Anyone else out there have a musically gifted child?

[Profmom]

My DS (13) is musically talented. He plays the violin and is working toward a career as a violinist. We are in Germany now in large part to enable him to work with a really excellent teacher here for at least a year.

Anyone else out there want to chat about the joys and challenges of raising a precocious musician?

[catgirl]

In a hurry, but I do. My 7yo is very serious about the piano - practices about an hour a day, recently played a (very, very) easy concerto movement with orchestra, and so on. He has always seen himself as a musician - says he's going to be a conductor, and seems like he will get into composing too - improvises a lot.

This is a busy period for me, but I'll catch you later! BTW, I'm a professional violinist. Who's your ds studying with?

[Profmom]

Oh, yay! I'd love to hear more about your son! What did he play with the orchestra? My son studies with a teacher in the Bonn/Köln area. We lived here for the year in 2002-2003 and this teacher was asked by our old teacher here to come and see him play - after that he was invited to study with this new teacher. He is also playing in two orchestras here, so he is able to get much better orchestral experience than where we live in the US. DS's plan is to audition for pre-conservatory programs when we return to VA, but we are trying to find a way to stay here a second year (dh and I are both university professors, so it may be possible) to keep him with this teacher another year. They are a perfect match, and ds is learning so fast with him.

The biggest problem we have is with explosive frustration. DS used to throw his Mendelssohn at the wall on occasion. It is usually for the first week or two of a new piece that the frustration is (um) excessive, and then he settles in. I think he gets mad when he can't make it sound the way it sounds in his head.

I look forward to hearing more when you have time! Thanks for replying.

[Fiestabeth]

Question - Did you see signs that your dc were musically gifted when they were younger? My younger dd LOVES music. She knows the tunes to at least two dozen songs, and is working on all of the words. She seems to have near perfect pitch, and the child dances practically all day long. She also loves to play the piano. It's really cute - some days she will pound on the low notes, and some days she will play soft, slow songs on the higher end.

[Profmom]

Fiestabeth - with ds, it was clear pretty much from birth (no kidding) that music 'spoke' to him/for him. I had to be rushed to the hospital when ds was just three or four days old WITHOUT ds, and my mom stayed with him for a few hours. From what my mom says, he lay absolutely calmly listening to Chopin Nocturnes - just sat and listened. He didn't fuss or cry for three hours of this. I came home frantic and worried, and there he was, listening. It was pretty amazing. He started asking (demanding?) to play the violin at three so he could 'play sad music'. He started taking piano at 4 (dh thought that would be better than violin) but ds would have none of that and I rented him a little tiny violin when he was 6 and found him a violin teacher.

How old is your dd? She sounds similarly interested - is she old enough to start Suzuki piano? We had good luck with Suzuki in the beginning (the first 3 years, so ages 6-8). Now he studies with a (very) traditional teacher.

I think for some children are born with an innate musicality that goes beyond the norm. Sort of the way some children seem 'wired' to excel at math or chess. It sounds like your daughter has this musicality! It's a great ride - we have really enjoyed it!

[eilonwy]

I wonder about this, too. My 2 year old started accurately tapping rythms back at 4 months. Both of my older children as well as my nieces can sing in tune-- but can't any child repeat in tune if that's what they hear? All four of these children have expressed interest in musical intstruments, though only one (ChibiChibi) has shown a preference (piano).

I'm looking into getting BeanBean enrolled in lessons this year, if it's at all possible (meaning, if someone is willing to trade work with me or something :innocent). I'm a self-taught musician; Violin, piano, and cello in that order. :thumb I figure, it will be a heck of a lot easier for the kids to do the work when they're younger than it was for me, trying to teach myself violin at 12. I got pretty good, for a self-taught musician, but I really resent having never had lessons when I first expressed an interest (4.5).

