Mothers of Color #3 [Archive] - MotheringDotCommune Forums

Yinsum

10-08-2003, 09:42 AM

Just Curious want some feedback.
dd has turned one :balloons which is great. Then it hit me she really doesn't have a playgroup. I had her brothers in weekly playgroups. It was alot of fun. But that was at least 6 years ago. So I have started to look for a new group of moms and babes. Here's my issue. I have found Mocha Moms that is as the name implies. I love it. For years I loved the other playgroups, although I hated being the only MOC. Which in turn meant my boys were the only children of color. Pardon the expression, but I'm tired of being the fly in the buttermilk.
Parts of me feel like I am going from one extreme to the other. I'm not really sure what I am asking. I pretty much know my decision. I want my children exposed to many different people. Yet I want them to see themselves as part of the equation, not an exception or oddity. I am intersted in whether anyone else has felt this dilema.

jeca

10-08-2003, 10:33 AM

Congradulations on finding a mochamoms group in your area. I think it's wonderful for your daughter to go to a playgroup and see others just like her. Especially if you live in a mostly white area.
I'm also a little jealous. There wasn't a MM group where I just moved from and there isn't one in this area I just moved to. I went online just a few days ago cause I was thinking of starting one in this area and wanted to see if there was enough of an interest but they are not taking new chapters right now and their chats and message room is down.
I say good for you Yinsum and I know exactly how you feel.

blessed2bamommie

10-10-2003, 09:27 AM

I was looking for yall! I saw something a while back! I am one! I'm black. Although if you met me and the folks around me beg to differ! :LOL I guess in the nature v. nurture, the nurture won, as I grew up in the white community. I also was treated terribly in school, so I really didn't go *running* to those in my culture!I feel like we are probably in the minority, (what else is new), here! But, that doesn't bother me, like it may bother some. It seems that in my experience the Apers are white. So, when I break out my AP ways, its gonna be interesting! :LOL I guess I should intro. I'm 29. I found Mothering when I was ttc #1 in WF, (omg, not ttc in WF, :LOL, as i re-read), when I went back to natural and organic food. We got :belly in January and because I've missed :af before, I waited until the next mo. Then a week later we realized our sweet baby, whom I believe; but, was not medically confirmed was a boy, Jordan, was gone. After some hard months, we are stepping back into the ttc waters. I am hopeful and a bit nervous. OH! I've been married since '98. I used to teach public school music, and I got depressed and left after four years, and felt the Lord calling me to music ministry. I am the worship leader and I head up the music ministry, at my mostly black, church, which has been interesting, since my musical style and background isn't gospel. They think I'm a freak, I'm sure! Can I ask yall with my texture hair a question? What are yall doing with your hair? I stopped perming; and pressed and then did braids this summer for surgery and *loved the freedom, and kept them until 2 weeks ago. I went back to pressing. My hair got *so big Sunday! And by Sunday night I had a fro! (fine for some; but, not my personality! it was *bad) I told my beautician, and she suggested a no (with actually less) lye and do it twice a year, and press the rest. Dreds or what are the short ones twists? are not my personality. Anyway, I'm not *thrilled about perming; but, its *less lye...and not a many times) What about yall?

TIA! :D

jeca

10-10-2003, 10:09 AM

Welcome Wannabmommie!

You trying to make me cry with that introduction, I'm sensitive you know. I know it may be hard but try not to stress about TTC, just have fun trying.
You've missed about 30 other pages discussing hair, introductions, etc. I wear my hair naturally curly as do a few other mamas on this thread. No chemicals(LYE yuck!). If you want you can do a search to catch up this particular thread has been slow but I have something interesting to discuss.....

I was taking my mother somewhere last night and we stopped at this grocery store in a wel,l poorer kind of run down part of town. Mostly blacks and hispanics live there. You know how all stores have those little vending machines that kids put a quarter in and get some kind of prize. My son is obsessed with these machines and their cheap prizes BTW. So my mother goes over to one to pick him out a "prize" (DS not with us BTW). I walk over and just stare! The prizes in these particular machines are cheap little silver looking necklaces with charms attached to them. The charms are guns! pistols, machine guns, in all lenghts and sizes one of them even had a pistol with two grenades attached to them!
Necklaces with guns attached to them targeted at children!WTF! What kids like these machines, ages 4-like8 or something like that right? So I go into my little tirade on how inapriorate that is and how stupid these people are for putting it here(I'm guessing the manager okay'd it to be there, right?)My mother rushes me out of the store. I continue all the way to the house about it.
Well later my son comes around the corned with what around his neck? you guys it my ignorent ass mama actually got im one of those things! She says he's just a child and doesn't know thw way I'm looking at it. I asked her why she didn't show it to me at the store. "well you were already bitching about it". Okay my father, and I are telling her the problems we have with it but its' not a big deal to her. Trash is where it's at now.

Here's my problems. Besides just being wrong to target to children period. The grocery store that we normally go to does not have such a machine. I can think of three stores taht we have been to that does not carry that kind of crap in their vending machines. But this one and another one I stopped at(just to see if it did and prove my point) does. These 2 stores in the poorer, blakcer parts of towns have this crap but the better neighborhood stores(white) don't. Can anyone explain this to me?

Yinsum

10-10-2003, 11:13 AM

Welcome wannabmommie. I'm a natural locken mama. Can't imagine going back.

Originally posted by jeca
These 2 stores in the poorer, blakcer parts of towns have this crap but the better neighborhood stores(white) don't. Can anyone explain this to me? [/B]
In a word SYSTEMATIC
Have you ever wandered through those stores. Look at what's offered. My husband went into one to help a senior from our church. Would you believe there is a section for -previously refrozen foods? Sounds like a health violation to me. The grocers many times care about the green not the people.
People would call me paranoid, but I believe there are $ign$ in the eyes of many companies: poverty pays. There are many systems that rely on the longevity of the impoverished conditions of people. Let me name a few- jails ( phone companies because somebody is making collect calls from behind bars), public welfare administrators ( I don't mean those working in the local offices. I'm talking about decision makers), local markets that spike up cost cause people have no options (not mom & pops that really are there to serve the community)
Getting kids used to the "normality" of guns at a young age is no accident. The other problem is many times the parents are in such a state of being that the haven't the time or wearwithal to fight such marketing. They are trying to keep above water. In other neighborhoods, these companies know such toys are insulting and unacceptible. They would'nt even try it.
So Jeca thank you for stepping out of your comfort zone to make a point about how unjust it is. That what we all need to do. WE need to speak for those that may not believe they have a voice, move out of our comfort zone and hear their concerns. We need to be willing to act up because those aren't other people's children, they are our children as well. We don't have to know the children's names to love them as our own.

~member~

11-22-2003, 01:15 AM

Hello!
How is everyone?

blessed2bamommie

11-22-2003, 06:16 AM

I got an email notify. I'm fine, mama. Just reading fertility advisor about my chart, early this Saturday am and checking email since I'm up......:rolleyes; Well, I *could start on that bread I've been trying to make for weeks. This thread hasn't been active. Maybe the mamas have subbed and they will get a notify someone replied. I don't see u on the thread, unless u were in previous ones; but, just in case, I'll say :w.

~member~

11-22-2003, 10:43 AM

Hello! Yes, I have been in previous ones. Just get so busy and have no time for the computer lol! I guess with the holidays approaching, everyone will be super busy again. Hope all is well with everyone!:wave

Kylix

11-27-2003, 10:28 PM

Welcome wannabmommie!!! :)

Wow Jeca and Yinsum. Those were some powerful posts. I really do feel like it's the little things like those that truly make a difference.

Hope everyone is doing well!!

Kylix

Yinsum

11-28-2003, 09:03 AM

Hi Kylix
Survived the family obligatory turkey day. But thats another story. I am thankful for dh and kids though

jeca

11-28-2003, 11:27 AM

Helloa all!
Yes this thread has been down for a while but hopefully it will pick back up soon. I must say I have not been on as much of late since DH is here for his 2 week leave and has been very..um, needy:love
Sad to say that's almost over and he will be going back this week, if I don't break his legs whcih is a thought at the moment. We are taking an overnighter without the kids this weekend so wish us luck!

FroNuff

11-30-2003, 09:38 AM

::::::just popping in::::::::

Jeca, I tried to PM you, but your box is full. :( PM me when you and DH and done boot-knockin' :LOL

chanibell

01-22-2004, 12:09 AM

Hi Ladies,
Im still here. Ive been busy looking for a job etc. Im thinking about starting my own errand service. Any advice? Do you think people would need my services? I would be offering to drop off/pick up prescriptions,library books, dry cleaning, groceries etc. I was thinkin about really targeting the elderly or maybe the SAHM. What are some of the things you wish someone else could do for you if you had money to spare?

eilonwy

01-26-2004, 09:09 PM

:wave Hello! I'm a MOC, very mixed (what do I look like? um, very mixed! :LOL). I have one lovely little boy and one lovely old man to call my own, and am waiting on a second little person who I will find out the sex of next week. (I must know!! :LOL) Just thought I'd say hi. :)

Elzabet

01-26-2004, 10:03 PM

Wow hi I didn't know this thread was here. ~waves~ Hello! My siggy says it all. :fairy

((Letia--did I ever pm you back?))

Kylix

01-26-2004, 10:12 PM

Still here as well....Trying to read everyday. Things are less hectic here, at least periodically.

It's good to see some new faces--Welcome eilonwy and Elzabet!!

I'm hoping things pick up a bit here too...

We need a new topic of conversation. We used to have some great ones....

Kylix

Elzabet

01-26-2004, 10:26 PM

How about books? I'm a bit of a bookworm

Has anyone read The Continuum Concept (http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading.html) by Jean Leidloff? I read TCC when Gabriel was 2 months old and it really pushed me toward AP. I started out with a Babywise book--only excuse being ignorance--but I knew that was wrong the moment Gabriel hit my arms, KWIM?

eilonwy

01-26-2004, 11:03 PM

I've read Babywise (after seeing threads about it here-- i had to know what the fuss was about!) but I've never read TCC. I think I'll put it on my library list for two weeks from now. Right now I've got Beloved (Toni Morrison, because I am ashamed to say I haven't read all of her books :shake), The Well-Trained Mind (saw an interesting thread about it on the Homeschooling forum), In His Image (a book about cloning Jesus. May turn out to be sacreligious to Christian sorts, but it looked interesting and I've seen the plot on Outer Limits so I had to get it) and some other things which have been returned (mostly).

