readers of The Continuum Concept by Jean Liedloff

[AmyMN]

I'm interested in discussing The Continuum Concept by Jean Liedloff and how it's affected our lives (especially what we have done differently in our lives).

My plan is to go to a couple of homeschooling groups with the hopes of meeting families which dd and I can "join" to form our own tribe.

I've also met a few TCC moms within 35 miles from me through TCC website forum. I'm arranging a get together for all of us this month.

I have a vision about starting an organization called Mentoring Moms where more-experienced moms (those with teens and adult children) can "sponsor" or mentor newer moms. We new moms could hang out at the mentor's home to help and learn by observing. I believe we need this since our continuum is broken.

As I said, TCC has a forum already set up (http://www.continuum-concept.org/). But it's not user-friendly in my opinion.

I look forward to reading what you have to say.

Amy

[ldsapmom]

Amy, I am sorry I did not email you back! I am totally in! I think it sounds like a great idea. I have other friends who have read this too that I will point this out to.

[barbara]

AmyMN, I want to encourage you in your desire to form a TCC network. I read this book back in the early 80's and again a couple of years ago when my dd was expecting her first child (my first grandchild.)

I think this book, along with Immaculate Deception and John Holt's books, have shaped our lives and had the greatest impact on how we have raised our children.

Over the years I haven't really known many people that have read TCC, (even though I have suggested it to many and keep it in the LLL library.) I am thrilled to see that there are others that also have been impacted by Jean Liedloff's work, and am eager to network with you.

I didn't realize there was a web site! I'm going to go check it out now. Thank you!

[Shakti]

I read it when I was pregnant (my first and only child, so far, is now 2.5 years old.) It also think that this book has had the greatest impact on how we raise our DD. I recommend it to everyone, as well. It is the first book any parent should read.

I also found the TCC forum difficult to use, and I haven't been to the site in quite some time. I stopped getting the Emails because it was just too much to have in my inbox. It is (or was, anyway) a very active list!

Patti

[EnviroBecca]

I loved the book, and since reading it last fall I've picked it up again and again to re-read the section on the experience of the continuum infant vs. the experience of the typical "civilized" infant. :eek Not having my own baby yet, I haven't been able to apply much of the baby-related stuff in real life.

My parents never read this book, but they applied some of the basic principles in raising us. One of the most important, IMO, was the idea that we're all people and we're all learning new things every day; some of us got an earlier start, but there is no black-and-white distinction between adults and children.

The parts of the book about adult continuum-correctness make pretty good sense to me. I've definitely learned from my own experience the lesson about how a task seems less difficult if you take it in stride rather than viewing it as a burden!

One thing we were already doing, which seems more important after reading this book, is having a weekly "open house" night when our friends are welcome to stop by but don't have to RSVP. We call it "game night" and often do play a game, but sometimes we just sit and talk. We don't drop everything to socialize; often we're cooking, sewing, etc. while people are there, and often they will get involved. It's really pleasant to invite our friends into our lives, instead of putting aside our lives in order to host them in a formal kind of way. We plan to keep doing this when we have a baby, with just a couple of weeks off.

Tell me more about how you've incorporated CC into your lives! :)

[sarasprings]

This is very interesting. I have the book right now and have read about half of it. The author makes some interesting points, but (I don't mean to make this a criticism, but I haven't had anyone to talk about it to) I guess it seems like she makes some generalizations, without necessarily looking broadly at other explanations. For example, the author's belief of the cureall of constant contact. I completely agree that contact is critical to a baby, but my son had it and he cried and cried and cried (it was way beyond colic). And, he has behaviors that are not Yequana, such as pulling the dog's hair and pulling flowers out of the pot. But, looking at the summary on the website, I definitly agree with the concepts. So, I am very interested in other mommas' experiences.

I'm going to continue reading the book tomorrow when my rechargable flashlight is charged and I can read next to my sleeping baby.

[AmyMN]

sarasprings: This is a good article which might show a different light on the "cureall of constant contact": http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/restoringHarmony.html Let me know what you think.

EnviroBecca, That is so awesome that you've read the book before having a child. I imagine it will help you greatly. I think I might adopt your wonderful weekly "open house" night idea! Are these people that you are really close with or do you find you're getting closer because of it?

Shakti & barbara, Can you say specific things that you've done in your parenting and in your life?

Thanks, everyone!

