This is more a vent than anything else...

This week my SD, in a good public K5, had to bring in a poster about her life. We had her this weekend so we made the poster...we (her dad and I) had *her* write out the heading (she can write legible capital letters) and draw the pictures. (Her dad added some captions.) All three of us selected some digital photographs (including one with the three of us, and one with her and her mom) to print out and attach. SD glued them on and added the requisite glitter. She was proud of her work.

Well, we got an email from her mom this morning saying that all the *other* kids brought in their posters and it was very clear that we were the only ones out of 20 who actually had/let their kid do the bulk of the work themselves. Everyone else had nice, neat headings and clean layouts and borders for their photos and all that. (It did not seem as though SD's mom wrote this to suggest we should have done the work for SD -- it seemed to be more lamenting that the other kids didn't get the experience.)

Oy. It's starting. But in kindergarten? Where there aren't even grades?

I wonder what, if anything, the teacher will have to say about this. I hope she doesn't penalize students for doing the work themselves.

Yep...for us it started in pre-k. We had a similar poster. I did do the writing, dd couldn't yet, but she drew borders around the picts and decorated it. Out of a class of 14, most were digital prints - some were even laminated. It was obvious that only a few kids actually participated in the making of the poster.

Just happened again in 4th grade. The kids were all making fall haunted houses. Of course there were several that looked like factory made homes complete with astro turf lawn...the rest, I am glad to say, the kids ACTUALLY made themselves...sigh...

I remember this problem from when I was in school--I was always so jealous of my classmates' perfect parent- and computer- generated projects. I remember one time we had to make some kind of diarama and one kid's father was an architect--he had his firm put the thing together for the kid!!

But I was far more prepared for college than some, so in the end I thank my parents for not doing my work.

On the other hand, with all the stories about professionally prepared college applications, it sounds like this problem has only gotten worse since my school days :dizzy:.

Still, I faithfully make sure DS does his own work--I help him, but don't do things for him. His K teacher seems to appreciate it this year. I hope that'll be true throughout school.

My 3rd in is in K now. When they have projects like this in K the instructions to the parents say we can help but to let the kids do the majority of the work themselves & from what I've seen the parents comply(though we get very little work before that we need to help them with).

As they get older, my oldest is in Grade 4, they don't bring projects home to work on at all. I did help my oldest get info for a project about a famous person from Saskatchewan but that was becuase she didn't know he's related to us & I was getting her the family tree for her.

When parents do the work for thier kids it is their kids who are hurting. They are not getting the experience or learning ways to make them better.

In Kindergarten though I would expect more parent work than kid work, especially if they can't write yet or don't have access to a computer to print things off.

This would bother me a lot less in kindergarten than in older grades. I've made posters (with their input) for my boys in kindergarten because the assignment seemed more geared towards sharing information with your classmates, than how well do you print and glue. Many of the kids, especially the boys, probably aren't writing very well at that point.

This would bother me a lot less in kindergarten than in older grades. I've made posters (with their input) for my boys in kindergarten because the assignment seemed more geared towards sharing information with your classmates, than how well do you print and glue. Many of the kids, especially the boys, probably aren't writing very well at that point.

I agree with you about helping with/doing things beyond the developmental abilities of the kids, although the class has learned block letters and they're supposed to be practicing (the assignment sheet included that as an objective -- this assignment did seem less show-and-tell, more for the value of doing the assignment itself)...but apparently there were kids who didn't seem to do anything with the poster. Not even a drawing or decorations or anything. I wonder how many of them *wanted* to do something and the parents ended up doing everything.

reminds me of the story where the emperor who loves flowers is reaching the end of his life and gives all the kids seeds to plant, all of them go home plant their seeds, time passes, the kids return to the palace to show the emperor their wonderful lush plants... that is all but one who the emperor approaches and asks why his pot is empty and the child replies that he tried and tried but just could not get the seed to grow.... the emperor replies that that is good because he had given boiled seeds (none should have grown) to the children... guess who was to became the next emperor?

Honesty is the best thing in life and having a child do their own work is honesty. You are doing a good thing!

I think it's like the difference between a home-made gift and a storebought one. The home-made gift might be less polished and less appealing in some ways, but it is more authentic and made with more care and thought than one purchased in a shop. For a school project, I'd choose the authentic child-made one any day rather than the polished parent-made one any day. Especially if the point of the exercise is in the process, not the end-result.

I think when people do their kids' homework it's really robbing them of the process of learning. Why would you do that? Why would you want your kids to not learn? Help, guide, scaffold, but don't do the homework. How will your kid feel proud of him/herself? Whenever we have parents do that at my school, the kids walk in with their projects angry because their parents hijacked their projects, and ashamed because they're told not to tell. As if we teachers don't know.

