All mamas are working mamas

[veganmamma]

NO fighting ladies!!
Okay, so does anyone else find the name of this forum divisive? All mamas are working mamas, and I think that this forum name implies SAHMs are not working when really they are just doing unpaid work. I'm a WAHM, but I really think that title applies to all moms. All moms work in the home. You could say that all of MDC is a working mamas forum. Can we change the name to something else? Any ideas ladies (and gents)?
Maybe have a WOHM forum and a forum for mamas with home businesses? Help me out here.

Also, did someone really imply that their brain cells would die if they were a SAHM? I have to say that mentality has been oppressing women for centuries now, can we stop the fighting, please? Can't we all just get along? And respect the work that each of us do? Many SAHMs already feel unappreciated because they are unpaid, (not all, some) so it would be nice if everyone could take into account that women currently do 70% of the work in this world and only recieve 10% of the pay. That means men work 30% and get 90% of the money.

Lauren

[BathrobeGoddess]

I disagree. I think the title WAHM and WOHM implies that the mom is doing something else besides caring for their home and family. I don't find it punitive to SAHM to have a term for mothers who have work not realated to the family going on. I also believe that this is the same forum for mothers to express their feelings about working. So what if one mama feels like brain cells would die if she was a SAHM? Why is that threatening to SAHMs? It isn't like she said all SAHM are brain dead. She was talking about herself and her needs.

[Chelly2003]

I agree with Bathrobegoddess. Mothers who work outside the home (like myself) face a completely different set of challenges, from getting everyone out the house in the morning, to sick time, to a boss that is good or bad, when to take maternity leave, what to do about pumping at work etc...... A stay at home mother, probably doesn't face these same challenges in her day to day life.

Perhaps the name of the forum should be Working Out of the home moms - WOHM?

Chelly

[buttercup]

I agree w/ the previous posts. Mothers working outside of the home or at home need a board where they can share experiences specifically related to parenting and working. I think everyone here has a great amount of respect for SAHM and many of us prefer to work or have to work. Either way, we can share our experiences right here.

W/ regards to WOHM and mommas working at home, I think the moderator had asked if it was okay that these two be combined into this board for the time being. No one seemed to object at the time. If there are a lot of mommas working at home who feel they need a separate board, then you ought to e-mail the moderator on how this can be done. I prefer to have the two combined because I learn a lot from the mommas who work at home.

Jenni

[whateverdidiwants]

I agree with the above posters. There are certain things that sahms or wahms just don't deal with that wohms do, and personally, I like to have a space where I can trade ideas/experiences. For example, my dd's birthday is this week and because I was sick last week and had to take off work to take care of myself, I have to send dd to daycare on her birthday so I can get caught up again. It breaks my heart, but I just don't have the time built up to take off another day so soon. IMO, only another wohm can truly understand what I feel like in this situation.

[Lucky Charm]

I agree w/ the previous posts. Mothers working outside of the home or at home need a board where they can share experiences specifically related to parenting and working.
:nod :nod :nod :nod

WOHM & WAHM need a place where they can come share experiences, frustrations and issues that are unique to women who can truely understand where they are coming from. i know i do. where they can get support and understanding, where no other working mom will bash them, tell them they are committing child abuse for wohm. some of the other threads require a flame retardent suit. and i think the title of this forum is fine, and do not find it divisive at all.

of course all mothers "work"....but sahm do not have 10 balls in the air, do not have the same issues that we do. i do all that a stay at home mom does.....take care of my kids, husband, house, laundry, getting up 20 times a night, grocery shop, take kids to school, ballet soccer, pick up dry cleaning, prescriptions, pay bills, help with homework, volunteer at school, carpool, bake cookies, do crafty things for school projects, go to the library....then i get to leave my home and do a jaw crsuhingly stressful job 24 hours a week working in a emergency room taking care of other people and their critically ill children. so no, i dont think we are the same in that way.

can we stop the fighting, please? Can't we all just get along? And respect the work that each of us do?
when i dont have to be on the defense for working. its ridiculous. as far as brain cells dying, i have had people who were on welfare bash me for working for the very same benfits that are given to them...then claim they have a masters or Ph.d, and are more "committed" and "devoted" than I.

