Because I do.:eyesroll My brother just told me that I should "step out of my comfort zone" sometimes.....and drive 5 hours in one day with my dd who hates the car (cries the whole time) to coem to his rehearsal dinner next week in a different state. He also alerted me that *other* people do it every day. Thanks.

Sorry, but I had to vent. I'm not crazy right?:irked:

Your brother is so ridiculous. Parenting automatically throws you thousands of miles from your "comfort zone". Besides not wanting to take a 5 hour car ride isn't as much about your comfort as it is about the baby's comfort. I would not want t o drive for 5 hours with a screaming baby either, but I would be more concerned with the effect on the baby of having to scream for 5 hours. I think if it was me I'd just say, "Yeah, I used to think I knew everything before I had kids too"

Nope, you're not crazy.

"Stepping out of your comfort zone" would mean driving half an hour with a baby who hates the car, not 5 hours!

Sure, other people can handle long car trips with babies- but some babies love long car rides!

Your brother is being unrealistic and self-centered about this particular situation. That does NOT mean that "parenting advice from non parents" is always bad. If he had kids of his own, who happened to have loved long car rides, it's likely he would have been just as unrealistic and self-centered about this situation. Plus there are other non-parents who would have been perfectly understanding about why you couldn't make it.

When I was planning my first wedding, before having kids (but definitely thinking about TTC) I wouldn't have acted like that!

Other people drive 5 hours a day with a screaming child EVERY DAY? I bet they have some good quality ear plugs to be able to do that.

Yes, that stuff drives me crazy, too. My mom doesn't understand why I limit my trips to her house. And she is a parent! She just never had to travel with young kids so she doesn't "get it".

Uhh no that's crazy! My girls are very happy in the car and we have only done trips that long about once a year. If they screamed the whole way there is NO WAY I would do it. We are going to the beach which is 5 hours away in August the last time we went my girls were 2 1/2 and 3 months old and it went VERY smoothly surprisingly. I am very worried this time though lol. I went to my IL's house for mothers day weekend and my 10 month old didn't do so great. We may plan to leave at like 7pm which is a little bit before their bedtime so they will sleep most of the way. If you really want to go (which I wouldn't after that comment) would that be an option?

Oh, thanks. I needed reassurance here. My brother is very self centered in general, but it still caught me off guard. I just said to him over and over that I'm not *that* type of parent. He told me that she would eventually fall asleep after crying that long.:( I told him he might understand more when he has his own children.
I can't go around her naps or bed time either, because it's rush hour if I did that, and to get off of Long Island would be torture. Thanks mamas.:D

LOL. I would rather submit myself to a 5 hour root canal than try that with my DD. Even if she managed to fall asleep on the way there, that would mean she definitely wouldn't sleep on the way back! ridiculous. I can't go anywhere further than an hour- TOPS, unless it's the middle of the night.

Remind him of this when he has a toddler ;)

Actually, I am pretty sure that there ARE lots of people who would do that for a rehearsal dinner. :)

And then, they'd be remembered as the snippy couple with the screaming, grumpy kids, who had to get up and leave the rehearsal dinner (or worse, didn't) when the whole family's stress-induced behavior started to spiral downward!

I wouldn't get hung up on the injustice of non-parents offering advice. It's done all the time. Even the "Continuum Concept" was written by, you guessed it, a non-parent. :)

Personally, I would have laughed out out, and told my brother "Dude, after 5 hours in the car with screaming kids, you don't WANT me at the rehearsal dinner. I'll have hair, all grey, like the bride of Frankenstine, the kids will probably be pukey and gassy from all the screaming, and won't be able to speak because I'd have had to bite off my tongue to keep from being super bitchy to the first person to make some sort of comment that my stress addled brain perceived as snide. I'll miss being there (hey, I'm not opposed to a little white lying, personally), how about if I just owe you a dinner out with your new bride when y'all come to visit?"

People want what they want. It's obvious he probably really wants YOU there, so that's why he's fussing and saying those things. You know better, as to how much you'll really be able to enjoy and celebrate his marriage when you will have to endure 5 hours of sheer hell to get there. I'd let what he says go. He's just disappointed to not have you there, that's not a bad thing is it? You can still feel good about doing the right thing for your kids.

And just take him and his wife out to dinner next time they're out your way. Or start pestering them to babysit. ;>

I told him he might understand more when he has his old children.


That is so true! It is torture to listen to your kid cry in the car constantly. I seriously cannot handle it.

I don't think his point of view is necessarily because he doesn't have children. I know parents who think that way. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the grandparents think this way.

. He told me that she would eventually fall asleep after crying that long.:( I told him he might understand more when he has his own children.


My dd, who is an "ok" traveler, once cried for 5.5 hours in the car....all.the.way. DH was driving and I tried *everything* to get her to stop. I was *exhausted* when I arrived at my destination point, and she promptly fell asleep.

People who give parenting advice and are not parents themselves are talking pure smack, IMO. This is one of the reasons that I will never choose doctors, dentists, etc. for my children if the provider isn't a parent to children of their own.

I don't think his point of view is necessarily because he doesn't have children. I know parents who think that way. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the grandparents think this way.

This is true. My own mother told me it was ok to let my dc's CIO...... :(

send him a little something. is there a place that will deliver a bottle of wine or something? send a note that says thank you so much for wanting us there. sorry we couldn't make it. please enjoy this for us.

if it doesn't truly soften him and make him thankful to have a sister who cares so much then he can't complain because who could complain about that?!