It drives me nuts when the parents do the project. My kids always have to do the project. I will help them find resources and maybe glue a tricky spot but they have to do the work themselves.

I remember back in the stone ages how my parents made me do all the work and how much I hated them for not being like everyone else's parents who did the projects. I thank them now for giving me the skills I needed.

reminds me of the story where the emperor who loves flowers is reaching the end of his life and gives all the kids seeds to plant, all of them go home plant their seeds, time passes, the kids return to the palace to show the emperor their wonderful lush plants... that is all but one who the emperor approaches and asks why his pot is empty and the child replies that he tried and tried but just could not get the seed to grow.... the emperor replies that that is good because he had given boiled seeds (none should have grown) to the children... guess who was to became the next emperor?

Honesty is the best thing in life and having a child do their own work is honesty. You are doing a good thing!

There is a book by Demi on that. The Empty Pot, it's called. I use that for character education.

Why would you want your kids to not learn? Help, guide, scaffold, but don't do the homework. How will your kid feel proud of him/herself?

I totally agree with you. ANd have heard the term 'scaffolding' a few times (not here), but I have never really understood what it meant- can you elaborate here, please?

I don't do my kids homework at all as I've always thought that it is their responsibility, but I'm concerned that maybe I'm not providing them with the tools they need to complete their work, kwim? :o

I have to say, I really, really disagree with our school's policy of homework from Year 1, so I suppose that influences me too. I can understand a five-year-old practicing writing the letter 'A'. I can't understand the same child being responsible for putting together a poster presentation, & it's sad that a school that expects that of young children, imo.

I totally agree with you. ANd have heard the term 'scaffolding' a few times (not here), but I have never really understood what it meant- can you elaborate here, please?



I'm sorry, "scaffolding" is teacher jargon. I should explain. Vygotsky, a Russian psychologist, highly influential in education, came up with that term. It means assisting students heavily and easing up little by little until the student is fully independent of a task. For example, we hold both the handle and the seat of the bicycle that our child is learning to ride on, then just the seat, then nothing at all- just staying very close. Then, we stay behind and watch our child ride.

I agree- why do kindergartners have to put together a presentation? That's annoying. The teachers grumble about it too in the lounge. But policy is policy, whether it's a good idea or not.

Ugh, I remember this problem when *I* was in school. My best friend's dad was one of the head muckety mucks at the school board and I clearly remember her saying that he did her whole science project for her because it "had to look good" since she was ___'s dd.

Even whenn I was homeschooling my oldest, he participated in a scinece fair and the other projects seemed SO parent-led, if not totally done by parents. Ds' was very juvenilein comparison. Looking back now, I am SURE those other projects had to be done by parents. :(

Ugh, I remember this problem when *I* was in school. My best friend's dad was one of the head muckety mucks at the school board and I clearly remember her saying that he did her whole science project for her because it "had to look good" since she was ___'s dd.

Even whenn I was homeschooling my oldest, he participated in a scinece fair and the other projects seemed SO parent-led, if not totally done by parents. Ds' was very juvenilein comparison. Looking back now, I am SURE those other projects had to be done by parents. :(
I wouldn't make that assumption about homeschoolers- though certainly it's possible that some of them were made by the parents. Remember that HSed kids can spend a whole week doing nothing but the project if they want to- they're not trying to squeeze in project time after school and juggle it with other homework.

ITA about kids and homework though. I'm constantly telling my kids that I'm not going to double check their homework and if they get something wrong it really is OK.

Thank you for that explanation of scaffolding, kmeyrick, that makes a lot of sense in context of previous things I've heard.

And Ruthla, I don't like to check my kids homework either, but sometimes they ask me & so I do offer my honest opinion then. But mostly I would prefer that they put forth the best they can without my input.

I love the term "scaffolding"...what a great visual it creates! My dd just completed her first home=to-school project, and the instructions allowed for this to be a family experience if we wished. DD came up with the ideas, we helped get materials, gently assisted, but the project is hers and she feels good about it. The next project will certainly be more independent as she now has one experience in her "tool kit" to draw from.

What I dislike is when they send projects home that the kids obviously cannot complete. It's like the teacher is giving ME homework. I have four kids.. I don't have time to make meaningless posters because the teacher couldn't assign something more age appropriate.

When the project is age appropriate I will help my child with it.. but I have always made them do the majority of the work.

Although I do remember my mom spending HOURS AND HOURS on my brother's mission when he was in the fourth grade. My brother did help...but it wasn't something he could make on his own.