Speaking of books.. I have a strange question/thought and I bet this is the place to post it. Last week, while I was at the library with Elibean, I decided to pick up some Reading Rainbow videos. I loved RR as a kid, and some of the stories really made an impression on me. So I picked up two. I also picked up a childrens book that looked really cute, and a CD for the drive to the IL's.

When I got home, I realized that both of the RR episodes were ones about African folktales (Bringing the Rain to Kapiti Plain and Mufaro's Beautiful Daughters), the children's book was an African folktale (can't remember the title, it's been returned), and the CD was, you guessed it, African music. It just struck me as odd, because it was totally not deliberate. :LOL I had to wonder if the new baby I'm carrying was trying to send a message (this is the first time I've made it to the library since I got pregnant.. maybe the second). If so, what would it be? That I'd better get the pick ready because I'm having a nappy headed little girl? Or that this child will be so pale that I'll have to work extra hard to teach them that they are, in fact, not white?

I'm really wondering about this.. I feel like there's some message here that I'm just not getting. :shrug Any ideas?

jeca

01-29-2004, 11:26 AM

Welcome one, welcome all!!!!

A brief update on me. I am moving back home soon:balloons
I am so glad to be leaving. I came to stay with my mom and dad when DH got orders to go to Iraq because I was VERY pregnant at the time and he didn't want me in colorado by myself as all my friends had left. SO his 6 month tour turned into a year as you all know. I have been a year with these poeple and so close to losing my scattered brain. I'm sooooready to leave. Anyway I called the base and they have housing for me but not until the 11th of march. she's going to try to get me in sooner so pray for me if you pray or send me good vibes if that's your bag too!
I love my folks but we are just NOT on the same level as some of you may remember from previous posts. NOt to mention my brothers bad ass project raised ghetto fabulous kids currently living here also. And what a BAD influence they have been. They are the epitomy of every bad black project street gang type movie you may have seen with the bad ass kids cussing and booty shaking in it. That is them. I honestly didn't know that children were actually like that. They are giving my mama a run for her money, I feel bad for her for real.Okay a vent, sorry to get OT. That little boy at the ripe old age of 2, told me thank you bitch just the other day.
Anyway leaving and happy.

Books! I love to read! I have since I first learned how. I'm more into fanatsy, sci fi, horror type deals(love dean koontz) Or self healp books.Also ethnic fables and tales I adore. I've never had a problem TTC so I've never picked up the continium concept.I've never picked up babywise either but when I heard about it I visited the website, after that I knew I couldn't read the book. They advocate starting at 9 months old spanking with switches, goodness, sick, sick, sick!
I am currently finishing a book on feng shui. The furniture we had we've had for the last 8 years. It was a wedding present from my dad. IT's definitly time for a change and somethimg more my taste so I am going to give feng shui a try and see if it helps craete a more positive atmoasphere. My folks think that's so nutty of me but I've always been into crystals and gems and such so why not give it a try, certainly can't hurt anything.

eilonwy~ I also believe in the forces of unkown. Maybe it's something as simple as picking out an afican name. Or something as complex as intergrating more african roots into your life. Can't say.
My own children are confused. We've had LOTS of talks with DS about color. He believes his baby sister is white simply cause she's fair skinned and his little sister is puertorican because she doesn't look like the like"other black girls"UGH! He's a confused little mess.
And how about this there are only 2 little black girls in his class so he come shome calling some little white girl his girlfriend.:LOL
I'm not touching taht until he gtes older. my brotehr went through the same phase when he was little. So those of you with mixed heritage, does it matter who they date?

Chanibell!! Go for it girl. Depending on where you live I knwo there's a need for that type of service. I would definitly use it if I could. From drycleaning to picking up a few groceries. GOing to teh post office for sure!! I think it's great and you should defintly go for it.

So, I'm going to ask again. Will it matter to you who your DC date?

eilonwy

01-29-2004, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by jeca
And how about this there are only 2 little black girls in his class so he come shome calling some little white girl his girlfriend.:LOL
I'm not touching taht until he gtes older. my brotehr went through the same phase when he was little. So those of you with mixed heritage, does it matter who they date?

:LOL Not to me. :) My mother has four grandchildren: my nieces' father is black, my nephew's mother is very pale-skinned but with jet black hair and very dark eyes (she's half Mexican), and my husband is dark skinned-- for a German. :LOL My brother divorced his wife and is now seeing a black woman. So all of her grandchildren look different, each has their own skin color, hair color and hair texture; three of them have very dark brown eyes, and my son has blue eyes (which may or may not be changing to green-- but my nieces and nephew never had blue eyes at all).

I'm all in favor of more mixing. If I tell my son he can't date girls (or boys, for that matter) unless they look like him, he's going to end up dating white people or a very light-skinned mixed person. Nothing wrong with that, but what if Bean #2 looks more AA? Do I say then to his sister "You can date black people, but your brother can't"? It starts to get complicated when the kids don't look alike. No matter who they bring home, they're going to have a mixed race relationship; I look forward to seeing what my grandchildren look like :).

Oh, and my niece (who has medium skin for a black girl and the Sideshow Bob hair I mentioned on another thread) came home with a white boyfriend last year. She was in love with him ("That's my darkest secret!" she told me in a fervent whisper, serious as only a five-year-old can be) and he adored her. So did his mother.

jeca

01-29-2004, 03:16 PM

I actually have no feelings on the matter one way or another at this particular point. That's why I said I'm not touching it until he gets older. I need to see if he will ONLY like a particular color, which at this point he does, or if he broadens a bit to include his darker classmates. That's my main thing. I don't want him to EXCLUDE blacks as his little girlfrinds. So far every little girl he "likes" is white or white hispanic(KWIM?). And yes, that is a problem with me, but again. NOt touching until he gets older.

Elzabet

01-29-2004, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by jeca

Books! I love to read! I have since I first learned how. I'm more into fanatsy, sci fi, horror type deals(love dean koontz) Or self healp books. Also ethnic fables and tales I adore. I've never had a problem TTC so I've never picked up the continium concept.I've never picked up babywise either but when I heard about it I visited the website, after that I knew I couldn't read the book.

So those of you with mixed heritage, does it matter who they date?

So, I'm going to ask again. Will it matter to you who your DC date?

And here I thought I was the only black girl who liked sci-fi and fantasy!! Have you read Octavia Butler? She's a wonderful writer. And The Continuum Concept (TCC) isn't about TCC (LOL--I never noticed that before), it was written as an anthropological study of a tribe in South American and how they raise their children. Check out the site (http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading.html). I've been raising Gabriel in a modified CC style (mix AP and CC).

As for who Gabriel will date, it's up to him. My dh is white and when we met he was dating an Asian girl and I was seeing a mixed guy. All our friends are mixed--Asian and something or black and something or white and something, our church is so multicultural...It's really just not that important to us. We want him to find a nice girl who shares his interests and values and makes him happy.

jeca

01-30-2004, 07:50 AM

Oh, now I feel like duh!. I just ASSummed it was about trying to concieve because it was on the ISO list of so many mamas here who were, well trying to concieve. It sounds much more interesting now.

eilonwy

01-30-2004, 01:07 PM

:LOL I like sci-fi/fantasy too. I grew up on the stuff :). I'm also a gamer geek. :LOL I've only met two other gamers IRL who weren't white (but that's not saying much-- I've only met a dozen or so out of hundreds who weren't male :LOL). One was mixed and about the same skin color as me (middle/light end of the white people make-up spectrum) and the other was black. Both guys, and nice people. :LOL I've never met any girls, though. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only non-white female gamer in the world.. then I think, no, I'm probably just the only one in PA. :LOL

jeca

01-30-2004, 01:39 PM

I do like sci fi and fanasy but I'm not a gamer. Never even tried to much to do in high school. I always had a job(in germany you can work at 13) all through high school plus the EX activites(dance squad, FBLA, prom commite, literary society, and an orchette debutante, yeah, I finished high school in the south). Not whole buch of free, free time. I think that's wrong with alot of youth now like my sister. She doesn't do anything and has waaay too much time on her hands, yet still she's managing to pull in mostly D's. I just don't get it.

Elzabet

01-30-2004, 01:46 PM

Not much of a gamer unless you count written/message board rp. At one time I had 23 different versions of myself running around out there. LOL! I want to start a mb-rp based on Octavia Butler's works (Xenogenesis or Patternmaster series) but WHEN would I find the time???

pixiemama

02-01-2004, 02:11 AM

Hey mamas! No idea why I'm still up, but I am. We are all doing well. I've been busy and as you all know, the first thing that usually goes is pc time, so I have hardly been here. Hope to check in semi regularily. :D

Kylix

02-01-2004, 12:37 PM

Hey guys,

Interesting topics going on here.

I like scifi and fantasy okay. I say okay because just about everyone I know that really likes the two are OBSESSED. It's all the read, watch, etc. And I'm not that exclusive nor that fanatic about it. I read HP and LOTR and I've seen those movies and I have watched Farscape. LOL... I'm generalizing a bit, I know.

I also am not a big gamer....

As for your question jeca, that's the question I wanted to address. :D

I too wouldn't jut my nose in my children's affairs. I wouldn't oppose who they dated, man or woman, black, white, red, yellow....I just want them to be happy. Interracial and homosexual relationships don't bother me.
However, that being said....I do get tired of the stereotype (?) that the only successful black families are those that are bi or multiracial...It's nice to see an all black family (I know everyone is mixed) doing well..ya know what I"m getting at?

Even still, I wouldn't care who my children wanted to date or marry. I would never object to their mates based on race or sex.

What about homosexual relationships? What is everyone's opinion on that for their kids?

Kylix

pixiemama

02-01-2004, 12:50 PM

Jeca, no, it doesn't matter to me who my children date. Of course, I would prefer them to date and marry someone aa due to the sad state of the black family right now. I think the percentage of married aa couples is like 25% now or something versus 60-70% 30 or so years ago. That's pretty low. No offense to anyone, but I am definitely pro-marriage. However, my preference for wanting them to have an aa partner is not as strong for me wanting someone who genuinely respects, loves them, and treats them fairly as an equal partner regardless of that person's race or gender. So to answer your question Kylix, it won't matter to me if my kids are homosexual...as long as I get my grandchildren, I don't care. :LOL

jeca

02-01-2004, 01:26 PM

Yes, marriage is highly recomnded! Dh doesn't want them to bring home anyone lighter than our youngest DD. I think it;s a little differant for us since their is no white mix to try to consider. White would be an outside ethnicity, not like those of you who are married into it or are half yourself. YOu have to consider that.I would prefer someone of our own ethnicity(black, hispanic, preferable black)but I am going to remain open and understanding. DH will be another story. I guess the main thing I want them to know is black is beautiful, you know. And don't worry kylix, I know exactly what you mean.

homosexuals. WELL of course it ins't my first option but I would like to think I would be understand. well tat's not true, I know I would be understanding. Dh and I have talked about this before. He agreed that he would love them no less but would not be comfortable watching them, you know, interact in a romantic way,kwim?
I would definitly want some grands in some kind of way also.

eilonwy

02-01-2004, 09:04 PM

That's just it.. for my family, there's really no outside ethnicity at all. :LOL Well, we don't have any hispanics unless you count my nephew, but his mother didn't speak a word of Spanish...

