This was just a thought- after reading a therad that included comments about large breasted women.

How much do you think a mother's "looks" affects people's public attitudes with breastfeeding?

I can say my weigth have been all over the map, and just now i sat and thought about it a bit. I would think like most things when i was overweight i would catch more flack but when i think about my *own* situation it was the opposite, when i was thin people gave me a hard time about nursing. When i had smaller breasts people complained more.

Now i haev no idea if this amounts to anything.. but i have five kids and in my own experince it has been true.

I am just curious to se what others think about this?

I think it speaks a lot to how ridiculous it is when people find fault with public nursing.

It's an interesting thought. I do think that a mom's attitude has a big part in whether she's given a hard time or not. No one has ever said boo to me.

-Angela

One of the first threads I ever read on NIP (on a mainstream forum) was about how disgusting it was when FAT women NIP. Oooookay, yeah, so, it's really not NIP that they're uncomfortable with in that case as much as seeing a little jelly roll. Hey, i'm normally pretty thin, and so is my family, so I'm not used to seeing rolls, but they should be just as widely accepted as thin bodies.

deleted

Looks affect everything, so I'm sure it does matter.

I never had much reaction from people in public...but I have a little story that definately is on topic...
My husband and I took our son to Chuck E Cheese yesterday. There was an extremely overweight lady sitting in the booth behind us, facing my husband. As my husband was looking right in her direction, she lifted her shirt all the way up, exposing her her boob and the bottom half of her torso, while waiting for her child to get in her lap to nurse (she was nursing a toddler). My husband just looked away, and didn't react. He was completely skeeved, not by the boob itself, but the whole package. I know my husband sounds like an asshat right about now, but this is what he said...(after telling me he was grossed out ast having seen the boob and the rolls) "I didn't react, because I didn't want her to feel uncomfortable. I didn't want her to think I was grossed out by public breastfeeding. Infact, I wanted to cheer her on, more mommas need to be breastfeding their babies." I know had it been a slender lady with nice plump tatas, he wouldn't have looked away, and he wouldn't have been grossed out.
I suppose there is some validity to the idea that a mother's appearance and/or attitude has an affect on the public's perception of NIP. I always nursed my son with a big smile....well, with exception of those first couple of weeks:p

Yeah, let's bring on the "omg I saw a fatty nursing and it grossed out my delicate DH!" stories. Lord knows my ego is crazy out of control and needs to be downsized. :sneeze:

Yeah, let's bring on the "omg I saw a fatty nursing and it grossed out my delicate DH!" stories. Lord knows my ego is crazy out of control and needs to be downsized. :sneeze:

*sigh*

I would think like most things when i was overweight i would catch more flack but when i think about my *own* situation it was the opposite, when i was thin people gave me a hard time about nursing. When i had smaller breasts people complained more.

My emphasis added above.

I wonder if in this case, people were more offended by NIP by a thin (attractive by society's standards) mother because they were more likely to view her as a sexual object than an overweight NIP mother.

I am overweight but not obese. The only time anyone ever looked uncomfortable about my NIPing was while I was at a belly dance festival and I had just finished performing and was still wearing my costume. (My DD will not accept being covered.) I decided in this situation to move to a quieter, less crowded place because I felt a little at odds myself and the costume was difficult to nurse in anyway. My point being here that I was dressed in a way that would be seen as sexual but there I was nursing a 2 yr. old.

I also agree with alegna that the nursing mom's attitude plays a part in how well she is accepted.

Slightly OT here - one cool thing about this particular festival is that big is beautiful. Most of the dancers are a bit hefty, a few are thin, and a few are very large. All of them are beautiful. And this also relates back to what alegna said about attitude playing a big part in whether or not someone is given a hard time.

Yeah, let's bring on the "omg I saw a fatty nursing and it grossed out my delicate DH!" stories. Lord knows my ego is crazy out of control and needs to be downsized. :sneeze:

I don't think this was about saying "Fat people nursing is nasty" I think it was just a story to prove the point that some people will be grossed out by a larger woman breastfeeding than a skinny person. I don't mind a buff dude in a Speedo, but a larger man in a Speedo will get a shudder from me, kwim?

hawkfeather, I think that looks probably do play a big part in two ways. If a woman looks like she's capable of kicking your butt, I doubt someone is going to go up and say anything for fear of angering the woman. Also, I think if the person doesn't fit into society's mold of what an attractive person is, then they'll get bad looks too. I nursed my daughter while grocery shopping today (she was in the cart, and she fell asleep while I was shopping, leaning against the padded siding of our cart cover) and I got a few people giving me looks, but no one said anything to me (I even had a conversation with an employee about where to find good flank steak.) I'm pretty sure that I don't fall into society's mold of an attractive person though :lol

My emphasis added above.

I wonder if in this case, people were more offended by NIP by a thin (attractive by society's standards) mother because they were more likely to view her as a sexual object than an overweight NIP mother.

I am overweight but not obese. The only time anyone ever looked uncomfortable about my NIPing was while I was at a belly dance festival and I had just finished performing and was still wearing my costume. (My DD will not accept being covered.) I decided in this situation to move to a quieter, less crowded place because I felt a little at odds myself and the costume was difficult to nurse in anyway. My point being here that I was dressed in a way that would be seen as sexual but there I was nursing a 2 yr. old.

I also agree with alegna that the nursing mom's attitude plays a part in how well she is accepted.

Slightly OT here - one cool thing about this particular festival is that big is beautiful. Most of the dancers are a bit hefty, a few are thin, and a few are very large. All of them are beautiful. And this also relates back to what alegna said about attitude playing a big part in whether or not someone is given a hard time.

That's a good point that I hadn't thought of.

i'm quite young looking and heavily tattooed and i think people are really suprised when they see me NIP. i think the whole package just plain confuses them. :lol

I wonder if in this case, people were more offended by NIP by a thin (attractive by society's standards) mother because they were more likely to view her as a sexual object than an overweight NIP mother.
.

My original question was really about the sexualization of the female body. I find it ironic and about as painful as humanly possible that when i was about 130 i was viewed as a more sexual being.. even with a spinning out of control eating disorder, the UN healthy i have been.. and now healthy at 200 pounds I am viewed as wrong by our warped ideals.

I asked this question not to invite negative comments about heavy mommas at all, but to dialouge about the sexual nature in which we are viewed. To me anyone having a sexual association in relation to thier problems with NIP instantly invalidates the public decency issues argued far and wide.

I suspect that the breastfeeding is the issue because people can not oogle a woman on the same level if she is being maternal. If there was no baby and just a pair of breats half the people complaining would be cheering.

As an overweight momma I can not say that comments implying *disgust* at me breastfeeding bother me much.. I am used to the attitude and I have seen far too many Gorgeous Round Goddess mommas breastfeeding to be fooled.

I really don't know. I am overweight by about 30 pounds, but "carry it really well" (I have a healthy body fat percentage)...I am distinctly top-heavy, and I guess kinda pretty. I get looks, if you KWIM.

At the risk of sounding a bit vain, I can say this. Once someone has said something negative to me about NIP (and it was only obliquely negative), and twice I have had to overhear people making snarky comments about it. In two out of the three cases, the folks who had a problem with me NIP were distinctly less attractive than I. So maybe that is another issue to consider? I don't know.

I have been breastfeeding nonstop for over four years now. I have nursed in public literally hundreds of times. So three negative experiences is just a minute amount. I think it is mainly to do with two things: most people don't even realize what I am up to (both times I got to overhear snarky comments, ironically, I was using a blanket as a cover-up because I was wearing a dress that necessitated bearing an entire breast to nurse), and I apparently give off a do-not-approach attitude. Maybe looks have something to do with it as well, but honestly it's not something I have ever stopped to consider before now.

All interesting thoughts. Without a doubt our culture has issues with people who are "overweight", especially women.

-Angela

You know, I never really thought about weight or breast size being an issue. To me, it is all about how a woman carries herself that gives me an impression. Large or small breasted, you can tell if a woman is uncomfortable with NIP by her mannerisms and that is what always catches my attention. For instance, I was most amazed with a friend of mine when we both had newborn babies at the park. She is very flat-chested. She was wearing a little sundress and when my baby started crying, her milk let down and the front of her dress became very wet. We were sitting with a group of people, and she just looks down and laughs and says, "look, your baby started crying and my milk is responding" like it was nothing at all. She didn't even try to hide it.

Her ease with her body's natural functions made everyone else around her feel comfortable.

SO...my point is (yes I have a point) is that maybe a woman who is self-conscious about her size or breast size, whether large or small, would be more likely to bring attention to herself because people can sense her discomfort.

Yeah, let's bring on the "omg I saw a fatty nursing and it grossed out my delicate DH!" stories. Lord knows my ego is crazy out of control and needs to be downsized. :sneeze:

Not trying to insult anybody, just validating the point the OP was making. If y'all would like me to erase my post, I will.

Yeah, let's bring on the "omg I saw a fatty nursing and it grossed out my delicate DH!" stories. Lord knows my ego is crazy out of control and needs to be downsized. :sneeze:

:lol When I read that post I thought, "Huh, that might have been me."

So, we're moving from "nurse discretely so I don't have to look at your boobies" to "nurse discretely because I don't want to see how fat you are?" I didn't need to hear the story of how fat people gross out your husband. Really.

And I wish everyone would stop comparing the uncoverage associated with breastfeeding to junk like big hairy men in speedos, workers with their butt cracks hanging out, prostitutes, nudists and Hooter's girls. To each his own.

I get negative reactions when I'm smaller rather than larger. I think the reason for that, though, is that people look and me and don't expect me to be a bfer, especially with my giant pudgy 18 month old daughter. I'm thin for my height, and I'm youngish so I barely look like I should HAVE said daughter at all. So people are more likely to be like "whoah!" when they see me lift up my shirt NOW than say, right after delivery when I've still got a good 30 lbs on me.

Not trying to insult anybody, just validating the point the OP was making. If y'all would like me to erase my post, I will.

I am not sure how to say this without sounding harsh, but that really does not validate the point i was trying to make what so ever.

I am not sure erasing it would help, it seems to have already hurt people.

I read comments all the time about people saying we should not NIP because it is "disgusting", I suppose I always thought that the act of nursing was what was deemed disgusting, now i wonder how much people are refering to the woman's breasts or body. Breasts not used in a sexual manner seem to bother peole a lot.

So, we're moving from "nurse discretely so I don't have to look at your boobies" to "nurse discretely because I don't want to see how fat you are?" I didn't need to hear the story of how fat people gross out your husband. Really.

