In support of younger mothers

[Jamiemama]

This is a great article discussing women who chose to have children in their teens and early twenties. I had my first child at 32 and am expecting my 2nd at 34. But I appreciate this article for discussing the fact that there is no evidence that younger mothers are not just as great moms as women who wait and also that there can be drawbacks for waiting. But as the author says - there is no perfect time to have a child. I just thank God every day he blessed me with mine when he did!!

http://www.observer.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,935502,00.html

[daylily]

Thanks for sharing that.

having children young has always been viewed as a social problem in this country rather than a serious option for women trying to plan their lives sensibly.


Although this quote was referring to the UK, I think it's true in the US as well. I had my first child at age 23, and a second at age 24. By age 29, I had conceived my 4th child. Now, at 34, I am younger than most of my children's friends parents were when they had their first child.

I could go on for pages about the ageist crap I've had to deal with since I became a mother. I have to deal with it even now, at age 34. When people find out I have a four children, or when they see me out with my almost-11 year old, I can see by their facial expressions that they are thinking "teen age mother." I'm *not* imagining it. I've seen it time and time again. It's like they see me and think "She looks like a nice person" and when they find out about my children, their faces change, they look disappointed and I can tell they're thinking that I'm not such a nice person after all.

Infertility problems run in my family. My mother had endometriosis, and her sister, my aunt, had it at an early age and ended up with a hysterectomy at age 25. My decision to have children early in life was planned as calculatingly as a woman plans her rise to the top of the corporate ladder. To my mind, anyone could have a career, but children were something precious and having them was my first priority. A career could come later.

Do I sound bitter? I am bitter. I once had a group of people at a bus stop taunt me as I walked past. "Get some birth control!" they shouted.

When I was 30 I was about to sign a petition to put Ralph Nader's name on the ballot in our state. If you recall, the Nader campaign was pracitcally begging people to sign these petitions. I had my children with me, approached the petitioner, and she stopped me, looked at me doubtfully, and said, "Are you registered to vote?"

People in this country find it hard to accept that an educated woman would choose to have a baby at an early age, and that is sad, IMO. It shows an underlying lack of respect for mothers and children and the work we do.

[XM]

Wow, daylily, I am so sorry that you have had to put up with that kind of treatment. I wanted to say as well that IMO this kind of mentality is disrespectful to children as well, as in, "why would a young woman CHOOSE to have a baby?" as if it's something lowly and distasteful instead of something that may well have been longed for and planned and very much wanted.

I have had some people ask how old I am... I have been told that I look 19 (guess they are'nt looking close enough as I do have a few grey hairs, lol, I'll be 27 in July), so I wonder if I'll be getting the 'teen mom' look myself when this baby arrives...

So sad, that with the gains women have made in the workforce that mothering is seen as second best to a career... a woman can have a career anytime, but her window for childbearing is limited (for some women even more limited then for others). I thought women wanted choices... so why is'nt being a mother a viable and respected choice?

I better stop now, getting into a big barrell of philosophical monkeys there... :D

XM

[The Lucky One]

I also look really young for my age (27), or so I've been told.

I can remember being out and about when I was pg and having people look at my belly, then my face, then their nosy eyes scanned for a wedding ring. When they saw it shining away on my left hand, *then* they smiled.

Grrrr....

More power to young mamas!

lisa

[pixiemama]

Thanks for the article! Being a young, black, AP mama, I get tons of looks. Of course, people always assume I must've been a teenage mom, that my kids have a different last name, etc, etc. I guess I forget to wear my "married at 18 and first child at 20 by choice" sometimes. :rolleyes:

[MamaMonica]

That is interesting. I always feel old because I had my first at 35 and have been terribly self-conscious of being older than other mothers... I think children come when they are ready and mothers can be great moms at any age.

[joesmom]

i am 29, my ds is 4. i was 25 when he was born & i look about 16, on a good day. plus ds is really big- not fat, just tall & solid. i had one man @ burger king literally shake his head & tsk tsk to his friend, "too young to be a mom." to this day i regret not going back & giving him a piece of my mind!!

i guess by today's staqndards, i was a younger mom, although i felt like 25 was ancient!

dayliliy said:

I had my first child at age 23, and a second at age 24. By age 29, I had conceived my 4th child. Now, at 34, I am younger than most of my children's friends parents were when they had their first child.

my best friend is my age, she has 3 kids, ages 6, 8 & 10. she has known her whole life she was meant to be a mom & she is so good at it, but i know there are people who wonder why she has "so many" kids so "young." :rolleyes: never mind the fact that if her youngest dd did not have autism she'd prob. have 1 or 2 more kids by now, but she doesn't want to take away from teh care she can give her little girl.

i think there are some great teen moms & some crappy ones. just the same as there are good & bad older moms. you cannot judge a woman's ability to mother on her age alone. my sil has a daughter who is 16, she was 14 when she had her. and she rocks as a mom!

the people who criticize young moms would find something else to gripe about if we were not around. some people are just miserable! :rolleyes:

[sarahmae1]

Thanks so much for this thread! I had my ds at 20, and I looked about 16. I get so many looks, and a few comments... I too, have always known what I wanted to do and that is to be a mom! I can work when my kids are older, if I chose. I don't really understand putting carreer before family, but that seems to be the trend nowdays. It seems like young moms, like myself, have a stigma attached to them of being "bad moms" - which simply isn't true. On another forum I frequent, I've shocked many when revealing my age - but I've also proved to them that you don't have to be over 30 to be a good mother.
Proud mom, ttc #2 at age 23.

[starfairy]

Yes! I am constantly hearing people say "I was young, I didnt know any better" or listen to people talk about other young parents to be as if they are stupid & dont know what they are doing. I had my first at 18. Breastfed, cloth diped, brought her to bed with me - I was the most patient person in the world back then! I didnt always make the *best* choices BUT i DEFIITELY THINK i WAS A BETTER PARENT BACK THEN. tHE CHOICES i AM NOT HAPPY WITH ARE CHOICES THAT i'VE SEEN NEW PARENTS IN THEIR 4OS MAKE (sorry for the caps!oops!).

I still get the "you dont seem old enough to have a 12 yr old" speech ... and then if I am in the mood to say how old I was they get that "embarrased for me" look & brush off the topic! Like I am inferior..........

sorry.... while you were worried about prom dresses I was out working & supporting myself.... while you were in college (or not!) partying, getting drunk & stoned I was raising a baby.... how embarrasing for me :rolleyes: LOL!

[mamapixie]

Oh yeah, I got that kind of stuff all the time. I had Ben when I was 20 years old, and looked about 15. I still look young, so you should see the stares I get now when both my boys are with me, DH in Korea, and I don't wear a wedding ring. I just ignore it...

[WickidaWitch]

I had soooo much more energy with my first at 18 than my second at 32.

[mrzmeg]

Thank you so much for posting that article.
I'm 20 and chose to have my children early, for many different reasons (more energy, easier recovery, don't have to put career on hold, etc). I get stares and I know that my family thinks poorly of me (thanks to my 7-yr old sister who has a big mouth and repeats what she hears). More than that, though, some of my AP decisions like not vaxing are looked at with even more suspicion than they would normally be, i.e. I only do that because I'm young and stupid and don't really understand the risks :rolleyes:.
I'm so tired of it. That article articulated what I've been thinking for a while and gave me some ideas of things to say the next time I feel criticized.

[Sativarain1]

Wow Daylily, I dont' know how you deal with that , I'm sorry that people treat you that way, must be hard. I'd prolly cry if it kept happening.~

Thanks for starting this thread, I was 19 when I had my first son, and people were kind to me surprisngly, people would come up and touch my belly and say you are blessed, and smile =)
that made me feel good, I didn't like the belly touching tho lol

anyway I know have a second child that's going on 2 in August, and I'm now 23 ..... and I've only received a few comments, one is always do they have the same dad?? I reply Yes.
why do people ask this??? I wish I knew?

and one time a woman said oh your too young to have these babies, all I could say was well I'm happy to have them and be their mother. She was only about 400lbs and I wanted to say, you should really be in a gym, but I didn't.
People just blab whatever they feel without thinking, and it sometimes hurts......

I am glad I chose to have them young, just recently I was told I have some pre cancerous cells in my cervix, and have to have surgery, one of the outcomes of the surgery is my cervix might not close so no more children, I feel thankful that God allowed me to have them young..

thanks for letting me share! =)
Valerie

[LavenderMae]

I had my daughter when I was 20. She was a surprise but I wanted to have my first child by 23 so we weren't too far off. I have always wanted to be a mother.
I got a lot of evil looks when I was preg with my daughter I guess it didn't help I look all of about 16. I still got them with my son and I was 25 when I had him (almost 20 mths ago).
I have people asking me how old I am a lot, when they see me with my kids. Or I get the *oh what a shame another teenage mother look*, ugh.
The thing that bugged me the most though was how people would address questions about my baby towards my mother when she was with us. Even after I would let them know I was the mother they would continue,wtf?

