples. You may not be aware of this rule.

If you have any questions about this, please PM Cynthia Mosher. Thank you! :) I aplogize for any hurt feelings this post may cause.

RileysMom

08-16-2005, 09:48 PM

Is this just the longest existing thread ever, or what?

Anyway, I wanted to share a healing moment with you. My now 4 year old never went to the breast. She was in the NICU for the first 3 months of her life and always bottle fed, although I pumped milk for her.

My 20 month old I bf'd successfully from birth, although with ALOT of hard work, partly because I've had a breast reduction.

Probably 6 months ago, I was nursing Julia and Riley said, "I want to nurse". She wasn't sure how, but I told her to suck like a pacifier. She leaned in and took 2 long sucks. That's all, but it was soooooo healing some how.....

cielle

08-16-2005, 10:06 PM

That sounds really beautiful. Good for you for appreciating the moment.

JLav

09-01-2005, 01:00 AM

I need some advice on formula and I figured you mamas would be the best to ask. My sister is in the process of adopting a baby and has asked me to research formula for her...I have no idea where to even start. She will be using a supplementer (not sure what kind) and is hoping to induce lactation. Any advice on where to start researching or any recommendations?
Thanks!

SleepyMamaBear

09-13-2005, 02:19 AM

Hi,
i am Tiffany, and i have a wonderful, happy, healthy, incredibly intelligent, completely attatched, funny lil 14 mo dd, who also happens to have been bottle/formula fed.

november 23rd of 99 i had a breast reduction. i had a total of 10 lbs removed and was told i had a minimal chance of breastfeeding. which was something i wasnt to upset about, being a 17 year old who was told the year before i would never have live children, ever, due to a sexual assault that gave me chlamydia and severe PID and 3 Drs said i had such bad scarring in my falopian tubes and uterus that if i WERE ever able to get pregnant i would never go full term, and had 5 miscarriages from a few months after that news, til i was 21.
so when i found out november 15th of 2003 that i was pregnant(and only 2 weeks married!) it was a bittersweet moment. i was SURE i would once again be left heartbroken from yet another miscarriage, and would also break my new husbands heart in the process.
well, turns out, Drs dont know everything!!!!! my dd Adelaine was born via urgent c-sec july 15th 2004, after a very failed induction(yes i DO hate my midwife and warn everyone to stay away from her if they want a natural birth).
as soon as Addy and i met face to face, two hours after she was pulled from my gut, she immediately started suckling on my breast, with nothing to nourish her, and after 3 days of no food coming from my breasts she lost too much weight to not accept the fact i couldnt bf her, and gave her a bottle. she still suckled my breasts when she just wanted so suckle, until she was about 2 months old, and realized, wait, theres nothing IN there!!!! so we bottle nursed, until she got too big for our laps. (she is curently growing into 4t clothing, at almost 14 months), and after that i would lay next to her gaxing into her eyes while holding her close while doing a semi bottle nurse. and we have always had a close feeding bond. she still has a bottle to sleep at night, and we rock and snuggle and i sing her to sleep.
we co-sleep and baby wear, and have her whole life. she is SO attatched, and independant (not mutually exclusive! :) ) and happy.
i KNOW for my future children i want to use the lact-aid supplimental system, and never give them a bottle, if its at all possible. and hopefully some ducts will have opened up more and passage ways will have formed or healed or been spurred on from Addy to work a lil bit, and maybe i will be able to give my future babies at least a little bit of breastmilk from me, while nursing them via lact-aid.
i am sure i am rambling, and not making much sense, or too much sense, if thats possible, but i am over tired from a long day of chasing my now walking toddler and reading a million books to her giant brainy head. :)
i hope to find other mommies out there with the same situation, or other mommies that dont look to point fingers and persecute me for not doing everything i can to breasfeed. and oh boy did i! i pumped every hour for four months, took fennugreek til i smelled like a maple donut shop, continued to try to put her to breast when she would root at night... nothing helped to give me more than 2cc's of breastmilk a day. :(
i still greive about being unable to bf her, and i constantly think about it, and do all the "what if's" and i still have dreams where she nurses. but its much better than it was almost a year ago.
so ladies... here i am!

moistangel

09-26-2005, 12:50 AM

There are a few mamas here on MDC who know me and what I went through to breastfeed Xan for barely more than three pitiful months.

I'm in therapy right now because of it all.

My little Miracle preemie. Screwed by nurses and doctors and myself for being too scared to stand up for his right to be breastfed.

I pumped for months...

I had pre-eclampsia. Severe pitted edema from about six months in. I had trouble breathing one night (the day OFF from laying in the hospital being monitored, of course) and DH took me in. Blood pressure was 196/114. He was born at 34w2d gestation. Perfect. Apgars 9 and 9. They thought I must have been dated wrong but they checked (something?) and said it was right... Via c-section. 12 hours of induction (yay hormones *gag*) and my cervix barely softened, I was not ready to deliver. So they cut him out.

I didn't meet him until he was a few hours old and despite my INSISTING VEHEMENTLY HE BE EXCLUSIVELY BREASTFED they gave him a bottle. -__- They let me feed him but they wouldn't leave him alone with me to feed b/c I wasn't "allowed" to breastfeed b/c I was on magnesium sulfate and it could hurt him. (So they said, I've now learned the odds of that happening were safe, imo, compared to the risks of formula feeding.) Every bottle I cried. I begged for an LC to come and help me. Because he was premature the crappy LC assumed I would EP and brought me a lactina and a pump kit. Then she left.

I read the manual and figured out how to use it. I felt so powerful the first time I pumped even though I didn't get a single drop. And this was 22 hours post partum. I finally felt like I was doing something SO great for Xan.

I got a different LC to come about 30 hours postpartum and she helped me to latch Xan on. I have huge breasts. He was barely five pounds at birth. It was a struggle. We did it, though. She taught me how to pump more efficiently. And the pediatrician (we hadn't chosen one yet, we didn't expect him so soon!) insisted I give him formula after every feeding so he wouldn't lose weight. He said if he dropped below five pounds they'd admit him to the NICU. I was so stupid and gullible. But Xan was so little. I just didn't want to hurt him. So I did it. And cried. First I'd latch Xan on. Then I'd make him nurse at least fifteen minutes (waking a preemie is HARD, man) on one breast, then I'd switch him to the other. Then I'd feed him. He took no more than an ounce or two for the first two and a half months. Then I'd put my baby down (despite every instinct begging to hold him) and pump.

I am an expert pumper.

I had read so much in the last week of bedrest before I delivered about pumping and caring for a preemie. But Xan didn't even go to the NICU! What I had read was useless!

Nearly three months post partum my BP (which has been high since I got pre-e, and remains so) went up again, and they put me on Norvasc. I continued to pump but I dumped it.

Weeks went by my supply went down and down. I'd let Xan comfort nurse but he lost interest. He wanted the stupid bottle.

I have no family who breastfed. They all don't get why I lugged that huge pump with me to every family function. They don't get why I am in therapy about it. They formula fed. They're kids are "FINE." :irked:

I have a few friends who breastfeed but, even if it didn't come easily they are doing great. And, they are NEW friends. I didn't know them when Xan was born...

:hug to all the mamas in here. If you ever need to talk please PM me. I'm sorry my story is so sad. It's hard to make something so heartwrenching sound good, lol.

Thank you, to the OP, for making this thread. I admire your courage. :heartbeat

madtan

09-28-2005, 09:26 PM

I can relate to how you feel.:( I don't feel like I should need to justify to anyone why I wasn't able to breastfeed. Just because I don't breastfeed doesn't mean I don't love my child. Nobody wanted or struggled more to have a child more than me. I was lucky to survive having two great kids. I can no longer have children at the young age of 28. I will think GOD the rest of my life for what he did give me. I don't judge others so why should they judge us. I know that there are wonderful women who breastfeed and choose not to shove it in our face. To those women I say thankyou!

moistangel

09-28-2005, 09:31 PM

The worst part is that I feel guilty b/c Xan wasn't sicker. It's insane to me. I was gifted with this little Miracle and instead I'm upset b/c I messed up. *shakes her head*

No wonder I'm on Zoloft. ;)

I miss the nursing. It's funny, I have no more milk but when Xan eats my breasts still tingle... :down

mandalamama

09-29-2005, 09:18 AM

:hug moistangel :hug i think you did an astounding job because of your devotion to your son. it really shows in your words.

have you also joined the c-section support thread here? it's in Birth and Beyond.

i was only able to feed Willow my breastmilk for the first month, because of my medications. although i'd go off of them and feed her for a day or two and then have to go back on them because i'd get so sick i couldn't care for her. i've been trying to re-lactate since she was 7 months, she'll be a year old in a few weeks, and i'm still trying. i have milk, but can't afford a pump, tried to borrow one on a local list but it just hasn't worked out. i spend a lot of my day just weeping while i try to manually express a tiny bit of milk :( my daughter loves the bottle now also, she pushes away from my breasts. unless she's sleepy or in need of comfort, but then she gets upset that there's not a flow of milk. then i get upset that we have no money for even a cheap pump. sigh. but i'm still trying, i have more milk after a hot shower so i'm trying to increase my supply, i also take Lactation Blend capsules.

great big {{{{hugs}}}} to all the mamas on this thread!

EStreetMama

09-29-2005, 02:31 PM

Hi Mamas--has anyone used goat's milk for infants? Is there a prepared goat's milk formula available?

Also, I feel worst about the breastfeeding when I cannot get a bottle to my baby (5 wk old) quickly and he cries because he's hungry. I know with the breast, I would be able to feed him on cues. Even my breast milk is in bottles. We use a bottle warmer, but it takes 4 minutes. Our bottles are usually prepared and in the refrigerator, which is too cold for him to drink. Any other bottle-warming tricks or other tips that might help us get the baby a bottle faster?