[Shakti]

First, I only did minimum baby-proofing of the house. I let her play with things that other Moms would freak out over, including almost everything in my kitchen cupboards. I haven't gotten around to let her play with knives, though! I let her eat dirt! I let her climb on the table. I carried her in the sling a lot!

I will try to write more later... it is late, and DD isn't even in bed yet! Not to mention that I am tired and ready to go to bed! :D

Patti

[barbara]

Can I say specific things that I've done in my parenting and in life? Well, let me see...

In many ways our lives are very different from others, yet I think we blend well into society. We are an unschooling family and that is a very different way of looking at life and relationships in and of it's self.

We have 3 grown children now, as well as 4 that are still at home. All of them were carried and slung from birth. Most of them were born at home and have slept in our family bed until they choose to sleep with another sibling or in a bed of their own. For each it was at different ages. (My teenagers still love to snuggle on the couch with me.) The same with breastfeeding, they nursed whenever they desired and weaned on their own somewhere after their second year.

We have never used gates on the stairs or locks on the kitchen cabinets, yet with 7 children we have never had one fall down the stairs. We do keep knives out of reach of babies, but found that they understand danger and words like "hot" and "sharp" very young. Another thing that keeps children safe is the fact that they are always with us and generally interested in what we are doing, so we know what they are doing. Our children never became "sneaky" because they wanted to be with us, not run away or hide from us.

Le me see, what else....

In the home we don't make any difference in work and play generally, everything is important and can be enjoyable. We try to have fun in everything we do and not seperate things into "work" and "leasure." I was just trying to explain this to someone on thread about unschooling, and the person simply couldn't understand this kind of mindset. It has become second nature to us, so I was really surrprised that for her learning and education fell into the "work" catagory. For us it is just part of life and as natural as breathing.

Along the lines of that, I think we have tried, for the most part, to give our children real tools as opposed to "toys," and real tasks and responsibilities, as opposed to contrived "jobs" or busy work. Not to say we don't encourage "play" in children, because we do think that is vital, and as natural as breathing.

I hope some of this makes sence, it is really late.

[sarasprings]

AmyMN, thanks for the article. I printed it and will read it later today with DH, who hasn't read the book, but listens to me talk about it. I printed something else from J.L.'s website last night that was a summary for him. (He teaches kindergarten and sees the results of different parenting methods.)

[ErikaDP]

Barbara,

Thank you for your wonderful reply about how your family lives. I have always enjoyed your thoughtful responses and the time you are willing to spend to make your points clear on this board. I have 3 adult children as well, but I still love to be reminded by others that you can live your life in freedom and have many rich experiences to share. My youngest is 10, and I can't believe how much pressure society is putting on kids at younger and younger ages(It just wasn't that way with the older kids). I just am so happy we are unschoolers. Thanks again for your reply.

Take Care,
Erika

[Shakti]

My new thoughts may be hard to put into words, but I will try. I think that TCC changed not so much what I do to or for DD, but rather how I see her and her actions. I don't do things 'for' her, in the way of educational things. I don't buy her the Baby Einstein videos for example. But when she is exploring, I know it is just that - exploring. What TCC did for me was make me a more relaxed Mom. I trust her to do what she needs to do. I do take her 'out' to see things, but my attitude is now different. I do it not 'for' her, but 'with' her. We simply have fun together. I have never felt like I have needed to entertain her. She has *always*entertained herself. But that is not to say that she has not wanted and received my attention. But when she demands my attention, it is because she needs something, not because she needs me to entertain her. Again, this distinction is mostly internal to me, and perhaps outwardly it looks like I am entertaining her. But it is an important distinction for me because it makes her 'needs' less burdensome for me, and I can therefore accomodate her needs in stride, rather than stopping what I am doing, tending to her, and then going back to what I was doing. An example: I am folding laundry and she is playing in the other room. She comes in and asks to be picked up, or asks me to come in the other room to play with her. Instead of dropping the laundry and going to her, I invite her to help with the laundry. I may have to lift her countless times so that she can take clothes from the basket and drop them in the washer, and it may take me longer than if I had done it myself. But... I see it as her *need* to see what I do as an adult. Any frustration that I may have felt about the laundry taking longer to do is simply not there. We do the laundry together and we are both happy. Many times on these boards I have seen people complain that their kids don't let them get any work done around the house. Those are the times that I think to myself, "Boy, am I glad that I read TCC when I did!!!"