Although I do remember my mom spending HOURS AND HOURS on my brother's mission when he was in the fourth grade. My brother did help...but it wasn't something he could make on his own.

Ha, ha. The famous fourth grade mission project. When dss was in 4th I specifically asked his teacher how much help she expected parents to give because I knew that some of those missions were going to come back looking like perfect architectual models.

Ha, ha. The famous fourth grade mission project. When dss was in 4th I specifically asked his teacher how much help she expected parents to give because I knew that some of those missions were going to come back looking like perfect architectual models.

Yea.. we got lazy with DD1. We found one at a craft store that she could put together on her own.

My mom owned a craft store when my brother was in fourth so his was one of those perfect architectural models you were talking about.

Yea.. we got lazy with DD1. We found one at a craft store that she could put together on her own.

My mom owned a craft store when my brother was in fourth so his was one of those perfect architectural models you were talking about.

Dss's teacher said "no kits." It is so funny that there are companies whose entire job seems to be making supplies for the 4th grade mission project. There is 1/2 an aisle in Michael's dedicated to it. Some of the missions in dss's class had working lights and tiled roofs! Dss made his out of sugar cubes. It did take parent help but he felt like he was doing most of the work.

I have mixed feelings about this. My sister did a science fair project in 5th grade about the cephalic index of vairious people and my mom made her do everything, including all the math.

My sister was disqualified or marked down (can't remember exactly) at the district science fair because it was said that it couldn't have been done without a parents help.

So you never know ...

Originally Posted by aniT View Post "Although I do remember my mom spending HOURS AND HOURS on my brother's mission when he was in the fourth grade. My brother did help...but it wasn't something he could make on his own."

Ha, ha. The famous fourth grade mission project. When dss was in 4th I specifically asked his teacher how much help she expected parents to give because I knew that some of those missions were going to come back looking like perfect architectual models.

eek!! what is a 4th grade mission project??

What I dislike is when they send projects home that the kids obviously cannot complete. It's like the teacher is giving ME homework. I have four kids.. I don't have time to make meaningless posters because the teacher couldn't assign something more age appropriate.

yes its annoying! i also worry for when they get older and the homework i am supposed to help them with is to complicated for me to do. which at this rate should be about 5th grade..

eek!! what is a 4th grade mission project??

4th graders in California are assigned one of the state numerous missions. They must do a report on their mission and build a model of it. DD's mission ended up being in SF, an hour away, so we visited it and she got to add pictures of it to her report.

And it continues much farther on when it's started so young.... I have a coworker, who did her SENIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL's homework (I'm talking reading books for book reports, researching stuff online, etc, etc) - and then WONDERED why he did so badly on the ACT's.... :dizzy:

I'm constantly telling my kids that I'm not going to double check their homework and if they get something wrong it really is OK.

I agree with you. I tell my son the same thing. My 5th grade DS did a poster on his own, to his level. The next day, his teacher called us in and had him do it all over. I helped him with it by doing the lettering and some of the finer detailed work to see if that was what she was looking for. Sure enough, pleased as heck with it...it looks just like the rest of the posters hung up...that were clearly done by parents. It is disheartening to him and very iriitating to me. I have already been to school. I want him to learn, now!

I am now a first grade teacher, but I recently taught library. So many kids are so used to having project done for them that when I was making paper flowers for pete's sake at least ten approached me to make the petals for them.

My aunt, who was just visiting my mom, actually did her daughter's science project while visiting. No, the daughter was not there. My aunt mailed herself her daughter's science books and did all the research and wrote the report while visiting. I looked at my one-year-olds and said (not within earshot of the aunt, I'm not that snarky) "I hope you two don't expect me to do your 8th grade science project. I did one 8th grade science project and that was enough for one life."

I had a parent yell at me because she had spent two hours researching her daughter's English paper and the topic was too hard. I was thinking, "Your daughter is in AP English. This is supposed to be a college level course. She picked the topic from a list. Yes, it's hard. And why were you doing it for her?"

When my dd was in 2nd grade, her teacher didn’t assign any homework. She was of the opinion that she didn’t have time to waste “grading the parents”. How I miss her!

I am sending my kids to school so that they can make friends and maybe learn a few things, but I'm not going to get in a tizzy about academics. I think homework is, well, a stupid invention. They've got 6+ hours in school, minus about 40 minutes for lunch. My kids' school has no real behavior problems (the main reason I chose it) and strict behavior guidelines, so there isn't a lot of "wasted" time on discipline. So why they heck do they need to send home homework?

So I'm not going to even blink if someone does their child's homework... it's all unnecessary anyway. I would love to banish homework, at least from elementary school!