Vaccinations

[hazieluna]

I'm wondering how everyone has handled vaccinations here in NL? Aidan is due for the first round of vax soon. I got the vaccination info from the GGD - Infanrix Hexa. It includes a Hep B vax. I'm thinking I'm going to delay until at least 6 months.

How has everyone else done it? Does anyone have a resource to do more research regarding vax that is not in Dutch since I need to really understand what I'm reading.

Thanks!

[mrflowers]

We haven't vaccinated any of our kids; it's not required here. Our oldest was born here 7 1/2 years ago, and the third came just last Saturday. Explaining my reasons for non-vax with the first was time-consuming, but they (grudgingly) accepted my reasons.
This time will be easier, because the kraamverzorgster has already let the cb know that we will not be vaxing. Although, maybe I should wait until I've been there to see how accepting they are.
What I did when my oldest was a baby was, I went through my stash of back-issues of Mothering, photocopied every article concerning vaccine safety, and took a big fat file of articles in to the cb with me. They didn't read them, but I think it showed them that I was doing research, and my decision was informed.
Maybe you can access some articles from the Mothering archives? At any rate, just stick with your decision, and know that no one can force you to vax.

[edlyn]

None of my children is vaccinated. DS was born in Canada, DD was born here. I explained the CB nurse that our decision to non-vax is has been well-researched.
They seem to be fine with it.

Resources: I am seconding the PP, and here are some other web sites:

http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html

Good luck with your decision!

[SuzymomofLaura]

We delayed, we partly vax, and we switched to another consultatiebureau (although it is also from the GGD, they are twice as cooperative!) We also prepair our babies for the vaxing with homeopathy, and after the series is completed they're treated as well, to restore their balance. PM if you want the number of our homeopatische kinderarts in Amsterdam-zuid, she's very good.

[sarahmck]

DD isn't vaccinated and the new one won't be either. We moved here when she was 3 months old, so we came in with a short history of not having vaxed. The consultatiebureau didn't give us trouble. We just told them that we had agonized over our decision and researched it long and hard, blah blah blah, and they've been pretty good about it. From what I hear, it definitely differs by consultatiebureau.

For the first few visits, they asked us every time if we wanted shot X, but we always just said no and now they don't even ask unless we get a new nurse for some reason.

I encourage you to go to the vax forum here to ask any questions that you may have. The women there will be able to point you to lots more resources.

[LeftFootGreen]

The Dutch government funds the vaccination program. They estimate 95% of the children here are vaccinated. However, the program is voluntary, not required. You can tell your consultatiebureau that you don't want the shots. They may or may not agree depending in the cb, but they have no authority to make your child receive vaccinations.

My son received the first series of shots, but we're delaying the MMR. He's had no adverse reactions, but I feel better about delaying the MMR.

Kym

[lifeonwater]

We delayed, we partly vax, and we switched to another consultatiebureau (although it is also from the GGD, they are twice as cooperative!) We also prepair our babies for the vaxing with homeopathy, and after the series is completed they're treated as well, to restore their balance. PM if you want the number of our homeopatische kinderarts in Amsterdam-zuid, she's very good.


Hi there

I would be very interested in having the name of your kinderarts in Amsterdam.

many thanks

lifeonwater

[SuzymomofLaura]

Hi Lifeonwater, my reply must have got stuck in your spamfilter I guess ;)
Her name is Kossakowski
kinderarts, praktijk v homeopathie
You'll find her phonenumber and address here (http://www.detelefoongids.nl/tg/asd-amsterdam/kossakowski/1/)

[lifeonwater]

thanks suzy for the info! Quick question.... do you visit kossakowski as your children's main doctor or just for one off sessions? Haven't made contact yet, as she's quite far away for me and am still getting my head around how to arrange the whole doc/consultatiebureau/vax/nonvax/homeopath thing. Finding out how others do it is proving helpful! Many thanks!

[sarahmck]

We just went to the CB for the first time with Lucas for his 4 week visit. There's a new doctor at our CB and she was very cool. She asked why we don't vax and I told her that we don't believe them to be either safe or effective and while she didn't agree totally, she was completely fine with us not vaxing and specifically said that she didn't feel that it was a dangerous decision or any of the other stuff that lots of CBs would say. She said that she has to concern herself with group health, not individual health, which is why she wasn't exactly in agreement with the decision, but she went out of her way to say that we shouldn't feel like she thinks it's a bad decision and that she would say something if she felt like we were endangering our child. I think she said this because she misinterpreted my awkwardness at attempting to express myself in Dutch for nervousness at her reaction.

Anyway, that's the CB at the Gebortecentrum and I have to say that they've always been very reasonable. We've gotten a bit of bad advice, but nothing terrible and they've always been cool with us just politely disagreeing.

[lifeonwater]

Hey that's great news Sarah.
I have avoided my appointments there whilst researching the vax thing because I was worried about their reaction and didn't want the fight. But I think I'll just phone and make another appointment now. The nurse was the one who worried me. Very annoying and rough with her handling of DS, with crap unasked for advice. I've heard there is more than one nurse however, so I'll ask for another one. thanks for the positive post!
p.s Do you do anything with homeopathy in place of vax, or just leave well alone?