[Liz]

In a tiny tiny voice so as not to incur the wrath of anybody:

Please don't exclude WAHMs. I work at home full time and my son is in fulltime daycare so I share most issues with WOHMs.

[darlindeliasmom]

Hey, I didn't realize that wahm moms were included in this board, since I DO see many of the problems that WOHM moms have as not being on my radar. But a mom like Liz does face the same issues...all that icky stuff about what to do with a sick kid and that sad :( experience whateverdidiwants had with her dear's birthday.

So I guess we can't generalize. I DO think that irt's nice to have a forum for moms who share the same experience to share issues about pumping (great thread on that last week or so) and about dealing with a$$hole attitiudes by co-workers.

That said, I am glad to know that wahm moms are represented here. I have never had to get a non-family babysitter for DD, and have not had to pump, but yes, I deal with unrealistic clients all the time, who just don't get that having a 5-yr-old with a 103 fever and a messy stomach virus will cut into my productivity. And the at-home stuff is the same. How to get shopping, meals etc. done while a)enjoying time with my kid and b) getting my work done.

oh, yeah, and all mothers ARE working mothers. We just have different experiences, and like to hash them out without being sidetracked by defending our choices.

[Very Snoofly]

Okay, so does anyone else find the name of this forum divisive? All mamas are working mamas, and I think that this forum name implies SAHMs are not working when really they are just doing unpaid work.

I think it's a matter of what you choose to be offended by. I might choose to be offended by being called a WOHM. Yes, I work outside the home. But then again I also work when I'm AT home. So I'm really a WOH&AHM.

Labels are always going to be limiting. I think most people assume that "Working Mamas" means moms who perform some kind of job for pay in addition to raising children. This doesn't necessarily mean they believe that staying at home with children is not work.

What would be an alternative title? "Gainfully Employed Mamas"? "Paycheck Mamas"? "Blessed and tired mamas who are tired and blessed for both the same and different reasons as their tired and blessed counterparts who stay at home"?

Actually I think this very matter was discussed in the introductory thread in this forum, and "Working Mamas" was deemed an appropriate title.

[chellemarie]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought one purpose of having a separate board for WAHM/WOHMs was to avoid this discussion altogether.

I'm a working mother. That means I am away from my children most or part of the day in order to support us financially. I have different obstacles to overcome in my day than a mother who does not support her family financially. In no way does this mean I believe my challenges or obstacles are more valid or meaningful. They are what they are.

I'm one of those WOHMs who would love to be at home with my children more. Unfortunately my sisters of two decades ago felt the urge to step out of their homes for a few hours a day to earn some bucks. They pushed themselves into a working world and now I'm stuck here. I resent it. I also resent having to defend myself and rehash this issue time and time again.

I think the most important thing is this: All the mammas here (and elsewhere, too) are darn smart. When we say "working mother", you know what we mean.

[Lucky Charm]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought one purpose of having a separate board for WAHM/WOHMs was to avoid this discussion altogether.
Chelle, i thought so too, as was suprised by the post. after i posted, i left to run errands and pick up my son from preschool. when i returned and logged on, i reread what i wrote, and felt again, that i was defending myself, my situation.
I'm a working mother. That means I am away from my children most or part of the day in order to support us financially. I have different obstacles to overcome in my day than a mother who does not support her family financially. In no way does this mean I believe my challenges or obstacles are more valid or meaningful. They are what they are.
:nod ITA.

i feel like i was "sucked in" once again to defending myself, the need for a seperate forum, whatever.:rolleyes:

[Piglet68]

Just wanted to pop into this thread and ask if you're all okay with the forum title (working mamas) and the fact that it combines WAH and WOH mamas. If not, please let me know and I can bring the issue to the other mods and admins. I'm very new here (as mod) so would like to help out if possible.

