Precocious readers

[mamallama]

Whoa! I'm so glad to see this forum!

My dd (now 7) learned to read (self-taught) when she was 4. She read _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone_ when she was 5. She currently reads, comprehends and discusses on about a 7th grade level. She reads voraciously.

I'm finding there are issues unique to gifted readers. Censorship, for one. For example, there are themes that are appropriate for 12 year olds that just aren't ok for asychronous 7 year olds.

She is also discovering that her age group peers haven't read the books she's read, and they aren't even remotely interested in discussing them. And it turns out, neither are most adults. Through her love of literature, she is discovering the things that make her different.

As a parent, I am met with incredulity and disbelief at every turn. Last year I hit a wall and I asked one of the head librarians for guidance on choosing books. She said that while C might be reading books that far above her reading level, she certainly isn't comprehending them. She suggested _The Magic Treehouse_ series. C read every one of those when she was 4.

Talk to me, folks. This is a huge, multinational board. Surely someone knows where I'm coming from!

[lasciate]

That librarian was an idiot. But then, you already knew that.

I was a voracious reader and at age 7 was devouring books like Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys, as well as Judy Blume books. I don't know if that helps you any, I'm not familiar with more recent book series.

[NoHiddenFees]

DD1 is a voracious reader. I end up pre-reading a LOT of books, though it's hard to keep up with her. I'm ecstatic when I find a good series. Our local children's librarian has been very helpful. She (like us) is a big fan of British kid's fiction. Has your DD read the Bagthorpe series by Helen Cresswell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Cresswell)?

[Mamma Mia]

I really enjoyed Wise Child and Juniper, which I previewed for my young dd who doesn't read yet, but enjoys listening to long stories like Harry Potter. We were looking for books because I felt like reading her Lord of the Rings was not quite appropriate for her age.

My library has a list called "While you're waiting for the next Harry Potter book to come out..." and has books written for about the same reading level with fun fantasy and adventure type themes. It may be a google-able thing or something another librarian can help with.

[teachma]

My maybe-gifted 6 year old is a pretty strong reader though certainly not a precocious one as we typically think of it. I can easily relate to the issue of themes in books being too emotionally sophisticated or otherwise inappropriate for gifted younger children despite those children possessing the comprehension skills to understand them. Though my son did not teach himself to read at a young age, his greatest strengths are language-related, and his accelerated comprehension creates problems all the time. For instance, when he is a passenger in the car, dh and I no longer listen to the news stories on NPR because ds understands them and in our situation, there is a lot about the world that I feel isn't safe for a high-anxiety, borderline obsessive-compulsive, very bright kid to know about. It's so much harder to keep them sheltered from anything at all when they can read and understand, but not truly process the implications, of scary/sad news or literature. Sorry for that personal side-track...just my way of expressing that I understand.

In addition to being a mom, I am also an elementary teacher, and I run into the problem of helping gifted and plain-old advanced readers choose books with appropriate content at their level. Ask any good educator or librarian- it is an age-old struggle. Unfortunately, I do not have a strong solution. I am sure you already try to read books before offering them to dd; it's just a lot of guess-work the way I pick and choose. Sorry, no help here, but I can relate.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Last year I hit a wall and I asked one of the head librarians for guidance on choosing books. She said that while C might be reading books that far above her reading level, she certainly isn't comprehending them. She suggested _The Magic Treehouse_ series. C read every one of those when she was 4!

Ah, don't you love ignorant judgments based only on prejudice and generalities?

Okay, we're in the same boat. Here are some recommendations:

1. Anything by Edward Eager
2. Anything by Lemony Snicket
3. Anything by L. Frank Baum
4. Anything by Louisa May Alcott
5. Anything by Eleanor Estes
6. The Chronicles of Narnia
7. The Hobbit
8. The Tale of Despereaux
9. Because of Winn-Dixie
10. The Island of the Blue Dolphins

That should tide you over for a little while. :lol

[eilonwy]

:innocent This question seems to come up fairly often; I wonder if we should ask for a sticky...:scratch

Lists of books:

A recent thread here (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=490279)
And another (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=481267)
And another (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=436137)

[mamallama]

Ah, don't you love ignorant judgments based only on prejudice and generalities?

Okay, we're in the same boat. Here are some recommendations:

1. Anything by Edward Eager
2. Anything by Lemony Snicket
3. Anything by L. Frank Baum
4. Anything by Louisa May Alcott
5. Anything by Eleanor Estes
6. The Chronicles of Narnia
7. The Hobbit
8. The Tale of Despereaux
9. Because of Winn-Dixie
10. The Island of the Blue Dolphins

That should tide you over for a little while. :lol

Bwahahaha! She hasn't read all of L. Frank Baum, she doesn't like Louisa May Alcott or Eleanor Estes, and she hasn't read The Island of the Blue Dolphins. She's read Chronicles... twice, Harry Potter (books 1-6) twice, and Eragon and Eldest twice. As far as I know, she's read all of Jean Craighead George, and that lady is prolific. Seriously, she has read 10-15 books/month for the past 2 years.

But thanks for the recommendations :)

I have the reading lists, I have the library references (ie-if you liked this, try this.) I'm always looking for new books & resources, but I was more interested in talking about life with a precocious reader.

Do you censor? Based on what? How does that go over? I'm starting to encounter a lot of resistance when I say no to particular titles. In the past, I've been able to offer alternate choices. Now that she can cross-reference Amazon's search engine with the library's website and independantly request titles, she doesn't want me meddling with her choices. I have told her point blank "this book deals with sexuality in a way that I just don't think you're ready for." When I'm blunt, she is more accepting, but she still doesn't like it. Being 7 and asynchronous, she's likely to throw a fit over it.

I'll check out the other threads. I hadn't realized it had been discussed.

[eilonwy]

I was more interested in talking about life with a precocious reader.

