Scared about being induced early

[babylove2007]

I am a long-cycled lady (35 days plus; the cycle I got pg would have been 40). I went to my first OB appointment with my FertilityFriend chart and everything, with a nice temp rise after Day 26, a due date of 9/19/07, and distinctly INFERTILE CM on Days 14-21. However, they ignored it and still calculated my due dates by LMP so I was a week and a half ahead, due Sept 9th.

Went for an ultrasound at what they insisted was 11 weeks even though I knew it was 10, and surprise-surprise, they couldn't do the NT scan (I didn't really want all these tests, but they don't offer much choice here) as I was too early. U/S showed the baby measuring right in line with my FF chart and O date. so I came back a week and a half later and they did the NT.

For some reason, however, the dating was still off although that should have been my dating scan. Even though the chart distinctly read "12 weeks 4 days", they sent the info to my doc with the due date EARLIER than it was with my LMP, Sept 7th. I told the doc there was no way that could be, since the baby was obviously measuring behind his little "wheel." So he said "you know what, you're right" and figured the date as Sept 19th, as FF says.

But then he said, "But we'll still go by your LMP and wait til your 20-week u/s to determine the due date. You're due Sept. 9th." :dizzy:

I'm just scared that they are determined to have me deliver around Sept 9th, which realistically will only be 38 weeks or so for me. NJ is a very litigous and malpractice-oriented state, so the forced C-section rate is through the roof. I have heard stories of babies being induced prematurely, and if the woman refuses, the doctor simply refuses to see her.

Should I be worried, or is it realistic to expect that they will listen to me at 20weeks? The conspiracy theorist in me is thinking that perhaps the doc isn't around in late September and wants to schedule this?

[mothragirl]

can you get a new dr? they aren't listening to you and you're employing them.

[babylove2007]

I can, but it's very difficult to get an appointment in this town and I had to go through heck just to find this guy. Most practices are very overcrowded with several weeks' wait. Plus I haven't told work yet that I'm pg (variety of reasons, that's for another post), and this is one of the few places that is accommodating me with evening hours.

However, if they still pull this even after the next scan, then I'll gladly go through the trouble of switching.

[alegna]

You need to either learn to stand up to this OB now or find a midwife pronto. Why are you having tests you don't want? There is always a choice. Say No.

good luck!

-Angela

[Izzy's Mom]

And if you do switch then I personally would revise your "lmp date" to fall in line with what you know your date of ovulation to be - so that your due date calculated by lmp is what you think it should be - honestly that might be easier than continuing to argue with a doc who just won't listen.

[babylove2007]

You need to either learn to stand up to this OB now or find a midwife pronto. Why are you having tests you don't want? There is always a choice. Say No.

good luck!

-Angela

Thanks. I was told that in my state the NT is "mandated," and the u/s techs even told me that if the doctor requests it, then it's not up to the patient not to go. ???? Maybe they were full of it too?? I'm living in a state where doctors are leaving in droves due to malpractice suits and insurance costs, so both here and in NY, much testing is apparently mandated by state law (HIV in NY; NT scan and triple-screen in NJ).

I wonder if switching to a midwife would help? Unless they are under the same liability issues.

[Jenlaana]

I would VERY strongly urge you to get in touch with your local ICAN chapter, and/or some other form of birth activists that are familiar with the laws in your area. Even if you're not a VBAC or worried about getting sectioned, they have a very comprehensive collection of information on exactly what IS legally required and what is not.

I had a pediatrician lie flat out to me and tell me I had to get some infant tests done because not to do so was against the law, and found out later that was utter garbage. (I researched the heck out of pg but not pediatrics)

Its unfortunate, but the medical community often gets confused between "protocol" and "law", ya know? I would be VERY suprised if you could not refuse a test. Its your body and last I checked, the US is still a free country.