[starfairy]

Originally posted by Sativarain1


I am glad I chose to have them young, just recently I was told I have some pre cancerous cells in my cervix, and have to have surgery, one of the outcomes of the surgery is my cervix might not close so no more children, I feel thankful that God allowed me to have them young..

thanks for letting me share! =)
Valerie

Hey! Just wanted to lYK - i had several bouts of precancerous cells removed before my first- finally had part of my cervix removed a few months after she was born - for some freaky reason despite all the Dr's prediction I have had SEVERELY INCREASED fertility!!! As in, ever since I get pregnant first try (or not trying as the case may be!)!!! So - you never know! :) I was told I wouldnt get preg, then told I would need cerclage & bedrest, then I was told my cervix wouldnt dilate on its own - all wrong :)

12 yrs later I've had 3 unassisted births & no more precancerous cells on my cervix!

I also know of women who have rid themselves of precancerous cells using herbs & vitamins - if you are interested in more info, please PM me :)

Blessings,
Anne-Marie

[mamaley]

Thanks so much for sharing that article! That seriously made my day. I'm printing it. I've never heard anything that close to being positive about young parents in the media ever, except for if written by other young parents. People seem amazed that my husband and I are good parents and that we are "actually doing fine". I think that article raised so many good points about the advantages of doing this young. I love my life, I love my son and my baby-to-be, I love my husband and marriage, and my 23 year old mothering self. I know several older mamas and the adjusting they've had to do seems like so much more than what we've had to go through. I know there are advantages both ways, but people seem to think that it is so unnatural to have children this young. Ignorance!
Keep it up, young mamas :love

[Sativarain1]

thanks Anne-Marie (starfairy) that gives me hope! =)

[Celestial]

http://mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48180

Did you all see this thread I started over in finding your tribe?

[Pynki]

I'd like to know when being 20 became young to have kids.. When my mother was younger 20 was not uncommon, or unheard of.. My mother was pg with me when she was 22 and had me when she was 23.. MY grandparets had their kids WAY younger than that.. So when i was 23 and pg and people were giving me that look i wanted to scream look i am 23 not 16.. (Which is what i looked at the time.. ) I will be 29 this year, and still look young for my age.. (HURRAY !!!! I hope that lasts for another 10 years or more!!!) I do wonder when motherhood became such a burden, and not a joy.. As if you are young you can not possibly know what you want in life, or what is truly involved when you have children...

Warm Squishy Feelings...

Dyan
:thumb

[Joi]

I had my daughter at 23 and it was not an easy trip. The doctors (while I was pg) would always talk to my mother instead of talking to me. Since I had her I have had people assume because I look so young she must have been a mistake or a lapse in judgement. And I must admit my favorite moments are when people see me with River and ask if she is my sister or I am her nanny.(it doesn't help issues at all that she is pale with blonde hair and blue eyes and I am darkish with black hair and brown eyes either).

I do not ever regret having her at a youngish age. I felt ready and I think that is what is important. I am ready to have another and don't really look forward to the "oh you poor young thing" looks as I walk down the street ................. but hey I don't mind at all if they look at me like that because they think I am 16 :wink

[Missgrl]

Moving this to Finding Your Tribe now!:hippie
good luck young mamas!!!!!

[Chi-Chi Mama]

a week ago, I was at the beach with Ana and my little sister.. a nice couple stopped by to tell us how beautiful Ana was.. then proceeded to ask if we were all sisters. I said no, I am her mother. The woman seemed to be really shocked, going "oh." I thought it was kind of funny and asked her how old she thought I was.. she said "18?" I laughed and said, no, I 'm almost 25.

she seemed a bit embarrased.. after a few minutes of talking, she told me she thought I was a little younger than 18, but didn't want to say it.

they seemed like nice people, but I was pretty offended.

I guess some people always find something they can look down on your for. I've seen older moms get crap too

[eilonwy]

I am 25 and look very young for my age; two months ago i was carded trying to buy a lottery ticket! :rollseyes: I got lots of nasty looks while i was pregnant because i can't wear a wedding ring (i'm allergic to everything but platinum, and that's expensive!) and i look like a kid, but because i was so miserable being pregnant, i yelled at people, "I'm 24 and married, thanks for asking, jerk!" :angry *hehe*

Does anyone else find it ironic that the news is telling women that they're waiting too long to have kids, but society is telling them just the opposite? Just recently I read an article about a woman who waited until she was 32 and found out that she needed fertility drugs or maybe IVF to get pregnant. Doctors are advising women not to wait so long to have kids, or they may have no kids at all, but when I, at 25, go out with my son, people give me nasty looks. I say let them be jerks. When they can't have kids because they waited too long, that's more resources for mine. (I know, I'm mean, but it really irks me!)

[StarMama]

Originally posted by eilonwy
I am 25 and look very young for my age; two months ago i was carded trying to buy a lottery ticket! :rollseyes: I got lots of nasty looks while i was pregnant because i can't wear a wedding ring (i'm allergic to everything but platinum, and that's expensive!) and i look like a kid, but because i was so miserable being pregnant, i yelled at people, "I'm 24 and married, thanks for asking, jerk!" :angry *hehe*



I'm 25 and look 16... get carded buying spray paint. I'm sure having this kiddo is gonna get me looks and such. I think I'll shout out what you say when I feel brave!

I wanted to let you know something a bit :OT. I was having allergies from my gold wedding ring, and went in to get it priced to having the inside platnium plated. I thought it would be HORRIBLY expensive, but it cost 25$! That was IT! The coating was so thin its not even a different color, but it works! No more rashes! So I just thought I'd let you know, having a bit of the inside of the jewlery plated was really cheap for us, and maybe, if you *want* to wear a ring, you could!

[LavenderMae]

Originally posted by eilonwy
I am 25 and look very young for my age; two months ago i was carded trying to buy a lottery ticket!

I got carded a few months ago trying to buy a lottery ticket.:rolleyes: I'm 26.

[piercedmama]

I certainly know how all that goes. I had the little dude when I was 19 and I have people ask me all the time if I'm his baby-sitter! When I tell them I'm his mama, I get nasty nasty looks.

I also look young for my age, I'm 21 and get told all the time I look 14! The last bar I went into they wouldn't serve me, even with I.D.

It's frusterating for people think because you are young, you know nothing about kids. I've seen people my age and younger be great parents.

[neveryoumindthere]

*

[GoodWillHunter]

I had my first at 23. I was a single mom who lived with my parents. I got married in February 2000, and in June 2000, had boy/girl twins. When they were 7 months old, I was pg with number four. The most annoying things I've heard were "You DO know how this happens, don't you?" A complete stranger said "I bet you were nursing the twins and didn't think about birth control, did you?" I was astonished and not a little angry that a stranger felt he could say something so personal (that wasn't what happened, but why discuss it with him???).
I work in a hospital, so I do see children (ages 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16) having children. Oftentimes, the bfs are not in the picture and these young women are left to deal with the situation. I believe if these girls realize what a huge responsibility having sex is, then, perhaps, they would wait until they could support themselves. I've been there, dependent on my parents and with child. It's not a fun situation. I was one of the lucky ones. I had help and support. To those moms who are of the younger variety....YOU GO GIRL! As my husband says, I'd rather be a younger dad than 60 when the baby is 20. Go figure. :thumb

[LaffNowCryLater]

Thanx! 18 year old mom here to a 3 month old :D

[Celestial]

:OT

LaffNowCryLater:
I just wanted to say welcome, and that I'm wishing you more laughing, and less crying, now or later. :)

[LovAttach]

Hi I am 28 and have 3 kid and planning on having a very large family. I want to have another child before I turn 30. I have a 9 yr old 4 1/2 yr old and a 6 mo. old. I was a single mother and then got married and divorced before I ahd my 2nd. I got married over a yr ago to a wonderful man and we are both conservative christians. I lov emy life and could not imagine being anything else but a SAHM who homeschools. I love being the woman who takes care of the house when my husabnd is being out proivder. I am doing what the Lord ahs called on me to do. He will give me only as much as I can handle. I don't hav emuch in common with woman who are older mothers. Because I really didn't hav emuch of a career befor eI ahd my kids I worked as a haristylist for 5 yrs and hated it. I love being home with my kids. I think this is a great thread. My 3 children have 3 differnt fathers and people who don't know me may give me dirty looks but I am a very loving Chrisitan woman who has learned not to judge. We AP, BF, Co-sleep, EC, etc.. HS

[informed]

I am 21 and pg with my 3rd. I sure hope I have enough guts to really tear into anyone who has the nerve to say to me what some people have said to the gals on this thread. Argh people make me mad :angry

[Greaseball]

I got pg for the first time when I was 22. It was accidental, I was unmarried, and I think it was the best thing that ever happened to me! So much for "ruining my life!"

The people at the birth center kept giving me all these informational pamphlets on how I could get the best nutrition as a pregnant teen:rolleyes: and they even sent my dh out of the room. (We got married in my 1st trimester - he was 38 and looked his age, and I apparently looked like a teenager so I could just imagine what they were thinking!) It was hard enough to get my dh to come to the appt anyway; he was thinking it would be awkward and that he would be the only man there, and I was telling him that in fact I was the only one who ever showed up without a man and finally he decides to come and they tell him to leave.:angry

I'm 24 now (dh is 41) and would like to have another by age 25 or 26; we don't have the room for another one now though, so we'll see. I would like to be all done reproducing by age 30, and dh wants to be done by 45 so we've got about 4 more years. Dh's mom had 3 kids by age 23; it was normal back then.

