Who are the gifted experts here?

[boongirl]

I would like to ask if anyone participating in this forum is an expert in the field of gifted education or has any expertise in the field. Expertise is defined, in my book and on dictionary.com, as any experience and/or training in the field. So, anyone who has any experience and/or training in the field is an expert.

So, who are the experts?

I was a gifted child all through elementary school.

As an adult, I have an MEd in elementary education and have taught gifted kids in various ways for 10 years. In one district, I was the gifted program teacher representative on the gifted program review committee and I spent the better part of a school year reading anything and everything we could get our hands on to help us understand how to best identify and teach gifted elementary students. I am also the parent of a very smart 3.5 year old who I would not yet call gifted. But, she does share many of the characteristics of gifted kids. I would not identify her as gifted yet because parents are not the best at identifying their own children. I will wait for her to enter school before testing is mentioned.

I would not consider myself an major expert but I am highly knowledgeable and experienced in the field of gifted education.




From dictionary.com

expert

adj

Having, involving, or demonstrating great skill, dexterity, or knowledge as the result of experience or training.

[Charles Baudelaire]

I've been a schoolteacher for 11 years with an M.A. in English and have had a good share of gifted students. I may be gifted myself, or may just have serious problems working and playing with my peers. I've taken several classes toward endorsement in gifted ed., but in the interests of full disclosure, they've all been utterly useless. I'm a parent of a probably gifted child and have done years' worth of what amounts to independent reading and study in the area.

Oh, and I'm in a U.S. state that makes Qatar look like the Amazon rainforest.

I would like to ask if anyone participating in this forum is an expert in the field of gifted education or has any expertise in the field. It would help me to understand better how to take your posts. For example, if you are a professor of psychology with gifted children as your area of expertise, I would question your statements far less than if you were simply a mother of a gifted child. I know you are all probably in the middle of those extremes, as am I, but it helps to clarify one's expertise in a discussion.

I was a gifted child all through elementary school.

As an adult, I have an MEd in elementary education and have taught gifted kids in various ways for 10 years. In one district, I was the gifted program teacher representative on the gifted program review committee and I spent the better part of a school year reading anything and everything we could get our hands on to help us understand how to best identify and teach gifted elementary students. I am also the parent of a very smart 3.5 year old who I would not yet call gifted. But, she does share many of the characteristics of gifted kids. I would not identify her as gifted yet because parents are not the best at identifying their own children. I will wait for her to enter school before testing is mentioned.

I would not consider myself an expert but I am highly knowledgeable and experienced in the field of gifted education.

So, what is your expertise in the field?


And, where are you in the world? I am in WA state USA.

[LiamnEmma]

Not sure I'd call myself an expert. I am the identifier of gifted children within my district, I am the parent of a gifted child and I am a gifted survivor of public schools. :lol

oops, and I'm in the U.S.

[alegna]

I don't know if I'd call myself an expert, but I am highly educated on gifted ed and gifted issues. I was a teacher endorsed to teach gifted. I taught in a gifted program in public schools, at a gifted private school and at a special needs private school that included gifted (I was the resident go-to person for gifted)

-Angela

[eilonwy]

:shy I just read a lot. I'm a freaky person from an extremely freaky (and, I'm told, impossible) family. I have no certification to do anything useful at all, and nobody will pay me more than minimum wage to do anything, so I suppose I can't call myself "an expert," just a geek. :lol

That said, I'm often mistaken for an expert in various fields by professionals in said fields, particularly medical and educational. People who meet me in the ER are very surprised to learn that I've never been to nursing school, and the last time I spoke (in person) with people who worked with gifted children, they were quite surprised and disheartened to learn that I was only a layperson. :p :lol

[teachma]

Another non-expert with some sort-of credentials to attest to the validity of my contributions...I have been an elementary level teacher (2nd, 3rd and now 4th graders) for the last 9 years. I currently teach in a school without any formal gifted program and usually wind up with all the gifted children in my class because I can supposedly best "relate to them." I possess a Master's degree an education-related subject, have two gifted siblings and possibly a gifted 6 year old son and a so-far advanced 2.5 year old daughter. Mostly, this topic interests me, and my son has had some of the very typical struggles of gifted kids in social settings and life in general despite his being on the lower end of the gifted spectrum (according to the tests, anyway). At best, my posts will contain anecdotal evidence based on our lives and the lives of my students over the years.

[Rivka5]

I'm a psychologist who has lots of experience with IQ tests - their administration, interpretation, and clinical use. I don't have any special expertise with giftedness, but I know quite a bit about the subtleties of IQ (e.g., history of testing, questions of bias, abilities measured, comparisons between tests).

[boongirl]

Oh great! Such variety! That will make discussions really interesting. :thumb

[alegna]

One of my pet areas is dually labeled kids- g/t+ld or the like. Worked with quite a few. Fought to identify a couple.

-Angela

[boongirl]

One of my pet areas is dually labeled kids- g/t+ld or the like. Worked with quite a few.

That sounds interesting. I've had a few come my way as a result of special ed testing.

I would say my pet area is behavior problem kids. I really good at working with gifted kids other teachers find difficult to manage. I have a special spot in my heart for really angry, argumentative gifted boys.

[alegna]

I would say my pet area is behavior problem kids. I really good at working with gifted kids other teachers find difficult to manage. I have a special spot in my heart for really angry, argumentative gifted boys.

yeah, me too :innocent the ones that the other teachers HATE and say so... one of my favorites mooned another teacher.... well... she DID deserve it.... :wink

-Angela

[boongirl]

yeah, me too :innocent the ones that the other teachers HATE and say so... one of my favorites mooned another teacher.... well... she DID deserve it.... :wink

-Angela

Hee, hee! I've known a few who deserved it, too. I had one child for two years in a row (4th and 5th). His third grade teacher used to keep him from recess so often, due to anger, that he once was inside for recess 6 weeks in a row! How in the world she thought that was going to help is beyond me.

[teachma]

I have a special spot in my heart for really angry, argumentative gifted boys.

I appreciate students like this in my class, too, but have an extraordinary, head-butting time with my similarly-described son...:( Live anywhere near CT, boongirl??

[boongirl]

It is one thing to have them for 6 hours a day, and a whole other thing to have them for the other 18 hours of the day, isn't it? :wink

[meemee]

what surprised me most as to who the actual 'experts' were when attending a conference were parents who had been fighting the system to get services for their child rather than the experts themselves. i have come across many 'educational experts' who went by the book rather than the individual and had no clue what to do with the child.

it is such a huge field with so many issues that i have learnt to trust moms with gifted issues than the experts themselves (sorry dont mean to 'insult' any expert moms on this site. i am not talking about you guys here). and i am not talking about definition. but rather the issues i need to look out for.

[boongirl]

I think the professional experts, as opposed to the parent experts, sometimes get a bit, or a lot, tired by all the beaurocracy and paperwork and financial limitations and all the rest of the poop that comes with teaching today. I find a lot of teachers are stuck in their mode, out of convenience or out of just plain ole being tired. It is not our fault; the system can, at times, be completely draining of all energy and inspiration. Not a good excuse, but just wanted to add my two cents. I know that if my child had not been born when she was, giving me a convenient excuse to take a few years off, I probably would have changed professions. I was that fed up with my school district.

[LiamnEmma]

what surprised me most as to who the actual 'experts' were when attending a conference were parents who had been fighting the system to get services for their child rather than the experts themselves. i have come across many 'educational experts' who went by the book rather than the individual and had no clue what to do with the child.

it is such a huge field with so many issues that i have learnt to trust moms with gifted issues than the experts themselves (sorry dont mean to 'insult' any expert moms on this site. i am not talking about you guys here). and i am not talking about definition. but rather the issues i need to look out for.

I agree with you meemee. And I'd say just about any topic is this way when a person has first hand experience with it, kwim? My children and my experiences with them and through them have informed me more than almost any other life experiences...I know more than I ever thought I would about vision, kidneys, bladders, giftedness, fertility, blah blah blah. :lol

[LeftField]

it is such a huge field with so many issues that i have learnt to trust moms with gifted issues than the experts themselves (sorry dont mean to 'insult' any expert moms on this site. i am not talking about you guys here). and i am not talking about definition. but rather the issues i need to look out for.

me too. :innocent And IMHO, the framework of school influences many things and these are issues that we shouldn't face with homeschooling. Someone mentioned gifted kids being frequently bored and complaining about it. In school, I could see that because they often are sitting through the same stuff they learned a long time ago. But at home, boredom is not an issue. One of my early clues for both my kids was their long attention span for even simple things. They are very focused on whatever they're doing. And they find opportunities for play in the strangest things. They are very enterprising and creative and honestly, are almost never bored.