It is also really, really hard to tell you how TCC has changed the way I parent, because I read it while I was pregnant with my first child. It is hard to envision how I would have parented if I had not read TCC, but I know that it would be different!

I am not sure that helps any! :D

Patti

[barbara]

I think that TCC changed not so much what I do to or for DD, but rather how I see her and her actions. Yes that is it exactly!! I'm not sure if I would have come to the same ways of thinking had I not read TCC when my first child was a baby. I'd like to think that I would have; that it is an inate way of living that I would have found within myself. However, I know that something "clicked" when I read this book and it resonated with something deep within me; it validated what I intuitively felt was right. With the pressures that our modern society puts on parents, I believe it is difficult to follow one's instincts and do things differently, without conformation from other sources.

ErikaDP, thanks! :blush It is good to see how unschooling helps our children to think for themselves (vs. the herd mindset) and grow at their own pace, yet we still seem to feel the tug of society to conform. It is interesting to observe how there is such a push for children to grow up, yet we are seeing more and more young adults that really haven't "grown up" at all, IYKWIM.

peace,
b

[KatherineinCA]

I'm too tired to add anything coherent, just wanted to post so I can get the e-mail updates and keep up with this thread.

TCC is the most important book I've read in my mothering experience and has certainly impacted me the most profoundly. I'll elaborate another day...

[EnviroBecca]

EnviroBecca, That is so awesome that you've read the book before having a child. I imagine it will help you greatly. I think I might adopt your wonderful weekly "open house" night idea! Are these people that you are really close with or do you find you're getting closer because of it?It's a varied group:
*2 people who shared an apartment w/MrBecca for 4 years before MrBecca and I began living together. These guys are our very closest friends, and we consider them family members just as much so as my brother (who is the only "real" sibling we have between the two of us). They started the open house thing back when they were all living together.
*a couple who shared a dorm room w/me for a year--technically she and I were sharing the room, but he was there nearly every night due to living far off campus--and we've remained friends since.
*another of my friends from college, who happens to live a block away from the house we bought last year. MrBecca has become friends w/him, and I have become better friends w/him, due to open house and mutual efforts to be neighborly: He pet-sits for us, and we take him along when we do shopping trips in the car.
*4 other friends from college--2 of them are ex-boyfriends of mine, and the others are a couple now but weren't in college which is neat. :) One of the exes also lives on our block.
*a friend I met both at church and at Polyamory Network--the fact that we had 2 interests in common led me to talk to her more, and we learned that we also shared an interest in playing games!
*2 more people from Polyamory Network who like games.

While we would hang out w/all of these people at least sometimes in any case, we wouldn't see them nearly so frequently if not for our open house. (Some of them come only a few times a year--typically 2-4 show up on any given Thursday.) I think it does bring us closer.

Shakti wrote:I do take her 'out' to see things, but my attitude is now different. I do it not 'for' her, but 'with' her. Exactly! This is just what I hope to do, and it's one of the things I feel my parents did so well. For example, my dad would take us (and often a few of our friends or neighbor kids) on "adventures" at the creek or the construction site or the oil field or other places where he thought there'd be something interesting to see, and he'd supervise and explain things but otherwise let us wander around and find our own fun. This was certainly educational and good exercise and good experience, but it was all that for him, too! Certainly he treated it very much like an adventure for ALL of us, not something he was paternalistically enabling us to do. :thumb

[barbara]

Certainly he treated it very much like an adventure for ALL of us, not something he was paternalistically enabling us to do I agree, kids know when adults are patronizing them, and no one likes that sort of thing! I love nature, music and museums, so these are things I have always done with my children. I'm not too crazy about amusement parks so I don't take my kids there, even though it seems to be the thing to do with kids around here in the summer. My point being that it is natural to do the things one likes, and include one's children in those things. When doing things because you think it is good for the kids, or fun for the kids, it often seems contrived. I'm not sure I'm expressing this well, but I do know that attitudes are contagious and when you are excited and interested in something, others will catch that enthusiasm!

[AmyMN]

Valuable information you all are writing. Thank you. I need to read everything more thoroughly to take it all in.

Below, I posted the links for two articles which tie in with what you've been talking about.

"When you're doing it right, your needs are the same as the child's and you don't have to choose between them."
Jean Liedloff

Here is an article about being child-centered:
http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/whosInControl.html

Restoring Harmony is one I mentioned, above:
http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/restoringHarmony.html

Has anyone hired a mama's helper?