I get that from my inlaws.

my mil told us that it's easier for us "young kids" to come and see her with the hate-to-ride toddler than it would be for her to ride to see us. (there is nothing wrong with her, and she doesn't work.)

my fil (they are divorced) told my husband he was trifling for not driving up there to see him more often. Er....he lives about 3 states away. Plus he's not likable or nice enough to want go that out of the way with getting off work and packing up the kid to go and see him. I mean who wants to visit you after you've just called them trifling?

my sil once told us that taking care of a 3 month old was not "that hard". And that she knew more about babies than my husband did. then we stayed with her. she hasn't opened her mouth since.


and she was right. taking care of a 3 month old was much easier than taking care of a 2 year old, in my perspective. of course, to her perspective now, it's all hard.

I actually find older parents (as in their children already are adults) to be worse than non-parents. Perhaps it's because with people who aren't parents, I can always remind myself that they don't quite get it because they don't have kids. With people who've already raised theirs, I always end up feeling sorry for their kids.

Other people drive 5 hours a day with a screaming child EVERY DAY? I bet they have some good quality ear plugs to be able to do that.

Yes, that stuff drives me crazy, too. My mom doesn't understand why I limit my trips to her house. And she is a parent! She just never had to travel with young kids so she doesn't "get it".

LOL amen. The worst advice I get is always from fellow parents WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER. :irked: OP, sorry about your bro. Just remember it might come back around to him someday:wink

I don't believe I've ever gotten parenting advice from non-parents. Or if I have, I haven't noticed :lol My child-free younger brother watches my kids for me sometimes and never tries to give me any advice, he just tries to give my kids back as fast as he can :lol

I get really frustrated by parenting advice from people who have never been parents.

I'm not saying that it is impossible to learn something valuable from a person who has never had direct experience with a certain situation--because sometimes an outside perspective can help you get a new take on something--but to be told how I should parent by a person who has never had the wonderful challenge of raising a child really just flies all over me in all the wrong ways.

I totally hear you.

My friend was that way when dd was born. Would say stuff like "when I have a kid I will for sure let them cry it out" and "just cause I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't know anything about being a parent" Ummmm... yes actually it does mean you know nothing.

My friend was that way when dd was born. Would say stuff like "when I have a kid I will for sure let them cry it out" and "just cause I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't know anything about being a parent" Ummmm... yes actually it does mean you know nothing.

I have to respectfully disagree that not being a parent means you know NOTHING about parenting. I have no carried a child to term but I have been a nanny for 20 years, have a degree in ECE and extensive training, have taught parenting classes, have at various times taken custody of THREE different children of friends, am a GAL (guardian ad litem), care for at least 2 babies daily (who wear CD's in MY house). I may not have given birth (therefore not a parent) but I know a LOT more than many of the parents I know. Many of them regularly ask ME for advice. Fortunately they don't think I'm totally ignorant just because I have not given birth.

[/B]

I have to respectfully disagree that not being a parent means you know NOTHING about parenting. I have no carried a child to term but I have been a nanny for 20 years, have a degree in ECE and extensive training, have taught parenting classes, have at various times taken custody of THREE different children of friends, am a GAL (guardian ad litem), care for at least 2 babies daily (who wear CD's in MY house). I may not have given birth (therefore not a parent) but I know a LOT more than many of the parents I know. Many of them regularly ask ME for advice. Fortunately they don't think I'm totally ignorant just because I have not given birth.

I did that too (well, except for I was never a GAL, I did do emergency respite care fostering though).

Guess what?

Parenting is way different.

I'll grant you that you're definitely more used to the mechanics of things. However, when you are actually a parent, it totally changes things. And I really wish that I had known that while looking down a bunch of other parents all those years--as well as getting frustrated when my advice didn't work as well for them.

Kids behave differently around their parents. You don't have a light at the end of the tunnel when you're a parent.

So yes, I agree that people who are not parents can and do give good technical advice...but I think that they cannot honestly feel the kind of empathy of parenthood that someone who has felt the rage has. :)

Also, you don't need to have actually given birth to be a parent, FWIW. For whatever mystical reason, I have found that most of the adoptive parents I know feel that same rush as bio kids do.

It's always different by necessity and even somewhat subconsciously (IMO) when you know they're not really yours, than it is when they are YOURS. And the kids know it too, and therefore tend to act differently.

Waaaay off on a tangent here though.

Some of the kids that are "not really mine" have been in my care 24/7 for months at a time. One called me "mama" and we were planning to adopt her (The bio father reappeared).

I agree there is a difference between being a parent and knowing about parenting but I know plenty of parents that don't have a clue.

I'm just saying you should not instantly discount someones parenting advice because they do not have a child. Otherwise I would not have talked many parents OUT of circumcising and INTO breast feeding!

To the OP tho, your brother is clueless about traveling with a babe who hates traveling. Do what you are comfortable with!

:treehugger:

Thanks for posting this thread. Sometimes non-parent comments roll off my back, sometimes they drive me nuts. I think more depends on the person sputtering the nonsense, and their intention. Sometimes I am able to step back and remember all the idiotic comments I made pre-kids, and that helps me realize that person talking now is just trying to help out in their own way.

What drives me really batty though, is the harsh judgements, even here on MDC, by people who have no kids. People who write long emails about how awful this or that parent was, or how they saw something in a public area for 5 minutes and that parent must be the devil incarnate. Umm, get off your keyboard and become a parent and be humbled by it. Then frankly, I am more willing to feel compassion for your successes and your sorrows.

Hmm I guess I had better STOP advising people to reconsider routine circumcision , and STOP telling them that "breast is best" and STOP telling them they there are kinder alternatives to CIO. Guess I'd also better let all the parents who routinely ASK for my advice know that it turns out that I KNOW NOTHING and they may as well go pick up a copy of "Train up your child" because after all the PEARL'S are PARENTS so they must know EVERYTHING and since my uterus has defied me I know NOTHING.

