The "how to" and the benifits of water-birth discussion thread.

[Alexander]

Water birth.

The water should definitely not be higher than the mother's body temperature.

With this proviso, the water should be kept at the temperature that makes the mum feel comfortable.

On our first birth, the mid-wife was in the pool with us, and as my wife started to feel too cold asked them to turn the hot tap on, who fobbed her off with "in a little while".

DW "Alexander, tell them to put more hot water in. I'm cold!"

A "Put more hot water in, please."

It helps to have a supportive partner around.

The depth of the water should be deep enough to support the mothers torso if she is sitting down in the water.

Any disinfectant in the water I would say is a bad idea. In most Industrialised countries, the water is clean, and if it has been heated on its way into the tub, then clean enough. The germs that the baby will encounter from the parents, it will encounter anyway, soon after birth. Just make sure you are both clean when you get into the pool. Washing with handfuls of salt prior to getting in is the best way, carefully washing off any salt that remains on the body. Don't even think about putting salt into the pool. It is not enough the neutralize any bugs, unless you put in really loads, and by the time you have put enough in, the pool has become a place to shock the infant, possibly to death, as any open wounds will be very painful. If the dad decides to get in the pool, (I recommend it) he should wear trunks. (Reduces the number of hairs that have to be scooped out.)

Speaking of scooping, make sure you have a hand held pool scoop or tea strainer to take out any poop that leaks out.

You should not worry about the baby breathing in the bath water. Nature has taken care of this for us.

As the baby comes out, it's lungs, wind-pipe, nasal passage and mouth are filled with ambiotic fluid. Moving from the womb to the water is little different for the baby, and it will not try to draw a breath until it gets to the surface, and then only slowly. The ambiotic fluid protects the young lungs at this stage. This is as nature intended, and not to have it sucked out. This fluid is absorbed by the body, and breathing begins gently, not all at once on a raw lung. There maybe "matter" in the mouth, in or around the nostrils, and this can be wiped away with your finger or swallowed as the child takes its first suckle.

Sometimes the child cries, sometimes not at all.

Our first was as slippery as soap, and when she got to the surface, began to draw breath, opened her eyes immediately, gave one cry, (more of surprise than anything else,) and watched me for the next 20 minutes before looking around the room. She was not interested in the nipple, more about the gentle April dawn creeping through the bamboo blinds into our pool.

Our second was sticky. She did cry, and went straight to the nipple. We did not manage to get the music on early enough, and the lights were still on, (she came out so quickly and easily, we were hardly ready), and if I could do it again, I would make the pool bigger. We did have a couple of mid-wives present. They were there more for curiosity than anything else, as they had never seen a water birth before, but heard that it is done on the National Health in the UK. Technically, what we had done was illegal, so we rang them as we got into the pool, so they would not get into any trouble.

The water pressure prevents undue bleeding when the placenta comes out. This should never be pulled or tugged.

In fact, I go further than that by suggesting that the umbilical chord never be cut until the placenta starts to come off of it's own accord. The reason for this is that it gives the new-born infant the opportunity to get oxygen from two sources, one rising, one dwindling. At about the time that the lungs are fully inflated, the placenta comes off. The two do not always co-inside exactly, but nature has done a pretty good job on the timing front.

When the chord is cut, use really sharp scissors. The chord is rubbery, slippery, and VERY resistant to cutting. We used a huge pair of sewing scissors.

As for eating the placenta, the benefits, the preparation and storage of. . . this deserves it's own thread which I am now preparing.

Hope this helps.

a

[copslass]

Thank you for such detailed information, Alexander!

Very interesting and helpful, as I am looking forward to a home water birth in my future!

Tracy

[indigolilybear]

>The chord is >rubbery, slippery, and VERY resistant to cutting. We used a <huge pair of sewing scissors

just had to add...or you can do a lotus birth and keep letting nature take it's course. :love after all, it *IS* very resistant. ;)

[violet]

Thank you thank you thank you Alexander.
I will print this up for DH. He is SO into the water birth--he rigged up the tub (horse trough) and he is so proud of his engineering attempts. Thank you, V

[motherdownunder]

Just a note to say that we used a birthing pool with both of our home births but neither boy was actually born in the water. I really felt that I needed firm ground under my feet and the help of gravity when it came time for the actual birth. It's just good to keep an open mind and not have your heart set on a water birth no matter what.

[Alexander]

This is a good point.

There really is no "proper" way to give birth. Some poeple like DH to be in the pool to act as an intelligent cushion, some like to use a chair! Some on their backs in the water then rolling over at delivery time, most though in doggy style.

Be comfy.

a

[Bekka]

Thanks Alexander. I'm very interested in the option of a waterbirth. Your info is very helpful!

[Alexander]

It has just occured to me to point out that people should not stay in the same water for more than 24 hours.
Disinfecting with neat Detol and changing the water at least ever 24 hours, (every 12 if there has been M leakage) is necessary in order to keep germs under control.

Hope this helps

a

[carol]

water birth is the way to go. i had 5 of mine underwater and delivered more than 120 that way as well. it is by far the wave of the future. everywomen that used the tub(150 gal. water trough) and i insisted that they at least have the tub filled so they could use it if they wanted to, ended up delivering in it. the placenta and all. you can get a really wonderful pychedelic view of that awsome organ under water.
i give infant swimming classes to women who want to continue the training and benefits of children in the water alot.!~!
water birth is safe, clean, and effective. NOONE should be at all afraid of it.

[Alexander]

Thanks carol,

You're a gem :)

a

[m&m]

I too only laboured partly in water (I say partly because i labored for 11 days prior to the last 5 hours in the water). I even watched a movie from inside the pool - I bought a 5 feet circular pool with 2 feet inflatable sides and an inflatable bottom - very comfy. I could push and rest against the side.

