Bangkok, anyone?

[majikfaerie]

HI, just wanting to know if there are other MDC mamas in BKK,
I'd really love to connect.

Also very curious to know what are the laws regarding child abuse here; I saw one of my neighbours beating his children and I'm not even sure if its illegal here.

[Gunter]

i will be in northern thailand around september through november of this year. i am doing training for traditional birth attendant. how is the birth scene over there? are mid-wives and homebirths popular?

[majikfaerie]

How did you find out about the birth training? I'm really interested in this kind of stuff.
I dont really know how local attitudes are, but I recently attended a homebirth in southern thailand and I met the staff in the local hospital before hand and they were really interested, and even suggested that I might like to work as a MW in the hospital. it seemed they needed one.

[wobbema]

Hi there,

I´ve been living in Thailand for quite some years now (6 or 7 or so), but only from october till april every year. we used to live in phuket for a while and have moved to koh samui 2 years ago.
I am very surprised to hear about a home-birth here.
Well, i figure that some people all over the world choose for home-births sometimes, but as far as i know, it is very rare in thailand.
A lot of thai gynaecologists press the pregnant ladies to choose for a caesarean. A lot of the wealthy thai choose for CB. I know that the doctors in private hospitals get a lot of more money for the CB than for a natural birth.
A lot of the wealthy Thai choose for formula in stead of BM, and they drink formula themselves when they are pregnant and if they choose to BF, there is a special formula for BF-moms as well.
All the Thai people I met were very enthousiastic that i BF my DS, `just like the Thai people used to do`....
Co-sleeping is very normal in Thailand and especially people in the provinces find Bf and Co-sleeping very normal still. family bonds are usually strong here.
The people from the south have not many good comments about the people from North East (Isaan), bc a lot of people from Isaan come and work in the south and if they have kids, they usually leave them behind. Or when they get kids while being in the south, they will usually bring the new baby to the north (to grandparents or a sister or so), bc they can´t afford to stop working.
Thai people work till they give birth, after that they have 3 months long 70% of their income while not working, but a lot of people in tourism live mainly on their tips so they can´t afford stopping, and will start asap. No BF then....

The Thai people usually love babies and hold them all the time, but the first weeks - months they keep them in the house and they are very protective.
Funny things: a BF mom cannot walk in the rain, a kid can eat fish as soon as he can say ´fish ´ (plaa), when they can roll over, a book and a glass of water are put on their back. the book bc this will make them good students, the water bc they will be able to remain a cool heart in hot situations (not become angry)

well, my DS is calling for me, gotta go.

love to meet up in BKK end oct - begin nov

angela

[majikfaerie]

Actually, the homebirth I attended was not a Thai family, but some backpackers.
and yeah, i've seen some strange practices too.
I have, however, seen many women at their work in shops and such with a baby on the breast.
My favourite fruit-shake woman in the night market was BFing while running her stall. But yeah, it is rare, and generally Thai people are obsessed with eating "fortified" dairy stuff and powdered formulas. anyone who can afford it drinks it and feeds it to their children.
And I really worry about some of them; many of the brands have several different qualities - there will be a regular and a Gold variety, about twice the cost, and with less nutrients.
babies die from inadequate formula, and not just in the 3rd world where we dont hear about it! recently there was a huge scandal in Germany where a lot of babies got sick and some even died from an infant formula that was missing some vital nutrient that the manufacturers had taken out to make it Kosher, and saved money by not putting in an expensive alternative!

[MamaRabbit]

I'm in Bangkok. Lived here 6 years already! In Bangkok, well in all of Thailand, there are no homebirth midwives. At least farang that I know of. I'm doing self study for now, will apprentice in the US and then come back to offer for other women, Thai or farang. I asked a Thai nurse friend of mine about it and she said they're all too scared of homebirth. The Thai midwives (usually RN + 3mo L&D) are not autonomous either. I could go on and on. C-section rates at the "best" hospitals are 90%+. Thai docs convince women to get them for a variety of reasons, with a favorite being that "natural birth ruins you down there and Thai men like it tight."