Do you censor? Based on what? How does that go over? I'm starting to encounter a lot of resistance when I say no to particular titles. In the past, I've been able to offer alternate choices. Now that she can cross-reference Amazon's search engine with the library's website and independantly request titles, she doesn't want me meddling with her choices. I have told her point blank "this book deals with sexuality in a way that I just don't think you're ready for." When I'm blunt, she is more accepting, but she still doesn't like it. Being 7 and asynchronous, she's likely to throw a fit over it.

I'll check out the other threads. I hadn't realized it had been discussed.

I was a precocious and voracious reader. My mother pre-screened books for me until I was about eight years old (I think). She read a book called Will the Real Gertrude Hollings Please Stand Up? and told me that she thought I was too young for this book, and that it wasn't appropriate for me. I read it anyway, and I understood why she had that impression but I disagreed with her. We discussed the book, and after that she stopped trying to censor my reading material.

That said, she was much more inclined to censor for realistic situations than for things like fantasy violence. I had an easy time separating science fiction and fantasy from reality, so violence in those settings didn't phase me. I didn't have a problem with sex unless it was totally over the top or came off as "obsessive," but I was more interested in other things.

My son isn't at a reading level that necessitates (much) screening on my part. He's lucky, though; I've got a long, long list of appropriate books in my head that he'll work his way through, and he'll probably be "old enough" by the time he gets through them all.

I don't believe in censoring books, and neither did my mother; if a child isn't mature enough or emotionally sophisticated enough to deal with a particular event/character, then they're not ready for that particular book in my opinion.

[meowee]

I gave up on the censorship issue when my son was about 7... maybe I should have given up earlier.

Veritas and Sonlight have wonderful reading lists. And just because a book is "easy," doesn't mean she won't enjoy it ;). All it means is that she'll finish it really, really fast.

Has she read the "My Father's Dragon" books yet? They are beautiful stories, even if on the easy side.

Don't look to mainstream sources like a librarian for help... there's really no point.

Try the "library builders" section of Rainbow Resource.

Here's a great list:

http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/celoop/1000.html

[BamBam'sMom]

I was also a big reader as a child. My mom never censored the books I read, which I thought was great. She would give me books that I wasn't ready for. She gave me "Huckleberry Finn" when I was too young to read it. I mean, I got through the story, but I just didn't have the backgroung knowledge yet to understand what was going on. When it came time to read it again in high school, I realized how much I had missed out on the first time.

My favorite author as a child was Roald Dahl. I devoured everything he wrote.

[mamallama]

Yeah, she liked _My Father's Dragon_. She also likes Roald Dahl. She's read them all--and I think she's read _Matilda_ several times.

She does read the "easy" books really fast--if they're interesting enough. A growing number of them aren't. One of my library goals each week is to dig out a couple of the easier books I think she might like. She's outgrown a ton of good books without reading them, so I feel like there's an ever shrinking window to absorb some things.

[Mamma Mia]

I just remembered that I loved the Laura Ingalls Wilder books when I was a kid. I was a precocious reader myself and started reading them in 1st grade or so, re-reading them until about 3rd grade, I think. I also read Chronicles of Narnia and all the Tolkien books around that time.

[water]

What about Lloyd Alexander? Ursula Le Guin? Anne McCaffrey(sp?)? They are all fantasy writers and accessible to younger readers. I'll try and think of some more Fantasy I enjoyed when younger too.

That said, I do think you should censor at this age to some degree. I went through my parents' bookshelves from ages six through ten and there were some things I wish I had not read, the images traumatized me and still stick in my head. Slaughterhouse Five, 1984, many books on the Holocaust, various books with (from an adult's POV) not very graphic rape scenes, but to a child very horrifying.

[Mamma Mia]

I also just previewed Artemis Fowl(e?) for my child and thought it was fun.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Do you censor? Based on what? How does that go over?



Yes, we do. Based on crap. For example, about a year or so ago, Lou had plowed through all of the Ramona books and then some, so I was wondering if she would like Junie B. Jones. I pre-read the first one.

NO. Flippin'. Way.

Some may disagree (this is a big, wide world with room for more than one opinion), but I thought the books were garbage in pretty much any direction -- grammatically, literarily, and certainly ethically. I did censor them and did tell her why, and that pretty much convinced her. Whew.

Other books I've censored, I've censored because of similar reasons: limited literary value and what I think of as bad ethics -- main characters emphasizing values with which I generally don't tend to agree. For instance, I looked through Are You There, God... by Judy Blume, and although I'd liked it in 6th grade, I was surprised by how shallow and superficial all the girls seemed. One might argue, "But all adolescent girls are like that," but one might also argue whether or not these are traits that should be emphasized and encouraged in culture, KWIM?

Oh, just off the cuff, some more possible recommendations for you to bwah-ha-ha at:

The Royal Diaries series
Just Ella, by Margaret Peterson Haddix
Anything by Gail Carson Levine
The Giver, by Lois Lowry
Five Children and It, by E. Nesbit
The Earthsea Trilogy, by Ursula K. LeGuin
A Wrinkle in Time, by Madeleine L'Engle
Dragonsong (and sequelae Dragonsinger and Dragondrums) by Anne McCaffrey. The other books in this series (e.g., the other Dragonbooks) contain some degree of adult content, specifically sexual content, but these scenes are not frequent, nor are they central features of the book. They are not graphic, and although one is nonconsensual, the circumstances make it clear that it is not an act of violence or hatred.
The Clan of the Cave Bear, by Jean M. Auel. This book does contain nonconsensual sexual content and some violence.





I'm starting to encounter a lot of resistance when I say no to particular titles. In the past, I've been able to offer alternate choices. Now that she can cross-reference Amazon's search engine with the library's website and independantly request titles, she doesn't want me meddling with her choices. I have told her point blank "this book deals with sexuality in a way that I just don't think you're ready for." When I'm blunt, she is more accepting, but she still doesn't like it. Being 7 and asynchronous, she's likely to throw a fit over it.

I'll check out the other threads. I hadn't realized it had been discussed.

