HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH IT?????

Because what I want to do is smack my ds into NEXT YEAR!!!!

I need a creative and I think fun way to change his attitude....but he acts just so put upon everytime he is asked to do something. His father is deployed...ie GONE for the next 4 months...so we've already had the teamwork talk...but now all I get is ATTITUDE...and I"m gonna LOSE IT!!!!

HELP!!!!
Sus

so He's like 14 or 15? I have one of those too LOL! I have to say that when it first started I wanted to smack him too-I did find that by ignoring it helped. Moslty just because it happened so often that pointing it out and dealing with it on an instance for instance basis took all day! Another thing that helped a lot was to make a list of things that he needed to get done-on paper. A piece of paper can take all the eyerolling and huffing he wants to dish out. These things have to be done by the time he wants to leave to see friends-or have whatever. This was a pain for a few weeks-but he is great about it now-he has set chores and even though I have to remind him often still he has quit the eyerolling. Not to say we don't still see attitude-we do-but its getting better-I think that in some ways you have to see past the emerging adult and see the temper tantrum in its new teenage form. Thats why I try to ignore the tantrum and just stick to whatever its over-like you can't go anywhere until you finish your chores-no matter that some friend has called to invite him somewhere. Now there have been times where he was almost done and had been cool about his stuff and I have helped him get done. He actually seemed to be appreciative which made me feel good. Anyway I could go on and on about this-it is SUCH a work in progress. I imagine it is much more frustrating on your own. :Hug :hug

NO, He's only 10!!! (well, not quite...in 2 months he'll be 10!!!)....I like the tempertantrum analogy...that will help me ignore it!!! Becaue what I really WANT to do is poke the little suckers out!!!!! serve them to him on a fork...sort of like the pirate in Pirates of the Carribean!!!

thanks!!!!

I do have a list, I guess I just need to have it out so I can add to it daily...stuff like thank you's...that is what got him going today...

Thanks again, Sus

I really don't sweat the eye rolling and huffing and puffing. They can be displeased with me all they want and need a way to express that. It could be so much worse (physically, yelling etc). Don't sweat the small things (I know that's hard!) and hang in there!

mine is 11 and he does that!! But generally he is a good kid, it's that eyerolling thing i can do without!!

Yes, mine is basically a good kid too, but that eye rolling really gets under my skin!!!! TRYING REALLY HARD to let it roll off my back...but geez i really have to GRIT my teeth!!! Wish me luck!!!

DD does the eye rolling once in awhile. Usually it does not bother me but there are those more trying times. And yes, in an even greater once in while there is a huff and puff. What works for when I am bugged by it is letting her know two things. First, it did irk me. Second, she needs to tell me why she did it. If she is emotional and wants to wait to tell me why, I let her wait. Why mess with an angry bear who would rather smartly walk off a little steam! I want her to be able to express what it is that bothered her to cause the eyeroll. Most the time it's because she would rather not clean her room, help with dishes, do her laundry, etc. Other times though, she is rightly peeved with how I dealt with her- ei talked down to her, pulled rank, otherwise rude in my request. Anyways that's what works for us (most the time!) :)

DSS is almost 12 and does this alot! You do have to ignore it (and it is irritating, right?) for the most part... or you'll go nuts.
One things that worked somewhat, or at least was good for laughs, was that I immitated him the next time he asked me to do something! His dad laughed, I laughed and I told him, "I'm just doing what you do. Funny, isn't it?" It did improve his attitude, if only temporarily.
I agree with what another pp said ... they are such a work in progress at this age!:lol

I have been looking for a humourous way to deal with this as I LOVE to laugh, and humour seems sto be the best way to get through to DS...thanks...I'll probably have to limit my use of it, ignore it sometimes and sometimes eye roll and huff and puff and laugh it off....or my eyes might roll out of their sockets!!!

My daughter had the patent on eyerolling. I am not afraid to admit that when she would huff and roll, it would take everything for me not to send he into next week!

that said, I would just gently, but firmly say no huffing and no eye rolling. To me it was disresectful.

And as far as I'm concerned, she can be as mad as she wants. I dont care.

She is now 19, and no longer rolls her eyes and huffs.

