Not sure where to post this... I could really use some support and help.

I have evolved over the past 12 years in parenting. My first 2 kids were circumsized without question for several reasons. If I'd realized I had a choice, I would have used it.

By the time DS3 was born we decided not to circumsize, but were not prepared for the doctor who scared and bullied us. Never again and obviously my DS4 has a beautifully intact penis.

But it was done to DS3, and I cannot tell you how deeply I regret this...and now he's having problems. They came to my attention 1-2 years ago but Jack is pretty private about it and FREAKS out if I try to investigate. I figured it was some irritation, so I had DH help him wash it and use some cream a couple of times, etc.

It wasn't completely healing and would keep getting irritated. So I finally got him to let me look a couple of times. It looks like he has adhesions. The skin from the shaft has healed into the sulcus/glans except for one pocket that allows things to settle inside (fuzz, soap, etc) and it's very painful for him.

Does ANYONE know anything about this and how they fix it? It's time, I can't put it off any longer as I'ver finally think I've found what is going on with him and despite how traumatized he will be from gong to the doc's it's got to be fixed. I'm assuming when he starts having erections regularly, it's going to be painful, and a gap like that is going to keep getting infected.

He is going to freak out and that's bad enough. I feel awful! But I'm afraid procedures on the area will cause more problems too.

I've heard there's a steroid cream you can use on adhesions but so far haven't heard too many positives. There's also EMLA to numb it and then they rip it open or there's surgery. Won't ripping or surgery cause scar tissue and/or sexual or other issues later? And painful recovery??

This scares me to death.

I thought maybe I'd been neglectful of care, but apparently this happens to a lot of circ'ed kids???

Science tells us that 70% of circumcised boys get adhesions, and most times they will detach by themselves.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showpost.php?p=10228313&postcount=2

However, your son is getting to the point where he is outside the normal window; that is, only 2-8% of boys have adhesions still at his age.

http://www.kidsgrowth.com/resources/adviceDetail.cfm?id=3420

If you decide not to bank on those numbers (which still seem to say they have a good chance of releasing on their own), look into release options, as it seems you have started to do. I would go with the most gentle first...I have heard trying just vaseline or a natural version of applied daily can help. If that doesn't work, I would look into releasing it with pain relief.

Also, if the adhesion involves the circumcision line, it can be more problematic and less chance it will release on its own.

However, know that, because adhesions can still occur up through 8, 9, 10 years of age, having it released may not end the problem.

I personally would wait until he is a teen before worrying about having them fixed. My dh has a skin bridge. That is what you are describing that stuff gets stuck under. Dh has to be extra careful to wash there well and get anything that is in there out or it gets really sore.

When dh went in for his vasectomy the surgen offered to "clip" the bridge dh refused. Dh feels it is a part of him and he didnt want it gone despite the fact it can get sore.

The way I see it it is his penis he should decide if he wants it done or not.

Does ANYONE know anything about this and how they fix it? It's time, I can't put it off any longer as I'ver finally think I've found what is going on with him and despite how traumatized he will be from gong to the doc's it's got to be fixed. I'm assuming when he starts having erections regularly, it's going to be painful, and a gap like that is going to keep getting infected.



Actually, there was just a major post talking about this subject, and one member gave a very good reply on the subject. "Frankly Speaking" was his/her SN.


*******
I had a question. What causes skin bridges to form on circumcised penises sometimes?*****

There are two types of adhesions. There are the ones that all boys have at birth that are formed of the synnechia or epithelial tissue, the same that bonds the fingernails to the nailbeds. These adhesions will disolve naturally with time. There are also scar adhesions that are not normal. These are a result of the circumcision wound adhering to the glans or as a result of aggressive cleaning inside the preputial space, removing the occlusive layer of smegma and an irritation or other trauma healing the foreskin to the glans. These adhesions will not self disolve and have to be released surgically.


*****
I dont really know a lot about adhesions, but I was wondering if adhesions that are left alone become skin bridges? If this is not true, then does anyone know what exactly causes them?*****

Normal adhesions will not form skin bridges. This includes post surgical adhesions after circumcision as long as the circumcision wound is not involved in the adhesion. These would not be scar adhesions if not involving the circumcision wound.