Hope these suggestions help a bit more. It is frustrating -- or "challenging," depending on how much coffee I've had.:wink

[jkpmomtoboys]

Wrinkle in Time is an interesting suggestion--I remember picking it up at 7 or 8, being able to read it but having no idea of its deeper meaning. If you do offer that option to your daughter (and it's a very interesting book, no doubt), be sure to check in with her periodically with regard to comprehension. I was sorry in retrospect that I didn't save that book for a few years down the line.

[Charles Baudelaire]

I don't believe in censoring books, and neither did my mother; if a child isn't mature enough or emotionally sophisticated enough to deal with a particular event/character, then they're not ready for that particular book in my opinion.

99% of the time I agree with you, Rynna, to the point where I often don't reply because using the "Yeah, that" smilie too often makes one look like an idiot, but on this one, our opinions diverge.

My mom had basically that approach, but I honestly wish she'd been more of a gatekeeper. I just plain wasted my time reading a great deal of crap when I could've been reading books of far greater and more lasting value, and although I enjoyed them at the time, I think of it kind've like how we look back on a McGarbage Meal: we ate it, but we know we really shouldn't have.

When I got a little older (like 12), this also meant I was definitely reading books that would be inappropriate, specifically a lot of Jacqueline Susann. I honestly think the content (lots of Valium and other drug abuse, straight and kinky sex, and worst of all, submissive and shallow female characters) isn't appropriate for a 12-year-old in pretty much any direction. And no, it didn't make me grow three heads out of which I did three different drugs at the same time, but all the same, it would have been better, I think, if Mom had stepped in and said, "Not right now."

What I mostly regret is the waste of time and the lack of intellectual challenge I was apparently willing to give myself.

[eilonwy]

Wrinkle in Time is an interesting suggestion--I remember picking it up at 7 or 8, being able to read it but having no idea of its deeper meaning. If you do offer that option to your daughter (and it's a very interesting book, no doubt), be sure to check in with her periodically with regard to comprehension. I was sorry in retrospect that I didn't save that book for a few years down the line.

This was one of the books that I loved as a child, and I worried that it wouldn't be "good" any more once I was a grownup. I was actually quite relieved when I reread it at 22 (my first eBay purchase, in fact!) and it was still good. :D Same thing with Anastasia Krupnik-- I loved those books as a little kid, and I was so glad that they were still funny as an adult. BeanBean listened to it on CD and got a real kick out of it all, but I think he'll enjoy it more when he's a bit older.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Wrinkle in Time is an interesting suggestion--I remember picking it up at 7 or 8, being able to read it but having no idea of its deeper meaning. If you do offer that option to your daughter (and it's a very interesting book, no doubt), be sure to check in with her periodically with regard to comprehension. I was sorry in retrospect that I didn't save that book for a few years down the line.

I think WIT, like Mary Poppins' magic elixir, is something that changes its flavor a little bit every time. I read it when I was seven and it touched me profoundly: I connected most of all with the angry and belligerent Margaret (gee, wonder why? :lol ) because she made clear so much of why I found school stultifying and horrid, and much of the rest of it, I "got," but on the intuitive, nonverbal level. It resonated for me, even though I would have been hard-pressed to put it into words.

[nyveronica]

My dd who turned 6 in April, has been reading these this summer:

The Secret Garden
The Alchemist, Paulo Coehlo
Grendel, John Gardner

And various books from the Nancy Drew series (she finds these 'corny' and not at all scary)

We don't censor. She's really good at that herself. Her intuition and emotional development are the gifts she showed us first and early... and I think that her voracious reading is helping her digest, understand and really 'get' things.

[Cloverlove]

My first post in this forum!

I have struggled with this issue for awhile. However, DS is now 8 and it is becomming less of a concern. Fortunately the books he has been drawn to this summer have mostly been our various adventure & autobiographical books (eg: Into Thin Air, Lance Armstrong, Julia Butterfly, Icemaster, etc). He also read the Douglas Adams Trilogy for the first time and really enjoyed it! :p

I did ask him to wait on A Long Strange Trip (a book about the Grateful Dead) and A Brave New World. If he really protested, I probably would have reconsidered but for the time he was fine with it.

I live in a city where hard copies of The Onion are available and I did have to draw the line at Savage Love last summer. :o I basically stopped bringing it home.

[MamaMonica]

I don't have a gifted child (at least don't think so), but a voracious reader who by age six read two chapter books a day and sometimes reads four a day now at age seven. Unfortuately she doesn't like fantasy (yet). The lists in the links above are helpful.

I am having trouble prescreening the quantity so if she picks one out I just skim the back and if it looks OK let her have it.

[Charles Baudelaire]

I live in a city where hard copies of The Onion are available and I did have to draw the line at Savage Love last summer. :o I basically stopped bringing it home.

Completely OT, but I love Dan Savage.:wink

[flitters]

I recall loving Ann of Green Gables around that age.
I think I also liked Heidi.
Little House series and Oz series were both incredibly formative reads for me.

I always loved books that had some aspect of country life.

[A&A]

I'm finding there are issues unique to gifted readers. Censorship, for one. For example, there are themes that are appropriate for 12 year olds that just aren't ok for asychronous 7 year olds.

She is also discovering that her age group peers haven't read the books she's read, and they aren't even remotely interested in discussing them. And it turns out, neither are most adults. Through her love of literature, she is discovering the things that make her different.

Surely someone knows where I'm coming from!

I COMPLETELY know where you are coming from! I got this question many times: "Why is your dd carrying around such a big book?" (Like Harry Potter at 5--just like your dd! .) Uh, because she's reading it!


And I received this response once: "She must not be able to read that. Perhaps she's just turning pages." (Really? For hours? Wouldn't that get kind of boring?)

[mamachandi]

didn't read all the responses but I love www.chinaberry.com she has a wonderful selection of books and critiques every one of them. she lists by age group so if your child is reading at middle school level you could go for the 10 and up books.

