Women of Color #12

[eilonwy]

Two years is long enough, no? :lol

Women of Color #11 (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=389823&page=28). If nothing else, it ought to be up for a record. :o

[purplegirl]

Two years is long enough, no? :lol

Women of Color #11 (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=389823&page=28). If nothing else, it ought to be up for a record. :o

thank you! Happy New Year to you and yours:Hug

[FroNuff]

Happy New Year, everyone! I hope it's a happy, healthy and prosperous year for all. :love

Hey oyinmama! You've reminded me that I absolutely need some more Greg Juice. It's been way too long since I had some. :o

Congrats, boobmommi! Time to change your sig. :wink

[eilonwy]

School starts again today. Break was at once too long and too short. Funny how that works. :o

[Halfasianmomma]

...except i'm only half colourful :D

[purplegirl]

...except i'm only half colourful :D

Welcome Halfasianmomma. It's perfectly okay with us that you are "only half colourful"!:hola:

[splendid]

That was the longest thread I ever started. *sniff*

Happy New Year ladies! My this year bring you all health and joy!

[shayinme]

Happy New Years ladies! I have been absent from this thread for a bit but hope to catch up soon.

Shay

[JustKiya]

Happy New Years Ladies!

Wonderful idea to start a new thread, Rhynna!

[jeca]

Jumping in while I still remember to do so.

[Sugarshoc]

Happy happy everyone!!!

[eilonwy]

...except i'm only half colourful :D

;) I've got pictures on Facebook; I lean toward the pale myself. :o I just can't wrap my head around a 'white' identity though, so colorful I am. :thumb Welcome. :D

Wonderful idea to start a new thread, Rhynna!

It was marie's idea, actually; I just happened to be awake after midnight. ;) (So what else is new? :lol)

[daricsmami]

HAPPY NEW YEAR, everyone! :champagne

I haven't posted in a really long time (but I have been lurking), so I just wanted to say howdy! :)

[Halfasianmomma]

Welcome Halfasianmomma. It's perfectly okay with us that you are "only half colourful"!:hola:

Whoohoo! I guess I'm just a big blender mix: mom's Québécois and Irish, dad's Viet and Mongolian...DH is French and gypsy, raised by a Norwegian father...baby's going to be a REAL mix :D

[oyinmama]

sub sub subbing ...

[JustKiya]

sub sub subbing ...

Are you the Oyin hairstuff lady, or does Oyin have an additional meaning I'm unaware of? And congrats on the babe to be!

[purplegirl]

Are you the Oyin hairstuff lady, or does Oyin have an additional meaning I'm unaware of? And congrats on the babe to be!

:yeah::yeah:

[oyinmama]

heh - i am indeed. oyin means 'honey' and it's my online tradition to be 'honeychild' in forums, but that handle was already taken when i was registering here. i tried a couple of permutations and this was the first one that worked. it wasn't until after the fact that i realized i'd be 'outing' myself like that ;)

[jeca]

i'd be 'outing' myself like that ;)

Hmm, I guess it's too early to be saying "discount".:D



Hey we were all thinking it.

[purplegirl]

Hmm, I guess it's too early to be saying "discount".:D



Hey we were all thinking it.

:lol:nod

[JustKiya]

it wasn't until after the fact that i realized i'd be 'outing' myself like that ;)

Heh - rock on!! I LOVEEEEEEE your stuff! Love. Love. Need to buy some more HH, since you have it in the big bottle now....

*wanders off feeling like she met a celebrity* :lol

[daricsmami]

Oooh! I love Oyin! Congrats on the pregnancy. :) :)

[oyinmama]

:love thanks for the welcome, ladies! you know, there is always a discount code at the end of the latest podcast, which is good until the next podcast is posted. they're usually between 5 and 10%; the current one (podcast5holiday) is for 8% off. i know it's not the holidays anymore, but we're late recording our new year episode! :o

speaking of which, how was everybody's holiday? i know fronuff and boobmommi welcomed their new little ones - congratulations!! we just [endured] enjoyed a steady parade of houseguests and are thrilled to have survived. for two people who self-identify as utter hermits and had planned to videochat our way into far-flung family gatherings in between cuddling up and roasting chestnuts all alone, it was quite a stretch! ;)

in other news, we're super excited abt the babe - the belly is on swole and he's kicking up a storm. we're about to join our local Y so i can swim for exercise... normally we take a 2 mile walk 2 or 3 times a week, but since it's gotten cold we've totally fallen off. i can feel myself becoming less fit than i was a couple of months ago and that scares me... i think part of me feels like i have to prepare for birth like i'm preparing for a marathon!

[eilonwy]

I'm irritated by the holidays. This year, for a change, it has nothing to do ith the inlaws. :o

[JustKiya]

We don't celebrate the holidays, which lends to a VERY peaceful season.... I certainly enjoyed the time off, though.

[NishaG]

We don't celebrate the holidays, which lends to a VERY peaceful season.... I certainly enjoyed the time off, though.

:yeah:

Hello, everyone! I'm kinda new here, and I mostly lurk. Just wanted to say hi from Cali!

[purplegirl]

Welcome NishaG. It's always nice to have new members:love

My holidays were awesome, if not a little exhausting. I recently moved into a new home so my abode was the designated place to do everything. I enjoyed every moment, got lots of help, but it just plain wore me out.
I love it but purchasing an older home comes with many travails and can cost lots of money trying to update it. We had the entire downstairs painted because frankly, it was butt ugly. We have at least put our flair on the lower level, but it will take a lot of time to get the upstairs in order. I still have boxes of crap that I need to sort through:crap

My best to all of you.

I miss Ericka. I hope she'll check in soon!!

[purplegirl]

I forgot to say Oyin products rock!! I'll be placing an order soon.:energy: Congratulations on your little one mama~~how sweet:love

[jeca]

Our holiday was good. We decided not to anywhere so that made things very peaceful. I have nothing new going on, nothing exciting I feel so dull compared to the rest of you.:p Other than battling a cold. If I'm the one that's sick why is he the one sleeping in?

[eilonwy]

Because men are such wusses when it comes to illness that the illnesses of *others* make them weak and tired? :duck:

[heyitstwins]

Hey Ladies!

I can't believe I've bypassed this. Subbing...

Kinda feeling like an outcast lately, so I've been fairly quiet on the boards.

Peace to you all and congrats on all the new babies!!!!!!

[purplegirl]

Hey Ladies!

I can't believe I've bypassed this. Subbing...

Kinda feeling like an outcast lately, so I've been fairly quiet on the boards.

Peace to you all and congrats on all the new babies!!!!!!

Hey. I am so glad to see you over here:hola:! Don't worry about feeling like an outcast--most of us here have felt that way too:Hug

[heyitstwins]

Hey. I am so glad to see you over here:hola:! Don't worry about feeling like an outcast--most of us here have felt that way too:Hug

Thanks!!!

I'm glad to be here. Oh, but to live in 2 worlds.... :wink

We have come close to perfecting this art!

[oyinmama]

welcome, heyitstwins!!!

[eilonwy]

Poor ChibiChibi is all over me about homeschooling again (still?). Even my sister seems to be getting fed up with things-- she told Chibi, upon hearing of one particular (girl) child who is irritating her, that she should punch her in the face. "It's only a two or three day suspension if they call you on it, and she'll probably leave you alone after that." :yikes: I'm kind of flabbergasted by this, you know? All Chibi says is, "Please, just let me go home with Rynna, I'll do anything, I can pack my bag in five minutes, just let me go with her. . ." :guilty No matter how unappealing I try to make it sound, she knows it'd be better than school and she's absolutely right. :shrug BizzyBug's been having problems in school as well, but hers are more related to her autism than to other kids. :eyesroll Like that's so much better. :shake

Mike is still unemployed, and we still don't know where we're going to be living at the end of the month. :eyesroll I don't like thinking about it. :gloomy: It makes my brain hurt. Oh, and SeaMonkey is trying to escape. :guilty :nono Silly baby! He needs to stay in for a few more weeks. At least. :fingersx:

[libraleoloving]

hi guys. i'm new in these parts but i thought a mommies of color post is a good place for me to get started. first, because i am brown and second, because my particular pregancy issues seem to be particular to "us".

we're waiting a week to confirm what my symptoms suggest. however, in the meantime i am looking for all the info/support i can find about fibroids and pregnancy.

you can see my mini-backstory here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=10311748#post10311748 eta: link fixt

any suggestions about books/websites/support groups/etc in my endeavor to not have a myoectomy and a full term birth and healthy baby?

[JustKiya]

:w Libra - your link seems to be broken.... :( and I'm sorry, I am of no help with the fibroids issue....

[splendid]

Wow Rynna, that is a lot. Do you guys want to stay in state or would you be willing to move where the work is. I hope things start coming together for your nieces and that baby stays in a little longer.

[AndrewsMother]

Hello,
I am so pleased to have found this thread! I generally do not have time to do more than read, but I hope to post more in the future. I am a full time work and student mom and wife. My time is not really my own. I do hope to post more in the near future.

[purplegirl]

Hello,
I am so pleased to have found this thread! I generally do not have time to do more than read, but I hope to post more in the future. I am a full time work and student mom and wife. My time is not really my own. I do hope to post more in the near future.


Welcome Paid! It sounds like you have a busy life but don't stay in lurkdom! We love having new members.

Rynna, how are you? I wonder if you've had your little one yet and how things are with your living situation. :hug

[eilonwy]

:shake You don't wanna know. But no, SeaMonkey's still a SeaMonkey.

[purplegirl]

:shake You don't wanna know. But no, SeaMonkey's still a SeaMonkey.

:hug

[eilonwy]

:bump:

Still in the same place, only slightly more urgently now. No idea where we're going, but the lease is up on 31 Jan. :gloomy: I'm trying not to think about it...

[ErikaDP]

Hello Sisterfriends,

Sorry it's been so long since I have posted here.
I have been a bit under the weather and I have kept my online "habit" down to the bare minimum.
But I am on the mend so hopefully I will be able to post here more often.
It is so nice to see some new members join us here as well as the return of some members that I hadn't seen around MDC forums that I frequent in a while.
Thanks to all that kept this thread going.
Unfortunately, I have my son calling me to give him a hand right now, so I will have to come back later to finish my thoughts.

Take Care,
Erika :afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

[ajv]

We are an african american family. we are older parents, professionals, politically liberal and socially conservative. our biggest challenge is staying afrocentric in our white rural community and raising kids with positive self-esteems.

anyway, i went to barnes and noble two days ago while my husband was "in town" on business and bot myself a mothering magazine as a treat. of course, i have read it cover to cover. i had forgotten all about this message board...i am not sure i would have know what to do, if even i knew about it previously. i havent seen the magazine in years. i was pregnant when we moved to colorado from new mexico and overwhelmed with life--had no time for magazines. anyway. i have two kiddos age 2 ds and 6 months dd, we breastfeed, cloth diaper part time, we are more AP than our parents, but not as much as alot of others. we plan to home school. i just started using mama cloth. i am addicted to diaperswappers.com

(sigh) sorry to be so wordy.

[purplegirl]

:wave Glad you made it over here!

[shayinme]

Welcome. More later but getting dd ready for bed. I will add that as a sista in Maine which is hardlly a hotbed of diversity I can relate to the need for a tribe.

Shay

[oyinmama]

welcome, ajv!

[eilonwy]

I've just had the craziest two weeks... but i think we're on the mend now. I *think*. :dizzy: It's a very long story, though, and i'm only posting it once... so it's going in the blog. :lol Hope all is well with you ladies!

[ajv]

i read your story, praise God you made it thru that. it is so good that your baby can nurse without problems, sometimes we forget to be thankful for the little things. i am going to be tonite glad to be alive.

[JustKiya]

:hug Rhynna - amazing!

Random thought/question that ran through my mind tonight - how is your hair done, tonight?

Mine is up airdrying in five fat braids after a rather strenous washing & combing session.

[eilonwy]

My hair's just in a ponytail. I'm about to take it out so that I can sleep half-way sitting up, in a position that's slightly less uncomfortable than the others. :o

[purplegirl]

Hey Rynna, I have been keeping up with you via your blog. Big hugs to you mama and congratulations on your new baby boy!:love I hope life is a little easier on you:hug

[shayinme]

:hug Rhynna - amazing!

Random thought/question that ran through my mind tonight - how is your hair done, tonight?

Mine is up airdrying in five fat braids after a rather strenous washing & combing session.

I have locs at the moment its in a ponytail, one big messy one.

Shay

[oyinmama]

hey rhynna - wow you have had a really rollercoaster few weeks!!

i'm glad to see things are settling down again, and big congrats on yr new little boy - he's born on my bday so already he's cool in my book. ;)


my hair today is in a set of large cornrows that are quite fuzzy and have no business, really, still being in.

[ajv]

okay i need some help, can you tell me is there something i should be doing so i dont have to scroll down each and every time to view this thread. is there a way for the most recent posting to be first? i am not very tech savy, so keep your instructions basic...thanks. ajv

my hair is all over my head, i go to denver next month and will have my cousin (who is a beautician) cut it short--much like the old halle berry, but at 300 pounds...

[Sugarshoc]

Rynna,

Your birth story was like reading an adventure novel. Whoa!!! I am soooo happy you are doing much better. Keep well girl.

[eilonwy]

my hair is all over my head, i go to denver next month and will have my cousin (who is a beautician) cut it short--much like the old halle berry, but at 300 pounds...

:lol Yesterday I held my ChunkityButt niece for a while, and she was pulling my hair, making noises at it. Of course this made me laugh, because my sister wears her hair very short, a la Halle Berry of old these days. :o Chunkity was just fascinated by my hair because i've got a heck of a lot more of it than her mother. :lol

Bear is so sweet! I'm smitten with him. :) I'm planning a slow day today... meaning I'm not getting out of bed for anything more interesting than the toilet. :o Wish me luck. :lol

[Kia74]

I've been MIA for quite awhile but I'm so glad that I found you all!

For those of you who don't know me I live in a suburb of Atlanta and am mom to a daughter who will be 5 on Sat and 3.5 year old boy. We were seriously contemplating a move to FL but have decided to stay here but hopefully will move into a bigger house in our neighborhood.

We were traveling a lot the past 6 months, first b/c of the possible relocation and then b/c the kids weren't in pre school. Now that we are settled it's time to think about a third baby, in preparation I've lost about 35 lbs. I've gotten pregnant heavier than I am now but would really like to loose some more weight before conceiving again. My husband is on board and since he was my eating buddy that has made a world of difference. Of course I'm mad b/c we're doing the same thing and he's lost more :D

Congratulations to all the new babies. Eilonwy, I'd still like 4 kiddos so I'll have to read your blog so see how you are faring. And oyinmama, I'm another thrilled customer. Geographically, we've been all over the place and my hair looks like it. Now that we're home it's time for me to order some more of your fantastic products. And that's not empty flattery :wink, I'm 99% I raved about your goods here when I first found them. Am glad that you found us!

I hope you all write and let us know how you and your families are doing,

Take Care

Kia

[eilonwy]

My little Bear (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=15532&id=598712846)

Life is completely and totally insane. I'm horribly depressed and things are very very complicated. I suppose it's mostly my fault, I've always had a tendancy to complicate things. I don't even know what else to say... things are pretty damned screwy. :shrug The baby is cute, though. They're all cute, actually, but the baby is warm and snuggly and delicious. :o

[purplegirl]

Hey Kia. It's good to hear from you! How is Joey? Please send her my regards if you speak with her.

I am doing well. It seems all I do these days is work. I gotta schedule some time to play cause this is getting tired!

Rynna, I'd love to see pics of baby Bear. I added you as a friend on Facebook.

My best to all.
~Lisa~

[jeca]

my hair is all over my head, i go to denver next month and will have my cousin (who is a beautician) cut it short--much like the old halle berry, but at 300 pounds...

What part of colorado do you live in right now?

Congrats on your birth Rynna, sorry I'm so late. DH had another surgery last monday to correct something they messed up last july :eyesroll. He's been a baby and I've been bit%$y otherwise nothing new here.

[ajv]

i live near la junta, i hour west of kansas/colorado border. no mtns here, just farms and cattle. one good thing about "green acres" as my family calls it. is my hubby drives to work (14 miles) and we have only one car, so most of the time i am clueless regarding the rise in gas prices. in our old life, i filled up our suv each week and would practically faint or cuss every time. he fills up every 12-14 days. we have been church shopping, we have two more churches to visit then we decide. it will be nice to settle down.

congrats on your weight loss to the mama trying to conceive.

[jeca]

I live north of you in the Springs, plenty of mountains here very few farms. Technically I live on the base but same area.

[barose]

:wave

[purplegirl]

:wave

Welcome Barose! Glad to have you join us!

[FroNuff]

Hey Lisa and Shay, I just noticed y'all are now mods/granola ambassadors! Go on wit' your bad selves! :D

Hi Kia, I remember you. Glad to see you're doing well. :)

Jeca, I hope that's the end of the surgeries for your husband. How are you and your kiddos doing?

[purplegirl]

Hey Lisa and Shay, I just noticed y'all are now mods/granola ambassadors! Go on wit' your bad selves! :D

Hi Kia, I remember you. Glad to see you're doing well. :)

Jeca, I hope that's the end of the surgeries for your husband. How are you and your kiddos doing?


Hey woman:wave Thanks for the shout out:love Yes, I am all modified!

[AndrewsMother]

Are any of you all living in Houston, TX?

[ajv]

hi mamas,
i went to denver for a week. visited the relatives (which was completely BEARABLE--praise God--long story, boundaries work). got my cousin to give me the "old school" halle berry hair cut (she is a cosmotologist). My hubby was at a convention and i ran a lot of errands. we were looking forward to getting back to our cornfield after one week in the big city. :cold:
one thing we did do was go to the children's museum. they have a excellent playground set that is like a pirate ship. so i have to drag my 2 yo past the play ground equip to get to the museum. (he is kicking and screaming b/c he loves pirates) inside the museum it is $7.50 for him to enter--more for me, free for the baby. so i say to myself, why am i doing this...i turn right around (without paying) and let him play on the playground equipment for over an hour for FREE. it was a great day, there were lots of kids (schools, etc...) So if you are ever in Denver with a preschooler i highly recommend the playground IN FRONT OF the children's museum. lol.

we probably found a church, it is small, they dont have a pastor, but one of the members is an extended breastfeeder who homeschools. She has eight kids (one is AA, adopted), will leave in 1.5 years to be a medical missionary in the Sudan with her physician hubby, but my husband says since she and i are so compatible we have to go to that church. plus one other AA family attends and they probably have the most non white members of any other church we have attended--still only a handful. they have playground equipment in back of the church that my son liked. He is a late talker, but i am sure his vote would be for this church too.

[shayinme]

Ajv, glad to hear that you have found a possible church home. I have been looking for 6 years here in Maine and am really starting to get discouraged big time. In 6 years we have gone to 7 churches, only one was a one time deal.. Two of the 7 were churches we faithfully attended for over a year at one we started the process of becoming official members but stopped when I could no longer longer put off the nagginng feeling that most of the members were not receptive to me as a Black woman. :( No one ever said anything but after being there a year through a pregnancy and birth, I never went beyond hellos at church, I would see people from church outside (our town is only 16K) and people would never say hello or ignore me.

Pretty much at every church except for the non-denominational turned Pentecoastal church this has been the issue. (left that church when it was clear it was Pentecoastal)

A church buddy of mine from the Pentescoastal church has just found a new church home and we have gone several times and its the same old crap, actually a few weeks ago we went and they had the say hello and shake a hand period and the woman next to me blatantly went out of her way to bot shake my hand :irked::(. I left mid way through the service.

Honestly I am pondering going to the UU church because I have done community work with the UU's and they at least seem decent, not like all the churches I have gone to here. The only problem is that I am a born again Christian so doctrinally a UU church doesn't quite meet my spiritual needs but I miss fellowshipping with others. My only other hope for possible local church home is the locall UCC congregation, I have met the pastor and he seemed real, not the usual lets tame the savage negro vibe I get from my most church folks our here. (guess my locs my scare folks :wink) Honestly its pretty dang discouraging. So I sit at home on Easter Sunday wishing I had a church home but will do something here at home to mark the day.

On to other things, both kids are home this week, my son is on springbreak and came home from his Dad's and the little one is thrilled to have her big brother home. My son is once again stating he plans to finish high school living with me, so if all goes well this summer he will be moving in.. it will be a battle, his Dad really wants him to stay with him, but at 16 ds IMO has a voice.