I talked with dh about homosexual relationships. He said "I think that'd be really hard for me, if Eli was gay." I said that I don't care as long as I get my grandchildren; being gay is no reason I shouldn't have them! He laughed and said that was a good point. That was all he was worried about. So long as we get our grandkids, we'll be happy, regardless of weather they're biological or adopted. Bring on the babies! (Well, I'd like to wait at least 20 years before becoming a grandmother... :LOL).

Kylix

02-02-2004, 01:27 AM

Ya know, there's no certainty that you'll get grandkids even if your kids are straight. :LOL I have many friends who never want kids. Of course, I want to be a mother badly (otherwise I wouldn't be here :LOL ) but I don't think there's anything wrong with ppl not wanting to procreate that goes for straight ppl or gay ppl.

I would not have a problem if my gay (or straight) child didn't want a life long partner or have kids. As I see it now, I dont think I would be anymore put off if I saw my homosexual child making out with his/her partner than if I saw my heterosexual child doing so (it would be hard for me to see my children as sexual and grown up period, I think).

I wouldn't want to put heterosexual qualifications on my homosexual children's lives. Asking them not to hold hands or kiss their partner, to act "straight" (i.e. change their dress habits or talk differently) or have children just seems disrespectful of their lifestyle to me.

Kylix

chanibell

02-02-2004, 03:08 AM

HI Ladies,
I scan the internet from time to time looking at other forums and debates from "Blacks in Japan" really cool forum BTW to "Adoption Forums" but recently I somehow was linked to a anti hate page and then found myself on a White Pride page. So I joined it. I think it was morbid curiosity. Im not posting, I just was curious to see what white Pride folk talk about and where they live and what they do. Of course Ive never met any ( no white person would come up to me and say," Hello Im a White Power Person"). But I got curious and a little shocked to find out that some are nurses,teachers,midwives etc and I guess I was just taken aback at how these people intergrate themselves in everyday life and yet you wouldnt know it. They post pictures of themselves and they look like average run of the mill people soccer moms,sahm's and writers. Its really scarey. How could these people esp the women be teaching their children hate? Thats my question.

On a less serious note, my husband makes video games for a living,but Im not a gamer. I play a few games though and Im probably one of the only black women that show up at comic conventions ( with my husband) as well as sci fi book signings. My fav. books are the Dune series. Great reads.

As for dating outside ons race...who cares. My husband is Puerto rican and my mom is white. So as long as my kids would be happy I wouldnt care!

jeca

02-02-2004, 10:12 PM

well technically everyone is mixed up. I'm thinking of my immediatly family and what we actually claim. that's something that kind of irks me me when a person's" great greatgrandfather is irish or their aunt is chinese and dutch and the oh so favorite my great grandma's indian" and at thr bottem of their list is african ameican or black. DH doesn't say he's black, taino indian and spanish(which is what makes a darker skinned puertorican I'm told) he's just puertorican, kwim. Of course those of you who are immediatly mixed(mother, father are non AA) I'm not speaking of you just those who are oh so obviously black or at least in my eyes. I'm probably opening mouth inserting foot as my own heritage is often questioned, but I usually just look at them and say" don't I look black to you?" If they want to know further I just let them know I on't claim any thing further. Is that wrong?

As far as grandkids go, we have 3 babies thus far the chances of us getting some grands are in our favor. perhaps I'm selfish in the aspect as I do expect at least one. And I do want some biological ones. Adoption id great, no problem but out of three I expect at least one. I could be wrong and it may not happen but there's nothing wrong in saying what you want.:)
we have lots of adopted kids in our family though so I am totally cool with that also.

I understadn why DH woudl be uncomfortable with the intimacies of our gay child.I perfectly understand that.I'm not worried about it until and if we cross that road. I'm just glad he's not dead set against it like some families I know that completly kick their kids out.

Chanibell they show shows about things like that all he time on hbo. It's amazing athe people taht stare you in the face everyday. Remember that thread journey started and her very derogatory comments about blacks, right here on MDC.

Elzabet

02-02-2004, 10:26 PM

I'm about as exotic looking as toast and people feel the need to ask me what I am. I've been tempted to say "a tree" on more than one occassion. :fairy

eilonwy

02-03-2004, 10:12 AM

I have real issues with the "everyone is mixed" attitude, because it makes it seem like those of us who can't pass for anything don't have any issues unique to us, kwim? There are *tons* of issues, and it drives me crazy!! Depending on the light, my hairstyle, the time of day, season of the year and your own personal experiences, you might see me as anything at all. I'm one of those people that most people feel the need to ask. Are you Israeli? Hawaiian? Puerto Rican? Jamaican? Native American? Is your hair naturally that color? How come your baby has blue eyes, what does your husband look like? (Oooh, this one gets me!!) Your eyes are a really interesting color, what do you call that? (Um, they're amber. Very light brown. You don't have to say it like I'm a martian!) Oh, you look so exotic! (Being a sci-fi fan, I associate the word "exotic" inextricably with extra-terrestrials. I am not exotic, I am human. :splat)

And my all time favorite: You look like Mariah Carey. (:scratch :confused: :scratch We have similar hair texture, and our skin tones are about the same value-wise, but other than that, um, no. I look like I *ate* Mariah Carey). I used to get things like this all the time. People would think of someone they saw who's race was unidentifiable and say "You look like her/him". So I'd answer: Yes, Mariah Carey is mixed, and so am I. Because that's what they really want to know. :LOL

One of my sisters has blue eyes, very mixed features, and a huge bubble butt. She has felt, at various times in her life, a need to justify said bubble butt (No, I'm not a white girl!). My other sister has very pale skin and freckles, but she has thicker, much curlier hair than the rest of us and more AA features. She feels like she has to act "blacker" just to get respect in the black community, that if she doesn't people will assume she's trying to "pass" because her skin is so light (Like she made her skin that color herself! Who wants to get a sunburn waiting for the bus?!) Argh, I could go on about this forever! I should probably stop now. :LOL

jeca

02-03-2004, 01:14 PM

Well elinowy you actually stated in a above post that there's no outside ethnicity in your family, which would make you all "mixed up" so how can you have a problem with it? Or do you just have a problem with those who are not obviously mixed claiming to be mixed like I stated in another post? Just trying to clarify what exactly your talking about.I don't claim at all to be mixed so it does botehr me when people assume I am.

And that's my point. While yes technically slave master slept in everyone's bed, some more recent than others. To me you don't have to claim every speck of blood in your background. Maybe experiances like what your speaking about leads people to claim ALL the blood in their heritage so who knows.
I personally like exotic. To me exotic is beautiful and different.

eilonwy

02-05-2004, 08:38 AM

The first one. :LOL It drives me crazy when people who aren't obviously mixed say "Oh, I'm mixed too." Okay, if you want to feel like being black or white or hispanic or indian isn't enough, go ahead and feel that way but honey, at least people don't walk up to you and ask you "what are you, anyway?"

Oh, and I do occasionally ask light (dark?) skinned people if they're mixed, mostly to hear their answers, and the why's. For example, I had a friend in high school who was fairly light skinned and who's mother was the same color I am, with a similar hair texture. She identified herself as black, and so did her mother. She said her mother was always offended if people called her "mixed" or anything else, even though she was. She was a black woman and that was the end of the discussion. I learned why, and I understood.

A friend of my sister has a white mother and an African father (actually born in Africa). She's medium skinned, and still struggles with identity somewhat. Most of the time, she thinks of herself as black but sometimes she finds herself questioning "how black she really is". It's an issue I can relate to, so I like to talk to other people about it to find out how they deal. It's not to offend anyone! It's just an interesting subject for me that took me a long time to come to terms with, because I don't look like I belong anywhere, really. KWIM?

Elzabet

02-05-2004, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by eilonwy
...sometimes she finds herself questioning "how black she really is". It's an issue I can relate to, so I like to talk to other people about it to find out how they deal. It's not to offend anyone! It's just an interesting subject for me that took me a long time to come to terms with, because I don't look like I belong anywhere, really. KWIM?

I look pretty typical (IMO) but I've never "belonged" growing up and especially in high school and at university. In high school I got made fun of because I "acted white" (I still don't know what that means besides I turned in my homework, was in the AP-GT classes and my mom made me pronounce my words correctly and dress a certain way) and at university I got the same treatment. After a while you just retreat to where people actually welcome your presence or into yourself. I did both. I didn't see the need to hang with folk who didn't want me around. Females were the worst. I still have problems "making friends" with women although I've made some headway but it's been very hard for me. This is not to say I don't have any black female friends, because I do, but most of them felt the same way as I did growing up--more accepted among the white kids than the black ones.

Our social circle is currently mostly white and Asian which is fine with me but even though I don't want Gabriel to ever accept a label I want him to also have black friends so I've joined Mocha Moms (http://www.mochamoms.org/) which is a support group for black SAHMs. Since most of the women there are AP oriented, I feel more comfortable than I thought I would and I've made some good friends there. It still took me a month to get up the courage to show up last summer though. Hundred times burned, KWIM?

eilonwy

02-05-2004, 09:26 AM

You know, I've never even heard of Mocha Moms. I just visited their site and it looks very cool but there is no chapter near me at all. :crying

Elzabet

02-05-2004, 09:54 AM

Maybe you can start one? That's how our chapter started--the founder of our chapter heard about it on Oprah and wrote the nationals to find out how to start a chapter I found about it from a flyer in the library. The one in Raleigh started the same way so I don't think it's hard to do--except for finding a place to meet. One of the Montessori schools near us has a place they use for after school programs and we use it for 2 hours a week for a modest fee ($10/mom for the year). I really was interested in it because my extended family kept telling me "black women don't stay at home". Now I know at least 10-15 other mothers that do. :love

FroNuff

02-07-2004, 04:04 AM

Can I jump back into the tribe? I've been gone a bit, but I'm so happy to see the thread active again. :)

I'm a member of Mocha Moms, too, and I really like it. There are a few chapters in my state -- the first one I tried was not for me at all, but the second one is really welcoming. I just gotta get back there, since I haven't gone to a meeting since last summer.