[delighted.mama]

I totally agree with all of the other posters. Whereas ALL mothers work, the obstacles that WOH or WAH mom's face are unique in a lot of ways. I was under the impression that we had discussed all of this, and decided that both WOH and WAH moms could share this forum. I, for one, think we still have a lot in common, even if the specifics of how we work are different. Also, I don't feel that the term WOH is derisive. It's just a way to explain what we do. Any label will still be limiting. I also like coming to this forum for both advice and to share experiences with other women who have BTDT and understand. That's just my 2 cents! :p

[hulamama]

I agree with sweetbaby, chelle and delighted....let's leave it alone please. Otherwise this will never end. please. pretty please.

[Lucky Charm]

hulamama....:hug

[Faith]

Part of me doesn't even believe I am opening my mouth here... BUT:rolleyes: ...

I think if there is a WOHM forum, there should also be a SAHM forum. It seems very unfair.

Also, I think some of the comments here are degrading to SAHMs. I mean, there is actually a thread called 'why are some SAHMs so jr. high?' (or whatever). That is just rude and unnecessary. What if someone started a thread saying 'why are some muslim moms so immature?' or 'why are some wohms so (insert bad trait here)?' Would that be okay then?

I am not against WAHMs having their own forum. I am so glad that as a SAHM I do no thave to deal with the things they deal with and that I do not have to leave my children, etc. But I just hate it when things are not fair, and I don't feel that they are.

I am sure SAHMs would appreciate having their own place to talk about their days, making friends, living on one income, etc. Are we not as important as WOHMs?

Sorry this is OT, but the unfairness bothers me more than the actual names. Maybe SAHMs should just use this forum too, as we are all working, like the OP said..?

[Threefold]

As a WOHM who wishes more than anything to be a SAHM--so many times the entire board seems like the place for SAHM--those of us who WOHM or WAHM for whatever reason need a place to support eachother.

edited b/c i posted while dozing an said "forum" in place of "board"
:zzz

[chellemarie]

This thread is making me rather irritable.

Today is my second day back to work. I'm am utterly overwhelmed by my new schedule. It's almost more upsetting than having to leave my baby (since I have a wonderful dcp).

The day of a working mother is different than the day of a stay-at-home mother. When applying attachment parenting principles to my life, I run into roadblocks you most likely won't encounter. Use this forum to post if you like, there's no rule you can't. But if you do, I ask you not make this an issue again. We genuinely need this forum for support and ideas and advice and just as an outlet sometimes.

You're wondering about the post about some mothers being so junior high. There's something very junior high about bickering over who has a tougher job and if we should be allowed to voice our problems and feelings in a forum where we should feel safe to do so. Why do you CARE? You know what we mean and you know we don't look down upon you for staying home with your children. The vast majority of us would like to be in your position. Not because we think you have it easier, but that you and your children might have it just a little bit better.

Piglet...the title of this forum is fine. Perhaps we need a sticky explaining the LACK of need for this discussion. If anyone is still concerned about the title "Working Mother", please refer to the definition at the beginning of "Nursing Mother, Working Mother".

[Lucky Charm]

there should also be a SAHM forum. It seems very unfair.
it seems like the whole board is for sahm's except for this particular forum. there are several threads devoted to sahm's....where sahms post their frustrations and joys....including full bashing of us selfish, child abusing wohm/wahm's. this forum is for moms to share without worrying about offending any sahm's....a place where we can come and share exp[eriences unique to us. why do you care that wohm/wahm's have a place to go? when i see certain titles to threads....i dont always click on them. and the ones i do, usually i get aggravated, alot like you are now. yes we all are working moms, but as a woman who has been a sahm, i can tell you that i do have it differently. very much so. and my frustratons are not at all like yours. just like breastfeeding moms have a place to ask questions and discuss, or moms with PPD have a place, this is a plcae for moms who work to has it out. i dont feel excluded by the breastfeeding forum, diapering forum, homeschooling forum.