Thanks so much!!!!

Adrienne

Rainbowbird

10-04-2005, 08:27 AM

Adrienne,

When my babies were tiny, we warmed the bottles by heating water in our electric tea kettle, which is really fast. Much faster than the stovetop or microwave. Then we would put the bottle in a bowl or pyrex dish and pour the hot water around it. It was generally warmed enough by the time the diaper was changed.

It's not a perfect system, but I found I could heat the water early even if I was not quite sure they were ready to eat yet. Then it would heat even faster when I really needed it.

At 3 mos., (or maybe it was 2) my doctor told me I could mix the formula straight out of the tap. So now I can quickly mix it up and it is just the right temp.

Good luck and hths!

Satori

10-04-2005, 10:19 AM

At 3 mos., (or maybe it was 2) my doctor told me I could mix the formula straight out of the tap. So now I can quickly mix it up and it is just the right temp.

Good luck and hths!

This is a city by city thing depending on the water quality, here babies under 6 months can't be given tap water because its actually dangerous with our supply. Its even occasionally dangerous for the adults to drink it, a couple times a year they set up big flashing signs at all major intersections not to drink the water. We can usually tell though, when the water is clear its dangerous, when its murky its safe. Go figure. Anyway, you can call your local water dept or health dept to find out if its safe in your area to use tap water for baby bottles.

Diane B

10-05-2005, 09:24 AM

...

JMarie930

10-07-2005, 11:03 AM

It's nice to know I'm not the only one. I don't post much because we're still TTC#2 and DS is almost three (three? where did the time go??), so I've not much to post right now. DS was never breastfed and I knew going into pregnancy that it was a pretty good bet that it wouldn't happen. I need medication daily for a digestive disorder that passes through BM and causes apnea, and I just couldn't risk my son's life like that. Especially since he was five weeks early and had apnea episodes for the first week - it was the scariest thing I had ever seen. He'd just stop breathing and forget to start back up! It has been hard. If I chose to go off my meds, there is no way I could have sustained my own life, let alone his. If I take my meds, I have to FF. Rock, meet hard place. Finally, it all clicked when my GI doctor told me that the most important thing I could give DS is a healthy mom. So I have accepted that and am at peace with it. It wasn't easy and sometimes I still feel judged, but those moms who know me and know my reasons are my biggest supporters. And I have a beautiful, healthy little boy to show for it.

pumpkinseed

10-19-2005, 02:52 PM

:hug to all the mamas on this thread! I just found this, and thought I would share my story. I also was not successful at breastfeeding, and was devastated. We had three strikes against us, and many LCs have said if it was just one or two we might have been successful.
First strike:After a very long natural labor-my daughter had shoulder dystocia and had a broken collarbone as a result. Extremely painful for her to nurse on the one side. She did receive the colostrum while I was at the hospital. By day four she wasn't latching. We tried everything.
Strike two: She was born with an attached frenulem. The LCs thought I should definitely get it clipped, the doctors didnt agree at all. Meanwhile-I was getting horrible blisters, ridges, bleeding...and my milk wasn't coming in even after a week. I started pumping, and was able to get some, but not a full supply. I did the whole nursing, supplementing, pumping...regimen for 12 weeks. At week 3 we were finally able to get an appt. with a pediatric ENT who said most definitely her attached frenulem is a problem. We got her clipped (:() and her latching improved somewhat. But she still wouldn't latch all the time. Probably by this time, she knew there was milk coming out of the bottle easier! Kept up with the attempting nursing, supplementing, pumping...took fenugreek, mother's milk tea, oatmeal, etc...my supply was still horrible.
Strike three: This whole time I am still bleeding post partum. I then find out at week 9-through many tests later, that I still have placenta inside me. I then have to go in for surgery at week 10. I did a huge amount of research and found out that there is a hormonal issue when you still have attached placenta-your body still thinks you are pregnant and therefore cannot make milk. So upsetting, after the surgery, I still tried to get my supply back (started?) and it just didn't work. I was so devastated. I gave her every last drop that I had. I let her still latch if she wanted to, but over time, she didn't want to anymore-probably figured nothing at all was there, so why try?
I learned so much from this experience. My daughter is now almost 1-and I still have issues with it. I still feel as though I was "cheated" somehow. The delivery of the placenta took forever, and was EXTREMELY painful-more painful than the "ring of fire" and the shoulder being stuck. I felt like this should have been a red light to my doctor and that he should have examined the placenta more carefully to see if it was all there...it is so hard every day to give her formula in a bottle. So much so, that I can't even call it "formula"-I just call it her milk. I have no friends who formula feed-they all breastfeed or have breastfed. I would be rich if I had a nickel for everytime someone told me "true supply problems are really rare-its usually just the mom being frustrated"...argh?! And these are my friends? They are not very "natural" just doing the right thing by bf-they all had epidurals and think I was nuts for doing it naturally when the drugs are available. I have had so many problems with my SIL-who every single time I have seen her or spoken to her has to bring up the fact that she bf and I didn't (when I have the energy-I remind her that actually she is wrong, that I did but had problems)...I do have horrible guilt-I get looked at all the time when I am out in public giving her a bottle-its horrible. I am lucky to live in a large metropolitan area where people are educated about bf-however, its harder to be out in public when everyone is bf, giving you looks when you are bottle feeding....I feel like I need to wear a sign saying "I tried-I swear-I truly had supply problems..."
Sorry for the long post-its been a tough week for me. I just want to say that I feel for all of you mamas on this thread-its oddly nice to know that I am not the only one out there...somedays I feel like I am.

simonsmama

10-19-2005, 04:09 PM

Hi. I guess I don't count for moms who can't-at least with this baby, but I did have major trouble feeding my son naturally.
I was a first-time mom with very little to no support. My mom only bottlefed, and the people I knew who breastfed lived far away. My obgyn would not give me something or recommend holistics to increase my supply. At 4wks old, I called the doctor after many sleepless nights and horrible days with a screaming baby and sore breasts. It was about 4am, and the doctor told me to just give the baby a bottle. That was the beginning to an end. I breastfed a couple times a day, just for the immunity and closeness. I had a newborn who would eat an 8oz bottle of formula right after nursing, so that prooved my theory of a low supply. I really blame my obgyn for not helping me to breastfeed exclusively.
:yeah: :clap Thats what happened to me. Oh it feels nice to not be alone in this situation. I always feel like so judged around here. I'm a first time mom, i had NO support whatsoever, and the nurses at the hospital scared me by saying they would have to put him in the NICU if I didn't give him a bottle..........oh well you live and you learn. The next baby will be breastfed for sure.

Ahappymel

10-20-2005, 06:51 PM

I just want to add that although I am a nursing mama who had a vaginal birth, I have a very dear best friend who did not nurse her triplets or have a vaginal birth...and as she put it: "I do not love them any less because I didn't feed them from my boob or push them out of my peepee!" :LOL
Love to all of the loving mamas of the world!

Mel.

DecemberSun

10-21-2005, 07:58 PM

My DS and foster DD are two months apart. I nursed my son for 27 months, and my foster DD took bottles for 26 months. I nursed my son in one arm and held a bottle for my foster DD in the other. Even though I was a nursing mother, I still felt horrible buying formula for my foster DD, or making her a bottle in public. I hated carrying bottles in my diaper bag, I felt like I had to hide them! (Even though I am blonde and Foster DD is Native American and looks NOTHING like me... Most people would understand that she wasn't mine biologically, but still... I felt judged.) The worst feeling I ever had was checking out at the gocery store with my 8 cans of formula for the month, paying by WIC check. OMG, the horrible looks! Not only am I feeding my kid formula, but I am making the government pay for it! I must be lazy and uneducated! :nut Like a pp said, I felt like wearing a shirt that said "My other child is breastfed, I swear!" in big letters. I did pump for my foster DD a little (she had reflux and threw it up anyway, so I didn't do that too often...), and I nursed her if she was REALY going crazy with her drug withdrawels- a little swaddling and a couple sucks on the boob and she was out like a light! She is the cuddliest, most lovable kid ever- even though she was formula fed. She is so intelligent, and has never been sick! She is the healthiest formula-fed baby I've ever known! ;) :throb

You don't see many FFing mamas who practice AP, so I think it's cool and you should all keep up the good work. :thumb

peaceful_mama

10-22-2005, 12:55 AM

Thank you to whoever bumped this so I could find it again! :)

I need it this week. OK I need to know.....is there a point where I am going to 'get over' this??
My son turned a year old the 8th of Oct. My whole story is on this thread somewhere and around this site. The short version of it is that thanks to the pp nurses where ds was born wanting to do what was most convienent for THEM *I* did not get to bf my son. I tried and tried and tried when I got home, but the early bottles wrecked things for us.
I have to admit, when I first got pregnant, yeah, I knew i would bf because it was best for my child, but I wasn't the type who would've been so upset by this. I wasn't AP I didnt' have ap friends......
Then well, the farther along I got, the more I learned, the more I wanted it for the relationship.

It just did not happen for us and it devastated me. I spent SO much time hooked up to a pump, besides still working, and living with my parents--marital stress in addition to feeling like somehow I'd failed my baby--I just didn't KNOW enough for him, if I'd only known at 7 hrs after his birth I could insist that he be cupfed, etc.

The thing is, I didn't even know the questions to ask! I honestly thought I WAS prepared....I knew not to give him a bottle, I went to the class, I watched the video. I read every article (mainstream then) that I could get my hands on. Not one mentioned that there was even a REMOTE possibility my baby might not nurse right away and what to do in that event. NOTHING prepared me for having a pump wheeled into my room and my baby taken to the nursery for a bottle at 7 hours old. NOTHING prepared me to tell them they were WRONG.