And I wish everyone would stop comparing the uncoverage associated with breastfeeding to junk like big hairy men in speedos, workers with their butt cracks hanging out, prostitutes, nudists and Hooter's girls. To each his own.

Yeah, really. I'm sorry but this is getting really sick. Not to mention counterproductive. I'm about ready to lock myself in my bedroom and not leave until my kid is weaned. I was nursed until I was three and a half myself, and truly consider formula to be something that is a last-ditch solution. So I am hardly a halfassed supporter of breastfeeding. I'm committed. But nonetheless, all this feedback about how disgusting my body is, and how it makes people and/or their husbands feel sick to see me exposing my gelatinous rolls of ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ cup boob flesh to feed my baby, how I am insulting the dignity of every person I encounter by baring my pasty, flabby, disgusting body right up to the nasty areolas and repugnant nipples...I want to hide. I never want to nurse in public again. I wish I could become invisible. I feel the way I felt when I read the Malleus Maleficarum--angry, but also embarrassed, ashamed. I feel like I stink, even as I am mad at being made to feel that way.

Of course I WILL nurse in public again, because my baby needs to eat and I haven't yet figured out a way to get Starbucks and the library to deliver to my home, so I have to leave the house. So I'll be out there, on the bus, on the train, in the cafe, in the library, lord forbid it maybe even in a Chuck E. Cheese. I'll be offending delicate sensibilities and making people's poor husbands gag on their mozzerella. I'll be letting those disgusting quintuple Z cups flap in the wind, sans "hooter hider." What can I say, you gotta do what you gotta do.:gloomy:

:lol Belgian Sheep Dog, will you be my new best friend? We can purchase a king size bedspread and both hide under it when we want to take our children out in public. Gawd, I'm laughing so hard at that image right now.

Oh, I need to get under the king-sized comforter as well I guess. I had never thought that a man who supports breastfeeding could then turn around and be sickened by my body while I do so, KWIM? I didn't realize that in order to nurse in public without making those around me vomit I needed to have small, perky breasts and a washboard belly. I guess the extra 80lbs I carry and my gianormous breasts take away from my child's need to eat. So sorry Edie, I can't feed you in public anylonger because my fatness now stands in the way..... if only you were born to a slimmer, more attractive mama.

To the OP, I do think that a mother's looks can effect how she is treated by others for NIP. If she is young, old, educated looking, poor in appearance, punk, goth, preppie, etc..... I can totally see how it could change how people treat her. Generally, people are only going to approach those who in some way look vulnerable to them. Who wants to pick a fight with someone who would kick their behind? I do think this is also where confidence comes into play big time. I was 30lbs overweight with my first child and now with my third I am more about 80lbs overweight. I am treated better now while NIP than before. I think though too I am so confident about NIP, I don't look open to people's opinions on it, I am more than willing to take on someone who starts something with me over it, etc. Or, maybe they are just afraid to confront me as they are scared I might sit on them or eat them.... or box them with my tremedous ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ cup breasts! :lol

I like to think that people do not make comments so much because I look like i will rip them a new one. :loveeyes:



crew the comforter.. I should be charging admission.

Not NIP so much as nursing in general.

I got loads of crap when I was a young first-time mom. LOADS of it. Not a bad word now from anyone, and when the couple of people who have said anything DID say anything, they tread *very, very lightly*.

I think that before I put on all this weight (after my first was born I was still pretty small), when I was nursing at 115lbs with size A boobs, people kind of wondered how on earth I could sustain a child. Which is their own stupidity showing, but of course, people can rarely keep their stupidity to themselves.

The first negative reaction I've gotten in a couple years happened at the Portland Airport two weeks ago, where some lady was STARING at me while I nursed 19mo DD. I caught her eye and STARED right back. OMG we had a staring contest right there in the airport!

I am a pretty 'invisible' person; there's nothing particularly catching or attractive about me, and neither is there anything particularly unattractive about me. I think 'invisible' people like me rarely catch any flak unless someone is determined to be an asshat anyway.

I really don't know. I'm pretty thin and very young looking, and the only comment I've ever gotten was not made directly to me. Only dh heard it. I also agree with Angela, that your attitute has a lot to do with it. Interesting discussion.

Hmmm... the confidence issue might be right on.
I was 20 when I had my first son. I lived in a town where you never saw anyone breastfeeding. I was the subject of many a negative comment about my age... I might have looked younger as well. Couple that with the fact that I breastfed ANYWHERE , think grocery store lineup, uncovered.. I even had people write to the editor of the local paper about me! I had preteen boys follow me trying to get a peek, I had an elderly man reach in to stroke my sons cheelk while he was feeding, and I had women physically try to cover me with coats, blankets etc.! I wasnt insecure about breastfeeding, but I was insecure about feeling under scrutiny all of the time because of my age... and possibly the breastfeeding! Anyhow, with my second son two years later I didnt feel insecure at all. I live in a small town where I see nursing mamas.... I know that I made a few people uncomfortable ... but they got over it.

Oh yes... and I have small breasts.... really.... nothing much at all shows when I breastfeed.

I don't question whether people with great bodies are given more slack when it comes to other people's assessment of "discretion". I'm sure they are. That's why I'm so opposed to having to bend over backwards to appease potential onlookers and why I'm opposed to legislation where the word "discreet" is included. All people have a right to NIP and it shouldn't be contingent on the populations opinion of your body.
my .02

:clap :nod :clap I don't question whether people with great bodies are given more slack when it comes to other people's assessment of "discretion". I'm sure they are. That's why I'm so opposed to having to bend over backwards to appease potential onlookers and why I'm opposed to legislation where the word "discreet" is included. All people have a right to NIP and it shouldn't be contingent on the populations opinion of your body.
my .02 :clap :nod :clap

exactly!!

:lol Belgian Sheep Dog, will you be my new best friend? We can purchase a king size bedspread and both hide under it when we want to take our children out in public. Gawd, I'm laughing so hard at that image right now.

Alrighty, just no paisley and none of those '80s style geometric patterns on our bedspread, OK? Let's keep things modest, discreet, and tasteful, here. Maybe something in beige.

Being overweight does have an effect on continuing to breastfeed. Not a big surprise given the stigma attached to being overweight, especially among women.

This is from The Breastfeeding Cafe which is my new favorite book:

"Researchers have observed that compared to normal-weight women, overweight and obese women are between 2.5 and 3 times more likely to stop [breastfeeding] by the time they leave the hospital. And the rate continues to plummet over the next few weeks (Hilson, Pasmussen, and Kjolhede 1997)"

There's also a great personal story by a woman-of-size who shares her pride at having nursed her DC and how it helped her to overcome some of the internalized shame she had about her body. It seems to me that women-of-size nursing in public are striking two blows against the patriarchy!

So brava! :clap to that mama in Chuck E Cheese and all the other MDC mamas who are "gorgeous round mamas," as well as those those with tattoos, A cups and F cups, who are bringing their nursing selves into the public sphere!

i think it is a confidence issue as well. I have to comment on the people with hurt feelings about the pp. I understand it hurts to hear a comment that you feel applies to you or what not, but I let that stuff roll off. Im 170 and 5'4. I have rolls. My momma has rolls and my dearest aunt has lots rolls too . Its so common for me to see some rolls i dont even notice. My sis, poor sis, is sooo tiny she gets blamed for being anorexic. By docs, family, her partner. Shes just little, after two kids, just tiny tiny tiny. My dh is attracted to some meat, sharp bony bits would not appeal to HIM. Ive heard him say to me.."jen did you see how skinny that girl is? gross." I dont think ANY body is gross. But I know that I have counseled my OLDER sister countless times as she CRIED wishing she could gain weight, praying for five more pounds so people would leave her alone. She is so self concience about it, People will literally say, "your so skinny, eat something" It kills her. All of it is personal preference.
My point is that i dont think that your size or looks have much to do about how you get treated for breastfeeding. I think its more about your confidence.

i may have rambled.... but the post about staying indoors and covering with blankets made me sad. Even if you all were joking.... just seemed so self deprecating. Who cares if some men would get grossed out by rolls? Mine doesnt. Yours doesnt. Celebrate it.

That's interesting, forshure, I didn't know those statistics. Motivates me to continue being visible.

It cuts both ways. I'm a petite blonde and I tend to dress on the sexy end of classy, and I've had men look completely skeeved when I blatantly latch DD on...like I can't be a sexual being *and* a nursing mother. :shrug

Bottom line is if someone's lactophobic - it doesn't matter if you're Mama Cass or Marilyn Monroe. If someone has that mindset - there is no "type" that will not "offend" them by NIP, KWIM? Good thing the only person I care about making happy is my nursling:mischief :moon

For my more generously proportioned sisters...rock on with your curvy, beautiful, nursing selves!!:thumb

How much do you think a mother's "looks" affects people's public attitudes with breastfeeding?
You ask this question, yet you go on to say this....
My original question was really about the sexualization of the female body.

Your question asks nothing about sexualization. It seems rather specific to "looks"...how does a mother's looks affect people's attitudes toward breastfeeding?
After going back and reading my post, I can see why some mommas are offended. My intention was not to point out what my husband is attracted to, and that seems to be the only thing that stands out in my post. I appologize to those of you who are offended.
I understand that using my husband's reaction as an example wasn't the best, because he is supportive of NIP. The woman's "looks" didn't affect his perception of NIP......but his initial thought DOES echo the perception of a lot of men in regards to NIP. I have had men flat out tell me that they don't mind seeing hot women nurse...it's the "(insert insulting explative) women" that "shouldn't be exposing themselves". I've seen this statement on other forums, and I've heard it with my own two ears.
Do I agree with this? Absolutely not.
So, to answer the orginal question simply....yes, I do believe that a mommas "looks" affects people's perception of breastfeeding. My question is....should we care? I believe the answer is "no".



I had never thought that a man who supports breastfeeding could then turn around and be sickened by my body while I do so, KWIM?

I don't know what you mean. Support and attraction are not one in the same. A man does not need to be attracted to a woman's body in order to be supportive of breastfeeding/NIP.

I don't know what you mean. Support and attraction are not one in the same. A man does not need to be attracted to a woman's body in order to be supportive of breastfeeding/NIP.