Frank

From your description, it sounds like your son has surgical adhesions. These form into skin bridges, which can range from being only cosmetically displeasing, to causing major functional/hygiene issues. I have a skin bridge, (only a cosmetic issue with myself)

If he has surgical adhesions, they will not resolve on their own, and the earlier they can be repaired, and the faster, proper healing can occur, the better.

"Frankly Speaking" seems to know a lot about this subject, and hopefully he will reply here. If not, I suggest you PM him. I cant give you too much help here, but you should talk to a doctor. BUT BE CAREFUL. Even though he is already circed, I strongly suggest finding a intactivist doctor to advise you on this issue. Only they can really lead your son on the path to having healthiest penis, and body.

I dont agree that surgical adhesions should be fixed as soon as possible unless they are causing massive pain or disfigurment. Like I said before my dh has one a he has decided to keep it. I think the owner of the penis should be the one to decide if he wants it there or not.

I dont agree that surgical adhesions should be fixed as soon as possible unless they are causing massive pain or disfigurment. Like I said before my dh has one a he has decided to keep it. I think the owner of the penis should be the one to decide if he wants it there or not.


I see your point, and generally agree with the "leave it alone" yet this is a clear complication to circumcision, and unlike the actual circumcision, reversing skin bridges that are causing problems will show obvious instant benefits. Not to mention at such a young age, repairing now will give the skin will heal the already scarred skin much better then it will later in life.

Skin bridges form by mistake, and I dont think any boy should have to experience further circumcision problems when at least that part can be fixed.

Thank you for the information everyone. Especially the stats, Carrie. I'm wondering if there's some chance this will resolve itself??

I've been reading and it seems like an almost complete reattachment of the shaft skin to the glans. That scares me. It's definitely not just a bridge. None of the skin bridge pics online shows what he has.

There's complete reattachment except for a small unattached area at the top where soap and what-not gets into. Looks like a small cave in the hillside, I guess. Hard to describe.

Sounds like full reattachment like this needs a re-circ. That kills me. Yet one thing Carrie provided said “If the skin is attached only on the very base of the glans, then your child has a very mild case of penile adhesions and you can likely just leave it alone. It should eventually separate, especially once your child becomes older, and anyway, forcing it apart would be painful.” so I am hopeful.

So I'm going to call the doc and see what she says. Maybe leave it alone until he's older to see if it resolves somehow. I don't see HOW an entire penis would. But I have the hope!

Thank you for the information everyone. Especially the stats, Carrie. I'm wondering if there's some chance this will resolve itself??

I've been reading and it seems like an almost complete reattachment of the shaft skin to the glans. That scares me. It's definitely not just a bridge. None of the skin bridge pics online shows what he has.

There's complete reattachment except for a small unattached area at the top where soap and what-not gets into. Looks like a small cave in the hillside, I guess. Hard to describe.

Sounds like full reattachment like this needs a re-circ. That kills me. Yet one thing Carrie provided said so I am hopeful.

So I'm going to call the doc and see what she says. Maybe leave it alone until he's older to see if it resolves somehow. I don't see HOW an entire penis would. But I have the hope!

There two parts to your situation. The facts of the situation, and what your going to do about them.

The fact is, if its a surgical adhesion, then it wont resolve itself. And if its adhesions on the circ scar, its more then likely surgical.

Now, once you know what those facts are, you can move on to figuring out what to do. This is the harder part, whats up for debate. We will say different things, so will your doctor, and so will your own thoughts. Good luck, and I hope your doctor can help you figure all this out.

I am so glad I saw this. I too didn't know better with my first 2 sons, but ds3 is intact. Ds2 has an adhesion (my ped pointed it out). She rec steroid cream saying it will become a problem as he gets older as it will hurt when he has erections. I have been putting it off hoping it would resolve itself. It's not changed in any way. I had planned to fill the script for the cream. Has anyone used this solution? Did it work? Any negatives? TIA.

Actually, there was just a major post talking about this subject, and one member gave a very good reply on the subject. "Frankly Speaking" was his/her SN.

Thanks for doing a lot of my work for me!


From your description, it sounds like your son has surgical adhesions. These form into skin bridges, which can range from being only cosmetically displeasing, to causing major functional/hygiene issues. I have a skin bridge, (only a cosmetic issue with myself)

If he has surgical adhesions, they will not resolve on their own, and the earlier they can be repaired, and the faster, proper healing can occur, the better.