I felt my baby wanted dry land - and I wanted gravity. But The contractions in water were so much easier than those I had on land :) At one point I got out to have the water warmed up, and those contractions were horrible. I stayed in the water for over 5 hours - it felt great (in that I mean better than on land)- and I liked the water warm.

I was also happy to hear that pee is sterile - so I did not have to get out to go pee - good thing, since I had to go with every 4th contraction.

It felt great to be just my dh and me, with dimmed lights and candles. We called the midwives when I felt like pushing and got scared.

I wish you power on your labor and birth. :)

[Alexander]

Thanks m&m,

That input is worth pointing out.

However, I'd like to point out one thing to those that are concidering using candles.

They are a point sourse (of light) and as such, painful to look at. I would srongly suggest that if people want to use candles, (and it is a lovley idea) that the blow them out before the baby is born. A bland background light is easier on the child as it emerges.

Afterall, they've been in the dark all that time, suddenly into the light, any light, is a shock.

a

[Raven]

Alexander you are an absolute GEM!!!

I had a water birth which was AMAZING!! I would definatly recommend it to anyone and wouldn't think twice with the next birth.

Here are some links

www.waterbirth.org
http://www.thelaboroflove.com/forum/water/info.html

Barbara Harper is great for info on water birth. She wrote a book called Gentle Birth Choices which also has tons of info from gentle birth ingredients (low light, etc) and natural pain relief techniques. Shes awesome!

[carol]

barbara at water birth inter. is a wonderful resource but i have to add that the movie "gentle birth choices" is good but there really is alot of delee and regularsuction at every birth. not only is the delee dangeroud but ALL suctioning is dangerous. no waterbirth baby needs to be suctioned. they will clear it out and it actually causes baby to react thereby inhaling more mucoud that they would otherwise cough up. if you feel an infant is in danger a few drops of rescue remedy on the tongue will wake up even the floppiest baby. i like that movie as an intro to water birth but i am always quick to point out all the unnecessary suctioning.

[Raven]

Good point. My dd was never suctioned and she was perfectly fine.

[barbara]

Thanks all...
...for all the great waterbirth info.

My daughter-in-law (not yet pregnate) is looking into waterbirth at a hospital-run birth center. My good friend and fellow homebirth mom is an ob nurse there, and would make a good doula for her. I have encouraged DIL to consider a birthing pool at home (my midwife has one) but DIL has to find her own path...there is still time.

I wonder if any of you have had good experiences with waterbirth in a hospital setting?

Peace~

[Alexander]

I might be out of date on this, but in the UK, water birth is provided by the National Health (Free by the Govnt.) and thus (I thought) in most hospitals.

There maybe some UK web sites that provide more information on this.

We used a clinic for our first. After an exhaustive search round the country, we realized that we needed a place where there were no men, more particularly, no men doctors! :rolleyes:

(This country is so utterly backward!)

The clinic was well though out.

No telephones. No clicking doors. no metal eating utensils or "loud" crockery. No bright lights.

Hope this helps

a

[pie]

Wow Alexander, I am SO thrilled to have found this.

Thanks... I will be sharing it with my husband and family. They are wary of me wanting this but I am more convinced than ever.

[violet]

Andrew--We are doing a trial run on filling the tub. We are limited to a hose from a bathroom sink for filling and the waterheater here is small--we will drain it at least once, probably twice to fill the tub. I read somewhere about filling up the tub with water a bit too hot early in labor and keeping the tub covered with an emergency blanket until mom decides to dive in. At that point you can add more hot water or cold water to adjust the temp. We are thinking about using water heated on the stove to supplement for filling it up when the water heater is heating back up. Any tips on filling the tub and keeping the water hot? We can't afford anything fancy that would keep the water circulating and heated.

Any news on the eating the placenta thread? Just curious.

Regards, V.

[Mommy22B]

I had alovely watebirth last month. THe pushing stage was incredibly fast so I don't know how nice it was then , but let me tell you, laboring in the water was really nice. i labored the whole time (in and out of the water in my hands and knees rocking my hips around, and the water rushing against my skin was nice. i also liked how she came out nice and clean.:D

[JeanetteL]

Just wanted to add that I LOVED my waterbirth. I wasn't sure I would want to deliver in the water, but wanted the tub filled as an option.

We bought an inflatable kiddie pool with inflatable bottom. It only cost 20 dollars and worked wonderfully. We filled the pool with a hose from the bathroom using a waterbed kit (also helpful for drainage). I don't think I would ever pay for the rental of a birth tub, this was perfect.

I believe the water really helped with pain management. My labour stalled for a short time due to a swollen cervical lip. I had to stay on my hands and knees in the pool and had horrible back labour in that position. I think the pain would have been so much harder to endure without the warm water.

At one point the water had cooled too much, so the MW's emptied some of it with mixing bowls and filled it back up with the hose shortly before the baby crowned.

Bella was not suctioned and breathed fine. We covered her with a towel after she was born and kept pouring warm water from the tub over the towel to keep her warm while we sat there. We did wait for the cord to stop pulsing before cutting it - the placenta was already bulging out of me at this point. My MW did not want me to deliver the placenta in the pool, but it fell out as soon as I stood up. I have some amazing pictures of the water afterwards, there is a very cool web like pattern on top of the water, MW said from the surfantant.

My birth story is posted on this forum if anyone would like to read it to learn more about one experience of waterbirth. I would definetely reccomend it!

I was on a waterbirht email list during my pregnancy and one of the members had a great signature line "Water babies rise to the top!"

Jeanette

[sully]

I'm thrilled to read all of these stories- I'm planning a hospital water birth sometime soon! I'm due with my 2nd child on the 21st of this month and really really want a water birth. The hospital where I'm birthing is very progressive and has a water birthing room, as well as a few other jacuzzi rooms for laboring but not birthing. Last time I had a horrid birth experience and did spend some time in the jacuzzi, but had to get out when I became clostrophobic in the tiny room where the jacuzzi was. The water birthing room is large so hopefully that problem won't happen again!

