first loss - grieving guinea pig babies

[Diana Korpi]

Hi. I am homeschooling and attachment parenting a spirited 7-year old who is intense and introverted (among other things). Last week we lost a litter of guinea pig babies - he had been extremely excited about the upcoming birth but afterward (they were stillborn) claims that he's not really sad, that it's not a big deal. (My daughter exhibited tears and wanted to talk about it right away - much the way I deal with grief). His behavior has deteriorated during the past week and I'm guessing that we need to help him deal with this loss. But since his way is so different from mine, I'm not quite sure how to help.

So far, I've let him know how I am feeling and what my process is, I've given him opportunities to share his feelings (which he doesn't want to do) and we made grave markers for the babies. (He tends to be much more physical than verbal so I thought an activity like this might help in some way.)

I'm looking for suggestions from those of you who may have had a similar experience with a child or who might respond to grief in the same way. I want to help him process this but don't want to make him feel that his way is the wrong way.

[happyday8598]

I am sorry that I can not offer you any suggestions, but I wanted to instead encourage you.

What you have done is so healthy, wonderful, and loving. I applaud you for that!

My advice would be to keep encouraging him genlty, not pushing and prodding (not that that's how you've acted! Don't read into that! :)) and listening to him wholeheartedly when he speaks up at all... Let him know that WHENEVER he needs to talk about ANY aspect of the death, you'll listen and help.

It's a tough thing for even adults to deal with... Life and Death.

You're handling this situation WONDERFULLY... My advice would be to continue on in this same way... Somepeople process things differently...

Loving, gentle thoughts,
Emily :)

[Celestial]

"How To Talk So Kids Will Listen, And Listen So Kids Will Talk" By Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish? Better yet, see if your library has the videos. I have found them very useful for getting my children to open up and talk about subjects.

[Sierra]

This must be hard. Death is difficult. How's it going? How has it been since you posted? I think this thread would fit perfectly in our new Grief and Loss forum (in Natural Family Living). Did you see it? Isn't it cool that we now have that forum!?! Anyway, would you mind if I moved this on over?

Thanks, Sierra

[Diana Korpi]

Thank you for your support and suggestions - and feel free to move this over to the Grief and Loss Forum. I have read "How to Talk..." - and all of their other books. I think they are terrific.

I think that making the grave markers helped somewhat. The reason I wrote this post is that I'm worried about his anger and how it's intensified. He gets frustrated more easily and his tantrums (read yelling, hiding, dumping markers on the floor) seem more frequent than usual.

We've also just had our first big snow and change of season is always difficult for him (new clothes, new routine etc.) And I know I am also more sensitive to his behavior right now because my Dad and I just had a long disagreement/discussion about how I'm raising Mckenzie. Dad believes M. is too shy, too enegetic and too clingy. I'm okay with our talk and gave Dad a copy of "Raising Your Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka ? but may be more sensitive to M's tantrums and anger because of that discussion.

I guess part of what I'm grappling with is M's "spiritedness". Right now I am wondering if he is acting out because of the death/change of season combination or if I'm missing something else or if I'm just not parenting him well in general - you know how it goes once you start questioning.

Yesterday he had friends sleep over and so spent the past 2 days excited and then playing, so no tantrums to speak of. We'll see what today brings with our "normal" schedule. Thanks again for the input.

[Celestial]

Not just for your son, but for you as well. Have you both considered keeping a journal? This is something my son and I are just starting (We homeschool too). The journal is PRIVATE. I don't read his, and he doesn't read mine, but if either of us wants to share, we can read it out loud. If writing is a source of frustration for your son, or his writing ability is not quite good enough for journal keeping yet, let his "journal" be a picture journal. Some days I suggest a topic to write about, and other days we just write about the things that are bothering us, or the things that have made us happy...

Maybe he needs to get his feelings off his chest, but he's not comfortable discussing it with you.

Another thought: Do you have rituals that stay the same no matter what season it is? Perhaps he really needs some?

Finally, have you addressed the conflict between you and your husband with your son? Just curious.
Good luck.

[Diana Korpi]

Thanks for the journal idea. That might work, although he get frustrated with his drawing AND his writing, so we'll have to do it at a time when he's in a good place.

And I guess I wasn't clear about the conflict which is between MY Dad (M.'s grampa) and me. My husband and I are on the same page with how we're parenting etc. And I have discussed it - in very basic terms - with M. How Grampa grew up with very different ideas about how kids should be treated, etc.

The idea of rituals is one that appeals to me a lot. However, my husband and I both work out of the home (sometimes with odd hours) and add that to homeschooling (and our personalities, too, I guess) and we end up with a fairly erratic schedule. Maybe I should make structure a priority right now - see if that helps M. feel right with the world. What sorts of rituals do you use throughout the year?

[Sierra]

Thanks for responding, Diana. Just gonna move it on over:). I'm so excited that forum has been added to our boards!

Sierra

[Ms. Mom]

Thanks for moving this over Sierra.

Diana, I think your son is greiving just like he needs to for him. You've done EVERYTHING to open the lines of communcation. He trusts that you're there for him when he needs to talk.

Greif is a very individual thing. Some people move through it quickly, others need to mull it over and move slowly. Either way, you're there and he knows it.