"Frankly Speaking" seems to know a lot about this subject, and hopefully he will reply here. If not, I suggest you PM him. I cant give you too much help here, but you should talk to a doctor. BUT BE CAREFUL. Even though he is already circed, I strongly suggest finding a intactivist doctor to advise you on this issue. Only they can really lead your son on the path to having healthiest penis, and body.

This sounds like it may be beyond me to give advice too. It sounds like the surgical scar has healed to the glans and has done so almost all the way around. As so, it is not a simple matter.

Normally, after a circumcision, there will be a band of mucosal skin between the glans and the normal shaft skin. From the description provided, it does not seem to be the case with this child and if that is the case, it will be more than just lysing. (cutting these adhesions apart) Normally, these cases are handled in the pediatricians office but this case seems to require a specialist. For the best cosmetic results, I would be looking for a cosmetic plastic surgeon.

I dont agree that surgical adhesions should be fixed as soon as possible unless they are causing massive pain or disfigurment.

It does appear from the discription that this case is causing pain and will cause significant disfigurement. Normal adhesions are something that do not require treatment but surgical adhesions do require treatment. It's really a matter of determining whether they are normal epithelial adhesions or scar tissue adhesions. Even if they are scar adhesions, I don't recommend correcting them during infancy but it is entirely appropriate to treat them later. It appears this child is about 6 years old and that is old enough.


Thank you for the information everyone. Especially the stats, Carrie. I'm wondering if there's some chance this will resolve itself??

It depends. If you can see any of the band of mucosal or "different" skin outside, these are just normal adhesions and are almost certain to self resolve. But, if it appears that the shaft skin goes all the way to the glans and none of the mucosal skin is visible, the chances of it self resolving are almost nil.

I've been reading and it seems like an almost complete reattachment of the shaft skin to the glans.

This is what I fear. This makes it sound like a scar tissue adhesion.

Sounds like full reattachment like this needs a re-circ. That kills me.

The procedure would be very similar to a re-circumcision but what you want is for the mucosal skin below the glans to be exposed. This is very sexually sensitive skin and very important for your son's future sex life and you want to preserve it. The procedure would involve cutting the scar adhesion to unfold the folded mucosal tissue. The procedure itself will result in scars forming and this is the reason I recommended you consult a cosmetic plastic surgeon. They are trained and practiced at minimizing scars while a urologist or pediatrician would most likely leave substantial visible scars.


I am so glad I saw this. I too didn't know better with my first 2 sons, but ds3 is intact. Ds2 has an adhesion (my ped pointed it out). She rec steroid cream saying it will become a problem as he gets older as it will hurt when he has erections. I have been putting it off hoping it would resolve itself. It's not changed in any way. I had planned to fill the script for the cream. Has anyone used this solution? Did it work? Any negatives? TIA.

It depends on whether your son has normal epithelial adhesions or scar tissue adhesions. If you can see any of the inner foreskin remnant distal to the adhesion, it is an epithelial adhesion and will resolve on it's own. If the normal outside shaft skin goes all the way to the adhesion, it's most likely a scar adhesion.

The steriod cream (betamethesone) will not do anything for this situation. If it is a normal epithelial adhesion, it will normally self resolve between 3 and 5 years old. However, it is common for there to be pain associated with these normal adhesions and the pain may persist for several years. It is not severe pain but distracting never the less. The pain will eventually abate but it may take several years.

The steroid cream is only recommended for short term use as there can be side effects in long term use.



Frank

Frank= thanks for responding. My ds is 7. His adhesion is not all the way around just a small area on the top portion. It looks like a small bit of foreskin is 'stuck' to the head of his penis. Does that extra info help with any advice you have?

zj,
That sounds like a skin bridge. I looked those up yesterday on Google. This link goes to an enter page http://www.circumstitions.com/Botched1.html and when you enter there are pictures of skin bridges. So don't have kids or coworkers around you! :o

Frank,
Thanks for all the info! Inside "the cave" I described is what would be the mucosal skin. But the rest seems to be folded over and the bottom of the mucosal at the scar line is what's attached to the glans. I would have to look again to confirm... and he doesn't like that. But I'll look beforee we go to the doc's.

I'm glad you said something about preserving the mucosal for his future. I will be sure to discuss this with doc(s) before anything is done.

What I wouldn't give for just a simple skin bridge... This is all....:angry

Frank= thanks for responding. My ds is 7. His adhesion is not all the way around just a small area on the top portion. It looks like a small bit of foreskin is 'stuck' to the head of his penis. Does that extra info help with any advice you have?