[PGNPORTLAND]

My 7 month old dd likes to hit stainless steel bowls with a wooden spoon. She does it very well I think. :wink

[momtokay]

I think my first may be musically gifted. She has sung with what my FIL calls perfect pitch (he was a professional clarinet player so I guess he probably knows a bit about music ;)) since she was itty bitty. She makes up songs all the time with her own words and tunes. Many days she barely stops singing. She says she wants to be a singer who writes her own songs when she grows up. I'm considering starting her with some lessons either this year or next (she just turned six). She really wants to take voice lessons, but DH and I would like her to learn piano too. She has a definite passion for music, whether she's gifted in it or not.

[Profmom]

Pngportland: I'm not sure that your (seeminly sarcastic) comment was directed at me (or even if if was meant to BE sarcastic), but it sure left me feeling exposed for sharing a personal experience.

Actually, my son showed no early aptitude for pitch or rythym -- what he did show, and continues to show, is an emotional connection to the music. He 'feels' it. Certain music makes him cry. He is almost obsessively compelled to figure out how to play it. Sometimes he isn't so sure that this musicality is a gift, as it can prove frustrating and even painful.

His musicality and physical dexterity have made it possible for him to play very well, very young. The flip side of that, is that a lot of what he does is natural - not taught to him -- and he is getting a stage in his training in which he has to be more ingaged in the intellectual (rather than emotional) aspects of the pieces he is learning. His new teacher is trying to get him to THINK about every note, bowing, and rythmn - not just feel it.

The reason I was seeking support, esp. from a group of gentle moms, is that this fabulous new teacher (um) yells. Last Friday he even stamped is foot! My instinct is to fire his *%^, but ds would kill me (we discussed it). I was wondering if this is the norm among advanced teachers. We try not to yell around here (not always successfully...), so this really freaks me out. He is often very nice - and he is extremely positive about ds's potential - but his is not patient. At all.

I was hoping to find other moms with a similar issue. Maybe in another forum?

[Katana]

The reason I was seeking support, esp. from a group of gentle moms, is that this fabulous new teacher (um) yells. Last Friday he even stamped is foot! My instinct is to fire his *%^, but ds would kill me (we discussed it). I was wondering if this is the norm among advanced teachers. We try not to yell around here (not always successfully...), so this really freaks me out. He is often very nice - and he is extremely positive about ds's potential - but his is not patient. At all.

I was hoping to find other moms with a similar issue. Maybe in another forum?

I have never known a music teacher that wasn't a little bit...intense. I think, having sat under quite a few (3 piano teachers, one orchestra teacher, and various theory teachers) that yelling or temper is quite common.

Most of my music teachers were highly perfectionistic. I think when someone has a personality where there is little to no room for error, when someone doesn't perform the way you know they can or should, it drives them batty.

Also, most advanced teachers are quite gifted themselves, and any deviation from how they know it should sound is probably the equivalent to nails on a chalkboard.

Having said all that, I think that teachers like this can be very beneficial. My one orchestra teacher used to throw things at the wall when he was not pleased, and yelling was his 'normal' voice. Despite this, he cared about everyone he was teaching, very much and he certainly pulled amazing sounds out of all his students. If it doesn't bother your son, I would try to find some way to let it roll of you.

I know, that's much easier said then done. :hug

[Katana]

To answer the original question, I think dd1 is gifted musically.

She sang before she talked, and taught herself to play the guitar between 2-3 years of age. She has a keyboard in her bed, that she plays at night, to go to sleep.

She can hear any song, and sing it back, word for word, on tune, after one listen. She also plays by ear, and she and dh like to play the guitar with each other, at night.

I hesitate to do much with her, as far as lessons, because I was forced into piano lessons before I was ready, and I hated them, despite loving the music. Since she has done so well on her own, I'm waiting for her to let me know where she wants to go. (she's 5).

I know a Suzuki trained teacher, or someone like that is probably our best option, if she wants that.

[eilonwy]

If it doesn't bother your son, I would try to find some way to let it roll of you.

I know, that's much easier said then done. :hug

I agree with Katana. It sounds like your son is very happy with the level of expectation that this teacher has, and is doing well under his tutelage despite the yelling. He's learning a lot, and getting a great deal out of the experience, and would probably resent you for the rest of your life if you fired him.

All that you can do is continue to parent in the way that you think best. Your son still spends more time with you than he does with his violin teacher, your influence is still the stronger overall.