Homebirths still happen a lot outside of the big cities and it's usually a traditional midwife/wise=woman. I'm a doula and CBE and other than myself I only know of 2 other homebirths in the last 5 years. (I'd love to hear about the traditional midwife training).

Child abuse. It's illegal as far as I know, but what is considered abusive is a whole other thing. The legal processes here are crazy.

[Gunter]

I'm in Bangkok. Lived here 6 years already! In Bangkok, well in all of Thailand, there are no homebirth midwives. At least farang that I know of. I'm doing self study for now, will apprentice in the US and then come back to offer for other women, Thai or farang. I asked a Thai nurse friend of mine about it and she said they're all too scared of homebirth. The Thai midwives (usually RN + 3mo L&D) are not autonomous either. I could go on and on. C-section rates at the "best" hospitals are 90%+. Thai docs convince women to get them for a variety of reasons, with a favorite being that "natural birth ruins you down there and Thai men like it tight."

Homebirths still happen a lot outside of the big cities and it's usually a traditional midwife/wise=woman. I'm a doula and CBE and other than myself I only know of 2 other homebirths in the last 5 years. (I'd love to hear about the traditional midwife training).

Child abuse. It's illegal as far as I know, but what is considered abusive is a whole other thing. The legal processes here are crazy.

sooooo interesting. can i contact you if i am in bangkok for a little while?

[MamaRabbit]

Sure, just PM me when you're coming and I'll give you my phone number. :thumb

[Gunter]

Sure, just PM me when you're coming and I'll give you my phone number. :thumb

awesome!!! i totally will. i fly in around september 1st.

[achooreno]

Hey Gunter! This is totally OT...(although I'm soo glad I got to read this thread because I'm really interested in relocating overseas, esp. India ha hah haa)

First, I want to say that I'm so sad to have missed your garage sale, I heard it was awesome from Cait...I heard that there were cloth dipes there too, soo bummed!!

Also, wanted to say that we need to stay in touch..

well, won't make this long since it's OT

from these posts it sounds like you will have your work cut out for you...:D

[wobbema]

Sure, just PM me when you're coming and I'll give you my phone number. :thumb

when i'll ever have a 2nd baby and ur still in BKK, i want u as my doula!!!!
seriously, i spend 6 months a year in THai now (have been doing this for 7 years or so) and am freaking out of the idea of having to deliver with a thai doc. i know all the stories,.... aaaagh!!
so it's good to know you.
hope to meet you when i'll be in bkk oct 30

[MamaRabbit]

I'll be here a long time, so let me know!

[majikfaerie]

mamarabbit, slightly OT, but did you happen to do a Vipassana recently and meet an Israeli girl called Ronnie?

[MamaRabbit]

nope, I'm too huge pregnant to go anywhere... I"ve basically been in my apartment for the past 6 weeks or so and limited before then.

[majikfaerie]

must be another american doula living in BKK then!
I see you're having twins... homebirth by any chance?

[MamaRabbit]

You're right! My doula friend (American and pregnant!) just called me to tell me about it and mentioned that someone asked if it was me. Small world!

Yes, we're doing an unassisted homebirth if all goes to plan.

[majikfaerie]

wow, really small world!
Ronnie was actually our nanny, and became one of my best friends, and was even my assistant at a birth in Cambodia recently

[*Devon*]

Hi Ladies!

I am planning to travel to Thailand in the fall, I'll probably arrive in early to mid-October, and stay for a few months. I am definitely going to PM you all with questions, if that's ok?

I hope I can meet some MDC mamas while I'm there!

[Gunter]

Hi Ladies!

I am planning to travel to Thailand in the fall, I'll probably arrive in early to mid-October, and stay for a few months. I am definitely going to PM you all with questions, if that's ok?