However, you will probably loose your OB for going against the grain. I refused a scheduled cesarean and my OB kicked me at 40 weeks (which was illegal and they should have lost their licence over it, but I didn't persue it unfortunately)

[babylove2007]

Jelaana--Thanks. What does ICAN stand for? I'd love to know what my rights really are, since NY and NJ act like real medical dictatorships sometimes! I'm definitely not a VBAC as this is my first--I just want to have my first baby naturally!! :)

I'm curious what you did when your OB kicked you at 40 weeks? Who assisted your birth, or was it unassisted? Were you able to get a last-minute doula?

[Mumof3Nic]

I fired my OB after my third visit this pregnancy.. much for the same reasons you did. They listened to me about my cycle being longer because I was VERY adamant about it but I was told that they would only "let" me go to 41 weeks (seems to be the norm here :irked:). The doctor refused to budge on ANY of my requests for labor and delivery telling me they were unrealistic at best and she was the most "liberal" doctor in their practice. I was around 15 weeks for that appointment and I walked out of there feeling like I had no other options with them. I was hurt and disappointed.. this baby is my fourth and I was induced with all of my previous 3, I didn't want a repeat experience and this practice was doing ALL it could just so that I would. After that visit I realised that I was uncomfortable with going there and had been all along. I called a natural family practice that same day at the urging of my best friend. They got me in asap for an interview with the doctor and I made the switch to him. He LISTENS to me.. as sad as it sounds I've never had that with any of my pregnancies. I urge you to find someone else... there are plenty of offices available with evening and weekend hours. It's still plenty early to find someone new and it can only benefit and ease your mind for the rest of your pregnancy. Post something in the FYT area I'm sure you'll get at least a couple of referrals to either a doctor or a midwife. My new doctor firmly believes in being open and honest with his patients.. he welcomes all questions I can come up with and when I've apologised for being too inquisitive he's told me he would much rather me be like that than not at all because it will ease my mind and make labor go more smoothly. Something else I noticed when I switched to him.. he puts me at ease as soon as he walks in the door. I feel like we're "old friends" and I've only seen him 3 times.

[alegna]

Thanks. I was told that in my state the NT is "mandated," and the u/s techs even told me that if the doctor requests it, then it's not up to the patient not to go. ???? Maybe they were full of it too?? I'm living in a state where doctors are leaving in droves due to malpractice suits and insurance costs, so both here and in NY, much testing is apparently mandated by state law (HIV in NY; NT scan and triple-screen in NJ).

I wonder if switching to a midwife would help? Unless they are under the same liability issues.


Total and complete BS. You are the consumer and the patient (as long as you're with an OB you're a patient, even though you're not sick) You can refuse ANYTHING.

A midwife would be better. A homebirth midwife at least.

-Angela

[LizzyQ]

I agree with the PP's- and I would switch to a midwife. I made the switch at 28 weeks from an OB, who was not as nearly as bad as yours. If you aren't high-risk, you don't need an OB.

I don't know where in NJ you are, but here is a link to the birthing center: http://www.childbirthcenter.org/cbc/

[rock_dr]

And if you do switch then I personally would revise your "lmp date" to fall in line with what you know your date of ovulation to be - so that your due date calculated by lmp is what you think it should be - honestly that might be easier than continuing to argue with a doc who just won't listen.

that's what I did - take 14 days off your ovulation date and use that. But I agree with pp, these are major warning signs.

[rebelbets]

I was told that in my state the NT is "mandated," and the u/s techs even told me that if the doctor requests it, then it's not up to the patient not to go. ???? Maybe they were full of it too??

UGH. They were absolutely full of it. They can't force you to have any tests of any type.

If it continues, and you decide to stay with the OB, I would lie about my LMP date so that it "matched" up with my O date.

[Daisie125]

Seriously RUN from that doctor. NO tests are mandated/required by law or otherwise. You have the right to deny ANY and ALL test, procedures, blood draws... etc. If they are lying to you about that, imagine what else they are going to lie about.