No, he doesn't have to be attracted to me, but there is a large distance between being atracted to and disgusted by. If someone is truely supportive of NIP, breastfeeding in general, and caring for a child as a primary then it shouldn't matter what the mama in question looked like at all. When I see a mama out NIP, I could care less if she is fat, thin, ugly, pretty, young, old, etc... it just shouldn't factor in, I wouldn't decide that a bottle feeding mama shouldn't feed her baby due to the fact that she is too (whatever). Oh, and for a man's point of view as well... my husband is a lactavist as well and he does not feel that the looks of a mother should matter at all to anyone for any reason, the mother isn't trying to seduce him, she is trying to feed her child.

If someone is truely supportive of NIP, breastfeeding in general, and caring for a child as a primary then it shouldn't matter what the mama in question looked like at all.

I'm not sure about this. Her husband IS supportive of NIP and in no way expected that mom to cover up or stop for his benefit. But, he was honest enough to say he was [ooh, I really hard to find the right word] turned off, maybe, as opposed to attracted.

And time for my true confession. I've been around many nursing mothers for many years and have seen a fair amount. I am not a professional or a lactation consultant and generally I'm squeamish around other people's bodies. Recently, I was in a location where nursing mom's were welcomed with open arms. No worries about unsupportive attitudes. Well, I looked up and saw a mom putting her babe to the breast, and I felt uncomfortable. There was something about that particular image that made me feel like Barbara Walters. She wasn't close to me, and I am embarrassed by my response. She wasn't thin, but I would call her obese, just sort of average. I can't put my finger on what my problem was.

But my point is, it's not my discomfort that determines whether I'm a lactivist, it's what I do with it. Unlike Barbara, I put the responsibility where it belongs, on me. This is one more area where I need to broaden my awareness and tolerance, and I thought I was doing OK. Unequivicably, this mom was doing what was best for her and her baby, they had every right to breastfeed in anyway they saw fit without regard to my response.

Originally Posted by hawkfeather
How much do you think a mother's "looks" affects people's public attitudes with breastfeeding?

You ask this question, yet you go on to say this....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkfeather
My original question was really about the sexualization of the female body.

I am sorry, i don't get your point.. you say this story about your dh was "validating" my op- as far as i can see your comment had nothing at all to do with this woman "breastfeeding" or your dh's attitude about nursing.

My OP was -how does it affect people's attitudes in corelation with BREASTFEEDING..Your dh's opinion on overweight women has nothing to do with it as I see. I didn't ask about people's views on our "look's" the question is how does it affect the public perception of NIP?

My original question was really about the sexualization of the female body. I find it ironic and about as painful as humanly possible that when i was about 130 i was viewed as a more sexual being.. even with a spinning out of control eating disorder, the UN healthy i have been.. and now healthy at 200 pounds I am viewed as wrong by our warped ideals.

I asked this question not to invite negative comments about heavy mommas at all, but to dialouge about the sexual nature in which we are viewed. To me anyone having a sexual association in relation to thier problems with NIP instantly invalidates the public decency issues argued far and wide.

I suspect that the breastfeeding is the issue because people can not oogle a woman on the same level if she is being maternal. If there was no baby and just a pair of breats half the people complaining would be cheering.

As an overweight momma I can not say that comments implying *disgust* at me breastfeeding bother me much.. I am used to the attitude and I have seen far too many Gorgeous Round Goddess mommas breastfeeding to be fooled.

This was just a thought- after reading a therad that included comments about large breasted women.

How much do you think a mother's "looks" affects people's public attitudes with breastfeeding?

I can say my weigth have been all over the map, and just now i sat and thought about it a bit. I would think like most things when i was overweight i would catch more flack but when i think about my *own* situation it was the opposite, when i was thin people gave me a hard time about nursing. When i had smaller breasts people complained more.

Now i haev no idea if this amounts to anything.. but i have five kids and in my own experince it has been true.

I am just curious to se what others think about this?

I think it speaks a lot to how ridiculous it is when people find fault with public nursing.

whether or not you intended it, when reading this, it sounds as if the topic you are starting is

"do your "looks" affect people's public attitudes with breastfeeding?"

The response story about a members husband gave you a direct answer to your question-
Even though her husband may have been "put off" by an overweight woman, he in no way wanted her to stop NIP, he encouraged the act of NIP for her and everyone else. So your answer is there- LOOKS ARE A PERSONAL PREFERENCE BUT PEOPLE WHO ARE FOR NIP ARE FOR IT. Looks aside,People against nursing in public will no doubt use many excuses to be against it.

whether or not you intended it, when reading this, it sounds as if the topic you are starting is

"do your "looks" affect people's public attitudes with breastfeeding?"
.

That is why i am clarifying.

I can not control how my words are percieved but if i am told someone is "validating" my opinion and they are incorrect about what my opinion is should i not correct what i "meant"? I am not saying i didn't express my point poorly.. I am simply clarifying what i mean.

I think it is a valid conversation to chat about how our varying bodies affects how we are treated, nursing or not.

What I am saying is that I find it lessens the validity of an argument that NIP is 'wrong' when i think perhaps their issue with NIP is that 'my' breast's.. (or any nursing moher's) are a sexual object and should not be used otherwise.

I hear few people admitting that is thier issue with NIP- I hear things like.. gross or wrong, and I am wondering how much it is actually about sexual interests.

I didn't see much in this story about her husband "encouraging" nip, I didn't see much relation to his disgust in this momma's weight with nip at all. You said he had no issue with her NIP and encouraged it for all. But I am not sure what you mean. How did he? He didn't have a problem with her breastfeeding, but had she not lifted her shirt to nurse he wouldn't of had to been exposed to her body that seemingly made him ill. That isn't very encouraging to me. It still relates to body judgment and nursing.. I see that. But the momma who posted already recognized her post offended some and apoligized- so my issues with how and what she said are delt with really.

All i am trying to say was even if i communicated it poorly, that the point i was *trying* to make was about the sexualization of our bodies and how it relates to arguments against NIP.

slightly OT- Is anyone else laughing at the image of the woman at Chucky Cheese with her shirt up, breast hanging out, waiting for her toddler to latch on? Oh, if only I had the b**ls to do that! Just let 'em hang out, waiting for my toddler to latch! I am not afraid to NIP at all, but I've never exposed my whole breast, waiting for my dd or ds to get on! I LOVE IT!!! If I were there, I'd have given her the :thumb !

but this is what he said...(after telling me he was grossed out as having seen the boob and the rolls) "I didn't react, because I didn't want her to feel uncomfortable. I didn't want her to think I was grossed out by public breastfeeding. Infact, I wanted to cheer her on, more mommas need to be breastfeding their babies." I know had it been a slender lady with nice plump tatas, he wouldn't have looked away, and he wouldn't have been grossed out.
I suppose there is some validity to the idea that a mother's appearance and/or attitude has an affect on the public's perception of NIP. I always nursed my son with a big smile....well, with exception of those first couple of weeks:p

i understand that she apologized.
I put in bold the part where i interpreted that he was encouraging to nip (wanting to cheer her on).

i am simply pointing out that i think a portion of what she said got pulled out and pounced on because it understandably hurt feelings.

but that I think she made a point in relation to the op.
Thats all.

Yeah, really. I'm sorry but this is getting really sick. Not to mention counterproductive. I'm about ready to lock myself in my bedroom and not leave until my kid is weaned. I was nursed until I was three and a half myself, and truly consider formula to be something that is a last-ditch solution. So I am hardly a halfassed supporter of breastfeeding. I'm committed. But nonetheless, all this feedback about how disgusting my body is, and how it makes people and/or their husbands feel sick to see me exposing my gelatinous rolls of ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ cup boob flesh to feed my baby, how I am insulting the dignity of every person I encounter by baring my pasty, flabby, disgusting body right up to the nasty areolas and repugnant nipples...I want to hide. I never want to nurse in public again. I wish I could become invisible. I feel the way I felt when I read the Malleus Maleficarum--angry, but also embarrassed, ashamed. I feel like I stink, even as I am mad at being made to feel that way.

Of course I WILL nurse in public again, because my baby needs to eat and I haven't yet figured out a way to get Starbucks and the library to deliver to my home, so I have to leave the house. So I'll be out there, on the bus, on the train, in the cafe, in the library, lord forbid it maybe even in a Chuck E. Cheese. I'll be offending delicate sensibilities and making people's poor husbands gag on their mozzerella. I'll be letting those disgusting quintuple Z cups flap in the wind, sans "hooter hider." What can I say, you gotta do what you gotta do.:gloomy:

I have to applaud you wholeheartedly! :thumb It doesn't matter how grossed out anyone feels, your (and my) breastfeeding and breast size is none of their business. I know how hard it is to be self-conscious of your body, my daughter wouldn't tolerate being covered at all, so when I nursed, people could see everything. And now, I'm weighing 10+ pounds heavier than I did when this pregnant with my first (39 weeks pg) and my cup size is one size larger than a year ago. Sure, I've been made to feel embarrassed by looks some stupid person has given me, and even blushed, but it didn't stop me and it won't. People can be stupid, vain and judgemental, but I won't let their shallowness get me down.

i understand that she apologized.
I put in bold the part where i interpreted that he was encouraging to nip (wanting to cheer her on).

i am simply pointing out that i think a portion of what she said got pulled out and pounced on because it understandably hurt feelings.

but that I think she made a point in relation to the op.
Thats all.

Yep.. I am just trygni to clarify what I meant as my original point. I take responsibility for it not being stated clearly, that is why i am clarifying.

What I am saying is that I find it lessens the validity of an argument that NIP is 'wrong' when i think perhaps their issue with NIP is that 'my' breast's.. (or any nursing moher's) are a sexual object and should not be used otherwise.

I hear few people admitting that is thier issue with NIP- I hear things like.. gross or wrong, and I am wondering how much it is actually about sexual interests.

This was my point as well - again, my emphasis added here. I am 190 lbs. and 5'6" and the only time I got any nasty looks from anyone was while I was dressed in a sexy costume while nursing at a dance festival.

But except for that instance, I don't care what people think of me NIP and no one has ever said anything to me. I make eye contact with people all the time and smile, too.

I halfway expected to get some looks or comments a couple weeks ago when I NIP'd my 3 yr. old at a small town diner. The waitress looked surprised, but I didn't make anything of it, and neither did she.

This makes me think of another thing related to the perceived issue of nursing mothers as sexual objects. I think this is why some people are so weird about extended nursing, because somehow people against EBF see it as a sexual act rather than a natural, nurturing, motherly act?

What do you all think about EBF and this issue?

i fully agree.
I have heard people say outright that nursing too long will turn kids gay or into perverts.