Barbara, How does a new mom like me meet a mom like you? If you lived nearby, I'd ask if dd and I could hang out with you to help where you need in exchange for observing cc in action.

[Mamaste]

Great thread! So glad to see it here. No time to write this morning, but I'm always so frustrated by parents who mistakenly believe APing means all this time sitting on the floor playing with their toddlers or whatever ... Bleh. Subscribing to this thread! :thumb

[barbara]

Awww, gee thanks AmyMN :blush

Mamaste, I agree it is hard to change that mindset.

BTW, we just got our power restored here and I'm amazed at how no one knew what to do without air conditioning and tv! The traffic was terrible because without traffic lights people just become dumb. Haven't they ever heard of a 4 way stop. :eek

[Periwinkle]

Great thread. I signed up for the Continuum Concept mailserv, and it was awful from a user-friendliness perspective (though I greatly enjoyed the exchange of info). Glad to see one here. :)

I took a lot from that book. The most surprising part for me is trusting the survival instincts of our babies. I let dd and ds crawl around the backyard naked, sit on the grass, eat grass and dirt if they feel like it. :D I figure, why not. We still go on walks when it's raining instead of shutting ourselves in the house. They like the rain! I did some babyproofing, mostly because I personally feel that the humun continuum had absolutely no experience with electrical outlets and tipp-able break-able lamps. :LOL But I do let them climb up on the sofa, and you know what, they've never fallen off. I have baby gates but just to keep them with me in one area (fam rm + kitchen) while I'm there, not really for safety. And I notice other people freaking out when I allow dd or ds to do something perceived as "risky" that they just handle without any problem.

A lot of the AP pieces (babywearing, nursing), I was already trying to do as much as humanly possible when you have twins.

I'm wondering though what everyone thought of the discipline piece. My *very* high-level summary is that children were expected to behave in an agreeable way and were given the experiences and care they needed to do that. I wonder when I ask dd or ds to brush their teeth or not bang on the neighbor's dog's head with a rattle (etc. etc.) whether this is CC, and how to translate those concepts into modern-day concerns. Because when I've read AP books on discipline (e.g., Sears' The Discipline Book) it's quite clear that children naturally question authority and explore limits, and that it is GOOD to set limits and reinforce socially acceptable behaviors. (Via gentle discipline of course.) Anyway, there was a really interesting thread here in MDC titled "Beyond AP" about this exact question, and brought up some interesting points.

My other interest about this concept as a whole is whether there has been other research to corroborate Leidloff's findings in other nantive tribes, cultures. I did find myself wondering whether basing a childcare paradigm for all children on her experiences with one tribe was valid. I would love to read other books, articles, etc. and see these similarities.

:hippie

[urklemama]

I read TCC when I was a nanny, and I found it very helpful, but also very frustrating.

I live in a small urban apartment with my partner, two schoolage children (my stepsons), and an infant. The traffic is absolutely horrendous around here. The older children cannot go out by themselves. Their father and I are regularly almost killed by traffic - there is no way I'm letting the kids cross the street alone. Drivers are too careless, there are too many giant-ass SUV's, and the kids are really, really small for their age.

So in order to get their needs met, I have to a lot of things I loathe and detest, like go to the playground and sit on the %$#$% bench while they play, and take two buses to their various activities, and back, with the baby.... not only are these not things I would choose to do with my time, but time spent doing them is time spent NOT doing things I'd actually like to be doing.

But the ideas in TCC are very helpful in recoginizing that this situation, where the needs of family members actually are in conflict with each other, is totally pathological, and I have a right to be miffed - and so do the kids!

[EnviroBecca]

I'm wondering though what everyone thought of the discipline piece. My *very* high-level summary is that children were expected to behave in an agreeable way and were given the experiences and care they needed to do that. I wonder when I ask dd or ds to brush their teeth or not bang on the neighbor's dog's head with a rattle (etc. etc.) whether this is CC, and how to translate those concepts into modern-day concerns. Within the CC framework, it's still okay to instruct your child to do or not to do a particular thing. As an experienced member of the tribe, you have a better understanding of appropriate behavior, so it makes sense for you to guide your child's behavior at times. See the interview about Bali (http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/backFromBali.html) for some actual examples of Liedloff's observing parents gently directing children's behavior. (Start at the question "Did you observe children of other ages as well?") She suggests that we "give the child the information about what to do, because that is what social beings want to know."