Also, I think some of the comments here are degrading to SAHMs. I mean, there is actually a thread called 'why are some SAHMs so jr. high?' (or whatever).
as far as sahm's being junior high, it seems like this thread is turning into an example of just that. i do not and will not defend who i am and what i do to another woman who has no idea or clue as to my days. especially when it seems like there are threads devoted to calling me a bad mother because i work, because i used a binky (if you didnt work, you could have your baby at your breast for 10 years!)
Part of me doesn't even believe I am opening my mouth here
i cant either perfect love. you are the biggest opponet to working moms and one of the harshest critics. i know this to be tru, because i have felt your wrath. This thread is making me rather irritable.
ITA. this is ridiculous that on a forum for working moms i have to again do this. imagine iof i logged on to the EBF and started something? or go onto homeschooling and bash them, or beupset because they have their own forum? give me a break this is making me sick. :Puke

[captain optimism]

Well you know, we could call it the "working for money outside (or inside) the home at something besides parenting, not that we don't think parenting is work, or that it shouldn't be compensated, too" forum. :p

I found "Working Mamas" very clear, though!

I wouldn't be offended if the SAHMS wanted to have their own forum. I think at this moment in the wider society, women who work (for money at non-parenting activities) don't get adequate social support, and women who parent full time (and don't get paid but probably should) don't get adequate social support, either. I do notice, however, that most of the moms on this particular board are not working full time at non-parenting activities.

I just went back to work and I have so many questions about how this is going to work out. How will I keep up my milk? How will my baby deal with me leaving the house every day, once I'm back to full time? Are these questions that experienced SAHMs can answer for me? Not really, because those aren't SAHM issues. I would never say that SAHMS were (what was the phrase?) "junior high"? because for one thing 1) I respect SAHMs and 2) I respect children in junior high, and I don't think their age should be a byword for not-nice behavior! :rolleyes:

[glh]

Here we go again! I think wohms/wahms should have their own forum. Having been a full-time wohm for quite a few years, I can say that they definitely have some different worries and issues than sahms. However, do I think it should be a forum to bash sahms; NO I don't. Yes, I have read posts bashing wohms and I have called posters on that too.

Having been on both sides and having known many moms on both "sides", please let me say just two things:
Wohms love and care about their kids just as much as sahms;
Sahms are not lazy, unambitious women with too much time on their hands.

OK, I'm done, can't we all just get along?

[Faith]

Sweetbaby~
:hippie Just don't get upset, and listen to what I am getting at, okay? I am not bashing working moms. What I am saying is~ How is it fair that WOHMs have their own place and SAHMs don't? We each have our own unique issues and could each benefit from our own forums. I did not ask you to defend working. I know you work, and I also know the way you and dh do it, so that your kids get to stay at home with a parent. Yes, I do think children are far better off when they have a SAHM, but I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are.

But in the way that there is a homeschool forum AND a school forum, a diapering forum AND an elimination communication forum, even a forum for dads and people of different sexual orientations, why is it too much to ask for if there is going to be a WOHM forum, that we also have a SAHM forum? It should be no big deal.


And what about the thread with the offensive title? No one else could get away with that. That is just rude, mean, and wrong. No one should be allowed to negatively stereotype another group that way. Why is suppoed to be okay to single out and attack SAHMs?

[LiamnEmma]

This was definitely discussed and batted around already, and I personally believe that it's worth the effort it has taken and will continue to take to keep this forum alive.

Posted by perfectlove
Also, I think some of the comments here are degrading to SAHMs. I mean, there is actually a thread called 'why are some SAHMs so jr. high?' (or whatever). That is just rude and unnecessary. What if someone started a thread saying 'why are some muslim moms so immature?' or 'why are some wohms so (insert bad trait here)?' Would that be okay then?

Perfectlove, I hope you read that thread. If you haven't, I recommend it because you will see that the WAHM/WOHM's defended SAHM's and reframed the scenario that was being addressed. :hippie edited to add; And I meant to say that of course I don't think it's okay to title a post in that manner, nor would the other examples be either.