[Roar]

I think the most important thing is that you keep talking to your son about it. He needs to know where his limit is for putting up with his teacher's behavior and that he has options of finding another teacher if it bothers him.

I will say that I dealt with my share of these types in music as a kid and I didn't benefit from it. Instead it made me nervous and took joy away from the process. My son has a very gifted and very different kind of music teacher. She is kind, supportive and you know what...he works MUCH harder than I ever did as a student. He's not working out of fear but out of joy in the music and desire to please his teacher.

[Profmom]

Katany, eilonwy, and Roar: Thanks for sharing your perspectives. We will keep on with this teacher for now. We have our former teacher here to use as a resource for finding someone else if we need to make a change.

His Russian teacher in the US called us this afternoon to check in - when we told him about the yelling his response was: "Great, whatever it takes!" Good grief. But his overall opinion was like that of Katany and eilonwy - if A. is ok, and adjusting to this new (um) 'style' and level of attention to detain, then I should try not to let it get to ME. For now, I will try.

[wanderinggypsy]

On my oldest son's 3rd birthday, we went to my mom's place... there was an old piano there... it was only his 2nd or 3rd exposure to the instrument. he sat down at it and promptly figured out how to play a simple "twinkle twinkle little star". Since then he's continued to teach himself, now doing simple harmony as well as melody. I'm putting him in lessons this fall. I didn't want to do it too early and ruin his natural curiosity and exploration.

[Fiestabeth]

Fiestabeth - with ds, it was clear pretty much from birth (no kidding) that music 'spoke' to him/for him. I had to be rushed to the hospital when ds was just three or four days old WITHOUT ds, and my mom stayed with him for a few hours. From what my mom says, he lay absolutely calmly listening to Chopin Nocturnes - just sat and listened. He didn't fuss or cry for three hours of this. I came home frantic and worried, and there he was, listening. It was pretty amazing. He started asking (demanding?) to play the violin at three so he could 'play sad music'. He started taking piano at 4 (dh thought that would be better than violin) but ds would have none of that and I rented him a little tiny violin when he was 6 and found him a violin teacher.

How old is your dd? She sounds similarly interested - is she old enough to start Suzuki piano? We had good luck with Suzuki in the beginning (the first 3 years, so ages 6-8). Now he studies with a (very) traditional teacher.

I think for some children are born with an innate musicality that goes beyond the norm. Sort of the way some children seem 'wired' to excel at math or chess. It sounds like your daughter has this musicality! It's a great ride - we have really enjoyed it!

Profmom - what a beautiful story! Thanks for sharing! Both of my girls love music. When dd1 was just tiny, she also had such an intense reaction to music, whether it invoked wild dancing or calm, quiet listening. When she could sit almost on her own (about 5mos) we would prop her up with pillows all around, then turn on the music - she would sway forward and back, side to side, and shake her head! She is starting piano lessons in a couple of weeks. Dd2 is only 20mos, but shows even more of an aptitude towards music than her older sister. Both of my brothers are musicians, but I seem to have been passed up in that area!

[catgirl]

OK, after three days in bed (incidentally missing a rather well-paid concert :irked: ) I finally got back here.

Ds was very attuned to music from birth, too. On one of the rare occasions after he was first born that I was practicing, my Mom came walking down the corridor with him but then decided she'd better not disturb me. He burst into tears, so she brought him in and he watched me for about 10 minutes. I think he was about 3 weeks old at the time. She would sit with him in the back of the car and say, "You know, he's really listening to the radio." I remember him at about three months, too, being glued to an old black and white movie of a David Oistrakh recital. By 4 he was watching Beethoven 9 - on one occasion leaping out of bed and watching the whole thing before breakfast.

Right from the start his hands looked...capable. Seems like a strange thing to say about a tiny baby, but they looked like they were hotwired to his brain, somehow. At 9 months he was turning the dimmer switches on the lights, and I remember thinking, if he really does have musical feeling, this could be interesting. We did Music Together classes and he was much more into rhythm than pitch. He loved to dance and by the time he was two he was really responding in a lot of detail to the emotional content of the music - he would change his dancing very deliberately as the music changed, he would "get" the funny parts and so on.

