can't get a birth certificate!

[greenleesjewel]

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[lilyka]

Did you see a doctor at all while you were pregnant? Or any other sort of health care provider? Do you know a Dr. who would do you a favor? Do you have a ped who would be willing to write a note for you? If all else fails you can get a paternaty test. You shouldn't have to but it is better than going to court.

I had to get a letter from my ped. saying it was a live birth LOL. I had a live baby with me. It wasn't like the ped was there when I had her. Not like we had even met before she wrote the note. All she did was look at the baby and say "yep, she is alive and yes she is a girl" Duh, the lady at the registation counter could see that but all hail the infallable word of the sacred Dr. :rolleyes:

good luck too you. I know some people never get birth cirtificates and are none the worse for it.

[lilyka]

Oh, and CONGRATULATIONS on your new baby!!!:love

[indigolilybear]

hi. congrats on your birth. Would *love* to hear the story sometime!!
we too had a freebirth in May and had no trouble getting the cert. but we had a dr. note saying that I had come in "saying" I was pregnant (I came in for a back pain referral for a phys. therapist). and that I showed up w/ a 10 day old newborn (when he was having trouble breathing a little bit). It was very CYA on the dr.'s part but that's all we had. I thought they wouldn't accept it since it pretty much said that she had no way of knowing if I was really pregnant. Next time I going to get a preg test somewhere just to avoid this trouble!!!:rolleyes:
I don't know what you can do.....I am very surprised they're giving you taht much trouble. usually once you show up w/a babe, even if you don't have all the stuff they let you do itThey've given you absolutely no recourse?? I think i'd just put up a fuss till someone up there helped us out. But I don't know what you guys have tried thus far...I assume you already have put up a fuss....gee. I am stumped.
good luck. :confused:

[lilyka]

I know this is a long shot, nut did you save the preg test?

[greenleesjewel]

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[IamHeather]

Who assisted in your other births? Maybe he/she would help you obtain a birth certificate. Have you written or spoken to your congressman or senator? You can find out who they are by looking in your phone book. I'm sure that they would help you out. Call their offices and find out when they might be in the local office and show up with your stash of documentation and your baby.

Good luck, and congrats on your baby.

[Teresa]

Did you call the Health Department? We had to call the Health Department (NOT Public Records, Social Security etc.) and we also had to request a specific person who subsequently came to our home and interviewed us, filled out some forms and eventually sent a certificate. Try to find a midwife in your area who does homebirths and ask. We would have had an incredible runaround if we hadn't known the name of the one person in our entire county who registers homebirths!

[greenleesjewel]

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[hawleyclan]

Hi! :) Sorry to hear about your situation... :( In our town, we had to file for a birth certificate with our Justice of the Peace. We live in Texas. The catch is that we only have 5 days to get the document filled out and submitted... I thank God that we found out in time, we filed the day it was due... :O

If you are unable to find another branch of the city government who will work with you, your suggestion of writing the Governor is probably your next logical course of action. The confusion caused by unfiled citizens to tax records, SSI, etc. would be a true inconvenience to the Government, so he should have a vested interest in getting the laws causing this problem adjusted to allow for contingencies such as this... what would happen if a mother from another state were traveling through NJ on a vacation, pregnant, and delivered in transit? Where would she file?! (I realize that the example is far-fetched, but it is not impossible...)

Sorry I don't know more to offer. I pray someone will come to their senses and help you get what you need.

The Lord bless you,
Zoie :)

[kama'aina mama]

Warning: Totally unhelpful post to follow.

Am I the only one here with a naughty streak that says, "Okay, fine... don't register his birth. Can't be pressured to vax a kid the state won't acknowledge exists. Ditto schooling, registration fir selective service, etc, etc..." The naughty streak says this, mind you. I know that in practice it would create far more problems than it would solve, but geeze, this buearocracy is clearly insane. and hard to spell.

[greenleesjewel]

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[greenleesjewel]

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[EvilGeniusMama]

You said all this stuff was to protect against kidnapping, so would a simple DNA test be enough combined with all of your other proofs of pregnancy?
Brianne

[greenleesjewel]

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[Greaseball]

You may already know about this site - have you been to www.unassistedchildbirth.com?

Generally, people do not like to hear about unassisted home births. They will assume you're crazy or don't care about your baby. You might try saying that you were trying to get to the hospital but the birth just happened so fast, and see if people are more willing to help you.