Yes, you can go to the post above and follow the link to see the adult version of skin bridges and make your decision from that point. These bridges can cause pain and embarassment to the adult man depending on how severe they are. They can be released but if not done properly, can cause considerable scarring and a very cosmetically unappealing outcome. As above, you might want to consult a cosmetic plastic surgeon about the procedure as the are trained and practiced at getting the best cosmetic result and leaving minimal scarring.


Frank

zj,
That sounds like a skin bridge. I looked those up yesterday on Google. This link goes to an enter page http://www.circumstitions.com/Botched1.html and when you enter there are pictures of skin bridges. So don't have kids or coworkers around you! :o

Frank,
Thanks for all the info! Inside "the cave" I described is what would be the mucosal skin.

Yes, exactly.


But the rest seems to be folded over and the bottom of the mucosal at the scar line is what's attached to the glans. I would have to look again to confirm... and he doesn't like that. But I'll look beforee we go to the doc's.

From what you wrote in post #7, it appears that the circumcision scar has healed to the glans and that would mean the adhesions are scar adhesions and will not resolve on their own.


I'm glad you said something about preserving the mucosal for his future. I will be sure to discuss this with doc(s) before anything is done.

Yes, very important! Many doctors doing circumcisions or corrections of circumcision complications will remove as much of the mucosal skin as possible thinking this is the most attractive end result. But, it removes significantly sexually sensitive skin and also removes any remnant of the frenular delta which has been characterized as the male clitoris. There is some argument about this with some research saying that circumcision completely disables the frenular delta and others saying that some men have some residual function. I know I have absolutely no residual function at all left but some men have told me that it is the most sensitive part of their penis. Either way, I would try to save as much of this area as possible, just in case.

What I wouldn't give for just a simple skin bridge... This is all....:angry

Or a complete re-play of the entire circumcision episode! You're in a group of millions of mothers. That's why it is so vitally important to get the message out to all mothers. There are so many innocents just like you out there.


Frank

OP= I promise I am not trying to 'hijack' your thread! Such good info here. I just cannot tell you all how awful I feel for letting my first 2 get circed:(. If only I had known. I am SO glad I pushed it with ds3 and he IS intact.

I went and looked at my ds adhesion last night. It does appear to be more of a bridge. I am also remembering that he has complained that his penis hurt. I am guessing it was the adhesion. If it is hurting him does that mean it needs to be surgically fixed? My ped indicated the steroid cream could thin the skin making the adhesion easier to 'unstick'. Please forgive my un-medical words. Is this info wrong? She is typically pretty good and does not give scripts lightly. babe waking.
tia

I went and looked at my ds adhesion last night. It does appear to be more of a bridge. I am also remembering that he has complained that his penis hurt. I am guessing it was the adhesion. If it is hurting him does that mean it needs to be surgically fixed?

This is where we get beyond the capabilities of the internet. Not knowing exactly what the pain is and not knowing what the adhesion/bridge is, I can't say that it will either help or not help, whether or not the situation is significant enough to address and whether a surgical fix would accomplish the desired results. I have a similar situation, something similar to a bridge but different. I experience pain after intercourse occasionally. The pain is often severe enough to keep me awake the rest of the night and that makes for a rough day the next day. But, it is not frequent enough that I'm going to address it and it's not severe enough that I'm going to address it. I'm just going to continue to be a very angry man every time it happens because I know it was because of an unnecessary procedure that did nothing positive for me. Think of it as a corn on my toe that hurts only one day every 3 to 4 months. Do I go in for surgery to remove it or do I just live with the pain for that one day?


My ped indicated the steroid cream could thin the skin making the adhesion easier to 'unstick'. Please forgive my un-medical words. Is this info wrong? She is typically pretty good and does not give scripts lightly. babe waking.
tia

Here again, we are going beyond the capabilities of the internet. The most commonly prescribed medication for this is betamethesone but it will not release scar adhesions, those are only released surgically. It is used for skin expansion and I don't see how that could benefit your son. Also skin expansion requires some tension to be applied continiously over a period of weeks or months and I don't see how this could be accomplished in a child. Now, if your son was a teenager or an adult, I suppose it could be accomplished but it would be difficult at the best. If you could find out from her what the steroid is that she plans to prescribe and how she expects it to work, maybe I can provide more information. I suspect the adhesion will have to be released surgically in the end though.


