Ahhhhhh! More gifted program questions!

[USAmma]

I posted on my last thread (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=492677) about the different schools for dd. Mainly the local gifted program, or a school I felt good about but does not have a gifted program.

I just got off the phone with the director of the gifted program at the local school. I really wanted to know more info about it and so far I am even more unsure about that path.

The K program (what dd would be in now) has low enrollment so they are still open to more kids. They invited me to have dd tested this Sat. I was unsure if I wanted her tested yet since she won't be put into school until 1st grade, and besides we are camping on Sat. when the testing is going on. They will keep testing kids and enrolling them until it's full.

The test is a sort of IQ test. It is not based at all on what level(s) a child is at with academic skills. Thedirector said giftedness is inherent in a child and some children do not have the advantage of a good early education while others do. They want to take the gifted kids based on their inherent abilities, not on their current abilities. I agree to a point. I don't want my child in the program if she is not truly gifted. Anyway, a child has to score 97% or higher in one area of the test to be considered gifted.

I asked, okay IF she qualifies, how are the children taught? Are they all taught to the same level in the subjects, or is it self-paced? She said that some kids come in reading chapter books and some come in not knowing how to read at all. Mind you, there is one teacher for the K class and right now there are 13 kids and they are looking to put more in. How is it possible to teach all of these kids to their own levels? I don't understand how this would work. How can one teacher challenge kids individually who are at all those different levels? Maybe someone with a kid in such a program can help me out. I suppose if she did qualify I could ask to sit in on a class and talk to the teacher and find out.

IF she does not qualify (and I really at this point don't care-- I just want to find where she fits best and will be happy :dizzy: ) but she is very book smart and ahead in subjects, what will they do with her? I asked this of the general counselor, not the gifted director. I said she is homeschooled right now and she is at different levels in different areas. For example she's reading Magic Tree House books when most kids are learning basic phonics. The person showed no knowledge of our state homeschooling laws, which are to teach the core subjects, but there is no requirement for curriculum or certain subjects/levels at certain ages. She didn't know that. I could hear the unspoken irritation in her voice and the question of why I would be teaching her ahead anyway. She said I would have to bring in her work and they would show the principal and "decide what to do with her." She seemed confused that a child who operated levels ahead of her peers would not be in the gifted program.

The other school, I already know because I talked to the counselor, pulls the kids out as needed and places them in advanced classes for specific subjects but they stay with their age group for most of the day. This is the school I feel the good vibes with and am inclined to enroll her in next year in spite of the fact that it's 15 minutes drive instead of down the street like the other school is. I am learning to follow my intuition but I wanted to rule out the closer school and the gifted program first and try to see this choice with an open mind. I just wanted to find out from parents whose kids are in the gifted programs, how they work and if they seem to serve the needs of the kids. Also, if the kids feel a sense of competion since some are probably more gifted than others.

Thanks again!

[alegna]

Public schools of course vary greatly by area. BUT I can tell you what would happen around here. Around here they SAY in the gifted programs that they will give individual students individualized work. It rarely happens. Maybe one or two kids at the top and one or two kids at the bottom. Everyone else is SOL.

As for working past level. Probably too bad. The school system we have now is set up for a room full of kids theoretically working at the same level at the same pace.

-Angela

[USAmma]

Public schools of course vary greatly by area. BUT I can tell you what would happen around here. Around here they SAY in the gifted programs that they will give individual students individualized work. It rarely happens. Maybe one or two kids at the top and one or two kids at the bottom. Everyone else is SOL.

As for working past level. Probably too bad. The school system we have now is set up for a room full of kids theoretically working at the same level at the same pace.

-Angela

That's kinda what I was thinking. It has been backed up so far by three different parents that I met who have pulled their children out of that program and are homeschooling or private schooling now.

[alegna]

Yeah. Honestly I planned to have my kids in the gifted programs in general (of course, if they qualified) UNTIL I taught in them. :dizzy: Teaching in the public schools is what made me decide to homeschool.

There are a couple of private schools in town I'd consider (mostly montessori) but at $10,000+ a year it's not do-able since we plan 4 kids.