I hope I can meet some MDC mamas while I'm there!

i would love to meet up when we are there, too!

stacy

[mamaofprincesses]

I'm not in Bangkok, but I am in Thailand. . .Khon Kaen to be exact. We teach English. We have two daughters, DD1 is almost three and DD2 is four months. She was born at the local university hospital. If anyone's interested in reading a birth story from Thailand, here's a link:

http://chronicallysleepdeprived.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html

I'm really curious about the homebirths - we considered it, but we were afraid it would cause trouble in getting the birth certificate and therefore, a passport. I'd love to hear how it goes.

There are frequent discussions of births (natural and otherwise) and various hospitals and doctors on the Family and Children forum at thaivisa.com.

Nice to "meet" you all.

[MamaRabbit]

I've had 3 born at home in Bangkok.

For my son born at home, I had a letter from my OB saying I'd been pregnant and DS was my baby. Had pediatrician write a letter stating weight, etc. when we took him in two days later.

For my twins born at home, I only got a letter for each baby from the pediatrician and totally skipped the OB letter.

Then you go to the district that the baby was born in. Our house is in the Bangna district of Bangkok, so we went to that office. We took parent passports, DH's work permit, proof of ownership of our condo (or your landlord), letters from doctors, and that's it. It helps to take a Thai friend with you who can help with the usually beaurocracy.

As long as you do this to get your Thai birth certificate, you're fine. THen we had the BC translated and did the usual passport application from there. No problems at all. PM me if you want my number and we can talk!

[Gunter]

looks like i may not be coming to thailand, after all. we are in bali, indonesia now working at a birth center here. i don't have plans to leave anytime soon so thailand won't be on the agenda. sorry to miss out on meeting you all!

[doriansmummy]

My brother is going over to Thailand to go to a school to learn to teach English over there. He wants to live at least 1-2 years if not longer over there. I cant remember where the school is right now. Anyone over there know of cheap places to live that are safe etc or maybe someone on here has a place to let him stay? I have to say I am a bit worried about him going over there.

Any tips for him?
Thank you so much!
Erin

[MamaRabbit]

There are lots of schools here, and for the most part, it's pretty much safe to live anywhere. Lots of cheap options. It's a great, fun place to live, so no need to worry! We love it here, and this is year #7 for us. Let me know if you have any questions... (from another Erin ;) )

[doriansmummy]

He is going to be going to a school in Ban Phe anyone know anything about there?
Or live there?
He is also vegan will that be hard?

Thanks for the message Erin! I like your name. :lol

[franjapany]

Hello, everybody!

I hope this thread is still active and someone is going to read this...
I live in Phuket and I am pregnant. That's that;) Actually I am only in week 3, but I've kind of known that I would get pregnant at this time for five months now, so it didn't exactly come as a complete surprise.
Anyway, I'm thrilled and excited and a little weary - pretty much like anyone would be who is pregnant for the first time I guess.

I know it is early days, but I am a planner and I am determined to have my child at home. I just started to do some research on the web and am rather worried to find so little on midwives in Thailand...

Any advice would help heaps! I've read through this thread and I think I might be at the right address here.
I am not scared of having a home birth and neither is my partner. I'm a lot more scared of having my baby in a hospital where I get treated like a patient, lying on the back like a beetle and having to give birth 'on schedule'. Also I heard a lot of stories about doctors recommending ceasarians or giving epiosotomy as standard procedure. Scary!

I've started reading a lot about natural child birth and homeopathic treatment in pregnancy, as this is pretty much everything I can do at the moment, being far from Europe. How easy it would be to just open the yellow pages and find I don't know how many midwives... :innocent

However, for now I am working full time - let's see how long I will be able to keep that up ;)

Hope to get some replies from you experienced mommies,
:)

fran

[MamaRabbit]

Thai midwives don't do homebirths because they are not autonomous. Foreign midwives are not licensed to practice. Soooo, you either have to find a foreign midwife willing to attend you anyway, and as far as I know (I'm a doula, childbirth educator, and midwifery student), there are no midwives willing to attend homebirth.