Someone also mentioned about gifted kids going through material very quickly and being loathe to spend any amount of serious time on something. In school, I could see that because they often learn that they can just zip through stuff, because the stuff is not challenging. But at home, with the absence of upper limits or time constructs, my kids are very slow and attentive to what they do. They don't want to move on. Actually, one of my relatives in public school almost failed the GATE achievement test because she was not prone to zipping; she was so detail-oriented and careful that she nearly failed the test simply on time limits.

I am really really appreciative that we have gifted experts among us, people who have seen countless gifted children. This is all very new to me. I have no experience with gifted labels and school programs. I sincerely appreciate the extensive experience of others.

But at the same time, I've read a lot and I know my kids. And some of the school stuff does not apply to them, since they've not learned to zip through tasks and to underachieve. I am excited about having so many people with g experience, but I'm also very grateful to the Moms that have enlightened me and supported me in the past. Just a couple of thoughts...

[alegna]

Interesting points. I have know parents who were GREAT advocates for their kids and some who really didn't know what was going on (they were good parents, they just didn't understand all the issues) I agree that the "experts" get burned out. G/T is not a PC field to be in these days. The system doesn't like you. A great number of the parents don't like you. The administrators don't like you. And the other teachers hate you.

I'm not sorry that I'm out of that "business"

-Angela

[boongirl]

Just a quick note to say that this thread was not meant as a symposium to discuss who is worthy of being an expert or not. The idea of it was simply to understand each other's experience with gifted kids so we no longer have to write "as a teacher/parent/whatever with _____ years experience." We will now, between the active posters, recognize each other's expertise.

So, regardless of where that expertise came from, please let us know about you. But, please don't defend or criticize the worthiness of anyone's expertise. We are all worthy.

[teachma]

Just a quick note to say that this thread was not meant as a symposium to discuss who is worthy of being an expert or not. The idea of it was simply to understand each other's experience with gifted kids so we no longer have to write "as a teacher/parent/whatever with _____ years experience." We will now, between the active posters, recognize each other's expertise.

So, regardless of where that expertise came from, please let us know about you. But, please don't defend or criticize the worthiness of anyone's expertise. We are all worthy.

Nice disclaimer. This is the way I interpreted your original post.

[LiamnEmma]

I would like to ask if anyone participating in this forum is an expert in the field of gifted education or has any expertise in the field. It would help me to understand better how to take your posts. For example, if you are a professor of psychology with gifted children as your area of expertise, I would question your statements far less than if you were simply a mother of a gifted child. However, this does imply that some are more "worthy" than others in your viewpoint, which is fine, we all have our own filters, however, it begins the thread in a way suggesting that people who are "simply" mothers and not actual "experts" will not be taken seriously and will therefore be denied credit and validation, and sets up a situation wherein people will take issue with it.

[alegna]

Just a quick note to say that this thread was not meant as a symposium to discuss who is worthy of being an expert or not. The idea of it was simply to understand each other's experience with gifted kids so we no longer have to write "as a teacher/parent/whatever with _____ years experience." We will now, between the active posters, recognize each other's expertise.

So, regardless of where that expertise came from, please let us know about you. But, please don't defend or criticize the worthiness of anyone's expertise. We are all worthy.

Just to clarify- I didn't mean to belittle anyone's experience... :innocent just sharing mine.

Lots of well-researched mom's here- both officially- on paper, and not.

-Angela

[Roar]

However, this does imply that some are more "worthy" than others in your viewpoint, which is fine, we all have our own filters, however, it begins the thread in a way suggesting that people who are "simply" mothers and not actual "experts" will not be taken seriously and will therefore be denied credit and validation, and sets up a situation wherein people will take issue with it.

Yes, the "simply" was it. And also let's note for a minute this is cyber space where we don't know for a fact that anyone is who they claim to me or that if we met them in real life we'd have an ounce of respect for them. Claiming to be an "expert" through cyber space does nothing for me personally. I'm far more interested in how well you can express and support your ideas.

[lucysmom]

I may be gifted myself, or may just have serious problems working and playing with my peers.

laughup

[meemee]

However, this does imply that some are more "worthy" than others in your viewpoint, which is fine, we all have our own filters, however, it begins the thread in a way suggesting that people who are "simply" mothers and not actual "experts" will not be taken seriously and will therefore be denied credit and validation, and sets up a situation wherein people will take issue with it.

hey liamnemma you know i think what boongirl has is a good idea. who are the professionals here. just in case any of us have any questions or second opinions we have experts amongst us to refer to. heck i think i might need it next year if my dd and i have a terrible year and the school psychologist tries to shove ADD down my throat. i mean us moms are here... i totally get that who will be great guides for all of us.... but its good to know who the trained professionals are to figure out red tape. hope this makes sense.

heck right now i would love to hear from a mom who is an OT with knowledge of SIDS/SPD. or a special ed K teacher. kwim?

i think she is trying to make a sticky out of this so we have it for ready reference.

[LiamnEmma]

meemee, I have no issue with identifying oneself. Click on my profile and you'll see that I've identified myself. Maybe you have done that already, who knows? But my point at that moment was to show that in the originating post there was an implication that a person who is a parent and not actually having received formal education in the arena of gifted will not be taken seriously by nature of being questioned more strenuously. To whit; For example, if you are a professor of psychology with gifted children as your area of expertise, I would question your statements far less than if you were simply a mother of a gifted child. However, when people who are "simply" mothers later point out that they are some level of expertise based on their own research, the initial statement is then contradicted by saying, ...this thread was not meant as a symposium to discuss who is worthy of being an expert or not.

I know, I know, when chatting online, one does not always think through prior to typing...but lots of us do and sometimes, when we don't think our thoughts through first, we run the risk of later finding ourselves in situations wherein we have appeared to be less than humble and accepting of others.

My other issue with the initial statement is that in my honest opinion, it runs contrary to what many parents (including myself) of gifted children continually say by (likely inadvertently) implying that divergence is not tolerated, that a person who learns on his or her own is somehow not as worthy of acceptance, esteem and respect. Yet, how many of us have learned tons of information on our own about something and often know more than a person who has supposedly been "educated"? For example, just because I identify giftedness for a living does not mean I'm an expert. It means I'm really really good at administering standardized tests. I think I know a thing or two, but as I said earlier, having a gifted child living in my home with a non-gifted child has informed me far more than a decade of testing did--or maybe it was the two things in combination. Who knows for sure?

So, my rambling point is that while it can be great to have a spot where people are identifying why they are here--a role call of sorts--I don't think it is ultimately helpful to anyone to have a chest-thumping contest in terms of who has read more pages, written more papers, seen a bigger sample of gifted kids, you know? We all have worthwhile contributions to make, I think.

[meemee]

meemee, I have no issue with identifying oneself. Click on my profile and you'll see that I've identified myself.

oh mama do u have to make my life more miserable than it already is. now i have to click on profiles to find out the 'experts'. :wink :innocent

just so you know i am joking!!! just making sure.

but seriously i dont ever click on profiles because on many ocassions there is nothing there. :shrug but that's just me.

now will ya just stop and say you are a school psychologist instead of putting me to work. dont u think i have enough on my hands with my child!!!! :wink

[LiamnEmma]

now will ya just stop and say you are a school psychologist instead of putting me to work. dont u think i have enough on my hands with my child!!!! :) Because I don't think that makes me the end-all-be-all. I have loads to learn about tons of things and just because I happen to have been formally educated in one field area does not mean I have all the answers or should consider myself the resident expert on anything except my own household. And even then I primarily appear to be clueless. :o

And for whatever it's worth, I was also REALLY worried that when my ds hit school they'd try to shove an ADHD dx down our throats. Luckily they all see that he's gifted. They still seem to find him annoying, but at least they can differentiate. ;)

[LadyMarmalade]

Great posts, LiamnEmma. I totally agree (which is why I didn't post when this thread was started ;) ).

[LeftField]

:) Because I don't think that makes me the end-all-be-all. I have loads to learn about tons of things and just because I happen to have been formally educated in one field area does not mean I have all the answers or should consider myself the resident expert on anything except my own household.

Thank you! You hit on the nail on the head, wrt my personal objections. I realized this morning that I had an issue with the semantics. I think that if the thread had been titled, "Who has professional experience with gifted children?", I would have seen it in a completely different light. But I don't like the word "expert", just like I don't like the word "genius". "Expert" implies that someone knows everything or nearly everything about a subject. You can't argue or disagree with an expert, because, well, they're an expert and you're "simply the mother of a gifted child". I have no emotional investment in this btw, but this is how I see it with the current semantics. I know that I have disagreed with at least one of the people in this thread in the past, but it makes it sound like if a disagreement were to ensue again, that the other person's opinion carries much more weight because they are the expert in this forum.

I just have an issue with the semantics. Interestingly, many people rail against "gifted" too for similar reasons, that the word implies that the others do not possess something. "Gifted" makes it sound like one child has a gift and the others are giftless. But if I said "asynchronous development with advanced cognitive abilities in some areas", it's kind of hard to disagree with that, because it describes the gifted child well without negating the other children. Well, ok, someone would still take issue with that term...you can't please everyone, I suppose!