For what it is worth I would have been moved to see you in costume nursing your bub!! I think that must have been divine!

So brava! :clap to that mama in Chuck E Cheese and all the other MDC mamas who are "gorgeous round mamas," as well as those those with tattoos, A cups and F cups, who are bringing their nursing selves into the public sphere!

hell yes!

Hello :)

Judging from some of the above posts, I should be target material.
I am beautiful/sexy, fit/slender, and very shy/timid in person.

Yet, I'm on my third nursling with no comments under my belt, and I've moved around a lot.

I think this is because I'm never alone. I am always with my family. I cannot imagine anyone approaching me with my husband standing there.

Perhaps this is even more of an issue than looks?

No, he doesn't have to be attracted to me, but there is a large distance between being atracted to and disgusted by. If someone is truely supportive of NIP, breastfeeding in general, and caring for a child as a primary then it shouldn't matter what the mama in question looked like at all. When I see a mama out NIP, I could care less if she is fat, thin, ugly, pretty, young, old, etc... it just shouldn't factor in, I wouldn't decide that a bottle feeding mama shouldn't feed her baby due to the fact that she is too (whatever). Oh, and for a man's point of view as well... my husband is a lactavist as well and he does not feel that the looks of a mother should matter at all to anyone for any reason, the mother isn't trying to seduce him, she is trying to feed her child.

I think you're reading into this a bit too much, and making more of it than it really is. My husband does not feel the looks of a mother should factor into her decision or right to nurse (where in my post did I insiuate this?). He does not feel a mother should worry about HIS, or anybody's comfort while nursing a child. Neither one of us cares about the size, shape, color, age or beauty of anybody else, let alone a nursing momma. My husband is truely supportive of nursing, regardless of what you may think.

I don't know what you mean. Support and attraction are not one in the same. A man does not need to be attracted to a woman's body in order to be supportive of breastfeeding/NIP.

yeah...maybe that would work...except you didn't say he "was not attracted" to the woman. you used words like "skeeved" "grossed out" and "rolls".

there is a big difference between being "not attracted" to someone, and being "grossed out" and "skeeved" from having to see their "rolls".

do you see the difference?

also, yesterday you said if you offended anyone you would edit your post. it seems you have offended people. if that was not your intention then maybe editing your post would be a good idea. i know if you had done that yesterday then i would never have read it (and would not now be thinking about how many people i've skeeved with my rolls :o )

Well people who post on MDC are human too. So he didn't say "yuck!" to the woman at Chuck E. Cheese. But how do you think it makes lardbutts like me feel to hear stories about how repulsive we are that we make strangers in restaurants queasy and uncomfortable just because we're out there living our lives?

I mean for pete's sake.

Yeah, really. I'm sorry but this is getting really sick. Not to mention counterproductive. I'm about ready to lock myself in my bedroom and not leave until my kid is weaned. I was nursed until I was three and a half myself, and truly consider formula to be something that is a last-ditch solution. So I am hardly a halfassed supporter of breastfeeding. I'm committed. But nonetheless, all this feedback about how disgusting my body is, and how it makes people and/or their husbands feel sick to see me exposing my gelatinous rolls of ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ cup boob flesh to feed my baby, how I am insulting the dignity of every person I encounter by baring my pasty, flabby, disgusting body right up to the nasty areolas and repugnant nipples...I want to hide. I never want to nurse in public again. I wish I could become invisible. I feel the way I felt when I read the Malleus Maleficarum--angry, but also embarrassed, ashamed. I feel like I stink, even as I am mad at being made to feel that way.

Of course I WILL nurse in public again, because my baby needs to eat and I haven't yet figured out a way to get Starbucks and the library to deliver to my home, so I have to leave the house. So I'll be out there, on the bus, on the train, in the cafe, in the library, lord forbid it maybe even in a Chuck E. Cheese. I'll be offending delicate sensibilities and making people's poor husbands gag on their mozzerella. I'll be letting those disgusting quintuple Z cups flap in the wind, sans "hooter hider." What can I say, you gotta do what you gotta do.:gloomy:

At the risk of sounding insensitive...my post wasn't about you. It wasn't a personal attack on you or anybody else for that matter. I never made such a description (as you did above) of a heavy person in or outside of this thread...and niether did my husband. The scenario wasn't as dramatic as you percieve....he didn't gag on anything, his "delicate sensitivities" weren't hurt.
I'm sad you feel so bad about yourself. I'm sad that my post made you feel so defensive, and I'm sorry for offending you.

yeah...maybe that would work...except you didn't say he "was not attracted" to the woman. you used words like "skeeved" "grossed out" and "rolls".

there is a big difference between being "not attracted" to someone, and being "grossed out" and "skeeved" from having to see their "rolls".

do you see the difference?

also, yesterday you said if you offended anyone you would edit your post. it seems you have offended people. if that was not your intention then maybe editing your post would be a good idea. i know if you had done that yesterday then i would never have read it (and would not now be thinking about how many people i've skeeved with my rolls :o )

Yes..I see the difference. As for editing my post, I was told by the op it wouldn't matter. My post was already quoted in it's entirity...you certainly would've read it.

No, excuse me? "Rolls" and "skeeved"...hell yes it was a personal attack. On anyone who doesn't meet some arbitrary standard of attractiveness. How would you feel knowing that people were "skeeved" at the sight of you minding your own business, going about your daily tasks?

No, excuse me? "Rolls" and "skeeved"...hell yes it was a personal attack. On anyone who doesn't meet some arbitrary standard of attractiveness. How would you feel knowing that people were "skeeved" at the sight of you minding your own business, going about your daily tasks?

I beg to differ. You are choosing to taking it as a personal attack. It wasn't a personal attack on you or anybody. I didn't name you, I didn't point a finger, I didn't single you out....or anybody else for that matter.
I'm covered with tattoos...people are SKEEVED by me everyday. People pull their children close to them when they see me. People feel free to make rude comments directly to my face. I would lie if I said those direct comments didn't hurt me at times....otherwise, the looks of disgust, the fear...I own it. I am who I am, and I will continue to be me, regardless of what others think.

It wasn't a personal attack on you or anybody.

not on a specific known mdc mama, no...but it would no doubt be very personal to that mama at chuck e cheese, dontcha think? how many mamas here do you imagine have now thought back to their last cec visit thinking you might be talking about them? you very well might have been talking about an mdc mama and not even know it. :( she may have read your post and been mortified. she was just feeding her kiddoe. neither of them asked your grossed out husband to look, or you to comment on her rolls on a huge internet forum.

not on a specific known mdc mama, no...but it would no doubt be very personal to that mama at chuck e cheese, dontcha think?
yes
how many mamas here do you imagine have now thought back to their last cec visit thinking you might be talking about them?
I don't know
you very well might have been talking about an mdc mama and not even know it.
possibly, and that would be unfortunate

she may have read your post and been mortified. she was just feeding her kiddoe. neither of them asked your grossed out husband to look
of course nobody asked, and he didn't make a choice to look, he made a choice to look away

or you to comment on her rolls on a huge internet forum.
this is the pot calling the kettle black here. nobody asks to be talked about on the internet. we, that being all of us mommas here on MDC, talk about other people quite often on these boards, and it isn't always positive.

...and really....I get it. I think some of you think I'm an insensitive jerk...so be it. I tried to appologized...take it or leave it. To the OP...I'm sorry your thread has been hijacked. I wont post anymore so that this thread can get back to the topic it was meant to discuss. If anybody chooses to respond to anything I have said, please just PM me. Thank you.

I agree with a PP that if someone's against NIP, they're against NIP no matter what the mother's appearance is. But I do think that people's attitudes are different depending on the mother's appearance. I'm young(many say I look like a teenager) and I feel like that makes people more disapproving of me NIP.

Also, I see frenchie's point and I don't see how it doesn't relate to the topic. :scratch I know a couple males who have made comments implying that they prefer to see stereotypically "attractive" women nursing rather than stereotypically "unattractive" ones. Unfortunate, yes, but typical in our society. The one time I was harassed for NIP was when I was in a trendy LA bar/restaurant filled with skinny women in revealing clothes. I was 6 weeks postpartum and huge(the largest woman there I believe). I guess the patron(s) who complained and the hostess were fine with seeing maximum amounts of skin of the women with model figures but my saggy breasts and stretch-marked stomach were too much of an eyesore. :shrug Of course it's hurtful when someone is disgusted by my body, but I know there are also people disgusted by how I dress, act, parent, etc.

People can be stupid, vain and judgemental, but I won't let their shallowness get me down.

Is it OK on this thread to insult people? How is it stupid, vain or shallow to have a negative response to someone else's body?

No, excuse me? "Rolls" and "skeeved"...hell yes it was a personal attack.

Who was it a personal attack on? The husband was supportive of the woman's right to BF. He described his response. I didn't see any judgment.

(I can see how the chosen words come across as insulting though, but we've already hashed that out)

Although is may seem reasonable to you to be "grossed out" by the form of another person's body... but it's no more reasonable than being "grossed out" by the color of someone's skin.

Although is may seem reasonable to you to be "grossed out" by the form of another person's body... but it's no more reasonable than being "grossed out" by the color of someone's skin.

We are often not in control of our initial reactions, and it sounds like this one took this man by surprise. They both (he and his MDC wife posting about it) are only being honest. This is entirely on topic here, and kinda just goes to show that the programming runs deep. It is offensive, yes, but sometimes the truth hurts and it does us a disservice to pretend the world out there revolves around the same values as MDC. Fatphobia is a pretty serious problem in the world-at-large, and of course that spills over into something like how offensive someone finds NIP.

My belly is hideously ugly right now and not just because of the fat rolls (I'm not overweight but this is where AAAAALLLL the fat goes); but also because of abdominal separation, stretch marks that look like ROPES beneath my skin...it is just not a pretty picture. I am horribly self-conscious about baring my belly in public because I KNOW that it startles even other women. It is a shame that when I NIP I have to feel like that at all, but that is my own burden; I haven't worked so hard on not caring what others think of my belly. I have a few double shirt outfits, or when I am wearing an overshirt or a sweater I NIP without a care, it is not the act itself but my desire not to show my belly that keeps me self-conscious in public.

That said, I just realized that I was wearing a flirty red skirt at the airport when I had my staredown and while I doubt I looked overtly sexy, I certainly looked better than I do on my normal trip to the grocery store.

Maybe men on average give bad looks when a less attractive woman NIPs and women when an attractive woman does it.
Most men can't help seeing breastfeeding as something sexual. Even my DH got turned on watching me breastfeeding in the beginning.

