Transplanted Mamas, can we have a show of hands?

[RomanGoddess]

Unlike an "expat" mom, who is in a foreign country for a defined time, a transplanted mom has moved to another country for good and adopted it as her home. Any others out there? I am Canadian and DH is French. Our base is in Paris and that is where we will live long term. Our DD is in the French school system. We are, for the time being, expats in Italy.

Do you have your DH's nationality yet (assuming you are hooked up with a local:wink)?

Our your children bicultural or just the local culture?

I think it is much harder for us to teach our children our language then it is for expat moms! My DD's English is great (so far - she is 3.5) but I had to make a huge effort to get it that way.

[sapphos]

subbing to the thread since I'm married to a wonderful French man and we had our daughter in Argentina but have a bit of the reverse now that we're back in the U.S. (ie. we're raising our dd trilingually but in English culture) but eventually will be abroad again.

p.s. I'd be happy to put your blog links in my blog :)

[DariusMom]

I'm American married to a Dutchman, living in Holland for the last 8 years, with a 5 year old bilingual son. We are going to be in the US in Spring 2009, though, for at least six months, but could end up staying indefinitely.

I don't really feel part of the "expat" groups here because I'm married to a local but also because my son goes to the local school (i.e. not international schools), and we're here semi-permenantly. Also, we don't get fabulous subsidies for housing, etc.! :) But I'm only partially part of the regular Dutch parent circles. that has gotten better since DS started school, though. I've also made a bunch of friends who are also married to Dutchies and are here semi-permenantly, which helps.

so glad this forum got started.

[sadiejane08]

Also an American married to a Dutchman. We lived in the US until 2002 and then moved to NL, coming up on six years here in April. Our kids (9 and 7) understand English very well and will speak it if necessary, but Dutch is clearly their native language. Which surprises me for the older one, as he was 3 when we moved and already spoke quite a bit of English.

I feel pretty settled in here and aside from a few minor annoyances (dog poop, small cultural differences re: politeness) never have had any trouble adjusting. It helps that I already spoke Dutch fluently when we moved. Sure, everyone here speaks English, but that still leaves you out in the cold at the schoolyard and such, where the other moms of course speak Dutch among themselves. So I think knowing the language gave me a big leg up in getting settled in. And is probably also why I've never sought out other Americans to befriend.

We have no plans to ever return to the US to live. I'm eventually going to apply for Dutch citizenship, not sure what I'll do with my American citizenship then. I don't see the need for both, and so far there's been no real advantage to being Dutch, so I'll just hang on to the American passport for now.

It's kind of strange having your children grow up a different nationality. There are aspects of my childhood and background they'll just never understand.

[peggyitaly]

:)

Hi everyone!

Never heard of this term but I fit in for sure. Married to a local here in Italy with 2 dd's (5yr and 8 mo).

I've been here for almost 10 years and feel well integrated - my closest friends / circles are Italians - but
I have had some tough times in the past. I've encountered some outrageous prejudice/racism having half
Asian origins and being outside of my homeland country it is more difficult to deal with. At the same time,
I've met some really awesome people. I have to say that I really love Italians for how social they are... I
love having a nice sense of community.

My older dd is bilingual and bicultural, but it has taken a lot of work. we try to return to the USA as often as possible and funds permitting.
I haven't applied for nationality yet... it could make it easier finding a job.

Dariasmom - I understand not completely fitting in under the "expat" category as we don't receive any perks of the expat life. BUT having said this I feel pretty lucky having healthcare without having to pay for it :thumb.

Looking forward to hearing about yo uall

Peggy

[DariusMom]

:)


Dariasmom - I understand not completely fitting in under the "expat" category as we don't receive any perks of the expat life. BUT having said this I feel pretty lucky having healthcare without having to pay for it :thumb.



Absolutely, and that's one hesitation we have about moving back to the US.

We pay about 180 euros a month for healthcare for DH and me and DS is free until he is 18. We actually have an "upgraded" policy for some extras, but the basic policy is much cheaper (and, essentially, free if you're poor). We never worry about this or that being covered. When I compare that to how my friends and family in the States live, even those with insurance, and how much they have to pay, I realize how lucky we are.

[jeannineb]

:wave

I guess that is us too. I am American married to a Norwegian and living permanently in Norway. We have been here just under a year though, so we are still in the adjustment phase I suppose.

At this point our 3 yo dd is bilingual (mama not so much, but I am working on it!). I have not yet attained Norwegian citizenship, and I don't know if I will, it takes several years and I would have to give up my US, as Norway does not allow dual for adults. I can decide that later. I have all the same benefits as a citizen with a permanent residence status, except I cannot vote at the state level, but I can at the local level.

I think my dd is bicultural so far, but that may change I suppose, the longer we are here. She may become more Norwegian than American in the future as she grows up here.

I have a question for any of you...Have you felt like you were giving up some of your identity for your new country? This is something I have experienced and it came completely out of the blue, I never expected feelings like that! I found myself feeling a little resentful at times. I don't know, maybe it's just my MIL forcing Norwegian-ness down my throat! :eyesroll I guess it's part of the process... Other than that, our transition has been pretty smooth. I do love my new adopted country and I am sure I will feel better as time passes.

Nice to meet you all!

[RomanGoddess]

:)
Never heard of this term but I fit in for sure. Married to a local here in Italy with 2 dd's (5yr and 8 mo).


That's because I just made it up.:wink I can't think of a better name for us. "Transplanted" means to move from one soil to another. Isn't that us?:innocent

It's kind of strange having your children grow up a different nationality. There are aspects of my childhood and background they'll just never understand.

It's true. It occurred to me the other day that DD had never tasted peanut butter before, the stuff I gew up on.

[TeaLeaf]

Hello RomanGoddress :)

I was born and raised in France and also lived in Italy for years, but wound up here in the US for good over 20 years ago. I did eventually get naturalized. I'm raising DS bilingual although I understand it will be compartmentalized... oh well. :)

Where in Italy?

[RomanGoddess]

Hello RomanGoddress :)

I was born and raised in France and also lived in Italy for years, but wound up here in the US for good over 20 years ago. I did eventually get naturalized. I'm raising DS bilingual although I understand it will be compartmentalized... oh well. :)

Where in Italy?

In Rome, where else? :p

Are you close to a French lycée? If so, you could always put your DS in the French education system and then he will be 100 percent bilingual. Alternatively, if you are into homeschooling, you could homeschool following the CNED (http://www.cned.fr/scolaire/) curriculum. That way, he will also know how to read and write in French.

[AllisonR]

At this point our 3 yo dd is bilingual (mama not so much, but I am working on it!). I have not yet attained Norwegian citizenship, and I don't know if I will, it takes several years and I would have to give up my US, as Norway does not allow dual for adults.

Same rules here - DS and DD have dual, I have only USA and would have to give it up to become a Danish citizen, which I will not do. However, I am definetly permanent and have no interest in going back to the USA for any time at all except vacations and to visit family.

Re: giving up your identity. Not to much. I know other Americans /Brits /Canadians.... that came because they were married to a Dane, and that was harder for them and they felt they were losing some things. So I think the feeling is normal. However, I came for work, no DH, on a one year contract. And I loved absorbing the Danish culture, and then I freely chose to continue for another year and then another, and only then did I get the DH, the house, DS and DD. I think that self-choice and fredom makes a difference.

[TeaLeaf]

RomanGoddess,

thanks for the CNED link. I'm not sure whether or not I will homeschool. I have time to make the decision, DS is less than 5 mo.

The nearest French school is too far for commuting, not to mention traffic around here. It would take 2 hours one way! guh.

I only visited Rome :) I was in Padova near Venice, same region. Love that area and Tuscany.

jeannineb,

About identity :) I think it's like everything else, it's what one makes of it. It's like figuring out where home is; it's where I choose to live. Mind you I didn't come to this way of thinking overnight; it took 10 years of being here. It was a decision: be miserable wanting what I had chosen to leave behind, nobody forced me to move, or just be happy where I am and with my heritage. Until I had DS, I never felt the need to associate with others from France or Italy. I just wanted to integrate and I feel I have. :)

[amitymama]

I didn't realise that 'expat' meant in another country for a determined period of time, I just thought it meant anyone who left their country for a new one. Is that incorrect?

At any rate, I am a 'transplant' in that I am married to an Englishman and will be in the UK indefinitely. We might move to another country some day but have no plans to at the moment. We don't have any language issues since we both speak English, though the slang and cultural differences are enough to keep things interesting! :)

[jeannineb]

Thanks for the responses about identity. I am not hating life here by any means, and I do want to integrate and speak better Norwegian, but well, I guess I just didn't realize it would be so hard :o! And moving here was my idea! Really, our life here is great and we are definitely not moving back, our home is here now.

[wallabisfarm]

Hi -

This is me, too. I'm from the US, married to my Japanese dh and living in Japan. We are putting down roots here, having bought a house, rented farmland and built a bakery that we are now running, so it is hard to imagine ever leaving, but then you never know....