Finally reached my WW goal, took off 40 lbs, down a bunch of sizes though I am convinced someone is tweaking the sizes, when I was this weight before I was a 8, now I am a 6, I ain't complaining though.

Hope everyone is well, been so bad about posting over here too busy in Politics.

Just wanted to say hey Kia, glad to see you around here again, hey to FroNuff, yeah we are diversifying the place :wink, or as my dh said its official you spend too much time online these days.

Shay

[jeca]

Honestly I am pondering going to the UU church because I have done community work with the UU's and they at least seem decent, not like all the churches I have gone to here.



There is a very nice UU church here that I have been wanting to visit for a while. They are always involved with community projects and I have read a few of their services online and it seems nice. I have to say that I am really put off by their lack of minority members. I have been to a handful of AA churches and I just can't understand why we need to "church" from 1030-3. It's just too long for me. My mother really wanted to me to a service today but I refuse to be one of those people that skip church all year just to show up on Easter Sunday. :eyesroll

:cold: Doesn't feel at all like Easter here when I have snow in my backyard.

[ajv]

Shay,
i am so sorry you havent found a church home. if i lived in maine i would go to church with you.:love reading your post reminded me to ask my husband if it is okay if we attend this church but never join. he said yes. we have made a commitment as a family to go to/visit an AA church whenever we are out of town for the sake of our kids. I will pray that you find a Christian church were you can feel you belong.
our church hopping consisted on going to all the churches we have been invited to by strangers and friends...i do have to admit that when i meet liberal minded people i ask them if they go to church and where (like the caucus, dr. ofc, etc). our plan "y" was to go to a presbyterian or episcopal church that has a woman as the pastor (there are two of them in town). they are so so boring, but at least their christian and must have somewhat of an open mind to have a woman pastor. "our plan "z" was to go to a mennonite or quaker church--at least they have a history of being anti-slavery. we arent pacifists, but thankfully we havent gotten that far...

we loved the united church of christ congregation that we visited, but i dont agree about not being able to praise God with musical instruments. so it slowly moved its way down our list. we will visit there tho.

if you do find a church let me kno, so i can stop praying.

congrats on your weight loss, i have yet to start my weight loss journey. i have started aerobics one day a week--all i can afford time wise. my hubby takes off work early to watch to kids for 1 hour. i have been doing it for 3 weeks now. its a start. i have about 100 pounds to lose...but who is counting:D

happy easter.

[purplegirl]

Happy Easter to all who celebrate.
I, too am struggling with finding a church where I feel comfortable. I had been attending services with The Friends--Quakers. I really enjoyed it but I moved further away and it just takes too much time to get there. I have pondered visiting the UU church in my new town but have procrastinated. My neighbors invited me to attend their United Methodist Church. It is predominantly white, but very liberal so that might be a good fit for me. It is also five minutes from my house.
Shay, congratulations on the impressive weight loss. I am working hard at taking off 40 pounds. So far, so good. I have a thyroid problem which makes it extremely hard to lose weight even if I were to starve myself, it would be a slow process. Nonetheless, I feel good about my progress thus far.

Blessings to all of you.
~Lisa~

[shayinme]

There is a very nice UU church here that I have been wanting to visit for a while. They are always involved with community projects and I have read a few of their services online and it seems nice. I have to say that I am really put off by their lack of minority members. I have been to a handful of AA churches and I just can't understand why we need to "church" from 1030-3. It's just too long for me. My mother really wanted to me to a service today but I refuse to be one of those people that skip church all year just to show up on Easter Sunday. :eyesroll

:cold: Doesn't feel at all like Easter here when I have snow in my backyard.

I had to laugh when I read this, as a kid we never went to church but when I was 17 my Dad went to seminary and became a pastor. His church services were about an hour and a half tops which in Black church time is brief. I do recall attending my Granny's church and man, the service was hours long..you needed to eat breakfast and pack a lunch and that's no joke.

Yeah, I have always found the idea of just showing up on Easter a bit funny, even here in white churches, church is packed on Easter.

There is a AA church in Portland but I am not fond of the pastor since I know him because he used to be on the board of the agency I used to run so just on GP I refuse to go to his church. They do have good music though.

Ajv, its interesting that you mentioned the episcopal church as that is nother one I am interested in looking at, a local one that a friend attends at one one point had a Latino woman as an associate pastor but I have never made it over there.

You woukld think with tons of churches thar finding a church home would be easy but its sooo difficult. The funny thing is that I am contemplating applying to seminary yet have no church home :D.

Shay

[purplegirl]

I totally do not get the idea of spending half the day in church. I grew up in a Lutheran church that was white. We had services for an hour and I left feeling fulfilled. I would love to go to church with my mom (methodist) but when they finish at 1p.m. they consider that getting out early! Does staying in church longer equate with being more religious? I don't think so! lol

[eilonwy]

:wave I'm back. Meh.

[purplegirl]

:wave I'm back. Meh.

Hey woman. How are you?

[eilonwy]

:bag:

[Southern_Belle]

Hi All,

Just wanted to pop in. I've been meaning to introduce myself in this thread but never got around to it. Timely that your current topic of discussion is chruches...

I currently reside in NYC...grew up in the South in an AME Church, and recently visited a UU Church. Asie from the lack of minority faces, I truly enjoyed the service. DH and I discussed whether or not we would go back b/c of the lack of familiar faces, and we had to do take an internal inventory of the reasons we were seeking this particular type of church in the first place and the answer was already decided for us.

Our child to be (Septmber - yay!) will definitely see a plethora of familiar faces (we both did as young ones - both growing up in areas where we were practically the only color in a sea of everything but) - but what is important to us, is a specific foundation for their nuturing and development.

Not to jump into this thread and raise sand, but I do want to pose a question or two...As Moms and Moms-to-be, what is it you are seeking in a church or congregation that would keep you from attending? Or what is it that keeps you in an AA church, even when you are not 100% fulfilled.

Just curious. 'm really asking because I have to be in that mindset where it's not just about me, but about my family, and I'm still getting there. Perhaps you'll put forth some things I haven't given enough thought to.

[shayinme]

Not to jump into this thread and raise sand, but I do want to pose a question or two...As Moms and Moms-to-be, what is it you are seeking in a church or congregation that would keep you from attending? Or what is it that keeps you in an AA church, even when you are not 100% fulfilled.

Just curious. 'm really asking because I have to be in that mindset where it's not just about me, but about my family, and I'm still getting there. Perhaps you'll put forth some things I haven't given enough thought to.

Personally I would like to feel like I am spritually being fed, to feel like I am growing spirtually is really the key for me. Practically I want to feel it works with having a rambunctious 2.5 yo, in other words is it kid friendly. Also I want to feek welcomed not tolerated, that is something I have struggled with for the past 6 years in all the churches I have attended. I don't really care about whether or not its an AA church but I am sick and tired of being in the place where I have gone to the same church for over a year and despite trying to make connections, it doesn't happen. That deep sense I feel like I really am not wanted here :(, that I can no longer deal with and that is part of what is driving me as a born again Christian to consider a UU church.. at least the members there treat me like a human.

More later since I gotta get dd down for bed in a few.

Shay

[oyinmama]

hi, lovelies.

uhm...

what does UU stand for??

*ducking tomatoes*

[purplegirl]

hi, lovelies.

uhm...

what does UU stand for??

*ducking tomatoes*

Hey woman. Long time no see on MDC. I hope you are well. UU stands for Unitarian Universalist church.

[oyinmama]

thanks so much, purplegirl!

yeah i haven't been online so much lately; things have been hectic as heck around here!! our EDD is the 24th so we're in the home stretch, but it seems there's just more and more things to do - getting ready for the babe, as well as lots of life changes occurring - the closer we get to the end.

hanging in there... ;)

[jeca]

The reason I have thought to try a UU(also known as Universal Unitarian) is generally they are more tolerable of different cultures, religions and lifestyle preferences. I attended what I thought was a very nice Church once and one sunday service they started spewing about gay's and what they are doing to our "christian society", I left. My children were in attendance at that service and I won't have them taught hate of anyone. I believe everyone has a right to their own religion and lifestyle preference and it is not my place to shame them and I don't want my children taught it is their place either. I also need a place that's child friendly( nursery or youth ministry is great) and that doesn't last all midmorning to afternoon. I know that many churches have a strong stance against gays or other religions but I don't think it has to be "taught" or preached at a service. SO I guess I'm just looking for a place with my own views of to each their own and your way doesn't mean that you or I am wrong. A place that feels like we don't need to "save" everyone.
I also want to find a place that touches me. You ever been to that one good service and before you know it you were crying and not really know why but you just felt like your heart was touched? I miss that I want to find that place again. Maybe I'm asking for to much.

[purplegirl]

thanks so much, purplegirl!

yeah i haven't been online so much lately; things have been hectic as heck around here!! our EDD is the 24th so we're in the home stretch, but it seems there's just more and more things to do - getting ready for the babe, as well as lots of life changes occurring - the closer we get to the end.

hanging in there... ;)

Good luck mama! I am excited for you. Please keep us posted and let us know when your little one arrives:love

[Southern_Belle]

Thanks for the replies ladies!

I can honestly say I really enjoyed the UU service that I went to, but in a perfect world, I would definitely want to see more brown faces.

I thought it was interesting that at the service I went to, one of the things they mentioned was a goal over the next few years was to increase minority membership. I had a 2 fold reaction - one, I thought it was nice that they were not some insulated, either close-minded or completely unaware community, but two - I didn't want to turn into some poster child...but I loved the feel and "character" of the congregation...

We'll see what develops.

@ shayinme and jeca, good points. Feeling welcomed vs tolerated is crucial. And your sentiments on being "touched" in a service hit home.

[ajv]

well, its a cultural base, idea. the gospel music, the "inside" jokes, seeing other AA families struggling and making it. Business connections. i like the idea of my kids seeing AA of all ages and walks of life who love God. It definitely affects their self esteem...when they can immulate the teenage boy/girl on the drill team or see the deacons at the men's breakfast. in new mexico we were in church ALL DAY and we complained constantly...now i miss it soo soo much.

Boy, no church is perfect but i would get my personal spiritual fulfillment elsewhere just to have that cultural foundation for my kids.

[ErikaDP]

Hello Sisterfriends,

The past month or so has been a particularly trying time for me and my whole family.
I have been away from the list for a while and I wanted to explain why.
In late February, we heard about the passing of two really great family friends on opposite US coasts. And I would like to share a little about each of them here.

Willie Allen was one of the "rocks of fatherhood" in my life.
He was(is) a true example of what it is to be a loving and caring father, grandfather, husband and friend. He was always there for his family and the larger community in Seattle. His community development plans, ideals and contacts are still being used all around the city by a new generation of civic activists some 40+ years after he started his life's work in the 60's.
He is being mourned by all who knew and love him. I personally will miss his sound wisdom, wonderful conversations, his great encouragement and his friendship for the rest of my life.
And even though he personally was not an unschooler, he encouraged
all of the people that he knew to bring the best that they had to
offer to the table in our community and to make it work for all of
us.
He was always encouraging me to follow my passions and he was one of
the people in my life that really respected the fact that one did not have to have a certain set of "paper credentials" to be an active participant in finding and implementing solutions in community life and in ones personal life.

Lisa Heyman on the other hand, was a radical unschooler.
She lived her whole life as a seeker/inspirer of JOY!
The light that she shared with all that she touched(and many of the "touched" never had the pleasure to meet her in person)is thing of beauty.
She gave so much to the unschooling community, particularly here in
the NE.
I always felt that I was one of the lucky ones to have had her as "real life sisterfriend", one that I could count on for support when I needed someone who would not let me doubt myself and/or our unschooling journey as a family.
She truly touched me in a way that few in my life have, always challenging me to go further, trust more, live fuller and to be present in all that my life has to offer.
But what I will miss the most about Lisa is the laughter. She just had a way of spreading the joy of life that was truly remarkable.
Even when we were discussing matters of a serious nature(she was very ill for some time before she died), she was always able to find a moment of joy, something that would bring a smile to your face during the conversation.
And because she was so joyful, strong and positive, we that were close to her did not see her death as a possibility any time soon.
So it was quite a shock to get the call the day she crossed over.
Her funeral was one that I think I will never forget. So many family and friends were gathered to share with her husband and daughters their love, sorrow and yes great joy in having known such a remarkable woman.
We are all still trying to be there for her husband and daughters as they try to continue their family's unschooling journey without Lisa's physical presence.
And I would really appreciate it if you would include all of them in your thoughts and prayers.

I am truly blessed that I knew both Willie and Lisa as good friends.
In these two friends passings, I have been once again reminded how
unpredictable and precious life is. And also how important it is to
live life to the fullest.
Thanks for reading my tribute to two great friends.

*..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Peace, Love & Light!-:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

Take Care,
Erika :afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

[ErikaDP]

Hello Again,

This is to All of the New Members here:

:grouphug!WELCOME TO THE TRIBE!:grouphug

I hope to see many more posts from you!:thumb

Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

[ShiningStar]

Just checking in after not being around. I don't think I would have found it without a subscription (maybe there's a new thread?). I'm bad about lurking around without posting, but I'm mostly in the Toddler and DDC sections of MDC.

How's everyone doing? I hope this thread becomes active again.

[Bloomingstar]

Hi!

I just found you all and I have to go back and read some of the thread now but I just wanted to pop in. I have been spending my time in TTC and now in the Dec 2008 and Jan 2009 DDC (still figuring that out). Glad to meet you all soon! :D

[Bloomingstar]

I read a few of the older posts and thought I'd chime in :)

I was raised Catholic in New Orleans, which is still definitely a black church experience down there. Fast forward a decade and I am now a much more happily practicing Buddhist within the Soka Gakkai, a lay Nichiren Buddhist organization that I know you're familiar with. If you've seen What's Love Got to Do with It, then you know a little bit about my practice. I chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo as my main practice and there's more to it, but we also do a lot of events together as an organization. When I first started practicing I was really happy when I realized that a lot of our smaller meetings are organized on the neighborhood level, so most of the people I practice with herein Brooklyn are other people of African descent from all over the place. Our organization is really diverse and I appreciated that so much when learning about a new spiritual practice and getting to know a whole new group of people. I also really like that there are activities just for kids and that a lot of focus is placed on youth. I am only just now expecting #1, but it's good to know there'll be something meaningful there for my kids.

[purplegirl]

Hey everyone! Welcome to our new members:wave

[Bloomingstar]

Thanks purplegirl!

[oyinmama]

hi all - just posting a happy birth announcement - i'm a mama!!

his name is osei fysher and me and the hubster are just swooning. he was two weeks old yesterday and is the most delicious little bundle.

birth story link cross-posted from my DDC: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=883150

[shayinme]

Welcome to our new members! Seems we have been quiet around here but hopefully we will pick up soon. I will try to post a little later, life is crazy right now with work and since I am self employed that means little demarcation between home & work.

Shay

[nnaemeka]

congrads Oyinmama (and hubby) on Osei Fysher!!!!

[purplegirl]

hi all - just posting a happy birth announcement - i'm a mama!!

his name is osei fysher and me and the hubster are just swooning. he was two weeks old yesterday and is the most delicious little bundle.

birth story link cross-posted from my DDC: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=883150

Congratulations Oyin! Many blessings to your family.:love
Again, welcome new members. It is always a good thing when we have new family in our tribe.

[Brown Lioness]

*coming out of lurkdom*

:wave Greetings everyone! I like to lurk in this thread because for one i hope to be a part of it someday, lol.

I just wanted to pipe in on the home church search discussion because hubby and I are currently going through this. Tomorrow morning, we are going to visit a church I found online in our area and im kind of apprehensive about it. We've been searching for a TRUE church HOME since we've married and haven't really found it (moving out of state twice didnt help tho :innocent )

I think, some of that has been that we've been lethargic in our search but in other ways its been the churches we've found.

We too have that eerie deep down feeling that we're not welcomed or something....its almost like we are encroaching (sp?) on a family reunion or something. You walk in, smile and look for a place to sit (being careful not to sit too close to the front or any good access spots as for fear of "taking someone's seat"), while possibley being greeted and/or smile or peered at by the church family already there. Usually, you are greeted pretty aggresively by the welcoming usher team because you are obviously new and they want to make sure they greet you, give you all the information welcome packets for the church, ask you a few questions about how you found them and to generally "feel you out" i guess.

Then after church, you usually get greeted again, maybe ushered into a welcoming room for all first time visitors to get more information, ask questions, get refreshments, etc. Or, you just kind of awkwardly smile at passerby church family as you leave.

Sigh, i dunno what hubby and i are looking for really. I guess we want that family feel. We want to be greeted and not accosted, lol. Welcomed but not grilled, introduced and not passed around for inspection, lol.

Above all, of course, we want to be spiritually fed. To us, anything after that is really our preferences, lol. I agree a lot with ajv that i would LOVE to be in a predominantly black church so that our future children can see all kinds of black folk loving God, but im not willing to compromise with fakeness and the psuedo-family feel.

I hope tomorrow goes smoothly, sigh.

[shayinme]

*coming out of lurkdom*

:wave Greetings everyone! I like to lurk in this thread because for one i hope to be a part of it someday, lol.

I just wanted to pipe in on the home church search discussion because hubby and I are currently going through this. Tomorrow morning, we are going to visit a church I found online in our area and im kind of apprehensive about it. We've been searching for a TRUE church HOME since we've married and haven't really found it (moving out of state twice didnt help tho :innocent )

I think, some of that has been that we've been lethargic in our search but in other ways its been the churches we've found.

We too have that eerie deep down feeling that we're not welcomed or something....its almost like we are encroaching (sp?) on a family reunion or something. You walk in, smile and look for a place to sit (being careful not to sit too close to the front or any good access spots as for fear of "taking someone's seat"), while possibley being greeted and/or smile or peered at by the church family already there. Usually, you are greeted pretty aggresively by the welcoming usher team because you are obviously new and they want to make sure they greet you, give you all the information welcome packets for the church, ask you a few questions about how you found them and to generally "feel you out" i guess.

Then after church, you usually get greeted again, maybe ushered into a welcoming room for all first time visitors to get more information, ask questions, get refreshments, etc. Or, you just kind of awkwardly smile at passerby church family as you leave.

Sigh, i dunno what hubby and i are looking for really. I guess we want that family feel. We want to be greeted and not accosted, lol. Welcomed but not grilled, introduced and not passed around for inspection, lol. Above all, of course, we want to be spiritually fed. To us, anything after that is really our preferences, lol. I agree a lot with ajv that i would LOVE to be in a predominantly black church so that our future children can see all kinds of black folk loving God, but im not willing to compromise with fakeness and the psuedo-family feel.

I hope tomorrow goes smoothly, sigh.

I totally can relate especially the parts I bolded, I am tired of feeling like I am being inspected when I go to new churches. I think living in a state like Maine its even more obvious to mme that I am being inspected.. black woman with dreads, white man, biracial kids, its like people see us and they grill us.. nah, so not into that.

So this morning I am contemplating checking out either the UU church or the UCC church.. we will see what happens.

Shay

[purplegirl]

*coming out of lurkdom*

:wave Greetings everyone! I like to lurk in this thread because for one i hope to be a part of it someday, lol.

I just wanted to pipe in on the home church search discussion because hubby and I are currently going through this. Tomorrow morning, we are going to visit a church I found online in our area and im kind of apprehensive about it. We've been searching for a TRUE church HOME since we've married and haven't really found it (moving out of state twice didnt help tho :innocent )

I think, some of that has been that we've been lethargic in our search but in other ways its been the churches we've found.

We too have that eerie deep down feeling that we're not welcomed or something....its almost like we are encroaching (sp?) on a family reunion or something. You walk in, smile and look for a place to sit (being careful not to sit too close to the front or any good access spots as for fear of "taking someone's seat"), while possibley being greeted and/or smile or peered at by the church family already there. Usually, you are greeted pretty aggresively by the welcoming usher team because you are obviously new and they want to make sure they greet you, give you all the information welcome packets for the church, ask you a few questions about how you found them and to generally "feel you out" i guess.

Then after church, you usually get greeted again, maybe ushered into a welcoming room for all first time visitors to get more information, ask questions, get refreshments, etc. Or, you just kind of awkwardly smile at passerby church family as you leave.

Sigh, i dunno what hubby and i are looking for really. I guess we want that family feel. We want to be greeted and not accosted, lol. Welcomed but not grilled, introduced and not passed around for inspection, lol.