I really thought MDCers were more open minded than to think people who don't have children can't possibly know anything about parenting!

Just because the children I raised weren't "mine" does no mean I don't know anything about parenting. Most them spend more time with ME than there so called "parents"!

Umm, get off your keyboard and become a parent and be humbled by it.

That's really harsh. If women are on MDC who are not yet mothers, they are likely trying to conceive and having difficulty with it. EarthmamatoBe has stated in this thread she has carried no child to term, meaning she's had miscarriages. You may not know what it's like to deal with infertility and may not realize how mean-spirited your above quote sounds.
Anyway, harsh judgments aren't too fun no matter who they come from, why pick on those whose hearts are aching to become mothers?

i take advice on how to help kids out with specific things from anyone. i've gotten great ideas from my childless friends. i take "parenting advice", advice about how to handle large issues of family management or tweaking my parenting philosophy almost exclusively from other parents or those who have had a large hand in raising children like nannies and such.

the advice that the brother gave has the flavor of "all children like X" "all children have x needs" that's what i take issue with. i don't think people without children know nothing. i think that many of them do not know something that people in the thick of the parenting experience can't escape. the only thing that all children everywhere have in common is the need/want for air, water and food. actuially not all children even like food. stop by the SN forum or my house for the night. i get that kind of advice from non parents more than parents but you do run into those who think their children's minds and bodies are mass produced modular items.

if i get advice that contains the phrase "all children ...X" i tune out. it's condescending (you have kids and you didn't know they all X) and useless (all children do not x so anything based on that premise is bound to be flawed).

I used to live there... beautiful town. I'm adding my two cents' worth here:

I gave great advice for decades before I had my own child. I was the eldest girl in a LAAARGE family, which provided a lot of training. Not that I think one needs ANY training to be a natural parent.

Re the self-centered brother of the OP: you know, even if your child LOVES riding in cars, a five-hour drive is a HUGE undertaking even if you're doing it with adults only, or just by yourself. Five hours... that's a lot of $$$ GAS $$$. And to have to drive all that way and then be "on" for a big party, and be facing a five hour return trip, even if it's the next DAY, is a LOT.

And the "step out of your comfort zone" remark--what a broadside. That was insulting, disrespectful and manipulative. I'd have been offended, too. If you do end up going, I hope it's because there is some other more alluring invitation involved.

VF

I didn't mean to start a heated debate. I do think that there are folks out there that definitely know a thing or two about parenting.:wink

My brother is farthest from that group however. I should clarify, that the trip is 2-3 hours each way, so 5-6 hours total. He also lives here, by me, it's just his wedding that's in a different state.

I just can't get his comments out of my head.

Off topic: Needle in the hay nd EarthMomma2Be, I was not specifically referring to you!! And I was adopted, and never said being a parent meant giving birth. Maybe someone else wrote that?

Sorry if my mail sounded harsh, but I do think parenting is very humbling. You come in with all sorts of expectations and ideals, and find out 50% you were on track, 25% you didn't know better, and 25% just does not apply to you or your DC! OK, maybe you were 90% right, I don't know, I can only speak for myself. But yes, it can be annoying when people who don't have kids give parenting advice. And yes, sometimes part of it is because they don't have kids to base their "advice" on.

OK, maybe you were 90% right, I don't know, I can only speak for myself.

:) Haha, no not at all! I had a lot of ideas that I totally don't agree with now (such as no lying down with a child, at most, sit by their bed in a chair until they fall asleep--or if they aren't well-behaved when you take them somewhere, the next time they stay with a babysitter!), but another thing that I hadn't planned on was secondary infertility. So I guess I can just really empathize with earthmamatobe even though I do have a child. And I really wasn't feeling that you were trying to hurt anyone, I only wanted to point out that it could come across as really hurtful to someone who's struggling with infertility.

I have an online friend who is a nanny and I often turn to her for advice because she is very well educated on numerous parenting subjects and has experience with a wide age range of kids. I'd much rather get advice from her than one of the "Oh, just let them cry until they puke, that's how I got mine sleeping through the night" mommy crowd.

Hmm I guess I had better STOP advising people to reconsider routine circumcision , and STOP telling them that "breast is best" and STOP telling them they there are kinder alternatives to CIO. Guess I'd also better let all the parents who routinely ASK for my advice know that it turns out that I KNOW NOTHING and they may as well go pick up a copy of "Train up your child" because after all the PEARL'S are PARENTS so they must know EVERYTHING and since my uterus has defied me I know NOTHING.

I really thought MDCers were more open minded than to think people who don't have children can't possibly know anything about parenting!

Just because the children I raised weren't "mine" does no mean I don't know anything about parenting. Most them spend more time with ME than there so called "parents"!


I feel ya earthmama.... before I had a baby everyone was always "wait until you have him, you wont feel that way" or "you'll see" or "when its yours its different" but I really find it to be what I expected. What did I expect? to be up all night, to not have time to myself, to have to learn to do things with one hand, to have sore cracked nipples, to have to change my clothes a hundred times a day, to be pooped on, peed on, puked on, to have to listen to him cry and cry sometimes and not be able to do anything to stop it.... and I am loving all of it. Now that he's here, I get the same type of comments, but now they have turned to "you must have an easy baby" or "is he colicky or high needs?" or "wait until he starts crawling" bla bla bla. sometimes you know what to expect and sometimes you don't. the people who dont tend to assume that everyone must have felt how they did for some reason.

I didn't mean to start a heated debate. I do think that there are folks out there that definitely know a thing or two about parenting.:wink

My brother is farthest from that group however. I should clarify, that the trip is 2-3 hours each way, so 5-6 hours total. He also lives here, by me, it's just his wedding that's in a different state.