[pie]

Good luck to you Sully... I can't wait to hear how it goes honey!!

[Alexander]

Mamapie!
You just got here?

Where you b''n ;)

a

[valeria_vi]

I had a waterbirth question and my thread got 0 replies. i still am very interested in the info. http://mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5628

[Alexander]

Originally posted by valeria_vi
I had a waterbirth question and my thread got 0 replies

Hi valeria_vi,

Geeze, your post was only up for a couple of hours! You got to give us time to come accross it ya know ;)

But I've put something up that I hope will help

a

[valeria_vi]

Originally posted by Alexander


Hi valeria_vi,

Geeze, your post was only up for a couple of hours! You got to give us time to come accross it ya know ;)

But I've put something up that I hope will help

a
Alexander,
if you look carefully at the DATE, you will se that my post had been on the board since FEBRUARY 5th.
but thanks for replying.

[barbara]

Alexander,

Thanks for all the helpful posts on waterbirth.
I have a question ~
why are we boycotting colgate and what is the problem with anti-bacterial? sorry for my ignorance.
:hippie

[organicmama]

Hi all! I had a water birth with my 2nd baby & we are planning a home/waterbirth for our third due the end of June. We are so excited! All of the information so far has been very helpful & supportive. I am a little nervous about getting it right since you only get one chance at it! I like the water really nice & warm. I remember last time we ran out of hot water & it was very irritating to me to get chilled. I told my doula to expect to be boiling water this time! :)

Also, Alexander, thanks so much for pointing out the drawbacks of using candles. I make my own beeswax candles & was planning to give one to each mama that comes to my blessingway & also use the same votive size all around the room for lighting if it's dark when I labor. What do you think about getting candles holders that are deep & diffuse the light? That would be ok, don't you think? I find candle lighting so soothing & relaxing plus the smell of beeswax is wonderful. Of course, we could blow them all out at the last minute but then it would break the mood, I'm thinking. Plus, I have a strange feeling about blowing out the candles as candles symbolize life in so many ceremonies (such as weddings). I really want a very beautiful, spiritual experience... Any thoughts?

[temama]

Someone please tell me about Lotus birth...I want to check out all of my options...I had three pretty bad hospital births...didn't really feel I needed to be there because I used no drugs. They did have me hooked up to an IV because I tested positive for group be strep for bb1 & 3. Water broke with number two and was given pitocin just 2 hours after when I showed no signs of having contractions and was already 2 weeks past due date. Want plenty more children and want to do it at home in the water!!! Another question...I have a huge 42" garden tub can I give birth in this????


Carey

An informed decision is the only decision...

[Alexander]

> Alexander,
> if you look carefully at the DATE, you will se that
> my post had been on the board since FEBRUARY 5th.
> but thanks for replying.

Duh!

Sorry! Silly me!

Wait a minute. Are we in March already???

Cripes!

:p

a

[Alexander]

Originally posted by barbara
Alexander,
I have a question ~
why are we boycotting colgate and what is the problem with anti-bacterial?
:hippie

Because, casual use of anti-bacterial products leads to bacteria that are resistant to those products. Then we have fewer things in our armery to combat the more serious ones.

a

[Alexander]

Originally posted by organicmama
Also, Alexander, thanks so much for pointing out the drawbacks of using candles. I make my own beeswax candles & was planning to give one to each mama that comes to my blessingway & also use the same votive size all around the room for lighting if it's dark when I labor. What do you think about getting candles holders that are deep & diffuse the light? That would be ok, don't you think? I find candle lighting so soothing & relaxing plus the smell of beeswax is wonderful.

Any thoughts?

I think your idea of using difuse light is wonderful. Make sure that they shades don't catch fire!!! :p

However, I'd be reluctant to use bees wax.

I think there is a chance of of producing aerosol particles (this is what you smell after all), and in that there is the (very real chance) that botulism (of often found in honey, which is why we do not feed children under 2) will be carried in the aerosol particles.

It would be dreadfully sad if this happened, on the first day of life.

No then to bees wax.

a

[Alexander]

Originally posted by temama
Someone please tell me about Lotus birth

Another question...I have a huge 42" garden tub can I give birth in this????
Carey


Lotus birth. There is already a thread on this.

Garden tub. Yes, if it is clean, and you can get in and out easily.

I strongly suggest you practice once a month to get used to the amounts of water involved, the time it takes, the practicalities of getting in and out.

Hope this helps.

a

[temama]

Alexander-

Thank you for the info...I will use my garden tub. I know that better than anything else as I use it daily and sometimes for hours on end when I'm pregnant. And Lotus birth...Christina Wadsworth at midwiferytoday.com gave me awesome information and I have decided to practice this on my next child.

I also wanted to add that its wonderful to see such dedicated partners these days. Unfortunately I think that here in Louisiana they fathers need some help in that department, DH excluded.

Thanks again,

Carey

[organicmama]

Huh!?! Aeorosol particles? from candles? I've never heard of such a thing. My 5 y.o. son has had 3 heart surgeries & for a long time couldn't tolerate the smoke & suet generated by regular candles. Now I make my own raw beeswax candles. They burn clean with little or no smoke, last longer with less dripping & smell fresh & clean. They don't leave a smoke residue on things in your house like other candles do. Typical candles are petroeum based (non-renewable & toxic). Plus, I recently found out that beeswax candles emit small amounts of negative ions, like a rain storm, which helps to purify the air. If you want to know more about beeswax candles, check out: http://www.beeswaxcandles.com/

How can I get more info on the possible botulism hazard?

[Alexander]

Originally posted by organicmama
Huh!?! Aeorosol particles? from candles? I've never heard of such a thing. My 5 y.o. son has had 3 heart surgeries & for a long time couldn't tolerate the smoke & suet generated by regular candles.


any small particle (suet or smoke) is an aerosol particle.