Above all, of course, we want to be spiritually fed. To us, anything after that is really our preferences, lol. I agree a lot with ajv that i would LOVE to be in a predominantly black church so that our future children can see all kinds of black folk loving God, but im not willing to compromise with fakeness and the psuedo-family feel.

I hope tomorrow goes smoothly, sigh.


Hi there. I am glad you came out of lurkdom. I've seen you around the board and have always appreciated your perspective on many things. I think you summed up the experience of trying to find a worship center quite well! I have more to say but breakfast is ready so I'll be back in a few.

[Brown Lioness]

Hi there. I am glad you came out of lurkdom. I've seen you around the board and have always appreciated your perspective on many things. I think you summed up the experience of trying to find a worship center quite well! I have more to say but breakfast is ready so I'll be back in a few.


Aw, thank ya kindly, purplegirl, it is very much likewise with you also! :D

Ah, shayinme, you are familiar with the inspection at church too, eh? Today, with the church we visited (more on that later), when they announced the church's welcome to visitors, how come the minister on stage giving the welcome was straight looking at us, like we were the ONLY visitors there or something lol? Gotta love it.

[purplegirl]

Aw, thank ya kindly, purplegirl, it is very much likewise with you also! :D

Ah, shayinme, you are familiar with the inspection at church too, eh? Today, with the church we visited (more on that later), when they announced the church's welcome to visitors, how come the minister on stage giving the welcome was straight looking at us, like we were the ONLY visitors there or something lol? Gotta love it.

Omg. That is crazy but too funny the way you are describing it :lol

[jeca]

Just a jump in to say welcome Brownlioness and Bloomingstar and Congrats to Oyinmama:love

[Brown Lioness]

Thanks for the welcome, jeca! :)

Well, the church we went to today will most likely be our home church, so i think our search is over, lol. We really liked it, we felt welcomed without being grilled and we just genuinely felt like we were being fed truth there.

So we got there and the early morning service was letting out so the parking lot was packed with people leaving and socializing. That was a good sign to us that people were talking to each other and laughing and not just tryna get the heck outta dodge, lol. We parked and walked into the parking lot and hubby asked the church's traffic controller person where we should enter the church and she was this beautiful older lady (black, this church is predominantly black) and after she told us where to go, she gave us hugs! I love hugs! lol

So we make our way in and the opening service prayer had already started so we had to wait a second before entering the sanctuary. The santuary was nice, it wasn't pretentious or anything, it basically looked like a smallish theater, with a stage with a holligram of the church's name on the back wall, and the seating was like theater seating instead of pews or benches. Hubby loved the fact that the arms on the chairs could move up and down (he's a big man, so he was dreading the possible uncomfortable seating).

Praise and worship was GREAT! Not a whole bunch of people begging you to praise, if you praised fine, if you just clapped and smile, that was cool, if you sat and watched that seemed cool as well (hubby did have to sit, he has a bad back). The praise team as well as the church family were in everything from jeans and a shirt to a suit, it just seemed people were mad comfortable, which we really appreciated (i wore a summer dress and hubby had on a polo and jeans with some shell toes on). I felt so comfortable, i took off my crazy uncomfortable heels and noticed that a woman on the praise team on STAGE had done the same thing!

There were lots of folks with nappy hair, locks, perms, braids, low cuts, and fros. Lots of women AND men, young and fairly old and children too! They do televise the service, so you could sit in the overflow room if you didnt want to be filmed (we didnt care lol).

The sermon was on point and the altar call was very nice. Everyone was just generally cool! After service, of course we made our way to the visitors reception and that went nicely too. We filled out our lil info card and snacked on brownies and donuts, while one of the ministers (who had a nigerian accent) greeted us. The pastor came down and greeted us (he's cool as a fan, he used to have long locks like us, he has a bikers community group and was wearing jeans today, very cool in our eyes, lol) and welcomed us to the church. It did get a lil awkward after the initial hellos cause it was like "Uh, what do we say now?" type stuff, but thas cool, sometimes it gets that way when you meet a roomful of new people, lol.


All in all, hubby and i really liked the church and will probably go back next week. YAY for finding our possible church home!! :love

I pray everyone in the search for their church home much success.

[eilonwy]

Ironically, I think I've found a church home (www.4qf.org) for myself as well. And when we move back to Lancaster, I'll be able to go to temple (www.shaarai.org) as well... and isn't that spectacular? :D I'm feeling pretty satisfied on the spiritual front today. :shy

[purplegirl]

Ironically, I think I've found a church home (http://www.4qf.org) for myself as well. And when we move back to Lancaster, I'll be able to go to temple (http://www.shaarai.org) as well... and isn't that spectacular? :D I'm feeling pretty satisfied on the spiritual front today. :shy

Rynna!!!! :hug

[ajv]

hi everyone, i have been mia lately.

first the good news. we decided to attend a church. they dont have a pastor, just lay ministers until they find one... so if they get a pastor that is "out there" we may change churches. I like the quote from the sister :

"I guess we want that family feel. We want to be greeted and not accosted, lol. Welcomed but not grilled, introduced and not passed around for inspection, lol." (i dont know how to put the quote in...the post without cutting and paste-ing..some tech help would be greatly appreciated.)

anyway we dont experience this mainly because my hubby is a physician and the multicultural family we befriended is also a physician family so they kinda protect us from this nonsense...so we get introduced as Dr. Perry's friends, alot...in fact they canceled the monthly potluck and asked the Perry's to notify us...which was thoughtful. My friend Elizabeth said, can i just give them your number...i said yes.


now the bad news, my mom has triple negative breast cancer and started her chemo today. i refuse to say just "breast cancer" because it is such a different animal --triple negative breast cancer --it almost should have its own category. it is more agressive, non responsive to new treatments, and affects minority women more often. anyway, we had this sad, sad, shadow over our mother's day because of it... we did go to church with my grandmother though and we were thankful to arrive late and stay 3 hours! :wink :love truly thankful! it was a large urban black baptist church--what a blessing.

congrats on your new baby! anyone here looking for a weight loss buddy? (greater than 50 pounds)

[eilonwy]

congrats on your new baby! anyone here looking for a weight loss buddy? (greater than 50 pounds)

:hug I'm sorry to hear about your mom. That's got to be scary. :crap

I could stand to lose 50 pounds, but in all honesty I'd be very happy to drop 35-40. I'm very 'dense,' so while 50 pounds would still leave me 20 pounds overweight, losing 40 would get me into a size 8... and for someone with bones as big as mine are, 8 is *tiny*. :)

[shayinme]

hi everyone, i have been mia lately.

first the good news. we decided to attend a church. they dont have a pastor, just lay ministers until they find one... so if they get a pastor that is "out there" we may change churches. I like the quote from the sister :

"I guess we want that family feel. We want to be greeted and not accosted, lol. Welcomed but not grilled, introduced and not passed around for inspection, lol." (i dont know how to put the quote in...the post without cutting and paste-ing..some tech help would be greatly appreciated.)

anyway we dont experience this mainly because my hubby is a physician and the multicultural family we befriended is also a physician family so they kinda protect us from this nonsense...so we get introduced as Dr. Perry's friends, alot...in fact they canceled the monthly potluck and asked the Perry's to notify us...which was thoughtful. My friend Elizabeth said, can i just give them your number...i said yes.


now the bad news, my mom has triple negative breast cancer and started her chemo today. i refuse to say just "breast cancer" because it is such a different animal --triple negative breast cancer --it almost should have its own category. it is more agressive, non responsive to new treatments, and affects minority women more often. anyway, we had this sad, sad, shadow over our mother's day because of it... we did go to church with my grandmother though and we were thankful to arrive late and stay 3 hours! :wink :love truly thankful! it was a large urban black baptist church--what a blessing.

congrats on your new baby! anyone here looking for a weight loss buddy? (greater than 50 pounds)

I am so sorry to hear about your Mama, I am aware of triple negative breast cancer, I will pray for your Mama and for your family. :hug

Finding a church home is so hard, glad this one seems like a keeper though I know all to well that when they change pastors, thaty can change everything. Speaking of churches we went to the local UCC church for Mother's Day and I liked it.. a little lighter than I am used to as far as preaching style, but the folks were genuiunly warm and there were other POC there which where I live is a big deal. In fact a Black Dad immediately walked up to us after the service to see if we wanted to do a playgroup sometimes, since his dd was just a few mos older than mine.

Ajv, I don't need a weight loss buddy since I am at the end of my weight loss journey, I made lifetime on WW last month after 2 years on the program. I lost 41 pounds, so I just wanted to say you can do it.. :thumb

Things here are ok, ton of home improvements that need to be done and as always not enough money, so trying to prioritize as far as what needs to be done versus what I want done. LOL

Shay

[xochimama]

Can I join? :shy

I'm Latina, living in New Mexico with dh, dd1, and baby on the way... :) And missing my network of progressive WOC...

[purplegirl]

Can I join? :shy

I'm Latina, living in New Mexico with dh, dd1, and baby on the way... :) And missing my network of progressive WOC...

Hi There!:wave Of course you join us. I am glad you found us!

[shayinme]

Can I join? :shy

I'm Latina, living in New Mexico with dh, dd1, and baby on the way... :) And missing my network of progressive WOC...

Of course you can.. welcome to the group! :D

Shay

[ErikaDP]

Hello Sisterfriends!

First things first:
To All of the New Members here:
:grouphug!WELCOME TO THE TRIBE!:grouphug
I hope to see many more posts from you!:thumb

And now for my update:
Wow, it has been a really hectic few months! I have been traveling quite a bit, had a lot of over night guests stay at my home, had another one of my children graduate from college and I had my mother, daughter and my walking(now running) 11 month old grandson visit me for a week(boy, were we sad to see them go back home to Seattle). I also got to spend my first mother's day as a grandmother with my daughter(her 1st as a mom!) and with my own mother-it was really great!
I am now gearing up for conference season and for camping season.
In a few weeks, we will be taking our fifth annual African American Unschooling camping vacation and this year's trip is a return to the Grand Canyon(site of the 1st trip). We are all really looking forward to the trip, but the task of how we get all of our camping gear on the plane is keeping me up at night! It might almost be cheaper to buy duplicate items and gift them to my sister and her family(they live in Phoenix)because of all of the bag limitations and fees that the airlines are charging now.
I also will be speaking at the NE Unschooling conference this weekend and I am really looking forward to that too.
On the home front, we had a very large tree fall on our garage's roof the day after mother's day and we were so lucky that no one was hurt! If it had happened at the same time the day before, someone could have very easily been killed. We all counted our blessings! So now I am dealing with the insurance company and trying to find a contractor to do the repairs. Wish me luck!
I have so much more that I could say but my computer time is up. And I won't be posting online much in the coming few weeks but I still hope to come here to read all of your posts at least a couple of times a week.
Here hoping that everyone has a safe and happy Memorial Day weekend!

*..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Peace, Love & Light!-:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

[eilonwy]

Oh wow...I can't believe your grandson is eleven months old, Erika! Time flies!

I'm going to Wickerman (www.wickermanburning.org) Thursday. I'm very excited about it, and strangely greatful to Bear (who is unable to nurse, which enables me to do things like this, which are not child-friendly :o). Should be a good time.

We're trying to wrap up the school year; the spring has been kind of a mess, what with me being in and out of the hospital and all the depressive miseries. We're also trying to find a place to live. I'm trying not to think too much about it... because everything will befine. Right?

[xochimama]

Just to chime in on finding a church: this was tough for us, too. DH (white) grew up in the Episcopal church, but I grew up w/ Mexican Catholicism—twelve years of Catholic school, in fact. Theologically, the traditions aren't so far apart, but from a socio-cultural belief standpoint, ay, there are major differences.

I just don't identify with the social conservatism of the local Hispano Catholic parishes. But the Episcopal church that we ultimately chose is so overwhelmingly white...:( I see it as a real problem, and our congregation has been so damn slow to really make it welcoming for Latinos. :irked: It is really frustrating. On the other hand, I love that our church is so involved in social activism, very left-leaning politically, welcoming of queer families, not pushy at all about religion... they just can't seem to diversify.

Someday I hope to find the right balance in a church family. Occasionally I go to a local Catholic service, bilingual. The ones at the small rural churches here in northern NM often have a couple of lone guitars, too: grizzled old Mexicanos whose guitars are out of tune, but they are singing their hearts out to God... makes me a little :happyt: This experience more readily satisfies the cultural connection I have to worship, which I just don't always get singing the Anglican hymns.

[purplegirl]

Wow. It's so good to hear from long term posters and new members.
Ajv, let me first say how sorry I am to hear that your mama is struggling with cancer. I am an eternal optimist and believe that there is always hope. I promise to keep her and your family in my prayers.
I can sure use a weight loss partner. I have gained twenty pounds in two months:jaw. I mean wth is going on with me?? I am back to walking 3 miles four times a week and being mindful of every thing I put in my mouth!

Shay, congrats on your weight loss. It is inspirational to me:thumb

Erika, it is always good to hear from you. I can't believe your grandchild is almost a year old. I am glad no one got hurt by the fallen tree. That is so frightening. Peace to you on your journeys.

Xochimama, I think a lot of us can relate to the struggle to find a spiritual home that feels like home--socially and culturally. "Traditionally black churches" have lost appeal to me because of the religious dogma and social conservatism. That said, I feel they are an important institution because of the important role they have and continue to play in black communities/history. The closest UU church to me is very homogeneous but welcoming. I feel most comfortable in the Friends Meeting House where there is tremendous diversity, social action and acceptance.

[ajv]

hey, i am feeling better today. i found a weight loss buddy on another thread, she is from missouri. she says she is doing the 1000 minute exercise challenge that is on one of these threads too... i havent had time to get over there. my mom shaved her head and is doing okay with chemo (she has triple negative breast cancer). thanks for your prayers.

my 1st cousins were here this past weekend, so it was good to catch up...we committed to having a family reunion now that we are all adults-- it is our own responsibility to keep track of each other.

i have bid on some montessori books on ebay, i figure my son will be 3 in a few months, maybe i should start some homeschooling preschooling...who knows? i feel peer-pressured to do so much with him...that is the challenge of parenting for me, not competing with the woman sitting next to me at library story time. (laugh)

:hola:where in new mexico do you live, i lived in Albuquerque for 16 years--i miss it, especially the food. :eat:

that grand canyon trip looked wonderful (i am a lurker on aa unschooling). i cant wait until my kids are old enough to go on those trips...i love traveling.

it is hard for me to keep track of everyone's names, i am going to make myself a cheat sheet to keep near the computer. :wink

ajv

[xochimama]

:hola:where in new mexico do you live, i lived in Albuquerque for 16 years--i miss it, especially the food. :eat:
ajv

I live in Las Vegas, New Mexico (the REAL Las Vegas, as locals like to say:wink). I was just in ABQ yesterday—took dd to the Explora museum which was amazing! I had no idea that the QueQue had such a terrific children's museum. And free parking. :)

Well, you lived in NM longer than I have: I moved here in 1998--spent a year in Roswell before heading further north... And yea, the chile is great... My pregnant tummy can't get enough right now. :) :eat:

Cristina

[purplegirl]

I loved New Mexico when I visited years ago. It was super cool to, wake up to snow and by noon, it was hot. It is beautiful country for sure!

[Arike]

Hey everyone! I just found out that I am pregnant on 5/22/08 and I am due October 15th! :bigeyes

So yeah I spent half of my first pregnancy not even knowing I was pregnant. It's a boy and me and DP are pretty stoked about it among the feelings of anxiety, fear, etc...

I just wanted to say hey to all the mommies and mommies to be of color!

[eilonwy]

Welcome, Arike! :wave

I have to ask... how does that happen?! I've got four kids and even the first time, I was pretty sure early on... with the other three, I knew before the pregnancy test. :lol

[purplegirl]

Hey everyone! I just found out that I am pregnant on 5/22/08 and I am due October 15th! :bigeyes

So yeah I spent half of my first pregnancy not even knowing I was pregnant. It's a boy and me and DP are pretty stoked about it among the feelings of anxiety, fear, etc...

I just wanted to say hey to all the mommies and mommies to be of color!

Welcome Arike. I hope you will share your journey with us.
Hey Rynna. It's always good to hear from you. Hope everyone else is doing well.

[xochimama]

Welcome, Arike! :greet

In case you haven't found it yet on these boards, check out your "Due Date Club" in the "I'm Pregnant" forum... lots of info and support to be had there. :thumb

[Arike]

Thanks purplegirl and xochimama for the greetings and welcome! I will defintely check out those suggested forums! :)

[ErikaDP]

Hello Sisterfriends,

I haven't been online much in the last month or so(and won't be online much for the next month or so!)but I wanted to say howdy! :wave
I hope that everyone is doing well.
I also wanted to say to Arike:
:grouphug!WELCOME TO THE TRIBE!:grouphug
I hope to see many more posts from you!:thumb
Well, that's all that I have time for now. I hope to come back soon to write more.

*..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Peace, Love & Light!-:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

[Arike]

Welcome, Arike! :wave

I have to ask... how does that happen?! I've got four kids and even the first time, I was pretty sure early on... with the other three, I knew before the pregnancy test. :lol

Thanks everyone for the greetings and congrats! It's very shocking and I feel like my world is turning upside down and inside out but so far mostly everyone is really excited and supportive so that's been good. Just to preface this, I have polycystic ovarian syndrome and normally it is VERY difficult for women with this condition to get pregnant. My primary care physician was shocked but really happy because me being pregnant means that my body is healthy. I had absolutely NO symptoms up until maybe 2-3 weeks ago. No morning sickness or nausea. I have only gained 5-6 pounds. I am not really showing that much, just a little poochy belly. The only symptoms I have now is a varicose vein, frequent urination and the occasional heartburn(which only happens if I eat too much in one sitting, I have learned that for me, eating only when I am hungry and just enough to be satisfied but not stuffed is the best for me). I have been working out 5 times a week at the gym, lifting weights, doing intervals of running on the treadmill and spin classes. I also was rehearsing with the dance company I am in and we just had a series of 5 shows the first week of June and I pulled some LONG hours. All of this happening at 5 months. CRAZY! Anyway, I am embracing it all and just diving in head first! I am 23 weeks and me and my partner were in the middle of planning a wedding for next year when we found out. We are planning on having a small ceremony with our close friends at city hall with a nice dinner to follow. Next year we want to have a renewal of vows ceremony the way we dreamed of having our wedding. I never pictured we would have a little one running around at the ceremony! LOL!:)

[jeca]

Hey everyone! I just found out that I am pregnant on 5/22/08 and I am due October 15th! :bigeyes

So yeah I spent half of my first pregnancy not even knowing I was pregnant. It's a boy and me and DP are pretty stoked about it among the feelings of anxiety, fear, etc...

I just wanted to say hey to all the mommies and mommies to be of color!

:w Arike and a big Congrats on the baby.

[purplegirl]

:joy: Happy summer everyone!

[eilonwy]

The summer is... entirely insane. :o I'm working on it, though, and mostly having fun. Life with four kids is really difficult, especially when one is fettered (as Bear is, by bottles which of course must be kept cold or unmade... meh!). Hopefully things will get easier as life goes on. They do get easier, right? :o

[purplegirl]

It's so good to "see" you Rynna. :joy:

[ErikaDP]

Hello Sisterfriends,

I haven't been here in quite a while so I thought I would pop in and say hello!
Lately, I have been spending all of my MDC time in the Politics forums. And let me tell you, being there is not for the faint of heart(or the thin skinned).
The members who post there are informed, witty, funny and very serious about this election cycle. It is a great place to get information about what's going on in the world of US presidential politics and it is also a good place to get your political questions answered(or at least, pointed in the right direction for the answers).
And my public service announcement for the day is that I hope that everyone here is registered to vote and if you are not, go first thing next week and register.
I hope that everyone is having a great summer, we have been enjoying ours here in CT.
Well, that's all that I have time for now. I hope that everyone has a great rest of the weekend.