Some of us go to Samitivej Hospital in Bangkok and use their birthing suites with birth tubs and take a doula along. Others do unassisted birth. I've doulaed at hospital and UC births and at times act as a monitrice. Others want me there with my limited knowledge thinking it's better than no midwife at all. I don't mind but I spell out exactly what I do and don't know and will and will not do as my midwifery training is still in its infancy.

That said, read up and be willing to consider options and make more options if you have to. Feel free to give me a call any time!! I'll PM you my phone #.

[franjapany]

Okay, that doesn't sound too promising. Anyway, I'm willing to go 'illegal' if need be;)
Thanks for that, I will give you a call sometime soon!! So nice of you :)

fran

[majikfaerie]

Hi Franjapani,
I have been living in Thailand and attending homebirths, but I'm not there anymore...
I would be quite wary of going into a Thai hospital, but also, feel free to contact me with any questions.
I have also 'attended' births by phone; really as more of a UC support person in that case.
Anyway, there is a chance I might be back in Thailand about the time you are due (June?), so keep in touch!
and definately contact mamarabbit; she's great :)

[franjapany]

hi majikfairie,

that sounds great...!! I actually calculated my due date sometime between 22. and 26. of June - but we all know what it's like: they come whenever they are ready ;) (I came two weeks early).

So please do keep in touch! And I will certainly contact mammarabbit sometime soon. At the moment I'm still working six days a week and sometimes finish after 10 pm, so there are not too many opportunities to sit down and have a quiet little chat on the phone with noone overhearing.

So long, thanks for your support already! It's great to know there are people like you out there!

fran

[MamaRabbit]

10pm? I'm lucky if I'm in bed by 1am! But yeah, work schedules here can suck.

[majikfaerie]

cool, Fran, well, be in touch, coz I'll be in China in May but should be around Thailand in early June. You can PM me to get my email if you like.

[doriansmummy]

He is going to be going to a school in Ban Phe anyone know anything about there?
Or live there?
He is also vegan will that be hard?

Thanks for the message Erin! I like your name. :lol

He left today for Bangkok.:( He will be gone for around a year he says or more.. Im gonna miss him, I know he will have so much fun though. He will be over there teaching english.

I am also alittle scared safety wise for him. Can anyone rest my fears?

[franjapany]

Hey doriansmummy!

please relax, Thailand is not a dangerous country at all. At least not more dangerous than any place you would consider safe. Around 90% of the population here are buddhist, so the level of violence is rather low.

My worst experience: burglars broke into our house while we were sleeping and took EVERYTHING valuable enough to sell - but we didn't even hear them. Okay, so three laptops and loads of other electronic gear, jewellery (mostly with more sentimental than monetary value) is lost to us now. It was a hard blow. But in the end nothing happened to us, did it? They even left our passports and documents and credit cards. Nobody slit our throats or hurt us is any way other than stealing from us.

So stop worrying about your brother, he'll be fine. Stop worrying anyhow, or the law of attraction might make your worries come true. Believe in the good stuff, it's better for you and everybody around you :)

f

[MamaRabbit]

He'll be fine. As long as he stays away from areas where crime is higher, just like you would anywhere else in the world. Seedy bars, dark alleys, etc. :lol

We've lived here over 6 years and had no problems.

[doriansmummy]

Thanks mamas!
He is in Ban Phe now and is really enjoying it there, thats were his school is. He said Bangkok was too busy for him, and that he thought more people would know common English words. It sounds like he may have got ripped off on a suit (not sure yet) but he paid $300 for some cashmere suit, and he said he has learned from others at the school it may not be what he had picked or something like that? He got it on Buddha day.