We are waiting to adopt a toddler (soon, hopefullly!) and as we prepare our home, a lot of the differences strike me, and i find I miss the thought of some very specific things from childhood. For instance, we don't even have a tv, but I find myself sad that we wont have pbs playing in the background as I do my morning work or what have you. Odd, eh?

Speaking to the point oif identity - we have been here ofr just three years now, and the identity idea has been surprising to me, as I have slowly taken on the role, in my mind, of that crazy foreign lady at the end of the road. I am sure this is what the neighbors think of me! It is freeing, in a way, though to embrace the idea that no one quite knows what to expect of you. Or soi I feel today. Talk to me tomorrow and I may be wanting to throw stuff at my MIL for her insistence that I shoudl morph in to the perfect Japanese housewife!

Sara

[TeaLeaf]

You cracked me up... anytime I do something goofy/odd, I tell my friends "I'm French, what do you expect?" :p It usually diffuses things and we all laugh.



Speaking to the point oif identity - we have been here ofr just three years now, and the identity idea has been surprising to me, as I have slowly taken on the role, in my mind, of that crazy foreign lady at the end of the road. I am sure this is what the neighbors think of me! It is freeing, in a way, though to embrace the idea that no one quite knows what to expect of you. Or soi I feel today. Talk to me tomorrow and I may be wanting to throw stuff at my MIL for her insistence that I shoudl morph in to the perfect Japanese housewife!

Sara

[TeaLeaf]

sapphos,

I see you miss Miami... who wouldn't ;) trying to go to FL for a vacation right now; we're freezing our behinds here in Chicagoland.



:cold:

[Alcyone]

Semantics discussion (feel free to skip if you don't care ;) ):
I have never heard of expat meaning temporary. Most of the people in my expat meetup are permanent or at least here for an undetermined period of time. Personally, I prefer the term immigrant to transplant. To me transplant seems to imply I'm never really going to fit in, or that I don't really belong here.

Moving on…
I'm an American married to a Dane. It is unlikely I will take Danish citizenship, as under current law I would have to give up my US citizenship. The state of things here (or in the US for that matter :P) could change by the time I'd be eligible to apply, so I guess we'll see.

I'm pregnant with our first, and we're definitely planning on raising multicultural children. I want them to appreciate both languages, cultures, histories, etc. My cousin is an American married to a Mexican, and they didn't even teach their children Spanish! That kind of thing just pains me. :(

I haven't felt like I've given up any of my identity. I have had to give up a bit of my independence, though, since my Danish isn't that good, and we seem to live in some magic pocket of the greater Copenhagen area where no one knows English. "Everyone speaks English" my eye! I either have to take DH with me, or try to use hand signals to do things like explain the haircut I want. Other than that, and the fact that non-British/American movie rentals don't often have English subtitles, life here is pretty good. At least movies here aren't dubbed!

[Alcyone]

You cracked me up... anytime I do something goofy/odd, I tell my friends "I'm French, what do you expect?" :p It usually diffuses things and we all laugh.
I've always wanted to use the excuse "well, that's how my people do it" when I confuse someone, but unfortunately people here know way too much about American culture!

[RomanGoddess]

Semantics discussion (feel free to skip if you don't care ;) ):
I have never heard of expat meaning temporary. Most of the people in my expat meetup are permanent or at least here for an undetermined period of time. Personally, I prefer the term immigrant to transplant. To me transplant seems to imply I'm never really going to fit in, or that I don't really belong here.


Hmm, I suppose expatriates could be people who have moved to another country permanently. I think the difference though, is that expatriates have generally been transferred to that country for purposes of work. I would not call someone who full out immigrated to a country because of marriage, for example, an expatriate. I would say that person was an immigrant to that country.

The reason that I did not use the term "immigrant" moms here is that people Americans (which, I believe, constitute the majority of users on this MDC) look upon this term as immigrants to the USA, whereas I am referring to moms who have immigrated away from the USA to another foreign land (perhaps emigrant would be the correct term, but emigrant puts emphasis on the leaving part and I want to emphasize the placing roots somewhere else aspect, if you know what I mean...)

[Alcyone]

I think the difference though, is that expatriates have generally been transferred to that country for purposes of work.
That's another distinction I've never heard of. *shrug*

The reason that I did not use the term "immigrant" moms here is that people Americans (which, I believe, constitute the majority of users on this MDC) look upon this term as immigrants to the USA, whereas I am referring to moms who have immigrated away from the USA to another foreign land
Fair point, although I would think that immigrants to the USA would be welcome here too, as well as people who have no connection to the USA at all but still left their native country. In the context of the multicultural forum, I would take immigrant to refer to me unless stated otherwise.

[TeaLeaf]

I think that would make it even funnier if you claimed it cultural :))

Frankly, it's not so much about what they know but about what they think they know, i.e. usually stereotypical stuff. It goes for everyone transplanted.

I've always wanted to use the excuse "well, that's how my people do it" when I confuse someone, but unfortunately people here know way too much about American culture!

[TeaLeaf]

Immigrant has almost become a dirty word thanks to politicians. I consider myself an expatriate; I did not come here to work but to study and stayed. The beauty of any spoken language is that it's dynamic; the technicality line eventually moves further back. :)

Hmm, I suppose expatriates could be people who have moved to another country permanently. I think the difference though, is that expatriates have generally been transferred to that country for purposes of work. I would not call someone who full out immigrated to a country because of marriage, for example, an expatriate. I would say that person was an immigrant to that country.

The reason that I did not use the term "immigrant" moms here is that people Americans (which, I believe, constitute the majority of users on this MDC) look upon this term as immigrants to the USA, whereas I am referring to moms who have immigrated away from the USA to another foreign land (perhaps emigrant would be the correct term, but emigrant puts emphasis on the leaving part and I want to emphasize the placing roots somewhere else aspect, if you know what I mean...)

[TeaLeaf]

Learning a foreign language is not easy. I had German and English in school and was getting by when I visited the countries with those native languages. However, when I moved to Germany, I hung out with English speaking people all the time and my German never got much better. When I moved to Italy, I had nobody to speak French with except at home which really doesn't count if you knew my family and was forced to learn the language or be quiet, ack!!! :blah :p In 6 months, I was proficient enough to pass a K-12 test or equivalent. So when I moved to the US, I did not seek people who spoke any of my languages and again it took 6 months to get up to a k-12 level. Watching lotsa tv helped too LOL For once it proved useful.

[...] I do want to integrate and speak better Norwegian, but well, I guess I just didn't realize it would be so hard :o! And moving here was my idea! [...]

[nznavo]

For me, the idea of an expat being sent somewhere on a posting and getting a ton of extra financial benefits thrown in is kind of old school. We're expats, we move a fair bit, we choose where/when we want to go, and we don't get stuff like school fees/trips home/whatever else. Most expats I know are in the same situation as we are. I agree on the impermanence.

[AllisonR]

Watching lotsa tv helped too LOL For once it proved useful.

Hahaha - I used to watch the Danish weather station to learn the language. I don't watch much tv, but I agree, that is a good use for it.

RomanGoddess,
About identity :) I think it's like everything else, it's what one makes of it. It's like figuring out where home is; it's where I choose to live.

ITA. It's about appreciating all the things you have.

I found I used to be able to use my americanism as an excuse. Sorry, I didn't know the rules.... when in fact I did. Now that my Danish is pretty good, people know that I know better and I can't play dumb anymore; even if I am speaking english. That's a small price to pay to integrate into a society!

Anyone loosing their native tongue? My english is still a lot better than your average dane, but sometimes I think in Danish and then if I speak in english, it is translated wrong. Or I forget words I haven't used in a long time. Right now I can not tell you what watercress is. I've got a recipe that calls for it, and my mind tells me it is a type of salad that swans eat.

[Alcyone]

I have this problem where I end up talking like whoever I'm around, so for example, when I'm around my in-laws, I start saying things like "we should home" in a Danish accent. It's not intentional, and I don't always realize I'm doing it. :/

There are definitely some things I think of in Danish first, or in the case of some words (like types of fish) I have no idea what they are in English. In the US, I never went to a fishmonger!

[DariusMom]

Anyone loosing their native tongue? My english is still a lot better than your average dane, but sometimes I think in Danish and then if I speak in english, it is translated wrong. Or I forget words I haven't used in a long time. Right now I can not tell you what watercress is. I've got a recipe that calls for it, and my mind tells me it is a type of salad that swans eat.

Absolutely. A speak a lot of English (also with DS and with friends and such), but Dutchisms keep creeping in. My sister point out a few the other day when I was on the phone with her! Kind of funny, but kind of embarrassing. I think it's that, even when I'm speaking English, the vast majority of the time it's with non-native speakers, so I've gotten very used to adjusting my English to them, and have picked up all sorts of weird Dutch phrases which I then add to my English because Dutch people do!

Like the PP, I eat a lot more fish here than I ever did in the US, so all my fish is in Dutch, as are a lot of pregnancy, labor, and delivery words, and childhood sickness kind of words, since my son was born here in Holland. Very funny . . ..