"Expert" is a loaded term, that's all. Also, like many (most?) of the MDC population, I have a tendency to question experts rather than defer to them. I've received bad advice from experts before. To be redundant, I think a more accurate title is, "who has professional experience with gifted children?".

[LiamnEmma]

Great posts, LiamnEmma. I totally agree (which is why I didn't post when this thread was started ). Yep, I'd guessed you were about up to here with annoyance. :lol

"Expert" is a loaded term, that's all. Also, like many (most?) of the MDC population, I have a tendency to question experts rather than defer to them. I've received bad advice from experts before. Yup, same here. I've always questionned authority, so why would I want to be that person? :thumb And thanks.

[boongirl]

So, my rambling point is that while it can be great to have a spot where people are identifying why they are here--a role call of sorts--I don't think it is ultimately helpful to anyone to have a chest-thumping contest in terms of who has read more pages, written more papers, seen a bigger sample of gifted kids, you know? We all have worthwhile contributions to make, I think.

Please don't take my initial post so personally. I have plenty of experience with parents who are the experts in knowing their own children to know that there is expertise in many places in this world and not just lurking behind college degrees. That being said, it is generally acknowledged that most (but not all) experts have some sort of education in their field. If your education is personal experience and you have read a lot and experienced a lot in a specific area, then you are probably qualified to be an expert in that field. But, that is different from being a parent who is an expert in knowing their own child.

To the rest of you who have a problem with the semantics beind the word "expert," I ask why you post here if you question expertise. Some of us find it interesting to know each other's background in the field of gifted education. If that is of no use to you, so be it. But, you do not need to denigrate our interest in each other's expertise.

[LeftField]

To the rest of you who have a problem with the semantics beind the word "expert," I ask why you post here if you question expertise.

Why not? :shrug I post in this forum, so that's how I stumbled onto this thread. Is this a support only thread? I come into this fledging forum and see a thread at the top asking who the gifted experts are here. There is no moderator or consensus in this forum (we can't even pull a sticky together that everyone agrees on) and so it seemed to me that some sort of authority was trying to be asserted, like picking team captains or something like that.


Some of us find it interesting to know each other's background in the field of gifted education. If that is of no use to you, so be it. But, you do not need to denigrate our interest in each other's expertise.

Actually, I also find it interesting that some of you have a background in the field of gifted education. I really do. But I contest the word, "expert" which generally implies that the person knows nearly everything on a subject. It infers a hierarchy, such that the expert's opinions carry more weight than others. Also, we all are faceless, nameless people on the Internet who could be anyone at all. Additionally, your professional experience as an educator of gifted students may not be particularly relevant to specific situations with a homeschooled gifted child. So, I'm just not seeing anyone here as an expert on gifted children. However, I see that some of you have years of professional experience with gifted children; that is completely different from being an "expert". I think it's wonderful that we have your resources and experience to diversify this forum, but I wouldn't consider to automatically carry more weight than the experience of anyone else.

[boongirl]

However, this does imply that some are more "worthy" than others in your viewpoint, which is fine, we all have our own filters, however, it begins the thread in a way suggesting that people who are "simply" mothers and not actual "experts" will not be taken seriously and will therefore be denied credit and validation, and sets up a situation wherein people will take issue with it.

I think it would be a good idea if you checked your own personal filter. You are making a mountain out of a molehill, imo. There is no way to write a semantically loaded statement in a way that would please everyone. I truly meant that I would like to know who considers themselves to be a bit or a lot of an expert in the field of gifted education. If someone has a problem with that, then you are free to say so but that does not mean that I have to admit to doing something wrong nor do I have to make any changes to my initial statement. I find knowing people's areas of expertise and education and training very interesting.

When asking advice, I do not take everyone's advice equally, particularly when it comes from those I do not know. For example, I take every word the Charles Baudelaire says as impressively good and worthy and respect every thing she writes because I know her well enough now to understand her. She is one smart cookie when it comes to school and education related advice. If I asked a question in this forum and she answered it, I would probably take her advice immediately. But, if I asked a question in the health and healing forum about how to cure arthritis (for example) and she gave some advice, I would not necessarily do exactly what she writes without further research. For all I know, she knows nothing about arthritis and may not be giving me good advice so I would feel it necessary to do further research to make sure her advice is sound.

Also, there are many areas where I admit to knowing nothing and being far from an expert. If someone asked about hip hop, I know nothing. If someone asked about raising boys, I know little. If someone asked about religious education, I know next to nothing. If someone asked about raising a teenager, my advice would be weak. And, my advice in these topics would not be good because I am not anything close to being an expert in these areas. But, if someone asked me advice about raising a young girl, teaching in elementary school, or gifted education, I like to think that I know a thing or two in these areas that could benefit most people.

On the other hand, if someone in the health and healing forum wanted to chat about healing after chronic yeast issues, I have some experience to share. If someone wanted to discuss depression in the ppd forum, I have experience there. If someone wanted to discuss the TV shows Lost or Project Runway, I have something to add. I can clarify my expertise in a statement before adding my advice because I think that adds merit and weight to my advice and I like it when others do the same. I do not like it when people give advice that is not clarifed or supported, particularly when they are arguing a divergent point. If you want to argue a divergent point, then please clarify why you are doing so. I realize that there is a bit of irony in stating that in a forum for giftedness, but it is my opinion and I am entitled to it. One of the first realizations I made on my own about adults, which I made at age 7 or 8, is that they are not worthy of my respect until they have earned it. Same goes here. And, that is all my initial post meant.

And, I do not think I alone in wanting to know people before taking their advice without first double checking its merit. That is where knowing someone's worthiness as an expert comes into play. CB is an expert in this area. My friend who lurks here and never posts is not. And, she will not care if I write that because she would readily admit it.

When it comes to offering advice, I am sorry but we are all not equal. We are all worthy, once we clarify our worthiness, but we are not all equal.

That is just my two cents. Take it for what it is worth to you.

[teachma]

Also, there are many areas where I admit to knowing nothing and being far from an expert. If someone asked about hip hop, I know nothing. If someone asked about raising boys, I know little. If someone asked about religious education, I know next to nothing. If someone asked about raising a teenager, my advice would be weak. And, my advice in these topics would not be good because I am not anything close to being an expert in these areas. But, if someone asked me advice about raising a young girl, teaching in elementary school, or gifted education, I like to think that I know a thing or two in these areas that could benefit most people.

On the other hand, if someone in the health and healing forum wanted to chat about healing after chronic yeast issues, I have some experience to share. If someone wanted to discuss depression in the ppd forum, I have experience there. If someone wanted to discuss the TV shows Lost or Project Runway, I have something to add. I can clarify my expertise in a statement before adding my advice because I think that adds merit and weight to my advice and I like it when others do the same. I do not like it when people give advice that is not clarifed or supported, particularly when they are arguing a divergent point. If you want to argue a divergent point, then please clarify why you are doing so. I realize that there is a bit of irony in stating that in a forum for giftedness, but it is my opinion and I am entitled to it. One of the first realizations I made on my own about adults, which I made at age 7 or 8, is that they are not worthy of my respect until they have earned it. Same goes here. And, that is all my initial post meant.

So, your understanding of "expert," at least for the purposes of this thread you started, allows for one with experience and anecdotal evidence, but not necessarily formal training, to qualify herself?

[Roar]

When it comes to offering advice, I am sorry but we are all not equal. We are all worthy, once we clarify our worthiness, but we are not all equal.



For me personally claiming status as an "expert" or claiming to have particular training or professional experience in this kind of forum isn't particularly meaningful because

1. I have no idea if the person is who they claim to be. This is cyberspace where we really don't know if folks are who they say they are.

2. I have no idea if I knew the person in real life if I'd respect them. I've certainly met professionals and "experts" of all sorts that I didn't find to be particuarly intelligent, hard working or trustworthy.

3. If all you've got to rely on is a claim of expert status it sort of seems like a parent who says "because I'm the parent and I said so". What impresses me online is the ability to clearly articulate ideas and support a position with logic and good writing. That's what makes me think and that's what I'm looking for in an online discussion.

[LeftField]

I think it would be a good idea if you checked your own personal filter. You are making a mountain out of a molehill, imo. There is no way to write a semantically loaded statement in a way that would please everyone. I truly meant that I would like to know who considers themselves to be a bit or a lot of an expert in the field of gifted education. If someone has a problem with that, then you are free to say so but that does not mean that I have to admit to doing something wrong nor do I have to make any changes to my initial statement. I find knowing people's areas of expertise and education and training very interesting.


Ok, it's late here. I just finished watching the Hell's Kitchen finale and I thought I'd check my email before going to bed. I happened to see my Mothering thread subscription reminder...this may not be the most coherent post as I'm pretty zonked right now.