BTW, she did study Bali and other cultures in addition to the Yequana--just maybe not before she wrote the book.

Urklemama, ITA about the traffic. It's wrong that your neighborhood doesn't allow for basic pedestrian safety! I assume that you are teaching your kids the skills you use for getting around safely, so that someday when they're bigger they WILL be able to cross the street alone; it'll just be at a later age than if you lived in a place with sane traffic.

[urklemama]

EnviroBecca, like I said, the adults of the household are barely making it around safely!

It really wigs most people I know that on the one hand I "let" the kids do incredibly dangerous things around the house, but I won't let them cross the street by themselves... but in terms of TCC it makes sense. I know that they can handle fire and knives and hot water and the steep spiral staircase as soon as they want to, because if they couldn't handle it they wouldn't want to do it. But irresponsible drivers are something else... what skills do you teach a child to help him handle the fact that someone in control of a fast-moving, immensely heavy metal object is more concerned with their telephone conversation that with other people's safety? I hate that I have to teach them that they have to assume most people in the world are untrustworthy, at least when they get behind the wheel.

[EnviroBecca]

:OT These are the pedestrian skills that come to mind:

Look in ALL directions, not just where the cars are supposed to be coming from according to the lights.

If a car is supposed to be stopping at a light or sign, watch to see that it is slowing down before you walk out in front of it.

Plan your route to avoid the worst spots, when you can. Notice which intersections have four-way stops and try to use them.

Drivers turning left are more agitated about getting to make their turn than drivers turning right, because a left turn has to wait for a break in oncoming traffic. This means that if lots of northbound drivers tend to be turning from Busy Street onto Speedy Blvd. and you want to cross Speedy, you're safer on the east side of Busy because right-turners are more willing to pause and let you cross.

Whether or not the light is in your favor is less important than whether a car is coming. (The relative importance is, of course, affected by your local laws about jaywalking and enforcement thereof.)

Pay attention to how fast a vehicle is moving before you cross its path. Not everyone follows the speed limit.

A vehicle that pulls to one side of its lane is probably intending to turn that direction, even if it isn't signaling.

Never assume that a driver can see you if you step behind a vehicle. Especially, never cross behind a vehicle that's pulled forward over the crosswalk if it is pointed uphill, because the driver could relax pressure on the brake and slide backward into you.

Try to catch a driver's eye and look for a signal that they are going to let you cross.


Probably there are a lot more rules like this that you use every day, Urklemama. The easiest way to teach your kids would be to speak out loud what you're thinking as you make decisions. It might even help you improve your own skills!

[AmyMN]

QUOTE]Because when I've read AP books on discipline (e.g., Sears' The Discipline Book) it's quite clear that children naturally question authority and explore limits, and that it is GOOD to set limits and reinforce socially acceptable behaviors.QUOTE]

I don't think it's natural to question authority. If children question authority, it means they sense that the adult is unsure of herself. Children's instincts tell them that their elders know what's best at all times and blame themselves when they sense something is wrong. I think it's natural to "act out" to try to get the person-in-charge to stand firm, be strong. See the article links posted on this thread.

Exploring limits is part of development and isn't a negative thing. If given the freedom to do so without intervention, children naturally know what their limits are. If they are interfered with, they let go of that natural instinct of self-preservation, and count on the not-there-every-single-microsecond adult to take care of them (see chapter 4 called "Growing Up" in TCC). Granted, the whole car/traffic thing is a different story if you're talking about limits there.

Regarding socially-acceptable behaviors, I think our culture expects our babies and children to be miniature adults. Our kids learn by observing us. I find that I explain things to dd way more than I need to. If we are out in public and she's checking out another kid's toy while the kid is freaking out, I give the toy back to the kid and remove dd from the situation. I tend to make a comment such as, "That boy doesn't want you to have his toy." I try to remove my child from situations rather than explaining what the "rules" are (she's only 19-months, though). Also, I find that the distraction method works for me. I don't like to use the word "distraction". If dd is upset about a decision I made for her, I acknowledge her being upset (which I'm not sure is very CC) and then I start talking about something else (like what we did that day). I hope that it is showing her how to talk herself down from a stressful moment (something that I think is valuable in our stressful culture).