The other thing is that my English has become very British, despite being American. Not my accent, but my word choice. I've begun saying "holiday" instead of "vacation" and "that's a pity" instead of "that's a shame" and so on. Most of the books and magazines I read are from England, a lot of my friends are British or learned British English, and I watch the BBC a lot.

[TeaLeaf]

Anyone loosing their native tongue? My english is still a lot better than your average dane, but sometimes I think in Danish and then if I speak in english, it is translated wrong. Or I forget words I haven't used in a long time. Right now I can not tell you what watercress is. I've got a recipe that calls for it, and my mind tells me it is a type of salad that swans eat.

yep, I throw English words in my French sentences or even anglicize some. :eyesroll Usually right after I do that I realize it. oh well :)

[RomanGoddess]

I write a lot so I maintain my native language that way. On the other hand, I am finding that my writing work coupled with my need to speak to my daughter in English and my DH in French is preventing me from learning the local language (Italian) fluently! :eyesroll

[TeaLeaf]

Take a class that would make you interact with the locals, whatever tickles your fancy; it could be some sport, too. That's one way to be immersed and learn.

I took a typing class once to do that. It was a hoot and I made friends :)

Vedrai che e piu facile cosi :) (sorry no accents)

I write a lot so I maintain my native language that way. On the other hand, I am finding that my writing work coupled with my need to speak to my daughter in English and my DH in French is preventing me from learning the local language (Italian) fluently! :eyesroll

[calynde]

Hello...another "transplanted" *expat* here! :wink

I'm actually sort of a bit of both. I moved to Switzerland to study/work. Met a Swiss, got married and had a baby. Have been here almost 7 years, am eligible for citizenship, but now my Swiss dh has a globetrotting job which will have us moving abroad for a few years every few years. Here, he is *local* and I'm a transplant, abroad we are both *expats*. But wherever we are, we will definitely not be in California...which is where I'm from. :p

I don't know about the wording so much...almost everyone I know here considers themselves an expat despite being married to a local.

My ds is an English-speaker who also speaks German. The English comes first for us, because of the globetrotting. :)

[MetasMom]

I have no way of telling if I am an expat (by your definition) or transplant because I don't know what the future will bring and where I will be in a couple of years.

Concerning the language: I think it depends on how much you want to teach your children all of their parent's tongues! I firmly believe that a person has a very hard time identifying himself/herself with a culture and nationality if he/she doesn't speak the language as a native speaker. I believe bilingualism for binationals is not just the icing on the cake but central for identy formation.

I speak from experience because I am a dual citizen myself and have passed this on to my daughter.

Actually, in our case my husband is the transplant because we are currently residing in the U.S. At the moment, we are planning to return to Germany the latest when our daughter starts 5th grade. Except if we hit the jackpot and can afford a good international school with no religious background for her.

[MCR]

I guess we are transplants too. But in reverse :scratch Dh moved from UK to US as a teen and finished school here. I moved here to be with him as a young adult.
We were both UK citizens and are now Dual nationals, as are all three kids who were born in US.
I still live in hope that one day we will move "home" but if we leave it much longer they'll be no family left there.
My whole family are transplanted to somewhere. Aunt and cousins in Spain, uncles and cousins in Australia and Sister in Gran Caneria.
My Mom is the last one on my side still there, and Dh has his Dad and step mom and half sibs there, but non are close to us.

[BunniMummi]

I've always figured myself for an expatriate, to me it means nothing more than what the dictionary tells me it means "One who has taken up residence in a foreign country." I don't know how long I will be here, my answer for the last few years has always been "It looks like a couple more years anyway..." I do know what you mean though about not fitting into the jetsetting lifestyle of a rich business "expat".

Regarding citizenship, I can't for the life of me imagine giving up my US citizenship unless there was a real pressing need for it. It is where I am from, it is where my family is and it helps to open up a second world of possibilities for my children who do qualify for dual citizenship in Norway because of who their parents are (you can be born with it and keep it for a lifetime, you just can't earn it later). To me it feels too much like burning my bridges. I would at least recommend not doing it for the first 3 years, I think thats about how long it took me to settle into life here and feel a bit more clear headed about things. First year everything is grand, second year everything is wrong, third year you start to see that some things are better, some are worse and people are just people.

About feeling a loss of identity. I went through that for a while when I was still adjusting to life here. To begin with you are out of place totally but then you start getting used to things and feel a bit out of sorts with being neither one nor the other. Once I had adjusted though and knew that I could handle life here if I wanted to I was more at peace with just being who I am, whatever that happens to mean at the time.

[elizaveta]

I would at least recommend not doing it for the first 3 years, I think thats about how long it took me to settle into life here and feel a bit more clear headed about things. First year everything is grand, second year everything is wrong, third year you start to see that some things are better, some are worse and people are just people.

This is so true! :nod

[jeannineb]

About feeling a loss of identity. I went through that for a while when I was still adjusting to life here. To begin with you are out of place totally but then you start getting used to things and feel a bit out of sorts with being neither one nor the other. Once I had adjusted though and knew that I could handle life here if I wanted to I was more at peace with just being who I am, whatever that happens to mean at the time.

Thanks for that BunniMummi, there IS hope for me! Hei fra Kongsberg!

Jeannine

[KathinJapan]

Hi like Sara I am also married and living in Japan. A group of women here in the same circumstances (not Japanese but married to a J. man) had a discussion on transplant/immigrant/expat and how do we define ourselves.

For me transplant is best. We have a saying
bloom where you are planted

as someone else mentioned I am happy to have been living and working here and speaking some of the language before I met DH.

nice to find this forum
Kathryn

[TeaLeaf]

I would at least recommend not doing it for the first 3 years, I think thats about how long it took me to settle into life here and feel a bit more clear headed about things. First year everything is grand, second year everything is wrong, third year you start to see that some things are better, some are worse and people are just people.

It took me over a decade to get used to the US and finally call it my permanent home without a feeling that I'd want to jump ship any time soon :) I have to admit, I still miss those exclusively French food items... guh :P

[Katica]

Hi, I`m also married to Japanese man. We`ve been here (Japan) for two years and planning to stay for another 3 or so, then move back to Europe. I`m a Ukrainian citizen but ethnically Hungarian so lots of languages and cultures are involved. I speak Hungarian with ds and dh speaks in Japanese. It`s kind of funny b/c our common language is still English. Talk about confusion. :dizzy: But Japanese is becoming more and more prominent in our family with my Japanese improving.

What sort of foods do you cook at home? There was an American family living here who only made American food and never really Japanese. I prepare Japanese food most of the time b/c that`s what`s readily available. I`ve ordered some seeds to plant in my garden so I can make a good Hungarian gulyas. :eat:

[RomanGoddess]

Regarding citizenship, I cannot imagine giving up my Canadian citizenship. Taking on another citizenship, sure. But not if that means giving up Canadian. No way.

[KathinJapan]

I cook a mix. When people in the states ask what I cook, I can`t say American food, but I don`t cook traditional J. food either.

we eat brown rice and miso soup for breakfast 3-4 times a week, once a week oatmeal and once a week pancakes, Sundays or Thursdays are sort of undecided.

My DH takes an Obento (box lunch) to work. It is pretty traditional, although I don`t put fried foods in it. Brown rice and a simmered veggie dish, a protein and usually a stir fry of some sort.

We go light on the carbs at many dinners. Tonight is soba, buckwheat noodles with teriyaki chicken burgers.

I try to eat local and with the seasons, which is why it is hard to say exactly what I eat.

Post the gulyas recipe please.
Kathryn

[okura]

i'm australian, married to a japanese man, with a 2yr old daughter.
i've been transplanted here for 11 years but lately there is talk of moving to australia for good.....exciting and scary at the same time!

sometimes i feel stuck between the expats here short-term and the regular japanese. i don't really fit in with either. (that sounds worse than it really is!).

to get japanese citizenship, i'd have to give up australian citizenship, so i won't be doing it.

[east carolina]

I'm American, DH is Czech and DS is both and we live in Prague. But I'm not a classic expat/transplant/wachamacallit because my parents are Czech and I grew up bilingual. When I originally moved to Prague, it was to study, then I met my DH, got a job, we had a baby.... it was a fluid transition and Prague has always been a second home to me.

When I first came here, I knew virtually no Americans. Now, I would say our friends are 50/50 expat/native. I definitely feel at home here, I don't miss the US in a deep homesick way that would make me want to drop everything to move there, plus since DH isn't American, we wouldn't be able to move back as a family, I would have to move first and he would have to apply from Prague. But we are thinking of moving to another country, somewhere within the EU.

We speak English at home alot (DH is actually an English teacher), and DS so far is stronger in English than in Czech (he's 3).

[sadiejane08]

Hey, east carolina, where are you from in the US? I ask because my parents live in Greenville, NC (I grew up in little Washington and then Greenville), home of East Carolina University.

[MamaEli]

This is such a great discussion, I'm glad I found it.