Carma

OMG...why does everything little thing that ever gets posted have to be picked to death. And why do people get so damn offended or get their feelings hurt so easily?

I think you all should lay off FRENCHIE. She clearly did not intend to offend anyone or hurt their feelings. No one seemed to care that her husband is supportive of nursing, just that he was grossed out at the woman's rolls....Who cares? A man is a man no matter how supportive he is of NIP or BF in general. His reaction was normal in my opinion, as a matter of fact most of your husbands, partners or boyfriends would probably have felt the same way, they just may not have voiced it to you. She even stated in her post that he didn't look away because he didn't want her to feel uncomfortable...:clap good for him. My boyfriend has many tattoos and piercings and people look at him like he is a convict sometimes....WHO CARES??? He is a wonderful person and anyone that knows him will tell you that. We don't go around whining all the time because people look at him funny. I have a few "rolls" of my own since i have had the baby and sometimes I am self concious about it, but I could care less who likes it or not and I don't and wouldn't get my feelings hurt if someone said something. My boyfriend loves me all the same...when I have got down in the past about my weight he always says" Honey...it's not fat, it was Jaryn's house for 9 months and where he laid his little head"

I think society has made BF sexual and women think they have to be skinny to be attractive and that is why so many women have eating disorders. If you are a bf mama you are beautiful whether you weigh 450 lbs or 100 lbs. Be proud of yourself...you made a person and you are nurturing that person. If people don't like what they see they don't have to look, but at the same time don't judge someone or think they are a jerk because they were honest enough to say they didn't like what they saw but in the same breath almost he applauded the woman for NIP and I think he did take her feelings into consideration by not making a disgusted face or turning his head as soon as he saw flesh. I am sure this will piss someone off as well, but apparently anything you say these days makes someone mad.

so....:twothumbs to the woman who showed her boob and her rolls in Chuck E. Cheese and to all the other skin showing mamas.


Proud Mommy to Jaryn 4-16-06 :2bfbabe: :novax: :nocirc2

Yes..I see the difference. As for editing my post, I was told by the op it wouldn't matter. My post was already quoted in it's entirity...you certainly would've read it.

it dosen't matter to ME i already read it.

if anyone wants it gone i honour that too.

I didn't like what it said, but she already awknowledged it was offensive, apoligized AND it is removed now.
No one owe's me an apology for hijacking, on some level i think this thread probably speaks to the issues that were rbought up pretty well, in a sad sort of way.


i also wanted to say that people choose to get tattoo's and piercings, they choose what they look like, women (or men) who are over weight often have no choice. I am not sure i find the comparison very relevant.

People defend Someone's rigth to share a story, than they should regonize the rigth to share an opinion about it as well.

i also wanted to say that people choose to get tattoo's and piercings, they choose what they look like, women (or men) who are over weight often have no choice. I am not sure i find the comparison very relevant.



i am overweight because I choose not to exercise off more calories than i intake. do you really feel that people OFTEN have no choice? thyroid issues aside. even gentic predispostion that makes it harder for one to stay thin doesnt necessarily take away our choices in life that effect our weight.

i am definitely overweight by quite a bit. so im not judging overweight people, but this response really struck me hard. I have never heard anyone say this before.

i am overweight because I choose not to exercise off more calories than i intake. do you really feel that people OFTEN have no choice? thyroid issues aside. even gentic predispostion that makes it harder for one to stay thin doesnt necessarily take away our choices in life that effect our weight.

i am definitely overweight by quite a bit. so im not judging overweight people, but this response really struck me hard. I have never heard anyone say this before.

I think choosing to alter your "looks" in a manner you LIKE, ie; tattoos and piercings if very differant from being overweight. Having to work to alter your body shape into one that means you will not be discriminated against or insulted isn't the same as conciously choosing a body you enjoy.

If someone is overweight because they choose to be and had to actually strive to be overweight, than maybe i would find tattoos comparable.

I could work harder to excersize off the calories i take in but right now i have NO choice.. the only time i can sit here is when i am nursing- it would mean dramatically altering my life just to appease some stereotypes of what i should look like.

If you have a genetic predispostion to be heavy than you have to work *against* nature just to be treated half decent in this culture. Just because someone has the capablilities to do something does not mean that *not* doing it was a choice.

obviously "no choice" is not universal.. but it certainly applies and aside from eating disorders, thyroid, genetics, medications, certain diseases, hormone imbalaces.. sometimes life it's self means you have no choice in the moment. I even consider a concious refusal to loose weight just to be *accepted* no choice. I could easily say that my body is my body, I have NO choice but to accept it..

All I am saying is that comparing being discriminated against for having tattoos and comparing being treated poorly for being overweight makes little sense to me.

It cuts both ways. I'm a petite blonde and I tend to dress on the sexy end of classy, and I've had men look completely skeeved when I blatantly latch DD on...like I can't be a sexual being *and* a nursing mother. :shrug

Bottom line is if someone's lactophobic - it doesn't matter if you're Mama Cass or Marilyn Monroe. If someone has that mindset - there is no "type" that will not "offend" them by NIP, KWIM? Good thing the only person I care about making happy is my nursling:mischief :moon

For my more generously proportioned sisters...rock on with your curvy, beautiful, nursing selves!!:thumb

I have to second this. I am not heavy, after I gave birth to my son and breastfed, I was at pre-preg weight of about 105 lbs with really uhm, big boobs cause of the breastfeeding. and I got nasty looks (never a comment but god, at least with comments I could have argued back and not felt all little and stupid) so I dont *know* if it could be weight related or if some of you have/have had it worse. so we'll see how it goes this time, because THEN I was still shy and nervous enough to cover myself and my son. I refuse to do that now :)

Although is may seem reasonable to you to be "grossed out" by the form of another person's body... but it's no more reasonable than being "grossed out" by the color of someone's skin.

I think you mean this as a dig. But yes, I think being grossed out by another's body, or skin color, or big feet, or bound feet, or body smell,
or bald head, any other aspect of another's physical body is just a part of being. Frankly, I find my own skin color grosses me out sometimes.

But somehow it's seems as if you are saying that admitting to being grossed out by someone's body is the same as discriminating, or being prejudiced, or bigoted or something. I just don't see that.

Misogyny, homophobia, and racism all have strong elements of disgust to them. You know, "women are dirty," "gays are diseased," that kind of thing.

Misogyny, homophobia, and racism all have strong elements of disgust to them. You know, "women are dirty," "gays are diseased," that kind of thing.

I don't think that anyone is denying that fatphobia (or whatever you want to call the societal bias against any sort of not-rail-thin appearance) exists, or endorsing its existance.

I saw a 70-80 year old woman (I was not that close to her) this weekend wearing a bikini. She was wrinkly, fat, chubby, with rolls... she was in a bikini... a high-waisted bikini,but still a bikini! No skirt, no ruffles, no nothing. Bikini!

I thought she was beautiful and amazing. Maybe if we were all exposed to more different body types we could be more accepting of each other, instead of being so freaked out by a fat belly or a thin belly or a whatever belly or a whatever body part. I felt like cheering this lady on! :) The attitude of "I don't need to see a fat butt/belly/arm/whatever" absolutely drives me crazy... the same people who say things like that usually see no problem whatsoever with things I find much more offensive... I'd prefer us all (including myself) to be a little more tolerant of each others differences instead of holding each person up to some bizarre standard of beauty.

I'd prefer us all (including myself) to be a little more tolerant of each others differences instead of holding each person up to some bizarre standard of beauty.
that is lovely!


i just wanted to add.
:flyby2 :3bfkid: :bfing: :2bfbaby: :1bftot:
i think the one with the sling looks topless.

luvin the skin.

I saw a 70-80 year old woman (I was not that close to her) this weekend wearing a bikini. She was wrinkly, fat, chubby, with rolls... she was in a bikini... a high-waisted bikini,but still a bikini! No skirt, no ruffles, no nothing. Bikini!

I thought she was beautiful and amazing. Maybe if we were all exposed to more different body types we could be more accepting of each other, instead of being so freaked out by a fat belly or a thin belly or a whatever belly or a whatever body part. I felt like cheering this lady on! :) The attitude of "I don't need to see a fat butt/belly/arm/whatever" absolutely drives me crazy... the same people who say things like that usually see no problem whatsoever with things I find much more offensive... I'd prefer us all (including myself) to be a little more tolerant of each others differences instead of holding each person up to some bizarre standard of beauty.

:applause

I tend to be more sympathetic toward the majority here, being on the largr size, but I think you're all being a bit hard on Frenchie.

Her dh couldn't help how he felt about the nursing mom in the booth. He didn't say or do anything to offend her. He had a negative gut reaction and had the decency to control that because it would be unfair to offend this lovely nursing mother.

I believe larger women with larger breasts do tend to get a more negative reaction because they may be more conspicious.

I can also see how a culturally attractive woman may be giving people dual social messages by nursing a baby that some people are not comfey with.

I don't sense that anyone here is treating anyone else unfairly, I think people are being sensitive (and I understand because I, myself, am sensitive.)

I forgot who said this but, "It seems to me that women-of-size nursing in public are striking two blows against the patriarchy!" was brilliant!!!

:applause

Oh, now I get it. You believe in the advice if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. :wink

Controversial or difficult reactions should just be swept under the rug. Then we can all live happily ever after in utopia.

I think choosing to alter your "looks" in a manner you LIKE, ie; tattoos and piercings if very differant from being overweight. Having to work to alter your body shape into one that means you will not be discriminated against or insulted isn't the same as conciously choosing a body you enjoy.

If someone is overweight because they choose to be and had to actually strive to be overweight, than maybe i would find tattoos comparable.

I could work harder to excersize off the calories i take in but right now i have NO choice.. the only time i can sit here is when i am nursing- it would mean dramatically altering my life just to appease some stereotypes of what i should look like.

If you have a genetic predispostion to be heavy than you have to work *against* nature just to be treated half decent in this culture. Just because someone has the capablilities to do something does not mean that *not* doing it was a choice.

obviously "no choice" is not universal.. but it certainly applies and aside from eating disorders, thyroid, genetics, medications, certain diseases, hormone imbalaces.. sometimes life it's self means you have no choice in the moment. I even consider a concious refusal to loose weight just to be *accepted* no choice. I could easily say that my body is my body, I have NO choice but to accept it..