About "belonging"..... <raising hand> Yeah, I never felt part of one group, either, and I'm your standard AA looking woman. Maybe because I went to the "whiter" public school and had mostly white friends, or because when I was young, it wasn't perceived as cool to be intelligent AND black. :rolleyes: I don't know. Maybe I didn't fit because I'm just weird like that. :LOL Shoot, I feel like I don't fit around MDC, and it has very little to do with color. Ok, I'm rambling now.... :D

Eilonwy, how is nursing going with being pregnant? I haven't been back to the tandem nursing tribe thread, but I remember your posts... I hope all is going well for you.

Elzabet

02-07-2004, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by Mom2AliKat
About "belonging"..... <raising hand> Yeah, I never felt part of one group, either, and I'm your standard AA looking woman. Maybe because I went to the "whiter" public school and had mostly white friends, or because when I was young, it wasn't perceived as cool to be intelligent AND black. :rolleyes: I don't know. Maybe I didn't fit because I'm just weird like that. :LOL Shoot, I feel like I don't fit around MDC, and it has very little to do with color. Ok, I'm rambling now.... :D

:D :fairy

jeca

02-07-2004, 10:46 AM

About mochamoms. Last I heard they were not currently accepting new chapters but double check this as it was a few weeks ago. I do visit their website and sadly there is no chapters where I live. When I decided to get off my behind and start one, I learned they were not accepting new chapters at the time until they restructed tehir memberships. I woudl love to start one or at least participate in one.

I would love to me other like minded lack sahms, I'm going to look into it again. alicat hows the babe doing? Have you adjusted yet to having two of them.

Does anyone else hear all teh time that black women don't breastfeed? Ugh, this comment floats around my ears all the time. "I disn't knwo black women breastfed, I never met anyone who does" surely this isn't true. the first woman who nursed in front of me and convinced me to try it was a black woman.

Elzabet

02-07-2004, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by jeca
Does anyone else hear all teh time that black women don't breastfeed? Ugh, this comment floats around my ears all the time. "I disn't knwo black women breastfed, I never met anyone who does" surely this isn't true. the first woman who nursed in front of me and convinced me to try it was a black woman.

That's a new one but I'm not surprised. "Black women don't bf, black women don't stay home, black women don't homeschool" Good grief. I'm so glad I stopped listening to what "black women don't" do. :rolleyes: I like being different!! :love

eilonwy

02-07-2004, 05:42 PM

The nursing is very depressing for me and Eli both, but it's still happening. At this point, there's very little milk and the colostrum hasn't come in yet (though the milk is different.. looks like transitional milk from maybe 2 weeks pp) so basically my breast is a giant pacifier. These days, Eli nurses for a moment or two and then pulls off and asks for milk. :rolleyes: :crying He's getting over it, and asking for more regular food, but I still think he'll forsake it all once the milk is back. Thanks for asking. I'm still really depressed about it, though, and Mike and I have decided that the next baby (should we ever be able to afford one) will be concieved after #2 weans.

About black women and nursing (and feel free to flame me if I'm wrong) I was told that the reason that most black women these days have an aversion to it has to do with them being forced to act as wetnurses during slavery and even afterwards just to make money. IRL, I don't know any black women with young children (I don't know many white women, either, for that matter) so I wouldn't know. I have often wondered why there are never any black women at LLL meetings, though. And not too long ago, I went to a LLL area conference and aside from myself and two Asian women, there was no one of color there at all. It was painfully obvious to me, especially after running into the Asian women. Ladies, where are you?!

jeca

02-07-2004, 09:33 PM

Eilonwy~I hav been where you are now! I nursed yana until about my 7 month of pregnancy when my milk ofically called it quits. The nipple soreness is really what got to me but eventually she just stopped asking. She also would only latch on for a minute or so.
After mari was born she asked to nurse a few times but decided that she didn't like the taste of the milk.I admit to being alittle upset she was about 14 months old when my milk dried up and I did have plan on nursing her until at least 2.Admitly this pregnancy was a bit of an uh oh!

As far as teh slavery theory, well I would hate if that was the reason but I guess I could understand. My great grandmotehr had 11 children and nursed every single one but no one in my fanily has since except me og course. I did get a few of my cousins to try but they all complained that it hurt. I think one of the bad things is that WIC makes formula to readily availible.I know lots of woman with an" why bother with it I can get milk free anyway" type attitude. We didn't qualify for WIC teh second time around( we did with my firstborn) so that was even more encouragment for me anyway to give breastfeeding my all!Now, I'm so glad they did turn us down.

pixiemama

02-08-2004, 12:58 AM

Also BTDT on the nursing. DS weaned when I was 6-7 mos pregnant with DD. As far as black women not nursing, I don't find it to be true. Almost every black woman I know has at least started out nursing their babies. Some even nursed for a year or more. :D I think part of it might be culture though since my family is from the Carribean. Actually, no, I have some AA GFs who extended nursed as well. Apparently we are the "exception" though as we are young, black, and breastfeeding. :rolleyes:

I was moderator of a BF board at one time and read comments about how I was such a role model for being a young, black, nursing AP mama. It was kind of sad to think that we would need BF role models. Then again, I guess everyone needs a BF role model, just some more than others. Speaking of which, wasn't there supposed to be a campaign to promote breastfeeding in the AA community? I think Jada Pinkett Smith and Michael Jordan's mom were going to be in the ads? Apparently, Jordan nursed till he was 3?! :jaw :thumb

If this makes no sense, disregard it, it's 2 am and I am up with DD who is doing what else...nursing!

jeca

02-08-2004, 09:49 AM

But you must admit there is a big diferance in starting out breastfeeding and givig up after a few short weeks or even days. Like I said before I managed to get some of my cousins to try it but it didn't last very long at all. Times like that made me wish I lived closer to my family so I could have been more of a help. And yes we are exceptions to the rule, there are always exceptions you know I don't mind.:)
I actually had a woman(a white woman at that) stop me in walmart one day cause she wanted to see up close that I was really carrying my baby in a sling(hip hammock actually). Apperntly she was a lactation consultant and she was so pleased to see an ap type mama. she commented that I must be breastfeeding and started a conversaion on how I was so not the norm in this town. She's having a really hard time getting AA women and even non AA woman in this town in general to continue BF past a few weeks at best. It so nice to see one. Of course when I told her I wasn't from here just on an extended visit from colorado she figured that explains it. Yes we really do need AA BF role models cause a I stated the breastfeeding arte for AA is really low. Of course that's just here in rinkadink arkansas. I've seen quite a few AA nursing mothers in colorado.

There is a national african american breastfeeding alliance. I used to have their email in my email box I'm going to try to find it again. I contacted her a while back to see hwta I could help do to promote AA brerastfeeding, maybe you mamas can do the same.That would be so great to have more AA ap type mamas in a together type collition out there. I didn't know there was suppose to be advertisements though, what ever happened to them?

pixiemama

02-08-2004, 10:01 AM

Yes, I have heard of the AA breastfeeding alliance. They have a website, but I don't have the link w/ me since I'm not at home. I was doing research for my cousin at the time and came across it.

You know what I have come to realize? Even if I get a mama to nurse her baby for just 1 day, it's better than her nursing for no days IMO. Of course, I would ideally like every mother in the US to nurse for at least 1 year, but in the mean time, I will have to make do with the small differences I can make with future nursing mamas.

I have no idea what happened with the ads, maybe the campaign was pulled? :angry

jeca

02-08-2004, 11:31 AM

yes, I suppose your right some is better than none. I guess I'm just dreaming and would like to see some see some nursing AA toddlers sometimes, then maybe people woudln't look at me so strange. don't mind thought.

So mamas what the one thing you would like to see change in the african american community overall?

FroNuff

02-08-2004, 02:42 PM

I have to be honest, I *want* to feel that some nursing is better than nothing at all, but it would be great to see or hear of other AA moms nursing for an extended period of time. In my family, my cousin and I are the only ones who've nursed, and my cousin only nurses until her kids get teeth -- about 4-5 months tops. My grandmother's view on nursing is suprisingly backwards, and it pretty much annoyed her everytime I would nurse my 16 month old. It freaked her out to see me nurse both girls at the same time. :rolleyes:

I actually had the link to the AA BFing Alliance, but I'm not on the computer where that's stored.

Eilonwy, :hug I was just in your shoes a few months ago, but my milk never dried up and DD wanted to nurse ALL. THE. TIME. It hurt so bad and annoyed me so much. I will say, once Anneliese came, it got SO much better. No more pain and nursing is finally tolerable again.

I have to think about what I'd change about the Black community. What comes to mind initially isn't about how Black folks can change, but non-Blacks perception of Black folks needs to change. There's got to be changes on all sides, not just one side.

pixiemama

02-08-2004, 02:59 PM

Well, at least we've got each other here! Hehe. Honestly, I used to be really high and mighty(can't think of a better term for this right now) about nursing, but now I realize not everyone thinks like me or lives my life. So what can I do? Encourage other mamas. Oh, nursing is going well? Great! It's not going well? Let me set you up with some resources to help you get through the rough time then. All I can do is encourage, show by my example and give information, the mama must take it from there. :hippie

What to change about the Black community? Hmmm...that is such a huge question. For now, I think I'll just go w/ what Tia says about changing others perception about black people.

Have any of you been watching the PBS documentary "America Beyond the Color Line" (http://www.pbs.org/previews/colorline_gates/) hosted by Henry Louis Gates? I only caught about 5 min of it, but am hoping to be able to see the whole thing at some point. My mom ran into him a couple days ago and said "cool documentary". She is such a dork, I swear, hehe.:p :rolleyes:

jeca

02-09-2004, 12:07 PM

I do realize that it's a huge question that I have yet to answer myself. People becoming more aware is a plus but it's hard to change other's perceptions that's why we must on ourselves forst iMO.

hmm, okay that ust seems a bit complex so how about something more simpler. I'm curios about the religious denominations amongst the ranks. IRl most AA I know are christians and usually baptist or methodist. Just want to see what we got here. So what religion if any do you follow. I personally am not a christian although I do believe in GOd and respect those who do as well as all religions at this point. I believe the diety is one in the same in all religions just followed in different paths. I am personally on a spiritual path trying to find which one suits me best.
anyone else?

pixiemama

02-09-2004, 12:42 PM

Yay, a question I can answer! :D I am also searching spiritually. I think I lean towards Universalist Unitarian with some Wiccan tendencies. DH has been a practicing Buddhist for about 15 years or so. Our children will be raised...not sure yet.