I can't say I'm a transplant (or whatever you want to call it) but DH certainly is. We live in the US, and he is from Kenya. However, we socialize about 50/50 with Americans and Kenyans, and currently have some friends from Kenya living with us, so our house is very African right now. It's been interesting hearing the kids pick up Swahili phrases! Interestingly enough, it was me with my bad Swahili who spoke it the most with the kids prior to our friends visiting, but now they're picking it up from the other kids and overhearing all the adults.

But I wanted to comment on the identity part---yeah, sometimes it can feel like you're losing your idenity (even in your "home" culture, strange as that sounds.) Sometimes I just need to get in the car, turn on some country music, and grab some BoJangles and sweet tea for lunch.....or cook some meatloaf and squash for supper....or have coffee and Cheerios for breakfast. (I guess food is the big thing for me!)

Would we move back to Kenya if we could? IF the political situation was stable, and IF we knew we could have the lifestyle we wanted--YES, in a heartbeat. I would love for my kids to be raised in that culture and speak the many languages--or at least Swahili and Luo--that would be possible there. But until then, we call the States home and DH (and I) long for the African sky.
Oh, and no, I will not give up my American citizenship.

[sphinx]

hi east carolina!!! Another US citizen married to a Czech - though I have no Czech roots whatsoever and painstakingly learned the language when i got here 15 years ago. I don't really identify with "expat" but I like the term "transplant", it describes how I feel, which is that one day i flew in here with the wind, got stuck in the ground, sprouted some babies -- and now you could dig me up and put me in some other soil and I'd be quite happy for the different angle of the sun, new birdcalls and different climate.

Oh - and i was just in Rome! I loved it!

[RomanGoddess]

For those of you who are English mother tongue but not living in an English-speaking country, are your kids bilingual? Do you speak to them exclusively in English? Do they speak to you in English or in the local language? Are you finding bilingualism to be an uphill battle?

[DariusMom]

For those of you who are English mother tongue but not living in an English-speaking country, are your kids bilingual? Do you speak to them exclusively in English? Do they speak to you in English or in the local language? Are you finding bilingualism to be an uphill battle?

I'm American and live in Holland. DS (5) is bilingual, but his Dutch is stronger than his English. He forgets words more easily in English and often uses Dutch sentence structure. I speak to him exclusively in English, but DH uses exclusively Dutch (except at the supper table, when we have an all english rule). DS speaks to me in English, but he does forget sometimes and speak to me in Dutch, especially if he's around other kids or is tired.

I have found bilingualism to be more of a battle than I expected, but, for me, it is also tied up with issues of culture and identity, so it is more than just using Dutch sentence structure in English, you know?

DS' English was completely passive when he was two, which freaked me out, so we ramped up the English by instituting the English supper table rule and making an extra effort to get English-language books, DVDs, etc. We also had to make sure that my family didn't try to speak to DS in Dutch (not that they really speak it, but they thought it was cute to mix up Dutch words they were learning when talking to him, etc..).

I'm very happy we'll be living in the US for six months next year, though, and DS can go to an American school. I think his English needs a bit more help. BTW: he also speaks English with a slight Dutch accent!

[calynde]

For those of you who are English mother tongue but not living in an English-speaking country, are your kids bilingual? Do you speak to them exclusively in English? Do they speak to you in English or in the local language? Are you finding bilingualism to be an uphill battle?

I'm from the US, dh is a German-speaking Swiss. I read up on bilingualism when ds was little and every.single.source seemed to say "one person, one language". However, our family here includes a couple of mixed-language families (one is English/French and the other is German/French) and in both cases they kept it ONE language at home, and the other language for education and out in the world. In both of those families, the kids are perfectly bilingual, but they FEEL and THINK first in their home language. This is soooooo what I wanted for ds, to feel and think in English but to be fluent in German as well. So we have always spoken English at home (my dh has no accent in English luckily). Now at 5, ds is bilingual...but much, much more an English speaker...and there is a bit of an accent when he speaks Swiss German, but it's slowly fading. Other friends we have who have done one person, one language here have the mother speaking English to the kids and the kids responding to the mother in German. For whatever reasons, i never wanted this to be us!

We are looking at a lifetime of international moves though, with periodic stays back in Switzerland....so for us, English is just much more practical. I have been extremely protective of it since the beginning, and although I have gotten the critical eye many times over the years, in the end he is bilingual and the English is stronger....just like we wanted. So we're happy with how it's been developing thus far! :thumb

[RomanGoddess]

Calynde, sounds like you are doing the right thing. I think that often, one parent one language results in the being only passively bilingual in the minority parent language, especially if the minority parent works full time, simply because the child does not get enough exposure in the language to speak it.

Question: you said that you speak English exclusively in the home. But do you also speak English to your son when you are out and about (assuming that no one else is in the conversation?). What about when he has friends over? Or in the playground?

[calynde]

Question: you said that you speak English exclusively in the home. But do you also speak English to your son when you are out and about (assuming that no one else is in the conversation?). What about when he has friends over? Or in the playground?

We both (dh and I) only speak English to ds...whether in the home or out. When he's with us in any scenario, it's English...no matter who else is around. Having said that, we don't have anyone around that doesn't at least understand English. All the Swiss we know do, so that hasn't been a problem. But I would stick to English either way. At playgroup and on the playground, ds speaks a mix of Swiss German and English. Luckily, since he's still so young, other kids don't seem to care about or react to his *creole* one way or the other. Occasionally, ds asks his dad to *play* with him in Swiss German and they do...but when play mode is switched off and they become themselves again...they go right back into English. It's interesting!

[Alcyone]

I haven't dealt with this yet but I find this interesting. We have been planning on OPOL. I haven't really worried about our child not being exposed to Danish, since we live in Denmark and basically everyone will be using Danish except me. I'm not sure how DH speaking English would help with that, but maybe I am misunderstanding something.

I don't remember what site it was now, but I was just recently reading about how one language home and another for everything else was a successful way to raise bilingual kids. It basically said as long as you are consistent and the same situations (whether it's talking to a particular person or in a particular place or at a particular time) mean the same language, the kids can keep it straight.

[east carolina]

hi east carolina!!! Another US citizen married to a Czech - though I have no Czech roots whatsoever and painstakingly learned the language when i got here 15 years ago. I don't really identify with "expat" but I like the term "transplant", it describes how I feel, which is that one day i flew in here with the wind, got stuck in the ground, sprouted some babies -- and now you could dig me up and put me in some other soil and I'd be quite happy for the different angle of the sun, new birdcalls and different climate.

Oh - and i was just in Rome! I loved it!

Hey Sphinx! Nice to see you on here, maybe we'll run into each other again at Dhaba:wink

Hey, east carolina, where are you from in the US? I ask because my parents live in Greenville, NC (I grew up in little Washington and then Greenville), home of East Carolina University.

I just chose my username because my name is Caroline and I live in one of the former "eastern bloc" countries. I grew up around Washington, D.C. I didn't even know there was an East Caroline university:o

[peggyitaly]

For those of you who are English mother tongue but not living in an English-speaking country, are your kids bilingual? Do you speak to them exclusively in English? Do they speak to you in English or in the local language? Are you finding bilingualism to be an uphill battle?

DD1 who is now 5 years old is completely bilingual. I speak to her in English only and can't bring myself to speak to her in Italian...I even will "read" Italian books in English, making up the story in English. She responds in English as well, although it hasn't always been this way. She even will ask me how to say somewords in Italian. There was a time when I would have said it was an uphill battle, but I wouldn't say that's the case anymore. She almost always speak in Italian with DH who's Italian.

I would like to get an English playgroup going here in our town so she could have more interaction with other English speaking people, but i think it's just too hard to coordinate with the others.

[ewe+lamb]

For those of you who are English mother tongue but not living in an English-speaking country, are your kids bilingual? Do you speak to them exclusively in English? Do they speak to you in English or in the local language? Are you finding bilingualism to be an uphill battle?

We live in France, dh is algerian and I'm scottish, we speak english at home and my dd is finding the whole bilingual thing SO hard at the moment, the school are putting her forward for obligatory testing which is p***ing me off because they really aren't taking the bilingual thing into account. Anyway to answer question, the kids are bilingual, yes exclusively in english, mix up of both languages, and yes a real uphill battle. So much so, we're really considering going back to scotland and not doing the whole bilingual thing at all - but then I guess that won't really help either.:shrug

[aussiemum]

Not sure if I have responded to this thread yet, but I am a transplanted mum. DH & I speak the same language, so that is definitely easier in some ways.....

I am now a citizen of my DP's country, so when we travel I guess that means we are all on the same footing now, no matter the country we are visiting.

[sphinx]

I haven't dealt with this yet but I find this interesting. We have been planning on OPOL. I haven't really worried about our child not being exposed to Danish, since we live in Denmark and basically everyone will be using Danish except me. I'm not sure how DH speaking English would help with that, but maybe I am misunderstanding something.

I don't remember what site it was now, but I was just recently reading about how one language home and another for everything else was a successful way to raise bilingual kids. It basically said as long as you are consistent and the same situations (whether it's talking to a particular person or in a particular place or at a particular time) mean the same language, the kids can keep it straight.