I really don't sweat the eye rolling and huffing and puffing. They can be displeased with me all they want and need a way to express that. It could be so much worse (physically, yelling etc). Don't sweat the small things (I know that's hard!) and hang in there!

I guess maybe I'm a lot stricter than many moms on MDC, but I've found that my Dd (11) honestly doesn't always know she's doing it, and I've discussed with her the fact that other parents will be as offended or MORE offended by it when she huffs, eye-rolls, and hipchecks at them. (Hipchecking: that pompous stance with one hip cocked, saying, "I am soooooo not into you now, Mom").

We use pushups here. Eyerolling and huffing gets you ten. Arguing gets ten more, etc. If they argue that they can't do the pushups, it's ten jumping jacks for every pushup.

With woodhauling season well in swing, we've also switched the pushups to ten loads of wood (in the wheelbarrow) stacked neatly in the woodpiles.

For us, this approach gives them a reminder that rude behaviour is not tolerated, (I've even had to do pushups for saying a naughty word), and gives them a way to spend some energy and come back to the issue in a few minutes or a half hour.

I know it's not every parent's cup of tea, but it works well for us. :)

love, penelope

I don't allow it either, but I don't punish for it. I just tell em to knock it off, that only cavemen act that way. Which usually spurs a giggling fit and it's all better.

We use pushups here. Eyerolling and huffing gets you ten. Arguing gets ten more, etc. If they argue that they can't do the pushups, it's ten jumping jacks for every pushup. :bigeyes And what if they won't do it? Do you force them? It seems like a matter of time before you'd get "make me." Frankly, I think that's what I'd say to someone who told me to do push ups.

I view it to be a parent's job to guide and teach, and I don't think punishments teach much--other than how to avoid punishment. Maybe your child stops rolling their eyes at you in order to avoid the push ups--they haven't internalised why eyerolling is a bad form of communication. Internally they are still rolling their eyes at you. I'd rather my child not roll their eyes at me because they *know* it's disrespectful and they *know* there are better ways to communicate. They choose to behave rightly, not to avoid punishment, but because it's a better way to do things.

I saw the title and had to laugh. This is one of those things I can remember doing to my mom...well, I can remember it drove her nuts. And I also remember it usually happened before I even knew I'd done it. I can still hear myself saying, "But Moooooooom, I didn't MEAN to!" And I really didn't. The huff and eye roll were just like gut reactions. I wasn't mouthy, I did do what ever it was she was asking, but the eye roll/huf just HAPPENED.

Our DD is still years away from that, but I hope when she does this (and I just feel like it's one of those things most kids do at some point) I can just either mention it and move on or grit my teeth and ignore it. I know how hard it is when your face reacts before your brain says NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Don't do it!

I've been doing some reading on teens and their brains and hormones, and it's helped me understand and deal with this sort of thing. It gets annoying, and makes me crazy, but it's getting easier to shrug off as a teenager thing. I've told her straight up what I think of it, and that I won't deal with her when she's acting that way. I hope she's learning that if she does want to talk to me or get something from me she's going to have to check that behaviour at the door, cuz I have no time for it. It hasn't stopped, but she's not getting rewarded for it. I keep reminding myself that as hard as it is to be the parent of a teen it's also hard being a teen.

:bigeyes And what if they won't do it? Do you force them? It seems like a matter of time before you'd get "make me." Frankly, I think that's what I'd say to someone who told me to do push ups.

I view it to be a parent's job to guide and teach, and I don't think punishments teach much--other than how to avoid punishment. Maybe your child stops rolling their eyes at you in order to avoid the push ups--they haven't internalised why eyerolling is a bad form of communication. Internally they are still rolling their eyes at you. I'd rather my child not roll their eyes at me because they *know* it's disrespectful and they *know* there are better ways to communicate. They choose to behave rightly, not to avoid punishment, but because it's a better way to do things.

Erm, wow. They simply don't see "make me" as an option. We're a family. I'm the mom, I'm in charge and we can discuss situations and attitudes and feelings (and we do), but when they mess up (by exhibiting a behaviour they know is not allowed), they have to pull their weight and fulfill their (previously known) "punishment."