[majikfaerie]

Thanks mamas!
He is in Ban Phe now and is really enjoying it there, thats were his school is. He said Bangkok was too busy for him, and that he thought more people would know common English words. It sounds like he may have got ripped off on a suit (not sure yet) but he paid $300 for some cashmere suit, and he said he has learned from others at the school it may not be what he had picked or something like that? He got it on Buddha day.
well, there's no point in meboaning it.
very likely he paid $300 for a suit he could have bargained down to $200, but that's not getting ripped off.
think of it like you buy something for $20 in walmart, and the next day you see the same thing for $15 in Target. walmart didn't cheat you (well, they did, because being cheated is inherent in shopping at walmart), you just paid more than you might have. but you still got an item at a price you were willing to pay.

In Thailand things are priced based on what people are willing to pay in a much more honest way than in the west. in the west, they have some market analysys guys who work out that folk will pay $5 for a big bag of candy just before halloween, even if said candy normally retails for $3, and even if they could still sell it for $1 and not make a loss. So they charge $5, and that's what we pay.

but in the east, they have an item that is worth $1, they want to sell it for at least $2, preferrably $3. but they ask $7, because bargaining is a cultural thing. then you bargain them down to $4, because you're a rich westerner. your thai neighbour gets it down to $3. maybe if you're really good, and convince the seller you're desperately poor, they'll let you have it for $2.

Sometimes I've just been too stuffed to bother to bargain, and I can afford the 50 cents or whatever it is, so i just pay the asking price, and usually the seller will just give me a discount, or throw in extra.

(except in heavy tourist areas) the locals aren't really out to rip you off. and whatever suit your son bought, no matter if he paid 10x what he might have, its still probably cheaper than back home.

[Mali]

Don't know if anyone is still reading this thread but figured I'd give a shout out anyway - I love "meeting" others with Thailand connections. I lived in BKK for about for years teaching english (surprise, surprise!). While there I met my now hubby and our first daughter was born there. We delivered at Bumrungrad, all natural and the Thai nurses attedning were all quite taken aback when I absolutely refused to deliver on my back but at least no one tried to get me to have an unecesary c-section. Anyway, I'm rambling ... we moved to the US to Maine where I grew up in march of '06 for a variety of reasons that I won't go into here! DD #2 was born here in Maine this past march, another wonderful natural delivery with a wonderful midwife. We are going back for about 5 weeks at the end of January for the first time since we left. We will spend some time in BKK, much in the south with my husband's family who are dying to see the girls, and hopefully a little time in Chaing Mai where we have some friends. I am very excited to go back, I have missed so many things about living in Thailand and there have been so many challenges trying to settle in the US again. Its great to hear about others who have chosen to settle in Thailand with families - it gives me hope that maybe we can make it work one day too.
Those of you with kids, do you mind me asking what you do about school, or plan to do if the kids are too young? Also (and this is rather embarassing considering I lived there for 4 years and am married to a Thai man!) does anyone have any helpful suggestions with the language? I have basic Thai down but I need to get beyond the farang tourist Thai and really learn to communicate. My Thai skills actually deteriorated once I met my husband b/c it was always so much easier to have him take care of things. But I really need to just get over the hump and really learn those damn tones. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Apolgies for this really long ramble, just nice to talk to other Thailand lovers!

[majikfaerie]

Hi mali :)

about learning thai, best thing would be to go back to thailand. :lol

about school, we are unschoolers, so it's not an issue, no matter where we live.

[MamaRabbit]

We delivered at Bumrungrad, all natural and the Thai nurses attedning were all quite taken aback when I absolutely refused to deliver on my back but at least no one tried to get me to have an unecesary c-section.

That's amazing considering their C/S rate is 90% And they don't meet any of the baby-friendly initiative or help well with bfing.

I am very excited to go back, I have missed so many things about living in Thailand and there have been so many challenges trying to settle in the US again. Its great to hear about others who have chosen to settle in Thailand with families - it gives me hope that maybe we can make it work one day too.

This is what I'm worried about. For the few complaints that I do have about here, I can't imagine how hard it will be someday when we have to adjust back to life in the USA. This is our 7th year here, DH just signed another 2yr contract. I can see us here easily for 20 years.

Those of you with kids, do you mind me asking what you do about school, or plan to do if the kids are too young?

