Dh has changed jobs to get better health benefits (namely ANY) but it has meant a smaller paycheck making us eligible for wic. I went to the first appt a couple months ago and it was awful. I am tandem nursing a 2 1/2 year old and an 11 month old. When we met with the nutritionist she looked at the weight of my dd (95th percentile) and informed me that she was obese and that I shouldn't be giving her junk food andshould try to "get her" to eat vegetables. I told her that we are vegetarian and that she gets absolutely no junkfood or fast food and asked her to look at my skinny little daughter (who was standing right next to me, but who she hadn't even glanced at yet) She glanced up and back down with no comment. I asked her what percentile she was for height, so she checked and she's 98th percentile for height. DUH!!! So then she told me how much formula I'd be getting. By this time I was getting really annoyed and asked her if she needed a couple of minutes to read over our paperwork because it would tell her that I am nursing and we don't need formula. She proceeds to tell me "that's okay it's just in case you don't have enough" AAAAAAAARGH!! I told her that since I've been nursing non stop for 2 1/2 years now and nursing 2 for the last year with no problems I didnt anticipate suddenly having not enough milk. I also asked her why she would even suggest such a thing if wic is supposed to support breast feeding and told her that if I were a new mom or not confident that that comment could absolutely sabotage the succes of a nursing relationship. And I asked her if I were mistaken in thinking that nursing moms could get carrots, cheese and tuna. She looked at me like I had 3 heads and said "You want that?" I said "of course! Why would I want formula instead?! I make all the milk they need." So finally I got out with the coupons.

So yesterday I had to go back because my little one is turning a year and needed to be re-evaluated. It was the same dietician and this time she informed me that saffron is a year old so I would be done nursing now. I said no-- she is a year old so we will no longer be getting the nursing vouchers. She will continue to nurse. She then proceeds to tell me that she NEEDS to wean because she's a year old and she will be getting cow's milk instead. I was seeing red and unable to believe my ears at this point. But I am very good at not loosing my temper and just getting very clear and precise so I told her again that Saffron wouldn't be weaning any time soon because she was still very invested in nursing and I had no problems letting her decide when the nursing relationship was over and that the health benefits of nursing continue for the baby and the mom for as long as you are nursing. She looked at me like I had 3 heads again. So I said "remember Im still nursing my older daughter as well"

Both times I was there the waiting room was packed and there wasn't a single mom without formula in a bottle for their babe. This last time there was a girl and her boyfriend there who were expecting and the girl came out and said "They said we could have some formula in case nusing doesn't work out for us. Maybe we should take it" I asked the girl if she wanted to nurse and she said she did. So I told her not to take the formula-- to go to a few lll meetings before the baby came and gave her the times and locations of a few and told her to take full advantage of any lactation consultant visits at home she could get---just to reassure her that everything is ok and that the baby is getting enough because otherwise its tempting to think the baby needs the formula even when everything is going perfectly. I also made a point to conspicuously nip both times I was there. The first time one of the workers came out and told me I could go into a different room---basically asking me to, but I said I was fine.

This whole experience has just disgusted me and I feel like I should do something, but at this point I'mjust debating if I can even hack going back there again. sorry this is so long

:splat :splat :splat

ARGHHHHH!!!! I commend you on keeping your temper. I think I would have lost it!! My suggestion would be to WRITE A LETTER! Make it a good one, LOL, citing the benefits of nursing & your experience, etc. Then, send it to the Director of WIC, AND cc it to the City Health Director, the Mayor/town council, the Govenor, etc. WIC is funded by state & federal money, and these people respond to $$. By encouraging women NOT to nurse think of all the $$ that's going down the tubes. (in the form of formula, sick kids, etc etc). Change only happens when people make a fuss.

Good luck!!
Amy

That is utterly disgusting. :cuss :Puke And to think that all of us are paying for their formula. :splat You should have told that woman to kiss your :moon :LOL

I would make a complaint to whoever runs WIC. Something needs to change. I've heard so many stories like yours.

I guess the one I used to go to wasn't all that bad. They even gave me a voucher for a free nursing bra.

I don't think WIC should cover formula without there being a true medical need for it.

Do you need us to write letters? :D

On, and contrats on dh getting the new job!! Heath insurance is a must these days.

Originally posted by ctdoula
WIC is funded by state & federal money, and these people respond to $$. By encouraging women NOT to nurse think of all the $$ that's going down the tubes. (in the form of formula, sick kids, etc etc).

$$ is exactly why WIC pushes the formula on people. The more they spend the more they get to spend next time so they encourage you to buy all the things they give you.