It doesn't really affect them so much as punishment as a reminder that they can't do certain things...it's just not ok, and it gives them time to chill, expends excess energy, etc. Dh has even had the (then 10yo) stomp up and down the deck stairs 100 times for stomping off when he was talking to her. No quiet walking allowed, she HAD to stomp. It amused her in the end, and made a point.

I don't view all discipline as bad. In that, I am sometimes in the minority.

Telling me my child doesn't understand why eyerolling is unacceptable is a little disingenuous. I said in my previous post that we DISCUSS these things when nobody is angry or frustrated. We talk a lot. I'm not just a mean mama, honestly. But for us, pushups are no worse than the times at night when the kids won't settle and I give in and we go outside and run laps. It gives them a physical outlet and serves a purpose.

Certainly, you don't have to agree with me, or with my parenting. But the bug-eyes and the nastiness of your post weren't exactly kind.

love, penelope

This is a cut/paste from a GD reply..I think it may apply


Mine is 12, very close to 13 and the youngest of 4!!! I have seen,heard, been through it all. I am so worn out and old that little bothers me.


I did decide years ago that I would pick my battles. If the action is something that does not hurt or degrade her or another person...I let it go. Eye rolling, shoulder shrugging, hands on hip do not hurt me or her, I just let it pass. My older kids (now 17, 19 and 22) no longer shrug, roll and the like.....hopefully my 13 year old will out grow this trait too. Screaming to some point I will let go if she is truly upset/angry/hurt. I ask her to try to name what she is feeling and ask her why she thinks she is feeling this way. I try to respect where she is as a person. Now if she hurts someone or herself emotionally or physically I will step in and have her collect her thoughts in a quite place and then we talk.



Then there are times when I just need a "quite place" and I will say, "we are not relating right now and I am feeling very on edge, I need a few minutes and I will go to my own space and collect myself.....

Chores are handled a little differently now that we only have two kids in the house. The girls each chose a certain number of chores and they chose what day they want to do them. i let my 13 year old type and print the chore list and it goes on the fridge ( she is a list kinda gal and like this for some reason) Sometimes I have remind them that I really need their help, we are family, we all have to work together blah..blah ...blah..Heck, now if I could only get my dh to do his chores.............


Can you believe how hard we thought is was when they were little..if we had only known.


Hang in there mama, peace to you both!!!

Granolamom

Erm, wow. They simply don't see "make me" as an option. We're a family. I'm the mom, I'm in charge and we can discuss situations and attitudes and feelings (and we do), but when they mess up (by exhibiting a behaviour they know is not allowed), they have to pull their weight and fulfill their (previously known) "punishment."


What I don't get (and I'm honestly asking, not trying to criticize or judge or start something) is how if you can get them to do the push-ups for the behaviour, how come you can't just get them to stop the behaviour? If they're saying, no, I'm not going to stop huffing, puffing and rolling my eyes, why do then say yes to the push-ups? Is it just a matter of it being worth it?

I'm the mom of a teen and the huffy-puffy-rolling doesn't bother me as much as the silent treatment. That gets under my skin so bad and of course, "I'm not giving you the silent treatment - I'm talking to you now, aren't I?"

Fun stuff. :)

I have to say that sometimes I do just laugh because I was an eye roller too...maybe this is paybacks...and sometimes I even say that...."OOh, I hope you get one just like you!! Because apparently that's what I got!!"

and generally I try to go by if it's not unkind, unhealthy or unsafe, don't bother with it...this just gets UNDER MY SKIN!!!! maybe too much of a mirror?

Thanks for all the replies...it does help me just let it go....

Sus

What I don't get (and I'm honestly asking, not trying to criticize or judge or start something) is how if you can get them to do the push-ups for the behaviour, how come you can't just get them to stop the behaviour? If they're saying, no, I'm not going to stop huffing, puffing and rolling my eyes, why do then say yes to the push-ups? Is it just a matter of it being worth it?

I'm the mom of a teen and the huffy-puffy-rolling doesn't bother me as much as the silent treatment. That gets under my skin so bad and of course, "I'm not giving you the silent treatment - I'm talking to you now, aren't I?"