You may very well have to write the governor. I guess if you're considering future unassisted births, you could get your pregnancy confirmed at a doctor's office and save the documentation, or take a film of the birth.

I was born at home unassisted, as well as my younger brother, and we both had no trouble getting birth certificates. That was in Oregon, though, and I guess my mother was seeing a doctor. (My parents lied and said they would call him when they were in labor!)

After I saw that site, I wanted to have an unassisted birth but I knew my husband would never agree, and I ended up having to go to the hospital anyway. Congratulations to you!

[candiland]

Yes, yes, join the club!! LOL
I homebirthed my baby girl in 1999 and still do not have a birth certificate. I did not have an unassisted birth; I had a CPM attend, and they are "illegal" birth attendants in the state of Maryland, so no matter what she wrote, it wouldn't do a squat bit of difference, because they wouldn't even consider her a midwife, anyway!!!
So what you do is, you call your local Dept. of Vital Records and tell them that you had your baby at home and that she needs a birth certificate. Make it quite clear that you do not want a DUPLICATE certificate - that she was never registered as being born and that you need an ORIGINAL birth certif. that registers her with the state. They will probably send you a packet in the mail, and one of the papers is for your pediatrician/homepathic doc/whoever sees your baby to fill out, stating that they saw the baby, that it was a live birth, that they checked it out, whatever. Then you fill in your portion of the packet and mail it back. My ped. lost my packet and it took me over one year to receive it..... so here I am, starting all over again. Aaargghhh!! Oh, you will have to register the child as a "delayed birth" or something to that effect if they're over one year of age.

[greenleesjewel]

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[greenleesjewel]

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[SagMom]

All 3 of mine were born in NJ, 2 at home, 1 unassisted. We called our local health department after dd's birth and explained that we needed a birth certificate. Health dept. took the info, names, address, dob. The only other thing that was needed was a signature of someone who witnessed the birth--doesn't have to be medical personell. Your prenatal care is, frankly, none of their business and is not needed for a birth certificate. Have you tried calling your LOCAL health dept. or are you dealing only with the state? I'd try local if you haven't already done that.

[greenleesjewel]

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[SagMom]

Ugh--I can't imagine your frustration, this is frustrating ME! How can they not allow you to register a birth? As Candice said, it's really important that they know you're trying to REGISTER a birth, and NOT obtain a birth certificate. Most people calling those offices are looking for copies of birth certificates, which is probably why you were sent over to vital statistics. I'd give the health dept one more shot and make it really clear that you're trying to register a birth. (I'm not sure from your post how you're wording it, so forgive me if you've made it clear already to them.)

[greenleesjewel]

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[MamaMel]

We are probably going to be in the same possition that you are in a couple of months from now, so please, please keep us updated as to what finally works! What kind of 'proof' do they want you to provide anyway??

[greenleesjewel]

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[SagMom]

That's amazing, Greenlee. Sorry I couldn't help. Since it's a STATE birth certificate, I don't understand how it can vary from county to county or town to town. If you go ahead and write to senators and such, I'd be really interested to hear the outcome, if you don't mind posting. Good luck!

[jenoline]

A friend of mine suggested contacting the ACLU. Surely you can't be denied a birth certificate just because the birth was not witnessed by a medical professional! This makes me angry, and a bit concerned about what I'll do if I choose to have a homebirth. Good Luck!!!

Oh - I just re-read your post and saw that you don't want to have to go to court. Very understandable. But if you do, I would definitely try the ACLU, instead of trying to hire a lawyer yourself

[Alexander]

Just sue them.

That'll wake them up.

Especially if the suit goes with local coverage.

a

[Greaseball]

Just remember, the government LOVES to keep track of everyone, so although they may jerk you around a lot at first, eventually you all will get your certificates.

[SagMom]

oooooh! Alexander had a good idea there---contact a newspaper--if you give them your story, and point out that other people in your state have no trouble getting a bc after a homebirth, that will bring the policy into question. What exactly IS the policy? Does anyone know? Reporters love inconsistencies in laws and policies. Isn't Camden considered an "inner city?" I wonder if people in wealthy suburbs have the same problem. (A low blow, I know, but it might attract the attention you're looking for--the state wouldn't want to be accussed of discrimination.)

[parisfrance]

I've been reading all this with interest, and Greenlee, let me just say, I admire you very much.