All I am saying is that comparing being discriminated against for having tattoos and comparing being treated poorly for being overweight makes little sense to me.

that is because you don't feel the need to be tattooed. i have to have tattoos, others who are tattooed understand that.

that is because you don't feel the need to be tattooed. i have to have tattoos, others who are tattooed understand that.

are you being sarcastic? i am tattood and overweight. this reasoning makes no sense to me. :dizzy: i don't even know what to say.

that is because you don't feel the need to be tattooed. i have to have tattoos, others who are tattooed understand that.

what?!?

when did i say that..my point would be that people CHOOSE to get tattoos.. so comparing it is irrelevant.

i just saw the next post maybe you are being sarcastic?

i have no idea where to even begin there.
how about with the tattoo across my face?

I think you all should lay off FRENCHIE. She clearly did not intend to offend anyone or hurt their feelings. No one seemed to care that her husband is supportive of nursing, just that he was grossed out at the woman's rolls....Who cares? A man is a man no matter how supportive he is of NIP or BF in general. His reaction was normal in my opinion, as a matter of fact most of your husbands, partners or boyfriends would probably have felt the same way, they just may not have voiced it to you. She even stated in her post that he didn't look away because he didn't want her to feel uncomfortable... good for him.
:thumb
Why is everyone so uptight about everything these days. You have to censor everything you say and know everything you think.
I'm guessing I am about 40lbs or so overwieght I'm sure there are people grossed out by my rolls. Tough crap for them. I honestly can't believe there are 4 pages arguing about this.

Frenchie - My husband would have reacted the same exact way. (hopefully he doesn't when I left my shirt to nurse;) ) I think what he did by not looking away far outweighs the fact that he was grossed out for a second. Good for him. :)

:gloomy: This thread should be locked. It's poisonous. :gloomy:

All I am saying is that comparing being discriminated against for having tattoos and comparing being treated poorly for being overweight makes little sense to me.

I guess I don't understand how Frenchie's dhs' reaction to some rolls was treating her poorly or discriminating against her. And I know many women who are large and choose to stay that way. Many of them whine about being overweight all the time but yet they do nothing to resolve it.

@}-`-}-,-'- )O(

You may be new here. This is a support forum. We discuss things to learn. We try not to censor other people's feelings.

Frenchie

thank you for sharing a difficult story, and taking the flack. His response was entirely appropriate, not mentioning it until later. Very civilized.

Tattoos and weight, interesting.

SO...my point is (yes I have a point) is that maybe a woman who is self-conscious about her size or breast size, whether large or small, would be more likely to bring attention to herself because people can sense her discomfort.

ITA. I know I draw attention to myself by my behavior.

Personally, I am still too self-conscious about NIP. When my son was first born, I was so self-conscious that I would have to run out to the car to nurse if we were in the car. I have grown up in a culture and family where breasts are sexual objects to be covered, no matter the circumstance. Lewdness is a sin! Slowly I have been able to try and overcome mental and emotional barriers. Now, however, I have the added "discomfort" of extended nursing. I feel that the looks I receive now are more because I have a 15 month old toddler.

I don't think my looks have anything to do with how people perceive me, but who knows.:shrug

:heartbeat Hawkfeather, I am really loving your posts about weight and body image on this thread. Thank you.

I guess I don't understand how Frenchie's dhs' reaction to some rolls was treating her poorly or discriminating against her. And I know many women who are large and choose to stay that way. Many of them whine about being overweight all the time but yet they do nothing to resolve it.

-i might be wrong but i do not recall saying anyone's dh was being discriminatory.. i said i don't think you can compare being discriminated against for wieght or tattoos..

-& thanx this mama.

-and while i agre that there has been some negative energy in this thread.. saying it is poisonous simply adds to the negativity.

i think everyone's feelings here are valid.

-i might be wrong but i do not recall saying anyone's dh was being discriminatory..

I just can't see these two quotes as anything other than "having a negative reaction to someone's body is the same as being racist, etc."

1) "Although is may seem reasonable to you to be 'grossed out' by the form of another person's body... but it's no more reasonable than being 'grossed out' by the color of someone's skin."

2) "Misogyny, homophobia, and racism all have strong elements of disgust to them. You know, 'women are dirty,' 'gays are diseased,' that kind of thing."

Do you read them differently, Hawkfeather?

And I know many women who are large and choose to stay that way. Many of them whine about being overweight all the time but yet they do nothing to resolve it.

I find this attitude more annoying than a man's simple honest gut reaction of 'ack!', & yet making the kind & moral decision not to make her feel uncomfortable.

I had a friend at playgroup nurse pretty 'indiscreetly' once, & the sight of loose boob hitting air made me initially go 'ack!' myself- me; nudist, lifelong lactivist, ebf'r- 'ack'. You can't blame someone for 'ack'. 'Ack' is involuntary. I repressed my 'ack', knowing that it was my problem, not hers, as did Frenchie's dh.

Now, making the judgment that someone is 'choosing' to be overweight... (especially without intimate knowledge- if you heard me mildly bitch in the dressing room about not fitting into a size 12 at bcbg max azaria, does that mean that I am 'doing nothing to resolve it', or that I am not doing my best to be healthy and have a healthy body image? How do you know? I dare say that if you are making this kind of judgement you are not that close to them, not enough to judge their motivation or lifestyle.)

As one of those lifelong ectomorphs constantly told that they needed to eat or they were going to 'blow away', all I can say is wait. Metabolisms can be so changeable.

PS Another tatted pierced person here not getting the 'have to' be tatooed thing. It was a choice in the way my fat abdomen is most certainly not. Feeling like it is an integral choice that helps me be me, is not at all comparable to having a body type that tends to keep fat around my belly (were it a choice, I would definitely take a fat arse :lol Seriously, pear-shaped over apple is much healthier for women).

I find this attitude more annoying than a man's simple honest gut reaction of 'ack!', & yet making the kind & moral decision not to make her feel uncomfortable.

I had a friend at playgroup nurse pretty 'indiscreetly' once, & the sight of loose boob hitting air made me initially go 'ack!' myself- me; nudist, lifelong lactivist, ebf'r- 'ack'. You can't blame someone for 'ack'. 'Ack' is involuntary. I repressed my 'ack', knowing that it was my problem, not hers, as did Frenchie's dh.

Now, making the judgment that someone is 'choosing' to be overweight... (especially without intimate knowledge- if you heard me mildly bitch in the dressing room about not fitting into a size 12 at bcbg max azaria, does that mean that I am 'doing nothing to resolve it', or that I am not doing my best to be healthy and have a healthy body image? How do you know? I dare say that if you are making this kind of judgement you are not that close to them, not enough to judge their motivation or lifestyle.)

As one of those lifelong ectomorphs constantly told that they needed to eat or they were going to 'blow away', all I can say is wait. Metabolisms can be so changeable.

The comment I made is not and "attitude" toward anything, it's fact. My sister for instance...complains about being overweight all the time, however it's nothing for her to eat chips, drink soda and eat sweets all the time. So...yes I do know them well enough to be able to say that or I never would have said it. I do know there are women who have thyroid problems and do try and try to lose the weight. I am not that cold hearted to say " you are fat and won't do anything about it so that's your fault". So maybe you should get all the facts before you "dare say" or assume anything.

:eyesroll Yes, all overweight people without easily diagnosable glandular conditions are just choosing a life of fatitude. The soda & chips I see skinny people eating- must be a miracle, not different metabolisms or anything.

(And the morbidly obese people working their arses off at the gym- they are just pigs who won't stop eating, compared to say, my 110 lb dd who eats anything and everything but doesn't exercise.)

I do think that this is a good thread that exhibits the prejudices fat people must face every day. Not poisonous- useful.

I just can't see these two quotes as anything other than "having a negative reaction to someone's body is the same as being racist, etc."

1) "Although is may seem reasonable to you to be 'grossed out' by the form of another person's body... but it's no more reasonable than being 'grossed out' by the color of someone's skin."

2) "Misogyny, homophobia, and racism all have strong elements of disgust to them. You know, 'women are dirty,' 'gays are diseased,' that kind of thing."

Do you read them differently, Hawkfeather?

I am sorry momma- I honeslty read your post a fair few times and I am not sure what you are asking.

I only said that *I* did not say anyone's husband was being discrimnatory..not that it had not been said. Because it obviously has been. There was a post and a quote of mine used in one of the lay off frencie posts.

But really my quote only said i do not think you can compare being discrimnated againt for having tattoos with being discriminated against for being overweight.

And even that was not a comment about anyone's dh but rather about sentiment's expressed in this thread.

The comment I made is not and "attitude" toward anything, it's fact. My sister for instance...complains about being overweight all the time, however it's nothing for her to eat chips, drink soda and eat sweets all the time. So...yes I do know them well enough to be able to say that or I never would have said it. I do know there are women who have thyroid problems and do try and try to lose the weight. I am not that cold hearted to say " you are fat and won't do anything about it so that's your fault". So maybe you should get all the facts before you "dare say" or assume anything.


People tend to associate *problem* eating with being very thin. While studies show must disordered eating manifests as comfort eating and over eating.

I am not saying your sister has an eating disorder, but no matter how well you know someone you never know, and the exact scenerio you described could easily fit to any mother reading this, or mothers anywhere who have a serious disease that affects the way the perceive nourishing themselves.

i do think it would be cold hearted to say words like this to your sister, and i wasn't clear weather that is your actual opinion or not. But while you say it is not an *attitude* it is still a public opinion expressed that will impact those who read it.

If you know "many" women who are overweight, who complain about it, but do "nothing" to resolve it.. and none of them have a pre existing medical issue, including an eating disorder you are lucky. really.

And while i have faith that you are loving and supportive when comunicating with the "many" you know...even words like this here add to a very common and very negative sentiment about weight and women.

First off, I have nothing against women who are overweight and I would never say anything to hurt someone's feelings. My sister is a whole different story, but no she doesn't have an eating disorder. She and I are made a lot alike and we both have always been able to eat whatever we wanted when we were active, but since she had her daughter 5 years ago, she has done nothing but complain about her weight, yet she will go to a Japanese rest. and eat their shrimp sauce full of calories...2 or 3 times a week. I am not trying to offend anyone at all. I was simply stating that...If you are overweight and you have a problem with it AND you are able to do something about it, meaning you have the time to exercise...blah blah blah Then do it, otherwise don't complain and I think it is great that there are overweight women that are comfortable with it, minus they may have health problems, but hey that's their life and health. I worked with a woman once that weighed about 300 lbs and she would straight up tell you that she was beautiful...and she was, her attitude made it even better. So, please..no one be offended, because that is not what I was trying to do, besides, I think this Thread went a little off topic and I apoligize if it was my fault.