Fun stuff. :)

I don't honestly know why. That's a good question. But in our house (and we're far more disciplinary than a lot of MDC parents), refusing to do chores or face the consequences (i.e., pushups), just isn't something they even consider. I don't beat them, I promise, and we do talk a LOT. The one rule about pushups and/or wood-hauling or whatever is that if they think we're being unfair, they need to wait til later to tell us. (This is a safe-discussion issue...if I'm assigning pushups, I'm in no state of mind probably to discuss the merits of whatever just happened). The beginning of a, "But I..." argument gets them more pushups. They just don't argue now, but we have had a few conversations where I did admit I was wrong about the intent of their behaviour, or wrong to assign pushups at the time.

They are also required to answer with "Ma'am" and "Sir," and to say "yes" or "no," instead of "whatever," or "yeah." Just good manners, IMHO.

I am well aware I'm in the tiny minority here, and aware it's shocking to many MDCers that I don't "allow" this type of behaviour. But it's how we parent, and we feel it's our duty to encourage and even to demand polite, respectful behaviour from our children. It's no different than if I were the one acting awfully...it wouldn't be ok and I'd expect to be called on it.

love, penelope

I don't view all discipline as bad. In that, I am sometimes in the minority. Discipline is not the same thing as punishment.

Telling me my child doesn't understand why eyerolling is unacceptable is a little disingenuous. It's nothing personal, I just don't believe punishment teaches anything. If we underststand why we don't stomp our feet and roll our eyes at each other, then we choose not to do it. Why punish? Most people punish so that their children will stop the offening behavior (why else would you?). They stop the behavior to avoid the punishment, not because they really understand why the behavior is wrong. Could you teach reading or math by punishing? I don' think you can teach discipline this way either. You may get compliance, but not true self-discipline.

I am well aware I'm in the tiny minority here, and aware it's shocking to many MDCers that I don't "allow" this type of behaviour. Actually, it's the drill sergeant techniques that are shocking to me.

While I try to only use natural or reasonable consequences with my kids, I also have a highly spirited child who used to have ZERO impulse control and sometimes with these kids, remembering the physicality of the consequence is easier to remember and stop an impulse than a talk about WHY...And at a younger age, my ds needed "laps" occaisionally to help him constructively work out some anger, frustration, impulsivity...but was too young or immature or both to recognize that need. Usually after the laps he said, "WHEW, I feel so much better....sorry I did X" and while I KNOW he did X without thinking, I also recognnized that his impulsivity was coming from a need to be more physical and a mere suggestion of "Maybe it's time to go outside and play" didn't work...he usually just took, the impulsivity and got escalated...but use of large muscles in a rhythmic way really seemed to help...Now that he is older and his behaviors aren't HURTING others physically I am adjusting my reactions to him and our "discipline." However, some kids need a physical outlet and consequence. My younger never has...even as a little one I could say, "OH NO, that hurt X" And he usually said, "Oh sorry." And it never came up again...however, with one who is the complete opposite, I can see the usefullness of the pushups...at least for some. However, Like I said, as Zac is able to think and rationalize and internalize more, we have moved away from that. But when he was 5, 6, 7 they were darned effective,. and even now Zac will say, "I think I need some laps." And goes out and runs or skates around a while, then comes back in...So while some mama's and kids would look at that as controlling and punitive, I see that I taught him an acceptable outlet for his anger/frustration/whatever...and I think he sees it as that also. I think a lot of it has to do with the manner in which the situation is handled. I also think it matters if kids see parents using the same tools themselves. When the kids are on my last good nerve, I say...OK, MOMMY NEEDS SOME LAPS...sit and watch TV, I'll be back in 10!!! So I don't think the kids would see laps as punitive if I am using the tool myself. KWIM?

I think as long as we consistently deal with our kiddos respectfully, apologize when we mess up, and love them unconditionally...those messages come through. And at the end of the day...none of us are perfect, but if our kids grow up knowign they are loved and accepted...we've done a good job. Even if occaisionally they roll their eyes at us.