First, I don't think it's an issue with my personal filter, because I'm not the only person to come forward in this thread and take issue with the semantics of the OP. Second, I did not mean to offend you or hurt your feelings. It's really hard to read tone on the Internet, but it seems to me that my challenge of your word choice is offending you. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I really don't mean to offend. Third, as I've said, I also find other's experience very interesting. I'm not saying your intention in the OP was anything other than you have presented it in follow-up posts. I was just trying to explain how the word "expert" is a loaded word and IMHO a poor choice of words. Perhaps we just agree to disagree on this.


When it comes to offering advice, I am sorry but we are all not equal. We are all worthy, once we clarify our worthiness, but we are not all equal.


Sure, but who is to say that you're on the more qualified end of the spectrum in giving advice in this forum? You have named yourself as an expert, but that doesn't mean that you are one. For all I know, you are an unemployed truck driver doing some role-playing. Ok, joking...but only sort of...I'm not looking at your credentials IRL and I have no experience with your experience. Furthermore, I know of at least one RL teacher in a GATE program that I don't see as amazingly competent, based on personal experiences of someone very close to me IRL. If you are suggesting that you are more qualified to give advice on gifted issues, then I would assert that it's rather bold and possibly untrue. None of us have any way of knowing who the others are and what they are basing their statements on. I also love CB's posts, not because she's a teacher or has a gifted child or has professional experience with gifted children, but because she cites her sources and presents a logical and well-written argument. That's all. I basically evaluate people's advice on how well they write, if it jives with me and (most importantly) if they cite sound sources. You don't have to be a teacher to do that.

To clarify, I don't have any issues with you. I just disagree with your word choice and some of your statements (e.g. we are not all equal, etc). I know that I've disagreed with some things you've said in the past about gifted children based on things I've read and people I've known. But it's all good. I look forward to your future posts as I do everyone else's. But I'll be basing my opinions on the soundness of the posts, not people's jobs (if I can even remember them).

Again, this is nothing personal to me, nothing more than an interesting debate. It's all good.

[LiamnEmma]

Leftfield, just gently saying that I think boongirl was talking to me. :innocent

Boongirl, yes, I do believe there is a way to write a statement without loading it semantically. How about - "What is your experience with giftedness and do you consider yourself as having expertise in the field?" :shrug

[boongirl]

So, your understanding of "expert," at least for the purposes of this thread you started, allows for one with experience and anecdotal evidence, but not necessarily formal training, to qualify herself?


from dictionary.com

expert

adj

Having, involving, or demonstrating great skill, dexterity, or knowledge as the result of experience or training.

This is literally how I take it. Experience or training. Either or both.

And, going back to the original question in post #1, I am interested in the training and experience of others in the area of gifted education. Period. No need to get caught up on semantics. This is cut and dry people. I am just interested in your experience and training in the area. I listed mine. If you want to list yours, ok. Otherwise, I see no need for this thread to continue.

[LeftField]

Leftfield, just gently saying that I think boongirl was talking to me. :innocent


Whoops! :lol I'm looking for that smiley where the little guy ducks out of the room but my pop-up blocker is keeping me from accessing the full smiley list. Ah well. You get the idea. :-)

[Roar]

from dictionary.com

This is literally how I take it. Experience or training. Either or both.

Given you are citing your experience watching trash TV or having itchy yeast infections as expert status based on experience, then I guess everyone here is an "expert" as they are experienced as the parents of gifted children. (and that would be not be "simply" parents).

Otherwise, I see no need for this thread to continue.

Take this for what it is worth...but I'm guessing part of what was putting folks off was this kind of proclaiming on threads of what should happen on the board. People should talk this way, cite this but not that, that combined with declaring some people are "simply" parents seemed to be setting up a hierarchy.

[lckrause]

Take this for what it is worth...but I'm guessing part of what was putting folks off was this kind of proclaiming on threads of what should happen on the board. People should talk this way, cite this but not that, that combined with declaring some people are "simply" parents seemed to be setting up a hierarchy.

Yup. Perhaps you don't mean it that way, Kathy, but that's definitely one way to interpret some of the things you've said here thus far. I find I have to work on softening my tone sometimes when I write on message boards, so that I don't come off as sounding imperious when I'm really trying to be enthusiastic, sympathetic, and/or helpful.

[LiamnEmma]

Whoops! I'm looking for that smiley where the little guy ducks out of the room but my pop-up blocker is keeping me from accessing the full smiley list. Ah well. You get the idea. :-) :lol I'm apt to hit the reply button quickly. :lol

lckrause and roar, I agree. Boongirl, I'm going to hope this comes out in the spirit in which it is intended...

I think you have a wealth of knowledge to offer everybody, but your style of presentation is sometimes pushy. I struggle with this aspect of my personality and watch my ds struggle with it as well and suspect it goes with a certain level of intelligence. Your posts in this forum have suggested to me that you are the boss of us (to put it in ds' and dd's terms :lol) and as I'm sure you know, most people on this board question authority almost universally. By doing this you may be (I think inadvertently) decreasing your credibility and I think that's sad because as I said, I think you have a lot to offer. But so many posters have taken umbrage with the OP that I don't think it's us, kwim? Anyway, I hope I'm not being very very offensive, I'm trying to be gentle.

[boongirl]

I take a complete opposite approach to posting on this board. I appreciate the words of wisdom but I have learned to be responsible for my own feelings and not worry about the feelings of others. If I take offense to something someone says, I may write so but more often than not I just ignore it. It is my job to be responsible for my feelings, not yours. This is the internet and nothing I can do is going to guarantee that everyone is going to feel great about the words I type. There is no way to inject tone and manner into a typed conversation with a machine. If you all find my tone pushy, I am sorry. I am blunt and to the point and I don't mince with words. I say what I mean. Some people find that pushy; others find that refreshingly honest. It is not my responsibility to spend hours thinking about my words before I type them just so everyone will feel good about what I am saying and how I am saying it.

If you all got your feelings hurt by this thread, I am sorry. But, I really do believe that there are experts and there are novices in the world and I prefer to get advice from the former.

And, if I start a thread, I realize I don't own it but I do assume that I am the one who gets to name the tone of it. I started this thread wanting to know who had expertise working with gifted and I find it completely interesting that the mamas typing here who do not have expertise are the ones who are the most offended by my words. Take it for what you will, but I have learned a lot about who's opinion to respect and who's to take as anecdotal at best. That may be frightfully rude, but then again none of the last three posts was even remotely polite.

[eilonwy]

I take a complete opposite approach to posting on this board. I appreciate the words of wisdom but I have learned to be responsible for my own feelings and not worry about the feelings of others. If I take offense to something someone says, I may write so but more often than not I just ignore it. It is my job to be responsible for my feelings, not yours. This is the internet and nothing I can do is going to guarantee that everyone is going to feel great about the words I type. There is no way to inject tone and manner into a typed conversation with a machine. If you all find my tone pushy, I am sorry. I am blunt and to the point and I don't mince with words. I say what I mean. Some people find that pushy; others find that refreshingly honest. It is not my responsibility to spend hours thinking about my words before I type them just so everyone will feel good about what I am saying and how I am saying it.

If you all got your feelings hurt by this thread, I am sorry. But, I really do believe that there are experts and there are novices in the world and I prefer to get advice from the former.

And, if I start a thread, I realize I don't own it but I do assume that I am the one who gets to name the tone of it. I started this thread wanting to know who had expertise working with gifted and I find it completely interesting that the mamas typing here who do not have expertise are the ones who are the most offended by my words. Take it for what you will, but I have learned a lot about who's opinion to respect and who's to take as anecdotal at best. That may be frightfully rude, but then again none of the last three posts was even remotely polite.

Wow, for someone who takes responsibility for her feelings, you've got an awful lot of bile in this post.

Here are my questions:

1. Of course there are "novices" and "experts" in any given field, but as far as I've been able to ascertain, "expertise" means, to most people, a diploma in a field of study or a string of letters after a name. It doesn't say anything about actual knowledge, practical or otherwise. Are you saying that you tend to trust the advice of "experts" over "novices" because they have those bits of paper, or strings of letters?

2. If it's your job to be responsible for your feelings, then why assert at the end of your post that other posters are being rude to you? Surely it would be your choice to feel offended even when people are doing their very best to be polite and gentle (and even going out of their way to say as much).

3. You say that you've learned a lot about "who's opinion to respect and who's to take as anecdotal at best;" if this is indeed the case, then you should be able to tell just by reading posts whose opinion is worthy of your respect, should you not? Why do you need to ask who the experts are, then, if you already know which posts are worthy of your time and energy just by reading them?

[Roar]

Just a thought...I am guessing somewhere there are lists specifically for educators for gifted kids and forbid posts from "novices", people are "simply parents" and those without adequate "expertise" to qualify.