I just can't get his comments out of my head.

It's okay Mama! Debate is good for you! Your brother is being insensitive although he probably doesn't know better. I would suspect he just wants you there and did not choose his words carefully AND since you are his Sis he is probably used to saying whatever pops into his head (my BIL is like this since I've known him since he was 3).

Tell him you are sorry but your "comfort zone" is not the one you are concerned with it's your child's.

Sorry I hijacked your thread!:o

I feel ya earthmama.... before I had a baby everyone was always "wait until you have him, you wont feel that way" or "you'll see" or "when its yours its different" but I really find it to be what I expected. What did I expect? to be up all night, to not have time to myself, to have to learn to do things with one hand, to have sore cracked nipples, to have to change my clothes a hundred times a day, to be pooped on, peed on, puked on, to have to listen to him cry and cry sometimes and not be able to do anything to stop it.... and I am loving all of it. Now that he's here, I get the same type of comments, but now they have turned to "you must have an easy baby" or "is he colicky or high needs?" or "wait until he starts crawling" bla bla bla. sometimes you know what to expect and sometimes you don't. the people who dont tend to assume that everyone must have felt how they did for some reason.

Yeah! And since my sis and brother are 12 and 16 years younger than I am I got a good bit of practical experience before I ever left home! Honestly I've been up all night with crying babies that weren't "mine". If you can do that without going crazy then when you do have a biological attachment I would think it would be EASIER to still love them in the morning! :rotflmao

Off topic: Needle in the hay nd EarthMomma2Be, I was not specifically referring to you!! And I was adopted, and never said being a parent meant giving birth. Maybe someone else wrote that?

Sorry if my mail sounded harsh, but I do think parenting is very humbling. You come in with all sorts of expectations and ideals, and find out 50% you were on track, 25% you didn't know better, and 25% just does not apply to you or your DC! OK, maybe you were 90% right, I don't know, I can only speak for myself. But yes, it can be annoying when people who don't have kids give parenting advice. And yes, sometimes part of it is because they don't have kids to base their "advice" on.I remember being told I'd change my parenting ideas once I had a baby, but I parent the way I planned to parent.

I was told by parents that I would regret co-sleeping and carrying my baby so much. I was told that I'd understand better once I had a child of my own.

People cling to their stereotype that non-parents are clueless, but, honestly, most parents sound clueless most of the time, probably because they often are just flying by the seat of their pants.

I remember being told I'd change my parenting ideas once I had a baby, but I parent the way I planned to parent.

I was told by parents that I would regret co-sleeping and carrying my baby so much. I was told that I'd understand better once I had a child of my own.

People cling to their stereotype that non-parents are clueless, but, honestly, most parents sound clueless most of the time, probably because they often are just flying by the seat of their pants.

Ok I know I'm commenting this thread to death but I just like what you said. Some of it comes down to this: some of us have spent our whole lives preparing for a child and have a REALLY good idea of how we will parent. Having tried out pretty much everything (including cloth diapering and baby wearing) on "other peoples kids" I KNOW how I will parent and actually have a good practical knowledge. I know you make adjustment and you discard what does not work for YOUR child but I KNOW how to be a parent, we are just waiting on the chance to "prove it"! :D

That's really harsh. If women are on MDC who are not yet mothers, they are likely trying to conceive and having difficulty with it. EarthmamatoBe has stated in this thread she has carried no child to term, meaning she's had miscarriages. You may not know what it's like to deal with infertility and may not realize how mean-spirited your above quote sounds.
Anyway, harsh judgments aren't too fun no matter who they come from, why pick on those whose hearts are aching to become mothers?


Thank You :hug

I hate long car rides with babies/toddlers too.. I feel ya on this one.

That said, I must answer the question at hand with a resounding "Yes!"

I love the AMAZING bits of wisdom I get from my sister about my sons. She has no kids of her own, but taught art in an all-boys school for 10 years. She just *gets* them--their impulsivity, need to explore everything, etc. I think not being in the thick of parenting actually gives her perspective that I sometimes lack.

Oh man, I feel you! When ds was about 15 mo. my dad threw a gigantic fit that we were not going to drive 6 hrs. one way to spend the holiday weekend with him and the rest of the family. Ds hated his carseat with a passion back then and was in general, beside himself with getting his molars. It would have been dreadful. My dad told me it would be fine, he would scream himself to sleep, and he needed to learn that since I had to learn that as a child too. I set some very distinct boundaries then and haven't heard a negative word or know it all type of comment since.

The bottom line was he was desperate for me to be with the family and could not fathom a more mature way to handle his disappointment. My younger sister and a good friend have both done basically the same thing to me, even saying "people do it all the time with kids", when asking me to travel very long distances to see them, ds in tow. They just do not have another way to express their disappointment is how I see it. I agree with the pp who said send him a nice bottle of wine or something with a note about taking them out next time. Good luck!!! Mary

It's okay Mama! Debate is good for you! Your brother is being insensitive although he probably doesn't know better. I would suspect he just wants you there and did not choose his words carefully AND since you are his Sis he is probably used to saying whatever pops into his head (my BIL is like this since I've known him since he was 3).

Tell him you are sorry but your "comfort zone" is not the one you are concerned with it's your child's.