This is what we did - DD spent the first 6 mo of her life with me as her only English source, in Czechy. Then we moved to the States and spoke exclusively Czech at home. DD understood everything, but rarely actually spoke Czech back to us. We returned to Czechy when she was 4 and within 6 months she was fluently speaking Czech. Going to a Czech school for first grade solidified that, and now she goes to English school for 2nd grade and is catching up in English. (she's 8 now) I think spoken English is her mother tongue in terms of feeling, but she is actually probably more expressive and fluent in Czech at this time. That will ebb and flow with her development in general. However, I might have done it the other way around; read/write English first, then Czech, because English has been more difficult for her. 3 yo DS, who spent 5 months of his life (from about 8 months old) in the States, has absolutely equally fluent English and Czech.

I think, Alcyone, that your DPs influence in English could actually be very useful if not vitally important, because it lets the children know that he will understand them, so they don't stray off too much into Danish with him. You could institute a home-English rule and it will be much easier to maintain with daddy participating. My children do tend to play with their father in Czech, and sometimes they listen to Czech radio shows and old Czech movies from his childhood that he wants to share with them, but otherwise we have never had a television nor have we ever used any extra didactic materials of any kind, and we haven't even been totally careful about maintaining the rules, but both languages just came very naturally for both children.

ewe & lamb - how old is your dd? When my dd was 4 and we returned to Czechy, even though we knew she had absorbed the language while we were in the States, actually having to use it was very hard for her and she was quite often very frustrated. Partly i think it was a personality thing - she doesn't like making mistakes, and is pretty shy, so having to do something that was very challenging in front of others and risk being wrong or misunderstood scared her a lot.

[sophi4ka]

I immigrated twice - once when I was 12 from Russia to Israel and second time when I was 28 from Israel to US. I am married to a Romanian immigrant.

What culture are we suppose to teach our kids? Russian? Israeli? Jewish? Romanian? Christian? American? How can they learn to speak any of the languages that each of us speaks, if between ourselves we speak English?

I pretty much gave up on passing my roots to my DD. I don't think it is realistically possible, given the circumstances.

[Alcyone]

I think, Alcyone, that your DPs influence in English could actually be very useful if not vitally important, because it lets the children know that he will understand them, so they don't stray off too much into Danish with him.

I honestly don't know what you're saying at all. What does that mean, "stray off too much"? Why would they think he doesn't understand them? I'm sorry, but this is confusing to me.

[RomanGoddess]

I honestly don't know what you're saying at all. What does that mean, "stray off too much"? Why would they think he doesn't understand them? I'm sorry, but this is confusing to me.

Can I assume your DH is Danish, you are a native English speaker and you live in Denmark? The idea is that if you are the only one speaking English in the house, it is possible (perhaps even likely, if you work full time and are not with your kids a lot during the week) that your children will understand English but will not speak it, because the Danish input is very high compared to the English input.

On the other hand, if you make a rule that at home, everyone speaks English (including your DH), your kids will get a good balance of both languages (they get Danish all around them outside the home). What is more, they will feel comfortable talking to their father in English, even though he is Danish, because they know that he understands it. If he just speaks Danish to them all the time, they may revert to speaking in Danish whenever he is around (even when talking to you) because they want him to understand and they don't realize that he understands English.

[knittinanny]

Hi everyone, I'm a transplanted not-yet-mama. My DP is English and American (American parents, born and raised partially in the UK and partially in Texas) and I'm American. We've lived in London for almost 3 years. I vacillate between wanting to move back to the States as soon as possible and thinking that we'll live here permanently. I want to have at least one child here because of the superior legal rights here and stuff. How did your families react when you got pregnant and had a child in another country? I think my mom will flip out since I'm so far away. :nono02:

[aussiemum]

Hi everyone, I'm a transplanted not-yet-mama. My DP is English and American (American parents, born and raised partially in the UK and partially in Texas) and I'm American. We've lived in London for almost 3 years. I vacillate between wanting to move back to the States as soon as possible and thinking that we'll live here permanently. I want to have at least one child here because of the superior legal rights here and stuff. How did your families react when you got pregnant and had a child in another country? I think my mom will flip out since I'm so far away. :nono02:


In all honestly, that is a another thread on its own. :) But in a quick answer, for practice, maybe try giving your folks 2 days notice for your wedding date- that should sort 'em out. Worked for me, anyway. ;)

[ewe+lamb]

ewe & lamb - how old is your dd? When my dd was 4 and we returned to Czechy, even though we knew she had absorbed the language while we were in the States, actually having to use it was very hard for her and she was quite often very frustrated. Partly i think it was a personality thing - she doesn't like making mistakes, and is pretty shy, so having to do something that was very challenging in front of others and risk being wrong or misunderstood scared her a lot.
DD is 5.5 and yes she doesn't like making mistakes but she tries SO hard, we're getting her hearing checked out as there could be a problem there, but yes I think for her it is exceptionally challenging, I spoke with her speach therapist this morning which has reassured us ALOT and other 'professionals' who are more on our side than the school dr, whom the ST doesn't rate at all! We'll probably keep going with the whole bilingual thing because it is important for her and her brother to speak french but goodness there are days when I could throw the towel in and move home without blinking an eye!!!

[sphinx]

Can I assume your DH is Danish, you are a native English speaker and you live in Denmark? The idea is that if you are the only one speaking English in the house, it is possible (perhaps even likely, if you work full time and are not with your kids a lot during the week) that your children will understand English but will not speak it, because the Danish input is very high compared to the English input.

On the other hand, if you make a rule that at home, everyone speaks English (including your DH), your kids will get a good balance of both languages (they get Danish all around them outside the home). What is more, they will feel comfortable talking to their father in English, even though he is Danish, because they know that he understands it. If he just speaks Danish to them all the time, they may revert to speaking in Danish whenever he is around (even when talking to you) because they want him to understand and they don't realize that he understands English.

sorry alcyone if it didn't make sense to you. but roman goddess more or less explained what i meant. thanks!

[Alcyone]

The idea is that if you are the only one speaking English in the house, it is possible (perhaps even likely, if you work full time and are not with your kids a lot during the week) that your children will understand English but will not speak it, because the Danish input is very high compared to the English input.
Thank you for the explanation.

I stay at home so they'll be seeing a lot of me. I was under the impression that with OPOL the kids speak to each parent in the same language the parent speaks to them in. Is that not how it works out for most people?

[sphinx]

Thank you for the explanation.

I stay at home so they'll be seeing a lot of me. I was under the impression that with OPOL the kids speak to each parent in the same language the parent speaks to them in. Is that not how it works out for most people?

Sorry.let me clarify, In a previous post you had said, "I'm not sure how DH speaking English would help with that, but maybe I am misunderstanding something." and I thought it was in regard to how it could work IF you were to use one language at home, not OPOL. Sorry, posting when i don't have much time and probably not articulating clearly!!!

[calynde]

I honestly don't know what you're saying at all. What does that mean, "stray off too much"? Why would they think he doesn't understand them? I'm sorry, but this is confusing to me.

Going back to the original topic of whether or not *one person one language* actually produces truly bilingual children if you are transplanted somewhere where one of those languages is dominant.

I know *many* (I might even say most "transplants" that I've met) English-speaking mothers married to Swiss who did one person one language at home. So mama speaks English, dad speaks German or whatever. Kid is spoken to in German by extended family, neighbors, classmates, teachers, carers, and dad...etc. Much of the time (to the surprise of the mother!) the child doesn't end up speaking much English...understanding yes, but speaking no. Not even to the mother...who has only spoken English to the child from day one. So, mama says something in English to the child. Child responds in Danish/French/German whatever. There are sometimes exceptions, but I have seen it play out like this time and time again. Now, whether or not this bothers you is a separate issue. We just wanted an English speaker FIRST and a German speaker SECOND...so we worked really hard at keeping an English "island" at home.

Sometimes I wonder if one person one language is meant more for families with two languages who live in a third country. Like a French and a Dane living in the UK...then it would make perfect sense to me. But when one of the two languages is dominant out in the world, the minority language often doesn't develop as much as many parents initially hoped.

[calynde]

I also wanted to add that of the cases I'm talking about, none of the kids speak back in English to their mothers despite the mothers having never worked outside of the home. So being with them all day isn't always a guarantee.

[MetasMom]

Very interesting topic! I really want my daughter to become truly bilingual, meaning that she can think and dream in both languages.

OPOL is not the only method that works and there are more choices out there. I believe it depends on how much exposure to which language the child has.

We live in the U.S. and speak German at home. My husband speaks German with our child and I speak English. With my husband being at work all day, we think she is not getting the proper amount of German exposure. So I am just now thinking of giving up OPOL and starting to speak German with her when her daddy is around.

Of course, living in the U.S., we could just speak German with her because she is learning English outside the house anyway. But I remember my own issues as a child refusing the "other" language when we moved and therefore wanted to do OPOL as to have her speak English with me NO MATTER where we are.