Frank

The cream is hydrocortisone 2.5% to be used for 3 weeks. The thought of putting him through surgery makes me sick to my stomach. I am thinking of trying the cream as I don't see how it could be as bad as being cut. I had NO idea adhesions could and do occur. Why why why don't they tell you this when before the do the procedure. Why why why did I let my dh talk me into with my first 2. ohh the regret.

Why why why did I let my dh talk me into with my first 2. ohh the regret.

:hug :hug

I looked again for just a moment.. so hard to see because he doesn't want it touched and you really need to pull back the skin. But I think I can see the mucosal line so it's not attached from the scar like I thought. I think. *sigh*

I'll make the doc's appointment and we'll give it a better check then. See where it goes.

I had NO idea adhesions could and do occur. Why why why don't they tell you this when before the do the procedure.

Have you considered contacting David J. Llewellyn to see if you can sue?

Insurance companies sending out letters to insureds telling them how to behave can change how doctors run their practices.

I had NO idea adhesions could and do occur. Why why why don't they tell you this when before the do the procedure. Why why why did I let my dh talk me into with my first 2. ohh the regret.


You have to realize that the vast majority of male circumcisions are done by OB/GYNs who are specialists in the female genitalia and reproductive system. (1) They have little reason to become familiar with male genitalia. (2) Their only function for a male is to cut him up as soon as he is born. (3) They never get to see the end results of what they have done. (4) They don't see all the problems they cause. (5) Because they don't hear of the problems, they assume all of their little patients are problem free. (6) For them to educate parents of all the issues would take a considerable time with each parent and they get paid on a flat rate basis. The less time they take with each patient, the more money they make. (7) Many have a great fear that if they say anything negative about circumcision, they will lose patients who pay their salaries, thus you get information that really doesn't tell you anything. They try very hard to present a neutral face and that means confusing information or no information at all. (8) Finally, they see meatal stenosis, adhesions, etc. as very minor problems that they can address with surgery and think all is well. They just don't understand how mothers agonize about these problems.

Understand??? If so, I betcha don't like it!


Frank

actually, makes me feel quite sick. I educated myself on all areas of birthing and read many books on taking care of children, attended LL meetings, etc. I/we did not enter parenting lightly, yet we failed on this one seemingly simple area. Those parents who 'get it' with their first I am so jealous. Again, so glad ds3 is 'whole'.

Ds2's bridge appears pretty thin so I am thinking (hoping) the cream will allow him to detach it. I'll let you all know if it works.

GinaRae - I hope you are able to get the answers/help you need. Offering a cyber hug.

As far as contacting a lawyer....that is just not something I had thought of and really we are not big believers in suing. I am just not sure it's something I want to persue. Maybe we'll change our minds later, but it has been 7 1/2 years!

actually, makes me feel quite sick. I educated myself on all areas of birthing and read many books on taking care of children, attended LL meetings, etc. I/we did not enter parenting lightly, yet we failed on this one seemingly simple area. Those parents who 'get it' with their first I am so jealous. Again, so glad ds3 is 'whole'.


It's not surprising at all. When all you have been exposed to in men and boys is the circumcised penis and with all the myths about circumcision preventing problems instead of causing them and when the doctor is standing there ready to do it, it is not unusual that you would not see any red flags.


Ds2's bridge appears pretty thin so I am thinking (hoping) the cream will allow him to detach it. I'll let you all know if it works.


Please do! I will be very interested in hearing if it works. BTW, how long did the doctor tell you to use it?


As far as contacting a lawyer....that is just not something I had thought of and really we are not big believers in suing. I am just not sure it's something I want to persue. Maybe we'll change our minds later, but it has been 7 1/2 years!


At 7.5 years, most likely the statute of limitations has run out for you anyway. Most states have limits of 2 - 3 years that legal action can be brought. But, your son will have a shot at that doctor when he turns 18. Again, he will have a statute of limitations limiting the time he has to bring suit, usually 2 - 3 years from his 18th birthday. If he should want to bring action, it should start well before his 18th birthday, maybe 6 months before his birthday.