[sophmama]

Would she be interested in autobiographies? That could open up a whole new realm to her. Or books on issues - political movements, life in the middle ages, or other things that still contain a story line but would expand the field in some new but often safe categories of reading? There are some great books that analyze various events in history and give the 'story behind' what we know about the events. My dh (history teacher) will sometimes be moved to tears by some of the books he reads about various world history events/periods - so they can't be that boring (and he's pretty much a 'tough guy').

My $.02 (which may be useless) - is to delve into non-fiction.

[LynnS6]

Yes, we do. Based on crap. For example, about a year or so ago, Lou had plowed through all of the Ramona books and then some, so I was wondering if she would like Junie B. Jones. I pre-read the first one.

NO. Flippin'. Way.

Interesting --- my mom had exactly the opposite approach and it worked well. She did read some of the books I brought home so she knew what was in them and we could talk about them, but she never ever censored anything. I read at age 3-4, and like many of the kids here, had pretty much gone through the kid stuff pretty early. (My sister was an even more voracious early reader -- and was very upset by reading Black Beauty, but she was like 4-5 when she did that?)

Her view was that that there's no better way to learn what makes good literature than reading a whole bunch of pap. Then when you come across the good stuff, you KNOW it's good. She did draw the line at reading the stuff outloud to me (I distinctly remember her telling me that I could read that stuff if I wanted to, but she was NOT.)

Anyway, I don't plan to censor anything. We get our books from the library. I can refuse to buy crap, but I'll happily let my kids read it.

Suggestions:

Misty of Chincoteague (there might be a sequel too) -- it'll be easy for her, but it's a good story.
The James Herriot Books (the one's for grown ups, not the ones for kids - she might miss some of the humor, but they're fine for kids that age)

If you're going "back" for books and she hasn't read the Paddington books, I LOVED those when I was 5-7.

I second
The Wrinkle in Time Series
Wizard of Earthsea Trilogy
Anne of Greene Gables



What about non-fiction? Any interests there?

[mamachandi]

Would she be interested in autobiographies? That could open up a whole new realm to her. Or books on issues - political movements, life in the middle ages, or other things that still contain a story line but would expand the field in some new but often safe categories of reading? There are some great books that analyze various events in history and give the 'story behind' what we know about the events. My dh (history teacher) will sometimes be moved to tears by some of the books he reads about various world history events/periods - so they can't be that boring (and he's pretty much a 'tough guy').

My $.02 (which may be useless) - is to delve into non-fiction.
oh I think thats a wonderful idea. my temple has a great selection of autobiographies geared towards kids/young adults and I think they are great reading. maybe check out the middle school or young adult section of your library?? ours has it broken down like that..

[mamallama]

I checked out Helen Cresswell--the series looks great.

Dd has read a few biographies. She really liked the ones about Marie Curie and Julia Butterfly Hill, but she isn't so much interested in popular culture/sports figures/dead white guys.

She also likes non-fiction, and she eats up history. We do Story of the World (lots of good discussion points!) and a lot of times she'll use that as a starting point for her own exploration. I did buy the DK Children's Bible for her (we're not Christian--hence the discussion re: SotW,) she read it cover to cover in a few days. We followed that up with a study of world religion, which led to a phenomenal book about the concept of heaven/the afterlife as seen from 10-15 different points of view....

I'm pretty good at digging up resources, and I almost always enjoy facilitating her education...but the pace is relentless!

[momtokay]

:topic

And I received this response once: "She must not be able to read that. Perhaps she's just turning pages." (Really? For hours? Wouldn't that get kind of boring?)

Uh, well, my three year old probably would spend hours turning the pages and I'm pretty sure she can't read yet. :innocent Okay back to the thread...

[jkpmomtoboys]

Completely OT, but I love Dan Savage.:wink

Ok I have to second Savage as well....I have a subscription to the Onion and I am loathe to admit his is the first column I turn to. :o

[eilonwy]

My mom had basically that approach, but I honestly wish she'd been more of a gatekeeper. I just plain wasted my time reading a great deal of crap when I could've been reading books of far greater and more lasting value, and although I enjoyed them at the time, I think of it kind've like how we look back on a McGarbage Meal: we ate it, but we know we really shouldn't have.

When I got a little older (like 12), this also meant I was definitely reading books that would be inappropriate, specifically a lot of Jacqueline Susann. I honestly think the content (lots of Valium and other drug abuse, straight and kinky sex, and worst of all, submissive and shallow female characters) isn't appropriate for a 12-year-old in pretty much any direction. And no, it didn't make me grow three heads out of which I did three different drugs at the same time, but all the same, it would have been better, I think, if Mom had stepped in and said, "Not right now."

What I mostly regret is the waste of time and the lack of intellectual challenge I was apparently willing to give myself.

You know, I never really cared for crap books. :shrug I've read more of them as an adult, but I was something of a book snob as a child, to the point that my mother was actually concerned about me. She said it seemed unwholesome for a child to refuse to read comic books. :lol [*Note: Incidentally, that did come back to bite me in the buns later. I was the only person I knew who had no idea that Smallville was the town in which Clark Kent had grown up. :blush :bag: I was also very, very sorry that I hadn't read Sandman when it first came out; graphic novels or otherwise, those are some damn fine books!]

My sisters read things like The Babysitters Club and Sweet Valley Twins, but I read a few of them and found them mind-numbingly boring. It wasn't so much the lack of intellectual challenge that bothered me, but a complete inability to relate to the characters. I kept thinking that they were stereotypes, but they didn't seem real at all. My mother said, "You find them to be shallow archetypical representations of children that you don't particularly care for when you meet them for real, is that it?" That was exactly it, but it was beyond my powers of articulation when I was little. :lol Anyway, I vastly preferred the classics when it came to children's books. I paid more attention to the Newberry awards and such. Maybe I was really odd. :o

[Charles Baudelaire]

My sisters read things like The Babysitters Club and Sweet Valley Twins, but I read a few of them and found them mind-numbingly boring. It wasn't so much the lack of intellectual challenge that bothered me, but a complete inability to relate to the characters. I kept thinking that they were stereotypes, but they didn't seem real at all. My mother said, "You find them to be shallow archetypical representations of children that you don't particularly care for when you meet them for real, is that it?" That was exactly it, but it was beyond my powers of articulation when I was little. :lol Anyway, I vastly preferred the classics when it came to children's books. I paid more attention to the Newberry awards and such. Maybe I was really odd. :o

Good for you -- and your mom. Clear that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.:wink

[frog]

I was an early and voracious reader and so was turtle. My parents did no gate-keeping of my reading and I appreciated that very much and still do.