Sorry I hijacked your thread!:o


No need to apologize! You have every right to defend your opinion. No one is flaming you, just trying to make a point, I'm glad everything is sorted out.:love

I do know that my brother just wants me there. I tried to explain that I really do want to go. It's just that I can't. There's a big difference, I didn't want him to take it the wrong way.
As far as his 'parenting' advice..........if he had said, "Do you think she would like to borrow our DVD player for the car?", or would it help if someone would come with you, like blah blah?" it would be different, he was just being mean, and belittling my daughter's feeling , which was not appreciated.:angry

I didn't mean to start a heated debate. I do think that there are folks out there that definitely know a thing or two about parenting.:wink

My brother is farthest from that group however. I should clarify, that the trip is 2-3 hours each way, so 5-6 hours total. He also lives here, by me, it's just his wedding that's in a different state.

I just can't get his comments out of my head.


It sounds to me like he's expressing his hurt that you won't be attending an important life event for him in a way that is not as vulnerable for him. I'm sure you must be sorry to miss such a big day. Are you also not able to attend his wedding?

My brothers exgf once told me I should start pumping milk and put it in a cup so ds wouldnt be so attatched to me.

I was like... thats the point!

Thankfully she is gone and my brother totally gets the AP approach now.

I cancelled a trip to go see my sister 2.5 hours away for the same reason when he was 6 months old.

Dont feel bad for putting you child's comforts first right now.

When my dd was a toddler, bedtime was really rough for us for a while. I remember a friend saying, "Why don't you just close the door and ignore her?" (Because my dh and I would take turns going in to check on her, respond to her calls, cries, etc.) The thing is, she didn't have any children, but I've received the same advice from parents.

I think unsolicited advice is just annoying, no matter who it comes from.

I think unsolicited advice is just annoying, no matter who it comes from.

That. I have a lot of issues around unsolicited advice in general. I have trouble being polite when it is offered no matter who it comes from.

When my dd was a toddler, bedtime was really rough for us for a while. I remember a friend saying, "Why don't you just close the door and ignore her?" (Because my dh and I would take turns going in to check on her, respond to her calls, cries, etc.) The thing is, she didn't have any children, but I've received the same advice from parents.

I think unsolicited advice is just annoying, no matter who it comes from.When my Dd was a toddler, I was explaining to a hair stylist why I wanted easy hair, had no desire to spend my free time styling my hair.

She said I should lock my dd out of the bathroom while I'm styling my hair.

When I asked if that's what she would do, she said that's what she did with her puppy.

Along those lines, I guess I could have locked my Dd in a kennel.

before I had a baby everyone was always "wait until you have him, you wont feel that way" or "you'll see" or "when its yours its different" but I really find it to be what I expected. What did I expect? to be up all night, to not have time to myself, to have to learn to do things with one hand, to have sore cracked nipples, to have to change my clothes a hundred times a day, to be pooped on, peed on, puked on, to have to listen to him cry and cry sometimes and not be able to do anything to stop it.... and I am loving all of it.

I agree, to a point. I nannied and did daycare and child care for years before becoming a mother (we even had a functioning daycare to work in at our high school). So I'd been studying child development and caring for children from newborn to school age in a variety of settings, and found AP while I was pregnant, though I was always a responsive/gentle caregiver anyways. So I had it all planned out.

Then I had a child with special needs ;) A part of me thought "a typical baby would have been just too easy, that's why I got this one!" I'd stayed up at night with twins, taken care of 13 children from 6 months to 2.5 with only one other person full time, nannied infants and toddlers in their home, etc. But nothing truly prepared me for parenthood. Experience helps, but it's not everything. And I don't think it's the rage that makes it different, I think it's the love. I loved those kids, don't get me wrong, but the every single minute, 24/7 unconditional love I feel for DD is what colors every aspect of the choices I make. Unfortunately, not every parent feels that way, and many, many parents give horrible advice, just as much if not more than non-parents. And worse, they're given credibility based on how many children they've raised, even if the results of their parenting have been awful! Just popping a baby out doesn't impart wisdom, and not technically being a parent doesn't preclude it.

I dont' know if I'm making sense. My parent self was up until 4 am with a coughing toddler! ugghhh

I've been taking care of other people's children my whole life.
I wanted to be a midwife from the age of seventeen, when I attended my first homebirth. I wanted five babies or more .... however, I'm infertile. We are several thousand dollars and a year into a procedure that may or may not work. I might never be a mama, but I 'parent' all the time.

This thread hurts. But I get where people are coming from.

I used to work as a child advocate at a shelter for women and their children fleeing violence and abuse. Part of my job was to give feedback when I observed certain behaviours, such as mama hitting her child, or neglecting the basics such as changing a soaking diaper, or offering food.

Often these mamas were distraught and distressed, having fled their homes in the middle of the night with only the clothes on their backs and their babies on their hips. However, certain behaviours are not okay. So it was up to me to approach them about it and offer solutions and alternatives.

It often went like this:

ME: Your LO has been crying for about half an hour now ... can I give you a hand to change her diaper or warm up a bottle?

MAMA: I don't need your help, thank you very much.

ME: I'm here to help. It's my job. And LO sounds like she needs some attention. If you can't do that right this minute, I can.

MAMA: Who the #%$@ are you to tell me how to look after my kid? Are you a mom? Do you have kids?

ME: No, I'm not a mother. I don't have any children of my own.

MAMA: Then stay the hell out of my business. You have no idea what my life is like.

ME: True. But while I might not be a parent, but I have been parented by a mom in a similar situation to you. I know things are hard right now, but certain things need to be done to lessen the impact of this experience on your baby. She needs a clean diaper and she needs to be fed. I can help you with that, or you can do it yourself.

And on and on ... my point is, we have all been parented. That counts. And so does almost three decades of taking care of children. Let's be fair.