Elzabet

02-09-2004, 02:11 PM

I'm a christian (evangelical, charismatic with non-denominational church home) with definite catholic leanings--I pray the rosary have a healthy reverence for Mary and the saints, etc. The teaching of the catholic church that those who have gone before us haven't forgotten us in Heaven, but hear our prayers and pray for us really helps me with my grief for my mom and grandmother. I was raised in a nominally christian home but after I was about 12 or 14 mom quit dragging me to church. I became agnostic and then a practicing wiccan for several years before becoming a christian.

Elzabet

02-09-2004, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by jeca
yes, I suppose your right some is better than none. I guess I'm just dreaming and would like to see some see some nursing AA toddlers sometimes, then maybe people woudln't look at me so strange. don't mind thought.

So mamas what the one thing you would like to see change in the african american community overall?

For the first, I have one friend who is still nursing her son (21 mos) and her daughter (4) didn't wean until nearly 3 and another friend who's son is about 28mos (I think) and still nurses.

As for the 2nd, I think I would like to see more gentle discipline in AA communities and not immediately going for the belt and all the yelling :eek. I refuse to take my son anymore when I get my hair done because my hair dresser is constantly screaming at her kids (7, 3 and almost 2). If I can't find someone to watch him I just put it off. Gentle- or grace-based-discipline definitely.

pixiemama

02-09-2004, 02:20 PM

Wow Beth, quite unusual, going from Christian to Wiccan to Christian again, no? I'm a former Catholic and one thing that I did like about Catholicism was exactly what you wrote above about hearing our prayers and those in Heaven praying for us. I also loved the acknowledgment of many saints which in part seems to separate Catholics from other Christians.

Ack, edited b/c I can't spell. :o

pixiemama

02-09-2004, 02:24 PM

As for the 2nd, I think I would like to see more gentle discipline in AA communities and not immediately going for the belt and all the yelling .

:( Agree with you. I'll never forget when we picked DS up from a friend's house after a night out. She had a son about the same age(he was 2 at the time) and he started crying b/c he fell or something. Anyway, she immediately started to belittle him and said, no lie "are you a girl? are you gay? b/c only little girls and gay people cry like that!" :jaw Our friendship dissolved right then and there, I never called her again. This may also be a little stereotypical, but doesn't it seem like AA women tend to yell at their children more in public too? Hate that.

Elzabet

02-09-2004, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by CkFromBk
Wow Beth, quite unusual, going from Christian to Wiccan to Christian again, no? I'm a former Catholic and one thing that I did like about Catholicism was exactly what you wrote above about hearing our prayers and those in Heavn parying for us. I also loved the acknowledgment of many saints which in part seems to separate Catholics from other Christians.

:) I didn't have any belief at that time and getting up on Sunday morning to go see a fat man get all sweaty as he yelled something at me I could barely understand because his enunciation was HORRID just seemed like a waste of good sleep to me. So I was about as much a christian at that time as I am a car when I stand in the garage for a while, KWIM? :p

My junior and senior years at university and a few years after that were spent as a goddess worshipper which was really educational in some ways. I still haven't lost a reverence for the earth and a feel for the moon's cycles, you know?

I became a Christian (with belief and a desire to please God) after someone said to me that it was hypocritical of me to write off Christianity without knowing what I was writing off. He challenged me to read the Bible for what it said and not what it had been twisted into and to examine what I thought I heard. To not take verses out of context etc. I did that and after about 6 months I was converted. It was a little on the painful side but well worth it. That was about 10 years ago.

My journey into catholicism began by me insulting a friend out of ignorance and in my research I've discovered how lovely catholicism is. I may or may not convert. Right now I'm happy to bloom where I'm planted. :flower

TMI? :hide: :)

jeca

02-09-2004, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by CkFromBk
[Bsaid, no lie "are you a girl? are you gay? b/c only little girls and gay people cry like that!" This may also be a little stereotypical, but doesn't it seem like AA women tend to yell at their children more in public too? Hate that. [/B]

My mother does this all the time to her grandsons. It pisses me off to teh highest level of pisstivity. Anything that has to do with crying is gay or girlish not to mention they can't touch a doll or brush hair or anything like that or they are going to be gay. She's just so umm, for lack of a better word, stupid at times. And talk about the queen of yelling in public but most of the time she would just pinch us or take us to teh bathroom and hit us. According to my family when you don't hit a child(spank, hit whatever) you are "acting white" only white people afterall believe in that time out stuff and such. I have a book called dispiline without spanking or yelling and it has some great pointers. But then again that's just me trying to white and listening to them white wpople try to teach me how to raise black(alright biracial) kids. I'm serious they actually say things like that.

eilonwy

02-09-2004, 04:14 PM

What would I like to see change in AA communities? Well, I'd really like to see less antagonism towards light skinned black people or mixed people who call themselves mixed (instead of "very light black people" or whatever). I've had black friends, but none of them have considered me to be black; they just avoid discussion of race all together. That was in high school... I don't think I've had too many black friends since then. (Okay, let's be honest. I haven't had too many *friends* since then, of any color. :laugh: ). I get strange looks from black people when I go out in public, especially with my (white) husband or with my blue-eyed son. From older black people I often feel a vibe of "Good for you for lightening your children" which I find just as creepy as the feeling I get from younger black people "what, a brotha's not good enough for you?" At any rate.. that's what I'd like to see change. If I am even dark enough to get a say! :laugh:

As to religion: I'm Jewish. I've always been Jewish, and I've studied many other religions and philosophies, and finally settled where I am today. I've managed to reconcile all manner of unlikely things with Judaism like Wicca, Paganism and Bhuddism, and have settled where I'm comfortable. I know I'm a bit strange, but it's been a very long time since someone asked me a spiritual/religious question that I couldn't answer to my own satisfaction.

jeca

02-09-2004, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by CkFromBk
Yay, a question I can answer! :D I am also searching spiritually. I think I lean towards Universalist Unitarian with some Wiccan tendencies.

See, this is why I like coming here! I have never met another black women IRL that woudl at least admit to prcaticing wicca and here I've met 2 in one breath, amazing.
Yeah, as you can probably guess my spiritual path is leading me towards the wiccan way. Although I do have a problem with the celtic based I am trying to find something more along an african, caribean or native american practice, kwim? any suggestions?

Like I said though I do not disbeieve in christianity I have respect for it all. Just searching for the path that suits me best. I have to admit that I have no idea what universal unitarian is. Enlighten me.

BTW I was not raised anything in particular. Riased to believe in GOd is all and shipped off to vacation bible school that's about it.

Elzabet

02-09-2004, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by jeca
My mother does this all the time to her grandsons. It pisses me off to teh highest level of pisstivity. Anything that has to do with crying is gay or girlish not to mention they can't touch a doll or brush hair or anything like that or they are going to be gay. She's just so umm, for lack of a better word, stupid at times. And talk about the queen of yelling in public but most of the time she would just pinch us or take us to teh bathroom and hit us. According to my family when you don't hit a child(spank, hit whatever) you are "acting white" only white people afterall believe in that time out stuff and such. I have a book called dispiline without spanking or yelling and it has some great pointers. But then again that's just me trying to white and listening to them white wpople try to teach me how to raise black(alright biracial) kids. I'm serious they actually say things like that.

Why do we do that to our own children? Why do we call them names (I recall hearing one of my cousins summoned to his mom as "Come here you ugly thing and give me a hug" :( Who wants to hug you after that?) and beat on them and scream at them and then wonder why they treat us poorly?

I think though that it comes down to why does anyone go that route? Because (1) it's easier than trying to be creative in your parenting and (2) lack of knowledge. I've watched women of all ethnicities stand by and let their kids do whatever (oh wow have I ever) and I've seen well disciplined kids of all ethnicities and I've seen kids of all ethnicities get yelled at and spanked in public. I think it stands out to me when an AA mother does it because, well, she's me. My mom used to throw the "white people don't know how to discipline their kids" thing at me too. I think that's just as bad a stereotype as any, KWIM?

Originally posted by eilonwy
What would I like to see change in AA communities? Well, I'd really like to see less antagonism towards light skinned black people or mixed people who call themselves mixed (instead of "very light black people" or whatever). I've had black friends, but none of them have considered me to be black; they just avoid discussion of race all together. That was in high school... I don't think I've had too many black friends since then. (Okay, let's be honest. I haven't had too many *friends* since then, of any color. ). I get strange looks from black people when I go out in public, especially with my (white) husband or with my blue-eyed son. From older black people I often feel a vibe of "Good for you for lightening your children" which I find just as creepy as the feeling I get from younger black people "what, a brotha's not good enough for you?" At any rate.. that's what I'd like to see change. If I am even dark enough to get a say!

What eilonwy said! :thumb

pixiemama

02-10-2004, 11:17 PM

If I am even dark enough to get a say!

eilonwy:No say for you!:LOL J/K What a drag it must be to have to deal with that on a regular basis. Actually my stepdad is white and when we all go out people always look at us like...uh, are you together? And my parents live in nyc. :rolleyes:

jeca: The first things that come to mind are the Yoruba Goddesses Oshun and Oya. (http://www.goddesschronicles.org/Spotlight2.html) I remember doing research on them a long time ago and I know they have some ties to Santeria. As for UU, I think about it sometimes as the "non religious" religion. Here is a blurb about what it is. (http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/weare.html)

elzabet:I think it stands out to me when an AA mother does it because, well, she's me. Now that you've said it, I've realized that's the reason for me too.

mahdokht...
:wave Welcome! You are right on about this...i keep telling her that if you want your children to treat you with respect that you need to respect them I have to tell myself that a lot dealing with a 3 y/o, hehe. :rolleyes:

jeca

02-11-2004, 08:08 AM

Thanks for the links cKfrombk! I noticed some of you decribe it as witchcraft but to me it's more about getting in tume with nature, energy and your deep inner self. My inner self has been very lost and conflicted over the years. I'm really looking for something that doesn't mold itself to the conforms of a "religioun rules all bow down your living wrong" type society. That doesn't dictate every aspect of your life right down to teh clothing you wear. My aunt called this weekend to see if I had any shirts that showed my belly(yeah right with my strtch marks?) or my back that she could borrow as her church was putting on a play to demonstrate how married women should and should not dress. I'm personally one of those "tsk, tskers" as I don't dress as a mama should according to her. Funny no one's every mistaken me for a stripper or anything but fitted sweaters and skirts above your knees aren't something that mamas wear. Oh adn knee boots are for sluts. I just don't think that the church should dictate things like that, unless they are wearing it TO church.
Okay that was OT, I know.