My teachers didn't know what to do with me and by the time I was 11 my reading assignments were just to read whatever I wanted to read and write small papers about the books, something which led to me reading The Scarlet Letter at 12. That wasn't such a great decision, but what can you do?

I'm not sure how turtle's parents handled her reading, but we agree that with our kids (not yet conceived...), we won't censor their reading. We're big believers in building a wide library for ourselves and our kids, and including a few books by a lot of different authors, as well as the award-winning books as we run across them at thrift stores and the like. Our idea is that if our kids find a book they like in our home, they'll be able to read everything by that author through our (quite excellent) local libraries.

As an aside, for those of you with kids who liked Harry Potter, Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy might be a good bet.

[NoHiddenFees]

We've just found a couple great nonfiction titles. I loved Born Free when I was a kid, so I'm always looking for books like that for the girls.

Modoc: The True Story of the Greatest Elephant That Ever Lived (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060929510)
Zamba: The True Story of the Greatest Lion That Ever Lived (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060761326)

They are written by a Hollywood animal trainer, the first to use "affection training." We're against animal circuses, etc., but these are still fascinating reads.

Dove (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060920475) had been recommended to me for DD1, but I haven't checked it out yet. It's the true story of a teenager who sails around the world.

[NoHiddenFees]

As an aside, for those of you with kids who liked Harry Potter, Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy might be a good bet.Oooh, that reminds me: Pullman's Sally Lockhart trilogy is also fantastic. Very strong female protagonist.

[ExuberantDaffodil]

Voracious reader, here too. I learned to read when I was about 3 or 4. Parents didn't censor a whole (but if only they knew what I was reading!!! :o ) Read Anne Frank before I was 8. Read all seven of the Chronicles of Narnia before I was 7. I was ADDICTED to Madeline L'Engle books... oh man, she helped shape who I am today. A mix between science and fantasy and real life. Awesome writer! (She breastfed, too :wink ) Basically, I would read anything I could get my hands on. I went through a Beverly Cleary stage when I was young... Read Pearl S Buck's The Good Earth when I was 11 (eye opening!!). I loved biographies and research type stuff. Oooh... and Jean Craighead George had some fabulous natural-type books... Julie of the Wolves, My Side of the Mountain... I really enjoyed her books.

DS seems to have inhereted early reading skills (although I wouldn't really call him gifted) as he is obsessed with naming letters wherever he goes and loves alphabet play. I hope to encourage his natural interest with books about things he likes but that aren't watered down... kwim?

[NoHiddenFees]

That said, she was much more inclined to censor for realistic situations than for things like fantasy violence. I had an easy time separating science fiction and fantasy from reality, so violence in those settings didn't phase me.We incline this way as well. There's an excellent essay by Rowan Williams (Archbishop of Canturbury) in which he discusses how fantasy (contrary to what many of the "ban Harry Potter" types in various churches believe) can help us come to grips with the darker sides of our society and our own natures, but at arm's length, so we're not plunged into an existential despair at too young an age.

DD1 is only 4.5; as time goes on I'll obviously be pre-reading less.

I don't allow much pap in the house. We do have the Wishing Tree stories and the Faraway Tree stories by Enid Blyton (I abhor these), but they were the first "big" books DD1 could read and she really does love them still. At least she's outgrown Milly-Molly-Mandy. She can get anything she wants from the library, but I'm a compulsive book buyer and have filled the kids' room with an embarassing amount of books.

[Terabith]

In regards to censorship, I'm all for promoting good books via booklists, bringing home books from library for dc, etc, but I am against censorship. I was a voracious and very very fast reader as a kid. The only thing my mom told me I couldn't read was Stephen King. Those were totally inappropriate, and I never had had any interest in reading them until she forbade them. Then I started wandering over to them at the library and reading them....And they were horrible and horrifying. At some point I realized how bad they were for me and stopped reading them, but I never responded well to forbiddings. I did respond well to book lists to pick and choose from tho.

The Sweet Valley High and Babysitter's Club books never did much for me, although I did read a few of the Babysitter's Clubs, because I felt they were an icon of the elementary experience that I should not miss. I decided I could miss them, unless I was waiting at Walmart with nothing else to read while waiting for my folks. I was also not interested in comic books, tho Sandman is some fine literature. Go Niel Gaimen! I think Good Omens is the funniest book ever written. I did read a lot of pap though, along with all the award winners and other great books. I was always kinda drawn to the teen angst young adults books. Still am. It's a flaw. Some of them are really pretty good though. I like Chris Crutcher and Bruce Brooks. Of course, they're for the older kid, not a seven yr old. Also glad I'm not the only one who liked Anastasia (not that she's pap).

I wonder that nobody has suggested Ender's Game and other Orson Scott Card books yet? I think they are the quintessential gifted kids books.

[loraxc]

In regards to censorship, I'm all for promoting good books via booklists, bringing home books from library for dc, etc, but I am against censorship.

I also am of this frame of mind. I was another early and voracious reader. My parents did not censor, although I think I instinctively hid the V.C. Andrews books I got out from the library. :lol They did, however, direct and suggest, and not coincidentally, our house was also full of interesting, quality books, most of which I at least attempted. (I didn't get far with The Naked and The Dead, or with As I Lay Dying...:lol ) Some of them had mildly questionable content, I suppose, but it really didn't have much effect on me.

[Cinder]

Whoa! I'm so glad to see this forum!

My dd (now 7) learned to read (self-taught) when she was 4. She read _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone_ when she was 5. She currently reads, comprehends and discusses on about a 7th grade level. She reads voraciously.