Most people put their kids in preschool by 2.5yr old. My DH teaches at an international school. Because he teaches there, we get free tuition. Good thing, because int'l school is expensive. I had planned on homeschooling through 1st grade, but our twins kindof threw that off for me. So we put DD in preK at 4yr old. Her teacher has a Montessori background so that works for me. There are many homeschoolers here, though all farang that I know of.

Also (and this is rather embarassing considering I lived there for 4 years and am married to a Thai man!) does anyone have any helpful suggestions with the language? I have basic Thai down but I need to get beyond the farang tourist Thai and really learn to communicate. My Thai skills actually deteriorated once I met my husband b/c it was always so much easier to have him take care of things. But I really need to just get over the hump and really learn those damn tones. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

What Majikfaerie said (and she's ALWAYS right :nana:) Really the only way is to be totally immersed in it. My Thai improved greatly when we got a maid/nanny to help out and I made sure she spoke ZERO English.

I'll be here in January of course, so give a call if you want!

[majikfaerie]

What Majikfaerie said (and she's ALWAYS right :nana:)
why thankyou m'dear :nana:
it takes one to know one.

I'll be in thailand in may/ june but probably only passing through bkk briefly; I have a birth booked in Phuket :)

[dumplingrrl]

Geez. I wish I'd found this thread sooner :( As it happens I went to Thonburi hospital and had 3 different docs tell me I'm too small to birth my child on my own/ IV's stuck in me as soon as I walked in to the birthing room/ Oxytocin and NO FOOD. I don't want to ramble, let's just say I had a not so good birth experience ending with an emergency C/S. Meh. Oh well... at least she's here and healthy.

Anyway. I'm really happy to find that there are other MDC here in Bangkok though! I'm a native but spent some years growing up in NY so I speak English pretty well. Nice to meet you all!

And as for learning Thai, the best advice I can give is to talk to as many native speakers as possible and try to imitate their tones. Don't be embarassed if it sounds weird. We LOVE it when a Farang is trying to talk Thai!

[MamaRabbit]

Dumpling.... what kind of CDs do you use? The cheapo thin Thai ones or do you buy them online from elsewhere? Where in BKK are you? I'm in BangNa.

[dumplingrrl]

Mamarabbit,

I made them myself using a pattern I found online (Mamabird's free pattern). Then I line them with some folded flat diapers as soakers and it's worked out pretty good. It was a hassle to make 12 small diapers at a time, and I need to do the laundry everyday to get away with using only 12, but they've held up real well and look pretty cute :)

I blogged about it here :http://pinngurl.blogspot.com/2007/06/diaper-update.html (here)

I've since made and switched to an M sized set.

I'm in Thonburi, by the way.

[majikfaerie]

hi dumplingrrl :)
sorry you had such a rough birth experience. :Hug
welcome to the thread!

[dumplingrrl]

Thanks Majikfaerie :love

[majikfaerie]

Hey Mamas!!
I'm coming to Bangkok soon :)
DD and I fly into BKK on the 5th of April (I think) till the 8th, so just a short stop, and then we're back again in early May for a few days, until early June.
Then I'll be down in Phuket to attend a birth, and passing through BKK at the end of the month (we fly out on the first of July).
mamarabbit; I'd definitely love to catch up, if you have time :)

[MamaRabbit]

Come and see me if you want! We're not leaving for our USA visit til mid-June.

[majikfaerie]

yay, I can't wait to meet you, mr :)
DD and I arrive to BKK at 6am on the 6th of april, (so we'll be getting into town around 8am -ish) and we fly out again late at night on th 8th, so we have 3 full days and 2 nights. Not as long as I wanted (I was hoping to get bookings for twice that long) but I'm sure we'll manage to catch up. Probably we'll stay in a cheap guest house in banglamphu.
I do have a couple of missions to get done in town (mostly finding a travel agent for cheap flights for us to go to China in May, and maybe to Phuket in June).

I'm so excited.
well, as long as I dont let my mind wander to the packing ;)