I think it's an awesome idea to contact the media. Also to write to government people (senators and the like). Be sure in all cases to write down names of the people you deal with (clerks and supervisors) at the various offices who turn you down (just asking for their names will make them nervous). Remind all government people and the media that your son is a future taxpayer and voter, and this is ridiculous to deny him that "opportunity" lol.

Good luck!!!

Michelle

(I tried for a homebirth, ended up with c/s. I used to live in New Hope, PA before moving to Europe)

[greenleesjewel]

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[parisfrance]

Your children are lucky to have such a caring mommy, Greenlee, good luck!!!!!

Michelle

[laralou]

I understand your reticence to publicize your controversial decision. Don't do anything to jeopardize your baby. I don't think you should ever raise awareness if the cost is they may take your baby away. But do bug the mess out of them. Remember the squeaky wheel gets the oil! Just keep going up the chain of command until you get what you need.

I also thought I would say fine and just not do it. Your babe won't need it for a long time and maybe by then the laws might change.

So I say fly under the radar AND be a squeaky wheel... now that is a tough combination.

If you aren't successful, post your governors info here and we will all write in protest!


edited because I'm a dolt and didn't finish reading before I responded.

[SagMom]

I can understand your concern. (It's really easy for ME to say "go to the papers! fight the fight! when I'm sitting on this end of the internet line!) I've been trying to remember when I've had the need for a birth certificate. I did need one to enter school, and I think to get married. I can't think of anything else though.

[jordmoder]

Hi all -

This is such an interesting thread (and what a drag for you, Greenlee!)

I worked as a licensed midwife in Washington state, and because I was licensed, I was REQUIRED to file a birth certificate. There were certain people who didn't want their child registered with the state, for their own reasons, but a birth certificate was a part of me being licensed.

Unfortunately, it *is* a real drag not to have a birth certificate if you ever want to get a passport or do anything else that requires proof of citizenship. And the State *does* have a vested interest in having a record of its citizens.

But what are you supposed to do???? I can't believe you are the only person/family who had their baby alone - most don't plan it that way, but that shouldn't matter in the slightest for you all! Was your husband present when your child was born? HE'S a witness, for goodness sake! and that is all a medical person is for the purposes of a birth certificate. In Washington state, the Informant, or person providing the information is the MOTHER and the person providing the certification is the WITNESS. Ridiculous that they say you can't get one. They probably just don't have the system set up to accept a non-credentialed witness.

Maybe you should say something like "Fine! I won't register my child with the state, and I will tell others what a pain it is, and they won't either." See how fast that gets attention!

Good luck to you and your sweet one.

Barbara

[laralou]

Dh had a great suggestion: Get a lawyer. (if you can afford one) I don't remember if anyone else suggested it. That way you could get your birth cert and protect yourself and your baby too.

[greenleesjewel]

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[IamHeather]

Are you actually in Camden? Maybe you could try going to a wealthy section of Camden county - like Haddonfield. Just a thought since someone else posted here about not having a problem getting a cert. in NJ in their county.

[yaboobarb]

If you haven't yet, I would definitely go to the media!

They would eat up a story like this!

Poor Poor Baby! ;)

[Bekka]

Well, I haven't had a homebirth or anything, and I'm very interested in this discussion, but taxes and other official stuff aside, birth certificate is the only "proof" you have (on paper) of your kid--and your responsibility to him/her. I've had friends who have travelled to _Canada_ with 5 or 6 kids (all theirs) and be questioned about whose all those kids were. She took to taking certified copies of all their birth certificates, etc. every time they went. I also had another friend who was taking her toddler on a plane as a lap baby, and had a flight attendant tell her that her baby didn't look "under two." The flight attendant told her she should carry a certified copy of her birth certicate, so I always have since she said that.

Greenlee, I'm sorry that this is being so hard. Good for you for being persistent, but keep your family safe too. Will be thinking of you.

[jasnjakesmama]

Is there an update on this situation?

[Xenogenesis]

So what happened? Did the birth certificate come through?

[Clarity]

Here's what I did step by step. I know you have covered a lot of this...but maybe this will help other people with the same problem. You may have done a lot of this, but I found backing up visits and phone calls with letters very helpful.