First off, I have nothing against women who are overweight and I would never say anything to hurt someone's feelings. My sister is a whole different story, but no she doesn't have an eating disorder. She and I are made a lot alike and we both have always been able to eat whatever we wanted when we were active, but since she had her daughter 5 years ago, she has done nothing but complain about her weight, yet she will go to a Japanese rest. and eat their shrimp sauce full of calories...2 or 3 times a week. I am not trying to offend anyone at all. I was simply stating that...If you are overweight and you have a problem with it AND you are able to do something about it, meaning you have the time to exercise...blah blah blah Then do it, otherwise don't complain and I think it is great that there are overweight women that are comfortable with it, minus they may have health problems, but hey that's their life and health. I worked with a woman once that weighed about 300 lbs and she would straight up tell you that she was beautiful...and she was, her attitude made it even better. So, please..no one be offended, because that is not what I was trying to do, besides, I think this Thread went a little off topic and I apoligize if it was my fault.

it is not your fault it went off topic what so ever.. it has a lot already..

Please do not think I am implying you are mean or offensive. Because I don't, but i do think a lot of people are misinformed about what an eating disroder looks like. And while I do nto know your sister at all, disordered eating for many really just looks like eating more than they should and than feeling awful about it. and most peopel have no idea it is an illness or that the themselves even have it. So while you know your sister, you still could be describing a hurtful situation to any reader or woman.

My point was really that saying *if you don't have an issue*.. don't complain and do it could be in-sensative because you have no idea who has disordered eating issues and who does not. It is a tone that is beyond common that perpetuates the idea that people are lazy. When really a lot of people suffer in silence.

I only said that *I* did not say anyone's husband was being discrimnatory..not that it had not been said. Because it obviously has been.

OOOh, thanks for clearing that up. I read the word "saying" as "seeing". :blush Thanks for taking the time to answer, in spite of the fact that I misread your post.

I know I said I would stay out of this thread, but I really wanted to clarify a statement I made in a previous post.

The question that was posed to me was quite simple..."How would you feel knowing that people were "skeeved" at the sight of you minding your own business, going about your daily tasks?"

In my response, I never compared discrimination against being overweight, to discrimination of being tattooed. However, IMO discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you slice it and dice it. It shouldn't matter if I made a choice to be covered in tattoos, that does NOT give a person license to discriminate against me. I knew when I got my first tattoo, that I was identifying myself with a sub-culture that is not necessarily looked upon with grace. I don't care about the looks I get, the clutching of purses, the following me around the store because I look like a person who might shoplift, the bringing your child close...as if I'm going to...what? what am I going to do? It's the backhanded comments and the outright insults.
The fact is, it hurts all the same. Here I am minding my own business, and I have some stranger barking at me that I have ruined my body, that I look hideous, and that I must be an attention starved young lady to do something so ridiculous.

Perhaps a more credible example for y'all would be this. I worked with a lady at my old salon who was pushing 375lbs. when she decided to get gastric bypass surgery. At that time, I weighed 115lbs, had a 24" waist and I'm 5'5". For 3 years, until I finally decided to move my business elsewhere, I was harassed by her almost daily. Her favorite "compliment" (as she called it) was to call me anorexic. Knowing I was vegan, she'd tell me I needed to eat a steak, or she'd offer to buy me a Big Mac and supersize fries...then laugh as she walked away. In her opinion, I could "afford" to eat junk. She called me gaunt, said I looked tired, asked me constantly if I was getting enough sleep. She was "afraid" to touch me, as she said she might break me. The list is endless. The turth is, I danced (lindy hop) 5 days a week, I ate like a horse and I had more energy than I could handle. Dancing was my release.
I would sit in the bathroom at work and bawl. It was tiring, hurtful and depressing (I'm manic). I never once said anything about her weight to her face, or behind her back. I pitied her. As much as I disliked her, I made sure to be supportive of her decision to get surgery. I always told her how great she looked as she was losing weight...but she continued with her nasty comments to me, even after I told her how hurtful they were.
I also had to endure backhanded comments from other co-workers, family and strangers, about my weight.

So in closing, my answer is yes...yes I know exactly how it feels to have people skeeved by my appearance while minding my own business and going about my daily tasks. Again...I am who I am, and I'm not changing for anybody.

i do not think it was saith that you didn't know what is is like to be discriminated against, and no one at all said that people with tattoos are NOT discriminated against.
And yes discrimination is discrimination, it all hurts.

In the same manner that i would differentiate discrimination against a person of colour from discrimination because you have blue hair. Certainly both are widely judged, but i would still not say one can relate to the other.

It is a shame that anyone would act so cruel about your body shape- but to be frank i think some might have read your original comments relating being judged by your tattoos- as some how saying it is okay to make comments that may hurt the overweight because you can relate.

knowing that you know what it feels like to disgust another wont make it any easier to hear by those who take offence.

i do not think it was saith that you didn't know what is is like to be discriminated against, and no one at all said that people with tattoos are NOT discriminated against.
And yes discrimination is discrimination, it all hurts.
Well, I didn't take it that way...I was just answering the question as it was posed to me....and then somehow my post was turned into a comparison of discriminations. I simply answered, a simply asked question.

In the same manner that i would differentiate discrimination against a person of colour from discrimination because you have blue hair. Certainly both are widely judged, but i would still not say one can relate to the other.
I understand, and I agree with the underlying point you are making. However, the sentiment behind discrimination is the same. The effect is the same. That's what I'm trying to point out.

It is a shame that anyone would act so cruel about your body shape- but to be frank i think some might have read your original comments relating being judged by your tattoos- as some how saying it is okay to make comments that may hurt the overweight because you can relate.
Going back and reading my posts, I really think that's a stretch, but I HOPE nobody took my post that way. If anybody took it that way PLEASE, let me make this clear right now....I do not believe discrimination against anybody, for any reason is OK, no matter how much one can relate to the other.

I guess I don't understand how Frenchie's dhs' reaction to some rolls was treating her poorly or discriminating against her.
ITA

And I know many women who are large and choose to stay that way.
This made me think of the time my son was evaluated for Prader-Willi syndrome. Fortunately for us, he does not have it. But I view obesity differently now.

“Why do people who have PWS eat so much?

People with PWS have a flaw in the part of their brain (the hypothalamus) that determines hunger and satiety (fullness). These people never feel full enough, so they have a continuous urge to eat. To compound this problem, people with PWS need considerably fewer calories than normal to maintain an appropriate weight. The obesity that results is the major cause of illness and death in this disorder. As in the general population, obesity in PWS can cause high blood pressure, respiratory difficulties, diabetes and other problems.

Can anything be done to control the eating?

Unfortunately, no appetite suppressant has worked consistently for people with PWS. Most must be on an extremely low-calorie diet all their lives and must have their environment designed so that they have very limited access to food.”
http://www.thearc.org/faqs/pwsynd.html

Many of them whine about being overweight all the time but yet they do nothing to resolve it.
This made me think of a long lost friend. She was overweight and I have a cluttered house. She joined Weight Watchers and when she worked at it, could lose the weight. I never do seem to get the clutter under control. I whine about it all the time. I always think of the two issues (weight and clutter) as related, for me and my friend our chosen vise is how we deal with difficult emotions. She cleans and eats. I escape. But she never bought into the fact that de-cluttering is emotionally hard for me just as not eating was hard for her. She judged me for complaining all the time without doing anything.

Well, I didn't take it that way...I was just answering the question as it was posed to me....and then somehow my post was turned into a comparison of discriminations. I simply answered, a simply asked question.

i thought it was you that made the initial comparison, saying you could relate to being discriminated against because you have tattoos?.. I know you are not the only one who made the comparison.

It might be a small point but i also do not think the affects of all discrimination are the same, sometimes being able to discriminate keeps us safe..i think there must be a wide range of affects.

If you are gay, or of colour or overweight etc... and are suffering at the hand of discrimination you are generally being oppressed and can eventually allow those prejudices to penetrate affecting your sense of self worth, or how you feel about being any one of those things. I am sad to say it by i do not know many who *like* being big, every gay person i know has gone thru periods of intense alienation and self doubt..
And even though being tattoo'd often welcomes vast judgments, i do not know many people who doubt, hate, dislike or even regret their tattoos.. in fact most go on to get more..most -I know- celebrate the difference.

that is all i am trying to say really. it is pretty far off from the op but oh well.

i thought it was you that made the initial comparison, saying you could relate to being discriminated against because you have tattoos?.. I know you are not the only one who made the comparison.


that is all i am trying to say really. it is pretty far off from the op but oh well.

well i originally made the statement. the topic was how our looks effect us when NIP and i stated just that. i felt like i had to respond again when there was a post basically invalidating my feelings. i think it is silly to say that some discrimination is worse than others, it's all bad.

i thought it was you that made the initial comparison, saying you could relate to being discriminated against because you have tattoos?.. I know you are not the only one who made the comparison.

It might be a small point but i also do not think the affects of all discrimination are the same, sometimes being able to discriminate keeps us safe..i think there must be a wide range of affects.

If you are gay, or of colour or overweight etc... and are suffering at the hand of discrimination you are generally being oppressed and can eventually allow those prejudices to penetrate affecting your sense of self worth, or how you feel about being any one of those things. I am sad to say it by i do not know many who *like* being big, every gay person i know has gone thru periods of intense alienation and self doubt..
And even though being tattoo'd often welcomes vast judgments, i do not know many people who doubt, hate, dislike or even regret their tattoos.. in fact most go on to get more..most -I know- celebrate the difference.

that is all i am trying to say really. it is pretty far off from the op but oh well.

I wasn't making a comparison by making that statement, I was stating that I have, in fact, experienced discrimination. I think our differing opinions on discrimination is the reason we aren't able to meet in the middle in this discussion.
At dinner this evening, I was thinking about this thread, and realized that I can't hold absolutely true to my pp...I most definately have a discriminating attitude toward pedophiles and rapists. With the safety issue, I prefer to use the word discernment...but either way, I totally agree with you on your point.
As for tattoos....I have to say that I have known and met many people who are very regretful of their tattoos. In fact, I work with a guy who hates his tattoos. I went to cosmotology school with a girl who had 9 tattoos removed at once. Also, contrary to your statement about gay people...I can't say I've ever met a gay person who didn't like being gay. Being in the industry I am in, I'm around homosexuals a lot...also because I have family members who are gay. I won't argue about the self doubt and alienation...but those periods in life are not exclusive to homosexuals.
Though this thread has totally gone off of the original subject, and I sort of took a little beating, I think it's been very thought provoking...at least it has been for me, because I find myself thinking about it a lot:lol

well i originally made the statement. the topic was how our looks effect us when NIP and i stated just that. i felt like i had to respond again when there was a post basically invalidating my feelings. i think it is silly to say that some discrimination is worse than others, it's all bad.