Fast forward one year. Now, I have more AP friends than not. I know several nursing toddlers. I CRIED yesterday morning on my way to work thinking about our start with that and how I WISH I could have nursed him because I still WOULD HAPPILY be nursing him. I don't know, I think it has a lot to do with me starting nursing school. My eventual goal is to work labor/delivery/postpartum and take the LC exam. I also want to be a LLL leader even though I don't have their required typical bf'ing relationship. One night this week, I had a big long conversation with a friend about all of it. She thinks i should journal it all and use it someday while writing a master's thesis or something.
So we've discussed it a lot and it seems whenever I do that, it's all fresh again...I wanted it SO much.

and does anyone else secretly resent moms who had NO problems and are the type who didn't even really care, yeah, they'd bf cause it's cheaper than formula, but putting their baby on a bottle would be no big deal to them either if it didn't work....

Did anyone else cry every time they HAD to make a bottle of formula and feed that? It took me probably a good 4 months to quit looking at those bottles as some kind of failure on my part.

anybody else resent the fact that NO medical personnel they've been in contact with, from the pp nurses to doctors to LC's NOBODY understands that we're GRIEVING the loss of that relationship? NOTHING and I mean NOTHING prepared me for even the POSSIBILITY this might happen to me. Sure, I'd heard of preemies who couldn't nurse, but MY baby was FULL TERM....surely not HIM?
Does anyone here think it's abnormal to go through a period of grieving a loss? Some shock that this has happened even?

And at a year old, tonight I looked at a post titled you know you're AP when on the babes board and the first thing that came to mind is 'you know you're AP when you read these posts from tandem nursing moms and you want to cry because you know that won't be you in a year....but you WISH it could be...'

And sometimes I want to just go IT"S BEEN A YEAR IT"S TIME TO STOP THIS....but then the reality is I think I still think of it on occasion especially if I have a reason to talk about the weeks immediately following ds's birth because if this all had NOT happened, I WOULD still be bf'ing him. And HAPPILY, not crabbing because my year old child doesn't know it's time to wean.

It's not like I cry daily or anything....in fact the other day is the first time I actually started crying over it in a few months. And that's an improvement, I got through the conversation the other night without a tear.....I used to cry every time I talked about it. Now it's just if I think about it alone.

On a totally different subject speaking of tears...does anyone here think its remotely abnormal that when my son was 3-4 days old, after days of pumping every 3 hours and little/no sleep and the emotional crap behind spending all this time i THought I would spend snuggling my child strapped toa MACHINE to get him his milk....anyone think it's a big PPD sign or something that I started crying when the LC wanted me to stay and talk to someone and I didn't have my baby there to hold.........I just wanted to HOLD my baby.

I still at a year old will rock the baby to sleep and hold him for a long time, like I'm trying to make up for the months I would rock him and hand him off so I could pump....cosleeping for me came out of wanting SOME time where I felt like I was bonding with him.

I personally don't think it's abnormal to WANT to hold your less than week old child or to be upset if you can't. I was THRILLED when I read Dr Sears agrees with me, says there are hormones that cause mom to want to be with the baby and moms should NOT go against this.

anyway I needed this thread this week. I just wanted to know if anyone else has been here, done this and wants to talk about it.

mizmerricat

10-22-2005, 05:21 AM

Oh Melanie! :Hug
I'm just :bawl as I sit here reading your post. So much of it rings true for me too!! The tears, the anger, the grief...all normal for us. I wish I knew when it would get better too.
I live in a very FF heavy area, so most people don't understand what all the fuss is about. And my few BF/AP friends don't understand why it didn't work out for us. They all say they had engorgement/nipple pain, etc at first, they "know how hard it is at first", but they "got through it". Some will even sympathetically say that even though they "stuck it out" they understand why I "quit". It can be so insulting. How exactly is months and months of trying, pumping, meeting with every LC in the area "quitting"??
Even DH didn't understand why it was so important to me, until I put into terms he could understand (sex, of course. lol...lousy metaphor since BF isn't sexual, but it worked) I told him to imagine that we had just gotten married, and for a variety of reasons, we couldn't have intercourse. Imagine everyone telling him it wasn't that important, and we could still "bond" in other ways. We could even use "toys" to simulate intercourse. And even better, when we were ready to get pregnant, they could use a special "pump" to get his sperm out. When put that way, I think he finally got a hint of why bottlefeeding and pumping dont' really fill that void for me. At least he never, ever told me to "get over it" again.
I wish I knew when it would really get better. I find myself daydreaming that maybe when she's a toddler she'll "learn" to latch on. I feel so crazy, because outside of our tiny LLL group, NOBODY here BF's toddlers!! I had certainly planned on it, but to still be trying to initiate it, when the rest of the state is trying to make them stop?? :shrug
Don't even get me started on my "next baby" syndrome...
Well, they SAY time heals all wounds. I wish it would work a little faster one this one, please. :1praying:

peaceful_mama

10-22-2005, 10:14 PM

OMG SO TRUE!! I want another baby YESTERDAY partly because someone took my adorable newborn and swapped him with this crazy, remote-stealing, independent boy :lol and partly just to do it RIGHT this time...knowing what I know now that I didn't know then.

I have this secret little fantasy that when I do have another baby, when ZZ's TWO even, he will ask to nurse because the baby's doing it and learn how. Stupid, I know. Especially considering even people in LLL are trying to start to wean at 2 some of them. I actually let him try one night probably a month or 6 weeks ago because he was playing with daddy's lol and he was fascinated..........he just bit me! :P :(

I know it's kinda dumb but I would be thrilled if that little fantasy came true....

pumpkinseed

10-23-2005, 07:48 PM

Hi Melanie-just wanted to add that I can totally feel your pain-I still cry whenever I talk about it. Its so hard-and also don't have tons of support even from my bf friends-they have made similar comments as you have received. So sad-I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

I think you really said it well about people-even people in the healthcare world, not understanding that there is such a thing as breastfeeding grieving if you are unable to do it...I really have had such a hard time this year, questioning whether I have PPD or if its grieving from not being able to bf...or both??

I thought it was so beautiful what a pp had said about how healing it was for her older child to nurse even for that one time-after she had a new baby...

My heart goes out to you-hopefully there will be healing in all of our futures.

Rivka5

10-25-2005, 02:03 PM

Oh, Melanie, I *so* understand.

A few weeks ago a friend of mine gave birth. She had a hard first few days with nursing, and everyone kept telling her how she just needed to get through the first week and everything would be better. And it was! She's doing great now and her baby was already well over his birth weight at 2 weeks old.

I'm happy for her, but at the same time it brought back so much grief for me. It should've happened that way for us, too, and no matter how hard I tried and stuck it out and worked, we never got any better at it.

DecemberSun

10-26-2005, 10:08 AM

Melanie, I think you SHOULD keep talking about your experience, and write about it, and get out all that frustration you're still feeling. I know it won't take it all away, but it may help you. And you should continue on in your LC education so you can help other moms who have been through this, or prevent it from happening again!
It is SO normal to want to hold your day-old newborn, and want to nurse him, and grieve for the loss of that opportunity. You love your baby, and that is normal, and emotionally overwhelming. You'll make it, and your little one is so lucky to have you... :D

adiaspeer

10-28-2005, 10:55 PM

It’s so good to see this tread on MDC! I’m new to this site and wasn’t sure I would find anything like this here. A few months ago I found a board at babycenter.com on this topic and that was the first time I’d realized others had gone thru what I was going thru. I can’t tell you how many weeks before then I went feeling like I was a freak of nature. Who’s ever heard of someone not being able to breastfeed if they wanted to?!? Not me. My whole life I was surrounded by people breastfeeding and not one of them warned me about how hard it would be or knew that it was possible that I (or anyone) could medically not be able to breastfeed. I think BFing communication and education is very poor, at least in my network of people. I haven’t read all the posts but reading this board has been very emotional and somewhat validating for me. I can feel exactly what everyone’s been going through or has gone through with not being able to breastfeed when you desperately want to.

My story in a nut shell:
*Didn’t notice much change in my breasts during pregnancy
*Had unplanned c-section due to complications after trying to have an un-medicated birth at a birth center.
*figured out in the hospital that my nipples were flat (something that would have been good to know before hand) she had trouble latching on and we both would get frustrated.
*worked w/ the hospitals LC who got her to latch better and showed me different holds.
*Never felt my milk “come in” and never felt engorged but could see some in her mouth etc so I thought all was well
*on day 7 she was hospitalized for 4 days for Polycythemia (increased amount of red blood cells) = totally stressful, but I was able to breastfeed the whole time
* it took her 4 weeks to reach her birth weight. We supplemented when we could with breastmilk in a bottle after feedings but pumping was a whole other struggle…I could never get more than half an ounce from each breast…letdown was hard to get.
*went to LLL and a private LC, all were extremely uplifting and helpful but nothing really increased my supply.
*after 4 weeks with only minimal weight gain we (me, my husband and our Dr.) decided to supplement with formula because I wasn’t producing enough with pumping etc.
*after a month of both breast and bottle she decided she’d rather take a bottle than deal with my non-producing breasts. She wouldn’t even breastfeed for comfort (I tried) I continued to pump for another few weeks and gave her all I could.
*when she turned 3 months I stopped pumping…mostly for my sanity.