I think it's great if anyone wants to have a baby, no matter what age they are. I have only one piece of advice for pg teens - give birth at home! The horror stories you hear about low birth weight, infant death, etc. all happen to hospital birth teens. I think if more teens had home births, people would see they can be just as healthy as anyone else.

Sometimes strangers come up to me and say "How old are you" and then "And is that your child?!" I should just say I'm 12.

[lunar forest]

Yes yes! Give birth at home! I think in the hospitals there are so many preconceived ideas about young mothers that they really treat you like trash sometimes! I hate to be treated like a child! I am an intelligent, well read women, and the best mother in the world, but people can really undermine that confidence and ruin a lot of the experience of giving birth (among other things.)

Edited for typos.

[CookieMonsterMommy]

When I was pregnant, I got a lot of "Oh great, A Pregnant Teen" looks, but that's because I was a pregnant teen, which is also why they were more insulting. At least most of you can say "No, I'm not a Teenage Mother!" or something. Not that I've ever been ashamed of it, but it seems like even here, it's already a negative to be a teenager, kind of like you're insulted because they thought you were under 20. I was 16 when I gave birth, no drugs, at a birth center to a 9lb healthy baby boy. I breastfed, co-slept, tried to hold off on the vax (long story-my mother took him in w/o my permission), and now at age 20-ds is 4 and I homeschool him.

I dunno, maybe I'm taking it the wrong way. Or maybe I'm just overly sensitive from having to basically claw my way through society, from store employees that ALWAYS direct me to the cheaper goods (was in Macys yesterday with my 4 yo ds to by my SO a watch. When I asked to look at one of the Bulovas, the sales lady-before even reaching for her keys to open up the display case-says to me "Miss, we have some much less expensive items around the corner. These watches start at around $150"-I was so pissed, and bought the watch from another store, showing it to her as I left the mall), to people blatently shaking their heads at me. And the fact that my son is biracial doesn't help (not that I'm ashamed of that either). His own pediatrician (obviously not the one we continued to see) said to me "I just hope he doesn't have any health problems later down the road. You kids think only about yourselves and then your children suffer." (excuse me, but he's healthier than anyone in my family and at age 4 already knows how to read with help.) This is the same lady who just DID NOT want to believe that I co-slept with my son because I thought it was the right thing to do, but instead kept insisting that "There's no shame buying a crib at a garage sale!" and who reminded me that vaccines were covered in my insurence, so "See, your son doesn't have to miss them!".

I'm sorry for this rant. Phew! I feel a little better now. It's just hard when you're young and everyone automatically judges you on that. I've had problems from everything from applying to jobs to setting up playdates because everyone assumes that because I'm young, I must be very irresponsible/immoral/etc.
:cuss
Best Wishes all!

PS-You are so right about hospital's opinions of young mothers...where I gave birth (in a hospital based Birth Center with a CNM), I was forced to meet with a social worker-who came in while I was attempting latch on and refused to leave and come back because she was a busy lady. This woman tried her very best to convince me to try to file statutory rape against my boyfriend (who was 17 at the time of the pregnancy, but 18 at the birth). In NY, there has to be a 5 year difference-hello-obviously that didn't apply! And when I said no, it wasn't rape in any form (for God's sake, the guy's 2 years and a few months older, you'd have thought he was 50! But I think him being black had something to do with it), she tried for another 10 minutes to explain that even if I said no once, it's still rape! OMG! Most of the nurses were nice, but two were horrible. One, a male, came to check my tear about 3 hrs after the birth and sees my stomach. "Wow, that's a shame" he says about my stretch marks. "I guess you won't be wearing any of those belly shirts to school when you go back! You are going back, right?" and some lady, who when I told her I'd like to meet with the LC before I was discharged said to me "Well, honey. You're going to go back to school, right? Why even bother starting if you have to stop in a few weeks? I mean, when you go back to school and there's no baby there to drink, you don't want to start leaking in the middle of English or History, right? And beside, you're young! You don't want boobs that hang down to your belly button!" and thought this was so funny, she even asked the orderly who was in the room refilling the glove boxes, what she thought about a 16 year old with saggy, leaking boobs. :bang Okay, again, I apologize!

[Celestial]

Hey CookieMonsterMommy. Trust me, I'm not knocking teen moms. I've walked that road. I went through the same crap you did, because I was 17 when pregnant, and turned 18 only 20 days before my oldest was born.

I just wanted to send you a hug. :hug

I wish I could say it gets better, and people treat you better, but it doesn't, as long as your oldest is with you, and they do the math. And God forbid you decide to have more than 2 kids, on top of everything else! But I will say, as I've aged, I've gotten better at standing up for myself in the face of these rude people!

Good luck with everything.

[eilonwy]

CookieMonsterMommy, I just had to address your post.

I'm one of those "looks-really-young-but-isn't" moms, and I am very greatful that I can at least say "I'm 25!" when people give me nasty looks. There seem to be some things that you're missing, though. Do you know any other teen parents?

My sister had my older niece at 15. She was a healthy 7lbs 6oz (perfectly average for a little girl), full term, and beautiful. Not all of my sister's friends who had babies were so lucky. Many of the babies were too big, too small, or sick. Being very young means problems are more likely to occur; that's a fact. It makes nutrition a bigger issue, because pregnant teenagers don't always make the best choices when it comes to food. They don't usually make the best decisions, period. The teenaged brain is not designed to make long term decisions. (I'm not saying this to be mean. I was a teenager not that long ago, and I remember doing it.)

Why do people "assume" that a pregnant teenager is irresponsible? Because even if you made a conscious decision to get pregnant at 14 or 15, it's not the most responsible thing to do. My sister made a conscious choice to get pregnant. She definately did it on purpose. At the time, she was very defensive and angry anytime anyone suggested that it was a mistake. She even spent several years blaming me for it (long story, but I certainly didn't make her do it). Now, she is 21 years old with a 6 year old and a 3 year old. She's not thrilled with her life. She's only recently realized that most people her age don't have kids in school. It's somewhat embarassing to her now.

My sister was also very lucky: she had help. Several of her friends who got pregnant found themselves living on the streets. The luckier ones got into shelters or the YWCA. Most of them did not have any assistance from their partners or their parents. Most of them did not come from wealthy households, or even middle class ones. The ones who did come from middle class backgrounds didn't all end up with healthy babies that they got to keep either.

At my old high school, there was a nursery for student moms with a *long* waiting list. The school district did everything they could to keep kids in school. There were (and are) lots of young mothers in my high school. They like buy expensive clothing for their kids that they can't afford so they can parade them around the school or the mall saying "Look, I'm a good mother! My baby has ______". They'd rather spend $50 on a single outfit than buy enough undershirts for the kid, or have enough diapers.

I understand that you're a responsible parent with a healthy child and that you've got plenty of money. Good for you! Maybe you made a conscious decision to get pregnant at 15 and have a baby at 16. I just don't think you should be surprised that when people see a teen mom they get upset. More often than not, it's a sad situation. My nieces are doing pretty well, and my sister is okay too, but not all people in that situation are. In fact, most aren't. The vast majority of the ones I've met (irl) are poor, some even struggling to survive, and in retrospect wish they'd been brave enough to tell their bf's to use a condom. They love their kids, and for the most part wouldn't change anything about them, but they wish they had thought more carefully about it and planned better.

[Celestial]

eilonwy:
I'm not sure why you made this post on this thread, which is supposed to be for support?

[Greaseball]

I don't think it's "sad" that teenagers have babies, unless of course they were raped, as many of them are. (Yet how often does one hear of "irresponsible teen fathers" or "little boys trying to make grown-up choices and now their lives are ruined"?) I think if someone wants to have a baby, whether they planned to or not, that's great!

And no wonder younger mothers and their babies have so many health problems, given the way they are treated in the hospital and how the nurses do their best to talk them out of breastfeeding.

I have a friend who had an unplanned pregnancy when she was 20. A doctor, not even an OBGYN, told her that because she had diabetes, she would have to have a 1st trimester abortion because she would never be able to have a baby. Like so many women, she was raised to do whatever a man said without question (that's also how she got pregnant) so she had an abortion. This woman was also black, single, poor, the daughter of a woman on welfare, and had some minor physical and learning disabilities. This sounds like eugenics to me. Lots of diabetic women have babies!

Pregnant adults often don't make good choices either; look at the way they drink and smoke and give birth in hospitals when they are perfectly healthy.

No one deserves to be punished or ridiculed for being pregnant.

[CookieMonsterMommy]

I would like to first state/warn that I may be a little on the defensive side:

Eilon: I have to respectfully disagree with you in a number of ways.
#1 Most teenage brains don't comprehend long term decisions because they have had no experience. I know people in college (most of them actually) in their 20's who have NO idea how to think through a situation and contemplate the long term effects. This has nothing to do with anatomy and physiology, but with their lack of life experiences.

#2 My choice was not irresponsible. While teenage mothers DO have a recorded higher incidence of birth defects, low birth weight, etc, that is NOT taking into consideration that many teen mothers hide their pregnancy, are underweight, avoid early (or any) prenatal care, eat "normal" teenage diet of soda, chips and fast food, smoke, and are under-educated as far as pregnancy/birth goes. The same pregnancy outcomes are noted in women of any age with the preceeding risk factors. That WAS NOT the case with myself. I ate well, did not smoke, got prenatal care as soon as I found out, and made informed decisions regarding my pregnancy.