The biggest enemy of multilingualism is peer pressure and children's wish to be like their friends. I am looking for a technique to make this less of an issue in the future - although I cannot prevent it altogether. Right now it looks like I will have to run the risk of giving up OPOL so she can learn German on a native speaker's level. Then I will have to deal with the problem of peer pressure.

If anyone has an idea here, I'd be happy to hear.

[DariusMom]

Going back to the original topic of whether or not *one person one language* actually produces truly bilingual children if you are transplanted somewhere where one of those languages is dominant.

I know *many* (I might even say most "transplants" that I've met) English-speaking mothers married to Swiss who did one person one language at home. So mama speaks English, dad speaks German or whatever. Kid is spoken to in German by extended family, neighbors, classmates, teachers, carers, and dad...etc. Much of the time (to the surprise of the mother!) the child doesn't end up speaking much English...understanding yes, but speaking no. Not even to the mother...who has only spoken English to the child from day one. So, mama says something in English to the child. Child responds in Danish/French/German whatever. There are sometimes exceptions, but I have seen it play out like this time and time again. Now, whether or not this bothers you is a separate issue. We just wanted an English speaker FIRST and a German speaker SECOND...so we worked really hard at keeping an English "island" at home.

Sometimes I wonder if one person one language is meant more for families with two languages who live in a third country. Like a French and a Dane living in the UK...then it would make perfect sense to me. But when one of the two languages is dominant out in the world, the minority language often doesn't develop as much as many parents initially hoped.

We've OPOL'd here in Holland. It was, as I mentioned in my PP, an uphill battle and it's still a challenge, but DS *does* speak English pretty well. It is often with Dutch sentence structure, but he understands and speaks well.

If I had to do it over again, though, I would have tried to create an English island at home. DH and I speak English to each other and, when DS was two and it was clear his English was far too passive, we instituted English at supper time. However DH speaks to DS only in Dutch. I WOH PT so he went to daycare in Dutch and now goes to school in Dutch. It just hasn't been enough English, IMO. Despite our best efforts with books, DVDs, family from the States, etc., his English is a bit weak. That being said, it would have been really upsetting for DH to speak to DS in English rather than Dutch.

*But* we're going to the US to live for 6 months next year, and I'm working on helping DS with his English, so I'm sure it will be fine in the end.

I'm glad to hear we weren't the only ones with problems around OPOL.

[Alcyone]

Sorry, posting when i don't have much time and probably not articulating clearly!!!
No, no. The part you quoted from me was directed to what RomanGoddess said about the child not speaking English if we OPOL, not to what you said. I understood that your post was with regards to English-at-home. :)

Thank you everyone for sharing your experience. I guess I underestimated the outside influence since it seemed like the kids would just be with me so much! I readily admit that it's very hard for me to visualize our life after the baby is born, though! Can anyone really know what they are getting into with kids before it actually happens? :innocent

DH's English grammar, vocabulary, and spelling are excellent… better than a lot of native speakers I know… but he does have an accent. Is this a big issue? He has actually worked really hard on it since I met him and he's come a long way. (He can now impress his friends by being able to say "throw the squirrel through the refrigerator"… something most Danes won't even attempt!) It's still there, though. Would this be confusing?

[RomanGoddess]

Sometimes I wonder if one person one language is meant more for families with two languages who live in a third country. Like a French and a Dane living in the UK...then it would make perfect sense to me. But when one of the two languages is dominant out in the world, the minority language often doesn't develop as much as many parents initially hoped.

I think you are right. We are in this exact situation. I speak English, DH speaks French and we live in Italy. OPOL works well here. In France, I do not think that she would be hearing enough English unless we sent her to a bilingual school as well.

But the "island" of a language a home only works when both spouses can speak that language well...

[mad cow]

I have been in Japan for 22 years, married to a Japanese man for 12 years and not even once have I referred to myself as an "expat".

I will never take Japanese nationality, I have 3 japanese kids. I am merely a foreigner in Japan.

yoroshiku.

and I am probably best described as a person from another time zone.

[calynde]

DH's English grammar, vocabulary, and spelling are excellent… better than a lot of native speakers I know… but he does have an accent. Is this a big issue?

I personally wouldn't worry about an accent...it's the grammar and vocabulary more than anything else.

The big question is whether or not your dh would feel comfortable speaking to his child in English...from an emotional standpoint. For us it was pretty natural, because dh and I always spoke English together and my German was nothing when ds was born so it would have felt weird for him to be speaking in "code" to my baby. hehe :p This can vary so much from family to family...

[amitymama]

I have been in Japan for 22 years, married to a Japanese man for 12 years and not even once have I referred to myself as an "expat".

I will never take Japanese nationality, I have 3 japanese kids. I am merely a foreigner in Japan.

yoroshiku.

and I am probably best described as a person from another time zone.

So you don't feel any connection to Japan at all, like you are a part of it now?

[Alcyone]

The big question is whether or not your dh would feel comfortable speaking to his child in English...from an emotional standpoint.
DH has said he would be sad to not be able to speak his own language to his children, and I can understand that. We speak mostly English together, but I'm learning Danish and when I think I might be able to talk about something in Danish, I do take the opportunity. This is quite complicated to decide upon! I'm glad to have this discussion now before the baby is even born!

DH's parents' English is borderline understandable, and I would definitely prefer they stick to Danish around the kids. They are closeby and we see them quite often, so maybe we could strike a compromise where DH can speak Danish to the kids when we are with them, but speaks English to them when it's just us?

[Ilaria]

Subbing!

I'm a regular expat-for-work (dh's) with all the awesome benefits it comes with (expense-free life). I am Italian (US citizen as well), dh is American and we have lived in SE Asia for the past 3 years and are hoping to stay for much longer.

We speak English at home mostly, just because with the household staff it's easier. But my kids understand 98% of Italian and will speak it if 'forced' (i.e. with my mom who speaks no English).

[RomanGoddess]

Subbing!

I'm a regular expat-for-work (dh's) with all the awesome benefits it comes with (expense-free life). I am Italian (US citizen as well), dh is American and we have lived in SE Asia for the past 3 years and are hoping to stay for much longer.

We speak English at home mostly, just because with the household staff it's easier. But my kids understand 98% of Italian and will speak it if 'forced' (i.e. with my mom who speaks no English).

Hi Ilaria! Congratulations on your pregnancy!

I'm interested. Once your kids are done the AMI school (which, I assume, is 3-6, or is there also an elementary school?), are you going to put them in the Italian system? Friend of mine told me that the Italian system has schools everywhere in the world, just like the french lycée. Sure would beat trying to teach them the congiunctivo at home :wink

Good luck on getting your expat stay extended. We only get to stay in Italy four years, max, after which, we could get posted anywhere - Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Nigeria, Myanmar :o

[Ilaria]

My kids' school is up to high school!! One of the reasons why I really don't want to leave the Phils. anytime soon! :D Owen has just finished Grade 1 and will start Grade 2 in June (the Filipino school year is June-March).
Italian schools abroad are actually very rare, unfortunately. I'd love for my kids to have some schooling in Italian, but I don't think it will ever happen unfortunately. So, they only get 'full immersion' once a year for 5 weeks in Italy (as right now, we are in Milan) and when my mom comes to visit (3 months at a time, usually).

I'd love to live in Myanmar! Our next options (that we'd consider, we're not going back to the US or Europe) are China and Vietnam. :)

[calynde]

We only get to stay in Italy four years, max, after which, we could get posted anywhere - Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Nigeria, Myanmar :o

Sounds a bit like us. We're in Switzerland for the next year...to have this baby among other things and then we could be posted truly anywhere. Although it's not totally random...dh can *apply* for up to 3 posts. We have a list of potential favorite destinations:

-Philippines (thanks to Ilaria's blog :D)
-Vietnam
-Brazil
-New Zealand

to name a few. We're definitely ready to get out of Europe for a while. Our posts are also 4 years max.

[Missa]

Hello,
I just wanted to introduce myself and say I may be lurking around and maybe asking a few questions too. My name is Missa and I live in Texas currently (from Minnesota originally). I am a SAHM to three children (7, 4, and 3 years old) that I homeschool. My husbands company moves us around the US quite a bit but our next move will be to Europe and I'm a little nervous but totally excited too! It may take up to a year to get us there as DH has some projects to get up and running first. We will most likely be in Poland or Sweden but I heard there could be opportunity in the UK and also Spain. Anywho, I just appreciate this thread and I am thankful to have a place to ask questions on raising children in a foreign country! :)

Thanks,
Missa

[Ilaria]

We have a list of potential favorite destinations:

-Philippines (thanks to Ilaria's blog :D)
-Vietnam
-Brazil
-New Zealand

to name a few. We're definitely ready to get out of Europe for a while. Our posts are also 4 years max.

We really love it here! :D I cannot believe it is considered a 'hardship' by dhs company and we get paid extra to live there! It's crazy! It is so easy...the expat community is huge and very active and very fun. It will be sad when we go. :(

[RomanGoddess]

I'd love to live in Myanmar! Our next options (that we'd consider, we're not going back to the US or Europe) are China and Vietnam. :)

Well, I'm sure that Myanmar is a beautiful country but I'm a little bit weary of the political situation there. :o On the other hand, I would LOVE to live in Kazakhstan for a while. DH thinks I'm crazy.