To tell you the truth, I didn't know about the advantages of bees wax, and based my idea on the experience of regular candles. Thus, the problem may well be much less than I worry it to be ;)

a

[violet]

We test-filled our pool. It takes about an hour because we have to stop to let the waterheater catch up. We are using a big red hose that says on the label you can run hot water through it. We had a RV/trailer hose before but it said not to run hot water through it. Then a friend just recommended we use a RV/trailer type hose because typical garden hoses are not considered safe for potable water. We don't have a typical garden hose; we have the rubbery hot water hose. It's not really like a garden hose at all, but since it's made out of rubber/plastic chemicals and who knows what, is it really safe? So if I don't want toxins in the birth pool, is there any type of hose that is safe? It's a big pool and I don't really want DH running around with pots of hot water when he should be hanging out with me. Hurmph. Just when we thought we had it all figured out..... any thoughts?

V.

[Alexander]

where is the pool?

a

[violet]

sorry for my slowness to respond Andrew; it's been one of those weeks.

Our "pool" is actually a big rubber horse trough (so Why I'm worried about still more rubber/plastic is another question--perhaps I should be worried about that too!! I'm getting to the stage where if I'm not careful, I will start to worry about the most pointless things.) We plan to put it either in the living room (lots of natural light and high ceilings, close to the backyard for cleanup, but far from the bathroom.) Or we will put it in the extra room which means we can leave it set up, I'd be close to the bathroom, a shower, and my bed, but the room is small. Either location is near a sink that we have an adaptor for, but only the living room is near the kitchen for the pots of hot water thing.

I don't like plastic in general--I know that some plastics are made with pretty toxic stuff and others aren't so bad but you really have no way of knowing. We have thoroughly washed and aired out the tub and we can run tons of water through the hose prior to the event, but we'd just never really know would we. So I don't know what I'm looking for here. Reassurance that everybody uses plastic birthing tubs and garden hoses or perhaps I should just jump in our tiny little bathtub and call it a day.

puzzled, violet

[Alexander]

Originally posted by violet
I don't like plastic in general--I know that some plastics are made with pretty toxic stuff and others aren't so bad but you really have no way of knowing. We have thoroughly washed and aired out the tub and we can run tons of water through the hose prior to the event, but we'd just never really know would we. So I don't know what I'm looking for here. Reassurance that everybody uses plastic birthing tubs and garden hoses or perhaps I should just jump in our tiny little bathtub and call it a day.

puzzled, violet

Just jump in our tiny little bathtub and call it a day.


Does the tub smell stongly of plastic? More say than a baby's plastic bath?

Don't clean with cleaning solutions that can react chemically. Just soap and water. As for the hose... If you are worries, go down to the hardware store and get a couple of meters of copper pipe. (how far is the tub from the hot tap?)

a

[AuntMama]

I'm planning for a homebirth/waterbirth any day ("due date" passed on 4 April) and was planning to use candles, along with a dim lamp across the room, for lighting. I appreciate the good words on the avoidance of point sources of light that can hurt a newborn's eyes. My midwife had planned on snuffing the candles before the birth in case she needed to use the blowby oxygen, for which I understand the necessity, but someone pointed out that blowing out candles might break the mood. Any thoughts?

[m&m]

I forogt that i had also used a red light bulb in one of my lamps - the light is soft, and red energy is very good - also more womb-like. Very soothing -

Also, my babies had their eyes closed for the first few minutes -

I would also like to add that camera flashes are very harsh lights.

[Alexander]

sorry for the delay. Currently hosptalised :(
contribution will now be intermitent.

NO to camera flash.

Nothing wrong with asa 1000 or 1600 film.

Kill the mood, not the baby. Blow out the candels. (make it a ceromony)

Red is might not be ok for new borns. Subs use red so when they surface at night, the eyes are already adjusted to the dark.

I'm not sure about this, but look.

It may be because we see red most easily, therefore red will be "bright" to babies. I'd tend to blue or green (water colors) because the the effect seem to effect the retena less. This means that you will have to turn the lighting up to see anything.

To be honest. Diffuse white light. It may not have the same "effect" as color, but we can't ask the baby, and this is generally done for our benefit.

Hope this helps

a

BTW Who is Andrew?

a

[violet]

Alexander--so sorry to hear you are out of circulation--We sure appreciate your helpful advice and hope you are feeling better. It was me who slipped on the name--I have other "andrews" in my life and I blame my pregnancy brain for the mixup. Hope you are well, V

[kama'aina mama]

A couple people have posted concerns about keeping the water at a pleasing temp under difficult conditions. Has anyone looked in to renting or buying one of those huge pot + butane burner combos they sell for deep frying turkeys? Seems to me you might be able to get a lot of hot water pretty quickly that way.

Gee, is THAT why they send the men to boil water in all those old timey movies?

[Alexander]

Originally posted by kama'aina mama
Has anyone looked in to renting or buying one of those huge pot + butane burner combos they sell for deep frying turkeys?

I'd be wary of increasing the CO2 content of the room. ASAIK, in the UK, any water heating device that produces exhaust in the room is illegal.

a

[kama'aina mama]

Gads! Not in the room! Outdoors! These are outdoor devices. If you haven't an accessable yard or balcony... no!

[playfulmama]

Wow, thanks Alexander... and friends for all the info!

I'm having my first and planning on a waterbirth... got the tub all ready! Although not full yet. I'm due in 2 days but my midwife thought it would be more like a week. We rented a birthing tub that is 45" diameter by 3' high. It takes forever to fill up (just over 2 hours) and empties the watertank 4 times! But I can get in before it is full and it comes with a heater that will maintain the heat for up to 20 hours (i think).

Just so excited! Want my bebe to come!