BTW, I read The Discipline Book recently. I didn't want to finish it, but did just in case a discussion about it ever came up. I disagree with a lot of what's in there. That whole time-out thing really saddens me--among a lot of other things in the book. What's wrong with a 5-year-old staying in bed with his parents.

I hope my early-morning ramblings make sense.

[Periwinkle]

BTW, I completely agree that there is much in Sears' book to be questioned, including time-outs and their use with toddlers. I was trying to point out that so-called AP books talk about discipline and for that matter parenting in general very differently than CC type books (including Leidloff's). I see a pretty big gap there, and it is curious to me, because I see value, and harmony on some things, in both perspectives.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify, that *I* was not necessarily the one saying that "it's good to set limits"... that was Sears. :)

[AmyMN]

hey TwinMommy, I understand what you're saying and consider it a given that you're a very aware mom. My comments wee just general thoughts I have, and I think you brought up some good ideas.

RE: Traffic, what if we took the same approach as the Yequana does for river currents and jungle animals, both unpredictable and potentially life-threatening?

[barbara]

I don't think it's natural to question authority. If children question authority, it means they sense that the adult is unsure of herself. Children's instincts tell them that their elders know what's best at all times and blame themselves when they sense something is wrong. I think it's natural to "act out" to try to get the person-in-charge to stand firm, be strong. Yes I agree. My experience has been that children naturally look for adults (especially parents) to be "in charge" or the authority, and feel uneasy or scared when the adults aren't confident.

It is a lot like dealing with horses or dogs. They are looking to you for leadership, protection, direction, as well as love and compassion. When you aren't confident, a horse feels insecure with you and may act in ways that seem to be challenging you. In reality he wants you to take control of the situation and protect and direct him. This is the same with a child. Our society says the child is challenging authority or rebelling, or testing you. The child is saying something like: "hey, do you know what you are doing or not? Can I follow you and trust you to protect me? Is everything ok with my world?"

When we reflect a calm confidence, we are easier to follow and imitate. Of course when parents become strict or harsh their child my rebel againest their authority, but that is a different set of circumstances altogether.

[barbara]

I just wanted to add to my previous post to say that I hope I did not offend anyone by using Horses as an example. I am NOT comparing children to horses or dogs! It is just that I have been doing some gentle horse training and find that much of it carries over to children, so it seemed a natural anology to use. I realize this could be offencive to some, so I wanted to clarify myself.

:hippie

[urklemama]

EnviroBecca, my question was rhetorical. I know basic traffic safety rules.

[PM]

I'm not sure if I would have come to the same ways of thinking had I not read TCC when my first child was a baby. I'd like to think that I would have;

You would have Barbara! I discovered the book only weeks ago (and I still haven't read the book, only articles on the web), but I had already discovered and tested many of its principles.

We never child-proofed either. We saw that Iris was an especially careful child on her own - of course, that was her personality (we're talking backing down [stopping, turning round and going backwards with her hands down on the floor] two steps still at the age of 18 months!).

More later...

[barbara]

I had an interesting discussion along these lines recently.

I was having lunch with a young woman who does not have children of her own. Now it seems she has friends that are missionaries living in a small tribal village with the intent of translating the Christian scriptures into the tribal language. She says they have expressed the challenges in raising their own children in a society where children are encouraged to explore dangers and knives are left lying around where babies can explore them.

I attempted to explain how babies do have an inate sense of danger and that if allowed to safely explore their enviroment they will understand the dangers and avoid them without restraint, but she was not buying it.

I am curious about why to some people this idea resonates; makes sense; feels right, and to others it sounds like nonsense and they are horrified by the thought of not confining children to "child safe" rooms.

Do any of you have thoughts on this?

[PM]

Oh man! Reminds me of a docu I saw once about a Brazilian tribe: There were these machete-wielding 3 and 4 year-olds (to cut coconuts and wood, etc.) with these wobbly toddlers walking right under them and around them. The kids would stop half-chop when the toddlers got too near. Yep! Jumped out of my seat a coupla times! :D

[EnviroBecca]

I think maybe the difference between people who like CC and people who think everything must be child-safe, is the difference between seeing life as a continuum rather than seeing childhood as a distinct state of being. If children are just people who are younger than we are, then it makes sense that they don't know everything we know, but we can feel comfortable that they're learning all the time just by going about daily life...as are we. If children and adults are two distinct categories, then we must "protect" children from "adult" things.