My whole breastfeeding experience was so stressful and really disappointing. It's getting easier each day to deal with the loss. It’s so hard when your whole life you think you’ll be breastfeeding your baby and you realize you can’t. It’s kind of disheartening to hear about women who can breastfeed and choose not to out of convenience. So I’m not really sure if she was just not latching on correctly in the beginning or if my milk never fully came in. I’m inclined to think that my milk never came in, but I’m not sure. I guess it could also be chalked up to me being naïve about breastfeeding. I already have a list of about 20 things I’m going to do different with the next one! I’m really curious to know if this will happen again when I have another baby or was this a fluke thing? Anyone ever have this happen then have a great experience with the next?

-Adia :flipped
mama to 4 month old May :innocent

peaceful_mama

10-29-2005, 01:24 AM

I know what you mean! I made it to 6 months. I too had to quit, baby was just getting so much more active and needed ME, and I was NOT going to stick him in a crib so I could pump. There is more to breastfeeding than the milk, and I felt the benefits then outweighed the potential harm by CIO.

just out of curiosity has anyone else noticed a certain sig that mentions exclusive pumping for 9 months followed by established nursing followed by 'we never gave up' and am I being oversensitive by finding the addition of that last line offensive? (I've had a horrible week again with it all, you've seen the posts, I probably AM being a bit oversensitive. I still don't know when it ends.)
Kudos to anyone who can make it ANY length of time, it's DOUBLE the work. IT's hours connected to a pump instead of your baby.

I talked to an LC just a couple weeks ago who was shocked I did 6 months of that.

What I did, and what I hear a lot of people saying they do is not 'giving up' it's recognizing that the child needs the MOTHER just as much or MORE than the milk she can provide. The moms who can provide both in one sitting don't know just how lucky they are. It's the hardest decision I ever made, and one I question to this day along with everything else that went on in the weeks and months following his birth while I struggled trying to help him learn to nurse.

pumpkingirl71

10-30-2005, 06:25 PM

just out of curiosity has anyone else noticed a certain sig that mentions exclusive pumping for 9 months followed by established nursing followed by 'we never gave up' and am I being oversensitive by finding the addition of that last line offensive? (I've had a horrible week again with it all, you've seen the posts, I probably AM being a bit oversensitive. I still don't know when it ends.)
Kudos to anyone who can make it ANY length of time, it's DOUBLE the work. IT's hours connected to a pump instead of your baby.

I have a hard time with that too. I am happy for anyone who sticks it out and is able to breastfeed, but I do often feel like their stories are plastered all over the internet in a way that makes it look like the rest of us failed or didn't try hard enough.

pumpkingirl71

10-30-2005, 06:27 PM

Has anyone seen the latest issue of Mothering? Someone told me my letter to the editor about not being able to breastfeed is in the magazine! I don't have a subscription and the newest issue is not on newstands yet...

UUMom

10-30-2005, 06:29 PM

I nursed my adopted child at my breast with formula. I used a lactaid and SNS--filled with formula. She was four mos at arrival and had not been breastfed, but I know that over the course of the time she breastfed (over a yr) , she did get some breastmilk. Eventually. Once I had a bio child, she was able to get 'real' milk that I hand expressed into her sippy cup and into her food.

It was sad to have to give her formula, but i am happy she got it at the breast. I've never gotten over the fact she didn't get breastmilk as a tiny infant. I have made peace with it, however. Life is what it is.

JaneS

11-01-2005, 07:29 PM

Interesting 3 part series at Mercola.com about healthier alternatives to commercial formula:

http://www.mercola.com/2005/oct/11/healthy_alternative_to_conventional_infant_formula _part_1.htm

whoMe

11-01-2005, 09:22 PM

Hi mamas,

I hope you don't mind me posting this here :innocent, but I've been working on a project specifically with people like you in mind. I'm building a website (http://wetnurse.innavenir.com) with the purpose of making a local connection between people who are in search of breast milk with mamas who have extra and are willing to donate it. As this site is specifically aimed at helping *you* out, I'd love to get some feedback. I'm not quite a mama yet, and so it's entirely possible that I'm just totally missing out on something important.

Oh, and even though it is just in the beginning stages, it is safe, secure and private if you're interested in signing up.

Thank you in advance from a supportive friend! Feel free to leave messages in the forum on the site, email me, or reply here (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=342538) or here (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=364346)
:)

TeaghansMama

11-04-2005, 11:10 AM

Hope you don't mind me crashing in here... ;)
I'm a BF mom to a beatuiful 14 month old but realize how very blessed I am to have had such a great BF experience.
Anyways... I haven't read all the threads so I apologize for that but I have some Enfamil formula checks I won't use and wanted to offer them here. I have (4) checks for $3 off Enfamil Lipil Next Step. Can anyone use them?
PM me... ******** THESE HAVE BEEN TAKEN! :)

Keira

pumpkinseed

11-04-2005, 03:07 PM

Has anyone received counseling about this? I am just curious. I just recently went for my annual exam and completely lost it with my doctor. I tried to stay calm and talk to her and just ended up bawling my eyes out. It started by her asking me when I stopped nursing, and I went on to tell her my story...she wasn't the one who delivered K, so she didn't know about all my post partum issues, surgery, etc...She suggested that I go see a counselor-that I clearly had unresolved issues and that I needed to get help so I am 100% there for K(she just turned 1). I am up for it, but where would I even start? I don't know anything about it? How do you find one that are sensitive to women's issues? I also have to talk to my dh about this-whole other story...

Katiegs

11-05-2005, 06:11 PM

What I did, and what I hear a lot of people saying they do is not 'giving up' it's recognizing that the child needs the MOTHER just as much or MORE than the milk she can provide.

Melanie, what you've written right here is what will help you the most in the long run.

I had planned all along to breastfeed, too. When my oldest was born, we discovered at one week postpartum that he was terribly dehydrated and had lost more than 15% of his birth weight. After lots of struggles, our LC surmised that I have insufficient glandular tissue. I reluctantly gave up on pumping, an SNS, supplements, etc., but continued to feel awful about not nursing for more than a year. I got VERY defensive about it too and went on a one-woman crusade to educate everyone I met about IGT. When our second child was born 4 years later, I gave nursing my all again, but alas, no milk. However, my oldest dd was willing to nurse for comfort for 4 months +. When our third was born 19 months later, again no milk, but she too nursed for comfort for 4 months.

What helped me most along the way have been the words a friend's mom said: "When your children are adults, no one will be able to tell whether they were breastfed or not. What will matter then is their character." Now as the mom of a 7 year old, a 3 year old and a 2 year old, I realize that breastfeeding lasts for such a short time (even if you're an extended nurser!) and while my babies were little is seemed such a HUGE deal. Now that they're older, not being able to nurse has faded in importance. I still agree that breastmilk is best and do everything I can to encourage moms I know to nurse, but truly, in the long run, it is a small part of raising your child. Focus on being the best mom possible to them and know that giving them your love is what is most important in raising a child. :hug

boricuaqueen327

11-05-2005, 11:36 PM

Wow. I never thought I'd see a post like this here. I too am a formula feeding mom. My story is kinda long, but I am happy to see other mamas with similar expereinces as me. Definitely makes me feel less alone. I"ll be back later to post my story but for now I just wanted to say hi and thanks for starting this thread.

Heatherb917

11-06-2005, 07:40 PM

I was so glad to see this post! I am really surprised that there is not a special place for us moms who must formula feed. We are no less natural or AP because we have not been able to breast feed. I have many questions about how to be an AP parent while formula feeding, but don't really know where to go with those questions. This thread seems to be mostly a support for those who cannot breastfeed, which I totally appreciate! But where to go to discuss other issues related to bottle feeding?

Well, if anyone would care to discuss this right here...I would like to know how you go about your nightime rituals. Do you co-sleep? If so, how do you create a smooth transition when the baby wakes? Breastfeeding moms can just yank out the boob to quiet and sooth their night wakers....how do you other formula feeding mommies handle this?

Hugs to you all!

Heather

Rivka5

11-06-2005, 09:20 PM

Well, if anyone would care to discuss this right here...I would like to know how you go about your nightime rituals. Do you co-sleep? If so, how do you create a smooth transition when the baby wakes? Breastfeeding moms can just yank out the boob to quiet and sooth their night wakers....how do you other formula feeding mommies handle this?

Welcome to the tribe, Heather!

We co-slept in the same bed until 4.5 months and are now co-sleeping in the same room. Either way, though, I always got out of bed for night feedings and went to the bedroom rocking chair. That started because Alex had reflux and had to be held upright during feedings and for 30 minutes after. (I also used to pump when I got up with her at night, but I've stopped pumping now.) Now I guess I mostly do it out of habit, although it's also nice to have the arm of the chair to support her for bottle feeding.

I usually hear her immediately when she wakes, so she doesn't really start crying in earnest before I'm able to get her cuddled into the rocker. Our supplies are right next to the rocker: pre-measured bottles of water and a formula dispenser with pre-measured powder. Alex is fine with a room-temperature bottle, or has been over the summer and fall - I might have to experiment with a thermal holder for the winter if the room air gets too cold. So I get a bottle mixed up very quickly, before she has the chance to get really upset. I snuggle her close and feed her the bottle - if it's the middle of the night, her eyes are usually closing before she finishes. I rock her for a little while longer and then slip her back in bed and finish soothing her to sleep there.

I guess the biggest night feeding difference compared to breastfeeding moms is that I don't feed her at every night waking. Sometimes I'll just pat her and soothe her in bed, and give her her pacifier. Sometimes I'll pick her up and rock her and cuddle her close, but not feed her. So breastfeeding moms nurse for hunger *or* comfort at night, and I just feed for hunger and comfort her in other ways.