I do know that my brother just wants me there. I tried to explain that I really do want to go. It's just that I can't. There's a big difference, I didn't want him to take it the wrong way.
As far as his 'parenting' advice..........if he had said, "Do you think she would like to borrow our DVD player for the car?", or would it help if someone would come with you, like blah blah?" it would be different, he was just being mean, and belittling my daughter's feeling , which was not appreciated.:angry

Yes, my dad/sister/friend all did the same thing. Belittled ds and his feelings. I was extremely hurt/pissed and only came to the conclusion he was too immature/upset to express disappointment after a couple weeks. I'm sorry you're going through this! Good luck with it all.

[/B]

I have to respectfully disagree that not being a parent means you know NOTHING about parenting. I have no carried a child to term but I have been a nanny for 20 years, have a degree in ECE and extensive training, have taught parenting classes, have at various times taken custody of THREE different children of friends, am a GAL (guardian ad litem), care for at least 2 babies daily (who wear CD's in MY house). I may not have given birth (therefore not a parent) but I know a LOT more than many of the parents I know. Many of them regularly ask ME for advice. Fortunately they don't think I'm totally ignorant just because I have not given birth.

I couldn't agree with you more...

Some of us "non-parents" are more knowledgeable and experienced than those that have their own...

Sad that those that are, what they deem, "Real Parents", dismiss us in one fell swoop...some of them could learn a lot from us.

That's really harsh. If women are on MDC who are not yet mothers, they are likely trying to conceive and having difficulty with it. EarthmamatoBe has stated in this thread she has carried no child to term, meaning she's had miscarriages. You may not know what it's like to deal with infertility and may not realize how mean-spirited your above quote sounds.
Anyway, harsh judgments aren't too fun no matter who they come from, why pick on those whose hearts are aching to become mothers?

Thank you.

I don't think he was really give you parenting advice. To me this is one of those the-wedding-is-all-about-me thing.

When my Dd was a toddler, I was explaining to a hair stylist why I wanted easy hair, had no desire to spend my free time styling my hair.

She said I should lock my dd out of the bathroom while I'm styling my hair.

When I asked if that's what she would do, she said that's what she did with her puppy.

Along those lines, I guess I could have locked my Dd in a kennel.

:duh:bigeyes:foot

Most of the REALLY bad advice I have personally gotten has been from parents. But I understand where the OP is coming from. I have a friend that seems to get all sorts of HORRIBLE ubsolicted parenting advice from people without kids that don't seem to have a CLUE about parenting.

I think the real sentiment in this thread is that it's frustrating to get advice from someone who is clueless about parenting, whether or not they have children of their own.

I will agree though, with a pp who said something to the effect of non-parents not having ever felt "the rage" or whatever (too lazy to find it and quote...)
If you have cared for children for months on end as if you were the parent I think that counts like being a parent as far as understanding what it is like.

But then there are people who say things like "I used to babysit all the time when I was a teenager so I know exactly what babies are like" that can be really judgmental and that gets on my nerves. Because there are a lot of people running around insisting they know what it is like to be a parent yet they really don't have any idea...

And there are people without children who have waited so very long to be parents that they know more than most people that I know who do have children.

Bad parenting advice seems to come from all directions, but it is most annoying when it comes from people who know NOTHING about kids/babies.


:hug and :goodvibes:
to you, EarthMamaToBe
It sounds like you have been through alot and I really hope you have your child soon.



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Umm, get off your keyboard and become a parent and be humbled by it. Then frankly, I am more willing to feel compassion for your successes and your sorrows.

You know what is humbling? To take a child into your home and care for her and have her calling you Mama and your DH Da and then to have her carried crying and screaming for you out the door and placed into the arms of a man who has never even laid eyes on her or even inquired about her just because it was his sperm that made her. THAT is humbling.

(Not picking on you BTW Allison :wink just wanted to make a point)

I think the real sentiment in this thread is that it's frustrating to get advice from someone who is clueless about parenting, whether or not they have children of their own.

Bad parenting advice seems to come from all directions, but it is most annoying when it comes from people who know NOTHING about kids/babies.


:hug and :goodvibes:
to you, EarthMamaToBe
It sounds like you have been through alot and I really hope you have your child soon.



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DING DING You get a cookie! I think you hit the nail on the head! THAT is the problem, it has nothing to do with whether someone is a parent just whether they give decent advice!

And thank you for your kind words and good vibes! 2WW right now so, keeping fingers crossed! :treehugger:

You can take this further, y'know. Getting advice from a parent of a 15mo cherub on what to do with a school-aged-child's learning disability. Getting advice from a parent of 1 when the question is how to manage the needs of many. Getting advice on how to help a child get to sleep or eat that has a special needs from someone who has no relation to a special needs child (or adult for that matter).

Advice isn't gospel. It is words. Most people "give" advice with the intention of helping. Rarely is meant in a mean-spirited way. Amazingly, some people have foresight into certain issues or ideas based on their own backgrounds that can really illuminate a situation. Often they aren't supposed to be the experts. They just see something in a special way to help you learn. Should that not be the case, say "thanks" and move along.

DING DING You get a cookie! I think you hit the nail on the head! THAT is the problem, it has nothing to do with whether someone is a parent just whether they give decent advice!


I think it has to do more with the judgment.

When someone gives me unsolicited advice, there is an implication that *I need help* - that I am not doing something well enough.

Even when true, this can sting, especially related to certain topics I feel sensitive about.

Little comments like "step out of your comfort zone", as the OP stated, ARE a judgment. It means "You are are coddling your child, you need to stop".

A friend of mine, noticing that we were having trouble with our (then) 2 year old with something (I cannot remember what), said "oh, you should just x,y,z".

I stopped, looked at her for a long moment, and said "It really irritates me when someone assumes that I have not done research, debated different options with dh, and even already tried a few different approaches to solve this problem. It sort of implies that we are ignorant or neglectful."

She got embarrassed and apologized.