#3 As far as mothers buying their children fancier clothes and bragging about it, I think that people like yourself share a large part of the blame for that. Young mothers (incl. teenage) have tremendous (undue) pressure to "prove" themselves to society. These mothers were desperately seeking approval from their peers and elders, and it's sad that they felt the need to do so. With all the negative crap we hear on a daily (sometimes seems like hourly) basis, so many of us feel that we're willing to do almost anything to finally hear something positive about us or our children. And in this materialistic society, nice clothes get positive attention, and obviously not nice clothes get not nice attention.
I'm sure that if the children wore slightly stained, ripped or ill fitting garage sale items, people (you?) would say things like, "That poor silly girl can't even clothe her child properly". Not exactly a win-win situation for us, is it?

#4 I'm sorry about how your sister felt/feels, but me, I couldn't be happier with my life. The only thing I would change is maybe add another kid or two, minus about 10 pounds, and add an extra 4 hours in the day (lol). I am still with my son's father, and not embarassed at all to have a (homeschooled) 4 year old at the age of 20. The fact that she is embarassed makes me feel sorry for her and her children (not meaning to be rude at all).

#5 More often than not, seeing a teen mom is a sad situation because this mother has been judged before she has been given a chance....When I was pregnant, I couldn't have been happier or healthier. The only thing that brought me down was when some idiot would be evesdropping on my conversation with a friend/peer/etc and say something stupid like, "Oh my God! And you're happy about that" or see me in the store and shake their head or something similar.

#6 (final point, and not because I have nothing more to say-lol-but because it's late and I'd like to go to the gym before they close) Those teenage mothers who wished they were brave enough to ask their BFs to use a condom really should have been on the pill or used a sponge or female condom at the least.

Thank you! I'll be here all week! Be sure to tip your waitress!

[CookieMonsterMommy]

Just wondering, Eilon, when is an acceptable age to "responsibly" bring a child into this world? Is it when one graduates from HS and enters "the real world"-17, or becomes of legal voting age-18, or when she loses the "teen" at the end of her age-20, or is of legal drinking age-21, or when college is out of the way? At what year does she become responsible enough to responsibly chose to have what will grow to be a responsible child with her equally responsible SO?

When you decided to read and post on this thread, titled "IN SUPPORT OF YOUNGER MOTHERS", did you not realize that there would be mothers that may happen to have been younger than your ideal? (BTW-thank you for the hug and support celestial and greaseball)

Also, I am friends with several black women (all over the age of 25 BTW). Are they considered irresponsible because, as we all know, African Americans have a higher rate of low birth weight babies and premature deliveries? :angry Of course not. Because with proper nutrition, support and prenatal care, their children have a chance equal to that of their white counterparts.

[Greaseball]

I also do not think my unplanned pregnancy was a result of being irresponsible. I was not planning to have kids, but obviously a force greater than myself (for lack of a better term, I will call it gOD) was planning that I do so! Would anyone call gOD "irresponsible?"

:OT
I posted this somewhere else, but one inner-city hospital found that all the black babies were healthier than the white ones, despite the black mothers' lack of prenatal care. It was later discovered that during labor, when the black women asked for pain medication, they either did not receive it or they received much less than the white mothers.

Sometimes I think if I had another kid I would want that one unplanned as well, so I wouldn't have to go through the anxiety and waiting that people often do when they TTC. So I'm planning to have an unplanned pregnancy...how responsible is that?:)

[StarMama]

Eilonwy, I'd disagree with you about this:

They don't usually make the best decisions, period. The teenaged brain is not designed to make long term decisions.

I agree that most *adults* assume this about most teenagers. I personally could write you a book about being the housewife for my dad, doing the grocery shopping, balancing the checkbooks, moving out when 16 and working full time as well as going to school full time on the honor roll and making good decisions while I was a teenager. I could tell you about many many other people I know who made good decisions as teenagers as well. Yes there are teens who do badly, who make bad decisions, just like some adults. To *assume* that a teenager is most likely going to make bad decisions is a horrible thing. But its exactly that assumption that gains teen mothers all of the bad looks and comments they recieve. No one, of any age, deserves to *automatically* be looked down upon.

And Cookiemonstermommy I'm so sorry for all the negativity you get! I never meant to act like "thank god I'm NOT a teenaged mom" in my posts, I'm sorry if it came off that way.

[Greaseball]

Most of the stupid decisions I made were as an adult. I don't think it was because "the adult brain can't handle certain things." When I was 16, I had a full-time job and went to school and did really well. When I was 18, I was homeless, in an abusive relationship and addicted to heroin. Which would have been the better time for me to have a baby? (Thankfully it didn't happen either time.)

When adults screw up, no one blames their "underdeveloped adult brains" but when teens do, it's always blamed on their age and their physiology.

A woman's fertility starts to decline after age 15, according to some OBGYN. Could it be that although our society has decided that certain ages should not be reproducing, gOD has a different plan? When did it become shameful to have kids so young? It used to be people were married right out of high school, and in many places they still are. Now people are shamed for having babies in their early 20s, even if they are married.

I hear that in NYC, the stigma attached to having a baby in your 20s is the same as having a baby in your teens anywhere else.

[gurumama]

Brain,Child magazine has an awesome article on teen mothers in their Summer 2003 issue. The author explains that the myths about teen pregnancy and teen mothers are based on overgeneralization.

The single biggest predictor of poverty/neglect/problems for teen mothers is NOT being a teen; it's living in poverty or low-income BEFORE getting pregnant. In other words, like anything else, socioeconomic factors are stronger than anything else.

So teen motherhood doesn't CAUSE poverty/abuse/etc. Poverty/abuse/etc. + teen motherhood leads to more poverty/abuse, etc. (though, of course, there are exceptions).

My sister had her first at 19, second at 23, third at 27. She is an outstanding parent, and changed her major in college to Child Development so she could learn how to be an even better parents. Like any mother, she's made mistakes. I earned my Masters Degree at the same age she had her second child. I had my first at 28 and my second at 32. While our life experiences as mothers are vastly different, what is similar is that we love our children very, very much and admire each other as mothers.

And, probably, her great-grandchildren will have a firm memory of her as a vibrant person, while mine might not remember me :( .

eilonwy: I strongly recommend you read the Brain,Child article. It's very good.

[CookieMonsterMommy]

Guru, I'd REALLY like to see this article...what kind of Magazine is Brain,Child? What I mean is, is it a glossy, thicker, high budget, or one of the thinner, paper kind? Also, where in the magazine is the article located? Thank you so much!
Best Wishes, Mommas of All Ages!

[CK'sMama]

Hi fellow young mamas! Just thought I’d stop in with my story.

Lets see, I will be 20 in 1 month and I have a beautiful 16 month old DS. I don’t feel the need to explain myself or defend my decisions, but since some people have stereotyped us young mamas, maybe I can help change their minds about us.

I am not married nor do I ever plan to be, but I am in a long term committed relationship with *gasp* my baby’s daddy ;)

My son was VERY much planned, and I prepared ahead of time to be as healthy as possible before pregnancy. I didn’t smoke, drink, or do any drugs illegal or OTC. I ate right, took my vitamins, took great care of my body. I had a wonderful, uneventful pregnancy and gave birth to a healthy, 8.5lb baby boy the day before my due date, with no pain killers.

I breastfeed, cosleep, make educated decisions about his health and nutrition. I am not on welfare, I have plenty of money to provide him with everything he needs, healthy foods, clothing, and on top of all that I get to be a SAHM. I think that is pretty darn good for a teenage mom. However, if there had ever a thought in my mind that I wouldn’t be able to have all of this for my son, I would have NEVER gotten pregnant. Imagine that, a teenager who was able to plan long term. :rolleyes:

I don’t live in a fantasy world though. I realize that many young mothers are irresponsible, but I know plenty of 30 year old mothers who are just as bad. Having a child takes a lot of planning and work at any age. A young mother is just as capable of doing it as a 30 year old. Don’t fool yourself by thinking otherwise. It seems that there are MANY young or former young mothers here on MDC, which smashes the stereotype that we are all silly teens who are incapable of making major decisions, or raising our children well and being able to provide for them.

For me, there was never anything I wanted to be more than a mother and a homemaker. I wasn’t about to spend my childbearing years in college or working, doing something that I hate only to have complications or worse, not being able to get pregnant when I am older. I am young & healthy. I have very low risk of having a child with birth defects. My body is more capable of carrying a pregnancy to term and giving birth now than it will be in 15 years. I have plenty of energy to handle an active child. Plus my parents are young enough to watch their grandchid/ren grow up, which is extremely important.

Anyway, sorry that was so long :) I applaud all of us young and former young mamas for being such good parents. We are good parents, and we deserve a pat on the back for going against the statistics that tell us what kind of parents we are likely to be.

And for the older mamas, next time you see a young mama, don’t be so quick to judge. She may very well be a breastfeeding, Aping, well informed mamas, just like you!

[eilonwy]

Okay! :run

Before I begin to reply, I would like to apologize for the crankiness of my previous post. Celestial, you are absolutely right: that post did not belong on this thread. I was having a wretched day and allowed my anger with something entirely unrelated to spill over here.