-Angela

[catgirl]

. I could hear the unspoken irritation in her voice and the question of why I would be teaching her ahead anyway.


Oy. You're not "teaching her ahead". You're teaching her where she is.:irked:

[boongirl]

The reality in school education, public or private, is that it is impossible to truly individualize instruction. I think schools do themselves and families a disservice by even trying to state that they do, because they cannot. You cannot have more than one child in the room and be teaching them individually, which is what it literally means to individualize instruction. What you can do is either monitor their self pacing or group them according to similarities by subject. That is what you are stating the second school, the good vibe one, is doing and that is a better way to truly meet children's needs, imo, because at least they are working at a level near their own. In the gifted K program, she probably has them doing a lot of things at stations that enable them to move at their own pace and explore more deeply than the regular K. I could be wrong, so it might help to actually talk to the K gifted teacher and even visit the classroom to have her show you what she does.

Personally, having read both threads, I would go for the good vibe school, so long as they agree to test her and put her in the subject matter groups that align with her test results. She probably won't be in other classes all day long, because some instruction will be done by age not level, but she would at least, hopefully, get the math and reading instruction that she is ready for. And, a good vibe goes a long way, in my book.

[USAmma]

Thanks for listening and giving your input. I am still leaning towards the good vibe school. Even dh got a good feeling when we went to an open house yesterday.

I talked to another friend whose son is highly gifted and in that gifted program. I had to look her up, it's been awhile since I talked to her. She says basically what you all say. No school can do them justice but her feeling is that it's better to group them together so they don't feel "odd" and they can challenge each other. She feels this is better than being teased or picked on for going to another classroom for part of the day to study higher level subjects. She even told me to have her take the testing even if she's not going to go to school this year, so I can help her practice for next year to make sure she gets in! That's where I was kinda taken aback. I didn't realize you could help a kid study for entrance into the program. I mean, either they get in or they don't. She said many parents are very competative about it.

I probably will have her tested just so I can find out where she stands, and I can take that info to the good vibe school and see what they might offer for her. But I will also ask to see the gifted classroom in action if she qualifies just to absolutely rule it out in my mind and remove any doubts.

[momtokay]

Hmm, not sure if this is relevant or not, but last year my DD was in a class of 8 kids with pretty varying abilities and they were pretty well safe paced. They had times where they worked together (for example everyone worked on spelling together mostly using word families) but mostly they worked independently and the teacher would check in with everyone at least one time per day per subject spending more time with individual kids or small groups as needed. It was their teacher's first time at the school (after 33 years of teaching elsewhere) and she's implementing some changes for this year that I really like. Next year DD will be in a class of 17 kids with 2 teachers and an aide. I believe there will be less whole group teaching and more small group along with plenty of individual work as well. It is not a gifted program though it is mixed age (5 to 8yos). My DD was the youngest by 10 months as a new 5yo and was somewhere in the middle as far as reading level. One big difference between DD's school and the gifted program you mentioned is that her school has the ability to move the kids who are reading chapter books up to be with the older kids for reading and they do move kids around. Good luck figuring it all out!! Choosing a school can be so hard and it's many times harder when dealing with a gifted child.

[*~Danielle~*]

I whole heartedly agree that it is impossible in a classroom setting with more than 5 kids, to truly individualize their instruction. I taught 4th grade in a charter school with 20 children and I did my student teaching and assisted in a montessori for one year. Individualized instruction does not happen in group settings. It really is unrealistic to ask one teacher to plan individualized instruction for more than a handful of kids. She/he would be doing nothing else but planning for everyone's children...I don't know anyone who works 24/7 and forgoes eating and sleeping and relational interaction to individualize instruction for a classroom full of students. It is an impossibility. The only way your children will get their needs met is if they are in a very, very small classroom setting or homeschooled.

As a teacher, I will be homeschooling. Teaching in a classroom with many students just drove home to me that my children would be placed in catagories with other "similar" students and then generic instruction would be given to all.

Interests, motivations, abilities will all be pushed aside in a classroom setting with many students. The goal is to teach the students enough to do well on "the test". Sad but true.