[autumnfairy76]

Hello! Just wanted to introduce myself to this thread.
I am married to a French guy that brought me to Italy for almost 2 years for his work/school, then, 3 months ago, he lost his job and we are now living with the in-laws in France for an undetermined amount of time. Oh, and I am due with my first (a girl!!) ANY day now!!
In a nutshell, I am not happy with living in europe, except the travel opportunities. I feel like I will never adjust or fit in here. I hope to move back to the west coast soon, but I would like to gain French citizenship too before I go.
Well, before I start complaining too much, I'd like to say I love this forum and hope to talk to some of you soon!

[RomanGoddess]

Hello! Just wanted to introduce myself to this thread.
I am married to a French guy that brought me to Italy for almost 2 years for his work/school, then, 3 months ago, he lost his job and we are now living with the in-laws in France for an undetermined amount of time. Oh, and I am due with my first (a girl!!) ANY day now!!
In a nutshell, I am not happy with living in europe, except the travel opportunities. I feel like I will never adjust or fit in here. I hope to move back to the west coast soon, but I would like to gain French citizenship too before I go.
Well, before I start complaining too much, I'd like to say I love this forum and hope to talk to some of you soon!

Hi autumnfairy and WELCOME TO MDC! If you don't mind me asking, where are you in France? There is a great group of English speaking moms in Paris called Message Mother Support Group. It is a real lifeline. Website is www.messageparis.org.

[autumnfairy76]

Hi autumnfairy and WELCOME TO MDC! If you don't mind me asking, where are you in France? There is a great group of English speaking moms in Paris called Message Mother Support Group. It is a real lifeline. Website is www.messageparis.org.

Hi and thanks for the info on the Message Group. It looks great, but I am in Lyon, which is at least 2 hours away. I did meet a couple girls when I arrived here in a young mom's group, but it is french speaking and my french is terrible still. too bad message isn't here too.

[RomanGoddess]

Hi and thanks for the info on the Message Group. It looks great, but I am in Lyon, which is at least 2 hours away. I did meet a couple girls when I arrived here in a young mom's group, but it is french speaking and my french is terrible still. too bad message isn't here too.

You can still join long distance and it may be worthwhile. (Heck I retained my membership even when we moved to Italy!). Their members' website forum has invaluable information and it's also a great place to vent!

[jul511riv]

hi moms. I don't know where I belong. laughing and shrugging shoulders.

I grew up in the midwest, lived in northern california for most of my adult life, married an Israeli and am now living as a duel citizen here in Israel with my two youngins. Both the kids speak in both languages, but my dd (who is certainly speaking far more than the baby) often blends two languages in her sentences. We have also taught them ASL (modified) and some Spanish and a bit of French. The Spanish and French are VERY VERY non-existant...just a word here or there, or counting...just the basics..Spanish quite a bit more than the French, thanks to Dora the Explorer. :eyesroll :love :thumb

I've tried to get my fil to speak in Morrocain to the children (color me ignorant, but this is a language quite close to Arabic, but slightly different and was his first language), and dh will give the kids a bit of Arabic here and there (counting words, etc...) but mostly we are focused on Hebrew and English.

I totally do feel like an American and feel a ton of pride at being American as well as being a Jew in Israel. I have a lot of issues with both cultures, that being said. :irked:

My Hebrew is fairly passable. I never thought I'd be able to speak more than a few words in a "foreign" langauge, and it surely has taken time, but listening to dh speak to the children in Hebrew has been a huge help. Of course I can converse with children and their parents about child related things, but when it comes to having a conversation about "melting butter" (it came up yestareday) well I just was kicking myself for never knowing the word for "melting"...and of course later the word "cast" as in on a leg) and it is these things that just make me feel like I will never get it and never fit in.

I have some Israeli friends, but truth be told, I feel like I"m in such a fringe group to be homeschooling/non-vaxing/generally crunchy on top of being an orthodox religious woman, and an American, that the divide is just too great, ykwim?

This is a very daycare centered culture. Not only do Israelis believe that this is pro-woman (so she can work) but that it is integrel to the development of the child. I have faced more discrimination and hurtful attacks when I answer the frequently asked question of "is your daughter in daycare/preschool yet?" in the negative. I get bombarded with stories about how important and wonderful it is and why on earth would I not want to do as everyone else is doing, cause if everyone else is doing it, it MUST be right (VERY big here in Israeli culture) but I get truly concerned "but what about her FRIENDS!??!?" I've even had the "you do know that she will NEVER be able to play with other children, do'nt you?" literally AS she was playing with naysayers said children. :eyesroll If I had a nickel/sheckel for every time someone told me that she won't be able to leave my side/make friends/play well with others I could buy my own houses in both countries and my own private jet to fly me between the two!:thumb

Anyways, I'm here.:p

[mountainspring]

:wave
I have a question for any of you...Have you felt like you were giving up some of your identity for your new country? This is something I have experienced and it came completely out of the blue, I never expected feelings like that! I found myself feeling a little resentful at times. I don't know, maybe it's just my MIL forcing Norwegian-ness down my throat! :eyesroll I guess it's part of the process... Other than that, our transition has been pretty smooth. I do love my new adopted country and I am sure I will feel better as time passes.

Nice to meet you all!

The identity crisis. Yeah...my brothers and I still struggle with that a little bit. Our dad is American, mom is Swiss. They met in Jerusalem (very randomly) and then moved to Switzerland before my oldest brother was born to take care of mom's family. So, my brothers and I were all born and raised in Switzerland until 1994 when we moved to Nebraska, USA, to take care of my father's mother who was suffering from Alzheimer's. Our ages at the time of the move were 13, 11, 9 and 7 yrs old. And even now we struggle with our identity. We are all very proud of being Swiss (we all have dual citizenship) but now that my older brother and I have both gone to High School here and married Americans, we see our Swiss Heritage slipping away a little. Since I am a SAHM, I will pass on the language to my children and some of the culture (foods, way of life, etc), but my brothers probably won't be able to pass the language down unless they really commit themselves to only speaking Swiss-German with their children.

I am 50/50 American/Swiss, but since I grew up in Switzerland it is a huge part of who I am. My husband attributes some of my "weird" ideas to my "Swiss-country-girl-ness". I blame his "weird" American ideas on his "American-city-boy-ness". It is more like a joke, but of course, I still miss Switzerland and always will no matter how much I love the USA.

It took years (about 10) for me to completely lose the resentfulness I sometimes felt toward my "new" country. You just have to accept who you are and where you live and make the best of it.

[Needle in the Hay]

I've been in Europe for 13 years.
My DH is French, my DS so far only has French citizenship and I have dual.

As for language I speak English with my DS though there are times I will speak French to him--it's never confused him. If a book is in French then I read it to DS in French.

My DH speaks French with DS and English with me. We have always lived in a French speaking place but DS' English is better than his French. He's never gone to school so I'm sure that makes a difference.

As for culture I would say my DS is totally multi-cultural. Even though he doesn't have American citizenship he considers himself to be half-American. He enjoys trips to Target and Chuck E. Cheese, his favorite candy is Nerds and he knows the schoolhouse rock songs (and a lot more american stuff but these are just a few examples). He is very close to my mom and sisters. He feels as much at home there as he does here.

[nznavo]

I wanted to quickly chime in late on the bi/tri-lingualism discussion. I am so surprised here by how many kids of non-English speaking parents speak mainly English to their parents. Of my neighbours, none of the kids speak to their parents in their (parents') native languages. French siblings speak in English to each other etc. As a parent I think I would find that very difficult - maybe you get used to it? I kind of hope there is more other language speaking that goes on at home that I'm not privvy to.

[Needle in the Hay]

nznavo,
I've noticed that a lot over here too--once the kids go to a school where only French is spoken. Those who go to some type of school where they spend at least a small portion of the schoolday in the non-local language are the ones I hear speaking to their parents in that language rather than in French. I've seen this time and time again so I do think there is something to it.

[Turkish Kate]

I'm jumping in a little late. I keep forgetting this sub-forum is here. :o

I'm an American, married to a Turk (dual citizen) and the mom of one totally American teen (from previous marriage) and one Turkish-American baby, living in Istanbul, Turkiye. We mostly speak English at home, but MIL lives with us and doesn't speak English, so there's a good amount of Turkish going on. I speak very little Turkish, and very badly for that matter, but there are some general phrases that have crept into my everyday speech (haydi = come on/let's go; yapma = don't do it). DD's Turkish level is about the same as mine and DS doesn't speak much yet, but his jibberish sounds a lot more Turkish than English. He seems to understand equal amounts of Turkish and English. DH is talking about us moving back to the US, so I'm hoping to build a network of Turkish friends who can help keep the language alive for DS (and the rest of us, too).

[ewe+lamb]

Hi and thanks for the info on the Message Group. It looks great, but I am in Lyon, which is at least 2 hours away. I did meet a couple girls when I arrived here in a young mom's group, but it is french speaking and my french is terrible still. too bad message isn't here too.