[babylove2007]

Yeah, it was strange--the only thing we were given a "right to decline" on was HIV. It seemed odd that they would have a greater need to know whether the baby is disabled than whether the mother is HIV+. I wonder why the distinction??

I just hope that if this doesn't work out, then the next doctor won't be a strict 28-day cycle person. Then again, I hadn't thought about adjusting the LMP date. Great idea!! :loveeyes: :wink

[k9sarchik]

Wow, I just looked up Colorado to see if the HIV test was mandatory for newborns since the CNM at Kaiser told me it was. She LIED! I wasn't going to do the HIV test but she told me that if I didn't that they would automatically have to draw blood from the baby. I took the test and it did come up negative thank goodness! I found an article where pregnancy can give a false positive on an HIV test. Holy crap! That pisses me off.

Thank goodness I have switched to a midwife.

babylove2007~ really do your research and find either another Dr. and/or midwife!! Especially since you are being subjected to BS!

[alegna]

Yeah, it was strange--the only thing we were given a "right to decline" on was HIV. It seemed odd that they would have a greater need to know whether the baby is disabled than whether the mother is HIV+. I wonder why the distinction??

I just hope that if this doesn't work out, then the next doctor won't be a strict 28-day cycle person. Then again, I hadn't thought about adjusting the LMP date. Great idea!! :loveeyes: :wink

I would never stay with a provider who lied to me.

-Angela

[wildthing]

Here is what I think is happening a lot of the times someone is told that something is "law"....

There are many tests and procedures that are required TO BE OFFERED by law. For example, MSAFP or Quad Screen....this is required to be offered to all pregnant women, by law. The practitioner must offer it. But the decision is always up to the mother whether or not to have it done. The same with other tests, such as routine u/s. I am not sure it is law to offer it, it may just be "standard of care", but it is up to the mother to make the decision.

This also carries over into birth and the newborn procedures. Certain things are required to be offered, but the parent decides which is appropriate and necessary for their situation.

I have heard that it is "law" and that in NY the hospital will call Child Protective Services on a parent for refusing certain things in the newborn period...but I am wondering if anyone has personal experience challenging this assertion. I don't mean "It happened to a friend of mine.", but actual first hand accounts.

[crittersmom]

A similar thing is happening to me.My LMP was actually in June but I was BFing when I concieved so my cycles were nontraditional.According to LMP I am way overdue:wink but I had an U/S at about 20 weeks that says I'm not due until May.When I go in to the Dr I have to keep reminding them that they need to base it on U/S and fundal hieght measurements the LMP is way inaccurate.
You don't have to go through any testing but you will have to stand strong against alot of flack for it.
Good luck! congrats on your first baby!

[wildthing]

Oh, I wanted to add.....let them try to base mine off my LMP...it was April 4th, 2001. Enjoy! :lol

[babylove2007]

Well thanks for the good vibes ladies--they actually changed my due date this evening at my appointment, right after this post!!! :wink It was right in line with my FF software and the U/S. Maybe there is hope after all. I am still going to carefully look into this practice though, and if induction or scheduled C is any part of it, then I am moving on.

I have heard that it is "law" and that in NY the hospital will call Child Protective Services on a parent for refusing certain things in the newborn period...

Interesting that this was mentioned...Actually, I used to work with kids, and I recall that each kid supposedly "had" to be vaxed. People working with kids (teachers, counselors, etc) are considered "mandated reporters" and in NY they often imply that nonvaxing is a "reportable" offense! :irked: I never personally saw it get called in however.

[Shelsi]

Well thanks for the good vibes ladies--they actually changed my due date this evening at my appointment, right after this post!!! :wink It was right in line with my FF software and the U/S. Maybe there is hope after all. I am still going to carefully look into this practice though, and if induction or scheduled C is any part of it, then I am moving on.



Interesting that this was mentioned...Actually, I used to work with kids, and I recall that each kid supposedly "had" to be vaxed. People working with kids (teachers, counselors, etc) are considered "mandated reporters" and in NY they often imply that nonvaxing is a "reportable" offense! :irked: I never personally saw it get called in however.