DH's aunt practices santeria.

I don't understan teh problem with telling children please and thank you, isn't that how you teach children manners in teh first place. My family has a problem with it too. They have a more of a fear based form of parenting. I don't know how many times my mother has threatened to "knock my head off " if I didn't do something.

Oh and welcome mahdokt. I looked into muslim back in 96 still have my Koran. I couldn't play the parts that they wanted the females to play though. I did find it fascinating to read though.

jeca

02-11-2004, 01:13 PM

So your saying that muslim women do not have a very submissive role in their religion and family, culture and communities. And yes I am aware that there are other religions with those same ideas, which is why I couldn't follow any of those either. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I was just stating why it did not, could not work for me. Of course if I am wrong in myviews then feel me in, I'm all about getting educated.

jeca

02-11-2004, 11:11 PM

Fighting my nursling.

Yes, I was under the impression that you were taken back and offended by what I said from your reply, By the begining of both actually.

qoute:
Well, actually Jeca, I wasn't saying anything. I was just asking a question and I was hoping for an answer

A tad snarky but I guess I can understand that rereading the start of my statement. Admitidly it has been a while since I read the Koran(96) so I may very well be way off. We also attended "teachings" on it every sunday. From my memory woman were to "bow down" unto her husband and take his word as law. I know a few(use to know more)muslim woman who can not work as it os not their way. Won't leave the house without their DH and one is al;ways completly covered(hijab's?). Now I very well may be thinking of something else and it may not have anything to do with being muslim but with their cultures instead. I will say at this point I honestly don't know. Things that I once knew are very clouded nowadays, has been every since my last born was born. Like I said I'm all about getting educated or reducated as the case may be. Are the things I mentioned just something amonst those families or commen practices amongst muslim families?
Am I just way comfused? LIke what's teh reason again that woman are to sit in back of service and men up front? How does Islam play into this if any or am I just a jumble of dribble at the moment.
Tomarrow when my mind is clearer I can probably be more defined if I am still comfusing you with my ramblings.

eilonwy

02-12-2004, 11:26 AM

Jeca, have you ever seen the show "A Walk in Your Shoes"? It used to run on Noggin, I'm not sure if it's still on. At any rate, there was a girl who spent a week with a Muslim girl and her family, and they talked about the fact that women pray behind the men at Mosque. They told her that it was because it would be inappropriate for young (any!) men to be staring at a woman's backside while they were praying, because then they'd be thinking about something other than Allah (like sex! :LOL).

nappyhair

02-12-2004, 11:53 AM

Hello. You all probably don't remember me, but I'm still here and still of color. Heehee.

It is so good to read all of your posts. Interesting and informative. I'm just here loving the discussion and wanted to come out of lurkdom and say hello.

Can I please use that word "pisstivity"? Too funny.

peace,
nappyhair

jeca

02-12-2004, 12:17 PM

Hmm, yes it is possible I just met a bad bunch. All my lessons in Islam came from the same man. Perhaps he was just teaching as he chose it to be. He completly turned nme off to it and his wife was such a docile follower she would barely speak most of the time. The women(those who were learning or converting) were to spend at least two weekends in his house following her house and learning the ways of an Islam household adn our place in it. Not at all what I would ever try to follow but I'll follow through with anything at least once to get a feel and make up my mind. Made up my mind that I didn't want to do it. It was very wrong of me to just assume it was like that. I know I wouldn't apreciate the stereotype if the situations were reversed. besides that particular group I haven't befriended another bunch that I did in the same manner as them. I know a few now but not as closely as to be involved in their family life.

jeca

02-12-2004, 12:23 PM

Welcome back Nappy Hair! yes, your remembered.

Yeah, you can use my little word I get pushed to the point of pisstivity alot. Thankfully I'm going home soon so I should be more mellowed out then. My diaplogue will definitly change to getting out of the dirty south. Now who was it that laughed at my term "knee baby"?

eilonwy

02-12-2004, 12:28 PM

(nak) um... what is a "knee baby"?

jeca

02-12-2004, 01:15 PM

Knee baby: I have a 6yr old, a 2 yr old and a 10 month old. My 2 yr ols is my knee baby, the middle child. , She's not an arm baby (like the new baby) and she's not in school like my oldest. You rknee baby is usually born either closly behind or in front of another. You know the baby that clings to her mama's skirt while the mama is holding the arm or new baby.
My mother's taught this word. They use to say it alot in her days.

mamasoulsista

02-12-2004, 07:49 PM

hey mamas. I saw this thread and had to get in here and get some wisdom.

I have a 10 1/2 month old son and today was one of those days when he managed to work my LAST nerve and then turned around and nursed while napping for 2 1/2 hours. Now, I'm really trying to be a kind and gentle disciplinarian, and not hit, rage, or shame. But today....I have a headache after a long day and handed off little man as soon as daddy walked in the house.

Owen is teething (4th and 5th tooth) and is probably feeling irritable with the discomfort. When he's frustrated, tired, etc. he bites, hits, kicks, and screams. I thought this happend at 2 years of age not 10 months:scratch

So this is where your wisdom comes in: If you chose not to spank, smack or hit for discipline, please share with me how you correct a 10 month old?? Can you recommend a book?

I'm going to be early!

Joey

pixiemama

02-12-2004, 09:46 PM

Nappy Hair...:wave I remember you!

BTW, jeca,thanks for telling us what a knee baby was b/c I sure didn't know! :scratch

mamasoul...welcome! 10 mos is very young! I don't correct, I redirect. Try to turn his interest somewhere else. Also, make sure that you let him know that you understand his frustruation(try to soothe him) or not feeling well, but it's not polite to hit, kick, etc. There is really not much you can do at that age IMO since they don't understand very much.

My daughter is almost 18 mos old and still too young IMO to understand about "consequences". Sorry, don't have a book rec, but maybe another mama here does.

jeca

02-12-2004, 10:21 PM

welcome mamasoulsista, love the name btw.

I can't be the only one who's ever heard of a knee baby, where ya'll from? Me, born in Alabama(southern roots)but don't ask me much about the place as we left when I was still an arm baby:LOL (okay you gotta know that one) Army brat and lived in ALot of places. Most people just can't guess my accent, that's because it's a very mixed accent. The only thing they can always say is"you just talk so proper":rolleyes: (IE>white)

I am currently reading "without spanking or shouting" not to be confused with"without spanking or spoiling" When I can find it in the morning I will give you the author's name.
I agree with redirect. This works the best with my 2 yr old and 10 month old. They are so easily distracted at this age anyway that it just owrks better. For example when she's whinning for something she can not have, I just offer her something else instead. More than likely she'll take the substitute. I'll post more in the morning, gotta get some sleep now.

Elzabet

02-12-2004, 10:22 PM

eilonwy

02-13-2004, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by mamasoulsista

I have a 10 1/2 month old son and today was one of those days when he managed to work my LAST nerve and then turned around and nursed while napping for 2 1/2 hours. Now, I'm really trying to be a kind and gentle disciplinarian, and not hit, rage, or shame. But today....I have a headache after a long day and handed off little man as soon as daddy walked in the house.

I'm in the "hand him off do daddy as soon as he's home" camp. :LOL Seriously, my son was relatively verbal at 10.5 months, but when he was tired and frustrated and teething/sick/whatever listening to what mamma said was not high on his list of priorities. I would spend days being miserable, getting bitten on my ever so sensitive breasts (I think Eli was 10 months old when I got pregnant, but I can't do basic math anymore..:LOL) and just crying my eyes out, thinking horrible thoughts about my sweet little guy. Then daddy would walk in the door like a knight in shining armor, I'd pass the baby and leave. I always felt a lot better when I got back.

The other thing I tried was really expensive (for me) but well worth it: Rescue Remedy. The first time I did it, I thought something like "is it really worth it to drug my baby?" So I took some myself first and then gave him some. I was cool as a cucumber within a few minutes, and 20 minutes later Eli was sound asleep. Ahhh, relief! That stuff works miracles, I swear! For you (so you can deal) or for the baby (so he can too) or for both of you. If I know it's a problem with me (I'm very tense these days, that's what pregnancy hormones do to me) I take it myself, and if I think it's an issue with him (Monday blues, for example) I give it to him. Sometimes both of us. It's incredible stuff, I can't say enough good things about it. Definately worth every penny!

mamasoulsista

02-13-2004, 02:27 PM

mamas...
thanks for being available for me. Today is a different day. It's sunny and warmer, so little man and I went to the park. He loves the slide and toddler swings! Its so nice to see his teeth in a smile instead of biting my breasts, or screaming in a tantrum.

I have some rescue remedy and never even considered it. It will now grace my kitchen counter next to the Highland Teething tablets!

I think I'm experiencing a bit of the blues due to the lack of sunlight. I'm in the south but growing up in the midwest and having NO sun in the winter, has left me with winter blues syndrome. Thank you GOD for some sun today.

Thanks for the discipline book recommendations. Tonight I have a date with Amazon.com .

Who mentioned that you here the comment that you talk so proper? You just gave me flash backs to my childhood, and I still hear it now living in the Atlanta area. My accent is definitely midwestern, but I still get the proper comment as well. I simply say: piss me off and it'll go away.

Happy Valentines Day to you and your babies.

Joey

eilonwy

02-13-2004, 07:58 PM

The only time people tell me I talk "too proper" is when I'm not talking to white people... It's part of the "she's really light so she thinks she's better than us" syndrome, I think. :rolleyes: I give up! I guess I'll only talk to black women (aside from my sister's friends and my brother's girlfriend) on the internet! :LOL :laugh:

mamasoulsista

02-13-2004, 08:35 PM

That's a shame. There are some sisters who are missing out on a wonderful you.

I know what you mean though about too proper being a judgement. As a brown skinned women, I've been called oreo, zebra, and the always original "she thinks she's white" because of the way I talk. :rolleyes I don't know about any other househoulds but the consequences for speaking slang (as a kid) in my household were severe!

And now I get even more drama from fellow sisters, because my husband is white. I want to reassure everyone who comments negatively on my life choices, that I wake up, live and go to sleep Black EVERY day, and am loved for who I am by the man I chose to marry.

Anyway, I think no matter what race, religion, culture...we all share some of the same fears, frustrations, and joys when it comes to mothering.