*..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Peace, Love & Light!-:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

[eilonwy]

I was actually kind of impressed that there were folks out registering voters in front of WalMart yesterday. :lol I mean, on college campuses you can nearly always find them, but WalMart's where they actually *need* to be, you know? :)

Anyway, I don't visit that forum because... well, I have a sensitive tummy sometimes. :o :lol I'd rather become informed without the spin, and I'd rather not get worked up and angry because it's bad for my karma. :innocent

[chanibell]

Hey sistahfriends,
Just popping into say hi. I haven't been active here in a long while. Just curious to find out if anyone has been watching the Blacks in America series they are doing on CNN and what your thoughts or opinions are on many of the topics raised. One that intrigued me was more AA women are opting to stay single and wait for the perfect AA man than go outside the race.
blessings ladies~

[jeca]

Anyway, I don't visit that forum because... well, I have a sensitive tummy sometimes. :o :lol I'd rather become informed without the spin, and I'd rather not get worked up and angry because it's bad for my karma. :innocent

That is why I have left MDC off and on over the years. Sometimes I just can't stomach the place sometimes. Nothing new to report here DH is trying to finish his degree and it's stressing me out. If he's the one in school why am I always proof reading, typing and researching? :scratch My grammatical skills are greatly lacking but he asks anyway.

[barose]

Hey sistahfriends,
Just popping into say hi. I haven't been active here in a long while. Just curious to find out if anyone has been watching the Blacks in America series they are doing on CNN and what your thoughts or opinions are on many of the topics raised. One that intrigued me was more AA women are opting to stay single and wait for the perfect AA man than go outside the race.
blessings ladies~



I missed the first half hour, :( but DP called me in when they were interviewing an older woman who is struggling to eat right living in a community where there is little to no access to healthy food.

I think each topic discussed can be broken down into separate two hour miniseries! Two hours was not enough time.

The one the struck me the most was the discussion about the HIV rate among AA women and that one in 20 AA in DC are HIV + :( I really had no idea that the HIV rate is so high in our community. I feel so clueless that I didn’t know.

[purplegirl]

Hey sistahfriends,
Just popping into say hi. I haven't been active here in a long while. Just curious to find out if anyone has been watching the Blacks in America series they are doing on CNN and what your thoughts or opinions are on many of the topics raised. One that intrigued me was more AA women are opting to stay single and wait for the perfect AA man than go outside the race.
blessings ladies~


Hey girl!:joy:It is always good to see you.

I tivo'ed the show and can't wait to watch it. Just as a quick note, sisters need to be open minded when choosing a partner. I have so many beautiful, professional, intelligent single friends who are waiting on the perfect black man to come along.
*Heck* my sister is bugging me to get to the mall. More later.........

[barose]

Hey girl!:joy:It is always good to see you.

I tivo'ed the show and can't wait to watch it. Just as a quick note, sisters need to be open minded when choosing a partner. I have so many beautiful, professional, intelligent single friends who are waiting on the perfect black man to come along.
*Heck* my sister is bugging me to get to the mall. More later.........

ITA. I would still be single if I didnt branch out.

Though it saddens me that we are losing our brothers. :(

[eilonwy]

:o I dont have cable. So... how long before you think the salient points will be on YouTube? :duck:

[barose]

:o I dont have cable. So... how long before you think the salient points will be on YouTube? :duck:

Good question! I have to miss most of tonight’s episode. I hope they at least to a rebroadcast.

[purplegirl]

ITA. I would still be single if I didnt branch out.

Though it saddens me that we are losing our brothers. :(

It is very sad from a lot of perspectives.:(

[eilonwy]

I must say, I'm kind of conflicted about the whole thing. Anyone care to discuss? I'm sure that I'll rub people the wrong way, but that's not my intent... two parts of it would have to do with something that we discussed aaaages ago on this thread (the fact that most of this group consists of a very elite group of women, and the antagonism toward light-skinned black people), and those in and of themselves can be very sensitive subjects.

(I'm kind of paranoid about sensitive subjects these days, as I have been accused of harassment simply for asking questions ...I feel the need to walk on eggshells. :guilty)

[barose]

I must say, I'm kind of conflicted about the whole thing. Anyone care to discuss? I'm sure that I'll rub people the wrong way, but that's not my intent... two parts of it would have to do with something that we discussed aaaages ago on this thread (the fact that most of this group consists of a very elite group of women, and the antagonism toward light-skinned black people), and those in and of themselves can be very sensitive subjects.

(I'm kind of paranoid about sensitive subjects these days, as I have been accused of harassment simply for asking questions ...I feel the need to walk on eggshells. :guilty)

Can you explain what this means? I honestly dont know. :o

[eilonwy]

The majority of the women here are elite --they're part of a minority within a minority. Their experiences don't reflect a lot of the most common aspects of "black life." :duck:

[barose]

OK. I think I understand what you mean now. :)

I admit I shied away from this thread for a while because I feared I wouldn't fit in. For some reason, I returned yesterday. Ill try to read several pages to get to know some of you better.

[purplegirl]

Posting on the go....
Colorism is still very much an issue in the black race and it goes both ways. I was so hoping that by the time I had children (yet to happen) or when my nieces and nephews got older, it would be passe. It is not and it is so frustrating.

[jeca]

The majority of the women here are elite --they're part of a minority within a minority. Their experiences don't reflect a lot of the most common aspects of "black life." :duck:

I need things spelled out for me sometimes so I would prefer you just say what you mean. No grudges, promise. :D Are you reffering to the fact that some mamas on here are not married to black men? I did not see the show I don't watch much television.

[eilonwy]

Oh, not that at all. :lol No, it's more like... the demographic here is decidedly upper middle class. At least. I remember a few years ago we discussed home ownership in the black community, for example, and I was the only person who was renting. :o Someone (Erika?) had brought it up because they'd encountered a news article which asserted that home ownership was a relatively recent thing for most black homeowners, and that it was still not terribly common. Most of the women posting here have college educations, something else which doesn't reflect the majority of black women in this country. Being married *at all* doesn't reflect the experience of a significant proportion of black mothers. In any case, all those things might come into play if we were to take a serious look at the issue of black women (and men) marrying non-black folks. :o

[eilonwy]

Posting on the go....
Colorism is still very much an issue in the black race and it goes both ways. I was so hoping that by the time I had children (yet to happen) or when my nieces and nephews got older, it would be passe. It is not and it is so frustrating.

:nod :gloomy:

[barose]

eilonwy - Thanks for spelling it out for me! :lol

I consider myself middle class or some people would even consider me upper. But, we rent. Our rent is $2400/mo because of our location though.

We are not married but we don’t have kids. I don’t think we will rush off and make it "legal" if I get pregnant. Maybe we will, maybe we wont, but I'm not attached to the idea.

I think some statistics that state that many black mothers (or mothers in general) are single doesn’t take into account many do have partners/fathers in the home with them. They just haven’t said “I do”.

[eilonwy]

Cohabitation certainly happens... but I don't think that counting cohabiting and/or commited couples as married would change the statistic all that much. I watched the first episode of Everybody Hates Chris when it was on a few years ago. One of the things I remember most vividly was the scene where Chris' father says goodnight. "I'll see you in the morning," he says, and then there's the narration: My father was one of four fathers on the block. He was never one for huge shows of affection, but when he said, "I'll see you in the morning," he was saying "I love you."

In other words... it's by no means a "new" issue, you know? When you take into account that choosing not to be legally married while maintaining a committed relationship tends to be seen as a "white" thing, much like homeschooling, then you can see that the issue is, perhaps, one of concern. I"m not sure, though... It's complicated. I have a lot of thoughts on it.

As to not fitting in here... :o I worried about it too, but this is definately one of the coolest threads around. :thumb

[barose]

In other words... it's by no means a "new" issue, you know? When you take into account that choosing not to be legally married while maintaining a committed relationship tends to be seen as a "white" thing, much like homeschooling, then you can see that the issue is, perhaps, one of concern. I"m not sure, though... It's complicated. I have a lot of thoughts on it.




Good point.

When older black folks find out that we are "living together" - they cringe. Even my family is pretty silent on the matter; they just don’t want to talk about it. His parents (who are in their '80s) are happy for us! They don’t care that we are not married. They just want grandchildren before they pass. :lol

My older brother is the same way. He's been an in relationship for years with the same woman, but they are not married – no kids. But he is not really apart of the black community himself. Avid biker, following the Tour de France as we speak, rock bands, etc. I feel like somewhere along the line, we broke away from our immediate peers.

[AndrewsMother]

I do not post much, but this conversation is quite interesting.

I do not really like the term elite, but I know exactly what you mean. At the current time I am wokring in an environment that makes me question that state of the black community. My job is located in a surburban area that ir primarily African American. The families are low to middle income and I would say not very educated. That is the case for some, but not all. The children appear to be severly affeected by many circumstances, but it is hard to point the blame in any one direction.

I am not very sociable so I have yet to meet other A/A who are similar to myself and it is quite maddening. We have been in Houston for almost a year and what I see of the A/A community is not comforting. While do know many successful A/A in Houston, this city is so different from Atlanta where there are many areas where successful A/A live.

I truly feel as if I will have to completely assimilate into another culture to provide the right type of environment for my son.

I hope that I made sense to someone other than myself.

[jeca]

Oh, not that at all. :lol No, it's more like... the demographic here is decidedly upper middle class. At least. I remember a few years ago we discussed home ownership in the black community, for example, and I was the only person who was renting. :o Someone (Erika?) had brought it up because they'd encountered a news article which asserted that home ownership was a relatively recent thing for most black homeowners, and that it was still not terribly common. Most of the women posting here have college educations, something else which doesn't reflect the majority of black women in this country. Being married *at all* doesn't reflect the experience of a significant proportion of black mothers. In any case, all those things might come into play if we were to take a serious look at the issue of black women (and men) marrying non-black folks. :o

Ohhh ok, well now I feel silly.:o I'm not sure I remember that discussion it might have occurred during one of my periods of abandonment of MDC. We are probably middle class on the lower end depending on what describes middle class nowadays. Dh makes about $60,000 a year and yes we are married but we do not own a home yet either. Dh is finishing up his degree which will give us an increase in income sometimes next year. I never finished my degree but I did attend college at Tuskegee University before we were married. I think it also depends on your own family dynamics sometime people follow what they know or get stuck in a never ending cycle. My AA friends(not that I have many) are all married and also middle class families as were their own families. My would have been SIL came from a bad family back ground alcoholic mother not around father and now she has 5 kids of her own a husband in and out of jail and is typically low income as was her mother before her.

[eilonwy]

When older black folks find out that we are "living together" - they cringe. Even my family is pretty silent on the matter; they just don’t want to talk about it. His parents (who are in their '80s) are happy for us! They don’t care that we are not married. They just want grandchildren before they pass. :lol

:lol And my situation is somewhat different, because my mother is a white Jew. One of the first things to go when governments were persecuting Jews was the legality of their marriages, so it was not uncommon to have a couple that was married by a rabbi but did not have a legal marriage; THe children, then, would be legally required to have the mother's name (which is how you get names like "Malkovich," which means "of Malka;" Malka is a female name). As far as my mother was concerned, Mike and I were married when we moved in together, regardless of the law. :shrug I mean... I suppose that there are similarities, but the attitude is very different.

[quote]
My older brother is the same way. He's been an in relationship for years with the same woman, but they are not married – no kids. But he is not really apart of the black community himself. Avid biker, following the Tour de France as we speak, rock bands, etc. I feel like somewhere along the line, we broke away from our immediate peers.

See... it would seem clear that he's not part of the majority of black folks in this country, and that his experience doesn't reflect the average... but the question is, does that invalidate his experience as a black man? (This is where my eyes start to spin around in my head... :o)

I do not really like the term elite, but I know exactly what you mean.

I just can't think of a better word for it... :blush

I truly feel as if I will have to completely assimilate into another culture to provide the right type of environment for my son.

THat has to be heartbreaking. I feel as though I'll have to create a culture in order to provide one for my children.

I hope that I made sense to someone other than myself.

:nod

[jeca]

I truly feel as if I will have to completely assimilate into another culture to provide the right type of environment for my son.

I hope that I made sense to someone other than myself.

Are you saying that because the black dynamics of the town are not in line with your own? Or do you simply feel a greater pull towards one than the other? I mean I understand because you want the right kind of environment for your own child to thrive in and I think it's hard when we can't find that in our own community. I am not very social myself and my closest friends do not live in the same state as me so while we share the same views and dynamics our children are not able to grow from each other.

[barose]

:lol And my situation is somewhat different, because my mother is a white Jew. One of the first things to go when governments were persecuting Jews was the legality of their marriages, so it was not uncommon to have a couple that was married by a rabbi but did not have a legal marriage; THe children, then, would be legally required to have the mother's name (which is how you get names like "Malkovich," which means "of Malka;" Malka is a female name). As far as my mother was concerned, Mike and I were married when we moved in together, regardless of the law. :shrug I mean... I suppose that there are similarities, but the attitude is very different.



Well, NOW I have an explaination for it! DP and his parents are also white Jews. They dont care if they never see a wedding again. :lol

In terms of my brother and his experiences, they vary over the years. His personal interests and hobbies changed and so did his friends. Growing up in the black community and attending black schools, he was always the "cool guy". Never had issues with anyone never got in trouble - just "cool" naturally. There was some jealously from some of his peers: he was/is handsome, 6'1" by the age of 13 (didnt grow after that :lol) and dressed really well – but other than that, we was always well liked.

He just kind of broke away from the community as his friends didnt share the same interests, lifestyle, and many of them going to jail or having kids at a young age.


Regardless of how many boomerangs he makes and competitions he's won, how much he bikes, and how many white friends he has (because of similar interests), etc he's is still a black man and will always be treated like one - at least in this country.

[AndrewsMother]

Are you saying that because the black dynamics of the town are not in line with your own? Or do you simply feel a greater pull towards one than the other? I mean I understand because you want the right kind of environment for your own child to thrive in and I think it's hard when we can't find that in our own community. I am not very social myself and my closest friends do not live in the same state as me so while we share the same views and dynamics our children are not able to grow from each other.


I am saying that I have not found an enclave of young progressive blacks in the Houston area. I lived in Houston as a child and the only time that I saw other blacks was at church on Sunday. I thought that things would be different for my son. I am anti public schools, and during my tours of local private schools I have noticed that there is a lack of blacks students. When I asked the administration I was told that very few if any black parents applied. I took a series of courses at one school where my son is a prospective student and not once during the 5 months that I frequented the school did I see any other black prospective parents.

Yes I am looking at the best schools in the city, but that should not mean that there are few black students in attendance. The majority black areas of inner city Houston are not for us to live in and that saddens me. I want to live near other blacks, but only in a safe and asthetically pleasing section of town. The majority black suburban areas are not appealing either.

I lived my life straddling the fence I thought that things had changed, but I guess not.

I want to surround myself with other blacks who are educated (and having a college degree does not make one educated, have morals and values similar to mine and enjoy similar activities. I get the blank stare and the you must be crazy look from the few blacks that I have come across. I have even been told that I need to lower my standards. According to some I must have had a privleged upbringing, but I can assure I did not. My single parent school teacher mother struggled, but we lived a decent life.

I must leave work I will post more later.

[jeca]

I get the blank stare and the you must be crazy look from the few blacks that I have come across. I have even been told that I need to lower my standards. According to some I must have had a privleged upbringing, but I can assure I did not. My single parent school teacher mother struggled, but we lived a decent life.


:hug Lowering your standards would be like settling and I don't think(and I know you don't think that either) we as parents period should do that when it comes to our children. as it stands right now I have no black friends wher we live, not a one. I hadtow but they moved and I just haven't found any like minded mamas since. DH says it's because I'm anti-social my sister says it's because I give off a "white" vibe whatever that means.:eyesroll I know what it means I've heard it all my life but it still seems silly to me.

[barose]

Speaking of black friends, I have one. I met her by chance at an organic cafe over a years ago. We were drawn to each other and have similar interests (spiritual beliefs that are NOT Christian, volunteer, etc) and though we don’t see each other much, we write to each other everyday on Facebook.

Before that, I had none - not since high school.

[ErikaDP]

Wow Sisterfriends,

A person goes away for a few days and the thread comes to life with some serious issues!
Unfortunately, it is 2am here and I must sleep(just came in from a lovely evening stroll)so I will have to come back here in the later AM with my reply. Sleep well everyone!

*..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Peace, Love & Light!-:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

[barose]

Wow Sisterfriends,

A person goes away for a few days and the thread comes to life with some serious issues!
Unfortunately, it is 2am here and I must sleep(just came in from a lovely evening stroll)so I will have to come back here in the later AM with my reply. Sleep well everyone!

*..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Peace, Love & Light!-:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

I'm looking forward to it! :energy:

[ErikaDP]

Hello Again,

First things first: Welcome back to all of the long-time posters that I haven't seen around these parts in a long while! And a big Welcome to all of the new members here!
Now, to comment on one of the topics at hand:
Rynna, I think that you confused my posts with someone elses. I am not the one who said that home ownership is a recent trend. As a matter of fact, I have many generations of home/land ownership in my family history and one of the points that I have made here at MDC repeatedly is that one of the most tragic occurrences brought about by Hurricane Katrina was that many of the folks in New Orleans that lost their homes were in houses that had been in their families for many, many years.
I think that many Black families prior to the 1970's owned at least some land(even if it was a many years abandoned farm in the south), but because of the great Black urban migration to the north in the forties, the images that we associate with Blacks now are almost exclusively urban.
Sure, I grew up in a urban setting, but my mother, grandmother and her mother all lived in homes that they owned(most had a mortgage at one time). And many of my friends growing up had the same history(as a matter of fact, usually when I go to visit friends, we always end up at someone's "big momma's house"). So I tend to think of the Black renter as a stereotype that may be true for some, but certainly not for all(or even most) Blacks.

I would love to post about the skin color debate and about Black couples/Black women but I am out of computer time and I will have to come back later to talk about those topics.
But I will say as a Black woman many years married to a Black man(whose parents have been married for 50 years), I always find conversations about intra/interracial relationships(especially marriage and/or parenting) fascinating. I will return here soon.

Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

[shayinme]

The majority of the women here are elite --they're part of a minority within a minority. Their experiences don't reflect a lot of the most common aspects of "black life." :duck:

Oh, not that at all. :lol No, it's more like... the demographic here is decidedly upper middle class. At least. I remember a few years ago we discussed home ownership in the black community, for example, and I was the only person who was renting. :o Someone (Erika?) had brought it up because they'd encountered a news article which asserted that home ownership was a relatively recent thing for most black homeowners, and that it was still not terribly common. Most of the women posting here have college educations, something else which doesn't reflect the majority of black women in this country. Being married *at all* doesn't reflect the experience of a significant proportion of black mothers. In any case, all those things might come into play if we were to take a serious look at the issue of black women (and men) marrying non-black folks. :o

I don't have a lot of time but I did want to respond to these 2 comments, I guess they hit me on a visceral level. I may now be middle-class by virtue of education/income but I did not start life that way at all.

I was born in the county hospital aka the free hospital, my folks never owned a house, for the most part my folks were not middle class, they were times we were eating gubment cheese and butter. That said, like many Black families they always told us kids to stay in school, blah blah. While I did drop out of HS I did later go to college.

I say all this to say that for many Black folks that may seem "elite" many of us are one generation removed from poverty and know it well. One whole side of my family was raised on the most notorious housing projects in the US and still live in section 8 today.

For those like me, I see us a straddlers, one foot in the old world and 1 foot in this new middle class existence and at times its makes for a pretty schizophrenic existence.

I can't say that home ownership is new to Blacks, there have always been folks in my family with a piece of land, I think its been through urban migration that Blacks lost property.

More later...

Shay

[AndrewsMother]

Speaking of black friends, I have one. I met her by chance at an organic cafe over a years ago. We were drawn to each other and have similar interests (spiritual beliefs that are NOT Christian, volunteer, etc) and though we don’t see each other much, we write to each other everyday on Facebook.

Before that, I had none - not since high school.

I too have not had a friend since high school and neither she nor I had anything in common. We still communicate with one another today, but she and I are not close. Evenin high school I never told her my true feelings. Even today she will tell me that I am the smartest person that I know and that past mistakes do not matter, but we can't just sit down and reveal our inner self because she would not understand. My family did not approve of our relationship then and I know that they would not now. My family has a high standard of conduct that I sometimes feel as if I can't live up to.

As I type I can maybe realize why a black man with similar upbrining might have a hard time finding a black wife if I can't even find the right black friend. Interracial marriage is quite common in my family and I have never gievn it a thought until right now.

My husband is my best friend and to be honest he and I have very little in common. We are cohorts, but our childhoods were not similar in anyway. When I was younger my mother and other family members always cautioned us against being common. His family is exactly that. Fortunately he is open to change (more so than I) and ready to embrace a different lifestlye. There are times when I shake head in wonder. If he were not so loving and wonderful I would truly wonder if my family would look down on him because of his upbringing.