:hug

WIC is like that. Last time I went (we were there for our 6m 'recertification' visit) the nutritionist gave me all kinds of grief about dd being in the 9th weight percentile for her height (she's 95th percentile for height, 50th for weight overall; dp is 6'6" tall, so it's no mystery to us where she gets her long lean build :rolleyes: ), dd's iron being .02 below their arbitrary standard, and the fact that she doesn't eat a lot of solids yet.

All of this without even asking to see my daughter, who was with dp in the waiting room! :confused:

She then gave me a rundown of everything I 'should' be feeding dd on a daily basis. Yeah, right! As far as my daughter is concerned, food is for playing with :LOL She'd be in the high chair all day long if I tried to make her eat all that stuff.

At the end she asked me how long I planned to breastfeed. I told her I planned to let dd self-wean, and she replied with, 'Soooo, do you think you might nurse as long as, say, one year?' :rolleyes:

Try not to let em get to ya. They are just gov't employees who are most likely required to parrot the bad information they've been given. It stinks that they are a primary source of help and info for so many low-income families :( but at least we have MDC! :love

WIC really varies, which it shouldn't. In MA, I have been involved with 2 WIC offices as a lay bf support person. One in rural central MA, one in a city. Both were bf supportive. The rural one had 2 IBCLCs on staff (one was a LLL Leader from my group, 15 yrs exp), and tons of bf posters plastered all over the walls, and had made great improvements in bfing rates. We even held our LLL mtgs there for a yr or 2. The other one was supportive too, I once went to a bf party there they had during World Bfing Week in August. They had guest speakers and the bf friendly vibes were strong.

Your office needs some lactation training. Maybe LLL could do an in-service? Write your letter and make some suggestions! Good luck!

Yikes! Sorry you had such a bad experiance!

I've gone to 2 different WIC offices in two different states and luckily both of them were supportive of bfing, and encourage it. The one I go to now has bfing support groups as well. My complaint about the one we go to currently is you have to wait forever to be seen! They also sometimes 'talk down' to you ... and it's like, lady, I probably know just as much if not more than you about feeding my children! Anyways...

wic here (at least in 1992) was totally opposite

they almost forced you to breastfeed. i would get lectured for not breastfeeding every single visit. i felt they were being stingy with formula. they gave me NONE until after the birth (so we had to buy a case) and they never gave me enough to make it to the next month without buying some.,.....

im sorry you had bad experiece though. the lady was pretty out of line.

i guess they are all different. move here to midewestern IL and you'll not have to deal with that.

here is totall opposite.

Gee what a stupid nutritionist. Sounds like you're doing a great job in the waiting room though. I hope you can stand going back there, it's great you're setting such a good example for those other women.

Originally posted by sleepies
i felt they were being stingy with formula. they gave me NONE until after the birth

As they should be. They shouldn't give it at all without true medical need. JMO But too many WIC offices aren't like that. Too many have uneducated people working for them that think they know more than the people on WIC and they can be rude and nasty towards breastfeeding mom, EBF especially. And God help you if you don't vaccinate. They HATE that. :LOL

I'm a breastfeeding counselor for WIC here in MD. We don't give any formula before a baby is born, regardless of what mom has decided in regard to feeding. It usually takes a couple weeks to get an appointment, so if you choose to formula feed here, you will have to buy it in the beginning. We also don't cover all the formula, after your baby hits about 10 lbs, you have to buy like 1/3 of it. But then, WIC is a supplemental food program.

sassitap,

I'm sorry your "nutritionist" was like that. I don't know what your state is like, but here in MD the staff only gets one day of breastfeeding training and the training isn't impressive. So there is a big lack of education.

Originally posted by sassitap
Why would I want formula instead?! I make all the milk they need."


"why dear, :jawbecause it is free, and it is so much more scientific than breastmilk. besides, don't you want some independance???:rolleyes: and don't forget, you simply can't let them wean themselves, they'll have to stay in-state for college ":lol:

sorry yoiur "nutritionist" was so stupid.

Your post has upset me for the night so I can just imagine how you felt in having to deal with those people. Wic is great for ffeeders but they just don't seem to hold up that good for nursing moms. I'm not saying that they are all bad when it comes to nursing moms, I know I've heard a few success stories but I think the whole operation needs a bit of an overhaul.

Ugh! I'm lucky that our wic office is very pro breastfeeding (lots of posters!). When I called to make an apt., they asked if it was for just ds or for me too; I asked if I was eligible since ds2 was nursing at 14 months; she said, "Sorry, no, nursing moms only get benefits until 12 months, but great job nursing!" So there are some good ones!