Sleepymama

11-07-2005, 09:13 AM

Our DS had to eat every 3 hours at least because of his heart condition, and we (still) cosleep. We would have bottles ready and in a cooler in the master bathroom so I wouldn't have to go downstairs, and also a bottle warmer in the bathroom so I could just rock him in the chair next to the bed while waiting for the bottle (or DH would get it ready). Then we'd feed in bed, usually sitting up, change diaper and go back to sleep, just like BF moms would. By about 8-9 months he was only taking 2 bottles at night so this wasn't a big deal, and then just one bottle after one year (when my milk was gone). Not having to leave the bedroom was the big consideration b/c the kitchen is quite far away from our bedroom!

(Then I would have to go pump...he was on half-and half ebm and formula...that was the sucky part b/c the pump would wake him up so I had to go downstairs.)

Another thing that we discovered was keeping a vacuum thermos full of hot water and a bottle of cold water next to the bed. Then put the powder in the bottles and you can just add hot/cold water and mix right there. We did this while travelling too--MUCH faster than warming a bottle and you don't have to worry about refrigeration. DS was very particular about the temperature of his bottles so this worked out well for us.

Laurel

11-07-2005, 09:51 AM

Well, my little guy certainly had the nightwaking habits of a breastfed baby, even though he was bottlefed. Between 5 and 10 months old, he was up at least 4-5 times a night. After that it went down to 1-2 times a night, and now at 3, he still wakes up once a night and comes into bed with us.

When he was a baby, I would hold him or rock him and give him a bottle right before bed (and during most nightwakings too). I have to admit we relied a lot on a pacifier to provide him that comfort sucking. He had a pacifier until almost age 3. I remember that as a baby he often was still awake after drinking his bottle, and we spent a lot of time walking the floor with him, bouncing and rocking him in our arms to get him to sleep. As for nightwaking, when he was an older baby we used a sidecar crib arrangement. He needed just a little bit more space in order to stay asleep. I got so that I could sense he was waking even before he fully woke, and I would pop the binky back in his mouth while he was still half-asleep. I think this is what helped us make that transition from frequent nightwaking to occasional nightwaking.

After about age one, we stopped rocking him to sleep and started laying down on the bed next to him while he fell asleep. If he was having a hard time settling down, we would get up and rock for awhile. He always had a bottle in arms right before bed and always went to bed with a pacifier. When he was around two, we replaced the bottle of milk with a sippy cup of water. The cup of water is still an important comfort object for him, even though he doesn't drink it.

We co-slept full-time until he was 20 months old, and now we co-sleep part time. He goes down in his own bed but usually climbs in with us at some point during the night. I honestly believe that since we were not able to continue nursing past about 4 months, it has been the co-sleeping that has provided a good part of the foundation of the close attachment he has with us--especially after he was old enough that he didn't have a bottle in arms anymore. A few weeks ago we were having a conversation where I was trying to explain to him that whenever he was scared or anxious, he could pray and ask God to help him feel peaceful. As a hypothetical example, I asked him what he could do if he woke up in the middle of the night and was scared. Of course his answer was, "You can go get in bed with your mom and dad." So I pressed him a little bit. I asked him if there was anything else he could do to not be scared. He replied, "Well, you can hide under your covers, and then you can run and go get in bed with your mommy and daddy." Still wanting to make my point, I said, "How about if you said a little prayer and asked God to help you not be scared?" To which he answered, "Yeah! You could say a little prayer! And then you could hurry and go bet in bed with your mommy and daddy!" It was so sweet! That little conversation just melted my heart, because I realized just exactly how much he knows where he can turn for comfort and security. Not that God isn't important...but it is pretty great for me to realize that my son knows we will be there for him at any time of the day or night--that's what attachment is all about! Why would I want to mess with this by forcing him out of my bed?

Just as a side note to this, I wanted to say that seeing my son grow up and be *really* attached has been the best balm for the loss of the breastfeeding experience. When he was a baby and all of this was transpiring, I worried so much about it. But I have been lucky to have a "touchy-feely" child who thrives on physical contact. I absolutely know that he could not possibly be more attached if he were still nursing! You *can* have a warm, connected, and thoroughly rewarding relationship with a child even if you must bottle feed.

cchrissyy

11-10-2005, 12:05 PM

Adia
I don't know what the future holds for you, but I bf'd my first kid 18 months and he weaned when he was good and ready- it was my second baby who brings me to this thread! so things can change.

Granted, my reasons and yours seem pretty diferent. your may be biologically set. Mine were very situational (at 7 months old I got sick and breastfeeding fell apart)

Processing through this, I wholeheartedly agree that feeding is only one shred of parenting and it lasts only a short time. Keeping it in perspective makes me feel alright. It's hard to make a bottle today. but when she's 5, or 15, or 50, or when we're all up in heaven, it won't matter one bit.

**guest**

11-10-2005, 07:21 PM

Wow, I sure wish I had access to this thread long ago. My ds is almost 3 and I STILL feel bad that I could not bf.

Ds was born at 36 weeks. I had been in labor for 18 hours. I developed a fever and the idiot docs pretty much forced me to have an emergency
c-section. I specifically had it written EVERYWHERE that I wanted to bf EXCLUSIVELY. Well, right after giving birth, while I was in recovery, a nurse gave ds a bottle of glucose. grrr.

I had a SEVERE case of the shakes and could not really hold ds until HOURS after he was born. When I finally tried to bf, ds would not latch on. He was an extremely sleepy pre term! Still, I tried and tried. I had inverted nipples which did not help at all. I truly don't think I got enough support trying to get ds to bf. My breasts are huge and it was just so difficult to try to bf without smothering ds. He would take one tiny try at suckling and would fall asleep. I pumped for 6 weeks and gave him that but I still felt guilty. After 6 weeks, my supply dried up. I was so disappointed. I felt like a failure.

Having said all that, ds and I have an amazing bond. He's my little guy and we love each other dearly. As a matter of fact, he is not happy about me not being right next to him while he sleeps tonight. He loves to hold his mama while we sleep. Oh man, he's my cozy boy. :love :throb :heartbeat

Hugs to all of you mama's!
Liz
Ps. I'm not subbing to this cuz I can't keep up with all my threads as it is!

timneh_mom

11-10-2005, 08:56 PM

I hope it is ok for me to post here. First, :hug :love to everyone here who has tried to nurse and just couldn't. Nursing is so important to me, that it breaks my heart to read your stories and especially about the grief. Someone mentioned that nobody understands the grief at not being able to do it, I don't either because I haven't been there, but I can appreciate it. I would have grieved too, if something had happened to us.

The main reason I am posting is because I am working on becoming a LLL leader, and hopefully someday, a lactation consultant. Is there anything that an LC could have said or done differently that would have helped you get through this better? I want to make it a point to meet women where they are at, understanding that there will be things that happen and a mom isn't always going to be able to nurse. Do you have suggestions for me to keep in mind? Thanks so much...

SleepyMamaBear

11-11-2005, 05:14 PM

The main reason I am posting is because I am working on becoming a LLL leader, and hopefully someday, a lactation consultant. Is there anything that an LC could have said or done differently that would have helped you get through this better? I want to make it a point to meet women where they are at, understanding that there will be things that happen and a mom isn't always going to be able to nurse. Do you have suggestions for me to keep in mind? Thanks so much...

I was unable to succesfully nurse my daughter due to a reduction i had 5 years ago. i would suggest looking into additional support for moms with reductions, speciffically SNS and Lact-Aid supplimenters. had any of the LCs i saw suggested one to me i would have jumped all over it happily! but no one even let us know they existed. also no one suggested ANY galactogues, at all.
also. compassion. its HARD to be unable to sustain your childs life with your body as nature has intended, and when we arent able to do it, or able to do it fully its heartbeaking and one of the hardest things i have had to face in my life. i still greive.
myabe have part of your future LC practice involve greif counseling referalls.
just some ideas.

UUMom

11-11-2005, 05:22 PM

I was unable to succesfully nurse my daughter due to a reduction i had 5 years ago. i would suggest looking into additional support for moms with reductions, speciffically SNS and Lact-Aid supplimenters. had any of the LCs i saw suggested one to me i would have jumped all over it happily! but no one even let us know they existed. also no one suggested ANY galactogues, at all.
also. compassion. its HARD to be unable to sustain your childs life with your body as nature has intended, and when we arent able to do it, or able to do it fully its heartbeaking and one of the hardest things i have had to face in my life. i still greive.
myabe have part of your future LC practice involve greif counseling referalls.
just some ideas.

Crap, that's terrible! Why are some LCs dense? My oldest dd is now 13 and was adopted. I breastfed her with the Lact-Aid and SNS when she arrived in '92 (at nearly 4 mos old) . I got help from both my LLL leader and my LC. 13 years ago! I cannot beleive that 5 yrs ago any LC ,issed the boat on something so basic. I'm so sorry you did not get the help you needed.

I was able to nurse my dd for over a year with the SNS before she pushed it all away.

ColwynsMommy

11-12-2005, 08:04 PM

I was unable to nurse either of my boys due to low (pretty much nonexistent) supply. With my first, I was so overwhelmed with the pumping and SNS that I gave up after 3 weeks. The LCs I saw were no help and didn't mention anything about fenugreek or anything. They did measure Colwyn before and after a 20 minute nursing session, and he had only gotten 1/4 of an ounce, at 3 weeks post partum.

With my second, I read everything I could get my hands on and was determined that I would try harder and make it work no matter what. Well, after two months of pumping, using a SNS and then a LA, taking fenugreek, eating oatmeal, etc.. I still wasn't making enough milk (in a cruel twist, when we had Lachlann weighed before and after a feed, it was 1/4 of an ounce, too). It was so frustrating to me because Colwyn loved nursing, and I didn't try hard enough.. but Lachlann hated nursing if he wasn't getting anything, and I was much more willing to try everything. I finally gave in to bottle feeding for nutrition and nursing for comfort, but after 2 or 3 weeks of that arrangement, Lachlann started refusing to nurse.