Please look up the LLL France website and find groups in your area - in fact I'm fairly sure that there is an english speaking group around you, not absolutely sure though. LLL france has a wealth of information and if you need to contact an english speaking group to find out more the Paris English Group are more than happy to help with anything you need, if you have the time before you birth then take the numbers of the hotline phone and various leaders in your area - it's always best to be prepared especially here in france!!

good luck. PM if you need any LLL info.

[ernalala]

Hi,

I consider myself as a migrant to another country.
(you named it transplant but then I get images of bloody intestines of all kinds - sorry)

I am a native Belgian raised in Belgium, who moved to Turkey to marry and live there with her Kurdish-Arabic origin husband.
We live here for almost 8 years now and have two children, aged 2 and 4. We raise them in a multi-langual and multi-cultural manner. We use the OPOL method quite strictly, I speak Dutch with them, my husband Turkish.. They are also exposed to English since my husband and I started out in English and often still have conversations in English, mixed with Turkish and Dutch. Some Kurdish comes in by my in-laws, too, but we live far from them so the Kurdish input is very very little, and merely passive. I am a SAHM at the moment, my eldest son of 4 goes to private pre-school for half a day. So he gets half of the day a Turkish 'language-cultural-food' bath, and the other half mainly the Belgian version, and evenings and weekends are mixed :-).

One of the nice things here, I find, is that breastfeeding and also long-term bf (not unusual untill 1,5-2) , is looked upon as something relatively normal, comparing to how it is perceived in Belgium. Also SAHM is more accepted in this country than in my home country nowadays, but in both countries it is less (or not) appreciated when you have a degree.

I feel both integrated (NOT assimilated and will never be nor want to even if I would ever get dual citizenship) and very much Belgian (probably that 'strange' foreign woman in the middle of the street..many people also 'know' me from hear say, sometimes when I randomly speak to someone in the neighbourhood, I get to hear 'Oh, you must be that foreign lady living next to blablabla, I've been hearing lots about you' ??? :-).
I have both positive and negative experiences being a foreigner in my new home country. And of course I do miss my other homeland and friends/family there and like to travel there once every one or two years or so, if possible, but more difficult and expensive when children involved.
We often have family from both sites visiting for a couple af weeks a time, spread over the year. Nice, but these are always stay-overs so a lot more work to do and less privacy at times. Spring-Summer-Autumn can be busy at times!

I do not know any other foreign young mothers in my area (only at the other end of town, 1h travel). So it is nice to have found this new forum at MDC to discuss some 'multicultural' topics.

Regards,

Me :bfs:1bftot:
H:love
4y old:sunshine
2m old:banana
:cat:

[EuxJai]

Hello!

Another "transplanted" mama here. Born in Czechoslovakia (or what was Czechoslovakia at that time...., now Czech Republic), moved to Algeria at age 3, moved to Switzerland at age 6 and grew up there. I then met DH and moved to Canada at age 24, where I have now been for the past 8 years.

I have dual citizenship (swiss & canadian) but consider myself Swiss. Being "canadian" is mostly an administrative thing for me. I live here so I want to partake in the political/administrative decisions of this country; but my identity is primarily swiss (eventhough I do start to feel increaseingly disconnected from the "swiss identity" as I see it in my family and swiss friends).

[merpk]

Huh. I didn't know this was here.

I guess "transplanted" works. I thought "expatriate" worked as well, since I retain my US citizenship. But :shrug






:wave




So anyway, a question:

All you transplanted mamas, have any of you dealt with a sick parent/close relative from this long distance?



My father was just diagnosed with cancer. We're not on the same continent. We don't have the money to go back and forth. Am ... flailing here.




Any experiences, advice, ruminations, suggestions, or even just plain rants, I'll take 'em all ...




:(

[Alcyone]

:hug This is something that is on my mind a lot. I was not in Denmark yet but still 1000+ miles away and too poor to travel when my grandfather died. His wife is my only remaining grandparent and although she is relatively healthy, physically, right now, she is emotionally a wreck and it is hard to only be able to write letters. (She doesn't have a computer.) I just always worry what will happen next.

[LizzyQ]

Hi Mamas.. I lurked in the ex-pat forum, and didn't realized you all moved here... So I'm subbing again, and hope I'll really be able to join you as a transplant..

DH and I still live in the US (Utah), but he is working on getting his Scuba Instructor License, and wants to move us out of the country.. somewhere.. but we have no idea where and when.

[RomanGoddess]

Hi Mamas.. I lurked in the ex-pat forum, and didn't realized you all moved here... So I'm subbing again, and hope I'll really be able to join you as a transplant..

DH and I still live in the US (Utah), but he is working on getting his Scuba Instructor License, and wants to move us out of the country.. somewhere.. but we have no idea where and when.

The Maldives?

[aussiemum]

All you transplanted mamas, have any of you dealt with a sick parent/close relative from this long distance?



My father was just diagnosed with cancer. We're not on the same continent. We don't have the money to go back and forth. Am ... flailing here.




Any experiences, advice, ruminations, suggestions, or even just plain rants, I'll take 'em all ...




:(

Merpk, I am so sorry, I have only just read this post. I wish that I had some kind of advice...... :(

With regards to contacting family, my US family & I have been enjoying Skype webcam lately- it's imperfect, but at least I can see my parents faces in real time. And I saw my 10 month old niece walk, not 2 hours after she did it for the first time. THat was pretty special- I tease my sister that my niece will think that the computer is named 'Aunty Sarah'! :lol

[jul511riv]

merpk,

Oh I[m so sorry. Please let me know if I can help at all.

We have a voice over ip phone and it just makes talkignso much easier. You can also webcam.

I'm so sorry. R"S.

[KathinJapan]

merpk,
being away from family and friends is the hardest part about living here...
no advice just hugs and sympathy and some healing vibes.
Kathryn

[Kapat]

I'm Greek, married to a Brit. I've been living in England for 16 years(almost 17) and all of us hold dual citizenship.
I don't have problems fitting in, and all my friends are English. My mum lives with me and i don't have a big family. My father passed away and my brothers live in Greece but we visit often and they visit too.

My kids are multilingual (English/Greek/Spanish/Portuguese).

[patty_g]

I guess I'm an expat/transplant combo. I am living (temporarily) in Egypt while we build a house here. My DH is Egyptian. We plan to live between here and elsewhere (right now, DH is working in Abu Dhabi). If he goes back to the US for work, we will live there about 8 months/year and here the rest. The kids are homeschooled so it makes it a lot easier. My kids are 6 (almost), 4, and 6 months (almost). The older two have never been raised in the US (Well, DS was there for about 18 months but as an infant) and yet neither speak much Arabic (lazy DH :eyesroll) and they really don't have any cultural affiliation yet. I've noticed that they aren't aware of cultural "rules" either here or in the States. They are a bit young yet though, so I expect that will change. I do kind of point out do's and don'ts so they don't make any major faux paus.

I do hope to work here once the kids are closer to their teens as a midwife but we'll see.

[expat-mama]

:wave
Can I join you? I followed a link from the expat forum...

I'm a canadian expat living with DH in Seoul, Korea. We're TTC #1 right now and VERY excited but a bit worried about starting our family journey so far from home! I don't speak much of the local language here and don't know many english speakers yet so I've found MDC to be really great so far. I haven't yet found any MDC moms in Seoul though.

DH and I plan to BF, CD/EC, AP, and cosleep and I would like as natural as birth as is possible here (so far having a rough time finding out what IS possible here). We're also into natural/organic living, and would someday like to be semi-self-sufficient on our own small farm in the sun- but we love to move around a lot, so I'm not too sure when that will happen! I love to travel, love all kinds of music, I'm into "radical politics"/anarchism, art and literature, and education (esp. language and literature pedagogy).

We won't be in big-city Seoul for long (just another year or two), we plan to move to NZ for DH to do his PhD. After that, it's anyone's guess where we'll end up or where our family's journey will lead, so it's nice to read about all of you worldly ladies raising great kids around the earth. :innocent

[expat-mama]

forgot to sub...

[dayiscoming2006]

I find this thread interesting since my hubby and I have been thinking of moving somewhere in Europe, specifically leaning toward Denmark.

My hubby is Romanian and is living with me in the US(I'm a US citizen.) We have one child as of now and are expecting another in December.

I'm going to subscribe to keep track of this thread. :)

[Christine&men]

I am German, having moved to Denver, CO for work and met a Frenchman! Yeah, I know. So, now we are married, DS 4 years old and DD 2 years. Love the sunshine, hate the way flight tickets have gone up...

[mad cow]

i have been in japan for 22 years, married for 12 with 3 kids.... they have dual nationality. I plan on being here for the long term.... never once thought of myself as an expat.... rather just a foreigner... in japan.. with a japanese family. flying back to the states this year and sick about the expense and the extra security and stress with traveling.....

[sharr610]

Im an American living in Mali, West Africa for 9 months while my husband works on his dissertation research. Love to see so many other global mamas out there!