Kristi

I am so sorry for your experience! But I am more sorry about the affect this will have on moms not as educated, committed, or informed as you.

My first experience with WIC was like this -- I attended really stupid classes where I sat thinking -- how does this apply to me? At that time I did not know you are not required to attend the classes to get your vouchers! They cannot make you! But here is the kicker: I did not get put into any special breastfeeding group until my baby was 8 months old -- 8 MONTHS OLD!!! How many WIC moms are still breastfeeding at 8 months?!!? And then, I had the oldest nursling -- all the women looked at me like I was committing child abuse.

So, they were dumb, uninformed, overcroweded, but I continued to go.

Then we moved. When we moved to Chico I looked for LLL. I was told it was not active, but that there were weekly support meetings for breastfeeding moms at the WIC office -- run by the WIC IBCLC! It was great. From the first day everything was great. This is a smaller office, and there are nothing but breastfeeding posters everywhere. They even sponsered a breastfeeding calender last year to be given out instead of the regular nation-wide WIC calender (I was Miss February, along with my tandem nursers at the time -- I bet nothing like that has ever been printed for WIC recipients before!).

After we moved from my hometown, where WIC DIDN"T work wonders, my old LLL Leader sat for exam to get her IBCLC. She passed, and lo and behold, that WIC office hired her -- she is the first IBCLC they have ever had on staff! And they service a huge amount of people!

But here, WIC totally works in conjunction with other breastfeeding support groups and services -- LLL is back, and WIC keeps our flyers right on the front counter. In fact, I have called the WIC IBCLC a couple of times when a mom turned out to be out of my scope, yet she needed help immediately.

Our community is a bit different, though. We are all on our county's breastfeeding coalition, so we know each other and work together on different community projects.

Please, please, please take the time to write a letter to the director of your WIC office, but also to this address: wichq-web@fns.usda.gov And here is another link that might help: http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/

Boy, are they in need of a peer counseling program or what?! If you do attend your local LLL, bring it up with your leaders and see if they can suggest anything for the office -- training, peer counseling, etc. Something needs to change!

Good for you sassitap, for tandeming, for trying to educate the ignorant, for setting a good example in the waiting room, for being strong in your convictions.

I'm so p*ssed that WIC gives away formula at OUR expense. The freakin' formula companies should have to supply it to WIC at THEIR expense, they're the ones who created the market for it. :angry

Wow I was really surprised to hear the troubles you had. At the wic office here, they really push women to BF- actually, thats the only reason I decided to give it a shot (and I'm soooo glad I did :D )
If you attend the BF class they offer you get a free admeda kit that comes with the hand pump and they rent out the machine part (I totally love the pump, its dual and works wonders for me to BF while I'm at work) The lactition ladies call you at 3 days, 3 wks, 3 mths, 6 mths, and a yr to check on you and see how things are going. They've always called me back within a day if I've left a msg for them, and when I couldn't make it to their office when I needed help, the lady came to my house! I honestly don't think I would have stuck with it if it wasn't for the support they offered! Even the nurses at the hospital were great about teaching me and DS about latching on.

They just made it such an easy choice for me, and I wish more wic offices would do that!

idsapmom: whaddaya mean the wic classes aren't required??? when i was preg and on wic, i missed a class and they said i HAD to take another one bcuz it was REQUIRED. or does it vary from state to state or something? i'm in missouri. where does it say that classes aren't required? my preg friend who hates the classes would love to hear this!

When we met with the nutritionist she looked at the weight of my dd (95th percentile) and informed me that she was obese

yet

She proceeds to tell me "that's okay it's just in case you don't have enough" AAAAAAAARGH!!

So how is it that your daughter's getting obese if you're not making enough milk? :scratch :confused:

Clearly this woman is not the brightest bulb and it's very scary that she's the WIC dietician giving advice to new moms. Sorry you have to go through this frustration to get help.

This is exactly why I refuse and my dh won't let me go to wic. I am pregnant and I have a two year old, we would def qualify. I just can't. I can't stand the stupidity, ignorance, the forced testing and all that goes with it. I can't stomach the dirty looks and comments I get about bf by the nutritionist. I also got an in depth evaluation about my last pregnancy due to me using a midwife. It makes me wanna puke!

Must have something to do with living in the great South.

Jenny

Originally posted by phathui5
IWe don't give any formula before a baby is born, regardless of what mom has decided in regard to feeding. It usually takes a couple weeks to get an appointment, so if you choose to formula feed here, you will have to buy it in the beginning.