A friend of mine, noticing that we were having trouble with our (then) 2 year old with something (I cannot remember what), said "oh, you should just x,y,z".

I stopped, looked at her for a long moment, and said "It really irritates me when someone assumes that I have not done research, debated different options with dh, and even already tried a few different approaches to solve this problem. It sort of implies that we are ignorant or neglectful."

She got embarrassed and apologized.

Oh awesome. I'm so glad I am not the only one who does this. :)

My friend was that way when dd was born. Would say stuff like "when I have a kid I will for sure let them cry it out" and "just cause I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't know anything about being a parent" Ummmm... yes actually it does mean you know nothing

I have to respectfully disagree that not being a parent means you know NOTHING about parenting. I have no carried a child to term but I have been a nanny for 20 years, have a degree in ECE and extensive training, have taught parenting classes, have at various times taken custody of THREE different children of friends, am a GAL (guardian ad litem), care for at least 2 babies daily (who wear CD's in MY house). I may not have given birth (therefore not a parent) but I know a LOT more than many of the parents I know. Many of them regularly ask ME for advice. Fortunately they don't think I'm totally ignorant just because I have not given birth

You are right Earthmamatobe. My original quote was way to generalized when I said "you don't know anything (cause you're not a parent)" What drove me crazy about this friend was that SHE really didn't know anything and she insisted on undermining my parenting skills. I do feel that you're situation is different as you have cared for children as if they were your own. Most non-parents haven't and I really feel that people need to EXPERIENCE the practical side of parenting theory in order to really get it. I base this on my own experience in which, looking back, I truly knew nothing about parenting before experiencing the strong emotions that came with my first.

I totally agree! NOBODY wants advice they did not ask for.

I think it has to do more with the judgment.

When someone gives me unsolicited advice, there is an implication that *I need help* - that I am not doing something well enough.

Even when true, this can sting, especially related to certain topics I feel sensitive about.

Little comments like "step out of your comfort zone", as the OP stated, ARE a judgment. It means "You are are coddling your child, you need to stop".

A friend of mine, noticing that we were having trouble with our (then) 2 year old with something (I cannot remember what), said "oh, you should just x,y,z".

I stopped, looked at her for a long moment, and said "It really irritates me when someone assumes that I have not done research, debated different options with dh, and even already tried a few different approaches to solve this problem. It sort of implies that we are ignorant or neglectful."

She got embarrassed and apologized.

Thanks!:love I agree that taking care of children and being a parent are two different things but the term parent can mean different things too. And unfortunately for some people (nobody here, just some ppl I know) BECOMING a parent doesn't guarantee they will figure it out either.

I'm sorry if my posts seemed defensive and harsh but...well I am defensive about that kind of thing. I appreciate you clarifying!


You are right Earthmamatobe. My original quote was way to generalized when I said "you don't know anything (cause you're not a parent)" What drove me crazy about this friend was that SHE really didn't know anything and she insisted on undermining my parenting skills. I do feel that you're situation is different as you have cared for children as if they were your own. Most non-parents haven't and I really feel that people need to EXPERIENCE the practical side of parenting theory in order to really get it. I base this on my own experience in which, looking back, I truly knew nothing about parenting before experiencing the strong emotions that came with my first.

You know, I'd like to soften my post about non-parents talking smack. I've gotten pretty bad parenting advice, upon reflection, from other parents.

I guess it doesn't matter who gives the advice or suggestions as long as the advice giver takes the time to understand the mama/dh/dc family dynamics well enough to empathize with the situation. IME, many advice givers don't take the time to do this and come from a stance of "this worked for my dc's (or someone else's dc's) so it should for yours, too." Of course, these are the experiences that stand out in my mind because they're so horrible.

I'm sure that there are plenty of people, with or without children, that are able to provide excellent advice. I know that I've received excellent advice from MDC, and none of these mamas has ever met me or my dc's IRL.

I stopped, looked at her for a long moment, and said "It really irritates me when someone assumes that I have not done research, debated different options with dh, and even already tried a few different approaches to solve this problem. It sort of implies that we are ignorant or neglectful."
Yes - the stinging implicit judgment makes me initially resentful - even if, upon further reflection, the advice is good. I've said this kind of thing quoted above numerous times. For two people in my family with wayyy more advice than I want (who *are* both mothers - just not exactly the kind I want to be) I now just shorten this type of response to "Give me a little credit. Do you really think we haven't tried/thought of that?" If the person giving advice has not experienced parenting firsthand, it adds fuel to my resentfulness - even if there is a grain of truth to what they have said.

I now just shorten this type of response to "Give me a little credit. Do you really think we haven't tried/thought of that?"

heh, I recently changed it into "been there, done that, didn't work, let's move on..."

Actually, one of my pet peeves is when someone comes to MY house, and interacts with MY kids, and proceeds to try to parent my kids, IN FRONT OF ME.

now, don't get me wrong, I want my friends to back up house rules and be an extra set of eyes/hands. And that not everyone has the same rules or expectations for kids, so they may guess wrong in terms of what rules to enforce, etc.

But when someone proceeds to tell my child that they'd better do X (like clean up a mess or say sorry or something) when I am standing *right there* and I clearly saw the "infraction" the person is trying to correct, I am just stunned by the audacity.

Because, to me, the implication is "I can parent your child better than you can, because clearly you aren't doing it to my satisfaction."

</vent>

Yes - the stinging implicit judgment makes me initially resentful - even if, upon further reflection, the advice is good. I've said this kind of thing quoted above numerous times. For two people in my family with wayyy more advice than I want (who *are* both mothers - just not exactly the kind I want to be) I now just shorten this type of response to "Give me a little credit. Do you really think we haven't tried/thought of that?" If the person giving advice has not experienced parenting firsthand, it adds fuel to my resentfulness - even if there is a grain of truth to what they have said.