:hug Lowering your standards would be like settling and I don't think(and I know you don't think that either) we as parents period should do that when it comes to our children. as it stands right now I have no black friends wher we live, not a one. I hadtow but they moved and I just haven't found any like minded mamas since. DH says it's because I'm anti-social my sister says it's because I give off a "white" vibe whatever that means.:eyesroll I know what it means I've heard it all my life but it still seems silly to me.

I have heard both of the above comments all of my life. I am not antisocial, but I do exude an air of determination and self assurance that I have been told comes off as arrogance. I am very confident in my abilities and always have been. A friend in Atlanta tells me that I was one of those smart children who ran off friends because I knew too much. Perhaps she is correct. I do rememeber dumbing myself down once I entered public school in an attempt to garner friends. That I soon realized was nonsense, but not before my G.P.A declined and I realized that I was destined to be lonely for the rest of my high school career.


Please forgive all typographical errors. I have begun to post twice before and both times my 2 year old erased the screen. I am not being a parent today. He is sitting in my bed watching Annie for the 2nd time. I am tired, frustrated and stuck at home with no car in the hottest city in the world. Well atleast that is how it feels to me.

I truly hope to connect with someone here because an online friend or support network can be just as beneficial as a local relationship.

[eilonwy]

I don't have a lot of time but I did want to respond to these 2 comments, I guess they hit me on a visceral level. I may now be middle-class by virtue of education/income but I did not start life that way at all. {snip}

I say all this to say that for many Black folks that may seem "elite" many of us are one generation removed from poverty and know it well.

:nod Very true, and very relevant. Thank you for making me feel less alone. :hug :innocent Personally, I think the awareness is very important, because it encourages us to cultivate identities which have nothing to do with economic status or even formal education. It does radically alter our perceptions, though-- not only where we are, but where we're coming from.

My family has a high standard of conduct that I sometimes feel as if I can't live up to.

As I type I can maybe realize why a black man with similar upbrining might have a hard time finding a black wife if I can't even find the right black friend. Interracial marriage is quite common in my family and I have never gievn it a thought until right now.

My husband is my best friend and to be honest he and I have very little in common. We are cohorts, but our childhoods were not similar in anyway. When I was younger my mother and other family members always cautioned us against being common. His family is exactly that. Fortunately he is open to change (more so than I) and ready to embrace a different lifestlye. There are times when I shake head in wonder. If he were not so loving and wonderful I would truly wonder if my family would look down on him because of his upbringing.

Well, I am the product of an interracial relationship. :o The little family history I have on my father's side indicates that it happened, but not constantly. My father himself... well, let's put it this way. When my grandmother was sober, my grandfather was the man she'd been married to when my father was born (tall, thin, very dark skinned black man). When she was drunk, he was a white fellow from a neighboring town. :eyesroll My father has two older siblings who are both over six feet tall (his sister is 6'2") and fairly dark skinned. My father himself was 5'6", tops, had hazel-green eyes and light brown hair. His skin was probably three shades darker than mine. :eyesroll Yeah, pretty much. :lol

My husband is white. My brother's first wife was half mexican and half white (very very pale skin, very dark hair); His second wife is black. My sister has three children by two different men, both of whom were black. They're all "interracial relationships," though, unless we start dating each other (SO not happening :gross). :lol

[purplegirl]

Just popping in before I take off for vacation. My family is traveling to Martha's Vineyard for the week--talk about the mecca of black upper middle class. I am enjoying this conversation but time doesn't allow me to write more. I will upon my return next Saturday!
Let's keep it going mamas!

[barose]

Just popping in before I take off for vacation. My family is traveling to Martha's Vineyard for the week--talk about the mecca of black upper middle class. I am enjoying this conversation but time doesn't allow me to write more. I will upon my return next Saturday!
Let's keep it going mamas!

Interesting - because I have never been in the company of upper middle class AA before. Maybe at the SF Symphony, or opera but it was usually an older person or couple.

Strange, now that I think about it. It might because of my location: all of the places that we vacationed here in California: La Jolla, Sea Ranch, Big Sur, Santa Barbabra, it was pretty hard to find another black person there. When we went to Sea Ranch a few weeks ago, I was tickled pink to see TWO black couples on two different occasions. :lol

[ishereal]

I'm here ladies!!!!!!!!!

[ErikaDP]

I'm back! And I will use the following quote to re-start the conversation:Just popping in before I take off for vacation. My family is traveling to Martha's Vineyard for the week--talk about the mecca of black upper middle class. I am enjoying this conversation but time doesn't allow me to write more. I will upon my return next Saturday!
Let's keep it going mamas!Interesting - because I have never been in the company of upper middle class AA before. Maybe at the SF Symphony, or opera but it was usually an older person or couple.

Strange, now that I think about it. It might because of my location: all of the places that we vacationed here in California: La Jolla, Sea Ranch, Big Sur, Santa Barbabra, it was pretty hard to find another black person there. When we went to Sea Ranch a few weeks ago, I was tickled pink to see TWO black couples on two different occasions. :lolI read the above exchange and I thought to myself that I am on both sides of the conversation. We have been seen as elite by others in many situations and we have looked for more POC at cultural events/vacations/activities that we have participated in.
The funny thing about stepping out of one's "cultural" comfort zone is that someone will be the first/few to do so and at times, being the one who is doing it come with the price of feeling isolated.
But because of where I grew up, I don't feel as isolated as I might feel if I grew up in a more homogeneous area.
You see, my husband and I both grew up in Seattle in what would be called middle class neighborhoods(they are both now considered upper middle class neighborhoods)that had plenty of upwardly mobile people of color(both of the neighborhoods that we grew up in were/are very diverse). They both had/have solid tax bases, good schools and many local public/private services(banks, supermarkets, libraries, retail shops, etc). And after living on the East coast for 8+ years and seeing the great differences between the way that we grew up in Seattle and the way many areas in the east are so segregated by race/ethnicity and class, I now have come to recognize that we did grow up in a "elite" environment(although at the time, it didn't feel like it) and because of that upbringing we view the world in a very different way than many of the Blacks that we have met that have grown up here. And that difference sometimes makes it hard to connect with folks.
Because I grew up in a very diverse neighborhood, I participate in activities that aren't typically associated with urban Blacks(camping, snow skiing, hiking etc)and I have a very diverse palate(even though I am a very picky eater) so you will find me eating foods that come from many different cultural traditions.
I also have a comfort level around different people that makes many of my new friends here uncomfortable. They much prefer to keep certain folks at arms length, only getting to know them on a superficial level(many of my friends here had never been in each other houses)and for me, that would be unheard of.
I am pretty much a "what you see is what you get" kind of person with every one I meet and I don't have a "Black Erika" and a "Bland Erika" that I switch between and that is something else that makes some here think twice about me too.
And then I have to add that some of my Black friends here are first or second generation Americans so their perspective is even more complex.

Wow, just reading this post is making my head swim! I don't even think that it makes a lot of sense! I might have to come back and make some edits later, but for now I will leave it be.

Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

[ajv]

i havent posted in a while, plus i need to do some housework. i have only just skimmed the latests posts. i find it so so interesting that everyone is so apologetic about being elite. everyone has their "my life was hard before now" or "everyone in my family didnt have it this good" story.

well, i admit it. i am elite. forget my past, or my family's past. right now,TODAY i am elite. that is why i subscribe to this thread, b/c i am in need the company of some women who are also elite but not necessarily white. i thank God for what i have been blessed with, and i will tell you nothing to downplay my blessings. (not today anyway). i love my poor brothers and sisters (literally and figuratively), i try to identify with them, but i kno our lives are completely different.

we elite people need others of all social economic levels in our circles. my hubby is a physican and he was working with a nurse at a rural clinic (part of a large medical group.) she was a young woman from our church who went on to nursing school after high school. she said to him, "i used to dream about working with you when i was younger"...he was shocked, he didnt even kno she was interested in medicine or observing him. she has since gone on to become a nurse midwife. but my point is that we need a variety not just ethnic variety, but also economic variety so that we can all succeed.

it reminds me of that criticism of Obama earlier in the campaign--he was an elitist--well, of course, you dont go to Harvard law school to be a populist. Plus, i think he has been the poorest person running for president in quite a while...but i digress. i also tivo'd the cnn series and cant wait to see it.

aj in colorado

[barose]

ajv - I think for some people in some situations, they dont want to give the impression that something was "handed" to them, that they didnt come from "old money", had to pay for college and so on. Not that having anything handed to them is a bad thing either.

You're right, today is today and we should embrace what we have.

[barose]

So much to talk about here!

So yesterday, we threw my grandmother a surprise birthday party. We got together with relatives who I haven’t seen in years or at all. We are a small family (40 at the MOST) but we are not very close. It was a nice small family reunion/b-day party.

Since most of my friends are not black, I don’t experience this very often, but yesterday I was bombarded with “good hair” comments. I guess I’m the only one besides my grandmother who has 3b/3c (don’t really know which – doesn’t matter). I mean it was a HUGE deal. :lol Its 2008 and I was stunned that this is still an issue. Most of my family is college educated, half are entrepreneurs – there is a pretty wide range of lifestyles, but the “good hair” thing lives on even with the guys.

I don’t even know how to respond. I guess I was in shock. I said “thank you” because my hair IS good, but not any better than my mother who has 4b hair. Its good in the way that ALL black hair or all hair for that matter is good as long as its healthy.

Does anyone deal with this? Does it bother you? How do you respond?

[sunshinestarr]

Oh, oh, I didn't know about this tribe!! I'd love to join! :D

[AndrewsMother]

Interesting - because I have never been in the company of upper middle class AA before. Maybe at the SF Symphony, or opera but it was usually an older person or couple.

Strange, now that I think about it. It might because of my location: all of the places that we vacationed here in California: La Jolla, Sea Ranch, Big Sur, Santa Barbabra, it was pretty hard to find another black person there. When we went to Sea Ranch a few weeks ago, I was tickled pink to see TWO black couples on two different occasions. :lol

My church life and my family life was made up of middle and upper middle class blacks and I miss the community. I delight in seeing successful Black Americans, it makes me proud of my race, proud to be me and it encourages me to push myself and my family harder.



I'm back! And I will use the following quote to re-start the conversation:I read the above exchange and I thought to myself that I am on both sides of the conversation. We have been seen as elite by others in many situations and we have looked for more POC at cultural events/vacations/activities that we have participated in.
The funny thing about stepping out of one's "cultural" comfort zone is that someone will be the first/few to do so and at times, being the one who is doing it come with the price of feeling isolated.
But because of where I grew up, I don't feel as isolated as I might feel if I grew up in a more homogeneous area.
You see, my husband and I both grew up in Seattle in what would be called middle class neighborhoods(they are both now considered upper middle class neighborhoods)that had plenty of upwardly mobile people of color(both of the neighborhoods that we grew up in were/are very diverse). They both had/have solid tax bases, good schools and many local public/private services(banks, supermarkets, libraries, retail shops, etc). And after living on the East coast for 8+ years and seeing the great differences between the way that we grew up in Seattle and the way many areas in the east are so segregated by race/ethnicity and class, I now have come to recognize that we did grow up in a "elite" environment(although at the time, it didn't feel like it) and because of that upbringing we view the world in a very different way than many of the Blacks that we have met that have grown up here. And that difference sometimes makes it hard to connect with folks.
Because I grew up in a very diverse neighborhood, I participate in activities that aren't typically associated with urban Blacks(camping, snow skiing, hiking etc)and I have a very diverse palate(even though I am a very picky eater) so you will find me eating foods that come from many different cultural traditions.


Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

The neighborhood that you grew up in sounds wonderful. The neighborhood in which we currently reside is racially diverse except for the fact that there are very very very few blacks.

I have a friend who laughs at me because I seek out black doctors, black dentists, black optometrists, etc, etc, especially those that have nice practices. Maybe I am asking too much, but how hard would it be to have an enclave of professional blacks at my service.

i havent posted in a while, plus i need to do some housework. i have only just skimmed the latests posts. i find it so so interesting that everyone is so apologetic about being elite. everyone has their "my life was hard before now" or "everyone in my family didnt have it this good" story.



I think that I don't like the term because the past few years of my life have not felt elite at all. Yes I will attend medical school within a few years and my family is comprised of individuals with college degrees. Most have advanced degrees. My greatgrandparents graduated from college and were not enslaved on one side of my family so I guess that they were considered elite. I feel so far removed from my family, that I just can't even feel elite. I have an Uncle is is always saying that "we did not come from junk, so don't forget that". Right now I really need to grasp a hold of his words and hold them dear.

You are right there is nothing wrong with being elite, I just got knocked off of my pedestal by life and I am working to get back there.

Sorry for rambling, but I have not had anyone to really talk to in a long time.

[AndrewsMother]

[I don’t even know how to respond. I guess I was in shock. I said “thank you” because my hair IS good, but not any better than my mother who has 4b hair. Its good in the way that ALL black hair or all hair for that matter is good as long as its healthy.

Does anyone deal with this? Does it bother you? How do you respond?

Wow!!! I had a child say that to me the other day and I was astounded. I have had those words directed towards me most of my life and it is quite embarrassing. I forget at times that people still use the term good hair and bad hair with regard to texture. I generally only hear the phrase when I visit family is Mississippi.

My hair is wavy/curly and somewhat thick, but very unmanageable. There is nothing good about my hair. My hair could not even be described as pretty because it does not behave and it draws up when exposed to humidity.

Now my cousin, she has good hair. It is thick and coarse and very healthy. When done in any style her hair looks magnificent.

[barose]

Wow!!! I had a child say that to me the other day and I was astounded. I have had those words directed towards me most of my life and it is quite embarrassing. I forget at times that people still use the term good hair and bad hair with regard to texture. I generally only hear the phrase when I visit family is Mississippi.

My hair is wavy/curly and somewhat thick, but very unmanageable. There is nothing good about my hair. My hair could not even be described as pretty because it does not behave and it draws up when exposed to humidity.

Now my cousin, she has good hair. It is thick and coarse and very healthy. When done in any style her hair looks magnificent.

The crazy thing is, except for my grandparents, 90% of my family on my mothers side is born and raised in California. The rest was raised in Germany and Alaska (NONE from down south).

[ErikaDP]

i havent posted in a while, plus i need to do some housework. i have only just skimmed the latests posts. i find it so so interesting that everyone is so apologetic about being elite. everyone has their "my life was hard before now" or "everyone in my family didnt have it this good" story.

well, i admit it. i am elite. forget my past, or my family's past. right now,TODAY i am elite. that is why i subscribe to this thread, b/c i am in need the company of some women who are also elite but not necessarily white. i thank God for what i have been blessed with, and i will tell you nothing to downplay my blessings. (not today anyway). i love my poor brothers and sisters (literally and figuratively), i try to identify with them, but i kno our lives are completely different.

we elite people need others of all social economic levels in our circles. my hubby is a physican and he was working with a nurse at a rural clinic (part of a large medical group.) she was a young woman from our church who went on to nursing school after high school. she said to him, "i used to dream about working with you when i was younger"...he was shocked, he didnt even kno she was interested in medicine or observing him. she has since gone on to become a nurse midwife. but my point is that we need a variety not just ethnic variety, but also economic variety so that we can all succeed.

it reminds me of that criticism of Obama earlier in the campaign--he was an elitist--well, of course, you dont go to Harvard law school to be a populist. Plus, i think he has been the poorest person running for president in quite a while...but i digress. i also tivo'd the cnn series and cant wait to see it.

aj in coloradoHi Aj,

My only problem with the "elite"term is that it creates yet another barrier between folks. Just like the earlier terms "uppity" and "talented tenth" did. And I am all about bring down barriers!
But yes, my family is what many here would term elite-I am a SAHM unschooling my last child(a 15yr old DS), we live in a upper middle class suburban town in CT and my husband is employed in a white collar position that sustains our family.
We have 3 adult children who all pretty successful and we are at a point in our lives were we are thinking about our next big adventure-life after kids!
Even having said that, we still have economic worries, especially when it come to thinking about our children's futures. But I still know how truly blessed we all are.

So I'll finish this post by saying thank you for your perspective Aj! You had me think about how we should be "loud and proud" of our place in this life. Especially if it helps someone else see that there are many choices/chances to live any kind of life that you choose.

Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

[shayinme]

Hi Aj,

My only problem with the "elite"term is that it creates yet another barrier between folks. Just like the earlier terms "uppity" and "talented tenth" did. And I am all about bring down barriers!

Take Care,
Erika:afro(I don't wear a fro, I'm just a sister who likes this smilie!):hs:

I agree with this, I do feel terms like elite really do create barriers when especially as POC we don't need anymore barriers.

ajv - I think for some people in some situations, they dont want to give the impression that something was "handed" to them, that they didnt come from "old money", had to pay for college and so on. Not that having anything handed to them is a bad thing either.

You're right, today is today and we should embrace what we have.

Exactly. :thumb For me personally while I can't say nothing was giving to me, I had a lot of folks along the way who helped me but I also worked hard. I didn't come from old money, yes there are segments of my family with money but none really ever reached me. So personally I do like to make that distinction because 16-17 years ago I was on state benefits and its taken a lot to move from being a teenage mom/hs dropout to who I am now.

All in all though I do try to live in the moment.

Shay

[purplegirl]

texting from my phone so it will be short-- you should visit the vineyard. it really is the place where upper middke to extremely wealthy black folk been coming for years! it is incredible. i am certain shay and ericka can speak more on it. i grew up in the black upper mid class and have lots of thoughts about that status.. cant go into it right no but i will later upon my return.Interesting - because I have never been in the company of upper middle class AA before. Maybe at the SF Symphony, or opera but it was usually an older person or couple.

Strange, now that I think about it. It might because of my location: all of the places that we vacationed here in California: La Jolla, Sea Ranch, Big Sur, Santa Barbabra, it was pretty hard to find another black person there. When we went to Sea Ranch a few weeks ago, I was tickled pink to see TWO black couples on two different occasions. :lol

[Valid28]

Hi everyone, I'd like to join in here. I am a woman of color, married with one child. I often feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I went to college for two years but never did finish my degree. I have worked a regular boring job, so no career for me. But I love to mingle with people of all types. Most of my friends are professionals and I often feel like a bit of a loser because I didn't finish my degree. I don't feel like a member of the elite because of this. At the same time I fully own who I am as woc but hate that often I feel left out because my tastes and choices aren't always mainstream black America. I hope I made some sense. Anyway, I just wanted to join in the conversation.



Shanese

[barose]

Hi everyone, I'd like to join in here. I am a woman of color, married with one child. I often feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I went to college for two years but never did finish my degree. I have worked a regular boring job, so no career for me. But I love to mingle with people of all types. Most of my friends are professionals and I often feel like a bit of a loser because I didn't finish my degree. I don't feel like a member of the elite because of this. At the same time I fully own who I am as woc but hate that often I feel left out because my tastes and choices aren't always mainstream black America. I hope I made some sense. Anyway, I just wanted to join in the conversation.



Shanese

Welcome!

A degree is not the be all end all. It HELPS and it is useful especially if you’re going into a specialized field, but it’s not the end of the world. I didn’t finish mine and DP doesn’t have one either. That doesn’t keep us out of the middle class income bracket though. DP is self-made entrepreneur so that is very helpful because at age 50 without a degree, and haven’t worked for anyone else in 20 years, who would hire him )no matter how youthful he is. :lol) He went to school for a while, but wasn’t the college type and didn’t finish.

We do feel like outcasts among our degreed friends, but its just a temporary feeling – especially when at parties. I felt a little left out yesterday when meeting with cousins who are in law and medical school. It’s just not my path though.

You can always finish school now or later in life. I plan on finishing an undergrad degree at a certain point, but I’m in no rush to do it.

One thing about not having a degree is that you have to “make” yourself because depending on where you are, the job market can be pretty competitive. My motivation is all of the successful entrepreneurs out there do did not finish (or even start) college.

------------------

Thanks purplegirl! I will try to make it a point to visit next time we are on the east coast (going to NYC in the fall)

[shayinme]

Hi everyone, I'd like to join in here. I am a woman of color, married with one child. I often feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I went to college for two years but never did finish my degree. I have worked a regular boring job, so no career for me. But I love to mingle with people of all types. Most of my friends are professionals and I often feel like a bit of a loser because I didn't finish my degree. I don't feel like a member of the elite because of this. At the same time I fully own who I am as woc but hate that often I feel left out because my tastes and choices aren't always mainstream black America. I hope I made some sense. Anyway, I just wanted to join in the conversation.