Joey

eilonwy

02-13-2004, 09:02 PM

Joey, my dh is a white man too. :laugh: My little boy has blue eyes. I've never really felt like I had a place in the black community (my very first experience with prejudice was from two black children who said "we don't play with white girls"; I was 2 :() or the white one; as light as I am, as light as my hair is, I don't really have white features. I don't really have black features either, I'm just plain mixed. :LOL I don't really look like I belong anywhere... or do I look like I belong everywhere? :wink

mamasoulsista

02-13-2004, 09:24 PM

It'll be interesting to see what this world looks like in 50 years. There will be so many people of color, that our children and grandchildren hopefully won't have to confront some of the challenges we've had to process.

I lived in San Diego prior to moving here, and I really miss the diversity, acceptance, and everything goes spirit of Southern California. I really miss meeting women who seem open to having other female friends and not competitors. you know what I mean?

You're living in the south, right? How is your family accepted where you live?

j-

Elzabet

02-13-2004, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by mamasoulsista
That's a shame. There are some sisters who are missing out on a wonderful you.

I know what you mean though about too proper being a judgement. As a brown skinned women, I've been called oreo, zebra, and the always original "she thinks she's white" because of the way I talk. :rolleyes I don't know about any other househoulds but the consequences for speaking slang (as a kid) in my household were severe!

And now I get even more drama from fellow sisters, because my husband is white. I want to reassure everyone who comments negatively on my life choices, that I wake up, live and go to sleep Black EVERY day, and am loved for who I am by the man I chose to marry.

Anyway, I think no matter what race, religion, culture...we all share some of the same fears, frustrations, and joys when it comes to mothering.

Joey

:jammin Why do we do that to ourselves? Why do we attack our own people for being "different"? I've been called oreo all my life and really have no idea why either. It took ~does math in head and on fingers~ 17 years for me to decide it wasn't that important to me.

But now I have a biracial son and it matters again.

eilonwy

02-13-2004, 11:53 PM

Actually, I live in the northeast. There are lots of families like mine around, but I still get funny looks when I go out with my son. He looks white, until you look at him and realize that he looks just like me. :LOL People figure that because they've never heard my son's name that I made it up and they're nasty to me about it ("Those black people just runnin' letters together trying to make up a name for their baby.") They're much more polite to my husband.. "Oh, that's interesting, where does it come from?" :rolleyes: They make comments about his hair texture like I'm supposed to be jealous somehow (my hair is curly, his is straight) "His hair has just the right amount of wave to it, don't you think?" (Um, there's no wave at all. It just sticks to his head when it gets sweaty, like anyone else's.)

The absolute worst thing is that people assume that I'm not married because I don't wear a ring (allergies!). Even after I've mentioned my husband several times, people ask me if I'm planning to get married and such. :rolleyes:

FroNuff

02-14-2004, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by eilonwy
Actually, I live in the northeast. There are lots of families like mine around, but I still get funny looks when I go out with my son.

Y'know, this is something I don't get. I live in the Northeast also, and there definitely isn't a lack of interracial families, but why on Earth do we get stared at ALL THE DAMN TIME??? :confused: I try to think that people are staring because we're so damn beautiful :rolleyes: :D , but since having children, it's starting to get under my skin. I've had quite a few people just out right ask me what my husband is -- why on Earth would someone care what ethnicity a stranger's husband is? Arrrghhh... :angry

I just noticed something odd that the Black folks in my life do -- let me know if it's just the folks I come in contact with. DD#2 seems to have more Black features and it's one of the first things that I hear comments about -- but only from Black people. "Well, she's got a Black nose!" "She looks just like a Black baby, but really light." "Uh huh, she's got some color in her." Well, duh. :LOL My White MIL has never said, "Gee, Alicia has such a white nose!"

Sorry, I just realized I came in from nowhere and needed a good vent. Feeling much better now. :D

eilonwy

02-14-2004, 09:36 AM

Well, Eli's features are very indistinct, so I don't really get those comments. People think "Oh, he's got a black nose, maybe" but then they look at my husband and realize that it's *his* nose. kwim? My nieces and I also have very indistinct features... if you made my skin darker or lighter no one would flinch. I probably couldn't pass for Asian regardless of my skin color, but I have a brother who certainly could if he was painted the right color. We're just total muts. :laugh:

I'd also like to think they're staring because we're just plain gorgeous! :) [insert "sexy mama" smilie]

So... is anyone fascinated by their mixed baby's lack of booty? :laugh: Seriously, though, I am bootylicious myself, my husband has nossital (think Hank Hill) and our son is taking after him in that department. It just blows my mind, I seriously wonder if it's gonna hurt him to sit down after he starts wearing big boy underwear. :laugh: :LOL :laugh:

mamasoulsista

02-14-2004, 09:57 AM

Being in the Atlanta area I see interracial couples too. BUT they are mostly Black men with white women. There are far fewer Black women with white men like myself. And for some reason, sometimes other Black women (strangers) take the time to comment to us/me on my relationship. I don't understand the double standard
:scratch

When I was pregnant all the nurses at my OB office thought I was some trifling Black woman who got knocked up by a married white man because I didn't wear my wedding band and he did. I'm a massage therapist, so I don't wear it all the time. Not until my pregnancy was considered high risk at the end, and we were in the office together twice a week, did they begin to like us as a couple because they got to know us and see my husbands devotion.

I also find it interesting that I have a hard time making new friends now that I'm way out of college, in my mid thirties, and in an interracial marriage. I'm not Black enough, or I'm a Black woman (must be angry, aggressive, etc.), or I'm AP, breastfeeding, etc. I kind of feel like I'm in between on so many levels and I'm not sure where or how to connect with other women in my area. All of my good friends live in other states, so I get kind of lonely for female frienships here.

Don't get me wrong, I've met some really nice women here but the interactions are very surface and mostly revolve around playgroups. And even still I seem to frequently get left off the Invite list to kids b-day parties, etc. Maybe I'm too sensitive and I'm seeing something that really isn't there?? Maybe I'm too cynical?? Or maybe I"m just observing a reality...I don't know...

j-

P.S. I have no booty!!! But where I lack on the back end, I got way too much up front. His daddy is bootylicious...ex soccer player

Elzabet

02-14-2004, 10:34 AM

His daddy is bootylicious...ex soccer player [/B]

MIne is too. Must be a soccer player thing. :D Maybe I should have Gabriel play soccer???

FroNuff

02-15-2004, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by mamasoulsista
Not until my pregnancy was considered high risk at the end, and we were in the office together twice a week, did they begin to like us as a couple because they got to know us and see my husbands devotion.

See, that is just wrong and makes my blood boil for you. I kinda had that when I was pregnant with DD#1. Thankfully, I had a different OB with DD#2, and he is of Ukrainian descent like DH, so there was some type of connection there.

I'm not Black enough, or I'm a Black woman (must be angry, aggressive, etc.), or I'm AP, breastfeeding, etc. I kind of feel like I'm in between on so many levels and I'm not sure where or how to connect with other women in my area.

That is *exactly* how I feel, as well. :(

eilonwy

02-15-2004, 03:20 PM

Do you really think that playing soccer can help a kid/guy grow a booty?:eek I will certainly encourage my son to play sports (all of my children, really) but now I have even more reason! :laugh:

I have a serious ghetto booty (many have told me it's my "blackest" feature) and I have the giant boobs to match. It's a good thing, I'd probably tilt if I was built any other way. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

mamasoulsista

02-15-2004, 06:01 PM

Well then, maybe I should play soccer since I have no butt. Although I don't think any company makes a nursing bra that straps down huge jugs as well. I'd look like a black Dolly Parton trying to find a soccer ball on the other side of her shelf! :LOL

Little man will definitely be enrolled in some kind of sport. he's got crazy amounts of energy now, and we definitely need an outlet.

j-

Kia74

02-16-2004, 09:53 AM

Hi

I'm Kia, homebirthing, breastfeeding mom to 1yr old Nola. I'm originally from the North East and live in the metro Atlanta area now.

I notice that a few of you are also mothers to multi racial children, as am I. We are very fortunate that we live in a relatively diverse area and will be able to send Nola to a school of our choosing. That combined with the fact that my husband works from home (no funky office politics to contend with :rolleyes:) insulates us from a lot of ignorant people.

My family is very supportive of my parenting decisions, (my mom was a pioneer of sorts by birthing her three children naturally and breastfeeding during the 70's) so I'm always amused when I come across people who are hostile to how I'm raising my child. It just makes me sad for them b/c I know it comes from a place of insecurity about their own choices.

Look forward to getting to know all of you

eilonwy

02-16-2004, 11:37 AM

:w Hi Kia :) You just jumped into a very funny conversation.. :LOL

mamasoulsista

02-16-2004, 02:49 PM

Well here I've been whining about lack of friendship in my area and low and behold Miss Kia lives in the town next to me! :jammin Can't wait to meet you!

There is another mother that I really like who lives very close to me and I think we're going to start an AP group in our town. I went to Attachment Parenting International web page and saw that as a group, you will receive journal writings about AP research. I'm all for it, and I really need to meet other parents in our area for support and friendship.

My husband just walked into the office and saw me writing to you all again. He's laughing because he says I"m hooked. But he's glad that i"ve met like-minded women to share with.

joey

Elzabet

02-16-2004, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by mamasoulsista
My husband just walked into the office and saw me writing to you all again. He's laughing because he says I"m hooked. But he's glad that i"ve met like-minded women to share with.

Sometimes dh's just don't get it but as long as they are happy we are happy that's okay! :fairy

jeca

02-16-2004, 05:39 PM

I guess it was not meant for me to post what I had typed since my wiggling nursling deleted it all.You go out of town for a few days and your out of the loop.

My Dh's not white but since he's not black we get the "what are ya'll mixed with" about our kids too. Especially since they come in three different shades with three differant hair types. And my poor son is darker than all of us( I blame my dad) so he really gets them going. We get confused for everything from Islanders(not too far fetched) to foreigners(arabm or egyptian). When I first met DH he catually though we were from the Islands, poor baby. It just bothers me more when AA do it cause it's like saying that we can't be beautiful unless we're mixed with something and they should already know that our skin and hair comes in all shades from light to dark, kwim?