The LCs were more helpful the second time around, but still didn't give me any new info because I had done so much research on my own. The help they did give me this time was more along the lines of reassuring me that I was doing everything I could, and that I was a great mom. Lachlann is a very picky eater.. it takes him so long to get him to latch on even to the bottle, and the LCs always told me how impressed they were with how patient I am with him. That support, telling me that I was doing a great job regardless of how much I was actually producing, was so nice. The other really helpful thing one LC said was that it most likely wasn't going to work out and to just let go. I know that seems like a bad thing for a LC to tell a mom, but I was so worn out and really needed to hear from a professional that it wasn't going to happen and that it was okay. I still would have loved if someone could have told me why I can't produce enough milk--I don't have apparent insufficient glandular tissue, but I'm overweight so I don't know if that can mask the problem.

The one thing that I didn't do was try Reglan or domperidone. I was nervous about the domperidone (safety wise) and nervous about the depression side-effects. Of course, the horrible mourning and guilt I felt for giving up made me feel stupid for worrying about depression.. not nursing made me feel depressed. I had said, while working my butt off to increase supply, that if it didn't work out I wouldn't try with my next. But after seeing how upset I actually was about breastfeeding not working out, I think I will try just as hard next time.. and I'll probably try Reglan, too.

I think part of what made the whole pumping, LA routine stressful is that my kids are closely spaced. It was so hard for me to devote tons of energy to breastfeeding because I felt guilty for neglecting Colwyn. Barring any surprises, we won't start TTC until Lachlann is at least three, so maybe that will be easier. We've been talking about adoption, too, and part of me likes the idea of having a child without the pressure to breastfeed, since it's pretty much guaranteed that I wouldn't be able to induce lactation without having a pregnancy to give me a boost. :)

Of course, one of the benefits of bottlefeeding is that others can feed the baby.. but Lachlann has decided that I'm the only one who can give him a bottle--which drives me crazy. They say to be careful of what you wish for.. I wanted to be the only one who could feed my baby, but not like this. It's hard not resenting him for that.. if he loves me so much that only I can bottlefeed him, why can't he love to nurse?

It's so nice to hear that there are other women who have had similar problems. I love this message board, but the comments about formula feeding really hurt and make me want to stay away. Of course, just seeing moms nurse hurts, whether they're supportive of me or not. I had a friend over the other day who nursed her 2 year old during the playdate, and I wanted to cry.. she's been so supportive of me and everything, but I wish so much that it could've been me nursing my children, too.

Anyway.. thanks so much for this thread.. it's made me realize that it's normal to still be grieving for the loss of the nursing relationship.

SleepyMamaBear

11-13-2005, 01:52 AM

no, my reduction was 6 years ago(OMG! i cant beleive its been that long! i lost track!) 11-23-99 i had my daughter 7-15-04, so it was about 4.5 years after i had my BR.
NO ONE ever brought up an at breast supplimenter. i didnt find out about them until a few months ago, and now she just thinks mommys boobies are decorations.
she did nurse for comfort for 2 months. but then stopped cause nothing was comming out and i guess she figured why bother.
we are planning on trying to ttc #2 in a few months, so she will be at least two when our second is born. she already LOVES babies, but i think could end up being a little jealous of a new baby especially if mommy is giving that new baby lots of snuggle time, one of our favorite times of the day (few and far between though!)
i think we are going to wing it.
am i the only breast reduction mama on this thread?

pumpkinseed

11-13-2005, 10:11 AM

It's so nice to hear that there are other women who have had similar problems. I love this message board, but the comments about formula feeding really hurt and make me want to stay away.

I think there are just a lot of ignorant people out there that don't understand that all women who want to breastfeed can't...I agree-it is so hard to hear/read comments about formula feeding. So many people say "well if you CHOOSE to formula feed..." and not realize that for so many of us it wasn't a choice, but a necessity. So please don't stay away, this is such a great board-with so many supportive women.

mamastar

11-13-2005, 10:41 AM

My close friend couldn't breastfeed either and was brokenhearted. But, she bought a sling and it was the answer. Breastfeeding isn't just about the milk. It's also about bonding and love. Babies are strong. THey'll survive on anything. But nothing is more powerful than a mother's love!

JaneS

11-13-2005, 07:11 PM

Mothering article from last year:

"The good news about lactation after breast surgery: if you think having an augmentation or a reduction means you can't nurse, think again."
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0838/is_127/ai_n6364737

Rivka5

11-14-2005, 09:24 AM

The main reason I am posting is because I am working on becoming a LLL leader, and hopefully someday, a lactation consultant. Is there anything that an LC could have said or done differently that would have helped you get through this better?

I needed my LCs to tell me that I was a good mother anyway, and they did. That's what I needed most of all.

I made the decision that I would supplement with formula when the LC told me to, and not before. It might be helpful to let women who are really struggling know that you will tell them if you ever think they should try formula. They'll probably be getting the suggestion from so many other people, and also the suggestion that it's NEVER okay, and between those it can be hard to know what to do.

mommabunny

11-15-2005, 12:32 AM

Hi all! I'm new here at MDC and I'm glad I found this thread. I didn't read all 12 pages in this thread, but I read some and I'm glad to know that there are people like me who wanted to nurse but it didn't go as planned.

We have 2 dd. One is 7 the other just turned 4. When dd#1 was born I nursed her for about three months. I also supplemented b/c she was not enthusiatic about nursing. I think that she was given a bottle after she was born at the hospital. I told the staff that I was nursing, but I did not give specific instrutions about no bottles/pacifiers. She was slightly jaundiced as well, so she was a lazy eater. My mom stayed with us for a couple of weeks and she WAS NOT supportive at all. She bottle fed all of us. (When my girls have their own children, I really want them to bf. I've learned from my mom's mistakes--I'll be supportive whatever they decide.)

I have dd#2 a couple of years later. I was better informed and I knew that I wanted to bf for 2 years if possible. Again, I delivered at the hospital--this time they were well informed not to give dd any bottles at all. They didn't. But I don't know where to start. We had dd in the room with us for about 2 hours. I was nursing and a nurse (not my labor nurse) came in and insisted that she had to take dd. We were still trying to nurse and told her that we were doing what doc wanted us to do. She still insisted on taking dd from us for "testing" (and who knows what else!). I nursed in the hospital without any problems. The day we went home, the doc and the nurses were calling us nursing pro's! That's where it all stopped.

My mom was present again along with her new husband. Again not supportive and I had to nurse in my bedroom b/c I did not want to nurse in front of him. (I have breast issues, I'm very sensitive about them) She was jaundiced more so than her sister and she just became sooooo lathargic! I was doing everything supplementing with a syringe, keeping a feeding journal, stipping her bare even applying ice cubes to wake her up. But back to the jaundice. She went to the pediatricain for 3 weeks everyday and had her heal pricked to check her levels. To this day, I don't know why I never asked for her to just to sit under the bili lights. If this helps anyone in a similar situation to what I was in, ask for your baby to sit under the lights. Why in the world they would reccomend her having her poor heals multilated like that is beyond me. I was suffering from PPD for the first time, so it was all I could do to take care of the girls. I was exsisting on little sleep at that point, I couldn't even stand up for our rights.

I do think I have issues with my milk supply. I did take some fenugreek at the reccomendation of the pediatrician. Boy Howdy did my milk come in! But it gave me really bad diharrea (sp). Well, it did the same thing to dd. And I didn't want her having that all the time so I stopped taking it. An oncall pediatrican saw dd during the whole jaundice fiasco and I was crying in the exam room about the nursing and he told me that "sometimes nursing just doesn't work out" WHAT!?! He told me that I need to start bottle feeding exclusively. I should point out that DD went from 7.2 lbs to 5 lbs in 2 weeks.

This all probably seems incoherent as it is 1 in the morning where I'm at.
I did try everything I could at that time. I even called the leader from the local LLL, however she called me back almost 2 weeks after I called her. Not her fault, she was on vacation. I did visits with the LC as well, but she wasn't there at 3 in the morning when we couldn't get the syringe to work (several times, I might add).

I'm still grieving this. I just felt like I was so broken. This is the way God created us--why wasn't I able to nurse Dd when I so deperately wanted to? I don't know what lesson God wants me to learn from this. I do have a healthy young daughter, I feel guilty sometimes for the way I feel. I feel like I have no right to feel this way when there are women who would give anything just to hold an unborn/stillborn child.

Dh got the big V 2 years ago. I do feel like that was the right decision at the time, but now I don't know. I just want to have a chance to do everything over again. I've lost so much faith in the medical community. I trusted my docs, I took the classes that they reccomended and both times my birth/nursing experiences with both dd's was not the way that I believe God intended.

It's a shame that in 7 years after having 2 babies that I'm learning that things maybe could have been different. Thanks for listening.

peaceful_mama

11-15-2005, 07:56 AM

Wow, I sure wish I had access to this thread long ago. My ds is almost 3 and I STILL feel bad that I could not bf.

I wonder if this will be me, considering I want to cry whenever I start reading things like this and DS is 13 months old.
I feel guilty because of his problems with milk and milk formula too....he did so well with bm. And I feel guilty too because I was kinda relieved at 6 months having to go on meds incompatible with the pumping....gave me an excuse? I was so overwhelmed with it all anyway, I wasn't one of these people who could pump gallons, I couldn't keep up and I kept trying and trying and just stressing over it. (I did keep up with a tiny freezer stash even until I got stupid food poisoning and was horribly sick when DS was 10 weeks. It never bounced back the same after that. I also didn't do enough pumping in the beginning, and I really think that's why things were so hard later.)

the possibility of TTC #2 has been mentioned and I feel bad now not because I'm afraid I won't be able to do it with #2, but because I keep hearing people so happy to tandem nurse and I won't have that. Is that crazy or what?
I'm confident my switch to a midwife will prevent any unnecessary inducing, and I no longer have flat nipples due to all my time spent with a pump...so that takes care of my issues in my mind....but sad about not being able to ever tandem with the first one. :P (seriously even if he was 2-3 I'd let him if he'd do it....that's how bad I feel he didn't get it as a baby....)