I'm finding there are issues unique to gifted readers. Censorship, for one. For example, there are themes that are appropriate for 12 year olds that just aren't ok for asychronous 7 year olds.

She is also discovering that her age group peers haven't read the books she's read, and they aren't even remotely interested in discussing them. And it turns out, neither are most adults. Through her love of literature, she is discovering the things that make her different.

As a parent, I am met with incredulity and disbelief at every turn. Last year I hit a wall and I asked one of the head librarians for guidance on choosing books. She said that while C might be reading books that far above her reading level, she certainly isn't comprehending them. She suggested _The Magic Treehouse_ series. C read every one of those when she was 4.

Talk to me, folks. This is a huge, multinational board. Surely someone knows where I'm coming from!

I think this really depends. My DD is not nearly that advanced, but she taught herself to read this year (at 3) and is reading kid books now, like dr. seuss, bernstein bears, etc.

But, a very close friend to the family was reading at a 10th grade level at 5 years old. And she understood everything she read. But, with that said, even though she was reading at a 10th grade level, and comprehending at a 10th grade level, she didn't have 10th grade interests, so those books were really really boring for her... It was hard to find her books she liked and didn't read in like 10 minutes... I don't have any suggestions though, as her parents/teachers never figured anything out, and now she is a 15 year old and a senior in high school.

[GalateaDunkel]

My parents didn't censor. In elementary school my favorite authors were Stephen King and Judith Krantz! I don't think the "inappropriate" content did me any lasting harm, but I really wish they had censored for literary quality. Of course that is a big job because it requires making positive suggestions, not just saying "no", in order to keep up with a rapid and voracious reader.

I am interested in the concept I have heard from many conservative Christian homeschoolers of using nineteenth century literature (not necessarily just famous classics, but the general run of books that would have been available at that time) which combines high literary quality with wholesome topics. I wonder how interesting some of it would really be to a modern child, though. And I find that much 18th and 19th century literature goes over the top with pretentious rhetorical and syntactical complexity, which is not necessarily what I mean by "literary quality." However, I do think that the dichotomy between "appropriate for children" and "appropriate for highly capable readers" is a false dilemma created by the misplaced values of contemporary society. There is definitely a market for literature that is both complex and "appropriate." It won't surprise me if we see a resurgence of that kind of thing in the coming generation as homeschooled children grow up and pursue literary careers.

[eilonwy]

I wonder that nobody has suggested Ender's Game and other Orson Scott Card books yet? I think they are the quintessential gifted kids books.

:lol I'm sure I mentioned it on one of the other threads; I'm of the opinion that every gifted child should read Ender's Game, just for the satisfaction of knowing that there are adults out there who know how it feels to be gifted. Seventh Son, as well, though it's sequels are less child-friendly. :thumb

[NoHiddenFees]

I am interested in the concept I have heard from many conservative Christian homeschoolers of using nineteenth century literature (not necessarily just famous classics, but the general run of books that would have been available at that time) which combines high literary quality with wholesome topics. I wonder how interesting some of it would really be to a modern child, though. And I find that much 18th and 19th century literature goes over the top with pretentious rhetorical and syntactical complexity, which is not necessarily what I mean by "literary quality."Though not conservative or Christian, we did a lot of real aloud from this category (mostly late 19th/early 20th century), primarily culled from Ambleside (http://www.amblesideonline.org/) and similar sites.: E. Nesbit; the Lang coloured Fairy Books; James Baldwin; Victorian fairy tales; Wonder Clock; Heidi; A Wonder Book and The Tanglewood Tales; there are a few more, and we still have a shelf to go through. DD1 is intrigued by the complexity of language, but we carefully choose works that are a pleasure to read and hear. Water Babies got jettisoned pretty quickly (I know some love it, but it just wasn't up DD1's alley). DD loves the Fairy Books in particular and is reading through them on her own now. They (and the Bible) were the only literature available in the house of a good friend of mine when she was a girl and she still fondly remembers them today, thousands of books later.

We do lots of modern books too.

However, I do think that the dichotomy between "appropriate for children" and "appropriate for highly capable readers" is a false dilemma created by the misplaced values of contemporary society. There is definitely a market for literature that is both complex and "appropriate."I wonder if this is more true in the US than Britain? We have found many British books and series suitable for DD1 in what is called the "middle reader" category in the US.

[eilonwy]

My parents didn't censor. In elementary school my favorite authors were Stephen King and Judith Krantz! I don't think the "inappropriate" content did me any lasting harm, but I really wish they had censored for literary quality.

Maybe the difference for me was that 90% of the books in the house were, in fact, literate; it's one of the advantages to having grown up with a mother who was also a voracious reader and had learned to read very, very early. She'd probably read more than enough crap to recognize the good stuff when she saw it, so the books that she was willing to spend money on had to be decent. There were thousands of books in the apartment growing up (seriously; I've been in smaller libraries) and the overwhelming majority of them were very well written. We were poor, and my mother didn't have money to spend on :censored. :lol

I am interested in the concept I have heard from many conservative Christian homeschoolers of using nineteenth century literature (not necessarily just famous classics, but the general run of books that would have been available at that time) which combines high literary quality with wholesome topics. I wonder how interesting some of it would really be to a modern child, though.

In my opinion there's a reason that classics are "classic;" they're the good ones. I wouldn't hand my child a book just because it was old; it could still be complete and utter :censored. Moreover, the values espoused by the most prolific 19th century writers are not my own, nor are they values I particularly desire to impart to my children (i.e. children should be seen and not heard, children should "obey" adults unquestioningly, etc).

However, I do think that the dichotomy between "appropriate for children" and "appropriate for highly capable readers" is a false dilemma created by the misplaced values of contemporary society. There is definitely a market for literature that is both complex and "appropriate." It won't surprise me if we see a resurgence of that kind of thing in the coming generation as homeschooled children grow up and pursue literary careers.

I don't believe that it is a false dichotomy, though there is considerable overlap. Then again, while I'm not a fan of the values of contemporary society, I don't believe that old-school values are generally beneficial, so I don't think that a return to "classic" values is what's in order.