I would secound the journal. What a great way to keep him talking. Also, if he likes reading, mabye you could find a book on loss and see if he wants to relate some of what he's read.

Making the grave stones was a great idea. He was able to be involved with the process.

There are four main stages of greif:

1. Shock and numbness
2. Searching and yearning
3. Depression and loneliness
4. Acceptance

I feel that anger is someplace between 1&2. I know when my father died my son had a great deal of anger. It's hard to see him so anger, but thoes are his feelings and he needs to move through his grief in his own way.

Your in my thoughs.

[lisamarie]

Grief and Loss is so hard to deal with for adults, let alone for children. And it can be painful to watch our children grieve.

The only thing I wanted to add, in addition to Ms.Mom's wonderful and gentle response, was that you might want to get some books from the library for your ds. There are alot of wonderful children's books that deal with death and the emotions surrounding it. One I believe is called "When Dinosaurs Die". There is a portion of the book, where a pet dies. That might be helpful to the whole family.

My thoughts are with your family.

Warmly~

Lisa

[marymary]

Hi all, different loss, same behaviour. my 5 yr old ds has just lost his grandfather and his behaviour sounds exactly the same. I have gotten into a right old pickle trying to sort it all out with some really funny things happening. First he was ghoulish and wanted to see the place where he died, I mean the exact spot! Being at their house with all the women in pieces and the atmosphere of sudden death in the air, he lay on the carpet watching tv. "don't eat your chocolate on the new carpet darling, Grandad wouldn't like it' said my stpmm, 'he's not here he's dead!' he replied, 'but he's watching you' she persisted, 'you can't watch people if you're dead' he countered. Weeks into the aftermath he has stayed over there twice like he always used to, a little bit afraid of skeletons and coffins and the conflicting information from stpmm that 'he wasn't in the coffin , it was just an old coat!!!!' Don't ask!He knows he was buried in a coffin. We were in the car and I was trying to explain that our bodies are like vehicles that contain our souls/spirits and that we have to cast them off before we leave this earth, that's our job if you like. That there's nothing to be afraid of because although you can't touch or see them any more they are always there, all around us. If ever he wanted to talk to Grandad he could talk to him in his head and he'd be there for him. 'I haven't got a very good brain' he said sadly'I've got half a good brain and half a not good brain'. We then got into spirits being everywhere at once. Stpmm told them G had an invisibilty cloak on, 'like Harry Potter' they said! 'Grandad's at (Stpmm's)' he said, 'but he's also here' I said, 'what in this car!!' he couldn't believe it! When I picked him up from theirs this week, he asked if we missed him while he was away (2 days) 'of course' I said' did you miss us?''yes I missed you and dad and (bruv.)' 'and Grandad?' I chipped in - ' No, 'cos Grandad's here with us'.
Some of his friends have been profoundly affected by his loss, questioning their mother's for the first time,'am I going to die? are you going to die?' and getting quite upset. My son walks around like Shylock, shrugging his shoulders in the air saying' We're all going to die, I'm going to die, you're going to die, are you still sad?'. On his first visit my dear stpmm made a monumental effort not to be in floods of tears for the whole day, and he slipped his small hand into hers in the supermarket and said, 'let's put the basket back and go home, it's a really sad day'. She is rather freaked out by his attitude/knowledge, preferring him to be like a Shirley Temple fantasy child from the fifties or whenever. Even though he doesn't go to school the curriculuum for his age group is teaching about skeletons and the body now. We bought some books, one was rather coy and said simply 'one day his grandfather wasn't there anymore' and showed the boy staring out of a window alone. The Selfish Giant by Oscar Wilde is quite good, the giant dies and you see his body covered in blossoms under a tree in his garden, it's actually about Jesus so you might have issues with that, but the metaphor is the same. My boy gets very angry too and he's definitely swinging between anger and acceptance. His world's been rocked, but you can't keep it from them and I don't believe in not talking about it. It inevitably makes them feel bewildered and upset, the journal sounds like a brilliant idea, hope you come to a better place soon, you will, lots of love MM
ps excuse me for banging on, I didn't have much advice for you, but a big hug.

[marymary]

Hi Diana, how is your son coping? I've been thinking about the differences between losing a pet and losing a relative(!) I looked at some of the books and suggestions on one of the sites reommended and they looked really helpful. My son is up and down, hope you find something to help, much love M

[Diana Korpi]

hi, all. thank you for all the insightful comments and recommendations. We are hanging in there. since my last post we've been dealing with illness, holidays and a stressful visit from out-of-town relatives. AND we had to put my kitty friend of 17 years to sleep so now I'm right there with my son! As soon as the illness etc. are done we are heading out to the library to get some of those books. I think they would help us all. We are also seeking some outside help from Mary Sheedy Kurcinka ("Raising Your Spirited Child") because I'm at a place where I feel that I need some objective input and could use the help. Thanks again for all your wisdom and love. I'll update again as soon as we're all feeling better.
Diana

[lisamarie]

Thanks for letting us know. Sorry to hear about your cat and illnesses.

Thinking of You~

Lisa

[Celestial]

Diana,
I found this AWESOME site with information about guinea pigs on it. I thought that if you intended to try again with a guinea pig in the future, you might find this interesting.

http://cavyspirit.com/

I'm really very sorry to hear about your cat.

Hugs to all.