Greaseball: I don't know where you live, but where I come from I frequently hear about irresponsible teen fathers and about little boys trying to make grown-up decisions. The Pennsylvania Fatherhood Initiative is all about teen fathers, and at my High School teen fathers were definately encouraged to take parenting classes.

I also never said that being an adult (rather, being of an age that is generally considered adult, i.e. 18) makes one a responsible parent. I only said that, in my experience and in my opinion most teens (not all) are not. And I never said that anyone deserves to be punished or riduculed just for being pregnant.

CookieMonsterMommy: #1 I agree that life experiences are of paramount importance to brain development. And I too know many irresponsible people in their 20's and even 30's & 40's. For some people, no amount of experience will be enough. By the time I was 6, I had had more "life experience" than most of the adults I have met. I don't think that meant that my brain was finished growing and changing. I remember things that seemed perfectly logical to me at 2, and 6, and 16, and now they don't seem that way. Why? Because my brain wasn't finished growing and changing. It is my understanding that the human brain is not fully developed for 20 years on average. This is not to say that all teenagers are irresponsible by virtue of physiology, or that all adults are responsible, but to state what I understand to be a fact.

#2 I am not referring to your choice to have a baby, I am referring to your choice to get pregnant in the first place.

#3 A dirty outfit from Gymboree is not any better than a clean outfit from Goodwill. When I see *any* child in dirty, ripped clothing, I do feel bad regardless of who their parents are. I grew up on welfare, and I didn't have expensive clothes. I was thrilled to get something from Goodwill that looked like it wasn't older than I was. But I went to school in clean clothing. The teen parents I have encountered (my sister included) seem to feel that having one outfit from Gap to wear to the mall over and over again is better than having 30 from Goodwill. I take issue with that.

#4 Good for you! My sister is not "with" her girls' father, but he still lives with them. And it's not the kids she's embarassed about; it's her mistakes. There's nothing embarassing about the girls; they're beautiful, happy children.

#5 I agree that teen moms are judged before they're given a chance, but I don't think that's why so many of their situations are sad. If that's the saddest thing about your life, then you should realize that you're much luckier than most teenagers who have babies.

#6 Lots of people get pregnant on the pill, or don't want their parents to find out they're having sex, or get pregnant the first time they're with a boy (have sex spontaneously). Most of the teenagers I know who became parents just thought it "couldn't happen to them".

What age do I think is "old enough"? When you're able to take care of yourself, and when your brain is ready to handle the responsibility. I don't think there's a number involved; it's different for everyone. Some people will never be ready. I take issue with the notion that sexual maturity=brain maturity=adulthood. I don't mean to say that it's impossible for anyone under 20 to be a good parent, only that *very rarely* will that situation be ideal.

I have no idea why you think I'm a racist, or even that I'm white; where did that come from? Not long ago, I read an article that theorized that the higher rates of infant and maternal mortality among black women are due not to socioeconomic factors, but to the medical community. I'll try to find it if you're interested.

Greaseball: I said that I think it is irresponsible to plan a pregnancy while you're still in high school. Accidents will happen, and I too believe that sometimes there is a greater force at work. I also believe that God helps those who help themselves.

When adults screw up, it is frequently touted as "lack of life experience" or "immaturity". At least, it is where I come from. For me, that translates to "an underdeveloped brain". When you were 16, you were doing very well; when you were 18 you weren't. Do you think that if you had been able to wait to have a full time job, perhaps things would have been easier for you to deal with later on? Did something happen to precipitate your situation at 18? I don't know the answers to these questions, because I don't know that much about you.

A woman's fertility starts to decline after age 15? This statement strikes me as absurd on the face of it, as the average woman in the United States is not sexually mature until 16. There is a stigma attached to having children in your 20's these days, but the pendulum is swinging the other way as research about (in)fertility comes to light. The stigma, however, is not that these women are not old enough to have children: it's that they haven't "finished college" or "established themselves in a career" the way women in the recent past have.

Gurumama: I will read the article as soon as I can find it. ;) I want to add that I knew several teenagers of middle/upper class backgrounds who became pregnant. Many of the ones who chose to keep their babies were kicked out of their homes. They became homeless as a direct result of being pregnant teens.

Lisa_Lynn: I agree. And I too have met people who made responsible decisions as teenagers. I apologize for the generalization.

CK'sMama: Teenagers are capable of being good parents, but I will not say that the situation is ideal. Ideally, I think that you should be capable of living on your own before bringing another life into the world. I have to add that I don't generally think of 18 and 19 year olds when I think of teen parents; I'm thinking of kids who are still in high school. I too would rather spend my most fertile years having children, and finish college later when my kids are out of the house (I intend to homeschool all of them). My family is not especially long-lived, and I'd like to have a chance to know my grandchildren. I didn't need to get pregnant at 14 to feel like I've got a good chance of doing that.

I'd like to add something else that's slightly :OT.

After I posted this, I realized that I'm still very angry with my sister, and that my anger with her has spread to encompass all teen mothers. Why am I so angry with her? Because her pregnancy made me suffer. Instead of buying things I needed like toothpaste and shampoo, my mother stole my money (literally) to buy maternity clothes for my sister. I was in college at the time and had to *beg* my mother to bring me some detergent to wash my clothes. Things I wanted were absolutely out of the question. This is all about problems with my family, and it has nothing to do with any other teen parent. It's just that the words always bring a picture of my sister to mind, and dredge up all kinds of yuckiness that would otherwise be left under a rock. I apologize for dragging you all into it. I know I need to deal with this.

[gurumama]

http://www.brainchildmag.com

[Celestial]

I don't know where you live, but where I come from I frequently hear about irresponsible teen fathers and about little boys trying to make grown-up decisions.
Yes, but the reality is, the blame generally tends to fall on the girl. One way or another, she takes the BULK of the responsibility, by default. And then add in the age old double standard re: sexuality "She should have kept her legs closed, the slut!"

I also never said that being an adult (rather, being of an age that is generally considered adult, i.e. 18) makes one a responsible parent.
But you do, further down in your post. See your points regarding brain development, financial status, etc.

It is my understanding that the human brain is not fully developed for 20 years on average.
Would like to see the source on this. One has to wonder about all of those thousands of years when "teen" women gave birth- even in the 20th century.

A dirty outfit from Gymboree is not any better than a clean outfit from Goodwill...I grew up on welfare, and I didn't have expensive clothes. I was thrilled to get something from Goodwill that looked like it wasn't older than I was.
Okay, but this is YOUR issue! How do you know these ladies didn't get the clothes as a gift? Or buy them second hand? How do you know what their circumstances are? Maybe they saved up for the kids clothes? Is this a judgement of all women, of any age, who buy their kids name brand clothes? Or just poor women? Or just teens? Or just poor teens? Would a poor 40 year old woman incur your same wrath?
Personally, my kids wear name brands(like Land's End, Gymboree, etc.)- because they were hand me downs, or I bought them used, at the thrift store, the garage sale, on eBay, or I bought them new but on clearance, or as seconds... Name brand clothes tend to be better quality- at least the brands I buy. And I buy LESS of them than I do other clothes, because they hold up better!!! Plus, less clothing, means less laundry! :) But you see, you aren't in my household. You don't know my circumstances, so who are you to judge?

I agree that teen moms are judged before they're given a chance, but I don't think that's why so many of their situations are sad.
You have NO idea what it is like to be a teen mom, having never been one. You have NO concept of how degrading and contemptously people treat you. Want to talk to my husband about being denied entrance into the US room when I was bleeding while pregnant with our son? After the doctor made some derogatory comments because he caught my then future DH holding me and kissing me while I cried? Want to talk about the parents whose kids were no longer allowed to talk to me, because I was pregnant? eilonwy, you REALLY do not want to get me started on this!!!

Most of the teenagers I know who became parents just thought it "couldn't happen to them".
Yeah, and how many adults does this happen to? How many are lax with the birth control? And what about those teens that the birth control fails? What about them? Come on. This is an oversimplification.


I don't think there's a number involved; it's different for everyone. Some people will never be ready. I take issue with the notion that sexual maturity=brain maturity=adulthood. I don't mean to say that it's impossible for anyone under 20 to be a good parent, only that *very rarely* will that situation be ideal.
I think to just say it is "brain development" is a total oversimplification. After all, since the dawn of time, young women have gotten pregnant and given birth- healthily, and successfully. So what's changed? I highly doubt the age of "full brain development" has changed that rapidly. So there MUST be other factors that effect parental success (however the hell you define THAT!!!).

I read an article that theorized that the higher rates of infant and maternal mortality among black women are due not to socioeconomic factors, but to the medical community.
Oh!!! So here we have another non- "brain development" factor that influences parenting.

as the average woman in the United States is not sexually mature until 16.
First, average implies that SOME women will mature at a younger age, and others at a later age. I would asume it would be the same for "brain development"? If so, what purpose would it serve in nature if sexual maturity occurs at 14, and "full brain development" occurs at 22? So, other than current socio-economic conditions (which are transient), and social expectations, and this elusive "brain development factor which varies from person to person, there's no problem with teen/young moms?