I think another thing is that we/they continue behaviour like this if it gets us what we want or we think the reaction is still worth it. Plenty of adults to the sighing, groaning and eye-rolling thing and have probably been doing it for years.

I've seen parents (and I'm sure I do it sometimes too) give in to their kids because they can't deal with the stuff. Like, kids know "If I ask for this twice I won't get it, but if I nag and nag and don't let it go, sometimes she gives in." That basically turns into us teaching them to act that way because it gets the desired results.

I think with the teen huffing and puffing the same thing can happen - if you react the way they're hoping you react, they will keep doing it.

lotus beans....SO TRUE...and just goes to illustrate that it is a teenage tempertantrum...

Sus

While I try to only use natural or reasonable consequences with my kids, I also have a highly spirited child who used to have ZERO impulse control and sometimes with these kids, remembering the physicality of the consequence is easier to remember and stop an impulse than a talk about WHY...And at a younger age, my ds needed "laps" occaisionally to help him constructively work out some anger, frustration, impulsivity...but was too young or immature or both to recognize that need. Usually after the laps he said, "WHEW, I feel so much better....sorry I did X" and while I KNOW he did X without thinking, I also recognnized that his impulsivity was coming from a need to be more physical and a mere suggestion of "Maybe it's time to go outside and play" didn't work...he usually just took, the impulsivity and got escalated...but use of large muscles in a rhythmic way really seemed to help...Now that he is older and his behaviors aren't HURTING others physically I am adjusting my reactions to him and our "discipline." However, some kids need a physical outlet and consequence. My younger never has...even as a little one I could say, "OH NO, that hurt X" And he usually said, "Oh sorry." And it never came up again...however, with one who is the complete opposite, I can see the usefullness of the pushups...at least for some. However, Like I said, as Zac is able to think and rationalize and internalize more, we have moved away from that. But when he was 5, 6, 7 they were darned effective,. and even now Zac will say, "I think I need some laps." And goes out and runs or skates around a while, then comes back in...So while some mama's and kids would look at that as controlling and punitive, I see that I taught him an acceptable outlet for his anger/frustration/whatever...and I think he sees it as that also. I think a lot of it has to do with the manner in which the situation is handled. I also think it matters if kids see parents using the same tools themselves. When the kids are on my last good nerve, I say...OK, MOMMY NEEDS SOME LAPS...sit and watch TV, I'll be back in 10!!! So I don't think the kids would see laps as punitive if I am using the tool myself. KWIM?

I think as long as we consistently deal with our kiddos respectfully, apologize when we mess up, and love them unconditionally...those messages come through. And at the end of the day...none of us are perfect, but if our kids grow up knowign they are loved and accepted...we've done a good job. Even if occaisionally they roll their eyes at us.


I think if what you are saying is that some kids need a physical outlet for frustration and anger, I agree. Teaching that through guidance and example, as you suggest, is great! But, I believe push ups as a punishment to be just another way for an adult to assert his or her power over a child. This is why it's used by the Army. They want to show the new recruits who is in change and teach blind obedience. They don't care if you agree with the rules as long as you obey them. My goals for my children are much loftier and long term.

My younger never has...even as a little one I could say, "OH NO, that hurt X" And he usually said, "Oh sorry." And it never came up again...however, with one who is the complete opposite, I can see the usefullness of the pushups... It does take much more guidance and maturing for most children to learn. Imposing a punishment might get you quicker obedience, but that's not my goal.

lotus beans....SO TRUE...and just goes to illustrate that it is a teenage tempertantrum...

Sus

Yeah, it is in so many ways just that. I remind myself that there's a lot of stuff she does now that I don't have to correct or worry about - it's stuff that she'll just shed once she gets past these years.

Glad I found this thread. My ten-year-old dd (she'll be 11 in Dec.) has shown some similar behavior though hers tends to go further than just the eye rolls. She'll huff and puff and eventually will start to yell and try to storm out of the room. If she is sent to her room to cool down she will often escalate and start screaming into her pillows and tearing up paper. It is MAJOR and really hard to stay unaffected by.

We had a really big incident last week and kept her home from school that day to work through it. At one point she was in her room and just drew a ton of pictures on page after page of paper. Looking at these were really helpful. We made the most progress in our talks about the pictures she had drawn and were able to laugh.