When he was three I brought up the junky keyboard from my violin studio up to the living room for the summer. I realized that in his noodling he always came back to C, so I knew that he was getting the tonality of the instrument. I told him that was C, this was D and so on, and a few days later he started saying, "The fridge is playing E...the phone rings F" and I realized he had perfect pitch. Then I started singing the "resting tone" (as they called it in MT) while the radio was on, and pretty soon he was telling me the key of every piece on the radio. It turned out he also knew the keys of MT songs from two years ago - he had them all stored in there at pitch.

So he started piano just before he was four with a wonderful (Suzuki) teacher, and it was challenging, because he was (and still is) very, very wiggly and self-directed, but every time I backed off a bit he seemed to want more. The funny thing was, every time he sat down to perform, he looked like an adult - completely focused. Right from the start he was transposing his pieces into other keys for fun, and just playing in a completely different way from the other kids.

His teacher started giving him lots of performing opportunities, at nursing homes and so on, and he just loves to perform. Then this spring she had an older kid drop out of the concerto event and she put him in. The piece (Haydn concerto in C, first movement) was at least a year or two ahead of where he was technically, but he learnt in in five weeks straight and had the time of his life (although he was nervous the night before - the only time I've ever seen him nervous - as it turned out, he was afraid they would pick a faster tempo, so once I explained that HE would set the tempo he was OK).

I'm probably sounding braggy (but hey, you asked!), but he really does have that special "something" when he plays. He wants to play violin too and we rented one for a while but hardly touched it - it's hard to fit that in with everything else we do. I'm hoping once we get a bit more organized and he matures and settles down a bit (his energy is still a bit out of control) we'll be able to pick it up again. I think the piano is working great for him though - he loves to improvise, and he's learned a great deal about theory from his piano lessons. He seems to have all of musical theory built into his brain, and you just have to give him the labels - like with the perfect pitch, it was as if he'd known it all along but just didn't know the notes had names. I think music is really his first language, actually - he's not bad verbally but music is 100% natural for him. It's a real joy to work with him - although I'm musical, I didn't necessarily expect that he would be too, or have such a complete package. It's a great blessing!

[catgirl]

Oh, yay! I'd love to hear more about your son! What did he play with the orchestra? My son studies with a teacher in the Bonn/Köln area.

Is it Igor Ozim, by any chance?? Several people I knew back in the UK studied with him.

I got back late to this, but I think the others said it right. If your ds is happy, well, he's old enough to decide he can deal with it, probably.

[catgirl]

He started asking (demanding?) to play the violin at three so he could 'play sad music'.

I don't know if you're Jewish, but it sounds like he has that Jewish violin soul!

Now you're making me think I should get that violin back...my son's favorite key is d minor.

[eilonwy]

Now you're making me think I should get that violin back...my son's favorite key is d minor.

:lol Mine is a minor. :lol

[catgirl]

You know...there are so few people I know IRL who would have the first clue what I was talking about! Thank G-d for this board! :thumb

[Profmom]

Catgirl: no, we aren't quite there yet! That's the hoped-for next step, though, though we aren't sure which program or teacher. DS studies now with ****, probably for one year, but maybe two. The proximate goal is to get ds to THINK and not just FEEL! This guy is all about Teknik! They are working on the Presto from Bach's Sonata I with a level of attention to detail that makes MY head spin. DS is eating it up, along with the (much easier) Mozart #3 in G) - but this is the first time he has really needed to take notes and focus note-for-note on such exacting instructions. DS is doing great emotionally with this and playing wonderfully - but I HATE listening to the yelling and stamping from the teacher. I'd just wait in the car if I didn't hope that my presence has a moderating influence (shudder!).
And no, we aren't Jewish, but I totally get what you mean and it fits completely! I hope you are feeling well again!

BTW - I don't think you are bragging at all, though you could, 'cause that is a very cool story about the Haydn concerto! Completely awesome for a 7yo!