-called health dept, said I wanted to *register* a live birth at home, unattended. They gave me # of local vital statistics office. Ignore state, they just send copies of already registered births, as you know.
-talked to vital statistics gave her the details.
-heard nothing for a month
- requested legal copy of birth certificate from state office
- state vital statistics called us, they had no record of the birth being filed from the local office.
-called back local office and talked to supervisor of person I gave stats too
-faxed her a letter, too. Included names and numbers of people aware of the pregnancy. Mentioned we had photographs. :) (I would use anyone, if you had no prenatal care. postal carrier, pharmacist, particularly if they hold any sort of job that requires a license. Though several adult legal residents of the same county would be close enough, if they confirm that they are aware you were pregnant and delivered. If baby does not have a ped, I would find one...like a general family practice doc, in new jersey you can probably find a Dr of osteopathy or someone else chill. Make a well baby visit or two. This is CYA stuff in case they decide to investigate you. Just having a dr takes a lot of that risk away.)

-she said the maternal-child dept would need to send someone to interview the mother. asked of the name of the supervisor there.
-talked to her, found out name of nurse that would be coming.
-faxed maternal-child supervisor similar letter to give to nurse
-called nurse to set time.

-at the same time, I called my local elected official...I live in a town so I called my city council person, who happens to be a lawyer. Discussed it with him. Outline the basic issue...birth at home being legal, refusal to grant BC to a birth that actually occured illegal. He said he though being in touch with our local county council person would be helpful. He was willing to make that introduction. Knowing how the departments inter-relate helps. In our county, the head of the health Dept also heads up the county vital statistics stuff. They must issue bc for live births that occur. That is their legal obligation. I would have had our county council person contact the head of the health dept to emphasize their legal obligation and maybe had a lawyer send a letter for me. Legal action is probably not required. The health dept's lawyer would probably suggest they issue after getting an letter from your lawyer. Most lawyers will write letters for you at pretty minimal cost.)

-nurse came. We had all witnesses - me, my mom, my sis the one who gave birth, and her DH available. Baby was present. Though her DH was not there at the interview in the end. Wanted witesses in case they started giving her a hard time. She said she would file paperwork immediately. Did not need to show her photos or the frozen placenta, but if she had been more hostile, suspicious, or wanted to do a physical exam, I would have. There was a midwife but she was lay, and therefore illegal in our state. We never mentioned her.

-one month later, called state vital stats. still no record.

-called orginal supervisor of vital stats. left voicemail. Interview done, nurse said she would file, what was happening?
-no return call, but magically 3-4 weeks later, confirmation card of record of birth files shows up in the mail. I know those papers were sitting on the supervisor's desk and she forgot to send them until my voicemail.
-Request copies of BC officially with payment. BC come a few weeks later.

Process took about 4 months. But I could have done this faster if I had followed up with more phone calls/letters.

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One other thing I would do, maybe. The Social Security Adinistration has some special processes for issuing SSN without a birth certificate. Many people use got SSN's when it first started did not have BC. Visit their web site, search. Call the national office, and your local office. Call or go see them. They may be able to exert pressure on the state for you. If end people you talk to don't know, have them move you up the chain.

another thing I considered. Call a hospital in your county that delivers babies. And you closest one that delivers a LOT of babies. Ask who files the BC paperwork. Some have a dedicated registrar. Be very nice to her...explain your problem. Ask for advice. Ask for names. See if she can make phone calls for you. Maybe bring the baby by to say hello. See if she'll help you file your paperwork. If she can't she may still know what to do. Every hospital has seen unexpected out of hospital births, "I had no idea I was pregnant"!, etc. so she'd know what to do. Call your closest birth center, repeat the process. Call anyone that does home births either family pracitioner or CNM, ask them, etc.

All I can say is, I know there are people who refuse to get BC and SSN's on purpose. It is MUCH easier to do it now than for your child to do it later. People that refuse to do so are making that decisions for the child that will follow them into adulthood and make things they might want to do (military, professional careers, driver's license, marriage, travel outside the US) very difficult. So it's just something to think about when deciding to forgo any documentation at all. But there are definitely two sides to that argument, there are many people who feel very strongly about not doing so.

[Trishy]

Wow, what a situation! I know you are seeking a birth certificate but someone mentioned a SSN and I looked this up on SSA's site:

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=HfoO9YAg&p_lva=&p_faqid=92&p_created=955476802&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTYxJ nBfY2F0X2x2bDE9MTYmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=

You have to have two documents to verify age, identidy and citizenship status. Maybe you could get an affadavit from someone present as the birth to suffice as one of the documents? Are you a member of a church? Many churches issue some type of birth records. I would say make an appointment at your Social Security Office and see what you would need to do to get a card for your ds. Hopefully you could get a birth certificate in the end.