[eilonwy]

Just a thought...I am guessing somewhere there are lists specifically for educators for gifted kids and forbid posts from "novices", people are "simply parents" and those without adequate "expertise" to qualify.

What strikes me as most ironic about this is that the people who would know the most about gifted children (gifted children themselves, their parents, and gifted adults) would, more often than not, be excluded from such fora. Pretty screwy, if you ask me (not that anyone did ;)).

[lckrause]

If you all got your feelings hurt by this thread, I am sorry.

Hey, now. I can only speak for myself, but my feelings aren't hurt. I do think your wording can be read as pushy or bossy, and that's what I was saying. I think choice of words should be considered when posting on a message board. If I posted a thread titled "Who are the high IQ posters here?" or "So who has the most years of experience with their OWN gifted child?" those threads would probably be seen the same way yours was, as trying to set up some sort of hierarchy of respect or weed people out. *shrug*

[boongirl]

Here are my questions:

1. Of course there are "novices" and "experts" in any given field, but as far as I've been able to ascertain, "expertise" means, to most people, a diploma in a field of study or a string of letters after a name. It doesn't say anything about actual knowledge, practical or otherwise. Are you saying that you tend to trust the advice of "experts" over "novices" because they have those bits of paper, or strings of letters?

expert

adj

Having, involving, or demonstrating great skill, dexterity, or knowledge as the result of experience or training.

2. If it's your job to be responsible for your feelings, then why assert at the end of your post that other posters are being rude to you? Surely it would be your choice to feel offended even when people are doing their very best to be polite and gentle (and even going out of their way to say as much). Well, that is a good point. I put my foot in my mouth on that one. :foot Touche.

3. You say that you've learned a lot about "who's opinion to respect and who's to take as anecdotal at best;" if this is indeed the case, then you should be able to tell just by reading posts whose opinion is worthy of your respect, should you not? Why do you need to ask who the experts are, then, if you already know which posts are worthy of your time and energy just by reading them? I kind of meant that directed at the posters in this thread, whom I know better as a result of this thread. Before I started this thread, I was not able to make this distinction.

[boongirl]

Just a thought...I am guessing somewhere there are lists specifically for educators for gifted kids and forbid posts from "novices", people are "simply parents" and those without adequate "expertise" to qualify.

I never said you don't have a right to post or reply to anything.

[lckrause]

I never said you don't have a right to post or reply to anything.

I don't think Roar was implying you said anything like that. I think she was saying that if you wanted to talk to gifted educators/experts and not "regular folk," there are most likely lists for that. Not to imply that you ONLY want to talk to experts on here. ;)

[LeftField]

I take a complete opposite approach to posting on this board. I appreciate the words of wisdom but I have learned to be responsible for my own feelings and not worry about the feelings of others. If I take offense to something someone says, I may write so but more often than not I just ignore it. It is my job to be responsible for my feelings, not yours. This is the internet and nothing I can do is going to guarantee that everyone is going to feel great about the words I type.
...
If you all got your feelings hurt by this thread, I am sorry. But, I really do believe that there are experts and there are novices in the world and I prefer to get advice from the former.
...
I find it completely interesting that the mamas typing here who do not have expertise are the ones who are the most offended by my words.

1. My feelings are not hurt. I strive to keep my feelings divorced from the Internet, because it's healthiest for me. I have zero emotional attachment to this thread, just academic interest. I am not offended by what you wrote, rather I disagree with your word choice and some follow-up statements. I was just stating that and explaining why.

2. Again, no hurt feelings or feelings of any sort here. I like to take advice from the most informed sources and they are not always the self-proclaimed experts, pure and simple. Therefore, I read what everyone has to say and think about it carefully. I am not impressed by job titles, but I am impressed by what people have to say and where they get their data from.

3. Is there a raised eyebrow or thinking smiley? I'm not seeing "mamas who do not have expertise" disagreeing. I'm seeing very well-read Mamas disagreeing. Actually, one of those Mamas does work with the gifted, IIRC. And honestly, since we've taken off the gloves, I'm just not seeing any particular person here as having expertise in this area. Now, honestly, if you were Deborah Ruf or Linda Silverman, I'd agree you were an expert. And with the latter, with her center for the gifted and extensive research, *many* people in the gifted community dispute her "expert" status based on her touchy-feely Indigo child beliefs. So I'm just not seeing this as a clear cut case of experts vs moms or something. I'm just not seeing the experts floating out in this forum, available for our enlightenment and advice based on being a school-teacher or whatnot. Sorry. I am interested in what you do for work and what others do, but I'm not seeing a line-up of "gifted experts" vs "Mamas with no expertise".

I have been on the gifted support threads in Special Needs for a pretty long time. I have no earthly idea of what various professional experience those Mamas have. But I know that they have been an amazing resource to me in times when I really needed it. I have taken a lot of information and advice from them, based on their personal experience and based on what they've read. They are extremely well-read and informed ladies, all around. That's, personally, what's been meaningful and helpful to me, not their job titles (whatever they are). So, I'm not sure what you're basing, "Mamas with no expertise" on, because I'm just not seeing anything other than a group of highly informed, helpful Moms. :shrug

I haven't been offended by this thread, but that last bit probably comes closest to offending me; it seems to assert that it's the enlightened vs the masses or something, with the masses jealously acting out. Actually, it kind of makes me feel like I'm in school again. I don't like the distinction of posters here based on whether they earned the "expert" grade or not. I have never ever viewed the gifted support thread as being divided into experts and novices and I don't plan to start doing so now.

[Roar]

I never said you don't have a right to post or reply to anything.

Huh? You have expressed that it is important to you to hear from people who share your particular expertise. I'm suggesting given that as I understand it this is a forum for parents or would that be "simply parents" and given that it may not fully meet your needs which is fine and I think it is good you have the self awareness to realize it.

I know I'm here to hear from parents who may have similar expereinces. When I am seeking primarily opinions from people about work or health matters, this isn't the place I'd look.

[eilonwy]

3. You say that you've learned a lot about "who's opinion to respect and who's to take as anecdotal at best;" if this is indeed the case, then you should be able to tell just by reading posts whose opinion is worthy of your respect, should you not? Why do you need to ask who the experts are, then, if you already know which posts are worthy of your time and energy just by reading them?

I kind of meant that directed at the posters in this thread, whom I know better as a result of this thread. Before I started this thread, I was not able to make this distinction.

:scratch I don't quite understand. You're saying that you know whose opinion is worthy of respect, but you only know from the context of expertise? So, you could respect the opinion of, say, a nephrologist more than that of a well-researched parent of a child with kidney problems, but that you can't tell the two apart from the information that they offer?

[Roar]

Having, involving, or demonstrating great skill, dexterity, or knowledge as the result of experience or training.



How do you fit that in with your statements that it is appropriate for you to post about yeast infections or trash TV? Do you have degrees in those subjects? Or, do you have life experiece? If the later I wonder why you believe parenting gifted children is different. Ever person here with gifted children has experience so why the need to sort out who is better qualified?

On the yeast threads do you post how many yeast infections you've had and does that somehow qualify you more than the person who figured out after two to stop eating sugar?

[boongirl]

If I posted a thread titled "Who are the high IQ posters here?" or "So who has the most years of experience with their OWN gifted child?" those threads would probably be seen the same way yours was, as trying to set up some sort of hierarchy of respect or weed people out. *shrug*

I wonder if the elitism comment that is thrown at gifted programs is also evident in this comment. If I asked, in a health forum, who are the doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals, I don't think people would have a problem with that post. If I asked, in a health forum, who are the experts at a certain diagnosis, I would assume that those who were medical professionals, as well as those with personal experience in that diagnosis, would feel comfortable replying. If someone just shot a comment at me related to my question, without clarifying their expertise in that area, how am I to know that that comment has any merit? Why would I take the opinion of someone who may or may not have any expertise in that field?

Somehow, in this instance, one is not allowed to ask who the experts in the field of gifted education are without being accused, by implication, of elitism. Is that what is happening here? It sure seems so. I do not have the right to ask who has expertise, in training or in experience, with gifted children? Doing so is viewed as "trying to set up some sort of hierarchy of respect or weed people out?" Would you have the same opinion in a health forum if I asked for expertise related to a diagnosis? Would you also assert that in doing so I was trying to weed people out or create a hierarchy? And, so what if I am. There exists among humans a hierarchy of understanding. We sort things this way in our minds. We rank things. It is human nature. In doing so, however, there is no reason to expect that those who do not rank high in a specific hierarchy are unworthy. Just because your experience and training in gifted education may be less than someone else's does not mean you are less worthy. If you have less experience and training, you are less qualified to give an opinion. That is fact. It does not mean you do not have the right to give an opinion, but it does mean that you are less qualified to do so. We can give opinions on any topic we like, especially if you live in a country with freedom of speech.