There's lots of guilt there over how I felt too...the frustration and what effect that might have had on ZZ, even though he's fine and appears healthy, happpy, attached.

joandsarah77

12-07-2005, 05:25 PM

Hi can I join too? Another failed breast feeder here due to near nonexistent suply. I havn't read the entire thread, just stories here and there. It makes me want to cry. I always asumed I would breast feed. Really didn't think it would be that hard...

Our dd Sarah 4 was born by c-section as I was failing to progress 2cm after 12 hours, so I chose a section. (I had that option because I had chosen a section for our first angel baby, due to her condition, which is a whole other harowing story :( )
I had tried to impress on the Dr that the morphine and me didn't agree. They were sure it was the anathetic. Well it was both. So to please me they said I got a lower dose and would be fine. DD was born a lusty and healthy 8lb 12oz! I could hardly believe I had had a healthy live baby. :bawl (I need a happy tears smilie here) nobody knows unless you have experienced it of how overwelming the feeling is of having a live healthy baby after you have lost one before. So then the paralizing stuff started creeping up my throut so I found it hard to breath and I was on oxygen and wraped in foil due to a low temp so I couldn't hold her. The low morphine dose then did it's job on me like before and I went on a trip to lala land. Not as bad as the first time, but bad enough that I didn't even know they were trying to put my dd to my breast to feed. Aparantly I pushed them all away. :bawl I don't know if she was given a bottle at that point. She was a big hungry baby who just got hungrier. She has always been about 90% on the charts. But she would not latch properly. She would just pull of and reatach her own way, and acording to the lactaion consultent 'dummy suck' on me. I went home pumping, (hired an electric pump) feeding and supping. I made enough pumping over the day to feed her an evening bottle of ebm for 4 weeks, it then droped stedily. I switched to full formula at 6 weeks. Late that last night I held and comfort feed her what little there was while I :bawl my eyes out while dh went to the kitchen to fix a bottle. They all said it could be due to my emotional state. :( What with loosing our first and how stressed I was while pregnant.

3 years later I had ds Daniel by elective c-section. It seems morphine is the only pain killer they give. I had a dramitcly lowerd dose. I was much more aware this time but in lots more pain. Towards the end of the pregnancy I was hospilzed with unexplained pain. They couldn't do much for it apart from a shot of pethidine now and then in my but. I hardly sleped or ate due to the pain, I sat in the shower most of the time. They did the section at 37 weeks. He was a smaller then they thought. 5lb 4 oz. They said the lack of sleep and eatting wouldn't have been the cause....I don't know I think it did. At first it seemed like he was latching well. he opend his mouth wide. But I was soon bleeding once again. He was chomping and hardly getting anything of the small amount I was producing. The lactation consultent wasn't much help. She said I had good milk making breast. Yer right as if the shape has anything to do with it! I knew I didn't. I was pumping the same amount as I had with my dd. This time I knew more about boosting suply and went on Fenugreek and Motilium. But the Fenugreek gave me gastric troubles like some other mums here. The Motilium is a drug to help production. I was told it could work miracles. It didn't.
We had to find a super soft teat (bottle nipple) to feed him. The hospital ones were not soft enough. Luckly I had some cheap ones from dd and they were soft enough. I was anoyed that a hospital can't provide a suitable teat for a baby who can't suck properly. There answer was to be tube feeding. using the hospital bottles each feed took about an hour of us holding his checks in. But he started loosing weight and became lethargic and jundiced. He was not a hungry baby, (so totaly opposit of dd) we often had to wake him after 4 hours and keep him awake to take milk. I remember sitting and crying with him as well, putting ice cubes on his feet and flicking
them to keep him awake to no advail.
We had to go back for weigh in each day. Then we had to be readmited for his jundice and he was put under a mobile light crib. His weight went down to 4lb 9oz. The lactation consoltent said 'whatever you feel comfortable with' ah helo! he's 4lb 9oz! I knew at that weight I couldn't be experimenting with trying to get him to feed, he could die of starvation. So I started waking him more often and using formula mostly full time for him. I pumped for 4 weeks before giving up this time. The Motilium helped but the Dr did not like to prescribe any more then two lots. Also who knows what the chemicle might do down the track, cause cancer, infertility to my ds?? If the Dr didn't like me taking more of it what might it do to my baby...So I thought formula might be safer.
Obvously he was ment to be a big baby like my dd was. As soon as he started the formula and more frequent feeds he grew and gained weight so fast my head spun. he basicly jumped up from below the charts to about 75%
It always makes me smile when someone says what a big boy my 14 month ds is, I love to tell them he started out at 5lb 4oz.

We have no milk bank out here, I did ask. Only in larger city hospitals appantly. It's such a shame as I know a number of woman that had so much they pumped and threw it down the sink!

aussiemum

12-14-2005, 07:13 AM

I, too, am an MDC mama who was unable to breastfeed both of my children, & I gave them exclusive formula in a bottle by the age of 6 months. Usually I post in the low milk supply tribe, but I wanted to sign on to this thread too.... I didn't know there were so many mamas over here as well!

Did you all know that some members are currently tryng to get a specific sub-forum opened within breastfeeding to deal with our specific issues? Whilst the focus is currently on low-supply mamas (I suppose because that's the thread where the idea sprang from), I envision that we will be able to support all mamas who are unable to breastfeed for whatever reason.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=377219

Please do feel free to join in with support for the idea if you think it's a good one. We deserve more support than just two threads on these boards, imo!

LeosMama

12-14-2005, 10:05 AM

I've read so many stories here on MDC that make me want to scream at lactation consultants.
Babies with weak, ineffective, and disorganized sucks are more common than LC's realize and they just pat the mom on the head and say "he's latching fine" or some other platitude that's not helpful. There is a whole cadre of professionals that can FIX THESE PROBLEMS!
They are called speech language pathologists and can train a baby to suck properly and effectively.

I had two LC's comment to me about how a baby can suck badly on a bottle and do fine, as you just refill it if he wastes it or you just keep holding it until he gets it all down. But it took WEEKS for one of them to say, "Oh your son doesn't suck properly, let's go see a speech language pathologist." You'd think when they made the connection of sucking badly on bottle and breast and it not being how I was latching him that they would have sent me right away! I was in SO much pain and he wasn't moving milk. They all thought it was me being low supply or something (I could pump a lot once I got my milk back!).

LC's are wonderful, but they know very little about the mechanics of suckling and moving milk, they know how to help you make milk and get the baby latched.

A lot of mamas lose their milk and have continuing supply issues b/c the baby doesn't suck effectively.

Please, anyone who reads this post, please skip the ineffective LC and make an appt with a speech language pathologist specializing in feeding disorders to make sure your baby is doing his side of things properly.

timneh_mom

12-14-2005, 11:36 AM

Teakafrog

12-22-2005, 10:01 PM

I tried to bf my son, it was torture. He would scream every time I lifted my shirt. Never could get him to latch on properly. Tried pumping, dried up after 6b wks. Awful experience. Now we have adopted DD, and no I did NOT try to induce lactation. We didn't know we were getting her until she was here, so no pre-planning for pumping, etc. I do miss the idea of it, I want so badly to have to experience of BFing, but... probably won't happen unless I get pg again, which would be a miracle in itself. I know if we adopt again I won't. Sigh. Glad there are some others I can commiserate with. Like has been said here, most people don't understand. Either they do bf, or don't want to.

peaceful_mama

01-02-2006, 03:39 AM

Europeanmom

01-02-2006, 07:59 AM

Thank God, I found you! :shy

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I really needed this.
My introduction:
I have breastfed my first three children (exlusively the first six months). I've never had any problems with it, and I thought that bottlefeeding mothers were either ignorant or irresponsible :blush
Then I had #4 and got the shock of my life, when everything failed. My baby is now 5 weeks, I am still pumping and still trying to get him to accept my breast, but it it not going too well :(

Rivka5

01-02-2006, 09:17 AM

OK officially TTC! :) and whenever I think about it, I keep thinking happily that all DS's problems were because of my induction, because of the drugs (induction drugs), because of bad advice I followed, because they stuck a bottle in his mouth at 7 hours old....and I think there's no WAY I'll have a problem with the next one. [...]

But then I think once in awhile--what if it's ME? What if I do everything 'right' and it STILL goes wrong? :( What if *I* just can't do this? and it's so important to me just thinking of the possibility makes me want to cry....I'm STILL mad about DS. :P He's almost FIFTEEN MONTHS OLD.

:hug

Oh, gosh, do I ever relate to this. I'm not TTC, but at times I've wondered if it would be wrong of me to have a second baby whom I might not be able to nurse either. As in, would it be fair to the baby, to conceive knowing that he or she might not get breastfed? But honestly, I only think that way when I'm depressed and guilty.

If you do happen to be unable to breastfeed your second child, though, at least you'll know that you did absolutely everything you could to facilitate breastfeeding. I think one of the hardest things is going over every minute of the breastfeeding relationship in your mind, again and again, wondering how things might have turned out differently if you'd just done this or that. Maybe you would be more at peace if you didn't have any regrets about things you weren't able to prevent.

Re-reading this, it sounds like I'm blaming you for not being able to breastfeed your son, and that's the last thing that I intend. It's so clear how hard you tried. I hope and trust that things will go better for you with your next child.