[kama'aina mama]

bumping up for a friend

[ChildoftheMoon]

I loved my water homebirth! I was so relaxed, I almost fell alseep minutes prior to pushing (actually I don't remember pushing, the contractions did it all) my 10 lb 2 oz babe out! The water and the support of my dh sitting behind me in the tub was wonderful! My bum was not sore, no tears. I do recommend having the tub set up prior to labor starting, as my labor was so fast that we were still pumping air into it and filling it with water while I birthed my babe.

[amandajf]

We used an inflatable pool as well. While in labor filled it with garden hose outsideannd warmed with boiling water. took 30--45 minutes.

[Alexander]

bump

a

[Alexander]

Bumpy bumpy bumpy.

a :D

[mwherbs]

so the water usually starts out a bit warmer than 98 degrees usually about 103 and some moms want hotter water---

[Alexander]

Are you asking or are suggesting, or are you reporting?

a

[pamamidwife]

I think most of the moms that I work with like the water about 98' or 99'. If it gets above 100', it's often too hot for them to tolerate in very active labor. But, then again, I'm just basing that on feel. I used to measure temps until I read some of Cornelia Enning's research from Germany on waterbirth. Now, I just go by whatever the mother wants.

[Alexander]

I would discourage you to have the water above body temperature.

Remember that the baby has no way to cool down, and it is being born into that environ. I'm sure the effect of raising the temperature above body temp cannot be good for a new-born.

a

[sarajane]

Gee, is THAT why they send the men to boil water in all those old timey movies?

:D I always wondered why boil water? I found out in an article I read that the midwives kept a pot of hot water with rags in it to put on the mothers perineum to soften up the area to help prevent tearing.

I'm sure alot of you already knew that but I didn't and thought it interesting so thought I would share.

[pamamidwife]

I would discourage you to have the water above body temperature.

Remember that the baby has no way to cool down, and it is being born into that environ. I'm sure the effect of raising the temperature above body temp cannot be good for a new-born.

a

While I agree that 102-103' is a bit too hot, I think it's important to remember that the temp of amniotic fluid is not 98.6 or whatever the mom's body temp is - it's often 1-2 degrees warmer than her body temp. :)

[mwherbs]

could be regional as well before I lived here we lived in the northern desert and it was 110 in the air in the summer and here we can be 115 easy and women are somewhat adjusted to the temps maybe I know that when we were just filling at 98-100 women were cold when they got in of course the thermometer is a float one so maybe it is just getting the hot top--so we fill hotter now and no complaints--- so mom should not be sweating and baby's heart rate should not speed up - if it does much then try to cool the water off but this has happened with women who have wanted very hot water--- I also think that having mom test the water with her arm before she gets in helps.

[momileigh]

I'm planning a waterbirth in an honest-to-goodness, full-sized jacuzzi hot tub. I'm excited about it because it is big, has the jet-streams, and you can easily regulate the water temperature to stay at a certain degree of your choice. It belongs to my mother-in-law and I'll have the baby at her house.

Some questions:

As long as I replace the chlorinated water in it with fresh water, is there any other detail I need to consider? How long before the birth should I put the birth-water in?

How do you drain the water out of it? Do I need a special pump?

If I get out of the tub for whatever reason, am I going to be very cold? (The house will be warm I'm sure but I mean after getting out of the warm water will I feel cold.) I'm a little afraid of being cold and wet and "in the moment" and it turning very miserable. With my dd's birth I wasn't calm at all, I was rather frantic the whole time once the contractions got tough. I'm hoping for a slightly calmer experience with the water birth but I know with my tendancy to freak out that it isn't a guarantee. My point is, is a high-strung birther like me going to regret getting wet if I have to leave the water? (No way to really answer that, but any thoughts?)

And finally, and perhaps most importantly: what do you think of having a water birth with a midwife who has never attended one before? (She's attended plenty of births but none born in the water.) In answering this please remember that I am NOT likely to be cool-headed during labor or delivery, and may definately need guidance from a midwife. I'm not the UC type. Is there some reason to suspect that this combination (me going somewhat nuts, a midwife who'd never done a waterbirth) could turn out to be dangerous?

These are some rambling questions but please weigh in!

[mwherbs]

why has your midwife never attended a waterbirth before? I know it could just be the luck of the draw but we have been doing births in water since the 80's and probably older midwives could say even longer. The past 5-6 years it has been a very popular way to birth so I have seen many more in recent years. The reason I am asking is about it is so you can find out if she has a fear or prejudice or if it is just chance/population she has been serving. She may be just fine and game to learn or she may be wary and end up guiding you out of the water near delivery.

[milk4two]

Waterbirth: I wouldn't do it any other way.

[Alexander]

As long as I replace the chlorinated water in it with fresh water, is there any other detail I need to consider? How long before the birth should I put the birth-water in?


?

Birth water?

I'd recomend the chlorinated tap water.

You are covered with germs from every-which-where.



How do you drain the water out of it? Do I need a special pump?


My point is, is a high-strung birther like me going to regret getting wet if I have to leave the water? (No way to really answer that, but any thoughts?)


Water births are calming experiences. Have soft lighting, (no candles), nice music (eg the way of the dolphin or Paclebel) and warm soft towels all around.



And finally, and perhaps most importantly: what do you think of having a water birth with a midwife who has never attended one before? (She's attended plenty of births but none born in the water.) In answering this please remember that I am NOT likely to be cool-headed during labor or delivery, and may definately need guidance from a midwife. I'm not the UC type. Is there some reason to suspect that this combination (me going somewhat nuts, a midwife who'd never done a waterbirth) could turn out to be dangerous?


Not dangerous IME because everything is nearly the same. Just in water. She should "want" to do it though, and have at least read some lit on the subject.

Don't have her come though the door to find you in the pool!!!

a

[mom2threenurslings]

Great thread! Thanks Alexander and everyone else!

I've had one birth center waterbirth, which I LOVED and am planning a home waterbirth.