Maybe I should make a more concrete example. In my state tribe area, people are always posting questions about what to do with kids in Seattle. Those of us who live there now, have lived there, or who live nearby post responses based on our personal experience. We are the experts, so to speak, in a specific thread about the city of Seattle because of our personal experience. If someone from another city were to post "well, I've never done this but I've heard that doing this Seattle activity is really fun" we would of course see that as an interesting post, worthy of consideration, but since the person has no actual experience in the city nor in that particular activity, then that suggestion would get ranked a bit lower in our minds than the ones from those who have actual, physical experience in the city. We might even post again asking the experts their opinion of that activity, just to be sure it is indeed a good activity for us to do. Anyone is worthy of making a post but not all posts are going to be taken as equal. If that smacks of elitism to you, that is because there is a hierarchy in our minds about this. But, denoting a hierarchy does not make a person more or less worthy.

I really am dumbfounded as to why this is not obvious and why some of you are taking this so personally. If you have experience with gifted kids based upon your personal experience as a gifted child, then say so. If your experience is with your own gifted children, great. If you are an educator or a trained professional in a field related to gifted education, tell us. These are experts, based on experience and/or training. There are probably more. If you have no experience or training, then you are not an expert.

[boongirl]

Huh? You have expressed that it is important to you to hear from people who share your particular expertise.

I did no such thing. I asked who are the experts. I am sorry if the "simply parents" comment offended you. I certainly did not mean to denigrate parenting, particularly when that is my sole job at the moment. I was merely interested in knowing if anyone had expertise. If you are a parent of a gifted child and have a lot of knowledge, according to you, in the field, then you are an expert. If you were a gifted child and have experience with the system, then you are an expert. If you are a parent who is interested in gifted education and is just beginning to explore the topic, then you are not an expert. Your opinion is interesting and valid but not as an expert.

[boongirl]

:scratch I don't quite understand. You're saying that you know whose opinion is worthy of respect, but you only know from the context of expertise? So, you could respect the opinion of, say, a nephrologist more than that of a well-researched parent of a child with kidney problems, but that you can't tell the two apart from the information that they offer?

Sounds like both nephrologist and the parent are experts to me. As to this thread, based upon the last 3 pages, I have a better understanding who has training in the field of gifted education and who is a parent, who may or may not have experience and training in the field of gifted education and is pretty darn sensitive about the idea of denoting expert status on anyone and is also unwilling to admit their own level of expertise.

[boongirl]

How do you fit that in with your statements that it is appropriate for you to post about yeast infections or trash TV? Do you have degrees in those subjects? Or, do you have life experiece? If the later I wonder why you believe parenting gifted children is different. Ever person here with gifted children has experience so why the need to sort out who is better qualified?

On the yeast threads do you post how many yeast infections you've had and does that somehow qualify you more than the person who figured out after two to stop eating sugar?

This is a pretty crude post.

Experience is experience. On the project runway thread (not at all trash tv; imo very entertaining) I have watched every single episode of every season at least once and often more than that and I read Tim's Take on the website each week. So, I have experience. On the topic of yeast infections, I was overloaded with antibiotics in my 20's and developed chronic, systemic yeast infections which took nearly half of my 30's to cure, with the help of a naturopath. Experience.

[Roar]

I wonder if the elitism comment that is thrown at gifted programs is also evident in this comment. If I asked, in a health forum, who are the doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals, I don't think people would have a problem with that post.

Okay, I dare you. Go to any forum for parents of kids with autism where people discuss dietary inteventions. Start a thread and say "who are the experts" and who here are "simply parents". Good luck and report back how that goes for you.

[LeftField]

I wonder if the elitism comment that is thrown at gifted programs is also evident in this comment. If I asked, in a health forum, who are the doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals, I don't think people would have a problem with that post.
...


I really need to get off the computer and get some errands done. I've only browsed your post so far, as I need to get going. So I haven't had the chance to read it all. But wrt to this statement, think about two different threads in the health forum:
Who are the doctors and medical professionals here?
vs
Who are the medical experts here?

I swear that if you had titled this, "Who has professional exp with gifted children?", I would have taken it entirely differently. Regardless of what Webster's technical definition of "expert" is, there's a popular impression that it denotes one who knows nearly everything there is to know on a subject.



If you have experience with gifted kids based upon your personal experience as a gifted child, then say so. If your experience is with your own gifted children, great. If you are an educator or a trained professional in a field related to gifted education, tell us. These are experts, based on experience and/or training. There are probably more. If you have no experience or training, then you are not an expert.

But if this is true, then we all are experts so the word is then meaningless in this forum (so why did you ask)? We are all experts by this definition, when it seems you were originally asking who has professional exp.

[boongirl]

Okay, I dare you. Go to any forum for parents of kids with autism where people discuss dietary inteventions. Start a thread and say "who are the experts" and who here are "simply parents". Good luck and report back how that goes for you.

Why would I do that?

[Roar]

One thing that puzzles me Boon.

Okay you respect people with degrees. You want to hear from people with years of experience. But, you choose to do so in a place where ANYONE can LIE about anything! Why? We have no idea if anyone posting about themselves or their experience is telling the truth.

I'm curious given this is true, why you give that more weight than your own evaluation of the content of a person's posts. To me it is rather obvious from reading posts who is well read, who can well support their ideas, who is can construct a strong case for their opinion, and who can't. I'm curious why you put more stock in what people claim about themselves than in what you can actually see.

[boongirl]

I swear that if you had titled this, "Who has professional exp with gifted children?", I would have taken it entirely differently. Regardless of what Webster's technical definition of "expert" is, there's a popular impression that it denotes one who knows nearly everything there is to know on a subject. .

Did you actually read the first line of my first post?

I would like to ask if anyone participating in this forum is an expert in the field of gifted education or has any expertise in the field.


Seems pretty clear to me. If you think you are an expert, say so.

[Roar]

Why would I do that?

Your contention was in a health forum people would have no problem with the sorts of questions you asked at the beginning of this thread. If you believe that to really be true, maybe go test that out and see how it goes for you.

[lckrause]

Hey Boongirl, did you read through any of the threads in this forum before you started posting? I'm just wondering. Doing so may give you a good feel on whose opinions to take into consideration and whose to discard, perhaps more so than just asking for a list of qualifications.

[eilonwy]

Sounds like both nephrologist and the parent are experts to me. As to this thread, based upon the last 3 pages, I have a better understanding who has training in the field of gifted education and who is a parent, who may or may not have experience and training in the field of gifted education and is pretty darn sensitive about the idea of denoting expert status on anyone and is also unwilling to admit their own level of expertise.

So you're not asking about "gifted experts," but about people with experience and/or training in the field of gifted education?

[boongirl]

I'm curious why you put more stock in what people claim about themselves than in what you can actually see.

One of the great things about a chat board is that you can post pretty much anything that strikes your fancy, within the parameters of the user agreement. I wanted to know who had expertise in the field. I got a few good answers and a lot of arguments and defensiveness.

[boongirl]

Hey Boongirl, did you read through any of the threads in this forum before you started posting? I'm just wondering. Doing so may give you a good feel on whose opinions to take into consideration and whose to discard, perhaps more so than just asking for a list of qualifications.

I like reading lists of qualifications. I am one of the few people I know who actually enjoys reading Curriculum-vitae. I find it fascinating to know what people have been doing in their lives, what they have read, where they studied or got their life experience. When I first go to a website, I love to read the "about us" section, just to find out more. Call me a nerd, but I love information. You can pile it on me. I also enjoy reading dictionaries. Remember the move Say Anything where the girl marked every word in the dictionary she looked up? I did the same growing up, and in the encyclopedia. I even read owner's manuals.

[boongirl]

So you're not asking about "gifted experts," but about people with experience and/or training in the field of gifted education?

a gifted expert = those who have experience and/or training in the field of gifted education. Synonyms.

Because I am feeling worn down by this discussion, I went back to my first post and made some changes to make it more clear what I am asking.

I would like to ask if anyone participating in this forum is an expert in the field of gifted education or has any expertise in the field. Expertise is defined, in my book and on dictionary.com, as any experience and/or training in the field. So, anyone who has any experience and/or training in the field is an expert.

So, who are the experts?

And, I very much appreciate the following answers:

Rivka5: a psychologist who has lots of experience with IQ tests

alegna/Angela: I am highly educated on gifted ed and gifted issues; a teacher endorsed to teach gifted. I taught in a gifted program in public schools, at a gifted private school and at a special needs private school that included gifted (I was the resident go-to person for gifted)

Charles Baudelaire: I've been a schoolteacher for 11 years with an M.A. in English and have had a good share of gifted students. I may be gifted myself, or may just have serious problems working and playing with my peers. I've taken several classes toward endorsement in gifted ed.