[GalateaDunkel]

I wonder if this is more true in the US than Britain? We have found many British books and series suitable for DD1 in what is called the "middle reader" category in the US.

Hmm...actually by appropriate for advanced readers, I basically meant an adult level of discourse (or in the case of older books, a level which even many contemporary adults would have trouble with) - by the time I was 7 or 8, I was bored stiff by any non-adult prose. I guess I was referencing not so much the varying quality of "children's literature" in different eras, but to the fact that the farther back you go, the more non-age-graded literature you will find that is not inappropriate for children.

Maybe the difference for me was that 90% of the books in the house were, in fact, literate; it's one of the advantages to having grown up with a mother who was also a voracious reader and had learned to read very, very early.

I also grew up in a house full of good books, but there was no expectation that I would prefer their offerings to the public library's. I guess my parents had reasons of their own for not enforcing quality, but it wasn't that they weren't "literate" themselves. Thanks, though. :irked:

In my opinion there's a reason that classics are "classic;" they're the good ones.

This assumes that the choices that the educational and cultural powers that be make of what to preserve and promote are inherently trustworthy. As my research into various topics of personal interest has carried me further back in publishing history, I have found very little evidence that this assumption is sound. Many of the most useful and edifying books I have read are either only available in their original printings, or at best have not been reprinted more recently than World War II.

[ElenTikvah]

a long time ago, and many not so long ago! :P

This is small list of the books that I devoured as a young reader, who kept her mama hopping to find more books for me to read... Notice, I am a Christian, so some of these are written for this demographic.

OK, animal books...
Misty of Chincoteague; Stormy: Misty's Foal; Sea Star: Orphan of Chincoteague; King of the Wind; Justin Morgan Had A Horse; Black Gold; Born to Trot ... basically anything by Marguerite Henry.

Jim Kjelgaard writes some great adventure books...Big Red, Irish Red, Outlaw Red, and many others.

Albert Payson Terhune's dog books are excellent...Lad of Sunnybank was the first one that I read.

Walter Farley's horse books were fun...starting, of course with The Black Stallion.

Would definately recommend the James Herriot books. :)

Biographies

Sower Series is spectacular, especially for younger readers. http://www.mottmedia.com/sower.html

Just good reading...

The Little House books, of course
Chronicles of Narnia
The Lord of the Rings, and The Hobbit
anything by Gene Stratton-Porter (Girl of the Limberlost, Freckles, Keeper of the Bees, etc)
The Mandie Books by Lois Gladys Leppard (Mandie and the Secret Tunnel, Mandie and the Cherokee Legend, Mandie and the Ghost Bandits, etc, this series is very long, but the books are short and fun to read.)
anything by Gilbert Morris, especially the Winslow series (Honorable Imposter, Captive Bride, Indentured Heart, etc, these a good historical fiction that brought history to life for this reader!) Also, try the Barney Buck series, a wacky, RIDICULOUS...but hillarious series to read, these are more oriented toward children but laugh-ou-loud FUNNY for adults, first one is Barney Buck and the Bucks of Goober Holler.

Oh, just a couple of older titles...
The Elsie Dinsmore Series by Martha Finley...similar to Louisa May Alcott's books, but not as well known.

G.A. Henty adventure books, written in the 1800's, it was said (at one time), if you read all of Henty's books, your knowledge of history would be complete.

ok, I've run out of ideas...if you have more specific questions regarding any of these, but feel free to PM me. :)

~Tik

[Fiestabeth]

My dd is also 7 and a voracious reader. She has recently read all of my Nancy Drew books, and all 12 of the Lemony Snicket series, The Anybodies, which she particularly enjoyed, and Matilda by Roald Dahl. I have only allowed her to read the first Harry Potter book, and will probably let her read the 2nd and 3rd installments in the next few months. I'm not even sure why I haven't let her. I have read them all, but I thought the 4th one got pretty intense. She's been begging, though, so we shall see.

I have a stash that I am going to give her soon, including my old favorite classics - the Little House books, Little Women, and the Anne of Green Gables set. I would also recommend the Redwall series by Brian Jacques. They are animal fantasy stories that I really enjoyed as a girl.

Mikaela also really loves the American Girl books, and reads them over and over, even though they are getting to be below her reading level. She also still loves to be read to, and we have been getting poetry compilations at the library and reading aloud as a family.

We had the exact same recommendation of the Magic Treehouse series, and when I checked them out I thought, "You've got to be kidding!" :rolleyes

[eilonwy]

I also grew up in a house full of good books, but there was no expectation that I would prefer their offerings to the public library's. I guess my parents had reasons of their own for not enforcing quality, but it wasn't that they weren't "literate" themselves. Thanks, though. :irked:

Good grief, that wasn't what I was saying at all. :eyesroll

I didn't go to the library on my own much before I was 9 years old. By that time, I already had a taste for decent literature, because that's what I was exposed to at home. That was the only point I was trying to make, but if you want to be offended by something, I'm sure you can find a way.

This assumes that the choices that the educational and cultural powers that be make of what to preserve and promote are inherently trustworthy. As my research into various topics of personal interest has carried me further back in publishing history, I have found very little evidence that this assumption is sound. Many of the most useful and edifying books I have read are either only available in their original printings, or at best have not been reprinted more recently than World War II.

:shrug I'll take your word for it. You've probably read more of them than I have.

[NoHiddenFees]

Hmm...actually by appropriate for advanced readers, I basically meant an adult level of discourse (or in the case of older books, a level which even many contemporary adults would have trouble with) - by the time I was 7 or 8, I was bored stiff by any non-adult prose. I guess I was referencing not so much the varying quality of "children's literature" in different eras, but to the fact that the farther back you go, the more non-age-graded literature you will find that is not inappropriate for children.There is a fair bit of contemporary non fiction that meets this criteria. However, children's fiction ain't what it used to be: There are many rich and complex middle readers and YA works available. For example, both DH and myself enjoyed Sea of Trolls by Nancy Farmer (YA) and Montmorency (and sequels) by Eleanor Updale (middle grade). OK, so they're not David Foster Wallace, but they're still good. I doubt we're going to see a resurgence of adult prose appropriate for children outside the realm of genre (SF, mystery, etc.) because we've moved so far from "appropriate" materials that relatively innocent works once written for adults, like much of John Masefield's work, are now considered to be children's books.