Shanese

Welcome. :D I so love to see WOC here at MDC. Girl, you are not a loser because you didn't finish your degree. I have a BA & M.Ed and truth is I made more money when I had no degree, I have still yet to make more in a year since I got these degrees than when I was a sales rep. So sometimes I don't feel the value of the degree, I enjoyed school and my education has allowed me to craft a living in a rather unorthodox way but its not all that.

Welcome!

A degree is not the be all end all. It HELPS and it is useful especially if you’re going into a specialized field, but it’s not the end of the world. I didn’t finish mine and DP doesn’t have one either. That doesn’t keep us out of the middle class income bracket though. DP is self-made entrepreneur so that is very helpful because at age 50 without a degree, and haven’t worked for anyone else in 20 years, who would hire him )no matter how youthful he is. :lol) He went to school for a while, but wasn’t the college type and didn’t finish.

We do feel like outcasts among our degreed friends, but its just a temporary feeling – especially when at parties. I felt a little left out yesterday when meeting with cousins who are in law and medical school. It’s just not my path though.

You can always finish school now or later in life. I plan on finishing an undergrad degree at a certain point, but I’m in no rush to do it.

One thing about not having a degree is that you have to “make” yourself because depending on where you are, the job market can be pretty competitive. My motivation is all of the successful entrepreneurs out there do did not finish (or even start) college.

------------------

Thanks purplegirl! I will try to make it a point to visit next time we are on the east coast (going to NYC in the fall)

Ditto to these points. By the way if any of you ladies ever end up in Maine, you must look me up. :love

[ishereal]

So much to talk about here!

So yesterday, we threw my grandmother a surprise birthday party. We got together with relatives who I haven’t seen in years or at all. We are a small family (40 at the MOST) but we are not very close. It was a nice small family reunion/b-day party.

Since most of my friends are not black, I don’t experience this very often, but yesterday I was bombarded with “good hair” comments. I guess I’m the only one besides my grandmother who has 3b/3c (don’t really know which – doesn’t matter). I mean it was a HUGE deal. :lol Its 2008 and I was stunned that this is still an issue. Most of my family is college educated, half are entrepreneurs – there is a pretty wide range of lifestyles, but the “good hair” thing lives on even with the guys.

I don’t even know how to respond. I guess I was in shock. I said “thank you” because my hair IS good, but not any better than my mother who has 4b hair. Its good in the way that ALL black hair or all hair for that matter is good as long as its healthy.

Does anyone deal with this? Does it bother you? How do you respond?

The infamous "good hair" topic. I don't know where to begin first off I wear my hair natural and I am 4b also. I consider my hair good, but I know that "good" in most other black peoples mind can mean anything from, long, curly, silky and etc. This has been imprinted upon us from childhood, we were taught to envy the light skinned wavy haired girls and looked down on the dark-skinned nappy head girls. No one had to verbally say it (although they did were I grew up) but how we were treated spoke volumes. A lot of it has its roots in slavery (I know most people don't want to talk about it) and we still have a lot of healing to do.............

[ishereal]

Did anyone see it?

p.s. I hope I fit here because I am by no means "elite", I have zero income and no college thus far :hide:

[barose]

The infamous "good hair" topic. I don't know where to begin first off I wear my hair natural and I am 4b also. I consider my hair good, but I know that "good" in most other black peoples mind can mean anything from, long, curly, silky and etc. This has been imprinted upon us from childhood, we were taught to envy the light skinned wavy haired girls and looked down on the dark-skinned nappy head girls. No one had to verbally say it (although they did were I grew up) but how we were treated spoke volumes. A lot of it has its roots in slavery (I know most people don't want to talk about it) and we still have a lot of healing to do.............

Ditto.



My father tells me when he was growing up, his aunt (who raised some of his siblings) used to treat his light-skinned sister waaay better than the other dark and nappy siblings. Pretty sad.


I hope my future children are not subjected to this on either end of the spectrum.

[shayinme]

Good hair.. ugh.... I only have a second but I so hate to even hear that term brought up, it irks me to say the least. :irked: More later.

@Purplegirl, yes indeed I could go on about upper crust Black folk in Maine. A lot of the native Black Mainers are indeed of that ilk, I tend to have a interesting relationship with them. I write for a local publication, plus in my early days here when I was actively seeking us out, I used to attend things like First Friday..LOL. Talk about being a long way from the south side of Chicago. More later, family wants dinner. LOL

[Jannah6]

I don't think I've ever posted here before, so I'll introduce myself. I'm Jannah, SAHM of 5 DC with 1 on the way(total surprise).

ETA: I've ALWAYS hated the term good hair. As for college, I've been "working" on my degree since 1993, LOL.

[princesstutu]

I, too, dislike the term "good hair." I call ppl on it whenever the opportunity arises. I find hair texture interesting, but only b/c it gets me thinking about genetics and ethnic backgrounds.

"Black hair" encompasses all textures and lengths. I've taken to telling folks that oily hair isn't inherently better than dry hair. When I put it that way, they usually shut up.

[jeca]

Did anyone see it?

p.s. I hope I fit here because I am by no means "elite", I have zero income and no college thus far :hide:

Welcome and of course you do we are in no way upper middle class and I have been coming here for years.:D
I think we need to also remember that MDC is general is comprised of the "upper elite" as far as income. During the income polls majority of the poll answers were in a household income of $100,000.

I have received the good hair comments all my life. I admit though I don't wear it natural anymore. I have highlights and I love them. :bag: My girls have 3A and 3B hair and it irks me every time someone makes the comment oh now I don't have to worry about this or that. Yeah cause curly hair needs no maintenance it's just comb and go.:eyesroll

[eilonwy]

i find it so so interesting that everyone is so apologetic about being elite.

:o It's funny, I just said something about elitism in another forum. The reason we're apologetic, by and large, is that egalitarianism is seen as being intrinsically superior to elitism in US society. It's a huge problem, if you ask me. The reason I brought it up, though, was that... well, we were talking about black issues in America, and as members of an elite group, we're *going* to have a different (or several different) take on things.

Since most of my friends are not black, I don’t experience this very often, but yesterday I was bombarded with “good hair” comments. I guess I’m the only one besides my grandmother who has 3b/3c (don’t really know which – doesn’t matter). I mean it was a HUGE deal. :lol Its 2008 and I was stunned that this is still an issue. Most of my family is college educated, half are entrepreneurs – there is a pretty wide range of lifestyles, but the “good hair” thing lives on even with the guys.
...
Does anyone deal with this? Does it bother you? How do you respond?

I'm not sure what 3B/3C means (it rings a vague bell... :scratch) but I understand "good hair." :irked: I think it's really sad and implies a level of self-hatred, but that it doesn't need to. "You have such good hair!" "All hair is good. I'm rather fond of mine, thanks." I say the exact same thing when someone tells me that I have "good babies." :shrug

That said... i love my hair. :joy: :innocent

My only problem with the "elite"term is that it creates yet another barrier between folks.

I don't think so; I mean, the barriers exist, and I don't think that they're necessarily bad, in and of themselves. I have no problem putting myself into boxes, even if I have to create new ones; I'm different, and that's fine. Refusing to label something doesn't change the fact of it's existance, you know? I'd rather acknowledge it and move along.

Hi everyone, I'd like to join in here. I am a woman of color, married with one child. I often feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I went to college for two years but never did finish my degree. I have worked a regular boring job, so no career for me. But I love to mingle with people of all types. Most of my friends are professionals and I often feel like a bit of a loser because I didn't finish my degree. I don't feel like a member of the elite because of this. At the same time I fully own who I am as woc but hate that often I feel left out because my tastes and choices aren't always mainstream black America. I hope I made some sense. Anyway, I just wanted to join in the conversation.

I must say, I'm loving the way that this conversation is pulling the lurkers out. :innocent :wave

The infamous "good hair" topic. I don't know where to begin first off I wear my hair natural and I am 4b also. I consider my hair good, but I know that "good" in most other black peoples mind can mean anything from, long, curly, silky and etc. This has been imprinted upon us from childhood, we were taught to envy the light skinned wavy haired girls and looked down on the dark-skinned nappy head girls. No one had to verbally say it (although they did were I grew up) but how we were treated spoke volumes. A lot of it has its roots in slavery (I know most people don't want to talk about it) and we still have a lot of healing to do.............

Then of course, there's the flip-side: While light-skinned, wavy/curly haired girls tend to be treated better by older black folks, there's a fair contingent of younger ones who'll treat you like crap for no other reason. It's entirely understandable, but it still hurts, especially when you're a child. These attitudes most assuredly play into the interracial marriage issue: I think that there's a lot of antagonism toward light-skinned black people, and as a result of that many light-skinned black folks may be looking for someone much darker than they to have children. Quite the backlash, really. And it's all so muddled and befuddled. On one hand, light-skinned people almost certainly have things easier in a predominantly white society, but on the other... if you deliberately choose to have lighter skinned children (like, you marry a white person) then you're choosing not to raise healthy, self-loving, proud black children. :dizzy:

p.s. I hope I fit here because I am by no means "elite", I have zero income and no college thus far :hide:

:lol Elite can be defined in oh so many ways. You're online; That makes you somewhat elite in and of itself. :o

Welcome and of course you do we are in no way upper middle class and I have been coming here for years.:D
I think we need to also remember that MDC is general is comprised of the "upper elite" as far as income. During the income polls majority of the poll answers were in a household income of $100,000.

Very true. :nod

I have received the good hair comments all my life. I admit though I don't wear it natural anymore. I have highlights and I love them. :bag: My girls have 3A and 3B hair and it irks me every time someone makes the comment oh now I don't have to worry about this or that. Yeah cause curly hair needs no maintenance it's just comb and go.:eyesroll

Mine is natural these days. So... anyone care to explain the numbers to me? :o Like I said, they're familiar but I can't remember what they mean at all. :lol

[AndrewsMother]

Mine is natural these days. So... anyone care to explain the numbers to me? :o Like I said, they're familiar but I can't remember what they mean at all. :lol

:yeah

Or would anyone be willing to show pictures of their hair and to list their hair rating.

[jeca]

Mine is natural these days. So... anyone care to explain the numbers to me? :o Like I said, they're familiar but I can't remember what they mean at all. :lol

http://www.curls.biz tells about different types of hair textures. I really like their products for my girls.

Here is the page on hair texture.
http://www.curls.biz/learn-about-curls/curls-product-guide.html#qhairtexture

[barose]

:yeah

Or would anyone be willing to show pictures of their hair and to list their hair rating.


Its not down in these black & white pictures so it may be hard to tell:

Hair 1 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/carlasher/hair1-vi.jpg)

Hair 2 (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/carlasher/hair2-vi.jpg)

And I have a small pic in my signature, but my hair was pretty dry...

[ajv]

i need some reference or definition too...tho are we perpetuating this foolishness by finding out what this means...we will see...

i have had to deal with the good hair comments all my life. when i found out i was pregnant with my daughter i promised myself i would NEVER EVER have hair longer than hers. this became quite the challenge b/c she was born BALD (lol!!!) i knew she would be bald because i had ZERO heartburn. i mean zero. i got heartburn once, after eating two jalepenos during the entire pregnancy. so i had my cousin cut my hair super super short right before i had her, now both of our hair is growing, but mine is growing faster so i am always running around desperate to get my hair cut...granted the child will be only one in a few weeks, but i am committed that she will never feel badly about her hair because of me. i have a younger sister who was always desperate to have long hair like mine, i felt bad about it, but didnt kno what to do (we are 9 years apart).

also, how do you do that little cut a quote and paste it thing...where you put someone else's quote in your post.

[ajv]

okay, so i am a 3A and my daughter is going to be a 4B.

[eilonwy]

:Oops: Double post!

[eilonwy]

i have had to deal with the good hair comments all my life. when i found out i was pregnant with my daughter i promised myself i would NEVER EVER have hair longer than hers. this became quite the challenge b/c she was born BALD (lol!!!) i knew she would be bald because i had ZERO heartburn. i mean zero. i got heartburn once, after eating two jalepenos during the entire pregnancy. so i had my cousin cut my hair super super short right before i had her, now both of our hair is growing, but mine is growing faster so i am always running around desperate to get my hair cut...granted the child will be only one in a few weeks, but i am committed that she will never feel badly about her hair because of me. i have a younger sister who was always desperate to have long hair like mine, i felt bad about it, but didnt kno what to do (we are 9 years apart).

also, how do you do that little cut a quote and paste it thing...where you put someone else's quote in your post.

I"m curious-- why would you make such a promise? I mean, I kind of understand that you might not want to make your daughter feel badly if her hair wasn't as long as yours, but cutting it for her sake? Isn't that just drawing attention to the fact that the two of you have different hair and you feel like she's in some kind of minority, that you don't want her to feel alone? I'm not articulating well here... I think I need to come back to this later.

The heartburn myth drives me batty. I had tons of heartburn with all but one of my kids, and they were all born in various stages of baldness. My sister had no heartburn at all, and my oldest niece was born with like, two inches of soft, silky, jet-black hair.

In the bottom right corner of every post are three boxes; The one in the middle has quotation marks. Click on that box for every post you want to quote, and when you hit "reply" all of those posts will appear in your box. Or, you could just type [ quote ]cut & pasted stuff you want to quote [ / quote], without the spaces. :thumb

Thanks for the link Jeca. I have that book somewhere. :lol I'm 3A, my kids are 1B, 2B, 2A and too young to tell. :o

[barose]

This has the meanings of the hair types
http://www.naturallycurly.com/hair-types (http://www.naturallycurly.com/hair-types)
http://hair.lovetoknow.com/4a_4b_3c_Hair_Type (http://hair.lovetoknow.com/4a_4b_3c_Hair_Type)

I only found it useful when I first went natural and had a hard time finding products for my hair ways of styling, combing, etc. Its also a good guide when I'm looking for someone to cut my hair (to describe over the phone to see if its worth going in for a consult) - though I havent cut it in ages.

Speaking of hair cutting, my family also have long hair fetishes :lol. They were constantly pulling my hair that was back in a tie down my back to check the length. Three of my cousins have sister locks and going natural, but that doesn’t stop ‘em.

[ishereal]

my pics are in my siggy!

[ishereal]

I see from some of you ladies sigs that you homeschool, that's very encouraging, I don't know any WOC irl that do.

[eilonwy]

my pics are in my siggy!

you're so pretty!

[barose]

you're so pretty!


:yeah:

[ajv]

I"m curious-- why would you make such a promise? I mean, I kind of understand that you might not want to make your daughter feel badly if her hair wasn't as long as yours, but cutting it for her sake? Isn't that just drawing attention to the fact that the two of you have different hair and you feel like she's in some kind of minority, that you don't want her to feel alone? I'm not articulating well here... I think I need to come back to this later.



The heartburn myth drives me batty. I had tons of heartburn with all but one of my kids, and they were all born in various stages of baldness. My sister had no heartburn at all, and my oldest niece was born with like, two inches of soft, silky, jet-black hair.


Thanks for the link Jeca. I have that book somewhere. :lol I'm 3A, my kids are 1B, 2B, 2A and too young to tell. :o



i hope this works (the quotation thing), it is the length that is the thing. most people dont notice the different textures of short hair, it is hard to tell how curly/straight my hair is without the added weight of the length. so even tho we have different hair, it doesnt LOOK different due the same or similar length. yes, i dont want her to feel alone, and yes, she is in the minority she is an african american girl, i dont want everyone on tv AND her mama having hair longer than hers, my reasoning is that it will benefit her self esteem. hair length is a standard of beauty in the dominant culture.


i thot the heartburn thing was an old wives tale, then i saw a little blurb in some parenting magazine that said scientists linked the enzyme that creates hair in unborn children with heartburn for pregnant women...it was a strong correlative not a predictor. i cut it out and sent it to my mama just so she could tell me " i told you so..."

[ishereal]

you're so pretty!

:yeah:

:joy: Thank You

[NishaG]

Wow..I haven't been to this thread in a while. However, this convo is quite interesting. Let me re-introduce myself: My name is Nisha, I am 35, married (to a Black Man) and the mother of 2 sons. I also have PCOS. I grew up in the East Bay, but now live in a suburb of Sacramento (the eternal search for "good" public schools). I am TTC #3, and hope that, once I do conceive, I am able to have a homebirth with a midwife.

I'll just hit and miss a few topics: My DH is light-skinned, very much so, and, I really think it bothers him when/if people comment on it. His whole immediate family is light, and, they were kind of treated like "royalty" by their peers while growing up in Oakland. It may have also been the combination of them living in the "hills", having a mom who SAH and a dad that was able to support the whole family of 7.

I guess I would be considered elite: We own our own home, are educated, I'm more crunchy than not, and we are kind of removed from the lifestyle of I guess the "average" Black Family?

As far as friends go, I have more African-American friends online at soulcysters than I do in real life, and, the majority of them are college-educated, and I guess you would say elite, as most of them are TTC as well and in committed relationships.

Glad to meet you all.

[eilonwy]

i hope this works (the quotation thing), it is the length that is the thing. most people dont notice the different textures of short hair, it is hard to tell how curly/straight my hair is without the added weight of the length. so even tho we have different hair, it doesnt LOOK different due the same or similar length. yes, i dont want her to feel alone, and yes, she is in the minority she is an african american girl, i dont want everyone on tv AND her mama having hair longer than hers, my reasoning is that it will benefit her self esteem. hair length is a standard of beauty in the dominant culture.

Right... that's the problem I have. It is a standard of beauty in the dominant culture, but by refusing to have your hair longer than your daughter's... well, don't you feel like you're perpetuating that standard? As to different textures, do you think your daughter won't notice that yours is different from hers?

My older nieces both have thick, "nappy" hair. When she was 18 months old my niece knew that her hair and my hair were different (in fact, her hair was very different from that of anyone in our family-- she's probably a 4A). She told me once that when she grew up, she was going to be just like me: She'd have big boobs, a big butt, and long, curly red hair. :o I told her that it wasn't likely-- she was probably going to grow up to be be tall, slim, have a less-pronounced figure and that her hair would still be nappy when she grew up. She'd also be a beautiful girl and a wonderful human being. :joy: It's not that I have a problem with short haired women-- I've shaved my hair many times (in fact, I was entirely bald for about two years relatively recently), but it was my choice, and it was for myself. My nieces don't resent the length of my hair, and I don't resent the fact that they don't look bald and ridiculous in cornrows. I'm not going to send the message to them that there's something less beautiful about short hair or more beautiful about long hair by running in the opposite direction and denouncing the hair I was born with. I mean what would that possibly teach them about self-love, that it only applies or is necessary if you're a minority? Honestly, I think that self-hatred on the part of "majority" members causes at least as many problems for minorites as the lack of self-love within minority communities.


And.. I'm still not really buying the heartburn thing, not that it's relevant. I realize that the plural of anecdote is not data, but I can't think of anyone for whom it held true. :shrug

[AndrewsMother]

Right... that's the problem I have. It is a standard of beauty in the dominant culture, but by refusing to have your hair longer than your daughter's... well, don't you feel like you're perpetuating that standard? As to different textures, do you think your daughter won't notice that yours is different from hers?

My older nieces both have thick, "nappy" hair. When she was 18 months old my niece knew that her hair and my hair were different (in fact, her hair was very different from that of anyone in our family-- she's probably a 4A). She told me once that when she grew up, she was going to be just like me: She'd have big boobs, a big butt, and long, curly red hair. :o I told her that it wasn't likely-- she was probably going to grow up to be be tall, slim, have a less-pronounced figure and that her hair would still be nappy when she grew up. She'd also be a beautiful girl and a wonderful human being. :joy: It's not that I have a problem with short haired women-- I've shaved my hair many times (in fact, I was entirely bald for about two years relatively recently), but it was my choice, and it was for myself. My nieces don't resent the length of my hair, and I don't resent the fact that they don't look bald and ridiculous in cornrows. I'm not going to send the message to them that there's something less beautiful about short hair or more beautiful about long hair by running in the opposite direction and denouncing the hair I was born with. I mean what would that possibly teach them about self-love, that it only applies or is necessary if you're a minority? Honestly, I think that self-hatred on the part of "majority" members causes at least as many problems for minorites as the lack of self-love within minority communities.


And.. I'm still not really buying the heartburn thing, not that it's relevant. I realize that the plural of anecdote is not data, but I can't think of anyone for whom it held true. :shrug

Your words were well said. I feel the exact same way except your way of writing is so much more eloquent than mine.