I got a full two CASES of free formula plus the free "diaper bags" with samples from giving my name to the wrong people when I was pregnant with my first. (My younger babies were home births, and I deliberately avoided giving my name to anyone who might send me formula.) Anyway, I think most people could get through the first couple of weeks without "having to" buy any formula simply by filling out the formula companies' post cards in the OB's office &/or at the hospital. :(

I have to give the WIC office here a pat on the back. When I was preggo with my dd 9 years ago they were almost militant about breastfeeding. I didn't choose to do so then (very bad information) and was almost offended the way they pushed it on me. If only I'd have listened to them instead of my mother.....now, in another county, in the same state, this WIC office has been invaluable helping me to relactate. Even when I wasn't on WIC, they loaned me a pump. Now that I am on WIC, I use the pump unless there is someone of a greater need. Everyone there thinks that it is wonderful that Kaeleb is still nursing (even though only part time) at almost 9 months of age....now, when I mentioned the delayed vax schedule (not going to mention that we AREN'T getting anymore vaxes!) I got the standard "do you know what you are doing?" That lady really pissed me off. I calmly told her about the research I had done and she said "you read too much". Then when we began discussing my relactation, she asked why I started I told her about my research and said "See, you can NEVER read TOO much" as sweetly as I could and walked out!

Good for you for showering your intelligence onto ignorant people!

I attended really stupid classes where I sat thinking -- how does this apply to me? At that time I did not know you are not required to attend the classes to get your vouchers! They cannot make you!

Maybe not where you live, but here in MD; no class = no vouchers. If someone doesn't make the class, even by 5-10 min., they either have to wait for the next class that day, or, if they were scheduled for the last class of the day, the earliest they get vouchers is the next week. (My clinic has classes once a week)

Wow!

Thanks for all of the replies and support. It means so much to me and is comforting to hear that not all offices are as bad as this one. It gives me hope that things could get better. I'm definately going to write some letters----thanks for the links itsapsmom, and for the encouragement everyone. I've just recently moved down here and have been consistently suprised by how strange ap is to everyone down here. I hadn't seen a single other sling until I found the lll group. It makes me miss VT:( I'm so glad I can come here and remind myself that I'm really not a freak. When I've drafted a letter I'll post it here for you all to see. Thanks again!

:hug I'm sorry to hear the troubles they're putting you through! :(

I hate going myself, but some weeks we are really tight and just getting some milk and cheese helps. They give us heck that we don't drink milk :rolleyes: but they never mention eating more veggies and fruits etc. :bang Our appt after ds was born lasted 2 hours and I was so exhausted afterwards. They also gave us vouchers for baby cereal at 5mo (we are delaying solids).

My office is pro-bf'ing and the lactation consultant has called a few times to check up on us. She always asks the same questions and I give her the same answers. She finally noted that I nursed dd until 20mo so she said "I guess you know what you're doing, don't you? :thumb".

I've become quite jaded and realize everything boils down to cold, hard cash. :o

I have to say, our IBCLC gives, on the sly, indicators as to whether or not moms should do these things. She talks openly with the group (weekly breastfeeding support group) about how introducing iron which is not bioavailable can affect your baby's ability to absorb the iron in breastmilk. I think you get juice and cereal at 5 months? She does not say it, but her head indicates whether or not she thinks babies of this age should get both of those things. Her attitude is, get them and save them, or stop them. I did not give my sons cereal due to the iron conflicts; after a couple of months, I told them we did not want anymore.

:shake How sad that someone is such a position would be so unknowledgable... I feel lucky that the wic nurse I have talked to both times here in NW MN is so great. She even talked to me openly about being firm with hospital staff about no bottles and pacifiers. I'm worried about this if I have a hospital birth. A friend of mine had a crazy experience a year ago. And this nurse had the same expereince of no breastfeeding knowledge or support from the nurses with both her boys 13 and 15 years ago. opps... enough negative thoughts. :P

The wic nurse I talked to went on to bring the lactation consultant into the room so I could meet her. She asked if I would like to meet with her a couple times right before and after the baby is born. But both woman went on to say that while sometimes there is a difficulty, nursing is natural, and usually everything goes great...

It always saddens me to see people in positions to educate others, that don't have the knowledge to start with. Maybe your office is full of people that didn't breastfeed and therefor don't understand that end of it. But you'd think they'd still understand the nutrition end of it. :scratch Any knowledge you can bring to that place sounds much needed. Good luck!!

jennifer
mommy to :heartbeat baby on the way 5/26