[loraxc]

However, children's fiction ain't what it used to be: There are many rich and complex middle readers and YA works available. For example, both DH and myself enjoyed Sea of Trolls by Nancy Farmer (YA) and Montmorency (and sequels) by Eleanor Updale (middle grade). OK, so they're not David Foster Wallace, but they're still good.

As the child of a very devoted children's librarian :wink , I have to agree with this. I would have a hard time believing that a child of 7 or 8, no matter how gifted, wouldn't find ANYthing worth reading in a good children's library of today, unless he/she was interested only in nonfiction. Although I was capable of reading adult-level books by 7 or 8 (that's about when I read Huck Finn, whose content went straight over my head, as another poster mentioned happened to her....) I was also quite easily captivated by many quality children's books, even some "easy" ones, and would be even more so by the fine selection today. YA books, in particular, have made GREAT strides since I was forlornly and confusedly picking my way through them at 9 or so.

[lisac77]

How about The Dark is Rising series by Susan Cooper? I love these books to this day. I also second the Helen Cresswell books. I loved them all when I was a "precocious reader!"

[eilonwy]

When I was little, I remember looking through YA books and not really caring for them. The majority of them seemed to be about relationships and getting your period and vapid, giggling girls, and they really irritated me. I went back to the YA section when I was older (13-15) and managed to find a half dozen decent books, but the rest of the library really felt like a better use of my time. :shrug Maybe the YA department of the library where I grew up was particularly sucky, but Lois Duncan falls well into the realm of :censored, as far as I'm concerned.

[loraxc]

I know you're a fairly young mama, Rynna, but even since then, YA books have improved a great deal. :) I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. As always, though, a good librarian is a great help...

[Sepia]

I'm finding there are issues unique to gifted readers. Censorship, for one. For example, there are themes that are appropriate for 12 year olds that just aren't ok for asychronous 7 year olds.


I experienced this as a child--my mom fighting to convince the librarian to let me check out "B is for Betsy" when I was 4 :lol

I dont' do a whole lot of censorship with my kids as far as books go ( i do with movies and tv)
I did take away The Hobbit from my then 5 yr old because he was getting so frustrated with it. He got it back a year later.
I suppose I intervene if I see that a book is causing problems for my child.

[Jenifer76]

My son is a precocious reader. He was diagnosed with hyperlexia at 3.5 years old. He self-taught himself to read and at the time of testing he was reading at a second grade level. We had him tested not because I thought he was advanced but because he was having gross and fine motor skill issues. Apparently, the two issues (motor skill delay and early reading) can sometimes go together -- some little quirky brain wiring issue.

[BamBam'sMom]

I usually picked all my own books growing up. I would just look around at the library and pick out whatever looked interesting to me. If I ended up disliking it, I would just put it down.

A precocious reader is probably capable of picking books he or she will enjoy. I think too much focus on staying at the proper reading level can turn reading into a chore rather than a source of enjoyment.

[eilonwy]

My son is a precocious reader. He was diagnosed with hyperlexia at 3.5 years old. He self-taught himself to read and at the time of testing he was reading at a second grade level. We had him tested not because I thought he was advanced but because he was having gross and fine motor skill issues. Apparently, the two issues (motor skill delay and early reading) can sometimes go together -- some little quirky brain wiring issue.

My niece is hyperlexic as well-- now, at 6, she's reading out loud with expression and comprehension. :thumb It's taken her a while, though. We're pretty sure that she taught herself to read before she learned to speak meaningfully, because when she started talking it became apparent that she could read. :scratch Our best theory is that she learned from Between the Lions. :lol

At any rate-- I read very young, but I wasn't hyperlexic; I always understood what I was reading. I think that there's a difference between most precocious readers and hyperlexic readers, though of course there will be some overlaping of issues.

[Terabith]

Good grief, what on earth could a librarian find offensive about B is for Betsy??? I mean, above the reading level of most four yr olds, but certainly nothing remotely inappropriate. Sheesh.

My mom was a devoted children's librarian, and I agree that great strides have been made. The YA section has a lot of pap but also a lot of really high quality literature, as does the children's section. A good book is a good book, whether its target audience is kids or adults. Many many kids books that I find edifying and enjoyable as an adult, even though certainly well below my reading level. Not everything need be challenging! (Or, rather, books can be challenging in different ways.)

[mom2ponygirl]

Couple you might have missed - The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge - very sophisticated language, but nice plot for youngster. My dd read that it was JK Rowlings favorite book growing up so she had to read it.
Also just read The White Horse Talisman (author escapes me right now) which is the start of a series of 4 books. The first was a quick read, nothing alarming in the plot and I would think the rest would be similar.

[RubyV]

Another Precocious/Voracious reader checking in.

I highly recommend the Wise Child books. Absolutely wonderful.

CAtherine, called Birdy

When I Was Puerto Rican

How the Garcia Girls lost their accents

Eight cousins

Witch of Blackbird Pond

Julie of the Wolves

I loved Poe and Hawthorne, reading everything I could get my hands on by age 8.

These are all books I've recommended to parents of precocious readers. Some can be intense (Witch of Blackbird pone and Julie of the wolves), but I'd still recommend them. When I was puerto rican deals with issues of racism.

[Cloverlove]

I haven't read them yet, but lately ds has been very into the Alex Rider Series by Anthony Horowitz. They seem targeted towards 9-15+ boys- lots of action/adventure and cool gadgets. It is a British series and apparently soon to be a "major motion picture". ;) Sounds kind-of like James Bond for preteens.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/014240165X/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/002-3281569-0508008?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books