Ajv,

if for example you were of a fair complexion and your sister were of a dark complexion and grew up jealous of your skin tone would you have only sought out men of a lighter hue to marry in hopes that any unborn children would not be dark and perhaps feel inferior to you because of their skin color?

I am asking simply because a parent can possess many attributes that could possibly make their child(ren) feel inferior. My mother always gets what she wants, and at times I wish that I had that gift. compared to her I will forever be a shrill sparrow and she lioness.

Your daughter should learn to embrace whatever hair God has given here and not judge her standard of beauty against you or anyone else, just as I have learned to realize that I have far more diplomacy and wisdom than my mother may ever possess. It is our job as black women of this generation to break the ridiculous cycle that long hair and fair skin is the definition of beauty.

[Barbamama]

to introduce myself and to thank you all for such a great discussion in the past couple of days. It prompted me to start thinking about and talking with DH about how we will prepare DD to handle the "good hair, fair skin" foolishness when it rears its ugly head. My parents didn't do that for me, and while it wasn't the biggest deficit in my upbringing, it did take me a long time to become aware of all of the subtle ways that it informed my relationships, both inside and outside of our family.

DH is white, French, and sees nationality as a more defining characteristic than race, something I'm starting to understand better. But when he first told me, "Honey, I'm not white, I'm French" I looked at him like he had lost his mind. Just didn't compute for this African-American woman. And he's learning more of the subtle ways prejudices influence daily life in the US, including dividing people of the same race.

Which takes me back to the hair thing . . . . My thoughts are still pretty amorphous, so I won't share them just yet -- ya'll are such a smart, well-spoken group I feel like I need to pull them together a bit more. And the "Mama!!!" that DD just shouted over the monitor tells me that nap time has ended. Let the toddler games begin!

But again, thank you!! Hope you don't mind if I join in!!

[ishereal]

to introduce myself and to thank you all for such a great discussion in the past couple of days. It prompted me to start thinking about and talking with DH about how we will prepare DD to handle the "good hair, fair skin" foolishness when it rears its ugly head. My parents didn't do that for me, and while it wasn't the biggest deficit in my upbringing, it did take me a long time to become aware of all of the subtle ways that it informed my relationships, both inside and outside of our family.

DH is white, French, and sees nationality as a more defining characteristic than race, something I'm starting to understand better. But when he first told me, "Honey, I'm not white, I'm French" I looked at him like he had lost his mind. Just didn't compute for this African-American woman. And he's learning more of the subtle ways prejudices influence daily life in the US, including dividing people of the same race.

Which takes me back to the hair thing . . . . My thoughts are still pretty amorphous, so I won't share them just yet -- ya'll are such a smart, well-spoken group I feel like I need to pull them together a bit more. And the "Mama!!!" that DD just shouted over the monitor tells me that nap time has ended. Let the toddler games begin!

But again, thank you!! Hope you don't mind if I join in!!
:w

[sunshinestarr]

Ok this thread is way too active for me! :) But I wanted to say that I'm lurking and enjoying, even if I can't really keep up.

[princesstutu]

DH is white, French, and sees nationality as a more defining characteristic than race, something I'm starting to understand better. But when he first told me, "Honey, I'm not white, I'm French" I looked at him like he had lost his mind. Just didn't compute for this African-American woman. And he's learning more of the subtle ways prejudices influence daily life in the US, including dividing people of the same race.


That's fascinating to me, as I've known a few French people of "mixed race" and they suffered a lot of racism in France b/c of it. I wonder if there is a strong urban vs. where ever element to French racism.

Hair, to me, is something we really need to stop worrying about. Right now, my hair is "relaxed." For about 8 years, I'd worn it natural (shaved, TWA, longer w/my spiral curls, etc.), but now...I straightened it. Sometimes, my hair is a political statement. Right now, it's not. I just like to switch it up a bit and I think it's good that our daughters also see hair as "just an accessory." Like earrings or anklets.

My older daughter has locs b/c she doesn't like to get her hair done. Period. I'm not trying to make a statement with her hair, altho I do looooove locs and I think they really add to her beauty. (Everyone loves her hair. It actually annoys her to get so many compliments. LOL) She does want long hair and so, as her locs grow, she enjoys her hair more. I think the enjoyment is key.

My younger daughter rocks braids and puffs, b/c her hair wouldn't take locs when I tried them. She, too, hates to get her hair done. I don't like doing hair on the regular, so I've thought about shaving their heads, but their dad would have a fit. Not worth the hassle.

I can't remember where I was going with this, so I'll stop here. :lol

[barose]

DH is white, French, and sees nationality as a more defining characteristic than race, something I'm starting to understand better. But when he first told me, "Honey, I'm not white, I'm French" I looked at him like he had lost his mind. Just didn't compute for this African-American woman. And he's learning more of the subtle ways prejudices influence daily life in the US, including dividing people of the same race.





Interesting! Because when I speak of a European (or any other nationality) I know, I usually say, "French woman" English man", "Dutch child" NOT "white" or "black" no matter what color their skin is. For Americans, we are only white, black, Asian, Latino or other - not just American.

[ishereal]

Sometimes, my hair is a political statement. Right now, it's not. I just like to switch it up a bit and I think it's good that our daughters also see hair as "just an accessory." Like earrings or anklets.



That's the thing, I don't think that hair is just an accessory. It is very much apart of who I am like my arm or leg and I choose not to alter it's natural texture. How you wear your hair does say something about you (wether it's true or not), choosing to wear your hair natural speaks volume and today is seen as a political statement. Chemical fire are dangerous and filled with tons of carcinogens.

[barose]

That's the thing, I don't think that hair is just an accessory. It is very much apart of who I am like my arm or leg and I choose not to alter it's natural texture. How you wear your hair does say something about you (wether it's true or not), choosing to wear your hair natural speaks volume and today is seen as a political statement. Chemical fire are dangerous and filled with tons of carcinogens.

I think it can be both. My mother went natural seven years ago with her 4b hair and locked it. She didn’t have a statement agenda, she was just sick of the fire cream and not being able to swim and sweat when she wants.

Her locks are in a short bob, and her hair is cute and makes a statement to other Black women that even nappy hair (not just "good hair") can be natural. I feel like I can’t really say anything to anyone about going natural because I have "good hair" so 'what do I know?" :irked: I’ve gotten crap about it when I stopped straightening my hair, so I don’t open my mouth about it anymore unless asked.

[princesstutu]

How you wear your hair does say something about you (wether it's true or not), choosing to wear your hair natural speaks volume and today is seen as a political statement. Chemical fire are dangerous and filled with tons of carcinogens.
Meh. No offense, but I just don't totally agree. I know lots of ppl with locs who don't have the consciousness God gave a gnat. It's just a hairstyle. And, I've decided that that's not a bad thing. Hair is sometimes just hair.

I wouldn't make assumptions about a person based on his or her hairstyle anymore than I'd make assumptions based on skin darkness. Add to that the fact that non-WOC rock the "unnatural" hair all the time and no one gets on them about it and I just can't be bothered to care on that level, anymore.

I see your point, tho.

IMO, all hair is "good" hair. Bald is "good", too. Hair can be seen as a significant indicator, but that's a choice, really. I think how hair affects a person is highly individual and I know I went natural b/c I needed to work out my hair issues. (I didn't realize I had any until my dd was born.) People have to be confident and introspective enough to find their own truths. Hair for me...no big deal. Hair for someone else...big deal. And, that's okay. I like the sociological aspects of the discussion, but when it comes down to it...assumptions are not always the healthiest thoughts to rely upon.

[eilonwy]

I am not my hair (http://youtube.com/watch?v=M5y9A4DKmjM). :lol

[shayinme]

That's the thing, I don't think that hair is just an accessory. It is very much apart of who I am like my arm or leg and I choose not to alter it's natural texture. How you wear your hair does say something about you (wether it's true or not), choosing to wear your hair natural speaks volume and today is seen as a political statement. Chemical fire are dangerous and filled with tons of carcinogens.

I'm not really sure I agree with this, when I first went natural almost 9 years ago I felt the same way you do but the longer I am natural it really is just part of who I am as a person. Even my locs, I have been loced now 4 years and at first I had a lot of energy tied up in them but recently I realized its just hair.

I think as Black women we need to be careful about grouping folks by hair especially as being natural has become almost trendy, one only has to go to certain large hair boards and I have seen folks wanting locs without even being natural. For them locs is not deep, its not spiritual, its just hair. That said, I have known some deep sistas, my former advisor in college who opened my eyes in so many ways yet she was relaxed. There are some seriously deep sistas whp forever whatever reasons choose to relax. I agree its not the healthiest or the most natural thing but at this stage in my naptural journey I let folks be.

Shay

[Barbamama]

That's fascinating to me, as I've known a few French people of "mixed race" and they suffered a lot of racism in France b/c of it. I wonder if there is a strong urban vs. where ever element to French racism.


From what I've been able to discern French racism has a fundamental anti-immigrant, (esp. recent immigrant) "where are you from" gloss to it. (Not that we don't have the same sentiments here in the US, but that's another thread altogether). In other words, are you French from continental France? Or from elsewhere? -- esp. North Africa. Also, it seems that interracial relationships (therefore perhaps "mixed-race" children?) aren't well received in certain regions, esp. the French Caribbean. Wonder if that was part of your friends' experience? DH has said that we wouldn't have an easy time of it if we were to move to Martinique or Guadeloupe in particular. I can only wonder what THAT's about. Guess we'll just have to make do with St. Barth's. :D

B/c DH isn't of African descent his perspective and experiences are, well, just his. (I'm dying to sit down with a few French ("from France" and "from elsewhere") sistas and get their perspectives.) That said, DH's circle of friends growing up was slightly more diverse than mine was; if adjusted to account for France's far more homogeneous population, he had a Benetton ad life compared to mine. Which of course could have been a result of cross-racial bonding over soccer. . . .


Interesting! Because when I speak of a European (or any other nationality) I know, I usually say, "French woman" English man", "Dutch child" NOT "white" or "black" no matter what color their skin is.

And that's just the way that DH's family thinks. Funny story, slightly OT, but I'll share: DH's conversation with his (86 year old, hard-of-hearing, slightly senile) grandmother upon her seeing hospital pics of the baby and us went something like a cross-cultural Abbot & Costello "Who's on First":

GM: She's very tan! [speaking of me] Did you all go to the beach? [it was December, BTW]
DH: Well, she's African-American.
GM: Yes, American.
DH: African-American. Her ancestors are from Africa.
GM: But you said she was American.
DH: She is, but her family is from Africa.
GM: She's African?
DH: No, she's American. A Black American.

[extended exchange about who's on first, what's American]

Finally --

DH (a bit frustrated) : Her family is from Madagascar. (Which is true, but about 200 year-old news).
GM: Aaah! OK, she's Malagasy!
DH: Yeah, sort of . . . .

Apparently "African-American" doesn't translate well without reference to a specific African country of origin. And "Black" doesn't translate at all. :shrug

[ishereal]

I'm not really sure I agree with this, when I first went natural almost 9 years ago I felt the same way you do but the longer I am natural it really is just part of who I am as a person. Even my locs, I have been loced now 4 years and at first I had a lot of energy tied up in them but recently I realized its just hair.

I think as Black women we need to be careful about grouping folks by hair especially as being natural has become almost trendy, one only has to go to certain large hair boards and I have seen folks wanting locs without even being natural. For them locs is not deep, its not spiritual, its just hair. That said, I have known some deep sistas, my former advisor in college who opened my eyes in so many ways yet she was relaxed. There are some seriously deep sistas whp forever whatever reasons choose to relax. I agree its not the healthiest or the most natural thing but at this stage in my naptural journey I let folks be.

Shay
Yes I know that wearing your hair natural does not = consciousness, trust me I have had a couple of rude awakenings. But I see natural hair as a step towards embracing who you are.... but that's just me

[jeca]

I am not my hair (http://youtube.com/watch?v=M5y9A4DKmjM). :lol

I love her song brown skinned, love it love it!
I am NOT my hair. I have worn my hair several ways over the years but because of the "texture" it may not have been easily identifiable as "natural". So many people think natural they think kinky, wild, free that is the perceived look. Well I do not have "kinky" hair natural or not. If you were to see me on the street would my silken spirals still be perceived as natural or would you assume I'm a sister who sat under the dryer for ever. That is why I'm not comfortable with the hair as a statement because it's easy to misidentify. I don't think I'm making sense I feel very tired today.

OT. WHat do think of the trend that we as people tend to buy certain clothes. My mother for instance makes comments to me all the time on how I need to be DS(10)cool clothes and cool shoes. By cool she means things like FuBu or Jordan's which my son has never expressed an interest in and I have no desire to spend $80 on one pair of shoes when a pair of $30 sketchers is what he likes and works just fine. We live in a "white" area and she feels that he is being pulled into their style. I don't see why FUBU and Jordan's need to be identified as "our style" when it's not affordable for a lot black people. I'm rambling aren't I? It just makes me mad when she says things like this. I have no problem buying those items on sale, but I won't spend an entire school clothing budget on two outfits and one pair of shoes. :irked: So I took DS to the store and let him pick out the things he wanted it consisted mainly of t-shirts with different designs on them a few non name style polo shirts. If that is what he wants to wear I'm happy and my wallet is happy. My would have been SIL who is on various types of govt. assistance buys each of her oldest three kids Jordan's for school and then has to borrow gas money of can't get them the extra things like new socks and underwear. My niece rocks rocawear to school but can't take the ballet lessons she wants. What do you think do you feel we are obligated to buy more black owned company clothing or is that simply buying into yet another stereotype?

[eilonwy]

Clothing. :shake To preface this, my sisters' biggest problem with the way that I buy clothing is that I "allow" BeanBean to wear pink in public. My youngest sister (Chibi's mom) actually has decent taste in clothing; The girls wear clothing that fits well, and which is appropriate for their ages. Yeah, occasionally my sister will buy fancy Nikes or Baby Phat outfits for them... but she works three jobs, and it's her perogative. As far as making the girls "cool," I think she's probably given up hope with the older two. :lol They're too independant, both of them. :thumb She once bought Bean a pair of G-Unit jeans... and she bought him a Ralph Lauren dress shirt (it was pink :lol) which he adores.

She doesn't spend ridiculous amounts of money, though... she gets these things at places like TJ Maxx. And like I said, I figure it's her perogative. She's not imposing her style on anyone else, really. When Chibi was little she (15!) bought some absolutely ridiculous things. Mom couldn't talk her into taking them back. I couldn't either, but I finally said, "Look, she'll have at least 30 years when that's appropriate, but she's only got two when she'll be at her most adorable in babydoll dresses and ruffle-butt bloomers," and the baby hoochie styles went back to the store.

Does she need to buy "black" clothing? I think that given the choice between two outfits of similar price and similar appropriateness, she'd go with the one by the black designer. No, I know she would. I probably would, too. :shrug Bean's fairly easy to dress, but if I could find inexpensive Apple Bottoms for BooBah I'd be all over them (baby got back :lol). "Ghetto gap" is unattractive, regardless of the age of the person wearing the jeans. :lol

[jeca]

hat given the choice between two outfits of similar price and similar appropriateness, she'd go with the one by the black designer. No, I know she would. I probably would, too.l

That I could understand. If something is on sale at a great price of course I'd buy it but to pay $55 for a shirt just because it's suppose to be "For US By Us" just isn't it for me. I think it's out of a lot of peoples reach but they try to buy it anyway because that's the way it's suppose to be.

[AndrewsMother]

OT. WHat do think of the trend that we as people tend to buy certain clothes. What do you think do you feel we are obligated to buy more black owned company clothing or is that simply buying into yet another stereotype?


I often have the same thoughts. I for one do not like clothing by most black owned companies simply because I am not fond of the urban look. I purchase mostly conservative clothing and I have yet to find styles deigned by a black company that just don't look "hood" or over the top urban trendy.

I don't need embellishments or wording just plain simple Ann Taylor or Anthropologie type clothing. I love to spend my money within my race so why can't a black designer make clothing of a conservative style?

As for my son, I abhor Jordans and any clothing that looks urban athletic.

[barose]

I’m a clothing girl, but never been into the urban look myself. Marithe Francois Girbaud is as about as “urban” as it gets . :lol I prefer a more “street style” to and dressy approach and it would be nice if more black designers step out of the hip-hop box and realize that we have a variety of tastes in clothing and design.

[jeca]

it would be nice if more black designers step out of the hip-hop box and realize that we have a variety of tastes in clothing and design.

This has been the cause of various discussions in my family as I don't wear urban wear either and neither does my children. My sister thinks it's like denying a piece of our culture.
Dh and I both have the same thought. We were in a store a few weeks ago and he was looking for something for his birthday. He gets more frustrated by the minute. Finally he turns to me and asks why is it that the only clothing in his size(about a 38-40) is all hip hopped out and graffitied up not to mention $80 for a pair of shorts as if thats the only clothing that "we" wear? He goes over to the "white style" section and points out that over here all they have is sizes 32-36's and their shorts are $30 for a pair. He left frustrated mumbling on how maybe he would like a damn pair of khaki's or something. They need to expand their style instead of trying to group everyone into that mold. M

[Barbamama]

and it would be nice if more black designers step out of the hip-hop box and realize that we have a variety of tastes in clothing and design.

You know, when I thought about it, I couldn't come up with a single living black designer who didn't have his/her roots in the music industry. Patrick Kelly and Willi Smith, both long dead, are the only two who I'd ever heard of. (Until a quick Google revealed Tracy Reese, a sister who's "made it" according to my quick read.)

That's no accident. Cross-marketing between music and the urban/hip-hop clothing makes more money for an already popular artist, his/her record label and the company backing the clothing line; so long as the clothing comports with the genre/image of the music everybody's happy.

As for why blacks not affiliated with the music industry aren't more successful in fashion, one hypothesis off the top of my gourd: lack of access to capital. Biases about what appeals to whom come into play, and if those handing out the $$ can't conceive of a black designer's creations as having broad appeal, then those designers are not going to get the backing they need to get off the ground. :angry I know squat about financing in the fashion industry, so grain of salt recommended.

ETA: A little rant-y today, I am. Sorry. The thought that urban style and black peoples' style are co-terminus ticks me off a bit.

[Draupadi]

HI!
I was hoping this Tribe would be resurrected.:D
I'm Williamsmama, or Sheila if you prefer. I'm a 37 mom from New York City, 1/2 African American and 1/2 Korean, and currently a SAHM. I'll be going back to work in the Fall (I'm a teacher).
I'm glad to see you ladies here!
Sometimes I need some sistas to talk to...
Anyway...hair.
I stopped relaxing my hair back in the 90's. I went through a good 10 years or so of having strong, natural hair, but since I had my son, it's just been a mess.
It's sad that our hair is so political. Being 1/2 Asian, I've had friends' mothers say things like "Oh, you're lucky that you were born with a little help". When I stopped relaxing, those comments stopped.
My brother has locs down past his butt and I sometimes wished I had the patience to grow locs too. My DH prefers my hair natural and dislikes straightened hair. He generally believes black women look better with natural hair.
Anyway...that's my .02. Just really wanted to say hi!

[Draupadi]

I too have not had a friend since high school and neither she nor I had anything in common. We still communicate with one another today, but she and I are not close. Evenin high school I never told her my true feelings. Even today she will tell me that I am the smartest person that I know and that past mistakes do not matter, but we can't just sit down and reveal our inner self because she would not understand. My family did not approve of our relationship then and I know that they would not now. My family has a high standard of conduct that I sometimes feel as if I can't live up to.

As I type I can maybe realize why a black man with similar upbrining might have a hard time finding a black wife if I can't even find the right black friend. Interracial marriage is quite common in my family and I have never gievn it a thought until right now.

.

This is so interesting, Piad.
I consider myself lucky as I grew up in very diverse and somewhat lower to mid-middle class neighborhoods for most of my life.
Growing up, my friends were always such a mix, but my closest friends in H.S. (where I went to a specialized school) and now are mostly black.

[eilonwy]

You know, when I thought about it, I couldn't come up with a single living black designer who didn't have his/her roots in the music industry.