Frank

hey I know what you guys are talking about. I'm not a mother, I'm 15 and i have a skin bridge like the ones in the link previously posted. and i've always been embarrassed and always had a low self esteem around the girls and i dont want my shyness to continue. Is there any way that you can get rid of skin bridges without consulting your parents? like a homemade cream, or anything. i would hate to resort to cutting it. The width of the bridge is little bigger than a centimeter. theres no white puss or anything coming out, its actually clean and theres no pain when i get erections (the adhesion is too big for it stretch out and hurt) but i want to get rid of it asap.

At 7.5 years, most likely the statute of limitations has run out for you anyway. Most states have limits of 2 - 3 years that legal action can be brought. But, your son will have a shot at that doctor when he turns 18. Again, he will have a statute of limitations limiting the time he has to bring suit, usually 2 - 3 years from his 18th birthday. If he should want to bring action, it should start well before his 18th birthday, maybe 6 months before his birthday.


I believe statute does not start running until the medical malpractice is discovered. I believe it is 2 years from that point. Call Llewellyn.

Frankly Speaking - thanks so much for all your info and insight. The Dr rec the cream for 3 weeks. I have talked to my son about using it and what it's for. He's fine with doing that and not the least bit shy about it which is nice.

You are also right about being only exposed to circed men. At the time of ds1's birth I really didn't know any men who were not circed. I HATED sending him off for the procedure but thought it was the only choice. So glad people are raising awareness about this issue now.

I noticed from your username you are in Ga.....we are too!

GinaRae- I really fell as though I have 'stoled' your thread and I am sorry! But thanks for letting me tag along. I really needed the info.

hey I know what you guys are talking about. I'm not a mother, I'm 15 and i have a skin bridge like the ones in the link previously posted. and i've always been embarrassed and always had a low self esteem around the girls and i dont want my shyness to continue. Is there any way that you can get rid of skin bridges without consulting your parents? like a homemade cream, or anything. i would hate to resort to cutting it. The width of the bridge is little bigger than a centimeter. theres no white puss or anything coming out, its actually clean and theres no pain when i get erections (the adhesion is too big for it stretch out and hurt) but i want to get rid of it asap.


You shouldn't have low self esteem about this. This was not your fault and obviously, you are not the only one to have it. The really important part is about 2.5' to 3' above your penis.

But, I can understand you wanting to correct this. However, this is not a do-it-yourself project. It will require professional medical intervention in an in-office procedure. It will not be painful, fully effective anesthetics are available and aftercare pain management is available for the asking. The healing time will be a couple of weeks and it will not hinder you unless you are already sexually active.

This is not a sexual issue but a health and body image issue. As such, you should not be hesitant to ask your parents for help any more than you should be hesitant to ask their help for any other health issue. However, if you just can't get past it, less than 3 years is really a short time until you can handle it in complete confidentiality when you turn 18.

The issue can be addressed with your parents. I would address it something as follows:

"Mom and Dad, There is a problem with my penis and through the internet, I've discovered there is a simple medical solution. I want your help in taking care of this.

The problem is called a skin bridge. It is where my circumcision wound healed to the head of my penis. The solution is to have it surgically released. This is an in-office (outpatient) procedure. My understanding is that this is best performed by a cosmetic plastic surgeon and I would like to set up an appointment for an examination."

What are they going to say? "Of course son. We'll check it out tomorrow" I suspect.

Of course, I hope you realize this won't cure your shyness about girls. They are such intimidating creatures and for good reason! LOL! I think all men have some shyness about women. You'll only replace the reason for your shyness with some other reason.


Frank

I believe statute does not start running until the medical malpractice is discovered. I believe it is 2 years from that point. Call Llewellyn.


You are correct in the case of a few states. Thanks for bringing that up! In most cases and states, the statute of limitations begins for the parents with the circumcision and for the men at age 18. In the states that have a discovery clause, legal action can begin anytime up to a period after discovery.

Frank

Frankly Speaking - I noticed from your username you are in Ga.....we are too!


Yup, I've got a home in the North Atlanta area and another about an hour north of Atlanta. Lately, it seems I'm spending all my time at the country place. Atlanta traffic is such a hassle and everything seems to take such a drive!

I'm working on another issue that is totally unrelated to circumcision and is Georgia specific. I'm sending you a PM about it. Any other Georgians here?


Frank

GinaRae- I really fell as though I have 'stoled' your thread and I am sorry! But thanks for letting me tag along. I really needed the info.

I am SO not the kind to worry about that, believe me!! Good luck.