[momileigh]

Thanks for the replies:

1. My midwife serves mostly women out in the "sticks" who give birth the way their mothers and grandmothers did. They are often too far to get to the hospital especially with the blizzard-like conditions that often plague us. They aren't really "choosing" homebirth and researching their options as much as they are doing what must be done, so waterbirth has apparantly just not been something women have requested. She doesn't do a high number of births, either, and that might be part of the reason. (She's doing 4 from now through the fall.)

2. When I say replace the chlorinated water, I mean the heavily-chlorinated hot tub water. There is more chlorine in a hot tub than in a public swimming pool because of people's propensity to pee in them, plus they are smaller, and the warm water would encourage germ growth. Am I wrong to assume that large amounts of chlorine (eye-burning chlorine) would not be good to birth in? The tap water is well-water, not chlorinated... should we add some chlorine?

I really, really hope that the water is calming enough for me! I know that I tend to overdramatize things and react rather ridiculously to pain (a skinned elbow a few weeks ago incapacitated me for nearly a week) but when I see videos or read about water births and everything is so calm, I really hope that it can be more like that this time.

Oh, and PS. the soft lighting is in the bag! There's one of those knob-regulated overhead lights in the room and you can turn it on very, very dimmly. But what do you do if its in the middle of the day? (I always picture birth happening at night.) Should we have all kinds of drapes for the windows? Hmm, that could get complicated... the tub is in a kind-of sun room with all windows across one wall.

[mwherbs]

birth is such a different feeling I am a real baby when it comes to sickness or pain. If i get a hangnail you will hear me talking about the pain and I will usually put some thing on it like saint john's wort oil. My mother went to New York instead of say in town when I had my first because she though it was going to be too upsetting to be around me in so much pain--- and guess what I handled it, and with the 2 homebirths the water was comforting. Do you normally like warm water and baths is it a trigger for relaxation for you? It is for many so it will probably work for you. if you are worried about getting chilled keep the room warm and some towels in the drier that someone can fetch for you or you could put them in a stack with a heating pad so when you get out there is some warmth. take care and have a great birth

[momileigh]

I do love the water, especially warm water. I know that birth is totally different from, say, the pain of breaking your toe or something, but for me w/ dd it still was quite painful and I was climbing the walls. Mostly it was like the worst gas pain ever. I have no idea if water is supposed to help with that or not, but this being my 2nd baby I'm hoping the whole thing is easier water or not.

My mw's main concerns with waterbirth are that she can't wipe the face off before the body is delivered, which she says makes the need to suction practically nonexistant in her experience. Also, she thinks I might lose some natural lubrication and not have the benefit of oil on my perineum, perhaps causing an abrasion. But overall she agrees that if I don't want to leave the water, I should not. She says in all the births she's been to where they labored in water, even at ones where they had planned to birth in the water, the mom instictively got out right before the baby came. I don't know... maybe I'll be her first, maybe I'll want to get out.

[pamamidwife]

My mw's main concerns with waterbirth are that she can't wipe the face off before the body is delivered, which she says makes the need to suction practically nonexistant in her experience. Also, she thinks I might lose some natural lubrication and not have the benefit of oil on my perineum, perhaps causing an abrasion. But overall she agrees that if I don't want to leave the water, I should not. She says in all the births she's been to where they labored in water, even at ones where they had planned to birth in the water, the mom instictively got out right before the baby came. I don't know... maybe I'll be her first, maybe I'll want to get out.


Ok, so I'm just wondering: how many births does your mw do? Is she an older mw?

Wiping off the face before the body is delivered is NOT necessary. Heck, no. In fact, suctioning the baby is a HUGE no-no - not evidence-based, not necessary, not helpful at ALL. No, no, no, no.

Water provides nice counterpressure. No need to oil the perineum. No need to have her fingers in you. No, no, no, no.

I want to stay nice here, and respect your mw, but she sounds like a mw talking from 1979!

I would urge you - really URGE you - to have her contact Barbara Harper from Waterbirth Intl. http://www.waterbirth.org/spa/index.php?option=com_philaform&form_id=5&Itemid=1 with her concerns. This is really vital. Because, I will tell you one thing - her fear about waterbirth and meddling with your labor and the birth of your baby will create a negative experience for you. She will be fighting against what your body will intuitively want to do.

Please. Contact Barbara. By phone. Share with her some of these ideas that your mw has. It just is so...well, dated. Does your mw read anything like Midwifery Today? Does she keep up on her continuing education?

I'm sorry, but there are so many red flags that I don't know where to start. Please contact Barbara. If you really want a waterbirth, your mw needs to be re-educated. Definitely. This will be good not only for your birth, but for other women under her care.

I apologize, again, if I'm out of line, I'm just really concerned about what your midwife believes to be true.

I want to add, also, because I'm just going too far I think, that even the University of Nebraska Medical Center allows waterbirths!

[mwherbs]

For the pain you describe the water helped me tremendously, for some women who do not like the tub often a hot shower helps, sometimes a woman doesn't think the tub or shower is helping until they climb out then they are right back in.


wiping a face down is a simple way to avoid using a bulb. But I have found that most babies don't even need any suction at all, yes babies some babies will cough and sputter but will bring the mucous up just fine., I do carry a bulb around just in case a baby needs some resuscitation I would rather use a bulb than a delee- and there are some studies around that indicate that it is just as good as a delee. as for lube in the tub water births over all have a reduced tear rate . your midwife may have some very good hands and practice at avoiding/preventing tears, I have worked with traditional gals who are golden at assisting no tears in hundred's - thousands of births. But a bit of reading will help assure her that it will be alright or she can contact someone like Marina Alzugarary( Marina is an older very EXPERIENCED midwife who may have some helpful information for you midwife) or Barb Harper who has been mentioned before or probably best would be another midwife she knows and trusts to tell of her own experiences.

[fourlittlebirds]

Have you had your well water tested? Is it safe to drink? I wouldn't worry about it then.