Oh, that's not true. There are sports stars with clothing lines, too. :rolleyes

I hear you, though. I really wish there were more things which were... well, older. :shrug I don't have a problem with the urban look, but I'm 30 years old and I have no desire to look like a teenager. I'd love to see more clothing designed to fit figures like mine-- the once-it-was-an-hourglass, big round booty and boobs to balance the effect figure. :lol I mean, I've met exactly two white people who had figures like mine in my entire life, but *dozens* of black ones. I'd love to be able to buy a nice skirt that was the same length over my behind that it is in the front. :dizzy:

I'm kind of curious about the Worthington line at JC Penney's; THeir clothing fits me relatively well. I think there's either a black designer or they've got a black size model for their petites, because things are quite round. :o Too bad most of it looks entirely too old. :o

Welcome, Sheila! I had no idea there was a black mama/white baby smilie! :thumb Your little man is *ADORABLE*!! He's almost as cute as mine. :wink :lol

[Draupadi]

Thanks, Eilonwy (sp?)!
Actually, I remember looking at your pictures a few days ago thinking my son is going to look the way your oldest son looks in a few years!
:D
I found that smilie recently and started to use it. I didn't think the afro one quite fit me as well as this one.
My boy's got a nice tan going on so he looks more like me. I think before he got it, folks in my neighborhood were probably thinking I was his nanny.

[princesstutu]

re: clothing

I buy what's cute and cheap. Period. I buy thrift, I buy new. But, I won't buy expensive, unless it's a coat. FUBU isn't even owned by black ppl, anymore, so I'm not sure why that's an issue. I refuse to pay to walk around advertising for folks, as much as I can help it. Walking around with company names written on your clothes is just tacky to me and I won't participate or allow my kids to participate when they're with me.

I think Sean John is a pretty neutral line. Not too hip-hop/urban, whatever. Walks that fine line. It's expensive, tho. You know, you gotta help Puffy keep up his lifestyle. :lol

For women, I guess it's harder, but I honestly don't look for black designers. I don't have an interest in designers at all.

[jeca]

I didn't know FUBU wasn't owned by black people anymore. I don't read up much on things like that so I'm always out of the loop. my best clothes have come from the thrift store.:shy

[Draupadi]

I refuse to pay to walk around advertising for folks, as much as I can help it. Walking around with company names written on your clothes is just tacky to me and I won't participate or allow my kids to participate when they're with me.

---
For women, I guess it's harder, but I honestly don't look for black designers. I don't have an interest in designers at all.

:yeah: to all of that. I find most of that stuff ugly anyway. I tend to not buy anything with any writing. I buy mostly from discount stores or The Gap.

[AndrewsMother]

re: clothing

I think Sean John is a pretty neutral line. Not too hip-hop/urban, whatever. Walks that fine line. It's expensive, tho. You know, you gotta help Puffy keep up his lifestyle. :lol
QUOTE]

And/or his child support!:rotflmao

[QUOTE=WilliamsMama;11834198]:yeah: to all of that. I find most of that stuff ugly anyway. I tend to not buy anything with any writing. I buy mostly from discount stores or The Gap.

Ugly is being nice.

[ajv]

we buy mostly from thrift stores, avoid writing/logos, ebay...we did like to buy the george foreman line at the big and tall men's store for my husband, but it isnt there anymore. sorry to hear about fubu, i was always happy to buy something from goodwill with their logo.

[oyinmama]

uhm, ok so how come i wander away from MDC for a few weeks and this thread gets jumpstarted in a major exciting way!??

hi beautiful mamas - i'm still catching up somewhere on page 8 but in some weird time-warpy way i feel the compulsion to post RIGHT!!! NOW!!! even though i'm not exactly chiming into a current conversation - just to say hi i'm here and i'm excited to be reading y'all.

[xochimama]

hola, mamas

interesting to read the hair & clothing discussions-- for Latinos I think the same toxic brew exists but not around those topics, it's all about language and speech mannerisms. So to be a "real Latino" you have to either speak Spanish or speak with certain Spanglish mannerisms. Or be "brown enough" for people to know that you are Latino.

And then, of course, there are race divides for Latinos: some of us have roots in the African diaspora (esp. Caribbean Latinos) but zero identification with AA history & culture. Some of us have very strong Mexican identification. Some have very strong Central Am identification, &c., and the intermixing gets even more heady... Latin Am is full of mixed races... throw class divide in the mix (and yes, "white" Latinos, historically, have fared better than "morenos") and ugh... it's a lot to take in.

Here's another thing that we are fighting over (:eyesroll) : Latino versus Hispanic vs. Chicano vs. [insert country-specific]-American ie Mexican-American, Cuban-American, etc...

how is is that even among ourselves we manage to find things to pick apart...?:eyesroll :(

[shayinme]

hola, mamas

interesting to read the hair & clothing discussions-- for Latinos I think the same toxic brew exists but not around those topics, it's all about language and speech mannerisms. So to be a "real Latino" you have to either speak Spanish or speak with certain Spanglish mannerisms. Or be "brown enough" for people to know that you are Latino.

And then, of course, there are race divides for Latinos: some of us have roots in the African diaspora (esp. Caribbean Latinos) but zero identification with AA history & culture. Some of us have very strong Mexican identification. Some have very strong Central Am identification, &c., and the intermixing gets even more heady... Latin Am is full of mixed races... throw class divide in the mix (and yes, "white" Latinos, historically, have fared better than "morenos") and ugh... it's a lot to take in.

Here's another thing that we are fighting over (:eyesroll) : Latino versus Hispanic vs. Chicano vs. [insert country-specific]-American ie Mexican-American, Cuban-American, etc...

how is is that even among ourselves we manage to find things to pick apart...?:eyesroll :(


Good points about Latinos, I used to live in Chicago and it was no joke at how fast folks would get mad if you called a Mexican a PR or vice-versa. Then like you said for Latinos who do have roots in the African diaspora yet don't connect with AA culture.. we do create a lot of tensions for ourselves as times.

Shay

[purplegirl]

I am back from vacation and exhausted. It is great to see this tribe active again. I'll be back when I am of sound mind to post more.
Peace.

[Brown Lioness]

YAY!, great to see this tribe active again! Im still here, lurking and all (but i think i'll post once i catch up), lol.

[oyinmama]

well, i really *really* have enjoyed catching up, and would like to say a welcome to all the new members and a hello to all the vets from a sporadic lurker!

so many things are interesting about what's been being said recently. (grammar police?) ...

the 'elite' thing - innnteresting. even though i hadnt known the class/demographics of the MDC board in particular, it is easy to understand how a board dedicated to self-educating about alternative childrearing practices would be a group full of people with a little more access to information, a little more health care choice, a little more free time than perhaps is normal in our society.

i was raised semi-granola (panafrican parents, natural hair, food co-op/health food store, semi-veg, home made clothes & toys, no/limited TV, emphasis on education, etc) in the 1980s and my parents had hardly any money. so, although i have always felt outside of the mainstream of african-american culture, i never thought of myself as 'elite' - just 'odd.'

that being said, i do consider myself an elite in that i am a member of a small sub-group: i'm a proud 'black nerd' (DH and i used to screenprint t-shirts that said 'BLACK NERDS UNITE' :lol) i consider myself VERY lucky to have many (like, half a dozen, LOL) really close, similarly cynical, outside-the-mainstream, nerdy black friends. to me who grew up a loner, this seems like a veritable BLOCK PARTY. in addition, my circle is full of smart and sexy black men who love and support (and marry!) their partners, support their families, homeschool and/or have a huge part in the daily rearing of their children, etc.

i am also firmly aware that elitism in the black community often means other things; although both of my parents are black, my family is cross-cultural in many ways. my mom's family is east coast traditional/historical black elite: the whole light skin, straight hair, professional/middle class, martha's vineyard, jack & jill type situation. my father's family is east coast classic: mid century migration from the rural south, blue collar roots. my siblings and i are among the lightest cousins on my father's side of the family, and the darkest cousins on my mother's side. quite grounding, IMHO.



the hair thing - that hair typing thing is a mess ;) but it does come in handy for descriptive purposes. politically, i do believe that when black women - or women of any race with curly/kinky hair - straighten our hair, we are helping do our tiny part to perpetuate a eurocentric patriarchal beauty standard; and are participating in the devaluation of our racial type by treating our natural characteristics as some sort of 'problem' in need of fixing.

personally, i have relaxed my hair for maybe 6 years out of my life, mainly during high school, and during that time i was magically transformed from 'that nappyheaded girl' to 'that lightskinned girl.' so i've seen the hair thing from both sides; choosing to straighten after being natural, and choosing to be natural after straightening. for the past 14 years that i've worn a fro, locks, and a fro again, it's become less and less dramatic a situation for me in my daily life. i don't rant or prostheletize about it, or look down on individual women who choose to straighten, and i do look forward to a time when it is 'just hair' and is not loaded with as much political/cultural significance. i understand that for some individuals that day may have already come, and in many ways it has arrived for me as well. but i don't think it's arrived in general in the larger community; i think hair is still a huge significator in african-american culture and we can't ignore the fact that it conveys meaning - even if it's not the meaning we may have intended or the one that resonates with us inside.


(example) michelle obama, our next first lady, ;) wears her hair in a demure, conservative, relaxed/straightened style not at all unlike that worn by condoleeza rice. when the new yorker did their [awkward/unfunny, imho - and does anyone want to talk about that?] 'satire' cover of the obamas the other week, what was the main change they made to their depiction of michelle? they gave her a huge, fluffy, kinky 'fro.' this is a hair style that i happily, sexily, lightheartedly rock on many occasions and guess what? i'm not a gun-toting militant radical who burns the american flag. but together with the other imagery that they selected for that cover, they selected kinky hair BECAUSE of the meaning it conveys. not because it is 'just hair.'

yknow?



on fubu and 'urban' fashion - meh. i am ITA with the PP who said she doesn't pay money for the right to advertise for others. i have never been into labels and i don't think a name brand is a valid substitution for style or quality.


why am i rambling so long? oh i dunno. it's late. hee hee!

[Draupadi]

[QUOTE]the 'elite' thing - innnteresting. even though i hadnt known the class/demographics of the MDC board in particular, it is easy to understand how a board dedicated to self-educating about alternative childrearing practices would be a group full of people with a little more access to information, a little more health care choice, a little more free time than perhaps is normal in our society.

ITA with this. I tend to think that this board (and not just the WOC board but MDC as a whole) is populated with women who are mostly highly educated and probably mid to higher income. I often marvel at the fact that some mamas on this board have posts in the 10s of thousands!



that being said, i do consider myself an elite in that i am a member of a small sub-group: i'm a proud 'black nerd' (DH and i used to screenprint t-shirts that said 'BLACK NERDS UNITE' :lol) i consider myself VERY lucky to have many (like, half a dozen, LOL) really close, similarly cynical, outside-the-mainstream, nerdy black friends. .

In HS, my friends and I were outside the box and yes, we were nerds (although I don't think we would have admitted it back then). Going to a math and science high school and liking things like Star Trek helped. :wink





the hair thing - that hair typing thing is a mess ;) but it does come in handy for descriptive purposes. politically, i do believe that when black women - or women of any race with curly/kinky hair - straighten our hair, we are helping do our tiny part to perpetuate a eurocentric patriarchal beauty standard; and are participating in the devaluation of our racial type by treating our natural characteristics as some sort of 'problem' in need of fixing.

What you said.

i don't rant or prostheletize about it, or look down on individual women who choose to straighten, and i do look forward to a time when it is 'just hair' and is not loaded with as much political/cultural significance. i understand that for some individuals that day may have already come, and in many ways it has arrived for me as well. but i don't think it's arrived in general in the larger community; i think hair is still a huge significator in african-american culture and we can't ignore the fact that it conveys meaning - even if it's not the meaning we may have intended or the one that resonates with us inside.

I think it's unfortunate. It will be a long time before our hair is not an issue or a political discussion every time we bring it up.


(example) michelle obama, our next first lady, ;) wears her hair in a demure, conservative, relaxed/straightened style not at all unlike that worn by condoleeza rice. when the new yorker did their [awkward/unfunny, imho - and does anyone want to talk about that?] 'satire' cover of the obamas the other week, what was the main change they made to their depiction of michelle? they gave her a huge, fluffy, kinky 'fro.' this is a hair style that i happily, sexily, lightheartedly rock on many occasions and guess what? i'm not a gun-toting militant radical who burns the american flag. but together with the other imagery that they selected for that cover, they selected kinky hair BECAUSE of the meaning it conveys. not because it is 'just hair.'

yknow?

If Michelle Obama was rockin' a natural, I doubt Barack Obama would be where he is now. Her hair (to a lot of folks- not saying it's right or wrong) is reminiscent of Jackie Onassis. I mean, not only is Michelle Obama good looking, poised and smart (all scary traits for a black woman to have to some people!), but she's got a Jackie O thing going for her. Obama has a Kennedy aura too. A natural would scare the pants off of folks. Straight is mainstream...and acceptable.

[purplegirl]

well, i really *really* have enjoyed catching up, and would like to say a welcome to all the new members and a hello to all the vets from a sporadic lurker!

so many things are interesting about what's been being said recently. (grammar police?) ...

the 'elite' thing - innnteresting. even though i hadnt known the class/demographics of the MDC board in particular, it is easy to understand how a board dedicated to self-educating about alternative childrearing practices would be a group full of people with a little more access to information, a little more health care choice, a little more free time than perhaps is normal in our society.

i was raised semi-granola (panafrican parents, natural hair, food co-op/health food store, semi-veg, home made clothes & toys, no/limited TV, emphasis on education, etc) in the 1980s and my parents had hardly any money. so, although i have always felt outside of the mainstream of african-american culture, i never thought of myself as 'elite' - just 'odd.'

that being said, i do consider myself an elite in that i am a member of a small sub-group: i'm a proud 'black nerd' (DH and i used to screenprint t-shirts that said 'BLACK NERDS UNITE' :lol) i consider myself VERY lucky to have many (like, half a dozen, LOL) really close, similarly cynical, outside-the-mainstream, nerdy black friends. to me who grew up a loner, this seems like a veritable BLOCK PARTY. in addition, my circle is full of smart and sexy black men who love and support (and marry!) their partners, support their families, homeschool and/or have a huge part in the daily rearing of their children, etc.

i am also firmly aware that elitism in the black community often means other things; although both of my parents are black, my family is cross-cultural in many ways. my mom's family is east coast traditional/historical black elite: the whole light skin, straight hair, professional/middle class, martha's vineyard, jack & jill type situation. my father's family is east coast classic: mid century migration from the rural south, blue collar roots. my siblings and i are among the lightest cousins on my father's side of the family, and the darkest cousins on my mother's side. quite grounding, IMHO.



the hair thing - that hair typing thing is a mess ;) but it does come in handy for descriptive purposes. politically, i do believe that when black women - or women of any race with curly/kinky hair - straighten our hair, we are helping do our tiny part to perpetuate a eurocentric patriarchal beauty standard; and are participating in the devaluation of our racial type by treating our natural characteristics as some sort of 'problem' in need of fixing.

personally, i have relaxed my hair for maybe 6 years out of my life, mainly during high school, and during that time i was magically transformed from 'that nappyheaded girl' to 'that lightskinned girl.' so i've seen the hair thing from both sides; choosing to straighten after being natural, and choosing to be natural after straightening. for the past 14 years that i've worn a fro, locks, and a fro again, it's become less and less dramatic a situation for me in my daily life. i don't rant or prostheletize about it, or look down on individual women who choose to straighten, and i do look forward to a time when it is 'just hair' and is not loaded with as much political/cultural significance. i understand that for some individuals that day may have already come, and in many ways it has arrived for me as well. but i don't think it's arrived in general in the larger community; i think hair is still a huge significator in african-american culture and we can't ignore the fact that it conveys meaning - even if it's not the meaning we may have intended or the one that resonates with us inside.


(example) michelle obama, our next first lady, ;) wears her hair in a demure, conservative, relaxed/straightened style not at all unlike that worn by condoleeza rice. when the new yorker did their [awkward/unfunny, imho - and does anyone want to talk about that?] 'satire' cover of the obamas the other week, what was the main change they made to their depiction of michelle? they gave her a huge, fluffy, kinky 'fro.' this is a hair style that i happily, sexily, lightheartedly rock on many occasions and guess what? i'm not a gun-toting militant radical who burns the american flag. but together with the other imagery that they selected for that cover, they selected kinky hair BECAUSE of the meaning it conveys. not because it is 'just hair.'

yknow?



on fubu and 'urban' fashion - meh. i am ITA with the PP who said she doesn't pay money for the right to advertise for others. i have never been into labels and i don't think a name brand is a valid substitution for style or quality.


why am i rambling so long? oh i dunno. it's late. hee hee!

Omg, you sound a lot like me in many ways. More later, I am in need of coffee!

[AndrewsMother]

A hair question for those that are natural and WOTH:

Do you straighten your hair for job interviews?

[shayinme]

A hair question for those that are natural and WOTH:

Do you straighten your hair for job interviews?

Nope. To be honest even before I loced 4 years ago I would just wear my hair the way I always wore it. My thoughts are that would I want to work at a place that had issues with my hair, probably not. Plus living in the whitest state in America, it would seem silly for me to straighten my hair anyway. I have been natural 8-9 years and aside from the year I stayed home after dd was born, I have always worked since being natural. I have never had issues with my hair, to be honest I sometimes wish folks would not comment on my hair, my hair is mid-back length and always folks around here comment, generally someone who has never seen locs and thinks they are braids. LOL

Oyinmama, reading about your family history reminds me of how diverse the experience can be within a Black family and how elistism plays out in Black families. Like you my folks were a mixed family, my Dad straight from the south, son of sharecroppers but my Mom's folks were racially mixed Black/Mexican and had a few coins and property. It was interesting to say the least anytime the whole family came together. My folks definitely had color issues since my Mom was the darkest person in her family, to the point her Dad's family questioned if she was really his :(. My great-Grandma is fair with blue eyes, most of that side is Lena Horne color.. my Mom though was not and neither are me or my brother.

Its interesting to me that so many of the WOC who come here to MDC are a bit at times outside the box of how some would decribe Blackness yet we are still very much Black. I actually find that at a lot of Black boards I frequent, sistas who were the nerds in HS, or like me listened to white music back in the mid 80's.. I often wonder where ya'll were when I was a kid. :D

Shay

[purplegirl]

Nope. To be honest even before I loced 4 years ago I would just wear my hair the way I always wore it. My thoughts are that would I want to work at a place that had issues with my hair, probably not. Plus living in the whitest state in America, it would seem silly for me to straighten my hair anyway. I have been natural 8-9 years and aside from the year I stayed home after dd was born, I have always worked since being natural. I have never had issues with my hair, to be honest I sometimes wish folks would not comment on my hair, my hair is mid-back length and always folks around here comment, generally someone who has never seen locs and thinks they are braids. LOL

Oyinmama, reading about your family history reminds me of how diverse the experience can be within a Black family and how elistism plays out in Black families. Like you my folks were a mixed family, my Dad straight from the south, son of sharecroppers but my Mom's folks were racially mixed Black/Mexican and had a few coins and property. It was interesting to say the least anytime the whole family came together. My folks definitely had color issues since my Mom was the darkest person in her family, to the point her Dad's family questioned if she was really his :(. My great-Grandma is fair with blue eyes, most of that side is Lena Horne color.. my Mom though was not and neither are me or my brother.

Its interesting to me that so many of the WOC who come here to MDC are a bit at times outside the box of how some would decribe Blackness yet we are still very much Black. I actually find that at a lot of Black boards I frequent, sistas who were the nerds in HS, or like me listened to white music back in the mid 80's.. I often wonder where ya'll were when I was a kid. :D

Shay


I know, right? It would have made my teen years a lot easier and perhaps more fun. *sigh*

I definitely do not change my hair when I was going on job interviews, etc. My thing was, accept me for who I am or spare me the trouble and don't hire me.

[Draupadi]

A hair question for those that are natural and WOTH:

Do you straighten your hair for job interviews?

No, although I do wear it back in a bun when I want to look conservative. I don't have locs, by the way.

[Draupadi]

I actually find that at a lot of Black boards I frequent, sistas who were the nerds in HS, or like me listened to white music back in the mid 80's.. I often wonder where ya'll were when I was a kid. :D

Shay

We were home listening to Duran Duran, reading sci fi novels.:D
Anyway, I guess my experience was a little different considering my mother is Korean, but on my father's side of the family, we come for a large family of very proud black folks. As in most black families, my aunts and uncles ran the gamut in terms of color (my grandmother was dark and my grandfather was almost light enough to pass). I never really noticed any colorism in my family growing up, although I am told that my grandfather, who died when I was about 2, really favored me and made comments about my "olive skin". Anyway,I come from strong, God-fearing, poor black folks who stressed education above everything. I am blessed.