Such a relief to find there are others in the same mindset. Phew.

[sarahmck]

Like I said, I've heard it varies widely by CB. If you're not already entrenched with one, it might be worth investigating the possibility of switching to another.

We don't personally do anything homeopathic in place of vaccination. If one of my kids was ever to get sick, I would try to treat it homeopathically, but thus far we've been quite lucky and have never had anything more than a cold or a day or two of tummy trouble, which I treat only with sodium ascorbate.

I am now up to 6 families that I know in real life in Amsterdam that don't vax. That might be including me, I can't remember now. But anyway, I find it very encouraging!

[edlyn]

I am now up to 6 families that I know in real life in Amsterdam that don't vax. That might be including me, I can't remember now. But anyway, I find it very encouraging!


Not sure if you've counted us in already....anyways: we don't vax either. Our CB is o.k. with that (the one in Gezondheitscentrum Borgerstraat), the nurse questioned it the first few times but now just raises her eyebrows. When talking about our 5-year old DS the doc asked what our plans are with vaxing, and I just said, oh well, we will look into it after our return to Canada this Summer.....

[sarahmck]

Not sure if you've counted us in already

I did. But you're leaving and one of the others is, too, so that puts me down to four :(

[hazieluna]

We haven't vaxed either and no problems with our consultiebureau either. We go to the one in Westerpark. They do ask every appointment but I say that we are waiting until he is older to start.

a bit OT but on our last visit the nurse recommended that we start feeding Aidan sandwiches, cheese, pindakaas, and smeerworst... I kept thinking to myself while she talked that feeding babies is so cultural!

[SuzymomofLaura]

the nurse recommended that we start feeding Aidan sandwiches, cheese, pindakaas, and smeerworst...
!!! And he's not even a year old!!! Surely that's a piece of bad advice if ever I heard one!! We swithed CB from Weesp (We live in the southeast part of the city) to Diemen, and like I said, it made all the difference. The CB doctor there asked why we wanted to delay and skip some other shots but that was because she wanted to make sure we had made an informed decision, I thought that was considerate and wise. She wasn't bugging us in any way.
We also changed to a huisarts that does homeopathy because our former one was giving us crap :)

[DariusMom]

a bit OT but on our last visit the nurse recommended that we start feeding Aidan sandwiches, cheese, pindakaas, and smeerworst... I kept thinking to myself while she talked that feeding babies is so cultural!

I so agree! All the baby books I read were from the US and the UK as my Dutch wasn't very good when DS was a baby. Therefore, I was shocked with the CB advice! However, when I look around, I see that the Dutch kids are really healthy and that a lot of this stuff (both for certain foods and against it) is culturally determined.

[wobbema]

I did. But you're leaving and one of the others is, too, so that puts me down to four :(

HI Sarah!
congrats with Lucas! is everything going well?

and we stopped vaxing over a year ago, so you can half-include us now too!

[sarahmck]

Welcome back!

All is well with Lucas, thanks. I will get myself to an AP playgroup meeting one of these days and hopefully will see you then.

I will add you to my mental non-vaxers list ;)

[wobbema]

I so agree! All the baby books I read were from the US and the UK as my Dutch wasn't very good when DS was a baby. Therefore, I was shocked with the CB advice! However, when I look around, I see that the Dutch kids are really healthy and that a lot of this stuff (both for certain foods and against it) is culturally determined.

i feel very dumb right now but what is wrong with cheese, peanut butter and sandwiches??

thanks for explaining in advance!

angela

[SuzymomofLaura]

what is wrong with cheese, peanut butter and sandwiches?

Nothing, LOL, just that they are not suitable for babies because of the allergens (and other substances) they contain, but obviously not everyone is aware of that. Some info on smeerworst for example is found here (http://www.network54.com/Forum/382080/thread/1182707395/goede+info+over+smeerkaas+en+smeerworst-) However, we're drifting more and more OT, we could start a new thread on this if you like?

[wobbema]

Hi Suzy and others,

no I don't find it necessary to open a new thread on this. I knew about the allergy-ridk of peanutbutter. I was just surprised to hear doubts about bread and cheese. But of course it's also what you put on the bread...

interesting link, by the way.
thanks!

[hazieluna]

So back to vax, does anyone have a delayed list of vax for here in the NL? I'm just curious. I tried to look on this website (http://www.nvkp.nl/bestandsdelen/) but my Dutch is so so. I'm curious for those who are planning on doing some vax which ones and why.

I would love to discuss it. Right now we haven't vaxed Aidan at all and I'm not sure if we will but I'm still interested in being as informed as possible.

Btw I find the whole vax section here on MDC totally overwhelming and since they have different vax and brands over here I wonder how relevant the info is to us anyhow.

Oh and sorry about my OT posting!!! I just thought it was funny because in the States starting solids is all about avoiding future allergies and watching for reactions. I certainly don't believe one is better than the other just thought it was interesting to see just how different we all can feed our babies! I know in Spain it's all about feeding your baby "brain" foods... so...