[Celestial]

Continuing....
I also believe that God helps those who help themselves.
Oh yeah! Can you clarify this statement in the context of this thread? Are you implying that all teen moms are mooching off others? There are no adults that need "help"? Or is it that any people that need "help" shouldn't have any kids? How much "help" is too much? And how do you determine that someone is helping themself "enough" and is worthy of outside "help"? Or is there never a time, as an adult, when you should need or expect help?

Many of the ones who chose to keep their babies were kicked out of their homes. They became homeless as a direct result of being pregnant teens.
but it's all about brain development, right? Isn't that your primary arguement? If, social prejudices are at play, wouldn't you agree that changing how people treat these young women would boost positive parenting outcomes?

Ideally, I think that you should be capable of living on your own before bringing another life into the world.
Okay, and what does THIS constitute? I have a friend that is my age, working for IBM, making a load of money, that has lived at home up until now because she couldn't afford to buy. This a REALITY in some areas of the country. Does that mean most people who live pay check to paycheck on the east coast shouldn't have kids? What does it mean to be "capable" of living on your own? And also, can we talk about traditional, non-nuclear families where multi-generations all lived in and contributed to the house? How does the above apply to them? I think you have a western, nuclear family prejudice. That gets in the way of reality.

After I posted this, I realized that I'm still very angry with my sister, and that my anger with her has spread to encompass all teen mothers. Why am I so angry with her? Because her pregnancy made me suffer. Instead of buying things I needed like toothpaste and shampoo, my mother stole my money (literally) to buy maternity clothes for my sister. I was in college at the time and had to *beg* my mother to bring me some detergent to wash my clothes. Things I wanted were absolutely out of the question. This is all about problems with my family, and it has nothing to do with any other teen parent. It's just that the words always bring a picture of my sister to mind, and dredge up all kinds of yuckiness that would otherwise be left under a rock. I apologize for dragging you all into it. I know I need to deal with this

So your needs should have taken precedence? Why? I guess because you were mom's daughter, and she HAS an obligation to take care of you? Were you 18 or over as a college student? You expected mom to "help you out, even after, I assume, you were legally "of age", but when she helped your "under age" sister out, it was wrong? I'm not getting that. Isn't her obligation to the health and care of any of her "underage" children? Your mom stole your money once? Or all of the time? Either way, it's wrong, but it was your MOM's decision, NOT your sister's. So the issue here should be with your MOM'S poor judgement. There were probably other ways to get your sister's maternity clothes. Your sister didn't make her do it. Your mom CHOSE to do it.

I'm VERY frustrated by your age prejudices. And there are some other things you've said (regarding money, responsibility etc.) that really bother me as well.

eilonwy, it may not feel like it right now, but I really like you. I enjoy reading (most) of your posts. But your personal biases are really getting in the way, and becoming sheer, out right prejudices. And this was not the place to air them.

My brain is fried. It's been a LONG day here (Our Back to No School homeschool picnic), and I need to get back to my kids!

[lunar forest]

Being very young means problems are more likely to occur; that's a fact. Actually, eilonwy, that's not at all a fact. It is true that in this society "young" people are encouraged to act like children, and hardly even allowd to act like mature adults. That has a great effect on how "teen" mothers will act, thus causing these problems you talked about, but it really has nothing to do with age, but maturety. I just resently read a study showing that women from the begining of reproductive age through about 16 (I think, maybe it was 15, or maybe older) were physically in the best shape to have children. The study sugested that this is the time that nature intended us to be begining families and give birth - not waiting. I'm kicking myself that I didn't save it somewhere!!The teenaged brain is not designed to make long term decisions. You may not be saying this with the purpose of being mean, but this is also just not true. This is the kind of uneducated and/or misinformed statment that really irks me! I've heard this many times, but studies show that this, also, is quite the opposite of the truth. I guess some people just want to feel that they are smater/better/more capable of things than others simply because they have lived longer. :rolleyes: which makes perfect sense to me - lol!

No one will argue with you that there are idiots out there making stupid choices and/or mistakes at any age, especially when that is expected and encouraged in them. Does that mean that all people are this way, or that all people that you can put a lable on are this way?

Oh yeah, and well said Greaseball, as usual!
I also do not think my unplanned pregnancy was a result of being irresponsible. I was not planning to have kids, but obviously a force greater than myself (for lack of a better term, I will call it gOD) was planning that I do so! Would anyone call gOD "irresponsible?" I feel the same way. Perhaps 'GOD' (or what have you - no need to offend :wink ) was irresponsable, and it is up to us to "choose" are child away? That's what's been recommended to me. Other than my Aunt who wanted to adopt my child, as if SHE was a better mother than ME! She's a full time working mother of two, single and looking, clubing "irresponsable" women - I am a sahm, married (not when she offered, but certainly life parteners) AP, etc.
I guess I made the wrong choice?

CookieMonsterMommy, also good points and well made!

[lunar forest]

I also wanted to say something about this hogwash about brain development, but it's getting me too upset and I don't want to be nasty. I'll just say that this is one of those misinformed ideas that "well meaning" people like to spread around. I'm sure everyone who says this believes it, but there is no solid evidence to back this, however there is much proof in studies, etc. to the contrary which is simply disregarded because it doesn't fit what this society wants to believe.

I'm sorry that you know so many irresponsable teen parents. I know some as well, and like many others, I know loads of irresponsable "adults," too. Responsablety has nothing to do with age. Even VERY young women can be great mothers. It may not always be ideal (or your idea of what is reasonable,) but that doesn't make it bad. There's a reason babies can be had young.

[Celestial]

Oh. P.S
I think there is something for life experiences, and "maturity" that comes from it. These can be fantastic, and helpful things. But would that mean we should wait until we are 60 to give birth?

Also, don't forget that at EVERY age, there is a give and take. So, hypothetically, a young mom might make a "poor" decision, because of her lack of experience, but she might be more able to relate to her child's emotions. And, hypothetically, an older mother might tend to make "safer" decsions, but also might be very "set in her ways" and inflexible.

And let's not forget, while a young mom's brain might not be at optimal "maturity", as a woman ages, her brain is already in decline.

Woops! There goes another brain cell!

[Greaseball]

I don't think one has to be self-supporting to have a child; I think they should be committed to giving that child all the love they deserve, even if they do have to rely on outside help. I don't think I'm not supposed to be a parent simply because I rely on the government for health insurance. In fact, we're planning to TTC soon!

I know of several programs for young fathers, but the difference is when people think of a teen father, they often think about how it's so great he's going to be involved with his baby, and with the mother they go on and on about how she has no right to be a mom. The same is true of "welfare fathers" - they do exist, yet how often does one hear them vilified?

[phathui5]

I had my first ds at 16 (casually planned) and this dd at 19 (planned down to "I'm ovulating today"). I'm married and my 23 year old dh works full-time so that I can be home with our kids. We breastfeed, tandem nurse, co-sleep, selectively vax, are vegan, etc. I get the "you're too young to have kids," depending on where I go. Not so much at LLL and the health food store, sometimes at the library or other "normal" places.

I'm also a breastfeeding counselor for the WIC program. I do see irresponsible teen parents. I also see (amazing!) a ton of irresponsible older parents. The difference at WIC is that the teen parents are usually more open to advice about breastfeeding, parenting and baby care. They are willing to try different things. Whereas the older parents are set in their ways and will tell me that they didn't nurse their older ones and don't see why they would nurse their coming baby, or stuff like that.

[eilonwy]

look, i'm happy for you all. i'm glad that you're good parents and that you're happy with your lives. what i'm trying to say (and apparently not getting across at all) is that as far as i can tell, you are in the minority. all of you who have responded to my post make up a bit less than 2% of teen parents i've encountered. that leads me to a total of about 5% who are happy with their lives. (i am speaking from my own experience here. i realize that i don't know everyone in the world, and that i don't know their situations. i certainly never meant to imply that i did!)

eta: i notice that no one felt a need to comment on points i conceded; are you just trying to tell me that i'm flat out wrong about everything? if that's the case, we're going to have to agree to disagree, again because i speak from my experience. it's not hypothetical for me. i've known these girls, boys, and their children. i'm not making this up.

[eilonwy]

Originally posted by Celestial

So your needs should have taken precedence? Why? I guess because you were mom's daughter, and she HAS an obligation to take care of you? Were you 18 or over as a college student? You expected mom to "help you out, even after, I assume, you were legally "of age", but when she helped your "under age" sister out, it was wrong? I'm not getting that. Isn't her obligation to the health and care of any of her "underage" children? Your mom stole your money once? Or all of the time? Either way, it's wrong, but it was your MOM's decision, NOT your sister's. So the issue here should be with your MOM'S poor judgement. There were probably other ways to get your sister's maternity clothes. Your sister didn't make her do it. Your mom CHOSE to do it.



why should my needs have taken precedence? because I worked for MY money, that's why. my mother had no right to take it. she did NOTHING for it. i never said my mother had an obligation to take care of me; only that i wanted back what she stole from me. and it was more than once; she stole all but one of my paychecks to buy things for my sister. and yes, it WAS my sister's decision. she KNEW that my mother was stealing my money to buy her things, and she encouraged it. yes, my mother could have chosen otherwise, but she never would have and my sister knew this as well.

the points in sharing this story were: 1) my sister is not the only teen parent i have met who made VERY SELFISH decisions, without regard for the suffering that they might cause to others and 2) that i am not perfect and allowed some of my anger with my sister to cloud my judgement. your anger with me seems misdirected, as it does not recognize either of these points.