That is how I feel too!!!

I LOVE your response. I will have to use that (if you don't mind) :)

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I feel ya earthmama.... before I had a baby everyone was always "wait until you have him, you wont feel that way" or "you'll see" or "when its yours its different" but I really find it to be what I expected. What did I expect? to be up all night, to not have time to myself, to have to learn to do things with one hand, to have sore cracked nipples, to have to change my clothes a hundred times a day, to be pooped on, peed on, puked on, to have to listen to him cry and cry sometimes and not be able to do anything to stop it.... and I am loving all of it. Now that he's here, I get the same type of comments, but now they have turned to "you must have an easy baby" or "is he colicky or high needs?" or "wait until he starts crawling" bla bla bla. sometimes you know what to expect and sometimes you don't. the people who dont tend to assume that everyone must have felt how they did for some reason.
Yes, yes, yes. I was here for a couple years before having a baby, and so I did, in fact, get about what I was expecting as a parent, although (and I expected this) I couldn't really know what exactly it was going to be like because no one in the world had ever had MY baby before.

But yes, it is possible to not yet be a parent and to have a pretty good idea about parenting -- if part of what one knows is that one can never truly know what it's like for anyone else, whether or not one also happens to have a child.

It's really just clueless, unsolicited, one-size-fits-all advice that bothers, whether it comes from another parent or not.

That is how I feel too!!!

I LOVE your response. I will have to use that (if you don't mind) :)

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Have at it!!!

I'm probably in the minority here, but unsolicited advice bothers me more from people who ARE parents themselves. I guess I figure, you had X number of children and parented them - that was your turn. Now this is my child and it is MY turn. So be quiet...LOL ;)

I cannot stand parenting advice from those who are not in the trenches with my particular child so I feel ya. Something about parenthood that seems to make your life so much more of a spectator sport, open to commentary from the sidelines.

But, I think I must be missing a step. Are you planning to miss your brother's wedding (a wedding that I presume you can afford getting to) solely because it is 2-3 hours away and your child hates the car? If you are planning to attend the wedding but just can't get to the rehearsal I think that is a bit self centered on your brother's side. But, if you are actually taking a miss on his wedding I can say that I would be pretty upset also in his shoes. That seems aggressively child-centered at the expense of everyone else to me. As someone whose youngest child loathed the car until recently (screamed her head off unless she was asleep and still cries after an hour of drivetime) I can honestly say there is no way I would skip a sibling's wedding over it. I would plan to take twice as long to travel the distance; I would plan to stop every 30-45 minutes; I would plan to bring snacks and toys, and sing songs, and show videos, and all the other dances we do while our kids are upset. Heck, I would plan on going on my own while my partner stayed behind with my children if it was completely necessary. But come hell or high water I would be there for my brother/sister on his/her wedding day, one of the most important days of his/her life and a day where he/she should be surrounded by loving family.

Hopefully, I am just misreading and this is all about the rehearsal dinner and you already have a great game plan in action for attending the wedding! And hopefully you have a fantastic time!

i just wanted to chim in and say that just because someone's (parent or non-parent) advice is something that you don't agree with, it doesn't mean they know NOTHING. maybe they just don't know anything about your particular parenting style. doesn't mean they are necessarily WRONG, just DIFFERENT.

i know that before i had my son, i got a lot of the "oh you just wait till you have kids" comments. and i found them rather condescending. some of my ideas have adjusted regarding my parenting choices, but the fundamentals that i knew i would follow have not changed.

But, I think I must be missing a step. Are you planning to miss your brother's wedding (a wedding that I presume you can afford getting to) solely because it is 2-3 hours away and your child hates the car? If you are planning to attend the wedding but just can't get to the rehearsal I think that is a bit self centered on your brother's side. But, if you are actually taking a miss on his wedding I can say that I would be pretty upset also in his shoes.

I was wondering the same thing. A couple of people commented on him being self-centered and thinking the day was all about his needs, which really it is about the bride and groom. But I was wondering if the child can't make it to the rehearsal, how are they going to the wedding? Two-three hours isn't far, so I don't quite understand the major imposition. DD doesn't like the car, but there's not a chance I'd miss my brother or sister's wedding over a 2-hour car ride.

I am attending the wedding, of course. Dh is coming with me. It's the trip alone that I don't want to do.

I am attending the wedding, of course. Dh is coming with me. It's the trip alone that I don't want to do.

Well, that makes total and complete sense. Hopefully he chills out and hopefully you all have a great time at the wedding!

Dh and I have very few friends who are parents. So, we get lots of advice from bachelors about how to parent our dd. :lol Sometimes they have good insight. Most of the time, they're just clueless, but if we can explain a parenting preference in biological/instinct terms, they tend to change their minds and agree. It's led to some amusing conversations.

I have to say that the advice that gets me are the people who have NO experience with children. For example my brother (who has held an infant maybe 5 times his entire life) told me that breastfeeding would ruin my marriage..
The advice from other parents can be just as bad as well. My father called me up the night I was coming home from the hospital after having my DD (DD was 2 days old) and told me to drive up and see him that weekend. When I said I wouldn't he started getting mean and cursing at me about how its not hard to have a baby and its nothing to drive two hours after all my ILs were able to see the baby the next week. My MIL flew from Phili to California and rented a car to come down and help me set up the nursury and stock up some meals.
I think some people are just self centered and you just ignore them..

Slightly off topic: EarthMamaToBe :hug:dust I hope you get some really good news at the end of the month. Its hard to want and see everyone else having and not having one of your own.