FYI, New York has both religious and medical exemptions for vaccinations. But lots of states strong arm people into vaxing.

As for the doc issue I think you're being way too nice to these people. This is YOUR care and they're not doing it correctly. You shouldn't have to wait and see and hope they don't do something...you should trust them enough to know they won't do something unnecessary. Seriously, call some midwives and just interview them. You don't even have to change providers yet, just interview them and see how you feel after that. FWIW, I o'd on cycle day 26 this cycle as well (which is actually early for me! lol) and when I was interviewing midwives there was actually one who wouldn't believe my date, she was immediately crossed off my list. If she doesn't even understand charting, which is really quite basic in regards to fertility, what else does she not understand??

[Therese's Mommy]

I haven't read all of the replies, but if they don't listen to you at the 20wk I would look for another dr. My OB tried to change my due date based on an early u/s. I was furious that he wouldn't listen to me. I do ovulate around day 14 so the due date I get from my fertility chart is in line with their useless wheel. It didn't matter to him and he wouldn't discuss it (his reason for blowing me off was that I was still nursing when I got pg). That was the last of many straws and we left. With my new dr I was very upfront as to why I was there. I had seen a perinatalogist in the interim and she agreed that the due date should not be changed. My new dr hasn't even suggested it. I say, if they won't listen, find someone who will.

Good luck!!!

Beth

[pookel]

I don't get why doctors get so hung up on the LMP. I had two periods during my ectopic pregnancy, and when they asked about my last period, I said, "about three weeks ago" and they kept assuming that meant I had just gotten pregnant, even though I kept telling them it had to be longer than that. Finally I pointed out directly to the OB that I was at *least* 10 weeks pregnant, regardless of the period, and she said "how do you know?" I said, "Because the last time we had sex was two months ago." Then she believed me. :p

My doctor for this pregnancy had me do an early u/s and based the dates on that (it corresponded with my guess on when I conceived - again, I knew when we had sex but not when my period was!), but seemed unwilling to believe that my period could have been anything but two weeks before that. Now, I don't know my dates for sure, but I *know* my last period started no less than a week before the conception date. Apparently I ovulate early.

Don't doctors know how much variation there is in women's cycles?

Btw, I second the advice of switching to a new doctor and giving him different dates. If you feel uncomfortable with lying, just say, "I know my due date is Sept. 19," and let him calculate the supposed LMP from that.

[babylove2007]

don't get why doctors get so hung up on the LMP.

:truedat:

I personally think it's a rather archaic way of calculating it and shouldn't be the default test anymore, especially since we have all this technology and info allowing us to know when we ovulate. The wheel goes back to the 50's when pregnancies were also calculated in months, not weeks. Of course, if the pregnancy is unexpected or the woman doesn't know when she ovulated, then it might be a way of guessing, but if she knows, I say they should believe her!!

I wonder what they did way back when, if a woman had a long cycle but they had only the wheel to figure her due date??

[brendag]

Isn't there something where if you refuse a test or go against medical advice, all you would need to do was sign a document stating that you assume the risks from not doing that particular medical test/procedure???

If you find out they're lying to you, I'd find someone knew as soon as you could.

Good luck!

[babylove2007]

Isn't there something where if you refuse a test or go against medical advice, all you would need to do was sign a document stating that you assume the risks from not doing that particular medical test/procedure???

We had to do that with HIV, but not with anything else. Bizarre.

Mainly the people who were saying the test was mandatory were the ultrasound folks, and we don't have a choice in switching out of there since our town has only one hospital.

I probably am being too nice here as someone said, but I am extremely relieved that they at least changed my dates--and that was without me having to put my foot down.

[Lady Lilya]

I talked to my MW about this. I have long cycles too. I know the date I conceived, and using that date I get a due date about 2 weeks later than my LMP due date. I told her that I feel the due date is too early. She said not to worry, because we have lots of leeway. If I go late, we will just observe carefully.