[Celestial]

your anger with me seems misdirected, as it does not recognize either of these points.

Misdirected? Eilonwy, you came on a SUPPORT thread (note the title), and dumped your personal baggage.

THIS IS NOT THE THREAD FOR IT!

Want to discuss what selfish, lazy, irresponsible people teen moms are? Take it to TAO. Take it to Activism.
Want to discuss your personal issues with teen moms? Take it to Personal Growth.

But don't come here and air your dirty laundry please. This thread is for finding your tribe, and it is pretty obvious that you do not want to be, are not a part of our tribe! In fact, you have spent your entire time here dissing us.

Would you think it was okay for someone to make the same comments on a thread for POC, or a specific religious group?

You are prejudiced.
Insert another group in where you said "teen parent" or "teen mom", and see it for yourself!

I am here "supporting" and "defending" my tribe. This is our "safe space". And you have invaded it.

[lunar forest]

you are in the minority.
Obviously you've also neglected to read the thread before posting your assumptions about us. We are well aware that many young mother are not great. We are also aware (from personal experience) that because young mothers have not always been societies ideas of "good mothers" (be it actually neglecting their children, or just not what people want, or expect of them,) that people assume because you are young you must be a "bad" mother. We would like to educate people (like you) who have seen things first hand, or those that just make assumptions about us.

Your sister sound very much like MANY "responsible adult" parents that I know. People tend to keep their nose out of these people's lives because it's "none of their business," "They're adults, they can make their own choices," "It's their lives, they can do what they want with them," "it's their children, so it's their choice." These are all things that I have heard within the last year pertaining to people who openly abuse and neglect (of course they don't use those words) their children. I'm told I should not say anything to them, and certainly not say anything to anyone else because it's none of my business. All of the people who have said these things to me (and the people they said them about) have, and continue to tell me what to do with my life and my children.
Does this really make sense?
Anyone who now agrees with me about this family I have had to convince there was a problem, and that they should do something about it. Yet no one hesitates to tell me what I'm doing wrong, and never question that they might be out of line to tell me how to run my life.

People have preconceived ideas about younger mothers, yourself included, whether they have seen things first hand or not they should be educated that there are good mothers that are young - a hell of a lot more than are given credit! Many young mothers are a lot better than people think because they just write them off without giving them a chance.

As was said by Celestial, you are prejudiced, and you should take a good hard look at yourself before you start going off on people again.

[sonya_mamafor4]

I have always known that I wanted to be a wife and mother and I always knew that I would be at a young age.(Even though at the time I was thinking 22 not 18):) But things work out and my kids are my life!I do plan on working and spendng more time doing things that I want to do when the kids are older. I believe that in the end your children are all that really count in this world.And the best at being able to say what kind of person you were.:love
Sonya

[eilonwy]

Okay, last post.

I already apologized for posting where I did; I know that it didn't belong there. The reason I "went off" in the first place was CookieMonsterMamma's ascertation that people who are very quick to jump up and say "I'm not a teen mother, I just look like one" are doing it to be cruel and selfish. I took offense to that statement, because I am frequently treated like a (young) teen parent when I'm out in public with my son. (Though not so often now that school has started again; only by cops asking for my ID because they think I'm truant. :rollseyes: ). I *always* respond that I'm not a teenager because yes, I am offended that people think I am. I outlined the reasons for that in my OP.

I did read the thread (a long time ago, actually) and I'm very impressed with you ladies for the most part. It's very cool that you're actually parenting your kids, to say nothing of parenting them AP-style. I'm sorry that I come off sounding so prejudiced; I don't see it that way. If, for example, every time you saw a tree it was an evergreen, and while you'd seen many kinds of evergreens, you'd never seen a deciduous tree in your life, wouldn't you be a little surprised learn that a maple was also a tree? Might you even question whether it was actually a tree at all? And wouldn't you be a little confused about it? (Where were all those "trees" when you were in the forest?)

People (all of them) make judgements based on their experiences. Sometimes those experiences are quite limited, and sometimes they are very broad. In general, I'd like to think that my own experiences fall into the latter category, but many of you would disagree. That's perfectly fair, and I'm okay with that. My definition of prejudice is "passing judgement on a group of people with little or no experience/knowledge of that group". I don't think that my understanding of teen parenthood falls under that definition; I have encountered wonderful, loving teen parents; just very few of them. Not enough to change my overall opinion that it's not an ideal situation.

Honestly, I hope there are more of you out there. I met a woman who had her first child at 17; that child is now 11 and has 2 younger siblings. They're all doing very well. It's a good thing. It gives me hope for my neices' futures. Maybe they'll be all right, and maybe my sister won't be a grandmother before she hits 30. I'd really like to hope so. So please, please ladies; prove me wrong.

[CookieMonsterMommy]

Hi Sonya! I'm Kelly and I also have a child (ds) age 4 and a half (I'm a little younger than you though). Just wanted to say a quick hi and hello to you. Unfortunately you walked in on a nasty little misunderstanding (I hope)-I'm sure you read back a few posts and know what I'm talking about. Anyway, best of luck, and hope to be seeing you around the MDC!
Best Wishes!

[Justice2]

Originally posted by Sativarain1
I am glad I chose to have them young, just recently I was told I have some pre cancerous cells in my cervix, and have to have surgery, one of the outcomes of the surgery is my cervix might not close so no more children, I feel thankful that God allowed me to have them young..

thanks for letting me share! =)
Valerie

:OT

Valerie...I also had cancerous cells on my cervix...had a LEEP in 1997, now have a short cervix. I just recently had my 2nd child. Pregnancy was pretty difficult with labor stating at 25 weeks, but was able to hold onto him until 36 weeks. It was recommended to me that I not try to have anymore babies after my surgery but I am so glad I did and will have as many more as God and my body will allow me to have until I hit 30!

Now back to the regularly scheduled thread

My first child was born when I was 19. I got things like...."your still a kid yourself" my response was "Good, then we shall have everything in common!" I lost another pregnancy a year later and then proceeded to go through years of infertility. Now I have a wonderful little boy (at 27) and want 2 more before I am 30. I really DON'T want to have any children after I am 30. My pregnancies are going to increase in risk with each one and with every year.

I don't think that any woman should have to explain herself or her reasons for having a baby early. My first pregnancy was an accident, the greatest one that I ever had!

[lunar forest]

eilonwy, next time you come to a support thread to debate the validety of someone's choices, please do a little research before you get into it. You may have a great deal of life experiences, but you don't know the facts. You are very ignorant/uneducated about this subject, and if you knew that facts about it you would see how silly you look trying to make these points.
Good bye.

sonya_mamafor4 - welcome and nice to meet you! Have you read the artical in the link posted in the OP? I think you'll find it very interesting, informative and encouraging!

[lunar forest]

"your still a kid yourself" my response was "Good, then we shall have everything in common!" That is always my favorite one, and I've used that response, too! Itr shuts 'em up! I really want to educate people that being a young mother doesn't mean that you are irresponsable. I've notice a recent trend in my area. There have been a lot more younger mothers, and the ones I know are really great. They are all AP, co-sleep, CD, breastfeed, and many of them HB! It's so exciting to see this! It really is educating people in our area because none of us hesitate to speak up and tell them how we feel about parenting!

[Justice2]

I forgot to add that I got TONS of bad looks for being a teenage mother with a preterm infant. My dd was 8 weeks early and surely I must have been a statistic...see, this is what happens when you have babies as a teenage . The only problem with that judgment is that ALL of my babies are going to be (and have previously been) preterm. When my dd was born, my doc explained to me that I CANNOT carry a baby to term. When I got preggo with ds, they told me that I would be delivering preterm (in all likelyhood). Now, I will never know if that first doc was correct and my body simply cannot handle carrying a child OR if my surgery to remove most of my cervix is what caused preterm labor and delviery of my second child. I do know that I was an incredibly healthy woman during my pregnancy of my daughter (with the exception of morning sickness). When I couldn't take maternity vitamens, I took otc vitamens. I ate healthy (when I could eat :wink) and drank plenty of fluids AND STILL DELIVERED a 3 lb baby 8 weeks before she was supposed to come into this world. Would I have carried longer had I been 30...maybe, but odds are very against it.

[Greaseball]

I don't think it's our job to prove ourselves to anyone, especially since every parenting choice a teen/young mom makes will be seen as wrong. If we stay home with our kids, we're lazy. If we put them in daycare so we can work, we're neglectful. We've seen how we can be judged when we dress our kids in nice clothes, but of course if we dress them in inexpensive clothes we are "messy." AP parenting choices like breastfeeding, home birth, cloth diapering, co-sleeping, nonvaxing and homeschooling are also seen as something wrong when they are done by teens.

[CookieMonsterMommy]

You know what though? So the hell what if others think we're lazy, dirty, slutty, irresponsible, stupid, whatever. Right now I'm at a place in my life where I'm just like "F--- em!" I know that I'm a good mother, I know what my motivations/intentions were when I had him,I know I've made my decisions regarding parenting holding himin regards before myself or my SO, I know that my brain is fully developed (lol), and I know that my being young hasn't hurt ot damaged my son-if anything it's been a benefit for him. And you know what??