As far as friends go I don't have any locally. I have only one long distance friend that I keep in touch with and I'm pretty much alone in everything else. It does get prety damn sad and lonely. I mean I have friends at some point but being surrounded by military most of the time they move away or I move away. And I haven't met any AA mothers who feel teh way I do about parenting.I'm really going to make a 100% effort when I get back to colorado to meet osme people! DH doesn't mind me playing on teh interenet as he knows I have no friends
:crying

My grandmother celebrated her 70th birthday this past valentin's day. All of us(almost all) actually managed to get together without any drama. quite amazing really. But of course us "young generation)that would be the third generation) had to sit back and listen to what all we're doing wrong to our kids and how much better things were the way they(our mothers) did things. It was waaay to funny wehn grandma flipped the script and started telling them how she used to do things in her days and what all they were doing wrong,lol.:LOL

Okay, someone please tell me that this is just jacked up! While we were singing happy birthday and teh kids were all sitting on teh stairs' I'm taking pictures and hoenstly I wasn't watching the baby. But apperntly none of the other 12 adults or so were either. Anyway.. my baby is 11 months old and she slid down teh last 3 stairs onto the marbe floor and has a pretty nasty looking carpet burn over her eye. I turned just in time to see her do it. well of course all hell broke loose. I'm irresponsible, I don't pay enough attention to her. "This is teh reason why people call child services on people" , etc,etc. yes I was actually told all of these things. Basically if I keep things up child services will take my children away for negligence. This is the first accident sshe's ever had. No trips to the ER or anyting ever with any of my babies but all the sudden I'm the worst mother. Okay the part that pisses me off. They are going to tell me all this stuff becaase she was climbing the stairs while I wasn't wtaching and fell BUT...... the aunt who beats the hell out of cousins kids( some of you may remeber that) wasn't doing anyting wrong for CPS to be called, wtf? Of course I brought it up while everyone was yelling at me. But thta's was different because she was just disciplining those kids but I'm just being neglectful. She was just trying to keep them in line the best way she could and she was "whuppinh " them on purpose. While Mare got hurt out of simple neglect. Okay, WTF.I can't belive they came down on me like that but that b#$ch could beat a 2 year old with a belt and everyone tell me to stay out of her business. I really, really, HATE these poeple sometimes. Like I didn't feel bad enough that MY baby got hurt, they're always pouring salt into my wounds. Oh yeah, and if I keep doing things the way I do them I'll be crazy before I'm 30 and CPs will have my kids anyway, according to my so called mother.
I want to know what the big differance is! I'm also posting elsewher to make sure I'm not nuts.

mamasoulsista

02-16-2004, 07:28 PM

I hear ya on the family thing. Everyone in my family and in DH's too is waiting for us to realize that we will need to beat our kids in order for them to behave and respect us. I think if I beat my son tomorrow, they'd all be happy. how F'd up is that?

They all start smacking hands at around 9 months when kids get curious. whatever. I'm making my choices and I'm confident that the results will speak for themselves. I don't want to turn on the today show and see my kid as an aggressive, bully or someone who uses guns or violence to solve problems.

Let me also say that kids get into so much even when you're close by and in the room. I just realized that a rocking chair that we have is dangerous. I was 2 feet away from the rocker with my back turned when my 10 1/2 month old stuck his head under the arm rail and above the seat and get stuck. He freaked and started hopping and bit his tongue. So I didn't see it until he screamed. Neglect?? No, he's fast and curious, and I was putting a flashlight on a higher shelf, when he got stuck.

I guess you have to know yourself and what you provide to your children, to ward off the bad vibes from family.

Last tip: When parents/family come to visit. WE buy sage and hang it up to dry during the visit. When the leave, we burn it and walk through the house to get rid of their energy and reclaim our own. It's a very therapeutic ritual for us!:LOL

Joey

jeca

02-16-2004, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by mamasoulsista
ILast tip: When parents/family come to visit. WE buy sage and hang it up to dry during the visit. When the leave, we burn it and walk through the house to get rid of their energy and reclaim our own. It's a very therapeutic ritual for us!:LOL

Joey

I so hear you on that one. I've been reading about feng shui and trying my very best to implament it into my life. I feel like I'm drowning in negativity and can't wait to put some distance between us.
My mother has that same theory on babies. start smacking their hand until they learn not to touch something:rolleyes:

FroNuff

02-17-2004, 03:00 AM

:wave Hi Kia!

:hug Jeca....I hear ya, also, on families having issues. When I was reading your post, I immediately thought, "But what about her cousin who was beating her child? Should that be a call to CPS?" Nice to meet ya, Pot, my name is Kettle. :rolleyes:

I just realized on Sunday night that my family has a LONG way to go with how casually they mention hitting a child. I took Alicia over to my aunt's house where Alicia was just being a normal 16 month old. Several times when A was going after the dog's dish or doing some meddling toddler thing, my aunt said, "I'm gonna get your hiney!" :rolleyes: :angry Then my aunt proceeded to give her those V-Day conversation hearts AFTER I said I don't want her to have candy. :eek :bang Thankfully, Alicia has no clue about candy and I caught this exchange in time, so no candy passed those toddler lips. :D

Ah, then there's my grandmother.... :rolleyes: The woman told me, "I know you don't wanna hear this, Tia, but you're gonna have to slap her hand when she hits the baby." Um, no. Just like I'm gonna have to call her bad whenever she is just being a toddler? WTFever.

Think lovely thoughts, think lovely thoughts.... :D

FroNuff

02-17-2004, 03:07 AM

Ok, completely off topic, but....

Am I the only person who is mildly uncomfortable with a thread devoted to what to call us? :scratch Maybe it's too early and I'm reading way too much into it.

eilonwy

02-17-2004, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by Mom2AliKat
Am I the only person who is mildly uncomfortable with a thread devoted to what to call us? :scratch Maybe it's too early and I'm reading way too much into it.

Um.. did I miss something? :confused:

I often wonder about people who hit babies/toddlers/kids, especially because they seem genuinely surprised when the kids hit them back. :LOL Seriously, my sister's "baby-daddy" (I'm really not sure what else to call him..:o ) used to grab my niece by the arm and smack her butt while yelling "NO HITTING!!!" at her. What kind of message could that possibly send to a child? Only one: "No hitting unless you're bigger/older than the person you're hitting." So the next day, my older niece slaps my younger niece across the face for taking her pencil. I have told her on several occasions that she should not hit her sister, and she needs to remind her parents that they shouldn't hit her either. :shake I often want to strangle my sister, who thinks that flicking a kid on the ear or restraining them or telling them nasty things ("I'm gonna beat you! I'm gonna sell you to the gypsies!") is somehow better than hitting. When I point out that I don't hit Eli or call him names, she says "Your baby is an alien" meaning that he's exceptionally well-behaved. :rolleyes: He isn't, really; he's a normal toddler who does normal toddler things (in most respects), but I firmly believe that kids treat others as well as they are treated, from infancy on up.

Speaking of which, does anyone else get that impression from people, that they think your kids are exceptionally well-behaved when in fact the difference is all in how you treat them? My husband has a huge problem with this at work. For example, he never complains that Eli is a real brat at night and hates to go to sleep. His co-workers with toddlers do, so their assumption is not "maybe we need to evaluate our bedtime rituals" but "Mike's kid is very well behaved". No, we just don't make a big fuss about going to bed, and we all sleep together so Eli always knows he will be safe and comfortable if he wakes up in the middle of the night. Yes, he does sleep through the night, but that's just him; he's very active during the day and rarely takes more than 45 minutes worth of naptime anymore, so when we all pile into bed around 10pm, he snuggles against one of us (or both of us) and goes right to sleep after a round of kisses and love-loves. It's not because he's so mature or amazing, it's because we don't make it a horrendous ordeal and we never have. KWIM?

abimommy

02-17-2004, 07:50 AM

Am I the only person who is mildly uncomfortable with a thread devoted to what to call us? Maybe it's too early and I'm reading way too much into it.

If you have a concern please feel free to pm me. :) Even if it is just to vent or work things out by talking about it.

I am American Indian, things get a bit hectic for me sometimes and I don't always post in here as much as I would like to. But I am around. :wave

jeca

02-17-2004, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by eilonwy
Um.. did I miss something? :confused:

There is a thread in talk amonst ourselves section that is discussing the proper term for blacks or african americans. It doesn't bother me as there was also one about native americans. But there was a comment in there about caucasions becomeing a minority, I think that's a little off, isn't the US population about 85% or so caucasion?

As far as us and hitting. I don't understand why that's always the first form of disipline we(as minorities) think of. In my childrens' short lives we've been on numerous trips on airplanes and teh number one thing we hear(next to how cute they are:D ) is how well behaved they are. One woman was actually commenting on them to another and was saying "she must really be blessed to have such good kids" and the woman replied, " no, that means she's a really good mother who knows ow to do right by them, that's the only way you get that kind of behavior" Oh I felt so good and really wanted to meet this like minded momma but I was easdropping so..
But I have problems now that my ghetto fabulous neice and nephew have been around there's tons I have to undo when I get cack home and I don't even know where to start. If you want to see all your hardwork fly out the window live with my [parents when for a while. Never again. I think I have to hear what all I'm doing wrong on a daily bass, now iy's working for me and I get accoplished what I need but my way is the hard way"you don't ask them to do something, you tell them", "they are children they don't have a chioce in what they eat", "if you don't start spanking them now your gonna lose control of them when they start school""make them eat it" etc, etc...They are well behaved kids to the outside world but according to my mother people only think that cause they haven't lived with them and don't see what they get into. well damn they are kids I don't expect them to sit on the coush and twiddle their thumbs all day. You know what she said to me" If I told you to as a child you would, you'd sit on that couch all say and wouldn't move, that's a well behaved child"...cha, yeah right! that's a miserable child, no wonder I was never smiling on any of my pictures:(

FroNuff

02-17-2004, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by abimommy
If you have a concern please feel free to pm me. :) Even if it is just to vent or work things out by talking about it.

I don't necessarily have a concern about it, just asking a question. I probably shouldn't have asked it since it's just me being overly sensitive.

Sorry!

Kia74

02-17-2004, 10:08 AM

Thanks for the welcome.

I'm so sorry to hear that so many of you have family members who are hostile to the way that you are raising your children.

My Grandma calls me lovingly calls me "an old fashioned mama" not in terms of discipline (or at this point with a 1 yr old, lack there of) but b/c so many of my parenting methods are things that she was raised with. The co sleeping, baby carrying, breastfeeding, homebirthing these are things that she was familar with as a child.

But as a young mother in the 1950's she was taught that modern ways, hospitals, cribs, formula were the best way. She raised her children according to the information that was given at the time.

But times change and both my Grandmothers are vibrant, intelligent women, who read (they love the internet) and realize that their generation was sold a false bill of goods.

When my baby was 3 weeks late, they were my biggest supporters. Telling me again and again, my baby was fine. That in their day people knew how to wait for a baby.

My own mother was an attachment parent without any books, or support system. She carried me everywhere, never allowed me to cry needlessly and in general followed what she felt was right for the two of us. But there was never any doubt who was in charge. It wasn't a regime of fear.

Jeca's post about people commenting on how