LiamnEmma: I am the identifier of gifted children within my district, I am the parent of a gifted child and I am a gifted survivor of public schools.

eilonwy: read a lot.

teachma: elementary level teacher; currently teach in a school without any formal gifted program and usually wind up with all the gifted children in my class because I can supposedly best "relate to them." I possess a Master's degree an education-related subject, have two gifted siblings and possibly a gifted 6 year old son and a so-far advanced 2.5 year old daughter.

leftfield: I've read a lot

lckrause and roar did not answer but I seem to recall from another thread that roar is something like a researcher in the field of giftedness. Roar - did you find those journal articles that identify giftedness as a brain dysfunction yet? Also, which country are you in again?

And me, Kathy: M.Ed in reading/elementary education, gifted teacher for 10 years, in a gifted program myself as a child, done a lot of reading, experienced in testing with CogAt.

[LeftField]

Did you actually read the first line of my first post?
Seems pretty clear to me. If you think you are an expert, say so.

Quote:
"I would like to ask if anyone participating in this forum is an expert in the field of gifted education or has any expertise in the field."

Seems pretty clear to me. If you think you are an expert, say so.

Ok, my kids are not co-operating with me on my goal of leaving the house and now they're in the other room...

I'll bite.
Your question that you quote asks who has expertise in the field of gifted education. I, and most Moms here, do not work in the field of education, gifted or otherwise, so we are not experts by the description in your OP. Furthermore, you did subsequently clarify by saying "or simply the mother of a gifted child". So, in your OP, you did divide those with gifted experience into two groups: expert in the field of gifted education vs simply the mother of a gifted child. In at least one subsequent follow-up statement ("mamas typing here who do not have expertise are the ones who are the most offended by my words"), you support that assertation that there are two groups here: experts (denoting some lvl of professional exp) vs simply Moms of the gifted.

In most recent posts, you appear to have changed that to say that you meant anyone who has experience with giftedness, whether it be their own etc, is an expert to you, with the exception of those who are just starting to explore the topic.
("If you are a parent who is interested in gifted education and is just beginning to explore the topic, then you are not an expert".) I'm not sure that any of the "mamas typing here who do not have expertise are the ones who are the most offended by my words" are Moms who are just starting to explore the topic of gifted education.

Your most recent statements and your original statements, IMHO, do not sync up and, therefore, I can't respond to it. The target is moving.

I perceive that you were originally asking who else worked with the gifted in a professional/work context. Fair enough. Some people, including myself, said that "expert" was a loaded and subjective word. That was my only issue with your OP and I regret that the thread has taken the turns that it has. I am genuinely interested in what anyone has to say here and I was only trying to share a different POV.

[eilonwy]

I'm curious given this is true, why you give that more weight than your own evaluation of the content of a person's posts. To me it is rather obvious from reading posts who is well read, who can well support their ideas, who is can construct a strong case for their opinion, and who can't. I'm curious why you put more stock in what people claim about themselves than in what you can actually see.

:yeah: That's what I was getting at. I feel that I've learned a lot about whose opinions I can respect and whose I can discount out of hand, and the most important thing that I've learned in my (albeit short) 29 years on this planet is that so-called "expertise" usually means "I've got a degree in this" and not much else. :shrug I can tell by reading a post or talking with a person whether or not they're an expert in anything more often than not. I've learned the tricks and I can often pass for an expert in fields which are completely foreign to me, as well as those which are more familiar.

I guess what I'm saying is, I couldn't tell you if PosterX has a degree in Bupkiss, but after reading a few of her posts, I'll know whether or not I can trust her expertise, or if I should skip it. :shrug The more posts I read by PosterX, the more information I have on her understanding of Bupkiss. I don't need to ask her if she's an expert; it'll be readily apparent in her posts.

[boongirl]

I perceive that you were originally asking who else worked with the gifted in a professional/work context. Fair enough. Some people, including myself, said that "expert" was a loaded and subjective word. That was my only issue with your OP and I regret that the thread has taken the turns that it has. I am genuinely interested in what anyone has to say here and I was only trying to share a different POV.

I have finally conceded to this point and changed my OP. I removed the "simply a parent" comment and made the question more generalized.

[boongirl]

I don't need to ask her if she's an expert; it'll be readily apparent in her posts.

Well, bully for you. We are not two peas in a pod on this one. Does that really matter so much? I have my interests and methods and you have yours.

In my 40 years on this planet, I, too, have learned that education and training do not necessarily make on the best expert on a given topic. But, I still find people's training and experience interesting. Take my mil as an example (again). She worked for the state department as a secretary for 20 years before getting married and having kids. She's lived in many countries and knows many things about world culture and politics, all of it self taught. I find that interesting. On the other hand, I have a friend who has a phd in anthropology and is an expert on the chocolate trade in Mexico. I find that interesting as well.

[eilonwy]

Well, bully for you. We are not two peas in a pod on this one. Does that really matter so much? I have my interests and methods and you have yours.

I'm interested in where people have been and what they've learned as well, but I guess I see is as something entirely separate from expertise. :shrug

[Roar]

Roar - did you find those journal articles that identify giftedness as a brain dysfunction yet? Also, which country are you in again?
.

I have no idea who are posting to but I never identified giftedness as brain dysfunction and specifically disagreed with the suggestion that it is.

[LeftField]

I have no idea who are posting to but I never identified giftedness as brain dysfunction and specifically disagreed with the suggestion that it is.
I *think* that was LadyMarmalade.

[Roar]

One of the great things about a chat board is that you can post pretty much anything that strikes your fancy, within the parameters of the user agreement. I wanted to know who had expertise in the field. I got a few good answers and a lot of arguments and defensiveness.

You didn't at all answer my question.

Given we have ZERO idea here if anyone is telling the truth about their qualifications... Why does it mean more to you what people SAY about themselves than what people have to say? Why is it easier for you to judge based on statement of qualifications than it is on the way in which a person expresses themselves and supports their ideas?

[Roar]

Since it is defined as education or experience I guess we are just fine then...

Is there anyone here who isn't at least one of these: a former gifted child, an gifted adult, the parent of a gifted child, an educator, a person who works with gifted kids in any capacity, a person who has studied giftedness, etc. I didn't think so. So,that pretty much sums up everyone that is posting here so goody - everyone is an "expert".

[Roar]

I'm interested in where people have been and what they've learned as well, but I guess I see is as something entirely separate from expertise. :shrug

Exactly. And, I'm very willing to say the person who stumbles on this board today (you know the dreaded "novice") having never read a thing about giftedness before, may well post something far more personally meaningful or thought provoking to me than a person who has worked in the field for twenty years. Recognizing how time spent in bureaucracies can dull innovation, this may even be more likely to be the case.

[LiamnEmma]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar
I have no idea who are posting to but I never identified giftedness as brain dysfunction and specifically disagreed with the suggestion that it is.

I *think* that was LadyMarmalade.

__________________________ Yep, that's my point exactly. Roar also strikes me as an expert, as someone having a wealth of knowledge and the ability to impart it articulately and compassionately. Passionately as well. Yet, apparently no degree. While I, on the other hand, have a list of degrees, credentials and licenses yet I'd say I know far less than Roar. I'd take Roar's advice over my own any day.

[alegna]

B I started this thread wanting to know who had expertise working with gifted and I find it completely interesting that the mamas typing here who do not have expertise are the ones who are the most offended by my words.

Well, I don't know if I have enough experience to count for you or not, but I can see how some here could be offended. I don't have a masters in GT ed. I don't have a doctorate in gt ed. However I am much more knowledgable than many who do. :shrug As a pp said, I'll judge someone's experience by what they write/say and how they present themselves rather than what degrees or certifications they have. I've known far too many stupid and ignorant people with degrees and certifications.

-Angela

[boongirl]

I have no idea who are posting to but I never identified giftedness as brain dysfunction and specifically disagreed with the suggestion that it is.

oops. sorry

[boongirl]

You didn't at all answer my question.

Given we have ZERO idea here if anyone is telling the truth about their qualifications... Why does it mean more to you what people SAY about themselves than what people have to say? Why is it easier for you to judge based on statement of qualifications than it is on the way in which a person expresses themselves and supports their ideas?

Well, I did not say it was easier. I have never really thought about it this way but I would say that I believe what people are saying online, for the most part, until they are proven to be full of BS. Of course, that does not mean I am naive but rather I don't find it useful to me to question the validity of every word that everyone online has written. If I post a question at mdc, I don't read the answers wondering if they are really written by mothers or imposters. But, at the same time, I would never take the advice of someone online without first using good judgement about it and I do not give away any private details about myself that I feel could be used to harm me or my family in real life. I guess I am trying to say that I am cautiously trusting of the mamas here.

That being said, I find knowing people's area of expertise, especially as it relates to my area of career expertise, very interesting. I have long found CB's statements to be useful and seemingly well founded. To learn more about her, that she is a high school teacher who works with many gifted kids and has taken coursework (albeit useless in her opinion) sounds really interesting to me. She could be totally full of BS and really be a 13 year old boy pulling an elaborate charade on us, for all I know, but I find it more useful and enjoyable to assume she is truthful until such time as something happens to prove otherwise. Presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

[boongirl]

Since it is defined as education or experience I guess we are just fine then...