Someone talked about juggling balls, and I'd like to chime in that I think SAHM's are juggling just as many, but that they are different balls with different needs and purposes and whathaveyou. I think it's all hard, and I like that the "working" mamas have a forum to go to for scheduling conflicts, daycare questions and issues. To me, it just centralizes the questions and issues and makes it easier to find the answers you're looking for. I personally have no problem with a SAHM forum, as long as you don't mind me popping in now and then with my own questions--especially during the summer months when I do get to gloriously be a SAHM. :) Again, I wholly support the working mama's forum. It's nice to check in here and offer my two cents on pumping, or ask a question about nanny, or whatever it is that has to do with my job/parenting conflicts.

:love

[Lucky Charm]

http://mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48158&highlight=stay+at+home+moms (http://)
perfect love, here is an excellent thread for SAHM's.

if all you wanted was a forum for SAHM's, why not email or PM the mods/administration? why not post in questions and suggestions? TAO? Parenting Issues main forum? why here in the working mamas forum? i am in no way saying you cant post a question here, or anywhere for that matter. i just find it *ironic*that you posted the question here, on this particular forum. this forum on which we talk about working issues, working being something you are against, and a vocal opponet of. and yes i get upset, i believe you told me once that i shouldnt have had children. i should look in the archives and find the thread where you said that, and questioned my mothering. i would not find it divisive or exclusive if there were a SAHM forum. and i support any forum. its nice to be able to log on and go right where you need to for answers and support.

Someone talked about juggling balls, and I'd like to chime in that I think SAHM's are juggling just as many, but that they are different balls with different needs and purposes and whathaveyou.
That was me. I apologize if i insinuated that SAHM's do not juggle many balls. i know for a fact they do, because i have done it. what i was trying to say (and obviously miserabley failed to do) was that i do have 10-20 balls in the air, but different balls, which you kindly pointed out.

[LiamnEmma]

sweetbaby :hug :hug

[Faith]

Sweetbaby~

I know I would have never personally told you I don't think you should have had children. I have looked in the archives in the past and cannot find that thread. Maybe you would have better luck.

Thank you for taking the time to post the link, but I could not open it. Still, that is only a thread, where WOHMs have an entire separate forum.

Yes, I do believe children are better off when moms stay at home with them. Is is wrong for me to believe that? Either way, that is not the point here. I posted this here because I thought this was the only place where it has come up a little, by the debating of the names and who can come here, etc. I guess it would also be appropriate to start a new thread in TAO or to PM a mod, and maybe I should.

I admit to seeing to seeing most things as pretty black and white. This is partly because of who I am, and partly because of my faith. One of the reasons I come here is to see the other side and hopefully gain a better understanding of how they see things. That is why I am over here in this forum, and the same reason why I started the abortion threads~ just trying to become more understanding by seeing other view points. I am not trying to step on any toes. Again, all I am saying is if WOHMs get a forum, where is the SAHMs forum? No big deal, and definitely not to get you all upset, Sweetbaby! :D


LiammEmma~
I will go read that thread, thank you.


:hippie

[chellemarie]

I believe "Natural Family Living" and "Attachment Parenting" usually equal "stay at home parent". WOHM/WAHMs are exceptions to the rule.

While I personally don't care if there's a SAHM forum and think it's great if SAHMs want one, I think the entire board in general offers a haven for AP principles. Now, call me crazy, but I don't think it's that odd for those of us who must or even choose to work AND want to live a healthy, natural lifestyle and attachment parent our children should have a separate place to go.

Extreme example: My kids don't have special needs. I'm not over in the special needs forum hollering about another forum for kids with "normal" needs. The whole board is already serving that purpose, is it not?

[Lucky Charm]

well said, Chellemarie. :thumb
you articulated far better what i was trying to say.
and i agree totally.

[EFmom]

Ditto what chellemarie just said. The assumption in most of the forums is that everyone is a SAHM. If SAHMs want a specific forum to just address SAHM issues, I think that's great, although I think that many, many threads from many other forums should get moved their and it would end up being huge.

PL, I really don't see the point in you coming here to tell us that children are better off when moms stay at home with them Mine aren't, I promise you. If you were here to just "see the other side," you wouldn't have felt the need to slip that in.