SleepyMamaBear

01-02-2006, 02:00 PM

Are there any other moms here that had a reduction. my intro is quite a few pages back, but my story is:
had a reduction 6 years ago. after being told i would never bringa child full term.
and miracle of all miracles, Addy was born 4.5 years after that.
wanted to BF pumped like a mad woman. ate oatmeal, took fennugreek drank mothers milk tea. the works, only no Dom.
i was induced and it ended in an urgent c-sec. thats what i get for going to a "med"wife tho i suppose. and i feel like things might have gone better in every aspect had i not been induced and let things run their course. and not had a c-sec.
i still greive the loss of what could have been a beautiful breastfeeding relationship. though we had a great "nursing" relationship.
i am hoping with #2 and on we will be able to have a better breastfeeding relationship with an SNS.
we are kind of trying, kind of not. pretty much letting the wond take us where it will.
i am two weeks late. but HPTs all say negative.
i worry that if i do get pregnant again i will not be able to have that breastfeeding relationship with child #2 and will be thrown headfirst into depression. then what good could i be to a toddler and a babe?
i am rambling. trying not to make this too long, need to "french" bath to run to the dollar store to browse with lil sis and her DD.
anyways, i guess my long little re-intro was a plea for other breast reduction mommies to pop out of the woodwork.

DecemberSun

01-03-2006, 11:30 AM

Oh, mamas, please, please, PLEASE don't beat yourselves up over this! And don't think for a second that you shouldn't have any more babies because they might not be breastfed. Yes breastmilk is important, but we are lucky enough to live in a society where synthetic formula is a suitable substitue. The most important thing is that these babies will be :love LOVED :love, and sung to, and hugged, and rocked, and raised up right with lots of respect and wonderful AP values! There is an amazing bond when you nurse your baby, one that can't compare to anything else in the world, and it is wonderful that you all are trying (or at least wanting and hoping) to nurse your next children... But they will all be very lucky to have mothers like you who care about them so much, even if they aren't breastfed!!! :)

I raised my bottlefed foster daughter right alongside my breastfed son (they're 2 months apart), and that doesn't stop me from raising them both with lots of unconditional love, cuddles, hugs, kisses, tickles, and everything else that's important for creating the foundation they need to be good people. Sure, I felt kind of guilty mixing up bottles of formula for my foster DD, but she was hungry and she needed to eat, and she didn't really care where the food came from :lol as long as her belly was full. Lot's of kids in the world today are fed formula and they turn out great- the important thing is that you care enough about them to give breatfeeding a chance! And if it doesn't work out that doesn't make you a bad mother! ;)

My suggestion is to tell everyone involved in the birth and care of your baby that breastfeeding is very important to you. Tell your doctor, nurses, midwife, doulas, partner, labor coaches, etc. Tell anyone you can think of! And if someone doesn't support you in your decision to breastfeed you can ask them politely to keep their opinions to themselves about the matter. You need all the support you can get! If everyone knows how important nursing is to you, they will be more willing to help you if you have an emergency C-section, medications, complications, etc. Don't give up! And come here when you need help or support if it doesn't work out, so you can focus all your energy on bonding with your baby! :D

Mrs_Hos

01-04-2006, 04:45 PM

I had a very hard time in the beginning...a month of pumping with a double breasted industrial pump and getting only 1 oz...and formula feeding my newborn. This on top of 2 sisters who nursed their 9 children into toddlerhood. (and a mom in the 50s with my sisters and 70s with me nursing her kids...definitely not mainstream at the time!).
So..I feel your pain. I was lucky. I got to LLL in time to get the much needed help and they helped me tremendously! I nursed Carly until she was 3..and I am still 'dry nursing' since she says there is no milk...
Anyways, I do feel bad that you mamas didn't get to have the breastfeeding experience you wanted for one reason or another. Just know that next time there are many resources for you--and they may help you. I hope you are able to nurse in the future.
I wanted to mention too that there is a big difference between mamas who want to nurse, but who didn't have the support, or the resourses, or maybe had medical issues that hindered the nursing process VS the mamas that could nurse a orphanage of children, but who chose not to because they wanted to put the baby in a corner and prop the bottle so as to not be bothered with their baby. I don't think there are any mamas in that 2nd category on this board.
I applaud you mamas who tried and who for some reason or another couldnt get it going--and then can admit it...and I really wish I could've helped in some way. It has been such a joy to be able to get over the hump and nurse my dd. I hope you all try with the next baby...and look to us and other resources (like LLL) to help you!
:)
Bobbi

Amalia65

01-04-2006, 07:39 PM

Tiffany,

I read your story and wanted to share mine with you, so you know you are not alone!

I had a reduction in 1987. I, at the time, wasn't planning to have children "ever", and didn't look into what this could mean in terms of breastfeeding in the future.

Jump to 18 years later, and here at 40, I had my son last July. I was SURE I'd breastfeed, (still didn't know there were issues with a breast reduction)...I was induced and delived Owen vaginally. On my birthplan, I requested to have a LC come see me.

As soon as Owen was born, the L&D nurse, who was sweet and adorable, and I think 20 years old, "taught" me to breastfeed. I tried to introduce my nipple to Owen for the hour they kept me there, and then off we went to post partum, where I continued to try. The nurses there said I was doing it wrong, and showed me a new way. I tried and felt overall pretty positive that Owen and I were going to figure this all out. No LC visit to this point.

The next morning, we are informed that we will be discharged in a few hours, which would mean about 3 pm. No kidding, at 2:55, the transport guy walks in to take me downstairs, when the LC runs in and says to him, wait outside. She, this monster of a lactation consultant, skips right over any nicities, like "Hello....I'm sorry I didn't come sooner...like when he was born..." and the first thing she says to me, (although I will acknowledge that due to the anger/rage that I felt through our 3 minute meeting, I have forgotten the exact conversation...she says, "You know that women that have a reductive surgery have a more difficult time breastfeeding..in fact, only 20% can BF"...(Remember, at this point, I am still super optomistic, because IGNORANCE IS BLISS"...and then she goes on and on as to how I will have to take the baby into the peds office every day to weigh him because he probably won't get the amout of milk necessary to weight gain...etc...

I asked her to leave. I was on the verge of tears...she didn't say one positive thing to me about BF...all negative, (Not that she thought BF was bad...just that I would encouter all these problems, etc...). You know what really bites? She was right...but I was so mad at her for her idiotic approach, that I was unable to HEAR the message...and if I had heard the message, maybe I would have had a different ending.

So I went home. And I BF like a champ...or so I thought. A couple of days later, my milk came in and my breasts were enormous. I was ELATED!

The following week, 7 days post birth, we go in for a baby check. I was CONVINCED that Owen had gained a TON of weight...for he was always at my breast...

He lost 14 oz.

I was crushed. The ped was concerned, although not terribly, and sent me home with a can of formula.

I was beyond devistated. He also watched me nurse and said it all looked good, so keep at it..and feed Owen a couple of ounces after BF in the evenings only. So as far as my ped goes, he was very supportive...and gave me homeopathic meds, told me to take fennegreek and Mother's Milk tea...which I did religiously. I also rented a baby scale and weighed Owen after breastfeeding to see how much he was eating.

After a week, I decide to go see a lactation consultant. The first thing she tells me is that I am nursing all wrong. Her exact words? "Why are you doing it like that?" BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE FREAKING NURSES AT THE HOSPITAL TAUGHT ME TO AND BECAUSE THE DIPSH*T OF THE LC AT THE HOSPITAL DIDN'T COME EARLY ENOUGHT TO TEACH ME PROPERLY.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I wanted to scream...

So, $150 later, I am now told to rent a hospital grade pump, and pump every 3 hours...so 8 times a day. She also tells me about DOM, I can't remember the exact name of the drug, which I immediately purchase from New Zealand over the internet. I was desperate.

I pump. I weigh. I cry. I pray. I massage my breasts. I take pills...drink tea...I curse.

This goes on for 6 weeks. I pumped a total of 2.5 ounces in a 24 hour period. One time I got 3. I was thrilled.

At 8 weeks, my son gets Whooping Cough and we are admitted to Children's Hospital for 2 weeks. I pumped around the clock...I saw yet another LC there...I so wanted this to work.

The day before Owen is released, I quit. I can't tell you how difficult and painful a decision it was. Here I am now, 3 months later, with tears running down my face, because I won't have another chance...I don't get to do a "do-over".

I spent $500 in trying to get BF to work...between the drugs, LCs, pump rentals...and I didn't have any success.

If I could do it over, I would have done this. Hired the LC before giving birth and made sure she was there at birth. For me, I believe my "challenge" was proper latch. I certainly had milk, but maybe due to the fact that we were doing it wrong for 2 weeks, my milk production went down and never came back up. I know that sometimes women who get reductions have "issues" with the milk travelling, not necessarily with production.

I just didn't know. I figured we'd learn and I would BF for years. That was my hope.

On a side note...it really burns me to hear so many negative comments about formula. I get that I had medical/bad info issues, and GOD knows I gave it my all to get BF to work...but when I hear all these negative comments and judgements about FF it hurts. I wish those of you that make those comments would just stop. Women who choose not to BF have that right...seems to me that making comments most likely won't make them see the light...and it affects me.

I am meeting with a group of moms, some of which hang out here, and I am nervous because when I pull out the bottle, I know I will be judged...and it kills me that people think that I took the easy way...or I FF due to convenience. Truth be told it's no-ones business...and if I feel judged I will probably leave the meeting...but I really struggle with this.

Anyway...Tiffany...sorry...I digress. When you have your 2nd child...you may have a LOVELY BF life with your baby. My suggestion is to get all the info now...talk to a LC and hope for the best. Be gentle with yourself...

Hugs to you.