Is there anyone here who isn't at least one of these: a former gifted child, an gifted adult, the parent of a gifted child, an educator, a person who works with gifted kids in any capacity, a person who has studied giftedness, etc. I didn't think so. So,that pretty much sums up everyone that is posting here so goody - everyone is an "expert".

It is my understanding that there were some problems with people posting about giftedness in the special needs forum that warranted this forum being founded. I knwo that there are those who have no experience or training in giftedness who find it necessary to post remarks belittling gifted education and giftedness and making remarks about its elitism. I have read remarks by people who know nothing about giftedness nor gifted education and yet feel they have the right to say that it is all bunk. So, knowing that everyone who has posted so far in this thread is on board, at the very least, with the idea that giftedness does indeed exist and that gifted education is at least a bit important makes me feel better about conversing with y'all.

Now that a statement of purpose has been written and approved by Cynthia Mosher, I feel better, also, about discussing giftedness with others at MDC since those who are against it or doubtful about it or just in general unsupportive of it will find, in that statement of purpose, that that is not the focus of this forum. This thread came out before that statement was finalized.

[boongirl]

I *think* that was LadyMarmalade. yes, I think that is the right name. Thanks

[boongirl]

Exactly. And, I'm very willing to say the person who stumbles on this board today (you know the dreaded "novice") having never read a thing about giftedness before, may well post something far more personally meaningful or thought provoking to me than a person who has worked in the field for twenty years. Recognizing how time spent in bureaucracies can dull innovation, this may even be more likely to be the case.

Or, they may say something full of bunk about giftedness being a made up construct that is not worthy of the funds it depletes from school programs and that giftedness is elitist and classicist. They know absolutely nothing about giftedness, brain research, or gifted programs. Unfortunately, I have met a lot of people in my life who are like this. Many of them have been teachers who have actually lobbied against gifted programming, for one reason or another, knowing absolutely nothing about the needs of gifted kids, the laws, funding issues, etc. Educating such a person can be fruitful or completely futile. But, at least it helps to understand where they are coming from.

[eilonwy]

Or, they may say something full of bunk about giftedness being a made up construct that is not worthy of the funds it depletes from school programs and that giftedness is elitist and classicist. They know absolutely nothing about giftedness, brain research, or gifted programs

That's just it, though-- something about the post wouldn't ring true, it would immediately be recognized by many of us as pure horse:censored. I don't need to know "where they're coming from" to know that the post is coming either from a place of ignorance or a place of malice (or maybe both). It's very obvious to me that many of the people who've posted about giftedness not being a special need, for example, have no idea what they're talking about. If they turned out to have degrees in gifted education, or experience working with gifted children, I'd not only be surprised but extremely disappointed-- such people only highlight the need for more research, and for the research that exists to be more thoroughly disseminated.

ETA: A few days ago, someone posted to the Support thread in this forum. I didn't like the post, it seemed very trollish to me, so I reported it. I may have been incorrect, but the moderator who reviewed the post obviously agreed with me, because it was removed before the thread was returned. For all I know, that poster really was the parent of an exceptionally gifted child, or perhaps was a gifted child him/herself, but the post didn't read that way to me or, apparently, to the moderator of this forum. :shrug

[Roar]

Or, they may say something full of bunk about giftedness being a made up construct that is not worthy of the funds it depletes from school programs and that giftedness is elitist and classicist. They know absolutely nothing about giftedness, brain research, or gifted programs. Unfortunately, I have met a lot of people in my life who are like this. Many of them have been teachers who have actually lobbied against gifted programming, for one reason or another, knowing absolutely nothing about the needs of gifted kids, the laws, funding issues, etc. Educating such a person can be fruitful or completely futile. But, at least it helps to understand where they are coming from.

I'm not clear on what you are saying. When people post something "full of bunk" you want to not just conclude it is full of bunk, but you want to know their qualifications so you can determine if you should educate them. I'm not clear is it better in that situation for them to be an "expert" or not?

[Roar]

I'd take Roar's advice over my own any day.

Aw shucks.

[LadyMarmalade]

I've learned in my (albeit short) 29 years on this planet is that so-called "expertise" usually means "I've got a degree in this" and not much else.
Exactly. And it's already been made abundantly clear that degrees obtained from different parts of the world have different theories and ideas - so even among 'experts' there are differences of opinion.

According to my experience and Boongirl's (ever changing ;) ) definition I could be an 'expert'. However, some of the comments (from a number of posters) in this forum make me feel as though - because my expertise is different to that of others - it's inferior. By the way - there's a reason I don't give out personal information on the internet. I won't be telling you where I live, what university I worked for, where I studied or where I'm currently working. If you can't accept that, it's your problem - dismiss me as a liar who is "full of bunk" and is creating wild theories with no foundation in current research if you wish ... it's of little consequence to me. That's why I haven't been posting here ... this is meant to be a support forum, not a place with accusations that someone might be unworthy of your personal opinion of them and whether they're worthy of you deeming them an expert or not. I don't come here to find insinuations that my knowledge or professionally obtained opinions and experience aren't valid. I haven't had time to dig out journal articles or books for you - I've been extremely busy with work and my family. I had intended to do it last week. But, to tell the truth, I now have no interest in spending time and effort doing it. Perhaps if you were asking from a position of interest rather than abrasive disbelief I'd be more inclined towards being gracious.

If I'm going to be 'refreshingly honest', I don't have much respect for the CogAt test and I don't think it should be administered in isolation to gauge giftedness in children. So obviously there's a conflict between us there - two 'experts' who both have valid training and experience. My career involves working against it because I believe (and so do my colleagues) that type of work with gifted children sets it back and creates misunderstandings. So truthfully, it doesn't matter if someone is an 'expert', in my eyes ... the crux of the matter is whether they advocate for gifted children. There's no degree in that.

It might seem "pretty clear" to you, Boongirl - but your demand for people, if they're an expert, to just say so isn't so easy for me when your posts seem to aim to discredit my expertise. And yeah, if might also be difficult for you to understand why I took it personally. But your lack of understanding of just how offensive some of the things you've said doesn't mean others can't see it. Why won't I identify myself as an expert? Because I have a sneaking suspicion that if I do, I'll be jumped on by a few people here claiming that they've never heard of what I'm talking about, so therefore it mustn't be true. I'm not interested in having those types of challenges thrown at me here. I shouldn't have to 'prove myself' in a place of support.

[LiamnEmma]

Oh Lady Marmalade, I hope I haven't been one of the posters that has insinuated something regarding your credentials. If I have, I am truly sorry.

[LadyMarmalade]

Oh absolutely not!!! :)

[newmom22]

I’m also someone with a lot of letters after my name, but would hesitate to call myself an expert. I have three degrees and, while this is not true in real life, It’s entirely possible that I am one of the “stupid & ignorant” degree holders according to some of you online. (Well, at least that’s how I’ve been made to feel in particular threads I’ve participated in.) :bolt

The truth is, I mostly lurk here on MDC- I find there is so much to learn! I feel relatively qualified to post in threads relating to gifted education since my B.Ed was in Special Education and I have a decade of experience behind me working with all levels of learners, including the highly gifted in inclusive classrooms. I also spent several years teaching at my new school board’s “Gifted” school. (All students are tested in Grade 3 board wide and then bussed to this particular school for a more intensive curriculum. Every child in every class has an IEP and is in the 98% percentile, or higher)

I suspect any shortcomings I have here are due to my relative inexperience writing in this genre. I am a “virtual virgin”, if you will, and MDC is my first crack at this type of communication. :loveeyes: Check out my lame user name if you doubt that! Maybe it’s my low post count that discredits me, maybe I really have nothing valuable to add to the discussion. Either way, it certainly limits the conversation if and when participants fear they will be hung and quartered every time they present an opposing view point or make themselves vulnerable with real life suggestions for hypothetical scenarios. (This is made in reference to another thread...):eyesroll

I’m reading this over and wondering what the point of writing this was.... I hope it makes sense to someone because I’m starting to feel like this is not my best mode of communication.:o

[LiamnEmma]

newmom I like you already. :)

[Roar]

I suspect any shortcomings I have here are due to my relative inexperience writing in this genre. I am a “virtual virgin”, if you will, and MDC is my first crack at this type of communication. :loveeyes: Check out my lame user name if you doubt that! o

I hope you speak up more, I enjoyed your post. And, your comment about your screen name made me chuckle. There are some great screen names on MDC. Good time to say LadyMarmalade - what a cool name.

[lckrause]

Hey newmom, I've been a netizen for 14 years and my usernames are still boring... no worries. :lol Welcome to the board!

[WuWei]

Another fascinating glimpse into the resources on this forum. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Pat