One of the weaknesses of Liedloff's book, IMO, is the strange and somewhat vague way she uses the word "continuum". Just when I think I know what she means by it, she uses it in a way that doesn't fit the definition I had in mind! :confused: One of the ways I interpret the term is that life is continuous, not divided into discrete stages.

"Western" culture, particularly American culture, tends to polarize everything: black and white, right and wrong, male and female, child and adult. I think one of the reasons we have so much trouble with adolescence in our society is that we simultaneously try to view it as a third distinct stage of life and to force it to one pole or the other--some people want to treat teens like children (helpless, untrustworthy) until they're 18, and others want to treat them like adults (total freedom, no right to inconvenience you with their needs) from the age of 12--as if we just can't stand to have any number of categories other than 2! Thinking in polarities often includes the assumption of conflict between the two poles. With that kind of attitude, it's no wonder some people view parenting as a task of conquering an enemy! :crying

[barbara]

Well said EnviroBecca, ITA! :thumb

[aprilsmapril]

Hi! I just saw this message when I was searching. I see that it's a couple of years old -- and if I've missed newer threads about this, I apologize :).

I've been looking for links/articles/info on how to implement these concepts with preschoolers/kindergarten age kids. I've just been introduced to the Continuum Concept and it seems that most of the info is better implemented in babyhood (of course -- that's optimal), but my boys are 3 and 5 and this is a new concept for me.

I guess in short, does anyone have links regarding beginning this "lifestyle" with children rather than babies?

Thanks!!

[pinkmilk]

hi...there are some newer ones but I'm glad you dug this one up too!!!

I'm not good with links so I'll leave that to someone else...but welcome!!! and I will bump up the other threads for you!!

[EnviroBecca]

April, I don't have any links for you, but the way I'd approach continuum parenting of preschoolers would be similar to the way I interact with my Girl Scouts (whose families have a variety of different styles). These are my main ideas:

We're all in this together. We're a unit (a troop/a family) and we all want to enjoy our time together and have things go pretty smoothly. Each of us is an important member of the group, and we value each other as unique individuals. (I often flash back to the G.S. cookie boxes of the '70s that said on one side, "I'm not like anyone else." and on the other side, "We have a lot in common." The coexistence of these two ideas can produce a beautiful harmony.)

As a more experienced person, I have lots of guidance to offer. That doesn't mean I am giving instructions all the time. I provide a basic explanation of what we are doing, and then I do it, answering questions and helping as I'm asked. Sometimes I discover that the kids need to do something different than what I planned, in which case I let them and sometimes join them...unless there is a really good reason we need to do it my way (example: We need to prepare the carrots for eating before we all get hungry, rather than using the carrots to drum on the table.) in which case I explain with a firm expectation that they will listen.

We Do This. Many of our rules, procedures, and customs are not in fact the only correct way to do things; they are just the established Way. It's okay to question...but I do not *offer things up for questioning*; I just say, "This is how we do it," with a sense of confidence.

Children are capable beings who are always learning new skills. I offer many opportunities to do things they haven't done before. It's okay if you are not ready to do something. It's okay to do it not-so-well. The important thing is to resist believing that a particular person (whether because of age or because of past attempts or past refusals to do that thing) will not want to do something or will not be good at it or will not be able to do it safely. Each time is a fresh start.

All of us naturally want to help each other. This pertains to doing the work to support our group, to solving problems among us, and to helping each of us feel happy and comfortable.

When someone's behavior is contrary to my expectations, I show SURPRISE, like I can't believe she would do that because it doesn't make any sense. A slight tinge of disapproval (I feel I do this mostly with my eyebrows :lol) helps prevent the surprise from seeming like a funny=desirable reaction.

:shrug Is that any help?

[AmyMN]

I've been looking for links/articles/info on how to implement these concepts with preschoolers/kindergarten age kids.


I think "unschooling" is common among many CC folks. Get your hands on basically all of John Holt's books. :thumb

Like TCC, unschooling is a way of life, a state of mind. There aren't any "rules" to follow. It's about the whole family (adults and kids) following their naturally-born instincts. You can start to do this at anytime.

Also "How to Win by Quitting" is a great book. As well as
"Dumbing Us Down", "Homeschooling Our Kids Unschooling Ourselves", "A Different Kind of Teacher", "Magical Child", "Your Competent Child".

Here are a few links
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/index.htm
http://unschoolers.com/
http://www.marygriffith.com/work2.htm
http://dragontree.vilter.us/how.html