How are his musical gifts 'met' by his peers, either at piano recitals/concerts or in school? We've found in the US that musical talent/giftedness is not taken very seriously. DS was taunted for playing the violin and for loving classical music. And being the 'little guy' in the youth orchestra did nothing for him socially either...

Fiestabeth: thanks so much for your support! I hope the piano lessons are a great experience for you dd! BTW, I was also passed up when 'they' were handing out musical talent... Must have come from dh, tho my brother was also very very musical when he was younger.

[jacqueline's Mom]

Hello Profmom,

I know what it is like to have a gifted child. My daughter is 15 now, but has been playing since she was 7 years old. She can't read a note of music, but plays lead guitar, bass, drums, and keyboard. She also sings, writes, and composes her own music. you can check her out a www.myspace.com/july23rd,
or www.myspace.com/jacquelinenassar.

She began playing blues since we are from the "home of the blues", but now writes alt/pop rock. I will say this is the hardest job I have ever had. No doubt she has been given a gift from God, but I have decided he trusted it to me for a reason. Hopefully, I can fulfil my duties as a Mother. I sure have some stories I could share. It is a tough world out there so guard your child closely. I have learned the hard way.

I would love to hear more stories about your child so we can compare. I will say that you can only teach a child the basics and where they take it from there is up to them. That is for sure. My daughter use to fall asleep with the guitar in her hands. I also have a picture of her on the day I brought her home from the hospital and her hands and arms look like she is ready to hold a guitar. Didn't think much about that at the time, but wow....

Thanks for letting me share. I would love to hear some stories about

[trishadiva]

Hi, I just wanted to jump in... I *was* a musically gifted child (piano prodigy) and am the mother of a 14-month old who appears to have a similar gift. I'm also a professional singer and music teacher by trade. Do you mind if I join the discussion?

[Profmom]

jacqueline's mom - great myspace page! You ds looks awesome. Trishadiva - of course you are welcome. You two probably have the most insight to offer!
I am not musical myself, so most of the time, I just don't 'get it'!

[eilonwy]

:) That is such a cool page! I'm very impressed. :D

I've been making phone calls about enrolling Bean in Suzuki lessons. It may not happen, but I"m really keeping my fingers crossed. :fingersx: :D I'm disinclined to believe that any of my kids will be a musical prodigy, but I love music and I think it would be better for them to play than not, you know?

[jacqueline's Mom]

Eilonwy we never know what our children will be. Just have to watch nurture and help them find themselves.

[catgirl]

Welcome, new subscribers! :) That is one cool webpage! I could never in a million years do stuff like that!

!

How are his musical gifts 'met' by his peers, either at piano recitals/concerts or in school? We've found in the US that musical talent/giftedness is not taken very seriously. DS was taunted for playing the violin and for loving classical music. And being the 'little guy' in the youth orchestra did nothing for him socially either...

.

Well, they haven't been met, but it hasn't been an issue yet. What I love about music is that no-one says, oh no, you can't play a concerto because you're seven, it would be bad for you socially! Of course, if music were run the way schools are, he would be forced to practice "Twinkle" over and over till everyone else had got it! :duck:

I suppose actually there has been one problem - when he has his "graduation" recitals on completing a book, the kids his age tend not to come because they're nowhere near that level and don't meet him at group class, but the older kids don't come because he's a little kid. And they don't know quite what to make of him at group class either - the girls tend to be very sweet to him, but I can tell that one or two of the boys are jealous.

The most talented older boy, though, is very nice, and he and ds wil be playing duets this year (an arrangement of Ravel's "Mother Goose" suite, which will be pretty challenging for both of them).

Part of all this is due to being a big fish in a small pond. As his teacher puts him in for more area and regional events, though, he's coming across other very talented youngsters, so hopefully that will lead to some good things. Many of his homeschool friends play instruments, too, though not really at his level. They've played several times at nursing homes, which is great!

I'm so glad we're homeschooling! Instead of being the "music nerd", which I always was, he's "the kid who plays the piano", just like someone else is "the kid who loves history" or "the kid who's really serious about gymnastics".

[Enudely]

just subscrbing to the thread... I'm a music teacher...