My second was born in the water... I hear you about lubrication being washed away, I think that is a legitimate concern, I mean that's exactly why I don't like having sex in water ;) but I have to say that with my waterbirth there was zero tissue damage, whereas with my first birth (not a waterbirth) in which there was lots of oil and perineal massage, I had minor tissue damage that was nonetheless very painful. I suspect that had something to do with my not being able to produce the hormones necessary to make the skin stretchy because I was inhibited and stressed out and it was painful to have someone working away on me down there. Being in the tub was, on the other hand, very relaxing, and I felt like it gave me some privacy and protection from that kind of violation, in other words there was less interference with the hormones doing what they could do to make the birth easier.

It's interesting what your midwife says about all the women she's seen instinctively getting out of the water. I never specifically planned to have a waterbirth, but with my second I did feel better staying in the tub because of the people in the room, so if it were not for that, I don't really know instinctively what I would have done, but I have to wonder, because while I labored in the water throughout transition of my third birth, I did instinctively hop out just before the baby emerged.

Briefly, I have to take issue with the idea that the normal natural process is potentially injurious to the mother unless supplemental procedures (such as perineal massage and support) are done, and I question whether these procedures help at all, and I think that it is likely that they are an interference more than anything. But that's sort of OT for this thread. :) If you're interested in delving further into that issue, do a search, it's been talked a lot in the past here at MDC!

[OtherMother'n'Madre]

Water birth.

The water should definitely not be higher than the mother's body temperature.

a


I haven't read the entire thread so sorry if someone else has mentioned this.

I have heard so many things about the water temperature being in a certain range and that it is a very strict thing to go with. Is it really? I know they say body temperature but for me that doesn't help. I am chronically low on body temp. My "high" is about 96. That's if I'm lucky and it's wamr outside AND inside. I wear jackets and long sleeves most of the summer and freeze in shorts. The doctors check my temp twice to be sure the thermomator is not defective because of how low I am. It's not fair to me to only be able to keep water at body temp. I would freeze to death! I understand not wanting to have the baby in water WAY hotter than the mothers body temp cause of shock and others factors but if I only wanted to labour in water couldn't I make it hotter? I've decided against labouring in water because of this. I have been told by so many people that you can't have it greater than body temp. but like I said, that doesn't work for me. I get too cold too fast and it would be more of a hinderance than anything. Sorry for the ramble.

[pamamidwife]

The rule of thumb is that the water should be as hot or cool as the mother wants it.

[momileigh]

Ok, so I'm just wondering: how many births does your mw do? Is she an older mw?

Wiping off the face before the body is delivered is NOT necessary. Heck, no. In fact, suctioning the baby is a HUGE no-no - not evidence-based, not necessary, not helpful at ALL. No, no, no, no.

Water provides nice counterpressure. No need to oil the perineum. No need to have her fingers in you. No, no, no, no.

I want to stay nice here, and respect your mw, but she sounds like a mw talking from 1979!

I would urge you - really URGE you - to have her contact Barbara Harper from Waterbirth Intl. http://www.waterbirth.org/spa/index.php?option=com_philaform&form_id=5&Itemid=1 with her concerns. This is really vital. Because, I will tell you one thing - her fear about waterbirth and meddling with your labor and the birth of your baby will create a negative experience for you. She will be fighting against what your body will intuitively want to do.

Please. Contact Barbara. By phone. Share with her some of these ideas that your mw has. It just is so...well, dated. Does your mw read anything like Midwifery Today? Does she keep up on her continuing education?

I'm sorry, but there are so many red flags that I don't know where to start. Please contact Barbara. If you really want a waterbirth, your mw needs to be re-educated. Definitely. This will be good not only for your birth, but for other women under her care.

I apologize, again, if I'm out of line, I'm just really concerned about what your midwife believes to be true.

I want to add, also, because I'm just going too far I think, that even the University of Nebraska Medical Center allows waterbirths!


I appreciate your concerns and will look into contacting that person, reading the articles, etc. I think maybe I wasn't clear about some things because some of the "red flags" you specifically mentioned I do not believe are a factor, so let me see... I would guess that she does not do a lot of "continuing" education because she's never had any formal training in the first place. She is totally a lay midwife who apprenticed under another lay midwife. She has read a lot of books. No formal training in the pedigree at all. She may be somewhat from 1979, heck, there might be some 1779 or 1479 in her as well. But when I was talking to her, she just had this amazing quiet confidence that birth is best with minimal interferance. She doesn't even like to catch the baby, she prefers to have the baby's father do it. She only does cervical checks if a woman insists on it. In the "hundreds" (she doesn't keep track but says that the low end is 200) of births she has attended, she has had one hospital transfer, which she says was unnecessary but the couple insisted that they were going to the hospital. In other words, she has never said to anyone, "We should think about transfering to the hospital." She also says that she never sees tears... the last time she saw tears was when she was an apprentice. Although she knows how to suture, she doesn't carry that equipment because she does not ever need it. She's got two natural products to stop hemorages (sp?) and had never opened either of them. She's never seen a "poor outcome" (death, injuries, etc.) to moms or babies. Like I said, she doesn't suction, but she attributes that to the fact that she wipes off the face. When I told her that I read that water-born babies don't generally need suctioning she thought out loud that maybe the water washes the face off a bit. She said that the midwife who never wiped the face ended up suctioning about half the time (with a bulb syringe) so that's why she always does it. She does not carry oxygen or a deLay. She DOES have a fetoscope and a brand-new doppler that she prefers because she says she can't hear quite as well as she used to. (I think she's in her early 40s, MAYBE late 30s even.) She also never breaks water, although she says she "can" do it. (I asked her what interventions she could possibly do, advisable or not.) I think I said before that she isn't "against" waterbirth... she just has never actually seen one. She did not ask the moms who had planned one to get out of the tub, she says they just stood up and delivered or climbed out and delivered on the toilet or floor. But she says that all of them were in bathtubs, and since my hot tub is MUCH bigger than a bathtub, it could be very different. Oh, and finally I should add that when she explained how she avoids tears, she wasn't talking about putting her hands "in" mom or even supporting the perineum manually in any way: she says she just likes to use olive oil and the one time that she coaches mom's pushing is to ask her to blow instead of bear down while the head pops out. This sounded good to me because I blasted my daughter out (under the PUUUUUUSH! coaching of the hospital staff) and her head and body came out all in one shot. I had a 2nd degree tear that the doctor would only say "isn't as big as an episiotomy" so I thought I got off easy. Anyway, this midwife is the least interventionist of the three in the area that I know. The "best" midwife in our area (who I actually think is great, she just charges a bit too much for me) did three of my friends' births: one had a 2nd degree tear and oxygen was administered to the baby, another was a hospital transfer and vacuum extraction, the third was a happy-healthy-easy waterbirth. (All three were "supposed" to be waterbirths, only the last one was.) So, right there, my mw beats those stats with two hands tied behind her back. I should add that amazingly she says she would not recommend hospital transfer for prolapsed cord... she says she can just put that cord right back where it came from if need be. She did that at the breech twins delivery (one was a footling, the other frank). She says the only way she'd ever "send" someone to the hospital would be for placenta previa or abrutia. When I told her I'd have a doula present, at the very first she was concerned, because she said, "She might think I'm not doing enough." When I explained that my doula and I had gone through the same doula training, which is very, very anti-interventionist, she became immediately supportive. (As doulas we had all the "cons" of every possible intervention pounded into our heads, and I'll be darned if I have trouble remembering any pros to most of them.) Anyway enough rambling! And really I do appreciate the concerns and will look into the ones that I feel are important, for sure. I have quite a while to go yet, and she has invited me to assist on three upcoming births, so I'll get to see her in action (or inaction) as well. :)