[Faith]

EFMom~
Um, when you quote someone you should at least bother to use the whole sentence, or someone might think you are using things out of context to your own advantage.:rolleyes:

Go back and read the rest if my sentence, maybe even the whole paragraph if you missed that much of the point.

I did not come here to tell you that, I was trying to validate what Sweetbaby said about my feelings, while explaining myself. I didn't "feel the need to slip it in.":confused:

I came here, as I said to to
1) find better understanding of people who do things differently
2) to voice my opinion, as is one of the points of this thread

Okay, does that make sence to everyone?
Is there some reason I must have an ulterior motive to want a SAHM forum? Jeez, let it go people.

So far, all I have gotten a greater understanding of is some people in this forum are over-analytical and looking for the worst, unfriendly to people with different views, and even a little unnerving ~wow, why are you promising me that your kids are better off away form you?!:eek That seems a little disturbing to me. I hope things are okay. Working or not, I would like to think that most moms at least think that it is good for their kids to be around them. :confused:

Whatever. I am not to debate this type of things with you. My points were that I think there should be a SAHM thread for the interest of fairness, and that I think there is a derogatory thread title here.

At this point, I also feel a need to apologize to Piglet, for probably making her radar go up allready due to his thread.

I disagree that this whole place is like a big SAHM forum. SAH is a specific part of AP, just like CDing and HSing, which all have their own forums. SAHMs would benefit from their own forum, too.

[chellemarie]

Then I believe we should also have a forum for those who don't use cloth, for those who formula feed and for those don't use gentle discipline.

FWIW: I don't see anyone here being rude or disrespectful. Until I read your posts. They read rather harshly. I also don't believe taking off "Yes, I do believe" changes the meaning of the rest of the sentence when it ends "children are better off when moms stay at home with them". That's a whopper of a statement for someone trying to gain better understanding in a forum meant for women who don't stay home with their children.

If you want your own board for SAHMs, ask a moderator or pm Cynthia or something. It's not necessary to come here and say, "So far, all I have gotten a greater understanding of is some people in this forum are over-analytical and looking for the worst, unfriendly to people with different views, and even a little unnerving ~wow, why are you promising me that your kids are better off away form you?! That seems a little disturbing to me. I hope things are okay. Working or not, I would like to think that most moms at least think that it is good for their kids to be around them".

My kids are better off in daycare because without my income, we couldn't afford decent housing, a reasonable amount of groceries, etc. YES, we have other luxuries, but my paid-in-full health insurance premiums aren't something I can take away from my children, either.

Blah blah blah. I'm rambling and I could go on and on. Talk to Cynthia, please.

[Alstrameria]

Wow. Perfect Love, this really isn't the place to post that you feel SAHM are being left out, or that you want a forum for SAHM. Which should be SAHP in my opinion. I don't get the feeling your motives are as altruistic as you say they are.

Specific forums are borne out of need, so it would follow that there has not yet been a need for a SAHP forum. Until this one came up and then you were...what? Jealous? It wasn't fair? Again, you should voice that opinion to someone who can do something about it.

That's actually my only problem with the forum name, I think it should be Working Parents . But you can it whatever you want, it means what it means. Seems a little nitpicky to me.

Jen

[Piglet68]

Hi everyone. Just caught up with you here. This thread is currently being reviewed...I'm not locking it (yet) and, being new to this, I'm awaiting some advice before taking action (which I feel is warrented, btw). Please keep this in mind before adding any more posts to this thread.

Thanks!

[Piglet68]

This thread is being closed due to user agreement violations.

If anybody would like to request a new forum be established, or that a current forum title be changed, the proper procedure is to contact a moderator or administrator and ask them, rather than visit an existing forum and complain about it there. There is also a Questions and Suggestions board that one can post to for such things.

I would also like to point out that if anyone feels offended by a post, the proper procedure is to contact the moderator (me) and complain, rather than to address that person in a reply post.

If any of you have any questions or concerns about this thread and/or how it was dealt with, please feel free to PM me.