ALL OF YOU WONDERFUL APing, BFing, CSing, CDing, HSing, etc MOMMAS OUT THERE-YOUNG OR OLD-SHOULD KNOW THIS ABOUT YOURSELVES TOO!

:soapbox

I know it gets hard sometimes and we lose track of how we feel, who we are, and what we did to get here...insults and attacks directed towards us and our families can definately put us on the defense and sometimes even make us question ourselves and each other....but when we start to let our value as mothers be determined by what others (be they the minority or majority of society)-THAT'S when our children-and ourselves-begin to suffer.

Thank you! I'll be here all week! Be sure to tip your waitress!

[CookieMonsterMommy]

BTW-Obviously I don't mean to let "them" go on thinking the way they do...when you can, correct and inform them (or at least try to refrain from cursing them out-lol).
Just don't let their prejudices and ignorance get to you or make you feel negative.

:love :p :love :p

[CK'sMama]

You know what is the worst for me? I have had a couple of people assume that the only reason I co-sleep is because I can’t afford a crib, or breastfeed because I can't afford the expensive formula, because I’m young of course :rolleyes: Grrr...


Not to be a b**** or anything, but I think a lot of the attitude I have gotten from some older women is because they can’t handle the fact that I am more responsible than they are, and make better parenting decisions than they do/did, and it kills them!!

[lunar forest]

CookieMonsterMommy - you are so right! I'm kind of in that "F'em" place right now, too. DH thinks it's so amusing because he's been that way all along, and is always telling me to calm down and let it go. He's right, that's all you can do (and stand up for yourself now and then.)

Just feel good about yourself!

CK'sMama - I know what you mean, and it's so true!

[MissinNYC]

I am a young mama- I am nineteen and my daughter is 13 months old. She was not planned and we were not married when she was concieved (got married when I was 4 months pg). I hate all the looks and shameful glances. I always wished when I was pg that when I told someone I was pg, they would say, "congratulations" instead of shaking their heads and crying. It shocks me that people still judge me. I would understand their judgement if I was a bad mom or became destitute or whatever, but my husband and I are both attending an Ivy League school full time, he works during the summer, and we are living in a beautiful apartment. I BF, cloth diaper, and selectively vax. I wish people thought my decisions were based on information, not stupidity and lack of info. I did not just let my life happen to me, I stood up for what I believed in (not abortion) and made the choice to keep my daughter, withstood all the crap and criticism, and am applying myself 110% in going to school, learning how to parent intelligently, and being a good mom.
I get so mad when girls I see on campus look at me, thinking that I am pathetic or "loose." I had sex with one guy, but my friends had sex with 5-20 a year. Yet because I got pg, I am the slut? Many people I know had abortions, and if they had not, they would be in my position. They have no moral highground, but they judge me.
The thing that gets me the most, however, is how people see my relationshiop with DH. They assume we don't "really" love eachother; that we are forced to be married and that we do not have a loving, close, mature bond. I KNOW I am a better mother and wife than many of the people shaking their heads at me.
Even my mom is against me- she wanted me to have an abortion the whole time- even when I was already married and I was 6 months pg. I told her no, and every day was hell, as she pressured me and made me sad and uncomfortable.
Thanks for letting me vent. -Sarah

[lunar forest]

They assume we don't "really" love eachother; that we are forced to be married and that we do not have a loving, close, mature bond. I can completely relate to this! Even people who know us, know that we were together for three years before ds was born (and once before that - he was my first boy friend :love) and that we were, and obviously still are crazy in love (lol - note baby #2 on the way.)
Dh is the only man I have ever made love to (and he I) but somehow I am the slut? This makes no sense!

I'm sick of feeling like a have to prove it. Who cares whether they believe me or not, if they'd get to know me they'd know. What's mots important is that I know!

People love to make it out like everyone who gets married/involved young never lasts. Like you don't have the brain development to make long term descions (where have we heard that before?) I met dh when I was 12, pre- pupberty (he was 16) and I was honestly in love with him ever since, and he I. "Puppy love" my ass! How insulting can people be? I guess we'll just continue to find out. :wink

[CookieMonsterMommy]

lol, My bf and I were actually engaged and were gonna kind of elope when I turned 16, but by then I was pregnant and we decided to wait. I didn't want every one to automatically assume that we were marrying because he "knocked me up" and all that garbage (even if that were the reason-WTF do they care?).

Well, it was good we called it off for a while because we realized that we weren't really ready for the type of marriage we both deserved. And we are definately still together and very much committed to each other-just no legalities involved.

-BUT-

It also kinda sucked because in a big way we were letting others influence us too much. And BTW-we're STILL not married... sigh
But that's a whole other post all together. :rolleyes:

::talking to self:: It'll happen...it'll happen...be patient

lol-It's late, I'm tired, I have work tomorrow and am becoming overly emotional for no reason. Can anyone say "St. John's Wart"? :nod

Best Wishes all....I must now go rest my underdeveloped, immature, and obviously welfare dependant brain. Goodnight!

[CookieMonsterMommy]

Arrrggg....! :angry

Today was the 1st time I got the "are you his sister?" question. I was at the library with my son and the craft lady asked me that. Okay, I though, smiling. No biggie. But then when I told her, no I was his mother, she gets an alomost horrified look and gasps (literally gasps!) and says "That's impossible! You can't be a day over 20!" (ds is 4). I swear-it took everything in me to smile sweetly and say "Well, that's because I am 20". I got back a shocked, embarassed "Oh, well, uh...I...That's great!" The lady next to me rolled her eyes at her and gave me an empathetic look. Later when the craft lady said she had 22 and a 24 year old children I said loud enough for those around me to hear "That's imposible....she doesn't look a day under 60!" (no offence to those mothers who had children later in life...I just had to be mean for a minute) and the eye roller laughed.

:rolleyes:

Best Wishes, Mamas of All Ages!

Kelly

[Greaseball]

:thumb

:OT
This other former teen parent once told me of this time she went to a county fair or something and there was a sign on the play area that all children must be supervised by parents. There was another sign saying, "All parents must be over 21." This woman was 20, and her son was 4. And this was not any kind of alcohol-related event! Sounds, to me, like someone's personal feelings about parents under 21.:(

[Celestial]

Check this out!!!

http://mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91354

http://www.empowerteenparents.org

http://www.girlmom.com/

[Lucysmama]

HI! I got pg with my first dd when I was 19 and had her when I was 20. I am now pg again and due at 23.

I have been reading this thread and I am shocked at some of the negative statements being made here about younger mamas. What particularly struck me was, "YOU ALL ARE IN THE MINORITY." and "IT'S COOL THAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY PARENTING YOUR KIDS."

:eek WOW! What terrible things to say! As far as the "in the minority" comment, I would venture to say that AP mamas in general are in the minority here in the USA. Recently I witnessed two very awful incidents of child abuse at my local playground. Both parents were perhaps 30-35. I wouldn't dare say that because of that limited objectivity, MOST 30-35 year old mamas abuse their kids, or are irresponsible in some way.

And the second comment: "It's cool you are actually parenting your kids!" is offensive on many levels to me. As a young married mama who planned her pregnancies, I am appalled that someone would be surprised that I would "parent" my children. Of course I am! They are my children!

Dh and I have our reasons for conceiving when we did, and we should not be subject to such stereotypes that Eilonwy suggests.

I understand you have issues with your sister, and admit you should not have posted your OR, but then why spend 3 addition posts defending your (biased and untrue) statements on this support thread? Would you, eilonwy, go to the EBF support thread and tell those mamas negative things about breastfeeding their 2 year olds? I would hope not!

I know 2 other AP SAHM who are under 25. We are all married, happy, financially secure, intelligent mothers. Dh and I have numerous investments, and we live off of the interest, so we are both SAHParents. We co sleep, CD, don't have a TV, eat organically, buy our clothes from Gymboree and Hanna - not so we can show off our daughter like you suggest, but because good quality clothes last longer, have a great resale value, and I like them. And guess what - dd still has diapers!!!! :eek

I know you said you posted your last post, but I want you to hear from another mama who objects to your attempts to perpetuate negative stereotypes.

[Greaseball]

What I really like is on that Empower Teen Parents site it said that teenage parenthood is not something that can be stamped out - teenagers always have been and always will be parents, and that they should be supported and respected.

For the record, it's great there are so many young married moms here who are financially stable and planned their babies, but even if this were not the case, I still say that's OK. If you are a single young mother who has no money and has 4 kids and is pregnant again and who didn't plan the baby, I still think it's awesome that you are going to have a baby and you have just as much of a right as anyone else to have children.

[Lucysmama]

Originally posted by Greaseball


For the record, it's great there are so many young married moms here who are financially stable and planned their babies, but even if this were not the case, I still say that's OK. If you are a single young mother who has no money and has 4 kids and is pregnant again and who didn't plan the baby, I still think it's awesome that you are going to have a baby and you have just as much of a right as anyone else to have children.

ITA, I just wanted to provide examples of how many people live outside the stereotype of teen/young moms. Any child should be celebrated and loved, and *all* parents deserve respect, help, and nurturing by their friends, family, and community.