I did not say it was worse..i said it is differant. And like most differant things, hard it not impossible to compare.

It is fine you think it is silly, but please don't say it right after you say your feelings were invalidated.

I am not sure if you felt my post -saying i did not think one could compare being discriminated aganist for being tattoo'd with being overweight- was in response to your post...but it was not.
Stating that your tattoo's affect the public response and reaction to BFing, which was the OP is not the same as saying.. yes I hurt some people by saying my dh was disgusted by a big woman, but i can relate because i have tattoo's...which is what i responded too. (that was in no way a quote..) That is just the sentiment i percieved. My apoligeze if i am wrong about the expressed sentiment. I am generalizing..

I would never argue that Tattoo's do not affect the population's reaction to a BFing mother, but i still do not think all forms of discrimination are comparable.

I stand by my opinion...while i am sure everyone can relate to being discriminated against at some pont in life. I do not think it is all comparable.

Tattoos are a choice, even if it is a need, you choose the design you choose the placement, you choose to get more. Even if one day you grow tired of them- And unless someone was tattoo'd without consent and regrets it and wishes they could change, as some who are overwieght feel -I think it is differant. I would love to discuss embracing a lifestyle that is not accepted by our mass culture.. but the topic has strayed pretty far already.

I am sorry you feel your feelings were invalidated, I think it is valid that someone would think all forms of discrimination are equally bad- I simply do not agree.

Being told that someone can not understand your point unless they have tattoo's doesn't go very far to saying there is some ability to *relate* here.

I wasn't making a comparison by making that statement, I was stating that I have, in fact, experienced discrimination. I think our differing opinions on discrimination is the reason we aren't able to meet in the middle in this discussion.
At dinner this evening, I was thinking about this thread, and realized that I can't hold absolutely true to my pp...I most definately have a discriminating attitude toward pedophiles and rapists. With the safety issue, I prefer to use the word discernment...but either way, I totally agree with you on your point.
As for tattoos....I have to say that I have known and met many people who are very regretful of their tattoos. In fact, I work with a guy who hates his tattoos. I went to cosmotology school with a girl who had 9 tattoos removed at once. Also, contrary to your statement about gay people...I can't say I've ever met a gay person who didn't like being gay. Being in the industry I am in, I'm around homosexuals a lot...also because I have family members who are gay. I won't argue about the self doubt and alienation...but those periods in life are not exclusive to homosexuals.
Though this thread has totally gone off of the original subject, and I sort of took a little beating, I think it's been very thought provoking...at least it has been for me, because I find myself thinking about it a lot:lol

I agree every post i think *wow this is far off.*. but i am enjoying reading the differant attitudes and opinions.. so as far as meeting me in the middle.. no worries.. I never had any epxectation that anyone should or would agree anywhere in the spectrum with me- i just want to share my feelings.


I fully agree there are many groups of our society i discriminate against- happily in fact. Pedophiles and rapists being some!

I know there are many people who dislike thier tattoos, that wasn't really my point.
*I* do not know many (if any) people that dislike their's..

And about being gay-
I do not know a SINGLE gay person who dislikes being gay- that is not what i said- every gay or lesbian person i know also went thru intense periods of confusion, self doubt even self hatred. The stats put out by pflag concerning suicide rates, high school drop outs due to alienation and prejudices- family black listing.. is crushing. I know we all have periods of self doubt, but still the sucide rates for gay youth are leaps and bounds higher than others. Working with gay adults who are out and happy with thier lives doesn't paint the same picture as volunteering with advocacy groups for dispondent gay youths..
periods of exclusion are not exclusive to gays at all.

i am enjoying reading the differant attitudes and opinions..

Me too. Several posters here have taken a beating and still came back with thoughtful posts.:thumb

Me too. Several posters here have taken a beating and still came back with thoughtful posts.:thumb

yeah!!!!!!!

And about being gay-
I do not know a SINGLE gay person who dislikes being gay- that is not what i said- every gay or lesbian person i know also went thru intense periods of confusion, self doubt even self hatred. The stats put out by pflag concerning suicide rates, high school drop outs due to alienation and prejudices- family black listing.. is crushing. I know we all have periods of self doubt, but still the sucide rates for gay youth are leaps and bounds higher than others. Working with gay adults who are out and happy with thier lives doesn't paint the same picture as volunteering with advocacy groups for dispondent gay youths..
periods of exclusion are not exclusive to gays at all.

I misunderstood you. I'm definately aware of the stats with youth, and it's very sad. I have quite a few friends that came out after high school, and a couple that came out in their late teens. I know a few of them had a real hard time...as one of them attempted suicide on several occasions...the last attempt, his sister came home unexpectedly and found him on the verge of death. He came out about a year later, and was the happiest and most content I had ever seen him.
At any rate, how does one get involved in a volunteer program like the one you mentioned? You can PM me the answer if you prefer.

I got invloved when i was younger.. there is not a program like that where i live now asdly.

BUt i rememebr hookign up thru a support network for victims of AIDS. BUt iknow you cuold contact a local PFLAG group as well.. or local high schools.

I am sorry to hear abtou yout freind...hopefully they are healthy and happy now!

pardon my NAK typing.

:dizzy: This was just a thought- after reading a therad that included comments about large breasted women.

How much do you think a mother's "looks" affects people's public attitudes with breastfeeding?

I can say my weigth have been all over the map, and just now i sat and thought about it a bit. I would think like most things when i was overweight i would catch more flack but when i think about my *own* situation it was the opposite, when i was thin people gave me a hard time about nursing. When i had smaller breasts people complained more.

Now i haev no idea if this amounts to anything.. but i have five kids and in my own experince it has been true.

I am just curious to se what others think about this?

I think it speaks a lot to how ridiculous it is when people find fault with public nursing.

I got invloved when i was younger.. there is not a program like that where i live now asdly.

BUt i rememebr hookign up thru a support network for victims of AIDS. BUt iknow you cuold contact a local PFLAG group as well.. or local high schools.

I am sorry to hear abtou yout freind...hopefully they are healthy and happy now!

pardon my NAK typing.

He's happy as a clam living in Alabama with his partner. TOTALLY OT, but he dated a friend of ours for about a year. The whole time they were together, we'd ask him why he was with her, and not out. He'd get so frustrated with us, and swear to us he wasn't gay. We knew he was...and she was in denial. We talked to her about it all the time too. He finally broke up with her, and he came out...at the same time. She was the first person he told. We were all happy for him, and he was relieved. I think he was always more afraid of what his friends would think. I like to think that we encouraged him to come out, by being so supportive before the fact.
I'll look into PFLAG....I think my dh's Aunt might know something about it. I've been wanting to volunteer within the community. Either through Aunt Gail's food bank for AIDS victims, or with youth. I prefer adolescent youth, because they are so impressionable, and in need of support. Thank you for mentioning it, now I have it in my head.

ummm sorry about my funny quoate :dizzy: and dizzy post! my daughter got on after me (4 years old) and was typing!

:eyesroll Yes, all overweight people without easily diagnosable glandular conditions are just choosing a life of fatitude. The soda & chips I see skinny people eating- must be a miracle, not different metabolisms or anything.

(And the morbidly obese people working their arses off at the gym- they are just pigs who won't stop eating, compared to say, my 110 lb dd who eats anything and everything but doesn't exercise.)

I do think that this is a good thread that exhibits the prejudices fat people must face every day. Not poisonous- useful.


I never said that all overweight people chose to be that way nor that the overweight people at the gym were pigs that would not stop eating....sounds like someone is a little bitter....Please don't put words into my mouth..err on my post I guess I should say. I am not predjudice towards fat people, I am not predjudice toward any walk of life....black or white fat or skinny. I was simply stating that those that I know personally and know VERY well that are overweight and complain about it, but don't do anything about it annoy me.Maybe I shouldn't post here anymore because everytime I do, people twist things around and get their panties in a wad over nothing.:irked:

....sounds like someone is a little bitter....

Maybe I shouldn't post here anymore because everytime I do, people twist things around and get their panties in a wad over nothing.:irked:

I don't think you should take things in such a negative light..you are bothered someone twisted your words.. but it will likely always happen where ever you go online.. it is just part of communicating thru typing.

I complain about being overweight. and to some it probably looks like i am doing nothing to remedy the situation. Your comments are a trigger for people because (at least in my perspective) it scares us to think people we might be "VERY close with" would hear our complaints-pain-frustrations and react the same way. Speaking ill of something that is often very painful.

And still no matter how well you know someone, no one knows what is happening in their lives, heads or hearts.

people twist things around and get their panties in a wad over nothing.

"If you are a bf mama you are beautiful whether you weigh 450 lbs or 100 lbs. Be proud of yourself...you made a person and you are nurturing that person...

And I know many women who are large and choose to stay that way. Many of them whine about being overweight all the time but yet they do nothing to resolve it...

My sister for instance...complains about being overweight all the time, however it's nothing for her to eat chips, drink soda and eat sweets all the time. So...yes I do know them well enough to be able to say that or I never would have said it."

I think that anyone who reads the middle paragraph is going to have a strong reaction. Unfortunately for you, the other two paragraphs are in different posts. Generally people don't read carefully (even me, right Hawkfeather?), and can't remember who said what in a PP.

You've added a lot of positive to this thread and a little controversy too.:thumb

I'm pretty sure I'm the type that has a layer to protect herself because of some past experiences.

protective layer.. on some level (depsite beign sad you need extra protection) i kind of like the way that sounds..it is pro-active!

I know I have extra weigth rigth now because I am anorexic. And being pregnant with my last child was a struggle for me.. I conciously tacked on *extra* weight so that I could nurse in a healthy manner.
so it is probbly a few extra layers.. to [protect me and my baby..


And Nisupulla I do agree we do not all read carefully or keep tabs of every opinion in lengthy threads..
It always makes me a little sad when someoen says something that may be hurtful to another but rather than just hear those who are hurt and be accountable just get angry. But i also agree that pretty much every mother here has added positivity to this thread!!!!!!!!!!..