We have spoken with her teacher at school about this. She attends a Waldorf school and they had some insights based on Rudolph Steiner's philosophy that addresses some of this. He speaks of the 9 and 10 year phase as quite challenging for children. They are just beginning to discover and explore their individuality (the eye rolls are one expression of their independence from our opinions). This is both exciting and terrifying because they are breaking out of some of their childhood securities. Testing boundries is another big part of this.

My DD's teacher put it this way: You are a firm frame that provides structure for your child's life. As they get older they will will butt against this to test the strenghth of this structure. Wheedling, whining, begging, stomping, screaming, huffing, puffing....all to test the strength of their role models...to test the "deservedness" of this position. "Are you worthy of my emulation?", "Do your values withstand questioning?", "Is this structure strong enough to build upon?"...these are questions they are asking us everytime we "butt heads". If we buckle and give into them, or allow them to be the ones to dictake the form and shape of this structure, their diappointment with be acute. This is not to say that we are rigid and unmoving in any of our rules and requests....there is always room for flexibility, but we all know when it goes past that... Think of firm padding as oppossed to cinderblock...firm, but some give. This is something they need from us for their stability and sense of security and love.

Others have reminded me that this time period for children is a time of great fluctuation in their inner chemistry. This resonates physically, mentally and spiritually with children.....during this period of time they are often not themselves...they are in the grips of major chemical shifts that are much like strong undercurrents in the ocean...it can take some time to swim out of this current and come to grips once they are pulled into it.

This really helped me to draw the strength I needed to stick to my guns about the really important stuff (blatant disrespect to her family members etc.) and the sense of humor to kind of let some of the smaller stuff slide.

I have also found considerable help in books about Indigo children and a book called "Raising Your Spirited Child".

Hope this helps and thanks for letting me vent a little, too. I know that things can be quite different for boys and girls, but at this age, they are both just entering puberty and are going through many of the same things phsychologically. Has your ds always been emotional or is this kind of new? My dd is naturally theatrical, as well (think crying in front of the mirror to see how it looks kind of thing) and this just adds to the drama. Good luck!

If it is a situation where I know that he feels it is unfair, I let it go. He needs to express it somehow. But, if I feel that he is just being unreasonable (ie. it is his job to take out trash, I asked nicely twice and now I'm saying, "Do it now," and he huffs and puffs) then I do stop him and say, "Why are you doing that? What are you trying to say?" He usually doesn't have much of an arguement (because if he had a reasonable gripe, I let him puff). I think the little annoyance of having to stop and express your feelings to your stepmom, or explain your annoyance has cut down on the huffing and puffing.

Ilanam...I LOVE the frame analogy....That was so helpful to me...I printed it out and pasted it to my mirror (which no longer really looks like a mirror, rather all the things I need to remind myself of before I start my day!!)

Flor....good info also...Zac is quite the visual spatial learner, so often has trouble communicating with words...this will just be one more instance I can ask him to express his thoughts/feelings clearly with words...and maybe learn some respectful ways of communicating to each other, and he might see what realistic expectations are!!! Well, I can hope right???

Thanks to all!!! Sus

i am new to the on line community so if i make mistake please let me know.

i have 4 dd's 19,18,17,7. we are a mixed family!! two mine, one his, one ours. i also raised my sister from 16 on when i was in my twenties. we also use discipline in our house. i feel it is important to teach my children action/consequence. if i act inappropriately at work i would have expect to be reprimanded. if i act inappropriately at the ball feild, school or even most other public places i would expect some sort of repricussions and i want my children to understand that and also that no one else can control their behavior and actions they have to learn to do this own their on. i guess i will be a minority as well. we do not use excercise though i don't think it is a bad idea one i might try. but we will ground, send to room, take phone, assign extra chores etc.. also if they really mess up they have to work with me ALL DAY on SATURDAY to teenagers this is torture not just the whole day of work but on a saturday... it usually makes my point. and i do not reales from punishment for anything!! if i ground you you will stay grounded for the whole time no exceptions. i am the mom nuf said.

hutsonmom