[momileigh]

Blueviolet, just wanted to add that I hear you about sex in water... how can that POSSIBLY be good?!? Please no one answer that. (Tried it once, that was more than enough thank you)

[pamamidwife]

Leigh, I'm sorry to have questioned your midwife the way I did. Looking back, I don't think it was appropriate. :)

[momileigh]

That's OK, it gave me a chance to re-evaluate how I feel about her as well. Dd was born in a hospital and this mw is definitely the other extreme entirely, and I need to be sure that I feel comfortable with her. Others questioning her helps me hash that out so don't feel bad! I think it is very easy to make snap judgments online with the limited info we are given; I know I do it.

[MyCalling]

Friday the 25th I birthed my 3rd and 4th water babies, boy/girl twins. When my son's head was born he openned his eyes and looked around while his body was still inside of me. My midwives had never witnesses a baby doing that. They say babies usually keep their eyes closed and look alseep at that point.

Is this common in anyone elses experiences? Everyone who saw said it was awesome...I couldn't see since his sister was still inside of me so my belly was too large. There was a picture taken so we are waiting to see if it comes out with his eyes open.

[cwaddick]

I'm planning my waterbirth (my 2nd: <beaming with pride>). I hadn't seen this subtopic elsewhere in the thread, so I thought I'd add:

Being in the water changes your experience of labor. If you are "early" in labor, being in the water can slow the progression of labor, causing your cervix to dilate more slowly. If you are "late" in labor, being in the water can moderate the pain of your labor contractions, making severely or even moderately painful contractions less painful.

The rule of thumb is that you get in the tub when your cervix has dilated to 8 cm or greater. Before the cervix has dilated to 8 cm, generally, being in the water will slow cervical dilation and slow contractions. ... I can't think of a good reason to slow labor down, but I'm sure it is helpful for something... maybe to make sure your DH gets home from work in time to be at the birth.

After the cervix has dilated to (or past) 8 cm, the water generally eases labor, but does not slow the progression of labor. It is for this reason that waterbirth is loved most. For a terrestrial birth, I can think of few comparable interventions that similarly ease labor (i.e. the hot rice sock applied to the lower back)... but that is not what this thread is about.

For the pushing stage, when the woman births the baby, the main benefit of being in tub is that the water relaxes the perenial tissue allowing the woman to birth the baby with greater ease. I can think of comparable interventions for terrestial birth (i.e. hot oil perenial massage), but these actions are not as dramatic as submerging your whole body in the water.

Finally, I haven't heard much about staying in the water after the birth. After my baby was born, I held him/her for over 10 minutes with those little feet in the water, and we just enjoyed the moment. Then, the midwives and my husband insisted that I look to see if the baby was a boy or a girl... and then, I held the baby for a while longer before I birthed the placenta. By that time, I was ready to be out of the water. Being in the tub with my newborn relaxed and comforted me and my baby.

-- Caitlin

[pamamidwife]

I usually tell women to get in the tub whenever they want. Some women find incredible relief before ever being 8cm (and not to mention the fact that I don't routinely check women, so I never know where they're at) without it slowing labor down. :)

[sarajane]

8 cm? Do you have to wait that long? I am planning a waterbirth and haven't even thought of this really. Just figured I could be in and out whenever I wanted and it not hurt anything. I wouldn't think I would get in during very early labor but I guess to me 8 cm sounds like a long time to wait. I have never given birth before so have no clue how long it takes to get to 8 or what it feels like.

I was also wondering if maybe I might get too hot in the tub. I am so hot all the time that I am worried a hot tub might make me get over heated. But then again, when I take a bath sometimes I get cold but the bath tub doesn't even cover my belly very much so maybe that is why I get cold.

[pamamidwife]

Sara, I'd suggest you go with what feels right for you - both in regards to when to get into the tub as well as the temperature. :)

[Alexander]

On a TV program I saw of a French Dr., he allowed the ladies under his care to get into the pool as soon as they began to feel they needed, (before excessive pain).

We did this for my children, and the relief was substantial. There is no point in waiting till the baby is about to drop! The water birth experience is not just for the child, but for the mother too.

Hope this helps

a